'28 Years Later': Death, Zombies, and One of the Year's Best Movies

28:03it's amazing yeah but also i mean there is a lot of that viscera that you're describing but it's very much a fallen empire movie it's sort of about like what happens in the aftermath of brexit 200 years of power and wealth and then this turn towards isolationism and to have that idea be so obvious on the surface but then to actually spend time to like explore what it means and the ramifications of people and to watch someone leave the island in the film as the young boy and his father do at the beginning of the film and then and we will spoil this movie though i think clearly we all highly recommend it it's definitely one of the best movies of the year to then have another character leave the island too and then see the ramifications of another person leaving and then just try to like reckon with what is trying to be communicated here about the idea of brexit specifically but i think around the world the sort of like the fact that they are being isolated from a rage virus um i think like says a lot about how the filmmakers view the contemporary environment but the movie doesn't skimp at all on the hardcore genre stuff there is a kind of elegiac tone to a lot of what's happening and the sadness between the parents and the child but there's a giant mega zombie with a huge swinging dick in this movie ripping people's vertebrae out i mean it is literally the two things that we are always asking for which is like if you can give us hard genre and and then pack inside that genre some deep theme um which this movie has a ton of it shouldn't be surprising like I feel like yesterday is the blip and then when you start going through all of Boyle's movies and you're like oh yeah they're all kind of like this they all feel weirdly transgressive 28 Days Later is about a post 9-11 western world right like it is he's able waking up to the destruction translate like a moment in time into a genre movie with so much creativity I thought that like there was a really sly expository dump in the beginning of the movie where they mentioned that continental Europe has like fixed it.

30:07Like they're like, they've like condemned it and moved on. It is also. It's a retcon of the second film. Yeah. And it's like titles and they're just like, yeah, the second movie did not happen. Exactly. But it's also kind of like very telling about, I think the way Boyle perhaps sees contemporary British life of like all these other places that have like, We self-inflicted, wounded ourselves, and now these other places, you're going to have to go there to get a doctor. Yeah, it's an interesting choice to set it in the highlands of Scotland, too, and the identity of Scotland inside of the British Empire.

30:38That's the beginning, then it moves down into northeast England. Right, right. The way that the movie is made, it looks unlike any movie I've ever seen. And so I was hoping maybe we could try to unpack how they did this thing. I haven't read anything about the production of the movie. I didn't want anything spoiled for me after we saw that first trailer that we talked about. on YouTube like three months ago. Yeah. With the Rudyard Kipling poem. But there's two huge choices. One is obviously shooting it with an iPhone, which gives it this kind of like hazy on the edges and then tight focus in the center of the frame.

31:16And then there's the editing style, which particularly in the action sequences is this sort of like skip, freeze, cut action, which is very strange and takes like a second to get used to because this is a movie that's largely about like bow and arrow murder of zombies. It looks very like Robin Hood in the first 30 minutes and then kind of morphs into something significantly more disgusting. But I don't know. How did you feel, you know, as someone who doesn't watch these movies all the time? Right. But I assume you felt something significantly different from your standard issue zombie movie. Yeah.

31:51are you i mean i hit so i watched 28 days later and then 28 weeks later like in succession this week that's just how i've been spending my week um and you know 28 days later is also like this style of filming is very famous and so it's like very low quality digital cameras in 2002 yes um which you know serves a story and is very cool but like if you're watching it at home on your TV now it is like kind of borderline unwatchable. It looks like shit. It looks like really really I mean you can you can get a sense of what they were trying to do with the style and it like clearly is that you know this style is serving the movie but you're just like what am I looking at like how can I see this?

32:35Is that Killian Murphy walking across the yeah. Yeah yeah yeah yeah oh that bus is on the side like you know. It did feel very different in theaters. Right right right right. Because in theaters they struck prints of the digital video so it was the weirdest looking thing. I mean, I remember vividly. And then when you watch it at home, it didn't have the same power. Right. But so it was interesting to go from, from that experience and, and that style of filmmaking to like to iPhone world. Um, and obviously you can like see things a lot better. Um, but there was just a scope to this that, um, like I, I thought was very beautiful and like does serve the story in terms of that it's an isolated Island, but like york like considering like the larger world um so and and then the zombie stuff i just i mean they really really like blood and this is way gorier and way way gorier and it's you know i like i guess i have a quote-unquote queasy stomach about this stuff but really i just kind of like don't look the the way that i react to things is like oh okay so now we're in the like you know eyeballs are going to start exploding things so i'm just going to like look over here and i like just kind of look down um and so i can like kind of see it in my periphery then i could still see a lot of blood in the periphery that's kind of the thing it's like can you look away and like no you can't really totally avoid this one but um even i can tell that it is you know it's both gnarly and very impressive yeah i was wondering if it was like purposely done that way as a sort of maybe not a comment but like a an elevation of the sensory overload that we've experienced in the last 20 years that like to really be blown away by something like this you kind of need to go in super high definition video right up close into the eye of the zombie as the arrow penetrates and then freeze the camera for one second like it felt like the same way that's an aesthetic choice that he made to shoot on digital video to show you like kind of a grainy broken down world and what would what would it be like if you tried to capture it on the last remaining camera that in this movie it's sort of like there's there's literally one character with an iphone the last iphone before it loses all of its battery and he's like check out my fiance that part is great it's amazing why does her face look like that my friend when she eats scallops that was genuinely really funny um but these like aesthetic choices are kind of like informing the big ideas of the movie which makes it more fun and more interesting to kind of unpack in the aftermath but also just sitting there and watching it, it's just, it's more exciting.

