Five Burning Questions About Awards Season, and Our Golden Globes Predictions. Plus: The Ingenious ‘No Other Choice,’ with Park Chan-wook!

27:24Okay, go ahead. Which is I believe it will be Avatar, Fire, and Ash. You do? Yes. Okay. Because I think that this movie is once again extremely powerful and more powerful in both arenas than people expected. That it is still a great filmmaking spectacle and also is pushing towards$1.5 billion. So I could be wrong, but... It now appears to be on the outside of the Oscar race. And because of that, this is a way to honor what is a movie that is like killing in theaters right now. It's a good argument. I wouldn't be surprised. Okay. I believe that the Barbie Oppenheimer year, this is the award that went to Barbie.

28:04It is. So my instinct has thus been is this. Sinners. This goes to sinners. That's a good sound case. Listen, and I want to be clear. I'm not advocating for what I'm about to say. But if they give sinners box office and cinematic achievement, then it opens up drama to do one of the international features. And there are so many. Wow. You know, the discourse will be super obnoxious. Of course it will. Don't forget, they like quote unquote redid things, but it's the Golden Globes. And I think you just, you got to look, we were both very surprised by the number of international features that made both categories, that made screenplay, that made, you know, a lot of, a lot of categories.

28:51So I am curious whether they do Sinners here and then do something else. So I'm just going to say Sinners here and then I'll make my best drama decision later. It's great that we're different on that. And I think that's insightful. would be an interesting outcome. It could also win both. Let's be very clear that I think this is an insulting category. Sorry your movie wasn't good enough for us to nominate you in a best drama category. And that Sinners deserves best drama. It's also, it's ironic that like Frankenstein, because it was a Netflix film, is not eligible for this because this is the most Frankenstein shit of all time.

29:26It's a great point. There's this whole raft of a certain kind of movie that should be eligible here. And wasn't Taylor Swift the Heiress Tour nominated last year in this category. Like there's a, you know, is that a movie even? You know, it's a concert film, I suppose. But this is all, you know, I think there's a strong case in this category for F1. I thought you might go there. F1 is definitely, and F1 to me feels like a more fitting Victor, you know, because it's an original film. It played huge internationally. It's Apple's first really big win. And it's a way to kind of keep them involved in the Golden Globes game in a way too because they're not going to really have any other wins going down the line here.

30:04Are we going to do like some infographic of this where I pick sinners and then and whatever and people yell at me and call me racist? Because I really I don't want to do that. It's all up to you. OK, great. Because I don't believe that that's what should happen. I'm just doing a psychology. I will personally draw the infographic. I will draw your portrait. I will write all the correct answers that are the most racist seeming for you. I do not agree with what I am predicting. Yeah, I know. This is the problem with this. so I mean the other thing is K-pop Demon Hunters was a Netflix movie is clearly a huge achievement it's one of the most streamed movies of the year when they deigned to put it in theaters it made a shitload of money but it's not really a wide release movie so this it's a really interesting category and then we're not even talking about Zootopia 2 which is gonna make 2 billion dollars yeah it's fucking crazy movies are back have you heard about this?

30:54yeah they're fucking back I know it's very exciting it's so good you know what else was a big hit actually in the same vein as Sinners and if Sinners was not here Your weapons would be a good case for this too. This is a dumb category that does create some interesting discussion. How about that? I think this category is stupidly responding to a wish and a desire that we and many other people have, which is to see good, big budget entertainment represented at awards shows. That's right. And it can be done very poorly. It can be done very well. But when you do it very well and you pull it off, it is like an art of a kind and it's a different type of art than One Battle After Another or Sinners.

31:35But and, you know, Sinners is like does it all. And that is like a very special achievement. But I think we think that achievement is just like the best of achievement rather than some asterisk category. Where is a Minecraft movie in this category? Where is it? Yeah. Why is it not here? is Wicked for Good so dramatically better than a Minecraft movie? I'm not so sure. I'm not sure you could convince me of that. And did it inspire the same fervor than a Minecraft movie did? You live in a Wicked for Good house. Sure do. Do you listen to the Wicked songs or Wicked for Good songs more right now? You know what we're really enjoying?

32:16And honestly, I'm enjoying this as well is the one night only performance of Wicked. Oh, sure. With Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo at the Dolby Theater. And then I think they perform one song from Wicked for Good. And that, some bangers on that. Have you ever been to the Dolby Theater? Certainly. You have? Yeah. I went for the first time this year because the Los Angeles Ballet performs the Nutcracker at the Dolby Theater. Took my son. I just, we could use a spruce up. Do you know what I'm saying? Wow. I was like, wow. Well, I just, they have the Oscars there. And I was like, you know, I can, we could use some upgraded chairs.

32:53I feel for these people a little. Dorothy Chandler Pavilion was no great shakes either. It's true. You know, it's an award show. It's not a luxury home. I was just kind of like, everyone must be pretty uncomfortable. That's actually one of the things that we didn't talk about with YouTube getting the Academy Awards is that the possibility of the show being even longer. But I think many pundits out there, I heard Katie Rich say this on Prestige Junkie that she was like, you know, it is actually like an award show where you have to be seated. So like they're not going to make the show seven hours.

33:21Like they're not going to make, you know, incredibly famous people sit for that long. Which was a really smart observation. That being said, make it seven hours. Just do it. I'd like to watch it. Best original song from a motion picture. The nominees in this category are Dream is One from Avatar Fire Nash, sung by your girl, Miley Cyrus. Golden from K-pop Demon Hunters. I Lied to You from Sinners. No Place Like Home from Wicked for Good. The Girl in the Bubble from Wicked for Good. And Train Dreams. Yes. Which you performed on the subject. Yes. Performed by Nick Cave. Yeah. Golden. Golden. Which is great.

33:56Deserving. I'm still outraged that K-pop Demon Hunters will not get multiple nominations in this category because Golden was the only song shortlisted. That's right. And generally, I think that this category is an abomination of songs played over credits by pop stars who need a check. And all the K-pop Demon Hunters songs are A, catchy and B, woven into the film itself. Yes, I agree. That is the strongest case for it is that they are. Yes. essential to the telling of the story. Yeah, but no one consulted me. Best motion picture animated. Now, historically, you tend to rely on some friends of the show for your advisement.

34:36I didn't text Griffin and David on this one. Hi, Griffin and David. I love you. David was amused by your concern over Narnia. He let me know, just so you know. David, you have my phone number. I have seen three of the six films on this list already look at me wow so you've seen Demon Slayer Kimetsu no Yaiba Infinity Castle impressive the nominees here are Arco Demon Slayer Elio K-pop Demon Hunters Little Amelie or the Character of Rain and Zootopia 2 I'd like to take a moment to speak to you about Little Amelie Little Amelie or the Character of Rain yeah I watched this film I watched it with my daughter the film is in French Great.

35:21She watched the whole movie. That's adorable. Doesn't read. Yeah. Doesn't read subtitles. She's getting there. Is it French or Belgian? I can't remember. I think it's about a Belgian family that moves to Japan. And this two-year-old girl, like two-and-a-half-year-old girl, a young toddler, kind of experiencing the world, making this connection with her nanny in Japan. And it is beautiful. I thought it was a beautiful movie. That's wonderful. And I hope more people get a chance to see it. It was actually quite fascinating to sit with Alice and watch something and not talk and not be in English and her to be completely mesmerized by it.

36:01What did she ask you afterwards? Nothing. Nothing. Okay. She didn't feel the need to have it explained to her. I think she understood it well enough by observing it. It's really a beautifully made movie, a hand-drawn animation. And I liked it. It has a 0 % chance of winning in this category, and it will be the least seen film in this category by a wide margin. Arco probably next in line there, which is a cool movie that Neon released. The others are really the big hitters, and I have to assume this is K-pop Demon Hunters. I do as well. But there's a case for Zootopia 2. Sure. Big hit. People love it.

36:36Demon Slayer would be really bold. Me personally, I would have gone Chainsaw Man. Okay. But maybe an acknowledgement of the anime craze and what it means to theatrical movie going right now around the world would be kind of a cool stroke. I haven't seen Demon Slayer, by the way. Nor have I. WMAG released its best performances of the year issue and they did the accompanying videos with Lynn Hirschberg. And Michael B. Jordan's answer to the last movie that made him cry was first of all Armageddon, which makes him cry every time, which is same. Michael B. Jordan. And then I don't remember the name of the anime movie, but he explains it.

37:13And he was like, it was the fifth season and then a whole, I guess it was a show. It was very beautiful and it made me moved, even though. Wow, we got to find out what that was. It wasn't one of these movies? It wasn't Chainsaw Man? I don't think so. Okay, cool. Chainsaw Man is so confusing because it is a sequel to a season of television. Okay. We've seen that before. Yeah, it's called Downton Abbey. Great point. Although there were like four seasons of Downton Abbey. Can I just say to you, salute to you for Downton Abbey the finale or whatever in your top 50. The movie was great. It was great.

37:46I had a ball. We had a ball. We did, but I just like, you know, real ones know. And I tipped my hat to you. Thank you for acknowledging it and we love what we love. Sure. Also wherever you put Hamnet was really funny. It's sandwiched in between two things. I was like, that's my guy. I don't even remember being so surgical. You're crazy, but it was good stuff. I have strongly held beliefs. Best original score. Interesting category here. There's a big surprise in this one. The nominees were Alexander Desplat for Frankenstein, Ludwig Oranson for Sinners, Johnny Greenwood for One Battle After Another, Kong Ding Ray for Surratt, Max Richter for Hamnet, and Hans Zimmer for F1.

