Is ‘Weapons’ a Classic? And an Oscar Contender? Plus: The Best Movies at TIFF!

25:39And if it sounds like I'm choosing my words carefully, it's because on some level, I suspect the movie is much worse than I am describing it as. I'm just trying to give it some benefit of the doubt and figure out what my issue is. Yeah, it's a really interesting reaction that you've had, and you're not the first person to share this with me. I was texting with a relatively prominent person yesterday, not to sound like a complete D-bag, but what this person said to me was very funny, which is that all of his filmmaker friends hate this movie, and all of his critic friends love it. Love it. And I am curious to see how that shakes out.

26:17That actually is quite relevant to the Academy Awards race, but it's gotten relatively rapturous reviews. But at Telluride, there were probably five or six people that I spoke to who really had the same reaction that you did, which is like, this did not work on me. And I was, in fact, allergic to what it was trying to accomplish. But the way you described the ending for me, that did happen to me. It rallied hard for me. and I found the first hour of the movie kind of a slog. And then it did eventually just kind of wrap its arms around me and I gave myself over to it. So I'm very curious to hear what you think.

26:51Sure, yeah. And I don't think it's going to be divisive per se, but there will be a vocal minority that does not believe in this. And it'll be interesting to see as we talk about it for the next six months how that plays out. Well, and again, we narrativize everything at film festivals. You know, there was this idea with this movie in Telluride and being here, you know, it was presented with such a flourish by the festival. It's put in the biggest possible theater and, you know, the grandest possible introduction. And Chloe Zhao did the same breathing exercise thing and you hear that she did. IntelliRite people are mad at people for not enjoying that.

27:26You know, some of us have a schedule that's delaying the movie. I couldn't get to something else. But I was thinking that this is a movie about like going off to write. I'm with you, Adam. Mean pod guy, yes, he's back. I don't want to breathe with other people, you know? we're all breathing with each other every day on this earth. But it's a movie about basically telling your partner, I can't come home because I have to write. What's more relatable than that? Well, in that sense, it was the ultimate movie of TIFF for me. Because at this point, I've gotten not being a deadbeat down to a science, but having a festival on home turf exerts certain pressures.

28:01You get a text from home and it's like, I can't sit through this movie because I might have to pick somebody up. So in that sense, I was watching Hamnet. I was like, he's just like me, except he's going to try and write Hamlet or whatever. And I'm texting about, I'm tweeting about Hamlet, you know, but I will say this about Buckley. She is an actress who in films prior to this, even movies I haven't totally liked, I've never really felt hit a false note. I'm very in the tank for this actress. And then in this movie, which almost seems, if not designed to win her an award, it probably will. Although I want to talk about another lead performance in the festival I like more.

28:36and I wasn't feeling her. I know that's not sophisticated criticism, but I just was not. Damn. That's all I have to say to that. I haven't seen it. Damn. Are you talking about Testament of Anne Lee? I am. Okay. I'd like to talk about it. I saw it at Venice. So what do you make of this movie? Let's try to operate the same way we operated with Hamlet. Okay. You can give the broad outlines detail-wise and share your feelings because this is now, this is essentially, this and Marty Supreme are now kind of one and two at the top of my list for the rest of the year for what I want to see. Oh, Sean hasn't seen this one.

29:11Good, yay. So The Testament of Anne Lee is the new film directed by Mona Fastfold and co-written by Fastfold and Brady Corbet. They have the brutalist fame. Stars Amanda Seyfried and is about the founding of the Shaker religious movement in the late 1700s. So I won't spoil anything more except to say that I went in having a, I admire the filmmakers. I don't always jibe with what they are going for, which, you know, as Adam, you were saying earlier that, is that a me problem? Is that a, you know, a film problem? It's good to be aware of these things. And I, it does feature singing, which I didn't know going in and can be a real hit and miss with me personally.

30:04you know, people just start singing and I can get quite alarmed. I was really taken with it. I thought it was really strange and interesting and working with a lot of the same ideas as The Brutalist, but maybe in ways that to me are more fully realized or at least contained within their, achieved within the movie more wholly. I also really liked the amazing performance. I will say I think I saw the first press screening at Venice and I saw more Italian people walking out of this movie than anyone else. So another one that is, which that's a problem with old Italian people. But maybe a movie that will be kind of black licorice for some people, but I really liked it.

30:58I just I'm a big fan especially in festival season when there's a budget of movies that are threatening to fall on their face at any time yeah like that are really kind of taking a risk and this is like an episode of drunk history you know oh brother where are thou diegetic songs and it's it's so close to either parody or self-parody I have this thing where it's often a compliment for me if a movie feels like it almost could be directed by David Wayne you know This movie has that quality, but it pushes through the other side of it and becomes to me quite beguiling and strange. And I actually felt some of the emotions dealing with parenthood and loss more acutely in this movie in passing than I did in Hamnet, which it's a somewhat similar movie to in the sense of how is someone channeling their trauma?

31:48in this case, not necessarily into artwork, but into this kind of abstinence-first religious movement where this is supposedly, I mean, it's not an authentic movie. It's not about verisimilitude. It is a, you know, O Brother, We're Our Thou-style folk musical. But this idea that this whole movement was founded out of just absolute grief over the loss of these children, where it's like, you know, the only way to be close to God is to take sex out of the equation because the potential attendant lost too much. And one other thing that I think is... handled better in this, but we won't spoil it. No, we won't spoil it.

32:22And I agree with you, it is handled better in this. I know Sean and I had our long chat about what works and what doesn't about The Brutalist, and I still stand by that. This movie doesn't improve or disimprove The Brutalist for me, but I kind of like her half of the filmmaking family. I think just by virtue of not being so macho, the cult of personality stuff in this is more interesting. like you know it is a movie about cults of personality they're obsessed with this clearly collectively i found this to be pretty for lack of a better word it's very fun it is which is weird to say about weird to say stop i mean this is a movie about a the founding of a religious movement in the late 1700s like you know line everybody up i'm sure like what a bar but uh it is it is fun notably still does not have distribution which i'm no quite fascinated by It's getting late in the day if it's going to be a film that comes out in 2025.

33:19And, you know, theater kid energy for the win with this. It's true. And I normally am so allergic to that. And it really did win me over. Yeah. And Seyfried is, I mean, she's just, I mean, what an actress generally. Yeah. You know, I think she's great in everything. And I thought she was wonderful in this. Is there anything else you want to touch on that you saw that was of note? Well, also speaking of theater kid energy, my favorite screening experience was Maddie's Secret. The John Early film, which, you know, is the only movie that not a single person I spoke to didn't enjoy. It's a very hard movie to explain, which does mean I don't want to try.

33:55But, you know, the short version is, I tweeted, I think, Wet Hot May, December, you know? Great. A movie that has the kind of like ensemble comedy vibes of a David Wayne movie, but the stylization and thematics of a Todd Haynes movie, particularly the Todd Haynes, not just of May, December, but like of Superstar, the Karen Carpenter story, which is a big influence on this because this is sort of a, I hesitate to call it a parody or a pastiche. It's not mocking it in a bad way, but of after-school specials or TV movies of the week. In this case, it's a dishwasher at a big food content influencer company who becomes an on-screen star.

