'One Night Only' and the 21st Century Rom-Com Canon

28:10And it hits a lot of rom-com things right, in my opinion. I think that Callum Turner and Monica Barbaro are excellent. Agreed. I have some notes on certain aspects of what's going on with Callum Turner, but we'll get to it. The jokes are really funny. There was a couple times where I just like really laughed out loud. There was one scene where I was like, I don't know what's really going on here, but I find it absolutely hilarious. And I was like just dying in my seat. I really enjoyed it. There's one scene in particular, I should say. And it's filmed actually in New York City and in real places.

28:46Yes. And it has an actually good soundtrack for once, which is unlike most other romantic comedies, which are like the leftovers of, you know, female-centered pop light that they couldn't place anywhere else, so they placed it in a romantic comedy. Well, to that point, the movie basically, the second scene, introduces Allie, Monica Barbaro, at her job, where she sings for pharmaceutical commercials. She sings like well-known pop songs that have been rewritten for these commercials. And it's a version of Brave by Sara Bareilles. And it's really funny. It's really, really well done. And she sounds great.

29:28And they introduce it as here is the bad song from a romantic comedy that is playing and it's a little cheesy. And, you know, like Brave is, it's fantastic. But in this context, you're like, oh no, they weren't even invented. They didn't even go get like a new song. and when it turns, it's really, like, I laughed. Me too. I was like, oh, that's really smart. It's a clever way of, like, inverting a well-known trope. Yes. And a well-known song. Yes. So it's knowing, and the movie knows what it's doing, like, on almost every front. It's very aware of the genre, very aware of what comes before it, and is kind of spending the time and the money to try to make everything work.

30:17So I'm with you. I had a really, really good time. Yeah. And as I was watching, this is both an indictment and like a credit to the movie. I was thinking throughout the movie of like the different pieces where I was like trying to guess what I thought the filmmakers were referencing. I was like, yeah, well, of course I was thinking of, you know, Jennifer Love Hewitt primarily. but I thought about her again because one of the another song that's included in the movie is Only You by Yazoo which is essential to Can't Hardly Wait in the train station scene and so I was like thinking throughout like are they thinking of this from this movie that I love like I felt like I was speaking the same language as the creators and particularly the writer but I wasn't but at the same time I was like it's probably a bad sign that I'm thinking so much about all the reference points and not just like losing myself in the movie but I think as like a lover of romantic comedies in this day and age, that really good ones are so few and far between.

31:14And I wouldn't say this is a really good one. But just like wanting to celebrate the genre with other people who love it as much as you do, I think is part of being a fan at this point. And so I don't know if seeing a movie like that, you could avoid that experience anymore. Yeah. I mean, what you just described are Easter eggs. And they're Easter eggs not for a specific superhero movie, but instead for this genre that we know and love and are very protective of. and are going to try to build a, not quite a hall of fame, but an essential list for later in this episode with very strict rules because we believe in this stuff.

31:49So I think you're right. And I think some of it is that it is very hard in this day and age to make a brand new romantic comedy that stands on its own without any of the references because at this point, much like Spider-Man, and it's burdened by all of our expectations and all of the... Yeah. Like, not the fan service, but the fan acknowledgement it has to do. Right. Yeah, I mean, we're a generation, like, just so tapped into Nancy Meyers and Nora Ephron, as mentioned before. It's like, their presence over the genre is so, so heavy that you can't not think about them whenever, like, a rom-com is just, like, as an idea, as mentioned.

32:31Let's talk about Callum Turner. Okay. I mean, I'm on the record on this. What did you think? I liked spending time with him I felt the movie worked in part because he's so handsome and you're happy to spend so much time with him I didn't think he was like so convincing as a lead but I understand why he's like a working successful actor and it's because he's so handsome and you just like want to be around his smile I thought the American accent was very tough and verged into kind of fake mobster impression from time to time. I felt like he was sort of his own version of like Danny Zuko in Greece, but like Pizza Man in New York.

33:15Yeah, and I did spend some time in the movie thinking, okay, so why couldn't he just be British? And I guess that that brings in like some, you know, sort of the geopolitical arrangements and you'd have to establish that like anyone with a green card has a, you know, has to have a tracker or something. and then you're just, you're in hell once again. So easier just to give an American an accent, but we're not there yet. Totally. Yeah, we're not there. Can I ask you a question before we go any further? Because it's like, it looms over this whole movie for me. I watch everything through like my New York goggles, like being obsessed with the city in which I was born and continue to live.

33:52Like, I think the character doesn't work if he's not like some kind of New Yorker. Like, because you would have to change so many fundamental things that we know about this character. which are that's just my my bias but I think to your answer your question why couldn't he just be British well then he couldn't own a pizza shop I mean he doesn't own a pizza shop like who is this guy yeah well who is this guy who owns a pizza shop to you I'd love to know what you think was essentially New York about this character who is the most handsome man you've ever seen who gets dumped by Maya Hawk 20 minutes before they're allowed to have sex at an omakase restaurant I mean, there's a very funny joke within the movie that's meta, and it features two well-known actors in cameos being like, why is he alone?

34:41This guy's so handsome. Like, what is it? Great question. Even the movie knows. And that was one where the movie's trying to make things fit together in a way that was amusing to me. But all I know about him is that he makes pizza that looks quite good and that he's incredibly handsome. Incredibly handsome. His mom is Molly Ringwald. Yeah. He's an avid subway rider. Never getting into a taxi, that guy. And he knows his neighbors. I don't think that Callum Turner in this role as Owen screamed New York, but I felt that the writing was so invested in the city of New York as a character. Whether that succeeded, we can discuss.

35:23But even the breakup scene is like, you know, like delivered through this vessel of like, I live in a New York City building and I'm curious about my neighbor and like I see him in the elevator. You know what I mean? Sure. So it felt very present to me, but I'm also obsessed with New York. So I don't know if that's my personal bias. I accept it. I'm not sure I sat there thinking this is the most American man that I've ever seen in my entire life. Well, I don't think it worked with Callum Turner. I think of the script though, like also with the Red Lighthouse and stuff. Like, have you ever been there?

35:56No, I haven't. Oh, that's because you're... Yeah, that's because I live in Los Angeles and I'm not I'm not a true upper west side New Yorker like you. The other thing I wanted to mention about Callum Turner was the running because there is a tremendous amount of running in this movie, which, you know, it's structured. It's clever. It is right there in the title. It's one night only. It's not even a it's not even a 24 hour movie. It's maybe like an 18 hour movie, maybe 13, though. I think it's less. Yeah. Though, like, the time and geography constraints are not realistic, but that's okay. So it's a 13-hour movie, and he's got to get a lot of places and have a lot of adventures.

36:34So he is running through the streets of New York. And every time he ran, I thought to myself, we got to work on this run if we want to lock down James Bond. It was not a Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible level run. The ergonomics are... I was just going to say, he lacks the swiftness that we are familiar with from Tom Cruise. It's not tucked in, you know? We haven't gone to a running coach yet. And I got a little nervous for him in that moment. How much of it is his neck? He's got a thick neck. He's a real football player type body. To me, it was more about the arms. And the arms were going out almost like chicken dance as much as they were.

37:14And so it was his forward motion. Like I said, the ergonomics were not very efficient. So he's almost putting his elbows in like a circle situation. And he's not totally veering in a straight line. He's not tucked in, you know, he's would not win the hundred meter dash. No, he's a little all over the place. And listen, I look like a total goofball when I run. It's not a problem. And also maybe the new James Bond is not going to run, you know, maybe, maybe he's not that kind of action star. But I did have that moment sitting there where I thought to myself, this is not a James Bond run. So he's he lacks the aerodynamicness that we're hoping to find in all of our James Bonds.

37:51Yeah, I think he can get there. But I do think he would need to like shed some pounds, not because I think he needs to lose weight, but I do think he looks like he's a running back and we need him to be more of like a point guard. OK, thank you for those sports references. On the flip side, he has one of the best. We'll call it like the rom-com reaction shot. the appreciative, I think I'm falling in love with this person close up during Monica Barbaro's solo of Only You that I've ever seen. He's really, really, really good at the smile. And it just helps that he's dreamy, but they nailed those close ups.

38:31And that is a really under discussed part of a romantic comedy that he has down. It's a great point. He's very good at smiling, like very, very good at it. and it lights up his adorable little face. He is, I mean, he is an interesting one where the ears, which the script makes note of, make him cute as well as incredibly James Bond level handsome, which the movie knows. Like the movie is using him. The movie makes jokes about how handsome he is. Like he is cast because of the way that he looks. And then isn't it funny that someone, this handsome, doesn't have a date for the one night a year where you can have sex.

39:08but I really it really works and those emotional moments he can kind of play which I was surprised by I think there's something also about him that's very non-threatening even though he's like so hot and whatnot he doesn't feel like an imposing presence he doesn't feel toxic he you know there's like many hijinks throughout it where like you know this one woman he meets her in the park and then she ends up zip tying his hands to the tree and she steals all his stuff. You kind of like feel bad for him and never think that like he would be the aggressor in that scene. And there's something about him that I think is also very true to particularly like rom-coms of this century so far that felt like a familiar trope that also really works.

39:55Yeah. He is also incredibly well matched with Monica Barbaro who I just think is the most wonderful love in the world. She's got it. That haircut. I need to know who did the hair in this movie. I was envious the entire time. Her highlights looked incredible. The cut was great. It framed her face and her shoulders so well. Oh, my God. I was just staring. I loved it. I mean, she's very beautiful and very talented. And she can sing, as we learned in A Complete Unknown. She says she just learned to sing for A Complete Unknown. She played Joan Baez. She was nominated for an Oscar. I thought she was wonderful in that.

40:35and so they make use of her singing in a very funny way in this and they make her just goofy enough that again to the Callum Turner point you don't feel threatened by her it was it was very early Sandra Bullock vibes to me and it was yes and this is a person who doesn't quite have it together and clearly doesn't also she also does not have a date for her you know one night of passion a year but she's also not a total mess right she's it's and it's it's a good mix because I do feel like romantic comedies in the past decade or two have kind of swung all the way from super aggressively together woman who can't find love to total mess of a woman who can't find love And this, to me, was a happy-ish medium.

