The 25 Best Movies of the Century: No. 23 - ‘Something’s Gotta Give’

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1:02gotta give okay i uh i had a very high usage rate on monday's episode of this podcast and so it is it is time for for jesus to take the wheel jesus amanda yeah this is a huge moment here for you we're citing 25 perfect movies from this century this is the nancy myers choice this is the nancy myers choice and i think this is also the romantic comedy choice i well it's a bit of a spoiler alert, but yes. Well, I mean, you never know. I've been wondering if we should be citing like, this is the last time you'll see this person or this kind of movie as we go down the list. That would require like doing a lot of spreadsheet work, I suppose.

1:42And that would also require being fixed to our picks, which ladies and gentlemen, we've gone off script for the first time. We have. We weren't sure. We weren't sure. We weren't sure about what was originally in 20, the 23 spot. We were sure about Something's Gotta Give. Yes. This was never not going to be on the list. Right. It did get bumped down a spot, but that's okay. Not really a qualitative choice. Yeah, I'm not really, I'm not that worried about the difference between 23 and 22. So this is the Nancy Meyers movie. This to me is the only Nancy Meyers movie that would be eligible for the list.

2:17I personally have a very strong affection for The Intern. I know you like it, but don't love it in the same way that I do, I think this is ultimately better. I mean, this is better. And this is also in the Nancy Meyers arc. This is the movie that catapults her, that kind of solidifies what it means to be a Nancy Meyers movie. The Intern's very good. Obviously stars your Anne Hathaway, your beloved, beloved Anne Hathaway. And my Robert De Niro. My beloved, beloved Robert De Niro. Sure, who's just like bumbling around and is like, I'm an intern. and then like you've just summed up the film falls in love with the masseuse.

2:57Played by Rene Russo. I know. Who among us. Yeah, rude to Rene Russo respectfully. It's good. I do also like that The Intern is basically like a sequel to Baby Boom which is a 80s movie written by Nancy Meyers directed by her then husband Charles Shire also starring Diane Keaton. I like it but it's this is a self-contained masterpiece. So this movie, like Baby Boom, like The Intern, does circle this idea that we make a lot of hay of on the show, which is can women have it all? Yeah. You know, not just what do women want, which is a question that she asked a few films prior to this, but can women have a career?

3:41Mm-hmm. Personal and private success. Wealth. A family. Mm-hmm. And love. And life experience. Can they be over 50 years old? And sex. And sex. Yeah. All of those things. This movie maybe most acutely zeros in on life after 50 for a woman. Now, I will make the case, perhaps unsurprisingly, that this is one of the most sophisticated movies about life after 50 for a man. And I'd like to explore it with you, but I don't want that to be the primary driver of the conversation. I think that's true. And that is what is why this movie makes the list and the others don't is because all of the characters.

4:27Well, at least the main two, Diane Keaton and Jack Nicholson are fully realized. They are also played by Diane Keaton and Jack Nicholson and just two lights out performances. You have Hollywood icons in their later stages of life, just really getting to be those people. So I agree with you. Then you have Keanu Reeves in a supporting role, which just takes my breath away every single time. Yes. I have some thoughts about his character, who I will call Keanu ex machina for the remainder of this podcast. Yeah, of course. But that's important. It is. You know? It is. And the classic, who's she going to choose?

5:07Who's better for her? The Ralph Bellamy of the film. Yeah, exactly. Or the Aiden, if you will. Sure. Yeah, a contemporaneous reference. Got it, got it. so I agree it's really good about Jack Nicholson's character it's Keanu and Amanda Peet's character Marin and Frances McDormand's character are less baked but it is also Keanu Reeves Amanda Peet and Frances McDormand absolutely three times Oscar winner tremendous screen presences all three of them just there to give you know like vague academic dissertations about the woman's experience special stuff yeah I think this movie is so successful because it feels so closely modeled on a strong personal point of view.

5:52Yeah. Was this movie made after she and Shire broke up? I believe so. So, I mean, it feels like a real post-divorce movie, a real kind of second half of my life, who am I and what was my life about. I think also, you know, you mentioned Keaton and Nicholson's performances. I think it's that perfect meeting of performance and persona, that they both have these incredibly strong screen personas. Jack has this kind of Loosh you know Philandering you know Eternally young Man child you know like that's something That we think of when we see him kind of Making mischief at the academy awards Or you know being a maniac in movies And Diane Keaton of course is this kind of like Anxious Brilliant kind of Eccentric Pop fizz pop personality Who like could break at any moment But also could like sweep you off your feet at any moment, you know, kind of riffing on Annie Hall and everything that she embodied in that movie.

