Manhunt Underway For Charlie Kirk Shooter

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0:56digital platforms now with no subscription required, also in theaters. I'm Ari Melber, and tonight we're following the manhunt that continues for the shooter that killed conservative leader Charlie Kirk at that event in Utah yesterday. Officials have indicated there are multiple leads. The FBI has now released images of who they view as a suspect. You see him here. This is an individual that, of course, people are looking for in Utah and any nearby area, the reward up to$100 ,000 simply for information. Investigators did see on the roof of the university building this morning. They're seen there out in Utah as they work to track movements and any other information they can gather.

1:41Officials say that after firing that deadly shot, which killed Kirk, the shooter jumped off this roof, they believe, and then fled amid the chaos into surrounding neighborhoods. We do have good video footage of this individual. We are not going to release that at this time. We are working through some technologies and some ways to identify this individual. The suspect blended in well with a college institution. We're not releasing many details right now, and we will soon. But right now we're not. But that individual appears to be of college age. authorities there just speaking about what they learned and when we might see more of the actual underlying video.

2:24There's also now the dispatch audio, which reveals what it sounded like that very moment the authorities first thought they had a description of this suspect. It's going to be wearing all black, black long gun, black tactical helmet, a black mask, possibly wearing a tactical vest and jeans. This was an event where many people were coming to experience a public presentation about political issues on a campus. So many people had video going for their own live video, which is how some of this first came out on different social media platforms. Other people were taking videos. Kirk himself had shared videos moments before the event began.

3:09And so those videos in today's world also provide clues which law enforcement may use. There's video from before the shooting that also appears to indicate that someone dressed in all black was perhaps, or dark material, best you can make it from this view, was laying or crouching there on that roof. That's according to video posted to X. Another witness posted a video of chaos right after the shooting, and it does appear to show what could be a person on that roof all the way there. You see them there in the pause. They were seen to be moving across that roof. Authorities also indicating a weapon recovered at the scene.

3:48It's a high-powered bolt-action rifle. That rifle was recovered in a wooded area where the shooter had fled. The FBI laboratory will be analyzing this weapon. Investigators have also collected footwear impression, a palm print, and forearm imprints for analysis. Mr. Kirk was a prominent figure. He was, as we showed last night, someone who had been anointed to speak at the RNC, who was probably, no exaggeration, the most prominent young Republican figure in the MAGA era. someone who ascended in his 20s to being on a level of knowing, really spending time with, through his forums and events and through his podcast, all the senior people in the Trump administration.

4:36And so there is a personal aspect to this, while also the people in their actual duties are going to continue to do law enforcement and executive leadership. So FBI Director Patel, who posted some misinformation or information that was soon less than accurate yesterday, is heading to Utah and his role as FBI director, Vice President J.D. Vance, who knew and campaigned with Kirk at one point, will be meeting with family and friends, which is fitting. They all know each other years back. We're told the casket will then be flown on Air Force Two to Phoenix. We have our experts standing by while we begin first on the ground in Orem, Utah.

5:12MSNBC's Steve Patterson reporting there. Steve, what can you tell us? Ari, the latest we have in this investigation came in about 20, 30 minutes ago. It's a press release from the Utah Department of Public Safety, essentially with the headline that you've already mentioned. There are multiple leads. There is not a suspect in custody. This comes in the context of a news conference that was delayed multiple times throughout the day and then finally delayed indefinitely with the guys that there were rapid developments in this case. Those developments, obviously syncing up with the fact that the FBI director was also landing on the ground as well.

5:50But this really is the only information that we've gotten since an update that came at about nine o 'clock this morning. So still so much to learn. What came in this press release was sort of detailing a lot of the information that we had known already. Obviously, the photos that are now out to the public, obviously more about the search itself. The FBI offering that hundred thousand dollar reward seems to indicate that they are still maybe possibly in the initial phases of this investigation, that they really required the public's help, any photos, any video to help track down the suspected person, that those images did come from a campus security camera.

6:27That's new information that was obviously taken during the events or right after the events, the horrific events that took place at about noon yesterday. And then as part of that, this timeline that this person of interest arrived on campus likely at about 1152, The shot took place at 1210. Between then, he went up the stairs to that vantage point about 200 yards away, hopped off of the roof, escaped through campus. And they believe into a nearby neighborhood where a lot of the thrust of the investigation has been focused, because obviously there may be eyewitnesses. There may be somebody with a report of what happened.