41:32Yeah, I agree with you. She's like a professional who's trying to find her way. Yes. And she has friends, and she has standards, and their meet-cute, which sets them on their path, is that he barfs on her feet. Right. And she is just like, no, thank you. I don't want anything to do with you. So she's not desperate. It makes sense. the standards and the setup, at least as it speaks to them, do work. And I just like watching her. I like her watching so much that I liked a climactic moment of romantic comedy that involves someone giving a live musical performance. I was wondering about that. But first of all, she can sing, you know, and so much of, and I knew that already because of a complete unknown.

42:21And much of my live singing allergy is the fear that someone's not going to land it, You know, and the fear that we're all sitting there together in like a note gone wrong. And it's just, it's too vulnerable for me. But I knew she could do it. And also she sings Only You, the Yazoo song, which is just a banger. A great song. Yeah, it's a really good song. Also, I think the way they introduced the music up top as a joke is sort of makes it easier, I would guess, for someone like you who doesn't like a musical number. Yeah. She has like a hang up on this guy who, what's his name? Noah? Is that his name in the movie?

42:58Ezra, excuse me, similar names. I thought the guy who played Ezra, whose name is Charlie Gillespie, I've never seen him before. I thought he was so funny. He has like a performance that I found absolutely like mortifying, but intentionally so. The musician, yeah. Yes, I absolutely loved that scene. I was dying. I thought it was hilarious. It is weird. He's perfect casting because he's playing a musician that she's had a longtime crush on and she like almost gets her opportunity. and the whole time you're sitting there at this point the sparks have flown between Callum Turner and Monica Babaro between Owen and Allie in such a way that you're like no no no no just have sex so you can't cast another Callum Turner-esque person right it's got to be the total opposite and someone who's willing to play into the comedy and he does a great job yeah he crushed that I was dying the cameos yes really good so many impressive.

43:56I was really wondering about a lot of them. Because you knew about, you knew that people were in the movie and you didn't know how they were going to be used or you were just like, oh. I was just kept being surprised to see people. And I was like, oh, why are they here? Oh, they want to do this. Like, I was just really surprised. Who were your top cameos? And spoiler, we've spoiled a lot of this movie at this point. And this is a podcast about a movie. So yeah, hopefully you see it. I mean, I mean, I think just for my own personal kaleidoscope, the double cameo of Estee Haim and Z-Way as bouncers at a club really got me.

44:32I was like, Estee is acting now too because Alana Haim famously acting in PTA movies. That was surprising to me. And that was probably the biggest one. I guess the one that was the most surprising to me, actually, or I guess the biggest one was probably Julia Fox because she had like an actual role in the movie. Yes. playing the person who sets off Callum Turner's hunt for a condom. So I guess those are the three where I was like, wow, okay. The Julia Fox one comes early enough and is intentional enough that it signals to you like, oh, okay, they're being funny. Like they've thought about this and they've thought about who they can have in here and they want you to chuckle and to kind of play along with the meta-ness of all of it, which I think was a smart move.

45:21LeVar Burton was probably my favorite Nice yeah he was great He also had an actual role in the movie Yes exactly and you know the Molly Ringwald And the throwbacks to All of the John Hughes comedies Was great Who else King Princess Nicholas Braun Who seems to show up in everything Nicholas Braun was another good one It was an eye roll one too Of course he's in this movie That makes sense But he took exactly the right part He was in it for just long enough. And then also some of the other people that Ali talks to at that party include one of Ben Marshall, who's one of the Please Don't Destroy young men.

46:01And I was excited to recognize one of the Please Don't Destroy young men myself on my own. You watching a lot of Saturday Night Live, Amanda? No, but I watched enough. I was like, oh, OK, I'm not totally on the glacier yet. I can still pick up these cameos. So that was great. a great use of stuff and a good range of ages and cultural references, which I appreciated. Do you want to do New York City? Sure. Do you want to talk about it? Yeah, I mean, it's just very present in the movie. I would love to know Travis Braun's connection to New York. Like where he lived, how long he lived there. Clearly very deeply tied to the city.

46:41I was following the subway routes very closely, curious about going to Brooklyn Bridge Park, though I did have like a really bad date during COVID in Brooklyn Bridge Park, which felt right with what was going on with his bad date. I don't remember this. I hope it wasn't that bad. I hope, I think I probably just like didn't want to repeat it because it was so bad. Okay. But it was, you know, good humor, I suppose. But the piece that stood out the most to me was at the pizza place, Claremont Pizza. Yes. The exterior shots that they show repeatedly in the movie are of the original famous Ray's pizza.

47:19Of course, that's the full title. I don't claim for it to be the original. I don't even know if it's famous, but it is famous to me. It is on 82nd in Columbus and it was the site of my sixth birthday party. So I have known it intimately for a long time. I would love to know why they selected that pizza shop because I'm pretty sure they shot most of the movie, the interiors on a soundstage or soundstages, but they clearly recreated it. I went back to confirm with pictures and everything. It looks so much like it. And I don't know why of all the, you know, what it claims to be original famous for ways throughout New York, this was the shop.

47:55I don't know if it was like, you know, a location scout who was like, this would be a really good exterior and we can easily rebuild it. I don't even know why they had to rebuild it. We can make it look like anything. But that pizza place that's living rent-free in many people's minds now. I will say that the structure of that particular pizza place, while maybe foundational to you is not like original in the sense that I thought it was a pizza place that I went to in Brooklyn Heights for a while. I mean, the interior is there are pizza ovens on one side and booze on the other, you know, and there's brick.

48:25And so I see your point and I love the consistency. Yeah, the detail of it. I was just like, this is really close to the original. Yeah. I will also say that I thought the pizza looked great. It did look good. It looked really good. Yeah, they spent and it was traditional New York style, but also slightly... I mean, I guess it's like a famous Ray's or a John's or that type of... Yeah, a slice shop. Yeah, the fanciest pizza. Were they selling slices or just pizzas? I'm assuming they were selling slices too. We just didn't see it. Okay. Do you think that that's core to a... Yeah. I think so. Okay, you don't acknowledge...

49:04Well, I'm just asking pizza places in general. Different experience. Just a different experience. I acknowledge both, but like for what... what Owen is doing. I think he's giving you slices, too. Yeah. The last hour of the movie, they traveled to 15 different places in order to try to get a condom and be reunited. And that is obviously not geographically possible. That's sort of the collateral Michael Mann's Los Angeles, but move to New York. That's okay. It's movie magic. Yeah. He was at 145th Street at his mom's house, and then he was in Brooklyn Bridge Park. Those two are far apart. the bee doesn't run at night or on the weekends.

49:42It's tough. Yeah. They also, so you have to assume that this is happening in the summer because of when the sun is rising and setting. Though the mandate and the one night only are not tied to the sun. They are tied to 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. But I will say that the sun rose like very, very early. On this day. It must have been June. Very close to the solstice. which then at this point why don't you just give people you know sundown to well you would want to give them even shorter yeah you would want you would want to do december i guess you'd want to do the shortest day and the longest night of the year and no one's thinking through this um i like it when people shoot in daylight so it's fine that they chose this the finale they're downtown and then they have to make it back to the george washington bridge and to the little red lighthouse Yes.

50:35Still within the hour? Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, she lives in the East Village. Okay. I believe. I think they even say that at some point in the movie. And then, yes, they have to make it to like, you know, 180-whatever street and the Hudson River. So you gotta get... Hard to get to. ...cross town. Also, like, are the subways running all night? Yes, they are. That's key to the movie. And they say it's like a daytime schedule, but all night? Oh, I don't know, but they have the countdown clocks. in the subway. They've replaced where you're getting off. Which I thought was clever and good storytelling, but they didn't update the subway schedules where they didn't tell us whether they update the subway schedules because there's no way the East Village, if you got to get all the way over to a west side line and then up.

51:21It's really tough. Then they have to get to this red lighthouse, this little red lighthouse, which is a real place in which they filmed the finale, which I thought was great. Again, film in real places, we can tell. is it's they still have like 30 minutes left. Yeah, doesn't make any sense. Also, why would any production schedule that for that morning? Like, why would you do that to people? Like work should be canceled. If the government has said this is the one 12 hour period per year in which you could have sex, like everyone should just be like, work's canceled. I do feel that like they did try to address this, like the babysitter issue.

51:59And like, you know, you can make a lot of money in that one night. Right. They need to address child care. They need to address getting rid of work. Sure. Like, there's just a lot of things that need to happen. Married people are allowed to have sex. Yes. So the married people take over the pizzeria. And then they do say a couple times that there's a lot of filming on this day because there's no paparazzi, because I guess the paparazzi are unmarried and need to go have sex. I agree with you that, But and again, the production starts right at 7 a.m. So these people weren't using the most of their 12 hours.

52:36Maybe they're all married. Yeah, there are a lot of holes in the mandate. Yeah. What did you think of of of the final decision of the final the ending and they're getting together but not really getting together? I liked it. I was very distracted while watching Monica Barber on each new outfit she was wearing. So at the end, she's wearing a new white outfit. And I was just trying to like take it all in. She looked great. I loved the slip dress at the beginning. Can't believe we haven't discussed it yet. I know you're interested in slip dresses right now. Yeah. She looked great, that brown one.

53:09The ending was good. I was glad it didn't end with a wedding. In my other job, talking about reality TV, I'm always advocating for like no weddings, lower the stakes. So I was glad that it just like ended with sort of like the raison d 'etre for the movie, which is sex. So that was good. Well, after a fake ending, where they make it to the lighthouse and then they decide to not have sex. And they make Monica Barbaro say the line, what if we didn't let the mandate win? Which was tough. That was upsetting. I agree with you. That was tough. And that was sort of leaning into what doesn't work about the movie at the crucial moment when they could have just had sex and then had a nice life together.

53:57And then our lesson could be that it is possible both to have sex and find someone that you love and the two do not have to be mutually exclusive, like the government in this movie has mandated to the American government. So I question that choice. And once again, this also sets up the way the film ends, which is they flashed to one year later and the mandate has still not been repealed. I don't know what everybody was doing in the year, but they were not resisting hard enough. And they're at home and the timers go off and they very leisurely make their way into the bedroom. I just don't understand the time management.