6:49And they're not like changing it. They're embracing it, making it work at a different phase of their life. It's also notable that, you know, for Nicholson, this is his first movie after about Schmidt, which was kind of like his rejection of the Jack persona. Right. And you can feel him like jacking very hard in this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Diane Keaton, you know, she has First Wives Club, which is this huge success in the mid-90s. And then what was her career really like in the late 90s and early 2000s? She works with Shire and Myers in Father of the Bride and Father of the Bride 2. Right. Playing the number two, though, really, to Steve Martin.

7:28Yes, absolutely. But, well, that's not fair. She's one of the two pregnant people in Father of the Bride Part 2. That's true. You're right. She has a bigger role. She does the iconic workout scene with Martin Short, which is all I could think about throughout two pregnancies. That's true. Okay. That was all you could think about? Anytime I tried to do a workout, I was just like, and I didn't look as good as those people. Speaking of, you know, pregnant women or non-pregnant women just wearing bumps. Did we explore on our Nancy Meyers episode how old she was when she was pregnant with that child?

7:58Do we know? So I think she's probably like mid-40s because there's a crucial part of Father of the Bride, the original, when he's imagining that it's the tiny little Annie telling him he's getting married. You know, Dad, I'm getting married. And it's like Diane Keaton says that she was this old. She was 22 when she had the... Right. Yeah. That made her much younger. Exactly. So she could be like 45, 46. Okay. It's possible. I mean, in the late 90s, at this stage of her career, it's really interesting. Because Father of the Bride Part 2 is 95. That's a big hit. Obviously, the Father of the Bride movie was a big hit.

8:38Right. First Wives Club is massive. Then she's in Marvin's Room, which is kind of like an Oscar bid with Leo and De Niro. Yeah, yeah. Really a hallowed cast, but not really a big success. Yeah. Meryl Streep's in that too, right? Marvin's Room. I believe she is. I think so. Yeah, she is. on the poster Meryl Streep and Diane Keaton basically hugging Leo in 1987 she's in a movie called The Only Thrill which is directed by Peter Masterson and then doesn't make a movie for three years makes The Other Sister and then she directs Hanging Up which is written by Nora and Delia Efron right then Town and Country in 2001 Famous Bomb and I'll come back to the importance of Town and Country momentarily Saw both of those in the theaters, by the way.

9:27Town and Country should have been amazing. Yeah. Warren Beatty, Diane Keaton, Andy McDowell, and Gary Shandling from a script by Buck Henry. It's a terrible movie. Yeah, things just don't work out. But, and then a few years go by until something's got a gift. She's in a huge down period in her career. Probably the downest that her career has ever been on this, like, basically seven-year stretch since First Wives Club. Not that she's not making interesting movies, but not a box office star. Right. This movie is huge, though. Like, how big was, how successful was Something's Gotta Give? It made$124 million domestic, which is for a romantic comedy starring two people over 50, where, like, menopause is a punchline.

10:11Like, not in, like, we're not making fun of menopause. They're making fun of birth control. and in 2003 and this movie makes $124 million domestically even more so it's I think it's$265 worldwide crazy it's like a classic December holiday release like go take your whole family to go see the movie written and directed by a woman about a neurotic over 50s playwright wearing turtlenecks and people just ate it up what a time so we always ask a couple of questions when we're doing this so why did something's got to give make the list aside from there needing to be a nancy myers movie on the list because of how much we appreciate her on the show right well eden of the nancy myers movies i think it's the most important as we just mentioned it was absolutely like a phenomenon and what women want which was released in 2000 also made a lot of money, over 100 million domestic.

11:14But this kind of sets up the rest of the Nancy Meyers trajectory. This is why like all you degenerates have the holiday. This is why we have It's Complicated, which is basically this movie made with different Oscar winning actors. I love It's Complicated. We talked about it. I like it too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's - It's more flawed. This is the breakthrough. This I think is also so influential in terms of, I guess romantic comedies or frankly garbage women of movies about women of a certain age trying to have it all in life both thematically and just visually the actual the language of the kitchens and the overstuffed couches and the hydrangeas that are usually blue and the like expensive prepared food stores and everything that we now do I think much to Nancy Meyers's chagrin identify as like Nancy Meyer's core is like is genuinely like an auteurist cinematic vision.

