Four Ways of Looking at an Action Movie: ‘The Accountant 2,’ ‘Havoc,’ ‘A Working Man,’ and ‘The Amateur’

25:39Great. Let's talk about Havoc next. Did you get to Havoc? I did. Shout out to you. You had a weekend out of town with your family. I did. And you sat down to experience the cinema of Gareth Evans. I did. Gareth Evans, of course, the director of the Raid films. I think he's the creator, certainly one of the filmmakers behind Gangs of London, a show that Chris loves, and one of the foremost action filmmakers of the 21st century. This movie has been in the works for a very long time. I think I have drafted it as an anticipation auction three times. At least twice as far back as 2022. Maybe even 2021.

26:14This is Tom Hardy's collaboration with Gareth Evans after Gangs of London. It's a straight up crime movie. It's a cops and villains movie. It's a political corruption movie. And it's ultimately just an excuse for Gareth Evans to go ham like three or four times in the movie. I feel like we have to start with Chris to get his take. Yeah, of course. Because this is an important film for him. Yeah, well, this starts out 45 minutes of which is essentially like chat GPT writing a Gangs of London episode. And it basically takes place in Sin City. Like there's no sense of... Is it not Chicago? I think it is.

26:50I was reading it as Chicago. I mean, Working Man is Chicago. Yeah. Shot there? No. I have no idea. Probably shot in Romania or something. I don't really have a lot to say about the opening half of this film other than if I die because someone throws a washing machine full of cocaine through my body you guys can laugh about it I think that that would be an extraordinary way to go out and that's the opening sequence of this film that sequence is a perfect metaphor for what it's like to watch a Gareth Evans action sequence it feels like you're inside of a washing machine full of cocaine that's a great idea yeah it's pretty boring until you get to the nightclub about an hour in and Gusefelstein starts playing.

27:35And I left my body and joined my ancestors. And we looked down on myself and we said, no one's ever had it better than this kid right now. I had my fucking big headphones on in the dark in my house. And I watched the nightclub scene literally three times back to back. I just kept rewinding it. Which is like a full length movie, by the way. because that scene is very long. It's very extended. They don't leave anything out. There's all kinds of butchered knives going on there. Machetes, yeah. That scene is cracked. It is so good. It is so entertaining. I thought this movie was legitimately subpar except for 28 minutes.

28:1728 minutes of it, I was ecstatic. So thrilled. And I think that's justification for its existence. The nightclub scene is the best one. What a summer for Gecephelstein. the electronic music artist whose music was also featured in that A24 Thunderbolts trailer. That's right. And now here, not one, not two, not three, but four songs during the duration of that nightclub sequence in this movie. Bad DJ. He's just playing his Apple Steve Bix. Yeah, but... He's distracted? He might be distracted. Good point. Like, I might just, you know, the track listing might just keep going. Holy shit, did that guy just get hit with a machete?

28:51Are you sure that he's actually, like, at one point? That's one of the ideas I like in the sequence is that, for the most part, the people on the floor of the club have no idea that this all-out thrall is happening. Until that guy gets thrown off the balcony and breaks in his house. I mean, any thoughts about this movie that have not been shared by Chris? Even watching this scene, I was like, okay, so this is a Chris Ryan movie, you know, which I knew Tom Hardy action film on Netflix. I was like, okay, I'm watching this with my Chris goggles on. And then that was confirmed and I was happy for you.

29:23A couple other highlights I thought you might enjoy. Forrest Whitaker just doing Eric Adams? Is that what that was? I think so. Pretty much. Does Eric Adams have like a flunky, loser-y son? I'm pretty sure he does allegedly. And then also like, I mean, it just, I felt like his whole delivery was very Eric Adams coded. What do you think Oliphant? Well, without, I understood what would be his character's arc would be within the first two minutes of the film. He's giving it away pretty quick. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's not very subtle anything that's going on in the first 30 minutes as you guys mentioned.

30:02I'm always happy to see him. I continue to think he's incredibly handsome. Yes. Okay. So. I thought maybe. Is he in his 50s? I was wondering how many of those stunts he did. Like Hardy is getting his ass kicked. Hardy's in it. No, I will say in the nightclub scene, you know, like. He's 56 years old, Oliphant. With it. What an achievement, you know, of people just jamming and stuff into each other in a club for like 30 minutes. But I did notice, I was watching everything, but you know, at some point, like the limbs going places kind of your eyes starts to glaze over. And then like, his head just does peek around a corner in a way that's like, oh, you weren't there before.

30:44So, but that's okay. Yeah. The other big set piece in this movie is a fight in a house that resembles a little bit of a Gangs of London famous set piece were basically, first of all, I gotta say, I don't think I've ever seen a bad movie with triads involved. I had a note about this as well. And the two triad ladies in this movie are some bad chicks. I was pretty into them. Yeah. They both get knocked out in pretty brutal fashion. Mother is, did you feel attracted to her? No, but I was definitely emotionally engaged with her on a deep level. What was the other gal's name? Well, that was played by a UFC fighter, Michelle Watterson Gomez.

31:29Okay. And she and Tom Hardy have a fight that is so intense the entire house falls down. Yeah. And then, spoiler, he shoots her with a fucking whaling harpoon.

31:41It's just a great idea. Why does he have a fucking harpoon? I know he's fishing. I guess they're like in a shack where you go fishing. But who has a harpoon on like flake fishing? Is that a fairly small harpoon? I laughed really hard at that scene. The harpoon, did it go through her neck or through her head? And then she tries to like walk down it a little bit. It's like sliding down. We need more things like this at the movies. We need people to get harpooned on camera. This is great stuff. And then they just wild bunch it up at the end. It's great. Yeah, crazy big shootout. This is a pretty fun movie.

