WSJ: DOJ Told Trump His Name Is In Epstein Files

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0:41Quote today, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, number one rating based on 2024 filings with State Departments of Insurance. Welcome to The Beat. I'm Antonia Hilton, in for RE Melbourne tonight. We start with breaking news on Donald Trump's name reportedly appearing in the Epstein files. Today, explosive new reporting rocking the political world. According to The Wall Street Journal, the Justice Department told Trump in May that his name is in the Epstein files. It comes as Trump, who previously helped stoke Epstein conspiracy theories, suddenly tries to tamp down questions about that guy.

1:19The journal reports, quote,

1:49in the records, isn't a sign of wrongdoing. It's new context for Bondi's claims about potentially revealing documents, including the ever-elusive client list. Here's what she said in February and March, weeks before reportedly informing Trump his name was in the files. The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients? Will that really happen? It's sitting on my desk right now. A lot of flight logs, a lot of names, a lot of information. but it's pretty sick what that man did. We will get everything. We will have it in our possession. America get the full Epstein files. That's what Bondi was saying before the DOJ released a memo in July that poured cold water all over talk of a client list and theories about Epstein's death.

2:40That memo caused an uproar and led to Trump getting hammered with questions, including a direct question about what Bondi told him. The Attorney General briefed you on the DOJ and FBI's review, the findings of that review. On what? On the DOJ and FBI's review. On what subject? On Epstein. The review of the file. Attorney General Pan Bondi. A very, very quick briefing. Did she tell you, what did she tell you about the review? And specifically, did she tell you at all that your name appeared in the file? No, no. She's given us just a very quick briefing. The Journal reports the DOJ told Trump in May, quote, it didn't plan to release any more documents related to Epstein because other material contained child pornography and victims' personal information.

3:31Trump reportedly didn't object. Now the White House is calling the Journal's report, quote, another fake news story. The Journal, also reporting, quote, quote, FBI Director Kash Patel has privately told other government officials that Trump's name appeared in the files, according to people close to the administration. It builds on the journal's recent reporting about that strange and, quote, bawdy birthday message Trump allegedly wrote to Epstein. Trump is, of course, suing over that reporting. It bears repeating. The big news tonight. The President of the United States' name reportedly appearing multiple times in documents related to convicted child predator Jeffrey Epstein.

4:12So ahead this hour, I'll talk live with Reverend Al Sharpton and Trump's former lawyer, Michael Cohen. But we are going to start with Emily Bazelon, legal writer with The New York Times Magazine, and Catherine Christian, NBC News and MSNBC legal analyst and former assistant district attorney with the Manhattan DA's office. Thank you both for being here with me this evening. So we understand that his name being in these files does not necessarily mean that a crime has been committed here. And I think for some, this may not even be surprising because we've known that he's in flight logs. We know that Epstein reportedly had multiple phone numbers for Donald Trump and for other members of the family.

4:56But what's sort of striking to me is that he was just asked a week ago by a reporter, did Bondi tell you this? What did you know? And it appears he may have lied. Catherine, how significant is all of this to you? He lied or he forgot. It's significant. Well, first, again, just because your name appears in file, that does not mean you've committed a criminal activity. But we would need to know the context. I'm sure there were Sir Torrance executed during this investigation. So did they get the flight logs? Guest list. Did his name appear on a guest list? Is his name on other birthday cards? The Wall Street Journal said he was given a birthday.

5:33He left the birthday message for Mr. Epstein. So it'd be interesting to see how his name appears multiple times. On what documents do they appear? And many of those documents may not have been grand jury secret documents that would have been obtained as a subpoena. It could have been a witness interview, which certainly is not going to be confidential unless there were like a victim's name there. So it'd be interesting to know how President Trump's name is in these files. Emily, what questions has all this raised for you and the timeline here? I mean, this is sort of a problem of their own creation.

6:09They're the ones that released a memo saying nothing to see here, folks, only weeks ago. So how shocked are you by this latest development, this new reporting from The Wall Street Journal? Well, I agree with Catherine. It's not that surprising in the sense that we know that Epstein and Trump were friends. They spent time together, including, it seems, in the period of time that the indictment covers. Another question I have is whether the fact that Trump's name is in these documents, and we don't know how, or the context, relates to the Justice Department's decision not to release more of these files.

