‘Mamma Mia!’ Meets ‘The Strangers'! It’s a Movie Swap!

26:02Yeah. And it's amazing. And, you know, I was both very afraid and also like, wow, bravo filmmaking in that moment. So this was a cool movie for me to understand kind of like, you know, how composition and what you see and pacing and editing like are essential to a horror film. Yeah, it's a really thin movie purposefully, very spare. It kind of does recall some of those like 70s elevated grindhouse movies where it's like we only have so much money. We only have so much time. You know, Liv Tyler and Scott Speedman at this time were like pretty well known. Scott Speedman from Felicity, Liv Tyler, you know, had been the star of many movies up until this point.

26:40not exactly the most like deep and considered roles Liv Tyler is either whispering or screaming at the top of her lungs in this movie I had to turn up the volume so high at home the sound transfer or whatever that obviously I was just streaming but do you think I was thinking about this while revisiting it yesterday do you think the movie is better or worse if it's unknown actors that we've never seen before I I Amanda watching would think it's worse because I am curious about I have relationships to Scott Speedman and to Liv Tyler, and I'm curious about what's going on with them. And they are also like very beautiful.

27:16Right. Very watchable. And it's not that you couldn't find beautiful, unknown people. But there is something about, you know, my interest in celebrity is a little about, is related, right? Because I like, I just like want to know everything about all these people that I have, that I don't know, but who are, you know, shiny and famous or what have you. I mean, I think that that is what animates celebrity, what animates movie stars. There is something that you're trying to crack about these people. So I think using Scott Speedman and Liv Tyler, two beautiful people who you do have some sort of relationship to, like, complements the themes of the movie.

28:00Yeah, I think I agree and I disagree. Like, on the one hand, that definitely, you get more emotionally invested because you're like, please do not kill Liv Tyler. This is very important to me that the star of the Aerosmith videos from the 90s not die on screen. On the other hand, I do think that the movie has such a kind of out of nowhere quality that it's the only thing that makes it feel like Hollywood product. Everything else about it, it's very, you know, it's pretty slick in terms of how it's made and it's very professional. It's not like a cheapo movie, but because of the kind of the resistance to sharing really very much information at all is totally its magic trick.

28:36It's part of what makes it such an effective film. You know, you sometimes get taken out of it when I'm like, Scott Speedman is like the most handsome guy of all time. Like this is like a little hard to accept. Oh, it wasn't. I know, I'm sure you enjoyed it. Yeah. And Liv Tyler, like being very beautiful and then changing into her 2007 plaid shirt, which I also laughed a lot at. Yeah, that was nice. I thought about wearing a plaid shirt and then I was like, I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. Not a plaid guy myself. It's back. It's back. Yeah. Excuse me. It's back. Indie Sleaze is back.

29:09All, you know, et cetera. That's how I know you were having dinner with Yassi Salak last night. No, that's just the internet. Once again, I, like everyone else, am on Instagram. You guys are so excited about Indie Sleaze. The other thing about the movie, Bertino never made a movie before and tremendously confident in the filmmaking style and also confident telling the story the way that he wanted to. Apparently, multiple people were offered this movie in the year after he sold it and Universal didn't want to let him direct it. I think Mark Romanek, the music video director, was going to come along and take a shot at it, but he wanted it to be like a slightly bigger movie.

29:43He wanted to make it as a$40 million movie and they didn't want to. And it worked so much better. And there's a couple, there's a lot of interesting academic writing about this movie, especially when it began to emerge as a cult hit. Some of the writing is sort of like, there are two ways of looking at horror in the aftermath of 9-11. One is that the kind of like viscera of the torture porn era is this manifestation of us watching these epic tragedies that cost so many lives and that there's kind of no way to cope with the immense pain that so many people were feeling in the country in the sense of like disillusionment and sadness.

30:20And so the only way to kind of push through that is like revenge and like gore. And then there's another aspect of it that is sort of like, this is a movie about being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Right. That's what that's what a lot of the sort of criticism hones in on is the randomness of violence in the world. And that sometimes you can just get hit by a car driven by a drunk driver and that's the end of your life. And like there's no way to control that kind of tragedy in the world. And this movie is kind of about that. And it's killers motivations are fascinating because they are like a nothingness.

30:55They are. Yeah. It's not even a nihilism. It's like they have their own mission, but that mission is born of just violence. and just the kind of amusement maybe. But there's not a lot of, they're not laughing, gleeful killers. They're not, but they do seem to be getting something out of this psychological experiment that they're inflicting upon this couple throughout this night. Yeah, though they really, they wear the masks throughout. They don't get the reveal. And I did, you know, watching, there is a climactic scene where the closest, an explanation of sorts is finally given. And it's daylight also.

31:29So and as I was watching, I said, I was like, oh, they filmed it where they take the masks off. And then they realized in edit that it's more powerful. You think so? You never see their faces. Well, I watched it and then I read online. I mean, you know, this is half-baked Internet research, but that that is the case where in edit they discovered that it makes more sense. There was just something about the cutting and the way that the people are like, they're not in the frame that they, you know, that they would be. I think that's totally right. The right decision and like a cool understanding of what your film is achieving and editing is filmmaking, too.

32:04So that's great. But so you purposely don't get anything of the characters except of what's in their masks or or them from behind and the strangers, that is. and there is you know one incredibly scary thing scene I think where the the man in the mask like sits at the table and I guess he's reflecting for a moment but for the most part otherwise they're just like running around or on the hunt they're not really people they're just sort of chess pieces they are they are masks yeah and your inability to understand what they're doing is the point and what's scary about them. Yeah, they're really interesting avatars for this idea too, because a lot of horror movies, as we've talked about ad nauseum in the last 10 years, go to great lengths to psychologize intent and rationalize trauma and why they lead to these terrible acts, which is kind of valid, but is really overdone, I think, as a style choice now.

33:07And would absolutely ruin this movie. Oh, that's what I was going to say. So the movie, Bertino says that the Manson family Tate murders were a big inspiration for this. But I find that very unsatisfying as an idea. And I think maybe he realized in the edit, perhaps, that to remove as much motivation and even humanity as possible would be valuable. Because we know a lot about the Manson family murders now. And while they were maniacal and conspiracy-laden and driven by a mental imbalance and drug use and all of these things that were happening inside of that cult, there was intent. It was like, we're going to this house on purpose because these people live there.

33:46Whereas this is just like, who's home? And also we're like writing things on the walls and there is some sort of mythology. Yeah, it is. I mean, I do think, can we talk about the ending? Can we get there? So the explanation or like the final moment, whatever reason is given is, you know, Liv Tyler says like, why are you doing this to us? And the woman who I believe that's Gemma Ward, the model, one of the two women is Gemma Ward and I think it's her. She's still in a mask and she says... Yes, doll face. Yes. Because you were home. Which is definitely like the best possible explanation that the movie can give because there is no...

34:29Because you don't want an origin story. You don't want a real reason. I think no answer would have been better, personally, still. Because I still think that is the one moment where it tips and it is... I mean, there is an answer. The answer is just like... randomness, but that, but even, even having an answer kind of steps on the total, the not knowingness, which is the most terrifying part of the movie. And if it had been completely ambiguous, if you don't get an answer, then you're just like, what the fuck? Which, yeah. If they had said nothing in the face of that question, that might've been fascinating.

