Late Night Hosts Skewer Trump over Free Speech Attacks

0:00Is it possible for AI to work in the enterprise? The short answer is yes. The long answer is, oh yes. Users can pick the AI providers they prefer, and you can decide which data is off-limits, monitor all AI activity, and control every detail. This is Enterprise AI from Ireland. AI at its best by keeping out the worst. Scaled for the enterprise. From Ireland. Watch Disclosure Day at home now with exclusive bonus features. If you found out we weren't alone, if someone showed you, proved it to you, would that frighten you? Well, now the truth belongs to 7 billion people in an original event film directed by Steven Spielberg from a screenplay by David Koepp starring Emily Blunt, Josh O 'Connor, Colin Firth, Eve Hewson, and Coleman Domingo.

0:54Find Disclosure Day on major digital platforms now with no subscription required. also in theaters. I want to welcome everyone to The Beat. I'm Ari Melber. The Trump administration's effort to gut the First Amendment continues to draw blowback. ABC suspended Jimmy Kimmel after government pressure from the FCC, but the move now has ABC and its parent company, Disney, in crisis. So first, let me tell you tonight, we have new reporting and some special guests on the internal decision-making there, a company that has caved but may yet change gears again. Meanwhile, this Kimmel suspension has galvanized this national debate about Trump's effort to censor and silence critics and the press.

1:37And up top, I can tell you there is broad evidence of a broad plot here. Donald Trump's attacks, threats, and lawsuits against a whole range of outlets, speakers, and critics. And right now, tonight, he ends this week with a fresh loss. There's that new unusual lawsuit he filed against the New York Times, It's basically like Kimmel, in effect, because he didn't appreciate or agree with their coverage of him, their criticism. Well, today, a federal judge tossed that entire claimed$15 billion suit, noting it's decidedly improper and impermissible in its claims against the newspaper's First Amendment protected reporting.

2:12Now, Trump has lost. The suit is tossed. He can still respond in court. he can try to refile something that would, unlike this case, clear the very low hurdle of what is just a permissible suit. The case is technically separate from ABC, but clearly is the same playbook. And the Times fighting and winning quickly hangs over all of this tonight because it's the same playbook. And top Republicans also are not defending everything Trump is doing as it's all cast in the open this week, a Republican senator warning the censorship effort should make everyone careful about any lines we cross in diminishing free speech, while none other than Ted Cruz rebuking Trump's efforts to try to control or decide your free speech.

2:59I think it is unbelievably dangerous for government to put itself in the position of saying, we're going to decide what speech we like and what we don't, if the government gets in the business of saying, we don't like what you, the media, have said. We're going to ban you from the airwaves if you don't say what we like. That will end up bad for conservatives. That's Ted Cruz's concern. He's a longtime lawyer turned politician. He's extremely conservative in his politics. And you saw he put a little political point at the end. He said that would be bad for conservatives. Of course, it would be bad for liberals and libertarians and people with other varied views.

3:43Because since the founding of this country, it is bad for the government to try to control public speech, free speech, free press. And if they get away with it and do it enough, we don't have a democracy anymore. That's why if you look around the world, the countries like Russia that don't have free speech don't tend to have free governments either. So that's some Republicans, if you want to look at the politics in Washington on this, Democrats are united against it, speaking out, looking at ways they can deal with this, and they view it as a five-alarm fire and watershed fight. So that's just some of the initial reaction.

4:21There is also the law here, and we will continue to remind you of the law, exercising our free speech reporting and factual efforts within a whole national debate about what is factual and what is the law, because it's a likely violation of the First Amendment to pressure private companies to silence their views. The First Amendment prohibits the government from abridging free speech and free exercise of the press rights. And so that's from the beginning. Of all the things that have changed, that is supposed to hold steady. And the Supreme Court has held that for a very long time. Just last year, it reaffirmed a core holding that government officials cannot coerce private parties in order to punish or suppress views the government disfavors, which is literally the censorship agenda that Trump and his FCC chief Carr have been pursuing.

