‘Mickey 17’ and the Bong Joon-ho Movie Rankings

28:22Okay, so it would be from all three of them. Yeah, okay. Mickey 17 is not being sold on any of those facts, but you know, Darius Kanji favors darkness over light. He favors a kind of noir-ish style, a black and white style of film. And the movie is, the production design is kind of dingy cargo loader. It's a little bit more alien than Star Trek The Next Generation. You know, it's not a glimmering, cool space movie. It is a movie about like industrialization funded by a megachurch in which the proletariat needs to survive. Snowpiercer. Very Snowpiercer. I would argue, and that was what I was going to say, is like the movie to me is actually at its best and most coherent or at least flattering my own tastes when it is a little bit ominous and dark.

29:10And for example, there's a sequence early in the film when Mickey has signed up to become an expendable and he is sort of escorted by the actress Holiday Granger to go essentially have a physical and learn about the 3D printing technology, the big machine that makes the new Mickeys. And it's a little scarier. It's a little like out of the past. It's a noir drama where a femme fatale is luring him into a space where he doesn't know where he's headed. and there's a sequence very late in the film, a dream sequence that I won't spoil in detail, but that also feels kind of unnerving and a little upsetting, a little out of place.

29:51And I feel like if the movie held that tone a little more consistently, you wouldn't have this great, fun, daffy Robert Pattinson performance, but you might have a movie that kind of hangs together a little bit more, and you wouldn't have all this kind of tone spray that is happening. I think that's definitely true. It would be picking a tone. I think the two sequences that you identify, they are still a little weird. They both still have Robert Pattinson, and there are still moments of, maybe not of humor, but of, well, they do have humor, but humor is like the finishing touch. They're just strange.

30:29They're strange and in a way that is kind of funny. Yes. And that is, I think, when Bong is most effective and also funniest. Like, I don't know if his broad comedy makes me laugh. And it didn't make a ton of people in my screening laugh out loud with one great exception. but I think all of his other movies are like very wryly like observed and and deal with big problems and big ideas in sort of like a cynical funny way whether it's like the government or the corporation he is he is often commenting by being like this is weird and fucked up and the only way I know how to process that is a little funny.

31:19So I agree that if he had leaned into that a bit more, for me, for me, it's when it's slapstick is when you kind of lose it or lost me. It's funny though because there's a, my favorite scene in the movie, I think, is when Marshall invites Mickey to have a dinner. I mean, that is like, you know, when you get it right, you get it right. But that to me is like, if you were going to make a slapstick movie, if you're going to make a Three Stooges movie on a spaceship, right, Pattinson can do it. He can do it. He has a pratfall in this movie where I was like, holy shit, that's not a stuntman. You can see that it's him flipping over furniture and falling and smashing glass and convulsing on the ground.

31:59He's game. To me, the best part of that is there's some very uncomfortable singing. And then the way that Pattinson is sort of reacting to it, I burst out. I mean, it was perfect. His stomach is turning while it's happening. Yeah, that moment is just really, really funny. And it's almost like a tease for what could have been. Right. But that's a different movie than the movie that you're describing. Totally, totally. There is this sort of, like, no one should ever have to pick a lane. You know, that's like the magic of life. It's really cool that he got$120 million from an American studio to make a movie.

32:40It's more that there are moments where he gets the slapstick right, and there are moments of that noir stuff. And then there's some other stuff where it just kind of feels like they didn't get quite where they wanted to get in terms of tone. It might have just been a sense that it's a little character stuff to the movie at times. I thought Steven Yeun is a little bit wasted in this movie. He plays Timo. Mickey's sort of like partner in crime at the beginning of the film and then they both sign up for the expedition. Timo gets a more elevated role as a pilot. Yeah. And he's an underhanded type.

33:17But he kind of like flits in and out of the movie and we never get invested. And the way his story was resolved, I thought was really strange and felt very tacked on. I thought Naomi Ackie was really good. And I've been a little iffy on her. She's been in some really big movies. She's in a Star Wars movie. She was Whitney Houston. and I want to dance with somebody. She was in Blink twice. I think she's good in Blink twice, but I didn't think that movie really hung together very well. So she's had like a lot of bites at the apple. This I thought was the best. I thought she was like very sexy and very strong in a part that was cool.

33:47We don't really get to know her that well because there are so many Mickeys around. But I liked, you know, she's playing a part that like a lot of men often play and they've kind of inverted that role very cleverly. And so I liked her.

34:04I'm really torn on Toni Collette because I feel like if she's not going for it why is Toni Collette in your movie? You don't hire her for a very subtle, quiet role. I mean, this isn't subtle and quiet. But that's my point. If you're going to hire her, she's got to play a big character and she's playing some Melania-Hillary combination who's really obsessed with sauces and feeding her goofball husband sauces on camera. I enjoyed her. I don't know. It's kind of a mixed bag on the cast. I, going forward, have my eye on Anna Maria Bartolome, who we saw in Happening a few years ago. This is a very different performance than Audrey Dewan's Happening.