54:46Why is there no primal instinct to just get in there right away? Also, what happens if you go abroad? Like, you know, if you go to a different country, do the sensors still work? I do think that the broadcast acknowledges that in other countries, the governments have not given this one night exception. And so I think that there are some troubles elsewhere in the world. So it's a rising tide across the globe. But I don't know about the technology. We don't know who built the technology. we don't know you know what tech company is monitoring this what kickbacks they've received you know we we none of that is explored i liked the detail that you got to choose your shape like if you could got to choose the shape of your biometric good like it's like a tattoo great i was like okay so the government doesn't want you to have sex except for on one night per year but they want you to have like some playfulness with your biometric uh tracker okay noted okay Yeah, that the ending just called back my attention to the problems.

55:56Yeah, I think. But that doesn't I was still smiling when they were together in the thing. And then, you know, there's a there's a goofy dance number afterwards, which I also. Yeah, the goofiness was great. I thought was very, very charming. So, again, this movie has all of the tropes and essential elements of a rom-com nailed down, except for the one. But it's a big one. Yeah. Yeah. It's... It really... It almost felt like the jokes made it get lost in its own ideas. Because the jokes are funny, but the romance is just not there. The calm is effective. Yeah. But I'm looking for way more rom, obviously.

56:38Yes. That's a great segue into the next part of this podcast, which is building the 21st century romantic comedy canon and what actually meets our standards. I don't know whether One Night Only is going to go into it. I think it's not. I think it probably won't, but that doesn't mean that we didn't have a good time. I had a great time. I recommend it. I do. And I think it would be fun to go see it with friends. Yeah. Agreed. And there is obviously a lot to argue about as we have just argued. So I don't think it's going to go in. What is going to go in? Well, let's set some ground rules. The first one is that this is the 21st century romantic comedy canon.

57:22So we are defining that as 2001 to 2026. That means that Miss Congeniality released in 2000 is not eligible. I don't make the rules. That is the definition of the 21st century. I agree with you. I was delighted that you were starting in 2001. Thank you for being a purist. You know, here we are now. So it's like a neat 25 years. So, and it's been an interesting 25 years. And I think this is going to be an interesting task for both of us, because as you indicated, we are the children of Nora Ephron and Nancy Myers. We were maybe not quite of age when, when Harry Met Sally was released in 1989, but we saw it many times.

58:05And when Harry Met Sally is kind of the, the start of the golden age of romantic comedies in our lifetime. You know, there's the old Hollywood era, and then there are many great ones released before, but 1989 and When Harry Met Sally sets forth a lot of big budget, movie star-led, like high box office sensations of a romantic comedy. So we are very, very attuned to the 90s versions, and none of those are eligible. No, which is probably for the best for this exercise, right? really makes us stretch and think about what should be in. Because those are all so obvious. Yes. And in our definition, the 90s rom-coms are the heyday.

58:51So the films that we're working with from the last 25 years, there are some that are like kind of the last vestiges and the last grasp of that traditional studio rom-com with those stars. And then things get pretty dicey. it's been a rough 25 years for our beloved genre because after that kind of last gasps really until about 2007 2008 um when you still have renee zellweger and sandra bullock and jennifer anison kate hudson and jennifer lopez and reese witherspoon and katherine heigl who was kind of the the usher of the the end of romantic comedies yeah you know and matthew mcconaughey and will Smith.

59:36We like we know all of these stars, but they're pretty concentrated in the first seven or eight years of the century. And then it just stops. And it doesn't just stop. There are a couple of things that happen. One, I think knocked up happens and kind of the bro calm and the rise of Judd Apatow and who is the lead of a romantic comedy, because with the exception really of a Will Smith or a Hugh Grant, it was usually women, usually white women who were the the stars which is not an endorsement that's just a observation of the trend yeah and so knocked up switches it more to bro com switches it and proves that that can be a success and that also that you know men can be in these and also what the balance of romance and comedy should be in these should change now like adam sandler has been doing this his entire career and his ratio is way more comedy than romance and that works perfectly.

1:00:37So I'm not saying that Knocked Up introduced that, but it's kind of when things start to turn. The other thing that starts happening is the ensemble comm. Right. He's just not that into you. Valentine's Day, New Year's Eve. Crazy Stupid Love kind of fits in here. Kind of, yeah. I think also those two poles, like the bro comm and the ensemble comm, are interesting because the bro comm, first of all, you mentioned Adam Sandler and Judd Apatow in the same breath. Obviously, they came up together. That's sort of the subject of Funny People. But I think that's like really noteworthy that like Adam Sandler was doing this for men largely, but really for everyone for a long time.

1:01:19And I love the Sandman and his movies. I think like Judd Apatow, I think, sort of took a lot of the same DNA and like put it in a package that felt more palatable maybe for a different makeup of the audience, but they are really tied together. So that's an interesting point. But I think the source of those movies, Adam Sandler movies and John Apatow movies, like the jokes are bits. They're not situational. Whereas a lot of rom-coms, like the humor is like tied to whatever is going on. Right. I think that's not true of When Harry Met Sally. Like you think about the scene in like The Met or, you know, some of the other, like just like epic Billy Crystal lines in particular.

1:01:59it's like him just like having bits or whatever which is just you know such a testament to that movie And that's very different from a lot of the other movies I think we're going to talk about. And then with the ensemble comms, those just aren't that funny. They have a lot of the sheen and the pacing and the feeling of the rom-coms that we love. But I don't think of like, he's just not that into you as a funny movie. I think of it as a pretty sad movie. I mean, it is. And also like a sad reflection of a moment in our sociological culture where we were all just told, yeah, you just got to give up.

1:02:36move on. But they all kind of happen together and they're all successful enough that more things come out. Another interesting data point in that time is Bridesmaids, which is a huge hit and does have a romance. Yes. But is secondary to the female friendship and like female ensemble aspect of it. And I think some people feel, does it really even need the rom-com element? Can't it just be about Kristen Wiig and Maya Rudolph finding their way back to each other. Right. I don't even think of it as a rom-com. I just think of it as a comedy. Yeah, exactly. But that is also a movie that uses a lot of female movie stars and on the rise female movie stars, which is kind of the playbook for romantic comedies for a long time and makes a ton of money.

1:03:24And so then everyone's trying to make the next bridesmaids with their female movie stars, which means that they're not really making romantic comedies. other things happen around this time which is superheroes and really the and and netflix and so the kind of the middle of the box office completely disappears at the same time the industry is trying to make all movies super international and you know comedies are not as translatable internationally as say a giant superhero movie even though i kind of disagree with that but that's what studios think. And it just, it all kind of crashes. And so there's a great Amy Nicholson piece that ran in 2014 that's called The Death of the Rom-Com, which is reflecting what has already happened.

1:04:14And she notes in it that in 2013, there was not one romantic comedy in the top 50 films, not even in the top 100. And it's not just that the romantic comedies weren't performing at the box office. that in 2013, the sole boy-meets-girl matrimony comedy was unceremoniously dumped into theaters by big indie Lionsgate and limped to number 101 on the chart. And her premise, the premise of the piece, which investigates and talks to a lot of people, it's really well-reported. I recommend that everyone read it. It's, you know, it's the same. It's a lot of different factors. It's the audiences. It's the distribution systems.

1:04:56It is, like, international box office. It is, you know, competition. It's that the budgets of the economics of movies, right? And I think it identifies, how do you know, the James L. Brooks infamous 2010 romantic comedy starring Reese Witherspoon, among others, that just didn't work. And it does not work. It doesn't work. It's pretty pissed. It doesn't work, but you get enough of those and those become expensive enough as the economics of the movies are changing, as they always are. And people just stop making them. But 2013, 2014 is like a real stopping point. And they just do not make studio movies anymore.

1:05:41And so what we've gotten in the last 12 years, literally half of the eligibility time for this list, is very different. And not as widely seen. And sometimes follows the rules, but also is kind of trying to change up a formula that wasn't really working. And so that's the interesting part of this is that we can talk about what our definition of a romantic comedy is, but I still do find myself gravitating towards the very classical definition. That doesn't make sense anymore for people to make. Like that's been done. that's been done well. To your point about One Night Only and like the Easter eggs, the only thing that is left to do is make references to it.

1:06:29So I may have to be more flexible about my definition in this exercise, but I'm not very good at being flexible. I think we've talked about this on Jam Session. A lot of the best rom-com ideas are also just now on TV. Yeah. And I actually felt this way a little bit with One Night Only. Like, would this have been a better idea as a TV show? Because it clearly had so many ideas and the sort of like travelogue piece of it, the Odyssey piece of it, like, is that better done over the course of like eight episodes than in an hour and 46 minutes? And maybe it lets you experiment with tone a bit more and be a little bit looser and just a bit more messed up in a way that I think this movie is really just trying to skate over all of the complications that its premise presents because it wants you to have a fun time at the movies, which it is until you remember that sex is legally planned by the federal government.

1:07:20and everyone has sensors in their body. I mean, you're right. It's insurmountable. But the other thing it lacks is like actually good friends. Like, we did this exercise at Grantland like a while ago. I'm sure it'll come up here. A hallmark of all the best rom-coms is like a really great friend who is there to help like work out inner monologue stuff. I mean, all of the greats have that, right? Like, Carrie Fisher is as, I hope, as famous for When Harry Met Sally as she is for Princess Leia, at least in my home. And, you know, that's really lacking in One Night Only, too. And I feel like it's hard.

1:07:54It seems like it's hard to make space for that kind of thing in movies now. Okay, let's enumerate our criteria for a romantic comedy. I feel very strongly about my structural definition. Okay. And this may come back to bite me in the ass specifically, because some of my favorite movies don't meet it. But and I guess it's a bad idea to be a very strict traditionalist in any forms, certainly in legislature, but also when making this canon. But I guess you need some place to start from. OK, and this is a made up list. So my structural definition is that it's two people who are opposed at the beginning of a film and they wind up together at the very end.

1:08:40okay if they get together halfway through and then they have some like emotional setbacks and they're not sure whether they can trust each other that's a different genre it doesn't mean it's bad it's just a different genre if someone dies it's a different genre if someone is a dragon or whatever that's a different genre I hear it's very popular I'm this is this is going to be controversial, but I don't think that we have any animated examples on our list. So that one is not just a different genre. That's just not an area where we are experts. And so there's not a huge tradition of adult animated romantic comedies, at least in a box office space.

