MS NOW, CNN & Politico Sue Trump Admin Over WH Ban

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1:10Our network, MSNOW, along with CNN and Politico, filing a lawsuit after being banned from the White House. And we have a hearing now set for Wednesday afternoon. The news outlets releasing a joint statement that reads, quote, quote, we are filing a lawsuit today to protect our First Amendment rights and defend the principle that the government does not decide what the press reports or publishes. The suit takes aim at Trump's brazen defiance of the Constitution, reading in part, quote, the Constitution does not allow a president to deprive the press of their First Amendment rights based solely on his dislike of the content, emphasizing, quote, this ban could not be a more direct assault on the First Amendment, nor a more blatant violation of our most fundamental constitutional principles.

1:55And lawmakers are slamming Trump over this move. People are standing up to him. And so what is he doing? He's throwing a tantrum in this way. If you don't say what I want you to say, then I'm going to take away your credentials. Clearly a First Amendment violation. This president has no regard for the First Amendment. He's going after reporters and this ban just doubles down. He wants to get rid of the scoreboard that is keeping track and keeping him accountable to the American people in the form of the press. You don't need to be a constitutional lawyer to understand the plain text of the First Amendment, which reads, quote, Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech or of the press.

2:42Trump's so-called ban does both of those things. And he admitted it on camera in the Oval Office, which the lawsuit notes. Quote, the president literally referred to the ban as the ban on the free press. And you can see and judge that moment for yourself right here. I'm trying to find out. What does that mean in practice? Are you taking away their baggers? Are you banning them from the pool? Are you banning them for the Oval Office? What does that mean? I sure don't know what that means. What do you envision the ban for the water? Oh, the ban on the free press, right? A very simple ban. I don't want him in my office.

3:21I don't want him here. I would say the ban would go as far as you can. Very telling how many times he uses the words I and my as he speaks from the people's house. It's hard to find a real modern precedent for this level of disdain for the press. Beyond Trump himself, of course. Even former President Barack Obama is having trouble wrapping his head around all of this. there was just an announcement that the White House decided, you know what, CNN, MSN, MSNOW, you just can't come to the White House press briefings anymore because you're giving the current president unfavorable coverage. I'm trying to think what would have happened if I had said, you know what, Fox News, you're out of here.

4:09It's unimaginable. And joining me now to break all of this down is James Sample, constitutional law professor at Hofstra University and Basil Smichel, professor at Columbia University School of Professional Studies and an MS now political analyst. It is great to have both of you guys here at the table with me, my friends. James, I want to start with you and just have you walk me through the possible legal claims here, because we've spoken before a bit about this. And my understanding is that there are actually several things wrong here. Oh, absolutely. There are several things wrong. And if you if you track the complaint, the complaint actually doesn't start with the First Amendment.

4:46The complaint starts with the due process claim, which is to say that when the reporters and photographers for the three networks, the journalists who were denied their credentials on Saturday morning were denied their credentials, the true social post from Friday became government action on Saturday. And when it became government action, that the challenge to what the government had done was right. And the due process is you are entitled once you have a liberty interest, once you have a right attached to and the government tries to take it away to notice and an opportunity to be heard. You're also entitled to not have it be arbitrary and capricious.

5:21And so, as you know, the producer for MSNOW was able to get through security on Saturday morning, which just speaks to the ad hoc and sort of extemporaneous improvisation that occurred here. That is the definition of arbitrary and capricious. And then on top of that, you can layer the First Amendment. And you are absolutely right. You do not need to be steeped in constitutional law to understand that the definition of a First Amendment violation is when you engage in viewpoint discrimination. nation. You cannot pick and choose as president who your press corps is. Well, Basil, to this point around improvisation, the Wall Street Journal is reporting that it was Trump's aide, Natalie Harp, a lot of conversation about her lately, who showed him clips of anchors on the cable network MSNOW criticizing his administration.

6:08Hours later, Trump banned the network and two other news organizations from the White House. What does that indicate to you about what is going on in this White House right now and what this is all fundamentally about? And by the way, we do not know who it was, which one of us, what Chiron he saw. We don't know yet, though we are trying to find out. What does it mean? It means he has an unbelievable thin skin. And that he is so afraid of the negative, what he would call negative attention, that even though it's meant for disagreements to be settled in competing evidence, he just wants to get rid of the voices that compete with him.