32:13It's a time killer. I was wondering two things about this. One, I think we do have to have a Tom Hardy conversation. Ten years ago, I thought, not only one of the most exciting actors in Hollywood, many people thought he could be a future James Bond, but I thought he had a lot of variance in the kinds of voices and characters he was playing. Now he only plays one guy, which is anonymous, metropolis, American, angry dude. Like, in Venom. I know your answer is going to be, have you watched Mobland at all? I have not. My in-laws were really big on Mobland this weekend. Very enjoyable series, for one thing.

32:47real like just like B kind of like crime show he's delightful and it's the closest he's been to Inception Tom Hardy he was charming you're saying he's charming and you know he's just trying to keep all the warring factions from like annihilating each other it's essentially like a very cartoonish Michael Clayton in the British underworld and he's getting to play a guy in London I think he should retire this era the like hyper grizzled muttering barely enunciating trying to be a cop from Nowhere Town, USA. I think we got it. He's done it. I'm ready for his 50s. Chris will let him know. Please call him.

33:30Send a stork to Taboo Island. I think he's done with it too. First of all, this was filmed in 2020 or whenever they started filming this movie. He's talked about how he's like, I want to get back down to planet Earth a little bit. Number one on Netflix though. Seems like this movie is working. That's only just for my plays. This is the kind of thing that really works on Netflix. This is a defining genre of Netflix when you think about carry-on, extraction, triple frontier, rebel ridge, the old guard. The grim, dark action movie is sort of their brand alongside teen coming-of-age movies and hallmark-ish rom-com slash holiday movies.

34:12Those are the movies that they're best known for at this point. Is there anything I'm forgetting? well, awards plays that don't pay off. Yes. Yeah. Yes, that is. But this is, I think, of all the categories you named, this is the one we're most at peace with. Yeah. Like, if Netflix wants to keep making these types of movies with these budgets and these level of movie stars, like, they have a competency at them. They don't look, they don't make us angry, and they bring Chris a large amount of joy. So, like, this is okay. If this is what they want to do, okay. Yeah, I'm with you. Well said. Any closing thoughts on Havoc?

34:49I just am curious why it took so long. Like, what was the thing that they had to reshoot in here? I would imagine that the transition from the old film team leadership to the new one was a factor. Okay. Got some notes. Could have been. But it seems like it's working for them. Gareth Evans, can we get him a better script? He wrote this. So, obviously, he trusts himself as a writer. I've never like I've never like I could do this you know I never like think to myself I go just let me get a pass on this except when he fired that harpoon gun through the triad on his neck I just mean like I don't have the hubris to think that I could do what he does at all even as a writer but I would love to have just taken like a quick run past some of the dialogue yeah editor Chris get your notes on yeah just have like this guy say this you know or just get like a like a average crime novel to adapt, you know, and just take that and then you do the action sequences.

35:47Yeah. I'm not trying to limit him. I wrote in the notes that David Koepp is writing the new Jurassic Park movie, which I think is a reason to be excited for the new Jurassic Park movie. And I like, let's just get... Jurassic World Rebirth? Is that what you're talking about? Jurassic World Rebirth. Yeah. New film coming July 2nd from Universal. Thank you. I think it'd be great if he got someone like a David Koepp, just like a locked and loaded genre... for hire movie maker so that then he could do his Gareth Evans shit around a movie like that. Would you have watched Gareth Evans' Black Bag? Same script, same actors.

36:22But the nightclub scene. So it's like in the dinner scene just becomes like everyone smashing each other. Yeah, sure. Let's talk about a working man. Okay. Did you watch this one? Yeah, I've watched every movie on the document. This is a lot of men at work. I did actually watch this one while doing prep for last week's big picture. So you lost some of the nuance might be. So I'm excited to have Chris Ryan, our political correspondent here to explain it to me. I had high hopes for this one. This is the new from David Ayer, a director that Chris and I have a lot of time for. He was most recently seen utilizing Jason Statham's unique talents in The Beekeeper.

37:06Another surprise success from 2024 that we all liked. that is a batshit crazy movie about the deep state paranoia, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden's kids, Donald Trump, and bees. I was hoping that it would have some of the same manic energy. This is more of a classical Jason Statham kind of a movie. It's based on a novel called Levin's Trade by Chuck Dixon. The screenplay is co-written by Ayer and Sylvester Stallone. Yeah. Which I think tells us maybe a little bit about the energy of the film that is also about human traffickers. It's about a foreman on a construction site whose boss's daughter is abducted by human traffickers.

37:47The Russian mob. The Russian mob. Or a faction of the Russian mob. And he's a former British special ops soldier who has moved to Chicago. As they do. And to work on construction sites. And be with his family, presumably. Yes. And we spend a lot of time with them. We really learn about them. But everyone else is his family, you know? And they keep bringing him food. Michael Peña, for example. I mean, the best films are about found families. Let me ask you this. If Bill's kids were abducted, would you go on a one-man spree to save them? Because that's the plot of this movie. Yeah. That is truly the plot of this movie.

38:29I just want to point it out. It's kind of weird. It's like, could Jason Statham just let the FBI do their jobs? I was just like imagining Chris just like out in that room getting the call and being like, okay, what am I going to do? We should make this movie. And imagine what the human traffickers would think when you rolled up, layered out, dripped out, and you were just like, you've never heard of me. You'll never see me again. I'm 5 '7". What is your first move when you get that call? Have my lawyers and agents look at the deal and see if we've got any notes. have my team interrogated a little bit, find out whether I have IP rights to it, you know?