34:49Yes, but she's great. Yes, very alluring actress. Sure. And also kind of, she is like tasked with being kind of the normie for, like, I think she is, she's a human and she's interested in Mickey in that way, if you will. Yeah. And is sort of being like manipulated by the marshals, but is there to just be kind of like, what's wrong with all of you? Great. News that in 2051 during space expeditions, we still listen to Elliot Smith and our little cabins. That was an interesting needle drop. I didn't see that coming. But shout out to Kai. That's her name? That actress's name. Yeah, she's got great taste.

35:31Okay. She's had that wonderful tea glass that Mickey was drinking from. Yeah. Just a lot of style in that room. The food's really gross. Disgusting. Yeah, in a great way. Shands of Snowpiercer. You know the protein bars from Snowpiercer? I thought of that too. Gross food and gross eating circumstances is kind of a bong signature. He follows it through on this one. So the Korean films versus the American films. Yeah. This seems like a clear pattern to me now. This is what I wrote down. The Korean movies have a more acidic, bleak, kind of like doom euphoria at their ending. There's like a carrot of redemption or freedom that is being waved in front of the characters' faces at the end, but they're not happy endings.

36:10Like in Memories of Murder, at the end, Park is no longer a police officer. He returns to a murder site, and he sees a little girl there, and she tells him a story about a man she saw doing something there once, and then he just like looks into the camera, and it's this like, oh my God, the killer's still out there. Yeah. We're all hopeless feeling. Right, right, right. At the end of Mother, all is revealed if you haven't seen the movie and then the mother goes on this kind of like reverie with all these other women but she is also have to, has to kind of like cope and push down her feelings about what has transpired with her son.

36:40Nending a parasite is even more complicated but even more interesting because it sort of like starts where it ends where the father is trapped in the basement and the son needs to make enough money essentially to buy the house to free him from the basement, which is like literalizing the metaphor of the movie. The American movies, like you mentioned that Okja at the end does have this kind of like painful image of the other pigs. Yeah. But, you know, Nija and Okja are reunited. And they push the baby out of the pen. Yeah. And so, and then she's, they're reunited and then they have like another baby pig that like those super pig parents saved.

37:21Right. from, like, death and this holding pen. Yeah, so that's sort of like... No, that's not happy. It's kind of sweet. I mean, it's definitely sentimental and, like, you know, a little... And upsetting, but it's not... Like, there is a very dark, upsetting image of, like, of all of the pens and all the super pigs in the pens and this, like, one tiny baby being pushed out. Yeah. It's not happy. And it stays with me. I don't know what your deal is with Okja. And I just like, I really, I like it. I agree that it's broader. And like I said, it's me and Spielberg, but. I think it's just, it's very similar to Mickey 17, which I think the pacing is not good.

38:05I think there are like long stretches that don't work. It's the only crazy Jake Gyllenhaal performance I don't really get. Interesting. I'm not really a fan of it. I think Tilda Swinton is like, even though she and Bong are great friends, I think she has like misapprehended what the tone of his movies should be like even I revisited Snowpiercer this weekend thought it was even better than the first couple times I'd seen it and she's the only one who I'm like why are you why is this the tone you went for with these characters like John Hurt and Ed Harris and Chris Evans and Sung Kang Ho like they're all doing like a very kind of like gritty contemplative thing and she's doing like Margaret Thatcher on Molly it's really weird right but so that's three movie that's the three American movies where we're sitting here saying okay like the American actors who we normally like are just off no no no I don't that's not exactly how I feel like I think that some of the American actors in some of the American movies are very good like Pattinson is obviously great yeah I feel like what um he's not American very fair point uh I feel like what Paul Dano's doing in Okja is very good I really like that um I also will say and Snowpiercer Chris Evans, that's like his best performance.

39:16He gets like an actual monologue in that movie that he nails, and it's ridiculous, and in the wrong hands could go terribly. Chris Evans' Redemption Tour 2025. It's starting. We'll continue with the materialist. I never doubted his talent. I guess I'm singling out the villains. Okay, so this is where - Yeah, there we go. I wanted to go to this place, which is that, is it just that, because even at the end of Snowpiercer, the polar bear moment is like kind of a hopeful moment. It's like a little scary, but it's a little hopeful too. Is it just like, this is what Bong thinks of the Western world leadership?

39:49And Americans? I do a little bit think that that's what we're seeing. Ridiculous clowns? Yes. Yeah, I think that's fair. And we're seeing it from the inside. And maybe it's a little bit that it doesn't reveal anything to us as Americans. Or maybe we just don't like the tone. Like maybe, you know, I don't really want to, I don't really, I really don't want to watch Trump in anything. So I also don't want to watch like Mark Ruffalo, like lightly sending up Trump. Yeah, I generally do like that tone. I mean, I do like Terry Gilliam movies. I think they are. I don't love all of them, but Brazil is probably the closest comp that you could make to Mickey 17.

