The 2025 Movie Star Rankings: 35 Over 35. Plus: Nicolas Cage!

25:32They had a Gen Z subset study as well. Right. And that's still found. I think it changed the order of the top 10s slightly and maybe Scarlett Johansson was a little higher and maybe The Rock was number one. In the Gen Z list. In the Gen Z list. Yeah. I think that's relevant to this discussion. Yes, but the general composition of older movie stars, people you associate with a type of art that is for your grandparents, starring your grandparents, seems to be their vibe. I think it's rude. What about your cool uncles and aunts? You know, that's what we are. Yeah. We're your extremely cool uncles and aunts.

26:10Right? You don't think so? Yeah. Moderately cool? Sure. Emotionally distraught? Physically laboring? Trying our best. Okay. Yeah. As I mentioned, three lead roles in at least five years is a key. No voice work. Voice work does not count in that rule. Now, we have made two exceptions to this rule. Because I think these are two important entrants. But you must be born before May 5th, 1990. We are making two exceptions for that, and we'll explain why. So, it turns out you must be born before, I think, August 15th, 1990? More or less, yes. A lot of Leos on this list, by the way. Is that a fact? Yeah, but I just, as I was Googling, I just clocked another.

26:56Like, we see you. This, of course, is a Leo podcast. See another. Jack, are you a Leo, Jack? Sure. Okay. What's your sign? Do you know what your sign is? Oh, I completely misunderstood the question. I'm a Scorpio. Oh. Interesting. I thought you were asking general thoughts on Leos, to which I say, sure. Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay. Great, okay. I think Chris - What's up with Leos? No, there is nothing wrong. That's what I'm saying. I'm indifferent. Not on the matter. I think Chris is also a Scorpio. Yes, he is. Intriguing. Yeah. They have the stinger. Yes. Wait. Okay, for a second I thought Cy was a Scorpio and I was really confused.

27:31Because, you know, it's so rare that Chris will, like, kind of buck back. But he will. He will. No. Every once in a while. Never in your life. I mean, maybe, maybe it's, I'm sure it's coming for me, you know, but no. Be safe. I'm trying to think. no even when Zach got us in that fight in the outside of what's that cancelled restaurant called? Horses? That one but no the other one in Silver Lake you don't remember this when you were in the bathroom the whole time and then that was almost a real fight yeah I know but then I was like sorry Chris I got too hot under the collar and I think he would have been odd like it would have been legit for him to be like, you need to fucking chill out.

28:17And he didn't. He was just supportive. What restaurant was that? I forget. I don't know. I can't remember. It's probably It was right in Silver Lake Junction. What's the name of it? There's some legal issues at play. I see. Oh, because your husband almost had a violent encounter with a strange man. Yeah, but it was the strange man's fault. And then a little bit my fault. It was my fault for taking a pee break, I guess. Even then, Chris had my back. So there. That's beautiful. Can you tell us how we devise our list? What are the mathematical specifications we apply? So it's 50 % what you've done, 25 % what is to come, and 25 % razzmatazz.

28:59Well, it's like what could be. That's how I like to think about it. Do you got it? Do you not got it? Yeah, that's the squishy 25 % is how we get away with doing whatever we want on this list, ultimately. Just a reminder to anyone listening at home, because the first time we did this, bless their heart, whoever it was on social media, identified this as our 35 over 35 actors list. That's not what this is. This is not the best actors. In fact, that might be fun to do one day, to say, like, here's the people who we think are the absolute best actors, even though we are not learned in the ways of acting, really, from a technical perspective.

29:34This is movie stars. This is about stardom. Acting is a part of stardom. It's a critical part of stardom in some ways, but not for everyone. so that's why the last 25 % is razzmatazz okay also we will read a list of toughest cuts which is like 40 names quite long and most of them the category would be like incredible actor yes not quite movie star like maybe too good of an actor to be on this list I know what you mean by that yeah there is an icon list sure that we made some years ago an emeritus yeah we've actually lost some members that were on this list like Donald Sutherland, for example, was on this list.

30:12Oh, yeah. He passed away. James Caan was on the list. He passed away. You know, all the mega icons are still here. De Niro and Pacino, Clint Eastwood, Jane Fonda, Diane Keaton, Harrison Ford, Judi Dench. You know, he'll go on and on. Like, we recognize their great works. Meryl Streep. Is Meryl Streep on this list? She is on that. She's emeritus. Yeah. She's emeritus. Okay. You know, there are maybe one or two people who are 70 plus on our list total. Maybe one. There may be one person who's 70 years old on our final 35 over 35. But for the most part, this is sort of the Hall of Fame that is concretized.

30:48These people are not leaving that space. So if you, you know, text Amanda and say, where the fuck is Martin Sheen? He's in the Hall of Fame. Everybody just settle down. We know. Ineligible. A couple of names to cite so that people don't say, why the hell is this person not discussed? I don't know if this guy would have made it, but he is definitely in that. is he too good of an actor to be on the list but Daniel Kaluuya has not had a leading role since Nope. And before that I think it's been a long time. So I don't know what's up with him. I hope he's in the next Jordan Peele movie. I'm not sure.

31:24I hope so too. Obviously an actor we love. Yeah. Do we count Judas and the Black Messiah as leading or That might have been the one before Nope. Yeah. And I think that those are his last two and before that it's five years. Sandra Bullock hasn't made a movie since Bullet Train. Right, and that was a cameo, so really Lost City. Lost City was her last leading role, which did like$200 million and proved her stardom, but she's just not taking parts. Will Ferrell? This is about to change, I think. I think as soon as like three months from now, he will officially gotten to the three and five, but he's not quite there based on a movie that I think he's about to start shooting.

31:58We mentioned Blake Lively. Seth Rogen is interesting to me because he's on the studio right now. Right. And when you look at his movie career, even the movies he's made in recent years, like The Fablemans, he's not the lead. Right. He's a critical character in that movie. But I think in American Pickle is the last movie that he made where he was the star. Michelle Williams, who has kind of moved to television. I haven't watched Dying for Sex. Have you watched that? I haven't. Okay. Will you watch it? I don't know. I have a long list of TV, but I support her. And she looks great in all the press.

32:31I like her as well. Janelle Monae, after Knives Out 2, I thought, well, here comes a movie star now, and then she's done making movies. That's okay. She can do what she wants. Jim Carrey? Hmm. He's technically made three consecutive Sonic the Hedgehog movies, and that's it. Right. Okay. That's his 2020s. Well, his bank account's doing great. John Krasinski. Because voice work doesn't count. Correct. He obviously wrote and directed If, and had a supporting part in that movie as a deeply creepy father, but he is not. So what is the friend is the dad in the end? The friend was the dad's friend? I think that's it.

33:07You just spoiled it for the millions at home listening. Ben Stiller. Well, yeah, he's making severance and going on chicken shop date. Yeah, we were recording this on the eve of the Knicks-Celtics playoff matchup in the second round of the NBA playoffs. And Ben Stiller is one of the best we have out there supporting Knicks Nation. So thank you to him. 22 members of our first ever list of 35 under 35 have moved to this tier but only six of them made this list yeah big fish little pond little fish big pond you know agree well put thank you toughest cuts how do we do this because there's so many names well i don't mind spoiling okay because it's part of it is just about the ranking also people as soon as this is over one guy is just going to like bang out the list and then just tweet it and then we're fucked anyway i know come on i know guys i've spent fucking 12 hours working on this for no good reason the podcast is how we feed our children it's okay it's okay this is it's all content all content is good yeah right yes um sure i'm sure there are a lot of contradictions to that but okay there's okay so let's just set aside two let's just talk about the two names that we have issue with for me we cut Christian Bale I don't feel great about that and for you we cut Chris Hemsworth and you don't feel great about that.

34:28Yeah. To me those are both big time movie stars. You could certainly argue that they're quote unquote more famous than other people who will appear on our list. Bale is in kind of a downswing. He was in I thought he was really good in the third Thor movie but that movie was not very good. He was in the Edgar Allan Poe movie on Netflix The Pale Blue Eye and he was in Amsterdam. Which was a disaster. Which was tough. And those were all 2022. Yes. He is going to be Al Davis in the John Madden movie that is coming out with Nicolas Cage directed by David O. Russell. Well, I mean, that could go really well or that could be Amsterdam.

35:07I fully agree with you. Christian Bale and Chris Hemsworth are interesting as comparison points because they both vaulted to mega fame on the backs of comic book characters and have since been putting some distance between their comic book work. But Hemsworth, make your case. Extraction and Instraction 2 are like decent movies that - And they're huge. Half the world has seen, almost. And we are light on Netflix representation, which I feel fine with. I do too. Because for the most part, we prefer movies made for theaters. But those are a huge deal. And the rest of his career, I mean, he just, he is really, really famous.

35:54And he is in movies that a lot of people see. And that has been the case for like almost 20 years now. He has just never proven, I don't think one single time, the ability to draw audience outside of a franchise. I see it. You know? Yeah. Like, at least at the movie theater. And he is part... Like, Furiosa being a recent example. Yeah, but he was... Which is a movie that didn't perform well. He's great in that movie. But that movie didn't perform. Right. And that is... That was IP. But, like, Furiosa not performing and Christian Bale in Amsterdam are, like, orders of different magnitude. You know, I really...

36:34I know, but, yeah. No, to me, they both give good performances, though. I don't think that's really the issue. Yeah, but like Amsterdam was a disaster. Amsterdam was a nightmare movie. Yeah, I agree. And didn't make any money. I agree. So, an interesting test is coming for Hemsworth, and maybe we can reset when we do it next time. Okay. Because we saw a preview for Crime 101, which is a movie that looks like it was made in 1998. It's just like a pure crime movie that I think is, is it Amazon MGM that is making it? I think so. And it's Halle Berry, Chris Hemsworth, Barry Keoghan, and Mark Ruffalo.

37:03and it just like looks like a Michael Mann knockoff about a thief. It looked pretty good. It looked okay. Kind of garbage-y Michael Mann. Or it looked like they were remaking Crash. Bad Crash. Oh God, I hope that's the vibe of that movie. But you have to go all the way back to bad times at the El Royale in 2018 to find a movie that he made that's an original movie in movie theaters. And that's a long time ago. Like he did make Spider-Head and he did make two extraction movies, but they were straight to Netflix. So my case against him is like he made Ghostbusters, he made a bunch of Thor movies, The Avengers, Men in Black 4, which people didn't like.

37:39It's kind of, I like him as a dude. I hear you. And I guess he is the number one figurehead for major Marvel star that can't translate outside of Marvel, except we have another Marvel star who can't translate outside of Marvel, who is not on this list. So. We'll get to them in a second. Okay. Should we just run through some of the names? Yeah. You want to bounce back and forth? Okay. I'll read one. You read one? Okay. Cynthia Erivo, not on the list. Michael Fassbender. Ana de Armas. Tough one. Yeah, but Valerina's not out yet, and she was only in one scene of No Time to Die. Yep. Jesse Plemons, two-getting actor.