35:06Yeah. I mean, I think the movie itself, it seems to be this kind of rejection of a lot of horror movie strategy in the previous years where like a lot of horror movies are basically showing the transgress, especially slashers, they're showing the transgressions of other people. Right. Like you had sex or you were mean, you were a bully or you were, you know, if you look at Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm Street and the way that teenagers do things they're not supposed to do and then they get punished for it. And this is not that. And I guess you could say maybe like there's, this movie is trying to explore something about the fractured nature of this relationship and then this is a kind of outsized aftermath of two people who are not able to make it work.

35:47And, you know, it's just a psychological exploration of a broken relationship. I think that's one way you can kind of see the movie. But it's still using like core horror examine, core horror tropes to get you like emotionally scared, you know, making sure that the person is staying safe or not safe. So I don't know. It's like, it's a pretty rich movie for an 81 minute slasher that ends, somewhat unsatisfyingly, but very bleakly in a way that is kind of inspiring to me. You know, the Universal Studios would put out a movie, a super short, grisly horror movie. It's not that. I mean, I've seen worse.

36:25Yeah, I guess the final kill is very... Actually, I watched the unrated version. I don't remember. Maybe it is more intense than what you saw. The unrated version, particularly the final deaths, are very, very... You don't actually see a lot in the version that I saw, or the version that was released. I mean, that kind of does change things a little. But that is also at the end. For the most part, it's just an hour. Like, you know, Glenn Harrington gets his face shot up. But like, whatever. That's you don't even see that much of it. It's not that scary. You know, the rest of it is smoke detectors and cell phones and and like running and and smashing car windows.

37:01It's not really that bloody. Do you get scared when you're alone in your house? Um, not anymore. um I did though though I should because like I was like I don't live alone anymore even when Zach's gone I'm with the two kids um but then I'm responsible for them so maybe I should be more scared and we also still live on a hill our last house that you you remember we lived on it on a hill and you had to have like come upstairs and so there was this sense of like once you like you were trapped up on a hill there was like no escape sort of and um we did like someone came up to the stairs once and was like they weren't trying to like break in it I don't know the person wasn't well but um and I was home alone and that was very scary and I was thinking a lot about that moment while watching The Strangers so yeah I guess but no for the most part I'm just like yeah I can do whatever I want I feel awesome it's funny I think one of the things that the movie does so well is that it isolates sound particularly that first knock that comes from the man in the mask that is not the the girl we first see her um that it's the very small simple choice like a single knock at a door at 4 30 in the morning yeah can be the most upsetting thing that could possibly happen to you yeah and there are like a couple of needle drops in the movie that also kind of unnerve you as you go.

38:27But for the most part, like there's not a lot of score. There's not a lot of ambient sound. There's hardly any dialogue in the movie. And it holds you pretty tight. It communicates space really well because you do feel immediately that sense of there's nowhere to go. Like these characters are trapped and they even like they do go outside, which is just like really stupid. But, you know, as these things are, But I will say, you know, I know I know it's the that like don't do that is a core part of horror movies. And they're always supposed to make mistakes. But I even found like the mistakes that these characters make, whether it's like going outside or it's Scott Speedman going on a drive at five.

39:14Well, that's the one that's stupid. But I thought it was to make me think Scott Speedman was the guy in the mask. It is. It's a little bit of just a movie moment. So I just rewatched this movie called Nightmares, which is like 1980s omnibus horror movie. And then the very first sequence, it's a 20 minute short film basically about a killer on the loose in a small town. And a woman, a mother of two, is a smoker and it's past 11 p.m. And she really wants to go get cigarettes. And the killer's on the loose. They've just watched a news report in their home. And she's like, I just fucking need cigarettes.

39:54I just have to go get cigarettes. And she leaves against the wishes of her husband in that scene. Obviously, we know what happens to her after that. So it's like, that's just a trope. Well, totally. I got that too. But even as I was like thinking through the structure and like the notes, and I do have notes for Scott Speedman's character. But that one, I was like, oh, I see why the movie did that. Because I wasn't sure. I was like, and I think I ultimately landed on the side of, I don't think it's him because the movie is doing such a specific job of having him, I'd like he's on screen or the man in the mask is on screen for such a long time.

40:29Yes. Yes. So I credit them for that. And I was like, I don't, I don't know if that many people watching this or taking the puzzle pieces apart as they are. I do that also when I'm scared. I'm like, if I focus on the mechanics of this, then I won't have to be terrified and sit in these emotions. Yeah. I just think leaving my. No, I mean, you can't do that. non-fiancee at 3.30 in the morning to go get a pack of cigarettes in the middle of nowhere. That's just not really on my finger card. He just really wants to drive. This is another question I have. I just, so, I do think the film communicates the space of the house and just outside the house and that they're trapped and just that, you know, it implies that someone is just on the other side of the door and you really do feel that in such an intense way very well.

41:18I'm not clear on the geography of the rest of the neighborhood. And it's like, you see houses that are like way closer. You see streetlights. Like, are we really in the middle of nowhere? I don't, I'm that, I don't know. It's unclear. It's unclear what state they're in, right? Do we even know what state they're in? It was filmed in South Carolina. And it did, it did. I wondered if it was like Atlanta adjacent because the houses at the beginning looked familiar. Okay. Or, you know, like I was style. How would you have felt if you'd been proposed to at a wedding? So this is one of my notes. I mean, the biggest note is just like no one, but especially not Liv Tyler, is saying yes to that ring.

41:57That's very pathetic. And if your family has a vacation house, it's like... I mean, it's a cabin in the woods. Well, it's... Handed down from generations. It has a fireplace. And, you know... And then we've got Joanna Newsom on vinyl. That's true. And they have like a, you know, a rifle in the closet. So and a lot of shoes, a lot of shoes for a vacation house. So maybe they also have an heirloom. I just, you know, in the Sex and the City, when Aiden proposes with like a pear-shaped diamond. I do remember that. Yes. And that's like a tough and it's a tough look. Okay. What's the ideal shape for a diamond?

42:37Not pear-shaped. And also this just looks like he bought it in a gumball machine. The diamond that I got for Eileen when I proposed is in the shape of Babu Frick. So I'm really proud of that. I like him. Yeah. But it was naturally occurring. You know, it wasn't like no one shaped it into Babu. Rosamund Pike. And now you see me too set you up at that. Oh, that's beautiful. No conflict there. So, yeah, that ring, that's sort of a non-starter situation. and then it seems like the proposal is impromptu. But it isn't because he has this plan back at home. It just seems like he's a little bit of a fumbler.

43:15No, it seems like, I can't tell whether he was planning to propose at home. Oh, at home. And then he was just too swept up in the moment. Yeah, so he proposes in a parking lot. He does have the ring on him, though I thought that was just sort of like a security safety thing. Do you remember the weekend that, so my husband proposed to me after a group vacation that we all took. And he said that he was just like hiding the ring in different parts of our vacation house. Yeah, I did a similar thing. Throughout the week, which is psychotic and wouldn't help at all. But I tried to keep the one before I proposed, like in my breast pocket as often as I could.