40:31I think that's like a five star movie. I think that's like a great film, a totally original movie, kind of invented a tone in some ways. So to me, it's not that I reject that kind of story. I do like a darker story from him and my favorite movies of his by far are the kind of like grounded genre-based ones about families and real people. That's definitely my preference on his stuff. Even The Host, which is fantastical, is very much like a family movie. But I... So is Okja. Yeah, yeah, it is. It is. You're fighting for your faith. That's good. That's great. It works on me, you know? That's great.

41:05I won't try to disabuse you of that. It's the magic of, you know, The little kid thing works, obviously. He's really good with creatures. Yeah, I mean, I agree that I never know what Jake Gyllenhaal is doing. I usually dig it. It's a rare case where I don't dig it as much. Anything else on Mickey 17? Pattinson's so good. I know we said that already, but it's kind of unreal to me. He's one of our great actors. So this is like a stupid prompt. So I hope this isn't taken in bad faith. But a thing that occurred to me while watching it is that he is literally one of the great movie actors that we have right now.

41:45But I'm not sure that he's a very good movie star. And that seems like a pedantic thing to say, but it's a little hard to hang your movie on an actor without a movie star persona. Now, Timothee Chalamet, I would argue, is also trying to do this. He's trying to be a great actor and a leading man for his generation simultaneously. This is hard to do. You know, Gene Hackman just passed. He had a real persona. I was thinking about Hackman. You know, like Denzel Washington has a real persona. Cruz has a real persona. It doesn't mean they can't skew, you know, move to different shades of it from time to time.

42:19But Pattinson is constantly reinventing himself, the way that he looks, the way that his voice sounds, his posture, his physical execution. He is Batman, but he's also the guy from The Lighthouse. Right. And so you know you're going to get a cool movie, more than likely, when you see a Robert Pattinson movie. You know you're going to get a hot weirdo, you know, and that's fine. That can be a personality, too. Right. And you know that it will be transfixing. Like, I agree with you that in terms of it's a marketing challenge, if you will. And Timmy is getting to a point where he's Timmy. Right. You know, it's one word, you know, name recognition that cut to him 45 times at the Oscars.

43:02And he's also he's doing the work. He's going on game day. He's like doing all his content. He's hosting SNL. And Pattinson's shtick is like being very confused when Suki Waterhouse like calls him on the phone. Did you ever see that clip? Oh, this is so good. She was doing some sort of video interview and like does a prank where she calls him on video and is like, hey, they asked me to host Love is Blind. What do you think? And then it's like, actually, they want us to host it together. and it's just like a minute of a half of it's really and he's just on the other phone on the other end of the phone is he in on that idea no eventually he and eventually i think he's like darling are you have you gone mental like have you like is this a prank and then when she says yes you're gonna be on the internet he's like i don't want to so it's really good but he's like he is receding right and and and being like weird and spacey and making pasta in the microwave and doing so that you can't plaster that on the on the billboards in the same way you can't sell it in the same way but you know what it is yeah it's great for us it's strange it's great it's great for us his next three movies are uh the odyssey perhaps you've heard of it who is he in the odyssey do we know uh tba is what he's listed as i don't think we know any of the lead characters beyond damon and holland okay um die my love charlie's is in it right charlie's is in it yeah She's got to be like Cersei, right?

44:34I don't know. Okay. I don't know. What if she's not playing a classically female character? Have you considered that? You know what, Sean? That's a great point. Thank you for acknowledging my expanding vision of the world. Thank you. Happy International Women's Weekend. What was it? Thanks so much. It was International Women's Day. Happy International Women's Fortnite to you. So it is the whole month. It's the whole month. Yeah. There's a lot of programming. Is there also a National Women's Month? No, we haven't gotten there. You guys just get one month around the world. The majority of the population on this earth only gets the one month to be invited to bullshit corporate events.

45:12Do those not get put on your calendar? Do they only get put on my calendar? Rest assured I get my fair share of bullshit corporate invitations. Yeah, but there's all this programming about women that they only do this month that just shows up. And they aren't inviting you. You don't have to participate. I'm an ally. I, yeah, I'm obviously not participating, but I'm more just asking that you don't get invited. Are the other 11 months out of the year international men's months? Yes, they are. Yeah. Pretty cool. Yeah. Pretty cool how that worked out. Other movies Pattinson has coming in the future, Die My Love, new Lynn Ramsey movie with Jennifer Lawrence.

45:46Can't wait. And the drama, new Christopher Borgley movie opposite Zendaya. So. Yes. If you look at his. Yes. You know, his CV. Yes. It's phenomenal. Yes. Right? Yes. It's like. There are no problems here. Stop making a problem. I'm not making any problems. There's no problem. I'm merely discussing a man's work. Yeah. And I think that I'm allowed to do that. You know, he can have it all. Kinsuke Waterhouse is really the question. This month she can. Yes. That's right. Brady Corbett, James Gray, The Safdies. Yeah. Robert Eggers, Christopher Nolan, Matt Reeves. Lest we forget he was the Gray Heron in The Boy and the Heron dubbed version.

