New Heat on Trump as MAGA 'Rebellion' Intensifies

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0:44Because your day doesn't stop. Kraft Mac & Cheese Power Mac. Find it at your favorite retailer. The best thing ever keeps getting better. Welcome to The Beat. I'm Melissa Murray in for Ari Melber. We start tonight with the scandal consuming the Trump White House as MAGA leaders, top Democrats, and nonpartisan journalists demand answers about the Epstein files. This is new and dangerous territory for Donald Trump. As for the first time, he appears unable to control his own base. This morning, D.C. woke up to headlines like these. MAGA revolt. Trump discovers MAGA has no off switch. Trump and MAGA are no longer the same thing.

1:26Images of MAGA supporters literally burning their red MAGA hats are going viral online. And all of this comes a day after Trump berated Republicans as, quote, stupid and foolish for wanting more information about the disgraced financier who died by suicide while in federal custody. Today, Trump's secretary was bombarded with Epstein questions at this press conference. Does the president believe that justice has been served in the Epstein case? Does he have knowledge or an understanding of what is in the files related to Epstein that have not been released? Has the White House been directly in touch with some of the MAGA influencers that are still not satisfied?

2:05The president said that he floated the idea of a special cross-feeder in the Epstein case. Can you confirm that? Do you know what the president's reaction was to Mike Johnson saying that he wants additional files released? the Epstein files. Carol, and one more. Elizabeth, comment. Will the president consider pardoning Jillian Maxwell if the Epstein case is a hoax? Was there a conversation with Mike Johnson about that following his comments? There's been a lot of discussion about the Epstein files, the president's comments yesterday calling it a hoax. Can you clarify which part of the Epstein hoax is the hoax part?

2:39An absolute barrage of questions with no relief in sight. Politico writes this, quote, Trump is like a magician who has locked himself in a straitjacket only to find that he's lost his ability to maneuver out of it and finds his audience turning on him. Among those now speaking out are Trump's former vice president, Mike Pence, as well as top GOP senators and the MAGA brocasters. I think the time has come for the administration to release all of the files regarding Jeffrey Epstein's investigation and prosecution. Maybe I'm just getting old and forgetting things, but I could have sworn that we had people campaigning.

3:21And if I get elected, we're going to release the files. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Release the damn files. Get over it. It's the administration and their handling of this, which is why everyone's talking about it. It didn't have to be handled this way. It's been abysmal. I am trying to get you to take the political gun out of your mouth. You already blown both your feet off. and now you got it stubbed in your mouth. I'm like, would you please take that out of your mouth? You're like, shut up. Don't talk about it. You have put the gun in your mouth and ours collectively. Stop it. Stop it.

4:03And in a rare display of bipartisanship, top Democrats have also gotten in on the act, hammering Trump on the Epstein question. For years, Donald Trump and the MAGA movement have railed on about the Epstein files, but now a complete reversal. Trump is straight up gaslighting the American public. The president had run on a campaign with a promise to expose the Epstein files. Now he and the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, say, nope, nothing to investigate. When it comes to Epstein and sex trafficking, all these claims are just ludicrous. Amid these calls for greater transparency, there's also news scrutiny on an unexplained move from the Trump DOJ.

4:52Maureen Comey, the daughter of former FBI Director James Comey, was, until recently, a longtime federal prosecutor who worked on a number of high-profile cases, including the prosecution of Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein's associate. This week, Trump's DOJ fired her. Critics say it appears to be an effort to intimidate perceived enemies. Today, in a farewell email to her colleagues, Comey said that the DOJ letter informing her of her termination provided no reason for her discharge. In the email, which MSNBC has obtained, Comey issued a sharp warning to her colleagues in the Southern District of New York, saying, quote, if a career prosecutor can be fired without reason, fear may seep into the decisions of those who remain.

5:37Do not let that happen. Fear is the tool of a tyrant wielded to suppress independent thought. Instead of fear, let this moment fuel the fire that already burns at the heart of this place, a fire of righteous indignation and abuses of power, of commitment to seek justice for victims, of dedication to truth above all else. And that is where we start tonight. Donald Trump under fire from the MAGA base amid broader warnings about a presidential power grab. Joining me now is Barrett Berger, a former federal prosecutor from the Southern District of New York, and Aisha Mills, political strategist and former resident fellow at Harvard's Kennedy School of Politics.

6:18Aisha, you saw Donald Trump's press secretary face with a barrage of questions over the Epstein files. Why can't Donald Trump figure out how to defuse this bomb? Because Donald Trump doesn't want to. I mean, here's the thing. I just want to acknowledge for everybody who's watching this that we have literally been on like a week and a half distraction from what's really going on in America right now. Donald Trump is gutting the government. They literally just rescinded nine billion dollars in foreign aid. They're trying to shut down public broadcasting, they're taking Medicare from people, Medicaid from people.