34:31And this weighs on her personal life and whether she wants to have a kid. And And certainly it reactivates the psychological issues she has related to food. And she is played in, John Early called it not a drag performance, but she's played in a wig by John Early, the co-writer, director of the film. And it's a beautiful performance, fully realized character. The whole movie is in quotes, but the whole movie is sincere. when it does get online there's a scene of conor o'malley who runs the food influencer company saying something like let's make content which i think should just become our stand and answer to everything you know that's that's a goat right there conor o'malley well this is it people were like on the first night there were other things like why are you going to maddie's secret and i'm like this is like cape berlant and conor o'malley these are the people i want to see it yeah give a shit about you know whoever else has a gal these people are brilliant it's a brilliant cast and the tonal control and the formal control of it for a movie that was made very cheaply they talked about like filming it in john early's house you know it's the same team that produced rap world which is a great film amazing yeah yeah no i i think it's really good and i think it was one of those movies that felt organically like everyone on the ground went to see it and enjoyed it a lot of people i know were there for the premiere and then over the course of the festival i saw people adding it to their website tiffer which is this website that helps you share schedules and i saw people I know logging it on logging it on Letterboxd.

35:57Yeah, it's a separate use site that lets you schedule it and see what your friends are doing. It's very helpful. Got it. Also to know what to avoid, you know. Tiffer. Tiffer. So yeah, Maddie's Secret. Really, really, really good. Great, Rex. What are the big, any huge, I mean, no other choice? Did you get out to that? I did. And I was underwhelmed. It's one of those movies where, what do you mean no kidding? It's okay. the filmmaker's great but i i found it tedious you know it's like it's too long it's too long almost when every shot is perfect what hits you know this guy he's a he's a master filmmaker and in this case i'd be like and because i just you know the material the donald westlake material is very pulpy and this is not pulp exactly it's like operatic pulp i'm going to try and write about it at some point i know people liked it a lot i would not begrudge anybody enjoying it it's not like it's badly made i did like it um but i you know i i do think that it it's it's two and a half hours and you can you can feel when it hits two hours and things get a little loosey-goosey on the flip side there there are a couple of set pieces that were very exciting yeah i mean he look he has he's he's he has juice as a filmmaker but this is not a surprise and i'm shocked that it didn't win anything in Venice because formally it's obviously, you know, very, you know, very impressive.

37:27It won the International People's Choice Award this year, which is, is that a new thing that TIFF is doing? It is a new thing. So many wonderful awards at TIFF. We're getting into the danger zone of asking me what I think about TIFF and its awards this year, which could make for a very long contentious podcast. So suffice it to say it was probably always going to be the movie that won that award because he's a very commercially oriented, you know, quote unquote, foreign language, foreign language filmmaker. And as for the other stuff, I mean, you either talk about it or you don't, there were some real controversies on the ground with TIFF this year.

38:02I don't know how much they intersect with the listenership of an American podcast or how much it really matters, you know, but there was, there were programming decisions that were the stuff of much scrutiny and media explanation, you know, on the ground pertaining to this documentary you know the the the road between us by Barry Averich which and it it could only have ended this way that after being programmed deprogrammed reprogrammed under extremely contentious you know controversial circumstances with a fortified premiere and you know unbelievable levels of online scrutiny and protest it then went and won the people's choice award for best documentary which is like in a grim way, the funniest possible outcome.

38:45You know, this is going to, this is one of those chapters in Tiff's history that I think will be more legible and interesting in retrospect. And if you chose to not navigate the festival, being mindful of that, then you don't notice it's happening because as far as the actual movie goes, who gives a shit, but the stories were quite thick on the ground. Is that obscuring it too much to say all that? I mean, that's the thing is that these festivals, which if you do not attend, seem like ivory tower experiences where only the most blessed people get to walk into them. It's like these are all made by regular people doing their best and making mistakes on a regular basis.

39:26And they're very, the narrative and the feeling changes every day based on what movie has played or what person has been allowed to participate in the party. And so I'm not surprised to hear you say that. Also, you know, it's such an important event to Toronto, but there's no denying that TIFF has fallen back a couple of steps to some of the other major festivals. Like, just in terms of the hierarchy of what films premiere there, like, it's clear that it's happened in the last 10 years. And that narrative is both, like, true because it's a narrative. And then if you take it apart, sometimes it's not a fair narrative or the way that people think movies get invited or programmed or whose choice it is.

40:04I mean, it's not really the way it works. And you guys know this, right? But this year is the 50th anniversary of the festival. And it was funny. They show these pre-film bumpers, which if you ever attend the festival once or twice, you laugh. And then by the 10th or 11th time, you want a drill to extract the evil spirits from your head because you're just so sick of it. But they had the one, the ad for the volunteers who deserve applause every year. They're great. Which is like, I think the punchline is like, stop trying to make Tifty happen because it's the Tiff 50. And that, that, that, that portmanteau word.

40:33And the joke is that, you know, in the end, you know, Tifty turns out to be a good nickname, but it was almost like TIF itself stopped trying to make Tifty happen because some of the press about this idea of programming and who was taking responsibility for inviting this particular film, which was invited and then disinvited and then re-invited and their interviews having to clarify the reasons for this. it curdles things a little bit on the ground to the point where some filmmakers you know are even mentioning it from the stage where local press and twitter are definitely talking about it like it sort of supersedes the question of like hey remember when the big chill premiered here 40 years ago like that's what they wanted the feeling right to be yeah and that just sort of became hard when reality comes and sweeps in and and and and intrudes and i mean if anything i think we're to start seeing this more and more.

41:23We saw it at the Emmys last night or various red carpet speeches. I mean, that was starting to pierce that tiff bubble of everything's fine. While having massive respect for programmers at the festival who I work with and being lucky enough to cover it, it did not feel like all was fine. And that's why if you choose to just put your head down and see movies and navigate it, that's a valid reaction. And if you're covering it or if you're on the ground living in the city, you can feel it. It's not something I'm imposing. It's something that was felt by all kinds of people I spoke to. Filmmakers, visitors.

41:58Maybe not in the Criterion line, but a lot. Just to put a cap on that in general, I think the Criterion experience and that community that you were describing earlier is for many people a respite from what seems like a very, very chaotic and scary period of time in the world. And I certainly have been using movies for the last decade as a rejoinder or rejection or shelter from a lot of those things. But especially if you're a film festival that is inviting international cinema, the works of art are going to be about what's happening in the world and you're going to have to contend with them and confront them.

