Storm of Revelations As Epstein Uproar Engulfs Trump

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1:18This morning, as Trump prepared to go overseas to Scotland, He was asked directly about Ghislaine Maxwell, the Epstein accomplice, of course, convicted of child sex trafficking. His DOJ interviewed her for a second straight day today. Victims are warning, though, that she's going to make up stories in return for a pardon, something Trump isn't declining to rule out. Would you consider a pardon or a commutation for Ghislaine Maxwell? It's something I haven't thought about. It's really recommended. I'm allowed to do it, but it's something I have not thought about. Would you consider letting people to lend Maxwell?

1:55I can't talk about that now because, you know, it's a very sensitive interview going on. I certainly can't talk about pardons now. Maxwell's lawyer facing reporters afterwards and referencing Trump's comments about a pardon. So she didn't testify at trial, but it's a different situation now. With the president even invoking the word pardon today. The president this morning said he had the power to do so. We hope he exercises that power in the right. What was the focus of the question? They asked about every single, every possible thing you could imagine. Everything. Everything was on the plate.

2:31You hoping for a deal as a result of this? Sorry? Are you hoping for a deal as a result of this meeting? We're not going to comment on what we're hoping for. We just today and yesterday answered questions. So she hasn't been offered to an agency or anything? Don't ask that one. She literally answered every question. She didn't say, you know what, don't ask me that. I'm not going to talk about this person. She was asked maybe about 100 different people. Also today, the New York Times revealing more about Trump's relationship with Epstein, publishing this image. It shows the inscription reportedly Trump wrote to Epstein on the inside of his 1997 book, The Art of the Comeback.

3:08It reads, to Jeff, you are the greatest, with Trump's distinctive signature on it. The Times also confirming reporting that Trump's name is on a contributor list for Epstein's 2003 birthday book. It follows this week's Wall Street Journal report that Trump wrote a, quote, bawdy birthday message in that book. Today, Trump still denying it. You maintain you did not write a letter for Jeffrey Epstein's birthday book? I don't even know what they're talking about. Now, somebody could have written a letter and used my name, but that's happened a lot. And late today, after touching down in Scotland, Trump also denying Bondi told him that his name was in the Epstein files, contradicting reporting from the Wall Street Journal.

3:52Is that the same thing you read on your name appearing in the Epstein files ever? No, I was never, never braved up. All of this is building on new reporting from the Times about how the Epstein files have consumed Pan Bondi's Justice Department. The DOJ conducted a, quote, frenetic scramble to sort more than 100 ,000 pages of materials related to Mr. Epstein, only to announce there was nothing to see there, folks. Many in MAGA don't believe it, and neither do a number of increasingly aggressive protest groups. On the left of your screen, a banner flown in Tallahassee where Maxwell is being interviewed.

4:30It reads, Trump and Bondi are protecting predators. In the middle, a sign on Trump's Scotland golf course reading, twinned with Epstein Island. And on the right, a bus stop near the U.S. Embassy in London showing Trump with Epstein. It has been a week. And this week, a video resurfaced from a 2010 deposition of Epstein. Have you ever socialized with Donald Trump in the presence of females under the age of 18? Yeah, do you have an age limit or would you... No, no, I have no age. I mean, I have an age. I don't want to be like the upper bracket with, you know, 12 year olds. Breaking late this afternoon.

5:13Brand new bombshell reporting from The Wall Street Journal. The U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi told President Trump back in May that his name appears multiple times in the Epstein file. New reporting from The New York Times that Trump was on the list to send Epstein a birthday note. What a difference a week or in this case, two weeks makes, right? So the uproar is only getting louder. Joining me now is Asha Rangappa, former special agent with the FBI and senior lecturer at Yale, and Tara Setmeyer, author of Uncompromised on Substack and co-founder and CEO for the Seneca Project. Asha, what do you make of Trump's non-denial over a possible pardon for Maxwell?

6:00I don't actually put too much weight on it. What I think with Trump is that when he says he will do something, he typically does it. When he says he won't do something, it doesn't mean that he won't. And he's very impulsive. And we know that he's used the pardon power to reward people who have protected him. He did this with people who protected him in the Mueller investigation. He pardoned everyone who participated in January 6th who had been charged. And so I think that if there is something that he could get out of it and he can use this power in order to secure that, I would not put it past him to do that.

