The 25 Best Movies of the Century: No. 18 - ‘Before Sunset’

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1:02written by Richard Linklater, Julie Delpy, and Ethan Hawke, and it stars Julie Delpy and Ethan Hawke. Now, Amanda, I must tell you, I very recently did a Rewatchables episode about this movie. You guys did before Sunset? We did. We did before Sunrise. I listened to Sunrise. And before Sunset. I missed Sunset. I didn't listen to it. That's great. But I did listen to the first one. I'm a fan of the Rewatchables. That's wonderful. I am as well. I have talked about this movie at great length recently. Okay. So I don't want to bore you. I want you to be in charge. Well, what did you guys learn from your rewatchables before sunset episode?

1:40I kind of just poured my heart out a little bit. Okay. And, you know, I greatly identify with both of the characters in these films. And I'm a longtime disciple of the Linklater Project. And this might just be my very favorite movie he's ever made. I think it's mine too and I think that it's notable that it's mine over before sunrise so tell me why and I rewatched both sunrise and sunset for this project just because I hadn't seen sunrise in a while and because it's a it is a deep pleasure just like to be in this world at least the first two notably I did not revisit before midnight and I have not revisited before midnight for the rewatchables or for this Maybe it's the best one and we're just too scared.

2:34We are currently in the before midnight era of our lives. But I was thinking to myself, if Before Sunrise were eligible for this project, would we pick Sunrise or Sunset? And I know that I personally would pick Sunset because I think it's both just a richer text. Um, and also a more of a cinematic and performance feat because the, the first one, which is, if you haven't seen before sunrise, I really don't know what you're doing listening to this podcast or, you know, living out in the world, but that's okay. It's about two young people, early twenties who meet on a train on the way to Vienna. And one is an American, um, Jesse played by Ethan Hawke.

3:30The other is a French woman, Celine, played by Julie Delpy. And they're thrown together on a train or they meet each other on the train and they decide to spend the night together in Vienna, walking around Vienna before Jesse has to catch his plane back to the US. And I mean, it's like a landmark film, right? And it changes and it is... One of the key independent films of the 1990s in America, yes. And it really is just two young people talking in a very specific 90s way, Linklater way, and taking all of the ideas and emotions and philosophical nonsense that is in their heads. And it's certainly in your head if you are like a hyper-educated 20-something in the 90s.

4:23and putting it into words and putting it on screen and making it very natural and, you know, memorializing not just like the connection that two people can have for like one magical moment in time, which is the setup of that movie and what's magical about it, but also kind of just like what two people talking at each other can really, really accomplish. You know, it's like it is a... How it can be cinematic to just watch people talk. And also that it can be like a real emotional connection. Like it is an achievement. It's one for the talkers. You know, there's it's not a coincidence that we love these movies.

5:00So it is professional yappers. Yeah, exactly. And people were like, more words are better. Right. So, you know, it didn't it invents this franchise. It invents language. There is something like. So they're so young and it is like, you know, first love magical moments. the way the movie ends very famously is that they don't exchange information and they agree to meet in six months on the same train platform. And, you know, if they show up, they show up. And if they don't, they don't. And you don't know. Right. So there is something like wonderfully romantic. Just like like a perfect movie. Which makes the fact that the sequel is so amazing and maybe even better like even better somehow to me um here's the thing the first film yeah has no conflict sure they okay maybe they don't always get along or see exactly eye to eye about things right but it is a wander it is a it is a long discussion yes and of two people who are learning who the other person is right and and learning who they are as well.

6:10They're like two very unsure young people in the world. Yes, figuring out who they are and being guided by the laws of attraction. Right. That's really what drives that movie. It's an amazing movie. I think it is. It's sublime. Very important to me and as I know it is to you and I think it's critical in the Ethan Hawke story. You know, even though he had been in big movies before this as a child actor, like it totally reshapes, I think, his kind of heartthrob persona. All men fell in love with Julie I don't know any straight men that don't want to have a family with Julie Delpy. She is just such an intoxicating person.

6:47The second film, though, is simply one of the great movies ever made about relationships and love. It is astounding how deep it is. And it's an incredible setup, which is that nine years later, Jesse has written a book about this night and is giving a reading in Paris at the end of the book tour and Celine shows up at Shakespeare and Co. And once again, they wander before he has to take his plane back to... But it's two people who had one magical night and then it didn't work out and it didn't come back together. And so suddenly it's people later in life, lost love, lost connections, the road not traveled, dissatisfaction with their current life.