42:39And so it's a paradox, right? Because you want to escape, but that's not using art to not escape is one of the great things about art. Can I ask Amanda something? Because I've not been, I've been to Venice, the city. I've done like, you know, the Don't Look Now tour of Venice, but I've not been to the festival. You wear a raincoat? Yeah. Yeah. I keep wanting my daughter to dress up in a red raincoat for Halloween and my wife's like, that's a bad idea. I'm like, it's funny. It's a bit. Were there people at the movies, Amanda, like regular people? Yes, there are. And if anything, I would say that this year was a little oversubscribed in terms of the number of people who were there on a small island in a city that has some infrastructural challenges, if you will, trying to get into the movie.

43:30So it was hard to see movies and I did not I was not able to see everything that I wanted to see. Venice does it slightly differently where everything is ticketed and then you can kind of stand in a line last minute to try to get in if people don't show up. But so it was more that it was difficult to get tickets than it was just to be standing in line for hours and hours. But people are there. And I met young people, like young listeners of the podcast who, who, you know, one was traveling for, he had like a scholarship before college and so used the money to go to the festival and other people.

44:08Did they ask what Sean was like? No, they just asked for a selfie on a water bus, which was sort of tricky from a balance perspective, but we got it done. This message is brought to you by Apple Pay. Forget your wallet, it's all good because with Apple Pay, you can pay with a simple tap of your iPhone, the wallet you never forget at millions of places worldwide, including websites, apps, and anywhere you see the contactless symbol. Security is built in with Face ID, so you don't have to worry about your cards getting lost or stolen. And the best part, you still earn the card rewards, points, and cash back you love.

44:40So say goodbye to the bifold, add your card to Apple Wallet, and start paying the Apple way. Terms apply. Adam, thank you for great work, as always, covering the festival. Thank you for having me. The good news is that there's a Paul Thomas Anderson movie coming soon. So you'll be back on the pod very soon, which we're excited about. Yeah. One podcast after another. I look forward to it. There it is. That's how we live every day. Alright, let's go to our chat with Chris Ryan now.

45:12Okay, CR is here. And he's here because an unusual thing happened, which is a movie phenomenon struck and I picked my head up and my two pod bros were not here. You guys were on the East Coast. You were alone in the classroom. I was alone and I was the Alex Lilly of the big picture when Weapons came out. And I did my best and I had a really fun conversation with Zach Kreger about the movie, but the streets needed to know. Well, they needed to know what CR thought. But now the streets need to know what Amanda thinks too. I think personal against you, but you know, you're not a horror expert. This was one of the horror sensations of the year.

45:51So we're going to talk a little bit about Weapons and a little bit about The Conjuring Last Rites, which is also going to be one of the biggest movies of the year because that's just how things are going in Hollywood right now. But CR. Yeah. Zach Kregger's Weapons, what did you think of the movie? Loved it. Loved it. Seen it twice. The second time, it went from like four stars to five stars for me, I think. It really, like knowing where it's going and knowing how long each of the sections last, I think is just like, it kind of settles your loser brain while you're watching it and you're just sort of enjoying every little piece.

46:23And, you know, the second time I went with my wife and she was like, let me know when I can pee. And I was like, you can't. Because I actually can't pick a point where you should be absent for one of these sections. And each time, like, I kept thinking like, oh, wait, because she could kind of like, no, this is the Marcus section. This is where Gladys reveals and all this stuff. So I think that to have something that's such a huge movie and so deeply entertaining and satisfying, that's also like something you can pick over and something you can wonder about how to interpret and think about all the different ideas in it.

46:57But also it's just an incredibly satisfying movie experience. It's a really, really big reward. Amanda, the last time we talked about a Zach Kregor movie on this podcast. I had a concussion. Yes, you've damaged your skull because you walked into a piece of furniture. It was my first day back from leave after that. Yes. So my first day at work after having a child, a pretty emotional, disorienting thing. And then I did, in fact, walk into a pole. Yes, and you were rewarded after that with a scene-by-scene description of Zack Kreger's Barbarian from Chris and I. Yeah. This time around, you saw the movie.

47:33I did. Even though you saw the trailer, it's in the Macon, and said, I will never be seeing that movie. Right. But you didn't suspect that it would become as big as it has become, right? That was what you had said earlier this week. I knew it was going to be a thing because Barbarian was a sensation and you both were so excited for it, you know? And because of the presentation, the reason that I wasn't going to see it because it was like about a bunch of kids disappearing and that's a pretty tender topic at any given time. Because you are hiding children? Not Drake. Poor class. But it wasn't because I didn't expect it to do well.

48:18but I still I think we all were kind of like wow 43 million or something around there the very first weekend that was that was a big deal especially in in August for a movie like that to pop so there's two places to go in this well first of all what did you think oh I liked it a lot you did yeah yeah yeah no I really I liked it very much I thought it was um strange and also compulsively watchable I want to like talk about what it's about and also it's its resolutions. But, yeah, no, this is quite good. I get it. It is really, even though it has supernatural elements, and we're going to spoil the movie all the way through here, even though it has supernatural elements, like it is basically a suspense thriller for the first hour and a half.

49:02I mean, like I was thinking M.H. Amalan, but like more pinned down. Yes, yes. Sort of. It is, I agree with you. But then it goes into some outlandish places in interesting ways. The other reason that I think the movie is kind of demanding some conversation is like it is also potentially an awards movie this year, which is not something I ever would have guessed. Even when I saw it at first, I never really entertained that. And then the way that it has picked up in the culture, it's now available on VOD so people can watch it. But I think it is among the highest grossing original horror movies of all time.

49:43And I think it is actually in the top 30 highest grossing horror movies of all time. which is just fascinating when you think about the origins of this movie, which is that it's a movie written from like a place of vulnerability after Kreger's close friend passed away and just trying to get something out that is related to the feeling that he had around that and then find a way to turn it into movie form and then manage to create this bidding war for the movie with the studios and being the studio that it landed at is the same studio that launched Sinners this year. And so it becomes part of this bigger conversation about what's going on in this genre.

50:15But before we get into that, I have no one to blame but myself for this but I pointed out some frustration with critics who were asking the question what is this movie about? Or it is not really about anything. And you know that's my mistake for being on social media but I do want to have that conversation with you guys because we've now had over a month to like witness the movie and it's you know residual discourse. Oh has it been good the discourse? I was no it's been very divisive that was sarcastic well shit guys I don't think the discourse has been bad I don't think it's been bad like I don't think it's not like it's not toxic it's just that there's there's certainly a strain of people who don't like the movie or think the movie is like thin or doesn't really decide on what it wants to be about and then there are other people who are like how many movies do you watch a year like no movies feel like this right yeah so for you Chris like what was your takeaway in terms of what you thought this movie was about it hadn't occurred to me that it had to be about anything.

51:18I mean, I don't necessarily think that's a requirement of a movie to be both great and about something. I don't really know what Pulp Fiction's about. I don't really know what... And what's Eyes Wide Shut about. A lot of stuff, but not explicitly at the end of the movie or like, now I understand. I'm not comparing weapons to either of those movies in terms of... You think it's much better than... I think clearly, we should just start cinema history over again, ADBC. Let's delete the other films that came before. Yeah, let's delete all the other pods we've ever done. But I do think that there are some pretty obvious ideas.