1:09:25And so we're not considering them for this. And I'm sure people are going to yell, but I'm sure people are going to yell a lot. Do you have anything else you want to add in terms of the structural definition? Can I just throw a couple of movies at you that I'm like wondering how you think of them? Sure. The Breakup starring Vince Vaughn. Don't spoil it. I put it on the long list. We're going to talk about it. Yeah. I didn't know who was going to be on it. Okay. Sorry. Yes. I'm new here. When I am in control of the document, everyone's comments and concerns are added to the document, including yours.

1:09:56Okay. I'm following your lead. Carry on. So, that's the textbook structural definition. Then obviously personal tastes and preferences are going to come into play here. And so here's something I feel very strongly about and you can push back, but I think that this is an adults only space. I think that teen... It's porn? I'm sorry? Is it porn? Well, not one night only because it's illegal. They don't even touch porn. There's like not even a reference that porn exists that I remember. Maybe they do. Maybe there's a passing reference. I don't think they do it. because they don't talk about masturbation either, but it is like the number one form of media What happens if the condom breaks?

1:10:36No conversation about that either. Anyway. It was too top of mind because Callum Turner was practicing with a glove. Sure. That was funny. That was good physical comedy. Okay, so I just think teen movies are different. Yes. Yes, completely agree. I think if you have to ask, is this a teen movie or a rom-com or is this a sports movie or a rom-com? It is not a rom-com. Exactly. Is this an action movie or a rom-com is a similar one. There are many movies that have a romance, but are they leading as a romantic comedy is the question that we're trying to identify. So for me, I'm particular about the premise, which is similar to what you're saying, is the premise that needs to be specific to the real world and also not confusing in terms of other genre designations.

1:11:27Right, right, right. So the premise can be immoral or amoral. I'm thinking of While You Were Sleeping. I'm thinking of You've Got Mail. Those are not eligible because they were released in the 90s, but they're core text. But for example, Kate and Leopold, which is when it's Meg Ryan falls in love with Hugh Jackman who came from the past. Is that right? Yeah, I believe so. That's a little too romantic-y. You know, that's a different... And what we're dealing with and whether or not they can be together is more about time and space and metaphysics than it is about how people meet and interact in the real world.

1:12:05Sure. So like this also eliminates Enchanted with Amy Adams and Patrick Dempsey. Yes. And James Marsden. Yes. We don't have musicals on this. I should, I don't think. We have many musical sequences, but I think of Enchanted as musical first. To your question of, is it a rom-com or is it a musical? Right. There's one music motivated movie that I can't wait to discuss. I mean, it is also Enchanted is Cinderella, more or less, isn't it? Yeah, but like with some jokes about modern life. Okay. And Amy Adams. And it is a musical because Working Girl is also Cinderella, but I do think that it is romantic comedy.

1:12:43And, but it's the 80s, so it doesn't matter for this. So, you've added really great friends, which I think is important. That is a, that's a key. It's a huge one. It's a really big one. And I think that we will have that reinforced throughout this. And then my last qualification is time and money spent. If you have fake movie stars, if you have people who can't hang, if you've miscast this, we can tell. If you're using a green screen of a famous bridge, we can tell. And which has happened in many movies that we're going to discuss, but not one night only. I will say they used the real bridge and I give them credit for that.

1:13:26But, you know, Nora Ephron and Nancy Meyers are very specific examples where they write their scripts and direct most of their movies themselves. And they are like complete, they are a tourist, right? They are a specific world that these people imagine. and not most romantic comedies and especially most studio romantic comedies are not made that way. The script and the director are often very different. And so the expression, the writing and the expression of the world are slightly more divided than in Nora Ephron and in Nancy Meyers, but it is really essential to the text no matter who's writing and directing.

1:14:06And if you're doing a lazy version, it takes away from the movie. It's evident, yeah. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. It may have been years ago, but I still remember the feeling of unpacking my kids' lunch boxes after school and to find nothing left. As a parent, that's a total win. Boar's Head, maple honey ham, American cheese, maple honey turkey, all-time greats in the school lunch game. It's real quality protein that tastes great. So you can feel that winning feeling all term long. Whether you're doing wraps, sandwiches, or a quick snack box, Boar's Head makes packing school lunches easier.

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1:15:59Is there anything? Yeah. I added all your suggestions. You think we're clear? Anything else you want to say? Well, I just want to say one other genre I feel like has permeated this century is like, is the combination of Sex and the City and Girls. And I think those have a lot of motivation or like have a lot of similar motivation and interest as romantic comedy. But of course, they're TV shows, so it's a slightly different conversation. But those are also ultimately about friends. Yes. Friends are the thing. And I think that like people who love romantic comedies I think frequently also love those two television shows.

1:16:33And I think they appeal to similar senses, but they're not like in the conversation in the same way. But I think it's worth mentioning them because they're so tied to the genre. It's an important point because Sex and the City was turned into a movie and a sequel, both of which would be eligible for this. I don't have Sex and the City 2 on the long list because it is not good. And I don't have Sex and the City, the film on the long list because I do think that it is a friend's first movie. I think it's a different genre. And there is even in that movie after the wedding's canceled and they go to Mexico and then she hires Jennifer Hudson and it's, you know, labels and love and whatever.

1:17:11I've seen this movie like a thousand times. I'm not above this movie. It's a great movie. But when she and Big, spoiler alert, finally do get married, they're at the courthouse and then they have their nice moment. But the real emotional moment of that movie is when he swings the door open at the courthouse and her friends are there and they all just, you know, squeal together. and it's lovely and wonderful. So I... I just wanted to acknowledge sort of like, it's like friends of the pod, friends of the genre. It's more of friends of the genre. It's like spiritually tied, but ineligible for this exercise.

1:17:44Yes. Okay. So here's what we'll do. I'm just going to go through the long list. There's some that we can just be like, no, we don't want to include this. And some we can say, yes, this is essential. This is a long list that you and I brainstorm together. We will forget things. Once again, this is our personal, but also legally binding canon. And we have explained our criteria. They may be slightly different than yours. That said, we've watched a lot of these. So here we go. Number one that I put on Bridget Jones Diary, 2001, adapted from the Helen Fielding novel, which was inspired by Pride and Prejudice.

1:18:23Unassailable, yes. What a wonderful movie. Yes. And yes, absolutely. I mean, it fits everything that you've listed. and it's also an incredibly wonderful special movie and a great book. Stars Renee Zellweger, who was nominated for Best Actress for this performance. It's written by several people, but Richard Curtis wrote it and he created, he wrote Four Weddings and a Funeral. He created Love Actually, which I also don't think is eligible. That's an ensemble, not a rom-com. Many of those people don't find love at all, especially not... But it's a sad movie. Yeah. So it's a really sad movie about how our workplaces are not professional.

1:19:04And you can't trust Alan Rickman, even if you want to. So we are aware that he also made Notting Hill. It's from 1999. Yes. Let me be clear. Right. I mean, one of the probably still in my top three romantic comedies. Oh, definitely. It's so good. I mean, it's so it's it's so good. I feel warm thinking about it. Sure. But that's 1999. He also wrote the film Yesterday. You know about that one? Of course, yeah. Did you see it? I love the music of the Beatles. But what if someone else wrote it and no one, or what is it? What if no one else remembered the music of the Beatles? Yeah, I think that's what it was.

1:19:41I didn't see it, no. It's pretty outrageous. Okay. Bridget Jones Diary, an absolute yes. Colin Firth's as Mr. Darcy's I Like You Just The Way You Are speech was a literal reading at my wedding, so we will move on. Okay, this is an interesting one. Legally Blonde, also 2001. Reese Witherspoon, Luke Wilson, Harvard. Harvard Law, I should say. I'm going with no. Say more. Well, she is opposed with, I would say Warren. Is that his name? The man she wants to marry? That's his name, isn't it? Yes. And they do not end up together at the end. She does find her way to Luke Wilson. They're never really opposed.

1:20:28He's sort of more bemused by her. That's true. And it is as much about Elle finding herself. Yes. It's about Elle finding herself. And also, like, the affirmation of her lifestyle and, like, caring about your hair matters because a perm unlocks the case. So I think this is much more about, like, you know, one woman's journey from... I accept. ...clueless to informed. And she happens to find love along the way. And on the friend's point, She makes a good friend along the way in Jennifer Coolidge. But she's not sort of that, like, ride-or-die friend who helps, like, helps you understand the character.

1:21:06She's another project. She's another case. Well, but then she does give the character a purpose. Yes, she does. And gives the character, you know, the character has not really been paying attention to the people around her, except for sorority purposes. Oh, I accept it. I think you're right. It's more about Reese Witherspoon as Elle Woods. It's a great movie. Yes. It's really, and honestly, one of our great courtroom dramas, courtroom comedies. How about that? But the perm seal, the perm reveal, Electric. Oh, it's so good. Okay. I mean, Allie Landry, she's wonderful. It's just, it's a great movie.

1:21:39Victor Garber. We love it. All right. It's not a rom-com. It's not going in the kinn. Okay. The Wedding Planner, 2001, Jennifer Lopez, Matthew McConaughey. This is one of my favorite movies. I like, as we talk about it, I feel like we're talking about a cute boy. I'm like, I love this movie the way I love a cute boy. What speaks to you about it? I put this on the long list because I knew you felt this way. And this is also Jennifer Lopez was a sensation in this era for her romantic comedies. Some of them with Ben Affleck, which were not as successful. And The Wedding Planner, which was pretty successful.

1:22:11Yeah. Yes. And then I think the third and that is Made in Manhattan with Ralph Fiennes, which I think did make more, make a lot of money, but leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Yeah. Yeah, it's not good. The Wedding Planner, This is my favorite Matthew McConaughey. It is definitely pre-hair transformation. Okay. He's wearing a great thin blue sweater in it that I just can't think of very fondly. I think one thing that's great about this movie is that Bridget Wilson is very, very likable. So at no point are you rooting for this woman to take down another woman, even though you might lean in that direction.