12:17I, it is, it is so specific and so many people have failed to recreate it or tried to make a lot of money off of it. I'm like looking at you, Crate and Barrel. Like it is truly influential. I completely agree. I mean, it is visually thematically recurring. That is a, That is a key part of the auteur theory is that you are telling a certain kind of story with a certain kind of visual approach with a strong authorship on your stories and the story types. And she does it. I mean, you wrote here something very dramatic. Okay. Which is that this is the last great studio romantic comedy. Well, you know.

12:52This is a very strong statement. It's been 22 years since this movie came out. But so, and I wrote with apologies too. And this is some real 25 for 25 spoilers here. Okay. So here are some movies that didn't make our list. Bridget Jones' Diary. Yes, it hurts me too. How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days. 13 Going on 30. 27 Dresses. The Wedding Planner. The Proposal. Forgetting Sarah Marshall. And the four other Nancy Meyers movies released in the last 25 years. I think that Something's Got Again transcends all of those. I think that you're right. Okay. I think the thing that when I watch this movie, it is very clearly born of the 30s and 40s screwball style.

13:32It's just shifting the cast of people in their 50s and 60s and not in their late 20s and early 30s. It uses a lot of the similar framework that you would find in Philadelphia Story or in Bringing a Baby or in His Girl Friday or in all of those classics. We know Nancy Meyers has a huge admiration for those movies and is kind of like echoing them throughout her career. I think because of that, it works really well as homage and really well as also a contemporary story. Jack Nicholson's character is a hip-hop label owner. Diane Keaton is an aging playwright of some renown. You know, the Hamptons Home, or is it the Hamptons?

14:10It is. The Hamptons Home feels very early aughts to me. It's sort of like before the Hamptons got completely out of control and was still like a wealthy person's enclave. The address is given as Sagaponak. The exteriors were shot in a home in Southampton. The interiors were all designed. They're all sets. By her. Well, yes. By her and her set decorator. Who's the set decorator. But Nancy, you know, oversees everything. She yeses every fabric. Okay. So one of the things that I like about this movie is it is, I don't even know if it's It is clearly a wedding, but I don't know if it's a communicated love letter slash indictment of Warren Beatty.

14:53Yeah. Diane Keaton worked with Warren Beatty two years prior in town and country. Nancy Myers, of course, is familiar with Warren Beatty and admires his work. And the Jack Nicholson character seems like Jack. Yeah. But is in fact Warren. Almost literally Warren. the women that are cited as the famous people that the Jack Nicholson character dated or may have dated in the past, Joan Collins, Diane Sawyer, former paramours of Warren Beatty, the lifelong bachelor, the escape artist, as he's called in the movie, is very clearly modeled on, and the story is clearly modeled on, Annette Bening, kind of like a successful artist in her own right, taming right taming the Warren Beatty figure in the world the fun part about this is that Jack Nicholson and Warren Beatty are like best friends so this is like if I made a movie about Chris yeah where I played Chris which obviously we all know would be impossible but if that were to happen and I was exploring all the Chris-isms and how Chris became Chris and how Chris was tamed would you want to see that movie?

15:58yeah of course they she does this she does this a lot like she loves old Hollywood Irreconcilable Differences which is the hardest to see of the Nancy Meyers movie is just the Peter Bogdanovich Polly Platt breakup but with ridiculous performances and also Drew Perrymore as a child suing for divorce which then happened later for like what's it called? Emancipation. Emancipation, right? Child divorce from your parents which she then later pursued. In real life. Yeah, so there, you know Nancy Meyers has a spidey sense. She knows what's going on in the world and she likes to put it into her movies, including also, by the way, the Erica Berry character, which is just Nancy Meyers written into...

16:43She's a playwright instead of a filmmaker. Do you think this movie is saying that Nancy Meyers wants to marry Warren Beatty? No, I don't. I think this movie is saying that Nancy Meyers did a lot of work after divorcing her husband and co-writer and director and really likes, you know, nice overstuffed couches and is trying to figure out how to be less uptight and open herself up to life.

17:12I feel like this is a movie that could only happen in this specific period of time, which is one thing that I like about it. I think that the figure of like the old man dating the young woman is culturally now would be perceived as more of a creep fest. And in this movie, the idea of like, oh yeah, you dated my daughter and oh, you didn't sleep with her, but it's okay. Even though she's like literally astride him in the first 10 minutes of the movie. It's just one of those like could not have happened at any time after it. And so it's in a way kind of like a last remnant of this era of Hollywood.

