The Adam Sandler Hall of Fame and ‘Jay Kelly’ With Noah Baumbach!

28:02I feel like it's him performing Humanity which he doesn't really have which is like it's a funny idea it's a funny idea you're right that it doesn't always click like I can see on the page I can see it 100 % like you know and you see the signposts in the dialogue and in what they were going for and I'm just like this didn't really land and I don't know whether that's the Clooney performance I don't know whether it's that you know the marrying of tones because there is there are a few scenes that are more dark Baumbach family confrontations there's a great family therapy scene Josh Hamilton is unbelievable in this movie it's just always so nice when you see Josh Hamilton pop up in any film but in a Baumbach film and then the scene in the woods also with the Riley Keough character well she's got some bracing dialogue which Clooney is like running towards very Michael Clayton-esque also and he's not he's not one of our great movie star runners, which is also very funny.

29:03And you're reminded of that. But I, you know, I was taken back to the Michael Clayton of it all. Um, and I mean, that scene is, that scene is maybe slightly more broadly written than a typical Baumbach, you know, than the, than the really gnarly parts of Squid and the Whale, but it's tough and it's true and it's, it's direct and straightforward. And I was like, I understand the tension here. I understand the stakes. You know, and when she says to him, like, I'll be like, I'll have a good life, just not with you. I mean, that's some brutal stuff. Yeah, I think there's a handful of lines in this movie that are really, really elegant, clean daggers.

29:42Like when Laura Dern's character is getting ready to leave the train because her colleague's cat has eaten a screw, which is a funny detail. before she leaves she says to Ron Sandler's character we're not to him what he is to us you know in my life I've been in the presence of like some extremely famous and successful people and this is something to think about like you people who are incredibly successful they do kind of exit the realm of normality and I think the movie has some like really it does have some observational comedy but a lot of it is sharp But it's not all, it's not, I'm not trying to say it's, you know, a magical five out of five masterpiece.

30:27So isn't that funny is the thing. It's more like chuckle funny as opposed to like, oh, that's clever. Or how do you feel about Noah Baumbach being in like his late style period? I don't mind sentimental Noah Baumbach. Like I was up here yelling at you about Francis Ha. No, I was yelling at you. That was your choice. No, no. And you made it. And there was an episode coming out on December 31st. Your choice was Lady Bird at all costs. I really, I can't get into this with you. But we love Francis Ha. I'm so angry. I actually, well, I'll save it. I'll save what I was going to say for another episode.

31:09At another time when you and I are even happier together. When we're doing even better than we are right now. And I think.

31:20I'm so tired. You only have 11 more episodes this month. I know, and also just like, just like waiting around all day for you to be done with your stupid Zoom meetings. I have a lot to do. Get your shit done. Like you actually don't. Just hang up the Zoom call. You don't have to talk to these people. No, I'm needed. I'm needed. This is, well, that's why you relate to the Adam Sandler character. They don't need you on the Zoom. I know. Go live your life. I know. I wish I could. I wish I could. I'm just trying to keep everything on its feet. You wouldn't know about that. You wouldn't know. No, because I'm just, I'm living my own life.

31:51Yes, I am Ron. I'm on the train. I'm the younger daughter, okay? That's right. Also, that scene. Yeah, Gigi and I are going to Sicily to make a movie. That's beautiful. I know, you guys love cinema. That scene also I found very effective. Yeah. Where his younger daughter shares with him after he has basically phone-tracked her to France. Yeah. That she wants to be an actress. Right. That even though she's very gifted in science and is very intelligent, that she wants to pursue a life in the arts. And Clooney is... Even though she's very intelligent, she wants to pursue a life in the arts. Come on.

32:26No, it's like that she has options. It's that she has options and that her father has done this and she doesn't have to do this, but she has a call. Yeah. Or, because she says in Let's See, and I know you always thought Jessica was the real actor, but I can do it too. So she's... Trying to prove something to him. Yeah, that's possible too. I'm sure it's a combination of both, right? But his reaction, to me, this is Clooney's best performance in the film. He's doing great work in that scene. Yes, that scene is really, really strong to me. And his kind of sadness and him immediately trying to encourage her away from it.

33:00And that forces a kind of self-recognition about what it has cost him to do this and the absence in her life. And that kind of very funny, matter-of-fact style that daughters and fathers sometimes have. literally we've just seen this like five times this year in movies but it's another really good example of that sort of thing I don't know this movie's pretty interesting it has some good scenes that's a good scene he's very good in the therapy scene yes he's very good in that scene in the woods and then I think the ending at least the cinema tribute ending let's talk about it because so the film ends and spoilers for Jay Kelly I mean it's been on Netflix for five days and I think a lot of people have seen it if they really want to.

33:47But this has been, this hit in every review when the film came out. The film ends dramatically with this tribute to Jay Kelly, which his character has been kind of moving towards in Italy throughout the entirety of the film. And finally, the film ends on him watching his life in the movies on screen and then cutting back to his reaction to watching his life in the movies. Now, I think a lot of people really like this and it sounds like you really liked it. I did. I was a little bit more mixed on it. Can I tell you why? Yeah, go ahead. It was kind of a reminder of the mixed nature of George Clooney's career.

34:16But I thought that was a clever part of that. Like, Jay Kelly is not Brad Pitt. I know it knows that, but it kind of like disassembled the idea. Or maybe it elevated it. Maybe it made it smarter. This is not like, you know, an honorary Oscar. This is a made up award in Tuscany where they actually refashion a second glass sculptural popcorn box or something. Right. That's the prize. So it's not, I don't think it's supposed to be a tribute to the like true heights of cinema. It's just very funny to see clips from the Peacemaker and Leatherheads in the tribute reel. I mean, I agree. And I'm sure that's knowing on Bombac's part.

34:54You know, there's something funny about it not just being, you know, Traffic and Siriana and the Oceans films and the films he's really well known for. But it, and maybe that is the idea. The idea is that it was like, and for what? For five iconic movies. Right. Five movies people really like. Five movies that are cool. Five movies that bombed. And five movies you've forgotten about. And then that's your life. Yeah. And I guess that's interesting. I'm not sure if it quite like, it didn't hit home as hard for me personally. I mean, to me, it was an illustration of the, like, when I look at you, I see my life because you remember all of those points.

35:38And it's, you know, it's an argument against the film, Jay Kelly, in a lot of ways that that just you could have just shown that montage. And I was like, oh, great. I got it. You know, sort of. Yeah. Yeah. And I was just thinking about the ending of Babylon, which is like, you know, maybe a similar like, oh. Also shot by Lena Sandgren. Yeah, exactly. It's like, oh, OK, like I get it. But I did find myself emotionally connected to that more than I was at any other point in the film. Rare W for montages from you. Love to hear it. And I think Clooney responding to it is, he's good in that moment and it's making me feel what I'm supposed to feel.

36:20But I'm not thinking about his relationship with Ron or even his daughters in that moment. I guess I'm thinking about. That's the whole thing though. Well, I know. This is an exercise in narcissism this whole career. Yeah. But then it cuts to what is finally playing in his tribute reel and what sets up the last line, which, you know, is good writing. Noah Baumbach and Natalie Mortimer are good at writing. is like an imagination, like an imagined memory or one last flashback of his daughters putting on the plays that they both referenced in the, earlier in the film. And listen, Yassi Salak saw this before me and pointed out the inconsistency, but it is really hard to get past that they are 18 years apart in age and that's said multiple times.

37:17Their ages are noted, like specifically in the film multiple times because he even says, I've been doing this for 35 years and she says, I'm 34 and a half. You know, it's like, it's all built in. But then they're suddenly on screen in the most emotional moment doing this play together and they're the exact same age. I don't understand. So then I got taken out of that moment too. It's messy. Yeah. It's messy. So I guess just none of the flights of fancy in it worked for me. Does the line reading connect for you at all, Sean? because when I was watching it, I wasn't overwhelmed emotionally by any stretch with the actual montage, but when Clooney actually reads the line, it kind of hit me like a truck.

37:55Honestly, no. There are other moments in the movie that do hit me, but for whatever reason, that part didn't... I think it proved its point, but didn't move me. I was much more moved by Ron. I thought that that whole discursive journey into this guy who's like, I feel like I'm doing the right thing and I feel like I'm helping and making something successful and we're doing it together. Yeah. It's just like, I've not really seen that character before. It's true. And I just really liked Sandler's performance. And I think that the J.A. Kelly thing is like, if you like the movie or don't like the movie, it's like, it'll be either a success of the design or a failure of the design where it's like, this is a guy who's not really about anything.

38:38He's just about himself. And that to do this well, you kind of have to be all about yourself at all costs doesn't make you not a human being but it makes you I think a little bit less of an engaged person and he knows it you know like there's an interesting moment early in the movie where he I guess I don't even know if this is happening in real time or if it's a flashback as I think back on it but when he's meeting with Peter in his kitchen flashback and Peter has come to him and he said he wants him to come do his last movie he wants to do two movies in a row before you know he wants to get back on track this is the man who's giving him his big break and Clooney is just like I can't do it yeah I can't do it pickles don't expire yes another great piece of writing it's great I mean it's great writing a lot of great lines in the movie yeah he knows when he's saying no to Peter that he thinks he's doing like the responsible thing yeah he's like I'm protecting my brand I'm protecting my he just he's like I can't do it it's not you know he's pretty dismissive and puts the like the the football arm out like very quickly yeah yeah which is something that We just saw another version of this where Stellan Skarsgård's character in Sentimental Value, and he goes back to talk with his former cinematographer, you know, and Sentimental Value and this movie are very much in conversation with each other, or at least incidentally in conversation with each other.

39:57You know, when he goes back and he thinks he's going to work with this longtime cinematographer, but in watching him move around his own apartment, realizes that he's gotten old and he's moving more slowly and that he is himself like this, this reminder of their age together and what they've done together. And I like both of those scenes in both of those movies, but Stellan Skarsgård's character does get to redeem himself. And I'm not sure that Jay Kelly like redeems himself at all. And I don't know that you have to do that, but if you're not going to redeem the character, I think the movie needs to be a little bit darker and meaner.

40:35You know what I agree. I mean, that is the thing where it wants to be mean about this person, but then it has Alba Rohracker coming in to talk about the power of Italy. And by the way, I thought she was very funny and great in this. She got a big, big applause in Telluride as well. Yeah, I'm very amused by it, but it has all of these silly - Yeah. It's like zany Fellini homage in the middle of an otherwise sad movie about a depressed 62-year-old multimillionaire. Yeah. Okay, cool. Jay Kelly. Academy Awards? Seems like no. It's pretty fair. Seems like, I mean, you know, obviously the film was not nominated for best.

41:13I assume it was slotted into comedy or musical in the Golden Globes. I would assume. And did not make it there. No. Clooney did get nominated. Yes, as did Sandler. And Sandler. I don't think Clooney is competitive in best actor. I could be wrong about that because he is a huge star and is an avatar of Hollywood with greatness, but the movie seems to have had a mixed reception thus far. He was on the New Heights podcast, so. Right. Absolutely. For sure. Listen to that. I just watched him do a clip about how he never fights with his wife. And then Travis Kelsey confirms that he also doesn't fight with Taylor Swift.

41:54How nice. How believable. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure these guys are really happy.