1:22:52Everyone in it is a joy. It's a great Judy Greer. She's like totally hysterical in it as the number two wedding planner in this firm. And it is just really charming. Also, I think it's a great San Francisco movie. And we have, we talked about how like, you know, the place really matters. Yes. They do San Francisco well. They do wine country well. It introduces Dr. Alex Karev, which is very important to culture. It's a Grey's Anatomy reference for those of you. He's Massimo. Justin Chambers. So the scene with the peanut M &Ms where they meet and you can tell that they're in love. So Matthew McConaughey is someone who's getting married and using Jennifer Lopez's wedding planner services.

1:23:35But he doesn't know. Yes. When they have this spark, it's, is the Golden Gate Bridge in the, is that in the Full House Park? It's supposed to be in the park. It's in the park. That's a different park. That's Alamo Square. I think this is supposed to be in Golden Gate Park. So you can't see it? No. Which is great. Saves some money. Don't even try to pretend. I guess so. I mean, I would like to see it. Did you watch Voicemails for Isabel? I started it. Okay. Well, yeah, and that's the problem there. That, to me, is, I guess, it's not a romantic comedy because it doesn't start with them being opposed.

1:24:08It starts with a terminal illness, which I was not expecting. Anyway, they also use green screen Golden Gate Bridge. Okay, Wedding Planner is going in for you, Juliette Littman. What do you say? Yes, we need a J-Lo and a McConaughey. And I just go ahead. They end up together. You know, and there's like trials and tribulations. They do end up together. Okay. She's mad at him throughout the movie. And he's sort of like, rightfully so. It's to your point. It's immoral, but I don't know. It's, it fits the bill. I'm curious how many wedding related romantic comedies we will end up with at the end, because this becomes its own genre.

1:24:49Okay. Next, my big fat Greek wedding. Speaking of, 2002. This stars Nia Vardalos, John Corbett. So this has to go in because this was an absolute sensation. This made$241 million domestic in the U.S. The Ian Gomez character was based on one of my high school teachers. So it was like loomed large. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it was huge. I feel like Nia Vardalos became a household name. Yes. They're not opposed, But they are not married at the beginning of this. And it is about all of the things that are going to keep them from getting married. And can they make it to getting married? And spoiler alert, they do.

1:25:32So I think structurally, we're on safe ground here. Yeah, I agree with you. And I think just like culturally significance and amount of money made has to go in. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Here's another one. Okay. 2002, Sweet Home Alabama. Reese Witherspoon is a fashion designer and she wants to marry Patrick Dempsey because he's JFK Jr., but with a different name. And Candace Bergen is his mom. How lucky is he? Unfortunately, she has not finalized her divorce with Josh Lucas, who is back home in Alabama. And so they must all go home to finalize the divorce. But then some feelings are revealed. I've seen this movie a tremendous amount of times.

1:26:17I don't think that that makes it good. It did make$180 million, which is a lot of money. This is Reese Witherspoon really ascending. This movie is great. I don't even know why you have any trepidation about admitting to liking it. Sweet Home Alabama is one of the most charming movies I really have ever seen. Also, a lot of people we love. You didn't even mention that Ethan Embry is in this movie. It's one of his great performances in this century. Okay. It also has a great Melanie Linsky as her best friend. Right. Who's still living back in, a former best friend, I guess. She's still living in Alabama.

1:26:55It surmounts a really cheesy, like repeated motif about lightning in a bottle. We're able to get past that. I was gonna say, the lightning in the bottle is one of the arguments for putting in the romantic comedy, the 21st century canon, because you need to have a couple of facts or scenes or setups in a romantic comedy that you think of every single time you encounter them in the wild. It's where I learned really about the mechanics of lightning in a bottle. And so now anytime I think about lightning hitting sand or just lightning striking in general, I'm like, oh, I wonder whether it will make a sculpture that Josh Lucas can dig up from the sand.

1:27:35And then the other one is shutting down Tiffany's in order to propose, which Patrick Dempsey's character does at the beginning of the film. And I don't know that many people who have done it, but anytime it comes up, I don't know anyone who's done it. I don't know why I said that many people. I was gonna be like, wow. I think it also does something that we like, which is like it has these small Easter eggs. Yeah. The Tiffany's thing makes me think of the scene in Sleepless in Seattle when they go to Tiffany's and like, eight is too few, 12 is too many. You know, Tiffany's is part of the rom-com, like building a rom-com.

1:28:14It's part of it. So it does that well. It picks and chooses other small things. It's a great movie. It also has reenactors in it. How many great rom-coms have Civil War reenactors in it? Well, I don't know whether they're reenacting the version of history that we would like to see. Whatever. It can go in. How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days, 2003. Like the biggest. There's no limit here on the number that we can put in. That's what differentiates this from a Hall of Fame. But if we only had five spots, even, I think that How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days would go on there. I think it's iconic and canonical.

1:28:48Yes. That said, I don't like it that much. I don't like the Kate Hudson performance of her. It's not really her fault. But first of all, this is, you know, kind of shortly after she really blows up with Almost Famous and a few years later. And so she's sort of like riding this new wave of fame, even though she's obviously famous as Goldie Hawn's daughter, among other things. And it's sort of like a pathetic performance. The character is sort of pathetic of like the things that she does to prove her point. And it's one of these movies that I think is like kind of gross for women, even though it's like a movie for women.

1:29:28And so I just don't really like it very much. It is very retrograde when you watch it back. And also you think about how old you and I were when we first saw this. and it does those so many it sets a precedent for so many romantic comedies she is a writer at a women's magazine and you know you have um judy greer as the best friend once again and you've got like the the yellow dress that becomes like the the halloween costume and the reference point and the nicks game there are a lot of memes and things within it that are incredibly sticky if they even, even if they make you feel bad, which, and then where does she go?

1:30:12She writes the column at the end and then they're on the side of a real bridge. Maybe this should be the only litmus test. It's like, do you have a real bridge or a fake bridge? If there's a real bridge, you can be in the canon. If it's fake, you're out. Anyway, they reunite on the side. I believe the Brooklyn Bridge could be Manhattan and they fall in love. It's got to go in. This is, it's got to go in. Yeah, hugely influential. Okay, I agree. Ask for more from the men in your life. Something's Gotta Give, also 2003, written and directed by Nancy Meyers. I mean, one of the greatest movies of our lifetime.

1:30:47It was on our 25 for 25 list. Yeah, it's a great movie. Yes. I made a lot of money. $124 million domestic. Also, you know, is about someone over the age of 40. So that's very exciting and pretty rare on this list. Great writing. I think the most influential of her production designs and clearly inspired Coastal Grandma, among other TikTok trends. Of course. Yeah. You know, and Jack Nicholson. And anytime someone is not picking Keanu Reeves is a level of rom-com wizardry. It's really hard to put everyone in a situation where the audience is not rooting for Keanu Reeves, who's a doctor in the Hamptons.

1:31:31I know. But they figured it out. A nice one. Okay. Really, really good movie. Okay, that one's going in. Under the Tuscan Sun. This one is a little bit closer to the Legally Blonde. I agree with you. I think that it's not going in. I mean, it is culturally influential. And Under the Tuscan Sun is a shorthand for a woman finding her own and through some home renovation, usually in Europe. Right. And so there is a romance. And there's also heartbreak at the beginning and the middle of the movie. but I agree great a great movie a great reference a great framework for life once you can get past the cheating and the divorce not in the canon we've covered several movies now that include actors from Grey's Anatomy and there's more to come I just want to say this is probably why I love Grey's Anatomy so much tied to the genre 13 going on 30 2004 speak on it as a teen movie this is a teen pretending to be an adult this is big for 2.0 it's a fun movie it's got the Michael Jackson thriller dance number there's a sequel coming but this is not a rom-com it has a romance but again this is about a woman like or a young girl finding her way I think that's right I think we're gonna get a lot of blowback for that and we obviously you and I are very pro Jennifer Garner it's an understatement yeah I but I agree I like Mark Ruffalo as well sure and Judy Greer I mean it's a great movie yeah but it's not a rom-com Uh-oh.

1:33:03Okay, I agree. I agree. Hitch, 2005. Stone Cold Classic Robcom. Absolutely. Yes. It's so, so good. I think it's my favorite Will Smith movie. He's so funny in it. His physical comedy is really good. It's definitely like when I think of Eva Mendes' movies, I think of Hitch. Like, I feel like this is like just a cultural touchstone recently covered on the Rewatchables. Yes. Great, great movie. And also, one thing it does really well, which not some movies attempt, is it basically is two romances that they're trying to land at the same time. And it's successful. Both are sort of unexpected. Obviously, the Eva Mendes, Will Smith one is the main one.

1:33:42But Amber Valletta and Kevin James is great too. And like the dancing scene, I just think of and smile. It's a great movie. Does the fact that it's two couples... Disqualify it? Disqualify it, or does it just make it double rom-com? I'm being devil's advocate here. Sure. I think I can easily point to When Harry Met Sally, which is also two couples, and that didn't disqualify that. That's true. So it's no problem. Okay, that's great. This also made$179 million domestically, which is a lot of money. It's so good. Yeah, I agree. I'm a big fan. Classic timeless movie. Also, it spawned many memes. Again, it's influential.

1:34:19Okay, yes, going in. This is an interesting one. And also related to the question I just asked you. Wedding Crashers, 2005. I think this stretches the limits but it's a yes for me I think it also stretches the limits and is a hugely influential movie and also incredibly successful made 209 million dollars but there is it's about friendship too you know yes it is absolutely and it is about the cast of characters and they're not really opposed at any point. Rachel McAdams is engaged. Sure. And Owen Wilson is just like, has lied his way into the family vacation. Right. So they're sort of opposed, but the opposing force is really Bradley Cooper and Christopher Walken.

1:35:14If this is not a wedding set movie, does it make it more, and they're just... They're just con men? Yeah, they're con men. Yeah, they're con men. Is this more or less of a romantic comedy? I think almost more. I agree. Which is interesting. I guess the bones are there. Okay, we'll take it. I think the bones are there. Okay. And it's, I love, I miss the era, like, you know, in 2005 to 2010, where people were quoting the rules from Wedding Crashing, like, frequently. Yeah, what are the rules? Do you remember them? No, I don't, because I've lost my mind. But, like, you know, it'd be like, number whatever, or play like a champion or like, yeah, just like, I just loved that era.