51:59I think the thing that people are having a hard time with is this movie is meant to be interpreted, but perhaps not solved. And because it happens in a genre that people often are either given a third act that explains like, well, there was a farmer here before and he killed his family and their demons have been haunting this house the entire time. Because there's not a really tidy explanation for why is Gladys doing this or how is she doing it? Why are these people susceptible, but some other people aren't? And what the fuck is with the gun? Because there's not a tidy explanation, I think people are kind of grasping at straws and we're being like, he doesn't know.

52:36And so how dare he hint at this, that, or the other thing without having a suitable explanation? Yeah, I saw that as like a little bit of a hangover effect of 10 years of post, kind of post Ari Aster, Jordan Peele horror where those guys made films that had a lot of subtext and thematic meaning and that they were often very definitively about ideas. Right. And then a lot of kind of imitators that came in their path that then got identified as elevated horror. Each film had to have like a central thesis for being. Often one that the characters themselves explain. explain yeah um and this movie obviously doesn't do that even though it explains some things did when you were watching it did you find yourself like hunting for theme or were you just watching it as a thrill ride well i definitely was like what's that gun about you know but but not in like yeah but as a reasonable question as it was happening i was like well that seems like a very large assault weapon um just floating in the sky but then but and that was also i was trying to figure out okay so like this is a mirror how you know that was very much in a like i'm trying to I am trying to solve whatever is going on, like the characters in the movie and like, you know, my dumb brain.

53:49Based on this movie and then what you told me about weapons when I had a head injury. Barbarian. Oh, that's right. That's right. You still have the head injury, unfortunately. Yeah, sorry. CTE is real. I was, as the Gladys stuff starts coming together, I was kind of like, okay, so older maternal figures, interesting depictions across two movies. And perhaps, you know, maybe we could investigate that slightly. I was like, hmm, what should I take from this? But that's really all. And I didn't, you know, I wasn't suddenly like, okay, well, so Zack Greger is saying that all women over the age of 40 are bad or something.

54:35You know, I wasn't, I was just kind of, I noticed that, but that's as far as it went. Yeah, there's definitely something to that, to the, you know, the hag figure. But then there's also like, I think the movie, I think Barbarian weirdly has a lot of empathy for its monster and its monster is a victim in that movie. This is different. In this movie, the monster is the monster. Yeah. And there's no confusion about that. You asked whether I was looking and thinking about themes and I was like, hmm, I see this. But that's as far as it went. Otherwise, I really was trying to figure out like, okay, what's happening?

55:04and to Chris's point, you know, I had to keep watching. I watched this on VOD, but I was locked in. I did not look at my phone because you could not. Yeah. You don't want to miss anything. Exactly. And the story moves quickly and you do want to understand at least plot-wise what's going on. I feel like it is potentially about a great many things and at least suggesting to me the grief element was that was the thing that popped out to me the most it wasn't this idea of like is this movie about school shootings that was something that people jumped to right away because of the disappearance of kids in an empty classroom and then the image of the AR-15 over the house when Brolin is searching for his child and the title certainly but to me it was the confusion and the depression that engulfs people when you lose someone.

56:03Like that is really the driving force of the movie's idea for me. And to me, even if it is not the most deftly explored version of that idea, I was like, that's more than enough for a movie to be about. And I think that's something that movies generally, but specifically horror movies, have often explored. It's like a common anxiety or fear or malady. So there's something wrong with my child, right? and then it's like what if your child was Pazuzu you know like that is what the horror movie comes in and is like I can't and look like it's obvious that I wonder whether Kregger is now like it's awesome that I have everybody spinning out about this AR-15 or if he's like if I had just taken the AR-15 out like there would be no kind of like what the fuck like what does this really mean but if you take it at face value you're like, well, this is a movie where a bunch of children disappear and then an automatic weapon is floating around in the night sky, so it's an allegory about a community dealing with the loss of children after a mass shooting.

57:10If it is that, that's totally fine with me. It's also like, how would you deal with that? And what would you need for there to be to deal with this kind of situation? And what you would need is a monster. You would need a witch. You would need something to explain why this happened. And possession and turning good people into bad people and that there's something out there that's doing that rather than maybe something inside of them. So I think I find that awesome to think about also coming out of like, there's good needle drops and Austin Abrams is very funny in this movie, you know? Right. Yeah.

57:46It's funny. My reaction to, I think that's very smart and is in line to, maybe not my frustration, but as a non-horror, you know, habitual. At some point when it's clear, like the literal explanation in the movie is like a supernatural thing. And I always, I'm just like, well, I always feel slightly disappointed by that. Just because I don't like really seek out horror movies for the gore. And so then the only other aspect of it, and often in horror movies, is like a supernatural or else someone is, has just lost their mind. And the explanation is like never quite good enough for what's going on in the movie, which is maybe itself something like profound about life.

58:38But I think that it's, I don't think that I was looking for an answer or for a lesson, like a lesson from it. But that at some point, like the structure of the reason that I don't always seek out horror movies is because like some sort of like supernatural, like metaphorical thing that like sort of solves it, but like doesn't really never quite speaks to me in the way that I guess other movies just dealing with actual real life things. So I think I'm on your side, even though I felt like I agree with you, even though I bumped up against the lack of the answer. But that's just because I think the form and the horror movie asks the questions, but maybe doesn't totally provide answers.

59:33Yeah, I think in this movie that that conversation has two tracks. One track goes down a road of questions about Aunt Gladys and how she works and what she's actually getting by trapping these kids. And is it keeping her younger? Is it making her more young? How old is she? Where did she come from? Is she actually this woman's great aunt? in the movie she represents herself to the principal as her sister. There's a lot of unexplained kind of hidden information around the Amy Madigan character. So that's one thing. And then the other thing is, to your point that's a little bit more broad, I think you would agree with this for the most part, but for most horror movies, the first hour is usually more satisfying than the second hour.

1:00:20And this is a movie with a relentless first hour where you are just like, good God, I'm inside this. They have like completely wrapped me around their finger of the unraveling of this story. And the second hour, there is an answer about what's happening. Some people may not like the answer and that's okay. That's just, that's movies, right? It's subjective. But. the answer not being something hard coded into what it means seems to be what is bothering some people about it. Whereas for me, it did the thing that I think a lot of great horror movies do, which is that you get an answer, right? We find out what's happening.

1:00:59It's Aunt Gladys. We actually find out with a lot of movie left that there's a witch and this witch has trapped these kids and that she's using them to stay alive and she's kind of like got this town under control. But the resolution of the story, which is this unbelievable, breathtaking moment where, you know, Alex raps and snaps the twig. And the chase sequence is the most incredible thing I've ever, yeah. Which is just like pure pop cinema joy. And it's shot for maximum laughs. Yes. Like the guy with a lawnmower. Yes. It's like Coen Brothers making an Exorcist movie. It's fucking awesome. And mirrors like the opening like montage of all the children running away through the night, which I found like to be very memorable and upsetting.

