Trump Retreats from Greenland Threats

0:00Cash Now More Later from Opendoor gives you cash up front for your home plus all the profit later. That's no chaos now, no cash left behind later. Skip the showings now, pocket extra profit later. This is so simple now. This is so awesome later. Or sell fast now and pop the champagne later. Cash Now More Later, now available nationwide. Start your offer at opendoor.com slash radio. Profits calculated after fees and costs. Eligibility and offer price may vary. Courage. I learned it from my adoptive mom. Hold my hand. You hold my hand. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care at AdoptUSKids.org.

0:40You can't imagine the reward. Brought to you by AdoptUSKids, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council.

0:45Ty Cobb:Welcome to The Beat. I'm Ari Melber. Tonight we're reporting on the international chaos that defines Trump's January. The president repeatedly threatening a once unthinkable step, attacking our European allies or invading Greenland, all so that the U.S. might take that country by force, something you may recall from recent Putin foreign policy. Now, after major pushback, which includes U.S. lawmakers condemning Trump's war talk, European leaders fighting fire with fire, they've talked about an economic bazooka to go back and hurt the U.S. for Trump's sort of economic war of choice. And then the mounting tremors in the financial markets this week, the biggest stock drop in months, which then rebounded today.

1:27Ty Cobb:With all this going down, Trump is backing off. He says he's taking military action off the table as he arrived and then spoke and at times ranted at foreign leaders and bankers at the Davos Summit in Switzerland. All of this leading to backtracking that international outlets call a climb down from his threats. So it's a lot. And this reflects a common Trump dynamic. the bluster, the sweeping claims, the threats to use basically unilateral, unreviewable powers that any president has, but few have used like this. And that obviously requires people and countries to react only after much effort, which might have been spent on other things and market jitters and the rest I just mentioned, only after all that to try to just get Trump to stop doing the thing that so many people think is damaging.

2:18Ty Cobb:In this case, getting him to retract, trim, or outright surrender this threat of a war with Europe that most Americans are like, are you serious? Now on tariffs, they call this whole dance taco. Trump always chickens out. The Greenland fight comes with fresh concerns about not only Trump's policies, right, which is a fancy word for starting a war, and does anyone in this country want him to start that war or threaten to start that war? And how long would Americans really sit by and support an invasion or war with allied European countries? That's the policy. But I can tell you tonight, we are seeing fresh concerns about Trump's temperament, his acumen, and his mental acuity.

3:03Ty Cobb:And I am reporting this for you, so I will report on what is driving these concerns, how Trump is acting, as well as who we're hearing this from. Sometimes it's blind quotes, people who don't want to be quoted because they don't want the retaliation this administration so often dishes out. Internationally, there are concerns about three more years of this and how to manage it. And there are people who've seen Trump up close and in private. His first term White House lawyer, Ty Cobb, making a bunch of headlines today for news that he shared last night. So that sort of broke on the beat. Mr. Cobb sharing with us his view of what he sees as his former boss, Donald Trump's cognitive decline.

3:47Ty Cobb:I think there's been a significant decline. He's always been driven by narcissism, but I think the dementia and the cognitive decline are palpable, as do many experts, including many physicians. I don't think there's anybody outside of the United States who believes that Trump is sane. Outside the United States is the audience Trump engaged with today. Mr. Cobb saying that last night, as we all knew, the president was headed for a high-stakes summit amidst all of this Greenland talk. And Trump had an odd outing today, even for him. He clearly confused Greenland and Iceland repeatedly. That drew notice and concern from independent observers about his acuity, as well as more broadly the ongoing apparently impulsive, volatile, and disinhibited behavior.

4:40Ty Cobb:Now let's be clear. This doesn't happen in a vacuum no matter what people think of Donald Trump, his policies, or these recent threats for war. We have a particular political system in America, and for many reasons it favors incumbents and seniority. Officials in both parties in this country have been seen living up all the way to their demise and dying in office. That's true from the courts to the Congress. Trump is the third president in our modern era to face questions of age and fitness based on the actual age of the person, how they seemed in public, not a medical diagnosis, and any visible conduct.

5:20Ty Cobb:He is not immune or separate or distinct from how other presidents in both parties have faced that. And this is a democracy where public scrutiny comes with the job. Foreign leaders, U.S. counterparts, they're all assessing Trump as he goes over time, like the questions faced by the presidents you see on your screen. This is an off limits by precedent. And then separately, when it comes to how credible these concerns are and whether this is an inbounds thing that you ask about a sitting president, Well, Trump and his team, of course, pressed exactly these types of questions on Joe Biden in 2024.