38:26I don't think Hans Zimmer or Kong Ding Ray are getting in at the Academy Awards. I could be wrong about that. I don't know. Surratt was big on the shortlist, which surprised us both. And I think that is a bit of a reflection of the people who vote both on the short lists and who watch all the international features are more disciplined than your average voter. But, you know, it has awareness. And then it was on, I want to say, IndieWire's survey of the director's favorite movies of the year. There was a lot of Surat and there was a lot of New Belvog. Yeah. Surat episode coming. We got to figure out when we're going to do that.

39:04I'd like to... There's a couple of scores from this year that I feel like are a little overlooked. Okay. I kind of made fun of Ferskin Hendrix's score from Poor Things a couple of years ago. But I thought what he did with Begonia was amazing. And I listened to it quite frequently. I really like it. I've been listening to a lot of scores lately. Just being like, and now let me cue up the Begonia score is another incredible insight into your life. What time of day are you putting on the Begonia score? Any old time. Okay. At dawn, at dusk, as I go to bed. I read your, you know, top 100 movies of the year, like in my kitchen during breakfast while my children scream, like we're banging measuring cups and the Marty Supreme score was playing.

39:54Many people are saying that my list making is the Soma of life and that we can get through the hard times by looking at lists that I have created. Nala Senefro's score for The Smashing Machine is unbelievable is an amazing work of composition and that movie has gotten kicked a lot in the last few months I know a lot of people don't like it I like it I now think it's like underrated relative to the Marty Supreme craze and I think one of the ingenious aspects of it is this score I would love to see something like that around here the score over the fighting sequences and the way it's married to the way that those are shot the fights are cut yes yeah and cut It is beautiful.

40:31Totally. I love that so much. I mean, obviously, we've been talking about Daniel Lopatin's score for Marty Supreme, which is not nominated here. I would love to see it nominated at the Academy Awards. I'm trying to think what are some other ones that I've really clicked on. Can you just vamp for a second while I open up my playlist that I've built? Yeah. Thank you. So would you like me to make my prediction here? Or just talk to— I mean, I think it will be Ludwig Garnson for Sinners, but it could go Johnny Greenwood. I don't think it will, actually. He hasn't won. Yeah, but I don't really think that the Golden Globes care about that.

41:05And you could see Alexander Desplat for Frankenstein. Because I keep, which I don't agree with, but... I really didn't like that score. I didn't like it either, but it's not... I like scores he's done in the past. Again, this is not what we would do. It is what we think the Golden Globes would do. And I think they're going to be looking for some Frankenstein opportunities. Alexander Desplat and Ludwig Orantin are both two-time winners. again it's that's crazy he won for Grand Budapest and Shape of Water and Ludwig won for Black Panther and for Oppenheimer so overlooking Johnny Greenwood again even though this isn't my favorite Johnny Greenwood score I personally much prefer at times There Will Be Blood and The Master and Phantom Threat I think all three of those are superior to this but it's the most different and the most varied in terms of the different instruments that he applies the different tones and moods that he's using.

42:00So, I don't know. I am thinking more about the entire ballot and where people... And I do think that one battle is going to have enough representation in other places that people are going to be like, I don't know, I should... I mean, you could make the case that Surratt is so surprising that there's just like enthusiasm for it and then they'll suddenly be on stage at the Golden Globes. I don't think that that's going to happen. I don't want to be smart to that score too much, but it is like starter kit club music you know like it's just it's rave music it's well it's well applied in the film but is there anything like audacious or creative or overwhelming about it I mean to me that's like that would be a prize for the filmmaking choice not for the actual composition of the score but you know what it's maybe everything all at once couple of other scores I want to shout out Christopher Bear your guy from Grizzly Bear did the score for Roofman really good David Holmes as always crushed it on Black Bag working with Steven Soderbergh Jung Jae-il on Mickey 17 working again with Bong Joon-ho the Holiday Brothers on Weapons a long time friends of Zach Kragger's I loved their work I did like Bryce Desner's work I'm not a national fan but I did think his work on Train Dreams was really nice yeah beautiful Volkl Burtelman in House of Dynamite you know a movie that I'm really mixed on but I think his score is quite good yeah very good Daniel Pemberton for Materialist yes a lot of really good scores this year so I just wanted to shout some of them out.

43:26Okay. Next category. You'll have another opportunity. We have two and a half more months of... You're right. Who did you pick? Sean, you need to make your pick. I'm going to pick Johnny Greenwood just to mix it up because I think you're right that Ludwig is going to win but to me, we need to kind of see if the Johnny Greenwood thing can happen here. Okay. Okay. Best motion picture, non-English language. It was just an accident. No other choice. Secret agent. Sentimental value. Surratt, the voice of Hinderjab. Yeah. I'm going with secret agent here. I wrote it was just an accident. So here's the thing.

43:54What is the thing? Secret Agent has one other nomination on this page. Smart. And It Was Just an Accident is everywhere else. Now, that suggests, I think I did have It Was Just an Accident. I think instinctively I wrote that and then deleted it and put Secret Agent because there aren't that many other places where they can reward Secret Agent. It Was Just an Accident has four nominations total. So I, but I think that there's such enthusiasm for The Secret Agent. Okay, I'll go with that. They're going to pick the opportunity here and they can maybe like parcel it out to, it was just an accident somewhere else.

44:33Sounds really smart. I don't know. I mean, it could also, the other way to read it is, it was just an accident, has four other nominations. So they really love it. So they're giving it to, it was just an accident. So maybe I'm being stupid. Because the Golden Globes is such a smaller body relative to the Academy Awards or even some of the big guild votes. they can dole out awards to a variety of different films so i the way that you're thinking about it is it makes a lot of sense and they can be more strategic in terms of getting more people up on stage and more films spread around whereas at the oscars in the last four or five years it's been a little bit more of like one film wins four or five six oscars and you get this consensus building for films around around that time so i think that makes sense that being said it was just an accident is a huge statement.

45:22I agree. I mean, I think it is going to show up. Like, I argued both sides of it. Okay. I'm going, this is good that we're splitting. And mine also, like, gives a lot more credit to the voters than perhaps they've evidenced that they deserve. I suspect that this thinking will come up again in this next category, which is best performance by a female in a supporting role. Nominees are Emily Blunt for The Smashing Machine, Elle Fanning for Sentimental Value, Ariana Grande for Wicked for Good, Inga Ibsdott or Lilius for Sentimental Value, Amy Madigan for weapons and Tiana Taylor for one battle after another.

45:51We forgot Ariana Grande in our supporting actress discussion. I do think that will happen. You do think it will happen, but you don't think Cynthia Erivo will happen. I didn't say that. Okay. You were putting that into... I said that we would see how much she wants to work it, but I do think that Ariana Grande, the reviews for Ariana Grande were like the big... She's so great. And everyone thinks Cynthia Erivo is great, but they were very mad about her sex cardigan or whatever. So... I don't know if mad was the word, but um they had opinions yeah so then there's someone missing from this list right now if we're assuming that Emily Blunt is not in and perhaps Elle Fanning is not in as well right I don't know who that is Wunmi Masaku that would be wonderful who am I forgetting I can't remember Wunmi Masaku would be great I picked Tiana Taylor okay considering the way that you are analyzing this yeah you might be right that it's gonna be either Amy Madigan or Inga Ibsdott or Lilius I have Inga Ibsdott or Lilius because this is the way to acknowledge sentimental value yes Because I think that she is a real breakout star.

46:49And also because these are no longer the Hollywood Foreign Correspondents Association. So Hollywood Foreign Press. For Hollywood Foreign Press Association. That's right. And then the other made up one is the Correspondents Dinner. That's the White House. Yeah, I know. I'm hosting that this year, by the way. Did I tell you? I'm super excited. I've got a lot of great stuff lined up. A lot of good ideas. Can you imagine? That is maybe like the only thing where I would just be like, we're done. That's like, I think literally. Yeah, literally anything else in the world you could go do. And I'm like, yeah, sure.

47:25And if you were like, what I need to do is I need to host the correspondence. I've been talking to Hegseth for months. It's going to be great. We are on different paths. And that is, I wish you well. Okay. We got to get our Avengers Doomsday episode in first. Just we can't stop until I've hosted the White House Correspondence Dinner, which I don't think happens anymore. And also. I'm not keeping up. Nine hour pod on Doomsday. Okay. Okay. So you're going Inga Epsotter-Lilius. What happened to Sentimental Value? What happened? Well, it's coming back a little bit. Is it? I don't know. You loved it.

47:59Paul Thomas Anderson loved it. I think this movie's going to win Best Picture in July. I know. I have the text message. My friend Lauren loved it. You know, so that's three people. I know. Wow. That's quite a quorum. I admire two of your, two of the three people's taste. Yeah. I really thought it was going to be stronger. And I think part of it is that Secret Agent and It Was Just an Accident have been so strong. And so there being this many international films is a relatively new phenomenon. And so the groups tend to kind of lean towards one or the other. Maybe a little bit is that it's somewhat similar to The Worst Person in the World.

48:32Maybe it doesn't feel different enough with Renata Rensve and the story of young women going in crisis and, you know, family trauma. And I don't know. I don't know. But I really, as I've said nine times now in the last three months, I really think that film is quite good. And particularly, it's a case where I try to not get cranky about other critics taking movies down these days. I did that a lot in the past on this show. That's the one movie where I read reviews of that movie and I'm like, this is such axe grinding. This is such, I can't understand it. It's funny, there's axe grinding in the movie.