6:50And here's where we are, is we're talking about this. We know that Donald Trump doesn't actually care about the victims, about those poor girls who are human trafficked. I think right now we need to be focusing on actually the victims of this and trying to get justice for this. And that's not something that Donald Trump is ever going to talk about. I don't disagree, but he is losing his base over this. There are folks in the MAGA faithful who are angry and they are bang for blood. Barrett, Do you think the DOJ actually has more information than they're letting on here and that there's something to these calls for transparency?

7:23Well, I'm sure the DOJ has, I mean, thousands and thousands of pages of information that they produced in Discovery. But the problem is not all information is sufficient to be released to the public. I mean, here you're going to have hours and hours of child pornography that was captured on these recordings. You're going to have information that identifies victim, that gives personal stuff about them. You're going to have information that was gained through judicial process, like a grand jury, that simply cannot be disclosed according to law. So I think the big problem we have here is one of an explanation, explaining exactly why certain things can't be released, what the basis is.

8:01It may not satisfy people who've really had their hearts set on getting their hands on this, but just because they can't see it doesn't mean they should. Well, that's a great question, Aisha. So there's a lot of information here for lots of different reasons. Much of it likely cannot be released. But we are seeing people online burning their MAGA hats. And these are people who are deeply with the president. It seems like they would be receptive to an explanation, any explanation from this man whom they revere. Why won't this just go away? Why can't they give the explanation? Well, you know, listen, I think that Donald Trump, well, we all know, actually, let me not, you know, say I think Donald Trump is guilty of a variety of things and hasn't been held accountable for them, period.

8:43What his base does and our distraction with that is literally that. What I'm interested in, be it Republican or be it Democrat, is why isn't anybody talking about the fact that if they were so riled up about this Epstein case and getting justice for these victims, why is Donald Trump defunding literally just completely dismantled the Violence Against Women Act and completely defunded all support for people who have been who have been trafficked for human trafficking? There's so much that could actually happen that would be with regards to policy that would actually support and protect people that we could be talking about.

9:15And right now it just feels more like a political circus that I don't think is going anywhere. So Barrett, this is a political circus and actually doesn't feel like Donald Trump is necessarily in the middle of it. The one person who does seem to be getting the brunt of all of this is Attorney General Pamela Jo Bondi. How much trouble is she in from this base that's calling for her ouster? I mean, seemingly a lot. I mean, it seems like she still has the support of the president. But as we know, you have the support of the president until you don't. And right. I mean, too anxious. But like the fact that anyone who actually cares about protecting victims and standing up for them and doing something about sex trafficking, the person who cared the most about doing that was the person they just fired.

9:58Oof. Maureen Comey, more than anyone else, was somebody who not only, you know, talked the talk of wanting to protect victims, but spent the last decade doing the hard work to do that. Not just in the Epstein case, but as we just saw over the last two months in the Combs case. This is somebody who's dedicated— This is the P. Diddy trial. Correct. Yeah. So this is somebody who has just dedicated her career to standing up for victims, to doing the work that people are talking about, and the fact that they've fired her while also saying we care about this is just wildly inconsistent. And keep in mind that this president has spent most of his life trying to avoid accountability for the things that he's done against women.

10:34So here we are. Well, let's go to Maureen Comey Barrett. What do you make of this? I mean, this seems to be a very unusual step, an unorthodox step to fire a career prosecutor who has never had any complaints about her performance, but she also happens to be the daughter of someone who has, even in the last couple of months, been the target of a lot of ribbing from the Trump loyalists. What's actually going on here? I mean, on one hand, it seems very consistent with the pattern that we've seen. We've seen plenty of not only DOJ folks being fired, but, you know, across the government, we've seen sort of these wide set.

11:16This one's different because it is so individually targeted to her with really no connection to her actual work as a prosecutor, at least what we know so far. I mean, it seems like from her resignation email, this was totally unexpected from her. And the letter gives no explanation other than, you know, citing to Article 2, which is just, you know, the executive's, I guess, authority to do so, but really gives no analysis or rationale for this. This is really, it feels just so personal. And as I said before, it just, to me, strikes me more because of her last name than anything that she has ever done as a prosecutor.

11:54As a former prosecutor yourself, what do you make of her farewell email to her colleagues at the Southern District of New York? It was a wonderful email. It was, you know, very righteous, talked a lot about what everyone, not just in the Southern District, but I think throughout U.S. attorney's offices in the country, what we sort of embodied, which was this idea of prosecuting cases without fear or favor. And the Southern District, that has been its credo for a long time, the sovereign district of New York. Correct. And you need that ethos because what you're doing is prosecuting people regardless of their political party.