43:51Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For as many hours a day as I could without it seeming dangerous. Which is like probably the only foolproof way to make sure that. Well, I was like, this is the most valuable thing I've ever been near in my life, times many thousands. So I'm fine with him having it on his person, but it does seem like the parking lot proposal was like a little rushed. Yeah. And all we find out is that she just says, I'm not ready. Isn't it so encouraging when you see such beautiful people also be so fumbling at romance? I think that's also one of the tricks of rom-coms where it's like, yeah, it doesn't matter if you look like Julia Roberts.

44:25It's still fucking hard. And then, so that's tough. You think you should have died because of that? no. Okay. And I don't think she should have died either. I do think like, the going outside. I don't know what he's thinking. Yeah. It's like, it's a real defend the perimeter situation. You know, like I just, you gotta, also half the time she's leaving the door and the door is not locked. I was like, ma 'am, what are you doing? Here's a tactical question for you. Someone comes into your home, an intruder, you're well within your rights to kill that person. Mm-hmm. Okay, all right. I mean, to defend yourself.

45:07Legally speaking, yeah, okay. Within your home. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not saying on the property. Yeah, okay. And Scott Spiedman is like, definitely hiding.

45:18I'm not saying that's a just law. I don't even know. I don't even understand the law. Okay. I am saying that that is a true fact. If they come after you, you can defend yourself. The CIA defunded the Super Bowl. And Sean is your defense lawyer. Did I get this law wrong? Okay, keep going. I don't think you have the right to kill the person. You have the right to defend yourself. And Scott Spiedman is like, I'm going to see if I can kind of bob and weave here a little bit. Like, I'm going to see if I can kind of dance through the raindrops in the movie. Like, he's not willing to kind of get after it.

45:50What's he so afraid of, you know? He's going to get killed anyway if he doesn't take care of this situation. This guy's wearing a fucking mask over his head. It's just a real, like, barricade the home situation. With what? Just with furniture? Furniture? With other... With that Joanna Newsom vinyl? With like other, you know, blunt instruments? I don't know. Start dragging. They don't even try to block the door. This couple had awesome taste in music. Yeah. Merle Haggard, Gillian Welch, Billy Bragg and Wilco. Yeah. Where are these records coming from? Richard Buckner? Who's putting them on? This is what I'm saying.

46:24It's like I do feel that the... Well, at some point, the strangers start putting them on, which is also funny. That's right. That's right. So they also have great taste. They're like, now it's time for Merle Haggard. I mean, they're working with what's there. yeah but you know Mama Tried is like the closing haunting jam you know it's kind of that's a tough one and so this movie made 85 million dollars great it did launch a sequel which came six years later which Bertino wrote and I assume was rewritten and had a different director actually the director I believe was Johannes Roberts who just directed Primate which came out this year but then two years ago Rennie Harlan started making these new Strangers movies which Katie loves and I love Katie but they stink Madeline Petsch.

47:03Katie has a letterbox profile so you can let her know by letterbox. I'd like to follow her. Yeah, if she'd have me. She also has some notes about the app design, but you know, that's her. Well, she knows a lot about apps, so I understand that. Letterbox, they're doing great. They're crushing it. But you know, Katie's notes might be helpful. How many stars would you give this on Letterboxd? Three and a half? Okay, pretty good. Yeah. Not bad. Positive? Yeah. Bertino has had kind of an odd career. I would say I thought he was going to be one of the most significant horror directors of his generation.

47:33And he's worked, but has never really kind of reached the mountaintop again. He made a movie in 2014 called Mockingbird, which I never saw. He made an A24 thriller called The Monster in 2016, which was kind of a little seen. 2020, The Dark and the Wicked is probably his second best feature, which is a similarly unnerving domestic horror starring Maren Ireland that Sierra and I both really like. And then last year he made a movie called Vicious, which was not very good, very disappointing. It went straight to streaming. Well, it's tough that, you know, this movie is about doing as little as possible, right?

48:07There is no Gilded Lilies, and that is what makes it successful. So it is really hard to revisit the well when spareness is the signature of the achievement. It is. It is. It's so interesting that a movie like this becomes IP to me. I think it's the whole point of it is that it shouldn't, it should just sit alone on a shelf and be a scary thing to happen. 2026, baby, you know. Everything is IP. You feeling good? You think it's been a good year? Yeah, awesome. I'm thriving.

49:07Let's pivot to Mamma Mia. This is another 2008 film, directed by Felidia Lloyd. It's based on the 1999 stage musical Mamma Mia, which is of course built around the epic pop catalog of ABBA. Katherine Johnson adapted the show for a screenplay. It stars Meryl Streep, Pierce Brosnan, Colin Firth, Stellan Skarsgård, Julie Walters, Dominic Cooper, Amanda Seyfried, and Christine Baranski. What a cast. Benny Anderson and Bjorn Olvaeus from ABBA composed the score of this film. And the story is such. Donna, an independent hotelier in the Greek islands. I also read that on Google. I laughed. preparing for her daughter's wedding with the help of two old friends.

49:53Meanwhile, Sophie, the spirited blonde daughter, has a plan. She secretly invites three men from her mother's past in hope of meeting her real father and having him escort her down the aisle on her big day. I ask myself this. What did I think of Mamma Mia? Yeah. I've never seen a film be so good and so bad simultaneously. And I completely understand the phenomenon of this movie. I'm actually willing to join the cult, but it is extremely important to talk about the myriad ways in which this movie also kind of stinks. And it's such a fascinating paradox. They are woven into the text of the film, not unlike the songs of Abba themselves.

50:36It's a fair point. That's a good place to start. It is a film that is very aesthetically and spiritually in tune with its source material, being the incandescent, inescapable, wonderful, and also really stupid songs of ABBA. Yes. The pop junk genius of ABBA. Yeah. Which is like, I would say a group that I, I wouldn't say I have no relationship to it, but they were never my guys in the parlance of Marc Maron, my guys and gals. But if the actual song Mamma Mia comes on or Dancing Queen, or if you're at a wedding and a song like that hits, like you dance. Like they're fun. My daughter has gotten very interested in the music of ABBA for a variety of reasons.

51:20And like Money, Money, for example, is a song she like knows the words to. Her friends at school sing the song. Okay. So, you know, tremendously infectious as legible to a four-year-old as to a 43-year-old. Yeah. It persists, right? Like they continue. Isn't there a big ABBA show in Vegas right now? I think there was also some hologram type stuff. For a while, I haven't really investigated what's going on there. Maybe we can go in April. Let's look into it. Abba Las Vegas, because you know, 2026, you know who else loves Abba? Who's that? Craig Horlbrecht. Oh, I didn't know that. Or if he doesn't love Abba, then it's a running joke on the town.

52:00Right. Right. No, he does. It's his favorite group of all time. Okay. Ultimate Abba tribute. Abba Kadabra. Wow. Is that Abba with magic? No, I don't think so. but we'll see anyway you know Abba's fine they have a lot of songs that are very fun that's basically how I come to this movie the movie itself has an ingenious premise yeah ingenious yeah the actual direction of the film is some of the worst I've ever seen it's quite poor this is Felidia Lloyd's first movie and her last movie I believe and she's a theater director and a season theater director celebrated has had a lot of success in the theater it has so many famous people and so much charisma and so much natural winning charm she directed The Iron Lady so Meryl Streep had such a wonderful time okay that tells me a lot thank you for filling in that gap another movie that is like so poorly directed and Mamma Mia Here We Go Again no she didn't she didn't no old Parker old Parker did you're right which is an important thing because she very clearly was replaced for a reason yeah But the movie is so winning and everyone is having so much fun.