7:41Just like this incredibly deep, so much to work with stuff that is like miraculously built in because they have the first movie. Like it's magical. It's an ingenious way of telling a story. There have been other movies that have attempted to do this kind of thing. The most famous example is probably the documentary series Seven Up, which found people every seven years caught up with them and sort of showed what their lives were. And they talked about their experiences of the world and the way that time passing can change a person and change how they see the world or how they are walking through it.

8:17But to have a narrative structure that doesn't really have to think too much about plot. And then the other thing that I think elevates this movie over the first film is, even though Hawk and Delpy clearly contributed to their characters in Before Sunrise, they are credited screenwriters on this movie. And they are both putting big parts of their real lives into these characters and the words that they are saying. And I'm not saying that that necessarily makes the movie better per se, but it makes it more meaningful to me. Because a lot of times when you're watching a movie, you're like, actors, this is a construct.

8:54This came from some guy sitting alone in a room. He had an idea. He banged it out on a typewriter. They handed it to actors on the set. They learned their lines, and then they say the lines, and then they go home. This is a way more personal form of mainstream moviemaking. And that level of emotionality, you know, Hawk famously going through a divorce during the making of this movie. So many of the things that Jesse is saying about these ideas of, like, obligation and the version of myself that I think I should be versus the version of myself that I want. it's like for him to be so close to the bone on stuff like that in a movie that would open in thousands of movie theaters is is such a fascinating like hot experience of in the same I think goes for Julie Delpy and her deep feelings of like the inability to love and not believing in love anymore and not really finding the person that makes her feel the way that she wants to feel and she feels other people may have felt about her and there's this kind of like desperation and these two people that is has always been from the moment I saw it my wife and I saw it we were not married when it came out in 2004 I think we saw it at the Angelica we'd been living in New York at that time for a few months and I remember vividly the trains you know the trains shaking at the Angelica you can always feel the subway and when the movie ended this movie's 80 minutes long I mean more than one person and screamed out like, no!

10:21Like, I don't want this to be over. Like, I can't, this can't be finished. I need to know what happens next. I need to follow these people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's such a visceral movie-going memory for me. Because everyone who was there, and obviously it was an angelic audience that we'd all seen before Sunrise, but we were so invested. Yeah. You know? It's true. It's rare to be that invested in a movie. I mean, I get it. You don't want it to be over. Though I do find, like, this is the greatest movie ending of our lifetimes, maybe. It's amazing. I rewatched it with my husband again the other night.

10:52And it was just like silent, wrapped. You know, when you're watching at home with someone else, you know, someone's got to go like do something or checking the, you know, answering a text message or whatever. And I was just like the two of us like sitting in darkness, like holding our breath through the entire last scene. There's, and it's like, it's so simple and electric and the power of Julie Delpy is palpable. but it's not ambiguous to me at least I don't know maybe you feel differently you don't want it to end because it's so magical but also unlike before sunrise I don't feel like I have any like questions about about where things are headed well did you feel that way before before midnight because the big the great reveal of before midnight if you haven't seen it I'm sorry but it's like they not only got together but they got together and stayed together and they got married and they had a family right and And I guess, I mean, I wanted that to be true after before sunset.

11:52You wanted them to consummate. I'll be honest. Like, I'm not really thinking about whether they have a family at the end of before sunset. No. In like a happy way, you know? But they allow each other to be together. Um, yes. Because you think, so, okay. Well, continue. Well, I mean, it's just, it's all right there. The baby, you're going to miss that plane. And then his smile. and it's like in that moment you know that they're gonna try to be together and I'm from rom-com training you know like I don't actually need to think about the happily ever after you know we're good but you know that and as before midnight teaches us like you don't really want to all of the time but there is like an assurance in that ending that they're in the moment there to get.

12:41There is for the most part and I think the people scream no in The Angelica not because they needed to know what happened next specifically but because they just didn't want this feeling to end. Right, right, right, right. They didn't want to know certainly the final roughly eight minutes of the movie once we get into Celine's apartment are they just teleport you to another place and I totally relate to the like I would say roughly the minute they get into the van to head back to Celine's apartment that stretch of the movie the final whatever 20 or so minutes is just insanely brilliantly written, staged, performed.

