In short
The episode argues that Tuesday’s off-year Democratic wins reflect voter rejection of Trump’s agenda, driven mainly by affordability and economic anxiety, not messaging. It claims Trump misleads about inflation and gas prices, while grocery and utility costs keep rising. It also links the political backlash to the ongoing government shutdown: millions face food insecurity as SNAP benefits are halted, flights are canceled due to staffing shortages, and courts are sparring with the administration over food benefits and ICE tactics. A key claim is that Trump’s “talk about affordability” is insufficient because voters want “doing,” empathy, and concrete relief. Notable examples include Obama’s remarks at Pod Save America, Trump’s East Wing demolition, Trump-branded wine sold in government stores, and South Park mocking the renovation and shutdown priorities.
Guests
Jason Johnson (MSNBC political analyst) and Michelle Goldberg (New York Times columnist). Later guest: Emily Bazelon (New York Times Magazine legal writer).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VODemocratic Wins and Voter Sentiment
0:00 to 0:18
Exploration of recent Democratic victories and their implications for Republicans.
“Does anything there actually inspire you?”
Democratic Wins and Voter Sentiment
1:30 to 4:40
Exploration of recent Democratic victories and their implications for Republicans.
“Now, those are obviously big ifs if you know politics.”
Trump's Economic Claims Under Fire
4:40 to 7:30
Ari discusses Trump's misleading economic claims and their impact on voters.
“And so what Trump was selling last year, literally a year ago in November, seemed to work a bit, and it is not working now.”
The Importance of Empathy in Politics
7:30 to 10:40
Guests discuss the need for empathetic leadership and its impact on local elections.
“economic ideas, as well as what you heard from there, the Democratic Socialists.”
Obama's Communication Strategy
10:40 to 14:00
Analysis of Obama's recent comments about the Democratic Party's big tent approach.
“Yeah, as you say, that was about him and the rush, the urgency to set up the crypto operations or mess with what is still a public building supported by the public is a very different priority than the other things.”
Analyzing Obama's Political Strategy
14:00 to 20:56
Learn how Obama's nuanced approach to endorsements contrasts with other Democrats.
“So the answer, I mean, it's so obvious that almost, you know, there's almost no point in it seems strange to even articulate it, that you run everywhere and you run people who match the locales they come from.”
The Impact of the Government Shutdown
20:56 to 25:16
Explore how the government shutdown affects ordinary Americans and political dynamics.
“Join me this season as I sit down with comedian Andy Richter, chef Gail Gand, and tastemakers from around the state.”
Republicans and the Blame Game
26:44 to 28:06
Discuss the implications of the Republicans' strategies and public perceptions in light of the shutdown.
“I would be going back and saying, look, we offered you this.”
Political Tensions During Shutdown
28:06 to 29:14
The discussion revolves around the implications of a government shutdown on voters and political optics.
“As soon as he calls vows back into session and has to swear in the new representative, Gervalja, from Arizona, they're going to have enough votes to pass the discharge petition to release the Epstein files.”
Political Tensions During Shutdown
29:16 to 29:36
The discussion revolves around the implications of a government shutdown on voters and political optics.
“Coming up, we will show you how South Park is taking no prisoners.”
Show all 17 chapters
Political Tensions During Shutdown
29:40 to 30:06
The discussion revolves around the implications of a government shutdown on voters and political optics.
“Choose Power Home Remodeling and remodel how you think about remodeling.”
Trump's Legal Troubles Intensify
30:56 to 33:17
An analysis of Trump's recent legal challenges and their implications for his presidency.
“There's really no doubt that this week was Donald Trump's worst week yet in his first term.”
Impact of ICE Tactics on Immigration
33:18 to 36:21
Discussion on the controversial tactics used by ICE and the implications for immigration policy.
“The political headlines of what the voters are rejecting.”
Cornell's Deal with the Trump Administration
36:22 to 38:51
Exploring the recent agreement between Cornell University and the Trump administration regarding funding and compliance.
“Trump took office, they know the previous high was in his first term in 19 when they held 56000 detainees.”
Discussion on Diversity and Government Oversight
38:52 to 40:14
A conversation about the implications of government oversight on university diversity practices.
“But what do you think about the timing of this?”
Critique of Political Satire
42:01 to 43:58
Explore how South Park uses satire to comment on political issues and corruption.
“Okay, and then right over here is where we're going to put your dance floor.”
Democrats Seize the Narrative
44:01 to 45:29
Discussion on how Democrats, led by Gavin Newsom, are framing the political landscape against Trump.
“And the only thing you need to know is what you probably already know from this week.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Emily Bazelon:Stop and look at your walls. Does anything there actually inspire you? Original art has the power to transform not only how a space looks, but how it feels. And that's why Saatchi Art is on a mission to make living with original art accessible to everyone. Join buyers from around the world who have experienced the joy of living with art. Visit SaatchiArt.com today and get 10 % off original art with code PODCAST10. That's 10 % off at SaatchiArt.com. That's S-A-A-T-C-H-I-ART.com.