53:15And it's in Greece. They shot on location in Greece. Skopoulos. And it's a movie that while I was watching it, so I'll set the scene. I had a psychotic movie day two days ago. Here was the movie day that I had. Okay. um i've been meaning to do our buddy tim simons and matt walsh's uh podcast second in command yeah and they talk about movies with presidents in them i've been telling him for for a year that i want to do the show i told him i would do lincoln yeah i hadn't been able to do it for months and months and finally i was like i'll do it on this wednesday okay so at 2 p.m i watch lincoln i'm watching lincoln yeah eileen texts me and she's like if you're gonna do mama mia we want to do it with you.

54:00Alice loves Abba. We're trying to get her into even more live action movies now. I was like, okay, if you guys get home at 4.30, I can watch Mamma Mia from 4.30 to 6.18. And then I got to drive to Warner Brothers to go to moderate a conversation for one battle after another. So they get home at 4.30 on the dot. They walk in. Alice sits down on the couch and we fire up Mamma Mia. We watch Mamma Mia. The whole time I was like, I wish we had a bottle of wine open. Yeah. And I couldn't do that because I had to go and do the one battle thing, which was amazing. And, you know, honestly, one of the most fun things I've done in a long time.

54:39And, you know, so to watch, first of all, I watched three movies in a row, which is something I do often, but maybe not in quite this way with this level of like compact stress. But Mamma Mia is not a movie where you really need to be like locked into the performances and character motivations and the dynamics of the filmmaking. It's a hangout fun movie. It's a movie that like you should just get up and dance during. Yeah. and you can kind of like walk around and go get a snack and pour yourself a glass of wine. So like immediately when it was over, Eileen said to me like, we should probably just like watch that again in a slightly different way.

55:09I didn't have enough time to do that before this episode. But I do actually, like the movie was such a theatrical sensation. But to be like locked in my chair, I think would be maybe not my favorite way to see this. And I contrast that with The Strangers where I was like sitting in a movie for 79 minutes, like what is going to happen to these people? This is a very different vibe. it's so loose movies are very rarely this loose yeah I mean it is really built around the songs and the song performances especially the last 30 minutes where it's just like there's two lines of dialogue before they segue into like take a chance on me or whatever and you're thrilled because Julie Walters gets her moment to do take a chance on me it's very funny and the the movie is is very knowing throughout out, which is something I like about it.

56:00But that's when it really just winks of like, OK, like, how are we going to get all of these songs in this in this puzzle? So I think, you know, people seem to really like concert films and people seem to really like movie musicals. And that's what this is. And it is so like song and set piece based that everything in between I agree looks and is completely silly and underbaked and not even like there's not really any acting going on here. I think Amanda Seyfried is giving it her all. She's giving it her all. She's the best part of this film. She's the best part of the movie. She is by far the best singer in the cast.

56:42She is very game for the part. You can see this is her kind of like realizing that this is her moment right. Shortly after Mean Girls I think it's right before In Time It is right before In Time and Jennifer's body I was going to say and she's kind of like she's going for the brass ring she's playing Meryl Streep's daughter she's in a movie with Meryl Streep, Colin Firth, Pierce Brosnan and Staten Skarsgård and Julie Walters and Christine Baranski she's going for it and she's giving a very sincere and winning performance it's the kind of character that she's very good at where it's kind of dewy-eyed for two straight hours her character's motivations And your Thank you.

57:19are they coherent? If you were in her situation, Is this how you would want to find out who your dad is? In a kind of like, you know, match game style revelation? Are you? And again, this gets back to like, should we be getting married? She's 20 in the film and she's marrying Dominic Cooper. Yeah. I gotta say, I think his character is quite logical in the film. Okay. I think he makes a lot of good points. He's got a lot of concerns about the way in which this family operates. And he's taken with her, obviously, and he wants to marry her. But he's like, right. This is not a parlor game for you to figure out who your dad is.

57:54We're getting married, lady. Yeah. So I I can't say I really relate to any of her decision making throughout the process, whether it is. Yeah. Whether it's getting married at 20 or inviting three men that she found in her mother's diary to her impromptu wedding. Would you read your mom's diary? No. Good. I really, this is, we don't have to, you know what the theme of this episode is? What is it? And like what we've learned is that we like don't actually need to know everything about each other. Yeah. This is one of the, this is one of my, you know, my Italian therapist would sometimes be like, this is very American that you think you, and it was often like that you think you need to know everything or share everything.

58:43You don't, we don't need to know everything. I don't need to know. I know, but I'm an emotional detective. This is something that matters to me. Are you? Yeah. Yeah. When you want to be. And sometimes you're also an emotional block. No, but you're talking about what you're experiencing from me. I'm talking about what's inside. I think that you can either investigate or ignore what's going on with someone depending on what suits you. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Is that like a baseless accusation? No, I just, I'm like... Like Harvey Weinstein? Like, who are you referring to? No, no, no. I'm just like, if you need to do something and...

59:20and you need to do it, then maybe it doesn't matter what the other people feel. Yeah. I mean, that is actually how the people in this film operate too. Yeah, it is very true. I mean, we all have to sometimes. Yeah, yeah. Block out the bad. Yeah. Bring in the good, right? There you go. Feel the flow, as they say in Happy Gilmore. 23 songs they squeeze into this one hour and 42 minute movie. Uh-huh. Kind of amazing. It's great. It's a great choice. Yeah. Just like jukebox it the fuck out. The movie knows what it is. And it is really, famous, accomplished actors who can't sing on vacation in Greece, performing the songs of Abba while slightly hungover.

59:57I was looking for the internet research that, like, I don't know whether I made this. I don't think I made this up, but I couldn't find it that this movie Meryl Streep and Christine Baranski and Julie Walters just treat it as vacation, which, like, you would hope. And that there was not, like, a lot of, like, scene work, you know, or prep going in. end they were in Greece and at least for the, you know, on location scenes, they also obviously constructed a set at Pinewood. But I think everyone was having a good time. No doubt. And that also, I think it infuses the performances. You know, there's something also kind of like amazingly unglamorous about the performers in the movie that I really appreciate.

1:00:44They are beautiful actors. but you know the bulk of the cast is in middle age or older and the men are like a little bit flabbier than we're used to seeing them and everybody's a little sunburned and it does kind of feel like they've had a couple of glasses of wine while performing and you just it's so unusual to experience a movie where everyone's kind of like yeah we're just winging it you know like we're just and now we're gonna sing this song over here like it doesn't it doesn't feel like a conventional hollywood movie in that way which i found very charming i think it really like because it's a feature and not a bug of the film and it seems like they almost designed it to be that way or at least the performers knew what they were doing.

1:01:22As I say, Amanda Seifert is kind of like, she's going for it and she's like looking sincerely into Pierce Brosnan's eyes and trying to, you know, ascertain the truth of her heritage. But everybody else is just like past the Cavassier. Right. Like here come some people out of the one lagoon that we could film on. Yes. This is my one note. It's like they didn't really use like the full breadth of the island. how would they have done a better job of that? I don't know. It's just, it's like this, it's the same pier, you know, and the same one lagoon. One thing about movie musicals, I want to talk about them just a bit.