42:04Sandler. Yeah. I love Adam Sandler. Sandler is running into the one battle buzzsaw. Yeah. In terms of the awards race. I think after he was not nominated for Uncut Gems, there became this newfound awareness. I remember he gave that incredible Independent Film Awards, Spirit Awards speech. And he was in Hustle, and people really liked Hustle. And obviously he's had a tremendous number of huge comedy hits, but also in recent years, like some dramatic performances that people, that have gotten good notice. And so I definitely thought in like January when we were talking about the most anticipated movies of the year, I was like, this just kind of seems like it's the Sandler Oscar written all over it.

42:44We also thought that this was going to be, you know, Baumbach finally makes his movie about Hollywood like Netflix, gives the people what they want. And then, you know, 2025 happened. It sure did. And then Frankenstein took its spot. Frankenstein or Nouvelle Vogue? Well, for now. I mean, Trangrians is the movie that has probably slid into the J. Kelly spot. That's not, it's not done with. We got a long time to talk about what's going to happen over the next couple of months. But I'm curious about the Sandler thing. I do think he will be nominated for an Academy Award. You do? I do. I do. I don't think he will win because there's two one battle performers in there.

43:22Stellan Skarsgård is in there. Paul Meskel is in there. There's a number of strong competitive names in the mix. But I don't know. We'll see. We'll see what he does. He's already done an event with Timothee Chalamet. Yeah. You know, probably more events to come. Sandler is very charming in these atmospheres. I've done stuff like this with him. I did a couple things with him during Uncut Gems. And he's just like magic. Like if there's just like a dead air moment, he's like, I got this. You know, he just is really, really good at campaigning and meeting people. Was it last year's Oscars that he also saved?

43:52Yeah, I think not saved, but he was one of the major highlights just in the audience being like, Chalamet! You know? Yes, yes. Wherever he goes. So his career. Do you remember the first time that you saw him? Absolutely. A Hanukkah song. Oh, yeah. Okay. The video or on SNL? Probably. Well, I think it's probably the first time I heard him. Because you better believe that played on the radio. Yeah. But then I must have gotten like... Huge Z100 hit. Sure. But I must have gotten like the long cut because like drink your gin and tonica and smoke your Marijuanica is, you know, engraved in my head. Yeah, yeah.

44:31That was on the second album. That was not on the first album, right? First albums, they're all going to laugh at you, which I probably listened to 48 ,000 times. Yeah. So I... Tom Cruise isn't, but I heard his agent is.

44:53He was on remote control on MTV in the 80s. from 87 to 90. I definitely watched Remote Control. Okay. He was like stud boy. He was like the Vanna White of that show in some way, which is like a kind of trivia game show on MTV. I'm sure I saw him. I didn't really clock him on that show. Did watch a lot of MTV from like 1987 through 1989. SNL. He's on SNL from 1990 to 1995. At the time, this was a hugely derided cast that has now gone on to be like some of the most successful people in Hollywood. This is like the tail end of the Mike Myers, Dana Carvey era. And then you've got Chris Rock, Chris Farley, David Spade, Rob Schneider, Adam Sandler, you know, all of his homies, all of the people that he has still kind of kept in the mix.

45:44He debuts all of his singing gags on the show at that time. And then uses that show after he's fired off the show in 1995. him and Chris Farley were both fired off of Saturday Night Live that was the Saturday Night Dead New York Magazine cover sure starts putting out music and starts making movies 95 I mean let's is there anything we want to say about what he is before we start going through the Hall of Fame I mean I was I was speaking through like some of his success I think it's a little bit maybe undersung well just like in terms of pure box office power yeah we've forgotten about it because he's been making Netflix movies for the last 10 years you know the western that he made what is it called like the shoot the the ridiculous six was 2015 and that was the start of this big relationship with Netflix but before that he had 21 movies that have made more than 100 million dollars at the worldwide box office so that's just 21 movies basically like in the late 90s and 2000s all the way up to 2015 there's like very few actors who can say that they are that present in movies.

46:54Now, I don't even really like most of those movies. So I'm not trying to say that that equates to quality. But the ones that you do like. I really like. Yeah. Yes. And he has a presence outside of, I mean, he can be in the worst movie and just make his voice sound a certain way. Yes. And he can make, yeah. Literally make his voice sound a certain way. I mean, he is like one of our great vocalists, both like singing, but in terms of what he can do with his voice to make you laugh. Mm-hmm. That is singular, like among living people I would say to our generation at least because we are so trained on the 90s of just him doing like you know and you just it's Pavlovian just to laugh.

47:34Yeah. I should have thought about how I could do this entire pod in his voice. So he's like obviously in this big tradition of like smart dumb stars, right? Where every character he plays is kind of an idiot but you're really rooting for him. There's, you know, Buster Keaton, Jerry Lewis, Steve Martin, And over and over again, this is like a model for building an American movie star. And I think he's very kind of underestimated because he's made so many super silly movies. And the movies at the beginning of his career just got really bad critical notices. But if you were 13 when those movies came out, they were the best movies of all time.

48:08And they're still among my favorite movies of all time. They're absolutely going into the Hall of Fame. No, I know. Frankly, we wouldn't even debate it if you said no. I would still overrule you on those facts. I think the point is though, this is like every generation has their person. Yeah. Where I wonder if a 14-year-old watched Billy Madison right now, would they like it as much as I liked it as a kid? Maybe they would. Jack, Billy Madison, thumbs up, thumbs down. Big thumbs up. Okay, that's nice to hear. Yeah. I don't know if that will continue to be true for him, but at the time, him and Jim Carrey were like gods to me.

48:40They were like gods to me. They were the funniest people in the universe. And his energy was very different from Jim Carrey's. Jim Carrey was manic. Adam Sandler was angry. And there's a difference. Adam Sandler could be silly. Jim Carrey could be silly. You know, they both could be outrageous. But one was crazy and one was mad. And they were like an interesting pairing. Now, those two guys specifically were like kind of sort of replaced by a lot of guys who were inspired by those two guys with the whole Aptovian slash Will Ferrell, Adam McKay world that came in in the 2000s. but I would suggest that his comedy in the 90s, his comedy movies are actually underrated now.

49:23Probably, though many of them have been remade and or sequels too. You know, we are leading the reappraisal, the reclaiming of the high arts of comedy. And I did also, in that Timothee Chalamet, Adam Sandler appearance, I did watch Timothee Chalamet doing his like dream big greatness is real speech about Big Daddy. So like it's I think that I think that we are taking it seriously. Well, that raises one other thing that Sandler had that Jim Carrey did not really have, which was that Sandler was kind of a heartthrob, you know, that he could very credibly be the romantic lead opposite Drew Barrymore or Jennifer Aniston in a movie.

50:06Right. And he did it over and over again. You can make the case that those are actually his much more successful movies. It's not his super silly boy comedies. It's, you know, your 50 first dates. That those are the movies that he may even be remembered for. You know, just go with it. You know, like those movies, which I don't like as much, but like when The Wedding Singer happened, that's the movie that kind of changed his career. You know, that really changed the trajectory of what kind of a star he could be. So he's just, he's just one of my faves. Yeah, he's a national treasure. He is a national treasure.

50:39I think he, and I he's another one who we were talking about this with Leo this year like I really appreciate that he's wants to work with the Safdies and wants to you know he's made some movies recently that don't work like Spaceman the Johann Renk movie that was on Netflix a couple years ago that like I didn't really care for at all and I don't think we talked about on the show but I like that he tried it you know I like that he used his powers to do something interesting that he found interesting so I also like that he wants to work with his friends in beautiful places around the world. It's true.

51:11That's a great life philosophy. Yeah. That's why we're moving this show to Tulum. No, we can't. No, they don't even. Are you excited, Jack? Yeah. Tulum's done. No. Where are we going? Hawaii. Hawaii. Yeah. Okay, now we're talking. There we go. Which island? Tulum, you can't even flush the toilet paper. They maxed out the grid. They're not respecting the people. They maxed out the grid. Yeah. I mean, and the people really overran and ruined Tulum. yes the people the american people uh primarily yeah i mean i think there's sort of like an international glitterati aspect to it you know the the the yoga the yogi uh influencers of the world i've never been to loom i've not seen it i went once and then we didn't understand that it was on a different time zone than cancun so we almost missed our flight back and that was one of the worst fights that my husband and i have ever had but let's talk about it let's talk more like what was said get into it um you want to do the hall of fame is there anything else you want to say about sandler no i think we can we can do it during the during the hall of fame will this be easy i don't think it will be challenging like i don't think there'll be like a knife fight i hope not did you know what his five most successful movies are at the box office no i didn't know that you want to guess well no i looked at it and i was like what what is hotel Transylvania.

52:32Well, his top three movies at the box office are Hotel Transylvania 3, Hotel Transylvania 2, and Hotel Transylvania. I'm glad you asked. I just watched Hotel Transylvania, the first installment, for the first time with my daughter. Oh, okay. And it's a movie about a family of monsters that owns a hotel. He plays Dracula. Oh. Dracula has a complicated relationship with his daughter, Mavis. Ah. How did you feel Adam Sandler's interpretation of Dracula worked in the context. One note but effective. Okay, yeah. So would it go in your... I want to suck your blood. Would it go in the Dracula Hall of Fame after the fact?

53:11Whose Dracula Hall? Yours that you and Rob Mahoney made for like... You know, Hotel Transylvania didn't come up. Well... Should we call Rob? Yeah. Make an addendum. The next two films in his box office list are Grown Ups and Grown Ups 2. Yes. So this is a man who's making his own IP. Spinoffs and sequels galore. so the poster for grownups is Adam Sandler and a bunch of men going on a tube down a water slide at a water park I've seen it I've seen the film no no no but you said on the Avatar podcast that you've never been like tubing you've been tubing down a river but you've never been tubing behind a boat correct but I have been tubing at a water park you have yes many times okay I just wanted to get this on the record when I was growing up there was a water park on Long Island called Splish Splash sure been to Splish Splash a great many times it's a miracle I did not contract a disease there that is actually why I was very infrequently allowed yeah at a splish box my parents read a little too many like consumer yeah it seemed like a very dangerous experience there was an incredible slide though called shotgun falls man had some good times on that slide anyway moving on Adam Sandler yeah first film going overboard he has a small role in the movie he plays a character named Shecky Moskowitz mm-hmm That's not going in.

54:29He also has a small role in the Bobcat Goldthwait movie Shakes the Clown. He plays Dink the Clown. Obviously not going in. 1993 Coneheads. Did you get the Coneheads 4K from Kino Lorber? Because they actually put one out. I have to start doing reaction shots for Alex Ross Perry for his super cut or whatever. I think he wants visuals as well as me just being like, no, I didn't. Did you get it, Sean? I didn't get it, but you know what? I'd like to own it. This is a movie that I watched on HBO all the time. It's obviously a like 14, 18 years later movie adaptation of two very famous characters that Dan Aykroyd and Jane Curtin played on Saturday Night Live.

55:09Now, one thing I want to note about this movie. I've talked about this woman before because we did a Dazed and Confused podcast. And Michelle Burke, who was in Dazed and Confused, and stars as the daughter of the Conehead. She's Connie Conehead. I want to say she's Adam. Is Adam Sandler her love interest in the movie? I can't remember for sure. He might be. Shel Burke, she had the juice. Yeah. I don't know where she is. I hope she's doing well. Okay. She had the juice. It's important to identify this and, you know, honor people's contributions to your childhood. Thank you. So that's beautiful.

