Knicks Icon Bill Bradley on Finals Fever

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1:00Welcome to The Beat, everyone. I'm Ari Melber, and it's Friday, and there's a lot of news, and we have a lot planned. Coming up, the famed activist, Aaron Brockovich, is here on the intersection between green activism and these AI tech giants. And by the end of the hour, Bill Bradley, the liberal icon and Knicks veteran, will join us to talk about the mood really sweeping New York and the nation as everyone watches these NBA finals. professionals he's here live but we begin with the trump doj making the kind of autocratic claims that have to be taken seriously when it's not just donald trump musing between dozing off at meetings but actually your government your tax dollars they're defending the billion dollar ballroom and now doj lawyers who again work for you they're not trump's personal lawyers even though he put his former personal lawyer atop the doj right now they say he could destroy any national monument without Congress, without the public.

1:56This is all on tape. DOJ telling a judge if Trump wants, he could bulldoze the Statue of Liberty and no one can do anything about it. The government decided to very quickly and bulldoze the Statue of Liberty, the people who,

2:12Juanita Tolliver:ancestors, that was the first thing they saw coming to this country. But the government move too fast, nothing can be done. I think that's right. Yes. That's the kind of question a judge poses to test the outer limits. And sometimes you pick something so extreme that a lawyer, in this case, a lawyer for the government, but any lawyer who is supposed to argue zealously, but within the law and the facts might say, well, no, not that far, your honor. Certainly there are some limits here, even if we claim to do whatever we want with the ballroom. Not here, though. The DOJ making its version of Donald Trump's infamous claim that he could shoot anyone on Fifth Avenue.

2:54Here they could proverbially shoot or eliminate Lady Liberty herself. The overtones, the symbolism being quite obvious. But let's check how this really works. The federal appeals court panel was skeptical about those arguments. So the fact that the DOJ said them does not mean they're true or legal, something we've all gotten quite accustomed to lately. The symbolism is striking why this DOJ lawyer would want to jump in and claim that you could actually destroy this symbol, this beacon of freedom that on our best days we celebrate and people around the world look to as America. In fact, to pick a modern example, if you type America into your text message, you'll usually get suggestions of the American flag and Lady Liberty herself.

3:49That's how synonymous this is. So the symbolism of saying you can destroy it, there's nothing we can do about it, is telling. As for the ballroom, a watchdog group says corruption is rampant. Over half of the donors have already received or increased getting government contracts for over 50 billion dollars. The White House says these are fake conflicts of interest and everything was just going on anyway, but the numbers, the receipts suggest a kind of pay for play. And again, that's at the cost of the taxpayer. If they give a small amount of money for some cause Trump wants and then get way more taxpayer money in return, money they might not have otherwise gotten, you're footing the bill.

4:31We also have late breaking Friday news here coming out of, again, an embattled DOJ. In a raft of lawsuits challenging the criminal fund, the DOJ has been on defense. Indeed, that MAGA criminal fund has already been paused, subject to further review. Congress may also just cancel it entirely. They've been on the ropes. Now, you might recall that Todd Blanche, the acting AG, told Congress that he wouldn't put it in writing, but the fund is over, not going forward. Here, you have this argument in court where they say it's not going forward. Now, if you look at me here and say, okay, kind of matches up.

5:09What's the big deal? Well, what's striking is they're not dropping out. They're not dropping the case and agreeing to just end the fund completely. So we're going to keep a close eye on what happens, although they're clearly in a type of retreat. But second, the DOJ lawyers tonight, this just crossed the wires here within the last few hours, are doing exactly what Todd Blanche said he wouldn't do. He's in charge of the DOJ, but whether he's actually meaningfully in charge, well, that's one of the questions that gets raised when this happens, because he made a big point of saying he wouldn't put the end of the fund in writing.

5:42Juanita Tolliver:You established it in writing, so it just makes sense to rescind it in writing. I think a lot of Americans, both sides of the aisle, are concerned about it, and it would restore a lot of trust about this issue. Okay, I'm not committing to doing anything in writing. I'm not committing. Okay. I mean, I'll take it under advisement. Not committed to put it in writing, even though he's doing something that actually, in a way, is usually bigger than writing when you're a cabinet official or acting official and you're testifying to Congress. But he drew that line this week, and tonight we can report what I showed you briefly on the screen, that they have put it in writing.