49:06There is. Which is interesting. and I think that is one of the reasons that I was... It's three different movies and also one movie. And there's still moments in it. I mean, the house opening is so transcendent. Beautiful filmmaking and writing. And the shot of the house towards the end, again, I'm a superficial person who was most affected by all the stuff about the house. But that's part of the reason why it's such a great movie. I thought you were going to love it. I was blown away that you were not that into it. I really tried twice. but I like all the performances again me and Scandinavians you know it's a dialogue it is it sure is I don't know that's right you guys are figuring things out so much in common and yet so different so I just I don't know you know I'm trying I'm monitoring that situation if you had told me in August that the one way in which sentimental value could be honored at the Globes would be Inga Ibstad or Melia Sattel I'd be like what the fuck But don't you think a little bit, maybe the award season issue is that the being has become, or the robot has become sentient.

50:15And now all the things that we kind of talk about and game out or suggest, do you actually happen? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that's what you were saying before. Yeah. I guess it's come online. Yeah, Pinocchio is a real boy. Yeah. No, 100%. I think you're right. Oh, Papa. Best performance by a male actor in a supporting role. The nominees are Benicio Del Toro, Jacob Elordi, Paul Meskel, Sean Penn, Adam Sandler, and Stellan Skarsgård. Right. Now, there's a world in which you could do Stellan Skarsgård here for sentimental value. Is that what you're doing? No, I chose Benicio. I chose Benicio Del Toro.

50:52But that logic doesn't really track because this is a way to honor Frankenstein. This is a way to honor Jay Kelly. This is a way to honor other movies that aren't going to get a look. It could be any of those things, but we have seen like the quote unquote new Golden Globes is just sort of copycat. And I think Benicio is one, just like such an incredible performance. Just straight up loved it. And two, so pervasive, like at every single awards ceremony from, you know, up till now. Yeah. That they'll just be like, yeah, it's Benicio. He's another one that's so interesting because obviously we adore what he did in the movie.

51:27and PTA and Leo have gone out of their way to talk about the ways in which he kind of brought kind of invention and creativity of that character into the structure of the movie. So I'm not, I don't, I hope this doesn't seem like I'm taking away any of his achievements, but it reminds me a little bit of the Renee Zellweger, Judy Garland win where I'm like, she has one. Like why the rush to, I like this performance in this movie a lot more than I like Judy. So I don't want to conflate the two. Ocean waves. It gives me a similar feeling of like, Benicio did win in this category a long time ago. And he's obviously like beloved.

52:09Everybody thinks he's just like one of the great actors of our lifetime. And he's totally worthy of two. I'm just kind of like talking through an idea here, but it is interesting that someone like Stellan Skarsgård, who has also got this huge body of work, who's obviously very good in that film. You can make the case that he's the lead of that movie. is like not really even contending, it seems like, anymore. Or maybe that's one of those like tricks of the race right now that we're not seeing. Maybe he's stronger than we realize. He could be up there on Sunday. I wouldn't be surprised. Okay. I guess I would be surprised, but I wouldn't be like, what?

52:38Okay. You don't hold against the kind of like thought process I was just going through there with Benicio, right? Like I'm trying, I don't want to like. No, no, no, no, not at all. I mean, I do, I think that we have been trained watching these for so long to think in the parlance and the ideology of the awards, which is like, now we got to give someone out for this one and it's their time and it's all that stuff. And giving Benicio this Oscar would be let's just give an Oscar to the best supporting performance. Like, which I think is good. I agree. Let's give an Oscar to the good thing, but we're not used to that.

53:12That's not how we've been brought up. You're right. That's well put and that is really jarring to me that we're in this new time. Best screenplay motion picture. the nominees are Paul Thomas Anderson Ronald Bronstein and Josh Safdie Ryan Coogler Jafar Panahi Eskil Vogt and Joachim Trier Chloe Zhao Maggie O 'Farrell so I have four different movies written here with double question marks there are five nominees no there are six no there are six so I I don't think it's going to go to Ronald Bronstein and Josh Safdie though I absolutely love that movie Josh was lovely on the podcast by the way I finally got to listen to it.

53:52The man. And I don't think that it's going to Chloe Zhao and Maggie O 'Farrell for Hamnet. Nor do I. Which is a screenplay I think less of. The other four you could game, you could argue for all of them. It's plausible. Last year, Conclave won in this category. And the year before that, Anatomy of a Fall won in this category. So, and we really only have pretty good screenplays honestly two great screenplays and two films that were nominated for best picture but didn't win one did go on to a screenplay Oscar one did not yeah and did Conclave win as well Conclave did as well yeah for Adaptive Peter Strawn so I guess in that case well that's a good those are good shouts then yeah so what do we think is winning here to me that's I think Sinners is winning yeah I do as well and I think Sinners in one battle are winning at the Academy Awards and so if I feel that way at least right now Right.

54:48you gotta make a choice between those two. And I think they're probably gonna go Sinners here and PTA bigger. I agree. Okay. So I go with Sinners as well. I chose Kugler. So you're choosing Kugler as well. Okay. Yeah. Best performance by a female actor in a drama. Mm-hmm. This is an interesting category and I like it. I like the nominees here. This is the best thing the Golden Globes has done this year. The nominees are Jessie Buckley for Hamnet, Jennifer Lawrence for Die My Love, Renata Rensve for Sentimental Value, Julia Roberts for After the Hunt, Tessa Thompson for Hedda, and Ava Victor for Sorry Baby.

55:25Now, this is what I want award shows to be, which is like, absolutely. Jesse Buckley, Renata Rensve, no doubt. Yeah. We've been talking about them for months. They are among the best performances of the year. Two really exciting young actors, kind of rising. Jennifer Lawrence, big star. Julia Roberts, big star from a different generation. Also fantastic performances. No doubt. I think they're both worthy. Tessa Thompson, someone who's like kind of in that honorable mention category throughout this race. So I like this movie getting a little bit of shine and she's a really good actor. And Ava Victor, this was probably the biggest surprise of the Golden Globe nominations.

56:00It's interesting that it's happening in a category where I'm like, there's no competition here. Yeah. And maybe that's kind of the point. Right. So you can get a little creative. Yeah. And you also have, you don't have any, you have a few extra spots because some of the surefire nominees are over in comedy musical exactly so maybe my question is should there all actually be drama and comedy and musical delineations we need more we need more categories and we need more uh like above the line categories too um or just like quote unquote recognizable late you know to the lay person creative people some were in front of the camera somewhere but we should show all of the awards but it yeah we just i didn't realize the critics choice was like giving awards out during the commercials?

56:42What the hell is that? I don't know. All right. Jesse Buckley, I assume, we're united on that? Yeah. Best performance by a male actor in a drama. Another very interesting category. The nominees are Joel Edgerton for Train Dreams, Oscar Isaac for Frankenstein, Dwayne Johnson for The Smashing Machine, Michael B. Jordan for Sinners, Wagner Mora for The Secret Agent, and Jeremy Allen White in Springsteen Deliver Me From Nowhere, which of course was Paul Schrader's favorite film of 2025. what is it the the basis of philosophy what's the movie called the basics of philosophy which is the new name of this podcast.

57:18I'm going Wagner-Mora here. I went Michael B. Jordan. It could happen and it would be great. I don't know. I mean, Fernando Torres is right there. What if it's Dwayne Johnson? What if it's Oscar Isaac? I hope that doesn't happen. That's a performance I do not. I love Oscar Isaac. I absolutely love him. I do as well. That's not a performance I enjoyed. Interesting race. We'll see. You're really on the Wagner-Mora train. Yeah. You really think this is very powerful. I think it's happening. You could be right. As we have said many times, Brazil, right? There are some Brazilian voters in the Golden Globes, but it's not like 10 ,000 Brazilians vote on the Globes.

57:54Well, if Fernando Torres won last year, I don't know. You just got to know where you are. Watch this space. I guess so. Actually, watch this space at 4.30 p.m. PT. Oh, we were supposed to do that. 7.30 p.m. ET on Instagram. We're going to go live right before the Golden Globes. Chit-chat. hold on I'm looking up our Instagram handle at the big pick pod Chris Ryan is so good at this he has everything memorized he does it right at the beginning the email address the Instagram handle in the fucking email like he's looking at emails from listeners I did that once and it was a wonderful experience and then I saw a lot of like you know unsolicited opinions and essays and I was like I don't have time for that couldn't be me but we will be going live on Instagram.

58:43And you go live every morning, right? 6 a.m.? I have thought about it. You know, Yassi Salek Wake up with Amanda. Yassi Salek goes live from time to time. I've seen it happen. I've thought about joining in from time to time. Like in a FaceTime situation or like going to her house? No, there is a feature where if you are friends with the person, yeah, you can join the live. Real jump scare. Maybe we should have Yassi on the Golden Globes live. I would love that. Yeah, I would as well. I remember she desperately wanted to participate when I was dressed as the papal conclave. Here's the thing. I don't know if she's going to be in our time zone in any way, shape, or form.

59:15Yassi, if you are listening, come home. Where is she? I miss you. She's in London, so that's fine. And I think she's having a great time, and it snows. The streets want Yassi back on the pod. Yassi, I need you. What movie is Yassi going to come and talk about on the pod? Well, she's not going to be back in time for Testament of Anne Lee, which we saw together. Oh. We went to the beach, and then we saw Testament of Anne Lee. It was a beautiful evening. Yeah. Talk about ecstatic devotion to hanging out and not doing your job. Best performance by a... Wait, you picked Wagner Mora, yes? Yeah. Okay, best performance by a female actor, musical, or comedy.