55:45This film is red. It's not going in. All right. I'm okay with that. Have you seen Airheads? Not in at least 20 years. I didn't revisit it for this. Now, I did love it. I did love it. Yeah. This is a comedy about a rock band that takes a radio station hostage so that they will play their music on the radio. This is at a time when something called rock music was popular. Sure. Perhaps you've heard of it. Brendan Fraser, Steve Buscemi, and Adam Sandler is the band. Right. Joe Mantegna is the very famous disc jockey who's taken hostage. Incredibly deeply 90s experience. Super 90s movie. I loved it in the 90s.

56:22Is it good? I can't recall. Okay. But I have warm feelings about it. Sandler very funny as Pip I'm not saying it's going in I don't think it is but I'd like to do a yellow that's fine are you cool with that I'm fine with that okay now the work begins yes 1994 mixed nuts yeah what happened here I really don't know and I've Nora Ephron did and it's an absolute disaster like speaking of just tones that completely do not match what's going on yeah it just it got away from them you know sometimes that happens you just don't got it and I guess you keep coming to work every day Is J. Kelly Noah Baumbach's Mixed Nuts?

56:59I don't know if it's that disastrous. It's not that bad. No, it's not. This is a Christmas movie, Mixed Nuts. Yeah. And Sandler is like a pretty prominent role in the movie. Yeah, but it's just none of it makes any sense. And it's kind of like it's an ensemble. It is. His part is not that big. Yeah, I have one more thing to nominate in 1994. Fire away. That is when the Hanukkah song is first performed. So do you want to be putting these extra textual non-film things in? I want to be putting either the Hanukkah song or the album, which is the second studio album. The album is released in 1996. What the hell happened to me?

57:30I would do Hanukkah songs standalone. Let's put it on the list and keep talking. Okay. Because if I were putting things from the albums on, Tollbooth Willie on They're All Gonna Laugh at You is a banger. Hanukkah is the festival of lights. What about the Thanksgiving song? Did that not hit with you? No. That was the first one. Do you know how many times I've heard the Hanukkah song? at least a thousand times. I think the Thanksgiving song is now overlooked. Drink your gin and tonic and smoke your marijuana. You already did that part. Well, but now I'm singing it. That's a breakout. Okay, we'll put it on for now.

58:08Okay. I mean, you can yellow it if you want. Jack, 1994, the Hanukkah song. Green. 1995, Billy Madison. Incredibly green. Yeah. what are the best 90s movie comedies

58:28Billy Madison Happy Gilmore Tommy Boy mmhmm those are like the boy comedies do you wanna Wayne's World sure though even that is like bridge to Gen X you know not saying like it was like handed down to us yep and we were like this is cool um and let's see I'm not talking you know like it's clueless wait I mean that's what I was gonna say it's a comedy it's 95 Friday but that's but you're just talking about so Dumb and Dumber is another one that goes in this one for sure Office Space yeah though that's 99 and like edging towards hey we're all grown up now we're not being like purely stupid if you just wanna be stupid is this our draft for February uh just or January stupid holiday no 90s comedies 90s comedies I don't know has Chris seen enough oh you can start now he's got three months start checking in that could be that could be that's an interesting idea okay Billy Madison of course is a movie about the heir to a great fortune who needs to go back to school starting in first grade and reacquire his education one week at a time super normal movie very clear presence about a 26 year old man going to fourth grade it's fucking incredible it's so funny it's really like you know there was just recently a documentary about James Downey the SNL writer and he of course features in this film as the principal slash like trivia master in the fateful scene opposite Bradley Whitford in this movie and I was reminded all over again that there's like 10 or 12 moments of extremely special shit here so yes this movie is green okay in 1996 Happy Gilmore we're in a Happy Gilmore year Happy Gilmore 2 Craig Horvath's favorite movie of 2025 a film that lives on and saw the future in more ways than one about the future of golf.

1:00:24It's definitely going in. This one-two punch, obviously, big deal for Sandler. And, you know, neither of these movies were like massive box office sensations, but they were huge video store and VHS movies. Yes. And they were watched over and over again in dorm rooms and over and over again, you know, rented from video stores. And they kind of set him on his way. Now, 1996, Bulletproof. so this is probably the first time I learned the heartbreak of a movie not living up to my expectations yeah this was it I think everything was gravy before I think well I was 13 sure 13 turning 14 so Forrest Gump was everything you wanted it to be well I was 12 when that came out what the fuck did I know I was like holy shit the 70s who knew Bulletproof directed by Ernest Dickerson starring Damon Wayans and Adam Sandler as I guess like an FBI agent and a criminal who are stuck together.

1:01:19It's kind of like a cheapo Midnight Run knockoff. And Ernest Dickerson coming off of Juice, one of my favorite movies of all time. And Sandler and Wayans being two of the funniest people in the world. You know, Wayans had recently come off of In Living Color. And bless you. Thank you. And this movie's not funny. It doesn't really work. I don't know if I've seen it. Okay. It's not going in. Yeah. 1998 The Wedding Singer. Got you. Auto Green. Auto Green. I think it's still really good. I did go back and look at it a little bit. And, you know, like all of these movies, these films don't have the best directors of all time.

1:01:55You know? There's a lot of people that are very comfortable with Sandler's mode of working and a lot of his friends, as you said before, not just in front of the camera, but behind the camera. And they're not Bergman-esque in their work. Right. So there's like some rickety stuff going on in terms of the setting and the mood of the movie. Yeah, this movie should absolutely go in. And it's very funny. But this movie has always been a little annoying to me in that when you would ask men, oh, what's your favorite rom-com? They'd always be like, oh, the wedding singer. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:02:26Because Adam Sandler's in it, you know? And you haven't seen another one. So it's important to bridge it. Yeah. The romantic stuff does work, though, between him and Drew Barrymore. They have actual chemistry. You want to see them together. It does ultimately come together, you know. But your point is will take. 1998 Dirty Work. is a small role as Satan in this Norm MacDonald comedy. This is one of my favorite movies ever. We did this movie on the Rewatchables, Me and Bill. This is like a sick pod where me and Bill are just like quoting jokes from the movie. But RIP Norm MacDonald, who I love, who was a close friend of Sandler's.

1:02:55It's obviously not going in, but it's a very good cameo performance. 1998's The Waterboy. Now, this was an interesting confrontation with my taste because I don't like this movie at all. I don't think it's funny. Okay. I'm not really like a hardcore down south college football person. Yeah. I don't really. especially at this time, I didn't know that culture at all, being from New York. Yeah. The voice didn't work. The accent. But this movie is a massive hit. It's huge. And people love it. But I was on the outside on this one. Yes, yes. And I was living in the South as a, among college football fans, at least.

1:03:33I'm a reformed college football fan. So this was a big, big deal. I was very aware of it. I don't it's not one of my favorites either but culturally I think we have to at least yellow it I agree with you there's definitely a case for going in just in terms of the importance in his career because this is when he becomes like a big time movie star um my feeling about it was always like he just did Happy Gilmore it's like we did a sports comedy two years ago about a guy with incredible skill who's kind of an idiot like it just felt very repetitive and less like we all know that Happy Gilmore is the one but yeah it did make a lot more you know it just he had gotten to a point in part because of the Hanukkah song, you know, in part because of a handful of factors that like led to him getting bigger and bigger and bigger over time.

1:04:161999, Big Daddy. Green? I... Green? I don't... you don't think there's room? no I honestly haven't even gamed it out this is one of the rare ones where I'm like I'm just gonna go with the flow that's beautiful I'm Sandman yeah I know you just wanna be here with your friends I just wanna live in it I know I just wanna live in it I like Big Daddy I like Sandman going like what if we made a movie that's more grounded in the real world right not as ridiculous his performance is good some notes of drama in this movie right because of the relationship that he makes with the is it Dylan Sprouse the actor who plays Cole and Dylan that's right the twins and they're very good together seem to recall Leslie Mann being smoking hot in this movie can't remember if that's true I think that's always the way I like it I like it okay I don't love it do you like it?

1:05:10did you like it at the time? I did I mean I think I just saw it laughed I wasn't really overthinking it I was what 15 at this point so I like this one and I do feel that it's lived on I agree let's green it let's green Big Daddy okay we don't I mean we can un-green it if we have to what do you think of Jon Stewart's dramatic performance in the film did it work Jack did you see that did you see Big Daddy Jack okay alright there we go then for Jack we'll green it there you go there we go 2000 Little Nicky which one's this one this is kind of like well this is like Satan's son and oh yeah right you know come to earth and he's got the hair over his face and it's kind of like a post-limp biscuit like shit core United States energy.

1:05:57Some funny bits. It's bad. It's pretty bad. I don't feel the... I remember it now, but no, it hasn't stayed with me. Okay. Red. Redding Little Nikki. I kind of like Little Nikki, even though it's bad. Okay. 2002 Punch Drunk Love. Green. That's a green. That's a green. This is an amazing, amazing performance. Yes. Very exciting that Paul Thomas Anderson also loves all these movies that we're talking about and identified that he wanted to work with Sandler. He still loves Sandler. He talks about Sandler all the time. And like saw that the anger could be used in a different way, but that also that there like is softness and like different varieties of comedy that can be, you know, manipulated.

1:06:39It's really, really smart. And the movie is not that funny. You know, it really is like kind of a sad character study that becomes a romantic exploration of like the collision of love and anger. Sure. Like that's really his, the duality of the Sandler persona. He's not that silly. He gets to do his little dance in the supermarket, and he has some charming moments. The snack wells, yeah. Yeah. But, you know, him yelling at Philip Seymour Hoffman through the phone, intense stuff, you know? You're grabbing the front of the seat in front of you. Definitely going in, Punch Drunk Love. 2002, Mr. Deeds.

1:07:12This is a soft reboot of a Frank Capra classic starring Winona Ryder. It's quite poor. Yeah, it's a no. Okay. No, Mr. Deeds. 2002, Eight Crazy Nights. which is a kind of a riff on his Hanukkah song success. Yes. An animated movie from the mind of Adam Sandler. Now this is when you can see he's like, he's, he's become aware to the idea, to the Adam Sandler brand. Well, that he is like fully put happy Madison into, into work to expand who he's appealing to, you know, that it's not just me drinking a Miller light on a Friday with my friends in college. Like it is families. it is like he is starting to mature a little bit going into his 30s and thinking about reaching more people i think a crazy night's okay it does have the great distinction of being one of the very few hanukkah themed animated movies and he's he's made more hanukkah themed and jewish themed movies over his uh career we already have five so and if we're doing anything eight crazy nights related it'll be the hanukkah song i i hear you i'm just want to say a yellow to acknowledge the work.

1:08:22All right. 2003 Anger Management. Okay. Now, I don't love the movie. Yeah, but it's, it's iconic. It is iconic. But it is also that Jack Nicholson smile is the meme is from Anger Management, right? Uh, yes. Yeah. Yes. The zoom in. Yes. Yes. Um, yeah, this one's directed by Peter Siegel who he worked with a handful of times over the years, Sandler, and directed, you know, one of the Naked Gun movies. He directed Tommy Boy. You know, he's been at the center of some big comedy hits. And it was a huge success. I'd like to know what the box office of this movie was, actually. Where is that in the document?