35:11Yeah. The British critic, Frank Cremode, said that this film was a combination of Ken Loach's Kez with Cannibal Holocaust. And I thought that was like a pretty, pretty awesome way of looking at it. Not only is it shot in this very distinctive way, but it's cut in the visual language overall is really distinctive where Boyle's cutting in like Laurence Olivier's Henry V and infrared red shots of the infected crawling around the forest. I loved that. And, um, you know, these kind of surreal, almost like folk horror kind of images of the alpha on the horizon and his minions rising up. And he's playing with a lot of genre, not only tonally, but visually like mixing in all these different kinds of, uh, I don't know, like vernaculars of film that I've really responded to.

36:04Yeah. Two movies that I thought of while watching it. One was sorcerer, which kind of like plunges you into this hellscape and you're just stuck there and you're on a mission to try to get out with your life. And then the other one was the lighthouse because the lighthouse has a kind of similar, it's like an emotional torrent on top of you of all around you at any moment something terrible could happen. And similarly, you know, weaving in the folklore aspect of that story and the idea of being like just on the periphery of impending doom. but it's pretty audacious for a mainstream studio horror movie that is the third in the series to completely pivot stylistically and to be hitting you with this like like you said dropping into the infrared especially going into dream sequences where jodie comers characters you know you know eye level in the in the water speaking to her son through a dream with red eyes like this is very um i don't know kind of dark and haunted and uh unusual kind of stuff so i was like blown away by all those choices and then the story is a very interesting trio of acts like very clearly dad mother holy spirit you know like those are the kind of there's the the sacrament is really being explored here all the way up to the upside down cross that is shown at the end of this film and the bone temple that we explore very briefly.

37:27Let's start with the first one. So the first one is a story about a father and a son and the father's teaching his son how to hunt, how to hunt the infected. And it's basically a village rite of passage that like boys of a certain age get brought out into the world for the first time. And yeah, and they learn the rules of protecting and what it means to be. And then there's like a celebration afterwards. It's like a bar mitzvah. Yes, totally. It's like Vikings are referenced. It's very much like the Viking conqueror training their son. I saw some people saying that this part, this section didn't work, but I thought I thought this was incredible.

38:05I mean, I thought this was like breathtaking. Yeah. Pure excitement. Aaron Taylor Johnson, always happy to see him, but he was very good in this. I mean, I guess it is like the most standard, for lack of a better word, of the three. Like they start you with a pretty much. okay it's like it's a dad and a son and they do a great job at communicating like the tension and that you know the expectations that the kid doesn't really feel like he can live up to and then you know then they hunt zombies for a while so it's like the movie hasn't totally like turned on its side yet in this act but i thought it like it was very emotionally affecting like when the dad gets up to something that maybe he shouldn't get up to I gasped I was like oh you know and it's like come on that's screenwriting 101 it's like not surprising but it has the punch that you need and then I don't know those those slug zombies were really ugly so um it works and then it lays the foundation for everything that just kind of gets like weirder and weirder as you in a good way yeah go along I uh I thought that the causeway chase on the way back to the village was like one of the most amazing things I've seen this year.

39:16And this kid spikes a loss of innocence coming through probably the most universal thing, which is finding out your dad's a liar. Yeah. And that your dad is like a flawed human being. And, you know, he comes back and he's being celebrated in this village and he can't get over the fact that his dad is making up stories about his accomplishments. And this is like a very big pub culture thing. Like, I saw a guy out there six and a half feet tall I kicked him in the nuts and you're like no he didn't he ran away you know like that that really was so perfectly like staged I thought I agree and even just the I don't I assume that that causeway is a real place like a real location yeah there was a Jude Law miniseries that had like a similar premise of like this causeway is only open once a day and you know it's like he's on an island looking for someone it was a couple years ago on HBO it's pretty cool I just can't remember the name of it Just visually the way that that's captured is remarkable and so propulsive and in the light, in the dark.

40:18You see the water kicking up as the alpha is chasing them. Exactly. There are a number of times where he goes really, really wide with the camera, but like the overhead shot of seeing the alpha chasing them and you can see the kind of distance in their footsteps. Like all on the moon, yeah. And then there are so many of those Vista shots you were talking about, Chris, where it's sort of like you can feel the camera. You can feel just an iPhone camera moving like this and giving you the panorama as suggested on your phone that I think actually weirdly like situated me more in the action than some more recent.

40:51We've been talking about a lot of action movies this year with Ballerina and Working Man, Amateur, Counting 2. There's been a lot of like pure classical action. and a lot of it because it's hard to stage these scenes has so much cutting that you feel like you're watching like a whole day's shoot as opposed to a sequence like this where you feel like you're like locked inside of the moment so I found that really impressive and just fun I feel like you're right though it is the most standard it's what you expected the whole movie to be and the fact that it kind of neatly pivots away from that when this boy does lose his innocence and realizes that something is wrong with his mother and a doctor exists somewhere on the island and that's where that, you know, the origin of the fire on the island that he locates.

41:34And I guess that's, is that just like an old man who lives in their house on the island? I thought that was her, I thought that was like an uncle or something like that. And he shares the history of Dr. Kelson? And then Aaron Taylor Johnson's character, his father, also shares the history of Kelson and that is a chilling sequence when he recalls being a young boy and stumbling upon Kelson's menagerie of death. Right. And then the boy decides That shot also is really The corpse is lined up so perfectly. Again like Chilling and This is small stuff but I'm like this is how you stage a movie like this.