59:45Nominees are Rose Byrne for If I Had Legs, I'd Kick You, Cynthia Erivo for Wicked for Good, Kate Hudson for Song Sung Blue, Chase Infinity for One Battle After Another, Amanda Seyfried for The Testament of Anne Lee, and Emma Stone for Begonia. Emma Stone, bit of an afterthought. Mm-hmm. Two-time Academy Award winner. That's true. Biggest star in Hollywood. And maybe she's starting, she wasn't campaigning. You know, she hasn't really been out on the trail. She wasn't at the Critics' Choice Awards. That's right. But I think she's also in the W Magazine performances issue. And she clarified that neither she nor Jennifer Lawrence will be playing Miss Piggy.

1:00:17Miss Piggy will be playing Miss Piggy. Does that mean Frank Oz will be playing Miss Piggy? You know, she didn't say that. Okay. Frank Oz is on in years. A legend. One of my favorite people. And you can call another of your favorite people, Emma Stone, and ask her about this. I'm reading. Emma Stone and Frank Oz talking, I would give me, like, I go into cardiac arrest. That is a pod I would listen to. Two goats. We're learning a lot about you today. I'm a normal man. I love the Muppets. Yeah. I love redheads. Muppet Christmas Carol didn't really take. Yeah. It's an L for Knox. It's okay. He loves Star Wars and Whispering Avatar Fire and Ash to me.

1:00:59Just he learned the title. He's very scared of Avatar Fire and Ash. Yeah. He's never seen it. Just like all the other films that are being released around Christmas time. Terrified of its box office power. I picked Rose Byrne. I wrote Emma Stone. Okay. I mean, sure. She's super famous. Yeah. I don't really think there's a lot of discipline in this category here. You could see Kate Hudson because she sings. Absolutely possible. Beloved member of the Hollywood community. Probably campaigns quite well with the Globes organization. Do you know about Kate Hudson's New Year's Eve party? No. In Aspen?

1:01:30Were you there? No, I wasn't because enough with Aspen. Like you can't. Enough with Aspen? Yeah. I've not been. There is so much celebrity content. So the two locuses of celebrity content over the holidays. Oh, I'm sorry. Like, you look at the Knicks and this is what I look at, okay? Excuse me. It's Jermaine. But I've been to a Knicks game. Like, you've not been to Aspen and you're like, enough with Aspen. But listen, Kate Hudson was in Aspen. Leo was in St. Barts. None of the Knicks are nominated here today. So what I'm talking about. The Knicks are in a fucking tailspin. Losers are four in a row.

1:02:03They look terrible. I don't know. No, the defense is falling apart. Okay. Kate Hudson hosts a New Year's Eve party in Aspen. And there's a lot of drumming and there's a bonfire and all sorts of stuff. A lot of drumming. Yes, that's what she explained in a bonfire. So would you be interested in that? You like mountains. I do like the mountains quite a bit. I would love to go to Aspen. I'm nothing against Aspen. Not really a bonfire guy. I'm not 18. Yeah. And that's something cool that you do when you light some shit on fire. and run around and drink Natty Light. Like, the logistics of it, I just, where are you supposed to sit?

1:02:41You know, because you're too close and then your face is just on fire. You're too far away. You're freezing cold. You can't see anything. Like, I just... Hard to believe you didn't get invited to this party. Given all your bonfire ethics. Okay, so Emma Stone is my pick and Rose Byrne is your pick and it'll probably be Kate Hutt's new wins. Best performance by a male actor, musical or comedy. Nominees are Timothee Chalamet for Marty Supreme, George Clooney for Jay Kelly, Leonardo DiCaprio for one battle after another. Ethan Hawke for Blue Moon. Lee Byung-hun for no other choice. Jesse Plemons for Begonia, a name we have not been uttering very much these days.

1:03:13Who do you think is winning? I wrote down Chalamet. I wrote down Leonardo DiCaprio. Okay, well, we'll find out. I've chosen three acting winners from one battle. Leo, stay in the country until Sunday. He's not listening to the show. You know, I learned his Houston's order over the break. That's another thing I learned. What? It was posted on Dumois. Can you guess his use of Torah? Okay, well then it's verified if it's posted on Dumois. What the fuck? They're at South Beverly Grill. Uh-huh. It's honestly the most psychotic thing I've ever heard. They ordered the artichokes like a seasonal Houston specialty.

1:03:47Leonardo DiCaprio and Vittoria Seretti. Okay. And the administrators of Dumois all sitting together? No, the tipster. They ordered the artichokes and took them to go, did not touch them. This is not authorized content. Like, we are owned by a global corporation. You can't just be like, this happened. What you meant to say was you read on the internet that a tipster may have erroneously shared what could or could not be the South Beverly Grill order. All right, mister. Suddenly, you're legal ethics. Come on. No. Yeah. Anyway. A man's order in a restaurant is sacred. artichokes to go is like on the level of you being like i turn on the begonia soundtrack whatever like why are you taking a hot artichoke to go i kind of want to just put it on right now and just vibe out for the next 10 minutes before we make the final two picks i don't i have no idea what's gonna win emma stone and leo is like a really weird picks for me but i just feel like we're just trying to make it interesting listen i went normie on these you went interesting you went normie on other ones it's fine what if jesse plemmons gets gets up there and it's like i won yeah then we get a reaction shot to kiki you know who would get knocked out of the oscar race probably ethan hawk that would be sad so i don't know interesting race best director okay paul thomas anderson ryan kugler guillermo del toro jafar panahi yoakim trier and chloe chow i think i have paul thomas anderson here i do too yeah i mean i i think it's undeniable I mean it could be Panahi you never know like Guillermo del Toro could be up there it could be Kugler I don't think that it'll be Trier but maybe you could see it I think Trier and Jau are not I agree the other four are all in play but I'm going with I'm going with Paul Thomas Anderson how do you think he's going to feel about having to give 19 speeches in the next three months it doesn't seem like something he truly loves I hope that he'll spend some time you know, with people who give him confidence and I don't know, then go write some, some really weird ass movies about his feelings.

1:05:59Can I tell you what I would do if I was him? Yeah. I would, uh, bring a combination TV and VCR up to the stage and I would pop in the VCR, the VHS copy of Boogie Nights and it would be queued up to the scene where Dirk Diggler accepts the adult film star awards. Okay. And I would just play that and then I would walk off stage. Okay. And I would do that at every award show. Okay. So is it like on one of those little roller carts that we had in elementary school? Okay. Yeah, they roll it out. But it's got to be VHS. Is it a combo TV VCR? Yeah. Yeah. It's all one machine. Yeah. Okay, beautiful. Yeah.

1:06:34I mean, you could probably get like, you know, one of those like straps that they put on a Target for diapers and stuff and just like carry it that way. You know, you don't even need a cart. You need a more heavy duty one than that. Sure. I mean, yeah, it wouldn't be tape, but you could get some sort of - He should just wear a backpack. Just put it in a backpack, get on stage, unzip his backpack, pull out the TV VCR. That'd be good. That would not be at all weird. I do miss. You know what I miss? I'm feeling loose. I just miss the 90s. And yet you won't let me talk about art shows. You've got plenty of time on art shows.

1:07:04In the 90s, when the Beastie Boys were like, we're sending up some guy in a Teutonic yodeling outfit to accept our award. Yeah. That was fucking great. I mean, I too miss the Beastie Boys. It's one of the major reasons that I loved Marty Supreme so much. But just in general, just that sense of not being so stuffed shirt about everything, fucking around a little bit. It's why I liked that Timmy speech last year. He was just like, fuck it, I'm Steve Jobs. That was very funny. Okay. Best motion picture drama. Okay. Frankenstein, Hamnet. It was just an accident. Secret agent, sentimental value, and sinners.

1:07:44I guess I'm going to do what I said I was going to do. and do It Was Just an Accident? Bold. It is bold, but it's nominated in Best Motion Picture Drama, Best Director, Best Screenplay, and International Feature, right? Like, it's everywhere it needs to be. So, and if they do Sinners, I think you're going to pick Sinners, and I think that's right, and that's what I would vote for. Okay. I don't know. I could be wrong, but what if I'm right? it's one way to go through life um i picked sinners i think it'll be sinners okay i think this will confirm that the race will be sinners versus one battle yeah it'll be interesting because they're from the same studio and we can talk about musical or comedy right now so then we can kind of cap with that right quick discussion so for musical or comedy blue moon begonia marty supreme no other choice nouvelle vague one battle after another yeah one battle correct um would be very surprising if one battle after another did not win here.

1:08:44If it doesn't win, all bets are off. Because of the point that you're making where it's just like, this is on TV. Yeah. People are going to see this. And if it doesn't win, it will be the first surprising thing, truly surprising thing that has happened in this stretch run. I don't think it's likely. I don't think that's likely. I don't even really know what would win. It feels like it's head and shoulders above all the other contenders. I guess Marty Supreme is closest. Yeah. Maybe the freaks out there push for Begonia. We didn't have Begonia on our last top 10. Yeah, the amount of begonia on this list was, I think, a surprise to all of us.

