Sex, Hell, and 10 Movies We Missed This Summer. Plus: Gregg Araki!

26:17Well, it's the only movie theater, I think, in America that is running the movie. Oh, that makes sense. Because I was looking yesterday, every other movie had anywhere from two to four screenings. And this movie had, I think, at least 18. Yeah, it was every 20 or 30 minutes, right? I thought about going to the movie theater to see it. They did that for Oscar qualifying consideration for Best Animated Feature. Okay. I haven't seen Rose of Nevada yet, and I feel shame about it. I haven't either. I also want to, it was playing at TIFF while we were there, but we didn't have time to go see it. I know.

26:49And then I, you know, was playing scheduled Tetris and just couldn't get anywhere in LA. So Rosa Nevada is the new film from a British filmmaker named Mark Jenkins, who's made a couple of movies in the similar style of the one that he made this one. But this one stars Callum Turner and Harris Dickinson and is supposedly quite good. Is it Harris Dickinson or George Mackay? George Mackay. Excuse me. Yeah, it's okay. Easy to confuse those British men to me. The Kidnapping of Arabella, your girl. Carolina Cavalli's new film. So it was in Orizante last year at Venice, but I missed it. And then it's like two theaters here, and I couldn't figure out how to get there.

27:31Spotify deleted all our emails like six months ago, so I don't have the emails of the distributor. I love her original film, Amanda, or her last film, which not just because it's about me. and I really want to see this one but I didn't make it. I think it's Oscilloscope is the studio so I can hook you up with that contact. And then Rosebush Pruning new film that stars our friend Tracy Letts among many other people. Elle Fanning is in it I know. I think also Callum Turner once again. Callum Turner is in it. Jamie Bell is in it. And played Berlin earlier this year and I guess opened on one screen in New York and I don't know if it has plans to expand to LA.

28:08I got a few texts from friends like hey did you see Tracy's movie? over the weekend. And I was like, that movie is not available in Los Angeles. So none of those movies will be discussed here. Maybe we'll hit them at some point down the line. Let's talk about what we did miss. What we missed, but then caught up on. We have since seen these films that we will discuss here. The first film, did you see this film? I did. Okay. I took my son in the afternoon to go see Moana. Yeah. The live action film still starring Dwayne The Rock Johnson. Right. Right. So Thomas Kale directed this movie. He is perhaps best known as the director of the Hamilton musical on stage, Broadway director, has done some work in film and television as well.

28:50And I mentioned this briefly when I took my daughter to see it. This was going to be one of the biggest movies of the summer. This is one of the most iconic Disney features of the last 25 years. Yeah. What'd you think? This sucked. Yeah, it's very bad. This was very, very grim. And I don't mean that the musical or the songs or, you know, the spirit of the ocean and Te Fiti and everything, you know, shouldn't be honored. You're more of a teka. I just absolutely DOA. And you can kind of tell from the moment, like, consider the coconut had some sort of musical Tommy Kail flourishes. Yeah. And I was like, okay, I get it, you know.

29:32And then, like, even really, really bad CGI and also slowing it down to 0.5 speed is not going to take away your welcome. Like, you're welcome. And when The Rock shows up for a moment, you're excited. But then it descends into true CGI hell, the likes of which I have not seen since the last time I saw a Marvel movie. So I just, I couldn't believe how bad it looked. and of course it has to because it's a fantastical story about the ocean and all these ocean creatures that don't exist and it was originally told in animation and now they're trying to quote unquote make it real but it's not real and it's pointless and it's poorly done and I left wondering how much money Thomas Kale really needs.

30:20I don't know. I'm sure he got paid well. I think it's really more like why did this movie need to be made at this time? I mean obviously it was being made also for money. The original Moana is fantastic. The Moana 2 is not very good. I found a couple things to like about it but it's obviously Missing Manuel Miranda's songs which is part of what makes the original such a special movie. I found this really really depressing. There's this great anecdote in that Odyssey making of that's on Peacock about the moment when Odysseus and his crew are sailing and we see two dolphins swimming alongside his ship.

30:55Do you remember that sequence from the Odyssey? And in that making of they talk about the fact that that's not CGI. That actually happened. Those dolphins were actually swimming alongside the boat and they just happened to capture that moment, which is such a breathtaking moment to the point where I was like, oh, wow, they decided to put CGI dolphins in because it seems so unbelievable. And, you know, making the Odyssey was obviously very, very, very, very, very difficult. And it's paying incredible rewards. And Moana, which looks like it was shot on a soundstage in a tank and the coloring is awful and its translation of the story is, as you say, slowed down and drawn out and belabored.

31:36And I've felt this way about every Disney live-action remake. I'm like, you just cannot justify these movies being 30 to 45 minutes longer than the originals. That all of the Disney classics are these like perfect 91-minute, you know, majestic pieces of storytelling. And the economy of those stories is so crucial to them. working the way that they do for young children. Why are these movies an hour and 52 minutes? It makes no sense. And it was a disaster because I took Knox after camp. And so that meant that we didn't get out of the movie theater until close to seven, which just then there was just an absolute meltdown in the lobby about getting popcorn or a little Minions button or something.

32:17You know, he just wants to like, you know, smash and grab every single thing on the way out and I can't let him. So I needed it to be shorter for bedtime enforcement. Did you read Nicole Sperling's piece about the$100 million industry of popcorn buckets in the New York Times? I saw the stats. And I also now live with a popcorn bucket because our friend Mark Anthony came with us to see Totoro and took Knox to concessions. And then Knox came back with the Grogu bucket with popcorn and then Bunch O' Crunch poured into the popcorn, which was not something that Knox knew about. That's a ball knowers move, though.

32:54I'm not a popcorn person, but that's an elite way to elevate popcorn. It's really great. But, you know, I have been taking Knox to the movies and sometimes he gets popcorn in a bag as a treat. But, you know, we're trying to enforce the movie as the treat lifestyle. Then Uncle MAG comes in and is just like, here, that's his job. Nobody did anything wrong. Uncle Spoil. Yeah. I've been there. But then you just sat through Moana, which Knox didn't even care about a tiny little bit. Yeah. And you come outside and your four-year-old is just protesting for... Also, the Moana popcorn bucket was just Moana on the side of a bucket.

33:31They didn't even try. You think that's bad because she's a woman? What's the issue? I think this movie is a real disappointment. And I really... It had me wondering what Disney's plan is for movies. I really don't. You know, their live action strategy is one of the most depressing things that's been happening in Hollywood for the last 10 years. And I really hope they find a way to pivot against this and, you know, invest in some original storytelling. Like, even as critical as we are of some of the animation stuff for Pixar, like, at least they're making Hoppers and Gato's coming out next year and Hext is coming out later this year.

34:06Like, they are doing it with the animation stuff. Gato trailer was a big hit. Yeah, that looks really good. Yeah, looks very charming. I really wish they would just apply that same ethic to the live action stuff. I'm with you, bud. Okay. Speaking of animation, it's time for you to discuss. You're in Minions Yellow. Was that on purpose? No, but as soon as I walked in, Lucas was like Minions Yellow. So the boys in the booth both complimented the shirt and then Lucas knew exactly where I was going. I can't see it because I'm off the cliff now. But I'm sure it looks great. Minions and Monsters. Yes.

34:40This is the, what is this? The seventh Minions related feature film that we've gotten. four Despicable Me's and three Minions films. Pierre Coffin is back to direct and to voice some of the Minions. The film follows the Minions in 1920s Hollywood. I didn't realize they were over 100 years old as they search for frightening creatures. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Minions have been with us since the beginning of time. Well, that's what, we're going to learn that more specifically in this feature. But you know, you have learned that as well. I don't remember. I'm not up on Minions lore. Minions and Ghost Rider, those are my blind spots.

35:12Keep going. the minions are in 1920s Hollywood as they search for frightening creatures for their monster movie partner with a green creature and must save the planet after unleashing monsters you saw this movie some time ago I did with again my four year old son and many adults thank you to everyone at Universal who invited us to an afternoon screening said yes to a child coming and then he was the only child in the room that's okay you liked this movie? I was very charmed by it And so was Knox. And we liked it. I'm sorry. I like cinema, you know? Sure. So I don't know if you've heard, but this is a love letter to cinema.

35:49Yeah, great. Amazing. First time anyone's ever done that. And also George Lucas. I mean, it is, as many people have pointed out, just Babylon with minions. So I don't know what your problem is. You don't like joy and humor? No, my problem is I don't like minions. Okay. There you go. That simple. If you take the minions out of the movie and just give me Babylon, I'm very interested. I think this is a franchise I just don't get. Your explanation, your advocacy for these stories, I understand. It's like Three Stooges stand-ins. I get it. There's an art to physical comedy. Part of what's appealing to me about the Three Stooges is they're actually doing that stuff.

36:24It's not animation. So slapstick and animation I don't think is very funny. I do also. The comedy, like Minionese, is very funny to me. There is comedy in the way that they are drawn. It makes me laugh. I don't know. You can't explain it, but it makes me laugh very much. Yeah, and then they just recreated Babylon, and they have, like, elaborate set pieces, but with a lot of minions. Yeah, the middle part of it is that. The middle part of it is, like, a real homage to silent cinema and to, like, a lot of Buster Keaton sequences and great train robbery and a lot of those moments that, like, you know, movie dorks are very clearly kind of pointing their finger at the screen and saying, I know what that is, I know what that is.

37:01It does kind of turn in the last 45 minutes into being, like, a big monster spectacle movie. and nobody loves monsters more than me. I love monsters. I thought they were trying to make like three movies at the same time a little bit and I felt a little unevenly paced. I don't want to get too pointy-headed about a Minions movie. Okay. But it being full of stuff I like. They're invoking their love of cinema so you can too. They are. I just, I was honestly just like a little bored by the like insanity that sometimes tips into inanity when I'm watching these movies. I know you shouldn't have a stick up your ass about Minions but I kind of want these movies to be better.

37:37Okay. And I know this is the one that everybody thought was better. And I was like, is it really better guys? Like, is this really, I don't know. You also like wept openly about toy story five. So it's, we just, we're passionate about different things. You're passionate about app updates and I'm passionate about cinema. And that's fine. That's not what I was passionate about. I mean, it's a real ladybird meeting. They didn't understand it. It wasn't an app update in toy story five. It was a QR code. It was built into the toy. So he's just activating a power that is part of the toy sale. So you're passionate about QR codes?

38:12No, that's not what I wept about. I wept about the idea of young girls struggling to make social connection in the world because everybody's looking at their screens. And I feel that's very impactful. But then the screen grew a conscience and helped her make friends. So it was okay. It's about the kids and about their relationship to imagination. Right, and about parents who do not have any sort of safety guardrails in terms of online being here. I mean, I don't support that, but I don't need what's on screen to reflect my own morality. You know, I can see beyond that. I don't either. And that's why I just enjoy the pure cinema of Minions crashing a train.

38:46As you would say, I'm happy for you. Knox and I had a great time. Does the lack of success of this movie indicate anything to you? Did they try to just get a little too high-minded for whatever the audience is for this movie? Is it possible that it's just kind of on the downside and expiring as a cultural product? I mean, I think it is that wave of we're on the back end of many of these franchises and people are familiar with them and people are growing up. And I think probably the Minions fans, except for me, are not of an age where they're rushing to take their children to the theater to relive their fond memories.

39:21They're like 24. Exactly. They don't have kids. Yeah. Yeah. And then also, I think that the timing of it, because it was July 4th and then that became World Cup and everything out. That's true. I think Toy Story 5 being so big, two weeks after Toy Story 5 was a bit of a gambit. And two weeks before the Odyssey, which the Odyssey has just from, I'm surprised that Andy was able to find a theater that was playing Disclosure Day in Los Angeles because it really is very hard to find other movies because all of the theaters, rightfully so, are just maxing out the number of times you can see the Odyssey.