38:19Jesse Buckley. We'll see after The Bride. Now eligible. Right. Vanessa Kirby. Hasn't been the primary yet. Right. We'll see if she ever does get there. Daniel Craig. This is the other one where Knives Out still exists. They're still making them. Yeah, for Netflix. Well, like I said, that's where your bias is. My demerit on Craig, who was on the list last time around, is that he didn't get nominated for queer. I agree. Which, set aside how you feel about his performance, that almost indicated something about his stature. Okay, who's next? Kristen Stewart. Natalie Portman. Paul Rudd. Jessica Chastain.

38:56This one hurts. I thought about it. Ben Affleck. There's a case for him. There's a case, but it's like, he's doing his own thing. When is Ben going to come on the show? Just you and Ben. One hour. I mean, I just wouldn't get a word in, you know? And I would be okay with that. That's the only time. What would be your first question? Why are you the way that you are? Jennifer Lopez. Jason Statham, which is another tricky one. Tough one. Yeah. He's very reliable and he only makes movies for theaters. Right. And they're successful within the budget range that they need to be, I guess. Yes. But I don't know.

39:38There wasn't room. I liked the swing of Monkey Man, but Dev Patel is not there yet. Yeah. This is another controversial one. Hugh Jackman. I thought long and hard about it. I did as well. He has two movies coming out in the next 12 months, one of which is Song Song Blue, which is a focus movie at the end of the year that could be a sneaky awards race contender. And then he's got the three bags full. That was delayed. I don't know if you saw it recently. It was delayed until the end of next year. Yeah. Okay. Well, you know, he's also been mired in a lot of IP. I don't mean to, I guess, fast forward if you don't want three bags full spoiled for you in some way.

40:15How do you even know what it's about? I don't know. I read a tweet that said. What are you doing? That's what he's not going on for two years. I said fast forward. It's based on a book. I don't want to know that. That's the premise of the movie. Jack, you got to cut that. We can't keep that in.

40:33That's Amanda's spoiler core. I said fast forward. That is the premise. Okay. It's not my fault. We'll put that as a blooper at the end of the episode. Or just like bleep it out. Just bleep out what happened. But like, I don't know. Let's keep going. We haven't even said a single name from the list yet. Keep going. It's very clear. You need to keep up. Okay, I'm keeping up. Okay. It's your turn. Steven Yeun. And we had to cut him, which is sad. Adam Driver. Vin Diesel. Good. That's what I say to that. Okay. Good. Sebastian Stan. I'm sorry. Close. Close one. Has not proven to be a pure box office draw yet.

41:08Yeah. Jake Gyllenhaal has kind of fallen back into television and roadhouse streaming movies. And Othello on Broadway. That's right. Shut out at the Tonys. Apparently, the reviews are not good. I'm surprised to hear that. I spoke to people who did not think it was very good. I did not get to see it. Kirsten Dunst. This one hurts, but... Do you agree with this? I agree. Yeah, I do. Brie Larson. I agree with that also. Edward Norton. Kate Winslet. TV. Ralph Fiennes. Carrie Mulligan. Miles Teller. Tough in my house. Tom Hardy. We have... Oh, yeah. Michelle Williams again, for some reason. Yeah, we can take her.

41:45But it's not the other. It's... Yeah, okay. Gal Gadot. John David Washington. Danielle Dudweiler. Elizabeth Olsen. And Zoe Kravitz, who's dating Noah Centineo. Did you know that? I just love to bring, yeah, I don't know. They're like holding hands. Isn't he like 19? No, I think he's grown up a little bit. I saw him in the film Warfare. Yeah, okay. He's very big now. Well, and he is like in a park holding hands with Zoe Kravitz. Well, good for her. Okay. Um Let's The final trio That are missing From this list We're calling The materialist test Mm-hmm So Dakota Johnson Chris Evans And Pedro Pascal Are not on this list Yeah They're They're the stars Of materialist Which is out in one month I'm not saying That movie needs to be a hit To put them onto the list Dakota Johnson is coming off A tough stretch here You know Madame Web Yeah We're down bad queen in my heart forever I know you love her she's fine can hardly act but she's interesting on screen she's come on this isn't about actors it is not about actors she has razzmatazz all her own Chris Evans is gifted but lost yeah Pedro Pascal we had a little back and forth we talked a lot about this so I think because of the 50 % what you've done yes that's ultimately your case for why he's not But yet deserving.

43:15There is precedent here. When we make the list, we do it according to the date of recording. So there have been people who three weeks later had, you know, Dune 2 or whatever come out. And there's a big change. Now, when you look at his career, especially over the last 10 years, I first saw him as Oberyn Martell in Game of Thrones. And then he's on Narcos for 30 episodes. And then he's the Mandalorian. Is he? And then he's The Last of Us. Right. So those are huge television shows. And that's where he really got famous. These are the movies that are coming up from him. This summer, Eddington, the new Ari Aster movie, which I've been hearing more and more about and very excited about.

44:02Okay. And I feel like it's going to annoy everybody. Materialist, which I mentioned. Yeah. And then he's in Fantastic Four. And then he's in Avengers Doomsday. And then he's in The Mandalorian and Grogu next summer. those are three of the most anticipated big budget movies plus two very intriguing A24 films from directors we really love right as far as like the playbook goes that's the playbook that's like the I'm I'm grabbing the mantle playbook but it's like three playbooks at once and so my case for you in addition to the it's just at this moment in time he was okay in Gladiator 2 he was in Wonder Woman 1984.

44:46That's a fact. I actually enjoyed what he was doing. He was fine. And I'm learning now that he was also in 2011's The Adjustment Bureau. But, you know. Was he one of the hat wearers? I hope so. That's what they do. No, he was a maitre d' DePaul DeSanto. The maitre d' doesn't wear a hat. Okay. I don't know, actually. I'm clear. I don't know whether the maitre d' is time traveling or whatever the hell happens. He was also in The Great Wall opposite Matt Damon. Okay. A Chinese production. where they learned all of our secrets about how to make a movie. So it's not there yet. And then the Fantastic Four, Into Avengers, plus Mandalorian and Grogu, all in 18 months, plus the Apple commercial, you know, it's just like, it's a lot.

45:30We're risking overexposure. Just so I'm clear, you hate his guts. That's why he's not making the list. He's very charming. You're right. As soon as July 15th, we might be like, Pascal, he's on the list. Shall we do the list? I'd love to. Now, should we bounce back and forth? You do one, I do one? Okay. What do you think? That sounds wonderful. Figure it out with me in real time. I said, okay, why does this happen? Okay, this is a similar thing. I'm sorry that we're just relitigating my domestic issues at work, but Zach does the same thing. He's like, should we do it this way? And I say, sure. And then he's like, okay, but why don't you want to do it that way?

46:11And should we do it another way? You got the yes. I said, yes, let's go alternately, you know, just take it and run. I'll tell you what, next time, send me an email and then we'll hash it out that way. Okay. What's number 35? My beloved Julia Roberts, who honestly is just clinging to 35 because she has the Luca Guadagnino movie coming out this fall. And also, obviously, she's one of the greatest movie stars of all time. But she hasn't been doing that much. So she was in Sam S. Mills' Leave the World Behind, which is notable for a couple of reasons. But most specifically, it is one of the five most watched movies in the history of Netflix.

46:49And obviously, Julia Roberts is a big reason for that. So she still has clout. Yeah. After the Hunt looks like a smaller drama. I thought it looked very good. I'm really excited. And even as we all noted, having seen the trailer, they still cut in like the classic Julia Roberts smile and laugh in what is like a campus like politics drama, I think. Yes. So they know what works and she is still being used to see smaller movies. She's also apparently going to be in Sam's next movie, Panic Carefully. Well. Looking forward to that. But it's hard out here. Yeah. She's 57. You know, she's put in a lot of work.

47:29She's been a star since she was like 20 years old. And I don't know. I'm looking forward to it. Maybe after the hunt is like an Oscar contender. Maybe she's in the Oscar conversation. That would be really fun. It's in play. To have her around. It's not ridiculous. I'm glad she's still on the list. 35 seems fine to me. Number 34 is Mahershala Ali. Now, he was not on the list last time. I think he might have been ineligible. Because he had been kind of taking a backseat and had been prepping Blade. And then Blade fell apart. And so he's not making Blade. And then Sinners came in and was just like, we don't need Blade.

48:01We have Sinners. He has two Academy Awards. And now he also has Jurassic World Rebirth coming. And then he's arguably the key voice in Spider-Man Beyond the Spider-Verse because he's the prowler in this alternate universe. Do you remember this? Where the last one ended? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There were like 85 of them. And so he's the bad guy in the alternate universe. Or the mentor to the other Miles. Anyway, we'll see what happens. And then he's in Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother, which is a Bossom Tarek movie who was the guy who was going to direct Blade. So, Jurassic World Rebirth, he has like the Han Solo part.

48:36You know, he's got the Harrison Ford. I'm the quippy, dashing hero guy. Now, you got to just check your negativity. How do you mean? Dinosaurs are allowed to be in movies. I never said they weren't. You know, it's like we had 36 Marvel movies now. I watched Destroy All Monsters with my daughter yesterday. That is beautiful. I just, Dinosaurs are great. It's going to be fine. Okay. You feel good. Mersh Lawley's 51. Well, good for him. He looks great. He looks great. I saw him at 8 a.m. in the lobby of the Caesar's Palace at CinemaCon. He looked great. Nice. Any further thoughts? No. So, you know.

49:14That was incredibly funny when he presented on stage and then later in the day he zoomed in from wherever, from his house in Los Angeles. I guess so. Number 33. Your girl, Anne Hathaway. So you added her to this list, which I thought was fascinating. Now, of course I support this. Can I honestly tell you what my methodology was? Yes. Like the way I put together this first list was I just Googled the cast of The Odyssey. And then whoever we didn't have on the list, I put on the list. I'm happy to hear you say that because I could tell. Yeah, of course. But you're right. There is something to that because this is the most anticipated movie in the world for the next roughly 14 months.

49:52Anne Hathaway, she's 42 years old. she's been all kinds of movies it's an interesting next little stretch here for her because she has Mother Mary the new David Lowery movie which is coming out I assume at the end of this year from A24 where she plays a pop star and then Verity which is the next Colleen Hoover adaptation which is directed by Michael Showalter who directed her last movie which was called The Idea of You The Idea of You where she banged a 28 year old boy band guy you don't have to say it like that she found a new chapter of her life she let that guy hit it raw and they fell in love and it was beautiful.