5:16So the thing they're doing is currently illegal, unlawful, unconstitutional. Now, there's no split here on this issue in the court Which also makes this a stronger precedent Different from, for example, cases you followed Where it's 5-4 and then maybe the court changes And a couple years later it's 4-5, right? It changes Well, let me show you All nine justices are for that ruling You know, when we show you breaking coverage And we have the justices against and dissent You'll notice that's blank That's accurate because all nine said the government cannot coerce businesses or media outlets, etc.

5:56You can't coerce them to suppress or change views. That's obviously against free speech in the First Amendment. The same case held, the First Amendment prohibits the government from relying on the threat of invoking legal sanctions and other means of coercion. For example, let's say you threaten it, but you haven't done it yet. That also is illegal if it's to achieve suppressing disfavored speech. So if Trump and Carr disfavor Jimmy Kimmel's criticism and make threats for it, that's unconstitutional. Again, who agrees with that? All nine current justices, including, as you know, many appointed by Trump.

6:36So this is a big point here as we wrap up the week. As Trump loses in court over a different case against a different media outlet, these are the justices who would, of course, ultimately rule on any challenge to the FCC allegedly shaking down networks like ABC and Disney. But there's a big if. That would be if Disney and ABC fought this in court. If they stood up to the pressure like the New York Times is doing, like many citizens are doing. They have lawyers on retainer. They have billions of dollars. But so far, even though this is the court that awaits them, 9-0 against exactly the type of censorship that Trump and Carr are doing, but so far they've been giving in, rushing to surrender.

7:27Here's how the nonpartisan AP puts it. What's going on right now in your country? Trump's moves against media outlets mirror authoritarian approaches to silencing dissent. It's happening here now. There is pushback. There is even a court standing by that might very well side against that authoritarian effort, but this is happening now. Now, there's an acclaimed expert on authoritarianism, Timothy Snyder. He's warned that with Trump, this is exactly what you have to face and cautioned against obeying in advance, even as some powerful people and companies appear to be doing that. Then others are speaking out.

8:10And it is easy sometimes for people to kind of look away and say, well, I don't know if this concerns me, or isn't that just entertainment, or isn't that just one channel? But free speech is tested in the breach. Whether it is a journalist or a dissident, a politician or a comedian, a musician, or someone doing interpretive dance that some autocrat doesn't like. And remember, we don't always get to pick the person. It is interesting that Ted Cruz is speaking out against Jimmy Kimmel, even though Jimmy Kimmel has obviously made jokes about Ted Cruz and plenty of other politicians in both parties.

8:50But that shows some level of intellectual consistency on this issue. It doesn't really matter whether you like Jimmy Kimmel or whether you ever watched his program. When you look around a lot of other people who weigh in with free speech, whether you think it's funny or not, or you agree with their politics or not, Across Late Night, we are seeing them stand up and speaking the way they do about this alleged cowardice of those already bowing to Trump's censorship. Jimmy Kimmel was suspended by ABC after pressure from the FCC, leaving everyone thinking WTF. We have another fun, hilarious administration-compliant show.

9:34that I've always admired and respected Mr. Trump. If you felt a little off these past couple of days, it's probably because our great father has not been home. And if you've ever seen me say anything negative about him, that's just AI. President Trump is making America great again. Is Donald Trump stifling free speech? Of course not, John. Well, all they do is hit Trump. They're licensed. They're not allowed to do that. Yes, they are. There's a reason free speech is in the very First Amendment. It stands above all others. You might even say it's... The ultimate. That's some of what we heard there.

10:21You'll notice the darker jokes are about what it would be like if we continue down this road, if Trump gets away with this. And remember whose voice you didn't hear in that montage. Jimmy Kimmel. Because the FCC and billions of dollars hanging in the balance over the merger we told you about last night have so far censored Disney and ABC. So we don't have Kimmel yet, certainly. Eventually, he could speak out at any number of platforms. But the government effectively pausing a show that used to reach millions of people is a problem. And if you think this is going to be contained to just comics or just entertainment, then maybe you haven't followed any world history ever.