1:01:43Yes. So no, it's great stuff. But so then you get to the end and you're like, that was really satisfying. Or at least that's how I felt. But I didn't feel like I needed to kind of unpack those additional details that were otherwise unexplained because I'm like, this is a supernatural horror movie. He does a lot of things that are really interesting in terms of the narrative organization of the movie, not only because of the chapter kind of like, not quite Rashomon where things are massively different depending on who's watching them, but like you just get different pieces of information from different narrators and different POV characters.

1:02:12I thought it was striking to me, you write about the horror movie first acts are often where the audience sees themselves the most. Because that's the scenarios. You've gone on vacation in the woods. You've been to a punk rock bar. You've been to... You've had nights, I'm sure, where your kids just won't calm down. Or whatever it is that the horror movie is picking at. The longer the horror movie goes in, the more it gets further away from the audience, I think. Because it's like, well, now this guy's changed me with a chainsaw. That's never happened to me. My car's broken down before but I've never been chased by Leatherface.

1:02:47I think that the interesting thing with the way this movie starts is the indescribable happens first. So the first thing we hear is that all these kids have disappeared. It's interesting too, because they never, they also says they never come back, you know. Then, most of the beginning opening shots are from behind, like following these people walking into rooms and following all of the, like first Justine shots are from behind. Yeah. Which is a very first person shooter weird trick to put you in the perspective of this person, but it's happening after the tragedy. So I think that almost lessens the effect of it being like trauma porn.

1:03:27You know what I mean? It almost becomes more of a fairy tale as it goes on that way. Zach, my husband, agreed to watch at least the first half with me, which is pretty rare because he will not watch anything upsetting. And he was like, I heard that it's not like scary scary it's more just upsetting but and I think like I think that's true but the first hour there aren't any kills there's nothing really even I guess there's some spooky stuff there's three big jump scares in the movie that all feature and Gladys it's the two dreams in the basement yes and then I guess to some extent the moment in the woods where she's that's creepy which is really a great amazing shot but particularly Justine seeing her in the light fixture in the ceiling and then Brolin seeing her in the bed are the two moments really where you're like in a movie theater at the premiere I was like that was fucking scary you know like it is using the James Wan like loud bang trick where when they show you the fright you know it's using a familiar trick but when you don't know anything about Aunt Gladys and you see that in a loud in a quiet dark movie theater it was very effective but the rest of the movie doesn't really care about that stuff at all I mean it really doesn't use any of those horror movie tools, it's really kind of only interested in unfurling what it thinks is good about the story.

1:04:44I think there's also a lot of like, am I supposed to laugh or be scared here? Like when Alex's mom comes out of the house with the scissors and walks up to the car and Justine's sleeping and you're like, is she going to kill Justine? Is she going to kill herself? Like what's going to happen? Well, when the back door opens, everybody in the theater was like, yeah, it was really, really good. That's like that moment that gets described by the great cinematographer William Fraker often talks about this scene in Rosemary's Baby where Polanski has him like move the camera so that everybody has to crane their head around the door jam to see and he's like everybody in the theater at the premiere just like move their head to the right it's like little tricks like that are amazing there's one other idea that I this did not occur to me but I love it as a as something that this movie could be about which is just the way that older people just overlook what's going on with their kids and all kids and communities and that they don't really, are not attentive enough.

1:05:40And also that Gladys represents an older generation that is vampiring younger generations. And using, like, siphoning their life force, quite literally, to stay in power. To sit on that, to sit in that three-bedroom palace. Yes. Yes. And that is, I thought, a smart reading. A cool way of thinking about the movie. Again, I don't know, if that's something Craig was thinking about specifically, but you could feel that. You could, that interpretation makes a lot of sense to me. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out parts of this movie and then I like let it go where it was like, what is it about the characters who Gladys basically like indoctrinates over the course of the film that makes them vulnerable to her powers versus Justine, who I guess is really the one who is impenetrable, you know, and even though she gets her hair cut and everything, she has never snapped into a sort of accolade of Gladys.

1:06:42Right. And I couldn't really figure it out. There's something obviously childlike about Marcus the principal, who's like a Disney adult, who's watching eating kids' food, basically. The entire movie. Seven hot dogs, you and Phoebe? Could you do it? I think they cut them in half. So I bet... Do they? They're pretty small hot dogs, aren't they? I thought there were seven full hot dogs on a tray. Yeah. I mean, it was beautifully presented. I honestly shouldn't. You should shoot. Two is like my limit. It's a lot. Two is a lot. How many hot dogs could you eat? I mean, three if like pressed to, you know?

1:07:17Cool. But I think two is probably best. I did after that when I saw it the second time and I was at the supermarket afterwards, I hit up some Pepperidge Farm for the first time in a long time. Nice. Because I got some Milanos. Oh, yeah. Quality cookie. Mark is very inspirational. Just like, it's about me, you know? Is there anything to... Well, one other idea that's in the movie is about sobriety, which I thought was kind of interesting, which is that in the weapons font, we see the AA symbol, you know, the triangle inside of the circle. And, you know, we know that Alden Ereirek's character is in AA.

1:07:58We know that Justine... Reluctantly. Very reluctantly. Justine is a drinker. there's some James is a meth addict yes there's a there's a drug addict who's trying to get money any way he can so they can get more drugs again these are not like they're details about characters that help you understand the world that they live in it's not a thesis about addiction or recovery or any of those ideas but it's there and it does you know is Justine's relationship to alcohol dictate whether or not she's susceptible to the witch or not. I don't think there's any clear line of logic there, but it is the kind of thing that gets you thinking.

1:08:41And I think a fair criticism is like, that's messy to not clarify that. But I never felt that when I was watching. But then I read people and they're like, why is this not resolved or communicated more clearly? Why she's the exception. Yeah. I like the idea that all the characters in the movie, you know, as we join them, what is it, a month after it's happened, right? Something like that is like when it starts, have moved into, even though the dominating thing that should be shrouding this town in darkness is this disappearance of all these kids that are moving into their own shit, you know, and Justine is kind of both at once like trying to clear her name and become a detective and get to the bottom of it, but is also having like this sort of narcissistic moment of being like, everybody is against me.

1:09:31Everybody thinks I'm a witch. I mean, that to me, the biggest plot hole is, ma 'am, leave the town, you know? But I understand it's a classic horror movie. Like, don't go down there, but like, don't go to the meeting. Well, one explanation I think for that is that she's already been like let go from one job as a teacher. And if she leaves another one, then she might have trouble getting a third job. That was my interpretation of it. And that if she's kind of like, I have to stay here to teach, and then she gets put on leave. But I... I don't think she would be able to let it go, though. Because I think she's somebody who's either like, I'm on it.