5:57Ty Cobb:Indeed, ultimately, for a host of reasons related to conduct, age and political viability, he was the latest candidate to ever abandon presidential race as an incumbent. Trump's polling, though, is also slumping lower than most second term presidents. There's a growing protest movement at home. He's got a midterm panic, and I actually have a report on that later tonight about how he's trying to game that and why it may not work. But all of that brings me to what I'm showing you now. Trump's volatile conduct, lashing out on the world stage, showing that apparent confusion. This is a core part of these wider problems that he's facing in a rocky term, to say the least, that is heading towards midterms and his lame duck era.

6:42We have pretty much a concept of a deal. A deal of ownership, a deal... Well, it's a little bit complex, but we'll explain it down the line. People thought I would use force. I don't have to use force. I don't want to use force. I won't use force. Without us, right now, you'd all be speaking German and a little Japanese, perhaps. They're not there for us on Iceland, that I can tell you. Emmanuel Macron, I watched him yesterday with those beautiful sunglasses. Canada lives because of the United States. I mean, our stock market took the first dip yesterday because of Iceland. Very smart man said, he's our daddy.

7:17So Iceland's already cost us a lot of money.

7:21Ty Cobb:Correction. The markets did not dip because of Iceland. Another correction. U.S. allies did not abandon the U.S. on any policy related to Iceland. And another correction. Iceland has not cost the U.S. money. now the White House could say Trump misspoke in context he was talking about this ongoing Greenland policy and that's clearly what he meant they could say he's impacted like many people even younger than him by a grueling travel schedule jet lag and the like but instead I can report for you tonight the White House is showing they clearly fear any crack or acknowledgement of a rational discussion of what everyone just heard.

8:12Ty Cobb:Instead, they're claiming Trump was making up a new nickname for Greenland on the spot. And that confusingly, his new nickname happens to overlap with the Nordic country of Iceland, but is, Trump aides say, actually his new freezing cold term for Greenland. It's cold, and he calls it Iceland.

8:38Ty Cobb:what's next is the white house going to claim trump was really just maybe referring to ice man the forthcoming drake album these are two men who are facing criticism they've lost a step and don't have the standing they once did but that would be silly just as it is silly to claim that he was talking about an ice land and not clearly confusing the name of a country that he yesterday was threatening to invade, and today, three times over, can't name the country. The White House defense is silly and laughable, but this is no joke for the rest of the world. Not when Putin's Kremlin is cheering on an American president using time, energy, and potentially military power to undercut American interests and attack our European allies, and do so in a way that helps Russia, hurts the U.S.

9:30Ty Cobb:and Europe, and is basically inexplicable, which is why people are reaching for other types of analysis. Like, is there some other reason to undercut America? Is there corruption? Is there a slipping of the overall mental acuity, as his own former aides have questioned? The Russia problem is being identified right there by the conservative Wall Street Journal, Rupert Murdoch's paper, a reminder that if you actually look at different sources where people who care about things, be it American safety and national security, or the public markets, or the bond market, or international reality as we know it, it's not such a clean picture of, oh, everyone defends Trump on everything.

10:13Ty Cobb:Because when certain things are this indefensible, you actually find people don't defend them. And Trump backs down tonight, even as he can't quite name which country he is backing down from invading. I want to bring in Ambassador McFaul, who is the Obama ambassador to Russia in that administration. He's at Stanford. He's the author of Autocrats vs. Democrats. Ambassador, it could be laughable if the stakes weren't high. Your view of the policy problem here, and does it matter if a sitting president, in this case Donald Trump, seems to be that confused about which country he might invade and how to explain himself?

10:58Well, Ari, first I want to start with the good news that you already alluded to. You and I are not talking about the probabilistic how many hours or days it's going to take for us to invade Greenland. That's good news. We're not talking about wasting billions and billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars to purchase Greenland. That's good news. And third, to a point you just alluded to as well, this happened not because of what Trump told us a week ago, that the only check on his power is his own moral conscience. He said that recently in an interview. This happened because there were constraints on his power.

11:35The Europeans pushed back. The bond markets pushed back. Congress, at least some of them, said things. And the media, including your network, thank you for devoting so much time to this issue because the American people then got involved. We saw the polling numbers. Overwhelmingly, people thought this was a bad idea. And I'll let you finish, but...