1:35:59This movie was a force for good. That's, that's what I'll say. Okay. It can go in. The breakup, 2006. I read this one before. Vince Vaughn and Jennifer Aniston. And it is about a couple who gets together and then breaks up. It is, that's, the premise is that it's not a romantic comedy. The premise is what happens after the romantic comedy. It is using everything that we know and expect in romantic comedy to watch this other movie, which is like sort of a comedy. But this is the other thing. It's not very funny. It's sad. There's the one funny scene. Do you like the singing scene in this movie?

1:36:35Because it's like supposed to be awkward. Yeah. No, I don't like that. I think of it frequently. Okay. You're going to sing? Come, come, come. I'm going to kick drum. Yes, it's a great scene. I do not think that this is a romantic comedy, but I thought it was an interesting experiment at the time. I didn't like it at the time because I was like, this isn't a rom-com. I thought I was seeing a rom-com. Yeah. But I do think it's like, it's successful in trying to subvert expectations. Made a tremendous amount of money. $118 million. That's, that's a lot. I, I agree with you. I don't think that according to our structural definition, it is romantic comedy.

1:37:07So it's not going in. The next is on the list because of you. Julia Libman, The Holiday, directed and written by Nancy Meyers, 2006. Would you like to make your case? Yeah, I know you do. This is a tough one, too, to make the case. This also stretches the outer limits. And I'm open to your feedback, Amanda. But here's the case for it to be in. It is two women in parallel who are going through, like, you know, relationship crises who go to another location where by all accounts, they should not be getting into another relationship. But they both meet someone with whom they're not necessarily...

1:37:44Well, Cameron Diaz's case, they are sort of opposed at the beginning at least because it's like she's annoyed. She's just sort of harried in general. Although who would be who would be annoyed when that beautiful Jude Law shows up? Yeah, it's not really that annoyed. Yeah. I guess they're opposed with time. They're opposed with time and then Kate Winslet is still sort of in love with Rufus Sewell when Jack Black is falling for her. Right. And so like he sings to her in a blockbuster. Starring Robert De Niro. or featuring Robert De Niro. It shouldn't... Both of these are like relationships that shouldn't be, and then they end up working.

1:38:23So it builds to the happily ever after. But I do think these are more like women on a journey movies than they are... Women on a journey movie, and also... This movie is not as successful in theaters as Nancy Meyers' other movies, but it has been reclaimed as a Christmas special because it does happen at Christmas. But that... A Christmas movie is not... necessarily a romantic comedy. So I think that this is a different genre. I think this is women finding themselves and also Mr. Napkinhead at Christmas. So it's not going yet. That's controversial, but that's how it goes. The next one is going to be really tough, but I wanted to make my case to you.

1:39:05Okay. So The Devil Wears Prada, 2006, which I traditionally have gotten annoyed with people who have described The Devil Wears Prada as a romantic comedy because it's not a romantic comedy. It's just a movie that focuses on women. And it's true that there are very few of those. But I was thinking about it recently and I'm like, well, what if the romance is between Miranda and Andy? Okay. And they find each other and they find a moment at the end. But even then, they come together and then Andy goes on her way. So really, Devil Wears Prada 2 would be the romantic comedy. And it's, time's a bit of a downer, Devil Wears Prada 2.

1:39:51Yeah. I don't think it quite fits, but it has this, it's a workplace comedy. Okay. Which is important. Sorry. Women who, yeah. And it is also ladies finding themselves. Totally. Yeah, I said that. Okay. Well, I tried. I love the original Devil Wears Prada very much. It's great. Okay. All right. We're going to move through these. Knocked Up 2007. This is not our favorite romantic comedy, but I think it's so essential. Yeah. Like, it has to be in. I mean, there is just the basic point that these two people would not end up together, nor would this situation pan out the way that it does in the film.

1:40:32Sure. Sure. Because... It almost feels more akin to One Night Only in its setup than it does to, like, almost everything else and the real world. It's true, but since it's only one, you know, one couple, as opposed to the entire United States, then you don't really need to worry about why they aren't just terminating the pregnancy and moving on. Anyway. Also, we'll say, I love Seth Rogen. And, like, he is very charming in this. He's a great actor. He's a charming human. He's a charming actor. He's great. And, like, it did sort of... This, I think that he is, like, as big as some of the other people we've mentioned in terms of rom-coms, obviously because of Judd Apatow.

1:41:11And this is sort of his main rom-com. I agree. And it's a big deal, and it is so influential in movies and also in the arc of the romantic comedy. So we'll put it in. The next one... So one thing I want to introduce to you. For Hall of Fames, we pick 10, and then we pick one special blue film, which is just a personal endorsement, which we don't have number limits on this canon, but we could also do one personal endorsement. But first, I'd like to offer you the chance to make the case for your beloved music and lyrics. Well, I don't know why I need to make the case because it clearly is a rom-com.

1:41:54Are you saying because it's not good? Well, we are making the canon of the romantic comedies that we feel are essential of the last 25 years. Okay. Well, this is definitely one of them. I mean, it's funny. We actually maybe should talk more about Drew Barrymore. Like, do we have 50 first dates on here? We don't. Do you want to put it on? I don't know. But I'm just thinking about Drew Barrymore and the Sandman. I mean, there's the wedding singer. Right. But here's the wedding singer. The wedding singer is 90s. Okay. So that's out. 50 first dates, though. That's in the 2000s, isn't it? It is. I believe it's 2006.

1:42:28That's a depressed one, though. I don't think that one should be in. It's 2004. And I agree that I didn't put it on the list. because quality does factor into what we're doing here. Go ahead. I feel Music and Lyrics is a high-quality movie that I, at one point in my life, purchased from the Apple store and therefore carry around on my phone every single day. Music and Lyrics, if you haven't seen it, stars Hugh Grant as a former pop star who is just looking to make any dollar he can so he will go on the nostalgia-driven like ultimate fighter shows for formerly famous people. He was basically supposed to have been in like Wham!

1:43:08And then he is writing a song for a new young pop star, like as if it was like Ariana Grande. And he can't write lyrics. He can only write melodies. So he's somehow paired up with Drew Barrymore. I won't get into the specifics, but it includes watering plants and a plastic plant. And they can't stand each other, but he needs her to write the lyrics for this song. and so they end up falling for each other while writing the song Way Back to You and I don't know what doesn't sound good about that Amanda he explains music to her he tells her about Smokey Robinson over coffee in the West Village the New York geography makes no sense it is a very 2007 movie featuring someone from Everybody Loves Raymond and somebody from Third Rock from the Sun and of course Drew Barrymore and Hugh Grant I don't know I think this is a great great movie this might be your blue because if we're going to include one film written and directed by Mark Lawrence then it should be Two Weeks Notice which came out in 2002 and stars Hugh Grant and Sandra Bullock in which you and I have a real soft spot for even though it features incredibly bad office politics and also a cameo by a certain president so this music and lyrics is going to be your blue.

1:44:28And we have a lot more to get through. So we're going to keep moving fast. 27 Dresses. Catherine Heigl. 2008. It's in. I don't like this movie. I do also find it a little bit depressing. It's a woman who is kind of down on her luck. And it's the always a bridesmaid, never a bride old idiom that we should eradicate from our language. Quite literally. But it's a good idea for a movie and it was pretty successful. And it gets referenced a lot. This is also, you need a Katherine Heigl in the mix because as Katherine Heigl's star rises in the world of romantic comedies, so do the rise of all the other movies doing better at the box office.

1:45:12That's not fair. She does a couple, but she's kind of the last. She's the sign of trouble to come. Definitely maybe 2008. I have to tell you, I never finished this movie. So you don't know who is her mom? I don't know who he picks. Okay. Who's the mom? This is the Abigail Breslin era. This is the Abigail Breslin era. I think I put this on the short list because Ryan Reynolds is the star and it's Ryan Reynolds telling his daughter the story of how he met her mother, but also telling her about three previous relationships he had in inappropriate detail. One of those relationships is Rachel Weisz, who's a political journalist at New York Magazine, and Rachel Weisz is my hero.

1:45:58And one of the more beautiful person people in the world to me. So I just remember it because of this. And, but I think it doesn't meet the structural definitions. And also you don't know how it ends. And it ends, frankly, annoyingly. Okay. Do you want to tell me? I mean, I've been waiting since 2008 to find out. No, I think that there are some things that should remain a surprise to you. you know okay forgetting sarah marshall 2008 excellent movie obviously a rom-com yes i think that this is a yes so and this is this is a yes this is the movie that craig horlbeck always cites as incredibly important to his generation which is slightly younger than ours sure but this brought this brought some new people in to a dying genre it's a great movie i love jason siegel who doesn't love Mila Kunis.

1:46:47It's really good. The Proposal 2009. Sandra Bullock and Ryan Reynolds. She's obviously a rom-com. She's a publisher. He's her. She's an editor and he's the assistant. Right. Great movie featuring Betty White, Craig T. Nelson, Mary Steenburgen. Great cast. Really good. Also Oscar from The Office, I believe. Great movie. And they need to get married because she's getting. She needs a green card. Do you know how much money this movie made? No. $164 million. That is a tremendous amount of money domestic for a romantic comedy. This has never been one of my movies, but I do think that it's the last box office sensation and other people seem to enjoy it.

1:47:32And we didn't put Definitely Maybe in, so we should have Ryan Reynolds on it. I agree with you. I think that also it's a good reminder of the star power of Sandra Bullock, which I feel like I take for granted. Yeah. But remember when that Bird Box movie came out on Netflix and it was like such a big deal. People just like her movies. They do. Practical Magic 2 coming this fall. Okay. Morning Glory, 2010. I think our shared most underrated romantic comedy of the last. And every once in a while, we can do one for us. I recently got some feedback in the big picture mailbag that like I've made my case on this one.

1:48:10Morning Glory? Yes, I have talked about Morning Glory on this podcast enough. And I've said the words frittata. enough just like that. It's Rachel McAdams. It's Patrick Wilson, Diane Keaton, Harrison Ford. It's a great Hunter Boots movie. Yes. That is when Hunter Boots were a real thing. And it's filmed in New York and she's running around Rockefeller Plaza trying to do whatever she is going to do. Didn't make a lot of money, but pretty wonderful. And this is our list, so I think we can put it in. We can do what we want. It's a great movie. I don't understand anyone who thinks otherwise. I also don't understand how people haven't seen it.

