The 2026 Summer Movie Preview "Boom or Bust" Game

20:14Sean Fennessey:Right. Yeah. Which I don't think are bad per se. I've stopped watching them. I would just like to see the film. Okay. Understood. So that's our first film. We only have 78 more to go. We probably won't spend that much time on all the other movies that we talk about here. The next film on our list is called Hocum. It is a new horror movie directed by Damian McCarthy. Neon is releasing it. It stars Adam Scott. It's about a man, I think, who gets trapped in a scary Irish hotel. Okay. Which is kind of what it was like for you preparing for this episode. Yes. You go first. My box office guess was$18 million.

20:51Sean Fennessey:Okay. My Metacritic guess is$78. Wow. Now, Damian McCarthy has released two films that are available on Shudder that are very acclaimed. However, since I wrote down$78, I saw a couple Letterboxd reviews that were not very kind to this movie. Okay. I haven't seen it yet. All right. A bunch of these movies we'll talk about I have seen. This is one I just haven't gotten out to a screening yet. I was just banking on my previous experience with the Damian McCarthy oeuvre to determine this number. So what do you got? I bounced around on this box office, which is just anywhere from, I think, the$8 to$14 million range.

21:23And I landed at$10.

21:24Sean Fennessey:Okay. Seems reasonable. So$10 million. And I have a Metacritic of$62. Okay. There's a thing with the horror movies this summer. Yeah. where every two weeks one of the studios is putting out a horror movie so they've kind of like caught on right to the wave that has been going on in the last eight to 12 years so you know we've got lee cronin's the mummy coming out this friday we just had faces of death last weekend on may 1st we've got hokum on may 15th we've got obsession which we will get to on may 29th, we've got Backrooms. Yes. And most of these movies are coming from relatively new filmmakers, and they're trying to, you know, who's the next Filippo Brothers?

22:07Sean Fennessey:Who's the next Zach Kregger? Who's the next Jordan Peele? There's this attempt to filter these people up. I don't know if Damien McCarthy's going to get there, but I'm looking forward to the film. Okay, the next film on our list is called The Sheep Detectives. Yeah. Which is a new film from Amazon MGM about some detectives who are sheep. That's right. That is quite literally what the film is. Yes. It also stars Hugh Jackman and my beloved Emma Thompson. Yes. And a myriad of young stars. So this is, it's a cozy mystery. Yes. And it's an adaptation of a cozy mystery book. The comps for this have all been direct to streaming.

22:44So like literally every single one of them. So there's no real number. And that also did inflect my guess, which is an 8 million box office. Total. Total. No, who's going to go see this respectfully?

22:58Sean Fennessey:I think this movie is going to do okay. You do? Yeah, because I think old people are going to be into this. I know, but even if you look at all of the recent old people movies, they're not... What's your guess? $51 million. That's absolutely insane. I don't know. It's like... Song Song Blue. It's talking animals and a mystery. Only did$39 million. No, I know. Song Song Blue is a hard-to-watch melodrama. But that is sold as Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson singing Neil Diamond songs at you in sparkly outfits. I don't know. It's a talking animal movie. I would guess that we probably land somewhere between us.

23:35Sean Fennessey:I would guess given this conversation, maybe we land at 27 million. Maybe. I mean, look at all the people in this movie. Hugh Jackman. I know. Nicholas Gelson. Emma Thompson. Molly Gordon. Bryan Cranston. Nicholas Braun. Brett Goldstein. Regina Hall. Hong Chow. Those are all voice performers. I'm a fan of all of those people. Okay. But, and I am also familiar with the cozy mystery genre. And like, it just needs, why is this not being released on Amazon? Well, because they're making a push towards theatrical. And they're trying to make money on these sheep. And I understand that Project Hail Mary worked, and I don't know if this one is going to.

24:13Sean Fennessey:Sheep, you like them? Indifferent. Okay. Metacritic score, what did you guess? 63. I also guessed 63. There we go. How wonderful. Okay. The next film, I have no idea what to do with this movie. It is Billie Eilish, colon, hit me hard and soft, dash, the tour live. Not the tour comma live, the tour live. Is the name of it the tour live? I have some questions about the grammatical choices in this film's title. Yeah, we need a copy corner with Craig Gaines. This film is directed by Billie Eilish and James Cameron. Yeah. James Cameron, who has never made a film that has made less than$50 million. I think.

24:49Sean Fennessey:Right. I think. I mean I was gonna say I don't know what was going on there with the 80s 90s early releases okay I it's your turn I guessed 42 million oh I went really big you did I went 160 million I you could be right I don't know I mean I went Eris tour and then revised down but like people the children they love Billie Eilish do they know this is happening though I have I have seen a lot of trailers for this on YouTube while getting my nails done. I guess the movie is 3D, right? Yeah. But it doesn't have IMAX screens, does it? Because it's coming out the same day as Mortal Kombat 2, which we'll get to in a moment too.

25:30Sean Fennessey:I don't know. What do you think Big Jim's up to in terms of... 160 million. Well, the Heiress tour made 180 million. People really... But Billie Eilish is no Taylor Swift when it comes to... But still, she has more Oscars. You believe in Big Jim. You really do. I believe in... I have, if I have learned one thing, it is do not underestimate Big Jim. And if I have learned another thing, it is that Jack and Lucas' generation will give Billie Eilish her flowers at the expense of Dua Lipa whenever they need to. Two people I know who love Billie Eilish are my wife, who is not in Jack or Lucas' generation, and my daughter, who is not in Jack and Lucas' generation.

26:11Sean Fennessey:See? There you go. You're surrounded. There's no chance that Eileen brings Alice to see this movie. No chance. You don't know. she doesn't know it exists will you be in can not yet oh okay i was gonna say there's gonna be time to fill maybe i'll take them there you go family outing and i'll contribute to that 160 okay i don't i don't see that happening but you know what we're doing this because maybe it lands somewhere in the middle maybe it goes maybe it exceeds 160 that seems very hard for me to believe because of the number of films that are coming out in this month but we'll see uh my metacritic guess is 71.

26:43Mine is 65.

26:45Sean Fennessey:Okay. You know, James Cameron, a lot of the reviews of this will be. Polite? Yeah. And it will be like a little bit more fandom oriented. Like the critics who raised their hand to take this one on are probably not doing it because they hate Billie Eilish. Yeah. So we'll see what happens there. Okay. Mortal Kombat 2. Did you see the first Mortal Kombat? No, I didn't. I think you were on leave for that film. No, it's 2021, right? Yes. So, no. You just skipped it. I just skipped it. It was pandemic. I was pregnant for a lot of 2021. I was also pregnant with the future of Mortal Kombat. Sure. Yeah, respectfully, this is not...

27:25I did occasionally play a Mortal Kombat arcade game at the beach where we went to, the snack bar. Who was your character of choice? Well, I didn't know their names.

27:37Sean Fennessey:You have Scorpion energy. Okay, thank you. Do you know about Scorpion? No. Um, he has the yellow fighting costume. He wears a mask. Um, he throws like a, some sort of demonic hook tail at people. Okay. Like a scorpion's tail? Like a scorpion's tail. Yeah. And, uh, he says, get over here! And he pulls you towards them and then he does something very violent. You know about how you conclude a battle in Mortal Kombat? Mm. With a fatality. Yes. You can kill them. Yeah. Slice off their head, explode them, any number of brutal mutilations. Mm-hmm. Who are you in Mortal Kombat? Good question. Did you ever dress up as a Mortal Kombat character?

28:16Raiden, perhaps?

28:17Sean Fennessey:The mysterious figure who is able to channel the power of lightning? Okay. I think I'm getting that right. Is that accurate? Thank you. Yeah, Lucas gave me a huge thumbs up there. All right, yeah. The movie, this Mortal Kombat 2 movie, which was supposed to come out last year and is now coming out in the May window, is projected to make a lot of money. Carl Urban is the star. He plays the Johnny Cage character. Okay. What's your guess? I just wrote down a number. 60 million? I don't know. Okay. I wrote down 137 million. So you think that Billie Eilish is going to dominate Mortal Kombat 2? Yes, I do.

28:55Okay.

28:55Sean Fennessey:I don't think that's the case, but I could be wrong. What's your Metacritic guess? 46. 44, I guess. Okay. I don't think this is going to be a critical darling. I do think it might gratify the people who were disappointed by the first Mortal Kombat movie which was like the origin story of the Mortal Kombat tournament instead of being just a series of guys saying get over here yeah which I enjoyed yes thank you Jack um okay May 15th yeah we have a handful of movies the first one is Is God Is now this is also a new film from Amazon MGM it's directed by Alicia Harris It stars Vivica A. Fox, Janelle Monae, Erika Alexander, Sterling K.

29:39Sean Fennessey:Brown. It's about two sisters who go on a quest for revenge against their father. What'd you guess? I think it's your turn. It's my turn. I guessed 12 million box office, 74 million Metacritic. Oh, wow. 74, not million. Yes, 74 million positive reviews. I guessed 11 million box office. Okay, well, close. And then 57, Metacritic. They showed us a teaser of this last year. Do you remember it? Yeah, I do. It seemed like a very kind of like outsized, exploitation-y, like Kill Bill style movie about two sisters who will stop at nothing to destroy their enemy. It's definitely my flavor of movie. Haven't seen the movie yet, so it's a little hard to say.

30:21Sean Fennessey:But it does seem like a challenging movie to drop right in the middle of May. Yes. Obsession, May 15th. I've just seen this movie. Right. I really enjoyed it. Good. it's your turn to guess. I wrote down 15 million. I wrote down 42. Okay. That's great. You think this is the one that's going to happen. It has a chance to break out. Okay. It's directed by a guy named Curry Barker. It played at TIFF last year. It's about a young man. I don't know what age he is. Somewhere between 18 and 24, who is in love, infatuated with a close friend of his. and he wishes upon a special item for her to be obsessed with him.

31:05Okay.

31:05Sean Fennessey:And his wish comes true. And that wish has tremendous consequences. Real classic monkey paw kind of a movie. Thought it was very effective. Metacritic score 69. 66 is what I have. Pretty close. Yeah. Kind of curious what you think about this movie. I think you might find it a little bit frustrating. Yeah. I had a grand old time with it. That's great. I know that there is going to be one horror movie that is your long legs or your weapons. And I was trying to... But I don't know if I picked which of them will be. It does really feel like everyone's throwing spaghetti at the wall. And one of them will be the breakout.

31:50Yes.

31:50Sean Fennessey:There's a lot of them this year. I couldn't suss it out. Okay. Let's suss out In the Gray. This is the 387th film from Guy Ritchie, all made in the last two years. Stacked cast, Henry Cavill, Ayusa Gonzalez, Jake Gyllenhaal, Rossman Pike. It's about a covert team of elite operatives getting up to some stuff. Yeah, like the other 12 movies. Yes, something he's interested in thematically. Sort of like Scorsese with gangsters or Celine Sciamma with the female identity in the modern times. but just for operatives hanging out doing stuff that's what Guy Ritchie does I am also interested in that premise it is the execution that sometimes comes short this movie doesn't feel real to me no what did you write down for box office 37 million I wrote down 18 it's possible but I think it's because I looked at the last three to four Guy Ritchies and one of them did break 30 and the rest were between 15 and 20 okay there was like the League of Ungentlemanly Warfare.

32:54Yes, I fell asleep during that.

32:56Sean Fennessey:That was one. I think I actually was pregnant and I laid down. It was before they redid the Regal Cinema closest to us and I just was on several seats. That's very rude to Guy Ritchie. Well, the movie was rude to me. Okay, fair enough. Amanda, I'm very curious because last year, we're kind of having the inverse of last year where last year you were consistently saying bigger box office numbers than Sean and this year it seems the exact opposite. it. I'm curious if there's anything. Except in the case of Billie Eilish. That is true. I was just curious if there's anything that informed that thinking if you were looking back at last year's doc, if there's something you think that's different about this year's slate.

