Trump on Defense Over Democracy from Venezuela to Jan. 6

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0:46Welcome to The Beat. I'm Ari Melber. There is a lot going on, but today marks something significant. five years since the January 6th attack, later ruled by the courts in a convicted sedition, which was the biggest thing going on five years ago tonight. I bet you remember where you were that night, the days after. It uprooted a long tradition of the peaceful transfer of power in the United States because Donald Trump had lost the election, President-elect Biden was coming into office, and the violence perpetrated by the people later convicted who were summoned there by Donald Trump meant we didn't have an actual peaceful transfer.

1:27It took what had been rhetoric and later punished in court as defamatory lies and Trump's big lie and turned it into crime and action. All because so many people took action, including criminal violence against police, under the claim or the belief that Trump didn't actually lose the election he lost. Five years later, much has happened. and we are also approaching the one-year mark of Donald Trump's second term. And that one-year mark is also the anniversary of the sweeping pardons he issued, not for some on those days, not for, say, a few people where you could have looked at their individual case, or even people who didn't actually carry out violence, although that would be itself controversial given that they stormed the Capitol, committing crimes against the Congress, the United States itself, but he issued the sweeping pardons for everyone.

2:20The violent actors, the people convicted of sedition, people who had long, long prison terms left to serve, he freed them. And so the split screen moment of our time at the Capitol tonight is Trump supporters actually returning to the scene of the crime. We've all heard about how you shouldn't return to the scene of the crime. That's why that's a cliched term. But they're doing it because unlike any other president in modern history, they are backed in their past convicted crimes by the sitting president. We don't need to raise our voices or have a lot of emotion or rhetoric to just underscore how wrong that is.

2:58the person who is supposed to carry out the faithful execution of the law, supporting breaking the law by people who would have ended our democracy if their crime spree worked. So those pardoned rioters back in town, House Democrats holding the other side of the ledger, hearing about the rule of law, and of course still dealing with the fact that the sitting president has the most anti-police agenda in modern history, having pardoned and freed all those people who were otherwise going to be punished for their violent crimes against police. It is a fact that Donald Trump is the most soft-on-crime anti-police president in his second term of any in the modern era.

3:43The hearing spoke with the actual Capitol Police who risked their lives that day. There were other members of Congress involved. And there was even someone who reflected on their crime. Donald Trump and far-right extremists in Congress have repeatedly attempted to rewrite history and whitewash the horrific events of January 6th. We gather to continue to uphold our oath to support and defend the Constitution. Pardoning criminals who severely beat me and my fellow officers that day is completely unacceptable. I am truly sorry from the bottom of my heart for being part of the mob that put you and so many officers in danger.

4:36That's today. Living history, as they say. As for the march by the once convicted, now pardoned convicts, that included one of the leaders who had shown through basically their actions and now their further lack of remorse, as well as the evidence laid out by the DOJ after Jan 6th. Enrico Tarrio has showed that this wasn't some spontaneous riot as we were first told, as the cover stories went, because people planned it and organized it and planned formations and met in secret and always had plans to go in and try to do by force and violence what they could not achieve at the ballot box because Trump had lost.

5:16The Proud Boys veteran spoke today. Would you do anything differently if you could? The problem is I wouldn't do anything differently because I didn't do anything wrong. You know, am I guilty of celebrating what happened on the day of January 6th? Of course. The president has said in the past, our proud boys stand back and stand by. Are you guys standing by the president? We've always stood by the president. I've said that since day one. And on it went. Now, it is easy with time in general to forget how things felt and occurred at the time. the actual facts. And in our current era, with a president who's been caught lying by fact checkers more than any other modern politician, and a lot of corporate pressure to spin or minimize or distort what you hear, a censorship campaign in the second term, as well as the whole weird fake news tech AI world we're in where people see stuff and they say, is this real?

6:16Is that real? I just want to remind you tonight, and this is a fitting time to deal in facts, that we know what happened that day and we know how the members of both parties viewed what happened. And the Democrats have been consistent about that and people can debate the politics of all this if they want. But even the Republicans who were, of course, talking in essence to their own Republican leader in Trump who'd lost and some of the fans who clearly were upset, the Republicans at the time were then unanimous about how wrong Trump and the insurrection actions were. This failed insurrection only underscores how crucial the task before us is for our republic.

