‘Superman’ Is Here to Save the Day. Are We Saved?

28:37And I do like James Gunn movies. Yeah. And that's really all it boils down to. Sure. I mean, like same, but in reverse. You know, like I enjoy Madonna. If Madonna positioned herself in the same way, I'd be more forgiving because I like her music more. So, but to me, this kind of framework is very common. And it also applies to the real world. I mean, this is how a lot of our world leaders position themselves to us. They say like, I'm all knowing and all powerful and I have everything. Why won't everybody stop attacking me? Right. And it's just a smart way to frame it. Or at least it's representative of a common psyche amongst the powerful.

29:15I think that's really what I'm trying to circle. That is true. And it is also, it is like the greatest weakness of otherwise deeply powerful people. Is being like, why don't you like me? Why don't you like me? Yes. So I guess there is some self-knowledge in that. Though not, I don't know. I don't know whether I think it's actually self-knowledge or just accidental. I don't know either. I don't know either. It feels unmistakable to me, but I could be wrong. James can say, I wasn't thinking of that at all. Yeah. Seems unlikely. Okay, now this might be where we diverge a little bit. Okay. So to me, the metropolis world building and the pacing of this movie is very good.

29:51This is a movie that I think looks good. It is not in New York, but it feels close enough. It's Cleveland. It's Cleveland, okay. Yeah. Many of the locations are in Cleveland, and I think it's based on Cleveland because apparently Superman also has some historic origins in Cleveland. Okay, maybe the founders are from Cleveland. The creators are from, I can't recall if the creators are from Cleveland. That makes sense. That's great. Not so far from Kansas. That would be logical. I think Metropolis looks pretty good. And I think the pacing of this movie is very good. This movie is under two hours.

30:22Yeah. We are living in the era of the two hour and 48 minute comic book movie. And we've kind of whinged about it quite a bit in the last five years. and this was pretty brisk. Why would you think I disagree with this? Well, it's because I was unbothered by the loading of the movie, I'll say, that there are a lot of characters in this movie that they are kind of like very... One of the only times I heard you sigh during the film was the introduction of the, quote, Justice Gang, which is Hawkgirl, Mr. Terrific, and the Guy Gardner version of Green Lantern. We can talk about Green Lanterns if you're interested at all.

31:02But they show up on the scene to battle a kaiju with Superman. Yeah. And it just kind of turns into a comic book movie all of a sudden. You know, what had been like a more tightly focused character study of Superman and his battle with Lex Luthor became a lot of CGI, a lot of flying around and fighting a monster. I thought that was the stuff that wasn't going to work when I was watching the trailers and I thought it worked really well. Now, it does do one thing that I don't like, which we can talk about in terms of getting less Superman. Yeah. Yes. But I think that those characters and the way that they're framed in this world is pretty mild.

31:37It's not a lot of like over-explication. There's a shocking lack of exposition in this movie. That's true, except their job and what they have to solve is the most mumbo-jumbo exposition of the whole film. Yes. So my problem with them, in addition to they show up and you're just like, oh, great. It's another superhero movie. And to me, we can talk about whether this does feel like a Marvel movie or whether it feels like a departure. I think it can be both. But, you know, I'm trained at this point, like, oh, great. OK, so here's the spinoff for the next thing. And here's like what we're setting up.

32:18And I just I sighed because I was tired of that. The other thing that those characters. well they sort of represent the engineer is it Mr. Terrific? Who's who? Mr. Terrific Mr. Terrific that's Eddie Gathege's character ends up having to spend a lot of time in like another portal universe and so just the James Gunn the James Gunn sci-fi stuff like goofy sci-fi and we all have to like build up a team and like jump some portals and make up some science and have like a lot of creatures who, you know, look a lot like humans that I know. But, you know, like, it's not my flavor. I just, like, I don't like it.

33:06I don't, I have no interest in it. I didn't like it in Guardians of the Galaxy. I don't think it's funny. I don't, I think that it looked like absolute shit, especially compared with Metropolis, which I think was, like, filmed so well. So, and those action sequences are, like, very exciting. So that was why I sighed. It's not because of the lack of, you know, exposition or the lack of... That I didn't understand. I, like, understood plenty. Yeah, yeah. I was like, ugh. I think it is a fairly understandable movie. I think these movies tend to get pretty ornate in their plotting and their MacGuffin-ing.

33:43But I do agree with you. I think the biggest flaw of the movie is a big chunk in the second act where Superman effectively is... extradited to a black site and tortured. And that's one of many real world events that he is very closely mirroring in the actions. His detainment itself is clearly a nod to the practices of ICE and illegal immigrants and the idea of taking people, government sponsored, but sort of black shadowed. Exactly. Disappearancing. Licensed out. And the American government is represented in this movie as kind of, they have faces, but they're just in one room doing what Lex Luthor tells them to do or not do.

34:32Yeah, they're bureaucratic functions. Yeah. And they're more or less being controlled by money. So we can talk about some of those aspects of the movie. I do want to talk about those aspects of the movie. But those aspects of the movie lead directly to this period where they enter a pocket universe, which Lex has created in an effort to kind of disappear his enemies. and the pocket universe is pocket universe it's not the real world it's on the verge of a black hole and it's just kind of a CGI mess and it's like a drag in a movie that otherwise I think has a lot of invention around how it wants to look and how it wants to represent Superman existing in the pop real world of Metropolis and there's a that's the only time when Mr.

35:13Terrific's exposition machine is going at all times he has to tell Lois everything that is happening it's just lots of gizmos and gadgets. It was definitely the sequence of the movie that I liked the least. I didn't like how it looked. I thought that the ideas like when he's being hauled off, I was like, oh, wow. This is pretty dramatically showing us what our life is like in a Superman movie. Yes. And that is still like actually like in Metropolis and the people are like the whatever like the mercenary crew looks a lot like ice and there is someone like it's Frank Explaining, you know, they've contracted you out so they don't have to deal with it.

35:53Exactly. So you have no rights. Like, they don't apply to you because you're not a citizen. Yeah. And then, obviously, it's a very... I think it is what you said. It is James Gunn's predilection for that kind of story stuff. It is the most Guardians aspect of the movie. We see the most characters. We see the most, like, creatures. We get introduced to Metamorpho, who's a Justice League character. Okay. who has the power to transform any part of his body to like an element. Yeah. So that's how we get kryptonite introduced to the movie. I mean, he couldn't transform himself into something that could get him out of the black site and get everyone else.