42:17This movie is pretty expensive and you can see where some of the money is spent but like a sequence like that where you're like yeah we have like 300 extras and they all have to lay on the ground. You know like it doesn't look cheap or digital or right um and then that pivots him to you know bringing his mother back across the causeway so that he can discover the doctor and find out what's wrong with her what did you think about Jodie Comer in this movie I thought she was sensational I she is amazing and like I said I was really invested like as you know as soon as she meets her fate or it becomes clear that she's going to I was like really really upset now obviously like I am a mother to two small boys.

42:54So I was just like, no, I can't. This is horrible. But I think, I don't know if it's like a hugely developed character. That's okay. She, in the performance, like, I think gives it a lot of life and soul. So I thought she was great. I was, I don't know. When can we talk about like the turn? As soon as you want. We can talk about it right now. Well, I just, you know, it happens very fast that she's just like, okay, I guess I got to go die now. You know? I was like, I think that we would be preparing our son a little bit more for this. I guess it's how. They prepared him with a morphine blow dart.

43:37I guess, sure. I wonder, I mean, like, so when her character is first introduced and her malady is first introduced, I was like, it's really fascinating. Like, what would you do with untreated depression in a situation like this? Like I thought she was suffering from something like that. And then as the movie goes on and she has more like lapses in cognitive awareness, you're like, oh, it seems like it's more significant than that even. But yeah, like the sacrifice. I just think that you can't have the Jodie Comer character conversation without the Ralph Fiennes character conversation. Right. Because of what he says about the memento mori, about remembering.

44:17It comes before that, though, because I think the most important, you know, you can feel, let me go back. I really love Alex Garland's movies that he directed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I were to lodge a criticism against them, it would be that they are very schematic conceptually and that you can feel him moving the characters to help make points. now I would say warfare and civil war personally I felt that less than I have in the past but that he has this like diagrammatic approach to story and structure this has that too a new child is born and so one must die like that is really in the you know in the right literate understanding of genre filmmaking as soon as they and I do as maybe a science corner is in order for the birth The birth of a zombie child.

45:03Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is not a birth of a child of a zombie mother and uninfected. I can't logic through that very well. Right. You're not as learned in the ways of the zombie. The infected. Well, I've seen all of them recently. So actually, when I was watching Jodie Comer, I was like, oh, is she infected? But it's like some mutation. Oh, slow burning. Or she is like a carrier. You thought that's what she originally had. Yeah, I thought that's where it was going. instead of where it went. Yeah. So that train scene where an infected woman gives birth to a baby and you see the baby emerging from the, you know, vaginal canal, which shout out that, like, I thought that all that was good.

45:48Here's what I didn't like about it. Okay. Well, number one, it's basically, there's a moment before where, you know, you hear this wailing and it's like unmistakable. It's like, oh, great. Okay. The one pregnant infected woman that we saw it like wandering around earlier is giving birth. Like, you know it instinctively. The zombie Virgin Mary. Yes. And so she's. That's what it is. I mean, it is. That's the idea. She's the zombie Virgin Mary. How did that baby stay alive after she got infected? Make it make sense, Alex. Well, they do. We'll get to that. But so she's there. she's giving birth and she's obviously like in distress because i guess like the rage virus is not an epidural and jody comer walks in what i'm actually just resisting doing tucker carlson with tec cruise with you what you're talking about zombie births you don't know what you're saying how do you know there isn't a zombie epidural but so and so she you want to eliminate all these zombies right and so she's like freaking out and and she's like clearly in pain and jodie comer goes in and like reaches her hand out and there's this moment where it's like what's implied is like this holy thing or this you know amazing thing that is happening which is like childbirth is like more powerful than the rage so they're holding each other and they're like connecting as people who have given birth and it's like for a moment.

47:19Yeah, two mamas. Yeah. They find each other on a train. You and me were not so different. Right. And then the baby is born and then she's like... If only we could stop raging for a minute, we could just get along. Didn't Civil War teach us that? Well, no, this is my problem. And I like, listen. I love that shit. This is theatrical. No, it's fucking stupid. Here's why. No, it's not. No, no. No, because I like I like I have like carried two kids. So I get to say this is like, you know, I'm glad that I did. But like it has nothing to do with like the preservation of your your humanity or like some, you know, magical thing like giving childbirth.

48:00No, it doesn't. And there are like plenty of people. What do you mean by that? It just it's like it's implied. It's like, oh, well, like, you know, like here comes this baby. And this is so special that like she's not she's not dangerous in this moment. she's not infected like they can connect as like human beings or whatever and it's like oh because like oh childbirth like how powerful you know who agrees with you know what that swedish guy and i just like i don't think that that is you know i think there's a slightly different way to read it yeah which is that the act of childbirth is so painful that it would it would stem the rage for a minute because you couldn't be right but then it's like jodie comber and her like having like this ooh mama's moment you know it's like yeah i get it i get it you know i can understand why that would to her point yeah and and we brought this up a couple of times i was blown away by how much garland is in this movie and it's a testament to his emergence and it was also like when that was happening i was like all right okay it's a very it's equal footing i think between boil and garland yeah nature is healing and changing stuff from the beginning of the film is right out of annihilation uh i mean men was the was the setup for the folklore stuff definitely elements of men.