50:28I love that movie. And then she's in The Odyssey and then she's in a movie I can't wait for but just got pushed by 16 months which is never a good sign. It's called Flower Vale Street directed by David Robert Mitchell who made It Follows. And speaking of dinosaurs apparently dinosaurs figure prominently into this movie. So don't tell me that I don't care about dinosaurs because I do. You need to tell yourself that. You know? I love Anne Hathaway. I'm proud of her and I'm happy for her. Academy Award winner. She's also out and about like a lot right now. There's an incredible thing happening on TheRinger.com right now, which is called the Millennial Cannon Bracket, which I love and is very funny.

51:05And one of the seeds in that bracket is going back and forth between loving and hating Anne Hathaway. Yeah. Chef's kiss. I, of course, love her. Okay. Number 32 is Bradley Cooper. Some debate about this. Well, the question of is he eligible? because we don't actually know and we are assuming that he's eligible because he's Bradley Cooper. Let's just say cosmically that this is the Chris Hemsworth, Christian Bale, Bradley Cooper Memorial 32nd position. Okay. Because these 50-something guys may or may not... Is Chris Hemsworth 50? He's got to be getting up there, right? 46 maybe? 41. Wow. Yeah, I was going to say.

51:47That was, yeah. Sorry to him. Also a Leo. Is he? Yeah. I wouldn't say he has that energy. A little bit too chipper and kind. I think he's Australian, Leo. Once they don't have to wear shoes. Never stop being you. Cooper. I'd love to go. I would as well. I'll see you in roughly 20 years since I send my child to college. So he was in Maestro and he was in Nightmare Alley. So those are two leading roles. Is this thing on? Is his next directorial effort? Will Arnett, who apparently is his best friend, is the star of that movie. Everyone is Bradley Cooper's best friend when he's working. Did you see the video with Timothee Chalamet and Saquon Barkley?

52:32I did. I was like, are they best friends? What's happening here? We're going through a lot with Saquon Barkley in my house right now. You think he approves of that movie tariff? I think that I am just getting rid of the shirt and getting a tiny Jalen Hurts t-shirt instead. That's my plan. But yeah, Bradley Cooper is everyone's best friend. Like they all show up and they're like, Bradley, you know, and everyone has nice things to say about him. Did you also see that he and Gigi Hadid are Instagram official now? She posted a photo of them kissing. So that's what's up with Bradley Cooper. I'm going to do that with my wife tonight.

53:07Guys, we're official. Eileen and I are for real. After 26 years.

53:15Cooper, I feel like has been doing some weird self-sabotage. Maestro, that's a cool thing. crazy movie that I love just from the mind of a maniac. Still don't understand what was going on there. I loved it. Is this thing on? I guess it's about a talk show host, radio host who has like a crisis of faith of some kind. Bradley Cooper literally plays Will Arnett's best friend in the movie. We just don't know how big his part is. If it's a big part and he's a lead and he qualifies, if he doesn't, then you can say, just kidding, it's Christian Bale or Chris Hemsworth. Number 31. Lupita Nyong 'o. Quiet Place Day One doing a lot of work here.

53:50Now, you have, I understand that the wild robot does not count, but you tried to bring it up against me with Pedro Pascal. I mean, 12 Years a Slave, Black Panther, Us, Star Wars, Wakanda Forever, A Quiet Place Day 1, and then she's going to be in the Odyssey. You know. She's got a big part in the Odyssey. She's Clytemnestra. So, I like it. I like her. I'm open to it. Speaking of people I saw at CinemaCon, two years ago, I saw her walking the floor of Caesar's Palace the CinemaCon? Stunning. I almost fell over. Okay. Number 30 is Glenn Powell. Glenn Powell was not originally on the list. What was going on there with you?

54:28Well, I put, I made a category for, I think, Glenn, Sebastian Stan, Chris Hemsworth. Like, because I'm not thinking of Chris Hemsworth as a 50-year-old. I was, you know, late 30s, early 40s. I was thinking 66. Okay, so I was grouping all all of these super charismatic, like blockbuster stars of that generation together. And I was like, okay, who gets the spot? And I think you corrected me and I'm glad I'm thrilled that it's going to be Glenn. Glenn's 36. He finally qualified for the big boy list. Yeah. He's got, he's, his last two years are pretty crazy. Obviously coming off of the success of Maverick in 22 hit man, Anyone But You Twisters is legitimate fame.

55:19And then now we know in The Fall of the Running Man, at some point Huntington, the new, an A24, I think crime thriller will come out. And then he's the star of the new J.J. Abrams movie, which is very secretive, but that's a big deal. Yeah. So I feel good about him at 30. I'm excited for him. Next is Michelle Yeoh.

55:42She's an Oscar winner. It's a complete legend and is in Wicked for some reason, but that's fine. And also in Avatar 4. I think her performance in Wicked stinks, but she's a big star. And she's going to be in Avatar movie after this. She's also like been very persistent in the movies in the last five years in a way that not a lot of her contemporaries, you know, she's in her 60s. But Crazy Rich Asians, Shang-Chi, Everything Everywhere All at Once, Oscar win, and Haunting in Venice. A movie that we both saw. Yes, which is not a good film. But she was in it. Yeah. She was one of the stars. She was there.

56:19Okay. Number 28, Jason Momoa. Yeah. So, I was a little dubious of this when I saw you had it on the list. But I... I have two words for you. Do you know what they are? Aquaman No Minecraft Chicken Jocker Okay, great.

56:43Momoa is... It's a thing. It is a thing. I'm thinking about like, what is his future as an actor? Like, obviously he was in Fast X. He was in the Aquaman movies. He was in Fall Guy, very amusingly at the end of Fall Guy. He's going to be in Supergirl. What is in the hand of Dante? You know what? Hold on. I'm so glad you asked because... Hold on, of Dante. I was like, what? Oh, it's the Julian Schnabel movie. Oh, yeah. That's ridiculous. I'm not sure if he's actually going to be Lobo in the new DC universe. Lobo is another character. He was sort of like DC's response to Wolverine in, you know what I'm saying?

57:26So Aquaman died? I think they're just like resetting all that. The oceans are dying, so he is too? Something to that, I would say. What's the Wrecking Crew? Angel Manuel Soto. What happened to Patrick Wilson, his brother? Orm? Yeah. The Ocean Master? Yeah. What did happen to Orm? With her Orm? I don't know. I think often of Orm. Yeah, how'd they resolve that? What was Willem Dafoe's character's name in that movie? Don't remember. It was like Crab Daddy. I can't recall. This movie sounds good, though, that he's going to be in, written by Jonathan Tropper, who is writing Your Friends and Neighbors, a TV show I'm watching right now with some reservations.

58:03The Wrecking Crew is about two half-brothers a loose cannon cop played by Momoa and a disciplined Navy SEAL played by Dave Bautista who must work together to unravel a conspiracy behind their father's murder in Hawaii. I'm in. I'm in on that. Okay, Momoa is 28. Who's 27? Channing Tatum. Lot riding on Roofman. Yeah, but we did walk out of that theater in Vegas and we were like, Roofman! Yeah, Roofman is kind of what I wish all movies were. even though I haven't seen it and I don't know if it's going to be good. It's okay. We like that it's coming. We like the idea. He's definitely... Tatum is back.

58:46It seemed like he had taken some time away. And then he did Lost City, Magic Mike's Last Dance, Fly Me to the Moon, Deadpool and Wolverine, and Blink Twice all in a tight period of time. Roofman is Derek Christine Francis' new movie. It's his first movie in a really long time. I think the last big thing he did was The Light Between Oceans with Fassbender and Alicia Vikander. Oh, yeah. It was really nice. Great spotters. Roofman comes out in October. It's Channing Tatum, Kirsten Dunst. Channing Tatum plays a thief, a robber, who robs McDonald's. Yes. And is arrested and escapes from prison or evades capture and then hides in the Toys R Us.

59:26Yeah. It's based on a true story. Yes. I think he evades. Evades capture. It looked pretty cool. It looked exciting, emotional. You're rooting for the, you know, the Robin Hood of the... Yeah. It seemed nice. Every Derek C in France movie is about a guy whose dad never told him he loved him. And so he has to do crime to feel better about the world, but then also resolve all of his trauma within a two-hour period. These, of course, are the best films ever made. Let's apply it to everyone else in the world. You know, like if everybody could just get their work, their shit out in the Derek Ciena Friends movie.

1:00:05I might do a solo watch along of Place Beyond the Pines. Okay. I love that movie. Okay. I'm excited for Chanty. Oh yeah, we never did our watch along. I know. What should we do? I don't want to just do like a great movie. I like to do something that's a little weird. Okay. You know, we did Dark Knight Rises. That was very funny. Okay. We did Free Guy. That was great. We did Babylon. We did. Right. We did the Snyder Cut. I remember that. And we did Tenet. We did Tenet. Yeah. Okay. We've done two Nolans, so probably not another Nolan. Okay. At least for now. I'll think about it. Okay. If people out there in the world, if you want to know, add AK Dobbins on all social media platforms.

1:00:43Number 26, Viola Davis. So, did you watch G20? I never did. God damn it. Sean. You promised me. Sean, do you know how many films Paul Newman made? A lot of movies. It's like so many movies. and I'm doing the work, buddy. So I honestly, I forgot. What do you think? You think he was good? Yeah, I'm a fan. You think he should have been on this list? Should dead Paul Newman be on this list? I'm a handsome man. Just wanted to point that out. Super hot. Very, very hot guy. Really alarming. A lot of movies where he's just like, excuse me, I just need to take my shirt off. He's very good at that. Even at like 55 and you're just like, how are you?

1:01:19We've lost a little muscle mass, but you are still jacked. This is where Cruz got it from. Yeah. He learned a lot. You didn't watch G20 because you were watching the collected works of Paul Newman. And also another simple favor. Yeah. I forgot that she was in The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. Yeah. I hated that. It wasn't a very good movie. Never have I diverged more in opinion than My Sister Grace, who was just like, that was a classic film. Is she excited about, is it Jesse Plemons who's playing Plutarch Heavensby? I don't think she's aware. Plutarch Heavensby? God, I mean, what are we doing?

1:01:52What do you mean? That's perfect casting. No, I just mean that you and I were like, we showed up to work today to say Plutarch Heavensby and Union. In unison? It's over. I'm dead inside. I'm completely co-opted by the movie machine. Viola Davis is a massive star. She was five on this list last time. She's kind of had a quiet couple of years. I think she also, we did this list right after Ayr last time. Did we? I think so because, in our notes, we have kind of like what they've done, their resume upcoming, and you had it written in that she was going to get another Oscar nomination for Ayr. It didn't work out.