13:13It is, I'm never more locked into a movie than those sequences. I think you can say like, this movie is 18 on our list. Why is it not number one based on how rapturously we're talking about the movie? Right. It's a small film. It's a modest movie. Its aims are very discreet. I would say it nails all of them. I think just in terms of its ambition and its intimacy, like it does everything that it wants to do, it's weird i'm weird i weirdly am a little lower on it now that before midnight has come around because what it has made me do is see the ways in which their love was flawed in this movie so because they have a tumultuous marriage right and we know that a lot of the things that i can see in revisiting the film and this is you know this doesn't take away from the quality of the movie but it's my relationship to it well yeah also this is like your materialist like spreadsheet hat coming on a little bit a little bit yeah perhaps um but in this movie jesse is is desperate to sleep with selene and he is he is so horny and like so forward throughout the film and he is like that in the first film too but he is really hot for her in this movie in part because he says he hasn't been late in a really long time right and you can see that that's actually not ultimately a good motivator for making big changes in your life.

14:34And she is a person who has lost the ability to feel like she can love anymore. And so this occurrence that she allows to happen by going to Shakespeare company. Right. Is her like kind of desperate attempt. It's kind of like her last ditch effort in a way to be like, can I find the sort of romantic love that I truly seek? And it's ill fated in a way. Yeah, sort of. I mean, I think so. I mean, he did also like write a book about her, you know, so it's her. And she's like, she says she read the book twice. And I was like, it really screwed me up. And also you idealized it. So I need to come like confront.

15:11Do you believe that? See, I feel like she's just playing a game the first 60 minutes of this movie with him. Because she doesn't want to reveal herself. She's embarrassed. She's annoyed by what he did. I think the game is ungenerous. I think that she is protective to your point of she has just cut herself off from the world and is like an also intensely neurotic French person. And so is not letting any emotions come out. And I mean, like, and also like is a character like she is just, you know. Yeah, she's kooky. Batty and kooky and in the most mesmerizing, enchanting way. Yes. but so it's not until the car ride that she really that either of them actually let their guard down what does he call her?

15:57a manic depressive communist? yeah

16:03game is probably ungenerous but particularly her for failing to remember they had sex that night and then revealing and she was like this is something women do she's seeking to kind of control the temperature for the engagement. For sure. And she's trying to do that so that she can protect herself. Right. But deep down, we know that she wants something because she says she can no longer access something. And so I think what I'm saying is, this is an obvious point, and I'm sorry to belabor it, but the sourness of the third film, which is a really good movie, Yeah. has taken something away from my first experience of this movie.

16:42And that was the intention of Before Midnight. Sure. It worked. They did the thing that they meant to do. but I was so starry-eyed at the end of this movie the first time I saw it. Right. And so swept away by that feeling and despite whatever like spreadsheet king stuff you want to say or whatever like cynical stuff like I am ultimately very romantic at heart. I was also going to say but that's your high school sweetheart like absolutely coming in as well. There is there you know you contain multitudes. But so I think that it like it has made me just a little embittered about how is like is the takeaway way like none of that is real that like actually and of course it is like that's the most mature sophisticated way of thinking about it is there are no great you know subjects of sonnets and there is no true you know soulmate experience in the universe we're all we're doing the best with what we have a thing that really stuck out to me on this rewatch and i've seen this movie a bunch of times um was just was the julie delphi of it all in this movie and um i mean he he is obviously great and wonderful but this movie is centered around selene is like the one that got away quote unquote which is like a time-honored you know film music literature trope yep to the point that he has literally written a book about the one that got away.

18:04And this movie in a lot of ways is in her character and her like kookiness and her closed offness and everything that Julie Delby is doing is like, maybe not like undermining it, but forcing the Jesse character to enact, you know, interact with the real version of the one that got away, which is sort of like interesting. There's movies and then there's real life and there's like how you imagined it in your head and then like how it is. So for me, it's not that it turns sour or something. It's that I think that the movie and the construct has some idea of what happens in real life versus what happened in the movies.

18:56But then the neat trick of it is that it also then does give you like a truly romantic, like just in the movies ending, which is like what we all want. You know, like that is like why we go to the movies. So I guess I don't feel like it's taken away from me just because things, you know, real life happens in Before Midnight because real life like is sort of happening in this movie too. I mean, they're both kind of losers, you know? It's an interesting way to think about it. Like I think that this movie does a really good job of showing that, one person can be many things. In the case of Jesse, he is a successful novelist.