1:10:09That's why she wants to talk to Alex. She's like, we're the only ones left. Or I'm drinking a giant glass of vodka and watching reality television and going to bed. Seems like a good teacher, and the rest of her life is kind of... A mess. Not full. Yeah. Yeah. But as far as Paul and James goes, it's interesting. I mean, I guess Paul... is making a passing kind of gesture towards sobriety, but clearly seems reluctant to go to a meeting when his fiance or his partner suggests that he does so. And then James, in some ways, is kind of like the most naked character, but I don't know. What did you make of the Austin Abrams character in this movie?

1:10:49Is he there for comic relief? Is he there to move plot along? I mean, a bit of both. I think he's there to like represent a certain kind of like real life concern in communities. You know, that like when you're looking for explanations for problems, you'd be like, it's the drug addicts fault. You know what I mean? And the way that cops would be distracted by your local junkie and not really getting to the bottom of bigger problems in communities is son of a police officer over here. you know like there's something to that there's something to the way that time is spent um in law enforcement and whether or not it's adding up to a greater good is like that's a provocative idea you know i don't know if he's fully exploring it it's an it's another piece of the puzzle um in this magnolia by way of hereditary movie right that he's constructed um aunt gladys let's talk about her so I told this story on the pod when I saw the movie at the premiere Kreger brought Amy Madigan on stage before the movie and he said now I'd like to introduce my dream come true Amy Madigan and I was like Amy Madigan's in this movie?

1:12:03I was like I haven't seen Amy Madigan in a movie in like 10 years and when she came on stage and was the last person introduced and everybody was clapping I was like hmm what's going on on here. Yeah, a big deal. And, you know, you're an hour plus into the movie. And I was like, where's Amy Madigan? Yeah. And then she shows up. And she shows up and she's unrecognizable. And I think for most people, they won't recognize the wife from Field of Dreams right away. You know, the woman who gives the, you know, profound speech about literature in the high school gymnasium. And I think this is just a crazy good horror movie villain performance.

1:12:40Yeah. And she's very, very scary. and you immediately want to know more about what she's trying to do, which is the sign of a good villain in my mind. Like, what is the motivation? Where is it coming from? How does it work? Right. All the tools. They do a pretty good job of explaining that too. I mean, she's made up like a terrifying clown, which is, you know, very smart. And also just the colors are used very well in what is otherwise like a pretty muted. Very muted, yeah. Yes, good point. She's actually in, I didn't notice this the first time, but she's in the opening couple of minutes of the movie where there's a shot from behind Alex as he's given a Coke and they're interviewing and then they do like a kind of like, you can see the red wig in like a quarter of the frame.

1:13:28Her side. And I didn't notice that the first time around. It's interesting that she's only truly seen in that way by Alex, the kids presumably, and Marcus. who is childlike in his own way. And like, there's almost like this, she scares me because I'm a kid and this is how I imagine she looks kind of way. But when she's like later in the film, when she's like just wearing like her braid and is like drinking, drinking the stews or whatever the fuck she's doing. She looks so much different. But like to these, to these kids, she looks like this grotesque kind of redheaded clown figure. It's very, very chilling.

1:14:10when I was in Telluride I was talking about how supporting actress is a weird and possibly weak category this year and you can see it's a good story I like the idea of you like bellying up to a bar with nobody and just started talking about supporting actress you're talking to a bartender who's never seen a movie before I mean this is this is who I am this is what I do but yeah it's not it's not the most robust category and penny free thoughts this is you know her career is a very interesting one and she's given a lot of great performances and seems like someone who's very well liked you know i think a lot of people think of her and they think of the uh not applauding ilia kazan moment at the academy awards with her husband ed harris because of the house on american activities testimony that he gave and just being a very um ethical and politically minded person yeah and you know she's done a lot of good work but like i said just you know gone baby gone maybe is the last big movie that i remember her being in i guess she was in Scott Cooper's Antlers some years ago but really it's like places in the heart female perversions fields of dreams 80s and 90s is really a sweet spot for her I'm sure that she did you would know that better than me but now when you google Amy Madigan one of the first images you see is Aunt Gladys you know what I mean like this is gonna end up becoming one of the signature roles of her career she seems to be having a blast I'm really happy for her I mean she's really wonderful in this movie any you think any other Oscar potential having seen it now I mean it's very it's very well made it is upsetting to a lot of people you know below the line I don't know something like this would have to have some like up top support in order to I think really make it into some of the guild categories and when is the last time a like big budget horror movie was in the in like in the best picture conversation?

1:16:10Probably get out. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So it's like every 10 or 12 years. Yeah. Yeah. It could happen. I hope sinners in this are nominated for best picture. I think that would be really good. Yeah. I mean, this is one of the conundrums of this year and that a campaign Warner Brothers, I guess, announced, DeLuca and Abdi announced that they would be mounting campaigns for sinners weapons and one battle after another. And it's very hard for movie studios to campaign for more than two movies, let alone one movie. I would imagine that Weapons is the, you know, the little sibling relative to those two because those two movies have big potential as best picture candidates and all that other stuff.

1:16:51You know, in a different year, in a softer year, I think an original screenplay for Weapons is not out of the realm of possibility. It's now contending with sinners in that same category. You know what I mean? Where it's like, would they really nominate two horror movies for original screenplay from the same studio? Maybe they would. I don't really know. But that would be cool. I do think Amy Madigan has a good chance. Best picture, I don't really see it, but I hope it happens. It would be fun. It would be very fun. Kreger. So he's making a Resident Evil movie next, which is coming out next year, starring Austin Abrams.

1:17:28I've never played Resident Evil, but I know that you have. Extensively, yeah. What happens in Resident Evil? You are in a town. You play different characters in different versions of the game. I can't remember the name of the girl you play as, but that's who Mila Jovovich plays in all the Paul W. Anderson movies. And then the town has had a chemical accident in a biological lab, and the residents are all zombies. So in the game, it's just a lot of horror setups where you walk into a room and it's dark, and then like all of a sudden some jim cha to you but you also have to solve a puzzle to get out of the room.

1:18:07So it's okay. Pretty entertaining. I played it mostly early in my video game life. When I talked to Zach, I asked him about IP, making an IP movie and he was like, this is not in the same way that you would think about it. Like this is an original story that just takes place in the world. He said he had never seen any of the Milo Jovovich movies. But he's played the games. But he said he loves the games. He worships the games. Um, to me, this is the way. This is the way. If we're, if we have to make $80 million video game adaptations. Okay. This is the way. I don't know if the movie's going to be good, but it's like, turn your IP over to someone who's like, I have an idea for this.

1:18:49I have my own vision. You know, Alex Garland is doing it with Elden Ring. Um. Phoebe Waller-Bridge is doing it with Tomb Raider. Is that true? Is that officially happening? Sophie Turner is playing Lara Croft. It's good casting. Um, and, Death Stranding. A24 is going to adapt that game with, I think, Michael Sarnoski, who directed Pig and A Quiet Place Day One.