1:02:27She's very good in that movie. She's wonderful in that movie. But I think that indicates that we were coming off of air. And so it's another thing where timing is a little bit of an issue here, where she hasn't had that much. Agreed. Number 25, Adam Sandler. Yeah. Is it too low? I'm really excited for this summer. He was 14 last time. Yeah. I think you put him here at this space of the list. It's been a sort of, it's been, I would say, a semi-muted stretch since Uncut Gems, with the exception of Hustle, which I think has a lot of fans. otherwise he's been mostly sticking to murder mystery Netflix comedies you know and Spaceman which didn't really take off pardon the pun yeah this year is a big one for him now these are two Netflix movies that he has coming one of which is of course Happy Yomor 2 which is being released on my birthday incredibly excited about I'm gonna drop an edible and just relax for two hours and have the time of my life laughing and then Jay Kelly which is the new Noah Baumbach movie We'll have a six-hour episode about that film.

1:03:30I just, I can't wait. As I understand it, Sandler is in the number two role in that movie. Jay Kelly is the Clooney character who I think is an aging movie star. Sandler, a lot of Oscar buzz. Oh. Do we have nine months of Sandler content in us? Sandler and Julia Roberts in the Oscar combo? Wow. We're really, we're building the Oscars of our 90s dreams. Yes, I know. But that'd be great. It's our time. You know what? We're old. It is our time. You guys can have Minecraft. I need Adam Sandler's Academy Award. That might be too low for Sandler. It's tough with the Netflix thing. You don't really know how to gauge it.

1:04:09But also, again, this is a timing thing. Those movies are not out yet, you know, in a few months. I don't get the impression Happy Gilmore 2 will be competing at the Academy Awards. Well, sure, but that doesn't matter. It's for us. It is for us. Okay, 24. Jennifer Lawrence. So this was our first big cheat. Yeah. Technically, she's not 35 until August 15th. 2025. Yes. Again, one more Leo. Is August 15th still Leo? I believe so. Wow. Yeah, I think it's like towards the end, but I don't think it's into Virgo season. And she's not a Virgo. That's just not the energy. Lynne Ramsey's Die My Love was added to Cannes.

1:04:45Yeah, you just started crying. I didn't start crying. And you were like, I hate France and I'm never going. Okay. It all worked out. We've lost the plot. Spike Lee, what was going to be there when Ramsey's going to be there I'm not uh-huh whose fault is that yours it's not mine it's this is these are the your own designs you're living in your own reality you know when you're at home and you and Zach are having a disagreement are you like I was just having this same fight with Sean um or you just say that to me about the fight you're having with your husband no I know better which of course is not a fight from Zach's perspective only from yours just as I feel these are not fights from my perspective.

1:05:26No, no, no, no, no. I do think the can convo, and they've really messed up Gmail search because I have the proof of me being informed of these dates and saying that's when can is. You have the proof, eh? I do, but I can't find it because I email you and Zach too much because I do email. Sounds like you'll never be able to countersue. and I'll be in abandoned dunes, luxuriating in the sun. Your arms are all going to fall off on the first day, and then it's going to be like we didn't go to France. I've been training. Yeah, I know. So she'll, why were we talking about this? Because Die My Love is going to Cannes, which is great for her.

1:06:10I hope it's a wonderful film. I've really turned it around on J-Law over the last few years. I thought No Hard Feelings was quite good. Very funny, yeah. Causeway enjoyed her performance in that. She's very good. she was not on this list last time because she didn't qualify technically still doesn't qualify moving on number 23 Emily Blunt yeah Academy Award nominated for her work in Oppenheimer sure she then appeared in the film Pain Hustlers which you loved she was great in The Fall Guy she was really good in The Fall Guy I liked her in The Fall Guy a lot and then she's got The Smashing Machine coming new movie with The Rock from A24 and then she's the star of the new Steven Spielberg UFO movie yeah so that's kind of like being knighted you know it is sort of I am glad that she's out of the Mary Poppins Jungle Cruise stretch she got her streaming TV show thing out of her system with the English which I never watched but Chris and Andy swear by she was 33 last time but tack on an Oscar nomination sure and then let's not forget she's also going to be the co-star in the Dwayne Johnson Martin Scorsese movie reportedly allegedly allegedly that's the Hawaii one supposedly that is the Hawaii one sounds great why do they why is he her you know state so Hawaii is one of not in the contiguous 50 it's the contiguous 48 those details weren't released so so Alaska is Seward's Folly what is the is there a nickname for Hawaii is it like Roosevelt's Joy no have you been to Hawaii it's so nice I love it there yes Are you kidding?

1:07:52I gotta get back there. Yeah. Emily Blunt, why is she The Rock's safety blanket now? What's going on with that? I don't know. They seem to like each other. They have some patter. What do you think Krasinski thinks about that? You know? I don't know. He's just, you know, having imaginary friends in their palatial Brooklyn apartment. apartment. Is if actually a psychological thriller about how he's coping with Emily Blunt spending all her time at The Rock and where his mind goes in the absence. So if it's like the home where all the imaginary friends live because they got retired because kids don't have imagination anymore?

1:08:35Well, yeah. They grow up to be adults and then they no longer have access to their friend because they've lost their joy. They've lost their youthful joy. But then they all refined it again. Do you think we should do If as a watch along?

1:08:50So you're watching If for the first time. Oh my God, can we make Chris watch an If made a movie? Has he seen The Lion King? No. He's definitely never seen The Lion King. Well, maybe in his Uncle Duty is somewhere along the line. Okay. Number 22. Who is it? Tom Hanks. Not quite 70. He's getting there. Yeah. He's pretty good. He's got two Academy Awards. Yeah. One of the signature American movie stars, in my opinion. He gave an astonishing performance in Here. Yeah, which you loved. The last scene was very affecting. I won't spoil it because I'm getting in trouble for spoiling things. He is part of the Wes Anderson ensemble now, like, you know, in his 60s, which rocks.

1:09:31I did see his performance in the Phoenician Scheme recently. We're not talking about it. He's also making another, he's making a sequel to the movie about the warship. Greyhound. Greyhound 2 get greyer so they saved the ship in the first one I can't recall I can't either I simply can't recall I couldn't even tell which one was Greyhound he was on that ship he was very sternly delivering orders to his men to turn stern the bow okay all kinds of important military things during the war the great war yeah the war to end all wars he's in Toy Story 5 as well yeah excited about that i'll see it we did a monsters inc monsters university double bill on saturday and sunday over the weekend wow how'd it go so well we did monsters inc at the academy museum oh i think we only did like the first 40 minutes because was he scared uh no he wasn't okay but they do a nice thing they do great family screenings where they keep the lights up and i think that that had a big thing to do with it and he seemed to think it was funny um it is very funny.

1:10:41And even like when the monsters were coming in, you know, we watched the whole like training sequence and all the good setup. And then he was like two and a half so we had to leave. I see. Tom Hanks used to be number nine on this list. He's now number 22. Okay. We still have 21 more names to read. Okay. This is going really well. Who's next? Cate Blanchett. She was 12 last time. Yeah. I think we were coming off tar. We were coming off tar. Yeah. Should she be lower? Is this too high? Borderlands not her fault but a fiasco right disclaimer disclaimer what the hell Black Bag rocks Black Bag doing a lot of work here it's our list just Cate Blanchett she'll next be seen at Cannes is she gonna be at Cannes I don't know you were yelling that why is the Jim Jarmusch movie not did this not get announced for Cannes maybe it didn't I think it did let's see Jim Jarmusch father mother sister brother news This is podcasting.

1:11:40No, nothing yet. What the actual fuck? Oh, okay. Now you hate France again. Cate Blanchett is a wonderful actor and an underrated movie star. Should she... Who do you want to trade her with? Gosh. I don't know. I mean, when you look down the list of actresses, you could see Ana de Armas vaulting if Ballerina is a real hit. You know what I mean? Like someone like that. Like she's, Alan Adarmas is never going to be considered the actor that Cate Blanchett is. Cate Blanchett by force of will by doing like Thor and Ocean's 8. She kind of like thrust herself. Obviously she's in the Lord of the Rings movies, kind of thrust herself into a level of fame.

1:12:22She comes back, you know? She does. She does. She continues to play in those movies. We'll keep her there for now. Again, check back on this list in two months. It might look a little bit different. Okay. Fortunately, we get to wait two years before we do it again. Number 20 is Robert Downey Jr. Mm-hmm. is he going to be in the Fantastic Four first steps? I guess that makes sense because Dr. Doom is the primary antagonist of the Fantastic Four. Did you know that? Do I need to be a part of this conversation? I just copied and pasted from Wikipedia, man. He was in Oppenheimer. He won an Academy Award.

1:12:53Yeah. I saw that. Louis Strauss. Not Strauss. What did that guy do? Strauss. He blamed Oppenheimer. Well, he worked to undermine him to further the development of an array of missiles and warheads to compete with the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Got it. He was an unkind bureaucrat who attempted to tarnish the reputation of a great man. Yeah. I guess. There's always one of those. There's always one of those. He was 17 last time. He did win an Academy Award since last being on this list. Literally, he hasn't done any. He did the Sympathizer, which is cool, but I don't really think worked out.

1:13:33And now he's just like another Marvel character. The Doctor Doom reveal thing did pop. It was in a certain quartile of the world, but it was a big deal. I'm not really, I don't really love that he's going back to Marvel for obvious reasons. I know it's a big deal, but it's not that cool. Do you dislike when I start like kind of negotiating, debating through the list after we've already made it? Well, I just, yes, because then you're making it as I am the sole author of the list and you just get to edit it. I'm merely making a podcast. Yeah, sure. Okay. Who's number 19? Keanu Reeves. This is a very interesting one because of what he has coming up.

1:14:12Obviously, he's an icon forever. Right. He's been a part of huge franchises. He's given great performances in, you know, awards, films, dramas. Something's got to give. Well, he did Yeoman's work in that film as an unreasonably hot doctor willing to give away his libido to a 70-year-old man, as one does. He's 60? Yeah. Wow. Is his hair undyed? I don't know. But if it's dyed, then that's great. I'm not judging him. I'm just curious. I don't know. It's really, it's coming in now. Yeah. Yeah, some people. The gray white is coming in over here. It could be dyed. That's okay. Okay. Should I die? No, because then you'll be like George Clooney.

1:15:01That's the thing. So, because you haven't. So, George Clooney dyed his hair for Broadway. I saw that, but that was for the character. I know, but then he just is living in it, and he was like on the Today Show on it. And he, I mean, he's being self-deprecating about it. He looks insane. He's like, I know that I look insane, and my wife and kids think that it's funny. But he was like a silver fox 20 years ago. Exactly, and that's the thing. But like once the gray starts, you can't just change it one day. So that's your problem. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to delete this episode. We're not going to release it.