39:11No, I think this is a goofball movie, man. I mean, there's part of it that is like played incredibly straight and soberly and is about like this guy who's grieving the suicide of his wife and is trying to reconnect with his kid and clearly sees this girl, Jenny, as like a surrogate and is doing all this stuff. And then there's also like a little bit of like Mad Max Fury Road going on underneath of it where there's sub gangs of the Russian mob who all dress like they're in Road Warrior and sell meth in Juliet. And then they all show up at a house and fight. Yeah, who are those guys? What's that?

39:46Is that a real scene? Is that a scene that we can be a part of? Speaking of ladies in these action movies that caught my eye, Artemis, the one with the face tat. What's up with her? Wow. Yeah. It sounds like you got really jazzed up this weekend. Yeah, you're discovering my wife's out of town. Did you watch all four of these movies this weekend? More or less, yeah. Did you see The Amateur, too? I'd see The Amateur a while ago. Okay, yeah. Any thoughts? Like, what did you think of this? You were half paying attention. I was half paying attention. And once I realized, like, okay, this is not The Beekeeper, there is not anything, like, bizarre and entertaining about what it's trying to sandwich in in terms of The Beekeeper's strange political valence or just like Jeremy Irons or like Minnie Driver calling for one scene.

40:32Right. You know, scene of being like, I need my paycheck. This is a basic good guy, you know, good guy revenge type movie. I was back in my document. Yeah, it's a classic Statham vehicle. I mean, he's made a lot of movies like this over the last 15 years. He's one of the most reliable movie stars. And he is really the working man's Tom Cruise. I mean, he doesn't really make streaming movies. He makes movies for movie theaters for a very specific audience. He basically makes one a year. Some of them are good. Some of them are bad. Some of them are so strange that they're really compelling. He obviously also has a part in big franchises like the Fast movies.

41:08Can we give the Meanie Driver and Beekeeper Award to David Harbour in A Working Man playing a blind ex-seal? So that was a real, I knew he was in this. But I, you know, I had phased out. And then I looked up and it was like a profile shot with like a giant beard. And it took me a while to be like, wait a second. That's David Harbour. We have a date with David Harbour tonight. We sure do. We sure do. Also, have you guys been following David Harbour's press tour? No. How's it going? Well, I don't know if you have kept up with his personal life. He was with Lily Allen, but they split up. I know that.

41:40And now he may or may not be dating someone younger than Lily Allen, and then he's being asked about it. How's he taking that? How young are we talking here? I mean, you know, younger. Okay. But if you told me Lily Allen was 37, I wouldn't be stunned. Yeah, but I'm at more like 20s. So she's like 34. Right, okay. I was trying to be respectful. Lily Allen's not psyched about this. He's dating a 19-year-old. He and Bill Belichick are sharing a girlfriend. And Lily Allen, who has a podcast, is not excited about it. Oh, she's speaking on it publicly? She's taking little subs at him. I can't believe you're not a part of it.

42:19Yeah, this is a thing. I love Lily Allen. I'm not exactly in the zone of social media that I don't have access to. I don't pursue it, and so it doesn't come to me. Lily Allen also apologized to Katy Perry for being mean to her about Blue Origin. I'm going the other way on that one. Shame them. Agree. Okay. Wait, there was one more thing I wanted to talk about. David Harbour. There's a couple of things. I mean, one, this is post-Sound of Freedom Corps. That's the thing about the human trafficking thing, is that that movie was a huge sensation. We thought, what would be the ripple effect of this?

42:47We talked about Angel Studios. Could you have a different kind of storytelling? telling the truth is it was always there. You know, Lionsgate was always making movies like this. And this is a movie that is pitched to a very specific audience. It just doesn't have that harebrained craziness that Beekeeper has that kind of propulsively kept you interested in where the story was going because it was so strange. It's just very straightforward. He's going to kill these guys and then he's going to win. This movie was dying for a twist, which would essentially be like, spoilers for Man on Fire, essentially be the Mark Anthony twist of Man on Fire.

43:16Like it's really dying for like another step. And you get like midway through and you're like, oh, it's just like he's going to single-handedly disassemble the Russian mob. Yes. Okay. And that would be the thing I think also that would get people to say, you know what you got to see is a working man. That movie's crazy. But it doesn't really have that. Like it's solid. It's doing what it wants to do, but it's not great. What's up with these guys though? Human trafficking. I mean, like I guess, you know, it goes all the way back to like the searchers or whatever. It's like a child kidnapped is like a rate.

43:44It goes back to the slave trade, Chris. Sure. You know, ancient Rome. No, I know. I understand like Like the origins of that, I meant in cinema.

43:54As soon as you put this in, I was like, oh, great. Here comes the jam up. Yeah. I would say this idea as a central preoccupation of a certain kind of man who's trying to present his idea of like his vision of family and patriotism is just really weird. It's like you can be when you're so obsessed with something. It's suspicious to me. Yes. And the fact that it has infected mainstream action movies. It's a big plot line on Lioness in the second season. Right. You know, it's suspect. Yeah. As Chucky once said. Of course. You said it just like him? And I was like, oh my God, is he going to... This is an Affleck-coded pod today.

44:36Any other thoughts on The Working Man? Pretty boring. Yeah, I thought it was pretty boring too. The Amateur. this is a movie that I triggered a feeling that I shared on the pod it's not a bad movie directed by James Hawes it's based on a novel written some 35 years ago you've read it my boy Robert Littell yeah oh interesting really good espionage writer wrote a book called The Company which is kind of like an epic of the CIA that was adapted into a TNT miniseries with Alfred Molina and Chris O'Dowd no Chris O'Donnell my bad and then has written a bunch of like like slimmer novels that are actually really cool and have like some Paul Oster, Don DeLolo stuff going on, including, I think amateur, which I do have, but don't remember reading, but is much different than what the film winds up being.