6:46Plain and simple. And he's extending or trying to push his presidential authority to do it as fast as he can, as best he can. But the reality is he hasn't thought this through because for a person that loves attention, he is telling people who cover him, don't pay attention to me. I'm not going to have you cover me. At a time when Republicans who are running and need his support, they're going to be able, they're going to be campaigning, wanting his sort of blessing and his imprimatur on their races. what happens when his supporters can't see him being presidential, can't see him signing bills in the Oval Office, at press events?

7:24He will be nowhere. He hasn't thought this through. So this is a knee-jerk reaction to saying, you know what, I just don't want them in front of me. But this is exactly what the press is for. It's not for the times where you agree. It's for the times when you disagree. There was this somewhat comical moment earlier today, and I can't show it to you because it's recorded by people who are not, in solidarity and not taking part in this pool right now with us, where the president is trying to make an announcement and talk to the cameras, but you literally cannot hear anything he's saying. You can look it up on the internet for yourself.

7:58But to that point, I do wonder if at some point before this works its way through the court, as it will, he will start to regret his decision here because he does like to have the things that he says. He does love to talk to the press. He loves to stop in front of the cameras seven days a week and have something to say to the public. And he might not be able to really get much of that. I want to know from you, James, the extent to which the president's own behavior and words will factor in this lawsuit. I already played that clip of him saying, oh, the ban on the free press. If I were an attorney, I am not.

8:31It feels like one of the first things I would write down to present as my evidence in court. Like that's what he called it himself. You would be an amazing attorney, but I think you're doing all right in your day job. The answer to your question, Antonia, the best witness for CNN, for MS Now and for Politico is Donald Trump. And every single time he speaks, every single time he posts, the case for the challengers to what he's done gets stronger. So just a couple examples. Because they're fake news, quote, purposely negative stories. I don't have to let them into my, the people's house, right? This is, he is the best witness for the challengers to himself.

9:15He is the best witness against Donald Trump and his own words will sink his case. This case is going to move on a rapid, rapid track. The judge it was assigned to is actually the judge who was the same judge in the District of Columbia who dealt with the Jim Acosta matter. That was over in a matter of days. The reason is that this is as fundamental, as clear-cut as law gets. There's a lot of gray in the law. There is a lot of room for subjective interpretation in close calls. This is a slam dunk. What do you think this might do to some of these smaller newsrooms and independent journalists who also depend on access to the White House for their work?

9:53Because we have the resources to fight back. We are collaborating with other newsrooms that have the resources and the people to fight back. If you're an independent journalist who is on the White House beat, what might you take from this, knowing that you may not have an attorney who has your back if something like this were to happen again? And Trump has himself said other fake news media to follow. Well, there are two things. One, I think this is part of a larger strategy of fear. I always say fear is the currency. So the chilling effect is maybe it will discourage a lot of outlets for trying to cover him, trying to tell the truth.

10:27But my guess is that there are folks that are so desirous of wanting to get to the truth and wanting to be able to speak to the public, even outside of having the larger infrastructure, that they're going to continue to work and do the job they do. On the other side, we should acknowledge there is a substantial MAGA ecosystem that still will cover him. But the problem for them is that that MAGA environment that is so strong for him is actually shrinking in many ways. And so, again, I go back to the earlier point that he won't have this sort of larger platform where he can show himself being presidential.

11:08And then two quick points. One about a former president, FDR, because a lot of the current coverage that we see in the pool environment we see comes from FDR expanding press access at a time when he was also expanding the bureaucracy through the New Deal and so on. I raise that because to me, if I zoom out, this is also an attack on expertise, not just in terms of the press, but also in other parts of government where the press was reporting on what's going on. So all of what Doge was doing and all of what he has done through his appointees is get rid of people with expertise who can actually speak truth to power, even within agencies.

11:48There you have it. Basil Smichel, James Sample. It's always so good to talk to the two of you. Thank you. And coming up, the bizarre new plan to equip that so-called arc de Trump with snipers and drones. Plus, we're going to talk to an expert on that disturbing new ice-involved shooting in Texas. But first, former Washington Post editor Marty Baron on the fight for freedom of the press. We're back in just 90 seconds.