6:44Tara, what do you make of the optics of this possible pardon, however? You know, as some of our colleagues have been talking about throughout the day today, Jen Psaki had one of the victims, the survivors, on with her last night. You know, they're really the center of this case, this story. But it's kind of the it seems to be the dynamic around these possible pardons, the politics of all of this that have overtaken it. And the optics are a bit strange. I mean, look, Todd Blanche personally worked for Donald Trump, not necessarily an expert, actually, in this kind of case. Do people kind of get the impression, do voters, you think, get the impression that an honest deal may be brokered here?

7:25Is he going in as a representative of the DOJ, I guess, or is he going in as kind of a side dealmaker, you think? Oh, well, Todd Blanche is definitely going in as a henchman for Donald Trump. That's why Donald Trump installed all of these people in these positions. They're carrying out his will against tradition, against, in some cases, what people would consider lawful actions, against what the Constitution says, which is why they've been challenged so many times in court. So it's the more that people keep talking about this and pointing out the fact that Todd Blanch was Donald Trump's personal attorney.

8:02It's highly unusual, as Asha knows, for the deputy attorney general to even be involved in something like this. And, oh, all of a sudden, since Donald Trump has been hysterical throwing hissy fits on Truth Social and at press conferences over this issue for a month and a half because he can't he can't make it go away. Now, all of a sudden, Ghislaine Maxwell is going to come in and save the day, possibly for him to help change the subject. There has not been enough focus on the fact that this is a wretched woman who was convicted and in prison for 20 years for being a child sex trafficker. She's nobody's victim, which is what the other side is trying to do now, trying to change the storyline.

8:42She's not a victim. The real victims in this case are the hundreds of women and young girls who were raped, who were sexually assaulted, who were held captive against their own will, who were sex trafficked by Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. This is the person that the Donald Trump's Justice Department wants to potentially talk to and cut a deal with to try to save him and change the narrative. She has zero credibility. She's been convicted of perjury as well. And anyone who's been paying attention, you don't have to have a law degree to know that when someone is in prison for 20 years and they are there, there's a possibility for them to curry favor with the one person on the planet who could with the stroke of a pen, get her out of prison.

9:24She's going to say whatever she needs to to get out of prison. So it's all in bad faith. And the people who claim to be so invested in child pornography and stopping child sex trafficking and pedophilia, are they really going to allow Donald Trump and his minions to cut a deal with a convicted child sex trafficker? They need to reconcile that. I think it's going to be very difficult to do as long as we keep putting attention on the real victims here in this who are the women and young girls. Asha, on that point, it was interesting. You know, we played some sound of Maxwell's attorney speaking to reporters earlier, but there were some other parts of his remarks that interested me.

10:02In some of his statements, he started to kind of argue that she's been treated unfairly through this whole process, that she's had her honesty unfairly questioned, that she was treated worse than an animal in jail at one point. Do you think they're trying to lay the groundwork, both her legal team and then sort of the right wing podcast and reactionary infrastructure around this whole thing? Are they trying to lay the groundwork here to change the story about who Maxwell is? And if so, can you remind us who Maxwell is? Yeah, I think they would have to change the narrative, as Tara pointed out, to make her into a victim in order for some kind of pardon or clemency to, you know, I guess, create the story around it.

10:51But as Tara pointed out, she was charged with two counts of perjury for lying during a deposition about her participation in sexual acts with minors with Jeffrey Epstein. The other piece of this to emphasize, as Tara did as well, is that she was an active participant. She was someone who actually participated in the abuse and assault of these women. One thing I would just also note is that there have apparently been hundreds of FBI agents going through thousands of files, thousands of pages, which would include, by the way, witness testimony, interviews, you know, all kinds of evidence and documents.

11:36It's hard for me to believe that there's any information that she could provide now, three years after she's been convicted. And how unusual is that, by the way, for them to be going through that amount of documents in a relatively short amount of time? Is that typical work for this department? No, typical work for this department is to be investigating cases of other sex traffickers or, you know, Chinese cyber crimes or violent offenders or, you know, any any number of federal crimes that the FBI does. And what we've seen is that under Trump's Justice Department, hundreds of agents have now been, you know, they're going through the Epstein files.