46:27Sure. So Miyazaki, Bong Joon-ho, Nolan again. This is it. This is the guy I was waiting for. I've been waiting for a guy who's like, I'm a huge fucking film dork, but I'm also 6 '2 and very, very handsome. Right. And now you have both Harris Dickinson and Robert Pattinson. Well, he's my enemy. He's coming from my scene. So you've come around on that. You know it's like net bad. No, because honestly, if I invited him onto the show and we talked for an hour, I would be like, will you be my second wife? Right. I think that's good. Listen, we're all learning during Women's History Month. We are really learning.

47:02Okay, bong movies. Any closing thoughts? I did really like it. We just picked it apart for a while. That's why I started the conversation. It is the second best movie of the year so far pretty easily. That's why I started the conversation being like, I don't really want to do this. It's such a weird feeling also to sit in the movies. And like 15 minutes into this movie, I was both like, this is really excellent. And we just don't get movies this well made anymore. And also, I don't know if I'm totally keeping up. And I felt like I could keep up with the story pretty well. I just felt the tonal mishmash.

47:42Well, I mean, I think that that's what I meant. Like, I'm on the ride wherever it's going. But do I like totally understand? You know, a couple of other like things that were jumping out to me where there were specific structural choices, starting the movie in the middle of the movie and then cutting back to the beginning of the movie is something that happens basically on every pilot of every TV show now. And I fucking hate it. I hate that move. I didn't like it in this movie. I just start us in the story. You don't have to tease us with something that's coming when it comes in the movie because it didn't that didn't reveal anything meaningful that we didn't know from the marketing of the movie.

48:13Right. Do you agree with me on this? Yeah. I mean, my solution would be to stop watching television as I have. Well, I do think enjoying the White Lotus. it's not going to happen for me I started season two and that hotel looks very nice and I got stressed out okay you're missing out this show is getting good in the third season everyone really likes it I think that that is great for other people Severance is a little bit of a downturn right now I wasn't even going to try on Severance listen I'm watching film I believe in the cinema what about the TV show Survivor no but has that turned around for you They voted Jon Levitt off?

48:52That was last season. He was the first person eliminated, which was very funny if I'm being honest.

49:01I thought he handled it well, to be honest with you. Well, great. This season has been good. These are the only three shows I'm watching at the moment. Although I intend to watch Shrinking. I mean, you know, Harrison Ford, hope you're well after your shingles diagnosis. I don't think I'm watching any television right now. The Last of Us? Did you watch the first season of that? Sean, who are you sitting across from? Very good show. I'm watching film. I'm watching the films of Bong Joon-ho. So Bong Joon-ho, let's talk about his films. I'm going to make you rank them with me. This is a hard exercise, actually, because personal taste is very prominent here.

49:36So we're going to have to do some negotiating. You know, I just wrote down some things that I think make him special, which is that he is a very visual filmmaker, but I think he's not the sort of filmmaker that irks you and that he's not purposefully athletic. Thank you. He can see the movie very clearly in his mind, but he's not virtuosically hammering you with his style. He really leans character, theme. Those are the things that matter to him most. The camera is in service of the story and ideas rather than ideas in service of a camera. He has that perfect blend too, I think, of almost like Spielberg and Michael Hanukkah where it's like black heart, but pure soul.

50:19you know like very cynical about the way that the world works but loves people and that makes for a really unique blend there's not a lot of directors like i wouldn't describe john carpenter that way i love john carpenter but john carpenter and john carpenter loves his heroes but he's like we're in hell yeah we are in hell and i think bong is a little bit more optimistic about the human spirit I think that he thinks that, I think he thinks like the world, like we are in hell, but like kids, animals and pure souls still exist among us and we need to cherish all of them. Yes. So I think he's obviously a very political, ethical filmmaker.

51:02I don't think he's very preachy except when he is. You know what I mean? I mean, Preachy seems unfair unless you're like literally putting like a megachurch preacher as the villain of your film. That's a pretty broad stroke. But like maybe that's also the megachurch thing really just I was like, what are this? It flummoxed me. I know evangelicals, Trump, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like this didn't seem like that fine pointed of a critique. It was just I guess that. That's what we were talking about. It's like it is an outsider's perspective on Western. I think it's very easy to say, too, that Marshall and the evil leadership figures in all of his films are not just their Western analogs.

51:43But when you have American or English actors portraying them, it's inevitable that you'll make that comparison. The number one thing for me with him is that he loves and respects genre in ways that feel very similar to the way that I love and respect genre. But he does not get bogged down in the tropes. He doesn't feel like he has to fulfill the formulaic expectation of what happens in a monster movie, of what happens in a serial killer movie, of what happens in a Spielberg-esque creature-forward romp. Like, he takes them and bends them and molds them to his own design, which I think is the single thing that distinguishes him from all of his peers and makes him really in that really upper, upper echelon of 21st century directors.