39:57Yeah, the box office gross on that movie actually went up overnight because just like you said, they're kind of showing the movie at midnight all over the major cities in America. I give Knox a lot of credit though because as I was watching it, I was like, will little kids even like understand what's fully going on? Well, Knox, much like the protagonist in Tenet, is not trying to understand and really feeling cinema right now. Yeah. See also Sandlot when Sean was asking me not his opinions of Sandlot. I was like, he didn't have any except he was afraid of the beast. But we're getting there. But thank you for believing in him.

40:34I believe in him, too. You know, Alice's Lemonyons and Monsters, too, and she felt like the blob was way too scary. Irene, the giant blob at the end of the film, you know, which was unusual because she doesn't usually get scared of things. The only two scary things she's seen this year are Irene the blob, the orange blob. Yeah. and all the blasters in Mandalorian and Grogu yeah I guess Knox just is not paying attention I think okay this concludes the kid related portion of our catch up here did you see The Dink over the weekend? I sure did oh interesting okay so The Dink is a new Apple streaming comedy that's directed by Josh Greenbaum and stars friend of the pod Jake Johnson produced by Ben Stiller and And I wanted to ask you before we talk about this movie, have you played Pickleball?

41:21I do not play Pickleball because my mother is one of the Pickleball 70-somethings portrayed in this film. Oh, wow. My mother plays Pickleball four times a week. So was this like watching Marriage Story for you? How was it? I was quite amused by it. Yeah. Because my mother plays Pickleball four times a week. She has Pickleball friends. They go on trips together. I think they have a book club now. It has been like a major outlet of her social life. Are the books about pickleball? No. But like she brings home books that like I don't know where she finds these things. Like the world is wild and people are reading some weird shit.

41:59Can you give us an example? I mean, it's sort of like self-published history that always has some sort of questionable conservative intent. I personally feel that the pickleball friends have like broadened her horizons just from the bridge friends a little bit. but like just this is this is what I'm dealing with so I appreciated the pickleball satire in this film yeah I thought the movie was pretty uneven but the pickleball stuff is very funny it's using like pretty traditional sports comedy structure of like down on his luck former great who has to find redemption by shifting his you know greatness from one sport to another that sport is related he's got an overbearing father who doesn't really believe in him played by Ed Harris yes I think some of that stuff is fine that's just like the covering.

42:44The stuff I really liked in the movie is the dynamic between him and Mary Steenburgen. So my note is this actually should have been The Graduate. I was really disappointed that it cucked out in the final third. Yeah, I would have actually, I mean, so in The Graduate, how old is Mrs. Robinson? Is she meant to be like 41? Let's see. Right, and Benjamin is like 21, 22? Yeah, and so you're meant to, because so is the daughter. The daughter's Eileen, right? No. What's her name? Yeah. I don't think it's Eileen. Is it Eileen? Elaine. Elaine. Okay, yeah. My wife is Eileen. No, I know. And that's why. Okay.

43:26So I guess she's also 20-something. Yeah. So then Mrs. Robinson. If Mrs. Robinson had her at 20, she could be like 45. 45. But so in this movie, Jake Johnson's like 45. Right. And Mary Steenburgen's like 70. By the way, absolutely stunning for her. Yeah. 70-year-old woman. She's just so great. She's very funny in this movie. And like, actually given like a real part, like I feel like many women are not given like a real character. That's why I was like, keep going, you know? I know. Like have some balls. If it was like a proper, not even a romance because the movie I think is very smart about the dynamic between these two actors.

44:01But it keeps having to kind of circle back to its pickleball premise, you know, because that's how they met each other and that's kind of what's going to get redemption for the Johnson character. I thought it was not bad. I thought it was a perfectly fine way to spend the evening. I chuckled while watching it. My husband came in and out and was like, oh, you know, he observed that the Jake Johnson voice is like so specific and familiar. And even like that patter of comedy, he was like, I know exactly what you're watching just from listening to it. Yes. And I'm amused by it. There is a cameo, an extended cameo, really a supporting part by a former tennis star that I quite enjoyed.

44:40I mean, you should talk about it. Andy Roddick is in the mix. And I thought he's really good and very funny. He was very funny. I've always been an Andy Roddick fan. Do you think he was the first call? Was he written into the script? Was it possible that it was Federer? Was it possible that it was someone else? Well, I mean, the stakes are that the Jake Johnson character is like he was on the rise, but he was never at Wimbledon. And in fact, like the pivotal tennis match is like a tune up for hard court season in the US. so I think you do need an American player like USTA juniors or whatever yeah and so then the list is sadly like very short that's true I guess who else could it even have been I mean I guess Sampras but he doesn't really seem like he has a sense yeah and he doesn't have a sense of humor how long has Pete Sampras now is he in his 50s he's gotta be probably Jim Courier could we have gotten him Michael Chang yeah I mean this is a short list sure yeah but I think Andy Roddick is Andy Roddick the last American to win a Grand Slam Is that possible?

45:40It's 2003 US Open. Manny Moore was in the stands. Never forget. They were dating? Yeah. And he climbs in the stands to make out with Manny Moore after he wins. But I... You don't remember this? He climbed into the stands to make out with Ron Artest? What do you mean? To kiss her. Yeah. After he wins the US Open. I hope someone does that for me someday. Probably not. You're off the cliff now. That's true. I know. I wouldn't even see them coming. Anyway, I enjoyed it. It was like, the jokes were sharper than they often are in a kind of made for streaming, like a paycheck fun role. I'm a huge Jake Johnson fan.

46:20I am too. Yeah, it's written by Sean Clemens, who hosts the Hollywood Handbook podcast, and it's very, very, very funny. It's like literally one of the funniest podcasts in the world. Last American man to win a Grand Slam, by the way, obviously. Like, please excuse me. Right, please excuse you. I Apple's movie strategy I'm like I don't know what are we doing what are they doing I saw the Matchbox trailer over the weekend with John Cena that's going straight to streaming all these movies are going straight to streaming I don't understand why they want to be making movies on TV shows I'm glad that they funded some movies that I really like well the TV show thing I think makes sense because they're having a lot of success I mean they're not maybe not they're certainly not as big as the major streamers but they were like I think second in Emmy nominations Like they're starting to really break through in that respect.

47:07It's very similar to the Netflix thing to me where I'm like, do you need to be making original movies as pure streaming plays to make the business appealing to customers? I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out. I mean, I guess the takeaway from Netflix is yes, but I've always thought that Netflix was doing it in part to kind of like pull down its competitors around them to kind of chain. And also Netflix is rooted in movies as a history with their kind of blockbuster in the mail strategy going back. For Apple, if they're going to make six to ten real movies, I mean, Red Hour produced this movie.

47:39This is a real movie. And then not put them in theaters. I don't really get it. I mean, if the entire business is just to put on their devices that they just then sell to you, then it makes sense to skip theaters. But do most people know what the dink is? Like, it doesn't have a real marketing spend because it's not going into theaters. Just showing up on your Apple TV. Yeah. I guess. I mean, you know. It seems like a weird thing. We've talked about this a million times, but I'm still flummoxed by it. I completely agree. From the other side, I'm just like, well, you're just actually making the devices.

48:06Why do you need to be, you know, mucking around in this? And it's not making you money. I suspect it's fun to be connected to Hollywood. Sure. You know, and to make, you know, big projects with big stars. And you can, and you have money. Yes. But this is an example of a thing where it's like, you didn't have to. You don't have to do this if you don't want to. But I'm glad you did. But anyway, neither here nor there. Speaking of comedy, Gail Daughtry and the Celebrity Sex Pass. Yes. New movie from David Wayne. We've already heard from our friend Adam Naiman, who absolutely adores this movie. And if he were here, he would advocate strongly for it.

48:37I won't be doing that today, but I was curious what you thought about it. I was amused. I had a nice time. I saw this at Jack Sanders' favorite theater, the Burbank Town 6. That's correct. Is that the Town Center? Yes, Burbank Town Center 6. Town Center 6. The one that's not in the mall by the In-N-Out. There is a third one that is next to the Dairy Queen. There are three Burbank AMC movie theaters for those listening not in Los Angeles. So I saw it at this one on opening day. I want to say at noon on a Friday, which just the crowd at the Burbank Town Center on opening day for a David Wayne comedy matinee is quite powerful.

49:18Was it robust? Well, it was a very specific set of man over the age of 40. I speak on it. I think everyone else can fill in the blanks. Okay. There was a lot of performative laughing. There was a lot of... How many of the men were virgins? I didn't check. Okay. Didn't ask. I sat on the aisle. I was really in and out on that one. But I did chuckle. Like, I didn't have a bad time. I didn't have a great time. I saw it a few months ago, and I really loved David Wayne's movies. I was an allegiant of the state. I liked Stella on Comedy Central. Um, I've enjoyed many of his movies. I definitely don't like them as much as Adam does.

50:04Um, this one, uh, didn't really hit for me. The, the premise of the movie is, um, it stars Zoe Deutsch, John Slattery, Ken Marino, Ken Marino, an absolute icon to me. Um, Jon Hamm. It's about a woman whose, uh, fiance cashes in his celebrity sex pass when a, when a real life star stumbles into their lives. This part of that part is very funny. Very funny. And there is a lot of moments where you're like, oh, this is pretty funny. It's like it's clever at times, but it didn't really make me laugh. You know, if you look back at David Wayne's filmography, one of the stars of one of his movies is the sex pass in question.

50:42So then Zoe Deutsch's character, after she discovers that her fiancé has cheated on her with this famous person, goes off on a quest to conquer her sex pass. And it's like, you know, it's a road movie. Right. It's a team-up movie. It's a going-to-L.A. movie. Yeah, it's The Wizard of Oz in a lot of ways. She keeps accumulating new people on her journey. I got it structurally. I just wish it was funnier. I just didn't think it was all that funny. And, you know, beyond that, like, David Wayne is obviously not Denis Villeneuve. Like, you're not going to get the greatest filmmaking in the world from him.

51:14So if the jokes don't hit, then, you know, sadly, I was not one of those men performatively guffawing in front of you in a movie theater. You know, the send up of the AMC CityWalk and the Bubba Gump Shrimp was enough for it. There are a lot of very knowing, sort of like clever, ha ha, you know, jokes from on high about Los Angeles. And they are both self-deprecating and a little bit holier than thou. So I can understand if you don't think they are funny. I chuckled at some of them. I didn't think they were the funniest. Let me ask you a question about celebrity sex passes. Yeah. Something you believe in?

51:50you know we've never formally discussed it in my home with a lawyer well i don't would you would a lawyer would be involved i mean we you know there's no prenup so it's not like you're violating anything just share that here good to know so i'm just like i like what would what would the lawyer be enforcing a marriage contract Yeah, an agreement. Sure. That confirms when Zach sleeps with blank, you get nothing. Then I can't legally divorce him. But isn't California a no-fault state now? So I can't anyway. Sure. Yeah, listen. You want to tango with me? What else could be in the agreement, I guess?

52:29That's the thing. Let's add some provisos, you know? I don't. So, no, it's never been discussed. And the funny thing is that all of the people who would be on my list are people that Zach has interacted with professionally. All of them. Not all of them, but most of them at this point he's met. Why would that matter? Well, it's funny because it's like, I'm never going to get the opportunity, but Zach would have the opportunity with my last list many times. And he's always very accurately, so I'd like you to know, I'm going to be interviewing Ben Affleck next week. And I'm just like, oh, okay. And he's like, you can't.

53:03And I never try to go. Like, as you know, that's not my style. I'm not sure I know who his would be. I have some ideas. I mean, I have some ideas, too, you know, and then I guess if you're putting the list together, you got to think about like probability. Right. And then also the math. Yeah. Well, just like is the opportunity going to present itself? And could I lock this down? And can you close the deal? Yeah. You know, so I like I have some ideas. I know who he thinks is attractive and I believe in Zach once he's in the room. But I don't know when like he and Fergie are going to cross paths, you know, hopefully soon.