12:22They're helping ICE with immigration raids, which is not what the FBI is trained to do. Apparently now there's going to be some of them on some kind of task, strike task force to investigate Obama for, you know, the investigation into Russian election interference in 2016. So it's, you know, the greatest hits are coming back. And this just makes us less safe because it means the agents aren't doing the things that they do to protect national security. Asha Rangappa, Tara Settmeyer, thank you both for joining tonight. Coming up, our breakdown of how Trump officials are moving the goalposts on the media and eyeing their very next targets.

13:04Plus, a special guest at the heart of the debate over free speech and Trump's abuse of power, Mahmoud Khalil, is live here in the studio. But first, how Democrats are already launching attack ads, hitting Republicans on the Epstein crisis. We're back in 90 seconds. Support for this podcast comes from Progressive, America's number one boat insurer. We've all made mistakes on the water, but there's one mistake you shouldn't make, being uninsured. With Progressive Boat Insurance, you can choose coverage for most mistakes you or other boaters could make, helping you float carefree all season long.

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14:50Yep, all people want to talk about is Epstein and Trump doesn't. It's annoying. It's like getting to sit down with Buzz Aldrin and him saying, you can ask me anything except the moon. Late night comics roasting Trump amid the Epstein uproar. And now Democrats seem to be finding their footing, finally, and sharpening their political knives. Launching a new campaign targeting MAGA voters with ads about Jeffrey Epstein in a dozen GOP-held House districts at the start of the August recess. One ad simply plays footage of Trump and Epstein together. Another showcases comments about the Epstein files from MAGA lawmakers like Marjorie Taylor Greene.

15:41This is a serious issue. The highest volume of calls into my office have been about Epstein. Democrats smell weakness and opportunity. Trump's approval rating absolutely cratering to 37 percent, a second term low, while prominent MAGA influencers and so-called brocasters widen their attacks to include Trump Attorney General Pam Bondi. Yeah. Trump is protecting other pedophiles. Facts. Like, that's what it is. Or Pam Bondi, as I call her, dropped the ball as it relates to the Epstein investigation. Just because your name is in there doesn't mean you're guilty. Okay, and I think that's what they're trying to freaking cover up.

16:22This, he is rebuking the base, like, almost like spitting in their face. It's a mess. It's a mess. It is. And the longer she keeps doing that and has a job, it falls on the president. And anger towards Bondi is also coming from some House Republicans, blaming Bondi, who touted a potential client list before pouring cold water all over it, for fumbling the Epstein saga badly, as Politico reports. Joining me now is David Litt, former speechwriter for President Obama. His new book, It's Only Drowning, A True Story of Learning to Surf and the Search for Common Ground. David, it's great to see you again.

17:02We were at the table together about a week ago over the weekend. And at the time, all of us were not quite sure how this whole thing was going to unfold. I think we knew it was spiraling out of control. But now, days later, what's your assessment of where we are? Are you surprised at the number of developments that have happened in just the last five, six days? I'm not surprised by most of it. I am surprised that they shut down Congress over this, right? Like, on one hand, who among us hasn't shut down our workplace in order to help our boss cover up in a longtime association with a notorious sex criminal?

17:34On the other hand, it's a little weird, right? And it's particularly weird because of the urgency with which Mike Johnson passed tax cuts for wealthy people and kicked working people off Medicaid. And now when it comes to exposing wrongdoing by wealthy donors, not to mention the president himself, potentially, he's like, oh, OK, it's time for an early vacation. So I do think that kind of thing, you heard a clip of Andrew Schultz saying this. People in parts of the MAGA coalition aren't just saying this is about Epstein. They're taking it personally. And I'm not surprised by that. But at the same time, I think you have a lot of Republicans who are pretty concerned about what's happening.

18:08Do you think there's a chance of a real fever break happening here? It's been interesting, in particular, to watch the Tulsi Gabbard baseless conspiracy theorizing around former President Obama, who, you know, you know, that hasn't really broken through. Even Republicans have kind of been like, this thing isn't going to work for us. We have to address the Epstein issue. That surprised me at some points. I think it's so transparently a distraction, even for a president administration that loves transparent distractions, that in this case, I think that's why this just hasn't worked. You know, it's interesting to me.