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13:52Donald Trump's attacks on the free press are not new, but his ban on three prominent media outlets, including MSNOW, from the White House, is an unprecedented new step in his fight with the media. In the lawsuit filed by CNN, MSNOW, and Politico, the news organizations refer to the chilling effect this move could have on other reporters, writing, quote, the president banned CNN, MSNOW, and Politico for the improper purpose of retaliating against them for past news coverage because he deemed it negative and chilling future reporting about him. Trump, famously preoccupied with his public image, has lamented what he sees as negative coverage in the past.

14:34The newscasts are against me. They'll take a great story and they'll make it bad. See, I think that's really illegal, personally. Here's the thing. Fact check. It's not illegal. It is actually a constitutional right, not to mention. It's not us reporters who decided to launch a costly war with Iran or to kick off a trade war that has been eating into Americans' household budgets. Or, you know, to create an anti-weaponization fund that sought to use taxpayers' dollars to compensate, in some cases, rioters who stormed our Capitol and committed treason on January 6th. It is our job, though, to cover those events when they happen, whether he likes the headline or not.

15:17And now news organizations across the country are rallying to support these newsrooms. The New York Times reporting, condemnation from leading news outlets was nearly universal, including from many that compete directly with CNN, MSNOW and Politico. The Times, The Washington Post and press associations also speaking out, calling the ban an attack on free speech. Remaining members of the White House TV press pool say they would halt TV coverage of presidential events in an act of solidarity over the White House's ban. And joining me now is the esteemed veteran journalist, Marty Barron, former executive editor for The Washington Post.

15:54Marty, thank you so much for joining me tonight. I want to begin with what your initial reaction was to Trump's announcement and then to actually the experience over the weekend of seeing reporters try to swipe into the White House and find they were denied. Right. Well, it was an outrageous act, of course, and it's part of a broader set of attacks on the independent media and free expression generally by this administration. You know, you have to go back and look at his private lawsuits, seeking billions of dollars and using the power of the presidency to extract settlement that line his own pockets.

16:27Grand jury subpoenas of journalists to force them to reveal their sources. A raid on a Washington Post reporter's house, confiscating all of her digital devices. You know, using the power of the FCC to threaten the rescission of station licenses for the major networks. This is an escalation of all that. Of course, those previous measures were outrageous. This is the most outrageous so far. So as I mentioned a moment ago, it is the TV press pool right now that is in solidarity and not planning to release video to be following Trump in that way. Do you think that print reporters should join that movement, should join that effort?

17:12Well, I think this is a very tough call. Clearly, there's no TV pool coverage of him today. It's an indefinite suspension. Let's see what happens tomorrow. But it appears to be indefinite. So we'll see how long that goes on. I don't think that the legitimate reporters, legitimate journalists should just walk out on the president of the United States. He is the most powerful person in the world. Everything he says, everything he does has an enormous impact, not just here in the United States, but around the world. I think it's really important that there be quality journalists who ask him the tough questions that are necessary at times like these, when we're at war, when he's imposing tariffs, when people are suffering from escalating prices on gasoline and lots of other things.

17:55Somebody needs to be there to ask him tough questions. And you can't just cede that territory, just create a vacuum where the only people who are talking to him are his stenographers and his propagandists. As a journalist, I'm curious what you make of what we've seen this administration release over the course of the last several hours. They've been sharing these videos and sort of graphics online, encouraging people to download their own app and streaming service to get information directly from the president, sort of hinting that there's some form of state run media to come. What do you think of that?

18:29Well, this administration already had pretty much state run media. It already had essentially a propaganda outlet working out of the White House, putting up videos with its own website and its own video and you name it. So it's unsurprising to me that they would do that. But I think going to get the audience that they have through the networks and through other media outlets. And they're not going to intimidate the press at all. I think the press will be more determined than ever to dig into the things that they ought to be digging into, fulfilling their mission under the First Amendment, which is to, as James Madison put it, when he defended the idea of the First Amendment, he talked about freely examining public characters and measures.