53:41I don't know. That sounds very exciting. Yeah. I think it's actually a really good social construct. Yeah. Like if you can make it happen, get in there, you know, make it about you. Yeah. Eileen and I haven't discussed it. Okay. We've definitely tossed around some names that we enjoy. Yeah. I mean, I think that's normal. Yeah. But we've never done like a locked in eye contact handshake deal. Like just so you know, in case this happens. Right. Yeah. I'm also, you know, a bit proficient, professionally compromised at this point. not sure that that's something that really makes a whole lot of sense for me oh do you mean just i've encountered a few people in my time now recently but maybe you could just have like movies are off the board but there are many other types of famous people you know and so you're not like ethically compromised uh that's a good point what's what's an example of that um i don't know any athletes any i mean you know i know the ringer deals with athletes but you don't anymore so it's fine.

54:40That's not true. I'll be recording Mets Corner later this afternoon. Which member of the New York Mets would I have a celebrity sex pass for? Jack, what do you think? Carson Bench. Carson Bench, I agree. That's a good choice. He's a rising young star, a strapping young man. You know, swimsuit models. That sounds like it could be a lot of fun, right? If you encounter the right one. Who's out there right now? I can't believe we've done like 10 minutes on this. This is just a good topic of conversation. Swimsuit models. I'm trying to think about who's a famous person that I have no experience like cover you know I've written about music I cover sports yeah but again you're out of the game so that would be fine I've been out of the game for almost three decades it's just that we're just we're just having fun here on the show okay respectfully I'm gonna tell you about Evil Dead Burn for a minute okay so I saw Evil Dead Burn we didn't cover it on the show CR and I did not have a deranged conversation about a crazy horror movie I'm a big fan of the Evil Dead franchise guys.

55:36This is the, I guess this is the sixth Evil Dead movie that's now been made. The three original Sam Raimi movies, which were made in the 80s and early 90s, which are pivotal horror comedies. The original film was remade in 2013. And a few years ago, we got Evil Dead Rise from the director Lee Cronin. This new movie, Evil Dead Burn, is directed by Sebastian Vanacek, who is a French filmmaker who made Vermine. You know about this? No. The crazy spider movie. Very upsetting spider movie. Very mean-spirited. I think it was called Infested here in the United States.

56:12And the new movie is extremely violent and upsetting. You saw a brief clip of it, I think, at CinemaCon, right? Where a zombie demon pushed a man onto an open dishwashing machine. And he fell onto a lot of cutlery. I did see that, yeah. which is a very impressive action sequence and gross horror sequence. And when I saw that, I was like, okay, so this guy's bringing this same really nasty aesthetic to these movies, but hopefully he'll bring some of what we like about the Evil Dead too. His movies are pretty funny. They're pretty elegantly and amusingly staged. And I don't know, the franchise is now just like getting meaner and meaner, darker and darker, less funnier and less funnier through each one.

56:57So we kind of tanked relative to how the last couple did. and now I'm wondering like there's another Evil Dead movie coming next summer I think and it's already in the can and I feel like the franchise is a little bit dead at the moment so I don't know I think this was a little bit of a weird choice and I don't know why they've pivoted so far I like really mean horror movies I like when a movie is deranged and gross but these in particular like I don't know why this one needed to live so it's a not recommend for me yeah I thought about going because this was one of the movies that it was sort of Odyssey counter program I mean and more if a theater were playing four movies this would be one of them along with the Odyssey but you were not high about on it and it's like a you know a zombie falling onto knives just not how I want to spend my time there's some virtuosic filmmaking it's just like it's also doing the thing where it's trying to tell the movie from the perspective of a woman who has experienced domestic violence and her dead husband's whole family is sort of like bringing her into their home after some time and kind of integrating her, but they despise her because they hold her responsible for their son's death.

58:07And so it's just like really sullen and dark and not a fun summer horror movie. And it also, I think it's in really sharp relief to something like Obsession, which is kind of like rollicking and kind of funny. And it feels like it's maybe from a slightly different era of horror movies. Okay. Let's talk about something you have seen. No, I didn't get to see Her Private Hall. That's why I was going to go to something you have seen. Oh, sorry. Okay. Yeah. Let's talk about I Want Your Sex. Yeah. Very curious about how you feel about this. And if you care about Greg Araki's movies at all. As I said, new movie, Olivia Wilde and Cooper Hoffman.

58:41It's about a young art world aspirant who joins a very famous gallerist and artist named Erica Tracy's space. And she very quickly draws him in as sort of like her sexual bottom. You know, her sub to her dom and she kind of controls him in a very non-progressive domineering fashion. Sort of the flip side of pillion in some ways. Olivia Wilde plays the artist. Cooper Hoffman plays the guy who works for her. Young cast, Mason Gooding from the Scream movies, Chase Suey Wonders, Margaret Cho, Daveed Diggs, Charlie XCX is in this movie. Yes. What did you want? playing the she's a med student and and she's cooper hoffman's girlfriend sort of but hates him yes uh which i thought was sort of was funny i mean you know the the way that gregoraki makes movies about sex and what he will show and or even though like way he'll conceptualize it you know informed both of how we started watching movies and is very cool and i like everyone involved.

59:51And I was even amused by some of the speeches that Olivia Wilde gave that were like, your generation doesn't know how to do anything and you guys are such losers. No offense. But it did feel like that was the perspective of the movie, if that makes any sense. I talked to Greg about it. I feel like the reason to go to the movie is Olivia Wilde. Who's on an incredible run right now. She's really, really funny and really fearless in this part. And it's a very like sexually frank revealing role. And Greg was saying that he was like, I am Olivia Wilde's character and I'm Cooper Hoffman's character.

1:00:27And so the movie has kind of like split me in half in a way and that the sort of naivete and the sort of sensitivity and the faint to progressiveness that Cooper Hoffman's character suggests versus the boldness of Olivia Wilde, the sort of like un-PC-ness of her character is also him, which I thought was interesting and like actually made me understand and appreciate the movie more. It's very broad. Like his comedy is very screwball and very broad. And so like if the jokes are working, it's very funny. If they're not, it doesn't work as well. I liked some of the movie crazy stuff about it, like the Sunset Boulevard riff, framing device around it.

1:01:02I thought it was interesting. He hasn't made a movie in 12 years and has been mostly working in television and directing a lot of series television. And I do feel like there's a whole generation of people who like consumed his thing, his aesthetic. Learned about the world. Yeah. Yeah, and it's like some of it is about the sexual frankness. Some of it is like the shoegaze music that he's really into and just like the general alternative culture that he represents in the 90s that is obviously very important. But yeah, I liked it. Okay, what should we talk about next? You want to do her private hell?

1:01:39Yeah, okay, let's do it. I tried to go see it, but it's only being shown after 7 p.m. here in Los Angeles. I'm sure that's not true, but I tried really hard and I did note that all of the screenings were way too late for me to make it to. Yeah, I mean, it bombed this weekend. This is Nicholas Winding Refn's new feature film, his return to feature filmmaking, much like Araki, after many years away. I guess The Neon Demon is his last movie, which is about 10 years ago. And he's been making streaming series ever since. I haven't had much cause to talk about Refn, but I love Refn's movies. This new one stars Sophie Thatcher, Charles Milton, Havana Rose Liu, and Diego Calva.

1:02:22And I saw it at Cannes. And I haven't seen it since Cannes. You saw it at 8.30 in the morning at Cannes. Saw it at 8.30. I would say 27 % of the reason why I went to Cannes this year was to go see this movie. Yeah. Because I really like Refn and I like the idea of him returning to these kinds of movies. The movie is about a troubled young woman who is searching for her father as a mysterious mist engulfs a futuristic metropolis, unleashing a deadly and elusive entity. You never want those. You don't want that. Her quest collides with an American GI who's on a harrowing odyssey to rescue his daughter from hell.

1:02:55Like you do. Yeah. On trend. Yeah. He... I mean, we did a whole podcast in Cannes about the movies we'd seen, and you did not even mention that you had seen this movie. You completely forgot. That's how inconsequential and also not good you thought that it was. Yeah, it actually, it reminds me of Minions and Monsters in this way, which is that it's constantly gesturing towards things. So it indicates to you, this is like a Giallo movie. This is like a Lynchian nightmare film. This is like a sort of like post-Russ Meyer, like sexual fantasia with all these women living in this apartment building.

1:03:42There's like all of these clear earmarks. And I think that it come to Refn from like a very honest place. He was basically like, I had a dream and I wrote down my dream. And that's what this movie became. It's turgid, turgidly paced, slow, dull, beautifully designed. all the performance styles are this kind of like monotone you know slow motion motorcycle fantasia yeah um everyone looks great yeah everyone it's a beautiful collection of young stars yeah um Havana Rose Liu giving a pretty funny performance as like Sophie Thatcher's friend who becomes her stepmom when she marries her dad okay uh and so they have a very catty dynamic Charles Milton looks immaculate as the GI guy who's looking for his daughter and beating the shit out of people.

1:04:32He's doing a little bit of Only God Forgives. But the movie just, it kind of feels like it's taking place. Like on a cloud. And I don't mean that in a good way. Like if there's something kind of like light and airy and wet about it that I just, I really thought it was not interesting. And I was so disappointed. And I felt let down. When you look at a cloud, do you think about the moisture contained within? I'm not sure that I do. What do you think about a fluffiness? I mean, there is just like science corner. There is moisture in there. Yeah. But no, I think about the fluffiness. I don't know what to think about Ruffin.

1:05:11Okay. It's disappointing. You know, it seems like there is a contingent of the I will never give in on this people who are like, actually, here's what he's accomplishing here. This is how an elevation of his style. And I'm like, and I would love to get on that journey. I love being a person who is like, you don't see the eighth tier, the nine dimensional chess that my beloved auteur is playing. Like, I would love to do that as an advocate for an artist's work. and it's not in this movie. Yeah. You do that for many other people, so that's okay. I did, the highlight of my can was in many ways when I was walking on the Quazette, I was walking into just a press screening also at the Palais and someone walking into the Lumiere for the evening premiere of, like, the gala premiere of Her Private Hell and she was in a full dress spotted me, like, yelled, and I got to say hello to like a true big Pixico who was going to her Private Hell premiere in Cannes.

1:06:13She was so excited. She sent me her review afterwards. And she was like, because she was there in the moment and that premiere magic, she was like, you know, but also I really enjoyed it. And if you like go with the mood and I was really proud of her and I was proud of the big picture that people were trying to make it happen and make the most of their experience, still did not incentivize me to get up and go to that press screening with you. Yeah, you made a good choice. It wasn't, it's not a good film. I think that's when I went to see Club Kid. Yeah, well, that's a good film. We'll talk about that later this year.

1:06:48I'm not desperate for him to go back and make Drive all over again. That's not what I want from him. I would love to see an elevation. I liked Copenhagen Cowboy, his last streaming TV series on Netflix. This just felt like a dead idea that he tried to conjure it into something meaningful and I couldn't get on the other side of it for whatever reason. uh speaking of of the dead would you yeah you saw young washington i sure did did you not no okay so this is the latest angel studios production um and and you're the chief creative officer at that studio but so hold on i'm taking out my nose app of things that i wrote down um about about this movie and specifically during the trailers so are you aware that all angel movies now start with a like a welcome card that says this film is approved by angel guilt and then something like a growing like two million members and growing or something angel guilt yes and so i'm afraid by purchasing a ticket and expensing it to the spotify corporation that now i'm a member of the angel guilt though i'm hoping that by the transitive property it's spot spotify and not me um better than the devil guilt that i guess that's true so that's what's going on And also trailers, the trailers for this movie were.