11:08Of course, you're listening to the news right now, so maybe you're more inclined to say this is the beginning, not the end. But Donald Trump called for this week the cancellation of one of the comics I just showed you, who happens to be on our sister channel, NBC, in the entertainment side. But he didn't stop at Jimmy Kimmel. He then said, well, if this is working on broadcasters, let's go after Jimmy Fallon. No first name relation. And he's not going to stop there either, because even though he lost in the courts to the New York Times, He clearly wants to go after the people who are, A, reporting facts, because that seems to be a problem for this government and other governments.

11:47We've seen that before. And B, people who criticize him. So this is the country if we can keep it. Or we turn into the dystopian punchline of the joke I showed you from The Daily Show where only approved speech is allowed, not only in comedy, but in news. And eventually not only in news, but in your community with government monitors. and punishment and firings and sanctions for people speaking their mind. And then you don't have a free speech democracy anymore. If you watch this program, The Beat, you may know we really deal in the evidence and facts. We don't do freewheeling alarmism. The alarm that I'm bringing you tonight is based on the evidence of what the government is doing, getting away with, and trying to do more of.

12:32Now, some Americans are already pushing back. We've heard that business and money was part of the threat here. So some people using their money and wallets are immediately canceling their entire Disney subscriptions, which of course covers a lot more than just ABC, to say they don't want Bob Iger's Disney products if this is the censorship agenda, the anti-First Amendment cave that they sign on to, and then they're echoing that in their own platforms online. Disney Plus, yeah, y 'all can go ahead and hit the road, Jack. That was your mistake, getting scared by the FCC. Not Disney Plus, not a Disney Cruise, not Disneyland, not Disney World.

13:13I found out that there's a protest at Disney headquarters and I'm going. Disney Plus and Hulu, canceled. Throw you in the bin. We will not be there with Mickey and Minnie. Remember, if these companies are just going with what they think the pressure is, money or government pressure, there are a lot of people who can provide their own pressure. That's true in sort of consumer culture. It's true in democracy. You still have your voice. You still have your money. You still have the ways you can express yourself. And remember, now is the time to do it. Although I'm not telling you what to do. Everyone can make up their own minds, of course.

13:50ABC and Disney executives now scrambling over their rush decision Wednesday to give into the government, top brass, even engaging in talks to get Kimmel back on the air. That is a very different tone from Wednesday when they rushed to respond to the FCC threats and made a point of announcing that he was going to be benched basically for the long haul. They didn't say it was a week or two weeks. They just sort of said, well, indefinitely. This whole thing on the ABC Disney side goes all the way up to the Disney chief, Bob Iger. The buck stops with this man. He is a powerful man. He controls Disney and has done that for many years in and out of that role.

14:34And right now his legacy is being written more for his business acumen, which is widely praised, his ability to manage talent. I could just tell you quite honestly, this is a person who people in news and media think of as very smart and powerful. But right now, a lot of people who know free speech and the First Amendment, a lot of people who work with Jimmy Kimmel, a lot of people from Ted Cruz out to liberal lawyers say he is overseeing the wrong decision and direction. Instead of doing what the New York Times did and standing up for his work and his people, he appears to be co-signing what for now is an effort to allow the government to silence critics.

15:15We have more reporting on Mr. Iger and that aspect of this coming up later this hour with some very special experts. As for the New York Times editorial board, which of course is separate than the newsroom and separate than the lawyers, but they're all on the same page about the First Amendment, they note today the ability to disagree with other people on raw, difficult issues without fear of repression is the essence of American freedom. That freedom is under attack. And this is the way we live now. We do live in a capitalist country. We know that people consume media through private companies.

15:51And we know that those companies do care about the bottom line and live in a regulated environment. But the Trump second term is serving up a level of autocratic challenge that we didn't always face in the first, where we have to decide as a country, as people, and those people involved in running certain companies have to decide where the line is. Can you uphold the First Amendment? And do you have what some would call courage, but others would call the basic prudence to look at a Supreme Court that's held 9-0, that the government can't do this to your company, and play that out in court and find out if you can win or not?