1:09:16And there was almost no begonia on any of the short lists. Very true. Very true. It's an interesting one. I know there was a lot of Surratt's. We put Surratt on there. Surratt getting Best Picture would be nuts. But you never know. You don't. You never know. One Battle vs. Sinners vs. Hamnet, still the top three? Hamnet is not a critics movie, but it is an industry movie. Yeah. Is Hamnet going to have a bigger night than we realize? well where would it win it would i think it will win in best actress do you i don't think it's going to win adapted screenplay over pta i don't think so either but who knows i mean if it does then like you know uh-oh uh do you think what else would it win i don't i think drama oh you mean on you know i was just gaming out the oscars paul mescal maybe listen i'm just just counterfactual.

1:10:09The world is full of possibilities. We've explored some of them in our predictions. Just trying to keep my energy up. What I have written down here at the bottom of all of this is no Frankenstein and 12 question marks. So it just seems weird to me that... The no Frankenstein wins? Yeah. I mean, they don't really do a ton of below the line stuff here at the Golden Globes. That's true. And that's really where it's going to dominate in production design and costume design and hair and makeup. maybe in visual effects like those are the places where it's really going to show up yeah it's there for score and it could win as you said Desplot could win right but it's just it was nominated in supporting actor best actor drama director and best picture drama so I don't know and it just feels like a Globes you're right it'll probably sweep I'm just I'm saying I just it feels like a Golden Globes thing I don't know it's a good point you know, no other choice has three golden globe nominations, which is very cool.

1:11:12It's also going more wide this Friday. I don't know how wide it's going. It had a very limited release on Christmas. I hope it's going into a lot of theaters. It's a little hard to say because it's a very entertaining movie. It's not, this is not a stuffy awards movie. And in fact, one of the reasons why I think it's maybe not going to do as well at the award shows is because it's, you know, black humor. Yeah. It's very violent and elaborate. Let's talk a little bit about it. So it's directed by Park Chan-wook. He's got three co-writers in the film, Lee Kyung-mi, Don McKellar, who he's been working with quite a bit in the last few years, and Lee Jae-hae.

1:11:47It's based on the novel The Axe by Donald Westlake. There actually has been another adaptation of this novel that Costa Gavris made about 25 years ago. I've never seen it. I'm fascinated to see it. It was hard to track down. I tried to track it down last night. The stars of this movie are Lee Binh-hun, Sun Ye Jin, Park Hee Sun, Lee Sung Min. Abruptly laid off after 25 years at the same company, a desperate man goes to extreme lengths to eliminate the competition for the job that he wants. Now, I know you first saw this movie. I did. At the Venice Film Festival. And you revisited it last night.

1:12:21What'd you think? I mean, this is just an excellent, everything about it is so well done that you're just kind of like, I can't believe how good this is. and that it's sustained so well over two and a half hours of what is, like, it is comedy. It is very, very hard to hit this tone this consistently. Not to mention all of the production design and just the shots, the beautiful shots, everything that is done so beautifully within it. But there is a very specific understanding of the attitude that this movie has about the world and the character in it that is consistent in a way that's like pretty amazing.

1:13:07Yeah, I agree. It's such a tic-tac-toe movie for me. I loved it. I've talked about it a couple times already on the show because it is both of those things. And over the years, if you read interviews with Park and if you read reviews of his work, Hitchcock comes up over and over again. Yeah. And I think even when we talked about The Handmaiden on 25 for 25, we were like, if they would have let Hitchcock get his kink out in the world. Like this is kind of what he would have done. And this movie is another continuation of that. And like Libyan Hun is in a Jimmy Stewart part in this movie. And this really fine grain combination of scary and violent and extremely strongly framed social commentary up against really funny sense.

1:13:51Attitude is the word you use. And I like that word a lot. It's kind of like everyone's a fucking idiot. We're all kind of screwed. these are terrible systems that we've created for ourselves and we're all kind of trapped there's these like vagaries that get us through the day and we've tricked ourselves into thinking like oh if I have the perfect nuclear family and if I have the perfect house I'll be really happy but it can all be taken away from us so quickly and then what do we do when that thing is taken away from us but kind of constantly played where like the lead of the film is simultaneously sympathetic and a buffoon that's also really hard to do And we talked about this a little bit with Bob Ferguson, a little bit with Marty Mauser, the lead character being like, is this guy good or bad?

1:14:34Right. How much do I like spending time with him? Is the film rooting for him? And am I supposed to be rooting for him? And this is like a very interesting twist on that. I don't think that this film is rooting for anyone. No. And sort of rooting for all of us in the sense that, oh, we live in this nightmare that we've created. I saw this movie maybe a day after I saw Begonia at the Venice Film Festival, and I thought that they were a very interesting doubleheader. Totally. Because they're both about men of slightly different ages and certainly like different sociological settings. But men who have been cast out of the world and like the social system by like basically, you know, like the global corporation and are realizing that they're upon, are realizing that they've lost their sense of place and are kind of losing it in the way that they respond to it.

1:15:35Now, who's right and who's wrong and what's real and what's not and who's the hero and who's the villain kind of gets turned on their heads in different ways. And one of them is a kind of like a gotcha thriller. And this is No Other Choice is sort of a thriller, but it is more like a man on a mission. but and then ultimately like what the mission is the the last shot of no other choice is as depressing in its own way as the the coda of begonia is in its way as well of um and it's sort of like you got these men are like validated almost and then like you get what you wish for yeah val right but alone you know like right but defeated you know like and it was sort of like we're all defeated.

1:16:22It's a really good comparison and I do think there's something very Spartan about Begonia. Like it's a very stripped down movie and No Other Choice is the opposite. No Other Choice is so ornate and elaborate and like honestly a little bit confusing at times and it was very helpful to see it a second time just to kind of understand the mechanics of the quote unquote kills. So just, I mean we'll talk, we'll spoil the movie a little bit because I spoiled it a little bit with Park 2 and we talked. But after he's laid off he tries to get another job to have this big, we see him in this family life early in the film and he's very happy.

1:16:53He's barbecuing, celebrating with his family. He got some eel from the company. Yes. He's been able to touch like upper middle class lifestyle. Right. That's sort of what the movie is showing. It's like once you reach this status and what happens when it gets taken away from you and what does it mean and how do you account for the loss? And so. And what did that what was that status in the first place? Right. It's ultimately fairly meager. Yeah. But at the time you think you're on top of the world. And this is a very common thing that is in the movies this year all throughout. It's like it's in one battle.

1:17:23It's in Mark Kerr in The Smashing Machine. You know, it's in a lot of these men who are like, I've reached a certain level of achievement in my professional life and in my personal life. And I now I'm like king of the world. I'm like master of my domain. And then one guy checks one spreadsheet on one laptop at the company you work at and you're out. Yeah. And then you have to figure out where to go. So it's very, the satire is very broad in the movie, but the construction of the story is so elaborate that I think it kind of overwhelms the simplicity of like corporation bad, like we know. Right.

1:17:57So he figures out after working this basically physical labor job in a giant department store that he's got to find his way back into the world of paper. He worked in a paper company. Right, which is also, you know, a perfect metaphor that starts from the very, very first scene. Yes. It's like something from the earth that is made tactile by human hands, but that is also going out of fashion in the way that we experience the world in this world of screens. That's all in the Westlake book. It's in the Costa Gavras movie as well. It's a paper company that he works for. And he realizes that there's only so many jobs because of all this consolidation.

1:18:33His company that laid him off was acquired by an American company. This globalization is affecting everybody. This is a movie that originally Park wanted to make in America, but he couldn't really get it going. And so he had to make it in his native Korea. And he decides he needs to start eliminating potential contenders for the very few open positions in the job, which is such a funny idea. But he's a regular middle class guy. He's not. He has a greenhouse and he has some, you know, utility with his hands. But like he doesn't really know what he's doing. And so he goes through these series of kills.

1:19:06Kind of like bumbling his way through every single murder. But he is successful. Like he does kind of pull it off. And so to your point about like, is this guy good? Is he bad? Is he successful? Is he not successful? It's like he does kind of do what needs to be done in this movie. And he does ultimately what he believes or what he set up for himself. And there is in almost every, like in every kill scene, there is like a moment where he's like, wait, what am I actually doing? And is this really, really going to happen? and the mania kind of catches on and he becomes more convinced of his own plan as it goes on.

1:19:45But I hadn't realized until my rewatch, there's like the still that's being used in the movie, which is of... The pot. Yeah, the pot being held up is actually, he chickens out. Yes. And he doesn't, that is not actually the first kill. That is sort of where the idea or part of the idea comes from. But he's holding up a plant that he then uses like to start a fake company to trap everyone. So it is, it's the beginning of the, like, the illusion as much as it is of this, like, I'm going to, like, kill people. Yeah, and it's a perfect little thing too, right? It's like the whole movie is all about a person who cares for trees and living things.

1:20:26There's a lot of time spent with him caring for a bonsai tree and showing the kind of nature in which you have to kind of, like, bend and contort the bonsai to take care of it and to allow it to grow, which is obviously a very latent metaphor for the way that we have to kind of like bend ourselves around the system so that we can survive inside of the system. And then the idea of a tree, paper is made from trees, being used as this inspiration point for this plan where he like sets up a job at a paper company with a catalog all from paper and trees to bring in these three men who are effectively like middle managers like he was at paper companies and are out of work.

1:21:02At least two of them are out of work. And he is, needs to get rid of these guys so that a job can open up so that he can fill in that spot. These other men are more qualified than he is too, which is a nice testimony like to the ends that this world drives us to where it's like I'm in desperate competition with this other loser guy who lives one town over because that's just the nature of, you know, an aggressive capitalist system. So you've got like all of that stuff, which is very fun and rich and often very funny. And you've also got this family drama about a guy who's like lost his sense of masculinity because he's lost his job and he feels like his wife who's beautiful.