1:15:30I'm going to dye my hair this afternoon. And then we're not going to speak of this again. Okay. I have no desire to dye my hair. Keanu is a great choice. So he's got ballerina coming out where he was asked to come in and reshoot some scenes so they could get people interested in that movie. So they could have Keanu, the John McMagic. He plays an angel in the forthcoming Aziz Ansari comedy Good Fortune. I believe the angel Gabriel. I don't know whether it's the angel Gabriel or a angel named Gabriel. Well, we're going to find out when we see the film. Bring your Bibles, folks. And then the entertainment system is down.

1:16:01That's a pretty important angel. Absolutely. He's one of the key angels, one of the critical angels. It's the name of my memoir, The Critical Angel. The entertainment system is down is Ruben Ostland's next film, who is a filmmaker who I used to love and now I think might be kind of a dope. but I'm excited about that movie. Kirsten Dunst. Kiki. Yeah. She's been Instagramming photos from that set, which is just like, you know, they built a plane in a hangar. Do you think it will be a withering satire about how we're all idiots? Probably. Do I, you know. I mean, the problem with him is that like, he's right, but like, I know.

1:16:36Yeah. This is kind of how I felt about another Kirsten Dunst movie, Civil War. So, yeah. He's right, but you know. She's, yeah, exactly. Number 18 is Charlize Theron. Yeah. Now, I don't really know what's going on here. She was number two in 2021. She was number seven in 2023. Yeah. And then she took some time. Since then, she's been in Fast X. And she's going to be in the Old Guard 2. Yeah. And this is where the Odyssey is doing a lot of work. She's Charlize. Like, you think she just shouldn't be on this list? I think she should make movies. Okay, well, talk to her. Well, I can. If I could speak with her, I probably would.

1:17:17but that's just not in my power right now. I'm obviously a huge fan. I think she's a genuinely phenomenal movie star. It's just like if Julia Roberts is on the list at 35, then Charlize also gets to be on the list even though the spacing between her movies has been a little weird. I'm not arguing she shouldn't be on the list but just maybe she's raising a family. I don't know. I wish her well. I hope she makes more movies. She does have a few coming down the pike. The Old Guard 2. We were fine on the old guard. That was Gina Prince, by the way, and that's not who directed this one. I think Victoria Mahoney directed this new one, I think.

1:17:55I don't even know how I know who that person's name is, but maybe it'll be good. I shouldn't dismiss it out of hand. Who's number 17? It's your fave. You put him here. His name is Chris Pratt. Did I put him here? No, I think I did. You did. I'm pretty sure you did. But you're not wrong. You're not wrong. He's Garfield. Renowned for his work as Garfield in the film Garfield? he's Star-Lord he's the chubby guy from Parks and Rec Andy yeah what was his name in the Electric State Jim State yeah great people seem to like his movies what's the he's in a crazy movie I don't know some people seem to be happy you know Selby on Jim State that's the best I can do here it's been an hour already it's been an hour and 15 minutes I'm sorry I was too busy trying to recall the plot of the insane movie that he introduced at cinema con movies called mercy right it's gonna be minority report for people with a brain injury um and it honestly looked pretty entertaining rebecca ferguson is also in it right it looked entertaining yeah she did like a pre-recorded facetime call uh she did yeah she did and then he was just there being like i'm strapped to the no one has seen this footage this movie doesn't come out for a year it looked pretty stressful but I remember Matt Bellamy being like that looks like the kind of streaming movie that I will watch until the end but it's coming out in theaters it'll stream eventually I think it's a January 2026 release number 16 is Robert Pattinson I lobbied for Bob Patz I think he needs to be on the list you know that I love him deeply now Mickey 17 not a huge hit obviously but he has quite an array of films coming up and he is Batman.

1:19:44We don't know when Batman 2 is coming. There's been some confusion about whether or not the script is done or not. Whether or not Matt Reeves is going to go forward with it. How it fits into the James Gunn thing. Does James Gunn recognize Robert Pattinson as Batman? In the films made by Matt Reeves but not in the universe he's creating. Okay. You asked that question and you got the answer that you deserved. I honestly, that look of disgust was not directed towards you. It was directed towards James Gunn and his aesthetic choices. I like the film The Batman quite a bit. I love Tenet. Me too. Mickey 17 I liked.

1:20:21I think people are like weirdly too hard on it. Sometimes you like to like kick a guy, you know, you're like, hmm, you had your parasite moment. Maybe you're not so good at all. Yeah, we like this, but also, you know, why is there a Trump character for an hour? So, I was thinking about this over the weekend. If Kamala Harris were the president, there would be a lot more warmth towards the movie would be my opinion. Sure. There would be a lot of things. It would feel more like an artifact of political satire rather than an active moment of political satire. Okay. Fair enough. Just my take. Pattinson, I think is great.

1:20:52Die My Love. Exciting. At 10, without you. The Drama, which is a new drama apparently starring Zendaya and Pattinson coming out later this year. Can't wait. The Odyssey. Yeah. Who is he? He's Zeus. I don't know. I'm not sure. That would be funny. A film called Primetime and The Batman 2, in theory. Are you guys into Greek mythology over at your house yet? We do have a - Did you read the book? I gave you that book, so that's why you have it. Yes, we've read every story. Okay. Every chapter is 38 pages, so it is like a deathless struggle to get - But they're beautiful illustrations. I think the book is wonderful, Amanda, but God, it's like roughly 40 minutes just to get through one story.

1:21:33And then as soon as we finish one, she's like, can we read the next one? So, nice purchase. We're trying to keep bedtime to a reasonable stretch. This is Dolaire's Book of Greek Myths for anyone who doesn't know the classic. There's also apparently a really good podcast for kids that I'm going to put Alice on, too. Okay, that sounds great. Alice, as you know, very fond of stories. I wonder where she gets that from. Oh, he's playing Hermes, according to the first Google. That checks out. I can see it. That checks out. Isn't Hermes bald, canonically? I actually don't know if that's canonical. You have read Dolaire's more recently than I.

1:22:06well uh i think that yeah i'm not sure i'm gonna give that some thought who's 15 margot robbie now she's not 35 for another eight weeks okay but it's important that we get her on this list she's not a leo i believe she's a cancer just like alice yeah she went from are we sure she's good to this person matters greatly to me after babylon to this person changed your life in Barbie. And now... What is your doing there? Your life. Your life was... You saw Barbie and you said women can have it all. Barbie was a phenomenon. That's all. It made a shit ton of money. It made more money than Oppenheimer.

1:22:50I just kind of like... So you're saying you didn't like it? I loved it. But I just... You don't need to just... You know... As I recall, it was your number two movie of the year. Yeah. Okay. Was it better than Oppenheimer? To me, yes. Interesting. Um, she's also going to be in Wuthering Heights with her. Yeah, I'm concerned about this. Off and on partner, Emerald Fennel. And then she's going to be in a Big Bowl of Beautiful Journey in September, which I'm very excited about. Opposite Colin Farrell. She was number one on 35 Under 35. Yeah. Let's see if it translates. Okay. I think we will. Um, 14.

1:23:27Who is it? Joaquin Phoenix. Tricky time for old Joaquin. we got the folia de disaster we got the backing out of the Todd Haynes movie hate to hear about that yeah not a fan Napoleon didn't really hit internationally though it did oh okay did very well in Europe okay so I liked it I liked it too yeah and now he's got Eddington this is he's the rare just like really good actor who's so weird and has kind of fallen into enough franchise parts, mostly through Joker. But I mean, I got, you know, Gladiator. Yeah, walk the line. Yeah, that he's legit. But it's hard to do what Joaquin is doing. So you say tricky times.

1:24:17I say, you know, he's painting his masterpiece. Okay, so Joaquin was 18 previously. This next guy, never been on one of our lists ever. And he finds himself at 13. Who is it? It's Sean's favorite movie star, Jack Black. Jack Black. Jack motherfucking Black. Jack Black, recent guest on Good Hang with Amy Poehler. Phenomenal episode of the show. Oh, wow. They're booking very well on that show. They really are. They're better than here. They don't have Nicolas Cage, do they? They don't. Shout out to Amy. You know, it dawned on me after I saw Minecraft. that this is a huge movie star. This guy, Minecraft plus Super Mario Brothers.

1:25:07Plus Kung Fu Panda. Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Plus Jumanji. Hmm. I forgot that they were still doing that. That's$3 billion in movies. Right. $4 billion. That's a lot. How many Jack Black movies has your child seen? Zero. Same. Zero. We've never watched a Kung Fu Panda or the Super Mario Brothers movie. I do think that's probably coming for us. Right, because her cousins are into Super Mario Brothers. We've got a whole week coming with our cousins, so that'll be interesting. What gets in the bloodstream there after the trip? Some Princess Peach vibes coming strong. No question. He's next going to appear in the film Anaconda, which I think is going to be a tongue-in-cheek riff on the 90s classic Anaconda starring Hollywood ambassador Jon Voight.

1:25:57and Jennifer Lopez. Okay. I wrote the script. So finally, my dreams are making it to the big screen. You like a snake? I don't mind them. Okay. What about a giant snake? No, I think that would scare me a bit. I don't really want to interact with them. Definitely don't want to keep one as a pet in my home. Okay. Well, you've got two boys in your house, so I wish you luck. Number 12 is Ryan Reynolds. Here we go. I mean, I get like, you know, Deadpool and Wolverine. We get it. Free Guy. Mint Mobile. The Atom Project. Red Notice. Deadpool 2, which I liked. He's got an animated movie coming up called Animal Friends.

1:26:42Yeah. And then he's got an original with Apple called Mayday. He was previously 21. He's now 12. I think there's like a really like a grudging acceptance at this point that we are kind of living in Ryan Reynolds' century. Yeah. And what does that mean for us as a culture? I don't think we love it, but if it keeps the theaters open and gives people discount mobile service and also a soccer team in Wales, then that's where it is, right? That's where Wrexham is? I believe so. You can never watch an episode of that. Nor I. Yeah, he's hanging on. I did think that the Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni...

1:27:25of it all was notable for a number of reasons, but like the way that he was brought into it and the way that, um, they tried to go for his reputation as well. And it definitely did not stick in the way that it did for Blake Lively. Now, obviously we live in a sexist world and especially when it's people on, on Instagram and on Instagram, Instagram comments. We live in a sexist world. I don't understand what you mean. You mean that somehow men are judged differently than women? in our culture. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And especially like who's responsible for this. Sticking up for themselves. But.