18:43We were talking about this over the weekend. It's the book that I wrote. I wrote this book about surfing with my Joe Rogan superfan brother in law. And the thing that he texted me about recently was South Park. Right. It actually wasn't one of the sort of Manosphere podcast. Interesting. But it's South Park. And that's the kind of thing that's breaking through. And I think it's a bigger story than just Epstein. this is the Republican Party becoming the establishment again. And it's the people who are on the outside saying, let's take down the sacred cows. Let's go after the people who are looking down their noses at the rest of us.

19:14You know, they think they can get away with anything. That's suddenly becoming an anti-Trump position where during the campaign, it was cast as a very anti-Democrat, you know, anti-Harris position. That's interesting. So basically, this whole world that built itself on the Internet and the audio space that argued that they were the anti-government truth tellers going to call it like they see it. They're now in an uncomfortable position because their people, I mean, literally podcasters like Bongino, they are in government now. They are the deep state, if that's what you want to call it. Yeah, it's the Jafar problem.

19:46That's right. Right. Like at the end, not to spoil Aladdin, but at the end of Aladdin, most of our viewers have seen it. I think it's OK. And it's like, OK, you're you know, you wanted to be a genie. You've got it. You've got everything that comes with it. They have all the power. Trump loves talking about how he can do whatever he wants. Well, he could release the Epstein files if he wanted. Right. He can't hide behind saying, oh, the deep state won't let me anymore. And because of that, now Trump starts to look like the deep state. Are you surprised at all that Epstein is the thing that has helped the Democrats kind of find their voice and stop, I guess, standing on like their back foot?

20:20I think that it's not so surprising to me that this is an issue the Democrats can seize on because it's something that everyone's already talking about. What surprises me, and I think it's, you know, everyone who's talking about this, I have yet to hear someone explain it, is why would Trump not see this coming and release these files, right? So it's this weird behavior that sort of says, like, he's not, he knows how the media works. He knows that this was something his base wanted. The fact that he's acting this sketchy about it is just super odd. And that's like my political science term for it.

20:55Do you think he's miscalculated the extent to which he controls his own movement, his people? I think that depends what's in those files, right? Like we don't know what he's hiding. And so he may be making a risk reward calculation and he may be making it really well, or he may be making it really poorly. But it's the fact that he's obviously hiding something that is getting people Right. Like, you know, I think about the sort of like the hot tub in a surf pool in Waco, Texas, right, where I where I went for research, so to speak, for my book. I was wondering where this was going. And it's a very Joe Rogan friendly place.

21:29And, you know, imagining a spot like that, the fact that the president is so transparently hiding something, that's the kind of thing that turns people off when they had said, OK, maybe I am MAGA in 24. Now they're looking toward the midterm saying these are exactly the same kind of, you know, big government, shady people that, you know, the swamp that we thought might get drained. Actually, these guys are more swappy than anyone else. Right. And there are so many people and it sounds like maybe your brother-in-law or some of the people you may have spoken to for your book fit into this camp who were not like, you know, back in 2015, 2016, MAGA diehard.

22:06They haven't necessarily been in the movement the entire time. They came into this through lifestyle content and other sort of looser associations to the movement. And those are the people who I think they're at risk of kind of losing along the way here right now, because I'm not sure that they're as dedicated to this whole thing, that they're going to be willing to keep the blinders on all the way through. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like Trump could just be like, ha ha, I was Jeffrey Epstein this whole time. And Steve Bannon and Charlie Kirk would find a way to be like, OK, that's fine. Right.

22:35But but but other parts of MAGA that are more anti-establishment for real, it's not a game. They're the ones who are saying, wait a second, we feel betrayed by this. And the fact that Trump turns around and starts to say, you're just a bunch of conspiracy theorists. Right. They're saying, wait a second. This is a guy we literally put in the White House. He would not be there without us. And now it's six months in and he's insulting us like you don't have to be a political genius to say that's not a good move for the president. Well, I have a feeling this is only going to get weirder and worse for him in the coming days.

23:08David Litt, thank you so much for being here with me tonight. Still ahead, Epstein's accusers bracing message to the Trump administration. Also tonight, an FCC commissioner warns of the dangers of, quote, capitulating to Trump after the Skydance Paramount merger. We are seeing as a weapon at weaponization of the FCC's regulatory authority to retaliate and to control the content of of news media organizations. And later, I'll talk to the activist Mahmoud Khalil now suing the Trump administration. But first, the former secretary of the Air Force on what he calls Trump's abuse of power. He's here live next.

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