52:27Well, he understands that genre can contain ideas. I mean, he understands that genre is metaphor, right? And like the possibilities of what like a monster or a, I mean, really like a lot of monsters can express and have expressed in movies and in cinema for many years. but like is not willing. He's there for the big ideas and not just for like the gross out or for like Godzilla and Kong punching each other or whatever. Yes, yes. Which was cool, but you know. I would watch his Godzilla and Kong punching each other movie. Yeah, of course, because he does it really well. He is like, he's actually, he is good with the creatures and their design and like the way they look and the way they operate in the world, which is not something that you can say for most people making creatures or sci-fi movies right now.

53:23Yeah, he reminds me, it's so hard to say this now because of what he represents to movie culture at large, but he reminds me a lot of Peter Jackson. Peter Jackson's gotten really bogged down in being like he made three Lord of the Rings movies and then three Hobbit movies. Before that, he made really grounded genre movies, a couple of really gross movies that were idea forward. He came to Hollywood, made The Frighteners. he made a murder mystery movie that didn't really work that well what was the name of that movie with Saoirse Ronan and Mark Wahlberg Lovely Bones was Saoirse Ronan? I can't remember that sounds right which kind of bombed but he was going same thing kind of going for something like trying to use the same tones but in a different register and if he hadn't made those three Hobbit movies I'd love to know what the next three Peter Jackson movies would have been sure but then you wouldn't have all of your lovely habit memories with Chris.

54:17Yeah, we had so many great Christmases together. Also, then he wouldn't have needed to let off steam just with Beatles stuff. That's been great. I have no complaints about that. I think it's like this combination of feeling that you find in the movies and the ability to execute on that feeling while understanding the history of movies. Like these are two guys who have also like watched and absorbed everything, who are also obsessed with American movie culture but are not from America. So they bring something new when they try to apply some of the tropes that were created here. His next movie is an animated underwater fantasia about deep sea creatures and humans.

54:50Now for me, this is very exciting. This is a movie he's been thinking about, I guess, for like 10 years. He got started on, I guess, immediately after Parasite, but it's going to take a long time to do. It's a Korean film. I think it's backed by CJ Entertainment, which backs all of his Korean movies. How do you feel about that? He is good with creatures. Do we think it's scary or do we think it's something I can watch with Knox? That's a really good question. I don't know. I should have asked him that. Yeah. I don't know. I'm not sure. Is it more Ponyo or is it more, I don't know, what's like a devilish grown up undersea monster movie?

55:25I mean, I guess Boy in the Heron, that's not really a movie for kids. Right. That's a movie about trauma and fire and pain. I mean, Porco Rosso, we've not watched it 5 ,000 times. Is it a movie for children? You know what? The Comp, I think, is a movie that many people have been comparing Mickey 17 to, which is Nausicaa, which is another Miyazaki movie that is very sci-fi and very odd. So if I had to guess, I would say more Nausicaa. Okay. That'd be my guess. All right, ranking these movies. Yeah. We're not doing any of the shorts. I haven't seen all the shorts. I've only seen a couple of his shorts.

55:57The challenge here is that you really like Okja and I don't. I don't hate it, but to me it is like the least of the big movies. It's not less than Barking Dogs Never Bite, which is kind of like a trial run, his first movie. More of a pure comedy. Great points are made. You gotta take care of your dogs. Yes. You have to, folks. We can't do this anymore. We can't. It's not the dog's fault. It's you. But for the love of God, I'm just trying to sleep for five hours straight at night. Just fucking manage your dogs. You think they should be muzzled? What do you think should happen? Should they be tranquilized every night?

56:41Do you let your child scream all night outside? No, you don't. I don't let that happen, but it may happen from time to time. It's not outside. We were watching the Aristocats yesterday, my daughter and I, and she was like, I really like cats and I don't like dogs. And that was a real blow. Okay. That was a blow in our household. Maybe it's because dogs are often scary when they're not tended to by their owners. It's funny that this movie, which is sort of about an investigation, is like a trial run for Memories of Murder in some ways. And you can tell kind of what animates his interest in this kind of story.

57:15But I think Barking Dogs and Everybody is like, to me the one I think I've only seen it once. It's not something I return to. No, no, no. Not a movie I love. It's good. You can see the makings of a really cool filmmaker. I'm fine with that. I'm just, I'm already mad that you're trying to put Okja next. That's so insane. You have no heart. Does Okja change for you at all now that you are the father of a daughter? In this, our month of women? I think to me, this next stage is a battle between Mickey 17 and Okja. I think those are the seven and six spots. I would agree. I would put Mickey 17 at seven and Okja at six.

57:54I just, Okja is more wholly formed to me. Neither of these movies are bad. That's not what I'm saying. No one is saying that. We did a whole thing at the top about, this is one of our great working filmmakers. We love him. You're the one who said we had to rank them, so I'm putting Mickey 17 at 7. Mickey 17 is at 7. Okja is at 6. I find that a little hard to bear, but I'll accept it because we're working in partnership. I would not accept it any lower, and I think that your heart is closed off, and I don't know what's wrong with you. Okay, so the remaining films are Memories of Murder, the Host, Mother, Snowman.