0:30Jason Johnson:This summer, FanDuel is the best place to bet on goals. Including equalizers? Uh-huh. Balls? Yep. Headers? Every goal is worth more on FanDuel. So, let there be goals. New customers get$350 in bonus bets guaranteed when you bet$5 for seven days. 21 plus in present and select states. First online real money wager only. Minimum$5 wager required for seven consecutive days. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets, which expires seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See full terms at fanduel.com slash sportsbook. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET.
1:00Welcome to The Beat, everyone. I'm Ari Melbourne. We begin with the shockwaves from an earthquake that is reshaping our politics. What started Tuesday night has really continued to resonate across the week. Democratic wins in what are off-year elections, and when you go into the data, and all the people have been crunching the numbers even more as the days go on, you can see it was a lot more than just the governor's races. The trend lines are a warning for Republicans if Democrats could continue this and run good candidates and stay united. Now, those are obviously big ifs if you know politics.
1:34President Obama is taking a more active role than usual in the past election cycles, especially for an off year. We saw him not only on the stump, but today he waded in, which he doesn't always do. These are his first public comments about those Democratic victories. Something of a victory lap for him, given that he was out in the field. And he discussed what he calls the voters' rejection of a cruel Trump agenda.
1:58Jason Johnson:It was a good reminder that it turns out that the American people are paying attention. They don't want cruelty. They're not looking for people on the top trying to entrench themselves in power. they believe in community. They believe in treating people with decency and respect. You can hear the applause. He was speaking at a gathering of Pod Save America, which is a hit media company series of podcasts from Obama veterans. You could see behind him as well, Alex Wagner, an MSNBC anchor, who also has done a podcast for them. And so it was, of course, in the crowd cheering, a very friendly Obama kind of crowd.
2:52But the things he said do seem to relate to what a heck of a lot of other people thought who aren't partisan Democrats, but are voters in places that Trump had done well before, including Pennsylvania and parts of rural Virginia. Trump is not on board with that exact interpretation, although he knows he lost and he hasn't been lying about that in contrast to some other Republican losses. But he is lying about some of the economics. The polling shows affordability and economic anxiety drove the Republicans' losses here, which, again, to both have a memory and to be fair, as they say, is also what drove Democratic losses in Biden, the Biden-Harris agenda a year ago.
3:34So we do know, and we've mentioned this in our reporting, James Carville and others, Jay Comanduri have talked about it on this very program, voters punish incumbents when the economics are bad. The Carville phrase, it's the economy, stupid, updated to its affordability, stupid, and Republicans paying a price for Trump's forgotten promise. Forgotten, of course, is a charitable way to put it. There are Democrats, liberals, experts, critics who argued that Trump never meant much about his promises on prices. He certainly has pushed boundaries and spent political capital or energy or whatever you want to call it this year and never on infrastructure, which he used to talk about, or any national plan to really lower prices.
4:18As you know, he has what the courts are questioning might be new taxes in the tariffs. He's picked a lot of big fights over culture issues. He's indicted political opponents in a way that might be unlawful. We'll find out. Point is, he's done a lot of stuff, but hasn't done much of anything on prices. His critics say he never was going to. He wasn't serious. Democrats now say they know how to run on this better than before. Politics moves fast. Technology and media changes. And so what Trump was selling last year, literally a year ago in November, seemed to work a bit, and it is not working now.
4:52In a way, he's caught in his own trap because people do remember how much he said he would do and that he said the prices were a problem. He now owns that economy. And now he's just using the A word, affordability, like saying it will make it real. So the affordability is much better with the Republicans. The only problem is the Republicans don't talk about it. We are the ones that have done great on affordability. They've done horribly on affordability. I don't want to hear about the affordability. Talk about it. that is someone who knows about talk. But whether he's all talk is the question that voters are pushing to him.
5:36He was a member of the media, whatever you want to call it, an entertainer, a reality show host, for many years. He looks at what just happened and sees it as a communications issue. We talked about it before, but we're not talking about it the right way now. And I will just say as fairly as we can, this is not an issue about talking. It's about doing. It's about whether the government is working for you or whether it's shut down indefinitely because the people in charge and Republicans control both political branches either can't get it done or don't want to support health care during these economic tough times, both of which appear to be losing messages, at least in the places that we got to vote on Tuesday, as well as in the polling.
6:17Trump's making misleading claims about gas. It's over$3. Trump claims on inflation don't add up. Grocery prices still going up, increasing by over a point this year. And then over on Fox News, some of the coverage is here on planet Earth. Take a look.
6:37Emily Bazelon:Prices are up in the United States for coffee. It's up almost 20 percent. Utility, up 11.7 percent. And then electricity is up 5.1 percent. And vehicle repair, if you need your car fixed, it's up 11.5 percent. Count it up. Numbers don't lie. Those are actual numbers about the economic problems, coupled with Tuesday's actual numbers about the voters' response. Now, Zoran Mamdani has campaigned on this, and we had him on this program on Election Eve, and he put it very concisely in our rapid-fire lightning round. A reason conservatives are welcome in your Democratic Party is they also have to pay rent.