1:09:02Right? This movie made$200 million worldwide. We used to live in a country, you know? Yeah. I mean, he has a few of these that we'll get to. I think, yes, because of the combination of pairing. identifying that Sandler and Nicholson are not as far apart as you would think. Okay. That their energy, that their personas as actors, you think we should be yellowing this? Yeah, I do. Okay, let's yellow it. Because we have some more stuff. It's not a movie that I love. Yeah. 50 First Dates, do you feel like, so this is another movie that people love. Yeah. I've seen it many times. Very big hit. Sure.

1:09:39It is a duplication a little bit of The Wedding Singer. I agree. And it's like a useful thought exercise. I do feel like 50 First Dates has become a reference point outside of the movie. For sure. We can yellow it. Okay, well, yellow 50 First Dates. 2004 Spanglish. This is deep red. This is a black red. I don't get this movie at all. So you, the story of the edibles and the watching Spanglish to comfort you. I wasn't a part of that. You were fine and you were asleep. Here's the story. me my wife Chris Ryan and his wife went on a you know weekend vacation to a winery in California we stayed in an inn right had a nice afternoon trying wines this is well before we had children and we could just drink all day this is before I moved to California yes you were not living in California at the time but I heard about it and had a nice really nice day you know tried some Jammies Inns you know Phoebe and Eileen loved Jammies Inns for a while there and And at the end of the day, we decided to have some edibles.

1:10:46These were chocolate edibles, not gummies. And this was, I think, might have been maybe right at the dawning of the legalization of marijuana in California. It was definitely before 2016. So it's a full decade ago. Yeah. Plus. And we just got hit fucking hard. We just got bulldozed by this chocolate. And also, weren't you staying? Did you have an adjoining room? We had adjoining. Well, it was like the bathroom, right? It was like his and... Yeah, maybe they were next door. We were close by. But we basically took the edible and then we're like, all right, see you later. We didn't hang out. We made a huge mistake.

1:11:19Right. And it hit me really hard and it hit Phoebe really hard. Yeah. And then Phoebe and Chris decided to watch Spanglish. I guess they watched the whole movie while Phoebe was tripping the light fantastic. I also always imagined her doing the Leo in Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah. I was more just like, I was asleep, but in what waltzed asleep okay i was in the fifth dimension i was like what did you find there i couldn't move any of my limbs okay i couldn't figure out why like it was paralysis but isn't incredible psychotronic energy in my mind superman you said i only recently learned that you sleep with your arms by your side yeah i do sleep like superman yeah so can but normally you can move your limbs sure you can roll over i'll sleep on my side a little bit sometime you know like like i had no I couldn't it's like the circulation in my body stopped and that is frightening you know what I mean yeah anyway uh Spanglish the James L.

1:12:14Brooks film sure built around what a 20 year run for him Taylor Leone um yeah James L. Brooks one of the great movie writers of all time kind of hit a speed bump in 2004 and it really hasn't recovered as a movie maker unfortunately he's a great mind but um this movie is just like really really sour and the Taylor Leone character is like really unfortunate. And I don't think it's, I, it's another example of like Sandler trying something and working with a really talented person. So I respect that he did it, but it didn't turn out. This episode of the big picture is brought to you by State Farm.

1:12:47Having people in your corner to help you makes all the difference. For example, I'm usually loathe to trust Sean and his movie recommendations, but after many months of him waxing rhapsodic about train dreams, I finally watched it. And I have to be honest, he was right. It was wonderful. And like those people, State Farm is there to help you feel supported by helping you choose the coverage you need. Go online at statefarm.com or use the award-winning app to get help from one of their local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. 2005, The Longest Yard? No. Yeah. Dead no. This movie did not need to be remade.

1:13:20I don't like it. It's not interesting to me. So, no. 2006, Click. Yeah, I just Googled this. and it's Adam Sandler posing with a remote control, much like my younger son almost every day. Yeah, so this is a movie about a guy who's struggling with life and meets an inventor and the inventor gives him a remote control that allows him to skip the boring parts of life. Sandler? The movie's not great. It's kind of sweet and very saccharine and has some funny stuff. He's married to Kate Beckinsale in the movie. makes sense but it's another example of him like consistently doing these Capra-esque comedies with not Capra-esque filmmakers where like the idea on paper is an interesting exploration of like the emptiness at a certain stage of life you know he's actually kind of interested in these bigger ideas but they always manifest in these goofball movies so I would say Click even though it was also a monstrous hit is not going in do you agree with that?

1:14:28No, I agree. Do you, does Alice ask to fast forward through parts of movies she doesn't like at this point? This has become a real issue in my home. We've learned how to start hiding when something is happening on screen that we don't like. We don't fast forward. You know, it's not always because of fear. It's just because there's been a - Like boredom? Yeah, or I want the next thing, or I want this part. I mean, obviously we don't do it either, but the impulse is an interesting indication of human nature. Yeah, maybe here and there, but not too often. Click made$237 million worldwide. 2006 was a different time.

1:15:02That is the seventh highest grossing movie of his career. Okay. Some people would make the case that a movie like this should go in one of these high concept movies in the mid 2000s when things were still fine in Hollywood. Right. But we've got higher live action ones. Okay. You're saving space for Rain Over Me, which is the post 9-11 Mike Binder comedy about a guy who's lost his family and is trying to reconnect. Yeah. starring Sandler and Don Cheadle. Noble Effort. Another movie that I appreciate that he tried to make this film. His performance is not bad as like a deeply depressed person who is recessed, but it's not going in.

1:15:37I think I watched this on vacation with my mother once because this was like, this was before, you know, the world at your fingertips and you couldn't travel with your Apple TV or whatever. And then you were just stuck with what was ever, what was on TV. Okay. It's really not an enjoyable experience. not going in. I have to be honest, guys. We have built Hall of Fames for living legends like Robert Redford, Paul Newman. I have never been more overwhelmed looking at a Google Doc before being like, how the fuck are we going to get this down to 10 movies? We will. We will. We'll do it. We can make decisions.

1:16:14Are you about to stump for I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry? I mean, he's got a lot of movies that are not going in. There are literally like a dozen more that I could make yellow. That's generational. That is generational. so and I'm comfortable with that I would love to have that encounter because I I don't really care as much about some of the late 2000s early 2010s movies but I know that they're very important to a lot of generations in part because of Bill and his family they fucking love those movies so we'll get to them Rain Over Me is Red I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry which I just don't think is very funny it's opposite him and Kevin James and Kevin James increasingly becomes a bigger part of his world and Adam Sandler produces a lot of Kevin James movies as well and I never found Kevin James all that funny even though you know the pride of Queens and a Mets fan and in theory somebody who I'm in league with but I'm just not I just don't think he's funny so that movie's out that's a this is a movie about where two guys need to pretend that they're a gay couple so that they can get a special dispensation in their life it's yeah it's best left in 2007 agreed on all fronts you don't mess with the Zohan yeah I was surprised by how much money this made when you when looking at the box office how much did it make well I scrolled down But this is, it made$100 million domestic,$202 million worldwide.

1:17:31This is a movie about an Israeli super soldier who wants to be a hairstylist. Yeah. And then does. That's the movie. Follow your dreams. Emmanuel Shrieky as the female lead. And at a time, right in the heart of the Entourage Times. Sure. That worked very well. You know, I remember very specifically Judd Apatow having a strong producing role in this movie. And this being kind of situated with the 40-year-old virgin, knocked-up era of films. We'll come back to Judd Apatow shortly. Yeah. This was always in the, like, super high concept, super silly realm that I never loved. But the movie was a huge hit.

1:18:13I say red. Yeah. Hard red. Jack, any problems with that? With You Don't Mess With The Zohan? Yeah. Definitely no problems on that one. Okay. Are you about to make a case for bedtime stories? You could convince me. So this is a Disney movie. Yeah. You know, and this is a very sweet movie and I assume you must have been, what, nine years old when this movie came out? Seven years old. Seven years old. It's worse when we get too old. Yeah, you don't want to hear it in that context. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's definitely not good, you know, but it's just right time, right place, right age. I think, is this the movie that Adam Shankman made right after Hairspray, I think?

1:18:48I think it is. It might have been right before Hairspray, but this is a movie about a handyman who finds out that the stories that he's telling his I think it's his nephew and his niece are true and then we see in the world that he's able to he has this like power to the power of stories yeah we're all storytellers do you see yourself as a storyteller I really don't do you think you're a good storyteller when yes like when the like when I'm in my groove you know when it's a performance I don't know we're all still waiting uh what you want to make a case for it Jack is there anything you want to say no not actually is it just a sentimental fave no it's not even specific to this movie like I'm just looking at this Google Doc and there's so many movies I've probably seen like 20 times this is your childhood yeah I get it I was uh in my mid 20s at this time so it's not as not as fertile ground for bedtime stories that's red 2009 funny people I believe this movie has made a pretty strong comeback in terms of being not just like underrated but actually quite good and even though it is still a bit long which is one of its biggest criticisms when it came out that it's one of Apatow's best movies is it his best movie?

1:20:06I don't no I don't think so some of the earlier ones are more complete you know what movie this movie reminds me of? Jay Kelly yeah but it's a little more even in tone it is it's too long but I understand what it's going for this is really good I would be fine with it as a green my instinct would be green because it's a very very good performance he and Seth Rogen are terrific together Sandler plays an established comedian who has brought on a younger comedian to help write for him and then we see kind of both sides of their lives and some of the emptiness they both have some of the things that are great about their lives big expansive cast you know some crazy stuff going on with Leslie Mann and Eric Bana in this movie you know Aubrey Plaza Jason Schwartzman Aziz like a lot of really funny people in the movie and like pretty early in the moments for all of those people yes and like the great cameo stuff at the party at the beginning with Eminem like there's a lot of really good moments in this movie and it does have like a strong it weirdly has strong critical support I don't know if it's rewatched that much I'd like to go back to it actually I guess I would yellow it but with an inclination to make it green okay grownups I mean that's the it's the fourth highest grossing or is did it gross more than grown ups do yes grown ups did outgross grown ups too wow a wicked wicked for good situation and sheesh it is the highest grossing live action human movie I would with all respect to Dracula I would say is Dracula human he was right but his soul is gone in Hotel Transylvania I mean he was he's a vampire now.

1:21:46But so, but Hotel Transylvania doesn't try to humanize him? Uh, well, there's humanizing and then there's the corporeal form. I'm talking about humanizing. Yeah. He's like a, he's a dad working on things. There you go. You know, he's kind of a Bob Ferguson. Okay. Uh, grownups would be an acknowledgement of success. Do you want that to be the representation of this guy? even in 2010 as things were starting to go deeply into franchises and the whole business was shifting and comedy was starting to go out of fashion at this point that this guy could still draw hundreds of millions of dollars at the box office just by goofing off with his buddies?

1:22:28I guess though I... 2003 is earlier. Mm-hmm. But I think I would rather that be... Anger management, you're saying? Yes, anger management as the... Let's yellow grownups and keep the conversation moving. Okay. 2011, just go with it. This is Jennifer Aniston. Yes. I know this is big for a lot of people. It's never really been huge for me. It's not for me either. Is this your favorite movie of all time, Jack? Brooklyn Decker was deeply important to me. Well, yeah, there's that. Yeah, of course. We do remember the beach sequences from the film. Yeah. And congratulations to her on all her success.