49:11There's definitely elements of Civil War. I mean, he's definitely got his ideas. His hobby horses. I was texting with someone about this, but it feels like they complete each other. Like, Boyle without Garland, it's a kind of up and down situation. If he's got a Sorkin script, it's amazing. If it's yesterday, maybe not so much. And Garland without Boyle is just maybe a little too, like, fuck all people. Yes. Very, very cynical. Yeah, Boyle brings a little bit of humanity to some of Garland's stuff. Except for the baby. Okay, here are my two other. Obviously, like the baby not being infected. And Ralph Fiennes has a throwaway line about placenta.

49:50So that's, you know, at least they put in some science in there. Yeah. I like placenta is pretty powerful, I guess. But the placenta is inside the infected person's body. Right. I mean. How does the infection work? You know, they didn't explain that. That's true. But I agree with you. To your point, I think it's all just fanciful zombie storytelling, and I know that. But it's funny to pick the net. Yeah. And then, but the other thing about the baby that didn't even piss me off, but I was like, this is verging on children of men plagiarism at the very end. And I was like, hold on, hold on. Can we do this?

50:32Crossing the river. Well, crossing the river. And then, and like the last night, and her name is, you know? and it's Jodie Comer's name and I was like, okay, I like that movie too. Yeah, maybe a stealth homage or maybe a quiet whiff-off. It's true, I guess it is also, like we all are just retelling the Bible, I guess. This movie to me has deep, deep Christian symbology. It starts, you know, in a church. Wizard of Oz is in here. So then let's talk about Ralph Fiennes. Ralph Fiennes eventually, mother and son arrive. Actually, he saves them as they are being stalked by the elf. They get saved a couple times, yeah.

51:06is the insinuation that the zombie mother was impregnated whilst infected by the alpha yes and so that he was the father and he observes her I'm curious whether you guys read this as there are two alphas in the film there's the one that gets killed on the causeway oh and then there's and then there's the other one that's hunting I think the idea is that there are more and they're starting to grow and they're kind of like precinct bosses right you know like sure yeah if that's how you want to think about it um this guy's been watching a lot of Italian crime movies. So I think that the Fiennes character is interesting.

51:43Again, a little bit of a schematic, like what if there was a guy who had all the answers that had to fix everything? And also he collected skulls, but it's so beautifully rendered. And Ray Fiennes, the minute he shows up, the movie, which is already kind of like sitting in an eight out of 10, just goes like, whoop! Like as soon as he starts talking, because he's just the most dialed in actor right now. He's on a 10 year streak of everything he does is so enthralling. It's almost 30. I hear you. And also, but it is true. He's in a late style period where... Oh my God, it's Ralph Fiennes. Like now, now I'm sitting up straight and now it's happening.

52:17He's the closer. He can do the most with the least amount of screen time. Yeah. It's very exciting to see what he does. He's covered in iodine, which apparently repels the zombies. And he has developed a morphine cocktail that also neutralizes them, which is, in a dumber movie, I would be like this is so stupid but in this movie I was like yeah that's just something that happens this is how we neutralize zombies this makes total sense this guy's a genius and do you think that the reason why he doesn't kill the alpha after neutralizing him the first time is because of the physicians do no harm yeah I think so I think he's trying to coexist with the infected I think for our real zombie heads out there they may be like you just can't leave you can't leave the alpha standing there man no and it comes back to bite him yes to some extent almost almost this is the part of the movie that took on like a real Shakespearean quality for me I thought I mean it literally does a Yorick joke so well and then there's a lot of like Spike is Prince Hal of course and you know like getting ready to rise up to save England and stuff but this stuff about death I thought was extraordinary for a movie like this it was really beautiful and the idea that you know I The whole idea of the Skulls being like everyone has seen things and heard things and said things and it's like they have their own story.

53:41I thought that the culmination of her going away and the sparks coming up in the air and the music was up there with what do you see in Sunshine as the high points of Boyle cinema. Honestly, ecstatic. I was waiting for the worm to turn. I kept waiting for the like rug to get pulled out from under me at that moment because it is such a sincere and emotionally deep snapshot inside of a movie that is otherwise relentless and pretty mean. And he doesn't do that. But he does give you in the aftermath of that a kind of coda setting up the next film. Right. And then you're like, okay. Which is, to me, this is like, how best to put this.

54:24It's like putting a chocolate-covered banana on top of a completed sundae. Where it's like, I like a chocolate-covered banana. Sometimes there can be a little bit too much sweet. I think some people would say it's like putting a strawberry popsicle on top of it. It's like a completely different flavor profile. Yeah. That's a better way of putting it. So, you know, eventually the young boy returns the baby to or brings the baby to the island where he's grown up. Spike returns the child to the village. Well, in like a Moses basket, you know, sitting outside the thing. Yes, a Moses cart, handheld cart that he picked up from Target.

55:04A Moses signature baby basket. And Spike, like all great folkloric heroes, must strike out on his own, on his own personal mission to find himself and to become. Just have a simple piece of fish roasted over the fire. He's hunting and fishing all by himself. He's got his bow and arrow. Zombies lay a siege trap on him. They attack. He runs away. And he is greeted at an impasse by several pastel-wearing, were they Scottish? Ninja Teletubby zombie warriors? Basically, for the more British savvy viewer, a Jimmy Savile lookalike who I guess in this timeline would not have been revealed to be a child sex writer.