11:55Ty Cobb:A lot of what we reported was how many different experts across the spectrum in the world allied with U.S. national security over the last many decades thought it was a bad idea. I mean, we didn't do some bulletin saying stop, but we reported on the reality that this wasn't a 60-40 issue. It seemed like a 95-5 issue unless you were maybe in the U.S. but working. You know, I'm sure people at the Russian embassy and others are sympathetic to that domain and they have a right to speak. But other than them, we didn't find a lot of people thinking this was good for U.S. security. Correct. And you had me on a lot.

12:30I said it's the worst idea in American history in terms of foreign policy. And that matters. And I just say that because people are too fatalistic sometimes. They think nothing matters. You can't check Trump power. This is a case. This is an instance where it was checked. Now, to your point about, you know, mixing up Iceland and Greenland, I would just say two things. I'm not a doctor, so I'm not going to comment on things I'm not expert on. But does it have a reaction in the world? Most certainly it does. My phone has lit up with my European colleagues. What is going on? What is going on, Ambassador?

13:04Well, you know, we've called this idea a crazy idea. Well, maybe it's because the author of it is not, you know, I'm paraphrasing what my European friends are saying. But they're like, what is going on in your country, Mike? Who is the leader of your country? and politely they say, well, it's Trump and it's not all of America, but there's an undertone also that says, well, maybe you guys, this is what you do. You elect crazy people like this because your country has becoming crazy. Now, I wanna tell you, I push back on that very hard, but it is an emotion out there that I think Americans need to understand.

13:43We are in a good place today compared to 24 hours ago, but the mass of nations about it, threatening to invade a democracy. Democracies don't go to war with each other. You know, I teach that here at Stanford, and yet for the first time it was on the table, that does damage to our relationships that I think will take a long time to repair.

14:05Ty Cobb:Here's one Republican, Tom Tillis, referring to what you said and how they would actually have, he says, Republican supermajorities to stop it if it went there. I'm not going to go to impeachment because I would go to the process of implementing, let's say it was a kinetic action or some sort of increase in military presence, that I'd immediately go for a war powers resolution. I think that we could easily get veto-proof majorities. Republicans had veto-proof majorities on Epstein. This is a matter of international consequence, whether we would allow Trump to send American soldiers to invade Europe and NATO, help Putin, and risk bigger things.

14:48Ty Cobb:So when you say pressure works, where does that head for Trump? Well, I hope as an American, not as a Democrat or Republican, but as American who thinks it is in our long term national interest to have allies because the real threats are China and Russia. And tragically, everybody in Davos is talking about Greenland, not Ukraine. That is not in our long term interest. I would hope that we won't have another play of this. but because of the erratic nature of the president in his second term. I mean, you rightly said we're only, you know, a little bit into the second year. I fear that we're going to have more plays of this.

15:29And then he gets home and he's, you know, when he's around leaders, it's a very familiar pattern, right? He then backs away. He does that. We've seen this. We saw it with Xi Jinping. But then he gets home and then he's around sycophants. He doesn't really have a National Security Council process in place. It doesn't work that way in the Trump era. And then he's up late at night and he decides to get on social media and, you know, just do things very emotionally. And then you're back to these kinds of crises again. So I hope that this is the end of it. But I fear we're going to see more of these dramas over the next three years.

16:06Ty Cobb:Understood. Ambassador McFaul, thank you. Tonight we have Trump threatening even more enemies list prosecutions. The economic pain Republicans are worried about, that could drive midterm losses or even a blue wave route. I have something very special on that. But next we got Professor Murray on Donald Trump fighting what has been a losing battle at the Supreme Court. I'll explain in 90 seconds. Cash Now More Later from Opendoor gives you cash up front for your home plus all the profit later. That's no chaos now, no cash left behind later. Skip the showings now, pocket extra profit later. This is so simple now.

16:47This is so awesome later. Or sell fast now and pop the champagne later. Cash Now More Later, now available nationwide. Start your offer at opendoor.com slash radio. Profits calculated after fees and costs. Eligibility and offer price may vary. Courage. I learned it from my adoptive mom. Hold my hand. You hold my hand. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care at AdoptUSKids.org. You can't imagine the reward. Brought to you by AdoptUSKids, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council. Love college basketball? Gear up for another exciting season with a special offer from BetMGM.

17:22Sign in to your BetMGM account and enjoy a college basketball odds boost token to snag even more winnings on your next bet. If you win your bet with your token activated, you'll score extra winnings. It's that simple. Log in now and enjoy our odds boost token to help you create another memorable season of college ball. BetMGM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly. See BetMGM.com for terms. 21 plus only. This promotional offer is not available in Mississippi, New York, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET. For New York, call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY-467-369.