58:31Come on, wouldn't he just like breaks into the office? That's so great. Wow. The chase scene in Okja is phenomenal. It's like some of the best shit you'll see in a movie in the 2010s. Yeah. The movie on the whole, it's okay. Well. It's cool. We're taking back your father and daughter's card. All right. Number five. Five movies left. Okay. We almost should like cut to the chase and be like Parasite 1, what goes 5, 4, 3, 2. Am I right? Yeah. Yes. some people would say Memories of Murder is his best movie okay it's really good I I think it's extremely influential I think it's a great the kind of unsolvability of life is a great idea for a serial killer movie Sun Kang Ho is like amazing in this movie if Sun Kang Ho is in your movie it's probably a good Bond movie you're doing well I I feel like it's two Memories of Murder I do yeah I'm good with that.

59:31I like it. So then the order of the next few is a little trickier. So 5-4-3. 5-4-3. And we have... Parasite 1 and Memories of Murder 2. Memories of Murder, for those of you who haven't seen it, hugely influenced by David Fincher and then went on to influence David Fincher. They have this great kind of back and forth thing going. The use of Darius Kanji is another interesting thing going on there in the future for Bong. It's a confusing and funny and dark and sad movie. The cinematographer of 7. Bong, bong, bong. Bong, bong, bong. Okay, 5-4-3. The host, Snowpiercer. And mother. And mother. Now, mother has the best ending, in my opinion.

1:00:11Yes. Snowpiercer is the most propulsive. Yes. The host has probably the highest highs. I like the host the best. Do you? Yeah, I do. But I like bong in mean Spielberg mode, as we said. Which, you know, that is down to like the shots of everyone being like looking at wonder, you know, on the other side of the camera. And then it's this this animal also, you know, another, you know, little girl protagonist. It's true. And but like a real heavy dose of cynicism about the government, the world at large. That great 1950s style sci-fi movie opening pouring the formaldehyde down the drain. prescient in a lot of ways in terms of pandemics and response to illness.

1:01:05So I'm team the host. And because it does also, you know, it does that thing of this is like a straight up creature movie, but is really about a lot of other things, both, you know, political and familial. I'm not opposed to putting the host at three. Okay. This was my entry point for Bong, for sure. This was the first time I heard about him or saw any of his movies. And I didn't see Mother when it was released. It is the movie, though, that feels the most connected to Parasite. And, you know, not just because it's like kind of a lower stakes, not lower stakes, more grounded story, I should say, about a family and about violent crime and delusion and expectation of what life can be or should be, class, all these things that he's always interested in.

1:01:59Snowpiercer's tricky. I was surprised re-watching it and then reading some contemporaneous reviews and then even just like letterbox reviews of people being like, this is pretty cool. I'm like, what? Like, I think it's like really, really great. Now, the first, those top three movies, Parasite Memories of Murder and the Host are great, great, great. Yeah, yeah. You know, they're like, they'll be in the conversation for our 25 for 25, right? They're like, those are the movies you put near the top of the conversation. Snowpiercer has stuff in it that is like Michael Bay, James Cameron, like. Right.

1:02:39Incredible science, sci-fi action staging. Totally. But it's, you know, it's a taste thing. And he can do it all. And that's why he's one of our great. But you're just like, you know, you're like Michael Baylight just went on. You know, and I did you know he debuted a parkour documentary at South by Southwest this weekend? What? Yo, Michael Bay, keep doing your thing, man. Don't let the haters get you down. Also, listen, did you read the big Jim quote about how Avatar 3 is going to be the largest Avatar yet because the previous two didn't have any room for character? Well, he's got Kate Winslet now.

1:03:15He's letting Kate Winslet cook in Avatar 3 Fire and Ash. so those guys continue to be those guys in snowpiercer when they when they start pushing forward to break through with the like the the rolling tube that pushes open all the doors that shit is cinema that is crack to me that's awesome it's listen no one's denying that it's just kind of like alice and pill holding a machine gun yeah very important stuff okay so we can put it at four i'm fine with that i think it would be sort of lame also in our rankings to just have like the three American films at the bottom. Oh, interesting. You know? Well, Barking Dogs, everybody.

1:03:56Sure, but you know what I mean. I think they're tied. I think Mother and Snowpiercer are tied. I think Mother is... I mean, if I were doing this alone, I would put Mother at four. Okay, Mother at four. That's fine. I can do that. It's International Women's Month. We must acknowledge our mothers. It is about an international woman. She certainly is. She does extraordinary things for her son in this film. I think it's more like... Tell them. Why do we care? It's no piercer falling in people's estimation or something. It was a cause celeb movie because of Harvey Weinstein. When it came out, he wanted to cut it down.

1:04:35There was a big fight about that. The international hoi polloi was like protect Bong. He's falling prey to the same thing that so many American and English filmmakers fell prey to with Harvey. Harvey obviously has been completely ejected from society is rotting in prison. That's all great. The movie itself, though, still kicks ass. I'm not taking anything away from the top four. They're like either 10 out of 10 or 9 out of 10 movies here. Snowpiercer's more like an 8 out of 10 for me. Do you want to make it like a... Okay, listen. You know, my hands are like... It's a spirit of generosity here during International Women's Month.