1:48:44So just, you know, sign up everybody. Okay. The next one. What's your number? 2011. I put this on the list because I met my husband outside of a screening for this movie. It stars Anna Faris and Chris Evans. And it's an incredibly insulting film about how Anna Faris reads a women's magazine article about how you can only sleep with 20 people in your life or you can't get married or something. And she's on 19. So she has to go track down all of the people she had sex with. It's degrading and occasionally funny because Anna Faris is an incredibly gifted comedian and then guess who her number 20 turns out to be we don't have to put it in but you know it's a piece of big picture history okay that's beautiful okay Silver Linings Playbook 2012 I think that's a yes I think so too I like this movie I'm not supposed to I think but I do like this movie yeah Well, the mental health stuff plus the David O.

1:49:45Russell conversation, but it launches Jennifer Lawrence more or less. I mean, this is her Oscar winning role. And it does a lot for the city of Philadelphia and trash bags and Bradley Cooper made a ton of money. I think it's a yes. I also when I asked my husband, I was like, what is your favorite rom-com of the last 25 years? And Silver Linning's playbook was his answer. So there we go. It's very good. Okay. Agreed. All right. Right. Enough Said, 2013, directed and written by Nicole Hollisenter. I think she makes movies that are rom-com adjacent. And I understand why it's here. But I don't... I think this is a movie about adults navigating life.

1:50:25And navigating dating as old... Not even as older people, but as people who aren't 28 or supposed to be 28. You're completely right. And I don't think that it meets our definition of a romantic comedy. I think it's one of the most wonderful films made in the last 25 years. I rewatched it. I recommend it. A beautiful James Gandolfini performance. Julia Louis-Dreyfus forever. Okay. So now we're in the type of movie is changing. The frequency of the movies is changing. And certainly the box office is changing. I think this is sort of like the internet indie era almost. Yes. So this is 2014, at which point the economics of a big budget studio romantic comedy starring movie stars is gone.

1:51:16We're not doing that anymore. Obvious Child. Directed by Jillian Ropespear starring Jenny Slate and Jake Lacey. Definitely a rom-com. Okay. Also one of the most unrealistic rom-coms I've ever seen. Because Jake Lacey's character is like too perfect. Like only a woman would write Jake Lacey's character. But sometimes in a romantic comedy, you can have a real person. And I mean, that brings up the question of, is this more about the Jenny Slate character and what she's going to do and whether or not she's going to have an abortion and her own personal, her personal decisions and sort of like a response to Knocked Up and with a romance alongside of it.

1:51:59The flip side is that I was out to dinner with two friends last night, asked them what their favorite romantic comedy of the last 25 years was. and they both said obvious child. So. I think I responded too quickly. I do think this is more of like a woman on a journey story with a cute guy. And I think I just really like it. So that's why I was like, definitely, but I think you're right. Yeah, wonderful movie. Okay. Yeah, it's wonderful, but I don't think it's in. It's out. I retract. Okay. Trainwreck, 2015. This was a Juliette suggestion and I thought that it was very, very wise. I think it's a rom-com.

1:52:30It's not my favorite. It is. But it's a rom-com. And I think the way that it resolves itself very much meets our definitions of a rom-com, though its resolutions are what it's grating to me because they feel a little tidy and a little bit like putting the messy Amy Schumer character in her place. Yes. And she... The Amy Schumer character is also like a real throwback to like the earlier... of like the kind of like messier Jennifer Aniston-style characters. characters like you know it's it's um also kind of condescending but there's like some truth to it too i also just think this movie is like a cultural touchstone i feel like it it was just such a big deal lebron being in a movie was so funny um i don't know it was it was a really big deal and it's it follows all like the arc of it of like a classic rom-com perfectly yes this used to be my favorite movie of all time because i saw it on a date in middle school with a girl i had zero chance with.

1:53:29Wow. How did the date go? That's a beautiful story. The date went well, but I was way more into her than she was into me. Nothing really happened, but I think I tweeted Trainwreck is the greatest movie of all time at like 14 years old, so that was pretty cool. So this is also a touchstone for me. You want to weigh out on it now? I still like it. Okay. Is it a rom-com? Yes, 100%. Yeah, because the conflict is really just about whether, A, whether she's being ethical in her job, which is a hard no, but B, whether or not she can be, you know, in a relationship and whether he can be in a relationship.

1:54:00And they're not quite opposed, but they're also never really on the same page until the end and her really cheesy romantic gesture. Also, LeBron is great in this. Also, this made over$100 million, which like in 2015 for comedy, like for this genre is significant. So it was a hit. Judd Apatow directs Woman. Miracles happen. Let's do it. Okay, it's in. to his credit he was like a major sponsor of Lena Dunham when Girls started I think he was the executive producer and you know I just saw a headline about his daughter's movie finally being released after it was a hit at TIFF last year okay that's exciting I haven't seen it I don't know well maybe maybe you will okay carry on The Big Sick 2017 written by Emily V.

1:54:51Gordon and Kumail Nanjiani who stars in it opposite Zoe Kazan directed by Michael Showalter. This was... Autobiographical, right? Yes. And nominated for a screenwriting Oscar. A decent hit. Made 42 million. I think it was... Very funny. Launched the Ray Romano meme about you go online. People hate Forrest Gump. I never go online. I love Ray Romano. He's so... He is such a good actor. I found this movie sad and I think we try to eradicate illness from our rom-coms. I think this is more of a family movie than a rom-com. I think you're right that there is more drama and it is very funny, but it's not light and we have been...

1:55:44But then we're going to get in really tricky territory if we can't do anything sad for the rest of this list. Then we won't have anything after... Anything good? yeah certainly not anything good and I'm willing to give up on a lot of things but I think this one was a big enough hit and also being recognized by the Oscars in screenwriting as a big deal like it was sort of a sensation it also maybe is important to like recognize the shift in what is a rom-com yes in this moment yes in terms of scale in terms of how it's reduced and released and received I think it's important so I'm gonna fight for this one Okay.

1:56:24All right. Next one, set it up. The big deal here at The Ringer because it is set up at a company not unlike The Ringer, which existed when this film came out. I believe it was based on Grantland. Yes. Where they worked. Sure, but by the time it was released, The Ringer existed. Written by Katie Silberman, who I believe went to Dartmouth, much like you. Yes, and also wrote Booksmart. Stars Zoe Deutsch and Glenn Powell. This is like Zoe Deutsch's first big Netflix movie, and she's still making them all those years later. She sure is. I think this is a rom-com. I think this also really helped Glenn Powell.

1:57:06I feel like people were really talking about him after this. And this is one of the first Netflix originals about adults that I remember other people talking about, being like, oh, did you see it? Set it up. Pretty good. And I do feel even if we now, as we talk about all of the Netflix romantic comedies, which are a very varying degrees of quality, we all say, yeah, but like set it up was pretty good. So that was pretty good. OK. And it's also it sort of like takes the idea of Cher and Clueless setting up for teachers and then sort of like expands it in a way. And yeah, I think this is a romcom.

1:57:47OK, great. And you think it's worthy of the canon? I do. I think it's similar to The Big Sick. I think it ushers in a new era of streaming rom-coms, which is where most rom-coms are now. That's true. Fleabag Season 2, written by Phoebe Waller-Bridge, starring Andrew Scott and Phoebe Waller-Bridge. This is a TV show. This is a TV show. And I do think that it's important to recognize the fact that some of our greatest romantic comedy writing in the last 10 years has migrated to TV. and also Fleabag and the other example that we'll get to are concentrated enough that the runtime is not that much more than a feature-length film would be.

1:58:30Especially because Fleabag is only six episodes. Exactly. I do still think it's TV and it can't technically go in, but it was also, it's complicated and the point is that they can't end up together and that's what that's interrogating, but, you know. And they're not really like opposed. Well, his faith makes them opposed. Well, sure. He's a priest. Sure. Who gets to blend in. Yeah. I think that it introduces Andrew Scott, even because, you know, season one Phoebe Waller-Bridge was already around, and she, oh, so this was like, you know, at the Fringe. And Andrew Scott had been around too, right?

1:59:08Like, he was in Sherlock, which was a huge, huge hit in the UK. But I think it introduced him to, like, a female audience in a different way and like really launched him as a heartthrob. He hasn't really done anything like heartthrob-ish since, if I'm recalling correctly. He's done a lot of stuff and he's really successful. But this was sort of like, I don't know, just like this is such a moment. Fleabag season two is a moment. That's I guess the best way I can put it. And Hot Priest was a moment. And I think even 10 years earlier, it would be a movie. But it was a TV show, so it can't go in. Plus One, 2019.

1:59:45Jack Quaid and Maya Erskine. Did you see this one? I did. Another wedding-related movie. I did not really enjoy it. I thought it was quite boring. I want to like Jack Quaid for his lineage. And also, I like the boys. But I was not into this. Maya Erskine dancing at the first wedding that they go to is one of the funniest things that I've ever seen. I stopped because this was on Hulu. So I stopped my TV and rewound it to watch again. I don't think I've ever done that in a movie before. But it does not have to go in because you weren't as enamored of it. Happiest season, 2020. Speaking of Hulu. So we're in the COVID era now.

2:00:30Yeah, we're in COVID. This is a Christmas movie as well. Yeah. I liked this movie. I really clearly remember watching it. I think it's important. I think it should be in. It's also one of the only like non straight movies we have in this conversation. And I think that makes it pretty important as well. And it was very charming. I really liked it. They technically are together at the beginning. And it's more about finding their way back to each other. Yes. But after family hijinks and insults ensue at Christmas. But, you know, we do have precedent, the comedy of remarriage. Yeah. Which, you know, technically in those, the people are divorced, but they're coming from a place, you know, you start together-ish.

2:01:17And then as long as you rediscover your love, then it works out. I mean, the real issue here is that everybody wanted Kristen Stewart to just run off with Aubrey Plaza. Yeah, totally. But in a way, that makes it interesting. We do have many other examples of there being a very compelling third person in the love triangle who's a man. So why can't we have a same-sex version? I agree. Happiest season, really good one. Palm Springs is also a 2020 COVID Hulu situation. And I do think it has to go in. I think it has to go in. I also do not like this movie. I just wasn't moved by it. You don't like Palm Springs, the place.