1:21:40And she has to go to work to backfill for the lack of income in the home. And then she's working for a hot dentist as a dental hygienist and a dental assistant. Right. And he's worried about that she's cheating on him. And then that is also dovetailing with one of the potential murder victims who's also being cucked at this time. Yeah. And this is an elaborate movie. with a lot of twists and like a lot of wrapped ideas. And he's got a huge toothache throughout that he won't get, you know, fixed, which is, like I know is symbolic in Freudian psychology or whatever, but it also relates to the actual dentist.

1:22:16And then when it is finally quote unquote fixed, it's somewhat climactic and grotesque. He's got to do it himself. Yeah. Yes. That's the only way through is to just push through. So there's all kinds of fun stuff. And I probably will watch this movie again because it revealed a lot on my second watch. And then the other thing is while I'm watching it, it's hard to not be overwhelmed by the technique. Yeah. That he's using camera angles and camera placement and transitions and wipes. And he's using a lot of super impositions where he's like mapping one image onto another image. So you can see like the duality, the mask that people are wearing, the secret truth hiding beneath them.

1:22:58Like all these very traditional. You can see like what's around the corner, or what's around like the, you know, and that gives you juxtaposition of like this house that is an amazing house and, you know, so idyllic, but just like seems to be, when you look at it from another direction, it's like just like off a random highway and there's like an office park nearby and all sorts of, you know, like the. But this is the house that he grew up in. So he has also idealized it. Exactly. Even though it's like, it's a middle-class house off a highway, you know, like so many of us, like I grew up in, you know, like so many people grew up in, but you tend to think that these are these like totems of accomplishment.

1:23:34I think that a lot of those visual choices that he makes throughout the movie are really smart. He talked a lot about the selection of the house and why and how they built it. And, you know, it's a really interesting and unusual style. Again, like I thought I was asking a good question and he was like, I have a 30 minute answer to the question about a house. You know, he's like, he's really put a tremendous amount of thought. The house plays like a huge role and is also like designed in a way, not just to allow for like the certain setup of the shots and, you know where the kids are standing on the stairs as you hear something in the like you know the kitchen or the etc but also like where the tree is outside the window and the tree obviously has a lot is that a real red pine i'm gonna be hurt a white pine i'm sorry yes i'm gonna be heartbroken if it's not i don't know um and how the tree is also set but then there are some shots where i'm just like i can't believe you got the clouds to look like that it's true there is cgi in the movie and I think he uses CGI very artfully as a filmmaker there was a lot of CGI in Decision to Leave as well and another movie that I think is really rewarding on a rewatch much like Decision to Leave also a great movie that screens one of the things that's really funny is when he meets I think it's is it Xiang Chol the manager at the paper company and then he leaves and he realizes that he's also this kind of rival manager is also an influencer and he's constantly looking at his social media and the movie really effectively renders that sense of like

1:24:55jealousy, aspiration, the kind of like ugliness of performing for social media, but also that like, this is getting this guy somewhere and I don't know how to do this. Right. All unspoken. None of it is really communicated. We just watch him watching another guy. Mm-hmm. Just a good idea. Even the way that he's watching it, that particular scene, he's lying on the couch and holding the phone like directly above his head, which is not... Just like Bob Ferguson. Oh, that's right. Yeah. But it is, but you know, and allows like a lot of different setups. It's cinematically interesting, which, you know, most people would just have their phone up to their face.

1:25:33He does have that when he's in the bar. Yeah. When he's in the bar and he's kind of discovering him talking about like paper and trees and things like that. The other thing I really liked, it was a really funny Netflix joke in the movie where they're talking about like what they have to cut out of their budget. And in the background, you can hear the to-dum hit when the kids are firing it up. and there's like the movie is very much about what happens when you go from upper middle class to middle class to lower middle class and the panic that sets in which is a very I mean this is something that has been happening in America for the last 25 years we've kind of hollowed out a whole class of people who felt like they were in very stabilized industrialized spaces and whether those jobs have been moved overseas or have been moved into you know AI assisted robotics which is really what this film is ultimately focused on that this is a very relatable movie It's an absurd arch Hitchcockian thriller, but yeah, it's core idea is very up with people.

1:26:25And yet it also has a real Coen brothers. Like everybody's a moron energy. Right. Tasty stew. We didn't mention ballroom dancing, which also sets up a whole, I mean, there is a lot of the, the, the young daughter is a cellist and that's like the, the emotional, like very sad part about it. She's a very gifted cellist. neurodivergent it seems. She only speaks in repeating other people's words. And they have to give the dogs away, which like, I'm not a dog person, but that's really sad. Brutal. There's a cello plotline. There is a whole thing about stolen phones speaking of screens. That's right.

1:27:05And then just, you know, some really baroque and gross deaths or what we do with bodies after deaths. There's one kill in particular where he folds up a cadaver that is fucking crazy that is great that is just great imagery and obviously is a callback to the bonsai bending and you know you're meant to see and the recognition of his son through the greenhouse in the same way that he saw him through the greenhouse early in the film a lot of echoes throughout the movie a lot of repeating and recurring images Lee Byung-hun I want to talk about him quickly really interesting actor he's probably best known for these kind of like intense Korean thrillers really charismatic and handsome guy he's older than I thought he was He's 55.

1:27:46He's been around for a while. The last time he worked with Park was in Park's first film, Joint Security Area. So this is a reunion for them. And he has been in a bunch of American movies. And he's always been used in this really like po-faced, like exoticized, like Asian assassin kind of way. He was Storm Shadow in the G.I. Joe movies. He was in the Magnificent Seven remake, which is a big CR movie. But in this movie, he really plays this like physical comedy. like it's almost like a Jim Carrey part. Yes. He's twisting his face a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Contortion. Yeah. Yeah. I really, really like him.

1:28:22And then I mentioned earlier in the episode Sun Yijin who plays his wife. Right. Who is dynamite in this movie where like she's secretly the one running the family. Mm-hmm. She probably could have saved his job if he had like included her more in like the execution of his career. One of the funnier scenes in the movie is when he's like early on preparing his I'm getting axed speech. Right. to his new American boss and he's just like being cheered on by four other guys who are about to get fired in front of the logs. And very quickly the American when he gets one second with him is like there was no other choice and he gets in a car and leaves.

1:28:58But she is the simultaneously the most decent but the craftiest and when the moment arrives where she needs to like use her wiles to get the family to safety without her he would not be safe despite all this insane shit that he does. The Kills? I mean, my favorite is, I guess, the first. Because he doesn't really do it. He doesn't really do it, but really just because of the music absolutely blaring. So I did not know this. Park said that's one of the most popular songs in Korean music history. Oh, I had no idea. I think it's like playing My Heart Will Go On or something. Oh, I mean, that's even funnier.

1:29:41But I didn't, it's Italian? is it no it's not I thought it was a Korean song is it a Korean I mean Jack I don't know if you can help fact check that one for us I think I saw it in Italy so I was like oh are you doing and I think the Italian subtitles came on to explain what it was saying and I was like oh is this an Italian anyway I got it I think it's a Korean I think it's a Korean pop song that would make more sense anyway it was great I mean also seems like a banger to me I understand why it's my heart will go on in Korea maybe not the most perfect comp I've ever made okay whatever maybe it's dude looks like a lady you know in South Korea.

1:30:14I'm not actually sure. I like that one the best too. Although I do think that entire stretch where he goes to Sun Chol's house and they drink and the tooth. Yeah. And then the very gross scheme to make it seem as though he's choked on his own vomit. It's just like, it's pretty out there, man. Like you got to remember this is the guy who made Oldboy, you know? And I think he's, he started, he's become like world cinema master and making, you know, celebrated U.S. streaming services, films, or television shows. But he's a freak. Oh, yeah. He's a big time freak. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's into some really kinky, weird shit.

1:30:56And he is really good at rendering it on screen. Just confirming that song is Korean. Thank you. Okay. The ending. Yeah. I mean. So he gets away with it. for a variety of reasons. But one of the reasons is that the first victim's wife who is cucking him kind of sort of takes the fall in some ways. Her husband takes the fall for a series of events. And he gets the job. He gets the job. And when he gets to the job, he realizes he no longer really has any colleagues, that he's just managing an AI-operated station. Right. and his trusty wooden stick that allows him to check the I don't know the virility of the paper yeah I guess is no longer necessary because there are tools that do that and then is the final shot that you're referring to the in the in the forest with the lumber and the yeah well first it's him celebrating alone in the in the robot warehouse and he's the only person there and it's a wide shot and he's like almost dancing yes and then it cuts to the robot cutting cutting down trees while you get the credits yeah I I asked Park about that too and I was just like did you shoot that like where did that come from and he's like that's stock footage so like he ended his film on stock footage but it's the most chilling footage you've ever seen in your life it's so messed up it's like a giant machine that is controlled by robots cutting down trees in the natural world and that's just what that's where we're at yeah that's what's going on that's not good bad news I learned a lot more about logging this year than I thought that I would.

1:32:36Yeah, Train Dreams. Yeah. No Other Choice. What else? I mean, those two, but that's two more movies about logging than I thought I would experience and engage with. Did you end up seeing the Ken Kesey Sometimes a Great Notion movie that Paul Newman directed? I don't think so. Okay. That's also about logging. Okay. But I don't think that was on my watch list last year. Okay. In fact, I think you tried to be like, ooh, Train Dreams again, logging. And I don't know if Train Dreams is really about logging. And what happened in your top five movies of the year? That's right. But I'm just saying, I don't know if I would have led with the logging.