45:27Oh, interesting. That's good to know. So, you know, in brief, the plot is Rami Malek plays a brilliant, but introverted CIA operative, like a tech ops guy who works out of a basement office. His wife goes to London for a work trip. She's played by Rachel Brosnahan, and she is killed in a terrorist act in London. And he is completely destroyed by this and goes on a quest to find the actual terrorist who killed him against the wishes of the CIA and, frankly, everybody else involved in this story and kind of goes on a strategic killing spree throughout Europe. This has one of the best casts of the year.

46:03Features not just Malik and Brosnahan, but Katrina Balfe, Michael Stuhlbarg, Holt McCallany, Julian Nicholson, and Lawrence fucking Fishburne. And it's one of those movies that's like 68 % there. And the final 32 % is the most important percent. So it's not bad. But it's not good. And the reason it triggered the feeling for me was I was like, God, how do we get to the final 32 %? I'm looking for the final 32%. Why am I seeing this on a Monday night? So what did you think? We haven't talked about it yet. Well, instead of seeing it on a Monday night, I saw it on a Friday at noon. Which is probably optimal.

46:42It's absolutely optimal. That's the best way to see it. And this is also in the Amanda wheelhouse, right? Like tinges of international espionage, famous actors. And so I would maybe give it like 72%. I would watch one of these every month if they would make them. I had a perfectly nice time. There is something missing. Shall we name it? We have to say. It's an actor at the center of the movie. This movie stars Rami Malek. I'm sorry. That does not connect for me. I think there's, certainly I think Rami Malek can be an effective actor. And an effective hacker. And an effective hacker. And it does feel like he was cast out of his role in Mr.

47:23Robot, which is where he became famous, a role he was born to play. This movie needs a more handsome and dynamic person at the center of it. Like it needs like a lead to be the lead. And Rami Malek is like kind of a number two for a movie like this. He's the guy who helps. The movie is obviously very purposefully trying to subvert your expectations. They're like, oh, this meek little guy would come along and blow up this pool and kill these Russian bad guys. I totally get the idea of the movie. But in my head, I was like, if you just put Andrew Garfield in this role and put him in some glasses, it's probably just a better movie.

47:57And I felt that the whole time I was watching it. I was like, I'm not really with Malek at all. I know he's mad that his wife was killed. It's completely understandable. Anybody would be completely destroyed by this, but I just couldn't get emotionally invested in the story. I thought while I was watching this that it was a really good concept for the movie would be like, what if Q was James Bond? And then I got really distracted being like, what if Ben Whishaw? But he got to be Q, but he was like... Ben Whishaw is even better than Andrew Garfield. If it was Ben Whishaw, that would have been great.

48:25Yeah. I mean, it's a little bit of like, it's what Ben Affleck is doing in The Accountant. and Countdown 2, but weirder. But you do need someone who is the type and then is like playing against type, but then can become the type in the center of the film. You need a movie star. We are probably, do you think at the very end of or still in the throes of WIC adaptation variations like nobody, love hurts, you know, like these like, you thought he was just a normal guy, but he's actually a killer. You know, I guess Wick's not like that, but like that style of fighting applied to almost everything. Yeah, I think this is pulling from a different aspect of the Wick storytelling.

49:15Like this is a very grim, straightforward, serious spy movie that happens to have these remarkable set piece kills. Like it actually is, to your point, like a little closer to Bond where it's like episodic and you're kind of waiting for him to get to the next kill, the next set piece. It doesn't have any of that attempt at action humor that Love Hurts or Nobody or all of these movies where you're trying to be like, it does have, I guess, the surprise of what if Kiwi Kwan or Bob Wood Kirk punched a guy in the neck. Right. But this has none of the levity of those movies. It has none of the mythology or none of the like grandeur of the Wick movies.

49:50The Accountant, which I dubbed John Bick in the document here. I hope all of you caught that. That's some of my best headline work that I no longer get to use publicly. Wow. I was great once at that very specific thing. The accountant, I think, kind of is like self-knowing. You know, it might not be. It's like self-aware. And this movie is not that self-aware. You know, it's played much more seriously. So, again, like, this is not a bad film. It's actually very well made by Hawes. I think a couple of the set pieces are very exciting. They were all given away in the trailer. which is becoming a recurring discussion point here but the pool sequence is really cool and the design of that is a great idea and it looks good in the execution but we saw it and we saw it I think because the studio was nervous that people wouldn't go see it if they didn't have a big set piece like that so I think Would you go in a pool like that even before having seen this movie?

50:45Yeah I'm pretty I'm pretty open to lots of different pool experiences Even like floating up I don't really like indoor pools but other than that 30 feet I don't know that would be a tough way to go Yeah You wouldn't swim in that pool? No, the height kind of counteracts the joy of being in a pool, which I do love. What do you think about infinity pools? On ground? You know? What do you mean on ground? As opposed to suspended between two large towers? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm not naturally occurring. That's actually what two towers is about. It's just Frodo wants to go swimming in a pool. Let's go see it!

51:24No, I have seen it, I think. Is that the first one? No. Second one? Yes. I've seen the second one and the third one. Second one's with the... But not the first one. The trees. I can't really remember. You went to go see the second one having not seen the first one? And the third one. I saw them back to back because in college they did like a thing. Were you blackout drunk by the end of the third one? Because you weren't allowed to have booze in these. They were serious film screenings. I don't know why I went, but I did. I saw both of them. Okay. Did you have a companion with you or no? Yes, but I can't remember who it was.