7:24Simple as that. They have to pay rent. And I'm going to show you in a minute what Obama said about having an open and big tent that includes centrists, military veterans, people with different economic ideas, as well as what you heard from there, the Democratic Socialists. Now, Trump has long but bragged that he's a billionaire. Even before, according to Forbes, he was one. This year, though, he is making real money, not just talking about hundreds of millions of dollars in crypto that we know about, which presents a huge conflict of interest. He used to call crypto a scam. Now his family makes the money off it.
8:00He threw a tone deaf Great Gatsby party flaunting wealth while people are struggling and hurting more under his shutdown. Forbes reports that there is another issue of greed as Trump is selling Trump-branded wine at government stores, even Coast Guard supermarkets in the Virginia area. Who knows if many of those voters who dealt Republicans a double-digit loss had seen the gauche wine, which, unlike great grapes, doesn't seem to be aging well. I'm joined by Jason Johnson, who is known to love a political wine metaphor. He's an MSNBC analyst. And Michelle Goldberg, a columnist at the New York Times.
8:40She, Jason, unlike us New York Times writers, way too classy to go along with my terrible Friday humor. Welcome to both of you. Happy Friday.
8:50Jason Johnson:Thanks, Ari. Happy Friday, Ari. Great to have you. I'm joking about my jokes, but whether or not anybody clocked those wine bottles, Michelle, Well, they seem like a kind of a can't help himself small grift dwarfed by the much more significant large grifts we've covered at a time where this week after losing, Trump now says they got to talk more about affordability. I will open with a simple question. I gave Mom Donnie some complex and simple questions. The question is, is talking about it enough if people are hurting? Well, I think we saw with Joe Biden that the attempt to kind of tell people, no, you might think the economy is actually bad, but it's actually good, even when in that case there was some reality behind it.
9:39It still doesn't work. Right. And it's still I think it underlines particular danger for Trump is that to him, the solution to voters economic woes was simply the fact of having him in the White House. You know, kind of according to his own way of seeing the world, he is in the White House. Ergo, the economy is great. And so he can't really admit to himself that there's any problem. He can't even pretend, as I think a normal politician would do, to empathize with the pain of his own voters. That's why you hear him say things like, I don't want to hear about affordability. I mean, had Joe Biden ever said anything like that, it would be dominating the political conversation for weeks.
10:21We also you also in that kind of list of the various ways that Trump is flaunting his corruption. I think a big one and one that there's some evidence that has stuck with voters was the demolition of the East Wing of the White House. Right. So people can see what his priorities are and kind of what he's doing with the power of his office. Yeah, as you say, that was about him and the rush, the urgency to set up the crypto operations or mess with what is still a public building supported by the public is a very different priority than the other things. Your thoughts, Jason?
11:00Jason Johnson:Yeah, I mean, Donald Trump has never been an empathetic guy, right? He doesn't feel your pain. He doesn't care. He doesn't talk about bread and butter issues. He's always been my leadership is going to make everything better for you. And what we saw in these elections is that people at a local level who show empathy, they do better. And whether you're talking about a mayor in Cleveland or a mayor in Pittsburgh or a mayor in New York or public service commissioners in Georgia, people who are able to say, hey, I recognize that your power bill has gone up six times in the last three years. Hey, I recognize that lamb and rice has gotten more expensive.
11:35Jason Johnson:I can make it cheaper. Those people resonate a lot better with regular voters and swing voters, as much as I don't believe in them, as anything Donald Trump has ever said. And the entire Republican Party probably needs to learn this lesson, but they won't.
11:51Obama's remarks today, I told viewers we're going to get to more of them. And this is not the breaking news of him even speaking out, which he doesn't always do. But with the wind at his back, Michelle, he's citing evidence, which is his style. He was a great, pretty celebrated writer and lawyer before he was a president. So he prefers to make the argument after a win than perhaps a week ago that the Democrats could do well with centrists and veterans and a Momdani. We've heard a different set of arguments from some members of the party. And I've mentioned our reporting. Mom Donnie has a record, including remarks that he had to address in New York City, let alone in other places.
12:32But listen to how Obama put it. I'm curious your view of this. The Big Ten argument renewed at a time of polarization.
12:42Jason Johnson:Tuesday was nice, but we've got a lot of work to do.
12:50Jason Johnson:And your task is going to be not to impose litmus tests. We had Abigail Spanberger win and we had Zohran Mandani win. And they are all part of a vision for the future. Michelle? Well, either you want a big tent or you don't. I mean, centrists and kind of people who want the Democratic Party to be more congenial to conservatives will often say they want a big tent. And I think that that's the right approach. You're obviously not going to run a Zoran Mamdani type candidate outside of a big liberal city. But a big tent doesn't just mean that you open up your tent to the right. And I also am not sure that there's a lot of voters who don't necessarily who don't really see politics on a left-right continuum because Zoran Mamdani almost certainly won some Trump voters.