18:02For Massachusetts, 1-800-327-5050. For Iowa, 1-800-BETS-OFF. For Puerto Rico, 1-800-981-0023. Subject to eligibility requirements in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel.

18:21Ty Cobb:Today, the Supreme Court seems skeptical about Trump's bid to try to take control of the independent Fed. That's something no president has ever done. Remember, this has been a losing battle for Trump because he failed in a plot to immediately oust a governor there, Lisa Cook. She's staying on the job as the case is reviewed. So status quo is Trump losing. She even attended today, along with the other target at the Fed, Jerome Powell. They're part of these enemies list probes that are increasing, as you see on your screen. Now when you look at the questions by the judges, a majority did sound skeptical at times.

18:56Ty Cobb:Here are two Republican appointees, and I'll explain what you're about to hear. Alito notes the Trump attack on Cook was so thin, they don't even have a lot of evidence of it in this record. And this is for things she did allegedly before Trump put her in the Fed recently. She's under the Fed, under this Trump administration, so it might also just be too old. And then Kavanaugh, when you hear his question, he's sort of skeptically describing Trump's dream power here as far-fetched, that a president would have no review or process or remedy and thus could fire anyone on a board that's supposed to be independent from White House control.

19:39You began by laying out what you claim to be the factual basis for the for-cause removal, but no court has ever explored those facts. Are the mortgage applications even in the record in this case? There's no judicial review, no process required, no remedy available, very low bar for cause. that the president alone determines, I mean, that would weaken, if not shatter, the independence of the Federal Reserve that we just discussed.

20:17Ty Cobb:Shatter independence? Bad. That's if you just shrink down the way judges ask questions. And those are Republican appointees. Justice Sotomayor also pointed out that the way Trump is positioning this would, if they won this case, it would just shred a century of precedent. 112 years, and it's unprecedented that any Federal Reserve officer has ever been removed. So the unprecedented nature of this case is a part of what the president did, not what Ms. Cook did. And that's a fact. This one might be different than other places where Trump has seized powers, partly because the economy and its independence can feel something like a Jenga board.

21:07Ty Cobb:It's not clear the justices trust Donald Trump to pull one, two, three, or all the Fed's board members out with whatever his agenda is. And that's before we keep track of whether he knows the difference between the Federal Reserve and Goldman Sachs, between Greenland and Iceland, and the various things you have to keep track of in a job like this. NYU law professor Melissa Murray is here, and MSNOW legal analyst. Your view of this argument today. So Ari, I have to say, I thought this was pretty weak sauce from the conservative justices on the court because they have given this president a pretty wide berth, allowing him to remove a lot of other members of independent agencies.

21:47It was a little bit like that point in Frankenstein, Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, when Victor Frankenstein has created this monster and then realizes that maybe the monster is going to kill him and everyone he loves. That's kind of what I saw from the conservative justices. They've set this in motion. They've given this president unfettered authority. He has removed a commissioner of the FTC. He's removed a member of the National Labor Relations Board and on and on and on. And they've allowed him to do it. But suddenly the Fed is different because the Fed and the independence of a Fed is absolutely integral to the stability of economic markets, as we've seen over the course of the last couple of weeks.

22:22And so it seemed like this court trying to put the genie back in the bottle, but it's out.

22:28Ty Cobb:Well, you're calling BS on how they let Trump hijack other powers because they might not think they're important. But this goes to the economic system. They are elites. They might not like the idea of that hitting their pocketbooks. I mean, it sounds like if I were more generally or the nation were generally. But the other things hit the nation more generally. I mean, what Elon Musk was doing in cutting people and what Trump was supporting affects working people and poor people sometimes quicker than this. I wonder whether and I you know, I hate to do this. I wonder whether you're bringing a kind of Foucault legal realist.

23:10Ty Cobb:Analysis here and saying that our court system itself is is corrupted by power structures. So I don't know that I would go that far. I will say, I will say that this court seemed to think that the Fed was a bridge too far today. And they're right. But I would argue the bridge too far happened weeks ago when they allowed this president. So that I think is these other people, however we put it, that's a very fair observation and analysis you provide us with. Having said that, it sounds like you do think they found the line and Trump could lose off today's argument. I think he's very definitely losing, in part because the arguments he made were so excessive.

23:48So Solicitor General John Sauer, who argued on behalf of the administration, said, one, that Lisa Cook isn't even entitled to an opportunity to defend herself against these charges of mortgage fraud.