7:00There may be even some of that doorbell cameras. So typical now in these neighborhoods that may have captured something. And so they've been canvassing those areas. It's also really been centered on the only really tangible piece of evidence that we know has been recovered from the scene, which is that high powered bolt action rifle. We're now hearing from this press release as well that there were that they are saying there were reported inscriptions as part of the detailed photograph of the ammunition or the weapon itself. But they are waiting to release more details on that because it didn't necessarily come from authorities themselves.

7:35And so we are back to the point where, you know, authorities are asking the public for anything that they may know. They just recently released another post on X asking for anybody who knows anything to, of course, respond as quickly as possible. And that no detail at this point, even hours on, is too small for investigators to learn. All right. This is Steve Patterson. Thank you very much. I want to bring in Jim Cavanaugh, former longtime ATF agent, and Bobby Chacon, former FBI special agent. Jim, we were discussing this around this time last night, what it would mean to get the weapon. Your breakdown of that now that authorities have it.

8:15Yeah, well, it's a tremendous piece of evidence. It's right in the middle of the case. In other words, the projectile that went through Charlie Kirk has been recovered. They know it's a.30-06, and now they have the.30-06 rifle. And it's the middle, and now the suspect is the other end of that string. So, you know, if you can get fingerprints, which the FBI laboratory will work diligently to get those, very likely can be on the cartridges that are in the magazine, you know, that feed the bolt-action rifle. Sometimes they wipe the rifle down, but they don't wipe down the cartridges or the magazine.

8:55There can be DNA from sweat, from touch. There can be hair. And, of course, you can trace the gun. And they're already doing all that. I'm sure the urgent trace is in. Then they have to follow those leads. And it was wrapped in a towel, Ari, so that can be full of sweat DNA. So that's a tremendous lead. I doubt this person is any kind of sophisticated criminal. It may be their first homicide because of the way this is, you know, targeted and the motivations that are, you know, bubbling up. The person, you know, this is a lot of, we talked about terrorism and political assassination. And what's important here is just where the killer decided to kill Mr.

9:34Kirk, you know, right at his rally while he's sitting in his spot in front of thousands of his followers and fans. He could have tracked him down to his home or killed him on the street. No, he wanted to kill him right there, right there in front of everyone. That's the theater of the murder, the theater of the assassin here he wants or she. I would say the image, we can talk about that, but I'm not sure it's a man. I've looked at it extensively. I've done this a lot on many major cases. Is it a man? I don't know. I can tell you for sure it's a disguise. The wraparound sunglasses and the flag shirt with the eagle, this is all a disguise.

10:19Because at the rally, Mr. Kirk, he's wearing a shirt that says freedom. All his followers are very patriotic. They wear a lot of clothing with the flag, and they're patriots, and they talk about that frequently. And that's kind of the way his followers are. And this guy's trying to blend in with his followers. This is a disguise. And when you look at it that way, you know, you can't rule out, could this be a female? You know, you cut your hair, you put on those sunglasses. I'm just saying, you can't rule it out. We don't have enough. No, and you're reminding. Yeah, I was going to say you're reminding folks as well how an investigative team would look at this and you really take in all the information as neutrally as possible and you compare it to other information that you're getting in.

11:07And this is what they've released. Authorities have other information they've said, the video and other things they have not released. Whereas, as you know, Jim, there are people in life or on the Internet who have a quick, hot take interpreting what they're seeing on the screen without realizing that some people doing crime, as you say, are not dressed in their natural Monday outfit. They're doing something to blend with the area they're in. So any inference based on that, as you say, could be misplaced. I want to bring Bobby in and play a little more from Bo Mason discussing just what a horrific scene it was there yesterday.

11:42Take a listen. Having walked through the crime scene, through the hallways of this school, through the classrooms, I can't imagine what the people on scene felt as well. A horrific event where some of them barricaded in classrooms, some of them ran in fear.

12:01can't overstate the tragedy and the horrific event that yesterday was and how we will work to bring to justice the actions of one individual. Bobby, your thoughts on that and the hunt? Well, I mean, tragically, we're talking about this on the day where, you know, having the anniversary of another tragic event. You know, I was a first responder in New York City on 9-11. I was there. I watched those towers get hit. I watched them fall. I watched them fall onto my friends. And so, yeah, it is a chaotic scene. And you don't know if one shot is going to lead to four shots, 10 shots. We know what happened in Las Vegas.