1:27:59Wait, go back. When did this start? Okay, okay, girl, dad. I'm going to come over with my PowerPoint. Great. She's being raised to be confident. She is extremely confident. Deeply informed. Yeah. It is clearly making her an asshole know it all, but we're working through it. I take the blame. Anyway, I was, for a moment there it was wobbly with him and then everyone decided that they didn't care. I think he's very good at his thing and once upon a time his thing the absolute ceiling of it was Chevy Chase and now all of a sudden his thing is billion dollar movie star and I find some of the persona to be deeply unpleasant in comic book movies we could do worse honestly that's how I feel about the Deadpool movies it's like they're silly they're stupid they're kind of they're profane and ridiculous but like that's okay.

1:28:53They're comic book movies. Other stuff, when he's trying to make like a Spielberg-esque touching sci-fi dramedy, I'm like, just get the fuck out of here. Like, this sucks, dude. I really don't like those movies at all. You didn't like him as the doting father in If? No, he was the surrogate. He was the stand-in for... He was the lost friend. Oh, that's right. Krasinski was the creepy father who keeps hiding in the closet in the hospital bedroom. It was a very strange movie. There's so much if talk on this episode. Ryan Reynolds is a huge star. We're saying, though, that Ryan Gosling is at number 11 a bigger star.

1:29:41Is that actually true? I mean... To us, it is. The Ryan and Ryan battle here at 12 and 11 is very interesting to me. They're both right on the outside of the top 10. Ryan Gosling is, of course, in theory, the more sophisticated and interesting actor, the more appealing, famous person. I guess so, but Barbie in Star Wars, you know? That's kind of, that's what the, that's what inches him this high up, in my opinion. The I'm Just Ken performance at the Oscars is what I'm leaning on for this ranking. Yeah. Which was, that was one of the best Oscar moments of the last five years. Incredibly memorable.

1:30:23In fact, I can feel the Oscars wanting to chase that for the next five years. Yeah. Only he could have done that. And then we did get a chance to see Project Hail Mary footage when we were in Las Vegas. And we're psyched. It looked great. It looked very exciting. I can't say I'm thrilled about Star Wars colon Starfighter directed by Sean Levy, better known as Ryan Reynolds' creative partner. I'm not thrilled about it either. But, you know, Star Wars is in the title along with Starfighter. It's like the premium brand name. How did you celebrate May the 4th?

1:31:00What did I do? I looked at a local pizza establishment's Instagram post saying that their old school TV and VHS had been fixed so that they could be playing the trilogy all day long. No kidding. Yeah. And then I reflected on how I tried to go to that pizza place on Friday night, but it was too crowded. So we had to leave. You know, when this episode goes up, it will be revealed that the next rewatchables episode is a little movie called Star Wars, A New Hope. Which we did. So when is that? Are you sure? I just got really nervous. You're sure about the timing? Jack, don't screw this up. I was struck by Zeus Simmons' Thunderbolt.

1:31:44No, yeah. It'll be up tonight. Oh, great. That's exciting. I'll listen to it. Yeah, we did that. And Ryan Gosling didn't come up. Okay. Let's do the top 10. All right. I like this pick at number 10. Who is it? It's a man named Matt Damon. Big vault up from 23. Yeah. So Gosling, the last two years, has completely rebuilt his image. He was 35. Matt Damon now has vaulted up too. So the last time that we did it was right after air. And we were like, pretty good. But, you know, this is a movie about marketing. and then Oppenheimer and the Odyssey came through yeah and also Rip which is his new movie with Ben Affleck coming out later this year I do think that like Matt at 10 also stands in for Ben you know they have been together standing for each other and so right now Matt's carrying the mantle what's our version of artist equity like what are we going to do together what business are we going to form that really gives back and makes us a lot of money because we sell it to streaming services for just like$200 million.

1:32:46What's our sellout move that is masquerading as an act of decency? I mean, hosting children's screenings at various Los Angeles movies. That's just called babysitting. Yeah, yeah. Matt Damon's great. I'm a huge fan. Can't say I like the movie The Instigators, but... I didn't hate it. It wasn't very good. I thought Casey Affleck was funny. Yeah. Driveaway Dolls, great cameo. Really funny, and he always does those things. he is he's a cameo king he's 54 years old yeah do you think he's hanging in supplements i do but i hope that it was safe you know i we looked at the photos speaking of supplement questions dwayne the rock johnson is number nine now curious thing here he had like a bunch of flops and then he moved up on our list yeah he's on a an epic cold streak right now i mean he's on one of the worst cold streaks I can remember.

1:33:41These are his last few movies. Okay. Red Notice, Jungle Cruise, Fast X, Black Adam, Red One. That's five stinkers in a row. Right. And yet, Smashing Machine Trailer. People are like, is it The Rock's Oscar time? Moana Live Action. Also, you left out Moana 2. Moana 2. Which I know. He was amusing. He was amusing in it. I've heard. It was okay. I've heard the feedback. It was okay. I'm actually, I've turned it around on that soundtrack. I kind of like it. Okay. Griffin Newman and I have a debate about it. He says it's not so good. It's hard to live up to Lin-Manuel Miranda. I think that's true. But yeah, so Moana live action, and then Martin Scorsese's last movie.

1:34:24He's the star of Martin Scorsese's last movie. Allegedly. What's going on there? People believe in him, even though, despite the evidence. You know, this is a city of dreams, Sean. um also also I mean he was the arts district of Los Angeles there's certainly a lot of dreamers here this is where dreams go to die um he was like top four on the national research group list and I think number one among Gen Z he has it's just like he has the razzmatazz and he has the brand name recognition independent of the movies so if you could just take him and put him into any A24 movie that's ever come out just swap him in as the lead in any of those films.

1:35:06Which one would you put him in? Showing up.

1:35:14He's doing the little sculptures with his big hand. That was as good an answer as I could have asked for. Who's number eight? Zoe Saldana. Yeah, big jump up from 27. This is what an Academy Award will get you. And also being in Guardians of the Galaxy and Avatar. Do you remember her character's name in Avatar? I'm closing my eyes. Crack your brain. Okay. Try harder. These are the biggest films of all time. Yeah. She's the star. No. Neytiri. Okay. What is Sam Worthington? Jake Sully. Oh, sure. I remember Jake Sully. Yeah. Yeah. I heard there's some Sully stuff on the rehearsal. What about the whale's name?

1:35:52Do you remember the whale? No. Payakan. Okay. And what about... Wasn't there a different... Was there a whale or a significant sea creature in Black Panther Wakanda Forever? I think you're thinking of Namor. No, I mean, that's the superhero, but isn't there? Okay. Namor. Yeah, I remember. I think you're thinking of Monstro from Pinocchio. The whale. No? Is that not what you're thinking of? Maybe I'm thinking of who was the Godzilla Kong, the new, what was the most recent Godzilla, Godzilla v. Kong? Godzilla X Kong. Okay. Thank you so much for that important clarification. And then, so Kong lives in like those, Rebecca Hall explained it so well.

1:36:48The hollow earth. You know, the hollow earth. And then under the Hollow Earth, there's like another. But is that person made of ice? The ice lizard? I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you remember? I can't remember. Like who were the antagonists in Godzilla X Kong because it's not Godzilla or Kong. I've been averaging 4.2 hours of sleep for like five years. Well, maybe that's what I was thinking of. Okay. What does this have to do with Zoe Saldana? Avatar. Right. She's also, she was in Guardians of the Galaxy. She was in the Star Trek movies. What's Avatar 4? Avatar 3 is fire? Avatar 4 is...

1:37:23Fire and ash. Sure, but so then is 4 ice? Avatar 4 is microplastics. Not funny. It is funny though. It's funny, but it's real. Number 7. Yeah. This is just great news. Michael B. Jordan. Michael B. Jordan, star of sinners. He did it. Just a movie star. He did it. There we are. I mean, obviously the Creed movies are huge, and he's beloved from Black Panther and The Wire, and less beloved for Without Remorse. But he killed it. That was really bad, yeah. It was pretty bad, yeah. Very violent. Stefano Solima, director of Sicario Day of the Soldado. That was his film. Now he, after the incredible success of Sinners, which really like at this point, again, it dropped like 25 % last weekend.

1:38:09It's going to make like$300 million. It's a huge movie. It's so cool. Thomas Crown Affairs, his next project, he's directing, and is he writing it? or maybe he's adapting someone's screenplay? I know he's directing and I know he's starring. So we haven't really talked about this. I mean, this is one of your favorite movies of all time. Yeah, the remake. Yeah, the remake. The original film. Thomas Crown Affair, parentheses, 1999. Yes. Yeah, I'm excited. Listen, art heist, great. Let's just, let's make an art heist every month for the rest of time. Have they cast the Faye Dunaway, Rene Russo part yet?

1:38:47Not that I'm aware of. Interesting. I wonder who that will go to. They didn't really have, it seems like it's still very much in the works because at CinemaCon, he zoomed in from London, but there was like no footage. There was nothing to show. Okay. Oh, it says Taylor Russell, apparently. Oh, yes. They had announced that. Yeah. She's pretty young for that. He, of course, is over 35. He's 38 years old. Shout out to him. Number six is Brad Pitt. Yeah. I would say a lot riding on F1. Yes. Wouldn't you say? I would say a huge amount is writing on F1. He's obviously a legendary movie star. Wolf's not great.

1:39:22No. F1 and then Heart of the Beast, which is a dog movie directed by David Ayer. Okay. Director of The Beekeeper. And then he's making The Continuing Adventures of Cliff Booth, the new film from David Fincher. A script by Quentin Tarantino for Netflix. Yeah. How are you feeling about that? Where are your emotions? Great. Put it in my soul. Okay. Same. Just bury it deep into my heart. Great. Which is where I want it to be. Okay. Cliff Booth. Did you read the... No, I didn't. Zach did. I need to. The novel adaptation? Yeah. I would like it. I think you would enjoy it. There's some unkind characterizations of characters in Cliff's life.

1:40:00Okay. That you may have some notes about. Some women? I didn't say that. Oh. But I've just learned on this podcast that there's somehow... Yeah, there's sexism. There's like a patriarchy of some kind. Is that the word? Things are not equal. Yeah. Interesting. We'll have to get to work on that. Okay. Speaking of the patriarchy, number five, who is it? Scarlett Johansson. Up from 15. Yes. Why is she up?

1:40:25Because of, oh, I'm trying to think of the last time we did this. It would have been like right around, right after the Black Widow and then the Disney suit. So things were like in a little bit of what's going on here. Flux with her. And then she was fantastic in Asteroid City. She was in a movie called Fly Me to the Moon, which, you know, whatever. And she has a lot of stuff on the horizon that we're counting because she's so established. So answer me this. Do you think if an actor or an actress encounters a scandal, a la the Disney pay dispute or the Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni battle, that elevates their movie stardom in any way?