33:31No, I was looking back at last year's box office and I mean, I and 2024 and I pretty much went by distributor and then type of movie and looked at all the comps and went in there and and often with the smaller movies was a bit generous. So I, you know, like for every that's the way the box office is now right like for every 500 million dollar though I don't even think we got a 500 million dollar last year

34:01Sean Fennessey:maybe one yeah in the summer there are a lot of movies that I mean Eddington made 10 million dollars last year you know yes and yet it grows every day listen and a lot of the movies that we loved are under 15 yeah you're right that we did not get a 500 million dollar movie yeah Lilo and Stitch made $423 million. So, I think, especially with all of the small movies where, like, the non-event, I was sort of unimaginative. I really am in the $15 to$20 million range for a lot of them. I think that's wise. I probably went a little bit over on too many things, including this one. I went$37. Okay. Just because it's like Jake Gyllenhaal and Henry Cavill blowing stuff up.

34:43Sean Fennessey:Yeah. To me, there's like a, there's a bar there, but I could be wrong. I think one of them did maybe the League of Gentlemen was in the 30s, but I think the Covenant was... Low. 18. Yeah, that was low. CR and I saw that together holding hands, thinking about the future of our country. I mean, I think that's beautiful. What's your Metacritic guess here? 37. I said 52. Okay. We'll see. I Love Boosters, Boots Riley's new film, his first feature since Sorry to Bother You, which was, I think, eight or nine years ago. This one comes out May 22nd. it stars our beloved Kiki Palmer I guessed 18 million 19 million interesting I guessed 81 Metacritic score oh good that's high it had good reviews out of South by I'm excited to see it I'm guessing 64 okay just because it's about the fashion world sort of right yes sort of yes and I just and it seems in the same way that you think that critics are going to be resistant to the Devil Wears Prada 2.

35:49You know, people don't take that seriously. That's a good point.

35:53Sean Fennessey:What was Sorry to Bother You's Metacritic score? I'll look it up right now. Can you look that up quickly? I'm quite curious. All right. The next film is a movie called Passenger, which was recently dated into this spot. Andre Ovidal, who is a Norwegian director who's made some horror movies in recent years, including The Last Voyage of the Demeter and Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark. here's the premise of this new movie which stars a bunch of people I've not heard of and Melissa Leo a few weeks into their van life adventure a young couple witnesses a horrific accident that leaves the driver dead soon they're being pursued by a demonic stalker who's impossible to outrun and follows them wherever they go um this movie kind of popped up out of nowhere I haven't seen a trailer it's coming out in a month what's your guess 9 million?

36:44Sean Fennessey:I would have said 12. Okay. Metacritic? 52? 34. Okay. Now, Avridal got really good reviews for Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark, or pretty good reviews, I should say. Much less so for Voyage of the Demeter. Do you remember what that was? No, but I read about it last night and have since forgotten. It was the first chapter of Bram Stoker's Dracula. Oh, right. Yeah. Anyway. Okay. The next film is a big one. Yeah. It's Star Wars, colon, The Mandalorian and Grogu. Yeah. It comes out on May 22nd, Memorial Day weekend. Mm-hmm. And I mean, the streets are in tears. I can't believe this is happening.

37:24Sean Fennessey:I can't believe this film is coming to us. I've been waiting seven long years for a new Star Wars film, they're saying. Right. And through those tears. Yeah. They're feeling redeemed. They're feeling seen. They're feeling understood. Mm-hmm. They're feeling a sense of deliverance. Mm-hmm. Because they love Star Wars. And they love Star Wars in the cinema. Yeah. And I predict$275 million for this movie domestically. Wow. That's so low. Yes. Because you think that all of your cohort will be mad? I don't think they'll be mad. All the Chris Ryan's of the world? Here's the thing. Everyone's like, oh, Chris Ryan's not going to see Mandalorian Grogu.

38:05Yes, he is. With my child. So there are a lot of people who are going to try to...

38:12Sean Fennessey:You make that sound like a threat. Well, you know, I haven't bought the tickets yet, but I probably need to lock those down. I know that there's resistance. I know that among the, you know, the community... What community? Of people who are older than five who are really, really into Star Wars. Have you ever wished anyone May the 4th be with you? No. On May 4th? I have not.

38:39and in this moment when you were saying that i was like is today may 4th no i'm making some plans for the week of may 4th with my family that's nice that's beautiful i listen star wars is big in our house both children can now say grogu or grogo um sweet so i i just went with lilo and stitch numbers so i'm going 420 421 is actually what i wrote down because i found myself not wanting any more round numbers?

39:06Sean Fennessey:My only concern here, my primary concern here, is that this is committing a sin that Marvel has struggled with, which is that they have made something that is connected to a TV show. And that not everybody is up on the TV show. And that that sometimes limits the audience for who decides to go out to see a movie like this. Now, it is the first Star Wars movie in forever. I may be making a huge mistake and it may be a$700 million movie domestically, but I'm not so sure. I have my doubts. What's your Metacritic score for this movie? 48. I have 52. Okay. Jon Favreau directed this. He's directed many movies people like.

39:42People like Sigourney Weaver. They like Grogu.

39:45Sean Fennessey:I don't think Sigourney Weaver is going to be in a lot of the movie. Okay. You know, don't tell Max that. She should play her Navi character. Kiri? Is that her name? In this film. That would be interesting. Could we cross over? Griffin and David explaining Sigourney Weaver's character journey in the Avatar films. on Blank Check was very special to me. Yeah. Well, it's like the ninth time they've done it, though, so it's not as though it was novel. Okay. Your Metacritic score was 48? Yeah. So you think this is going to work? I think box office-wise, financially, yes. I mean, listen, I have a skewed perspective, which is like two tiny men in my house yelling, Grogu, Grogu, Grogu, Grogu, but I'm not, you know, it's Star Wars.

40:30What does Zach think? we haven't talked about it really yeah but I wouldn't say that we talk a lot about Star Wars in our adult life oh that's something

40:40Sean Fennessey:that my relationship has that yours doesn't um okay May 29th Pressure this is the new World War II film yeah this is about the meteorologist who determined the correct day to launch D-Day yeah that's the premise are they releasing it on D-Day uh or like a week before around that time yeah Yeah. They're getting, they're, you know, doing the soft release and then windowing. Maybe early access screening for influencers. Yeah. How many World War II influencers do you think there are? That's kind of a lane for me I could lean into in the second half of my life. Just a guy who knows a lot about that stuff.

41:17Sean Fennessey:Yeah. But maybe like only in a very narrow way. Like I only know about how Belgium worked during World War II. Do you know a lot about Belgium? I don't. Generally? But I could learn. Do you speak Flemish? I don't. No, no. Not even a lick. That would be incredible. If I just busted out. If you knew all like Lenin's full Russian name and spoke Flemish, you know? Nope. I don't know any Flemish, unfortunately. What's your prediction on pressure? I looked up the box office for Nuremberg. I did the same. Which was$14 million. So that is what I'm predicting. I wrote$27 million just because it's a summer release.

41:47Sean Fennessey:Okay. And you think all the old people are just like, well, it stays light later so I can drive to the theater. Honestly, yes. is Brendan Fraser a bigger draw than Russell Crowe right now probably not but maybe also what's more appealing D-Day or the Nuremberg trials as an idea I would say the Great Attack more so than the Aftermath trial sure but meteorology movie or courtroom drama but see that's 1989 talking okay I'm talking about meteorology is big now yeah You've been to weather.com. You looked at those apps. No, I've moved on to Weather Underground because AI hasn't ruined it because it uses your local weather station.

42:34Sean Fennessey:Meaning you're part of the revolutionary force that is looking to upend American power structures? Well, I think, no, I wish. What is Weather Underground? It's an app. Am I saying it right? They named an app after the Weather Underground? That can't be right. Well, I guess it's Wonderground, which I couldn't really say outside. So I was, you know, ascribing to I can't say out loud. So I was ascribing to them politics or leadership that perhaps they don't have. Yeah. Wonderground. Wonderground. Yes. Not underground. Wonder. Did you say Wonderground? No, I said Weather Underground because saying Wonderground out loud is really stupid.

43:12What is happening? Because Weather Underground, you know, has has my respect.

43:16Sean Fennessey:It's like, have you seen my new social media app, Military Junta? OK. Anyway, Wonderground uses local stations because AI has ruined the traditional weather apps, as you know. Metacritic score for pressure. 61? That's exactly what I guessed. There we go. It's very funny. The Breadwinner. Yeah. This is the debut lead feature film from the highly successful comedian Nate Bargatze. Yeah. A comedian whose work I've enjoyed over the years. The movie comes out May 29th. What's your box office prediction? 35 million. I wrote down 52, which feels like a reach. Yeah. Because the film to me does not look good.

43:57Sean Fennessey:However, Nate Bargazzi is straight up selling out stadiums. Exactly. I mean, he is huge. But there is not, I even looked for recent comps of comedians making that, which has not happened in the last few years. It does not happen that often. It used to be one of the surefire things we can expect with the movies. You know, and I was like, I looked up the last movie that John Mulaney was in was like the Chip and Dale movie. Rescue Rangers. Yeah, Rescue Rangers, which he voiced, which did not make$35 million. So I just wrote a number down. I feel like he's making a bid for like the Kevin James corner.

44:34Sean Fennessey:Yeah. And Kevin James was in an Angel Studios movie this year, I think called Solo Mio, which I think made like$27 million. It did pretty good business. So like there is definitely an audience for this kind of thing. This is a family comedy about a man whose wife, I think, wins something on Shark Tank. And so she has to leave for like a month. And he has to take care of, I think, three daughters and their home. While their home is under construction. Things go terribly awry. My Metacritic score is 27. Wow. Mine is, well, this seems too high now. 48 is what I'll say. May 29th Tuner new thriller from Daniel Rohr the film stars Leo Woodall and Dustin Hoffman it's a movie about a piano tuner who becomes entrenched in a world of crime box office I'm going 9 million oh I went bigger on this one okay I don't I guess the Leo Woodall of it all and there's some other people I feel like I've been hearing about this Havana Rose Lou was in it yeah I went 28 million I hope that happens having seen the movie I think it's hard it's an indie studio it's Black Bear is putting it out it's gonna be a little more challenging to get in front of people they've had some troubles yes but it's a really good movie so I hope people check it out I picked this as the one that would go relatively viral as far as these movies I hope so Metacritic score I guess 74 that's exactly what I have wow we've matched on a lot of these I think three Metacritic scores so far okay May 29th Back Rooms yeah I did finally see this trailer what'd you think about it Well, again, it's one that I saw as a YouTube ad at the nail salon.

46:10And it on YouTube with those specs really just looked like a YouTube movie. Okay.

46:21Sean Fennessey:So I have not watched the YouTube video that this is based on that Cain Parsons made when he was a teenager. I think I'm going to watch it beforehand. It's very popular. It went viral. and you know it does look similar to the way that the film looks but the film is obviously shot with different cameras and it has movie stars in it like Renata Reinsfa and Chuitel Ejiofor so I'm really looking forward to this there's just something in my gut that tells me that this is the one in terms of the horror movie okay yeah because I think that there's a very young audience that is very tapped into this it's also an A24 film I think it's been marketed very well thus far What's your guess on the box office for this?

46:57So I did 16 million.

47:00Sean Fennessey:Okay, I guessed 67 million. That is like, that would be A24's what? Third biggest movie ever? Probably fourth or fifth. Okay. I mean, if you think that's where it's going to go. I got a feeling. Okay. I just got a gut feeling about it. I could be wrong. I think it's kind of a weird time too, because how is that audience being served? You know, you've got the Star Wars movie, which is kind of playing a little younger. And so you've got this two-week, three-week period after Mortal Kombat 2 where that just seems like a big fit for them. And then after that, we'll get right into what are going to be the June 5th movies.

47:36Sean Fennessey:And I think they're all a little soft. I do too. 67 million domestic would be A24's fourth biggest film behind Civil War at 68 and right above Uncut Gems at 50. Wow. All right. Just a guess. My Metacritic guess is 82. Minus 61. So you're not a believer in this movie. Good to know. I mean, what is interesting about it is that I only saw it like in its natural habitat, which is a YouTube ad. And I was like, I don't know. But maybe it'll be great on film. I got no skin in the game. Haven't seen it. Okay. Just want something to be like this to be good. June 5th, Masters of the Universe. Yeah. How you doing?

48:18How you feeling? I've got some concerns. Yeah.