36:32I mean, he does later. It's a very good note from CinemaSins, Amanda. Plot holes, Amanda. Before we get further into the things that maybe don't work as well, let's just circle the performances. Corn sweat. Lights out. Victory. It worked. It's so good. And he also just like has a thing there, like a few shots of him where I was just like, I swooned a little, you know, which like you do need from Superman. You do. Not that Henry Cavill didn't have that, but there is something like really endearing and still also, yes, that man is, that's a cinema star. Yeah. Cavill didn't play Superman with very much humor.

37:15Right. I thought he struck the absolute right kind of figure for Superman, but I just think the writing kind of failed him over and over and over again. I wanted to enjoy him in those movies. Corn Sweat, I'll be curious to see what they do with Superman in the future because I feel like he can only work with James Gunn. Okay, yeah. If you let someone else write him, will they be able to thread the needle of this very sensitive mega power? Right. I don't know. I don't know. There are a lot of emo boys out there in like James Gunn's age group. It's true. And a lot of them are making movies now. You're not wrong about that.

37:59Rachel Brosnahan, one. Lights out once again. I would like her to take me to dinner. She's very charming. She's very appealing. I think that anything happening in the Daily Planet is very TV. I don't mean that as like an insult, but it's very like... We're moving to the next scene here. We're doing... Yes, yes. And in a way, like it is doing like plot exposition. It's plot exposition about journalism. Yeah. That's at least a great part of the creation of those characters. It's like there is literally a character whose job it is to find out what's going on. Yeah. And she gets to be the detective of the story.

38:34So she gets to draw the conclusion that in the film, the civil conflict between Baravia and Jarnapur. That sounds right. Is oriented around Lex Luthor's participation in terms of arms dealing. And that's the kind of story that a big city newspaper reporter would break. Once upon a time, when we had big city newspapers. Well, now we just get it on Substack. I was just going to say, we just have one. What if they made Lois Lane a substacker? I feel like that would actually have been an even more resonant choice in these times. I think that... Podcaster? I actually do think that the amount of real media that the movie works into this movie is tone perfect.

39:20Like, they got it right, which is... Meaning TV broadcasts. And the Fox, like the fakes Fox News. Yes, Michael Ian Black as the Tucker Carlson of this movie. Very funny. And there are references to social media and also like Superman not really understanding it. And then a great joke, the only funny part of the sci-fi world about the pocket universe as Lex Luthor's trolls who are all like, who are actually like little monkeys typing all the mean things. And that is when the, oh, this is about you, like comes on. But it was still very funny. It was very funny. Nicholas Holt. Yeah. Now, he's become a bit of a character on this show.

40:03He keeps taking these parts where he is getting beta cucked. Well, in this one, he takes this part because he wasn't going to get Superman. He auditioned for Superman. And he has said he's auditioned for many superheroes and many big time action leads over the years. And he basically never gets the role. And so instead what he gets is the part in Nosferatu, the part in Juror Number Two, you know, the part in Renfield, the part in Warm Bodies. Like he's in the genre movie. Yeah. He is the star most of the time. And yet somehow. And he's essential to selling all of the movies. Yes. But he is reactive.

40:43Yeah. You know, he is like he's the blood bag from Fury Road. He's not driving the action. Now, in this case, he does get to drive the action. Yeah. Because everything he does dictates what happens. I was a little bit skeptical of this rendition of Lex all the way up until the end. Okay. And he gets a big speech at the end. Yeah. Where they're sort of, they're having a conversation. They have it, yeah. Via FaceTime bot. No, FaceTime drone. Is it FaceTime drone or is it when they're, oh, before they come. Before they have a confrontation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When they're talking to each other. Sure.

41:21when they basically have a philosophical conversation about the character of Lex Luthor. Yeah. Which is, why is Lex so mad at Superman? Well, that's my actual one big note about - So you didn't think that explanation worked? No, the explanation did work, but it comes in at one hour and 45 minutes. It does. And everything else that they jump right into or the yada yada as the case may be, I was fine with. But him just being like so big mad at Superman and I was just like, what actually is your damage? What is, what's going on here? Yeah. And I think, and I don't blame Holt's performance for that.

41:56I think that is just basically like, that is a piece of character development that is missing from the movie until the very end of the movie. It's clearly a choice that they made. It wasn't, to me, it wasn't like a mistake. Yeah. They were just like, we're going to hide the ball on revealing any of Lex Luthor's intentions. And they're not just in the vein of Lex and Superman, the Donner Superman. Like Lex and the Donner Superman is like, world domination is my goal. I'm going to set off a series of natural disasters in California so that I can take greater control of the land in this world. Right.

42:29That that is the coin of the realm. This is a different kind of a character. But the thing is they do like do the they establish that plot and for a long time and what Lois is investigating is that he is an arms dealer. He's funding this like this invasion of another country so that he can be like the ruler over it and also get access to oil fields, not related to anything in the world at all. And they sort of position that as like, that's his motivation for a while. And then you learn that the real motivation though, is that he was doing all of that to try to trap Superman. Yes. But they do actually, he says a few times, no, I really hate Superman the most, like at the very beginning in a way that undermines that faint.

43:18And that's what I was confused about. If they'd stuck with just the basic, he's your average warlord and, or not your average warlord. You know, he does also, by the way, resemble Stephen Miller in this movie. No doubt about it. And like physically. Yeah. And this is a story about people. Yeah. James Gunn has like literal, literalized this in the press like one day before the movie came out. He was like, this is a movie about an immigrant. Yeah. And that's cut. It sounds like director bullshit, but it isn't. It's a rare case where like when a guy is like, this is the parallax view, but with superheroes, it is.

43:51Which, again, we'll get there. Whether that's a good idea or not is an interesting conversation. Or whether they handle it the way that they should. Not what is it about, but how is it about it is the thing I'm asking. Exactly. Anyway, they undermine the faint of like he's just doing this for power and land and money. Yeah. Too early on. I just really, really liked the way that, to me, this was really good gun storytelling. And I don't know if he found this in Morrison or Tom King or one of the other writers, but Lex saying, it is envy that drives me crazy. It is envy that drives me to want to destroy you.

44:27Because the envy that I feel locates the fact that we're all weak and that that weakness is what drives us mad. And I can't live like that. I can't. And that is, that's a very modern thing. That speech and that performance was great. It was just kind of where it was in the storytelling and the other choices they made, giving his motivations or not, that were sort of confusing to me. But no, I agree with you. Everything they're yelling at each other in the sunny ship, and I also really liked the sunny ship, like the tower bridge that takes off. The bridge, yes, yeah, yeah. But no, at some point it's flying.