19:35He wrote a book. It got published. He's on a book tour in Europe. Right. That's pretty good. In 2004, though. Sure. I mean, you know, a different scene, but yeah. I mean, you know, no judgment on the publishing industry in 2025. But he did what he set out to do, which is to be a writer, and he published a novel. He's also... seemingly a bad husband. Yeah. And has like real classic like Texas horndog instincts. Sure. At least around this woman. Yeah. He's also clearly like a very sincere father. Mm-hmm. He might be a bad writer. Yeah. That's in play. Yes. But I think he's also a pretty sophisticated thinker about the experience of life.

20:27Well, yeah. And both of those things can be true. And so he's just, he's a full person. He's not, and the exact same thing is true of Selene. Selene is incredibly nervy. She is a little bit emotionally distant at this stage of her life. She's also wildly empathetic and thinks of the world and people beyond herself. Right. She's artistic and creative. Principaled. And she's ethical. Yeah. And she's also like kind of a pain in the ass and a little bit nuts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's morose and depressive and she's batty. Right. And yet, when I look at them, I'm like, these are the ideal partners.

21:11Like these are, this is like, this is the masculine and feminine ideal. And it does, it results in, like you said, I thought you put that perfectly. It's just like, it still gives you the perfect movie magic ending. Even though when you're watching the movie, I'm like, this bitch is crazy. like you know and i'm like jesse is like he's got to get out of his own head this is pathetic yeah um and i think that that makes them relatable and also perfect and the kind of like pedestalling that we like to do with movie stars and with great characters like this like it all applies and it's also done really really in a really sophisticated way filmmaking wise where lots of long takes long walk and talks there are walk and talks in the first film but there's much more cutting right it doesn't feel like this it feels much more documentary style in this movie to me um and i don't know it feels it honestly feels like they're having a conversation that's the thing that i take away from this is it does not feel performed it feels like they are just saying what's on their mind and that idea that what's in their lives was pumped into the dialogue of the films right makes me feel like i'm watching their podcast yeah and i love it sure but in paris I mean, because that's the other thing.

22:18On the streets of Paris. It's literally just... Should we do that? Should we relocate the pod to the streets of Paris? I would love to. I know you would. It would be great. But I mean, yes, it's just international landmarks pop up in the background of literally like half the scenes. It's a miracle. It's really very special. Yeah. He's like, oh, Notre Dame. Yeah. Well, they get on a bateau mouche. Yeah. And she's like, oh, I've never done this before. It's been a long time since I've been in Paris. Yeah. You're going soon. I am, yeah. When are you gone? End of August, right before I go to the Venice Film Festival.

22:51That's very exciting. I know. I'm really, really quite excited. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Life is all about choices. For example, what happens when you show up at the movies and you're not totally sure what you want to see? Maybe Final Destination Bloodlines. Maybe Lilo and Stitch. You've got to make a choice. At State Farm, their goal is to help you make decisions that you feel good about. That's why with the State Farm Personal Price Plan, you can choose the right amount of coverage to help create a competitive price. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan.

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23:41Oh man! ...zu...

24:03Do you have road not taken thoughts? Do you mean romantically or? I don't think so. Not really. it's real dumb energy everything i've done is correct i was just trying to think about like i guess there's like like one other person like i could have married but like then i would be like i don't know i don't know that would that would be a bad scene and i might live somewhere that i don't want to offend anyone listening but like i don't know like it's wow your ex is listening to this show it's pretty wild no i meant like the people wherever other people live i think i would be living and I would be like a little more trad wife you know Cobb County Georgia no no no okay um absolutely never you don't go to Georgia next week I know yeah yeah and you will be staying in Cobb County because you love it and you love the people there not the case I'll be staying near Truist Park uh watching the New York Mets right combat the Atlanta Braves do you have any road not tickets no I I dated a couple people in a very short interim time before my wife and I got back together.

25:08But no, I was never really invested in anything else besides that. I mean, professionally, I probably have like a thousand. Yeah, well, sure. Like it's really, this is a real one in a million where I landed in my life. So in that respect. With my personal life, no. I mean, have kids, not have kids. That's like another example. That's an element of this movie is that Hawk having a child, his character, Jesse, having a child makes him feel confined to this life that he's chosen, which is a crazy thing to say out loud because he, of course, has two children with a woman who he's no longer married to.