16:30Or do you, as our expert cautioned against, do you obey in advance? acclaimed historian timothy snyder is here on this i want to talk about what you're thinking this week we're back together in 90 seconds

16:49adventures don't always go as planned one minute you're cruising in your rv the next your tire hits a massive pothole progressive is ready for you when the unexpected hits with excellent claim service for your boat rv and motorcycle plus optional coverage like roadside assistance and on-the-water towing. Visit progressive.com and make sure your next adventure is unforgettable for the right reasons. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Coverage is subject to policy terms and limits. Watch Disclosure Day at home now with exclusive bonus features.

17:22If you found out we weren't alone, if someone showed you, proved it to you, would that frighten you? Well, now the truth belongs to 7 billion people in an original event film directed by Steven Spielberg from a screenplay by David Koepp starring Emily Blunt, Josh O 'Connor, Colin Firth, Eve Hewson, and Coleman Domingo. Find Disclosure Day on major digital platforms now with no subscription required, also in theaters. All of us trans are in real danger, and whatever it is, it's closing in. It started with just a few lost hairs here and there, but now more and more of us are disappearing every day.

18:01But listen, we think we have a plan, a way to stop the shedding. Pantene Abundant and Strong. Go now. It's not too late. Pantene Abundant and Strong. It's a three-step system that reduces hair loss by 85%. Only the strongest will survive the shedding.

18:23I gotta say, he threatens it. He says, we can do this the easy way, or we could do this the hard way. Yeah. And I gotta say, that's right out of Goodfellas. That's right out of a mafioso coming into a bar going, nice bar you have here. It'd be a shame if something happened to it. Ted Cruz speaking out today. We're joined by historian Tim Snyder. He's with the University of Toronto. the author of the widely cited on freedom and on tyranny. Welcome. Glad to be with you. Your thoughts on this censorship crisis as we end the week? Well, that's exactly the right way to describe it. We are in a moment which is not about grief or companies or individuals.

19:11We're in a moment where we're deciding whether it's normal that the state represses free speech, that the government directly represses free speech. That is where we are. That's how we have to define it. That's how we have to react. When you see these companies not even test what the government can do, what does that tell you? I mean, as a historian, I think about how they would like their biographies to be written later on, the CEOs. As a historian, I know looking at the past, that people in power set examples. Business isn't the only thing that matters, but business is one thing that matters a lot in times of political crisis.

19:53The other thing I think about American politics and the way we do things is that it's probably a mistake to bundle so many companies together. It would be better if our media environment were more heterogeneous and more diverse. But the final thing, as you suggested in your wonderful opening, is that this is ultimately about ethics. Are we going to signal that we stand for something or are we going to let this go? I only smiled when you mentioned consolidation because the FCC is not allowed and is banned from trying to distort or punish free speech. The FCC is allowed to patrol monopolistic drift in our media, which is something you just referred to.

20:32And in the height of hypocrisy, I haven't even hit it this week because we've been busy. One of the things that the Trump FCC is doing is holding out the carrot of allowing more monopolistic consolidation than it normally would, as long as those companies then do what Trump wants in repression. How do you kind of address that? What are the solutions based on your knowledge of history to deal with that, if indeed, at the short-term level, there may not be a way to change those companies' minds? Yeah, it's a great point, because there are two evils are being accomplished at the same time. The one is the consolidation of media, and the other is the intimidation of media.

21:15And both of them are bad, and both of them are being carried out by the FCC right now. From the point of view of recent history, the recent history of the media, it's actually quite important not to allow private media to be consolidated in a few hands. It's quite important to make sure that the hands in which it is consolidated, if it must be, are not close to the regime. And that's another story this week, the trend in that direction. And it's very important on the positive side to make sure that there are plenty of sources of media so that we're at less risk when this sort of thing happens.