7:00We had police officers, the men and women that we walked by every single day to guard the doors and we say hello to, out there with riot gear getting spit on and attacked. All I can say is count me out. Enough is enough. You just heard from senior Republicans, not just some random grouping. You have the Senate leader at the time. You have Marco Rubio, who was very clear that he said he was against that attack on police that Trump had fomented. Now, of course, you know he's helping Trump with anything he wants as a key top cabinet member. And Lindsey Graham, who was just on the plane with Trump defending the Venezuela actions and other things, they said count them out.

7:39Now, of course, we know what's happened since then. But it's actually deeper than that. And this is important in a time where people, your government, is sometimes lying to you and other entities, including powerful corporations, are sometimes kind of doing what they can to just stay out of Trump's way and try to get through the next three years. Reality, though, matters. Don't let them trick you about that. And so if we need evidence of just how obviously wrong this was at the time, after it occurred, and I just showed you what the top Republicans had said, and the courts were looking at this, and the next administration was expected to have a normal lawful DOJ, which of course would investigate and potentially prosecute, as they did, these crimes at the Congress, even Donald Trump felt the need to publicly say something that you almost can't imagine him admitting to now today, that he viewed that attack, he said, he claimed, as heinous, outrageous, lawless, violent mayhem that he opposed.

8:35Take a look. I would like to begin by addressing the heinous attack on the United States Capitol. Like all Americans, I am outraged by the violence, lawlessness, and mayhem. To those who engage in the acts of violence and destruction, you do not represent our country. And to those who broke the law, you will pay.

9:04He was lying. he was trying to protect himself. He had seen his insurrection fail, and he knew that within two weeks he would really be out of office. And he knew as someone who's tangled in the law before that he could be in trouble himself. And later he was, of course, indicted for a whole series of crimes, legally presumed innocent. He was not convicted, as you know. But think about that. Donald Trump, to save himself, was claiming that it was bad and wrong and they would be punished. And yet, in a hypocritical development that we've all lived through and now has become normalized for some, not only did he back off saying they should be punished, he freed them all.

9:48Trump was impeached by the House a second time. And it's easy to look back with hindsight and say, oh, well, we know what happened. But he may have had some level of worry that if he were actually convicted in the Senate, he could never run for office again. And then, remember, those trials wouldn't have been delayed forever. And who knows what would have happened. So even if you think that was a small risk, it wasn't zero. And he was out to save himself. There were over a thousand total convictions pursuing to that day. Special Counsel Smith indicted Trump, recently testified about it. and concluded, at least from the DOJ's view, that Trump had that multi-part plan to overturn the election and that the violence was a part of it that he benefited from.

10:30Jamie Raskin, a key member of that committee, writes in the Times now that we're still caught up in a struggle between forces who are willing to use authoritarian violence and those who stand up nonviolently for our Constitution. Neither side can claim victory, yet he reminds America, because it's still very much Jan 6. in America. That is the standoff tonight. It is a big deal no matter what, but it also comes after a weekend where Donald Trump showed his complete lack of support, interest, or even claim for democracy abroad, which is no surprise when you remember that five years ago, he was the leader trying to stop democracy right here at home.

11:14We have a special guest on this important story right now, Democratic Congressman Madeleine Dean, served as the January 6th impeachment manager. That was for the second impeachment after the January 6th attack. Thank you for being here. I wonder if first you might share any of your reflections just on hearing and seeing that video again of both the Republicans, your colleagues, but also the president claiming at the time, Donald Trump, that these were heinous acts of violence and people should pay. Well, I thank you, Ari, for being sure to cover and remember this day. We have to continue to remember this day and call it out for the atrocious insurrection incited by a sitting president that it was, an attack on this citadel, this seat of power that is such an important representation of American strength and democracy and justice.

12:05I was here five years ago. I was was up in the gallery with many other members and actually members of the press as well when all hell broke loose. I was also in the hearing today and very glad to hear the testimony of many folks. I won't spend one minute on those who came to commemorate their violent acts who have been pardoned by the president of the United States. I won't spend a minute on them. What I will spend a minute on are the heroes, the police officers, Capitol police officers, municipal police, ultimately the National Guard and others who came to save us, to protect us, from a mob that the president invited, he incited, then he sent them to the Capitol, lying to them all along, saying, I'll be there with you.

12:54I'll go alongside with you. And of course he did not. And then when they broke in using Trump flags, Confederate flags, American flags to beat Capitol police officers and hunt down Speaker Pelosi, his own vice president. What did the president do? He sat for 187 minutes as his team implored him to call off the violence, as his family members implored him. 187 minutes. That is unforgivable. And for him to come in day one of this second term, Shame on him. Forgiving, pardoning more than 1 ,500 people for their crimes against this country. Police officers lost their lives. The president's trying to whitewash history.