12:41So anybody in that crowd is probably terrified of the next shot. And so you run anywhere. Sometimes you run towards the bullets because you don't know where the sound is coming from. There's a tremendous amount. Sometimes people get actually injured and killed just through the stampede to get away. And so I'm sure it was a and what happens in the process is, you know, there's a crime scene that now gets, you know, I mean, but the public safety is always number one. But, you know, now you can't recreate something when they're obliterated like that. But but certainly they've had some big breaks and certainly, you know, this was looks like now one perpetrator, one intended target, target victim.

13:19And unfortunately, one shot was taken and and killed the victim. And so it looks like he had an escape route. He had pre-planning. He had a towel that he knew he was going to wrap that gun within when he disposed of it. So he was planning something, which is disturbing because it means he probably planned to get away. And so he could be anywhere by now. Now, the two photos you're showing are the only two official photos that the FBI has released. And they're warning people, do not run these photos through AI. Do not try to enhance them yourself and re-release them. You know, there are a lot of people on social media chasing likes, chasing comments, and they get pictures like this and then they try to enhance them and they try to dig up something in that enhancement.

14:02The FBI is warning people, do not do that. Do not try to enhance these photos and re-release them with something else you think you see in that photo. Let the experts handle it. Let the investigators handle it. They'll release additional photographs, video, whatever, when they think it's strategically beneficial to the investigation. Yeah. Yeah. Jim, I want to put up just some of the headlines of when we were together last night. Again, these situations are always fluid, but that's why government officials tend to err on the side of caution. Even today, if you don't have everything ready, you delay a press conference before giving one that might add to the problem.

14:39First, do no harm. The FBI director struggled in that yesterday in what appeared to be a rush to do his own social media. And we know we're in an era where things are changing and how people and governments put out information. about the Reuters headline there, Director Patel scrutiny over the inaccurate claim and accurately saying the killer had been caught. That was the initial implication of his post on X, contradicted by local officials, leading to hours of confusion before the FBI then clarified, as we also later reported, two people have been questioned, both released following the incident.

15:12Jim, in the spirit of what we do in journalism, right, we report it as we know it and we correct it when we need to. What lessons are there for what are newcomers? I mean, the director and the deputy of the FBI have less experience than most people have had in those posts previously. I'll just say the president won an election. He can put in who he chooses. He has he has that power. He won it. And yet, Jim, what do you think the best case improvements might be on that for for these federal agencies? Both of you, of course, having done a lot of time in this kind of work. Right. Well, I do think the director's got his sea legs back today, and I do think you can look at this and see that the attorney general's handled this very well.

15:54You haven't seen her out front, and I guarantee you she is getting a briefing minute by minute from FBI and ATF in Washington, and yet she is, you know, handling it right. And I think the director is getting his sea legs. Look, I've been at so many of these. When you're a special agent in charge, you gather the other agents and chiefs and heads of the troopers, and you have a huddle, basically. I mean, I've done this so many times. You have a huddle, and you say, okay, this is where we are. These are the things we can't let out. We've got to save these. Only us and the bomber, us and the sniper, us and the killer will know this.

16:32This we can't let out. This is locked, but we've got to put some stuff out to help us. Let's put out this and this. maybe we can get a call from the public. And this is the message we're saying. This is what we're going to say in unison. And I used to say to the guys, we'll do a presser and we'll all say this and then go back where we usually go to a joint operations center. So we're all around each other all the time. But, you know, if you're out on the street and you get talked to by a reporter and you're the chief of police, go ahead and talk to them. The public wants to hear from you. You're the chief of police.

17:07Or if you're the FBI, SAC. But we all know what our collective message is. So we're not going to mess up. We're not going to let out something. But we're not going to go and do no comment. We're the leadership of the joint operation, and we've got to speak. And so that's the successful way to do it. I think the FBI director now is flying out there. He'll be with those commanders. And that's the proper thing. If he wants to be involved in that, then that's the proper thing. And to do it together and to be together. And so he's learned. He's learned it in a day. Yeah, you're saying, I mean, if you want to be that engaged, then you go to the agents on the ground and you're on the site and that might be best practice.