1:23:06And congratulations to Andy Roddick on all his success.

1:23:12I never thought this movie was funny but families love it and I wonder if like eight years from now me, Eileen and Alice sit down on the couch and fire up Just Go with it and we're like I know, I get it I see it all happening I guess I'm just not really in the family comedy era of my life back then so in my Hall of Fame I wouldn't put it in that's fine with me Jack and Jill is going in some other bizarro world Hall of Fame the dumbest movie alive hall of fame it's a hard no okay that's my boy do you remember this one I don't this is the one where Andy Samberg plays his son in an uncanny bit of casting oh yeah and I think Andy Samberg is getting married and his father and he have a complicated relationship yes and it's like 47 % of a good movie and never quite gets to where I wanted it to go so my instinct is to say red I think that this is going to be a red.

1:24:09Okay. Having just watched Hotel Transylvania. Yeah. Speak on it. I don't really like it that much. Okay. And while I do think it is important to his career, and it was a smart move on his part, I'm sure he gets to benefit greatly from having a producing role in these movies and then being such enormous successes. And him bringing all of his friends in to do voices and, you know, kind of leveraging all of that. Seems like a grand old time. Okay. But it doesn't need to go in the Hall of Fame. It's red. Grown Ups 2 is also red. Correct. Blended. Yeah, I saw this and maybe I went to a screening. Maybe I didn't actually see it in theaters, but I didn't have a great time.

1:24:45What do you remember about it? I remember it being not particularly culturally sensitive. I remember that as well. And I remember that there were some animals, but I don't remember if they were real or CGI'd. Yes, this is Sandler and Drew Barrymore go to South Africa and they encounter some cultural stereotypes. Yeah. But not Rosamund Pike. Very popular movie. Very successful movie. Not, what am I interested in this movie to make? Yeah, I made$127 million in 2014. Pretty incredible. Blended, not going in. Top five, he shows up very briefly as himself in the movie with a movie directed by his buddy Chris Rock, your dad's favorite movie of that year, as I recall.

1:25:29he did want it to win the Oscar. Alas, it didn't happen. 2014, Men, Women, and Children, a risible drama by Jason Reitman that I think is very well-intentioned. Very well-intentioned. Aren't they all? They are. This is a movie about how computer bad. Don't look at computer. Right. It bad. And it is bad. And the movie's ideas are not wrong. The manner in which they are delivered is quite poor. So men, women, and children will not be going in. Ansel Elkort is in this movie. I didn't remember that. It's a pretty stacked cast, as I recall. Who else is in it? Is it Catherine Keener? Jennifer Garner Rosemary DeWitt The Legend Yeah Caitlin Deaver Judy Greer Oh Timothee Chalamet's film debut Oh that's right Yeah Emma Thompson's in this movie She's the narrator Yeah Yeah Doesn't really work Not going in I like that he tried I also like that he tried The Cobbler Yeah This is yet another of the Capra-esque films that he has attempted This is the film that immediately precedes Spotlight from director Tom McCarthy.

1:26:38Sure. And he was just, you know, he had range, I would say. That's right. So it went the Cobbler, Spotlight, Stillwater? No, there's something in between those. Okay. I also recently found a Tom McCarthy novel just floating around our house. Oh, does he write books as well? I think so. I think it's the same. He also made a movie called Timmy Failure. Mistakes were made for the Disney Channel. Okay. and then Stillwater in 2021 interesting career you know the station agent and the visitor two of the best independent dramas of their time in the early 2000s spotlight terrific movie one of my favorites maybe it's a different Tom McCarthy but I've always assumed it was him because you know he has range yeah the cobbler is about a magical cobbler

1:27:31he finds a magical sewing machine is really what happens and... It's a sewing machine? Well, it's... Yeah, it's like a machine. It's a shoe machine. A shoe-making sewing machine that allows him to stitch together new shoes that he can try on and walk in other people's feet. Right, sure. See the world through their eyes. It was then that I carried you. Yeah. Well, it's not really a Christ-like story, I don't think. I don't think it's allegorically Judeo-Christian. Are you sure? I'm not entirely sure. And you know, Adam Sandler is Jewish, of course, as was Jesus. carpenters you know yeah you stitching materials together you might be onto something yeah and together we have woven the fabric of humanity Cobbler is Red yeah 2015 Pixels this is a movie about video games coming into the real world to crush people see I told you did you see this one no this is like a big action comedy I didn't see this it was very successful Jack's nodding his head no wow I remember being very poorly reviewed it did in fact make 244 million dollars directed by Chris Columbus yes starring Adam Sandler Kevin James Michelle Monaghan Peter Dinklage Josh Gad and Brian Cox Michelle Monaghan God he's so good at female co-leads yeah really love what he's up to there okay uh pixels not going in Chris Columbus apparently directing Gremlins 3 your thoughts

1:28:56yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

1:29:03what is the last thing that chris columbus directed uh the santa claus chronicles 2 i think that is what i think no it was it wasn't it the thursday murder club

1:29:18i'm sorry it's okay months three coming soon hotel transylvania 2 also 2015 not going in okay Yeah. The Ridiculous Six. Now, of course, a consequential movie. One of the most significant movies with regard to what we've been discussing this week about Netflix. Because Adam Sandler signing on to Netflix, in a way, legitimized the movie-making operation in the same way that the House of Cards TV initiative legitimized their TV operation. The Ridiculous Six was huge. Most of his movies on the service have been huge. He draws a crowd. We've been talking about what a huge commercial artist he is. and I think this movie is really unfunny and one of his least successful comedies but it was a big time when it hit and it was the first time I think it was a thing was it the first time though that it was like like a straight to streaming movie was a huge hit you know what I mean yeah I mean I'm trying to remember if there are any other like there obviously were cable movies before this right and there were prestige plays coming in the aftermath of this for Netflix, but a pure streaming play movie that you could quantifiably say had millions of viewers.

1:30:33Yeah. It could be. And in that way, it's very important. Well, so the Netflix films and older, the very first, can you name it? Yes. It's the Idris Elba film. Yes. Beasts of No Nation. Yes. And then Ridiculous 6 was second. Okay. And Beasts of No Nation was October 2015 and Ridiculous 6 was December so I think they were like here's your awards play and here's your Adam Sandler movie at once smart company man this is what I'm saying I don't think this should go in and in fact this film's existence actually pierced my soul okay but I just wanted to note that yeah 2016 The Do-Over mm-hmm I don't remember this one I don't either this is also a straight to streaming movie Do-Over no The Do-Over LA that's not what I want is this him and Chris Rock are the fathers of potentially of two kids who are getting married?

1:31:24No. This is David Spade and Adam Sandler fake their deaths in order to start their lives all over. Wow. We should do that. 2026. Do you think we'd be mourned publicly? What do you think the reaction would be? I think it depends on how we die. Dramatic boating accident on New Year's Eve. Tracy Letts and CR take over. We're going on a boat? Yeah, we're going on a boat. Oh, God, that's exciting. Yeah. I think that, you know, like they would build a Blu-ray shrine to you, you know? They would. That's beautiful. Where would it stay? Where would it exist? I don't know. I hope it's publicly available.

1:32:06I want it to be at the top of Machu Picchu. When you die, I hope that the Sean Fennessey Memorial DVD closet is available to all. 4K closet. I know. I said DVD on purpose. I know it makes you mad. See, your little nostrils are flaring. I know. Blu-rays, 4K. 4Ks. Yeah. So no do-over for me and you? No. Do you think we'll be mourned? Well, but see what happens is... I'm asking you a direct question about your legacy. Yes, I said that they're building you a little closet. But that's not the same. That's something you do out of a sense of necessity. Will men and women quietly contemplate your absence?

1:32:44Every time they make a Negroni. Yes, they will. That's beautiful. Yeah. 2016, the do-over out. That's a great legacy, honestly. Negronis? People drinking Negronis? Walt's thinking of you? Yeah. Yeah. They're already doing that right now. 2017, Sandy Wexler. This is a movie about a talent manager. Kind of like an attempt to do a dopey Woody Allen style movie that is, I thought, very unfunny. Oh, I remember this. Yeah, I didn't like it as either. So that's a no. I didn't like it either. Okay. So, you know, the Netflix movies, by and large, haven't been good, except for 2017's The Meyerowitz Stories.

1:33:16Which is wonderful. Great movie. He's really good in it. great singing dynamic stuff with Dustin Hoffman in this movie dynamic stuff with what is the actress's name Grace Van Van I'm doing it hold on hold on hold on plays his daughter Patton Grace Van Patton yes she's wonderful in this movie they're very funny together them singing together is magic a great Baumbach movie a little underrated now I feel like a little lost it was his first Netflix movie I still think of the shot of Emma Thompson that's just from out the doorway and it's Emma Thompson driving in the background the car straight into the lawn yeah really good I love this movie I think this movie is so good were we even doing the show we weren't doing the show when this movie came out it was like right around when it was starting it's great I don't know if it's like a legendary movie but I would at least yellow it yeah yellow it 2018 I believe the week of is the movie with him and Chris Rock where they are the fathers of impending bride and groom.

1:34:19Sure, and it's the week of the wedding. Yes. And it's not funny. No. Another movie that on paper, I'm like, Chris Rock and Adam Sandler are dads? Because this is your wedding role. This ends with the wedding as opposed to starting with the wedding. Tough beat. Yeah. Not like Hotel Transylvania, which starts with a wedding. Hotel Transylvania 3, no. Summer Vacation. Yeah. Where is their summer vacation? Tulum. That's why I went bad. 2019 Murder Mystery. You liked it. I chuckled. I like that they did it. Yeah. We've now entered big picture territory where we've been covering these films. I'll never forget when this trailer debuted, my husband, who does not look at the internet very much, sent it to me within 10 minutes and was like, we got to watch this opening night, baby.

1:35:07Did he call you a baby in the text? No, but it was like the same voice that he used when we went to see, oh God, what trailer was it when he was like, we gotta see that in IMAX. I can't remember. He's just like, this is really, this is the big time. Was it Zone of Interest? No, it wasn't. No, it was a trailer before Guardians of the Galaxy 3, so I don't really remember. Anyway. I liked that they did it. Huge hit. Huge hit. Also, not very good. filmed in the Mediterranean, so that was cool. Yeah. I like movies like this and I don't love this one, so I'm gonna say Murder Mysteries Red. Wasn't 2019 also the original Knives Out?

1:35:44Certainly was. Right. which is kind of blotted out by that film right yeah which was doing the detective story better and then Knives Out went to Netflix and then that's right yeah and then so did we and so did everybody else uh 2019 Uncut Gems green green green this movie rules an incredible film an incredible performance Howard Ratner a gambler who doesn't know when to quit yeah who's on a quest for greatness and a quest for success that is unattainable but that does not stem his ambition yeah and uh If you haven't seen it, you should watch it. You really should. It's really, really good. It's kind of crazy to look back and think that this movie was not recognized.