48:22Sean Fennessey:I've got some real concerns. You know? I, Travis Knights made a lot of good movies. He made the Bumblebee film you recently referenced. He made many stop motion animation films for his studio, Laika. I think he's super talented. The son of Phil Knight, the Nike founder. Yes. I guessed$88 million for the box office. I guessed$90 million. We're very close. Now this I think would be considered a disappointment. Based on what I know about the budget and your reactions in the room at last year's CinemaCon. Yeah. Yes. I have been told that the trailer is not properly communicating the tone of the film, which is a little bit more of a comedy.

49:01Sean Fennessey:Okay. And that they're given real like, this man must pick up this sword to rule the land, which is of course in the text of He-Man. But even the He-Man cartoon, which I adored as a five-year-old, had a real camp quality to it. And if they don't hit the camp on this, I'm going to be worried. Also, Jared Leto not doing the Skeletor voice. I don't know if you're familiar with the Skeletor voice, but he plays the villain in this movie. There's a very specific Skeletor voice. Do it now. I really couldn't if I tried. It's in a register I can't reach. Is high or low? High. Oh, so it's sort of like the...

49:33Sean Fennessey:He's like a maniacal, annoying... Like the Skinnamarink, like, hello, child. Not quite, but you're not that far off. Okay, what's your Metacritic guess on this? My Metacritic guess is 49. I get it.

49:50Don't even know what Skeletor is. you haven't seen skinnering no will you see masters of the universe um if if you invite me okay uh but you won't because you're like i have to have a safe space for this to talk about my feelings that is what i said do you think nox would like it i do okay you guys can go okay

50:11Sean Fennessey:actually that would be fun um unless it's terrible and then i nox has to see me sob in a theater as my childhood is destroyed. My Metacritic guess is 55. Okay. Next film, June 5th, Power Ballad. Yeah. This movie debuted at South by Southwest. I just saw it this weekend. Okay. It was okay. I don't want to spoil my review. Yeah. New film from John Carney, of course, a musical. It's got a cool premise. Premise is there is a never-quite-made-it singer-songwriter played by Paul Rudd who has moved to Ireland. He has a family there. He's playing an American man, and he performs in a wedding cover band in Ireland and does weddings.

50:46Sean Fennessey:and one night randomly at a wedding a huge pop star is a former boy band member who's played in the film by Nick Jonas shows up to perform with the band they strike up a connection and the Paul Rudd character shares a song that he's written with the pop star and months go by and then all of a sudden that song that he shared with him he hears on the radio and it's being performed by the boy band kid who's having a huge comeback with this song and then the film is about the guy's quest to get credit, get acknowledgement for something that he couldn't get throughout his career as kind of a never was.

51:22Sean Fennessey:I guess$26 million for box office. I guess$16 million. I think maybe you might be more right than I am. Well. We'll see. Lionsgate film. Metacritic, I guess, 71. 74. Okay. John Carney usually does pretty good. Yeah. This was no once, is what I'll say. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Ads. Ever invest in something that seemed incredible at first but didn't live up to the hype? Marketers know that feeling. They optimize for the numbers that look great. Impressions, reach, and reacts. But when they don't show revenue, well, that's a not-so-great conversation with the CFO. LinkedIn has a word for that.

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53:21Sean Fennessey:US-based tax expert. Visit taxact.com to learn more. June 5th again, Scary Movie. This is either the sixth or the seventh scary movie film. How many of them have you seen? The first. That's it. So one. Okay. Did you enjoy it? Yeah. Okay. I love the scary movies. I guessed$84 million for this movie. Okay. Because this is a built-in brand that hasn't been around in a while. I kind of compare it to Final Destination Bloodlines with the like, oh, I forgot how fun it is to see these movies in movie theaters. Yeah. I could be wrong about that. That's smart. I want$52 million. Okay. Which is lower but not like disastrous.

54:01Yeah, that seems reasonable. Yeah, that seems reasonable. That people who are excited to go see it will go see it.

54:06Sean Fennessey:One thing in this movie's favor, I think, is just that everybody came back. Anna Faris came back. Regina Hall came back. All the people who are known for these movies came back. So we'll see. Metacritic, I guess, 52. 54. Okay, we're pretty close on that one. June 12th, Disclosure Day. Yes. Steven Spielberg's new film. Yes. Shrouded in Secrecy. This is a hard one. I went back and forth. Really hard one. Because it's an original, but it is sci-fi. Spielberg has been not on a huge box office streak the last 10 years, but also he's Steven Spielberg. Many movie stars, but they have to keep the reveal.

54:52It's sort of a marketing challenge just in terms of what is in the movie and what you can tell people. so I went I wish I could remember the the math and the triangulation I used I did 165 oh that's big I I I went big okay I thought that because as as Jack observed and kind of you're doing the math I like the smaller things are going to be small and I think the bigger things will get at least some attention. I mean, you know, 165 is still like, I'm projecting it lower than Devil Wears brought it to.

55:30Sean Fennessey:Right. No, and I think wisely. I went 121. Okay. The thing is, is I do think that the film can play overseas as much as here. I mean, Ready Player One only made 137 million and that was pre-branded IP. Yeah. So I looked at that and thought about that a little bit. But Ready Player One, even at the time, well, first of all, it doesn't have any of the movie stars. And there's a difference between aliens and robots and whatever is going on over there. And it also had a little bit of built-in backlash, I think. It did. It wasn't very well-reviewed. Yeah. Although I did enjoy it at the time. And I think I might have even written about it.

56:20Sean Fennessey:this is very much like a much more serious state of affairs and I think if the film is able to really tap into the anxiety of UAPs then they'll be able to really do some business. And to your good friend Stephen our third chair is just out there being like I believe in aliens you know he's like he's doing it. He's working. I guessed 74 for Metacritic. I guessed 83. I would guess we're going to end up somewhere in the middle of that. This is a challenging genre. to nail if you're not like Denis Villeneuve right now, in terms of the critics. He is Steven Spielberg. And the last few... I think I'm undershooting to protect myself.

57:00I think that's fine. The last few Spielberg movies have been critically beloved.

57:06Sean Fennessey:True, especially West Side Story. And Fableman's. Yeah, Fableman's did very well too. It's more of a swing in a big genre like this, but we'll see. The next film, there's only... The one thing that is in this movie's favor is that everybody cleared out for it. There's only one other movie coming out on June 12th that's called Stop That Train. Yes. It's a comedy starring RuPaul directed by Adam Shankman. I guessed$16 million. I guessed$3 million. Okay. You could be right. It's counter-programming, obviously. I didn't even watch the trailer for this yet. It just came out last week. I guessed 43 for Metacritic.

57:39I guessed 47. Wonderful. So there we are.

57:42Sean Fennessey:Next film is Toy Story 5. Yeah. The Toy Story films have been very consistent at the box office. Did you look at the history at all? I did. A lot of money. This film comes out June 19th. I guessed$401 million. I guessed$503 million. Has the Toy Story movie crossed$500 before domestically? No, but Inside Out 2 was such a banger. It was over$600 million. And I think just the breakdown of the kids of it all and what we have seen about kids' movies with recognizable IP built in, they're doing well. So I kind of, I rounded up slightly from Lilo and Stitch and Minecraft and some other stuff. You might be right.

58:34Sean Fennessey:This might be huge. It's also just iPad the villain, really smart. I agree. It looks good. My daughter's really pumped about it. My Metacritic S is 89. Mine's, wow, okay. That's pretty much in the median of the Toy Story films. They're all kind of between 86, 84, and 92. I remember the first Toy Story film, one of the best-reviewed movies of all time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I know that Toy Story 3 is Tarantino's number one. Yeah. I want 78, which is not bad, but... Interesting. That would be a low for the Toy Story movies. You know. A lot riding on that movie for the health of this summer, actually.

59:10Sean Fennessey:If it's like a$2.5 billion movie, I don't know what did Inside Out 2 get to? Did it get to 2 billion? No I think it was like 1.4 1.6 or something Okay Be very curious to see how many legs how the legs are on that movie Okay and the next movie is The Death of Robin Hood on June 19th Yeah This is a revisionist portrait of the bandit the English bandit Robin Hood starring Hugh Jackman and Jodie Comer Yeah Also an A24 film I guess 26 million I guess 12 million That wouldn't be good No But, you know, there are the A24 experiments that work and there are the ones that do not. And I don't know. This comes from Michael Sarnoski who directed Pig and A Quiet Place Day One.

59:55I like those films.

59:57Sean Fennessey:I guess 66, Metacritic. 64. Okay. Girls Like Girls, which is a new coming-of-age dramedy from Focus, is coming out June 19th. We'll see probably a little bit more about it at CinemaCon shortly. I guess 9 million. I guessed 5 million. Metacritic score 78. 58. Damn. Not feeling it. Well. Is it because it has girls in it? Yeah. It's because it's only girls. Okay. Glad you know. It's tough. Haley Kiyoko is the director of this film. All right. Now, these are tricky, these next two. Yeah. We've got two movies on June 26th. Mm-hmm. Oh, did I forget one? I think I forgot one. What did you forget? I think I forgot The Invite.

1:00:40Sean Fennessey:oh you did forget the invite let's add the invite as well because we have three movies coming on June 26th okay let's just add that and in real time we're going to be able to guess what we think the scores in the box office are let's start with Supergirl while you're thinking about the invite Supergirl new DCU movie um directed by Craig Gillespie yeah starring Millie Alcock is that her name yes from House of the Dragon yeah the titular girl that is super got some worries about this movie myself yeah I guess 159 million I guessed 190 because I think that once again I just looked at what Thunderbolts made and there was maybe another even I can't remember my other comp I don't know it's the one word title where it is in the title something very recognizable Superman Supergirl it's good marketing uh okay there's a dog people like the dog got some concerns your daughter's really excited I'm not this movie looks very violent well I'm not sure if I want to put her in this because we've been watching the live action Spider-Man movies okay the Tom Holland ones yeah and they do have violence in them but they do have a cartoon quality this had like a she's shooting lasers out of her eyes at a thousand robots kind of energy that even the Star Wars films don't really glance at.

1:02:11Sean Fennessey:So I'm a little worried about that. But she knows about it. She does. She said, who is that? That's my friend. Metacritic score of 50. 53. Okay. Jackass, 5. Yeah. Now the Jackass films have done very well at the box office. Surprisingly well and very sturdy. The most recent film actually did very good business. There's not as much pre-release hype for this movie right now. I'm wondering if it will be one of the centerpiece things we see from Paramount at CinemaCon later this week. What'd you guess? 60 million. I guessed 81 million. Okay. I mean, we're not that far away. You never know. Metacritic?

1:02:5456, but that's their review, not mine.

1:02:57Sean Fennessey:Right. I guessed 64. Greatly looking forward to this movie. One of my favorite franchises in active moviedom. Let's talk about The Invite. You haven't watched the trailer. This is the four-hander about two couples who come together for some sort of interesting evening. Right. A24 picked it up out of Sundance. Seth Rogen, Olivia Wilde, Edward Norton, Penelope Cruz. Box office, I'll say... 34? I was going to go 44. Okay. 34 is, 36 was Materialists. Okay. And I think it'll... Kind of in that zone. Be in that zone. But I'm looking at the last year's 44 to 48 range were Downton Abbey, Paddington in Peru, Mickey 17 and Regretting You.

1:03:44Which I, you know, all in my own way, I had lovely times at the cinema for all of those. Absolutely. But sort of the, if you're interested, you'll, you know, you'll go to the movies. So, and I think people are interested in the invite.

1:03:57Sean Fennessey:Yeah, I'm interested to see it myself. Metacritic, I'm guessing 79. 76. Okay. Minions and Monsters, your most anticipated movie of the summer. Right now, before we leave, do you think I'll get to take a picture with a minion this week? 100 % do. Will it only be one? There are thousands of Universal employees waiting to help you. Which one? I don't know what their names are. The goggles, the overalls. Which one's Bob? You mean Kevin Stewart and Bob, who apparently are not even going to be in this movie. What are we doing? What? Is that true? Wow, where are they? I don't know. That's what I've heard.

1:04:31Sean Fennessey:I don't know if that's confirmed. I thought I saw them in the trailer. I mean, not in the trailer? I don't think so. They do all look somewhat alike. They do? That's Minions racist. Do Minions drink Negronis? I think the answer is yes. You're going to find out shortly. According to r slash letterboxd, Bob Stewart and Kevin will not be the main characters. Well, that's different than not being in it. Yeah. That is true. But isn't there the main draw? The thing you got to remember about this movie is there are minions, but there are also monsters. Yeah. Right? So what's going to be the balance? Will there be more monsters than minions?