17:48Right. You know, where like, wasn't it cool that Warren Beatty was bagging every chick in Hollywood until 1998 or whatever and he decided to settle down and have children. Yeah. I mean, I think it's still happening. It's definitely still happening. Yeah, you wouldn't get the same New York Magazine piece called The Escape Artist. It wouldn't be like, isn't this cute? Sure. How he decided to date a woman who's within 12 years of his age. You do, however, get plenty of Erica Berries dating the local Hamptons doctor. So this, you know, the woman of a certain age dating a handsome younger man who's just like really, really hot for her and she doesn't understand it.

18:25is now very, very common and perhaps overdone in... You think she invented this trick? I don't think she invented it. It seems close. But it is... You see it everywhere. It's a major, major part of the Garbage Women canon. And this is a really powerful one. Because every time I watch it, I'm like, oh, should she choose Keanu? I want to get to that. That's something I'd like to explore with you. I think that this movie... forgive me for this, but kind of pre-Sage's, like, it's a twist on the MILF thing, which really took off post-American Pie, which is 1999. But the, like, young man hot for older woman, who's still a babe and still looks like Diane Keaton.

19:11You know, Diane Keaton famously has a nude scene in this movie, as does kind of, sort of Jack Nicholson who shows his ass. Well, I think it's a double, but that's okay. You think Jack is a double or Diane Keaton? No, I think Diane is, but that's okay. There's some cutting when I was watching it this time, but listen, no judgment. Were you freeze-framing? No, I was just, I was watching the camera work as I do. I see. As you do. Yes. You're well known to watch the camera work. Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know that. I thought that that was... I could be wrong. I mean, you definitely see her in bra and underwear, like undressed.

19:43But I think like that moment, it seems like there's a little bit of cutting and someone with a wig. I could be wrong. The movie has just a great relationship to sex. Yeah. Like it's very... I've seen the movie get derided as sitcom-y at times, but I feel like sitcoms are not, can't get into this area, can't get into the lane of like, this epiphanic physical experience that an older woman is having. Never see stuff like that on TV. And also, that it is like, unusually physical for a movie like this. It's the one thing that all those 30s and 40s movies are all allusions to. Right. These kinds of acts.

20:20But like, he's literally going down on her. They're literally in bed together. Right. And it is way more normalized then than it would be now. Like, I'm trying to think, has there been a movie with, like, two 50-somethings in bed together in recent years? Even we were just talking about Black Bag recently on the show. There's something kind of, like, steamy but chaste about the relationship in Black Bag. Right, right, right. I'm trying to think. Even in Something's Gotta Give, they are playing it for comedy. Totally. There is the great moment where they have to stop at the beginning of the sex scene in order to check his blood pressure.

20:59And then instead of like a bra being thrown in the air, you get the shot of like the what's it? What is the strap? Yeah, the strap from the blood pressure strap, like being thrown. So they are they're making hay of it. And there is something about the fact like, oh, like winking. Oh, ho, ho. Like we're watching two 50 year olds have sex that tips it towards comedy rather than steaminess. you know but they do make a joke about menopause they do you know it's they are undressed for a lot of the movie where are you out on menopause these days I'm not there which I'm really happy to to share with everyone that's great so in general what do you make of it you know it seems like with everything that happens to women there's not enough you know medical research and support directed that way but maybe by the time i get there you know how do you feel about the uh meta aspect of the story where erica barry who is a thinly veiled version of a nancy meyers figure is literally thinly veiling her life and her experiences in a play in the movie that she's making now normally i find when i see things like this in movies and i like them you're like Like, why are you such a multi-layered bro?

22:14Oh, no, I like meta stuff. No, of course. She's commenting on who she is. I like this as autobiography, and I think some of what elevates it from a sitcom and also from your classic, you know, like, goofy rom-com is this very experienced and also very anxious person investigating her life and how she is in the world and what she does and the consequences of what she does in real time with like a multi-million dollar budget. And I like that it still has a sense of humor about it. You know, this movie does have like a lot of speeches and as you said, characters realizing things. It's not therapy speak.

23:05Like we haven't gotten there in the world where everyone just has to be like talking to each other about like their trauma and whatever boundaries and healing. They speak like people, intelligent people who are trying to figure things out about themselves, but still sort of almost in that like playwriting, human mode. It's like, it's a human way of communicating. So I like that, but I like that you can also tell she's really thought about it. And she's thought about, you know, her relationship to her work and she's thought about why she dresses the way she does like the turtlenecks as a motif is and it's in the text like they explain it for you but it still is very clever I there's that throwaway line when they're in the kitchen and just talking about how she's always wanted to write a play that ends in Paris just like because people need romance and if I don't write it where are they going to get it real life and that's obviously like Nancy Myers communicating as well, but it's true and it's nice.