6:41Was that something that was on Pam Bondi's mind? Was she trying to protect the president in making that decision? And that seems like an especially important question to ask because Trump has in so many ways blasted on by the usual protections of the independence of the Justice Department from the president. Right. He doesn't believe in that kind of independence. He is making it clear he's the one calling the shots. And so you want to know how all of that adds up. Did he direct her not to disclose any further information? Well, we know that Senator Dick Durbin already authored a letter alleging that basically a whistleblower had informed his office that she had directed people to spend time around the clock looking specifically for Trump's name in the files that she had access to.

7:29And then, you know, just in this one section of the Wall Street Journal's reporting, the meeting set the stage for the high profile review to come to an end. So in a way, at least the timeline, it raises all those suspicions you just spelled out there, Emily. I'm curious for you, Catherine. We now know, too, that Ghislaine Maxwell has been subpoenaed officially. There's sort of efforts to hear more from her now on several fronts. What do you think we could realistically learn from her? She did not seek a plea deal first time around. Would she have new information now? We would expect her to say nothing unless she were granted full immunity by Congress, which apparently they're not going to do.

8:12And if I'm a lawyer of a defendant in her situation, I'd say, unless you're getting immunity, you keep your mouth shut. Because remember, she has an appeal pending, so she's not going to do anything to harm that appeal. When Epstein was alive, the Southern District could have used her as a cooperator, could have perhaps had her flip against him and then promised her a lower sentence. Once he died, there was nothing that she could give them. So she was an equal co-defendant and she was tried. But I don't see her speaking unless she got full immunity. And why would you give full immunity to someone who has been convicted of such horrible crimes, trafficking child sex abuse, child for for sex abuse purposes.

8:58Why would you pardon someone who was convicted of such horrible crimes? Emily, how do you think Trump's base is going to process this? They kind of rejected the Wall Street Journal's report around this birthday letter. We saw almost within like two, three minutes, people starting to tweet and respond saying, this doesn't sound like Trump. I don't think he ever draws pictures, that kind of thing. What do you know of how they are going to process this latest information? And do you think that this could really create an actual break, a crack in his loyal following? You're already kind of laughing right now.

9:32No, I mean, I'm not laughing. The approval ratings among Republicans of Trump's handling of the Epstein files have already dropped. So I think we are already seeing some impact from this. I wonder if one difference between this news piece of information and the drawing is that the drawing nobody has seen. The Wall Street Journal described it, but it isn't in our heads as an image that is in public view. Maybe that made it easier to dismiss. This reporting, which other news organizations are already matching, is coming from inside the Trump administration saying that he didn't disclose that he'd been told these facts.

10:13And it raises these questions about that you were just asking, who directed this, who controlled it. Those questions about direction and control are so much a part of the kind of larger conspiracy theorizing around the Epstein case. It all kind of feeds on itself, one might think. And there is terrible wrongdoing at the heart of this criminal matter. Catherine, could some of what it appears this administration knew and did not publicly share impact Trump's lawsuit against The Wall Street Journal for that first report? Well, it will certainly help the Wall Street Journal and in their defense of it.

10:51The fact that the Wall Street Journal has once again issued an article that would surely upset the president shows that they are going to defend that lawsuit to the hilt. Rupert Murdoch is not going to fold like other media companies or certain law firms have folded. So it's like a drumbeat. Again, just because your name is in a file, that doesn't mean you did anything criminal. But it's interesting that suddenly and they only asked the DOJ for the grand jury transcripts. Donald Trump's name is not going to be in that grand jury transcript. But we now know if it's true that his name is sprinkled throughout the files.

11:32Speaking of grand jury transcripts, we also heard from a judge in Florida today that their hands are tied from unsealing Epstein-related information from grand juries convened in 05 and 07. Do you think the administration tried to set judges up to be kind of the fall guy here? Yes, you know, and I and I, you know, I will admit that often as a as a lawyer, you like, well, let the courts aside. Oh, sorry, there's nothing I can do about it. The judge said no. So the law is the law. And that's what this judge said. The federal rules of criminal procedure are clear, that grand jury testimony transcripts are secret and there is no public interest exception.

12:13And the judge made that clear here. Well, Emily Bazelon, Catherine Christian, thank you both for being here at the table tonight. We are staying on this breaking news story. I'll be talking to Reverend Al Sharpton and former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen as MAGA World is reeling from this new bombshell on a story they've been hyping for years. The same thing with Epstein's list. It's like, what the hell are these Republicans doing? Why is the FBI protecting the greatest pederast, the largest scale pederast in human history? Simple, because of who's on that list. A siege mentality now overtaking the Trump White House as the Epstein questions hit a fever pitch.