1:05:07Sean Fennessey:We don't know. Well, what if it's about the monster inside of every minion? Oh, good point. Yeah. It's a metaphor for trauma. The minion's trauma. I feel so monstrous even though I'm a springy yellow pill-shaped creature. 352 million. 350. Wow. Yeah. Now that's close. Yeah. That's really close. Metacritic, 61. 54. Again, their score, not mine. To me, the blooms off the rose on the Minions franchise. Okay. I don't care. That's fine. Not of note to me. Gentle Minions, that's in the past. This is a movie about making movies. And this is a movie about creature features. It is where you and Negronis and screwball humor.

1:05:50Sean Fennessey:Why do you keep trying to make Negronis a part of this? Well, I really, when I was at the film for the absolutely excrucible Super Mario Brothers Galaxy, I once again was treated to this trailer. And I'm pretty sure they were drinking a Negroni. The minions were drinking a Negroni? Yes, in a sort of like Musso and Franks type bar, like a banquette. and if you look at the cocktail and the glass choice it looks like a Negroni I mean it could be an old fashioned it's not a martini it's not a margarita I've never heard of such wish casting in my life than my minions drink Negronis I was just there engaging with cinema you know I meet the films where they are we gotta get through the rest of these movies okay so couple big ones coming up the first one is Young Washington which comes to us from Angel Studios on July 3rd trying to get that Independence Day dough.

1:06:44Sean Fennessey:This new film stars Ben Kingsley, Andy Serkis and William Franklin Miller as George Washington. It's the story of George Washington as a young man. What'd you guess? I'm going 15 million because the Angel with the exception of not The Sound and the Fury. What was that? What's the big one called? The Sound and Fury Snuffle by William Faulkner. Sound of Freedom. The Sound of Freedom is an Angel Studios breakout movie. But otherwise, you get to have Jesus in the mix for those movies to really pop. Yep. And this is, you know, this is about Washington, George Washington. So I only did 15 million. I did 19 million.

1:07:25Sean Fennessey:Okay. We're close. 44 Metacritic. 39. Okay. Let's talk about Moana. Okay. Comes out July 10th. It's a live action remake of the beloved Disney classic Moana. I guessed$412 million I guessed 410 Wow There we go Perhaps we're spending too much time together talking about movies Metacritic score 53 I have 39 Wow I think people are very mad about this Okay It doesn't matter to seven-year-olds I think they're gonna be just fine When you say people once again are the people in the room with us right now Oh I don't know the reviews on that trailer are bad Okay They're very bad The movie looks bad We don't need it I'm sick of the live action thing.

1:08:07Sean Fennessey:I think it's going to do fine business. It does feel a little bit like Lilo and Stitch. I am genuinely curious to know if they change anything from the original Moana, which is like maybe not a perfect movie, but it's pretty damn good. So it just feels too soon. It just feels like that movie just happened like 10 years ago. Why are we? Anyway, okay. Gail Daughtry and the Celebrity Sex Pass, new movie from David Wayne of Wet Hot American Summer Film and many other great comedies. The State TV Show comes out July 10th starring Zoe Deutsch. box office I said 6 million 9 million okay Metacritic 58 71 I think it looks charming I saw it it was okay okay The Odyssey eat shit sorry to say I love David Wayne I'm a big fan of his The Odyssey biggest movie of the summer yeah comes out July 17th is a new film from Christopher Nolan adapting Homer what's Homer's last name he's like Madonna he's one name only I see I guessed what did you guess?

1:09:06I did 350 million. I guessed 412. Wow.

1:09:10Sean Fennessey:Which is really high. I mean, that's great. So Oppenheimer was 330. Uh-huh. And that was with most of the premium screens. Mm-hmm. But not all of them. But not all of them. You're right. And there's no one coming for this movie for two full weeks. That's true. It is also still, well, you know, Oppenheimer was about, American history and American Prometheus and the bomb and you know this is an epic action film sure that's true swords and sandals in theory and it's got more way more stars I like it it would be fun if it were 412 now that would be a huge accomplishment because if a movie like this makes 400 million dollars domestically it's making is it making 2 billion dollars worldwide I don't know it's possible that would be wonderful I'm so interested what's your Metacritic guess 83 I guessed 88 okay Wow.

1:10:03Sean Fennessey:I feel like the tide has just fully shifted with him. Not just with me, but with many people. No, I think so. I mean, 83 is high. It is high. It is high. I'm really interested to know if this is like an Oscar contender or not, or if it's just a spectacle film. July 17th, Cut Off. This is a new comedy starring Jonah Hill and Kristen Wiig about two rich kids who are cut off from their parents' wealth. Yeah. That I've heard good things about. dangerous date to put this movie on though opposite the Odyssey I guess 47 million I guess 28 million seems but I'm looking forward to it me too Metacritic score 59?

1:10:44Sean Fennessey:66 July 24th my birthday movie Evil Dead Burn this is the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 6th Evil Dead movie okay last one I loved Evil Dead Rise directed by the guy who's got the mummy movie coming out this week Lee Cronin new director on this one Sebastian Vanacek. Pretty sturdy franchise. The last few of them. I guess 67 million. I guessed 60 million. Okay. Metacritic 64. 63! Damn, we're getting too good at this. Spider-Man Brand New Day. Yeah. We talked about the trailer. It's coming out July 31st. Your birthday film. Tom Holland's Zendaya. The whole gang is back. Yeah. We got Bernthal in as the Punisher. We got Michael Mando in as Scorpion.

1:11:27Yeah.

1:11:28Sean Fennessey:We got a whole bunch of other villains. I think Tombstone's in this one. So do you remember how much Spider-Man No Way Home made domestically? I'm going to guess it was like$630,$700. $814 million domestic. Wow. And it was like$1.9 total. Yeah. Yeah. I remember the total. And that was December 2021. Yes. But it had a superpower that this movie does not have. That's true. And it brought the movies back, right? Yes, totally. Well, actually Top Gun Maverick did, but that's fine. they did it together that's that's really beautiful I'm sure that that is you know what David Ellison would say what's your guess I did go big on this but not shoot what did I put down this is this seems crazy but I wrote it down 580 so I have 527 okay could be under I think I'm just accounting for the Odyssey that the Odyssey is the movie that's like you have to go see this in a movie theater Spider-Man of course has a built-in audience and is huge 527 would be a huge hit No Way Home was like, that was like a quasar.

1:12:32Sean Fennessey:That was very unusual. We'll see. We'll see what happens. Metacritic, I said 62. I said 51. Damn, you think it's going to take some hits? Yeah, you know, they've already reached the pinnacle. We were all very, very generous about No Way Home, which was very charming. And now they got to keep going and no one remembers anybody. Like, okay. Understandable. Did you see the film Fall? We're entering August, by the way. Which is when things get a little dicier. Yeah. I did not see the film Fall. I read about it last night. It's a film about two women who climb a giant tower and then maybe or maybe they don't fall.

1:13:08Are you afraid of heights?

1:13:09Sean Fennessey:Nope. Not at all? Nope. I am afraid of heights. Okay. So you should check out Fall. Nice. You should really tap into your cerebral cortex. No, thank you. Fall was fine. Okay. This is called Fall 2. Yeah. It's a sequel to Fall. Mm-hmm. They just go back up the tower? I think it's two new people. Okay. Oh, no. I don't know what they're going up this time. Okay. This was like an abandoned electrical tower in the middle of the desert. I would not do that. It seemed like something you would want to climb. Yeah. This film, who knows what they'll climb. Maybe they'll climb Jacob Elordi. That I would watch.

1:13:41Sean Fennessey:The box office, I guess$29 million. Oh, I guess$7 million. That's possible. I don't know. Metacritic, 53. 41. Also on August 7th, many movies on August 7th. Ice Cream Man. Yes. This is Eli Roth's new horror movie about an ice cream man. Yeah. I guess 17 million. I guessed 9 million. Bought Metacritic 36. 34. Damn, you're down on Eli Roth. Thanksgiving was actually a hit. I just, the Metacritic was very easy. You go look at Eli Roth's director of Metacritic, where they're not fans. He's not beloved critically. I'm a fan of his movies. One Night Only. Yes. Now, I just booked a vacation, so I'm not going to be here for this episode.

1:14:20Sean Fennessey:This might be a solo Amanda pod. No, I think this is also when my vacation is. No, yours is the next two weeks. Oh, interesting. Okay. Oh, great. This is written and directed by Will Glock. I know. I'm very excited. It's his first film since Anyone But You. And of course, he's made Easy A and a number of other quality films. Stars Callum Turner and Monica Babar. Yes. And it's a rom-com. It's a romantic dramedy about two strangers try to fall in love on the one night a year when premarital sex is legal. Yeah. They filmed in Manhattan. incredible supporting cast here including Molly Ringwald LeVar Burton Maya Hawke Julia Fox Estee Heim Ziwe and King Princess what's your guess?

1:15:04what is my guess? my guess is not at the levels of anyone but you so 38 million?

1:15:10Sean Fennessey:I guessed 76 you did you think it's going to be the thing I think this has a chance I would love for it to be a thing there's been a Colleen Hoover movie in this zone the last couple years I think obviously anyone but you was a winter release but But, you know, Callan Turner, Monica Barbaro are not nearly as famous. But there's not really a lot of movies for women in the entire month of July. And it's going to feel like a little bit of a desert. And I think this movie could fill that in. Okay, Super Troopers 3. Oh, my Metacritic is 61. Where is mine? 52. Okay, Super Troopers 3. Yes. Beloved franchise.

1:15:51Sean Fennessey:I think I had Jay Chandra Shaker on the show in like 2017 when Super Troopers 2 came out. Really fun conversation. He came into the studio. I guessed 48 for this. I guessed 22. Metacritic 52. 47. Okay. Here's a sticky wicket. Yeah. Some hope dicting going on here for me on this one. Mine too. This is, I think, my last high number. Well, not totally, but yeah. The End of Oak Street. New David Robert Mitchell film. And I don't remember why it's this high. I mean, I know why, but I can't remember what my comps were. Comes out August 14th. Anne Hathaway and Ewan McGregor star in a Twilight Zone-esque fantastical story of a suburban community that undergoes some dramatic changes, apparently.

1:16:37Sean Fennessey:I guessed 81 million. Oh, mine's way higher. Really? Yeah. I guessed 131. Well, that would just be a home run if this movie did 131. I kind of, I don't remember why I think, I wish I could. Damn, what a summer for Anne Hathaway. I guess I put it, I guess, you know what it was? I remember what it was. I put this in the weapons slot. I mean, it is in the weapons slot. It is the same weapons slot. And we were all like, wow, what's happening? Visionario tour. And so, you know, by this point, people who are going to see The Odyssey will have seen The Odyssey. this really feels like it is entirely dependent on pre-release hype if they get people to see it a month early and are like yeah this movie I think that actually will help it the same way it helped weapons I don't know my Metacritic is 71 I guess 73 okay Paw Patrol the Dino movie yes this is either the second or the 900th Paw Patrol film I don't know the answer and I don't want to know yeah Yeah, I was going to ask, so how are the dinos involved with the, do the dinos join Paw Patrol?

1:17:48Sean Fennessey:This is a prequel to the end of Oak Street.

1:17:53Box office, 42 million.

1:17:54Sean Fennessey:I guess 59. Okay. Maybe a little high. Metacritic, 39. 29. The Rivals of Amzia King. Yeah. This is a very interesting movie that I'm very eager to see. it premiered I believe at South by 2025 and is also coming out from Black Bear it's directed by Andrew Patterson who made a little movie during COVID called The Vast of Night and you guys would not stop talking about it Chris and I love that movie this movie stars Matthew McConaughey it seems like a very hard sell I've had it described to me as a very odd movie but I was such a big fan of The Vast of Night I guessed 6 million for the box office I guessed 11 million.