51:54It wasn't a boy. It wasn't Elijah Wood. It wasn't, okay, never mind. It wasn't a date. A date. I wasn't like, yeah, on the behest of, you know. Have you seen Fellowship of the Ring? I have. Yeah. I guess I've seen it once, right? Excellent movie. The Hobbits. I'm a huge fan. They set off, right? Yeah, they set off on a quest to throw the ring. To get the ring. The mysterious guy named Strider. Okay. Aragorn? Yeah, they called himself Strider in the beginning. Why? Because he's trying to obscure his royal lineage. O.J. Simpson? Football player? Aragorn? The Lost King?

52:36Okay. Infinity pools? I'm open. What about you? Infinity pool? I'm always kind of curious about Airbnbs that market a pool close to a natural body of water as a selling point. To me, it seems a little bit redundant. I know the pools are a cleaner experience usually, but like, I don't want to go in a pool next to the ocean. I agree with you. Going to throw a couple of things though for you. You and I have been there on the surf reports, you know, and if it's a choppy day, you can't get in. There's nothing worse than being at the beach and not being able to get in the water. So, and then also smaller kids, sometimes the, you know, you can't really take a baby in the ocean, but in the way that you can take a small kid in a pool.

53:21uh the author william finnegan the author was raised by waves i know on will rogers yeah it's a wonderful book um what are these four movies tell us about where action stands right now i was wondering if there was going to be any conclusion to this podcast i'm i'm i'm curious for your points of view you know action is not a genre that you shy away from you see all the action movies with us so it's not you know it's not like horror where you're like i don't know like you watch all these movies is there something good happening bad happening is it just April I think it's a little bit April these were all with the exception of the amateur the first three were were pretty were gnarlier and more gun focused than I tend to like which is that's just a preference thing that's obviously like a huge part of the genre and a huge part of even action movies I really like, like the John Wick movies.

54:22But they're all pretty grody and pretty, let's just shove things in people's faces. There is a lot of choreography involved in all of this, but I wouldn't call them balletic, you know? No. That's okay. There are lots of different ways to kill a guy. Yeah, there is a little bit in Havoc. I think Havoc has that crazy Busby Berkeley energy that I think Gareth Evans actually would like to make a musical and is just like, I can't. So I just have these people fly through each other. I don't know. I mean, I think that The Accountant 2's success is honestly quite charming because it is an original story and it really, really just reminds me of 80s action movies in a big time way, even down to abrupt tonal shifts.

55:10They kill 80 dudes and then Jon Bernthal adopts a cat. You know, it's like, it's really the entire spectrum of the human experience happens. It has literally one thing that I neglected to mention. Very similar to those Schwarzenegger and Stallone action films in the 80s where there are 100 men facing two men and all 100 men have guns. And for whatever reason, they will not pick up their guns and shoot the two guys who are attempting to take them out. Bernthal's like time for hand to hand combat. They're all like, yes, an honest fight.

55:44it's just it's great that we still have that at the movies doesn't Bernthal also get shot like nine times and is directly in the chest yeah not ideal I don't know if I can draw any massive conclusions from these four films together I think obviously we talked about some of the political undercurrents of three of them and I think even amateur has some like you know suppressed masculine urges and like you know like not being part of the physical world you know kind of stuff that I think is an affliction. I think that's a probing insight. I think there's definitely something to that. It also has the basic, like there are parts of the CIA that are, you know.

56:24Working against our better interests. Exactly. Yeah, I mean it has. Men would rather avenge their dead wife rather than go to therapy. No, I meant old McElhaney. Would rather copy and paste suicide bomber on a drone attack than like face consequences. That's true. So there you go. There's an incisive. But Julianne Nicholson, who's the head of the CIA, because in this world, women can't have it all, knows what's up. That's right. So she's got her own guy to go check in on the situation. Him mansplaining how black ops work in the diner scene, that's a great moment. Do you know what I will say that I noticed about all four of these movies is, no, not really about Havoc, but the other three is how annoying smartphones have become with the storytelling of a lot of this stuff where they're just like, download the security footage to my phone and let me stream it now.

57:11And you're just like, this is stupid. This is like 20 minutes of the movie should be you getting the footage or figuring out who this is. And instead, like these kids can hack into any computer in the world. And then like now you're you're all good. You know who it is. This should be a big mystery. It takes them a little while. That was one of the more riveting sequences. You know, I'd like to know if they're actually like, what are they actually doing? Because they're doing a lot of like. I prefer Cronenberg's vision of what we can do with smartphones, which is we can have a 24 hour surveillance camera on our dead spouses.

57:43decomposing corpse and look at it anytime we miss them. That's just, he is the only one who truly understands technology in this world. I'm not sure if I have some big takeaway. I mean, we're now entering a time of the year where the action movies are really big. We're about to see Thunderbolts. We're about to see Mission Impossible. You know, we're about to see F1 as a kind of action movie. Jurassic is kind of action movie. Jurassic is an action movie for sure. These are like tentpole films. These four films are trying to come by their audiences in a slightly different way. They're, if not original stories, they're more or less original based on novels they're star oriented they need you need to be like I like action movies to go see this movie not I like franchises or I like this character and it's all a little I don't know it's all a little dad action to your earlier point it is you're waiting for ballerina I mean I'll see it you want a lady in the center of the story you think it's women's time to be dancers and assassins I like it when they can dance and fight do you think my daughter would like ballerina No, I don't.