1:08:04Can I guess? Yeah. Hershey. Which one's that? That's the biopic of the founders of the Hershey Chocolate Company. No. What? That's an angel film that's coming out later this year. Maybe I didn't write that one down. Finn Wittrock stars as Jim Hershey or whatever his name is. Maybe I also got there. Augustus Hershey. Maybe that was the first one. Keep going because there are three other ones. That was my only guess. Supergirl? No. So the Jeff Daniels, Jared Harris, Reagan, Gorbachev movie. Oh, yeah, I will watch that. Sure. I mean, yeah, me too, obviously. Yeah, I will watch that, yeah. A Revolutionary War movie with one of the hot guys.

1:08:39Oh, who's the hot guy from Game of Thrones? The older man. It's his, like, Ian is his name. Ian Glenn. Yeah, and he gets the weird disease in Game of Thrones. And they just ruined a good thing. Yes. So he's like the leader of the militia or whatever is happening in what I think was a Revolutionary War era movie called The Drummer Boy. And it is about the drummer for the militia. And the whole movie is set to like a Radiohead Creep Girls choir version of the drummer, the trailer, that is. And it leads up to this climactic moment of like, will this drummer boy be able to like drum enough that whoever these people are will fight for the freedom of whatever?

1:09:21And then there was one that appeared to be a movie about a kid who has some sort of terminal illness and a songwriter who is doing some make-a-wish type stuff, but is also obviously struggling with addiction. And, you know, so is he going to find the light? I assume the light is God, but I didn't see the movie, just the trailer. And also ads for the U.S. Navy. So that was quite an experience before you start Young Washington, which is a movie set in 1955. It specifies in the Pennsylvania wilderness, to which I say. I assume you mean 1755. 1755. Yeah. 1755. Sorry. Free Revolutionary War. This is about Young Washington because he's a zombie.

1:10:08Honestly, it would be better. And also in some ways he is. Okay. 1755. it specifies that it's in the Pennsylvania wilderness to which I say where isn't the wilderness in Pennsylvania and shots fired at LeBron James then I I can't believe that that is happening because you got a hundred Sixers games to watch next season enjoy I mean always sitting on the Larry O 'Brien trophy I was doing like one of my sad home workouts by myself when Zach came in and there's usually a do not interrupt my workout routine. But he came in and he said, I just need to interrupt this workout to let you know that LeBron James is a 76er and then close the door again.

1:10:50And it's like, I just have to live with all the pain that is coming my way. I will say that Shiel Kapadia's daughter doing the can't believe this is my life meme is the only good Sixers content. I haven't seen that, but I support that. And I support the young listeners of Philly Special. Anyway, young Washington, not actually in Philadelphia. He's closer to Ohio. And it's a battle for Ohio between the British and the French. And so... Yeah, French and Indian War. Young Washington. This is young George Washington. And I guess he's supposed to be hot Washington, but I wouldn't say that the casting gives a lot of charisma.

1:11:31William Franklin Miller is the actor who plays him. And he really wants to defend his family's land and also be a part of the King's militia. He wants to fight for the UK. And they kind of use him for a while. And then ultimately, you know, I don't remember. I mean, they win because Ohio is the United States. But it's very boring and it's mostly about how young Washington didn't want to be a rebel and he didn't want to have to overthrow the system. But, you know, sometimes a man's got to do what a man has to do, which is a cool lesson. I'm seeing here that Mary Louise Parker, Kelsey Grammer, Andy Serkis and Ben Kingsley are in this film.

1:12:16Yeah. Interesting. Mary Louise Parker is his mom. Okay. And... Damn, we're in that phase of life where Mary Louise Parker is playing George Washington's mom. rich uncle and it's tough it was quite poor well let me tell you something and the battle then basically there are battle sequences that are sort of reenactments and I guess if you like cannons and such get in the mix I there are some horses I think the horses were real I hope so I think they were not CGI horses this movie is a hit I know there were more people it's made almost 50 million dollars at this afternoon screening than at any other I've ever seen at Regal Paseo you think this is a reflection of your lack of love for America in the American contract?

1:12:58Well, this is really about a contract between other people, you know? And yes, I do. I think that it, I would not say that it portrays the Native Americans particularly appropriately. That's not shocking to hear. So. Is this, where does this stand in terms of the highest grossing Angel Studios films? It's gotta be number three, I think. But I will say, Like it, you can feel the conservative underpinnings and the, you know, the retelling of history to set like a certain view of America. But it isn't also like so overtly political or religious or, you know, dogmatic in a way that I think some of the Angel Studios releases are.

1:13:45So it had a dad history vibe. It just seemed like there were like a lot of dad history guys in the room. Yeah. I'm not opposed to a movie like that. Yeah, so it's not, it was boring, and I didn't think that it, like, I just, I thought it was pretty boring. I have to be honest. Like, none of these performances are extremely exciting, and it didn't reveal anything to me about young Washington, except, you know, sometimes you can't follow the rules, even though you wanted to, because it's important to own the land. Whatever. Will you be teaching your sons about the cherry tree? So he gets really mad and he's chopping down a tree that you assume is the cherry tree, but they never say cherry tree.

1:14:25And then Mary Louise Parker comes over and says, stop, you have to find a different way to express your anger or something like that. Is that the phrase that she uses? No, that was Montessori mom. I don't think that's historically accurate. I don't know how much of this was historically accurate either. George, please take a deep breath. You're submerged underwater. Everything is going to be all right. Your trauma can be evacuated.

1:15:15theaters, August 7th. Get tickets. Meow. This episode is brought to you by NOS Energy. Every ounce of dirt, sweat, and gears, every checkered flag and trophy raised, every lap, every race, every hard-fought place. They're all jammed inside every can of NOS Energy. High-performance energy for burning the midnight oil in the garage and pedal-to-the-metal human horsepower for the streets. Go ahead, crack open a can of NOS Energy and get after it. Evening. Buyer's remorse. Buy a new car? I'll be moving in. Let's get started. Uh, sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana. You what?

1:15:54Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no... No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyer's rejoice? I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it. Buyer's rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven day return policy at Corpana.com. Okay. Let me tell you about Motor City. Okay. I saw it on Friday. Similar fashion the way that you saw Gail Daughtry by myself with four other people. Okay. Do you know anything about this movie? Do you know the gimmick of this movie? I know that it's Jack Reacher. Alan Richardson.

1:16:30It's Alan Richardson. So Ponce Ponsaroli is the director. He made a movie a few years ago starring oh my goodness. what is the actor's name from Oh Brother Where Art Thou not John Turturro and not George Clooney but a terrific character actor whose name escapes me anyhow he made a movie called Old Henry starring that actor and Tim Blake Nelson Tim Blake Nelson thank you very much really really good movie that actually just shot up to the top of the Netflix charts last week because not a lot of people had seen it it's a western about an older man who has kind of gone into hiding and some some ruffians return to claim something and he has to kind of like fight back against them.

1:17:10Very clever movie. Very, very well made. So Potsy's new movie is this film that has been a blacklist script for a long time. And the premise of the movie is that it's almost entirely dialogue free. And so it's set in Detroit in 1977. It's like a classic crime revenge story about a hulking man who falls in love with a young woman who's played by Shailene Woodley in the film, Alan Richardson plays the guy and they're starting a life together. And then we see in flashback that in fact, Alan Richardson's character has taken Shailene Woodley from her ex-boyfriend who is a very abusive man who's played by Ben Foster, the great Ben Foster.

1:17:54And the movie plays out largely with 70s needle drops and a lot of kind of foley sound effects and less than 10 lines of dialogue. So it is lots of slow motion action at times very beautiful and painterly at times kind of agonizing to sit through with its lack of narrative and dialogue propulsion all the actors look good it's coherent you can follow the story very easily some of the music is really good there's a couple of needle drops that are like wow how did you afford this like a Fleetwood Mac song plays a very prominent role in the middle of this movie it is co-produced by third man which is Jack White's record label and production company and you know set in Detroit and there is a little bit of like when you're listening to a dumb but amazing White Stripes song where you're just like this is just sick dude but like you can't really get beyond that in terms of analysis it's just like these power chords are really hitting hard right now and I really really wanted to like it because I really want there to be like some formal some form breaking in mainstream style movies like this is a bit of a risk to do a movie like this it doesn't ultimately hang together all that well and some of it is a little preposterous as you're going through it it's extremely violent very like as violent as a john wick movie like there's this long sequence where you watch richson and his two buddies um filling shotgun shells with like pennies and nickels so that there's a more explosive range on the shotguns that is more damaging to people um a couple of good car chases in the movie i don't know i it's one of those things where like i'll root for this because it's just a little bit different more so than I Will something that is a, you know, it's not the most narratively enlightened movie, but the filmmaking is pretty good.

1:19:44There are moments where you can feel yourself kind of like bopping along to it because of the way that the music is used. Had me thinking about what a weird turn Shailene Woodley's career has taken, where she's just like... Very strange. The heroin-addicted dame in this silent film, basically. Like, it's a real nothing part. It's a real nothing part for all the characters, obviously. They're meant to be archetypal. They're not meant to be real people. But Ben Foster's doing a lot because he's such a gestural actor and with a mustache and a glass in his hand and a cigar, he can do a lot as a performer.

1:20:13He's such a gifted actor. And he can play those kind of big chords, big notes. But Shailene Woodley, we just talked about The Descendants last week. I'm like, what happened? It's very strange. I mean, Big Little Lies happened. Huge show. huge show but she doesn't she's not one of the fun moms no and then it feels like she just took a bunch of different parts that didn't quite work remember the movie she made with Jodie Foster where is Jodie Foster the translator there's there are a number of things where you're like on paper nothing here is offensive uh huh you know the Mauritanian yes and but just nothing hits and nothing hits and nothing hits she dated Aaron Rodgers for a little so that she did answers you know that has questions and no answers but she was she was the wife in ferrari she was the wife in dumb money she's the wife in motor city like she's just kind of been cast into that part i mean how old is she she can't even be 40 yet no she's 34 30 yeah she just turned 35 i mean that's that's it's weird um so i felt bad about that okay what's next anything else that you've seen here that you want to get into well i saw voicemails for isabel i did as well we must talk about this let's talk about it okay it's on the Netflix streaming service right now yeah this is our second Zoe Deutsch film yes directed and written by Leah McKendrick and this is kind of the biggest Netflix rom-com entry of the summer I would say and it stars Zoe Deutsch Nick Robinson of Love Simon fame among others yes and Lucas Gage who was also in People We Meet on vacation, right?

1:21:57Which was the Netflix rom-com of the winter. Yeah. So did you know the premise of this going in? No, I did not. I didn't either. So it's Zoe Deutsch plays a young woman who has a younger sister who is ill with cystic fibrosis. And so the first 20 to 30 minutes of the movie are about their sisterly bond and being sisters. and it's like an illness movie, right? And then, spoiler alert, I guess, but it's in the beginning of the movie, her sister does die. So I thought I was watching a rom-com and then I was watching like a very sad and, you know, movingly, but still somewhat broad, Paul Mark-esque, like, you know, we are, sad things happen.

1:22:47Just very Angel Studios vibe. And then she dies. And so Zoe Deutch's character can't let go and or can't let she's grieving. That's that's rude to say. It's very soon afterwards. So she keeps calling to leave her sister voicemails. And then the other guy gets a new phone at work and he receives the voicemails. And the minute you see his new phone, you're just like, oh, no, I can't believe that this is what you're doing. And then that's just what they do for 90 minutes. and well I mean specifically what happens is that he falls in love with her by listening to her that's what you know as soon as you see the voicemail you're like oh no you see the phone and you're like oh he's gonna get the voicemails and fall in love with her and then they're gonna meet and he's and then he won't tell her and then they'll fall out and then they like will get back together you can see the plot you know the beats of the whole thing agreed uh which is not always bad again like every genre has its has its formula and it's what you do with it but there's something about it being so obvious and so just like oh no he's gonna get the phone all at once the part when they broke up i was like let's just end the movie yeah you know like i i know exactly what's gonna happen it's fine like it's totally fine like i it's not this movie isn't bad this is this is it's kind of similar to people we meet on vacation i'm like i get why these movies are really working for Netflix.