12:54President Trump called the Epstein files controversy a witch hunt. a witch hunt as in it's a hunt for which files contain trunks reverend sharpton and then michael cohen we're going to be back in just 90 seconds

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14:37You had to pull the rule because of fear of Epstein books. No, we don't have any fear. No, no, hold on. No, Reese, no. There's no fear here. No, there's no fear. There's no fear. Speaker Johnson under pressure as new revelations drop about Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. The Wall Street Journal reporting today, the Justice Department told Trump in May that his name is among many in the Epstein files. The White House is denying the story. Meantime, photos newly obtained by CNN reveal something not widely known until now, that Epstein was actually at Trump's wedding to Marla Maples at the Plaza Hotel in 1993.

15:15The House Oversight Committee today also subpoenaed Ghislaine Maxwell. All this coming out amid new heat from the right. The founder of the extremist militia group, Oath Keepers, Stuart Rhodes, is speaking out. He was convicted of seditious conspiracy over January 6th, and Trump pardoned him. And yet, Rhodes is warning, quote, I believe 90 % of Trump's base understands that Epstein was up to something. And we know that's the tip of the iceberg. It's really disheartening to see President Trump just declare that to be a hoax. I don't think it is. And I don't and I think it's going to cause him trouble in his own base.

15:52It already is. That's from the far right. Pressure is also coming from D.C. Republicans. Here's GOP Senator Tom Tillis today. Release the damn files. Look, it makes no sense to me. Either it's a nothing burger or it's something really disturbing. And that's actually even a more compelling reason to release it. Meanwhile, House Democrats are planning to force more votes and get the GOP on the record. Look, Donald Trump is doing backflips and everything he can to change the topic. Republicans are running away, all to avoid the release of the Epstein client list, all to cover up for pedophiles. One must ponder the question, what are they hiding from the American people?

16:43Speaker Johnson has assured that August has become the Epstein recess. Trump seems to be getting so desperate now that he's literally coaching GOP lawmakers on how to respond to questions about Epstein. This is what he said to a group last night. And remember, don't let them forget, it's so important, Obama cheated on the election. When they give you all the nonsense, Obama cheated. You should mention that every time they give you a question that's not appropriate. Just say, oh, by the way, Obama cheated on the election. And joining me now is Reverend Al Sharpton, founder of the National Action Network and host of Politics Nation here on MSNBC.

17:28Rev, I want your reaction first to this bombshell new reporting from The Wall Street Journal. Well, it is a bombshell because here we are getting information that is directly the opposite of what we were told at first, that he really knew nothing and he was not involved. But it would explain what we've seen all week. I mean, every day he's tried to change the story. I'm going to fire the Fed chief. I'm going to release Martin Luther King Jr.'s files. I'm going to ask for the arrest of Barack Obama. He's behaving like a man that's panicking. Now, I have no idea what he did or didn't do, and I'm not accusing him of that.

18:11But I am saying that he is acting like a man that has a lot more to hide than what we've known. Do you think this administration, their actions, they're making this problem worse for themselves? Absolutely. Because I think if they had come out and just said candidly, look, I knew the guy. I went to some of his events, put all the files out. It would have been nothing if there is nothing there. But the fact that they've changed the story two or three times, including having the attorney general change it and the fact that they look like they're trying to bury the story. I mean, he's done everything but jump off the Truman balcony and bounce back.

18:50I mean, they've done everything to try and change the story makes everybody say, wait a minute, there must be something there we don't know. Whatever that is, again, I'm not accusing them, but I'm very, very curious now with all the drama we've seen this week. And now I guess sort of right on cue, right on time. We have House lawmakers getting out of Dodge, fleeing Washington, D.C. for their early summer vacation. What does that tell you? I mean, at a time when we are seeing the country facing so much on a global level and local, You're dealing with starvation in Gaza. You're dealing with Ukraine and even people they have now met as Zelensky.

19:31And you have people that and their home bases, their home districts that are furious with them about the big, ugly bill that they call beautiful bill. The last thing you would think they'd want to do is go home and have to explain Medicaid cuts and cuts to SNAP. They say, oh, no, you're going home. So you think they'd rather talk about cuts to people's health care right now than deal with this Epstein situation? Unless they went to Epstein's parties, I think they would rather stay in Washington and deal with these situations than to go home and deal with the town halls and all. The only reason that I believe that they are vacationing early is because Donald Trump has told Johnson this is what you have to do, which is unprecedented.