58:44But I think she's going to try to see it many times. What if I tell her, sweetheart, I'm going to see Ballerina tonight? Can she read yet? Can she read yet? She's three and a half. I don't know. She's very smart. Way smarter than my sons. And she also, like, that's fine. That's just elementally how it works. She knows the alphabet. And I would think that she could. Don't you think Knox intuitively understands all the makes and models of the American Air Force? I mean, he does. Also, he's been, like, putting in the work. You know? He's been at the museum. He's been running the tape. I wonder if she can recognize the word ballerina at this point.

59:18That's a really good question. If she sees the commercial, we're in a lot of trouble. She will get very invested in the action filmmaking styles of Chad Stahelski. I think we did watch a Godzilla movie yesterday. We watched King Ghidorah, the three-headed monster, and it's Japanese subtitles. And she did say, what are the words on the screen? Because obviously you can't understand the Japanese characters. So I explained it to her and I would read them along. sometimes but not all the time because there's a lot of strange human plot aspect of Godzilla movies but that like will lead to a conversation about languages and different ways of communicating Have you thought about giving her immersive Japanese lessons?

59:53Would you like to be the one to give them? No but like aren't their brains like sponges at this point? Yeah Do you think I should take her out of school? No it's much easier when you're younger to learn the language. I didn't have that. So this is a part So Camp Chris, there's going to be soccer drills for three hours a day. Catalonian soccer practice and then immersive conversational Japanese. And then after dinner time, we'll be screening havoc every night. But first, they have to make a meal according to his Instagram reels. Oh, yeah. He's going to eat in a day. Yeah. You can get ready video with all of them every morning.

1:00:33That would be sweet. I don't know if I have any other conclusions. I do have a bit of news to share with you guys, which is that it was just announced that a Miami Vice remake directed by Joseph Kaczynski is going into development right now. Well, Chris. This is big for you, Chris. What does this mean? How do you feel? We'll see. Okay. I doubt that Michael Mann has any involvement. Obviously, Don Johnson on the Marc Maron WTF suggested that Miami Vice was not so much Michael Mann's baby as much as it has been proclaimed. Those were strong words he had. Very strong words. And I would argue that the Miami Vice film answers all the questions I had about Michael Mann's relationship to the material.

1:01:17It's a superior product, an incredible movie. What if I told you Dan Gilroy was writing the script? I think it has the potential to be incredible. you know but wow you this is a muted response from you I just I'm in a weird spot with it Kaczynski also I'm glad to hear that Dan Gilroy is writing that script because I think Kaczynski not unlike Gareth Evans needs a good screenwriter he does what if the announcement said it was Christopher McQuarrie writing the script I think that would be great I think that would be great I mean they're not Jamie Foxx and Colin Farrell are not reprising their roles I take it That's not the impression I'm getting.

1:01:55It's going to be a reboot. What if it's Brad Pitt and Damson Idris from F1? Let's see if F1, if they have the charisma. Where's your head at with F1? I think I'm pretty excited. I'm definitely like, you guys have shown me enough footage. I will watch this film. I want to see it in IMAX. But you're waiting. You're not getting any more content. I'm with you. I think I'm sold. I'm at the point now with Mission Impossible where they like debuted some new poster or something. And I'm like hiding my eyes, you know, like I instinctively just jumped from the computer because I was like, don't spoil anything for me until I actually get to see this film.

1:02:34I know, yeah. Will you watch all the Mission Impossible films leading up to this to get the canon locked down? I haven't decided yet. I am, I already bought my tickets for the May, the Thursday fan event. I bought two in case you'd like to join me. Oh, wow. I also, not, I don't want to disinclude you, but if you'd like to join us, please buy one after this.

1:03:00I also, we got our invite for the press screening. Yeah, I was stupid. Mission Impossible is a religion to me, especially Macquarie Cruise, Mission Impossible. But there's something about like not being overexposed going into the new one. Like I've seen these movies a lot. I've seen Dead Reckoning three times. Like, I don't know that I even need to rewatch that one to go into this. I also feel like the way that they're pitching the film is, I have a feeling not going to be as important in the actual watching the film. Like, they're pitching the movie as like, Ethan Hunt, this is your life. And you're like, alright, like, Rabbit's Foot, this, that, Kremlin, you know, I got it.

1:03:38It's up here. But most people don't have the powerful mind that you have. No, but they made those movies up as they went along. So now to look back and be like these essential moments in the history of this like honestly improvised action blockbuster series. You prefer how the MCU does it, you know, where it's just established storyline told over 10 years. And you cannot deviate. And do not miss anything. You have to see every episode of Secret Invasion. Otherwise, you're just lost. I'm really excited for hanging out with you post-credits on Thunderbolts tonight. Oh, you're coming tonight. Oh, yeah.

1:04:10Oh, good. I never know. I've been told sit through the credits. at Thunderbolts. Just a heads up. Did you see Tom Cruise did go to see Sinners and then hopefully posted sit through the credits. Tom! Where were you? If only you had waited and you would have known the truth was told and Tom spake it. Yeah, I mean, of course he loved that movie performatively as he does. He loves the movie. Is it virtue signaling? No, I just mean he performed that he liked it to us in the public via the social media. I'd like to see Tom Cruise get behind a real stinker. you know interesting like Tom Cruise being like I'm home watching Havoc on my phone it would be more interesting if it was like Minecraft movie is my favorite movie of the year you know like a movie would that be interesting it would be interesting yeah I need to see some glimmer of personality from Tom this time around Thunderbolts kind of sucked

1:05:10I'm not sure if that's in play so you're feeling good about the movie Yeah. But I also, I'm always right there. I'm always right even keel with film. The rehearsal? What about it? You watched episode two? I have not watched episode two yet. Jack was explaining it to me before. I'm aware of the discourse around it. Yeah. I was not until Jack Sanders gave me a recap. I'm not going to spoil it for anybody who hasn't seen it. Yeah. It's the funniest thing I've seen since the last time Nathan Fielder was on TV. Okay. He has a, he's tapped into my cortex. and Eileen and I were laughing very, very hard at the final 10 minutes of the episode last night.