1:18:38Sean Fennessey:Sounds good. But, you know, we're not that far away. Metacritic? 68. I guess 84. Okay. It got really nice reviews. There's even some people who think it's possibly on the outskirts of the Oscar race. I don't know. I haven't seen it. I don't know. Next film, we're getting down to the end of August here. Insidious, The Bleeding World. But we have like 18 more movies. Yeah. Yes. I wrote down 38 million. 57. Okay. I guessed them. 54 Metacritic. 44. Insidious movies are solid. Yeah, but this is sort of a restart, right? Is it? I think Patrick Wilson is not in this film. I think that's right. These worlds are bleeding.

1:19:14That's a downgrade for me.

1:19:16Sean Fennessey:Is the bleeding world our world? I don't. You know, I know that Patrick Wilson directed the last one, right? He did. But I confess I didn't see it. A trio of stalkers infiltrate a quiet suburb and force a new family into the astral plane. I hate when that happens, where they uncover a terrifying truth. The further is bleeding into the real world. Okay. I guess we'll have to look into that. The next film is Mutiny. I'd like to speak about this briefly. Yes. I watched the trailer for this film. It's the new Jason Statham movie. It looks fucking awesome. It's about Jason Statham getting stuck on a boat and having to kill everyone on the boat.

1:19:54Yeah.

1:19:54Sean Fennessey:It used Step Into a World by KRS-One as its music in the trailer. You know, there's like two Jason Statham movies a year. That's true. Most of them are not really very interesting or useful. I got a feeling about this one. I'm not saying it's going to be a huge hit. But you're excited. This is beekeeper land for you? I don't think it will be as absurd. It will be different than beekeeper. Yeah, I don't think it will have the political trenchancy. Is that a word? Well, also remember the cold open of beekeeper and the online scam? It's just absolutely gripping. It totally rocked. This movie is from Jean-Francois Richet, the French director of Plane and the Messrine movies, starring Vincent Cassell.

1:20:32Sean Fennessey:So he's a good director. I don't know. I just got a vibe. Watch it after this. It's got style. It's got a great look. Statham, you know, punching people in the throat. Something I enjoy. Okay, what's your prediction? 38 million. 29 million. Okay, Metacritic 58. 42. Okay. But again, their score, not ours. That's right. Spa Weekend, August 21st. Yeah. This is a new film. It's a comedy. Yes. Starring Leslie Mann, Isla Fisher, Anna Faris, and Michelle Boutot. There's about four gals who go for a spa weekend. Yeah. You know what happens after that? I have no idea. So they get into some hijinks. And probably some fights also.

1:21:06Sean Fennessey:Kind of girls trippy. Yeah. Comes to us from John Lucas and Scott Moore. What do you think? 8 million. I guess 41 million. Wow. Okay. This is in the bad mom zone. Sure. But bad moms now would just go straight to streaming. I mean, this is just a very classic. Like, I can watch that at home. You might be right. I'm sorry about that. And some of that is just because of the demo that it is recreating. So you're saying that because you hate women? Yes, and spas. Do you like spas? I kind of don't have an opinion. Yeah. Seems like a lot of money for something that disappears quickly. I don't really like them.

1:21:48It's not how I would choose to spend a day, even if the resources were given to me. It's just, it's forced patience. It's kind of like, you know, meditation. I can't really go there. Forced patience. Yeah, I can't turn it off in that way. Is that a phrase or did you invent it? I invented that.

1:22:02Sean Fennessey:That's interesting. We should explore that. I don't think we need to explore it. I think we explore it on every episode of this podcast. And it's just that me not really wanting to deal with this shit. But yeah, I don't know. I'm not good at that type of lounging. Okay. It's like lounging by the beach where I have a book to read and then I can go swim. Perfect. But where you're just supposed to sit there peacefully without any stimuli. It's not me. Okay. Thanks for sharing those feelings. Cliffhanger, August 28th. Wait, can we get your Metacritic score for fall weekend? Oh, sorry about that. 39.

1:22:39Sean Fennessey:53. So Cliffhanger is coming to us from row K, which has been under some... Yeah, so is it? So it may not be coming out. And we could take it off the board if we think we're not going to see it. This is a remake of the Sylvester Stallone action classic starring Lily James. When I think Sly Stallone, I think Lily James. I'm guessing$27 million. I'm guessing$14 million. I guess it's at least got the cliffhanger. I'm probably going over on my small movies and under on my big movies. That's something I'm learning. Metacritic score 54. 33. Okay, Coyote vs. Acme. This is the film that was sacrificed at the altar of Big Warner Brothers.

1:23:23Yeah. Well, of their taxes.

1:23:26Sean Fennessey:Yes, the altar of their taxes. which is an altar we all share. I am going to say, this is a new Looney Tunes movie. There hasn't been one in some time. I'm going to say$36 million. Oh, that's great. I'm saying$10 million. You're probably right. Well, this is, so it's now, Ketchup Entertainment has it now, yeah. And they have not released a lot of giant movies. They've never released a movie with the Looney Tunes in it. Oh, that's true. Or maybe they have. Maybe they, was that actually that Porky Pig and, and, Daffy Duck movie, the animated movie that came out from Ketchup. It may have been actually.

1:24:02Ketchup Entertainment. I looked at this last night. That movie didn't. I'm pulling it up right now. Did they get both of them? The Day the Earth Blew Up. Yes. Yes.

1:24:10Sean Fennessey:Okay. They did get that. That was them. And they have this movie too, right? And it grossed$9 million,$8.9 million in the United States. Okay. So. Interesting. Well, we'll see what happens there. A couple more movies to go. Yeah. Wait, did we get your Metacritic score for that? 78. 72. Ridley Scott's The Dog Stars yes this is is it Callum Turner action movie it's Jacob Alordi how dare you sheesh who's the female lead I feel ill prepared Margaret Qualley interesting and Josh Brolin Guy Pearce and Benedict Wong this comes to us from Mark L. Smith who wrote The Revenant and shot by Eric Messerschmidt David Fincher's cinematographer.

1:24:57Sean Fennessey:It's a movie that is set in the aftermath of a catastrophic flu virus, post-apocalyptic thriller. What do you, what do you got? I'm probably going too high here, but it is a Ridley Scott movie. I'll be at one that was delayed. 85 million. I went 61. Yeah. I think I'm just being cautious for some reason. No, I think that's smart. I think Napoleon was around 60 million, but that was still sort of COVID-y. Yeah. And you wonder if the Elordi and the Ridley Scott of it all will pick up some juice. It would really help this show. Yes, if it was good. For this film to be good. Yeah. Because it would do a lot towards two young stars.

1:25:38Sean Fennessey:Obviously Ridley, somebody we really enjoy despite, you know, not always hitting it. That's true. It would be. We got to do an episode before we go to fall film festivals, you know. Don't want it to be just cavernous out here. Okay. Um, I'm guessing a 70 on Metacritic. I'm guessing 53. Damn. Well, it's late Ridley, you know? It's late Ridley. I love him, but he fast forwards through things. Very true. August 28th, we also have Finding Emily. We do. Finding Emily is basically like a teen dramedy when a lovesick musician is given the wrong number for his dream girl. He teams up with a driven psychology student to find her together.

1:26:20Sean Fennessey:They spark a hilarious campus-wide frenzy. and Gory Rice and Spike Fern last seen in Ella McKay. I guessed. Oh, right. 9 million. I guessed 4 million. Okay. Is that a critic score? 61. 72. Okay. And then Idiots is coming on August 28th formerly titled The Shitheads. Debuted at Sundance. New film from Macon Blair. Heard this is really fun. Yeah. Dave Franco stars in it alongside O'Shea Jackson. Yes. Really, really good trailer. I guessed 8 million. I guessed 7 million. 69 Metacritic score just for the jokes. 53. Because the jokes only get you so far. Who do you think won this? That's every movie coming out this summer.

1:27:06Sean Fennessey:Can I add one quick I put at the bottom of the doc? Honorary Cliff Booth guess? Rumored? August? It's very difficult. No, it's not. Do you know where that is being released? First of all, Netflix. So even though it will get a limited release, would it be? They probably won't track the box office. Yeah. Number two, Venice Film Festival, baby. Is that confirmed? No, but it's confirmed in my soon-to-be-booked plane ticket. We could guess what we think that movie would have made if a different studio released it. Okay, well. There will be no way to check against it, but just as a thought exercise.

1:27:41In Hollywood, domestic box office. What was it, like 350? Let's see. Domestic was 142.

1:27:49Sean Fennessey:Oh, am I thinking worldwide? Yes, and worldwide was 377. 377, okay.

1:27:57I would guess that it would have made 107 domestic. If Warner Brothers were releasing it.

1:28:08Sean Fennessey:Or Sony, which released Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 95? Okay. And we'll never know the answer. Metacritic score?

1:28:2473?

1:28:25Sean Fennessey:Yeah, I was going to say 78. Yeah. But only because people are too sour about David Fincher. So I saw the man on Saturday night. Mr. Fincher? Yeah. I went to a screening of Zodiac at the Academy Museum. Oh, that's so fun. And there was an interview before the film played with Fincher conducted by Bong Joon-ho. That's so cool. Because the movie was screened as part of a series of inspirations for Bong. and he talked to Fincher for 30 minutes or so, 35 minutes. And it was fascinating. Bong, director Bong just fanned out the whole time. Love it. Real Chris Farley show vibes in a very charming way.

1:29:04Sean Fennessey:And Fincher was incredibly withholding. That's my guy. And, you know, he had some answers that went into great depth about the making of Zodiac. and there were many times I mean at least three questions I think he gave a total of like 12 word answers with a real shit eating grin on his face I found it very charming and funny I do think some people are probably a little bit frustrated by his unwillingness mostly because I think Bong was experiencing something I felt many times while interviewing directors which is you want to ask about an idea in the movie say I feel like thematically This indicates this.

1:29:46Sean Fennessey:For example, in Zodiac, there's this passage of time in the final third of the movie where the San Francisco Chronicle offices, they shift a kind of color tone from yellow in the late 60s, early 70s to blue in the late 70s. In particular, there are three huge columns, pillars in the middle of the office that are painted yellow in the first half and then the back half are blue. Bong located this fact and asked him directly about it and said, is this supposed to indicate something about our feelings about the characters, the murder, the movie? A precise question. Yeah, what he was looking for in that answer.

1:30:23Sean Fennessey:And Fincher was just like, yeah, that was the idea of Don Burt, who's a genius, a production designer. And yeah, we just thought, you know, that's what it would look like. Like just like a real, just like not giving you anything on the metaphorical insinuations of a creative decision. and I felt seen. That's really beautiful. Yeah, it was great. Fincher, seems like he's doing well. I thought a lot about him this weekend when I was in the Bay Area. Berkeley, of course. His old stomping ground. Yeah. I guess he's who I think of most when I'm up there. He seemed to be having a very fun time not giving anybody anything.

1:31:01I know. That is what he does. Very admirable. And that's what I love about him. Something, unfortunately,

1:31:06Sean Fennessey:I'm not able to do in my walk of life. Well, this was fun. You think you won? I have no idea. I guess you kind of kept to a median, and I kept to big and little. The only one that I think is quite large is Billie Eilish that you guessed. Everything else feels totally in play. If I'm wrong about Billie Eilish, that'll be great. I currently don't even have it on the discussion plan for the show, but maybe we should. I mean, I guess I'll go see it, learn about Billie Eilish. There's one song I like. Bad Guy? No, I like Lunch. Okay. Yeah. Don't know that one. I have nothing against Billie Eilish. Just haven't spent too much time.

1:31:43She and I have the same J.Crew shirt that we wear from time to time. She looks great in it.

1:31:47Sean Fennessey:Sounds like we should wrap this episode up. Are you ready? Are you ready for the amount of clothes you have to talk about in Devil Wears Prada 2? I'm ready to listen to you say things. Okay, good. Thank you. That's all I ask. That's what I do. I listen. I listen to women and men. Sure. Yeah. And let's listen to this conversation with Daniel Goldhaber right now.

1:32:12Sean Fennessey:Almost three years later, Daniel Goldhaber back on the show. Okay, Danny. So when I was a teenager, went to a sleepover, and they had faces of death on VHS, and we watched it, and we believed it to be true. We believed it to be the most vile and yet accessible in video stores product imaginable. I assume you had a similar experience, but maybe you did not. I did not. Okay. I was talking to a friend earlier today, and they were talking about how, like, there are few things that are kind of like the JFK assassination, where everybody, like, knows where they were when. And, like, Faces of Death is kind of one of those things, which I think is kind of funny.