1:41:15No, I think it depends on the interpretation of the, you know, does it play well for them or does it play not? Does it not? Because that affects, can they get people into theaters? And then I think it also affects, do people want to work with them? So do they even get jobs? But ScarJo's in Jurassic World, so she's fine. Number four. Yeah, this is all you. I feel very strongly about this. Yeah, you bombed in with this. And I agree, this person's on the list, but go ahead. So Emma Stone is number four. Yeah. Now, obviously, I have a soft spot for Emma Stone and always have. Here's my thing. She's cool, wonderful, so exciting, really rad.

1:42:02I get it. Like, it is, like, slightly niche, but that's okay. Slightly niche? Yeah. The star of La La Land? Is niche? Two-time Academy Award winner? Is niche? So here's the thing. She hasn't been on one of our lists since 2022. Because in 2023, she wasn't old enough to qualify for 35 over 35. And in 2024, she was too old. So now this is her chance to step into the limelight. And since we last listed her, she has got this big thing going with Yorgos Lanthimos. Right. She was in The Curse, which is the greatest show of all time. She won her second Academy Award. And now Begonia, another film with Lanthimos, her fourth movie with Yorgos Lanthimos, is coming out this fall.

1:42:50I love her. I think she's so rad. She's producing a lot of stuff. Like it's what she's doing with Yorgos Lanthimos is very cool. I mean, in terms of like movie stardom for movies with Yorgos Lanthimos, even if one of them won you an Oscar is not like. Poor thing's made like a hundred million dollars. Okay. So do a lot of movies. So did Garfield. That guy's on the list too. John Arbuckle is on the list. He's John Arbuckle. I thought he was Garfield. He's Garfield. I don't know who John Arbuckle is, actually. I think it's CR. Who's number three? Denzel Washington. He's our only septuagenarian on this list.

1:43:36And as the aforementioned highest to lowest is coming soon, he was the best part of Gladiator 2. He was. By a pretty significant margin, in my opinion. Too much. He was the best part of the Equalizer 3. Yes. Did you see that? No. But, I mean, it's my understanding that he's the best part of all the equalizers. There's some truth to that. Malcolm X, Ben Affleck said, the greatest screen performance of all time. You know what? I did watch the entire Criterion, Ben Affleck Criterion video. I thought it was very charming. And I agree with him. When you see something like that, where the love of your life and cinema collide in that way, do you need a quiet time afterwards to reflect?

1:44:14um no because i mostly spent time being like what's he gonna do with this bag of dvds like i because i he doesn't actually see you know like i want to know what's this that's what my wife says every third day but i was like i don't because i don't think that he is is a weirdo like you can you please show some goddamn respect jesus christ ben affleck in the temple of cinema speaking about the great work. I liked his picks, but they were accessible. So if he's a collector, those aren't things that he has missing from his collection, right? It's a good question about what is the purpose of the closet.

1:45:02With his particular picks, I was like, okay, if you actually do have a Blu-ray library or whatever, then don't or whatever blu-ray library which is a real phrase that exists and is in action I need you to decide on one term you know no like I'll do whatever I want if you insist that the patriarchy exists I insist that there are multiple ways to define my collection of physical media if he has a collection of discs is that can we call them discs sure um do that just like a DVD is a disc a blu-ray is a disc sacred treasures The pinnacle of a cultural art form, whatever you want to call them. Okay.

1:45:42So he's got this. If he has a collection, then he already has like Armageddon. Now, the Armageddon DVD from the Criterion Collection is out of print and extremely rare and goes for hundreds of dollars on eBay. Okay. So that may not actually be something he owns. Okay. All right. Then, you know, what's another? I can't remember what he picked. he picked Jean Renoir's rules of the game I want to say but he was like this has my favorite line in all of cinema so you think he doesn't you think he owns it well I'm just like if he doesn't if he has if he has a collection he owns it already and if he doesn't then he's just like got this like sack of of discs sometimes you have doubles you know sometimes you have doubles in your collection it's okay to have doubles he walked out with Malcolm X maybe give it to a friend maybe he heads over to Jen Garner's house he's like hey have you seen Malcolm X good film check it out show it to the kids that's why I'm like what's happening with the things and if he's giving them away to people that's great you don't know this but I give physical media to those I care about but only if they support physical media I know but you asked me what my reaction is to the video and the reaction is like what happens to that sack once he leaves so proud of Ben he didn't make the list tough beat number two is Tom Cruise he's 62 years old he's still fighting the good fight we're seeing the final reckoning in roughly seven days mhm This is just a huge moment for me in my life, seeing this film.

1:47:06I'm really excited. In the aftermath of this movie, he's making a movie that is operating under the false title of Judy right now, which is the new Alejandro Iñárritu movie. Not our favorite director, but Tom's doing a performance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm open to it. I'm excited. Last time we did this list, he was number one. He slid down to number two. Yes. Who did he slide down to number two in favor of? Leonardo DiCaprio. Why did we move him up? You moved him up, and I support you, but why? vibes. Just vibes. Just vibes. I'm just like, he is, you know, he's the only person that could get one battle after another like made and released the way that it's being released.

1:47:46Every event that he has, every movie that he has is an event. Like, I just looked at pictures of him like cleaning up plastic in Formantera with a bunch of children, you know? Like, Summer doesn't start till I see him doing water sports. So, he's just, he was like at Glenn Powell's catch-up launch. Oh. But, like, not photographed on the step-and-repeat, just kind of, like, there in the corner, which is a big look for Glenn, actually. Yeah. I, it's, he just, he has a lot of power, and it seems like he is also really focused on just being a movie star. That's what he wants to do. That's all he does.

1:48:22You know? He does that. He is a movie star. He produces documentaries about the destruction of our environment. And he goes on vacation. And he goes to the beach and plays various sports with attractive young women. Yeah. Not sure anybody's ever done it better. I'm literally not sure that there's ever been a better movie star. You might say, I like watching Cary Grant more or Humphrey Bogart evolved the idea of movie star or, you know, Jack Nicholson or Meryl Streep or any number of people over the years. The entirety of his life is focused on the three things that you just identified. Yeah. And he's smoking it.

1:48:57Absolutely. And he's also, he's a bit older than us. He's 50, which is sobering. For shame. For shame. Like he's our movie star, you know? Yeah. Yeah. He's our number one guy. He's been number one for a long time for elder millennials and younger millennials. But one battle after another is a true test. I believe. Give me a box office number right now, worldwide. Just off the top of your head. Worldwide? Like at the end of the run? The end of the run. On the day you die, what will be the total box office for one battle after another? No anxiety or shame. Just like... I don't know. But like... Like, what do you think it'll be?

1:49:37I don't know. Okay. Tell me what... What's the worldwide for sinners right now? I know it's different. I think it's like 190 something. I believe it's up to 230. Oh, great. Okay. Good for them. Okay. So 230 right now, but still going. What was the... is crazy. That's great. What was the worldwide for...

1:50:08I don't know. I was going to say 210. Oh, that would be a home run. I know. You think it can get there? I think it can. Sinners is at 230. That's what I say. 210 is what pops in my head. I do think Sinners is bigger, but hearing that... I hope that's true. Listen, it's Leo. It's IMAT. You just split my head open. We're doing an event thing. I don't know. You said to say a number and that's what popped into my head. I'm not judging you. I'm just surprised. I believe in this movie. I think it's got it. Um, yeah. In total, in total, worldwide box office for Paul Thomas Anderson's films is 317 million.

1:50:49Yeah, but in total, he's making movies since 1997. I loved licorice pizza, but like, that's not a, a bunch of people shooting guns at each other in widescreen, you know? You're right. Well, we're going to test the power of Leo. In the meantime, let's test the power of Nicolas Cage. Let's go to my conversation with him right now.

1:51:17It's an honor to be joined by Nicolas Cage. We're here to talk about The Surfer. Nicolas, at this stage of your career, it's more than 100 films in. I'm curious if you could just walk me through how you decide to take a part. What has to draw you into a script? More and more as I proceed down this road in cinema, I think I need to have a sense of life experience and memory and a sense of that which is personal. Where I feel I can portray the character and the narrative, the story authentically. um and it's the kind of thing where i want to feel less and less that i that i have to act of course it's acting but but i want to be able to get to a place where i i feel it's coming from truth that i know how to play or this person i know how to tell this story i think that is the main requirement.

1:52:22And then after that, it goes into many different directions. One direction is, oh, this movie is a movie that I'm going to be maybe working on it for two days. And it's probably ultimately not going to be a great movie, but maybe I can play with performance and experiment and try something fun and maybe realize a kind of oddball fantasy that you can create with film performance. So I look at movies like Never on Tuesday or Deadfall or movies where I'm just going really whacked out and trying to find a sound. It's not always a good sound, but it's a sound that I'm going for. I do that as well. And then most importantly, along with the script and the story itself, is do I have a relationship with the filmmaker that I think they can find something unique or bring out something new.

1:53:29I mean, the most important thing I feel after doing it for over 45 years, and I started when I was 15, is how do you stay interested? You don't want to ever lose interest because if you lose interest, then I feel like film enthusiasts, people that I make movies for will lose interest. So I want to keep that spark alive. You have this incredible knack for desperate and disoriented characters. And I was wondering if you go looking for those characters or you feel like people are coming to you because you have an ability to capture that feeling. Well, that's a great question. And I think the way to answer it is I want to tell stories that I think I might want to write.

1:54:16And with The Surfer, I read the script and I immediately thought, well, this is the kind of story I aspire to write. I like narratives that are enigmatic, that kind of go in nonlinear directions. It's no secret that I like surrealist presentations. I like dream logic. I like that which is almost psychedelic, which this movie certainly has those feelings. And I think it goes both ways. I think people have come to know that that's an interest of mine. And I also think it's something that I've been blessed to find and have an interest in and to look for because it genuinely fascinates me. The surfer fits really nicely into this lineage of Ozploitation.

1:55:09Did you and Lorcan talk about Wake and Fright or Patrick or these movies from the 70s and 80s in Australia that are crazy in this vein? Yeah, well, they both, Martin the writer and Morgan brought it up to me. Now, I had never seen Wake and Fright. I was totally new to me. And I checked it out and I saw what they were looking for. But I do think they're somewhat different experiences. I was mostly affected by the movies of Peter Weir and The Last Wave or Picnic at Hanging Rock. And Nick Rogue, Walkabout, these are movies that had a huge impact on me because I saw them as a child. That was in the 70s and I was, what, 10, 11, 12.