55:50But I don't even know. I wonder if that was meant to be like a wink and a nod. Speaking of, I need to mention, have you watched Shifty yet? The Adam Curtis film? Okay, so Adam Curtis, the great documentarian, has a new film that I watched on YouTube. I don't know if it's still there called Shifty. And it's about kind of like the loss of innocence, like the desecration of England and the world in the late 20th century. and the first person that you see in the documentary is Jimmy Savile, who was TV presenter and kind of British pop personality who was revealed to be a very unsavory character in real life.

56:22And when I saw them dressed like him with the bleach blonde hair, the kind of mop-ish hair and the crooked teeth, I was like, so are these guys child predators? Who also double as zombie warriors? It's obviously a huge record scratch in the middle of this otherwise, like very kind of stately and emotional and deep thematic film that goes right into um what's the Cameron Diaz Danny Boyle movie with Ewan McGregor uh Life Less Ordinary Life Less Ordinary where like a Life Less Ordinary is a little bit more like you know what if what if every scene was like we changed the dial on the radio station like it felt like him just turning the dial a little bit yeah and so the Jimmy character that Jack O 'Connell plays has been it's obviously that's in a preamble section of the film.

57:10These children get attacked by the infected while they're watching teletubbies, and it turns out that the child who escapes becomes Jack O 'Connell character. Throughout the film, there's graffiti on houses and on dead bodies that says Jimmy or Jimmy, you know, like the upside down hanging zombie. He is essentially becoming like a kind of evangelical figure on the northeast England countryside during this time period. So I thought it was fun. It's obviously the style of filmmaking is very different. I feel like Danny Boyle is a little bit less comfortable in this kind of filmmaking style. I was kind of wondering if Nia DaCosta directed it.

57:46Yeah, it doesn't feel like the rest of the movie. That final action sequence. Because what did you think of this sequence? Well, it took me a minute and I was like, okay, no, that is Jack O 'Connell. And then I was amused by that. Then I was like, am I watching Robin Hood? And then it was fine. Like it's, you know, it feels completely of a different movie and it feels like it's setting up the next movie, which in fact we know it is. So it was sort of, it was all very obvious. But I really saw it mostly as a coda as opposed to the third act of the movie. And I was still just, you know, emotionally wrapped up.

58:22And also being like, does Children of Men have like, you know, copyright rights here? It's true. I think the only disappointment I had about that sequence was self-created because for a second I was like, he's going to get to the impasse and fucking Cillian Murphy's going to be standing there like Mad Max. I did actually think that was it. And it's going to rule so hard and I'm so susceptible to this shit. And it wasn't. But it was okay. I thought, I know your mileage is going to vary on this. There are some people who are like, this left a bad taste in my mouth and I thought it ruined the movie.

58:52I wouldn't go that far. I didn't feel that way. But I thought it was appropriate to make like yet another crazy left turn because the movie does that so many times. Yes. So I just watched The Beach yesterday. Yeah. And I don't think I had seen it since I saw it in theaters in 2000. And I was a little disappointed by it. I don't know if you guys have seen it recently. I have not since 2000. I don't think I've seen it in a while. Since, you know, Leo season. So, you know, that film is in a way about a lot of the same themes. It's about this kind of quest for safety and isolation in a more perfect place.

59:33It's also a subterranean and then not so subterranean cult movie, you know, where Tilda Swinton's character is essentially like leading this commune, this private community into their own kind of Valhalla utopia. And this movie kind of has that on the front end and on the back end. It's like the island connected to the causeway is truly quarantined from the rest of the world and traversing across the causeway is a risk to explode your beautiful utopia. And then the second half of the film is Jimmy, essentially a cult leader, a violent cult leader with his merry band of pastel wearing Teletubbies slaughtering zombies all across the land.

1:00:13And so I just love this as this kind of like closing loop from the beach, which is where Garland and Bill started working together into this movie. And the fact that this idea, which in 2000 was clearly meant to be like a reflection of wayward Gen Xers who were like, I don't want to join society. I don't want to do what my parents told me to do. What I want to do is find my own little corner of the universe and live inside it the way I want to, free of judgment with people like me. And obviously that dream was not sustainable here, at least in America, and probably not in England either. And now, even more so, the whole point of this movie is like wherever you turn, there's a zombie.

1:00:54There's danger around every corner. Like there's no escaping the realities of modern life. And so I echo what you're saying about Garland and Boyle, which is like they just kind of. they bring up they just bring up the best in each other exactly exactly so it's just a very exciting movie can I throw a couple more things on the fire before we leave they bet the whole movie on this kid and they won the lottery absolutely he's terrific he's up there with like a kid from adolescence in kid performances that I've seen this year Alfie Williams is his name Edvin Riding plays a Swedish soldier who is marooned on the British Isles what how did those guys get there?

1:01:35What happened there? You can see, there's earlier in the movie, there's a scene where there's a patrol boat in the water. And they like, I think even the dad points out like, Oh, that's probably French. It's the blockade. Yeah. And there's like a quarantine patrol. And then he explains like, we sunk and we wanted to go anywhere but here. Cause no one ever gets off this place. Okay. Um, but he brings a very welcome sense of humor and also like a very funny, like the modern world's like, is kept going while all this crazy shit in these movies is happening. And he's like, my buddy drives for Amazon.