1:33:12Okay. Any other thoughts on Park? I mean, Dynamite movie. Really good. Really good. Let's go to my conversation with Park Chan-wook.

1:33:24Director Park Chan-wook and his interpreter Ji-Won Lee, very happy to have you both here to talk about this film. I wanted to start by hearing what led you to reading Donald Westlake's The Axe? What led you to that book in the first place?

1:34:04I'm a diehard fan of the film Point Blank starring Lee Marvin. And as soon as I heard that this writer who wrote the original novel for the film, although for Point Blank he used a different pen name, as soon as I heard that he had other works that he had written, I immediately looked for that novel. I know the film started out as a potential American adaptation and shifted to South Korea. So what specifically needed to change by shifting it to a different country? It was not. We work at the world the American cites on the main 19th janitor movement and I also brought in sitting on Krydron Hutchinson's Unitedite culture and Lincoln.

1:35:15I don't think there were any fundamental changes, but there are more detailed differences between the two versions. So for instance, the dance party scene was initially US history themed. This was not something that was in the novel. We decided to include this in the adaptation process. So there were people dressed up as US historical figures like Abraham Lincoln and Pocahontas, which was included in the film, was one of those characters initially. And we couldn't keep that same theme in the Korean version of the film. So we had to give that up, which I was very sad about. And what are your amenities, and the horizonte is, to tick androcpt the material.

1:36:14That was something we had to take out as we changed this into a Korean film. As for things that we added, it was the element of bonsai. And this was the extension of Mansoo's love and hobby for plants. So he's not just working in his garden, he's also stuck in his greenhouse working with his bonsai. The idea of the first one is just a production designer. and how do i hold nature in what it means and how do i do it. It was a lot to agree with my personal truth and just that thing in order for it We can still use to it as a female character in the last one's. Then in charge of the trapped and animation, for 6 months, I spearhead him and i prefer my mud a lot Besides the доллар to dry out of a desenölker.

1:37:15which She usually cuts over her lips. Well, not just letting her pencilient focus and crush the longitud. What I really enjoy stuff is that she used to have a good Ganglet for everyone who would like to see it либо if she had a good thing. But that is also possible in— getting through the Mall and Sasha社 in holy Street. At the start of the idea, was initially a suggestion from a production designer about using bonsai as a prop in the greenhouse. And I said I liked the idea, but thinking further upon it, I realized that we could use this more than just decor. We could use it cinematically. So I continued to develop this idea further.

1:37:58And it was featured in scenes where Bansu was overcome with jealousy. There's the moment when he breaks the branch of the bonsai or for this moment when he's taking care of his victim's body. And instead of using a chainsaw to take care of the body, he uses a wire and ties up the body like a bonsai. And of course, the bonsai was also featured in the scene where Man-su's son Si-won is having a nightmare. And he's also included in that little bonsai world as well. 그래서 점점 의미가 확장되면서 문제는 만수가 자기 가족을 어떻게 생각하는지에 대해서 그것을 드러낼 수 있는 그런 중요한 소품이 되었죠. So something that I love, that I have killed in the sense that you look at.

1:38:58Seicity-towers could have anler Karaeng house Manié In I think that was the one of the two who remember the 변-chae at thelaugh.

1:39:39And as the meaning and significance of the bonsai expanded, the bonsai became an important tool to show how Man-su thinks of his family as well. Just like in that nightmare scene, Man-su considers his family as this world that he designed and tends, just like how he tends to his bonsai. And of course, there's a beauty in the way that he pours his heart into tending his family and the bonsai. But if you look at it from a darker side, there's that artificial force that he's using to bend the branch of the bonsai to a shape of his liking. That's also very similar to how he treats his family as well.

1:40:16He talks in the film too about how he's built the home and built all of these particular aspects of the home and that would make it difficult for him to leave the home. I'm curious how did you find that house? Was it constructed? Did it already exist? And what were you looking for in it? The house is a very difficult time. for months, working from equipment to get your own planned life. I also participated in charge of location scout team in pre-production, all the locations that got removed to it, so we started working hard to prepare your location scout team for 알아내Б 백화 trustingца. So when you went over North Korea, you came to find your own house that pioneered explore.

1:41:06I immediately knew that finding that house was going to be a very arduous process. So even before we started pre-production, there was a location scouting team designated to find the right house. And they immediately started touring the entirety of South Korea to look for the right house. I was built in the same way in the 70s when I was built in Korea. And this structure of the house was something that was often seen back when I was younger in the early 70s. They used the same blueprint to build that same cookie cutter house all across the country. When the poor people were poor, they started to start growing up when they started growing up.

1:42:14And this was initiated by the real estate industry. So because Korea was a poorer country at the time, just as economic growth was just beginning to start, the real estate people tried to utilize the envy that people had towards this middle-class lifestyle. Yes that Koreans wanted to devote volunteers to their sustainable food with the existence of South Africa. Amazing for the starving Europe PAUL, работers implicated with the酒 that was still in Bravo house, Russ住宅.

1:42:55and this structure of a house became popular under this faux title, the French style house, and this was trying to utilize the Korean dream and envy to emulate the modern European lifestyle.

1:43:18당시, 당시에 세련된 논을 가진 사람들, 특히 건축가들에게는 좀 악몽 같은 일이었습니다. 너무나 한심한 양식이었죠. 그리고 그것을 똑같이 지어서 팔았으니까 수없이 많은 집들을 그런데 지금 와서는 다 없어졌고요. 일부 남아있는 것은 지금에 와서는 오히려 좀 재미있는 as you have seen from the movie, the structure of the house, the architecture style, isn't French at all. It was really just a marketing trick to sell this type of houses. And of course, that design was a nightmare to architects with refined tastes at the time. And it was all the more pathetic, especially because of the fact that they built that same design all across the country. So today, because that structure of the house is mostly gone, it's very hard to see that style of a house today.

1:44:20It actually feels more interesting to see a style like that, to see those fusion of different cultural architecture styles in one house.

1:44:51So after we found the right house, the production designer and I continued to redesign the exhibition. So something that we added with this was this wavy pattern, concrete exterior to the house inspired by the brutalist style. So that made it even more confusing in terms of the cultural architectural style. the film features what feels like a scene from my life where a father is prone on his back watching an influencer video and a young daughter is watching television when we talked for decision to leave you talked about the use of cell phones this film that features ai as a component a character in the film literally says a phone contains all of a person's life If you're consistently interested in showing the way that this technology invades our life, why is that important to you?

1:45:45I think that I'm thinking of making movies, but I'm thinking of making movies. I will get a lot of expertise I noticed that when I covered it, I'm going to be predecessor to character. I can say that I'm going to be instruments for you. But it is not aAlice company I used to m değild into矩ters One in the world, the average Korean world

1:46:44In my filmmaking style, I always strive for a more classical style or to put it more crudely an old-fashioned style. And I believe that is the method that best accurately portrays the story and the characters that I want to portray. So even though my style is old fashioned, in portraying the lives of the modern person, especially a modern Korean person, technology is inevitably tied to all of their lives. And I didn't want to turn away from portraying that accurately. You say you use an old fashioned style, but the film feels very maximalist. and where you put the camera, the sound design, the color is very explosive even for one of your films I was thinking of the shot through the boiler maker, the glasses Why did the movie demand all these gestures?

1:47:32I was making a decision to be done and it was a film that was just a film of course there was a sympathizer in the middle of the movie but it was a film that was just a film So I wanted to be a kind of style in the world to me. I always wanted to do those things. On the indust beverage, the sort of program -えー book talks about turning it for me. this movie is just like this.

1:48:45I want to let color try to explain that I have enough of my tread on the�� bikes of the scale, but I'm constantly enjoying the who magician ,� sugarummer. How specific and honey 마스�ics are I looking into a problema? 필름 룩에 집착을 하는데 그 필름 룩은 무엇일까? 막연하게 생각하고 있던 것을 그것이 뭐지? 나는 그냥 뭔가 요즘 디지털의 쨍한 느낌과는 다른 뭔가 약간 그레인이 많고 또 그 결과 좀 뿌옇고 색깔 채도도 조금 약간 낮고 그런 것을 막연히 떠올렸었는데 And I became a maneuver that I had to test it temporarily with the Angelaただ, と used to demonstrate in me a film, digital, and watch video. This video is more than a face, the contrast is more popular! was more intense. So, I tried that in the film's di process of lens.

1:50:09And since you mentioned color, to discuss color specifically, my goal for the film was to recreate the film look. And just from that statement, you know how old-fashioned my taste is. So, I've always wondered and had an obsession with that film look. In contrast to that saturated feeling of the digital footage that we see today, I've always believed that film has more grain, it's more foggy, and it's less saturated. And to really test that out, we actually set up the same lighting and used the same subject and filmed it with film ones and on digital ones. And then what I actually learned was that film has higher saturation, higher contrast, and felt more intense in general.

1:50:49So in the DI process and in the lens selection, that was a direction that I was striving for.

1:51:24To incong rifles no 맹 after thru. Just sure. But it doesn't mean that this thing gets mik fights of stars. So mentioning this theory of layers and backgrounds, what I think is that it was sunscreen that its skin and line again,

1:51:54And as for that beer glass moment that you mentioned, it's a very unique camera setup since the camera is rigged right on top of the glass. But it wasn't an attempt to create this cool, never seen before unique setup just for uniqueness sake. The audience knows the significance of the bombshot, the significance of Mansoot drinking in this moment. That's why I wanted each gulp, each moment to feel breathlessly nervous for the audience. I don't know what I feel like a modern camera. In the 70s, I can see the camera use more than the 70s. I feel like a modern camera setup for audiences. perhaps, but you can actually find more creative and bold setups in 70s film.