1:24:15Yeah. You know, there is a lane for this kind of movie. Zoe Deutsch and Nick Robinson are both pretty good. Pretty charming. And, and they have chemistry. They have chemistry. She gets a bit wide berth to be very, there's a pretty zany lead character. Yeah. She's a chef. She's working underneath. Well, right. But so, so they together and even some of the jokes and some of the, the way that she talks to him and like the voicemails themselves are funny and they have a vibe. This feels very, this whole movie feels very, like, TikTokified to me where her subplot, she's a chef and she's a chef in Nick Offerman's kitchen.

1:24:56And so they're doing bear send-up and she's doing lots of, she makes, you know, another friend in the kitchen but doesn't. And it's like, it just feels very like, what's the trendy job right now? What's the thing that we can all do? It's like, you know, an aspiring chef. And then when she actually makes her dreams come true with her dead sister's college fund, it's to open a dessert nacho truck in Austin. Yeah. I had some issues with that. I'm going to tell you what, I'm intrigued by the premise. Dessert nachos, not familiar with them. Didn't know that was a thing. I would eat a dessert nacho.

1:25:38I mean, it's not that I would not eat a dessert nacho. And to your point about this character is like whimsical or whatever. She's a bit of a goof. Yeah. She doesn't open, you know, like a taco stand. But also there's a whole premise because she allegedly lives in San Francisco. That's where the Nick Offerman restaurant is. Even though she, her view of the Golden Gate Bridge is a bridge. It's a CGI bridge. Yeah. Which also happened in the Netflix. the Reese Witherspoon Ashton Kutcher rom-com directed by Aline Brush McKenna where he moves to Brooklyn and is supposed to live in Dumbo and have the Brooklyn Bridge behind him and it's just like a poster yeah what's that movie called uh My Place or Yours Your Place or Mine yeah um anyway so she lives in San Francisco and they bond over how there aren't good breakfast tacos in San Francisco but she won't make a breakfast taco truck.

1:26:37Instead, she has to do dessert nachos. Why does it have to be so quirky and stupid? Well, it's because in the... I'm glad we're getting into the plot of this. In her final moments in the kitchen, in the film, where she loses a competition to be elevated to become a baker, she does land on sort of like a formula, an inspiration point for the kind of food that she wants to make, which is maybe more sweet than savory. Right. And so she leans into that sweetness. I gotta be honest, The dessert nachos was my number one takeaway from the movie. I was like, I am interested. Really? This was such bullshit.

1:27:13Can't you see Cute Pearl on Instagram being like, got home from a long day working, and here I just threw together some dessert nachos. That's your anxiety about living in that influencer culture. Me as a man who likes nachos and likes dessert. Let me try it. Just let me try it. $14 for Ubi. this is not a business model. She's parked somewhere in Austin. I mean, I guess she can't make breakfast tacos if she's moving back to Austin because that is a very established community. Yeah, then you're battling Veracruz. You don't want to battle Veracruz. But she's parked in the wrong place with her dessert truck in Austin making these weird nachos.

1:27:51I don't, it doesn't, I don't think that that truck is going to be there in a couple of years. Interesting thing here. This movie was produced by Sony and it has a little bit of the K-pop Demon Hunters thing where I'm like, this is more of a real movie. than some of these other movies that I've seen like it. And I think People We Meet on Vacation was the same way. I think it was from the Sony partnership that the studios have, which is really interesting. And I'm curious how long this goes on because obviously Sony being able to license their movies to Netflix is very beneficial for both parties.

1:28:18Netflix pays a lot of money for those movies. These movies that are made and they're like, it almost feels like the coin is in the air until they finish the movie on deciding where it's going to live and whether or not it's going to be theatrical or not. I know that's almost certainly not the case, but I do feel like a lot of films that we end up talking about in these episodes are in that kind of nether zone where like a lot of people saw this. They never thought about it again, but that doesn't mean it was unsuccessful. Right. You know, like Eileen and I watched this together and we were like, not bad, you know, not good, but definitely not bad.

1:28:54And I'm glad that we got to sit here together and she had a cocktail and I had a glass of wine and everything went great. and then we went to the next day in our lives, you know, and then I went over the cliff and then that was that. Not against it. Zoe Deutsch, I still don't know. Never been offended by her performance. I think she's actually taken some interesting risks in the 2020s and a lot of those risks are forgotten because of COVID, but she'd made some funky movies in the early 2020s. You know, obviously, everybody wants some Love Her Forever. Set It Up. Set It Up, an all-time classic based on The Ringer and Graylin.

1:29:27Yeah, like from 10 years ago. she actually I had a I had a conversation on the Ankler pod this morning with Sean McNulty about this he asked me about Alan Richardson he was like why isn't Alan Richardson a movie star he's on Reacher it's one of the biggest streaming shows in the world the third season he told me the third season of Reacher is the like the second highest rated third season of any show in the last 10 years that's a crazy stat but if you look at the movies he's made like he was in War Machine earlier this year on Netflix which is a huge movie on Netflix we never even talked about it on this show he's going to be in a movie later this year for Amazon with Arnold Schwarzenegger.

1:30:00I think Man with a Bag. It's like a holiday Christmas movie. And we were talking about how there's like a strain of streaming movie stars. And I thought this could be an episode for us where I'm like, Jennifer Lopez is just a streaming movie star now. Yeah. That's all she does. Zoe Deutsch is a streaming movie star. This is what she does. She's probably not going to top line a theatrically released studio movie for the rest of her career. She's probably not going to be the first name on the poster. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so. What was the young woman's name who was in People We Meet on Vacation?

1:30:27Emily Bader thank you Emily Bader like she's probably at an interesting pivot point here where she's got to figure out do I want to lean into and isn't what's she doing the 13 ongoing 13 going on 30 reboot she is but she's also doing the movie about Mia Hamm the female soccer player as well but that's a Netflix film I think that's her next film yeah so and the 13 going on 30 reboot is also a Netflix is it okay yeah and so this is and obviously Millie Bobby Brown is an example of this there is now a real true contingent of people. I would argue that people like John Cena, he's a streaming movie star to me.

1:31:02He's been in the Fast and the Furious movies, but if you look at the films he's been making in the last few years, like we just saw the trailer for Matchbox, the Apple movie, that's a streaming movie. This is a new anthropological thing that we have in movie culture. And some people are really good at it and they're thriving in it. Like, I'm not going to take anything away from J-Lo. She's going to make the same kind of movie for the next 10 years and they're all going to work. Yeah, sort of. I mean, Office Romance sort of worked. I just, you can see where the corners are being cut. And you can also see that in plenty of theatrical movies at this point, because these types of movies, romantic comedies in particular, are not going to be billion-dollar movies.

1:31:42And thus, you can't invest as much in them. But I don't know. Like, I think that all of them, you can feel the corners being cut. And I do feel in the situations and the setups, they have become a little more I mean maybe it's just that they're younger honestly and we're old and we are both off the cliff emotionally if not literally but all of the ways in which they're trying to check the box of this will fit on Netflix and also you know be clipped out on TikTok and be useful on Instagram and this has to do with this meme and this has to do with just the actual way that they are constructed and the types of stories and how everything gets meshed together and that this is you know as much like a terminal illness movie as it is a romantic comedy yeah but then also has a weird subplot about an online podcaster that we didn't even talk about that's right um which it just they it's kind of like the male alex cooper yeah yeah i guess so but they just all feel a little not slicker but less you know i'm not making like a qualitative statement of appreciation for them.

1:32:51But I do think that it is an evolution of what movies are, you know, that a lot of people only watch movies like this. Like if you're a parent and you've got young kids and movies are not the center of your life, you're more likely to watch something like this than anything else. And that is just like an interesting, maybe it is something I'll write about to kind of explore it more. But I do think that when Sean was asking me about that this morning, I was like, oh yeah, Alan Richardson's probably not going to be, he's not going to be Arnold Schwarzenegger, you know, setting aside that we don't even really want like muscle men as our leading men anymore, like Cena and Momoa and all those guys, they're not at the top of the pecking order in terms of movie stars.

1:33:28It's like Pattinson and Gosling and Tom Holland, like a lot of pretty boys. It's not, that's, that's the flavor of the month in terms of what a movie star is to us. But I, I find it interesting that there is a whole other wing that maybe we wouldn't even adequately recognize on something like 35 under or over on the movie stars list. Right, right. Because it is, I mean, it is the merging of, of into TV movies almost. And that what used to be kind of like the hallmark or just, or like made TV for TV, that was a genre that we had. And now that everything is on streaming and streaming is movies and movies are TV and it all just kind of gets mushed together.

1:34:05I agree with you that it's a separate category. I just, you know, J-Lo was in actually good movies once upon a time. She was. She was. Yeah. When I was a kid, the TV movie stars were like Shannon Tweed. Are you familiar with Shannon Tweed? I remember Shannon Tweed. Yeah. She was in a lot of erotic thrillers that were made cheaply and featured her removing her top. Just wanted to let you guys know about that. You know about Shannon Tweed, Jack? I'm unfamiliar. Okay. Look into it. I want to speak briefly about The Samurai and the Prisoner. Okay. Which I saw before Cannes, but is finally opening now and is very much worth people's time.

1:34:40Kiyoshi Kurosawa, who we talked about last year a bit with Adam Naiman on the show. His new film, a bit of a zag from him, set in 16th century Japan. It follows a lord whose castle is besieged. He's in the middle of a violent conflict. He takes a prisoner during this conflict. And then the movie, in four separate acts, I think you would enjoy this, turns into kind of what's been described as like Columbo in feudal Japan, where he has to solve mysteries and crimes within the walls of his castle. and the prisoner that he has taken is sort of like the Watson to his Sherlock Holmes. And really interesting movie that takes a pretty hard turn in the third act and gets away from this like classic mystery box construction.

1:35:25But I really liked, and I was a little bit surprised by it, and it was not what I was expecting. You know, Kiyoshi Kurosawa makes like really dark, psychologically probing horror or horror adjacent stories like Pulse. and this was like a little bit more elegant a little bit quieter and then has one very shocking and exciting moment that I won't spoil for people but if more people check this movie out maybe we can talk about it more in depth a little further down the line did you skip Sheep in the Box? Did we talk about this? I did because it's only playing in one theater but you didn't see it can I didn't yeah you specifically were like no go see something else so I did I can't recommend it it's Coriada's new movie Neon released it over the weekend very very limited I don't think very many people are going to see it.

1:36:09It's about a young couple who've lost a son who are replacing him with a sort of an AI android bot. And this humanoid robot comes to show them things about their life in the world for better or for worse. And I thought it was pretty much a fiasco. It sounds right up Amanda's alley too. Yeah, it was really, really bad. And from a director whose work I've really liked over the years. And so I was really, really bummed about that. Did you see Late Fame? I did. Okay, you added this, right? Yeah, I added it. It's not out till next week, so. Well, let's talk about it a little bit since we won't be together talking about new releases other than Spider-Man for like a month.

1:36:46Yeah, so this is directed by Kent Jones and then written by Sammy Birch who wrote May, December. Yep. And is an adaptation of a novel, but it stars Willem Dafoe and Greta Lee and others. And Willem Dafoe is a post office worker who in the late 70s wrote a collection of poems that a new young group of artists and thinkers in New York City discover and they make contact with him. And so it's him discovering a sort of success and fame later in life. And then Greta Lee is also there. I'm curious what you thought of this. I saw it.

1:37:32When Willem Dafoe is on the screen, I am never going to look away and there is a little bit of a Whit Stillman-esque quality to the group and the portrayal of the group that I really enjoyed I love Greta Lee and at points I was like what this is completely miscast and at other points I was like wow I didn't know that Greta Lee could do that and I think also that this movie which is I would say like visually modest, you know, not ugly, but like not trying to do a lot, does understand how to use her as like an incredibly beautiful person, almost as like a special effect. So I appreciated that. I mean, I was glad that I was glad I saw it.