1:19:14I've pledged to get into video games. Oh my God. Okay. On the Ringerverse. You did. With Mal and Van. You want to play Elden Ring? I think that's between you and your family and your screens. I don't know how I'm going to do it. Yeah. We're going to start with Fortnite. Oh, yeah. Really? Yeah, because there's a one battle after another skin. And so we'll be playing it live. Are you serious? Yeah, we're doing that, yes. September 23rd, 1 p.m. Pacific, everybody. September 23rd. Yeah. Put on your, you know, appointment box. So you're going to play Fortnite? Yeah. I mean, Jack explained it, what it is to me, but I don't really remember.

1:19:52Okay. But yes, I will be doing that. But that's the only video game that I will be playing. Okay. it's a real if we have to do this then okay and like I hope you guys have fun if it's cause comic book movies didn't start out this way where it was like it's the realm of auteurs and I wonder how long this era will last but while it's happening I'm happy about it but I'm a little bit like this for you the way I feel about Greta Gerwig doing Barbie and then Narnia and it's like what if instead Greta Gerwig and Zack Greger just made their own movies. I did. I mean I said almost exactly that to Zack and he was like don't worry my next thing is original I've already written it.

1:20:35I'm really excited about it and it's a sci-fi movie. You know I don't. And he also said that another movie that he's very excited about that he wrote took place in Gotham. He did. He didn't say that to me but he did. Okay. He did say that. Yeah. I mean that's fine. People should do whatever they want I suppose. Dude I don't really want to watch video game movies just like I don't really want to play video games, but that's fine. They're making Devil Wears Prada 2 and, you know, Wuthering Heights with Charlie XCX. So I'll just be in my corner and you be in yours. My corner is in the Conjuring house.

1:21:13So it's still the same house? No, well, we're in Pitsdown now. Ed and Lorraine, it's the same house. They're still storing all of the evil objects. Inexplicably keeping all the demonic, possessed objects from the previous Conjuring movies in their own home. So they relocated them to a new... No, they just live in Connecticut and they have like a basement of... Okay, but so they still live there. Yes. But this movie is not about them? Yes. It is about them. This is apparently... So why did you say it's a different house? It's a different haunted house. The house that they are de-haunting is different.

1:21:45They live in the same home but there's a new family that is haunted. In each of the Conjuring films, it's a new family or a new group of people that are haunted. And Ed and Lorraine Warren who are paranormal psychologists need to go explore and solve and defeat the evil force that has taken over this family. The Conjuring Last Rites is the new movie, reportedly the final movie in the Conjuring franchise, zero percent chance of that happening. It's the ninth Conjuring movie, if you can believe that. Nine? Along with all the Annabelles and the nuns. The Curse of La Llorona, two nun movies, three Annabelle movies, and four Conjuring movies.

1:22:22And this one draws heavily from Annabelle 2. Okay. Maybe this is the 10th, actually. Is La Llorona part of The Conjuring? Yeah. Okay, so there have been 10, I guess. Directed by Michael Chavez, who's directed a few of these. Yep. Story by James Wan, who came up with The Conjuring franchise. Although it sounds like this will be his last one. It sure does, thanks to some reporting from Matt Bellany. Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga are back. Vera Farmiga, her neckline gets higher and higher every movie. Yes. The Wikipedia page does not include La Llorona. Okay. On a list of... So maybe it's not officially a part of it.

1:22:58I'm just... That is a Chavez movie. I did not see it. You didn't see it. I didn't see it. Because...

1:23:07Ed and Lorraine, their daughter is growing up in this movie. She's a teenager. Judy. Okay. Judy is experiencing some of the same visions that Lorraine experiences. Intrusive, psychic sensitivities. Tough break. But she's haunted. She's just mentioning. She's seen no signs of this. We've seen no signs of this before. It's been with her since she came into this world. A really rough birth for Judy. Where a demon was present. Demon was present. Not the power out. Judy is born stillborn, and yet Lorraine prays her back to life with prayer. Doctors like, it's out of my hands. Lorraine just keeps saying Heavenly Father.

1:23:48This movie, Last Rites, I don't know whether I had a head injury for the other Conjuring movies, but this feels like a particularly pious film. A faithful film. Yeah, kind of. It was a little bit more trad wifey than I was expecting. It's very slow. It's like a two hour and 15 minute movie. And I would say the first 90 minutes are just kind of like, will Ed and Lorraine take this final case or not? So it's a long time getting to the place where you know we are getting that. And is that, are they not taking it because it's work life? It's got a bad ticker. Oh, it's not that they're worried about their daughter.

1:24:30I think Lorraine is starting to worry about that. It's not like a work life ballast situation. But she's not technically a Ghostbuster. It's Lorraine and Ed are still like, that's the family business, Judy. I don't even know what Judy does for work. Judy's, she met a guy. Yeah. And he wants to marry her. But she's a teenager. No, she's 20-something. Yeah, she's in her 20s. Okay. It's also 1986, you know. Yeah. Okay. So, she wants to get married, but she's starting to feel literally ghostly hands on her shoulder. Okay. Ed can't eat lasagna anymore. Nope. Incredibly bad beat. His diet has been completely changed.

1:25:01Yeah, he's going to like red tablecloth Italian places and being like, can I get like chicken on the salad? Yeah, with dressing on the side. So that's really not ideal. And, you know, Lorraine, she's a little kooky, I would say. Lorraine, she's a little eccentric. Okay. She has encountered several demons face to face. Okay. This is something that is a part of her life. She, I don't, I don't know if Vera Farmiga is just a weird gal, but the energy, she brings a great energy to these movies, a very believable energy. Yes. But I choose to believe that this is how she really is. Okay. She's pretty consistently, if you've seen Bates Motel.

1:25:43Yeah. you know if you've seen The Departed if you've seen Running Scared the Paul Walker vehicle she's always a little haunted to me I guess so yeah but that's part of the charm yeah and Tessa Formiga is her sister yes Taisa yeah but she's like 20 years younger than her

1:26:04I thought this movie was pretty bad oh that's right no spoilers I'm on episode 3 gotcha is she on Guilty Age Guilty Age yeah another Gladys Yes. Her name is Gladys. Yeah. What do you think of the name Gladys? It wasn't on my list. And this weapons is sort of like a, maybe a setback if it gets some international. Okay, but I think it's a nice name. There is a world where you could say Aunt Gladys is actually Gladys from Gilded Age. Just she keeps replenishing herself. Incredible take. These are both Warner's properties. So this is going to be great news for Paramount. It would be dope if the last shot of Gilded Age ever is just Aunt Gladys.

1:26:43like popping up on a train. I mean, the Aunt Gladys prequel is rights itself. Conjuring the Last Rites, not very good. And it is incredibly successful. It opened to$80 million over the weekend, which is the third highest horror movie opening of all time. First of all, movies are back. Have you guys heard about this? Yeah, we have. Yeah. You know. $83 million over the September weekend? Mike and Pam just breaking us off. hit after hit. Yeah. Seven consecutive $40 million openings for the studio. Good for them. In 2000. You know? And will one battle after another make$40 million? God, I hope so.