1:01:59The reason that I have not seen this film and I have not seen Les Mis and that I have not seen The Greatest Showman. Have you seen Les Mis, the musical? I have, yeah. It's not my favorite. Yeah, because you don't believe that the French people should be free. I don't. I don't. I think they should be imprisoned by a fascist state. No, I think there is something about the tone, color, and execution of modern musicals that I find a little off-putting. I 1 ,000 % agree with you. It's not across the board. West Side Story, Spielberg's film, I think that's one of the best movie musicals of the last 50 years.

1:02:37I think there's like... Yeah, but that is adapting an older musical. And I do think the source material is very important. in that. I didn't love In the Heights, but I liked it. It's not across the board for me. Obviously, we did not enjoy Wicked, and we've talked about a great many movie musicals on the show over the last 10 years. But I think many of them are just that at a certain point, the source material becomes... The books and songs of modern musicals don't sit well with me. Just the writing and performance style? The writing and... And like this song style, like, you know, people feel that the songs of Wicked are very good.

1:03:18And I find that a little strange. And I don't. That's not true. I find a couple of them are good. Defying Gravity is good and popular is fine. But they are like a musical style all of their own, which is a little saccharine, a little showy. Like the arrangements are of a piece. I'm by no means an expert in this field. So I'm not going to. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to pretend that I am. There is something about the onset of the Andrew Lloyd Webber era of Broadway musicals that is not really my flavor. And everything feels since then to be a kind of like escalation in terms of the scope and the intensity of what the show is supposed to be.

1:04:00and I would much prefer Sondheim but Sondheim is almost never adapted for movie musicals which is an interesting thing. Like obviously Linklater is in the midst of doing Merrily We Roll Along but I mean Meryl Streep was in Into the Woods. She was. Another show that I don't really care for that much but that had more to do with Rob Marshall than it did the actual show itself. So I I skip those movies in part because I'm like there's just a very low likelihood I'm going to like this. Yeah. When this movie came out, I had no professional obligation to go see it. Right. Eileen, not really an ABBA person, so she wasn't like, I want to race out to go see this.

1:04:39And so it just got by me. But it's so interesting how big the movie is. Right. I was going to say it, but it was such a phenomenon. I just, I kind of missed it. Yeah. Like I was stunned to learn that this movie has made $610 million worldwide at the box office. So it's way bigger than... internationally than it is in the U S and like, it's big. It made$144 million domestically. Like good job. That's very big. That's very big. But I, for a while it was like the most seen movie in the UK. I mean, I'm like exaggerating, but it's, it's stats and performance in, in the UK alone were as sort of singular, like weather blip that you just can't really explain.

1:05:22I mean, you've got in the movie, you've got an Irish, English, and Swedish. kind of icon. I mean, all three of those actors in their native countries are massive stars. Pierce Brosnan obviously was 007. So I think that attributes to it a little bit, right? It's a film that's also set in Greece. It's a very European movie in many ways. But$610 million, I mean, put some context on it. If you don't count animated Disney movies or live-action adaptations of animated Disney movies, this is the third highest grossing movie musical in the history of movies behind Wicked and Wonka, which only just came out in the last two years.

1:05:58Yeah. That's a crazy stat. I know. That's why I've been like, I can't understand how you haven't seen this movie. I don't know. It just never got it. I don't know. I don't know. Can you name a single friend of mine who you think would be, besides Juliet, who would be like a massive fan of Mamma Mia? It's not about being a massive fan. Am I a massive fan of Mamma Mia? I know about it because it is such a strange, it was so successful and such an anomaly and also stars Meryl Streep and Pierce Brosnan and Colin Firth and Stellan Skarsgård singing ABBA on a boat. I don't know what to tell you. I mean, when you Google 2008 movies, what are the first movies that come up?

1:06:40This never works. Google sucks now. God, it's unbelievable how bad Google is. 2008 movies, Wikipedia. Come on. I mean, even if you just look at the most successful films from that year, that's the thing is it was the Dark Knight and Iron Man year. I saw both of those movies and I also had time for Mamma Mia. Once again, I have it all every day. Yeah, they truly can. WALL-E, Crystal Skull, Twilight. I saw Twilight in theaters. So did I. You know what would have gotten me to go see Mamma Mia in theaters? Putting vampires in it. Okay. If you put vampires in your movie, I will check it out. Don't roll it out for Mamma Mia 3.

1:07:13That's going to happen, right? They keep talking about it. I do. I meant to revisit the plot of Mamma Mia 2, which I saw in theaters at the Arclight. with my mother and my husband. But I think that they might have some casting issues without spoiling Mamma Mia 2. Some decisions are made. But vampires is a way to solve it. Let's go back to the cortex of Mamma Mia. And now it's time for Moments That Matter, a new segment brought to you by State Farm. Life moves fast. It's full of unexpected twists, big wins, and little surprises that stick with us. But that's totally fine because you can rely on State Farm to be there.

1:07:47Speaking of moments that stick, let's dive into the ones that made Mamma Mia unforgettable for you, Amanda? What jumps out to you? Meryl Streep singing The Winner Takes It All at Pierce Brosnan at one of the most beautiful cliffs overlooking a Greek church on the hillside that I've ever seen. I think about this scene once a week. I'm most elated that you have now also seen this scene where Pierce Brosnan just stands there looking confused. Yeah, that's me on every pod, for the record. I know. while Meryl Streep does a pretty credible job. Really good. This is her best performance in the movie.

1:08:25She's really good and it's clear that she's thought about that this is the only song and it's one of Abba's great songs that actually communicates any character development. It's very much in her range too as a singer. Yeah. They don't go full disco on it which is okay. It wouldn't be appropriate to the moment but I do think we're missing something from The Winner Takes It All but that's okay. listen, this is about interpretation. And the fact that the winner, Meryl Streep singing The Winner Takes It All at Pierce Brosnan on a Greek beach is like plot development. Of a kind. Yeah. It's an incredible achievement.

1:09:05And it's just, it's something you don't see anywhere else. You know, they have never done it since. No. Although doesn't the song make an incredible appearance in Bergman Island? Yes. It all makes sense now. Yeah, and I told you at the time, the second greatest use of The Winner Takes It All, ever. An amazing song. Great pick. When it comes to moments that matter in real life, there is no script, but State Farm has your back. With State Farm, you can focus on what matters most, knowing you're prepared for whatever comes next. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. What other musical performances do you think are great in this movie?

1:09:39Christine Baranski gets her Christine Baranski moment. That scene is so goofy, but she's so winning. But yeah. And again, at some point they just start engineering things for characters to get their particular moment. And there's something about, you know, she's so much taller than everyone, everyone else dancing. And the like, you know, committed, like slightly campy version of, of her performance that like really tickles me. And you do spend the whole movie, especially now, you know, post Good Wife, post like Bransky Renaissance number four or whatever. You're wondering, like, why did Christine Bransky say yes to this?