1:36:22You know, it was successful at the box office, and it was obviously like a legendary movie now. Like, it's got a huge, beyond cult classic. People love this movie. But 2019 was so competitive that it just kind of missed on a lot of the more, like, hallowed award season stuff. Right. Though it did make it into Best Picture. Did it? I think so. It was like one of the... Did it not? Or did it just get screened? I don't think it did. screen. Because he didn't get nominated. I really, well, because I had 10, but I remember that there was, it didn't. No, Uncut Jams has zero Oscars. No, it didn't. Oh, okay.

1:36:52Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Oh, right. I don't remember what I'm remembering that year. I mean, I remember being disappointed by that. No, obviously the movie, I was at the Telluride premiere of this movie and all the 65-year-olds were like, what in God's name is this? This is unacceptable, this energy in this film. We've now come to accept the Safdie energy as a more common part of our film grammar, I guess. But Uncut Gems is automatically in. 2020 Hubie Halloween. Okay. I loved it. It's not good. It's not good. But you loved it. I loved it. Yeah, you love Halloween. I love Halloween. Yeah.

1:37:24I love Halloween. I love a Halloween comedy. I mean, this is why I like a murder mystery. Yes. So I like murder mystery. And you like Hubie Halloween. That's fine. We can say Hubie Halloween is a red. Yeah. I love it. I can't wait to share it with my family. 2023 Hustle. Interesting one. I liked this. This is a good movie. It is good. It's a movie about an NBA scout who's leveraging his entire career on a foreign-born player, a European player. Yeah. And the journey that they go on together to try to bring him to the NBA. To the Philadelphia 76ers, right? That's right. Very, very good performance.

1:37:59Fun movie that kind of, with a lot of real-life NBA figures, most notably Anthony Edwards, who's very good in the movie. Yellow? Yeah, we should revisit it for sure. Murder Mystery 2 Otto Green no that's going red 2023 you are so not invited to my bat mitzvah where he plays the father I believe the father of the lead which is in fact his daughter is it Sadie Sandler is she the star of the film I think it's Sadie Sandler several of them yeah his daughters and his wife have now appeared in many of his films over the last five or six years this is a cute comedy obviously it's not a Sandler classic or anything like that but he is very much would you say it's using nepo for good it feels very self-contained so it doesn't feel as like annoying i think it's yes i think it's a great like life thesis statement which is use your success to do things you want to do with the people that you love i'm with you it's amazing well put we should all be like it yes and you are so not invited to my bottom it's red uh 2023 Leo, an animated film in which he plays a turtle.

1:39:10So Sadie and Sonny are in the film, but it's Sonny who plays Stacey, who's preparing for the Batman stuff. She's the star. Okay. Got it. Leo, do you see Leo? Show Knox Leo? No. Animated movie? Not bad. Okay. Not bad. It's red, though. Leo is what kind of? A lizard. Oh, it's a lizard. I thought it was a turtle. My mistake. Leo the lizard is logical, actually. Okay. Leo the Twatara? Twatara? the species of reptile endemic to New Zealand despite its close resemblance to lizards it is the only extant member of a distinct lineage well I am not gonna anyway lizard-esque but not a lizard it's its own thing okay thank you Wikipedia for all that you do we've only got three more films to talk about I just remembered Edwin Diaz and I'm just upset all over again I was having a great time this has been a very funny podcast I got depressed again you didn't want to learn about the you know the native species Show it to your son.

1:40:07Show it to your son and teach him. Leo? Yeah. Leo is the most beloved stuffy of size, of younger son, but Leo is a gondolier cat from Venice. A gondolier cat from Venice. Like I bought him in Venice. He's a gondolier cat. He has a little hat. Understood. It's tough now though, because we got to get a replacement because Leo is so beloved, but the tariff situation, it's really, it's not ideal. I'll stitch in one. A little handcrafted. Be like the cobbler, but for gondolier cats. He has a lovely little striped shirt because he's a gondolier cat. Sure, yeah. As one does. That's nice. 2024, Space Man.

1:40:42I spoke of this film earlier. Not a success. No. Not going in the Hall of Fame. Red. 2025, Happy Gilmore 2. The smash sensation of the year on Netflix. Yeah. We're handing our vote out to Craig Horlbeck. Yes. Not going in. No. 2025, Jake Kelly. Now, it seems like you're not feeling it. I'm not totally feeling it, but you really identified with this. Well, what if it gets him his first Oscar nomination is my question for you. Because he's not been nominated before. Now, I'm not saying he will, but I think he will. If I had to take bets, I would say he's getting in that fifth spot. Now, he's competing with Jacob Elordi and Paul Meskel.

1:41:19Oh, for the spot. Yes. Hmm. Challenging. Yes. And there are six spots at the Golden Globes and only five at the Oscars. That's correct. I don't know. I don't know. But sure, if you want to do it, I don't mind. Well, let's yellow it so that we can further this discussion. If you do that, we can do that for you and the Hanukkah song for me. I'll give you the Hanukkah song no matter what. I think that's a great idea. Great. Thank you. Let's go back through our list. Now, we've got currently two, four, six, seven greens. We've got two, four, six, eight, ten yellows. Yes. Jack, any extraordinary eliminations that you don't feel comfortable with here?

1:42:06Grown Ups is very personal to me. I'm also shocked Meyerowitz stories was yellow and not a green. Well, I think it's great. I don't know if it's legendary. I also don't think we can do two bombats. That's a very good point. But we have so much of the other stuff, too, that is somewhat duplicative. Well, that's because we are old and this was our childhood. And it's still us making the list. There's not a strong case for Billy Madison and Happy Gilmore, except we like them both. Right? Like, they kind of represent the same thing. Yeah. But they're just both great. If I had to pound the pavement, it would be for grown-ups.

1:42:36For me, personally. It's interesting. I mean, I'm very open-minded to that idea. I am as well. Because the movie is so big. You can get Ava. Yeah. You just can't take off the most important cinematic texts of the mid-90s. You can't take off... Which I'm not advocating for, for the record. All right. But grown-ups is green, so that's eight greens. Okay, I'm going to take off Airheads as a starting point, right? Airheads, a lot of fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Put it on 4K, I'll buy it. Take out Waterboy because we don't have passion for it. And this era is represented quite well. I agree. We'll get a little pushback on that.

1:43:09Don't care. That's fine. Eight crazy nights. I don't think we need it. Right. Considering what we're navigating here. Now comes the hard work. My first instinct is that hustle comes off based on what we have left here. I think you would agree with that. You know what, Jack? You don't have to say it quite like that. We had a nice time watching hustle. I like hustle. The struggle of Philadelphia sports is one that I live every day. I totally understand. I understand. I'm just saying comparatively. This has been a Mets Forward podcast, but let me tell you, it has not been great for the last 24 hours in the city of Philadelphia with respect to sports, but also probably the weather in general.

1:43:47So you're strongly pushing for hustle. No, I just, I thought you were a little dismissive. I apologize. And we had it next time. Okay? Hustle's coming off. Yeah. Okay. So that leaves us with two, four, six, eight greens and two, four, five yellows. Okay. Now we got to make a choice between Meyerowitz stories and J. Kelly then. Will it be foolish if J. Kelly becomes his Oscar nomination and it's not here? I'm not saying it would. I'm just asking the question. Maybe. Okay. And you feel strongly about it. I like it. I like it. Okay. Then I'm okay with that. I really like Meyerowitz stories too. But I, you know.

1:44:28What's the better performance? You think it's Meyerowitz? I think he has more to do in Meyerowitz, personally. Okay, let's make it Meyerowitz. Okay. J. Kelly's coming off. Yeah. We reserve the right to rehaul. Yeah, we reserve the right to do whatever we want at any time. Anger management and 50 first dates. Does anger management go because we put grown-ups in? I think so, yeah. They are different. They are different phases. But they do represent an incredible kind of success, like a movie stardom that is rare. Anger Management would be my preference as a movie, but I do agree with what Jack is saying, which is that Grown Ups is like a huge movie.

1:45:11Right. There are sort of... There are several stepping stones here, which is, you know, the 90s era and then starting... kind of in Big Daddy. Like, I guess Big Daddy and anger management are different. And anger management is like a leveling up, but they are of an era of Sandler being like a broader big budget star. Okay, so you think Big Daddy is doing the work that anger management does? I think it's not a one-to-one, but we're close enough. And then Grown Ups represents a totally different box office era of success. Yeah, of dad family focused stuff that is also filling in and for Blended, and for Just Go With It, and for, you know, Bedtime Stories, and Pixels, and all those movies.

1:45:58That's what Grown Ups accomplishes. So, then we would take Anger Management off, and then a blood feud between 50 First Dates and Funny People. Really? So, the better movie, by far, is Funny People. Yes. But if you polled the people of America, 50 First Dates is borderline canonical. It is, like, considered one of the last great studio rom-coms. When has polling the people of America worked out for us? I'm not, you know, and when you put it in that context, well, right now we've got extraordinary disapproval on some significant figures in the world. You're right. I guess when has the electoral college poll ever worked out for us?

1:46:34We don't use that system here on the show. That's fair enough. We each vote counts individually. Yours, mine, and Jack's sometimes. Remember watching 50 First Dates after my college boyfriend graduated from college? What do you think he's doing right now? uh i got an update like fairly recently you answered that question seriously but i i think he's well i don't know like i don't is he a cobbler what does he do yeah a magical cobbler and also a storyteller um anyway i remember some stories to tell about you uh i remember sobbing because like we were breaking up because he graduated you know but then obviously you were sobbing or he was sobbing i was during while watching 50 first dates he had already graduated Was he a big crier as well?

1:47:21I don't think so. Okay. What do you think about a man crying? Is that attractive? Is it a sign of weakness? I think, you know, that I will never forget you crying while watching I Have a Harder Way of Water is what I think. Yeah. I've been told that's the sexiest thing anyone's done on a podcast in 2025. Someone told me that's my face. Can you name three of the family members? Of course I can. That is not Jake Sully. Sure. Kiri. Uh-huh.

1:47:55Yeah, what's... Loak? Loak? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Natiri. There you go. I'm glad I didn't offer you to Venmo. This is what I... That's a layup for me. There's a thing on Jam Session where I keep offering to Venmo Juliet$100 if she can tell me Role Model's real legal name. Can you do it without Googling right now? Who? Role Model? I don't know who that is. Who will be starring in the new Lena Dunham film with Mark Ruffalo and Natalie Portman? No idea who that is. Okay, well. Role model? Yes. Sally, when the wine runs out, when the wine runs out. Literally no clue what you're saying. I was on SNL, and then Charlie XCX showed up.

1:48:32She was the Sally for the SNL, and people were like, is this a Taylor Swift disc? I haven't seen it. Okay. Well, his real name, you will not be getting$100 by Venmo, is Tucker Pillsbury. That's his real name? Like, as best I can verify. Okay. Like, I haven't seen the birth. Right, you haven't called the CIO. asking for it. Okay. Because. Talk their pills, Barry. Yeah. AKA role model. Okay. Role model. You will be podcasting about him in the next two years, just so you know. That's a frightening list of names that I don't yet know. The people I will talk about on this show. 50 First Dates versus funny people.

