New Protests After ICE Shootings

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0:36As an effective and affordable online learning program, IXL covers math, language arts, science, and social studies using interactive practice problems for kids from pre-K to 12th grade. Listeners can get an exclusive 20 % off IXL membership when they sign up today at IXL.com slash 20. Visit ixl.com slash 20 to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Welcome to The Beat. Tonight we can report there are now 3 ,000 federal agents in Minneapolis. Are they patrolling? Are they occupying? Are they escalating? That is one of the big questions facing this show of force by the Trump administration.

1:14I'll remind you that Minneapolis is a smaller city, one of those cities where you've heard the name. It has a big brand name. But did you know it's only about 430 ,000 people there? So this show of force alone means it's one officer for every 140 residents at a time where whatever is happening in the street has been a response to the feds, not some ongoing public demonstrations. It's a high rate of federal oversight. Recent violence has come from Trump's federal government on some days, not from the streets that the agents say they are patrolling or protecting. This is your country right now. People ask, when will the crisis hit?

1:51When is the constitutional crisis? What are we going to do? Was it Jimmy Kimmel? Was it indicting this or that person? Was it shooting this woman to death? Or is it this militarized situation? Many are sounding the alarm. Overnight, violent crashes between federal agents and protesters in Minneapolis. President Trump is threatening, threatening to send federal troops to Minnesota. The air here is so tense and heavy. In Minnesota, another shooting by an ICE agent just one week after the death of Renee Good. Ice roaming. There's 2 ,500 agents, maybe more here in Minneapolis. Crowds of protesters gathered at the scene.

2:30As you see here, ICE tried to keep them at bay with tear gas and pepper spray. However bad the news is making you think Minneapolis is right now, it's worse. That's just a sampling of what you can get from the ground. There are protesters, though, there and around the country who are clearly not going to be intimidated. And that's not rhetoric. When American citizens, when a mother of three is summarily executed and shot in the face, and everyone knows about it in that town for sure, the next wave of protests of people walking, as with other protests throughout the rich history of this country, bad and good, tough and easy, it involves people knowing there is some risk they face and they're standing up anyway.

3:15Now, Trump is now responding by repeating a threat he has made before, saying maybe he would invoke the Insurrection Act. I'll remind everyone that hasn't been used without a direct consent and collaboration of a sitting governor in the state where it would be deployed for over 60 years. Now, under law, when invoked properly, it does give a president extra emergency powers. In this case, it would be to do what Trump has been partly stopped from doing elsewhere, deploying the military inside the United States to patrol you, the American people, taxpayers paying to have the military walk around like we're some other type of country for potentially even longer periods.

3:55As for the current governor of that state who is not interested in consenting to any collaborative such deployment, here is Governor Walz. Donald Trump wants this chaos He wants confusion And yes, he wants more violence on our streets We cannot give him what he wants We can, we must protest loudly Urgently, but also peacefully That's what the sitting governor is saying And remember, that sitting governor happens to, of course, be Part of the ticket that lost to Donald Trump And so, faced with the federal government killing people and then lying about it and saying it's okay, faced with a political movement on the right that not every Republican and not every Republican member of Congress, but many claiming these powers and telling everyone to shut up and sit down, what is the opposition?

4:53The opposition, both politically, because as I mentioned, they lost in 24 and in this state is saying, please just be peaceful. He's asking the public who just watched this mother killed to find in them the discipline and the law-abiding peaceful nature that the government itself is not exhibiting. And yet, in our history, we know we've seen that kind of restraint before, from civil rights movements and from other protesters, who have also faced violence with peace. And, whatever your ideology or politics history shows in the long run, those kind of movements can work, even in the face of the illegal, sometimes deadly use of force.

5:40And the Trump administration simply does not have actual credibility on these issues right now after the spate of false claims made in the wake of that ICE agent killing a citizen last week. Local officials have made it clear they don't think the federal troops being added to these cities generally increases safety. And when I say the administration's lost credibility, that's a separate question from whether the ICE agent committed a crime or a murder in killing Renee Good. In our system of laws, that has to be investigated and pursued. we'll see if there is a fair investigation, but no one can fairly or honestly say whether that was a crime because during the rule of law, you have to play that out.

6:16It's only that the administration has insisted it definitely was not a crime without even gathering the facts or pretending to. We're seeing an escalation increasingly here that does come from the feds and it is caught on camera. Officers tackling citizens in a target, pulling people by force out of their cars, intimidating protesters against a backdrop where it could be easy to forget, but Donald Trump has record low approval as he begins the second year of this term and faced with different types of accountability, whether that's kind of the soft indication of public protest or the hard stop he got from the courts for some efforts to use troops, which you can see now he's threatening to dial it up even more.