45:05Was great writing. It worked for me. I agree. That stuff is really good. that's somebody who gets those characters and has something to say, I think, through those characters. Eddie Gathege is like the third lead of this movie. He's in more than Nicholas Holt is. Yeah. As Mr. Terrific, a character that I'm just not all that familiar with. I'm not a huge DC person. Okay. I thought he was pretty good. Yeah, I felt bad for him. He had to like work with a portal for a while. He's in a portal. A lot of paper mache. Yeah. You know, I wonder like how many times they had to like redo that, you know, because the like crinkly stuff.

45:37I actually, But like the, I guess the production design and the actual, like the textures of everything. It all feels very real. Well, until you actually get to the Black Bull stuff. And that's very bad. But I like, I will give them. And that was also even, that was true of Guardians of the Galaxy 3, a movie that I straight up hated. But he is saddled with a lot of silliness. Yes. He does get one badass fight sequence that lasts like one minute where he puts Lois. They're about to get to the portal and he puts Lois in a force field bubble so she won't be injured by all of these mercenaries. And he dispatches them in a kind of a classic James Gunn semi-slo-mo set to a pop song.

46:21Right. Here's, yes, cool design. Mm-hmm. all of the mercenaries have real like Broadway cast member energy to their moves. And like, I even noticed the choreography, like everyone like landing their spot and they're just like, ah, you know, and you can really, and these are choreographed and I consider like them, you know, dance sequences in a lot of way, but we, you could see everyone knew exactly where their marks were and was like really going for the mark. That's the gun thing is like, he's kind of a hokey razzmatazz guy. I kind of like that about him. I mean, he's not Stanley Donnan or anything, but he does like that, let's slow this movie down for a moment.

47:03It's not the slowing down. It's like I would have asked for another take from all of the mercenary actors. You didn't like jazz hands, mercenaries? I would have said, let's land it a little more naturally. Okay. You know, like hit the mark, but also make it look like you've been here before. In general, I think with the exception of the big... Proton River Pocket Universe save, which I really was not fond of at all. I thought most of the other big action set pieces were pretty effective. I think the big showdown near the end between Ultraman and the Engineer and Superman was pretty cool. Which, is that the one in the baseball stadium?

47:42Yeah, that was, and I think that's the Cleveland Stadium as well. Oh, where the Guardians play. Yeah. Okay. No, I thought that was great. Is the Engineer the one with the whirring things who like magically finds whatever? She has, I guess, nanotech. We'll get to it. We'll get to it. I also thought the kaiju sequence was pretty funny. Yeah. The idea of just like letting loose a little monster that would grow overnight and then it becoming. And the fact that it wasn't like that wasn't the big conclusion to the third act of this movie. No, it was just eight minutes in the movie just to show like introduce new characters and to do the thing, which is like the movie is constantly trying to distract Superman from what's really going on in the world, which is itself a kind of load bearing metaphor.

48:21more about how things work right now. And it was funny in the right way. At one point, they're attacking the kaiju's eyeballs, and then they cut to a woman who's both videoing it on her phone and grossed out. And you're like, oh, okay. And I think if that had been the only creature-based, funny James Gunn thing, I would have been really into it and just keeps going. I will say that also has one of five different dog moments in the... I'm getting to crypto. But I just wanted to identify that that's one of them. Is that crypto or is that another one? I think it was crypto. It does look like crypto.

49:08Here's what I wrote about what doesn't work. Okay. There is undoubtedly, and if this is me contradicting what I've just said for the last 45 minutes, please tell me. Do I contradict myself? You know? Yes, I contain multitudes. There is an inherent tension between James Gunn's joke a minute patter, the kind of tension deflating dialogue with Superman's strong silent iconography. That Superman is a representation of an ability to endure. and that the movie wants to upset that expectation, but I think it's still ultimately at its best when it is just sincere. And when it is just Lois and Clark looking at each other, being real, and not making jokes, and not being like, I was doing important stuff, you know, like the goofy lines that Clark or Superman is constantly being fed throughout the movie.

50:09he's not Star-Lord. And... 1 ,000%. I don't know how to rationalize this in a James Gunn movie because I'm like, I don't want James Gunn to not be James Gunn. But whenever Superman said something like that, I was like, that's just stupid. That's just lame. That doesn't feel right. He had a couple comedic moments as Clark that I did think really worked. I think Clark is a little different than... But I guess, even in the interview when he's Clark but he's Superman, he's dressed as Clark but he's being Superman. And Lois is like going back and forth. And she's like, do you think this is going well?

50:43And he's like, I think I'm doing a good job. That was funny. You know, that is funny. So there are moments to locate it. I didn't feel this tension as much with Superman himself just because there weren't that many instances of it as with the movie writ large. And I just, some of it might be that I don't think that James Gunn's sense of humor is ultimately that funny or rather I think the pacing of it is really off. And this movie really extends all of the jokes way past where they need to go. And part of me wondered whether that's a response to the kind of one-off quippy nature of Marvel things.

51:20I mean, these are quippy, but it's like quippy for a full minute. And we're not going to do it once. We're going to do it like four times. Yeah. Yeah, there's a sequence where Lois goes to confront the Justice gang to try to encourage them to help her find Superman. And Nathan Fillion, who I think is pretty funny and is like a part of the troop of James Gunn guys is playing a very silly version of Guy Gardner and everything he says is a gag. Is like, is it kind of self-attack on his own bluster? Yeah. And it's a little tiring. It is also just like, once you have to diagram a joke, then you're in real trouble.

51:56But you could like diagram a lot of these jokes and they're like clauses and circling back and it like just keeps going on and on and on. And it honestly feels like a little condescending. I'm like, yeah, like I get it you know it is his tone you know totally yeah it's not untrue to what he's trying to accomplish it just doesn't always work in this framework there's a difference between the conception of the characters and then the execution of the dialogue and that's the thing that I think I kind of struggle with candidly the most in this movie we did mention the kind of second act action sequence which is you know not ideal I do think the moment when Superman convinces Metamorpho to create a sun to help him break through is very exciting.

52:39I mean, here's a sentence that I never thought I would say out loud. The design of the black site itself in the pocket universe is, I don't want to say cool, but effective. It's effective. And it works. And that moment, and I did turn to you because there's an alien baby who is, I get pissed off when they create these little like cute weird creatures to put in peril to make me feel bad because I do feel bad every time that alien does not all does not look on like my son your younger son yeah my baby so there's it's something in like the size of the head compared to everything James Gunn touched your heart with his alien baby I mean so even that worked uh though like then the baby was just fine you know hey of course that baby was never gonna get never really imperiled that's part of the reason why that sequence i'm just like there's no way james gunn's gonna kill this baby in a superman movie like it's just not that part doesn't really work and the last thing we might get some hate mail for this but i just thought crypto was annoying uh and i didn't really like the dog stuff use too much this is there are like five different moments you only get one dog saves the day moment.