1:38:17Yeah, I thought it was interesting. I thought it was not totally successful. I had Kent on the show some years back for his last film, which I thought was very, very good. And he's an extraordinary film critic and longtime advocate for movies and he's kind of shifted fully into making feature films. I think it's a movie that thinks it has like a slightly stronger trick than it has because we come to find out that the group of people who are supporting this lost poet are like kind of posers, you know, that they're not really these sophisticated, cultured men of letters that they're kind of like, they're kind of clout chasing in a slightly more pretentious way and that that's meant to reveal something about the inherent nature of like cultural criticism and the idea of trying to recreate bygone eras and how none of those things can be recreated and how real were they in the first place.

1:39:14The stuff that it works best to me in the movie, by the way, the novel is written by Arthur Schnitzler who wrote Traum Novell, which is what Eyes Wide Shut is based on. So this is like a very old story and Sammy Birch is kind of updating it to a more modern New York. But Willem Dafoe's character interacting with his friends from the post office in the bars after he has gotten a taste of that fame, that stuff I thought was really interesting. And there's a really good cast of character actors that are surrounding him in those scenes. And I've been working on this thing about Abel Farrar and so I've been watching a lot of Willem Dafoe movies and he's like, he's so fucking good.

1:39:49And he's so good in every single movie. Like I totally echo what you just said where he's the most watchable actor and he can do the ghoulish, freakish stuff in all the Robert Eggers movies, but it's movies like this where he's just like a very quiet, still man who doesn't really have even much to say in the movie and is sort of amused that he's really good. There's one other scene in this movie that I just remembered that I loved, which is the meeting with Jake Lacey, who is offering to be his agent. Incredible, it's so good. That scene is fantastic. Yeah, and Jake Lacey, like, makes, like, a couple very interesting choices of how he plays it.

1:40:19And it's, like, very knowing, but also a little unexpected. and they're really very smart. Yeah, this movie has a few moments like that. I was like, goddamn, if you could just put like two or three more moments like this, this movie would be really quite special. But I liked it too. I'm glad that I saw it. All right, that more or less does it for us. We've talked through a lot of movies here. It's going to be a long time before we talk about any non-Spider-Man film. Have you considered that? I have, because you're going on vacation. I'm going on vacation, and then I'm going on vacation. Then you're going on vacation, yeah.

1:40:49Yeah, but there will still be movies. We'll just be seeing them separately. Why do you think there's so many movies in August this year? Is it because everyone cleared out for the Odyssey? I guess so. I mean, it does seem that the movies that didn't clear out for the Odyssey are suffering. So that was probably a wise thing to do. And, you know, I do wonder how much of it is programming. It's really, really hard to get a spot at a movie theater right now, I think, because they just want to show the Odyssey. You're right. It is. I mean, just to take a very brief glance at August. I mean, on the 7th, we've got One Night Only, Super Troopers 3, Tony, Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, Ice Cream Man, Late Fame, which we just talked about.

1:41:27Then on the 14th, End of Oak Street, Rivals of Amzia King, Don't Say Good Luck, The Wrong Girls, Nimrods, 21st, Insidious, Out of the Further, Mutiny, Spa Weekend, It Ends. There's just a lot of stuff coming out. We'll cover some of it. What are you most sad to be missing? End of Oak Street. I think, well, and I really, really liked Camp Miasma. Yeah. So I'm sad to miss that too. Yeah. Maybe we'll have reason to talk about them later in the year. Yeah, I hope so. Okay. Let's go now to my conversation with Greg Araki.

1:42:02So happy to have Greg Araki on the show for the first time. And it's the first time because you haven't made a film in 12 years. How long has the show been around? The show's been around for 10 years. Okay. So we just missed you. Wait, wait. Do you not do TV? No. Okay. Just films only. I only do films. Feature films only. But that's what I wanted to ask you about. So you spent a lot of time making TV in that intervening 12 years. Did you learn anything making television that helped you as a film director? Oh, absolutely. Like what? It was huge. I mean, it was like, I mean, one of the reasons, you know, people are like, where have you been for 12 years?

1:42:36I've been here doing the same thing. I mean, I made Now Apocalypse, which is my star show. It was 10 episodes, 10 half-hour episodes. I wrote and directed all 10. and it was literally like making three movies it was like the biggest thing i've ever done the most challenging thing i've ever done but my work in tv has really um helped me a lot as a filmmaker because i feel as a filmmaker more confident and like faster more so i mean i've always been fast i've always been resourceful because i'm making new movies but um after tv you know we shot 10 episodes in like 40 days. Like we were just blazing through this shit.

1:43:19And for people who've seen New Apocalypse, it's not just like two people in a room talking. It's like aliens and crazy sex scenes and like three ways and orgies. I mean, it's got everything in it. And yeah, so it was a very ambitious show and we did it because I really applied all of my indie knowledge. It was a lot of my crew from my movie Kaboom that I did in 2008, 2009. So it was a lot of those, what I call my A-team. And some of your actors too. Yeah, I worked with a lot of the same actors over and over again. And so it was the A-team. And also working in TV, you know, the pace of TV is very different than working in like, you know, real feature films without like a big budget.

1:44:12So we were shooting like 10, 11 pages a day. I mean, this movie, in fact, is like the biggest budget I've ever had. But the fewest shooting days. We shot in like 17 days. So we were like cranking it out there. And I can only do that because of the TV work I've done. And I really, really know what I'm doing now. In that time when you were working on that series and directing some episodic television, Were you like desperate to make another indie movie or any movie or is that sort of like you were like very happy working on that stuff in that period? I mean, Now Pockums was literally a dream of mine.

1:44:50I wanted to make a TV show, my own TV show since Twin Peaks, since I'd been in a movie in the 90s called Nowhere. Nowhere was actually a pilot for a TV show and I had actually developed it as a TV show. So I've been wanting to do a show like that for decades. so it was really just an incredible dream come true to do it and stars was actually fantastic to work with they let me do anything i wanted they had no notes they just like like let me be as crazy as like sexual and as like you know queer and everything that we could be so it was it was kind of a really ideal sort of scenario for me i feel like for the longest time you were identified as a voice of a generation kind of filmmaker.

1:45:37You know, you were labeled as a person. A voice of a generation, kind of a voice of a generation, or kind, that kind of film. You were that kind of filmmaker, not kind of a voice of a generation. Kind of a generation. You were the kind of filmmaker who was the voice of a generation. And, you know, you're a little older now and a lot of your films are about young people. All your films are about young people. And you're making films about young people still. So do you feel like now Now that I'm old? But is it like – is it a provocation to old people? Is it a reflection of something that you've observed in young people?

1:46:09I feel like, you know, the difference is when I was making – yeah, I was always older than the – I mean except for, you know, my first movie, which is about like angst-ridden 25-year-olds. I was an angst-ridden 25-year-old when I made that movie. But progressively, you know, when I did the Teen Apocalypse trilogy in the 90s, I was like in my 30s. but I've always had the advantage of, I guess it's an advantage or maybe it's a disadvantage for some people. I've always had like the advantage of having a very young spirit, but also the ability of like the wisdom of being older and being able, I know, I remember when I made Kaboom, it was very much that, like it was very much feeling for those characters, remembering what that feeling is like of being young, being confused, being sexually frustrated or sexually ambiguous or whatever those you know all those characters in that movie but it was nostalgic for me and it was a distant there was the the distance of time you know and like sort of looking back on those years a little bit in in a in a sort of through a sort of hazy filter and like and where you sort of really appreciate those times that are like confusing they're traumatic and it's very much um i want your sex is the same thing it's like you know cooper's character says you ruined my life you destroyed me you know i mean but it is very much in that moment he kind of can't see the forest for the trees and being older, I see the forest.

1:47:48You know what I mean? Like I know it's kind of, to me, that's a major theme in I Want Your Sex. It's like when Cooper's character is 45, he's going to look back on Erica Tracy and go, what the fuck was that? Like, how did that happen? That was such a crazy time. Like what, what, I don't even, you know, I don't even know what hit me. But at the same time, but I'm glad it happened. You know what I mean? Like the experience of that changed me, you know what I mean? And I wouldn't give it up for the world, you know what I mean? Like that to me is kind of where I'm at in my sort of reflective golden years, me and Madonna, I guess.

1:48:29But the idea of being like having some wisdom of age, but still remembering like, you know, those feelings of being uncertain, confused. And, you know, when I was talking to Cooper about his character, his character, you know, was very much kind of, for me personally, kind of based on myself when I was his age. You know, and like this young artistic kid, not sure of myself, not sure what's going to happen to me, not sure what I want to do. Cooper went out and got his ear pierced for the movie. We gave him these hand tattoos. So there was a lot of me in that character and it was very kind of fun and nostalgic to think back to that.

1:49:18And then also, you know, the Erica Tracy character is also very much me. Yeah. Very much patterned after my own work. You know, that way she's very controversial, very provocative. Her work's about sex, sexuality. The things she says in interviews are literally quotations of things I've said in interviews. So it's – I'm very close to both of those characters. I like the idea of splitting the atom of yourself into two people. But when I – And they have that weird conversation. You know, they're like talking to each other. It was just – you know, there's – that aspect of the movie was really super fun for me.

1:49:56It's surprising though to hear you talk about identifying, reflecting yourself in the Cooper character. Because when I think of you as somebody who's like watching the Teen Apocalypse Trilogy when I was a teenager, I think of you as like a really bold libertine, you know, like somebody who's like fearless about who they are and what they believe in. Like Erica Tracy, right? Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, do you feel like you've been putting that part of yourself in your movies all along the way? Or is this like the first time you've really located that? There's always been, you know, I've always said that all my characters are always like a part of me and an aspect of me.

1:50:30I mean, certainly there is the kind of punk rock, like, artistic, fuck you kid that I've always been my whole life. You know, because that punk music, new wave music, that whole alternative sensibility was so formative to me because it was literally right when I was Cooper's age. I mean, that was one of the cool things about the movie is that the Pretender song that's in the movie came out when I was that age. Like that song is like so meaningful to me in that way. That's such an underrated Pretenders song too. It's like really early on that record. I love that song. I love that song for like literally for whatever, 40 years or 30 years.

1:51:11And yeah, and so when I was making it, it was actually in the script. I wrote it in the script and I didn't know if we would get it. I mean it is fucking the Pretenders. I literally had to write a letter to Chrissy Hynde and say, I've been the biggest fan of yours since you first came out. I saw the first Pretenders tour. I used to, when I was Cooper's age, I had the leather jacket that everyone had. And it had like a Pretenders pin on it of that first album, the White Album. And so, yeah, I said I've just been a fan forever. And this, you know, this movie in a way is me looking back on myself as a young artist.

1:51:49And, you know, you were so influential to me. and she's so cool like just super cool and just very like oh yeah she's an it's like she's an artist too you know and she's a little bit older than me but she's the same thing she's been doing it a long time and knows what it's like and I think could tell that it was genuine it wasn't some you know like beer commercial going yeah we want to use fucking you know whatever one of your songs so those first two albums are just perfection yeah I know also the yeah the second album and I saw her like I saw them when they first first first came out like I remember seeing them on the tour for the second album at the Santa Barbara County Bowl and then the first tour for the first album they were at I was at UCSB at the time and studying film and they were playing in the gym with Bow Wow Wow opening for them so I was fucking there like 81 you know it's like 1979 80 the first album so yeah it was it was you know so anyway yeah we were so fortunate to get that song in the movie I wanted to ask you about the art world because you know I've read the movie as like a real satire and so even just to hear you say Erica is a part of me and is pulling quotations from things that I've said I was trying to figure out like how sympathetic are we meant to be to Erica and to this world that she finds herself in somewhat like the pretentiousness of the way that the gallerists kind of live their lives how do you see it?