6:57But it's against that backdrop that he knows another check may be coming. He's not saying, hey, judge me by my record, keep the Republicans in office so we can have more of the same, more of this? Isn't this going well? He's not even saying that. I always try to give it to you straight. Here's what he's saying. When you win the presidency, you don't win the midterms. So kind of telling everyone what he's expecting, which is to lose in nine months. When you think of it, we shouldn't even have an election. That's what he told Reuters. This is another interview. If you've noticed, he's done a bunch.

7:35That's not his call, by the way. Elections are run by the individual states. The president doesn't get to announce whether they happen or not. When Trump has been on an interview blitz, Fox, New York Times, CBS, the Reuters one I just mentioned, which again appears to be the fact that whatever you think of Donald Trump's approach and style, however much you think he lies for his purposes, he also has some radar, some indicator of the truth. Because the truth is, he's unpopular. The truth is, a lot of measures suggest he and the Republicans are on track to potentially lose the midterms. And the truth is, all that Venezuela noise did not make him more popular.

8:11So he's trying to change what has been a lukewarm public reception to Venezuela and to what's going on right now and doing a ton of interviews and throwing a bunch of chum in the water while facing a backlash on ice that ranges from the streets where you might say, oh, well, liberals have gone out in the streets before, to independents like Jesse Ventura in Minnesota saying this is third world country stuff, all the way over to the very large audience for the MAGA podcast. We've told you they matter where people are saying, wait, they like Trump, they supported him, but what the heck are we doing?

8:47You don't want militarized people in the streets just roaming around, snatching people up, many of which turn out to actually be U.S. citizens that just don't have their papers on them? Are we really going to be the Gestapo? Where's your papers? Is that what we've come to? When your MAGA-allied friends threaten you with calling out your Gestapo tactics, and those are your friends, what does everybody else in the reality-based community here on Earth in Minnesota and a bunch of other normal Midwestern towns and real America think about what is happening to our country. That's where we begin tonight with the people in the streets on both sides of the equation.

9:30I want to bring in a very special guest, George Packer, staff writer at The Atlantic, the author of 10 books, most of them nonfiction. His new novel, though, is The Emergency. And Molly Jong-Fast, a contributing writer with The New York Times. Molly, it's easy to forget how unpopular the agenda is and how that fits into Trump turning up the heat. Yeah. And I think it's worth talking about for a minute. First of all, I was texting with Governor Walz today. He I think it's I think we should just pull back for a second. This is a this is a state that voted against him three times. This is the vice presidential candidate he ran against.

10:08And there and I just wondered why they were targeting Minnesota. And I think it has to do I mean, at least Governor Walz thinks this with that Nick Shirley video about the fraud allegations from 2022. Right. That that is why they sent ICE into the state, which is pretty preposterous if you think about it. You know, they're sending a force because of a YouTube video about a fraud in 2022 where numerous people were prosecuted and sent to jail. I mean, that just strikes me as nuts. And by the way, it is very unpopular. And supposedly, according to Quinnipiac, 82 percent of Americans have seen the video of the Rene Good killing.

10:54George? I mean, a president who perhaps made the final decision to capture and bring out Nicolas Maduro because he was pissed off that Maduro was dancing on TV in a way that seemed to be taunting Trump's threats, is going to make decisions based on a sense of loss of face or of a personal grudge. He doesn't like Governor Walz. He doesn't seem to like Minnesota. He doesn't like the Somali community in Minnesota. Let's send 3 ,000 federal officers there and provoke and see how they react. So, yeah, I don't think this is part of a particularly thought-out strategy of how to get to Stephen Miller's million-per-year deportations.

11:44But why not try Minneapolis because we don't like them and they don't like us? Yeah, and that is politics. And here's Trump. I mentioned in many interviews. Here he is talking to Hannity about bracing for a loss.

11:59If you go back a long way, the sitting president, whether it's Democrat or Republican, always loses the midterm. Even if they've done well, almost always, they always seem to lose the midterm. There's something down deep psychologically with the voters that they want maybe a check or something. You know, fact check, exaggerated. Bush won the midterms in 2002. And Clinton won second term midterms. Yes, in 98 because they were impeaching him. So more often than not, but it's not an iron rule. It seems to be his way of lowering expectations eight months out. Much to the chagrin of Republicans. Where does that fit in?

12:44Because everyone has these cartoonish views of Trump. He's only this, he's only that. Here, he's looking and going, I need to start pre-spinning my expected loss. I also think talking about canceling elections is trying to get people's eye off what he can do. As you said, it's not up to the president to decide whether we have an election. But what he can do is bring a lot of pressure to bear on local and state officials who have taken those offices since 2020 because the Republican Party was more assured of their loyalty in case of accusations of cheating or of rigging or some sort of shenanigans in the election.