21:48We've also seen the Orwellian use of these terms, election integrity for the people who actually tried to stage an insurrection, free speech for business billionaires who don't support it. and some on the right, and I've given credit, Ted Cruz, more consistent on this, but others not. I want to play the contrast. We put this together so people can follow some of the hypocrisy. Take a look. Under Donald Trump's leadership, we may disagree with your views, but we will fight to defend your right to offer it in the public square. When you see someone celebrating Charlie's murder, call them out in hell.

22:29Call their employer. They want to silence and punish conservatives. they're trying to do it across the board on social media. They're trying to go after small business people who donated to Republicans. It's unbelievable. Do I think it's good that Disney yanked a show? Yeah, I do, actually. That was their choice. Why are liberals so afraid of freedom and freedom of speech? Turn off the TV, turn off a radio dial, turn off a podcast. Like, had had enough after this comment? It's not a shock. He did this to himself. Nobody pushed. He jumped. Fact check. People did push. The government's pushing is well demonstrated.

23:05It's only up to Sean Hannity and Fox to figure out why they're either ignoring or perhaps deliberately mischaracterizing that. But the president and the FCC chair have been quite clear. But second, it wasn't hard to make that montage. Those are all relatively recent remarks. Your response? Yeah, that could go on and on, as you say. I mean, there are a lot of folks who really are talking about not free speech, but about me speech. they want free speech for themselves and they want to bully others and the only views that are allowed are going to be theirs and that is unfortunately very much the case with the vice president free speech is wonderful so long as it's all about people repeating what the president and vice president say the other thing which comes through which is dangerous in that montage is denunciation culture where americans are now being instructed that they don't like the views of other Americans, they should try to punish them.

23:59That is a bad idea in any circumstances. It's certainly a bad idea in this superheated environment. And it's something that people should be resisting regardless of what they think of the views that are being expressed. We should not get into the habit of denouncing one another. Yeah. Tim Snyder, with your background, especially some of your warnings, very interesting to hear from you tonight. Thanks for being our special guest. We have a lot more on this story coming up. We'll be right back.

24:27If ABC thinks that this is going to satisfy the regime, they are woefully naive. And clearly they've never read the children's book. If you give a mouse a Kimmel. Colbert there showing his solidarity with Kimmel and laughing through the pain. There are new details about how ABC and Disney dealt with this when they went into a panic after being called out by Trump's FCC chair. following those public comments from the FCC, advertisers and affiliates were reportedly expressing concern. Then we know that Disney CEO Bob Iger and the television chief there, Dana Walden, according to reports, viewed this as a big problem.

25:09They didn't slow down and give it a couple days. They rush into it that night. So we knew that, but the new reporting from the journal shows what went down. Kimmel was going to say his words were being purposely twisted by MAGA. That's a position that he clearly holds and one people can debate. The Journal reports the execs worried that that type of response on his show that night would actually make the situation worse. They had the time pressure of an audience that was literally about to start filing into that studio. Network executives on Thursday were hoping now were told to find a path still for their star, Kimmel, according to the Times, to return to the airwaves.

25:50With all of the intrigue and the high stakes, we want to bring in some real insiders. Longtime New York Times vet, Bill Carter, has written four different books on late night. He knows the characters, the players, and the business of this particular American tradition. Paul Mercurio has won an Emmy Award with The Late Show with Stephen Colbert. You see him there as a performer on that program, late night participant, podcast hosts, and all around funny guy. Welcome to both of you. Yeah, good to have you. Yeah, it's great. You were on my show. You were great. On the pod. Yeah. Well, I want to go to Bill Carter first, just on the play-by-play.

26:26You've covered this whole space. Yeah. What do you think about these new accounts, as well as your own observations and reporting, where it did go all the way up to Iger, and apparently he wanted to very quickly go at least towards the government side while on the intrigue tonight, we're told they may still find a way back for Kimmel. Well, I think he was in a position where he had to make a decision that was in the immediate. So he did take the show off, but he didn't say it was canceled. Trump went out and said it was canceled. The show was not canceled. He suspended the show. He didn't say for how long.