13:52Right. There are kind of also just anti-system voters who are going to be more reachable by a candidate like Mamdani than a candidate like Spanberger. So the answer, I mean, it's so obvious that almost, you know, there's almost no point in it seems strange to even articulate it, that you run everywhere and you run people who match the locales they come from. Jason, Obama is a skilled communicator. I've pointed out that he and Chuck Schumer had the same technical position going into Tuesday in that both had withheld their potential endorsement of the New York nominee who had beat Cuomo, who'd won a Democratic nomination.
14:35Parties exist to coalesce around people. The voters in that area had picked a person and they both withheld. And And yet Obama, because maybe this is what makes him Obama, is how much he Obama's. He had found a way to withhold the endorsement to validate the concerns. And there are there I mentioned there were some while still having a glide path to credibly say what I just showed you today. Schumer, the New York Times says, is at risk of being left behind, did not come off as warmly, although we can report. He also had a phone call with Mondani and they have the same, you know, constituency in New York City.
15:11Uh, so, so what do you see there in Obama sort of threading the needle? He mentioned two candidates by name. He'd only actually endorsed one of them, but he's signaling something.
15:23Jason Johnson:The thing about Obama is that he is a great talent evaluator when he's not sure about somebody like he held off on vice president Harris because he wasn't quite sure he likes Josh Shapiro. He sees the talent in Momdani. And I, I, I think people need to understand this. Momdani is a unique talent. This guy went from number one spice to I run New York in like 10 years. Not many people can pull that off. You can't get a Momdani to just show up in Richmond and show up in Baltimore and show up in Washington, D.C. And Barack Obama recognizes that when you have that once in a generation talent, that person should be supported.
15:59Jason Johnson:Momdani didn't need Obama's endorsement in order to win. But Barack Obama recognizes that for him to stay relevant, he needs to make sure he shows up for somebody like that. Michelle? Well, I would also say that, you know, although Obama didn't endorse Mamdani, there was reporting that he's been talking to Mamdani, that he's been impressed by him, that he's been encouraging him. So his position has been very different than Schumer, who's been, you know, much colder. That's I'll let you finish. But let me just jump in. That's that's sort of the nuance I'm referencing, your outlet had a reporting on that.
16:38And so Obama seemed to want people to know, unlike Schumer, who withheld and just left it there, Obama leaked or encouraged the idea that they were talking, like you're saying, and then we'll see. And we all know if it ended differently on Tuesday, we wouldn't be talking about this mayor. So he sort of, I allow you to build on that point, Michelle, but he did sort of find a middle ground that not only Schumer, I'm not only isolating him. He happens to be a leader. But other Democrats might want to consider. Can you criticize something you're concerned about while not suggesting the person didn't win the nomination?
17:13Well, I don't think that Schumer ever denied that he won the nomination, but he did sort of suggest that he was beyond the pale. I mean, look, Chuck Schumer is someone who told my colleague, one of my colleagues, that his job was to, quote, keep the left pro-Israel. And if he's assigned that job to himself, he's kind of manifestly failed. But it's not surprising that he could support Mamdani. It's just the problem is, is that Mamdani's position is much closer now to the kind of median Democratic position, particularly in the wake of the war in Gaza, than Schumer's is. And there is just so much anger among the Democratic grassroots right now towards a leadership that they see as being kind of weak and feckless in the face of Trump's assault on, you know, basically everything that that of value in this country.
18:08And, you know, so you look, there's polls that show, you know, overwhelming majorities of Democrats want new congressional leadership. And so, you know, the party, Mamdani is in some, you know, Mamdani support. Mamdani didn't win by the sort of margins that Abigail Spanberger or Mikey Sherrill won by. At the same time, I think that the energy in the party is desperate for new and anti-establishment voices like him. Yeah, you make several important points. The margins are hard to square because Andrew Cuomo spent his life saying he would fight Donald Trump and Republicans certainly made that message clear in covid and that Democrats should honor the nomination process.
18:52And in the moment it hurt Cuomo, and I think the voters noticed this, he ran again. I mean, there are states and localities where it's actually illegal to do what Cuomo did, which is try to win a nomination, lose and run again. And so the the total vote, I would guess I'll let you respond, Michelle. In New York, it's hard to swear because you basically had a lifelong Democrat also running in the general, but then getting a Trump endorsement. So all got really hard to measure. Right. I mean, I think that if Mamdani had just been running a kind of straight up race against a Republican, you know, against Curtis Sliwa, then the margins would have been pretty overwhelming.
19:28I think in a lot of people's minds, it was a choice between two Democrats. Yeah, I think that's well put. And yeah, it's funky. And again, this is we're in the weeds. But hey, the Democrats are looking in the weeds and a lot of what they're finding is cross tabs that that are encouraging for the midterm. So it is interesting a couple of days later to sift through it. Jason, I want to also both of you stay. Jason, I want to ask you about this Democratic move today on the shutdown. So that's when we come back. We also have our South Park moment tonight. It is Friday going into the weekend and you cannot believe how tough they're getting on the White House renovation.