1:02:10I should be driving for Amazon right now. Like to prove a point. I joined the Navy. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and the idea that his only fans fiance, um, that like, yeah, like that there's a woman out there with lip fillers while the British islands are like coming apart from rage virus. It's a little on the nose, but it's also like pretty amazing. Yeah. Uh, and so I love that. and loved the gas station sequence. I thought that was really cool. Hell. Yeah. The missing S on the signage. And then the, is it the methane? Butane. The butane. Something. Yeah. Benzene. Benzene. Benzene. Is there anything else?

1:02:49No, I guess that was it. Oh, the Young Father score. Fucking incredible. I mean, Boyle's like very famous for having the best soundtracks. All of his movies, maybe barring yesterday, have the best soundtracks. but I thought this was a really inspired and unusual choice to have a band with some kind of like vocal addition but not defining like they weren't just pop songs in the middle of the movie like there were long extended sequences of instrumental and then you would eventually hear some singing but it was all kind of synced very carefully so you didn't feel like you were getting needle drops specifically the last song in particular pals is my favorite the one that hits over the closing credits but i highly recommend people check that out some more where does this stand for boil i think this is his 14th movie so let's let's let's pull up the filmography you think it's up there yeah don't you i mean i think so i mean probably top five for me i i would have to like watch it again but train spotting very important to see our of course Shallow Grave is very important to me.

1:03:59Steve Jobs is important to you. Steve Jobs and Sunshine. We all like Steve Jobs. Sunshine, a personal favorite of mine. I got a lot of time for T2. T2 is fun. I would take this over T2 in terms of sequels in his canon. What about, where would you put Trance? I think that's an island that you and I live on. And I live happily there. I drink Mai Tais every day. I've given birth to so many takes about Trance. and it's wonderful finale featuring the great Rosario Dawson. I really enjoy that movie as a modern noir. But I think it's divisive. I think a lot of his movies are pretty divisive because he takes these big swings.

1:04:4328 years later, it's got a lot of swings in it. You mentioned the birth sequence, the giant dick zombie. We didn't even talk about the Teletubbies and just the kid massacre to open this movie. Yeah, child murder. yeah that's I was like oh shout out to you guys for fucking it out I was like oh that's how it's gonna go I don't think you actually see any children you see them go in the room there's a lot of blood and they look so scared and that's worse and then their moms get slaughtered yeah but it's them sitting in the room watching Teletubbies and like weeping where I was like well this is terrible I hate this child free gang was like let's go did you ever like what do you know about the Teletubbies nothing nothing you I'm familiar with their work.

1:05:26You are? Yeah. I was like babysitting when the Teletubbies really like hit their prime. And that was a, that was a unique time. Does that have the sort of intellectual heft of Bluey or no? Uh, no opposite. It's like brain dead. Yeah. But it's like, it is like brain dead to the point that you are reaching like a Nirvana of sorts. You know, I think it is. I think that's interesting, but there is a lot. And also like a lot of drugs definitely involved in the creation. Of that. there's something perfect about trying to literally inoculate your children from the oncoming rage virus by putting them in front of Teletubbies.

1:06:02It's a very smart choice. And then neatly closed with the outfits at the end of the movie. I think this could be top five. Definitely. Where do you guys stand on 127 hours? I haven't revisited it in a long time. It's an experience to be sure but i don't need to revisit it you know okay i watched some steve jobs since tuesday when i saw 28 years later steve jobs still rocks yeah should be a rewatchables should be rewatchables not on our list 25 or 25 did we consider it is there a day no no i guess there wouldn't be a day no but there listen you could have made the case for 28 days later or sunshine for to me oh i thought you meant that steve jobs was not on our list and i was like it was never going to be in our list, but...

1:06:49No. Yeah. But I think I did put it on the long list. Sure, but it can't for... It's fine. We'll get into it later. I don't want to spoil things. Because of Apple? Yeah, that's it. Because of Apple. Yeah. Because of its relationship to female characters? Because Amanda only uses Trump phone now? I was thinking a lot about Kate Winslet's accent while you were talking about Steve Jobs. Oh, the Polish lady? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She tries really hard. Top five Garland female characters. But he made her the iPad. You know, he made his daughter the iPod, so a top five. Natalie Portman in Annihilation. Well, all the ladies in Annihilation.

1:07:25The robot lady, Alicia Vikander. Her name's Ava. Jesse Buckley in Men. Kirsten Dunst. Sure. Because she needed to buy that green dress so she could feel like a woman.

1:07:44That's what Kaylee Spaney's character told her to do. She did it for other reasons. She was thinking about uniting the country with her beauty. Using her feminine wiles to bring America back together. Reaching across the aisle. Ayo. Why can't Nancy Pelosi and Donald Trump do that right now? And give birth to democracy. Am I right? I just really, really dislike you. yeah where's where's fucking bernie and the dead senator trent lott you know why can't they come together infected trent lott is the alpha out on the hill why can't strom thurmond and jimmy carter's corpses reunite reanimate and bring democracy back to this country don't spoil alex garland's elden ring man well i'm glad you brought that up so alex garland is adapting a video game Elden Ring, which is a very popular video game that I don't know anything about and I'm not going to pretend to know anything about.

1:08:44Elden Ring. I know how it's spelled. Okay, alright. Okay, mama. Why'd you say it like that? I know she doesn't like that. I don't like it when someone's selling me something and they're like, hey mama, you got this. Or like, hey mama. Hang in there, mama. We got new bath towels on the way. Or just that whole thing. There has been like a whole, like the like girl like the girl boss mama thing has really happened in marketing over the last 10 years. Your kids pull ups are on the way mama. Yeah. You got this mama. Yeah. It was primarily during like prenatal workouts and then anytime you buy any sort of mom product.