1:05:49That's a TV show. Yeah. Which is not technically what we do here, but Nathan Fielder at work on his debut feature film for A24. Oh, wow. Not sure if you guys knew that. Did you, are we just throwing around news headlines now? Sure. Are you guys excited about Hater coming back with the Jonestown show? I mean, you and Andy pointed out that the studio synchronicity of it it's really funny. Yeah. I still want the movie though. Me too. I want the Bill Hader movie. Okay. And I trust, I mean, he's a great TV maker as we know. And I like, I assume this is a mini series, not a feature. I think it's a mini series.

1:06:26Which sounds cool. But, where's Bill Hader's horror movie? Where's his incredibly violent action movie? Where's his thriller? I mean, it could be this. Could be all those things. Interesting. Where are you at on Jonestown? Good idea? Bad idea? I said on the pod, I'm actually like, I know all of the highlights without actually knowing the story. Oh, interesting. Why have you been keeping away from it? It's just one of those things in history or in life where you're like, right, the punch. But then you're like, oh, I actually don't know what was up with that guy. The punch. Sorry, it even took me a minute.

1:07:02Yeah. I really like The Sacrament, the Thai West movie, which is very loosely based on the Jonestown situation. I'm not saying that that's the whole story there. It's obviously not. But it's been kind of sort of done before. Was there a Jonestown TV movie? I believe there was. Somewhat famously like an Emmy-winning Jonestown. There's a Koresh one recently. That was with Riggins, right? Yeah. Taylor Kitsch. Did you watch that? I watched the first couple, and then I got the gist, and I moved on. What was the name of the show that you and Andy were talking about on the same episode? Sandbaggers. Sandbaggers, right.

1:07:39Extraordinary. So I'm excited to see it, but then the creator who was ex-military and was basically a spy was like disappeared over Alaska. I mean, that's conjecture. That's the movie I want to see. Can I give you one last question on the action movies tip? Yeah. So relative to our TV versus movies stuff, I think if you look at TV right now, a lot of the things that are really working, Reacher, Lioness, and or The Last of Us. have those shows kind of supplanted a working man, the accountant too? Because we talk about this with a lot of different kinds of things, like prestige TV. Did that come for Rain Man's ability to be both the biggest movie of the year and the best picture winner?

1:08:24We've had that conversation 900 times. But this is like a slightly different thing because it feeds, Reacher feeds the same impulse. It does. I don't think it ever reaches any of the ecstatic action heights that, say, Havoc does. but it does allow for a lot more. It's closer to the accountant that it probably is a working man, you know, where it's just like, it's got a lot of humor and it's got a lot of like. But it doesn't have Ben Affleck or John Brunthal. It doesn't. You know? How do you feel about Alan Richson? Large. Do you think he's compelling? He was pretty, I mean, he had to act opposite Brie Larson in the, it was on one of the fast.

1:09:05He blew her off the screen in Fast X. Well, I mean, he did. There's no doubt about it. And they were in, you know, some weird room, and I was distracted by her eyebrows. And then he was very charismatic opposite her. Legitimately. But that's, and I marveled at his physique. It was Marlon Brando and someone who's never acted before. He was good in the Guy Ritchie movie. He was. The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare. That was a fun movie. Guy Ritchie, speaking of action, he's got a film coming soon called Fountain of Youth. He's got like three films coming. That's going directly to Apple TV+. My question, why?

1:09:38It stars John Krasinski. Is it Natalie Portman? Yes. John Krasinski and Natalie Portman in an adventure film directed by Guy Ritchie straight to Disney Plus. I mean, Apple TV Plus. Why? Money. What money? They left money on the table. They got their money up front. That's probably why it costs like$300 million to make it. But shouldn't Apple try to make some more money on it? Am I crazy? They have enough money. Like, this is not Havoc where it's like 300 Chris's in a room crying and then like nothing on the second weekend. That's number one on Netflix. That'd be season three of the rehearsal. Havoc is far and away out of the four movies we discussed.

1:10:16Havoc is by far the most widely seen. And the best. Totally fair. But I understand that Apple TV is different. They have 300 million subscribers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fountain of Youth is coming out in less than a month. Okay. Does anyone know what that is? Well, everyone at this table now does. I know a fair amount about it just because I'm very curious about it. Because of Krasinski? No, because This Guy Ritchie is an object of fascination to me. And when he, like, I'm always interested in his, like, when are you trying? Versus, like, when are you directing via iPad from the set of a commercial you're also directing?

1:10:47The Covenant was really good. Yeah. I like that movie. Wrath of Man was good, but he was not on set for the direction of that film. Where was he? He was in England directing via iPad because of COVID. Oh, interesting. Yeah. I don't think I knew that. Yeah, I think he does. I know that's a big Tim Simons talking point. He works, he's like, he shot the first two episodes of Mobland, Fountain of Youth, The Grey, what's the next one coming with Gyllenhaal? In the Grey. In the Grey. That's like later this year and then he just signed up for another movie that he's directing. Sorry, did you read the plot summary of this film?

1:11:19And I just wasn't listening to you? Isn't it actually a quest for the Fountain of Youth? It's a brother and sister searching for the... Yeah, using historical clues. They embark on an epic quest filled with adventure. Yeah, it's like national treasure. If successful, the mythical fountain could grant them immortality. The siblings are John Krasinski and Natalie Portman? It's like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Did you say that out loud and I just like blacked out? I assumed that you saw the trailer. Who's the bad guy? I texted Chris about this like three weeks ago and I was like, why the fuck is this movie going to streaming?