20:02We'll show you that. Trump officials also facing headwinds in court. But next, the government shutdown, a possible solution. Our panelists respond in 90 seconds.
20:16Jason Johnson:Is it possible for AI to work in the enterprise? The short answer is yes. The long answer is, oh, yes. Users can pick the AI providers they prefer, and you can decide which data is off-limits, monitor all AI activity, and control every detail. This is Enterprise AI from Ireland. AI at its best by keeping out the worst. Scaled for the enterprise. From Ireland. There's a special magic to Illinois, and it all starts with the people. Hi, I'm Katie Sheehan, host of Enjoy Illinois Let's Go, a brand new podcast that brings you the stories, places, and personalities that define the land of Lincoln. Join me this season as I sit down with comedian Andy Richter, chef Gail Gand, and tastemakers from around the state.
21:09Find us on your favorite podcast platforms. Are you ready to enjoy Illinois? Let's go.
21:44Jason Johnson:TB before starting. Increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur, like TB or other serious bacterial, fungal, or viral infections. Some were fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or cough, had a vaccine or planned to, or if IBD symptoms develop or worsen. Serious allergic reactions and severe eczema-like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-COSENTICS or cosentics.com. Move and feel better. Ask a rheumatologist about Crocantix.
22:18Jason Johnson:So if you're traveling for Thanksgiving, you might want to leave now. Yeah, unfortunately, maybe time to try your new favorite airline, the bus. As of now, the best way to travel for Thanksgiving will be grabbing a Macy's balloon and hoping for wind. Take me home, SpongeBob! They got jokes about something that is no laughing matter if you are stuck at the airport, whether that's for work, pleasure, or ultimately the busiest day of the year to travel Thanksgiving. This government shutdown is well known now in the culture. Trump can see the problem. He's actually specifically blamed the shutdown for what looks like a wider rejection of his policies on Tuesday.
22:57He may have wanted to narrow it to that, something that he thinks involves Congress and, frankly, the other party. Millions of Americans are now heading to food banks more than usual because they're not getting food benefits from the government. Trump's administration is still fighting in court to deny people food assistance after losing. We have more on that. Hundreds of flights canceled and more delayed. Take a look. Stress and staffing shortages among air traffic controllers as the government shutdown continues. We will cancel a flight as long as the government requires us to. Denver canceled.
Read the full transcript
23:31No other flights available. I am absolutely crashing out over the fact that I have to change my flight or else I do not know if I'm going to get home.
23:37Jason Johnson:Food panthers are so overwhelmed tonight. There's so much demand and not enough supply. With the government being shut down and my husband not being paid. We're going to have double the families, but the donations are down across the board because of uncertainty. I went to the food bank for the first time ever. I feel like a failure because I can't feed all my children.
24:02back with our guest. Jason, that's how it's playing out while Democrats are telling the government and really the public if the new offer is if you'll just do a year of health care and we can deal with the debate later, we can reopen everything. Your view.
24:20Jason Johnson:I mean, from a messaging standpoint, as cold as that may sound, it's a brilliant move by Chuck Schumer. And I don't think anyone has uttered that sentence in months. I mean, this puts this squarely on the shoulders of the Republican Party that they're not willing to reopen the government just to fund health care for a year. It's literally kicking the can down the road until the midterm elections. But I think that the deeper issue is this. This kind of economic disruption isn't going to be magically solved even if the government were to reopen next week. You've got people who are behind in bills.
24:51Jason Johnson:You've got people who are going to start getting eviction notices. You've got people who can't pay tuition. This is a crisis in the making and a crisis that's been ongoing by the Republican Party. The Democrats have a better idea. They have a better position. And Trump is leading his party to ruin. Michelle. Well, I think that the election showed pretty definitively, I mean, the polling has also showed that voters are blaming Republicans for the shutdown. And I think that the election affirmed that. So, I mean, as kind of brutal and gutting as this is for so many people. It wouldn't be malpractice for Democrats to fold without getting something substantial for, I mean, not just their voters, but for voters in general.
25:36There's no reason that all of this should have been for nothing when even the president acknowledges that this shutdown is hurting him, even as he kind of shows very little urgency or flexibility in trying to end it. Democrat Chris Murphy was talking about all of this from the halls of Congress. Take a look. I think there's a real gravity to what happened on Tuesday.
26:03Jason Johnson:The electorate spoke really clearly. Voters were telling Democrats they want us to stand up for what we believe in and they want us to use our power to don't ruin people's lives as we head into the holidays. So we need a negotiation. Jason. All right. At this point, not just after the election, but the numbers of people who are suffering, the numbers of people who aren't going to get SNAP benefits, the people who are just read a story about teachers abroad at military bases who aren't getting their pay and they don't know how they're going to be able to get home. The Democrats are not just wise to hold their position.