1:09:28Yeah. I've programmed my Alexa to respond every time I order something on Amazon to respond to me as Wayne Jenkins it's just like hey you know what big dog we're sending you that Nicorette don't worry about it Wayne Jenkins Alexa is a gold idea I honestly Bernthal should be contacted immediately um have you learned anything I don't know I'm like on the third paragraph it's third person perspective characters play players freely roaming its open world yeah linear hidden dungeons can be explored Okay. But like, what happens? I don't... This is... You know what? When I was listening to you guys talk about Last of Us, which is obviously a show I'll never watch, but you were like, this diverges from the game, or this is what happens in the game.

1:10:13I like... I just did the research. What are... No, no, no. Not that. Yeah. Like, what is the game? Like, what is... Last of Us specifically has a lot of cut scenes, so there's a lot of like filmed narrative. Okay. Of Last of Us. So you're really just like watching... Yeah. Someone else. But then you have parts of it that you play. So like, and I think what Last of Us does is it puts you in the feet, the shoes of characters that you would ordinarily consider your antagonist. It's like all of a sudden I'm Keelan Fever. Oh, okay. Okay. You know, in an open world game, you explore the entire terrain that the creators have made.

1:10:49So you're like going all over the place that it's made. Right, it's like The Sims, right? In a way, yeah. Where you have free reign to explore at your own. And so you're just playing by like, and now I'm going to build a house and now I'm going to. If that's a feature of the game, I guess so. I don't play any games anymore. What happened to Alex Garland retiring? I pressed him on that issue and he was like, he was like, I was not lying. It is true. I have retired, but also I have an idea. It was the Tyrese Halliburton cap strain of directorial retiring. Yeah. Who do you, who do you got in game seven?

1:11:21Oklahoma City. I'm sorry. Why are you sorry? I just think, don't think they're going to lose at home. Okay. You don't have to apologize for that. I think I find that to be a fascinating industry story. This guy who's like theme, theme, theme in every movie. Right. Making a video game film for A24. So that's like that is where the industry lies right now. That's this is the way we are like exiting comic book era and firmly in video game era. And what was the most recent movie that I was ballerina? Where I was like, this feels like I'm watching someone play a video game. And that vibe, that experience of movie watching, I think will increasingly infect narrative.

1:12:10So I guess there are like dragons in this. It seems medieval. It's like Game of Thrones. I've read like 3 ,000 words on Elden Ring and I can't just be like, okay, what time period? You read 3 ,000 words just while sitting there? Well, I was skimming. Okay. You know, looking for like proper nouns or anything. You got this, mama. your copy of Elden Ring is on the way. I was just trying to understand. I could have gotten you Elden Ring for Mother's Day. What a missed opportunity this was. Are you excited for The Bone Temple? Yeah, that's a good way to close this conversation. So Nia DaCosta is directing the next film.

1:12:46In production currently. The director of The Marvels and The Candyman reboot. Right. Two films I did not care for. not an English filmmaker. Yeah. And this is a decidedly English story thus far. It's an interesting choice. It can be done, obviously. And it is next year. It's dated for. That's what they say. They just haven't funded the third one. This movie is. Which Boyle would direct. So what do we know? So it's Spike and allegedly Killian, but you would have to imagine there's a lot of Jack O 'Connell in the second one. Right, right, right. Any Rafe? Or he's just there attending his. he leaves the movie alive as far as we know but that's not the bone temple you have to assume it is that's what I thought there's another temple full of bones that would be weird I assumed that that was the bone temple but I don't know maybe it's all about getting back to the bone temple where is our young lad headed is he walking across mainland England yeah they're on mainland England but that's what his intention is to go across the country I think the island is supposed to be off the water.

1:13:55Because the Angel of the North, that big statue that's out there, is up in Tyne, I think. So I think they're supposed to be up in the Northeast. Jodie Comer does a Geordie accent in this film. So I think it's supposed to be in Northeast. Tyne, you're right. Yeah. So he's just trying to cross the country. I don't know. On his spirit quest. He's not released his itinerary. what would Wayne Jenkins say about his how can he intend to cross he doesn't know what the country is that's a great point so what's he fucking doing he's just going to keep walking until he can't see the ocean I feel like his brain should have fucking exploded when he saw an iPhone because he was like what's a frisbee and then the guy's like here's my girlfriend on my phone and he was like why does she look like that but you know And you know what Chris said?

1:14:46I'm so glad she looks like that.

1:14:52Do you think this movie is going to be a big success? Because obviously they got the sequel going. This was a weird case where they funded the movie and then Sony bought it. Or at least bought the rights to distribute it. It wasn't financed originally by the studio. I assume that the studio is behind the second one. Do you know what I'm a big believer in right now? Not caring? Old-fashioned word of mouth. Oh, yeah. And I think that... Oh, yeah. I have not met someone who walked out of this film and was like, that sucked. I've heard some that was not for me. I've seen some withering critiques of it.

1:15:21But across the spectrum, people are loving the alpha and what he's swinging with. And I think... Would you let the alpha impregnate you? I do think, honestly... Answer the question. Sinners is a really good test case where I think there was an initial, like, everybody's going to go out and do their part. Sperm doesn't get... Oh, my God. It's not infected. It's inoculated. Clearly. that's a great way of thinking about it forget about the placenta like what about those those guys these guys shooting something different i don't know i have no idea do you know how sex works like if it's like blood-borne then it you know is probably like separated and the placenta does kind of close off a wall you know and you like i would honestly pay a thousand dollars to watch you interview Alex Garland about zombie OBGYN.