1:32:52Like, everyone has, like, such a tactile and, you know, like, evocative way of describing their first time. But for me, my first real encounter with Faces of Death was getting an email from my agent in 2019 saying, Legendary has acquired the right to do Faces of Death. And there was an exec there named John Selk who I really liked, and he was interested in talking to me and Issa about it. And so we went and watched Faces of Death. Was this because they had seen Cam? And they just thought this is the kind of person who would get what this material is? Yeah, well, John had, you know, I think identified as kind of like, you know, what do you do with Faces of Death?

1:33:29I think John had identified the exact thing that like Faces of Death is everywhere now. And that was, you know, Issa and I's experience generationally is that after we saw the movie, we realized that we had seen Faces of Death, just like clips of it on Rotten.com or eBomb's world or whatever. Like it, we remembered it, but it was totally decontextualized from this original movie. And so for us and like for John, that was like an immediate like point of connection of being like, okay, like there's something here at this thing that like used to be this like cursed object that was really hard to get a hold of all of a sudden is accessible by basically anyone in the world 24 hours a day.

1:34:08That feels like a pretty profound shift in our relationship to violence in media, our relationship to media in general. and so that was very much a starting point for talking about the movie and then you know I worked for a summer as a content moderator for very somewhat informally but for some friends who had a startup and I had always thought that that would make for like just a great character somebody who kind of like you know they're seeing stuff you're not supposed to see and and so I thought that that would make for like a really good, you know, way into this subject matter. And then once we kind of combined the two of those, we were off to the races.

1:34:49Sean Fennessey:Can you tell me a little bit about that time as a content moderator? And so like, what did you see? And maybe even explicitly what it was that you had to do. So basically, in this particular case, this was in the early 2010s. I had some friends who had a social media startup that was like just getting off the ground. And And at the time, I don't know how true this is today. You know, there was a thing where it's like, okay, a new social media app goes up on the app store. People who, like, you know, the kind of dregs of the internet know there's no robust moderation department here. There's no, you know, pipeline to law enforcement that's been set up.

1:35:27And so they just start, you know, using it to, like, share child porn and, you know, snuff tape. And I think that, you know, this was something that the people that ran the company, I think, were a little like, oh. weren't entirely anticipating that. And so basically they just like hired friends of theirs, just camp on the feed, watch everything that was coming in and then just like try to take down, especially like the child porn as quickly as possible. And again, it was a small app. And so it was like not, it was a very different kind of like moderation than what we see in the movie. And then this kind of like, you know, very corporatized moderation that you have now that often is even just like a smoke screen for companies to kind of, you know, enact censorship of speech that they want or to otherwise kind of try to protect their liability when it comes to what's on their platform.

1:36:16But, you know, I, and, you know, the first few times you're doing this, some of the stuff you see you're like really deeply affected by. And then at a certain point, you just, you stop feeling the effect of it. Even if that doesn't mean that you're not still on some level being affected by it, you at the very least kind of just adjust and yeah so I only did that for like a summer it was a virtual job it was nothing you know I was

1:36:42Sean Fennessey:I was I needed money one of the ideas that I really like in your movie is this very thin line between what we are allowed to let titillate us and what we are not allowed to let titillate us and this idea of a person whose job it is to kind of enforce I you know I guess that kind of that ethical gray line and also that a movie like faces of death is is your movie is doing the same thing what is which is it is a discreet slasher with like in sincere hardcore violence which we know is like something we're allowed to enjoy right in these defined buckets right i'm curious like how you thought about blending what the original project was doing with where we are now and what we're allowed to be excited about in a movie in 2026.

1:37:30Yeah. I mean, I think for me, it's like, that's also like the whole thing. Maybe like one of the best ways I can talk about that is like, for us, the kind of cornerstone movie that we were looking at is Peter Bogdanovich's Targets, which I think is like one of the greatest movies of the 1960s. But it was like very similarly, you know, Corman had this like Boris Karloff movie that didn't totally work. and he had a few extra days on Boris Karloff's schedule and went to Bogdanovich and was like, you know, if you do the Korman formula, I'll let you do whatever you want. And then Bogdanovich turned that into this, like, unbelievable meditation on, you know, alienation and media and the suburbs and violence.

1:38:06And when I watched Target's kind of research for this, I kind of realized, like, you know, it was part of what really strengthened this kind of, like, dual perspective narrative we have, but also it was, like, one of these things of that's kind of a weird assignment. Like I have this kind of these elements for a movie and I don't know, do something with it. And it's not dissimilar from how it felt kind of having a company be like, we've acquired the remake rights to Faces of Death because we understand that there is like value in this IP. But like, this is not a movie that needs to or should necessarily exist.

1:38:42And it's, I think that like, that's something that the movie is ultimately reflecting on And at its core, it's like, why remake Faces of Death? Like, you know, because the movie is about somebody remaking Faces of Death and trying to squeeze value out of this IP for his own personal gain. And I think that, you know, ultimately, I think from my perspective, the movie more than anything is about the kind of just like idea of what has happened now that our media has become centralized in these giant corporations. You know, there are very, very few corporations that essentially control the vast majority of human speech.

1:39:25you know not even just public speech but even the way that we communicate with each other and it's ultimately these companies that are the ones setting the parameters for what we are and are not allowed to say what we are and are not not allowed to to see you know just how easy it is for them to adjust an algorithm and bury a movie because they might find some of the ideas in it unpalatable which is something that we definitely dealt with with pipeline you know and and so I I think that that's the thing is like, you know, the movie very much starts with this perspective of like kind of getting the audience to think about the fact that like the people that are adjudicating what is and is not going on to our phones are ultimately employees at a company that has its own goals and ambitions.

1:40:13And I think that relationship applies to all of the media that we see.

1:40:20Sean Fennessey:I'm curious how you and Issa work together. So this is the third film in a row that you've written together, right? No, Issa wrote Cam solo. So she was not on Pipeline? She was a producer on Pipeline. So she came, she, you know, she was a creative producer on the movie along with myself and Ariella. Okay. Two other producers too who made the film. But the three of us kind of developed the material and then this one we co-wrote. So, you know, I know that a lot of her personal experience went into Cam, but how do you guys write now? Like I always ask a duo writing team. Like, are you like back to back, typewriter to typewriter?

1:40:51Sean Fennessey:Like, how are you kicking ideas around in this world? because you do have this raw material of the original film, which you've managed to work into this project, but then you're also creating a whole world of characters that were not previously there before. Yeah, I mean, it's always, it's just a lot of conversation. Ultimately, like, when we get into the writing process, like, it generally is passing drafts back and forth, you know? She'll do a first draft, I'll do a big revision, and then eventually it gets to the point where, like, you're just doing line edits, and then you're just kind of, you know, that's when you're in the room together, usually, you know, like on set or the night after a shoot.

1:41:28And then I think, you know, obviously he says, you know, a co-filmmaker on the movies and that writing process extends all the way through production, through posts, through the marketing, you know, in terms of not just coming up with lines on set, but, you know, other ideas, you know, costumes and performance. And, you know, I think you only benefit from that. And in the case of this, because we're kind of conceptualizing what the movie is from the ground up together, you know, it's great to have somebody who is able to kind of really have their eye on the prize of what movie are we trying to make.

1:42:08Like, well, I can, you know, have the benefit of going getting lost in the weeds of, you know, just the logistics and minutia of pulling it all off and always have somebody I can turn to to kind of be like, hey, are we on track? You know?

1:42:20Sean Fennessey:When you finally got a chance to watch the original, what were your, like, what did you make of it? Especially being at the age you're at now and what you'd heard about it and how you'd consumed pieces of it over the years. I can't say I thought it was a good movie. but it's an interesting movie. And I think that what I find so interesting about the film is also like, there's a lot of mondo horror. There's a lot of, you know, fake snuff film. There's a lot of, you know, gross out movies. This came in a moment where like, there was plenty of kind of cursed horror stuff to choose from. Like, why this one?

1:42:59I think that's one of the most interesting questions around faces. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that like, Like, it doesn't feel like a movie anybody would make on purpose. It feels like it just, like, appeared on VHS. And I think that that's one of the questions that our movie is asking, too, is, like, you know, when I was doing my content moderation job, the most disturbing thing that I honestly felt about the footage was this question of, like, who's posting this stuff? Like, yeah, the content's bad, but I'm way more frightened about the person on the other end of this. and I think that that is you know very similar with the original faces of death in the sense that you feel like a truly deranged and like diseased mind did this because it's like these like horrifying images and it's like jaunty music you know and um um and like even just like some of the like like the monkey is so macabre and like and like it's it's goofy but that only weirdly makes it more disturbing because it's presented so straightforwardly.

1:44:03And I interviewed, um, the director of the movie, um, before doing this, uh, you know, I had a long conversation with him. Um, and you know, as he told it to me, cause, cause there's a director that's credited. It was not the real director. He was like the writer and the collaborator who essentially like took the public credit for the film, but the actual guy that made it, um, made nature documentaries for ABC. And he had a big documentary production company. And he was approached by a group of investors who were like, we want to make Mondo death. And he was like, that sounds like a weird art project.

1:44:39And he didn't want to be credited because he didn't want it to like, you know, disrupt his actual day job. But he approached it to something where he's like, I can't really lose here. I'm just going to have fun with this. And so like, you know, he was like, yeah, what if I put jaunty music in. Like, that's, like, fucked up and weird. But, like, the combination of all those elements really does leave it feeling like it's something that, you know, no human hand, like, would ever make.

1:45:06Sean Fennessey:It's so interesting, though, because that perfectly echoes probably some of the content that you experienced in moderation where people are submitting material anonymously and then also what the killer in the film is doing, which is operating in a kind of shadow. And it's so different from... the act of public creation, especially historically promoting a movie through a corporate studio system where you kind of have to put your name on it. And that friction between those two ideas is really, really fun. Exactly. No. And I mean, it's one of the interesting things about Arthur as a character to me is that he's chasing something, but he's not chasing any version of fame that we really understand because it's his his name isn't on it his face isn't on it and yet it's so clear that what he cares about is kind of like what he's getting out of it and i think for me one of the fundamental ideas of the film is that you know we live in an attention economy and you know in that we've said the more attention that you have the more value you have And simultaneously, we've gone and said, do you know how to generate a lot of attention very quickly?

1:46:20Go commit an act of mass violence. And so we've set the incentive structure up for young people that like very literally it's like if you commit an act of mass violence, you have a lot of value as a person, you know, or at the very least your name does, your reputation does, your go down in history. And you see the way that, you know, people talk about this stuff on message boards, you know, where they talk about like high scores for kill counts, you know. and then those conversations also generate attention and so for me Arthur is in many ways just a literalization of that he's somebody who is actually very rationally looking at the system that has been set out in front of him and say how can I feel like I matter how can I feel like I exist how can I feel seen and you see where he lives and and and and and you kind of get a sense for how kind of totally isolated and alienated this guy is and on some level it's like you're like, yes, this, what he's doing kind of, it, it makes sense.

1:47:15It's awful, but it's, there's a logic to it. And that I think is a logic that is again, something that has been systemically given to us by media companies.

1:47:27Sean Fennessey:Yeah. It's fascinating. Cause I know you finished this film some time ago, but our hero Balthazar and the drama and your film coming out effectively within a week of each other is also fascinating because they're all kind of, they're not about the same thing but they're located in the same vibe of how can people say how can people be seen through something cruel and dangerous and violent um tell me about making a slasher movie because one of the things i love about pipeline is is it just use like a pure heist model mentality to demonstrate something socially politically different but you know it in in the execution of it, it seemed like you had some real standards that you were trying to follow.

1:48:10Sean Fennessey:How did you think about this? Because there are thousands and thousands of slashers. Yeah, I think it's interesting because in all honesty, I never really thought of it as a slasher movie. I thought it's because it's not really, right? A slasher movie doesn't introduce you to the slasher on minute 15 and you're not spending about half the movie with him. Like, genuinely, the model was whatever Targets is, you know? Like, it's a thriller, it's a, you know, and like there's a silence of the lambsy kind of, you know, cat and mouse-ness to it. Like, that was always the conception. And then it's just a movie that then has a handful of slasher set pieces in them, right?