1:52:59I'm guessing that 70s film might feel prehistoric to modern audiences, but you can explore them and see it for yourself. The film becomes a series of one-on-one encounters with Man Su and his potential victims. And each time he confronts them, we see that he's not such a skilled assassin. I wanted to hear you talk a little bit about conceiving the oven mitt glove encounter with the blaring music because it's so striking and so funny. And I wanted to hear you explain how you came up with all of that. 처음에는 당연히 총성을 죽이는 소음기가 필요하다고 만수가 생각했을 텐데 만수는 그런 프로페셔널 살인자도 아니고 그런 장비가 있을 리가 없고 권총은 아버지의 유품이기 때문에 그냥 어떻게 이용할 수 있지만 다른 것을 어떻게 얻을 수가 없으니까요.

1:54:06그래서 나름대로 자기 주변을 둘러보다가 그냥 발견한 것이 아닐까. 그래서 만수는 나름대로 자기 조건 하에서는 생각을 많이 한 사람이다. 그런데 관객이 볼 때는 정말 굉장히 어설프다. I used an open. They used a Christmas time when I secretly used Santa Claus. The helmet will agree with your teeth and heart collapse. 그리고 권총과 자기 손이 분리되지 않게 너무 긴장하고 무서워서 총을 놓칠까 봐 또는 방아쇠를 제대로 못 당길까 봐 땀에 젖어서 손이 그런 여러 가지 생각을 해서 비닐랩으로 꽁꽁 감싸서 총과 자기를 하나로 만드는 자기 손을 그런 처절한 노력까지 하는 사람이다

1:55:27So the oven mitten moment came from Manzu's attempt to use it as a silencer to kill off the sound of the gunshot. And because he's not a professional assassin, he doesn't have the professional tools to do that. of course he got the gun from his father but he doesn't have anything else so i think that was the result of him looking around his house seeing what he has and discovering this idea so even though it might look foolish or funny to the audience we can tell that mansu has actually put in a lot of thought under the circumstances that he's in so he has the oven mitt and below the oven mitt he also has this glove from a santa claus costume that he probably bought to entertain his kids and below So beneath that, his hand is wrapped up in a plastic wrap.

1:56:15And he did that because he was scared that when he's too terrified or nervous in the moment, his hands might get too sweaty. So he wanted to make sure that he's not going to let go of the gun and that he'll be able to properly pull the trigger. So that's how much of a desperate preparation went into this moment for Manso. So even though Mansu is very desperate and well prepared for himself, it might come off as very funny to the audience when they're watching it from afar. And actually, if you watch the movie again, you might be able to find a family picture of Mansu dressed up as a Santa Claus.

1:56:50As someone who's been making films for more than 30 years, how much do you relate to the men in this story who have turned their life over to a vocation that doesn't always love them back?

1:57:22That is the very reason why I was able to emphasize it was the main character of the novel when I was reading it, despite the fact that he works in a completely different industry.

1:57:44And Shijo, one of the victims in the film actually says this line about how he considers making paper as a form of art.

1:58:24So this job isn't just to make a living. They consider this job as life itself. And Bummo also says this in a dialogue about how he's nothing without this job. So it's not just simple pride for what they do. They consider the job to equate to the sense of self itself. And I think a lot of filmmakers will be able to relate to this. 그래서 만수가 자기가 버리는 이런 범죄 행위 이런 도덕적인 전락이라고 하는 것에 대해서 가족을 위한 것이다 라고 합리화하고 그러므로 어쩔 수가 없다라고 생각하는 것이 I think it's a little wrong. I think it's a little wrong. So how Man Su's criminal acts and his moral downfalls, he justifies all of this as acts for his family, that he has no other choice.

1:59:25And I could see how this would come off as ingenuine. 왜냐하면 그 사람은 가족을 먹여 살릴 수 있는 다른 수단이 주어진다고 해도 자기가 이 재지업에서 재지업에 종사하면서 얻은 얻고 싶은 그런 성취감을

2:00:01And what I'm trying to say through that is Man Su is a man who would have murdered for this job even if he had other options or other jobs that were able to feed his family. The truth is perhaps he was really chasing for that sense of achievement that he felt from his paper-making job.

2:00:32You can even imagine if he had no wife and no kids, I could still see him as a man who would have done the exact same things. The most chilling image to me is the final sequence with the automated logging machinery. the movie seems to have a strong point of view about AI and I'm curious to hear your perspective on it and not just in terms of it taking over per se but whether it could be helpful or harmful in what specific ways in the future for filmmakers

2:01:04일단은 제가 가진 즉각적인 감정은 두려움입니다 my immediate emotional response to that would be fear I think there's a fear of how AI is going to dominate our lives. The psychological development is so fast that I think the fear stems from this thought of how it might change our lives even before we realize that it's changed it. In this book, there was no concept of this era, so I had to make a movie and make it a movie. Obviously, back when the novel was first written, there was no such concept back then. So any scenes involving AI was something that I added in in the adaptation process.

2:02:27But I think for this film, it was certainly helpful to have that AI technology development.

2:02:47Because I added a new element that was different from the original novel, which was that the wife and the son find out about what the main character has been doing.

2:03:05His work led all thisление to visit the kids Manso's soul, The soul of Manso's soul polydressed. That is said that it was given to His family, In the end Manso's tragic result, We had a divorce from their families.aton's death would have made a breakup.

2:03:33precisely what he does for his family that affects his soul. It destroys his soul. And when that is known by his family, Mansu becomes an outcast of the family and the family is shattered.

2:03:52So all of this becomes a large paradox. He did it for his family, but it's precisely those acts that destroyed it. That's true. AI is the same. andere is a certain孩子. Man была in human beings pueda and being tough We're

2:04:23a monster against the постав And it's just like that. It's very similar to Man Su's association with the AI technology as well. So the film portrays Man Su's journey of how he destroys his human competitors. And this was a very difficult process for him. It took a lot of big determination. And it was a very arduous journey that he had to survive through in order to make it through that journey and find a job that he's desperately wanted for himself. But at the end of that road, he realizes that there's a scarier competitor that he can never win.

2:05:27And he confidently enters this factory. And in this dark factory where the machines are working on their own, he turns on the lights as if to make the statement that the humans will be controlling the factory now. But he has become a miracle and has not been able to do that. But he has become a strange feeling. But shortly after his joyful cry, he is encapsulated by the strange feeling.

2:06:10And you can tell that in the moment where he taps on that large paper roll with his stick to sense the density of the paper roll.

2:06:46Because if you remember in the previous interview scene, the interviewers actually told Manso that at that age of using this manual method is over. And at the time, Manso emphatically agreed, but he still couldn't let go of that old habit. And that's why he brought that stick. He probably brought it from his home. There's actually a moment where we see the stick in the greenhouse as well. So he took the effort to bring that from his home and to necessarily use it in a factory that doesn't need it anymore. But at the same time, Manso's head is doing the same thing. And at the same time, we witness how this robot that's working above his head is doing the same job that he's doing.

2:07:26And Manzu looks very good at the same time.

2:07:48avoid these vehicles that are transporting the paper rolls.

2:08:03And most importantly, in the very last shot of the film, we witnessed how the lights are beginning to go off one by one behind Mansoo.

2:08:14It's the lights-off system being activated.

2:08:28AI, through the act of turning off the lights, is sending a message to Mansu that we don't need you anymore. And what's that's also about shooting? It was a Traffic scene the coin. We tried to participate independently with the После game scenes in production. creo queuy 선. and we can go without it in the Disуск criteria assembly. There are threwות as well as a factory. but I made it as a robot with VFX and made it as a robot.

2:09:33on their own.

2:10:04And what the scene is supposed to remind us of is a moment earlier in the film when Mansoo is practicing the speech that he wants to tell the American executives. And then he talks about how in America getting fired is like getting axed. But in Korea, we say off with your heads when we're getting fired. And then he combines those two phrases and says getting fired is like using an ax to cut off somebody's head. And this moment is actually a visualization of that speech. Director Park, we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what is the last great thing they have seen Have you seen any films recently that you really responded to?

2:10:40I haven't read it until the end but I read the book of Nabokov It's a book called Pale Fire It's so beautiful and complicated and humorous I think it's a great film.

2:11:29Remember, 4.30 p.m. Sunday night PT, 7.30 ET. Amanda is going live on Instagram, maybe with Yossi, to talk about the Golden Globes. I'll be there. At the Big Pick Pod. Yes. And if you want to, what do people want to know? What kind of candy did I buy to eat on Sunday night? We're going to eat actual food. Yeah. Why did we go to New York, maybe? Oh, that'll be exciting. Anything else? We could do some red carpet cues. It depends on whether we have, are they doing the red carpet? I mean, like coverage? I assume they will be. Who are they? CBS News? Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Well, Barney Weiss be on the red carpet.

2:12:11God, I don't want to deal with that. I forgot that it's on CBS. That's so weird. Because it was NBC for so long. It was. Yeah. We didn't even talk about Nikki Glaser, one of my goats. She was very good last year. She was funny last year. Yeah, so she'll be good again. We'll also talk about the results of the show immediately after the show and that episode will get posted and you'll listen to it and you'll love it. I promise. See you then.