1:53:18I mean I love Erica I love her character. As I said, I'm very much – there's a lot of me in her. I mean, clearly I don't fuck my interns. She crosses a lot of lines. She's – her behavior is very questionable in parts of the movie. She does things that I would – are definitely not even in a moral gray area. They're more like a moral black hole. but you know she's passionate she's creative she's so charismatic she's such a fun character i do love her but i understand that she's flawed i understand she's inappropriate and that's actually why you know like the first time you see her in the original script like that scene happens like page 20 or something and i literally put it at the head of the movie because i wanted to set up that dynamic from the start like here's cooper's character who's like this nervous kid like oh my god i don't want to lose my first job or whatever and then she is like this larger than life kind of sex like superhero you know i mean that he's so in awe of and then she's just like i want to fuck you i mean it's like because to me that sets up from the start like that's that's the ride of this movie you know i mean like she's gonna be that character who goes to those places why um did you want olivia wilde and cooper hoffman for those parts then because they're perfect no honestly yeah i've been i've been working on this movie since um by burn blizzard like before this script first came to me as a spec script in like 2012 or 2013 and it was a very different movie like it was originally a female intern and a male boss and um it was just a kind as more as pitched to me it's like a comic like 50 shades of gray okay and so it was a very different movie and there was a version of it that we almost made in like 2015 2016 but then it fell apart like indie movies always do and in the meanwhile i've just been rewriting it developing it it's been changing changing changing the original script did not have the mansion did not have the sunset boulevard body in the pool did not have the film noir framing but did not have importantly and the most important thing was and the sex roles we like like i swapped it around 2016 2017 um the male female yeah to the male female with a male sub and a female dome because i just didn't want to have a woman getting dragged around by the hair even if it was consensual i you know i don't want to kink shame anybody but um it was just not an image i wanted to put out into the world it's also an image i feel like we've seen in movies a lot and maybe not this dynamic that you're portraying in the film yeah i mean i honestly you know you know especially now given how you know current administration and how culture is like become so awful um it was just you know i didn't the patriarchy is like absolutely real it's been real all this time it gets realer and more terrible every day and so i don't want to contribute to it in any way so it was and it's so much more interesting to me to have erica tracy be a woman you know i mean to have a female top and um it sort of gave birth to that character in terms of I see her as like a cross between Madonna and Robert Mapplethorpe.

1:56:53This larger-than-life, iconic, kind of like super charismatic, you know, and like almost bigger than their own art. You know what I mean? Like their art is almost like a byproduct of their persona, right? And so it was just really fun to write that character. And what happened was, you know, I've worked on this movie forever, like for like 12 years.

1:57:24And this recent version of the script, my manager had slipped it to Olivia's agent without really telling me. And then she's like, oh, Olivia Wilde read the script and really wants to meet. And I said, Olivia Wilde? It's like, what a fantastic idea that is, you know. because at that time this is before the invite before before we you know live in the world of Olivia Wilde I was gonna say your timing is incredible now because of the year she's starting to have yeah she's just had this well it all started at Sundance you know in January because both movies were there and but Olivia is somebody that I've always been a fan of from the days that she was the bisexual kid on the OC you know what I mean like I remember her who is that girl like she's super interesting and so I've been you know sort of following her through the years and Olivia to me is like an old school like 40s like movie star you know what I mean like Greta Garbo or Ingrid Bergman or just Rita Hayworth just those larger than life kind of figures she has so much presence and that insane bone structure you know what I mean she's just that's coming from you with incredible bone structure too compared to her bone structure but you know she's just she's just this she's just a large presence and I feel like contemporary Hollywood was a little bit didn't know what to do with her kind of like she was always playing with a hot girlfriend or the hot wife or the mistress or you know and so um so she's you know really responded to the part and we had a meeting and she was so cool and so smart and so fantastic and also just super fearless like i told her i said whoever plays this part literally just doesn't give a fuck about what what people think and she was she's i'm a hundred percent that's 110 me i'm totally there so you know i so she became attached to the movie it got financed like two days later and then we were making it and um and cooper was actually her idea and she's like oh what about cooper hopman he's like super interesting i said yeah he's great it creeps me out the idea of him being like you're fucking him he's like that the kid from licorice pizza it's so weird and but i met then i met cooper He actually lives in New York, but he flew himself here for the chemistry read.

1:59:41And in person, I mean, Cooper was so – he's so young. He was only like 21 when we made the movie. He was a baby. And – And in person, he has so much gravitas. You know, he has so much presence. And when I saw their chemistry together, I was like, okay, yeah, I totally get it. Like I didn't see – when I think of him in Licorice Pizza and how he is in Licorice Pizza versus how he is, he's like all grown up. It's not – it hasn't been that many years. But the thing about him and Olivia is they were complete like equal sparring partners. I mean like it was – Olivia is like a big presence and he's a big presence.

2:00:16So the two of them together, it was – the dynamic was fantastic and the chemistry was great. And I knew once I saw them all, that's the movie. You know what I mean? It was like I knew like right then once I saw them together that, you know, they had what they had going on between them, what the movie was. Yeah, they're wonderful together. You mentioned the framework and the sort of framing device being this sort of noir story with very obvious Sunset Boulevard illusion at the beginning of the film. Why did you include that? Like, why was that important to making the movie work? I just wanted to – I think of the movie as being a little bit of a cinematic funhouse.

2:00:55You know what I mean? Like there's parts of the movie – like the film war thing to me is very like Almodovar, like late 80s. Those late 80s Almodovar movies like Matador, Law of Desire. Those are a huge, huge, huge influence on me. Hypersexual, big feelings. But also they have that kind of, I call it like preposterous film war, where the film war is like a narrative device sort of, but it doesn't really make sense. But a lot of film war does not make sense. Like Maltese Falcon does not make any sense. I mean, it's so convoluted and so like, wait, what in the, who? And so. Those movies are also obsessed with movies.

2:01:34Yeah. Those Almodovar movies, right? For sure. Just sort of like your movie is a little obsessed with movies. This movie is very obsessed with movies. It's like, you know, at that old movie, Secretary, it's just like all, there's so many things going on in it. Yeah. So, and that was part of it is like this sort of fun house. Like we called the interrogation room, the seven room, because it was literally like straight out of, like there was just everything, like things were in the movie. you don't want to say in a campy way or self-conscious way but there is definitely an awareness of film history like you know where like all of these um where all of the references come from somebody said a critic the other day i was talking to said something super interesting to me like yeah i really got that um mulholland drive moment in the movie i said what mulholland i mean obviously i'm a huge david lynch fan and he's like he's like one of my major influences and he's like you know that scene where they're doubling each other and she's like putting the lipstick on him and the wig and all that i'm all oh wow that yeah that's very very but it was like something that i was describing it to him as like all of that stuff is so much seeped into my psyche i'm not even aware of it you know i mean like there's certain times like sunset boulevard pool that's a quotation you know in the doom generation when margaret hook, it's her eye slashed and there's the blood.

2:03:00That's like a quotation of Potemkin. Yeah. I mean, there's certain ones, moments that are quotations and certain moments that are literally just part of my brain at this point that I'm not even aware that they're there, but they're clearly there. I was thinking about your tone over the years and rewatching some of the movies. And I feel like I Want Your Sex kind of falls like right into your sweet spot where it's like a little bit screwball, a little bit ironic, but also deeply sincere at the same time. But you've kind of bounced around in the tone in a lot of the films over the years like you've done straight pure drama you've done out kind of more outlandish comedy like how do you think about how to apply the different tones when you're choosing a project or writing a movie it's very organic it's not something that's it's not something that i applied to the movie this movie in particular i knew that i wanted to do something especially as the script developed i knew they wanted to make something kind of fun kind of pop for me because the world is such a shit storm right now like i personally want to go to movies don't want to see something super dystopian super dark super like super it's funny for me to say it but apocalyptic because the world's fucking apocalyptic like new york was like on fire like last week you know i mean it's just like i don't want to see the end of the world because it feels like the end of the end of the world right now so i knew i wanted to do something fun pop but smart you know and provocative still and clearly a lot on its mind you know what i hope with this movie is that it's something it was it's full of for me like queer joy like i want it to be a joyful experience i want people to go to the movies you know it's 90 minutes just it's not going to be three and a half hours it's like go in go with your friends like have a good time we just had a screening in san francisco at the castro theater and it was insane like it was like people were yelling and screaming it was like a it was like a rock concert so the energy level was so intense and so i love the idea that people can see it you know because it's coming out in 700 theaters in july 31st um that people can see it at their amc with their friends and have a good time but also i do want the movie to provoke people to challenge people and i really hope it starts conversations about because it's not just a dumb fluff movie there's a lot going on thematically there's a lot on its mind so i do want audiences to have a good time, but then, you know, go out with their friends to the bar after and argue about it, pick a side and, you know, have a, have a nice, healthy conversation about it.

2:05:46Because I do think that the, the themes of it are very important to me, at least. I, you've always spoken so well about your influences and the filmmakers that have kind of seeped into that consciousness of yours. But I do feel like your movies now are making a big impact on younger filmmakers. Like there's some very one-to-one examples i can feel people riffing on your films in the 90s and 2000s um what does that feel like to be one of the influences now well it feels i mean like incredible i mean i'm so honored and you know and thrilled that you know i see this didn't i have fans sometimes that come up to me you know and they're like oh you know i saw doom generation when i was 15 and it was like you know my lifeline and all that and honestly that's everything to me you know it's like the idea you know when we were doing the restorations of the old movies i would you know talk when i was doing my intros and stuff i'd talk about these movies you know they're all these little tiny personal art films that me and my friends made together you know i mean so the idea that we're standing here 30 years later and you're still talking about them that people that somebody out there gets the movie understands it is everything you know like i'm not like like oscar you know i mean i'm not like here to win oscars and accolade it's like the idea that somebody can understand and connect and that the movies mean something to them that's that's why i make movies you know the idea that i'm not just screaming into the movie like nobody's you know i mean the fact that it's resonating with the people that it's meant to resonate with is huge to me so the idea that you know a lot of my fans are like filmmakers musicians artists painters you know that they're inspired they inspire people creatively is is incredible to me i wanted to hear from you about the restoration of mysterious skin because that's a movie that i think really like changed people's lives I think there are a lot of people who are really deeply emotionally affected or fucked them up forever yeah or at least a lot of people a lot of survivors a lot of people who struggled saw experiences in that movie but also just people who love film like really admire that movie so it kind of coming back into the into the ether in the last year has been really interesting for me to watch like yeah it's been it's been like you know it's Olivia Wilde summer like it's like she's it's Olivia Wilde 2026 but it's like a you know a lot of Gregorio yeah Yeah, yeah.

2:08:24It's like, because Mysterious Skin is being re-released in August. And we just did, we did the remaster of it. It finished it last year. And so, yeah, it's a lot of stuff going on. Yeah, yeah. Do you like looking back at the work or not at all? I love going back and remastering the old movies. I mean, I love doing Doom. I love doing Nowhere. And I love doing Mysterious Skin because it's like those movies, we had no budget in those days to like properly finish them with like a digital intermediate. it and like all the things you can do with digital imagery and, you know, the color and the color timing and all of this and just all of the bells and whistles that you can do.

2:09:06And now the technology is so much more advanced than it was back when we made those movies. Yeah, I love being able to go back because especially for Doom and Nowhere, these existing copies were terrible. And so people are like, oh yeah, Doom is my favorite movie. what version of it did you see? Because it was theatrically released for like five minutes. Yeah. And Doom is a beautiful movie. So is Nowhere. Like the DPs did an amazing job and none of the copies of it did it any justice. So it was incredible to be able to go back to the original. We were on the IP or the IP for that, I think. But Mr.

2:09:49Skin is like the original camera, A, B, roll negative. But being able to go back to the original items and you know basically refinish the movie in a way that is technically so superior and and i'm technically so much better of a filmmaker in 2026 than i was certainly in the 90s or early 2000s so being able to go back and for me it's almost like my legacy at this point it's like you know it what after i'm dead and gone and they go back and like let's go look at Gregor Rocky's movies, I don't want them to look at some shitty bullet copy of a movie that like looks like ass. I mean, I want them to see like the good, pristine, beautiful version that is the version that I kind of want to be remembered by.