26:39Jason Johnson:Frankly, at this point, I would I would be the wire. Yesterday's price ain't today's price. I would be going back and saying, look, we offered you this. We're going to ask for more, because if you're going to be that recalcitrant, why should we hold back? Why should we just make it abundantly clear what the American people actually need? If the Republicans were smart, they would cut a deal and pay for Obamacare subsidies for three years, just pushing off to the 2020 election. But as long as this keeps going on, their party will continue to fail. And even if the government opens back up, people are going to blame them for this.
27:10Jason Johnson:And they're still going to be married. They're still going to be angry by next fall's midterm elections. I want to show some of the headlines for Mike Johnson, Michelle, because he's trying to play this a certain way. But as it grinds on, you see what's the point. He won't bring the House back. He refuses to promise a vote on the Obamacare subsidies, which is, of course, the issue. Maybe some Republicans could defect. MTG, who's often seen as coming from the right, calling him out. You know, we haven't had any person be a long term Republican speaker and they have a narrow margin. I'm curious, now that we're kind of a year into this experiment under the new Trump era, what you think?
27:52You know, I have never been one of these people that thinks that everything is about the Epstein files. But I really do think that that has something to do with him not wanting to call the House back into session. Right. As soon as he calls vows back into session and has to swear in the new representative, Gervalja, from Arizona, they're going to have enough votes to pass the discharge petition to release the Epstein files. And so I can't think of another good reason for him to do what he's doing, because, I mean, everything else aside, just the optics of it, the optics of saying we're not going to work.
28:37You know, we expect all these other people to work without getting paid, but we're going to refuse. It's just so bad. Yeah, I mean, it's not unlike Great Gatsby parties. It's almost just galling that they are taking what is for them paid time off because they're not holding votes and they're not meeting up and they're not even pretending to gather and vote on what could be the negotiated solution, as you say, while other people work without pay and go to food banks. It's really something. But Tuesday shows that the voters have something to say about it as well. Jason and Michelle, thank you both on a range of topics.
29:15Interesting stuff. Coming up, we will show you how South Park is taking no prisoners. They have millions of viewers, and in their own funny way, they say Trump is dead wrong to demolish the East Wing. Also, the setbacks for Trump in the courts on what has been one of the worst weeks of his second term. We have that with Emily Bazelon.
29:34Jason Johnson:Next. Exterior Remodels, Inner Monologues, brought to you by Power.
29:39Emily Bazelon:The house looks good. Like, really good. That siding? Stunning. The roof? Elevated. Windows? I mean, wow. The process? Smooth. The neighbors? Jealous. Choose Power Home Remodeling and remodel how you think about remodeling.
29:58Jason Johnson:Schedule your free quote on windows, siding, roofing, and doors at powerhomeremodeling.com. Power. Our work shows. We've been the trusted experts since 1960 because nobody knows tires better than we do. And with over 90 tire brands, we have an abundance of options in stock for your vehicle. Buy and drive today at DiscountTire.com. Let's get you taken care of. At Strayer University, we help students like you go from will I to why not? For over 130 years, we've been innovating higher education to make it more affordable, accessible, and attainable so you can reach your goals. Go from thinking, can I?
30:38Jason Johnson:To yes, I can. And keep striving. Visit Strayer.edu to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Shev and as many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street North in Arlington, Virginia.
30:56There's really no doubt that this week was Donald Trump's worst week yet in his first term. It signaled a rejection of his agenda, panic for Republicans, and an onboard to a midterms and lame duck future that could hurt him. It's also been a bad week for him in court over the shutdown issues that hurt him in Virginia and elsewhere on Tuesday. So it's all a bit related. But a judge is sparring with Trump over the fate of those food benefits. The administration folded in a way. They say they'll make the November funds available by the end of the day under the judge's order, but they're also appealing it.
31:29So they are following the law, we can report that, while still taking the position that they want the government to try extra hard to deny people these benefits. The judge stated that the Trump administration basically violated the prior order that they, quote, did nothing to ensure the food benefits would be delivered on time during this week when they've been busy with these other problems. The vice president suggests the problem here is the judge. It's an absurd ruling because you have a federal judge effectively telling us what we have to do in the midst of a Democrat government shutdown. We're not going to do it under the orders of a federal judge.
32:06We're going to do it according to what we think we have to do to comply with the law, of course. What you hear there is another statement where it sounds like someone thinks they are the final word on the law. Judge also admonishing ICE agents for their use of force in Chicago. Again, part of the pushback this week, noting it shocks the conscience what some agents were caught doing and government officials had repeatedly lied about their tactics, as well as the actions of the protesters that they were sometimes basically attacking with tear gas and other measures that the judges concerned were excessive.