1:16:13You're the same blood type as your kid. But we didn't know that the zombies could get erections and stimulate. They're evolving. Right. They're procreating because it's a natural imperative to do so. But let me just say, I do think that Sinners is a really good example of a great word of mouth film. You're trying to steer you. Were you fucking ass? I thought it was a good point. You just sat down in my chair for a minute. That was great. I was trying to explore how this fucking zombie baby got born. Zombie seed. What do we know? And I'm like. This is a podcast, bro. What do you. I think you're right.

1:16:50Something's happening at the movies, man. Yeah, I know. People are loving going to the movies. Now, they only want to go to horror movies and kids movies, but I'm okay with that. And it works for all three of us. You know, for its audience, Materialist did get a lot of people to the theaters. It did. everyone I know and then everyone wanted to yell at me they completely tricked the audience by making a rom-com trailer and guess what put asses in seats you know what that tells me make a real rom-com I agree with you make a real classical rom-com with young movie stars and put it in a movie theater am I right?

1:17:19I accept okay one more question this film was heavily embargoed until the day before its release didn't understand this I actually think it hurt the movie I I agree did not like this strategy I hope people go see it before they listen to us because the wonder that I felt when I was like, this movie's about Spike was really cool. Yeah. I mean, fortunately, this is coming out a little later than our episode usually would. And, you know, it does seem like people are excited to see it. It's like tracking pretty well for a movie of this kind, which is exciting. I'm very curious to see like what the exit scores and all that stuff are because horror audiences tend to vacillate.

1:18:00And it is, I think you can watch this movie and never think of Brexit and it's a great experience. I mean, like it doesn't have to be that, even though we talked a lot about that in this conversation. But if you go to a movie looking for the ideas, there's so much to pull from. I was going to have to lots of guys in the men's room at the Grove and be like, what do you think about that trenchant metaphor about Brexit? Right, man? So you were for Brexit? You weren't? No, I wanted to stay brothers with the EU. Stay together. Okay, cool. Amanda, any closing thoughts? I mean, I'm really trying to figure out what the endometrial lining would do in the infected situation.

1:18:38So I haven't been listening to anything you said for 10 minutes. I'm going to have an incredible science corner coming up soon. Solo science corner? So what would you want the theme to be of your solo mailbag? The real you guys. Ask me anything about Sean and Amanda. Oh. Yeah. I think people would want to listen to that, actually. What's it really like? Yeah. And what would you reveal? What's one tidbit? It's one of the great pleasures of my professional life. Oh, okay. Well, that sounds like a boring podcast. That's not good. Yeah.

1:19:13Well, reminder again. Mailbag. Mm-hmm. Monday. 800. Ask us questions. Movie questions. Please don't send us too many, like, hey, conceive of a whole movie and then cast it out. And then also director and writer, because... This is, this is, you, you've opened yourself up to wanting all this input, but then you want to curate the input. No, no. I just, it's like, I, like, I have a few movie ideas and I've shared them on previous mailbag episodes and it's like, you know, I'm out. Are you worrying about IP theft? No, no, no, no, no. Oh. No, it's just like, I have already shared all my ideas. We're not movie creators.

1:19:50Yeah, in previous mailbags. Movie commentators. Sure. So I don't have any more. So like, my ideas are getting bad, you know? Okay. so it's like you know a columnist only has so many columns the CR mailbag has no restrictions funny you keep getting questions from doctors I should ask some of these doctors about zombie procreation yeah that would be a great episode okay extend an invitation to one of your doctor friends to the cast of the pit yeah what does Noah Wiley think about the alpha's ability to impregnate a zombie woman Noah Wiley was definitely like this is about Brexit we should merge the world of the pit with 28 years later.

1:20:28That would actually be thrilling. Those guys would be incredibly useful in this movie. I would also like to not cast any films or create the films, but otherwise, you know, I think it would be useful to talk about movies right now. I think that's a better line of conversation for us. It's sort of like, what has come out this year? What's interesting? What are we seeing? What do we think is like really happening? Like, I think that stuff kind of comes up like anecdotally in discussion, but it's probably better driven through questions. And I think, you know, you're a tea leaf reader. Am I? Yeah, I think so.

1:21:00Yeah. I think you understand the game. Oh, thanks so much. That's very kind of you. Nice to hear your wisdom. I thought you were going to say nice things only about us. What? Hang on there, mama. Odyssey is coming next year. I am really excited for the teaser trailer and seeing it with you at 8am. So I need you to come back from Portland. Okay. I'd like to thank you both for recording late on a Friday afternoon. I was awake at 5.30 a.m. Eastern today. And here I am at 3.30 Pacific. After having gone through 28 years later and then driven quite far away. Yes, I flew on a plane. Yeah. And then I landed and I drove straight to the Ontario Mountain Village Regal Cinema.

1:21:43How was that experience? Watched this film. It was nice. Oh, good. It was fairly empty. Yeah. At my 10.40 a.m. screening. Very hot. Very hot. 15 degrees hotter than out here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then drove here and sat with you guys and had a great time. So thank you for that. Thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on this episode. And yeah, we'll be back with a mailbag. We'll see you then. I was doing the Princess Diana wave because it's about England. Keep that in the episode, please.

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