53:55C, Anchorman. The best one is like the last one but by then you had it happen five times. You can't do that so many times. They did have to set it up so there had to be one that was like that. There could have been one that set it up and then the final retrieving the drones thing, the dog toy sequence. I thought that was really clever and worked well but they just gilded the lily with that character. Yeah, just like too many, too much stuff. Is Superman in this movie enough? No. but I wouldn't want this movie to be two and a half hours I know exactly how to get more Superman and less junk which is to get rid of all of your spinoff characters respectfully goodbye yeah you need them though or they come up for the kaiju and then they can show up in the stinger um I you need them because you need characters to save the day on the other side of the planet so you can't not have those characters It's an essential part of the conclusion of the movie.

54:54Do you have less of them? I don't know. Do you spend less time with them? Maybe. Maybe. I do think that it does feel like there are times when Superman just disappears. Now, this happens in a lot of Superman movies where Superman is confronted by kryptonite and he kind of leaves the movie for 10 minutes because he can't move. Right. It's an old strategy. Yeah, it's a Jesus 40 days in the desert type situation. Yeah, it is. And so sometimes you just got to endure it. It actually feels more explicit when you're in a comic book movie that is the right length. Right, yeah. Okay, so here's some of the bigger stuff.

55:36Okay. I don't actually know if I think this is something that doesn't work, but I would like to speak to you about it. Okay. So the movie is legitimately interested, as we've said, in referencing real world events, historically significant disputes, fascism, the destructive power of the internet yes um most of its conclusions about those things i think are ultimately become a kind of bromide in the vein of try to be a good person right if you try if you're a good person if you're decent if you want others if you want to be treated the way others if you want to treat others the way you want them to treat you you know sure like the golden rule of character design.

56:23That would solve some of these problems that we have in the world. Now, I'm not saying that's the only way it's looking at it, but Superman is still ultimately a very limited character. And so he can't get more, he can't get deeper, which would be okay if the movie was not doing all the things I'm about to share with you. Okay. so This movie is an immigrant parable. Like we've clearly identified that. This is about a person coming from another place, joining our country and trying to live his life and even impose his values onto society. There are also significant parallels to Israel and Palestine.

57:10It's undeniable that in even just the visual representation of Bravia, which is a militarized nation that is an ally of the United States, and Jharnapur, which is a nation that is clearly less advanced technologically and is full of brown people. Yes. So you can't help but think of what we watch on the news every day while watching this. It's clearly intentional. There's also very clearly an aspect of Russia and Ukraine and in terms of the sort of rights of a sovereign nation that have been impeded upon. Right. That is a part of this. And the characterization of the Arabian leader and his relationship to Lex Luthor, who is standing in for both Stephen Miller and Elon Musk.

58:01Yes. The fact that he is sort of like funded, backed by a tech billionaire and a U.S. government official. that's the bald guy by the way from Triangle of Sadness who is marooned who plays the Baravian president I was trying to place him but yeah that makes sense now so there's a little bit of Putin in there for sure yeah totally you know there's not really an effort in the movie to explore the nature of the conflict like is it tribal is it religious is it a border concern how far back does it go like it's not giving you anything well there's the this speech not the speech but the the interview between Lois and Superman as Clark Kent, which, you know, is, I think a deaf piece of screenwriting in a lot of ways, but the fact that I can't locate, is he Superman?

58:48Is he Clark? In that moment, like he doesn't really know either. And that's interesting. But Lois is being the quote unquote journalist, but is also espousing like the counter narrative towards, he's just like, I stopped a war. And like, why wouldn't I stop a war? And so she is she is explaining the various like diplomatic and or, you know, geopolitical concerns that you would read about in a paper of record. But that do often seem mired in, you know, national structures as opposed to like basic humanity. So even there, a little bit of the, it is echoing our media discourse as much as it is. In a very smart way, because Lois is forced, maybe just out of concern for being sued, to represent that point of view, even though as a person we know she doesn't believe that.

59:46But then like one scene later, Lex Luthor leverages that concept, the idea of Superman breaking these treaties to do what he feels is right, to then gain power from the U.S. government to do whatever he wants. Just pretty savvy stuff in a conversation. I agree. Like I honestly, I thought that part of it, at least between Lois and Superman and Lex was, you know, was handled well and that it worked in the movie. I definitely thought about real world stuff, but I wasn't like, oh, this doesn't work. I was just like, huh, you did that. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I see, and I see what you're doing. I kept, so, you know, Black Panther is also a movie that is very much about isolationism versus interventionism.

1:00:28Like, that's, to me, that's the thing that elevates that movie out of the mire of your work a day comic book movie is that it really has things on its mind about national identity, what class represents to people living in America versus living overseas, all this other stuff. This movie has some of that on its mind, too. There's not a lot of other movies that get that deep into the ideas of the nation state. I couldn't tell if this movie ultimately lands on Superman's kind of Pollyanna, every human life is valuable point of view. Right. is trying to represent like an unrealistic Obama era fallacy or what James Gunn actually believes, but maybe also recognizes is unsustainable given all of the structures, guardrails, restrictions that define global interaction.

1:01:22I, you know, it's like, it's, he put it on the table. Yeah. I like how he put it on the table. Yeah. I don't think he really, he doesn't solve anything. He doesn't offer a solution, which, you know, I don't have a solution either. Of course, no one does. That's the problem. I'm not holding that against him. I think the movie does ultimately conclude with Superman is right. And Superman is vindicated with the help of his friends who, you know, as you pointed out, they saved the conflict on the other end of the world so that he could. I don't know what he I guess he's saving the universe. He's got to patch the universe together.

1:01:57I personally, I understand that the world splitting is sort of an homage to the original Superman as well. But I could have done without that. And then maybe Superman could have just saved the - That's a pretty heavy metaphor about the division amongst us. Sure. You're on one side, I'm on the other side of the split planet. Right. This is a movie about borders. I mean, it literally is. Yeah, I know. No, but anyway, the people who believe in good and human life save human lives. And what happens to everybody else? Do we know? What do you mean by everybody else? Well, to Lex Luthor, to the... Well, Lex is detained at the end of the film, likely sent to a prison of some kind.

1:02:42Right. He's hauled off by the military. Everyone else is released and they take... People, all of the prisoners from the pocket universe are discovered and released. Everything just kind of, they yada yada. It's like, we fixed it. Yeah. We put it all back together. Right. Which... So basically, like, what we learn is that, like, believing in humanity is good. You see all of the people, like, you see all of the people of Jaranpur cheering. Yep. And then that's it. And then, like, good luck to you, I guess. Yeah. I don't know. It doesn't mean that, like, Baravia no longer exists. This is like, this is in theory, this is a centuries old conflict.