19:12Focus on that word free and focus on that word examine is to look beneath the surface, behind the curtain, not just to be this administration's propagandist. So I think the press will be as determined as ever, just as they were at the Pentagon, by the way, when they were forced out of the Pentagon. They continue to do energetic coverage of the war in Iran and a lot of other things happening within the Defense Department. I agree that we're going to continue with our energetic coverage, with our deep reporting. At the same time, this White House is trying to make the argument that this doesn't fundamentally harm our ability to do our reporting.

19:49that, you know, that we're just not welcome in this space of his, but we are still welcome to go publish our stories and do our work. Can you explain for people why having access to the White House fundamentally matters? Well, first of all, it's not theirs to control. As you noted before, it's the People's House. Trump is just there temporarily. So he's like, he's not even a He's not even paying rent. He's just there because he was elected. But it belongs to the people. And when you invite other outlets in, you can't just you can't discriminate based on a viewpoint. That is the Constitution. And then reporters do important work there.

20:30They talk to officials. They talk to people in the press office. They talk to other government officials who are outside of the press office. It's very important for them to be there to do their work. That's not all the work they do. They do a lot of work, of course, outside of the White House grounds. But it's important to be where the news is happening. That's fundamental to the idea of journalism is you go where the news is happening. Marty Barron, thank you, as always. Thank you. Later, protests after an ice shooting in Texas. Also ahead, new signs House Republicans are nervous about the midterms.

21:06I'm going to talk to a Democratic candidate trying to flip a red seat. Plus, Trump's vanity project obsession gets even more bizarre. And famed GOP power player Karl Rove mocks Trump. Total loser. He's a total loser. Nobody's ever seen anything like this. A sir, total stone-clothed loser.

21:58He called you, and I am quoting, a stone-cold loser, because you have announced that you will be backing... Oh, so terrible. Stone-cold loser. Total, total loser. He's a total loser. Nobody's ever seen anything like this. A sir, total stone-cold loser.

22:22diesel is hitting record highs 650 per gallon which will also drive up prices for all sorts of other items and trump is responding to all this in ways that range from disturbing to cartoonish posting about iran quote my question is if and when do i blow the entire nation up and separately saying that he wants to put drones snipers and ammunition inside the arch that he's trying to build at the entrance to Arlington National Cemetery. Why would you need or want that sort of thing in downtown D.C., minutes from the Pentagon? Well, it's not clear, but it starts to evoke the cartoonish supervillainy from an Austin Powers movie.

23:03You know, I have one simple request, and that is to have sharks with fricking laser beans attached to their heads. Can you remind me what I pay you people for? Honestly, throw me a bone here. What do we have? Seabass.

23:24Right. They are mutated, Seabass. Really? Are they ill-tempered? Absolutely. That's a start. And joining me now is Christina Greer, political science professor at Fordham University. Christina, it's good to see you. You know, I guess I'll start with, is it a coincidence that precisely as the losses just keep piling up for this president, the ideas are getting weirder and weirder and more dangerous? Yeah, Antonio, I would say more dangerous indeed. You know, we know that the president is losing on so many fronts. You know, he's losing in Iran. Our European allies are not following us into this ill thought out and, you know, nondescript endeavor.

24:13We know that the region is destabilized. As you mentioned, diesel prices are going up. And for a lot of Americans who sort of say, oh, I don't like the news. It's too negative. I don't really, you know, pay attention to what's going on in Washington, D.C. It doesn't really affect me. You know, all of the products that we use on a daily basis are brought to us by diesel trucks. So, you know, it's not just gas in your own tank. It's how we actually get our goods and services. And this is why things at the grocery store are more expensive across the nation. And so many Americans, even upper middle class Americans, are feeling the squeeze and not just sort of the working poor.

24:50And so it's affecting so many folks who were sitting on the sidelines. And I think, Antonio, we have to make a clear line between not just Donald Trump's erratic policies, but his attempts to decrease or possibly eliminate so many people from voting on November 3rd because he knows that Democrats are going to come out in droves. He knows that independents are going to vote for Democratic candidates. And now we're even seeing Republicans saying that they're going to vote for the Democratic candidates. So he needs to make sure that he limits people's ability to actually participate in their democracy because he knows that his policies can't do it.