24:05And then the movie does end in Paris. And also because it's 2003, it actually ends in Paris. So that's also wonderful and remnant of a time where they just sent movie stars to Paris to film on the streets at night. Okay, let's talk about the film's legacy. You've already mentioned that the movie has earned a great debt from Crate and Barrel and J.Crew. J.Crew. Coastal Grandma Chic. I mean, that was a TikTok thing. Were you familiar with that? I was not. I'm not on TikTok, as you know. I'm not either, but then they posted it to Reels for all the old people. So we appreciate you. Yeah. So, you know, people, young women wearing just the cream-colored sweaters, the bucket hats, but like a direct visual reference to those beach walks.

24:52Do you think you'll age into that chic? I mean, I definitely already wear a lot of white jeans, you know, or like cream colored pants. I do have a bucket hat, but I don't know if I'm going to go monochrome cream with the bucket hat. That's probably not where I am. You have a bucket hat? Mm-hmm. It's pink. Like Tony Yayo. And yeah, and my son has a matching one and we wear it at the beach. Also known to wear a bucket hat. I only know rappers who wear bucket hats. Okay. Well, they had a moment like a few years ago. I don't think that I'll be going this way. I'm more of a Navy than Cream. Diane Keaton wears a bucket hat in this film?

25:33I honestly think she wears more than one. I think that there are distinct bucket hats, but yes, she does. I'll tell you something. The other 2003 thing about this movie that is related to bucket hats is the use of Crazy Town's Butterfly. The movie opens with Crazy Town, Butterfly. And then like a lot, just a montage of very 2003 looking women, like striding into clubs, bars, restaurants, hailing cabs, looking like very. Just off frame in that montage is me in before them. Little known fact. Did she know what she was doing when she dropped Crazy Town in this movie? No, absolutely not. She didn't know that this would be an incredible meme.

26:13No, I don't think so. And I like wonder if she still does. I have some concerns about her relationship to hip hop in general. Yeah, it's not great. I would not say that the parties portrayed, even fleetingly, are culturally sensitive. And, you know, Diane Keaton gives that speech in the fake Barefoot Contessa store. Do you know also that that's like, it's not the Barefoot Contessa store, but you know that the Barefoot Contessa started as a prepared food store in the Hamptons. and then she started writing cookbooks. That's Ina Garten. Yes. I did not know it started as a store. Yeah, so I think that's...

26:49Does that store still exist or no? I think she sold it at some point. I see. Okay. Or, no, I don't... But it was inspired by. Yeah. That's the vibe that we're going for. And Ina Garten, also an icon in your life. Yes, and a Hamptons icon, just to keep you on the level here. Okay, understood. Anyway, she gives a speech there about how she's not really into rap music. That is not... How many words can you rhyme with bitch, I believe, is the line of dialogue. I would not say it's the most enlightened. Not my favorite part of the movie. I think that she has a knack for characterization that looks easy, but is really hard.

27:25Setting aside the hip hop line, in general, the Erika Barry character presents as pretty modern. I think when the movie starts and Jack is in the refrigerator and Frances McDormand and Diane Keaton come home and we see his feet underneath the refrigerator, And she thinks that there's an intruder in the house. And then we quickly learn that it's her daughter's boyfriend. You think that the engine of the movie is going to be how unacceptable it is that her crazy daughter keeps dating older men. Right. And she's kind of cool with it. Yeah. She's like, not my first choice, but it's okay. Yeah. It's like a, it's a 911 punchline.

28:03It's like a, she's like, it's worse. She's dating my, he's dating my daughter. And then the hang up. Right. Yeah. Which I find to be refreshing. Like, it doesn't, like, lean on the obvious ticks of the structure. I mean... Maybe she's just had some experience in this mold. I don't know. No, it ultimately just becomes a problem about the... It's a... The Erika Barry character makes it about her, which is fine because, like, the movie's about her. But it is a little bit narcissistic also from a different vantage point. It's like, well, she doesn't really seem that worried about her daughter. She's just kind of like, well, this is...

28:37What does it say about me that I'm home at night? I hadn't thought about that, but that's a really good point. I don't know. Sometimes when you're a filmmaker or a writer, you got to write what you know. You got to bring it back to you, but that's okay. I like that. I think that the other tricky legacy of this movie is that what you cited earlier, which is that a lot of people thought they could do this. And so there is like a kind of high grade imitation that a lot of a lot of great filmmakers this century have that, you know, like Michael Bay has the Michael Bay imitators in the 2000s where you've got a lot of guys who are trying to make action movies that look like Michael Bay movies.