1:10:22This is beneath the regal Christine Bransky. And then she finally like gets her moment. I mean, it is silly, but they're all silly. You know, the first time you get the wide shot of Dancing Queen and everyone on the pier. I was like, well, this is this is an important song. sure who else I mean Amanda Seifert is good but that's kind of that's not really the point of this what stayed with you I'm trying to think of what is the best Sophie song in the movie

1:10:56I Have a Dream maybe yeah opens and closes it yeah that might be the best I mean she has more vocal range than most of the people in the movie too so what is the song is it S.O.S. when she's singing when she's singing on the beach to Dominic Cooper what is that song it's not SOS because I think Pierce Brosnan sings SOS yes you're right you're right which is terrible yeah which I mean it's tough news what does she sing is it Gimme Gimme Gimme A Man After Midnight is that it maybe yeah yeah it might be that one she she has a few good moments it's fascinating that they basically don't let Stellan Skarsgård sing but they do let Pierce Brosnan sing three times I mean maybe it's not a let maybe it's a could convince to maybe Selen Skarsgård had a better understanding of what was happening and what he could do I really liked him in this movie and I really liked that they let him be kind of like a charmer kind of using his rapscallion persona but certainly not being like a mean bastard which is how he's kind of typecast in the last 20 years.

1:12:10Pierce Brosnan though, an Irishman who can't sing. That's a bit of a concern. He sings like two lines in Our Last Summer. Skarsgård. Yeah. Yeah. And first, what does he sing? He also sings in Our Last Summer and then he sings, let's see, there's one more that he gets. Mamma Mia heads are pulling their hair out because of our lack of knowledge of ABBA and the songs performed in this film. I have it right now. I was doing my best. I was holding on for dear life watching this movie. I was like, another song? So I think that you were talking about the Sophie song is Lay All Your Love On Me. That's it.

1:12:41Yeah. Which is a classic one. Let's see. There's also Harry apparently sings on Take a Chance On Me. I'm just looking at the song list here. And yeah. Why is there not any good choreography in the movie? The men in flippers dancing on the pier. It's also one idea. that is, and I did sort of wonder, they could get at some point whether it's just kind of like resources and who they could get because they did film the outdoor scenes on location in Greece. And it seems like they had a pretty good budget, but maybe they couldn't get professional dancers onto the island at the numbers required in order to really, I mean, what kind of choreography are you looking for?

1:13:30Good. I mean, the good kind. Did you think about the fact that also made me like no one can really dance. That's okay. I think you can have a kind of supporting crew of dancers behind. I... And they did have kind of multiple extras and additional performers in the film. I'll be honest. When you have... This is another thing where modern musical choreography and dancing is a little too performative. And... What do you mean by that? Like too many people milking it and really just hitting every move really hard. You know, I'm like doing a Fosse, Fosse, Fosse. And like only Beyonce is Beyonce, you know, and only Beyonce's dancers are Beyonce's dancers and everyone else.

1:14:13Like Wicked, there were a lot of people posing in the background and it just took me out every single time. I was like, no, this is not your movie. Just let them have their moment. Well, but no, it's not. It's not there. It's like there is step up. And I think step up is really good. And when you're in the movie about the dancing. But when you're in a movie about two witches trying to, you know, navigate friendship and fascism, then, like, keep the hands in, you know? Lovely. Thank you. Yeah. I really like what you did there. Thank you so much. So I politely disagree with that. There is also there is one moment I noticed, I think, during Dancing Queen where Bransky and Meryl Streep are wearing chiffon skirts, not unlike the West Side Story skirts.

1:15:01And they do like one Jerome Robbins like a sashay moment. Yes. And that's good. But I don't know if they could have kept up that choreography for the whole number. So we're meeting people where they are. Yeah. Let's talk about Meryl quickly. OK. Loves to sing. She loves it. This is such an important movie in her career. Yeah. Because, you know, isn't it? It's almost immediately after Devil Wears Prada. Devil Wears Prada is 2006. And she's really like, is she in her 50s when she's made this movie? I think, yeah, mid to late 50s. I Googled it. And it's just an absolute box office draw. Yeah. You know, the greatest actress of her generation in her 50s is commanding multiple hundred million dollar movies.

1:15:46Yeah. again completely anomalous there's this is not there's no other precedent for this really I would say in the history of Hollywood most actresses as we have talked about we just talked about this in conversation with Rachel McAdams are like discarded by the industry obviously she's cut above but the fact that and also in a female led movie about the fashion industry it's not a romantic comedy but it's not like a bunch of men fighting each other and then in a movie musical about ABBA Yes. You know, it's not, she didn't like Shirley's Theron in it and be like, now I'm gonna like, you know, get a gun and start fighting people.

1:16:22That's right. That's right. She's held guns in movies before though. Meryl? Yeah. I'm trying to think. I'm trying to find her filmography, but once again, Google, I just, you know, need a reference. Let's see. Meryl Streep with the kangaroo. Does she hold a gun in that one? I don't know what's going on. Cry in the dark? Yeah. The dingo. You're thinking of a dingo. Yeah. I'm sorry to Australia. We haven't been yet. You're going to have to revisit or watch that film for the Meryl Streep Hall of Fame. That's fine with me. Now I'm, okay, I finally got it. So let's see. Hit us with this era, this 10-year period.

1:16:54Postcards from the Edge. She sings way more than she holds a gun. She does. Loves to sing. Postcards from the Edge. No gun that I recall. Some, you know, does some drugs. Death becomes her, no guns. Some law of violence though. Bridges of Madison. Yeah, but like funny violence. Bridges of Madison County. I don't remember what. Does she have a gun? I don't, I mean, they're in Montana. No. I don't know. I don't know what goes on there. I'm not an expert on the - No, she wields a camera. Okay. Adaptation, no gun. The hours, flowers. It was really a lemony snicket. Don't really know what's happening there.

1:17:28Is a lemony snicket a thing for your generation, Jack? I don't know what that is. Okay. Well, congratulations on - A series of unfortunate events. Yeah. A series of children's books that were adapted into - Oh, yes, yes, yes. Movies and then a television series. Yes, familiar with that, yeah. Lions for Lambs. she plays a very powerful journalist who is modeled on who is the awful New York Times journalist who um wrote the pieces in support of the Iraq war Judy Miller Judy Miller she plays like kind of a Judy yeah Judith Miller I don't know whether she's Judy or Judith she's Judith okay so I don't I don't think that Judith Miller had a gun though no she does have a series to give others she has a series of showdowns with Tom Cruise okay so also in 2008 is doubt and then 2009 is Julie and Julia and it's complicated just to continue the box office.

1:18:17That's an amazing stretch. No guns in any of those. But some of my greatest films. Forget about the gun question. That's not important. If you just replace Angelina Jolie with Meryl Streep in the film Wanted, is it better? Which one is Wanted? The one with James McAvoy. She comes in. She's like a secret society assassin. Angelina Jolie, Wanted. Oh, I remember this one. Yes, sure. Okay, let's do this with salt. Meryl Streep's salt. Meryl's salt. You know what? Meryl does have like a regal Russian quality to it. Like you could see her in the head. Think of the accent work. Of course. And also if you needed to do any flashbacks, then you have one of the many Gummer daughters who are also actresses who could credibly play her.