1:48:59And those were very consciously supposed to kind of be riffs on old classics. Because I think there's this fun thing about Arthur, which is like he's very clearly an extremely media literate person. And so people are like, oh, I love the stalking on his head. It reminds me of, you know, Tom Noonan in Manhunter. Yes, it also reminds Arthur of Tom Noonan in Manhunter. You know, like he's aware of the kind of homage and illusion that he himself is engaging in. It seems like he's only an agglomeration of his influences, really. Exactly. Exactly.

1:49:32Sean Fennessey:And so I think that like— Which is how a lot of people like communicate their personality on social media as well, which is another thing I like about the movie. And so—but you get this—there's this moment I really love where, you know—shall I get fine-grained about the movie? Yeah, sure. I guess it's out at this point. where Margot is hiding in the garage from Arthur and Arthur walks in. There's this like really amazingly just tense moment where, you know, she's hiding. Does he see her? Does he not? And it's kind of unclear if he sees her or not. And then he walks out and then she runs out and then she's like about to jump the fence and then all of a sudden he's back in the garage, door goes up and he shoots at her.

1:50:15And there's this really great question of like, does he know? is he actually chasing for himself a greater slasher? Does he want to jump scare her? To just shoot her in that moment would have been boring if he had spotted her, yes. Exactly. And he's not in it to win necessarily like that. He's in it for the narrative. And so I think that there's something about the way that I wanted it to be a slasher movie that also is performative in itself in a certain way. You know, and without, I never really wanted the movie to be self-aware and meta, but I wanted Arthur to be someone who is so completely seeing his existence through this performative lens that even he is kind of seeing the movie that he is experiencing and living was kind of part of the goal.

1:51:13Sean Fennessey:Is it Dockray Montgomery? Dacre. Dacre. So just an amazing performance. Yeah. And it's hard to do this because of what you're saying, which is there are a lot of sort of reference points. But I do feel like he makes something that feels also like a singular person in its own disturbing way. Had you guys talk about the character? Well, you know, how did his performance shake out the way that it did? Yeah. I mean, Dacre's an incredible actor and just like I think in general an incredible collaborator. Both he and Barbie are. um and and with dacre when i first met with him for the film i'd met with him for pipeline um which hadn't ended up really being a fit but i really liked him and uh we met for this and you know he got on the zoom and he was like i have to play this role i've never felt more passionate about a role and he's like i grew up i have severe ocd i was also like a super alienated bullied kid um he's like but i had this problem where um i cannot i could not sleep for 10 years under the covers of my bed because um if i felt even a crease in the bed sheet it would keep me up all night so i slept on top of the covers for 10 years and he goes i really relate to arthur i feel like you know i i see this guy's aversion with blood i see his like compulsion to do things that even hurt himself.

1:52:31And he's like, I really feel that. Everyone else I'd met with had kind of been talking about like this other guy they'd seen in the media. But Dacre was like, this is how I'm Arthur. And I think for me as a starting point of a collaboration, like that's a great place to start because as you're then building the character from the inside out, everything is coming from something that's like profoundly honest to the actor. And so for Dacre, he has a real obsession with textures and fabrics. And I think because that was the starting point of his connection to Arthur, that became the starting point for, you know, the entire thing.

1:53:07So a lot of what was originally scripted changed dramatically, especially just in the details of how this was rendered based on what felt the best to Dacre. Like we would go in for fittings for his character. And for him, it was all about kind of like literally the skin tight suit and the way that felt on his body. And like, it was more important to him that the fabric of the clothing felt better than maybe even like the look or the fit. And that's the thing is like, okay, then I'm trying to back that into an aesthetic that works for the film. But I also know, I can see it in the fitting. He's like rubbing, the way he rubs himself, like he's doing that because he's finding that part of the character, you know, in the fitting.

1:53:48So like the stocking over his head, that wasn't in the script. That was something that he wanted to do. Like that's something that Dacre felt like spoke to him about kind of like the way that Arthur would want to access that kind of performance. And then for me, I'm like, oh, well, that's also like Manhunter. And then, you know, we're bringing that in. And so it's a lot of just kind of a back and forth with, I think, you know, hearing how he's personally engaging with this and then finding a way to just make that work for the movie. but I think maybe one of the other funny things that I can share is I was about six months into the edit of the film and we were going back through some take or something and I heard me give a direction to Dacre and then I heard Dacre do the take and I went I called Dacre and I said Dacre are you doing my voice when Arthur's directing and he goes Did you just figure that out?

1:54:55Sean Fennessey:It's pretty good. Yeah. Okay, I have a theory that all of your films are about young people trying to utilize the media to seize control. I think they're about young people who feel driven nuts by the world that they live in and are trying to do something to change it, to break free of it. And they're ultimately kind of trapped by the fact that ultimately, even if they have essentially what becomes a personally redemptive act of violence, you know, I always felt the ending of Pipeline was a little misread. because you see comments or people like and all they do is post a tiktok it's like yeah because ultimately if you've done the thing how do you communicate it yeah oh you're right back you're right back where you started uh-huh and there's something interesting so that but that's that's a slightly more cynical i think it's just it's just realistic uh-huh i think that this is the problem is that like we're at the point where there is so little free media and communication you know we don't have all weeklies we don't really have zines we don't have underground newspapers we don't you know we don't congregate in public especially in the u.s nearly as much as we used to you know um and i think that that like you're you're seeing the effects of that which is that even when revolutionary acts take place telling the story of them and finding a way to tell that story in a way that actually brings people together around a movement around a progressive idea is harder than ever before because with a push of a button you can completely disrupt how that storytelling is actually disseminated to people um and this is i think the most clearly communicated at the end of faces right it's that in order to prove that there's a sadistic serial killer who's murdering people on the loose uh and making snuff films and posting them online she's gotta make a snuff film gotta post about it yeah and then she's got post about it.

1:57:00And because everybody in the movie has kind of told her that's the only thing that we'll take is truth, is once we see it on the internet.

1:57:07Sean Fennessey:Do you feel as helpless and as stuck going back to where you started as the characters in the movies? I feel totally trapped by social media. You know, I grew up on the internet. I grew up as a very alienated person. But also, like, I think I've built a life in which I'm very reliant on. You know, I live between, you know, Berlin, New York, L.A. I work in film and media. You know, it ends up being a very effective way to keep in touch with a very large group of people that I work with and that I care about. And it's also an important vehicle for me to broadcast about my work. But it's also like it consumes my life and I can feel it like sapping and stealing the minutes from me.

1:57:55and I don't know how to escape it because I don't really know. It's like I work in film, right? Like how do I, like there are people that aren't online, you know, but then even some of the people you think aren't on Instagram, like they have Finsta, you know? Oh, yeah. Or they're paying attention.

1:58:14Sean Fennessey:I have learned at the highest levels that this is true. Yes, yes. Because like this, you don't mean to tell me that like, you know, some big actor doesn't want to know like what the skinny is on them. Yes. No. They definitely do. And so it's like, yeah, I'm like, how do I belong to a culture that is so online? And then at the same time, like, there's so many parts of the online culture I don't understand. Like something like Iron Lung kind of like. I thought that was so exciting. It's so exciting. It's also like, it's like, it indicts like absolutely every element of like how Hollywood thinks it should be working.

1:58:46Sean Fennessey:That was exactly where I wanted to take this conversation to. Because, you know, you're working as an independent filmmaker. you're making movies now that are pretty actively kind of poking the bear and trying to say like how close to the edge of like radical leftist point of view can i get into a mainstream experience yeah into an amc movie theater yes which is a a really i i really admire that as a as a as a mission creatively um but i also think that there's like kind of an inherent anxiety around that too or like how far can you push it and how big can you get and how successful can you be and what do you ultimately want for yourself out of all of those things i think i you know it's interesting with faces finally coming out and i think just like the movie finally seeing the light of day getting a pretty i think uh the reception that i think it should get which like Some people really love it and champion it.

1:59:47A lot of people are like, this movie shouldn't exist. And I'm like, yes, I agree with you. That's probably true. Think about that. But I think that I'm very happy to be trying to continue to just prove out that this work can be entertaining and theatrical and fun. And like ultimately even though there's like I think some radical ideas in the work, like that's very rarely what we're thinking about on the day. Like I'm thinking about like how do I make a fun movie? How do I stage the scene in a nice way? And, you know, how do I just like keep the audience's engagement? And that's ultimately like I think for me it's just very hard to want to make a piece of entertainment for the sake of making a piece of entertainment.

2:00:39I only get excited when I feel like I'm doing, you know, hopefully something new in terms of, you know, cinematic form, something new in terms of like, you know, narrative form and something new in terms of thematic form. And generally speaking, the new thematic stuff that I'm interested in is leftist. And so, like, there are obviously ideas I care about. But I think, yeah, it's, in all honesty, I had, I think, hoped that, it's not like that I hoped that pipeline would get people to go blow up pipelines. But I had hoped that it would maybe have served as a little bit more. We got like so much press and like, you know, national security bulletins.

2:01:23I'd hoped it would like, at the very least, maybe engender like a bigger conversation about, you know, just tactics and what's working and what's not working. And, you know, how we should think about organizing differently, potentially. And what I saw was like a lot of people watch the movie and were like, I watched the movie. And that's my catharsis. And that's fine. Like I have to meet the audience where they're at, you know, and I'm like, okay, that's interesting. Like, I don't think movies, I think there was a time that movies were going to like get people to go out and do stuff. I don't think that's how movies operate anymore.

2:01:58Sean Fennessey:Well, that idea is in your mood. I mean, there's the refraction element of like, I said something out loud. And so I have done my duty, you know, I've done my Starship Troopers moment, you know, and it's like, did you though? Exactly. You know, like you consumed something. Exactly. And then you went home. and and so i think for me i'm also trying to get i'm more interested i think and this is something that we started with faces that i will be digging into more and more i i think i'm actually becoming a little more interested in like instead of trying to like spur people to action or spur people to change it's it's more about like getting them to understand more using film as like a way to be like and and if you can kind of like peek under the hood and look at the little watch gears running you're like oh that's what this is doing to me just just an idea and like again this is like a little bit a design idea in faces of death that like you know when you're texting somebody when you're doing email that's a video game that's a video game it has little notifications it has things you have to check off it's like i had this revelation during the pandemic when i was just like in my computer i was playing zelda breath of the wild and a new email notification popped up on my computer and i was like wait i also have like i have a task to do over here and i have a task to over here and like i actually am having the exact same feeling yeah the endorphin rush exactly from both of these things oh something new new quest and new email same thing and i'm like oh my god like everything is a video game right now right but like no one's thinking about it that way no one's seeing it that way no one's experiencing that reality or like because because there's also like there's no good video game criticism all sorts of stuff like that so it's like for me i'm like okay how can i get an audience to like start thinking or feeling or like perceiving these kind of ways that like systems are being built around us in ways that like at the very least will allow them to reflect on their experience differently um you know even just thinking about the fact that like that that an attention economy does really kind of engender somebody wanting to commit mass murder is like that's the argument of the movie and i think if somebody walks away from the film being like oh that's that's interesting i think that there's a tremendous amount that could be extrapolated from that that you know would hopefully be productive for that individual yeah i think there's also something interesting about that which i don't think it's quite true for Pipeline, which is that I think a lot of people will also see the movie and be like, cool serial killer movie, and then stop thinking about it.

2:04:30Yes.

2:04:30Sean Fennessey:Which is a, you know, that's an unusual opportunity that I think filmmakers have that very few other artists have, where you're sort of like, I have all of these thematic load-bearing ideas that I bring to my project, but I have to accept and probably even know clearly at the head of time that like, it is also a product and that people will receive it in different ways too. Like your intent can't be confirmed. I think that at the same time, one of the beautiful things about being a filmmaker is I think that sometimes movies operate on people five years after the fact. You know, there's a movie that for no good reason you can't shake, but it lodged itself in your brain like a thorn.