32:42We're waiting on an Oregon judge to decide whether Trump violated the law with the entire deployment of the Guard there. Trump faces a backlash over the way he's deployed both soldiers and the feds, including multiple cities that are facing a level of basically now ongoing military-style oversight for no actual reason that the administration has been able to justify in court. Then you have New York City, where they have a new Democratic Socialist mayor-elect, and that could raise a lot of tension because the Trump administration also is looking at an immigration crackdown there. So, a lot going on.
33:18The political headlines of what the voters are rejecting. are backed up by some of what the judges are concerned about. The New York Times' Emily Bazelon joins me as our special legal guest on all of this next.
33:36We are back on the Friday, capping quite a week. Many setbacks for Donald Trump in court, from ICE agent conduct and enforcement to the ongoing food benefits clash in the shutdown. And we're joined by Emily Bazelon, the New York Times Magazine legal writer. Happy Friday, Emily. How are you?
33:55Emily Bazelon:Hey, I'm pretty good, Ari. Nice to be here. Great to have you. It was a big week on the elections. That's obviously driven a lot of news. We like to have you, especially on Fridays. And then I heard you would only talk law, not the elections. So here we are. We built this whole segment for you. What do you see in the courts this week at a time where there do seem to be headwinds against the administration? Yeah, we've seen at this point more than 100 judges rule against the Trump administration's policies of mandatory detention for people who ICE picks up and just increasing, I think, dismay from judges about the tactics that ICE is using on the street.
34:34Emily Bazelon:We've now seen this in Portland, in Washington, in Chicago, where the administration comes in and they make assertions in court. And then witnesses come and talk about what's actually happening. And those two things are really different from each other. And the judges can see it. And this judge who we saw this week ruling on Chicago said that the government was lying, in particular that the ICE official who's supposed to be in charge said that he got hit with a rock before he threw canisters of tear gas. And that just wasn't true from the video. So this idea of the judges really scrutinizing the facts on the ground and testing the administration's claims, it's so important.
35:18Emily Bazelon:I mean, Ari, as you know, courts are for finding facts. That's what judges do. And you can really see them upholding that standard. And it does not go well so far for the Trump administration when they do that. Right. And this this DOJ is strained in more than one way. It's defending what sometimes look like long shot or losing cases. And that's always been the DOJ's job as long as they don't violate their oaths when they have a government to defend in court. While they're on offense with very flimsy cases against Trump's opponents. And then you have the question of their overall credibility. There is a deference in many cases, especially national security, that judges give.
35:59And yet you just remind everyone why they're blowing that up. And if that continues, you get to the Supreme Court. And even apart from who appoints and whom, you may have more skepticism on the rationale. Now, the ICE agents are obviously busy. Here's a headline that the detainee population is now at a record high and it's up 70 percent since January. Since Mr. Trump took office, they know the previous high was in his first term in 19 when they held 56000 detainees. I mentioned that because this is something that came up when I interviewed Stephen Miller and others before they came back into office.
36:35They view this partly as a messaging effort that you have to do more so that it's harder to be here or get in here or stay here. But at the end of the day, those numbers are also striking because you are not going to change the national labor force when the number is 50 or 70 ,000.
36:54Emily Bazelon:That's right. I mean, there's always this kind of push and pull with immigration. Right. And as long as there are jobs here and people can work those jobs, whether they have documents or not, people are going to want to come. Now, it is true that there are far fewer people crossing the border. But what the Trump administration is trying to do is to get people to leave. And there's just a limited amount that even tens of thousands of people in detention is going to accomplish when people are still working. And, of course, there is a kind of broader solution to all of this that Congress has not yet agreed on.
37:29Emily Bazelon:But if you have more people who have permits to work here legally, then they can work those jobs legally. And that is one way of just sort of straightening out these dynamics. But instead, we have this current situation where we have no comprehensive immigration reform. And then we have these really quite brutal tactics on the ground that are being used against people. Yeah. Yeah, it's really striking. I want to show another headline. We've talked about the law firms and universities. Rachel, in our coverage this week and others pointed out that if Trump's kind of popularity has been overstated and his political power has been overstated and they're losing elections in a year from now, things could look very different than striking, expensive long term deals under this framework may just be bad tactics, separate from whether you think it's right.
38:18Cornell University reached a$60 million deal with Trump to restore its funding. They were going to pay the government$30 million over three years and then invest in research that strengthens U.S. agriculture. Full disclosure, I happen to go to Cornell, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't criticize them when I was there. Some of the law school courses were too long, in my opinion, Emily. And I'm not sure that they timed this very well, although their argument is they've got a lot of work to do, and they didn't want to have to start firing people who would have become collateral damage. So I want to fairly report that.
38:52But what do you think about the timing of this? Is this really, after Tuesday, a time to give in?
38:58Emily Bazelon:Well, it's going to land with a thud after Tuesday. I'm sure it's something they've been working on for a long time. You know, one thing that is striking about this agreement, as opposed to the agreement with Colombia and the beginning of these settlements, Columbia agreed to have an outside monitor really overseeing its compliance. And I think a lot of people at Columbia worried that the university was giving away some of its independence. You don't see Cornell doing that. So that's a distinction. You do, however, see Cornell agreeing to train its whole staff on the Trump administration's ideas about DEI and also turning over a lot of data about admissions.