20:16in it. You're going to extend the vacation of Congress at a time like this. So you see them as abdicating an important responsibility right now? I see them as abdicating a very important responsibility. And I see a president that seems as though he is very rattled. We will find out why soon. We stay in church by and by when the morning comes. So how do you think Democrats should be engaging with this at this point? At first, some of them were hesitant. Now we see more and more of them coming forward, comfortable talking about the Epstein case, pushing for transparency here. But the same way this whole thing and the sort of conspiracy elements of it seems to be eating up the base that started it on the right.

20:57Are there risks here for Democrats who want to engage on this? I think that they have to engage very strategically. They have to point out the obvious and then step back and let them deal with it. You know, I had a mentor once told me, If you see a man going over a cliff, don't get close. You'll turn a suicide into a homicide. They've got to make them appear that they're doing this to themselves. But we're standing up for what's right. So they shouldn't overdo it. They have to be present. They have to state strongly what is the legality of the matter and the morality of the matter. We're talking about children with Epstein.

21:32I'm not saying Trump's involved there. We're talking about children with Epstein. But at the same time, let them stumble all over themselves what they're doing. You got the founder of the Oath Keepers coming out attacking now. Don't get in the way of that. True. I mean, the other thing I wonder here is if there's an opportunity for Democrats to broaden the Epstein story and to make it about white collar crime, the wealth inequality in the United States at a time when so many people we just saw here in New York. They want to talk about affordability. They want to talk about how they're going to survive and try to thrive in this country right now.

22:06if Democrats can kind of turn Epstein into an avatar, really, for the way in which the elite, the wealthy, they get away with everything from sort of robbing people, slashing your health care, but also to these kinds of heinous, heinous crimes. No, I think you're absolutely right. If you look at the primary in New York, primary in Minneapolis, people are dealing with affordability. People are dealing with struggling. If you can say that the Epsteins of the world and his circle, whether they all engage in pedophilia or not, we do not know. But they could write the rules the way they want. They could avoid being held accountable.

22:46And we represent something different. We know your life. How do they know theirs? And you don't have a guy to fix documents for you or somebody to bury things for you or to act like you weren't somewhere. If they begin to raise the broader issues of the difference between the haves and the have-nots, I think that it benefits them tremendously in the midterm election. And I got to ask you, too, before we go to break about what's happening to former President Obama right now. You know, we saw Trump release that AI video of him getting arrested to the tune of the YMCA song. And now we have DNI Tulsi Gabbard sort of pushing these baseless claims about the former president claiming that the Russia probe was designed by him to undermine Trump's incoming presidency at the time.

23:34How seriously do you take this? I mean, a lot of people are talking about it as a distraction right now. But do you think there's a real hunger, a real plan here to try to go after Obama? I think it's a real problem for the country to have a sitting president to say that you are to arrest or prosecute a president. His predecessor has never happened in American history. and to get people all geared up, all you need is some nut to feel I should make a citizen's rest. This can go anywhere. So I don't think we ought to deal with it as a distraction, but I also, we need to deal with the gravity of what they're doing.

24:18You're talking about the president of the United States, no matter how we feel about him, attacking a former president, saying he stood in this Oval Office and broke the law and he should be brought to justice. Yeah, they're using words like treasonous, conspiracy. And what is, when I was going to school, treason, what are you supposed to face with treason? So I think it is very dangerous for the country, very dangerous for President Obama and his family. And I think it's something that, you know, when Donald Trump was shot, all of us rushed out and said, this is wrong. We condemn it. You can't put people in a position where you know you can incite somebody who's not all that well to think they're doing the country a favor if they're dealing with treason.

25:02And that's my fear, that we now are way across the line of what we should do for Trump or Obama. We shouldn't do that to any president. Reverend Sharpton, always good to see you. Thank you for being here with me tonight. And be sure to catch more Rev on Politics Nation weekends at 5 p.m. Eastern right here on MSNBC. Later in the show, amid ice raids, disturbing new revelations tie far-right extremist ideologies to the Trump administration's messaging campaign. But first, former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen is here live on Epstein revelations and the pressure facing Trump. That's next.

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