1:03:19And that's kind of my point is like, I think it is, if not brave, at least interesting to try to represent these things in a movie like this, because most people who make movies like this, they got interested in this subject matter because they want to get away from the problems of the world. They're not interested in the problems of the world. They want to escape and they want to create art that is escapist. Right. And I understand that. And I think it has value. I like escapist fantasies as well, if done well, and uncynically. We didn't mention the street bender, sorry. Speaking of real world stuff, and the most horrifying part of the movie.

1:03:58Yeah, I mean, there is a character who is seen as the empathic human stand-in for everyone's relationship to Superman. and the kind of like our desire to, our innate desire to be good and to do good, which is what Superman is all about. And he goes to Superman to help him in a moment of need during a big battle in the first early part of the film. And then that character who is not white and not born in America, presumably, the streetcar vendor, is then ultimately dragged into the conflict with Lex Luthor and amidst a game of Russian roulette is murdered. Yeah. It's the only really truly bracing violence in the movie.

1:04:45And done like in wide shot and is also what incites... Metamorpho. Yeah. So, you know, and I mean, and it is so upsetting that that rather than the peril of his cute alien baby son is what gets him into the mix, which again, I like had some... Metamorpho not developed as character. I really enjoy Anthony Kerrigan he's one of two actors from the TV series Barry that are featured prominently in this film in addition to the guy who's working with Frank Grillo in the government I can't recall the actor's name he's a really good actor he played one of Barry's buddies from the military I you know I think that that's not a hard one to understand I think the point is taken which is like totally black site torture like Abu Ghraib style torture and and murder is horrible and creates like a global precedent that is terribly devastating for our ability to be a country that in theory represents profound values.

1:05:48I think that's a little different than saying like, I'm going to make a movie that looks like Israel and Gaza and tell you that if everybody is a little bit more nice, then we can solve it. It's like, it's kind of right on the edge of representing that. Yeah, no, I mean, it is. I mean, I guess it's smaller and larger scale than the... The movie does not really get its arms around the modern stuff. We should also say that, you know, this script was... We are drawing things to the present moment, and also the present moment has been happening in one way or another for our entire lives. But it's like, the movie isn't like looking at today's newspaper, you know, or even last week just because of when it was made.

1:06:35So, but like, I agree. I also hesitated at the final shots just of like of everyone cheering with no follow-up. And then just to, you know, another white superhero flies off and it's like, yay, we did it. And now I'm going to crack some jokes. I do admire, do I admire? or am I at least impressed that he raises the questions? I frankly appreciate it. I just think it is a Saturday morning cartoon, though. That's why. It's because it is like the good guys win and we will go forward and there will be another episode next Saturday. See you then. Yeah. And like I said, I don't have at least all the answers, so I don't expect the movie to have them either.

1:07:26But it does feel like if you're going to go there, then... I don't know. I guess you're right. It feels a bit reductive at the end. Yeah, not a bit. It's extremely reductive. It's extremely reductive. It's not the movie's responsibility to represent those ideas in a sophisticated way. But once you introduce them, you do have a responsibility to have more nuance. And so I'm kind of not holding it against. It didn't bother me. I expected it to be that way. It's a comic book movie. Yeah. But I've spent a lot of time thinking about this movie since we've seen it. And it is something that ultimately, I think, holds me back from outright proclaiming this as like my perfect vision of a comic book film.

1:08:14There could be a perfect vision of a comic book film that doesn't introduce any real world aspects, you know, like. Totally. Or at least not so overtly that we can just draw conclusions. And you know what? A huge swath of the audience and maybe even a large portion of the audience listening to the show right now is like, I didn't see any of that stuff in this movie, guys. and I accept that people do go to the movies to be distracted or to be taken away from these very challenging things but James Gunn is thinking about it he's thinking hard about it yeah so and he's you know he had to do a lot of structural work to make all these things fit inside of his movie we haven't even gotten to the point that you've made in the talk too about this being about an evil tech lord billionaire you know like we went to an Amazon sponsored screening a week after Jeff Bezos's did we?

1:08:58wedding, yeah, the screening we went to last night was Regal and Amazon present. Oh, I didn't. I missed. I missed. And Lex Luthor's in this movie. Yeah. You know, it's like credit to James Gunn for just leaning directly into it. Now, I will say Zack Snyder did something very similar. His Lex Luthor was very similar, the Jesse Eisenberg one. Right. I mean, like at this point, a tech billionaire without much hair and with a lot of bad ideas and, you know, self-confidence-ish problems is not novel. No, it's probably the easiest villain you could sketch at this point. I did think, I thought the way that Lex Luthor, like his tech was like pointed and interesting.

1:09:42He is like, he is using drones. And it says, you know, and by the way, like when you look at the screen, it says like drone three or something, just so people are really aware that, yes, we want you to understand that these are drones and these are people who are outsourcing and not thinking about the reality or not dealing with the realities of their actions. There was also like a very video game quality to the way that he was operating all of his minions. Well, I want to talk about that too. I think there's an interesting component of that, which is that Lex has studied all of Superman's actions.

1:10:19And then this is a heavy spoiler, But one of the big reveals at the end of the film is that not just that, but he has also cloned Superman as close as he can to create Ultraman, which is essentially a clone that can do battle with Superman. And Lex literally is determining the moves that he is making, the fight patterns that he is creating to beat Superman. One of the things that went to my mind when I was watching this was sort of like the old now settled debate about sabermetrics versus the feel for the game in baseball. you know where it was like you can't math your way through being on the diamond yeah you know and the movie kind of has a little bit of that like just looking at the data doesn't solve problems for you yeah you have to be a person in the world right and superman is a person and his problem solving was superior to the billionaire who wouldn't get close to the fight yeah um i wouldn't say it's like fully thought through that part of it oh and then also it which culminates in a speech of Superman being like, I'm a human and that's what makes me special.

1:11:17And which like is like so cheesy, but in the moment I was like, well, this is kind of working for me. And then he's appealing to Lex's humanity. And then in that like heavily computerized like drone context that they're all in, you're also definitely thinking about AI at some point, even though I don't really think there is any stated artificial intelligence like in the in the fabric of of Lex's like arsenal but it's it's all kind of implied I agree yeah um it's doing a lot this movie there's a lot going on yeah and frankly that's why I'm just like I'm here for it man did I need a pocket universe no I didn't there needed to be a second act struggle there needed to be something in the in the design of a comic book movie or an event movie like this That's fine.