1:49:06Funny people. Okay. Funny people. I agree. Funny people. 50 First Dates. It's adequately represented by the wonderful work that Drew Barrymore and Adam Sandler did together in The Wedding Singer. Exactly. Which is also in our Hall of Fame. So here's our Hall of Fame. Yeah. Right now. Mm-hmm. For Adam Sandler. Yes. 1994, The Hanukkah Song. Not a film. No. 1995, Billy Madison. Yes. 1996, Happy Gilmore. 98, The Wedding Singer. 1999, Big Daddy. 2002, Punch Drunk Love. 2009, Funny People. 2010, Grown Ups. 2017, The Meyerowitz Stories. 2019, Uncut Gems. Very millennial coded list here. We are who we are.

1:49:40We are who we are. Yeah. J. Kelly could come through. Sure. And you would cut Meyerowitz or something else? I think that... you know, if we're applying the 2025, 25 for 25 rules, that there's only one Bob back allowed. Got it. Okay. Well, I think we've done yeoman's work here. And this has been a very cool podcast made by some cool people. Let's go now to my conversation with Noah Baumbach.

1:50:09Noah Baumbach, back on the show. It's been some years. Last time I saw you, I was in a hotel room. Now you're in a hotel room again, and I'm in my home. And I was thinking about your body of work preparing for this. And I recently revisited the De Palma documentary because we talked about a De Palma movie on another podcast. And then this summer I watched you get the Telluride tribute, and I know you've been getting tributes. And now you're kind of looking back on your career in the same way that the character in your film is. I'm wondering if you felt like you, how you're feeling about that. Did you manifest that?

1:50:41Was there any intentionality into all that? No. It's probably a good marketing idea, I guess. I don't know. Was it mine? No, I guess it's, you know, I'm over 50, so now we get to look back. I've got... I've made a few movies. Do you like seeing that stuff? When you're watching a tribute, do you feel happy, comfortable? Is it awkward? all of that, I think. I mean, it's... I feel generally happy and proud and glad those movies are out there. And I think they all... You know, when you see the back-to-back and the clip reel, because it's, of course, when you're making them, you're not thinking them in any kind of continuity with themselves.

1:51:45I mean, you're just sort of making the one that's, you know, in front of you. And, and so seeing it suddenly the way maybe somebody from the outside might see it, which is to, you know, kind of put things in context and think about how they relate to each other. I mean, it's, uh, I mean, it's interesting on a personal level, I suppose. And it's also, easier to talk about movies in the past than it is to talk about the movie that you're selling in the moment. So conversations that I've had that are kind of more about the career in a way are easier for me to have than they are to talk about J. Kelly at this point.

1:52:30But Netflix wouldn't like it if I didn't talk about J. Kelly, so I have to do that.

1:52:39But yeah, I mean, it's like this alternate version of myself that's out there. And I mean, because I also haven't seen the movies since I made them. So it's also kind of interesting because I have perceptions of them in my head that I, you know, they are like memories in that way. Like I've reconstructed what they are, you know. And I don't know if actually my, like how I might think a movie of mine plays or how I feel about it now. I don't know how much it actually is connected to the actual movie anymore. I mean, it's like some combination of my experience making it, my memory of the movie, maybe what some people have said to me over the years.

1:53:26So it's interesting that way. But I feel very lucky and proud of the career. So you never go back and look at something that you made? No, only when I've had to do like Blu-rays or things like new versions of them. But like I've seen Squid again. I've seen Kicking and Screaming again. But the more recent ones, all of those sort of additions have essentially been made concurrent to the making of them. So then I, I, I've just sort of left them. I mean, I haven't, yeah, I haven't seen, like, I haven't seen Margot at the wedding and since almost 20 years probably. And then I haven't seen Greenberg since it came out.

1:54:15I mean, I, I've caught, I mean, when, when TV was a thing, like when cable was a thing, like sometimes I, you know, I would bump into one or something, but that doesn't happen anymore. So when I see a clip reel, I get to see pieces of them. What about your kids? Curious? You have an older son, right? Yeah, well, he's just starting to, he's now seen the last couple, I mean, really just, I guess, White Noise and Jay Kelly. He's seen when they came out or as they're coming out or as I'm working on them. But he hasn't seen, he saw Barbie he hasn't seen really any of the movies yet of the earlier movies so partly because up until now I thought it'd just be better to wait and but you know I think now he could I mean certainly somebody that would be a good time for him to see probably almost kicking and screaming time for him arriving at these phases of life.

1:55:27Yeah, I feel like probably Kicking Screaming, probably Francis or Squid and the Whale also, because he's almost, he's really, it is the age of Jesse's character in that movie. I'm curious about the arrival of this movie at this time for you. I have two curiosities about that. One is collaborating with Emily specifically. I know you've had co-writers before, but never with her. And I was just curious how you worked together, especially having made so many films. She's made many films and TV over the years, but doing it for the first time, what that's like. It didn't feel, I mean, it was kind of, I suppose it was inherent in the fact that I asked her because I felt, I feel very comfortable with her.

1:56:08I mean, I've gotten to know her better over the last really few, I don't know, few years, couple, three years because of White Noise, because her kids were in White Noise. So I got to, we were all in Ohio, you know, standing on some abandoned highway with a rain tower at four in the morning. It's, you start to have conversations and things. But I'd always liked her. I always liked her when I saw her. I would see her at events and things. And Sandra also. And I love her kids. And I... And I, you know, and then, I mean, I did love Dahl & M, you know, when it was on. And I don't have a really good reason.

1:57:01I really just liked, I felt... talking to her that we had a kind of good sort of thing going. And when I started, I told her a bit about what I was working on, which became Jay Kelly. But it was the, I had several things, you know, some that ended up in the movie, some that didn't. And that I felt was like, was a movie and a movie that I was ready to kind of explore and do. and I liked how she talked about it and then I posed it to her but then I felt like, well, I said, I mean, if it doesn't work, we can just stop, you know. But we never, it was never a question. It was always just a really useful and pleasurable and she's brilliant.

1:58:01She's so funny and so smart and brought a perspective to the movie that I wouldn't have brought. I was wondering how much the Barbie experience informed the writing of Jay and how far along you were on Jay before this because, I mean, just like global box office conquering thing, I assume that all felt very new to you given the massive success of that movie. And it's like a, you know, it's a sensitive portrayal of a person who's lost touch with himself, but it's also, it's a very capital H Hollywood movie. And I don't think of your films in that way either. Yeah, I'm sure it did. I don't, it wasn't a conscious thing.

1:58:48I mean, it has the tone and the scope that I felt was right for the movie and for the story. So I wasn't, you know, consciously saying, oh, I want to make a broader, bigger movie or anything like that. And I don't know how much relationship I even have to that if somebody says that, you know, like, I mean, I can understand it, but I don't, it wasn't anything, a goal in any way. But I'm sure it did. I'm sure, I mean, what I do know is the experience of being on the set of Barbie and working with Greta on it and watching the process. because I mean, White Noise was, I'm proud of the movie, but I didn't have a good time making it.

1:59:43It was just really difficult. And we were shooting in COVID and it was, that was a big part of it, but it was just, it was a very complicated movie. And I think Barbie kind of brought me back a little bit, you know, because I really was starting to feel like, like, do I love this? You know, I mean, like, I've always wanted to do this. I'm doing it. I've been doing it for years. But I don't know, maybe I'll just write Barbie movies or something and chip in, you know. But watching, being on the set and everything really was, I had a great time. I liked all of it. And I was working with Emily. Emily and I did a lot.

2:00:42We did a lot of work over, I don't know, the course of maybe a year and a half, two years or something. Because it kind of started, I think, when I was even cutting White Noise and we were shooting Barbie. And then it continued when we were cutting Barbie. and we were... So I would go... She and I would work while we were also working on the edit. So I would go back and forth between the two rooms. And so in that sense, I'm conscious of it. I'm also curious about the... There's a kind of Fantasia quality, like a little Capra-esque quality in J. Kelly too. And it feels like you're almost like splitting the difference between what you did in White Noise with this kind of constructed world and in Barbie, which is a very constructed world, you know, is that something that you're consciously saying, like, I kind of want to expand the way in which I'm designing a movie.

2:01:42You know, there's like a dream-like quality to Jay Kelly that feels very different than what you've done before. Yeah, I, I, I mean, I suppose it is, it does come out of qualities that those two movies have, both White Noise and Barbie. And, and it's a further exploration of that. But again, I wasn't thinking of it like that. I was thinking it more because of the nature of the story, because it's a journey into Europe and on a train, but it is a journey into his past. And once we started writing the memories and the way he was going to essentially walk into them and they were going to exist in some ways concurrent to the present.

2:02:37From that point forward, it meant that it was going to have this kind of quality to it. So it was like a language that we, because it was part of the story, it was a language then that informed the rest of the movie. and it's not only that, the memories kind of develop as we go on so it's like his way into the memories changes even and the qualities of the memories are like what even is possible in the memories like he speaks in one of the final ones, you know, and he hasn't spoken before really and just sort of how these things could build on themselves and And the language can expand. I mean, it's always interesting how language in movies can change.

2:03:32I mean, it can change and should change as the movie develops, whether the audience is aware of it or not. And it can be very subtle. It can be, you know, Sidney Lumet's always so very articulate about, you know, how he changes the framing and network as the movie. There's always very defined versions of that, but I think it can happen in... I mean, in Frances Ha, for instance, the camera really never moves without mostly Frances, but any character. And at the end, when she's writing out her mailbox name and she's, you know, in her, she's found her own apartment and she turns around and looks at the apartment and then the camera just pushes in and it's like the simplest thing.

2:04:27But I think it's, because of the way the movie's been constructed, it's like an emotional move, you know, which if you did it in scene two would mean nothing. And I think, Meyerowitz, I remember like the music, you know, Randy Newman had done this piano score for the whole thing, but at the very end, an orchestra comes. You know, it's just, it's, again, these are sort of simple, you know, things to refer to, but I think it's like, as characters, as possibilities maybe expand for characters emotionally and psychologically, I'm interested in how the cinema of the movie can also expand. And because of Jay Kelly having these more, like you say, sort of magical aspects to it, it was going to necessarily affect the rest of the movie.

2:05:25Is that why you hired Linus Sandgren? I was curious about that because he has just a comfort doing that kind of work. Well, I mean, I wanted to work with Linus before. So, I mean, I think I would have hired, I mean, I know I would have hired him, you know, if I was shooting two people in a room, um, you know, uh, uh, but, uh, but certainly he was instrumental in, in, uh, the design and methodology and, and, and really the poetry of the whole thing. I mean, Linus is, I mean, he's, I think he's, he's an incredibly sensitive, I don't know if you've spoken with him, but he's like a very, I mean, sort of, he's very sensitive to character and to the emotion of a movie on just the most basic level.

2:06:13And then he's also incredibly inventive in terms of camera and lighting and what methodology really, like how was the best way to do something? I mean, he'll come up with several, you know, sometimes I'm like, is that even possible? Like what do you, like the things, and he's like, oh, of course it is, you know, and he'll have all the reasons, you know. And it's amazing. I mean, he's just so, you know, it's just very expansive how he kind of imagines, you know, a world in a movie. Clooney really represents something about stardom and about the Hollywood engine that is definitely starting to feel a little bit antiquated or a little bit more challenged than it was 20 years ago.