2:10:36And so for all those, all three of those movies, the new version is it and the old version should be thrown away forever. One thing I noticed while, so I rewatched Smiley Face and Doom last night. that's a that's a that's a double feature two of my faves um but i noticed this first with smiley face and and that later with doom and this is very true of i want your sex too which is just you know the camera is on top of objects and people in the film it's really really close and you you are like the king of intimacy like true physical intimacy in movies and we're in a time where like even just in the making of movies the idea of intimacy is like much more complicated about consent and like how you can shoot sex scenes and what even our relationship is to sex scenes.

2:11:21I know you're getting hit with that question a lot throughout this, but I'm curious like what your relationship is to the kind of safety around actors and filmmakers when doing this stuff versus how do you get something like in Doom, there are so many sex scenes where I feel like we're between the two people in a way that is really powerful, that really helps the film. So how do you think about that now? I mean, it's why, you know, it's, you know, it says As me and Erica Tracy says, that's why sex and sexuality are so central to my movies because that's what turns me on creatively. You know what I mean?

2:11:56And it comes from those Almodovar movies, which is – I remember seeing Law of Desire for the first time. The sex scenes in that movie, they're not graphic. You know, it's not porn. But he's capturing something in those interactions that is so intimate, so private. it like that's those are the moments that interest me as a filmmaker and you know it's funny you bring up doom generation because you know that's one of those movies that people are so like they like literally it's like they they've carried it with them all these decades right and i think part of the thing is it's like it's because you've had sex with all three of those characters you know i mean like literally somebody you've had sex with as as erica tracy says in the movie and as i've said in past movies there is a knowledge there there is a sharing there that is beyond like somebody that you have slept with knows you in a way that your mother your best friend like all the people in your life they don't know you they don't know you like that person knows you and i feel like that's why i'm so interested in sex in movies it's not about titillation it's not about exploitation it's not about pornography and thank god for there's so much porn now because if you want to watch porn just watch porn you know i mean it's like in the old days in the 80s if an actress did a top of scene i.e phoebe cates in fast times it's like that was porn and people are jacking off to you all the time you know i mean it's like in a movie now if you do there's like it frees i feel like actors to be like yeah this really is about this character in this moment and and not going to be taken out of context on a, you know, a freeze, a blurry freeze frame of me and 13-year-olds jacking off to it.

2:13:43So I feel like that in a way is, you know, for me as a filmmaker, that's why my movies have always been about that. And, you know, I had sex scenes in my movies from almost the very start and I'm just super comfortable with them now. You know, it's like just the experience of doing it so many times. I know, you know, for people that have actors and directors, people who have done sex things, they're not sexy. They're not fun. It's another day at the office, but it's an important day, you know. And me as a director, because I'm very comfortable, I'm very specific about what is going to be seen, what's not going to be seen.

2:14:22And, you know, it's like this is the first film where I've had an intimacy coordinator. It was Yehuda Duendes, and he's fantastic. but it they're really there for the actors because it's literally if because i there are actors who are don't want an emergency coordinator and it's like don't don't need one and also don't want one you know they don't want someone between me and them and um but there are others actors that do you know so i feel like it's really i think 100 leave it up to them and because it's my job as the director is to make sure my sets are as safe and comfortable as they can possibly be because actors are so vulnerable you know they're literally physically naked and emotionally naked and like doing these very intimate having these very intimate moments and so for me to capture with my camera I need it needs to be as safe as it can possibly be so I always tell my actors I always say that it doesn't matter how busy I am like what just happened on set how fucked up everything that sets on fire or whatever you can always pull me aside you can i you i always have your back like you can always pull me aside and if you need a private conversation like there's a weird vibe on set or somebody's looking at me where or something this is happening right now and it makes me uncomfortable just listen let me know you know i mean i'm always there for you because i do think i do really feel for actors and the notion that you know what you know i i could never do it.

2:15:52I could never do what actors do. You know, it's like they're really putting themselves out there, you know. And so, yeah, I'm just grateful that I've got to work with all the fantastic actors I've worked with in my life. I was wondering if your career turned out the way you thought it would when you were at UCSB. Like, is it, is this, are these, these are the movies you thought you'd make? Is this who you, did you, were you going to be a studio director? Like, how did you think about what your life would be? It's funny, I was just talking about this the other day because it's like you know i um if i could you know go back to the 19 20 year old me that you know the cooper age of cooper in the movie or cooper's a little bit older in the movie but that starry-eyed you know kid in studying film at ucsb he was like really into jean-luc godard and all that um and tell that person these are all the things that are going to happen to you these are all the movies you're going to make you're going to be in the can't film festival getting like a standing ovation you're going to be at sundance like 10 times you're going to do this you're going to do that i would be like you're fucking on crack like that's never going to happen you know i mean i couldn't can't even imagine like that like it's like when i was i was just hoping to do something you know i mean like not totally like i don't fall between the cracks or something.

2:17:14I just feel like, you know, weirdly in a way, I just feel so fortunate and so privileged that, you know, I was born at the exact right time. Like my career has taken back, taken place. My life has taken back place at the exact right time. Like literally I was, this is an undergraduate UC Santa Barbara at 19, 20 years old when punk rock music, new wave music, alternative culture was born, exploded. And for me as a young artist or a young wannabe artist, that sensibility of like, fuck the mainstream, fuck everybody, do your own thing, march your own drummer. You know, it's like, you know, that was, that formed me.

2:18:01That made me who I am. And it absolutely was the biggest influence in my life. And then, you know, I started making these indie movies in sort of the mid-80s when Stranger in Paradise came out. You know, Chan is missing. She's got a habit. It's like, oh, how weird. Like these little fucking black and white movies. You know what I mean? They're not winning Oscars or anything, but people are going to the theater and watching about it and watching them and talking about them. And I know from my generation, like Rick Linklater, Gus Van Sant, Anderson Anders, we all saw Stranger in Paradise and we all thought the same thing of like, holy shit.

2:18:38Like, what the hell? Like, you know, before that, there was, of course, John Waters and all of that. You know, it's, so there, I just came at like, so that happened. Then the 90s happened. Sundance happened. I was right in the middle of all of that. You know, it's just like, I just was always kind of in the right place at the right time. So, you know, I feel so fortunate in the sense that, yeah, I don't know. I honestly don't know anybody. I mean I mean everybody has a different career you know like I'm friends with Rick Linkletter Gus Van Sant like all these people we've all had different careers but like I don't think I don't know I think I'm I'm so grateful for the films I've made and what I've been able to do in my short time here it's weird I was talking to a friend of mine when because you know David Lynch died Jean-Luc Godard died it's just like oh man it's just like that's so sad it's like passing of an era and I'm like you know it's certainly sad that they're gone, but it's like, I'm like, what a fucking legacy.

2:19:41You know what I mean? Like two men, they, you know, literally changed the course of fucking cinema forever. One person, you know, you can't ask for anything more than that. Like you're one man and you're like, just changed the fucking game for everybody. And like, that's incredible. So for the fact that two of my idols did that, it's just like, yeah, it's just like amazing. We end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what's the last great thing they've seen. Are you still an active cinephile? I don't go to the movie as much as I should. I am. The thing is, is that you get to this. I don't want to sound like.

2:20:21Just be honest. I don't want to sound like someone's cynical fucking asshole. But I'm in the WGA, the DGA, the Academy, the TV Academy. I hit every screener manageable. Award scenes never ends. and you just get inundated with so many fucking movies, so much stuff. So, yeah, I have not seen as much stuff as I should. I try to keep up. I am like everybody. I do this thing. I call it the at-home version because I love to be at home and not be traveling. Like whenever like Cannes Film Festival happens, Sundance happens, and I'm not there, I always do the at-home version and like watch. Like, oh, what's this film?

2:20:58Oh, who's this filmmaker? Oh, oh, that person's a Sundance this year. You know what I mean? Like I like doing the at-home version and like, you know, it's from home. Have you done a good at-home version of someone recently? What's something you've seen? There's always, I just, what it is, is it's sort of like, I mean, and you know, I don't know, I mean, because I have friends that are like, oh yeah, they go to Cannes every year, they go to Toronto every year, they're out in the trenches doing it. I don't, I'm not one of those people that I feel like I need to be the first person to see it. Like, I saw that at the film that's on Netflix for anybody, you know?

2:21:28I like, it's like, I don't, I can just see it when it comes out or see it when I catch up to it. So it's like I'm not the first person, but yeah. Is there anything you have seen that you have really liked? Let me think. It can be an old movie too. It doesn't have to be a new movie. It could just be something you've revisited. I'm trying to think of something that I've seen like recently that really, I can't think of anything off the top of my head. Everyone always gets stage fright here. I'm going to edit around your stage fright. No, it's so hard to like, like boom, like off the top of my head, like just come up with something.

2:22:00This is why we have Letterboxd now. Yeah. So we can have a diary of what we've watched and remember what we like. Yeah, that's what I mean. Well, that's why it's funny. Like, I'll give you an example of, like, movies and how much a part of your life they're. Like, I did the Criterion Closet. And it's just like, it's just like, when you walk into the Criterion Closet, it's literally like a flood of every movie you've ever seen. You know what I mean? And you get kind of, it's just fun. They're fun to watch because it's like everybody having those moments of like, oh, yeah, I remember that. Okay, this will be an example that I haven't watched.

2:22:39That's okay. I did take it. Like, I saw that film, Chili Scenes of Winter, in the Criterion Closet. And holy fuck, I don't literally. I saw this movie when it came out in like whatever it was, 1980 maybe? It was right when I was in film school. and I just remember like loving it you know I mean and that's what I think is so magical about movies is it's just like they really become a part of you and they're a part of your life like a life experience you know I mean like they're really like that just seeing the title and seeing it on the shelf and pulling it out I was just like oh my god I remember this fucking because it takes me back to who I was when I saw that movie.

2:23:29I was literally just like this starry-eyed kid. I think I had just moved here to go to USC, like early 80s. And, yeah, it was, and then, you know, Mary Beth Hurd died recently. And, you know, I mean, it was just very, yeah, because you just, it's funny the way movies take you back like that because, you know, Chilly Sins of Winter, Mary Beth Hurd, and then she was also in Interiors, that Woody Allen movie, which was like so reviled when it came out. But I remember loving that movie when it came out because I was such a pretentious little film kid. And yeah, it's funny the way movies work in your mind that way.

2:24:07Chili Scenes of Winter is a great recommendation though. Not enough people have seen that movie. Yeah, no, it was very, because for me personally, it was a big, I think I wrote a paper about it or something because I was very, as you know, really into screwball comedy And had done a whole, kind of, like a lot of like essays and a lot of stuff about screwball comedy, what it is, like what it means, what the symbolism is, all of, like all, yeah, it was just my pet, one of my pet genres in film school. and Chilisian's winner in the context of scruple comedy is super interesting because it's sort of taking the the elements and the motifs and the themes of scruple comedy and transposing them into this other darker more naturalistic yeah naturalistic and darker and also but there is a relationship between like bringing a baby in that movie you know what I mean which was fascinating to me as a as a young film nerd.

2:25:08You answered the question. Greg, thanks so much for doing the show. I'm glad I finally came out. I was like, I'm at the top. It's just hard. I always ask, what's your fucking five favorite movies? You know what I mean? So I did that list once and I just keep going back the same list over and over because it's like, I can't think about it. But yeah. Thank you, Greg. Thank you. It's awesome. Okay. Thanks to Greg Araki. Thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on today's episode. Thanks to Lucas Cavanaugh for his production support. Later this week, with great power comes great responsibility.

2:25:36the Spider-Man brand new day. And I'm going to make Amanda rank every single Spider-Man film. See you then.

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