6:16They say it's not going forward, while they also are still defending aspects of what they claim is their power to do this. whether the courts and Congress ultimately agree is the question, because Statue of Liberty claims or not, we still live in a democracy. The president and his lawyers do not get to do everything they want unilaterally. And if that includes giving money to criminals who beat up police or musing about the power to destroy the Statue of Liberty, you also have to ask, why would they want to do those things in the first place. I want to bring in our Friday night heavy hitters, Emily Bazelon from the New York Times Magazine and Juanita Tolliver, host of the podcast Archival, also an MS Now analyst.

7:00Emily, what do you think of the Statue of Liberty thing, which is sort of symbolic, but also maybe not, and the sort of double talk but partial retreat we're seeing in this new DOJ filing? Well, I think if the Justice Department lawyer who said, yes, we can destroy the Statute of Liberty had any choice, he would have said no, because it's obviously makes the government seem like they are willing to be reckless and are claiming the power to destroy any piece of architecture in the country. I think the reason he felt that he couldn't say no is that the government has already destroyed the East Wing of the White House.

7:41And so in order to justify that and to say that there's no remedy for that, he felt that he had to claim that the government has this limitless power. So that's my answer to the first part of your question. I think the fund is confusing. You know, do they mean that they're really not going to do it now that they've said so in court? Did Blanche think ahead before he said, no, I won't put this in writing? Or was he just feeling defiant because that's the general posture when Trump appointees testify before Congress. It's really hard to tell. It's very unpopular. Other than Trump saying the other day that he loved it, they seem to be ready to let go of it, but also not quite.

8:22Yeah. Juanita, I don't know how much you listen to future Hendricks, Atlanta's toxic king. Come on, Woody Harren. You know, well, very simply in an attitude that can come off as arrogant, that can bring you back down to earth. He always used to say you do what you want when you pop it. And he meant he could get away with anything. And, you know, to compare this this legal claim that the DOJ is making to a kind of more nefarious gangster energy, I don't think is a stretch. you can't just do anything and everything you want, even if you think you have quote unquote power. And so I wonder about, you know, what you think this reveals, not only legally, but politically, because riding high January after the election, Doge and all that stuff that, you know, everybody was a little scattered.

9:14They don't have that kind of power now. And they seem to be alienating these judges with these claims.

9:21Juanita Tolliver:Because Donald Trump doesn't care about what the public thinks, Ari. As Emily pointed out, these are highly unpopular moves. A majority of the country opposes this ballroom. Majority of the country opposes the arch. A majority of the country or two-thirds of the country don't want Donald Trump's name on money, all things that he has been pushing forward. And when it comes to the court, I think the signal there is, I don't care what you say. I'll take you to real housewives, Lane. Go with me, Ari, because it's giving Sheree Whitfield's who's going to check me. And another moment from the hearing today that caught my attention was the judge asked, so no court, this court, the Supreme Court, no court can stop this process, is what you're saying to me.

10:07Juanita Tolliver:And the DOJ attorney said, yes. And that translates to the Trump administration saying, who is going to stop us? And I think it falls in line with the trend of destruction across institutions. Let's move beyond architecture. Go back to dismantling and hollowing out full agencies. USAID, defunct, Department of Education, hollowed out. Go back to Elon Musk and Doge running rampant, gaining access to U.S. taxpayers' personal data and information, going after court battle after court battle from agency to agency to try to stop their movement. This is the play of the Donald Trump administration are.

10:47Yeah. Steve Bannon himself looks at all this as losing the midterms in the Senate, risking basically losses that weren't automatic. We know Trump's unpopular, but the congressional races in the Senate cycle is not just a national vote. So the Republicans have some built in advantages. And even with that, here's what Bannon is saying. We're going to lose the Senate in the fall anyway. No grassroots leader, none of the grassroots phalanx, the hoplites. Nobody's excited about going door to door and doing voter engagement. Juanita?

11:27Juanita Tolliver:And that's the core of campaigning, Ari. I think it's also important to emphasize why nobody's excited to go door to door because Republicans have nothing to show their constituents, sorry, what is the message going to be on the doors from congressional Republicans who have done nothing to rein in Trump's tariffs, who have done next to nothing up until this week to rein in war powers in Iran, which have, we know, negatively impacted people in their wallets, which Donald Trump has expressly said he does not care about. So when you have nothing to sell to people, no vision of the future, of course, is looking negative.