1:12:09Just make it in the real world. I didn't love how they did it. It's really the only thing that I actively didn't like. Yeah. When Superman is floating down a proton river holding a baby, I was like, this isn't the movie I want to be watching. We were in Metropolis. Right. That was cool. I was having so much fun. Why can't that be in the real world? Why can't it be like a horrific actual prison in the United... And, you know, somewhere in the world. We know there are many of them. It's a creative choice. I mean, Gunn's partner, Peter Safran, is the producer of this movie. He's the co-president of the DC brand of the company.

1:12:40Like, I presume they had a lot of autonomy to make this movie. It certainly feels like it. It doesn't feel like a movie that's been noted to death. It doesn't feel like a movie that's been hacked to pieces, which is very different from a lot of the superhero movies we've been seeing recently. It has a kind of consistent tone, and it's taking a couple of chances. It's not reliant on mega star power. It's not trying to trick you into thinking something matters because it's like a famous person. Like, Angelina Jolie is in Eternal, so it matters somehow. Like, it's not like that. so it is kind of a unique product even though it is still a very corporate product I just remember that I had a dream last night that I had a book reading and Angelina Jolie was there and she performed a song anyway you were reading from your book?

1:13:18or I was like debuting it I don't remember what the book was about novel or non-fiction I don't remember I don't know and it was like maybe not written we gotta get you back to bed yeah but then but Angelina Jolie sort of saved the book party anyway thank you to her can we talk about the ending? yes The two endings? Sure. So the first, which should have been the ending, which is Lois and Superman making out and then flying. Great moment. Wonderful. And I was like, oh, you did it. You nailed it. And then we had to go, we had to tack another thing on. We went back to the Fortress of Solitude where the robots who managed that space had been repaired.

1:13:57They were destroyed by the engineer in the film. And... Oh, yeah, the engineer, I didn't get it. Thanks. that's my take. I kind of liked it. But I also didn't think the CGI quite got there. I thought that was the AI component of the movie. Oh, yes. That's a person who is becoming subhuman and is effectively being controlled. Oh, one more thing. I also just like they kept being like no, the tape is real. We know it's real. The army doesn't get it wrong. And I was like, come on. The tape from his parents. Yeah. We live in like deep fake, you know, America. I thought they were going to pivot back to that and they never did.

1:14:30They never did. They were just like, we know. The thing I liked about that part of it was that in my understanding and in Marlon Brando's representation of this character and many other, you know, Jor-El, Superman's father, is just kind of like a patrician blowhard. Right. You know, and he's just like, Kryptonians, we're the best. And so the idea that he would be communicating to his son, like, you should dominate these weak soy boys in America. Sure. That's kind of funny. Also, the Bradley Cooper stunt casting is fantastic and very funny. Yes, and immediately, as soon as I saw that, I was like, this is going to be good.

1:15:02But whatever my concerns were, they've been alleviated. The second ending, Supergirl shows up. Yeah. Played by Millie Alcock, who was one of the stars of the first season of House of the Dragon. Right. And the Supergirl movie, I think is the third movie, maybe the second movie in the DCU. I can't recall if Clayface is coming before it. No. Supergirl is dated for June 26th. So a year from now, we're getting a Supergirl movie, regardless of the success of this movie. directed by Craig Gillespie, director of I, Tonya, Pam and Tommy, Cruella, Lars and the Real Girl. Let me see how many Craig Gillespie movies I can remember off the top of my head.

1:15:42I would say a talented but annoying director of movies. Has an incredible visual style, but I'm often extremely enervated watching his movies. Sure. I mean, it's me, but for James Gunn. He might be my James Gunn. and we like we figured it out you know I just every time I watch a Craig Gillespie movie I'm like I know you've seen Goodfellas like I get it like you know the editing style the needle drops like I get it this is like he directed Dumb Money the movie we saw recently a couple years ago the movie about the GameStop stock story this this is how I feel about the Supergirl thing which in addition to you know being set up and whatever Millie O 'Cock seemed funny she and David Cornswit that had comedic timing or whatever.

1:16:31Cousin energy. But then we have to sit, and it's like he wants to watch the tape of his family, and then it's home videos from his Kansas parents. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're James Gunn. You believe in family, like found family. We get it, we get it, we get it. So I was annoyed by that. Yeah, you know, one of the first things I Googled when I got home, and I knew the answer to this, but I just wanted to be sure, was does James Gunn have kids? And he doesn't have kids. He doesn't. And I don't, I have no comment about him not having kids. But the fact that he consistently returns to stories about found families, I find interesting, fascinating.

1:17:05And especially because he also, you know, his wife is one of the stars of the Peacemaker TV series. Peacemaker makes a very funny cameo in this movie. And that's the John Cena character who shows up talking shit. That's a really good show. So his wife appears in his work. His brother, Sean Gunn, appeared in all the Guardians movies, appears in most of his movies. And he also very briefly appears as Maxwell Lord in this movie, who is the character that Pedro Pascal played in Wonder Woman 2. Maxwell Lord, I don't know if you clocked this. It's done very quickly. But he is the billionaire who funds the Justice Gang.

1:17:42So Hawkgirl and Mr. Terrific and Green Lantern are all kind of working for Lord Corps. So James Gunn does kind of work with his family. Yeah. I want to be very clear that I think found families in real life are great. And I just thought this was like sentimental gilding the lily at the very end. I understood that Superman, he has a lovely scene with his dad and then his mom, like back in Kansas. And I was like, I get it. You know, you have found these people and they taught you how to be a man. I didn't need the ice fortress, like the... what's Don Draper's The The Fortress of Solitude. No, Don Draper at the end of Mad Men, he gives the pitch and it's about the slideshow thing and then he's like nostalgia is the Greek word for whatever.

1:18:41It's called The Carousel. There we go. Yeah, I didn't need it. I got it. I got you. I liked seeing Prua Taylor-Vince and Neva Howell who I'd never seen before who played Ma Kent. And Pro Taylor Vince from the James Mangold movie Heavy and a lot of stuff over the years. Great character actor. And the choice even to make Ma and Pa not beautiful. Yeah. You know, like Kevin Costner and Diane Lane were Ma and Pa in Hand of Steel. And they look like they could have given birth to Henry Cavill. Yeah. This is a normal family. Yes. Normal farmers in Kansas. and I think elevates kind of like alien aspect of the story.

1:19:24So I like that too. What else? Anything else? So much easier to do this when you've just seen the movie. The stinger. So we sat there like assholes. I know and I really thought he wasn't going to do it. I really hoped he wasn't going to do it. I thought that would have been an interesting way to fully sever from the MCU era to say, you know what? We don't do stingers. We don't treat our audiences like clapping seals waiting to be fed another fish treat. We trust that you sat down to watch the movie and then when it's over, it's over. But they did do a stinger. Yeah. Which was mild. It was just for comedy?