12:27You know, the Southern District of New York has brought cases against Republicans as often as it's brought cases against Democrats. It's brought cases against powerful people and people with no power. So they really live up to this credo. And the fact that she cites that and really seems to be saying this is now in jeopardy is pretty striking. All right, Aisha, let's figure all of this out. I know that you think this is a huge distraction. I think it likely is a big distraction from some of the other things that are going on, Article 2 unchecked and unabashed here. But how much steam do you think is left in this story?

12:59And what does it mean for Donald Trump and this base that has literally followed him to the ends of the earth at this point? Listen, we just heard from Congressman Garcia, Robert Garcia, who was on the previous hour and is doing all that he can as the ranking on oversight committee to get some accountability. Right. The Democrats are trying to figure out how to utilize this moment to continue to remind the American public that this guy is not necessarily, you know, up to snuff in the way that he manages all things. I, though, you know, it's not that long ago that we watched the impeachment trial happen or trials, plural.

13:31And we saw all of this brought out in front of the American public and his base didn't run necessarily then. Right. And so I have to say that I am not that optimistic that this conversation is going to lead to any transformation or change or restriction around the bounds of Donald Trump to continue to do harm to this nation. I just don't think that the Democrats have the juice to make anything happen. And I don't think that his base officially falls out when it comes to the midterms in the way that we all prayed that they would. All right, we will leave it there. Thank you, ladies. Coming up, we will go live to Capitol Hill as Republicans try to gut funding for NPR and PBS.

14:10And later, our interview with the head of Planned Parenthood about their fight with the Trump administration over women's health and women's rights. But first, how MAGA is literally laughing at Trump's Epstein mess. We're back in just 90 seconds.

14:29Actually, there was supposed to be an Epstein joke here, but as it got deleted, must have probably deleted itself, right? Probably never existed, actually. Let's move on as a country and ignore that.

14:47That was comedian Shane Gillis joking about Trump and the Epstein files, But some in Donald Trump's space think this is no laughing matter. Let's take a listen to some of the phone calls coming into right-wing radio shows. We have a president who tells us to move on from Epstein because it doesn't matter. And yet he still talks about the 2020 election fraud. He talks about the Hunter Biden laptop. This is a sad, sad day in America. This cemented permanent deep state power. What about justice for these young ladies who were trafficking? What about their justice? These Epstein files, we were told that they was going to be released.

15:30And the fact that it's suddenly gone away and he's trying to gaslight us is like a punch in the gut to MAGA. I'm concerned about being able to trust Donald Trump to keep his word. That's a snapshot of Right Ring Radio, a core outlet for the MAGA base. And new polling from Reuters shows that 62 % of Republicans say that the Trump administration is concealing information about Epstein's clients. And among all Americans, that number jumps to a staggering 70%. Joining me now to discuss it all is Margaret Carlson, the editor-at-large at Semaphore and a longtime Washington, D.C. observer. Margaret, what do you make of the reaction here from Trump supporters like those radio callers?

16:16Well, they're very used to conspiracy theories. They've been fed them a long time, and that's how Trump started out. He started out as somebody who believed that Obama wasn't born here, and he carried Bertha all the way to the White House. So they're trained to believe this sort of thing. And then when it's taken away, they get mad. And now Trump's mad at them for getting mad at him. And he doesn't get mad at them that often. And that's what makes me curious. Why is he this mad about that? I don't know. It's not going to be because there's something about Hunter Biden's laptop in there. there's something in the Epstein files that he's afraid of.

17:03He doesn't want all of it out there. And, you know, he's always denied his friendship with Epstein saying, oh, well, we fell out. But wow, before they fell out, they were really pretty good friends. They spent a lot of time together, each other's houses. Somewhere it came out that in Jeffrey Epstein's phone book, he had 14 numbers for Donald Trump. My daughter only has two numbers for me. So 14 seems a little excessive for somebody that you're not that good a friend with. And it just stirs up a lot of stuff that I don't, I'm not sure it's a distraction. I mean, the people are pretty aware of what happened with the beautiful Bill and how it's actually his followers, they're going to suffer from it.

17:53But this sort of thing looks like a betrayal to them. And it's brought out in him, you know, that calling them stupid. Isn't that I haven't heard that, Melissa. I haven't heard him turn on his followers so personally. Have you? I haven't. I mean, it actually raises an important question. You're right. It's very rare to see him angry at his base, but it's also incredibly rare to see his base angry at him. So how worried should the administration be about these polls that show that most Republicans think that the government is actually concealing information from the public? Well, it's it's damaging.

18:32I think they think that, you know, they they swallow some things like the animals, the immigrants eating pets in Ohio without question, but that everything's been released in Epstein. they're not accepting. And I'm curious why, how much is right-wing radio stirring this up and why? And your prior guest said, maybe it is a distraction because they're, you know, they're losing Medicaid and there are more measles in the country and immigrants are being swept away to Alcatraz. I mean, there are all kinds of other things that they could be worried about. And some of them are. They're beginning to be worried about the way he's rounding on immigrants.