25:50I may also argue that just in the context of the character, like, don't say it out loud, even if you feel that way. That's what it is. Yeah. Is that both characters keep saying things out loud that you're not supposed to say. Yeah. Which is how a movie works. It is, but somehow this is better. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. I don't know why it's better. Is it better writing? Is it better performance? I think it's both. Is it these movies came to us at the right time in our lives? I guess so. We're like 10 years behind them every single time. Which I think is helpful. I remember that, I know, I told my dad that Before Sunset was the next one.

26:25He audibly groaned. I guess it's not Barry Levinson's 10 men. Sorry, Dad. 10 men. We talked about this with Bill on the Before Pods. And, you know, Bill is roughly the same age as Hawk. And I think Linklater is a little older than him. But he was watching these movies as these things were happening to him. Right.

26:49And I think he, like, related to Jesse. Yeah. But sometimes it can be, like, too close. Whereas, like, it was easier for me to be, like, idealize who that person was. You know, it's like when you meet, like, an older kid in school and you're like, how does that kid know how to do all that stuff? Right, right, right. and do I want to do it that way or can this happen but when you get older than these people these characters and they stay this age forever yeah you're like why is he such a loser I didn't think he was a loser in 2004 I don't think or loserish yeah I don't think I really did either and well I think I probably thought of him more in the in the storied Ethan Hawke tradition of of Troy and you know just like hot losers you know and where like being a loser is like part of the especially like in the 90s you know not like totally having your act together as part of the charm yeah i never could i yeah no it's just not my thing yeah yeah and like ultimately it's not my thing but like if he worked that appeal and so you can see it but now he's just a loser is that i saw before midnight like right when zach and i first got together so that's really like well that like won't happen you know That's like, they made some bad choices.

28:06Yeah. But I have not seen it since. So, I don't know. I guess it does happen. I gotta go back to Before Midnight. What if we watch it and we're like, oh, it should have been Before Midnight? Well, let's talk about the Linklater movies that we didn't pick. Because it's pretty safe to say there was always going to be a Linklater movie on this list. you know his probably his most iconic films to this show are this trilogy and Dazed and Confused so Dazed and Confused obviously not eligible right but then you look in the 2000s and this is an interesting time to be talking about him because he got two movies coming out this year let's just go through his movies why not Waking Life Tape School of Rock Before Sunset Bad News Bears Scanner Darkly Fast Food Nation Me and Orson Welles Bernie Before Midnight Boyhood Everybody Wants Some, Last Flag Flying, Where'd You Go Bernadette, Apollo 10 and a Half, and Hitman.

28:59Now he's been incredibly active in this time. He's made almost 20 movies in this century. And some of them are just clear like misses, you know, like didn't totally turn out the way that they, Fast Food Nation, Me and Orson Welles. Those movies have things to recommend about them, but they're not in the upper echelon. School of Rock is his biggest hit. Okay. And I think it's probably the movie that he is best known for in The Generation Below Us. Mm-hmm. It was recently recommended to me that I show Knox School of Rock and that that movie really does hit with the children. Makes a ton of sense given your son's musical gifts.

29:35Well, oh, thank you. That's very kind. But just also that it is for people younger than us. It matters. As in small children. Yes. It very much matters. And I like it perfectly fine. Boyhood's the most acclaimed movie that has made this century. I wasn't really going to make a bid for Boyhood, though I know I like it a lot more than you do. Yeah. I haven't revisited it in a while, but I have a similar feeling when I watch that movie is what I feel when I watch Before Sunset, which is that this feels very real to me. Well, sure. I mean, it's a similar undertaking in that it is an experiment with how to demonstrate time and someone's life and maturing like overtime on film.

30:23And, you know, the project with Boyhood was that they just, they filmed it every year and released it all at once versus before the before trilogy, which they're doing it every nine years. But same idea. I just think that the before trilogy turned out better. You know, I just... Is there any other movie in that run? Everybody wants them. I think that that's the one that you like annotated on the list because you you had a phase where we had a list and then you were just playing devil's advocate. Yeah. And your devil's advocate was everybody wants them. I would never say I like everybody wants them more than before sunset.