1:20:00Was it setting up something that I didn't understand? Not that I know of, but it's possible. I would say Superman lore is not my speciality. Okay. What is your speciality? X-Men. Okay. That's it? So we haven't, you mean we've been doing this for like 20 years now and I haven't really lived through your well your lore special like yeah I think that's right area of interest yeah I mean we have been getting those movies but they just haven't been very I mean yeah I feel like Dark Phoenix sure yeah Dark Phoenix came out when the show was around Chris and I had a very angry pod about that movie right um so when are the Days of Future Past might have been might have come out when are the X-Men coming and I would imagine 2028 2029 okay so I'll be dead by then so not a big deal I was gonna say um I am very curious to see how this movie performs.

1:20:48Okay. The reviews have been pretty good. Mm-hmm. Pretty positive. I think Gunn, aside from the strong anti-Snyder contingent, which obviously that's another aspect of this experience that the film is kind of gently mirroring is the division between Not My Superman and I'm very excited about the future. I have been following some box office analysts who have been suggesting that this is one of those kinds of movies where good reviews help. Okay. That good reviews push up, walk up business. Yeah, because then all you need is, I heard Superman's pretty good. Yes, exactly. That's it. That word of mouth.

1:21:26And again, it's named Superman. Yep. And then it's pretty good. So people are like, okay, I'll go see Superman. You're not here mad today, which I think is a big accomplishment for the movie Superman. Totally. I was even interested in half of it. Yeah. Whether or not you ever are interested in another DCU movie is interesting. Well, we have the list here. We do. So we've got Supergirl. We've got Clayface, which is coming out on September 11th. What's that about? The 25th anniversary. Geez. Clayface is actually an interesting character that might be appealing to you. It's a movie about a, or it's a story about, it's a Batman villain who was a Hollywood actor.

1:22:07Oh, okay. who uses, gosh, I don't want to get this wrong, like a special clay to transform into other people. So it's one part like Lon Chaney, Man of a Thousand Faces. One part like trying to keep your age and your beauty with these kinds of influencer style products. And it's written by Mike Flanagan, who is best known for his horror work. And I think they're trying to make a standalone horror movie James Watkins directed, Speak No Evil. last year. Oh, interesting. Who's playing Clayface? It's an actor that I have never heard of before, but has done some television work. I was just talking with some friends about this.

1:22:47Let me see if I can get his name right. I found this to be a really weird choice for the third movie. This is not... So this isn't going to be on the box office level of Superman? It's clearly a much smaller. It probably is like a $50 million movie, but in a way, I'm like, that's cool. That's cool. That's cool that they're doing this. So Tom Reese Harrys is the actor's name. Handsome fellow. Okay. He most recently appeared in The Return starring Ralph Fiennes and Juliette Binoche. He was on Doctor Who. Okay. Cool. So let's talk about the Luca Guadagnino Sergeant Rock thing. So I've read the headlines and I've never clicked through because I kind of don't want to acknowledge.

1:23:32Daniel Craig exited. Daniel Neil Craig exited. It's unclear if this movie is happening now. Listen, I love Luca. Love Kritsky's. I like it when they work together. You know. So who is Sergeant Rock? Well, he's a military figure. He's developed in, I want to say, the late 50s. Okay. And a lot of it was, you know, so many of these characters are responses to one another. so this is not quite the DC's version of Captain America but has some some strains of that it's like kind of a combination of Captain America and Nick Fury put into one guy um it doesn't seem like this movie's gonna happen okay so I don't I don't wanna spend too much time on it James Mangold is writing and directing a Swamp Thing movie I think that's happening okay what's up with Swamp Thing is a scientist who due to an explosion in a chemical lab transforms at a lab that is located near the swamp, becomes a kind of half-plant, half-man figure.

1:24:38There was a Wes Craven version of the movie in like 1982, starring Adrian Barbeau. It was very memorable to me as a child. Not a very good movie, but it's a movie. The Brave and the Bold would be a Batman movie. What's weird about that... Is that there are already Batman movies, and I heard that Matt Reeves handed in his Batman 2 script, and it's very good. People were really, really deadline shaming Matt Reeves. How did you feel about that as an editor? I think that I felt bad for Matt Reeves even though you do got to hit your deadlines. But, you know, and apparently it was a long time in development, but it seems hard to write a script.

1:25:20It just seems like the other people needed to not be involved. Forgive the comic book dork aspect of this question, but Gunn in the Rolling Stone interview was like, this isn't going to happen, but I'm also not saying it's not going to happen. I'm not, Robert Pattinson's Batman is not going into David Korn's Superman world, but maybe it is. Like he kind of played that game a little bit in the interview where he was like, I'll never say never. Now the tone, obviously, of the Matt Reeves Batman movie and of James Gunn's Superman are wildly different. The color palette, the energy, the music, the framework of the world doesn't, they don't make sense together.

1:25:59And yet, I would like to see it. I would too. Team Robert Pattinson. And I would like to see Robert Pattinson and David Cornswet in a movie together. I'll bet you would. Yeah. Yeah. In the suits and not the suits. Also, shouldn't the tone of Superman and Batman independently be very different? Isn't that honoring their characters? This is how you do it. And this is then you have to find someone who sees the whole board? This is how you do it. But I think they should do that. Now, you know, these are, a lot of these films feel... Why do you know that The Brave and the Bold would be a Batman movie?

1:26:35That's the title of a Batman run. What happens in it? I can't remember. Okay. Andy Machete is attached to that movie. He directed The Flash. I don't think that's going to happen. Yeah, okay. There's a Teen Titans movie. There's a Bane and Deathstroke movie. There's a Wonder Woman. There will be a Wonder Woman movie for sure. I don't know. I'm not sure about the DCU. I'm glad we got this movie in the form that we did. I think this movie's gonna make 150 million dollars at the box office this weekend yeah okay so that would be a lot and here's why here's the Superman box office history Batman vs.

1:27:11Superman Dawn of Justice which is your favorite Superman film made 330 million dollars they wear a lot of vests they do they do Ben Affleck is in it that came out in 2016 that 330 million dollars is the most domestically for any Superman movie okay behind it Man of Steel 290. Yeah. Then Superman Returns, starring Brandon Routh and Kevin Spacey, made$200. Don't remember that. The Donner film made$134. Superman 2 made$108. Superman 359. And Superman 4, which is an out-and-out fiasco, made$15. Okay. You predicted$410 million domestic in our summer movie preview. I predicted$257. Now, I obviously undershot.