12:01Juanita Tolliver:And Ari, I want to point out, notice he didn't say the House, where Donald Trump started the gerrymandering war around gaining seats for their party because they knew, again, on some stance, there is nothing there to sell to voters. And so rigging the mats was the only way forward for the Republican Party. Mm hmm. I wonder, Emily, if we could just broaden out. I mean, Todd Blanche, the president says he's going to nominate him. He comes in after a really bruising period at DOJ with Bondi and all these problems and a lot of losses. And I wonder how you rate this sort of acting period because it's been tumultuous.

12:38He's done a ton of political media. He's thrown these bombs. He's overseen the rollout of this program that is immediately engulfed in controversy. It doesn't seem to be, by any objective measure, a solid start. Although on the brazen partisan loyalty to Trump, the only thing he may care about, he's proved that. Yeah, I mean, I think if you rate it as audience of one, Trump said the other day that he was doing a great job. Trump is the person who at least decides whether to nominate him and also whether to keep him in this acting role, whether the Senate confirms him or not. So I think that's the only measure of success that seems to matter to Todd Blanche.

13:21And he seems to be meeting that bar and all of the problems you just outlined, which are going to be part of his legacy and which are, you know, further shredding the independence of the Justice Department and the integrity of its stances in court and all the positions it's taking, those just seem to be, you know, collateral damage. Juanita?

13:43Juanita Tolliver:I think that's absolutely right. The goal here, as is what I mentioned before, try to push and buck the system as much as possible with the expectation that no one will stand up to you. We know congressional Republicans aren't going to stand up to them. They're not going to assert their separate but equal power. And so I'm curious to see what comes of this ruling back to the DOJ attorney explicitly saying, yes, this is the plan. This is the play. We push boundaries with the expectation that no one is going to roll it back on us. yeah um and then you have of course not only the vanity projects but the almost sort of obsessive uh refurbishment of washington i mean we got a war we got a gas crisis we got all these problems uh and if you're just a random person going wait donald trump the president each day is obsessing over the algae collection residue issues in the reflecting pool like i'm not exaggerating that's like what's on his mind i'm going to show you how the daily show went after him on that.

14:43Our guests return in 90 seconds.

14:52We're back with Emily and Juanita, and here is that Daily Show moment I mentioned. He's building an arch. He's covering statues in gold. He's adding a s'mores station to Kennedy's eternal flan. But his biggest project has been renovating the reflecting pool by the Lincoln Memorial. Because as you know, one of the powers granted to the president in the constitution is pool boy. Now.

15:23Juanita Tolliver:I guess I'm going to need to start watching the Daily Show more, Ari, because that is wild. And it shows the absurdity of the hellscape that a lot of people are experiencing. Because while Donald Trump is focused on those frivolous, ridiculous, tacky actions, real people are struggling with putting food on the table, putting gas in their cars, like basically paying for health care since the health care tax subsidies were eliminated by Trump and Republicans, right? Like that is what they're going to be taking into the voting booth come November, Ari, because Trump has made no effort. Congressional Republicans have made no effort to ameliorate these conditions that real people are experiencing day to day.

16:03Juanita Tolliver:And I saw a post about Trump on Truth Social saying that Republicans have won the affordability challenge. No, they have not. And people struggling day in and day out is going to reflect that. I think that's also shown in the lack of enthusiasm we're seeing. I saw an NPR poll that recently showed that Democrats are extremely enthusiastic about voting in the upcoming midterms at levels they were in 2018, whereas Republicans are down 12 points from where they were in 2018. And so I'm going to be watching that to see how much more the reality continues to impact voters and whether or not they're going to show up at the polls come November.

16:41Yeah. And Emily, the way the president wants to do it all alone, that's why he's in court so much. Republicans control both houses. If he just had his folks send up the plans, fold it into other legislation on a lot of the building stuff. you'd expect a lot of it to pass. I mean, they don't fight him on much. It's because he seized the unilateral powers and started tearing things down and then going, you know, ham, that finally the Republicans, even in the Senate, pushed back on the ballroom. But can you speak to just how unusual it is for a president to seize this much unilateral power, including on what are basically small remodeling items.