39:38Emily Bazelon:And I think, you know, some of that data the Justice Department is going to require of all the schools. But when you get into really detailed data about race and the places kids come from and grades and SAT scores, that is, you know, potentially going to make it it's going to be a disincentive for universities to continue to think about diversity in a holistic way if they're worried about the government looking over their shoulder through the whole process. Mm hmm. I appreciate the details. Good nuance. And Emily, have a great weekend. Thanks for joining us. You too, Ari. Thanks a lot. Absolutely.
40:17I got to tell you, we tell you what's coming up. You do not want to miss what we're going to show you next because this unpopular renovation was roasted along with Epstein and a lot more in an episode of South Park. You got to see.
40:36This shutdown is hitting the most vulnerable among us in our nation heading into this weekend and then the holidays, many going without food because food benefits have been halted. And Trump wants them to continue without food while the administration is appealing court orders that would require people actually get their food benefits. But instead of that, The administration's plowing ahead with the East Wing demolition to create this ballroom. That's the real world news over in South Park, the cartoon comedy land. They are keeping up with the news almost in real time and slamming all of this.
41:11I want to show Democrats slamming the president over these priorities. This guy wants to create a ballroom for his rich friends while completely turning a blind eye to the fact that that babies are going to be a ballroom. starve when the SNAP benefits end in just hours from now? Come on. That's real world Democrats, of course, Kamala Harris, who says she warned about this. South Park's cartoon comedy has been relentlessly mocking Donald Trump and his aides personally, also going on policy. And here they are on this.
42:00Okay, so then over here is where you're going to have the big golden pillars that you guys wanted. Oh, yeah, that's great. Okay, and then right over here is where we're going to put your dance floor. Right. If you notice Satan in the picture, the cartoon imagines Trump in a kind of a tryst with the Lord of Darkness. They also go after A.G. Bondi and others, including real-world references to alleged corruption.
42:32Restless spirit, we only wish to communicate. Oh, deception! Deception!
42:46Jason Johnson:Ugh, maybe we should stop this. No, I want to hear what it has to say. Oh, Epstein. No, no, you're right. Let's stop this.
43:01The cartoon version of Donald Trump also doesn't want the news if it's bad. And then they take something that Americans are still learning about, the length that this administration is going to profit off crypto, and they mock that.
43:15Jason Johnson:There's an opportunity to truly make your voices heard. introducing the South Park Sucks Now cryptocurrency coin. This digital meme token is your way to be a part of the fastest growing community in America. This used to be a great town before all the politics came and ruined it all. Get in on our crypto meme coin with this incredible pre-sale offer. Yes? Ah, yes, I'm with the South Park Sucks Now cryptocurrency. We're trying to f*** a bunch of people out of their money. Is Don Jr. around? Ah, yes, he's been expecting you. South Park imagines a world where the government is colluding with greedy people that cheat you out of your own money and sell you bad ideas and worthless crypto.
43:58But is it just a cartoon? We'll be right back. All right. You got to see this. And the only thing you need to know is what you probably already know from this week. Suddenly, Democrats have a spring in their step. Donald Trump is on defense. all of pop culture seems to have registered what went down on Tuesday. And top Democrat, California Governor Gavin Newsom, is going back into his playbook, quoting the ever-popular Taylor Swift to make new references that basically dunk on Donald Trump. I'm pretty the family.
44:36Emily Bazelon:I was your father figure. We drank that brown liquor. You made a deal with this devil. Turns out my dick's bigger. You want to fight?
44:48Jason Johnson:You found it. You want to fight? You found it. Taylor goes on to say, I got the place surrounded. A reference to knowing how to win when you outnumber the opposition, which apparently Democrat Gavin Newsom feels he clearly does. His team is turning the tables on Trump using the Internet. That was a real social post they did. and a feel for how to get people talking to tell Donald Trump he's losing. And Gavin Newsom is the bigger political figure, almost a father figure. That's how we sign off tonight. Have a great weekend. I'll see you Monday at 6 p.m. Eastern. Is it possible for AI to work in the enterprise?
45:33Jason Johnson:The short answer is yes. The long answer is, oh, yes. Users can pick the AI providers they prefer, and you can decide which data is off limits, monitor all AI activity, and control every detail. This is Enterprise AI from Ireland. AI at its best by keeping out the worst. Scaled for the Enterprise. From Ireland.
From the publisher
November 7, 2025; 6pm: Polling shows that affordability and economic anxiety drove the GOP losses as millions of Americans are going to food banks unable to access their SNAP benefits, MSNBC's Ari Melber reports. New York Times' Michelle Goldberg, Emily Bazelon, and MSNBC's Jason Johnson join. Plus, hundreds of flights have been CANCELED and even more delayed as the shutdown triggers reductions in airspace capacity.
To listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads, sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts.
Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.