1:19:04That's right. Yeah, there you go. And then Wanted 2 is solved if you need to do a prequel. Set it right up. Yeah. Yeah. Wanted to, I mean, salt to, excuse me. Right, right. Meryl Streep is hard to talk about. It's kind of like talking about Coca-Cola on a warm summer day. It's like, just good. Just always good. Never, well, the movies are not always good. Is she good in this? Discuss. I think it's an interesting conversation. I think she's doing her absolute best singing and half the performance, song performances are good and half are bad. I would say that she's, I guess she is doing her best singing.

1:19:34She's not a great singer. She keeps doing this. Obviously, then she does Florence Foster Jenkins. She does Into the Woods. Yes. she does Florence Foster Jenkins is so funny though because it's kind of a riff on how she can't really sing that well you know like that's kind of the gag of the movie here's why this works Mary Poppins Returns this works because she's having fun and you can feel it while watching her it doesn't really matter if she's like hitting the note in the ABBA song no one's listening to ABBA Ricky and the Flash that's what I was trying to think of my guy Jonathan Demme that's a beautiful movie then she's playing there like a Chrissy Hines style like rock front woman.

1:20:12She loves music. She loves to sing. Is she good? Yeah, she's good. I think so. I mean, yeah. The whole movie is operating. It's kind of orbiting the idea of camp. It's not campy because there's nothing inherently campy about Abba. But there is like a kind of like drag quality to so much of what's happening with the older characters in the film. Like even with Julie Walters and Christine Baranski, they're kind of operating in this like it's like Rocky Horror Picture Show for people who like to go to like Cabo to all like to, you know, full service resorts, you know, like is there something like really...

1:20:51Oh, you're above full service resorts at Cabo. No, I've been, I like them. I like Cabo. If anyone is listening, I'm available. You will make yourself a hotel influencer yet. I know, you're doing your damnedest. I just don't know. That's why I bring up this idea of like, good versus bad and the binary of it is just an impossibility with a movie like this. Well, I don't think that this is a movie where it's so bad that it's good. No. Which is often a category that many, many people enjoy. And not an idea I believe in. You and I don't like it. Yeah. You and I don't respond to it. This movie is doing, with the possible exception of, you know, some of the the camera work and the and everything that happens.

1:21:39The blocking is so bad. Yeah. Like in every scene, I'm like, why is the camera here? You know, and you built a whole villa in order to be able to put the camera wherever you want. And you're in Pinewood and you seemingly have a lot of budget. So I don't get it. But with the exception of that, like the movie is doing what it wants to be doing. And I think the performances are what they want to be. They're not, it's not that it's bad or it is bad, but it's not unintentional. Yeah, I feel like it, they do know what they're doing, right? There's not like a confusion about what kind of a movie it is.

1:22:11I love the, in the closing credits when they do a song over the credits and then do another song over the credits. There's a kind of like, you don't even want this to end. You just want to keep glugging Rosé while this movie goes on and on and on and plays another song. arguably the highest point of the movie is the credit sequence when they've stripped away all pretense of trying to tell a story. And it's Meryl and Christine Maransky and Julie Walters first in like full 70s ABBA disco gear. And then the men come in too, even more amped up in their bell bottoms for Waterloo, which is so funny.

1:22:51And they're all, you know, like to introduce Waterloo, it's like Meryl kind of like a half drunk at the camera being like, you want one more? Having a great time. It is, they're just doing karaoke with like great lighting and like on a music video set. and you're like yeah I would probably if they did three more songs I would watch them. I just saw a note that you left in the outline which is it's very interesting that Fernando is not included in this movie and they just at some point we're gonna have to watch Mamma Mia 2. Oh Have I never told you how Fernando No I know. Everybody on Letterboxd was like this movie actually stinks but 2 is like crack like it's so good.

1:23:28So now I feel like I have to watch 2. 2 and the way that Fernando is used into is is breathtaking. OK, great. It is. And I won't say anymore. The number one song when I was like, what are they going to do Fernando? Yeah. Well, I like I I think I maybe did start applauding at the Arclight like alone when Fernando showed up. It's really and I've definitely, by the way, told you what happens before on a podcast and you don't know. No knowledge of it. Yeah. I'm emotionally detecting, but not information. Yeah. Anyway, I would like to do karaoke with all of these people. It seems really fun. That's just a perfect way to kind of snapshot what the movie is.

1:24:04It's just like really fun karaoke with actors that you enjoy. It's just not a bad idea for a movie. And maybe there should be other movies like this. You know, we get a lot of self-serious rock star biopics. Yeah. But the reason that Queen was so successful is because people were like, I want to fucking hear Queen songs in the movie theater. I want to know what it was like to be at Live Aid. Why Bohemian Rhapsody. What did I say? You said Queen. Sorry, Bohemian Rhapsody. Yeah. was so successful because of the songs and because of this, you know, portrayal of this band who we have a big relationship to Abba, very similar.

1:24:35I know, I guess this is, Michael is going to be like this. Michael is going to be, it's not going to have any sense of humor. Right. But it's, it's, it's a biopic. It's not. Well, that's what's nice about this is that it has nothing to do with the, I still don't know all the names of the Abba people. No, neither do I. And I don't, I don't know what they're up to, what they're up to. I don't know if they're living or dead. should we call them I don't know will they answer I don't know they're in Sweden I feel like they have a lot of money yeah I bet I bet they do good for them yeah so I don't I just know the music and the song the movie just uses the music in like a funny and not hagiographic way you know it has fun with the music too it's like these are silly if you could do your own Mamma Mia what country and what artist oh okay Okay.

1:25:27Well, the location is such a huge part of this, but I guess there's no reason it's Greek. Right. That's true. Other than that's where they want to be. What country? I can say that in terms of that part of the movie, it's top shelf. Like Abba in Greece. Yeah. I don't think you could have done better in terms of who the target audience for the movie was. I mean, I'm just thinking of like other Mediterranean islands at this point. You know, it's like if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But music wise, what would I do? I got to tell you, I really have been hitting like Rihanna radio on Spotify recently and having the time of my life.

1:26:06Rihanna is an artist who would be very good for this. Yeah. Because every song is a party. That's kind of the vibe that you need. Yeah. So Rihanna like in Sicily, like where do you want to go? No, I mean, I guess if we're doing Rihanna, then you do Barbados, right? Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah. We should just develop this movie. That's a golden idea. I'm going to put that in the back of my mind. Okay, you have a very important question at the end of this conversation. Now it's time to play. And this, you know, goes into this movie ends. Honestly, this movie has more balls than The Strangers because in the sense that there is no resolution.

1:26:41We don't know. The movie does not confirm who the father is. This movie understands that the greatest fear and the greatest power lies in not knowing. Yes. I understand that people just want to play who's the father like Maury Povich understood before me so now it's time to do you know who the father is? Is there a definitive truth? So Felidia Lloyd and Catherine Johnson have shared their opinions of who it is I only learned this yesterday but I would like to know what you think I only learned this yesterday and I don't know whether I agree I feel that Occam's razor is Pierce Brosnan yeah of course I've always assumed so I just as a logical person yeah I will go he gets the most backstory he gets the most clarification of connectivity right to Meryl Streep's character you just kind of buy that it's him even if you don't know and he also is just so like over the moon for her that it makes you more like comfortable with that idea.