2:01:57Just the idea of Palm Springs. I'm like, oh, it's too bright. I need sunglasses. Just like anything that's like sun drenched is the past for me. So I didn't really want and a pool movie. And no, thank you. But I understand this was very popular and people loved it. And very inventive and moved a lot of people. And I think it came out very early in COVID. And it sold for a lot of money at Sundance pre-COVID. And we all watched it and thought like, oh, maybe life isn't over. And also romantic comedies aren't over. Yeah. They still kind of are. But whatever. Great movie. It's going on. Starstruck season one is a TV show.

2:02:31So by my own rule, it can't go in. But it is also two hours long. It's an inversion of Notting Hill, or it's a gender switch. of Notting Hill, I should say. Written by Rose Matafeo, stars Rose Matafeo. The most delightful two hours you can spend. It's so good. It is so good. I just want to make a plug for the other TV show that I was thinking of, but I dared not put on here, which is Lovesick on Netflix. I think it's all on Netflix. Oh, right. Yeah. It's so good. I would just go straight to season three. It's very similar if you're looking for the same vibe. Okay. Worst person in the world, 2021.

2:03:05This... I did see this, Amanda. I'm happy to tell you. I liked it a lot, obviously. It's a wonderful movie. As I was making my rules for a romantic comedy, I realized that it doesn't really fit romantic comedy. It's more of a woman figuring things out about herself. It stars Renata Reinsva. And this is how most of us learned about Renata Reinsva. Absolutely delightful movie. My favorite movie of 2021. Check it out if you haven't seen it. Fire Island 2022. Still in COVID. This is written by Joel Kambuster, directed by Andrew Ahn. and it's gay Pride and Prejudice and set on Fire Island, which is the beach community.

2:03:46The titular island. The titular island of beach community outside of New York. I thought this movie was very charming and I still think they do a thing where they sing the Searchlight fanfare like to the screen or something when it opens and every time I hear that now, I think of this movie. I don't think it has to go in. It was smaller. I don't know how many people saw it. I did not see it. I'm aware of it, but I did not see it. It was charming. And they talk about fiction and reading books in this movie. So that's good. Anyone But You, also directed by Will Gluck. I watched this on a plane. Starring Sidney Sweeney and Glenn Powell.

2:04:26Yes. I think that's it. I watched this on a plane to meet you in London, if I recall correctly. Oh, nice. Yes. And I feel like the press tour for this movie eclipsed the movie itself. We got so much Sidney Sweeney and Glenn Powell. It is a good, solid movie. I enjoyed myself. It did well. It's not that good. It's not that good. If we're lowering our standards, it's in. As almost like one of the only rom-coms to get like a wide theatrical release. Yes. And to be successful and make money. And they do also, if we're doing the Bridges test, I don't know if there's a bridge in Sydney Harbor but they do have a major set piece oh yeah I'm sorry forgot that some of us on this podcast have been to Australia they have a thank you to United they have a major set piece in Sydney Harbor with that was filmed there at least part of it was filmed there it doesn't look totally fake so it meets a lot of the criteria I don't think Sydney Sweeney and Glenn Powell are well matched there's not a lot of chemistry there beyond the sex scenes that's another thing this is as much a sex comedy as it is a romantic comedy but I do think that it fits the rules and it made it was so successful that we have to include it okay I think you're right it's canonical but not good yes okay there we go our like our standards can only take us so far Rylan it's true 2024 have you seen this?

2:05:59I have not This is a wonderful, this is a much smaller movie. It's British. It's set in London. And it is a one night, you know, only type of movie of two people who meet wandering the streets and fall in love. It stars David Johnson, who you would recognize and who has since been cast as the new Black Panther.

2:06:24So it's lovely. And I really liked it. It was a Sundance movie. And I guess not enough people have seen it for it to go in the canon, but it's kind of like should be canon. Maybe this will be my blue. Okay. Okay. You have music and lyrics. I have music and lyrics. You have Rylane. Okay. It's beautiful. Sure. Okay. Anora? Is it a romantic comedy? I'm ashamed to say I haven't seen Anora. Okay. I'm honestly ashamed. It won Best Picture. Jack, is Anora a romantic comedy according to our definitions? I think so, right? They're not together at the start. Well, who's they? Mark. Oh, interesting. Very interesting.

2:07:05You're saying you're a Burosov. Yeah. Well, I was thinking through Mark Edelstein. Well, sure, but they get together and then the movie, if it's Mark Edelstein, then it's not a romantic comedy because that doesn't end well. Spoiler alert, Juliet. This is a wonderful film. I am going to see it, just to be clear. And I also just want everyone to know, like tonight, I have to watch like six to eight hours of reality TV. I know. movies. I just don't have time. No, I know. So I think that this is more, this is a comedy and also a drama that uses a lot of screwball comedy and screwball comedy references, which are a big part of certainly the first, the earliest romantic comedies and has romance in it.

2:07:46But it doesn't, it's not a tradition. It's not just a romantic comedy. No, I agree. I also think it has some of the same reasons you put Big Sick in where it's like, this is a different version of the romantic comedies we've been getting. It got recognized by the Academy. I would personally have it in because it's also a wonderful movie. Yeah. And it did, I mean, it won Best Picture. It's really stupid to not claim it for the romantic comedy genre. It's great. I'm going to get it. I loved it. It was my favorite movie of 2024. Pillian 2025. This is the dom-com. You recommended it to me so many times.

2:08:23This is wonderful. Written and directed by Harry Leighton. written with Adam Mars Jones stars Harry Melling Alexander Skarsgård this is a this actually though if we're going by our own rules and even though the very neat catchphrase dom-com is there it is ultimately it's about a young man discovering himself and then he is discovering how he wants to be loved I know but Jack is making a face at me in the booth I think it's definitely a romantic comedy it is I'd argue it's more of a romantic comedy than an aura. Well, okay. So I guess at this point, we have to decide with our list and with this last portion of our list, which is about the ways in which the romantic comedy had to change and it cannot meet our original standards and survive, then, like, how flexible can we be?

2:09:18Because I kind of agree, like, Pillian is right there. And it is so wonderful. It's your podcast and your list and Sean's not here, so do what you want. Jack, go, oh, but, uh-oh. Go ahead. If a genre is dead, then the genre is just dead. Like, I don't know. Is it going to evolve and adapt? I'm not sure it's going to. It's going to be a different kind of movie. And there's all these movies that are like adjacent to it, but aren't quite the same. Sure, but there is also a movie that uses the tropes of a genre so specifically to comment on it. Mm-hmm. is I still think of the genre, even though it's trying to do something new.

2:10:01So I think, I mean, this is, this is about a guy who gets into a dom relationship, a sub dom relationship with Alexander Skarsgård, and it is about their relationship. And then what happens? And it has this magical last scene. No, it has to be. Okay, it's going in. It sounds like a rom-com from what you just described. We're breaking our own rules. And like the relationship and the nature of their romance or what the definition of romance is between them is the text of the movie. Okay. My last pitch is just being cute. And I've been saying this all year. The drama, 2026, which I do actually think is a rom-com.

2:10:39It is probably more. I plan to watch this too. It's more a romantic comedy of remarriage because they are together and then some hijinks ensue. But it's set around a wedding. It uses so many of the tropes and the structure and even the final beat of the romantic comedy is set up and lands perfectly. There's a dance element to it. There are friends. There's a really, really bad best friend, speaking of. But she's supposed to be bad because she's sending it up. So I think that there's a case to put the drama in here just to be cute. I would put it in over One Night Only which I think is a more traditional romantic comedy and very fun but it's not going to be canon it's not canon as you've said at the very beginning the plot set up is insurmountable okay so that leaves us with 23 movies which is for 25 years wait are we counting the drama?

2:11:42yeah I'm putting it in because Sean's not here but my pot and pan are do you feel okay with that Jack? I do the only counter I think is that they're not opposed at the start but otherwise I agree that's also a wonderful movie yeah but they they're separated pretty quickly by the revelation and like the the drama the drama of the drama is them can they find their way back to each other or should they? it's also a fun example of a movie that goes against your rule of movies that start with weddings are good and movies that end in weddings are bad. That's Sean's wedding. But it's the flip of it in that it is, I personally think how the wedding at the end is a good use of it.

2:12:23It's really, really funny. Juliet, you'll like that movie. Okay. I'm definitely going to see it eventually. I'm going to read the list very quickly in my movie phone voice and then I'll release you. Okay. No release necessary. Honored to be here. The 21st century rom-com canon as decreed by Juliette Littman and Amanda Dobbins. with support from Jack Sanders. Bridget Jones Diary, The Wedding Planner, My Big Fat Greek Wedding, Sweet Home Alabama, How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days, Something's Gotta Give, Hitch, Wedding Crashers, Knocked Up, 27 Dresses, Forgetting Sarah Marshall, The Proposal, Morning Glory, Silver Linings Playbook, Train Wreck, The Big Six, Set It Up, Happiest Season, Palm Springs, Anyone But You, Onora, Pillian, and The Drama.

2:13:07I don't know why I need to do that. Enforcement. Go ahead. Let's bring us to a clean 25. Rye Lane from Amanda and music and lyrics from me. That's 25 movies. That's great. One for each year. Yeah. That seems appropriate in summation, but it's felt like a real desert living it. I would love more than one a year. Well, we do have a gap from 2020 to 2023. There's some other gaps in here from 2012 to 2015. We need more. We need more and we need them to not be just released on Netflix or thought of as a Netflix movie. Give us more. That's all I can say. All right. That's it. This has been two hours.

2:13:50Juliet, thank you truly. I think it's been over two hours. That's fine. Juliet, thank you for coming. Thank you for having me. To discuss our most beloved shared topic. So many movies that make me smile. Thank you to Jack Sanders, our producer, for his work on this episode and also for some crucial insight on train wreck and his 14 year old dating life. I mean that positively. Listen, this is how we learn and grow. Thank you to Sarah Reddy for her production support. I am now going on vacation. This is my time. This is me hitting the vacation bell. But Sean will be back next week. We're trading and Sean is going to do a mailbag episode.

2:14:28You can send mailbag questions to bigpickmailbag at gmail.com. And don't send them for me because I won't be here. But I hope you guys have a great time. Juliet, thank you again. And I will see you guys on the other side.