1:11:42So Stanley Tudor is someone called The Elder who I'm guessing probably has wisdom. Is it the same character from The Electric State that he played? Oh, I forgot about that. That was tough. Probably. Did you see a picture of all the Conclave guys smoking at the actual Conclave? The real Cardinals. The real Cardinals. I think it was after the funeral, but there are a bunch of Cardinals outside. Yeah, it can't start till next week, right? So what are your plans? Let's go. Good question. Okay. We've already got one spinoff. We texted a little bit about some of our clubhouse favorites. Yeah. There's one guy who pissed off Mike Pence, who I was scouting.

1:12:19Interesting. You're trying to put your weight behind. Well, I worked for Ratzinger. Yeah, and that worked out great for the world. Great choice on your part. I wasn't saying I liked him. You mean for the betting markets? Yeah. Not for your passions as a I don't know. Avowed Catholic or not a Catholic? No. Okay. You have a pick? I'm more interested in the machinations, much like in the film Conclave. Apparently, Francis was sort of expanding the court. He was appointing a lot of new cardinals, which, I mean, you know, that was in his rate. Oh, wow. So that changes the demographic. And there's one guy who's a favorite who I think is the Stanley Tucci.

1:12:58He's like the Secretary of State guy. Interesting. And is he the favorite? He was the first one on the list on timemagazine.com. No CNN. I'm trying to find the blog that I read. By the way, said this privately. Great blogging podcast. Thank you so much. I don't know. You revealed Conclave So Real on that podcast, which we have revealed on this pod 900 times because it's one of my favorite things that ever happened. When you were just like, look at what I just wrote. August 19th, 2007. I was like, my friend is mentally ill. I love him. I don't know if it's going to work out for Chris. Ten years later.

1:13:36Chris, what do you think of having? Ten years later, a leader in your field. A god among men. I can't get over the Fountain of Youth thing. Also, they're releasing it on the same day as Lilo and Stitch, which is going to make a billion dollars, and Mission Impossible, The Final Reckoning. What the fuck? What? Is it where the Mission Impossible Final Reckoning is going to come in second, its opening weekend? It's very possible. It's very possible. Perhaps even likely. I think Lilo and Stitch is tracking for over$100 million. And that's a guy. What's that about? It's about, yeah, keep talking. Keep going.

1:14:08No, no, no. Tell us what you know about Lilo and Stitch. Stitch is a cat. And what then? No, this isn't a bit. Like, I'm actually trying to, like, figure it out. Like, I keep seeing commercials, I think. Yeah. Stitch is a cat. But is he, and then is Lilo his owner? No. It's about ownership. it's about human trafficking James Casembrook no Stitch is an alien who comes to earth and enters a young girl's life and they form a bond and he becomes a part of the family and he gets up to a lot of mischief ultimately Jason Statham comes and he has to solve everything it's a family story really it's a beautiful movie it's a live action adaptation of a Disney animated Gen Z classic It's just kind of insane that Tom Cruise is going to be like, I came in second.

1:15:03Do you think that's going to happen? Do you think he's going to do an Instagram post about going to see Lulon's ditch? Bob Iger blowing Tom Cruise's head off at the box office makes me really sad. I got to be honest. That's not what I want. I think he will acknowledge it. And he'll be like, have a great time out at the movies this weekend. No matter what you see.

1:15:24Yeah. Just don't stay at home and watch Fountain of Youth on Apple TV+. Plus, that's what he'll tell you. I mean, I guess we do know that the kid market trumps the grown-up market, so it probably will come in second. But I think it's going to do well. Me too. But it's not Memorial Day weekend, right? Is that Memorial Day weekend? Memorial Day is the last weekend of May. Oh, no, it is Memorial Day weekend. Isn't it? It is. Is Lilo and Stitch is also? Yeah. Yeah, it's Memorial Day weekend. Okay. And last question for you, CR. Are you going to see Hurry Up Tomorrow? The film about the weekend? Yeah, probably.

1:16:03I'll check it out. I mean, I like the idol. That's true. You did. You did like the idol. I was with you for like 1.7 episodes. And then we were at a party and a friend of ours accosted us. Actually, we were at a party at your house. And he called us on the carpet. And he was like, this is a shameful public act that you have participated in. That was like where I was like Boromir in Fellowship of the Ring. Right. Just taking all the arrows.

1:16:30I remember you were like, I'm committed now. I'm in too deep. It was the night before the finale and you actually had to go home. You're like, I got to go watch The Idol because... We've all been there. We've all been in... Like, I'm in too deep to get out now. Just like Sonny Crockett, I was too committed to The Idol. Yeah. I could have had a world-class French meal seated beside Ethan Hawke, but instead I went to go see Nyad. You know, that was what I did for the game. And you went home to watch The Idol. You left the party early to watch The Idol. Yeah. And you made content out of it. What have you done?

1:17:05What were your great sacrifices for the game? Watching Havoc in Palm Springs? Please know that I watched Havoc at 8 a.m. this morning. Not in, okay. In Los Angeles, California. I handed the children off. I was like, good luck, kiddos. I have to go back upstairs and watch Tom Cruise. I mean, Tom Hardy beat people into a pulp. I think every other decision I've made is good Chris thank you thanks for your service today I really appreciate you turning your time over to this show thanks to Jack Sanders for his work Amanda thank you we'll be back in I don't know 36 hours with a new 25 for 25 episode no spoilers about what it will be we will see you then

1:17:55Thank you.