13:45He can't do it. He can't, by pardoning them, somehow pardon himself. It's a grotesque act by a very small president. I hear you. When you look at how pressure works, his concern about the second impeachment, his concern that I mentioned of future legal liability, it did seem to affect him. We hear a lot of, you know, trolling or touting about, oh, maybe the law doesn't matter. Do you see any lessons there that the Democrats who even had a debate, why bother impeaching someone who's on the way out anyway, etc., you remember that keeping up the pressure for the rule of law does matter, even against people who've proven they don't personally care about it.

14:30I always believed it mattered. It was really probably the solemn, saddest, high honor of my service here that Speaker Pelosi asked me to serve alongside Jamie Raskin and seven others as an impeachment manager on impeachment two for this president, we always knew the risk of not being able to get the vote. We had the facts. We had the evidence. It was so clear that this president was guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors under the Constitution. And we focused in on incitement to insurrection. We didn't do a laundry list of all of the crimes of this president. We did one, incitement to insurrection.

15:07I remember being in that safe room after we were hauled out in our gas masks and looking up the word insurrection, Ari, because I thought I've studied about insurrection, but I'm pretty sure I've never been in one. We were literally in an insurrection because of a president who couldn't stand to lose. And I really fault the leaders who originally stood up. Mr. McCarthy stood up, outraged at the behavior of the president, calling him culpable. Mr. McConnell, as we prosecuted the case in the Senate. It was staggering to me to see him stand during the vote and say not guilty. And then within minutes with a prepared speech, then say the president is responsible.

15:53He spoke out of both sides of his mouth. Any one of them could have turned this around and this president would not have been president again. Shame on them. You mentioned that that day, I think we do have a photo pulled here of you and others in the House gallery with the gas masks and the level of protection and precaution that had to be taken given that that attack. I've only got 30, 40 seconds left. What do you say to Americans going forward here? Never forget. If we forget, if we allow this president and the Speaker of the House, by the way, he put us in a basement meeting room. He declined four different requests for rooms for this hearing today.

16:36Never forget. We won't forget. And also, listen to the testimony, and you just featured it, of a woman I only met today, 72-year-old Idaho woman. Her name is Pamela. Oh, I want to get it right. I'm forgetting it. But Ms. Pamela from Idaho, and I had the chance to meet her. She was here, and she was pardoned by the president. She was convicted. She was sentenced to 60 days. She was offered a pardon by the president. And you know what she did? She declined it. What amazing woman of humility and courage to publicly say, I was wrong. I was guilty of this crime. I will not accept the pardon. And she sat there and apologized to all Capitol Police officers.

17:20And she said she won't rest until the plaque is up and the Capitol Police officers get their due. So to America, the fabric of America is very strong. And these weak courtiers around the president will not succeed as they are harming many, many Americans right now. Congresswoman Dean, thank you for everything you've shared with us tonight. We appreciate your time. Thank you. Absolutely. Later tonight, we have James Carville here with a lot going on. Looking forward to that. We have a fact check on the DOJ breaking the Epstein law, something that Trump wants to go away but isn't, and the gambling on the oil imperialism when we're back in 90 seconds.

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20:07Trump has been vowing to seize Venezuela's oil following the Maduro operation. And this is something he related to our colleague, Joe Scarborough, who reported on a new conversation with President Trump. I asked him, I said, Mr. President, when you say, quote, we're going to run everything, it obviously causes deep concerns because of the disaster in Iraq. The president's response, Joe, the difference between Iraq and this is that Bush didn't keep the oil. We're going to keep the oil. A striking admission, Bush denied that oil was the key or even a major motive for the Iraq war because admitting that would have been a scandal.

20:56This is the kind of thing that fact checks itself and is laughable if it weren't so serious. Here's Jon Stewart.

21:05We can't even be conspiracy theorists now. I think they did it for the oil. Yeah, no, I did it for the oil. Is there any other reason? Can you give us anything? There's a lot of issues, human rights violations, political prisoners down in Venezuela. We could certainly free them and improve the lives of dissidents. Are you going to demand that Tulsi Rodriguez let opposition figures return or free any political prisoners? We haven't gotten to that yet. Right now, what we want to do is fix up the oil, fix up the country. you. Having gotten to that, I guess the oil plans are more important than the actual Americans who, because of Maduro's rule, are under unlawful detention, according to many experts.