1:27:50Uh-huh. I don't know how much I undershot. I'm super curious to see where this goes. I mean, the thing is, is that we still don't have last year Wolverine and Deadpool Deadpool did 600 something domestic yep so we don't have that yet so meaning we haven't had a movie like that yes yeah if this movie goes over a billion it will be the first it will be the first Superman movie to go over a billion I think it will it will be the first superhero movie not named Deadpool Wolverine since Spider-Man No Way Home to go over a billion it might be That's very rare now. It used to be very common. Right. Remember when Captain Marvel just made a billion dollars even though it was trash?

1:28:30I don't. It did. It did? Yeah. Aquaman made a billion dollars. Well, that I remember. But, you know, that's just a... That movie's fun. That's at Christmas and you guys just like, you go and you're underwater. Not Chris, though. That's what happened. Yeah. Chris didn't go. He'll never go underwater. He'll never know the way of water, as we know, unfortunately for him. Someone suggested that we do a watch-along Avatar The Way of Water. Oh, okay. Would you do it? Yeah, sure. Piacon, remember the whale? Yeah, that was very beautiful. And then when we couldn't explain what was going on with Sigourney Weaver, but it's cool stuff that's going on.

1:29:04I love it. I think it's interesting. Yeah, I know. It's great. I mean, we got to figure out the watch-along logistics in a way where I can be comfortable. Okay. We'll get you a couch. We'll get you a fainting couch. And we need snacks and stuff. I took Superman in the auction this week. Yeah. Which I now feel pretty good about. I asked you yesterday, two days ago, Oscars, Superman. What about now? I mean, what is James Gunn's history? I don't think he has a single Oscar nomination. This, like, I have to be honest. We talked about mostly what is good about this. And even the stuff where we're like, we're not really sure if he landed the plane on the real world geopolitical stuff.

1:29:49but even the things that don't work we talked about them in mostly positive ways there is a lot of space junk in this movie there is just straight up at least 45 minutes of garbage looking space junk and I don't know if you get that past people you know he was nominated for best adapted screenplay by the Writers Guild of America in 2015 for Guardians you remember when Guardians came out it was like holy shit this is actually good and I think there is affection for him That's cool, but the, you know, the Writers Guild and the Oscars don't always line up. They definitely don't. Yeah. They definitely don't.

1:30:25I don't think this is being nominated for Best Picture or anything like that, but I'm kind of curious even for below the line stuff. Maybe. Some of it looks good and some of it like really doesn't. And so, you know, like if you want visual effects or whatever, you still have to sit through the black hole. You're right. You're right about that. It's tough. any concluding thoughts uh I you know it seems good it was good I'm not mad I'm not mad yeah I could tell you we're not mad last night even though we did the thing where we don't speak after we've seen a movie we're like we'll see you tomorrow see you in the pod room which is a bummer because we saw it in the SGV and then we could have just like gone to dinner we could have and that would have been delicious that would have been really late to be eating spicy spicy food yeah no it's true we are too old for that Yeah.

1:31:16If I eat spicy food after 10 p.m., I will die. Yeah. I will. Well, you can't eat spicy food. In general, I can't. That's like anyone looking at you will not be surprised to learn that. I can't. But yeah, I really have to. I do really like it. Yeah, but you turn away at this point. Yeah. I can go in. I know. You have more of a tolerance for it. Yeah. What do you think? Because I'm a white man? Is that the issue? It's true. Someone once put that we look like we don't like any spices on our food, which I think is pretty rude. That we both do? Yeah. I mean, I do love spices on my food. I just, my stomach can't handle that.

1:31:48Yeah, my stomach can. Okay, well, shout out to you. Thank you. Superman, I don't know. Probably not a lot of spices. Well, as we know, there's an attempt to disrupt his organs near the end of the film with the nanobites. Sure. You know, they try to infest his soul. I hated that. Yeah, it was all right. And I like didn't really understand how he solved it, but whatever. He just like smashed it off. I think the idea was that he was stronger than their science. okay well I can't really endorse that take but you know maybe Superman makes America healthy again I was gonna say there could be some raw milk in the picture and I just I don't endorse that but believe science and doctors okay so next next week you're not on Monday yeah that's right Monday because you didn't trust me to be nice about this or because you just want to do lore I think that's fine I don't think that you want to have to watch seven Superman movies.

1:32:46That was my thinking. Yeah, totally not. So next Monday, me and Van Lathan and Rob Mahoney will talk about this Superman movie, talk about the box office, talk about the reception of the film in general, and we'll rank every Superman movie. Now, for those listening at home, that includes Superman, Richard Donner, Superman 2, as directed by Richard Lester, Superman 2, The Donner Cut, a recut version with Richard Donner's intended outcome, Superman 3, Superman 4, Superman Returns, Superman Man of Steel, Superman vs. Batman Dawn of Justice, Batman vs. Superman Dawn of Justice. Who got first billing there?

1:33:24I think Batman did. Batman did. Ben Affleck did. And then Justice League. Yeah. And Justice League the Snyder Cut. Whew. Or Zack Snyder's Justice League is how I believe it's titled. Now, I don't know how many of those I'm going to revisit. Some of them. I've already watched Superman 1 and 2. So, when was... What's up? Terry, Lois and Clark, the TV series, was Terry Hatcher and then that guy. So that's not in the... That's not part of this, nor is Smallville. Oh, yeah. There has also been very recently another Lois and Clark series. Okay. That people were quite fond of. Okay. But it was recently canceled, I think, by Max.

1:34:06Wasn't me. Shift back to HBO Max. How do you feel about that? Fine. I never deleted the original app. So do I have to download a new app? Yeah, you have to download the LutherCore app. You have to get all his tech on your phone. And you have to accept all the cookies. Okay. That's something that they told us. All right. And you have to use Face ID. No, I won't. We have to use Face. People are using biometrics at Spotify now. What do you mean? Apparently you can log in with biometrics. Sure, that makes sense. Not my biometrics. You don't use a fingerprint on your laptop? No. Okay. That is a company-owned device.

1:34:43Absolutely not. Interesting. They have to pay me a lot more for my biometrics. But what about when you were arrested on January 6th and you were fingerprinted? It's not there. Okay. You weren't there. No, but I did. But you were rooting along at home. When I worked at Condé Nast, it was at the World Trade Center, so they had to fingerprint all of us. So, your info's out there. I'm in, but I don't. You need to be like John Doe from Seven and start cutting off your fingerprints. yeah I'm not doing that don't you feel like the pod just started okay thanks to our producer Jack Sanders for his work on this episode we will see you next week with Rob and Ben