17:49And again, it can be live and learn for people with less experience. But it was striking and it goes to the value of experience at a time where there's been all kinds of debates in Washington about who should be running what and how much change you want at once. Jim Cavanaugh and Bobby Chacon, I want to thank both of you for rejoining us on this tough story. again after last night. Thank you. Later in the program, thousands of Epstein emails are out. We have the journalists who actually obtained them with an extraordinary scoop in that story that keeps on going. A lot of import that's coming up.

18:25We also have historian Doug Brinkley here. We'll be back in 90 seconds.

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20:08Former ATF director under President Biden, Steve Dettelbach, joins us now. Welcome. What do you see as important in the manhunt, the photos out, the incredible interest and national security imperative of finding this individual? And so I say as time goes on, there's two things that are happening. First, as time goes on, there's more time for the suspect to get further away from the scene, to hide better, to do all those things, right? But as time goes on, the other thing that's happening is law enforcement is developing more and more information about that person that's going to help us to find him.

20:47And let me tell you something. this individual is going to be caught at some point. That is going to happen. And you can see the beginnings of the fruits of that paying off, right? You can see the fact that there's now a picture that they're able to circulate to enlist the public. That's the traditional law enforcement tools. They're offering a reward. They're organized, right? Now they're in a joint operations center. You heard Jim Cavanaugh talk about this, right? They're meeting, they're delegating Utah State Police, FBI, ATF. Now, the marshals are involved. And then you have the follow-the-gun technology that we talked about that you just heard about before, right?

21:24This ballistic technology that enables that huge piece of evidence to be used for the investigation, to do a trace, an urgent trace, which I'm sure is already underway or done. And also, if there's an expended cartridge casing to use the National Integrated Ballistic Information Network and millions of ballistic fingerprints to try and link that to other potential crimes. So DNA, all the list of things are also being developed at the same time. And, you know, at this time, there can be this tremendous understandable, it's horrible, it's understandable desire from the public to know what happened and catch this person immediately.

22:06And unfortunately, that's not the way the world works. We have to be patient in terms of letting the law enforcement professionals do their job. And I am telling you, they're going to catch this perpetrator. We have this timeline that's been prepared. As you say, a lot of information coming together over the course of the last day and a half. 11.50 a.m., they believe they have the arrival. going to the roof access, which they got. 12.10, that shot, we knew that yesterday. And then the additional information that was not immediately apparent, crossing the roof, jumping the building, and then fleeing into the neighborhood where, again, without speculating, based on past examples, you would say an individual who'd planned this may be fleeing with what as their next step.

23:00Well, I think you have to learn more about the person to understand that, right? I mean, what they're doing is developing the contacts that this individual has, where he's from, where he might be going, looking at his patterns of life, all of those things. At the same time as they're conducting this manhunt physical search, they're doing these things to build the intelligence on this individual in the hopes that that will give them more information about where to best search. because I don't think I can say, certainly, you know, there's an old saying in Washington, those who know don't talk, those who don't know talk, right?

23:35I'm talking. I don't know what information they have. None of us knows. It's in that joint operations center inside the investigation that they know. And I will tell you, having been a director of ATF when a lot of these went on, I remember Lewiston, Maine, for instance, there was a significant period where there was a manhunt for that shooter. The public often has to be in the dark at some level because you don't want to somehow tip off the fugitive as to where you're going to be looking or that you know where he might go, right? And those things can happen unless the trained professionals, as Jim Cavanaugh said, are the ones making the decisions about what goes out and what doesn't.

24:18Because it is so easy with all the pressure and interest to make a mistake and to say something that does confuse people or worse yet, that gives the suspect an advantage for some period of time. How do you think the FBI leadership is handling it thus far? And could they learn from precedent and best practices? No, it's not for me to, in the middle of the game, aren't you our quarterback while they're trying to protect the public. I just say, for me as ATF director, when I went through these, I viewed my role during this critical period of time as understanding on a very routine basis, getting briefed about everything that was going on, number one, and number two, making sure I was there to give the right resources on a real-time basis to the people who were at ATF and FBI and at the local partners conducting the investigation.

25:11And then there comes a time for after action, and then there comes a time for understanding what could have been done better. But now is not that time. And one thing, since I haven't talked about this publicly, just how horrible for the people who were there, for the families, for everybody who knew the victim of this crime. But also, I want to say that since this crime occurred, this horrible incident, 120 Americans have lost their lives to firearms violence if this is an average day, 120 other people. And so we are going to catch this individual, Ari, but we have to find out how to solve this violence problem and this political violence problem, which seems to be getting worse and worse.