1:27:50And also he's very invested in the idea of giving away his daughter and he's very interested in that. And so like you're kind of rooting for that. I don't know, were you rooting for it when you were watching the movie? You're supposed to be rooting for it because ultimately they were in love and it was like their missed connection or whatever and they wind up getting married. What's the story when he's explaining how his wife married him to confirm that he was a fool even though he went back for the woman that he loved. I had some notes about that little line of dialogue. What was it? This woman was going to ruin her life to prove that her husband-to-be was an idiot?

1:28:24I mean, I think that just has like a little bit of like divorced aftertaste, you know? Okay, okay. That it's like, he doesn't think very highly of the decision-making process that either of them went through. And also, I think they probably said rude things to each other for 20 years. I had an amazing conversation with Eileen after this movie where I was like, where are you at on Pierce? Yeah. Because she's not a big Bond person. he's you know he's still very active making a lot of movies he was just in Thursday Murder Club um I was like what do you think about him and she was like well he's obviously incredibly handsome but he's not my style of handsome and she said I also just don't think he would be interesting oh which I thought was a unique way of taking out Pierce Brosnan yeah but does she know that he lived like outside Hanalei for like 25 years in on the north shore of Kauai and you could just see him at that.

1:29:15Yeah. He was like there forever. And you would see him at that. Yeah. I do think he sold the place like fairly recently. Where is he? Where is he now? I don't know. He also has like a hundred million dollar property in Malibu or something. I didn't I haven't checked on that in a couple of years. It's weird that you know this. Well, the Hanalei thing is like he's very open about it. So if you ever go Hanalei Bay is one of the most beautiful places I've ever been on vacation in my entire life. And if you're Googling like would recommend it to anyone. What to do in Hanalei. They're like, maybe you'll see Pierce Brosnan at the coffee shop.

1:29:47So he became sort of like an ambassador. He's been photographed there, et cetera. And then I think when I was Googling Pierce Brosnan in Hanalei, the other absolutely insane like$100 million spread in Malibu came up. And there's like a lot of architectural, you know, he's done a lot of architectural digest, which is how I know this. I see. Okay. Shout out to Kristen Stewart debuting her purchase of the Highland Park Theater. in Architectural Digest. Amazing stuff. I'm so excited. I drive by it all the day. It's five minutes from my house. Yeah, I know. That's our preferred home state across the street.

1:30:21Oh, it's like so crushing when that place closed, even though it was not a very good movie theater when it was open. I definitely, I saw a Super Mario Brothers movie there with a bunch of children and many mice. So it needed some work. It needs work. But it's so cool that she's coming in and buying that movie theater, which for us is extremely local. Yeah, okay. So you know a lot about this. Who's the father? I'll just say, I think it's Pierce Brosnan. So I also thought it was Pierce Brosnan. What I learned is that the director and screenwriter think that it's Stellan Skarsgård. And the reason they think that is then...

1:30:53He's got that super Swedish sperm. Well, and also because then he has like a Swedish, you know, he's Swedish. So Sophie has a connection to the music of ABBA. That was their reasoning. I thought that was really stupid. But then I was thinking about it. But that assumes that the world of the movie knows that the ABBA songs are being sung. Like, that's just such a weird thing to say. I didn't say that. But then if you think about if you think about the order, I believe that according to the diary, the chain of events was Pierce Brosnan, Bill, Harry. So Pierce Brosnan, Selen Skarsgård, Colin Firth.

1:31:28And then she realized she was pregnant. So you have to assume. So if that's if those are all before she realized she's pregnant. So that's all in one cycle. Right. And so the middle person is going to be the closest to ovulation. So it probably does scientifically make sense. This has been Amanda's science quarter. I mean, incredible work by you. I've had a lot of schooling on that particular science. I do just want to say that at the end of the day, one, I do care what you think, but I do not care what the director and screenwriter think because they didn't write this musical. This is adapted from a musical.

1:32:01Well, who the person who wrote the musical should tell us who the father is if such information is available. But is that not revealed in Mamma Mia 2? I'm Googling as fast as I can. Okay. Well, Catherine Johnson also wrote the musical. Oh, okay. So let's see. Yeah. So she can decide. And I think it's different. I don't think that the bill character is Swedish in the play. Oh, let's see. Oh my God. This is just like a long list of people who have played that. Okay. This is a tremendous amount of Googling from you in this episode. He explains that he always loved her. And years ago had ended his own engagement only to find Donna had gone off with another man, Bill.

1:32:40So yet another just kind of scientifically speaking. But it doesn't seem that they reveal it. No. But the Waterloo is a part of the encore. The Waterloo performance. And the stage musical. Well thanks for sharing this movie with me. I'm glad that I watched it. I liked it. I had fun. Yeah. I do understand why it's a phenomenon. Now you know more about the world. I do. I would never be like how dare you like a movie this stupid. It's like, that makes no sense. It's a movie that obviously gives people joy. I'm kind of intrigued by two, though I have no, this is not like a Infinity War Endgame situation for me where I'm like, I need to know what happens next.

1:33:23If I never see it, I'll die happy. So it's, can I tell you, it's both a prequel and a sequel. I kind of hate that. It's really overloaded. Someone's playing young Meryl? Uh-huh. Who's playing young Meryl? Lily James. And they're in London and they're doing Donna and the Dynamos, their little music group. So she does a lot of performances. And then I don't remember what happened. I might have to watch this this weekend. Yeah. I mean, they had to make it. Mamma Mia, Here We Go Again was sitting there waiting for them. I was also thinking about how you could put Here We Go Again as the subtitle of many films and just make them much funnier.

1:33:59Just like Fast X, colon, Here We Go Again. That would just make everything funnier. Should we call this movie swap? Here We Go Again? yeah we need the film titles in there it's not good SEO I know it's not good SEO but it's good to play right in SEO is dead though as we just learned from all this googling that you did it doesn't work anymore I know it's fucking cratering the industry it's true any final thoughts about this movie? it does feel like you're a little more up to date with at least what was going on in 2008 if not the world at large so that's good I feel good I feel like we've completed a part of your education well thanks for bringing me on the journey that concludes this episode so next week yeah interesting episode I mentioned that we'll kind of watch the Super Bowl at least for the trailers we always talk about the trailers after that because they kind of roll out event movies for the rest of the year we're going to the DGAs we are so you and I have never been to an award show together and I thought that this would be an exciting anthropological experience for us how are you feeling about that I'm excited me too you know parents night out that's right and I'm crazy Saturday.

1:35:05We got to talk about parking, but, uh, I was thinking of Ubering. Okay. Well then you can come pick me up on the way. We can carpool. You can pick me up, but sure. Okay. That's fine. And then, um, I feel good. I have my outfits ready. Mine is as well. Okay. It's been dry cleaned. Oh, good. Yeah. I'm feeling good. Uh, I think the idea here will be sure. We'll talk about the results of the show, but sort of like, what does the show like this feel like? Because we don't usually operate the way that so many Oscar pundits do, where they're like attending events and meeting and greeting and, you know, what's the vibe in the room.

1:35:40I'm personally not very interested in that. Yeah. But I am interested in directors. And I also like that this show is not televised. And so I'm curious if we get a different kind of energy. So, yeah, that'll be next week. You excited? Yeah. Okay. Thanks to Jack Sanders for his production work on this episode. And we'll see you soon. Thank you.