13:25So my worry, and The Atlantic has reported on this as of others, is that there will be a whole lot of measures. It won't be a cancellation. It's not going to be dramatic like that, but just a lot of measures, whether it's challenging voters, whether it's voting laws that are changed at the last minute, whether it's canceling mail-in, or whether it's the actions of local and state officials that are just going to create confusion. and there's going to be a sense of uncertainty as to who won in Arizona, you know, who won in Wisconsin. But he seems to think that it's likely that even with that, they're going to lose.

14:03I think he is not going to, he's not going to lower the expectations. That's sort of traditional politics. I don't see Trump as playing the game of let's see if we can lower expectations so I can later claim we only lost seven seats. Do you have a different theory for why he says there's something deep psychologically with the voters, they always seem to lose the midterms. I see him just thinking out loud, as he often does, and say, oh, yeah, I've noticed that we always lose the midterms, which everyone knows, but he's kind of just discovered it and he's thinking out loud. But what I'm more worried about, as I said, is a more concerted campaign that's nationwide, and that is, you know, some of his more disciplined advisors will be implementing it to just create confusion about the election results so that we don't know.

14:47So a lot of Americans wonder who really won the midterms. Yeah. J.D. Vance has a law degree, but it didn't help him when he made a huge mistake on the law. We're going to do a fact check on that. And our guests are back with us in 90 seconds.

15:06We're back with George Packer and Molly Jong fast. J.D. Vance has a law degree, fashions himself a smart guy. He likes to go to war on Twitter. He said something false, so we're not going to re-air it. But I'll say what's true, which is federal agents and police generally have very wide latitude in this country, more than in some other countries. They have what's called qualified immunity. You can think of that as partial immunity. The tie goes to them. Mistakes go to them. Anything they do, George, as you know, probably from writing about a lot of this stuff in a lot of context, anything that a federal agent or police officer does in good faith pursuit of their lawful duty goes to them.

15:44So the horrific example of an ICE agent, let's say it's a different year. Let's say it's the year 2000 and they're going to do their job and arrest someone and they think they see a gun and they pull their gun and they shoot to defend themselves and the shot goes across the street and accidentally kills someone else. It's a tragedy, but under our law, it's not a murder. They didn't try to murder that person and the bullet went over there. So they have that latitude. J.D. Vance does or should know that. And instead he lied about it. So I don't need to repeat his lie. But I want to ask you what it means when at the highest levels of government people can debate a video and you can say, gosh, they're so wrong.

16:19I think they're lying. But it's debatable. J.D. Vance with a J.D., no pun intended. I'm pretty sure he knows what I just described, which is the state of the law. What does it mean when the highest levels of government are lying about it while the police and the agents are killing people? I mean, this isn't the first time he's trashed his law degree. This is the guy who said, supposedly quoting Andrew Jackson, the justice has ruled, let him now enforce it. In other words, make me do what the Supreme Court tells me to do. And in this case, a total distortion of the law of what kind of standards federal officers and agents are held to.

16:58And what it does is gives everyone out in the streets with a badge or with a mask on and a badge hidden behind a jacket the sense that they are free agents and they can they can use force to whatever degree. Yeah, you're saying something important that it's not just we say, oh, it's propaganda. No, it's worse than that. It's functionally. He's a heartbeat from the presidency. And he's saying to them, in my book, you can do whatever you want open season. And, you know, look, I mean, I was talking about this before when I was texting with Governor Walz. I said, is there, you know, I'm just going to go talk about this.

17:34What's happening there? And he said, we are working really hard to try to take down the temperature. Right. We are reaching out to everyone we can to take down the temperature because the goal here is to take down the temperature. And then you have J.D. Vance saying stuff like that, which is wildly inflammatory. And and by the way, right after the Renee Good shooting, you had him come out and do a whole press conference, which was so inflammatory and where he was, you know, casting aspersions of her. So I do think it absolutely is just it's really scary. And you don't want a federal government.

18:09I'm coming back to George later in the hour. I'm going to remind viewers what we have on the screen because we do the facts here. The law is federal agents can be prosecuted for misusing force. And although there is skepticism about whether the Trump administration will uphold that, we are a nation of laws. That's the law. And everyone should know that. And the fact that the vice president said things we can't air because they're false, that's on him. Molly, thank you for being here. George comes back. We have also an update tonight on why Dave Matthews is telling his millions of fans what's wrong with ICE policy.

18:43I'm going to show you South Park absolutely roasting Pete Hegseth and Trump's let them eat cake moment. Chris Hayes. I know it's not 8 p.m. Eastern. Chris Hayes is here live next.