1:56:06And my dad would take me to see these movies in the cinema. And they really wowed me and kind of, especially Walkabout, kind of broke my heart. You know, that movie really tore my heart out. Because anytime you have a love story and it's unrequited, it's tragic. It just always pulls my heartstrings. That movie did. So I do have regard and reverence for Australian cinema. I don't know about the word Ozploitation I see it this is a part of the world that has generated some of the best movies and certainly with great style and to that I applaud I know the John Cheever story The Swimmer and the film with Lancaster was also a reference point for you guys that movie is so interesting and you know where Lancaster was at that time in his career is not so different maybe from where you are in your career.

1:57:07Did you look at that movie before this? What did it mean to you? Yeah, I think of all the references, that was probably the strongest one for me. And not only the movie and Lancaster's performance. And there are moments in this movie where I'm talking about, I'm going to buy that house right there on that bluff. And I'm even hearing Lancaster's voice in my mind as I'm saying it. And Lorcan and I We're very specific about that in that one moment by the car. But also the short story. Cheever, to me, is one of America's great writers. And I think that the short story is arguably more powerful than the movie.

1:57:50The movie is very similar, I think, more so than Wake and Fright in terms of the character's trajectory, in terms of what he's trying to achieve, that he's trying to get back some semblance of his former life. And of course, the swimmer ends tragically with him pounding on the door in the rain and no one's opening the door and all the furniture is gone. I mean, this is really, for me, it's a story of a man who's trying to reclaim both a memory of his childhood and get back, like that Beatles song, get back to where he once belonged. And he doesn't belong. From an acting perspective, I've always wondered when you are making a really bold choice as a performer, and you talked about when you choose a part, is there something new you can try to pursue?

1:58:46Are you telling the filmmaker or the scene partners beforehand, hey, I want to try something, or I'm going to go big here? Or are you surprising them in that space? No, I try to be a collaborator and go through the notes with them as much as possible, whether it be with rehearsal. You know, when Julian came on, we had that massive scene in the car park where he's eating the hamburger. That was his first day. And that was like a six-page scene. And we both ran it and ran it and ran it and got in step with what each of us wanted to bring with Lorcan. And I try to let them know, like, if I'm going to surprise you and myself, this is where I'm going to do it.

1:59:33So it's like music. We've got eight bars here. And in these eight bars, I'm just going to let it rip. And we may use it or we may not use it, but let's shoot it. And so, like, that was that whole riffing scene with the – He had a camera mounted on my shoulders with a fish-eye lens, and I'm saying things like, oh, we're going to have Clams Casino and Spaghetti Prutanesca, and all that was just coming out. The only time that I think I maybe surprised him a little bit, and Lorcan, that is, is I got attached to the prop rack, and I used it was such a good prop and it was a good looking prop it looked real um and I thought I could I could save this and put it somewhere plus I like the idea of the of the rat's tail hanging out of the surfer's pocket wiggling around as I'm walking around so I thought that was funny but also I was thinking about Billy Wilder and and his movie Sabrina where Bogart says eat it and he puts an olive and I think in his actors playing his uncle's mouth and I couldn't stop laughing when I watched that so I explained that to Lorcan I said I know this sounds crazy I know it sounds wild but this is like the punk rock version of Billy Wilder's movie Sabrina where he says eat it with chocolate and so I knew I was going to go in that direction I just didn't know where or when and it turned out it worked well with the pit bull character in the ocean.

2:01:14I wanted to ask you about Persona, on-screen Persona. The last five or so years of parts feel like they've been in conversation with other parts of your career, like Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent, obviously, taking on Dracula after Vampire's Kiss, Spider-Man, Noir, and even this film feels like there's some wild at heart in it. There's some past in the present. How much of a self-awareness, a consciousness are you having in terms of creating a lineage and a connectivity between the characters or even what you're doing on screen when you're taking parts at this point? I would say that it's not entirely present on my mind as these things are unfolding.

2:01:58I think it's just a natural evolution of things by way of kind of osmosis that, particularly with a younger filmmaker who may have grown up watching some of my movies, they get an idea of what they can do with me as their instrument, let's say. They have memories of earlier movies and they find more often than not, I feel, excellent ways of deploying that. And so that harkens back to one of your earlier questions. I think that's also what's happening when they bring me these scripts or different materials. I don't feel that as much with older filmmakers. I think this is symptomatic of the fact that I've actively sought out younger filmmakers because I knew I was going to get a pulse from them.

2:02:51I knew I was going to get a heartbeat, whereas the older guys, not all of them, but many of them have kind of already made up their minds about me. Or I've been there, done that, seen that. But these younger filmmakers, I think they want to find a way of reintroducing what they may have seen in a wild art or an adaptation like with Christopher Borgley. He saw that movie and he thought that style of film performance would work so well with Dream Scenario. And I think Lorcan, he's a filmmaker, in my view, what makes him singular. is one, he's not afraid of a nonlinear narrative and an enigmatic and dreamlike narrative.

2:03:37that's big but two his sense of humor this is a guy who has a really fast sense of humor like when i did the scene with the telephone and the and the cord is dangling i need my telephone prop and i'm like where's the where's it i need the i need the telephone i took and lorkan would go fine and go it's for you i couldn't stop laughing because the speed of his humor and And that's in his movies as well. So he's got this special mix of surrealism and comedy that I find so delicious. And he's one of those guys. Like Christopher Borgley is one of those guys. And I think those two mostly. Another director in the older guard would be Werner Herzog.

2:04:25And he certainly has that as well. You know, he's not afraid to have a nonlinear narrative and also find the humor in dark situations. I'm glad you brought up Dream Scenario. I was at that screening at the Arrow where they showed the film and you were hailed as a god at the end of that screening. I mean, that was a fascinating moment. You were wearing the leather jacket and everybody loved the movie. It was really a lot of fun. But it did have me thinking about your career in context. So to hear you talk about Chris and Lorcan, and I know you said you saw Vivarium and you dug that. Are you scouting young filmmakers?

2:05:01Are people putting names in front of you? How does that work at this stage? Well, what happens is I get a script and I respond to the script and I say, can I look at the filmmakers' work? And Vivarium was a movie I actually went and saw in the cinema. But I review and then I get an idea of what is possible with the filmmaker's vision. And then I match it to the script and I reread the script, visualizing what I think this filmmaker can do. And then also I think about where I could go with the character and fit into this filmmaker's vision. And no more evident was that process than with Face Off, because John and I, John Woo and I, he wasn't someone who, at the time anyway, was speaking a lot of English.

2:05:57And I didn't really fully understand. I knew his classics like Hard Boiled and The Killer, but he wanted me to see specifically Bullet in the Head. and I watched that movie and I knew when I saw that movie the opera and the magnitude of where the actors could go. I knew where he would allow me to go in terms of the scope of the performance and the music of the performance. So that was a very helpful experience. Do you think being a movie fanatic makes you a better actor? Yes. Is there any part of it that is bad? Like, can you see something and know you can't get to where another performer is going or make yourself self-conscious?

2:06:45I mean, the only time that ever really crossed my mind is when I'm looking at someone who is astounding at doing absolutely zero, nothing. I'm like, why can't I? Okay, you have Bruce Lee over here in Enter the Dragon and he's moving everywhere and that's compelling and fantastic to watch. but what's equally compelling is Charles Bronson in Once Upon a Time in the West when the camera is in on his face he's about to have the shootout with Henry Fonda and I don't know why I can't I'm riveted equally to that and he's not doing anything and I'm like what what is that how is he doing that is it the shape of his face is it is it the fact that he's a purple heart he don't give a shit that Henry Fonda is starring who played Abraham Lincoln in the movie next to him because he's a purple heart and it's in his eyes.

2:07:40It's like, well, you can't act that. You just are that. And I'm not going to be that. You can try. You can try, but it will never quite get there any more than I'm going to be able to do a back flip and in the scene with Enter the Dragon. Those are extreme examples. But in between, I can do a lot of try and bring a lot of my own stuff. And to answer your question, I think that it's all good to be a film enthusiast is the best teacher next to life, adjacent to life experiences, watching movies and studying. I didn't have a lot of training. I mean, I just I went to a summer stock at ACT in San Francisco when I did maybe six months at Bloff Studios in Hollywood, I learned by practicing on camera and all that that means and by watching movies.

2:08:39I've been meaning to ask you, since you've had this huge revival, especially in the last 10 years, is there a film of yours at any point in your career that you feel like maybe hasn't gotten that kind of love or appreciation or revival that people should take a look at? I think that Matchstick Men, Ridley Scott, Alison Lohman, Sam Rothwell, I think that movie was great. I think that was a, I mean, I had a choice. I could either be in Mystic River and play Robin's part and Clint was directing and that was a great project. Or I could work with Ridley on Matchstick Men. And at the time, that was the choice that I wanted to make because I really cared about that character.

2:09:24And I cared about his afflictions. I had a personal relationship with it. And that was the story I wanted to tell. And I think that Ridley, I mean, that movie to me is one of his best movies. And I would like to have that movie maybe be reviewed a little more often than not. That's one of my favorites. I love that pick. Nicholas we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what's the last great thing they have seen since you are such a film watcher have you seen anything that you've loved lately the last great great movie I have seen and I'm sure there's something that would come to mind could be old or new as I said I like to try to approach things from a personal place as much as possible And I saw a great Japanese filmmaker's movie, Father Like Son, Koreyeda.

2:10:24And the actors in it, Lily Frankie and Masuhara Fukuyama, who's actually a singer, but he's a hell of an actor. Machiko Ono and Yoko Maki. Man, that movie is some of the best acting I've ever seen about a very painful, heartfelt situation where children are swapped at a hospital and then the biological parents want their child back and the other ones want their child. And it's just, it just tears your heart out. And to me, that's, that's as good as it gets. If you can move people to that level with a movie, with, with, with, with the experience of watching a movie where it just tears your heart out.

2:11:14That's the, that's why I got into cinema because of James Dean needs to be, well, he did it. Corrietta did it with like father, like son. And I think I will never stop singing the praises of the effect that that film had on me. it's a fabulous recommendation Nicolas Cage thank you for what you do you're the best thanks so much be well

2:11:39thank you to Nicolas Cage Amanda thanks how do you feel about this exercise that we've done today on the pod I feel good about it we did it again yeah we did it again we smashed it eight straight years of award winning podcasts thank you for all the awards and I'm really excited for our room because you know this brings fame and fortune to everyone that we bestow this honor upon. They're so lucky. You know? They are so lucky. We'll be seeing everyone at the 35 over 35 gala later this week. It's really exciting. Thanks to Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. Later this week, Amanda indicated it.

2:12:12We are finally, finally, finally building the Paul Newman Hall of Fame. We've been working, honestly, tirelessly to plow through his filmography. I'm just not going to get through every single film, but I'm going to get pretty close. I'm doing my best. I'm going to get pretty darn close to seeing every movie he's ever made. There are quite a few. we will see you then