2:07:03I'm curious if you see the film as like an elegy for that time as much as for this figure. I mean, we were aware of that. I think it was even built into my decision to do it. But I didn't feel like it even had to be acknowledged. The fact of it is an elegy in and of itself, I think. it's um and i think george's sort of timelessness quality is him you know he looks he could be a movie star at any in any era i think and from silent onward so he uh uh i think that adds to it too that there's this um you know this notion we all have of like you know movie stars live forever there you know and we're in a time when maybe they don't i don't know yeah i don't know either i hope they do but i i have some concerns um i mean i think they do i think they of course they do but i i think i mean from a very just straightforward i think it's just that there's not you know you don't the thing with movie stars is you can't pick them they have to reveal themselves and because we no one understands and can quantify or qualify or talk what a movie star really is it's just a feeling we get from people and um and so if we're not making enough things for those people to you know for us to even know who they might be then we're not going to find more of them.

2:08:51I mean, that's the thing. I mean... Yeah, you've done something interesting with another star with Sandler. This is the second time it's somewhat similar as Meyerowitz, but in this film, you get something really needy out of him. I don't know if I've ever seen him quite so desperate in a part. You know, he's angry and he's vivacious and exciting, but there's something really destroyed about this guy. Maybe you can just talk about why you wanted him for this and maybe even how he reacted to the material. Well, I think, I mean, because they are kind of shadow versions of each other, Jay and Ron, and we do that visually throughout sort of this doubling of the two of them, and I think even though Ron is going through, I mean, Jay is going through a kind of more dark night of the soul kind of existential

2:09:49crisis or, you know, search. And Ron is on the face of it going through a more, a more maybe ordinary and sort of everyday of balancing work and life. And, you know, is this the right, you know, I've been doing this job for all these years. Do I love it? Do I, you know, do I, is this, is this, is this person worth it? You know, I think they are. I love this person. But if it's not worth it to them, why should it be worth it to me? Which, of course, then calls into question so many other things about the relationship and the friendship of, like, is it all one-sided? Don't I get to decide, too, whether or not we still do this?

2:10:35And the answer is no, in a certain sense. And so I think it does create a kind of desperation for him. Um, and, you know, I think, I mean, what I, you know, it's like when I worked with, um, I remember, you know, when Squid and the Whale working with Jeff Daniels at one point and asking him like after a take, like, how did that feel to you? And he said, it felt funny, but he wasn't playing it funny. And I knew exactly what he meant. It felt funny. I think there's something, you know, in I always feel with all of my characters that there's something that feels funny, even at its most dramatic. And I don't mean it means that it's played for laughs or it comes off as funny.

2:11:22But I think there is something, there is like a comic version of what Adam's doing in the movie that you could imagine in another if you just sort of adjust it slightly. And then there's a very moving, desperate, sad, I mean, heroic in his way, too, version of what you see him do. but because Adam obviously has a built-in sense of humor, I do think there's something actually quite...

2:11:57I don't know if I'm saying it right exactly, but the humor in it plays, I feel like, simultaneous to it. And so, you know, and I think in a large part it is because of how Adam does it. Yeah, I was trying to think if I think, are your movies getting funnier or more tragic? Like, it's possible that the movies are getting increasingly more tragic, but maybe it just depends on where you're at in your own life to determine that too. I think so. I mean, I don't know. I think so. I think, I mean, funny, because I feel like, you know, with Jay Kelly, I see people, you know, when you have to show up after a movie and talk to people or...

2:12:40Shake hands with jerks like me, yeah. No, no, no, I don't mean like even this. I mean, like right after a movie, you know, like the sort of unnatural thing of like appearing on the other side of the door when people come out of Ruby, you know. And when you do that, you know, and I've seen how kind of, I mean, some people like crying in ways that, you know, like really affected by it. And then, you know, then someone else would come up to me and say like, oh, I just so enjoyed that or something like that. And, you know, as if it was a more straight comedy in some way, I suppose. I don't know.

2:13:22So I only say that in reference to what you said, which is, you know, I don't know. I don't know if they're getting funny or more tragic. I guess it really depends on this person or that person. Can you talk a little bit about the Peter Schneider character? Because I know you've been friends with a lot of older filmmakers and you've had mentors over the years. And there's something very tragic about that character and sad. And I was just curious to hear you talk about kind of where he came from. Yeah, well, I mean, he's... I mean, I've known versions and had experiences, versions of experiences of that from you know teachers parents uh other people in the industry you know people who i admired who when i met them were less weren't where they were you know i mean there are sort of uh there there is in that scene and of course with his name there's there is a you know a connection to peter bagdanovich who i was very close with um who when i met him in the 90s was had a kind of strange place in his life and career and i mean strange meaning only in reference to the fact that he'd had such massive success and um and was sort of in a place where he was looking to get some movies made and having trouble.

2:15:08It's such an interesting thing because it also speaks to how, you know, when we... The way we see people, like the way we see our parents, I mean, this is a theme in many of my movies where there are heroes. I mean, they're always grown up knowing... At least that's how we know them only, is that they know how it's done and we don't. And then there becomes a point where you know a little bit more and maybe you see that they knew a little bit less. And, you know, and even later when you end up at the ages of your, where your parents, you can remember them quite clearly. And you're like, oh shit, like that person I was putting all this, you know, talk in, you know, like their opinions, you know, and, you know, that's me now, you know, or, and, you know, but also obviously with mentors and people that, you know, you looked up to.

2:16:12And of course, in the movie business, these people can be larger than life. And when you meet them for the first time, you're still the kid sitting in the theater seeing that director's movie for the first time. And then if you develop a relationship with them and a friendship, then obviously something else happens. And we see that in that scene with Peter and Jay. I, you know, I, and, and it's, yeah, it's that, I mean, I find it, it's, it's really sad too. And also really sad, the thing of like, you know, people have so much trouble say like, you know, these like lions of our industry have trouble getting a movie made or something and, you know, and then they pass away and then the tributes pour in and everybody talks about what an amazing, you know, thing.

2:17:04And, you know, you do wish they could have gotten a little more of that when they were still there. Yeah, I was wondering how much of it you see even yourself in, because there's definitely a Dickensian Christmas past, present, future quality to the way that Jay is going through the stages of his life in the film. Are you seeing any of yourself in Peter Schneider? Is there any like cautionary tale quality to it? well i saw it in terms of jay i mean in terms of like jay is like one rung down you know and he's still you know has uh you know he's still got whatever cachet power in his world but you know he's getting older and it's movie stars are not a thing that we tend to want to get older i mean it's there's so many examples you know cary grant retiring before you know because he didn't want people to see him get old on camera i mean he you know he kind of uh which is probably his own sort of vanity but also even his own protection of the cary grant brand in some sense, you know?

2:18:19I just was listening to someone talk about how he was offered Lolita and turned it down because he couldn't see the idea of disassembling his on-screen persona for that movie. Yeah, I think that's... Bogdanovich told me that he, at one point, I guess was maybe going to direct Heaven Can Wait with Beatty and they wanted... Beatty wanted Cary Grant, but he didn't want to be seen on camera. I think for Jay, it's, you know, not only in retrospect is it a, like an upsetting event, you know, Peter coming to him, you know, asking him for his name, you know, because Peter passes away, of course, so it's something you can't take back or, you know, you can't have another experience after that with this person that you loved.

2:19:13But I think also, I'm sure there's also that feeling for him of like, that might be me next. You know, I mean, both versions. It might be me looking for somebody for work and it also might be me, you know, passing away. You know, this is a tricky question because you said you don't go back and look at your films. But I asked Spike Lee this earlier this year. if there's a movie of his that he's made that he thinks deserves a second look or another go around in the culture that he really likes. And I don't know. Do you have a version of that for yourself? What did he say? He said 25th Hour, which I love.

2:19:54I feel like that's pretty well thought of. I agree. Maybe he was just shining on one of his best.

2:20:06well I mean a more recent one I think White Noise does

2:20:18I really like it I liked it at the time and I wonder why you think maybe it didn't go into the culture as much as the previous couple of films did I don't know I mean

2:20:35I mean, the only thing I can say is from my experience in sort of going out with it was, for me, it really was about COVID. I mean, not just about COVID, but it was as much about COVID as Eddington's about COVID. You know, it was, and nobody wanted to talk about COVID. I mean, they still don't, you know. and I can't blame them in some sense, but I also thought, well, it's not literally about it. It's, you know, I think about how hard it is for us as a culture to process sort of disaster or, you know, pandemic in that case and, you know, how we internalize it and essentially put it in our entertainment.

2:21:35But when it really happens, it feels unreal to us.

2:21:46I guess I felt like nobody wanted to sort of take it on that way, so then they were taking it on in another way, which wasn't, it wasn't sort of how I intended the movie, you know, but it's always, you know, you're always sort of, Brian says in the documentary we've made, you're always judged against the fashion of the moment. So it's sort of like, you know, that's out of your control. Yeah. I mean, I think Ari encountered that a little bit this year too with Eddington, but you know, when you, I assume when you were growing up and watching films, the idea of making something very contemporary that was focusing on what was happening was very celebrated.

2:22:25And now we're kind of, there's some discomfort with that, it feels like in the culture too. I know you see like movies like To Be or Not To Be or something that's like taking on, I mean, taking on, but also would make poking fun at, you know, Hitler and Nazi Germany. And it's like 1943 or something, that movie, you know, or All the President's Men or something like that. I mean, White Noises was different because it was not literal and it was taking place in the 80s. It's from this book. It sort of has this other thing. But I do think that I hope people will look at that again over time and at least give it another shot.

2:23:09Noah, we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers, what's the last great thing they've seen? Have you seen anything you like recently? um oh yeah i mean what would be the last great thing i mean in terms of um you know what i watched again i mean this is not uh i i've seen it many times but i hadn't seen it in a little while was small change the true phone movie we we projected it um and uh had you seen that recently it's been a long time it's it's amazing it's so good i mean it's sort of like I mean another movie I remember at the time at least the way it was kind of contextualized for me when I first saw it I mean I didn't see it when it came out but when I first saw it whenever that was it was sort of like a lighter 400 blows like it's kids but it's a boy young boy young girl right well it's it's more ensemble than that really it's mostly these boys that did this in this provincial school and and the teachers and sort of the, it really is, it's very, I mean, it's almost like, in a sense, kind of alt-mini in that way of like, it's a tableau.

2:24:29And the ending of it brings a boy and a girl together. But I just loved it. I mean, I just love seeing it again. And I was also thinking like it's, I mean, I don't know, as good as, but it's like, it's totally in its own way. It's as good as 400 blows. It's like, it just, and I know I was thinking of like Truffaut getting sort of a bad rap during the seventies that he was like selling out in some way. I mean, it's such horseshit. Those movies are so good.

2:25:04And anyway, that was the last thing I saw that I really like, I mean, it was only like a week and a half ago, but it was like, it really like, Greta and I just were like talking about it for days. It's a great recommendation. Noah, congrats on Jay Kelly. Thanks for coming back. Thanks, Sean. It's nice to talk again.

2:25:27Thank you to Noah Baumbach. Thank you to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on this episode. We will be back on Friday to talk about Hamnet and The Secret Agent and our favorite performances of 2025. And what else? will the Netflix thing be done? Yeah, definitely. It'll be closed. Yes, but it won't be a Netflix thing. It'll be David Ellison will now be in charge of your life. Well, all right. We'll see you then.