1:05:10Women are once again being generous. Do you think like the weird TNT show, Didn't they do like a Snowpiercer show? Oh, yes. I never watched one second of that. Nor have I, but do you think people have like a... Were you accidentally reading Snowpiercer TV reviews on Letterboxd? I wasn't. They don't yet offer those TV reviews. Just miniseries, I think. Snowpiercer TV show. Let's look at some of the... Oh, yeah. Jennifer Connelly was on this show. I remember David Diggs. He was the actor who jumped out to me. This is a fairly star-studded show. I never thought to myself while watching Snowpiercer, what else happened?

1:05:47You know, it's a pretty straightforward story about a train. A lot of really good ideas. I mean, that's sort of TV and Marvel disease, which is another really great thing about the films of Bong. And he works in these genres that can be like, you know, cinematic, universalized. Yes. And they're tight ships, literally, in most cases. It's interesting that you say that too, because we're being a little critical of some of this broad political commentary. that's in his movies, especially American-inflected political commentary, there was going to be a Parasite TV series which was going to be created or produced by Adam McKay.

1:06:24Now, Adam McKay does a very similar thing, sometimes successfully, sometimes not so much, where he takes these big, obvious tropes, you know, here is Dick Cheney, here is climate change, let's make fun of how we are not acknowledging the absolute nightmare of these circumstances. The Parasite show never really came to fruition, though I have heard Bong say recently that it is not a dead property it's supposed to be an HBO show okay again another movie where I was like that is a diamond I don't know if we need any more you know it's okay to just leave something where it is and let it exist so beautifully we were talking about whether or not Parasite has the best picture belt on the last mailbag and got some pushback you may be surprised to hear the listeners of the show they have feedback can you believe that they have opinions can you believe that and we're listening to them well I'm acknowledging that they exist I think that the way that Bill sees that enterprise is that the eras change and you have to acknowledge the changing of the eras so that like is Parasite a better movie than Lawrence of Arabia it is not but in its time does it represent the greatest possible best picture winner and does it represent the kind of the world that we live in the modes of filmmaking you don't understand what I'm saying yeah I do But like, why are you explaining it to me as if I didn't just immediately say Parasite has the belt?

1:07:49I'm so I'm not sure if you had thought through it in that fashion. Why don't you just go ahead and apologize, you know, and say I was wrong and Amanda was right. I will not say that. Like, I didn't have to think too hard about it. Is that how you understood it? Does it matter? Like, I'm asking you sincerely. Yeah, probably. I mean, I honestly didn't think that hard about it. That's what I'm getting my finger under right there. I didn't think too hard about it. I mean, it's a fucking podcast, right? But if we were going to have a conversation of what is the best picture winner of all time, I would answer it differently.

1:08:27I wouldn't answer it as impulsively as I did just say to you. You know what's interesting about that one, though? I'm going to unpack it here as we get towards the end of this conversation. Great. We haven't revisited that movie yet. I suspect we'll have an opportunity to talk about it in the future. I think that... Spoilers. Maybe not. Maybe not. We haven't determined that yet. I wonder if it will be the best picture winner that we cover on this show. The best best picture winner. Oh, interesting. Over its time. And let's just, even being generous, let's say this show runs five, seven, ten more years.

1:09:02Who the hell knows? Like, will it even represent... I'm not saying it will for the record. I got like eight more weeks in me. But, you know, I think it's possible that and then and then I don't think they let 50 year olds on YouTube. Oh, I beg to differ. And when we will break that mold, you know who will break it first? Chris Ryan. I think the challenging thing about it is that there were many other movies that were worthy of winning that year. Yeah. You know, it's it's 2017 and 2019 were like incredibly stacked. And then the rest of the years, we were just like, you know, shuffling around looking for a race.

1:09:442019 Best Picture. I mean, obviously, we loved Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. We both talked about it a lot that season. 1917 was the biggest challenger to it. I wouldn't have picked that as my Best Picture of the Year, but it was a movie that I liked. I think it got a little bit dinged in comparison to all the Parasite love and ultimately Parasite emerged victorious. Also, all the It's Reply guys were a little much. And you love Joker, as I recall. That was nominated for Best Picture that year. The Irishman, which I think is damn good and definitely did not deserve to go 0 for 10. In a normal year, I would be stumping for it as a potential winner.

1:10:23Like, probably top five Scorsese for me. Is it really? I don't. I mean, I guess not when we go through because there are so many. But, like, really, really, really underrated. It was a huge fan. Little Women. And Marriage Story. I'm very curious to see how the J. Kelly thing plays out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we may look back. I hope it's great and I hope Bomback gets everything that I feel he deserves. Right. One of our favorites. But, you know, Marriage Story, that's like one of the best episodes I think we ever did of this show. Yeah. And that's a really deep, fun, cool, smart movie. The Oscars We Love LA montage finished with that Halloween shot.