19:00If you're a parent and want to help set up your child for success, then IXL is a right for your family. As an effective and affordable online learning program, IXL covers math, language arts, science, and social studies using interactive practice problems for kids from pre-K to 12th grade. Listeners can get an exclusive 20 % off IXL membership when they sign up today at IXL.com slash 20. Visit ixl.com slash 20 to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster? I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires, I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet nibbles after his untimely end.

19:40This is very strange. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects at Angie.com. Busy work weeks can leave you feeling drained. Prolon's five-day fasting mimicking diet rejuvenates you at the cellular level, lets you enjoy real food and does not require an injection. Developed at USC's Longevity Institute, Prolon supports biological age reduction, metabolism, skin health, and fat loss when combined with proper exercise and nutrition. Get 15 % off plus a$40 bonus gift when you subscribe at prolonlife.com slash Pandora promo. And when they went to the queen to tell her her subject had no bread, do you know what she said?

20:21Let them eat cake. That's such nonsense. I would never say that. Classic. Back before there were campaign ads or elections, the lore is that the queen made one of the greatest gaffes ever in politics. Marie Antoinette showing she so misunderstood her own people's starvation crisis that she thought they could switch from bread to another carb. Well, they were out of all food. Critics see the same kind of problem for Trump as his top food official has advice for you Americans about how to cut back and maybe get by on eating on$3 a day. We've run over a thousand simulations. It can cost around$3 a meal for a piece of chicken, a piece of broccoli, corn tortilla and one other thing.

21:13And so there is a way to do this that actually will save the average American consumer money.

21:23Where to begin? It's a poultry plan for getting full or nutrition. Many people are speaking up on this one, including making their own videos. Consider this a kind of a citizen ad to push back. We're seeing the pushback online. I'm generally curious about what she means by that one other thing, because this right here is the equivalent of one snack wrap. So I hope that one other thing is a second meal. Maybe you're a person that needs a visual. Here you go. Doesn't that look like a great meal? Brooke, what are you talking about? This is like the ideal Trump meal in their mind. And the Trump admin is basically doing this.

22:02Can we offer you a piece of broccoli in this trying time? People ask, what's the point of interviewing folks or talking to folks or gathering information? and sometimes people tell on themselves. This out-of-touch, rich, right-wing MAGA elitist actually has the audacity to condescend to the public and tell them that's their eating plan. Trump ran on lowering prices. Now he wants people to just cut back on those little$3 appetizers or get very distracted by a ton of other things. But when staple products are up this much, it's very hard to distract people from either their shrinking banking accounts to buy the stuff or their growling stomachs.

22:43As you can see, prices up over 10%. That's the New York Times report. While Trump is also getting rich off his job with side hustles and corrupt moonlighting that, as a factual matter, legally probably violates the Constitution and the law. You would need a Congress to investigate it and get all the facts, but that's what it looks like. We know that Trump's net worth has increased not by 100 million or 500 million, but by billions over crypto alone. Now think about the other things that they clearly feel free to do that might not have yet made the paper. He's also insisting on taking a luxury jet with him after office.

23:20That alone could be an impeachable offense if you had a Congress doing its job. I'm joined now by Chris Hayes, host of all and with Chris Hayes, of course. He's also the host of the Why Is This Happening podcast. And Dayenu, as if that weren't enough, the author of several books, including The Siren's Call, which has a attention economy analysis that we're actually going to try to get to in a couple minutes. So let's start with your thoughts on this affordability scandal. You know, one thing that was interesting to me, I was looking at the CPI data that came out the other day. And, you know, it's like a basket of goods, right?

23:55So what people buy. And, you know, it was up, what was it, 2.7 % in this last quarter. But you just showed the really important data. The irony here is that Trump has his obsession with groceries, which is a word he thinks he invented. Like he constantly is talking about like groceries. I went on the weirdest thing. It's like an old fashioned word, groceries, because he's never encountered groceries since the time he was a child. And quite ironically enough, that is the place where the most pain is. Yeah. I mean, on the thing that I think he correctly identified as the main pain point in 2024, that is the place where you've seen these huge spikes.

24:30We saw it in beef a little earlier in the year. That's now come down. You see it on a lot of different things. And one of the things I think we saw play out in 22 through 24 is it's just impossible to message around for an incumbent party. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, what are you going to do? The worst possible message you could do is, like, have one broccoli floret and a corn tortilla and a piece of chicken. Don't eat dinner. Yeah. Just have a really small snack. Also, we've modeled thousands of meals. Like, what are you even talking about? I don't know. So I want to go to the attention economy.