2:05:11And I think that, you know, and like that's obviously true of Faces of Death for a lot of people. For no good reason that movie is this thing, but it is. And who kind of knows why? and who kind of knows what that means. And I think that, you know, we also know that like our images will now more than ever become decontextualized from our movies. Like the ways in which, you know, you see like the White House posting fan cams of war films is like that's a real total shift in terms of like just, one way I put it is up until 10 years ago, we never as humans used images to communicate directly one-on-one with each other you know people would make images and then show them and then that would be something that was experienced but now if i want to communicate an idea to you i can send you a gif i can send you a gif of a movie so now all of a sudden like the like legacy of like you know cinematic imagery has become language

2:06:14Sean Fennessey:there's also something else that is a consequence of that which is the the extraction of language from communication which is a whole other kettle of fish yeah yeah but but i think that that's the point is that it's like okay so that's language now and like that also is like a complete change in terms of like i'm definitely aware now when i'm making a movie i'm like this image this shot i hope that could be a good meme do you think that yeah yeah of course yeah do you think a a lot of filmmakers think that way now. Yeah. I think anyone who's online and I think that they might pretend that they're not, but it's like, how that's, I know that's how I'm going to live in the cultural imagination at this point.

2:06:53That's how my work is going to live on. Like it used to be like, Oh, you got a great quotable line. Now it's like, no, you have something that like communicates a very specific feeling and emotion and aesthetic in a way that like, actually language feels like it can't totally capture. And like, you've done that and you've Brought a cultural moment around it, and now it's being used as language. And that's cool.

2:07:16Sean Fennessey:That's interesting. Yeah. Well, there was a thing previously when we didn't think about communicating in this way, and I love how you've circled this, that was about the primacy of the shot. It had to be something grand or epic or physically difficult to achieve. And now it is about the image, like the still or the locked, you know, moving gif. And that is different, too. And like that, I think, pretty dramatically changes like our cinematic expectations of what we think is good, what we think is memorable, what we think has value. And so the idea of someone like you saying like, I'm going to try to make one of these, or at least I think this could be one of those things, is really fascinating.

2:07:55I'm never approaching being like, ah, yes, this is like, and this is the meme moment. But it's like, maybe I'm on set and I see something and I'm like, oh, I can see how this could be used and captured that way linguistically. Because that's just, that's how my mind has become wired.

2:08:10Sean Fennessey:It's fascinating. So, as I alluded to, we spoke three years ago. You said, I'm just about to start doing Faces of Death. And that's a long time has gone by since then. if you would have asked me a year ago, will I ever see this movie? I probably would have said no just based on how I know things work. What happened? How did you get here? Maybe we can close with that. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think that this is a project that Issa and I initially pitched in 2019. And just for context, when we were putting together our idea and we were trying to figure out which platform does this take place on?

2:08:49Is it Instagram? Is it YouTube? in terms of not literally, but, you know, spiritually. Isa was like, have you ever heard of TikTok? And I go, no, what's TikTok? And she introduced me to TikTok. And I think, you know, she immediately had this vision of like, with what TikTok is, with how it works, like the kind of phenomenon that we're talking about in the movie becomes like much more plausible. And so we built around TikTok. And then, you know, we pitched, we got the job. We closed our deal, like March 10th, 2020. So then COVID hit. And by the time we finished the script and we were like thinking about making the movie, like the business had completely changed.

2:09:26And Legendary, which was kind of trying to get into the low budget genre game, that started to make a little bit less sense. And, you know, but they still had some projects that they were passionate about, but we couldn't really figure out a path with Faces. And then I used that moment to go make Pipeline. So I kind of used Faces as like a cudgel to get Pipeline together. So that's how I put my cast together. and then I finished Pipeline and then all of a sudden like I had heat and they were like great let's go make faces and then the writer strike happened two thirds of the way through our shoot which was very challenging and we were like you know writing as we were shooting and that caused some issues and then you know even getting into the post production process you know we had a hiatus for long periods of time because I wasn't allowed to do writing work on the film and Isa wasn't allowed to do writing work on the film you can't work with the actors on anything because you know You can't record ADR.

2:10:18So, like, that just made that whole experience very complicated. And then I think by the time the movie was done, I think it became very clear that, like, it, as you said, it is a movie that's poking the bear in a number of ways in the kind of extremity of its content. but also in the fact that like it is very explicitly kind of calling out corporate media culture for also trying to kind of like own our nostalgia, our childhood, ring every last drop out of it. Like it's a weird question, like why remake Faces of Death? And I think it's an interesting prompt, but it's one that ultimately we are kind of like, you know, pointing the finger back and being like, yes, why make Faces of Death?

2:11:04And that's not exactly the kind of thing that I think, you know, the big studios are going to be excited about releasing. I know that at least the head of marketing for one major studio said that he thought the movie was morally despicable. And so I think that, you know, because a lot of Legendary's business, you know, like the way that company is structured is they put movies out through the studio system. When it became clear that that was not really going to be a viable path for the movie, when I think that we'd hoped it would be, then it was about, okay, now we have to kind of figure out where this lives in the market and the marketplace.

2:11:41And that just took time because it was a shift for them and a shift for how the movie was kind of initially built. And then even once we had found IFC as a partner, you know, because that conversation with IFC started a year ago. You know, so it just like once we even figured out, OK, this is maybe a place to do the movie, just building out the deal and figuring out how to put the movie out, you know, just took time.

2:12:11Sean Fennessey:Do you think you'll try to make another movie that could be released by a major studio? Yeah, absolutely. I'm working on one right now. What were your takeaways from going through that particular process with this movie? I think, you know, I've actually been trying a different process with the way I've been working with studios. I think it's like studios, everybody is just trying to value the movie. And everybody has their ideas about what is going to get an audience to go see a film, tell their friends to go see it, all of that. As William Goldman famously said, nobody actually knows anything about that.

2:12:55And I think that what I've witnessed is that as more and more of a private equity mentality moves into Hollywood, there's more and more of a push to kind of like get rid of the old eye in my gut as a producer, as a studio head. I just got a good feeling about this. I know enough about the culture. I know enough about the zeitgeist. Let's go make this movie. That's how it used to work. Yep. You know? And now it's like, no, no, no, no, no. All of this stuff has to be like somehow proven out and de-risked and like in a way that the model likes. And part of that is so that if the movie doesn't work, everybody goes, hey, the model said it was okay.

2:13:31It wasn't my fault. Yep. Like, you know? Yep. And so I think for me, it—

2:13:37Sean Fennessey:I have a whole jag about how the death of the Hollywood studio executive, which used to be a villainously perceived character in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s. But now that person has been transformed into the de-wrist analysis monster that you're describing, which is actually, in many cases, significantly more insidious. Because I think there's some incredible execs I've worked with, you know, like John Silcott, legendary, who hired us, you know, Alex Garcia over there, like, you know, helped with like really brilliant people, you know, but they're often sometimes, I think the executive class in Hollywood right now is by and large like they just have a fraction of the power that they used to have you know it um and so i think that um um for me it's really about seeing the ways in which i did not understand the valuation mechanisms of pipeline of faces of death and knowing a lot more of the questions to ask from like a very early on part of the process.

2:14:43Like, you know, very exactly like what what are the set pieces you need? What do they look like? Whether it's in horror, whether it's in something else, you know, understanding like ahead of time, like where is the value add cast for you? How are we, you know, I have a project I'm working on where like, you know, I think figuring out even just the age range with a studio partner of like, you know, here's what we would want. Where does that leave? Like what our possible talent pool would be? So then I can actually like go and build a great story around something that I know makes sense for my partner's valuation incentive structure, you know, because like I can like, you're always working with like a limited set of things as a filmmaker in the studio system.

2:15:29you're always kind of working with like what you have and so i'm kind of just trying to figure out like okay what what do they care about and then how can i make that a movie that i really also 100 want to make and again that's what everybody's been doing but i think that as every financier and buyer and distributor becomes more and more boutique you know everybody has their own cast list everybody has their own idea of like what set pieces matter you know you know um um some directive will come down where somebody's like we did a case study and jump scares aren't working anymore and then that company will be like we're not in the jump scare game anymore but then another company will like not have gotten that memo and they still feel like you know the jump scare ride is like the thing that matters and like and you're trying to take this project out to marketplace and like people are making decisions based on like whatever market research they've done this is like a very different kind of situation.

2:16:28And so I'm trying to really like find partners very early on and then like ask a lot of questions and build something from the ground up with them. So I feel like there's a studio buy-in on every single major decision and that's all essentially documented. Yeah.

2:16:43Sean Fennessey:It's really interesting. You have to be an anthropologist and a data scientist in order to be a director now. Yeah. But that's filmmaking and art making is always a reflection of the time. You know, I think for me, I had a big revelation. I took a Renaissance art class in college that I rarely showed up for. But I just like, there was this thing where like, you kept like showing these like great paintings of the Western canon. And then you realize that like, it's all Sponcon for the church and the king. It's like the entirety of like, what we think of as like, you know Shakespeare was Sponcon for you know Queen Elizabeth yes who can afford to pay these artists to make something exactly and they're always they're trying to figure out how do I do there's this amazing painting Las Meninas by Velasquez and like this was like learning about this painting and it's like well this is like this is like a super critical painting of the court like this is a painting where he's like he's like really like giving the middle finger to to the court and to the king and you know and and then but like he paid for it you know And so I was like, okay, this is just the game.

2:17:52This has been the game since the beginning of time. It's always going to be the game. You've always had to figure stuff out about art that has nothing to do with art, especially if you're working in any sort of a bigger commercial system. And then hopefully that experience feeds back into the work.

2:18:08Sean Fennessey:Yeah. As I've been thinking about your movies, I did feel there was something really interesting and convulsive about Pipeline that I liked because it felt like more of a stick-up and less of a smuggle. And I think that your other movies are kind of smuggles. And there's like a difference in kind of like how, you can't get away with a lot of stick-ups. You know, it's like you might get shot. And a smuggle is a different venture, you know? It's funny though, because I think that I really do feel like Faces of Death is a bit of both. But I think it is working inside of a genre that I think is just the ways that you are fulfilling those genre expectations are inherently kind of like they're big, but they're very expected.

2:18:57There's lots of tropes that you kind of end up following. So it ends up feeling like it's more in one lane. But again, what I feel really proud about with Faces is I do hope that the movie is also in many ways a reflection on those tropes, on those tropes as they're deployed in kind of a big, you know, studio horror IP film. And that, you know, there is this question of like, why is this a structure that we kind of keep returning to and obsessing over? And so I'm hoping it's doing both. But I also know at the end of the day, I also just want people to go have fun and enjoy the ride.

2:19:38Sean Fennessey:Okay, Danny, we end every episode of the show by asking filmmakers what's the last great thing they have seen. I follow you on Letterboxd? Yes. You're logging frequently? Yes. Honestly, a real all-timer top ten for me is the Wachowskis' Speed Racer, which I think is a movie that has still not gotten its due. And I think it's a movie that it came at such a strange moment where, you know, digital tech was just getting good. And the Wachowskis were like, what if we did everything that we could even think of? And you watch this movie and there's like shots that still don't have names that I've seen nowhere else.

2:20:22And I saw a 4K restoration of that at Beyond Fest. My first time seeing it in a cinema. And it's incredible. It plays like gangbusters. it still plays like a movie from the future. It's amazing. And for those people who haven't seen it, I highly recommend seeking it out. It's a really, really, really special film that I think works on every single level.

2:20:46Sean Fennessey:Great recommendation. Congrats. Thank you so much. On the new film. Thanks for coming back. Thank you.

2:20:54Sean Fennessey:Thanks to Daniel Goldhaber. Thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on this episode. Thanks to our production support. from Lucas Cavanaugh. I mentioned we're heading to Vegas. I'm getting in the car in one hour. How long is it going to take me to get there? I don't know. You've alleged that you'll be able to be there for dinner and drinks before CinemaCon starts. I hope so. That's my plan. Yeah. I've got to see the Sony presentation at 6.30 as well. Yes. With all respect to Zach Kregger, I will be having family dinner before I fly into Las Vegas. Girl dinner? No, family dinner. I see.

2:21:29I dine with boys so boy dinner? yeah boy dinner I'll be having three boy dinner we'll have a great dinner and then I will meet you in Las Vegas

2:21:38Sean Fennessey:sounds good see you then and we'll see you back on The Big Picture at the end of this week where we'll be joined by Matt Bellany and Craig Horlbeck to talk about CinemaCon

2:22:00Thank you.