1:10:58It did. And then I like almost started crying. That was very good. Yeah. Little, there were a couple movies that appeared too many times in that montage. like three La La Lens yeah I mean that montage was definitely like 2015 and later you know and that's like it did feel that way they filmed most movies here just like historically speaking yeah yeah that was a good year and so Parasite won in that year which is kind of amazing you know you could really make the case like oh another acknowledgement of Scorsese's greatness or Tarantino finally getting over the hump and getting a best picture winner or you know Joker was never gonna win but like even a movie like that which is like a billion dollar phenomenon with the best actor that's the sort of thing you normally see go for it and win so its legacy is has the power to be very powerful my favorite movie of that year okay um A plus stuff and I love all those movies so later when is the Narnia thing happening when can Greta move on?

1:11:53November 2026 Jesus Christ I mean that's fine but you know like I just Little Women was so good Greta Gerwig's two most recent movies will be the Chronicles of Narnia and Barbie. I mean, yeah. So, who among us is what I ask you. I liked Barbie, but who among us? You know, also has two sons, I believe. Absolutely. It's expensive. Definitely costs money. You know, so. Absolutely. Consider Thunderbolts, asterisk. You know? Wither Thunderbolts. What if I love it? It's not out of the realm of possibility. It basically stars Florence Pugh as a badass assassin. Sure. Yeah. And then like a lot of cute jokes, you know?

1:12:37Yeah. I don't, I, cute jokes aren't really working for me anymore. Cute jokes? Yeah. Let's bring back real humor. I need to laugh again. Oh yeah. Real humor. Absolutely. Like the Devil Wears Prada, the funniest movie ever made. What is the, what is, what is real humor? What represents real humor to you? Well, what is the funniest movie ever made to me? We're kind of burying this convo at the end of this episode. No, I'm just, I guess I'm trying to think, I'm trying to think of like what made me like laugh the most. And it definitely would have been something that I saw from the ages of like 10 and 21.

1:13:15Like Zoolander made me laugh a lot. Yeah. This is like a slight age difference between us. But there's like a, there's a run of Happy Gilmore, Tommy Boy, Wayne's World. I mean, I was going to say like Tommy, like those movies. Tommy Boy's up there. In theaters when you were 11. Yeah. It was insane. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As an older person, I have a couple of very, you know, like three that jumped to mind immediately. Team America, World Police, Borat, and Jackass the movie, all three of those. Sure. Where it felt like everybody in the movie theater was like, holy shit, dude. This is amazing. You know, like we don't, you know, The Hangover was honestly like that.

1:13:48Superbad. Superbad was like that. Superbad. Anchorman was like that. God, Anchorman. Very funny. But I feel like the most I remember laughing was like weird David Letterman skits. like at the age of like 11, you know? Again, because it finds you at the right time. Well, I know, but let's bring back humor, you know? I, why are we talking about funny movies?

1:14:15Thunderbolts and whether it'll be funny. Right, you don't want any more cute humor in your Marvel films. You want the pure comedy experience of a David Letterman sketch from 1996. I would love to, yeah, there we go. I would argue that that's actually specifically what they are iterating on, but it's just not going that well. Exactly. Incredible way to make a Mickey 17 sandwich with Thunderbolts bread today. How'd you feel about that? About the top and the bottom? You know, every day I come to work and I do my best to do my job as an international woman in my month. so next or later this week on the show we're talking about one of the great international women i would argue the greatest movie of the year so far um and a great international woman kate blanchett we're building her hall of fame which will be interesting have you started your research no so i i was literally a lot of films i was just typing kate blanchett filmography because i she's made a lot of films i mean i have seen a lot of them probably most of them i would I would argue you've seen like 80 to 90 % of them already.

1:15:25This is not a Nicole Kidman situation where you're like, what is this Australian movie? Right. Because she... So what is this? What is Truth? Oh, Truth is the movie about CBS News. Oh, no. I have a lot of strong thoughts about that movie. I'm obviously going to have to watch this, even though it's not going to be good. It is like legit a zero star movie. Robert Redford as Dan Rather. Yes. This is going to be incredible hate watching for me. I'm not a fan of that movie. Okay. She's fine in it. Blanchette, quite a CV. It's going to be a long and in-depth conversation. I can't wait for you to explain the plot of all of the Lord of the Rings and The Hobbits movies to me.

1:16:04You know, she doesn't play a huge role in those films. She has a key role. Okay. Galadriel. Yeah. Is she Queen of the Elves? I think that's right. You tell me, buddy. I can't really remember. Okay. I got to revisit those movies. Me and CR, we are going to do The Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit pod at some point. I don't know when that's going to be. Maybe when you have a third baby. Literally never happening. Will you give birth in International Women's Month? That would be fun. Thanks to Sasha Oshel for filling in for Bobby Wagner producing the show today. Thanks to Gahau also for filling in for Jack Sanders today.

1:16:38We will return with more discussion of women and their month and internationalism. Thank you for listening. We'll see you soon.

1:16:56Thank you.