19:21But here's this thing over here that's attracting so much attention. And in part, you know, don't you find that if you tell your kids, oh, no, you can't have that, then they really want that thing. And Trump said, you can't have the Epstein files. You have everything there is to have. And now they really, really want it. And he's making, you know, he's making enemies among his base. It's, I mean, burning a MAGA hat, one of the comedians said, well, remind them to take it off their heads. But it's pretty, it's pretty out there to be burning a MAGA hat, which is like a shrine to Donald Trump on the top of your head.

20:02Well, that is not the only thing late night comics have to say about all this. Let's take a listen at some other clips. It's boring! Oh, yeah, what's interesting about a global pedophile sex ring that involves the richest people in the world that I might be covering up in my own involvement in? Stu's alert! Sex, cults, and murder are famously dull. That's why they call that movie Eyes Wide Shut, because everyone was asleep. Wouldn't you guys rather hear about golf?

20:33Margaret, we have just a few moments left, but I just want to get your take on this. How much power does this story have beyond MAGA? Is this just going to be the stuff of late night punchlines or does it have legs? You know, there was a piece in the Washington Post op ed section today that said Democrats really don't have to do very much about this, that it has innate interest of people on both sides, but in particular, the MAGA side. And so it will have a life of its own. Democrats don't need to stoke it. We don't know what's in the files and maybe nothing else is going to come out. But in the meantime, Trump's behavior is coming out in a way that is unappealing to his base.

21:16And that could have some long lasting ramifications. All right, Margaret Carlson, thank you so much for those insights. Later in the show. Nope. Later in the show, a pregnant American woman is speaking out after ICE detained her husband as he tried to pick up his daughter. Also tonight, the president of Planned Parenthood will be here live on, and she will be talking about the group's new lawsuit against the Trump administration. But up first, I talked to a top House Democrat on the crisis that Donald Trump is facing over the Epstein files. It's up next. What is the Trump administration hiding from the American people?

21:55That's the question that needs to be answered.

22:04Trump allies on Capitol Hill are doing their part to keep the Epstein files under wraps. This week, House Republicans blocked two efforts by Democrats to force a debate on releasing the files. Meanwhile, Speaker Mike Johnson is trying to backpedal from his apparent break with Donald Trump on the Epstein case. Johnson first called for the files to be released and then later said he was misinterpreted. I'm for transparency. It's a very delicate subject, but we should put everything out there and let the people decide it. I have been misquoted and misrepresented on all that. Go watch the interview I did with Benny Johnson.

22:43I'm pretty clear. I mean, we're for transparency. I'm saying the same thing. I'm satisfaction. All of this is leading to what we showed you earlier. Trump supporters literally burning their MAGA hats and posting the videos of them doing so online. Meanwhile, while most of us were sleeping, Senate Republicans passed a bill to claw back over$9 billion in funding that they had already approved. The bill rescinds$8 billion in foreign aid and$1 billion in funds for NPR and PBS. To break it all down is Pennsylvania Congresswoman Madeline Dean. Congresswoman Dean, thanks for coming here and talking with us about this tonight.

23:24It seems like the House Republicans are pretty much willing to follow this president's lead on the Epstein files. The one rare exception seems to be GOP Congressman Thomas Massey, who is pushing for a full House vote to demand the release of the files. Do you think this play will work and the files will be released? Good to be with you, Melissa. Thank you for having me. And I don't know if that will work, but you see that it's creating quite an uproar here on Capitol Hill. even an uproar in terms of what is our schedule. Can we continue our work? Will we be here next week? I'm newly on the Appropriations Committee.

24:01We've got a lot of work to do. We have markups next week. We're in a markup right now, all day today. What baffles me the most, and I'm beginning to understand it from your reporting and other reports that I'm reading, is how this has turned so badly on the president that his supporters are grievously upset. But I think about it. I was just looking at that barbecue of the hats, Trump MAGA hats. They have been fed a barbecue of conspiracy theories. They have been told to believe the very worst of every story, whether or not it is true. And don't get me wrong. The Epstein affair is grotesque. He was an extraordinarily grotesque predator, criminal predator.

24:48How long did that go on? Who knew about it? How broad were those circles? So I think it's really simple. I'm not down a rabbit hole. It is either. There is information there about his manner of death that they are not fully revealing, not being transparent about. And there is more information about client files and other, whether it's videotaped evidence. Why I think it should come forward is they said they had it. Pam Bondi in February said it was sitting on her desk. Reveal it. Otherwise, they were lying then or they're lying now. Which is it? And in the meantime, they've got a very upset base.