17:28Yeah, I mean, there's a real decline of the Roman Empire vibe here and a sense of imperialism. And you certainly see it in stiff-arming Congress doing everything possible by executive order instead of legislation. And I think you also see it in court. Going back to the arguments we were talking about earlier, the Trump administration is saying to the judges, you have no job to do here. We can do whatever we want. The executive branch makes all the decisions and you are shut out of even reviewing our decision making process. They have made that argument in case after case since Trump took office the second time.

18:06And that is just very hard for judges to swallow, I think, more than Congress even. Right. Because they are a step removed from partisan politics and they are no longer standing for election. And so it's just a lot that the Trump administration is asking for their party and even the judges they've appointed to go along with. Yeah. You know, it's really striking because you look at the end of a week like that of this that we've lived through in any other era. You'd be talking about these rampant corruption scandals, DOJ failures, at least until the midterms maybe rebalance some of the politics.

18:44but people just say well I guess that's Trump I guess that's the kind of president he is and his party may care a lot about the gas prices in the polls but he doesn't so we're kind of going to live through that for however many months longer and then we'll see what the people say. Emily and Juanita thanks to both of you. I want to tell folks with all this Knicks fever we have Bill Bradley returning to the show tonight liberal icon and of course he played on the last Knicks team to win a championship. We also are taking another look as we've been doing lately not just at the daily politics, but some of the forces underneath it.

19:15These MAGA tech billionaires who some of them are taking over media and news and CNN and CBS. Some of them are part of a push to build data centers that really reshape the American landscape as we know it. Activist Erin Brockovich is here on that. There's two things that aggravate me, Mr. Masri. Being ignored and being lied to. I trusted you. I'm sorry about that. I don't need pity. I need a paycheck. The real life Erin Brockovich joins us coming up. Welcome back to the dry eye sufferer in the wild. Ah, here we have Randy, who's walked away from her screen and is flushing her eyes in the office sink.

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21:52For all the things that are happening in our politics, our government, our civic life, our media, underneath them there is a growing force that matters a lot, whether you think about it or don't, whether you fear it or welcome it. Artificial intelligence and the massively rich tech companies building and distributing it has a huge impact on all of us. And we don't have laws for most of it, as I mentioned in a related report we did this week, because it's brand new. Most laws are about things that we've had for a while. There are way more laws about transportation and trains than there are about AI right now.

22:32And that could be a problem because it's just running roughshod over a lot of things from the job market to the environment. So Americans are increasingly skeptical of AI. We've seen pushback in a lot of different ways, and it's coming to them. So while AI sounds like a virtual thing and you can have a little chatbot on your phone, something's got to power all of that stuff. And it turns out it is a massive undertaking. So they have these data centers that fuel what has become a fast, massive global computing system. It uses a lot of energy and electricity. So that's one question of whether it pays for itself or not.

23:11Most of this is from fossil fuels. It's strained power grids. It's actually raised prices in some areas where people who may not be a part of the AI boom at all just find that all the energy is getting sucked up. It's thousands of gallons of fresh water daily that also keeps those sites from overheating. So there's a lot of cascading impacts here. There is related pollution and noise. So more and more people in places that have found these data centers are coming to them are going to count meetings and pushing back.

23:43Juanita Tolliver:The community, the residents, we will be forfeiting our water for the benefit of these data center corporations. We're worried about light pollution, noise pollution, heat pollution. The noise doesn't drop down and get stopped. The noise radiates from above. I don't want sick kids. I don't want a sick community. I don't want tainted water. Who's going to want to buy the house with that noise? No one's going to want to buy. Please don't let us down. Please. Our land won't, our businesses will be destroyed here. Big companies coming in. putting down those data centers saying, hey, this is a boom, this is a new thing.

24:23And while some people somewhere may benefit from aspects of it, that's fine. They sometimes talk about it like it's all upside or we'll all just have free time. When the robots take our jobs, the question being, well, without jobs, what we all do and how we pay for our livelihood and those houses nearby there what is of their future, right? Because that cost is just being passed on to them. So while we've had different, of course, revolutions in technology before in this country, and there were a lot of people who've gotten used to the internet and the dot-com boom and social media and use it, if you follow politics, you know, social media is a big part of politics, kind of unavoidable.