1:27:25What do you think? What do you think? Just predict it. They're working really, really hard. This will air on Monday. On the 19th. Okay. The 15th. Well, they're pushing all the premium formats pretty hard. All of that's sold out at least in Los Angeles. They're selling it. They're selling it as an action movie. Do you have your tickets? Going with him to the city walk. Oh, I guess I'm not going, huh? When's he going to see it? No, it's a good point. It's a good point. Tough break for me, though. If anyone listening has a spare Wednesday night ticket to one battle after another, I'll buy it off of you.

1:28:01Yes, it will. I believe in Leo, and Leo is pounding the pavement. Leo is out here. he is leaving Oasis early but he is talking to people. That's because he's got to get sleep. I'm sorry about that. That's his fist bump inadvertently. That was beautiful. I was just last rates real quick. So Conjuring movies I go for two reasons. Jump scares and production design. Like you know they do a nice job where like you know the second one is my favorite. Well that's why I asked about the house. I was like that's a nice house. Until the you know all the demon stuff. Well the second one is in England. The second one is in England.

1:28:35The second one is beautiful. It's set in the 70s and it's kind of like Second one is in a cold town. The first two were both, I think, very good. Yes. And then, you know, I actually, if I remember, I think I like one of the nuns. I'm not a big fan of the nuns. But this one, it just takes way too long to get going and there are 17 characters and you're like expected to care about any of them and you just don't. Like, there's eight people in the haunted house. Let me ask you a question. Are you scared of mirrors? No. I mean, I, like, I don't need that many around. What if your in-laws gave you a very heavy wood-carved mirror with three creepy babies carved into them?

1:29:17Well, my mother is actually going to try to do this at some point. I think maybe the fact that I live in Los Angeles and she lives in Atlanta has smoothed this out. But I definitely slept in some great aunt's tiny wood-carved bed. and there are definitely angels credit and it has a matching. And one day your mom's going to be like, your bed is ready? Yeah, she's going to be like, when are you going to pick this up? When is it for you? And it's really very, very creepy and it has a mirror. But it's not like an old-timey mirror. Okay. Well, there's a lot of, I would say that the scares don't really work in this movie.

1:29:52Agreed. So there's a new creepy doll named Susie who does some cool shit, but it's kind of like they play the same note over and over. This mirror is a portal to demon land. and then Annabelle makes an appearance spoilers she does but as like Five Nights from Freddy the doll you know like big Annabelle shows up you know this is probably not is Annabelle the one that claps or is that the Babadook or what's going on you know our friend Gilbert Cruz used to do that to me in the office of New York Magazine like 15 years ago that's the only reference I have which one is it it's not that's not Annabelle Annabelle doesn't clap does the Babadook have the clap it's Babadook yeah Babadook I think that the problem with this one is that they just never get like a really scary thing I guess it's like scary-ish when Judy is possessed sort of but yeah there's a spoilers for The Conjuring last rites I know we were trying to preserve I really wasn't but I don't care that much it's been out for two weeks at this point there is a family that has been murdered in this house or in this mirror Smurls the Smurls yeah that's S-M-U-R-L's yeah and family of eight intergenerational four daughters yes that is being haunted yeah but then the family that is being that has been murdered is like a farmer and his and his mother and his wife they're living on what used to be farmland that was who's in the mirror the mirror is a farmer and his wife okay and his wife's mother Okay, and so then the family of eight just have the mirror.

1:31:32They just have the mirror in the house. And they look at the mirror. And then bad things come. The mirror is brought into the home because the mother-in-law buys it at a swap meet as a confirmation present for the oldest daughter. Haunted swap meet is a really good idea for a movie where all the objects of the swap meet are haunted. That would be good. Let's do that. It would be called Devil's Flea.

1:32:00yeah and there's like a guy who's like all I do is so no it's devil's bargain oh devil's bargain oh yeah there you go and we we follow a guy who's just trying to get cool hipster t-shirts yeah yeah but instead is being chased by shaker furniture yeah he accidentally buys an unopened box of 1987 Topps baseball cards that have swapped me but the cards are haunted yeah oh and then they all come to kill him yeah Kirby Puckett yeah exactly right Ken Griffey Sr your slashes his throat. Chris Sabo just slicing his head open. Last rites. Yeah, it wasn't that scary. Okay. I'm sorry. It's okay. I'm ready for them to retire the Warrens.

1:32:43We've also now far outpaced whatever, however legitimate or illegitimate. Like, we are now turning the Warrens into, like, Joseph and Mary bringing peace to the demon land. Like, they are just, like, the Ghostbusters and, like, the media is like, oh, it's Ed and Lorraine are here. You know, and it's like, we need to, they can retire. Ed's heart can't take it. Judy, I don't know. Do you want to see more Conjuring movies with Judy and Tony? Not really. Do you want to see more? Mia Tomlinson played Judy. She was fine, I thought. Pat Wilson. What a run. Scream King. Truly. What a run for this guy.

1:33:24You know, he figures prominently in another film coming out this fall. I'm very excited to talk about it. he's great he's very funny in that movie it's very very exciting it's a great great sequence in that movie he is married to Carolina from Succession he certainly is she is in this new Law Jason Bateman show great to see her back on screen that's a television show you say Black Rabbit Black Rabbit okay yeah Pat Wilson I mean just a box office king hit after hit for the guy I hope he got to buy that brownstone in Brooklyn for real I assure you he did. You know? Yeah. But that's, I hope that's what he picked.

1:34:00He got some profit participation. I think he's done pretty well. Between Conjuring and Insidious. Yeah. That's it. Any closing thoughts, Chris? Warner Brothers, I mean, they did it. What's the next best, most viable genre after horror right now in the theaters? Most viable genre. The Warner Brothers story this year has been a story of elevating horror or playing to the cheap seats. Was Final Destination Bloodlines, Warner? It was. Yeah. It was. That's the new line. I mean, kids movies? Yeah. I think that's right. Movies for children? Bringing them together. Yeah. And that's what weapons is. That's what I want to do.

1:34:37That's what's so beautiful about weapons. You know, it's a fairy tale for adults. Sierra, thank you very much. You're welcome. I want to say thank you to Adam Naiman for his work on this episode. Later this week, we have a 25 for 25 coming. Oh, that's right. No spoilers on that. And then after that, we have a very special... The Curse of La Llorona? no Curse of La Llorona didn't make the list why is that? we'll probably talk about it a lot when we talk about the films we chose that's why and then after that we have a yeah a physical media extravaganza that Chris will be joining right and that I will I'm gonna send one submission in absentia if you buy if you buy

1:35:2124Ks before our recording on Monday you are invited I'm absolutely not going to do that. Well, then you're not invited. I need new boots. Okay. So that's my. That is the difference between me and you right there in a nutshell. You would rather have hand-sewn moccasins than 24 gates. Absolutely right. Thanks to Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. We'll see you later this week.

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