21:49The Wall Street Journal reported a month back Trump did give oil executives some sort of hint saying, get ready. But tapping the oil reserves in Venezuela will require planning and investment for years. American oil companies are wary of reentering. They've already been through this. Trump suggests reimbursing the companies. How does that sound? A bailout for oil companies? Unreal. There are also fears about how Trump sees this as a positive, even as Americans are recoiling from the policy. The target on Cuba, as the Post puts it, European leaders rallying about and against the idea that you could seize Greenland or other sovereign territories.

22:27Here's Stephen Miller. we live in a world in the real world jake that is governed by strength that is governed by force that is governed by power these are the iron laws of the world but are you saying that the beginning of time we have a complete embargo on all of their oil and their ability to do commerce so the united states is in charge united states is running so the country during this transition period you invaded the country, we went into the country and we seized the leader of Venezuela. Damn straight we did.

23:05Damn straight. I told you to understand this story and where we're going. We do actually need to understand the follies of the past that even Donald Trump, for political reasons maybe, once claimed he understood regime change, nation building, endless wars. I have two very smart dialed in guests on this exact point next.

23:31I'm joined by Max Boot, a senior fellow with the Council on Foreign Relations, also with The Washington Post and Jack Nickus, the Mexico bureau chief for The New York Times, where he's led coverage of Latin America and really fronted a lot of the reporting on this whole operation. Max, your view on Jon Stewart's point that what was once a scandalous conspiracy theory admission is now Trump's stated reason. Yeah, it's pretty crazy, Ari. In some ways, we've gone from neoconservatism 20 years ago during the war in Iraq to neocolonialism now in the war on Venezuela. And you can make the case that neocons, and that was a tendency I was associated with at the time, maybe had an excess of idealism, thinking they could implant democracy in the barren soil of Iraq.

24:20But Trump is absolutely devoid of any idealism whatsoever. It's all completely cynical. It's basically being sold, and I think it really is just a resource grab. He thinks he can use the U.S. military to go around the world and to grab other countries' mineral resources. And in this case, he's trying to do it without occupying Venezuela, basically by blackmailing the Maduro regime minus Madero, now led by Madero's handpicked vice president. He's basically saying, we will continue this blockade of Venezuela until you give us the oil. So what he's basically threatening Venezuela with is complete poverty, possibly famine, horrible conditions for the people of Venezuela unless their government agrees to some kind of concessions to the U.S.

25:08with their oil industry. This is not how I would expect a country like the United States or America to be behaving. This is how countries like China and Russia behave. It's just so frustrating and appalling, especially when you can see the case for arresting Madero. He was actually a bad guy. who was oppressing his own people, but the people of Venezuela don't want Maduro being replaced by his minions. That's not what they're asking for. Jack, what's important to you based on the reporting you're doing from the region? I think the point Max just made at the end there is really critical, is that the Maduro regime is still in control in Venezuela.

25:48The people who, you know, still were running the country are still running the country. Today, in fact, there was a large march in Caracas, including Venezuelan government officials broadcast on state television that was calling for Maduro's release. The president, the new interim leader, Delce Rodriguez, went on television and said, we are running the country. And there is also at the same time a crackdown on anyone who is supporting the capture of Maduro. So there is essentially been a state of emergency put out. There are government checkpoints. There are searches of citizen cell phones. There has been the detainment of at least two people who were celebrating the capture of Maduro.

26:32And so the question of human rights does not seem to be within the White House's purview right now. It does seem to be about the oil. And that may be because, you know, you think to Saudi Arabia, this is an ally of the United States, a country that is a big provider of oil. Human rights doesn't seem to be much of an issue in those dealings with that country. facts um max if you told americans going into the holiday break that we were going to go try to run a country double the size of iraq uh they wouldn't be into it and if you ask them who was running venezuela um or where it is with all due respect to everybody i hope learning as much as possible wouldn't be top of mind because this has not been uh something americans want on the left or the right or a geostrategic point of interest.

27:18And Donald Trump has his hands full at home. Ironically, this was the arguments he used to make. Deal with prices, inflation, quality of life, and don't be distracted by things abroad unless they are core security interests. Some of that is informed in the jokes that are going around. I mean, this thing, we don't know yet how it plays, but a lot of folks aren't into it this week other than the respect for the army did what it was asked to do without any American casualties, great. But the policy is up for debate. And here's how Light Night is hitting it. Take a look, Max. He's going to run Venezuela?