The Daniel Day-Lewis Hall of Fame

23:53There are lots of relevant things to the DC universe. But he's like a knockoff Captain America guy who's shitty, right? Okay. Like he's like a sort of patriotic hero guy. John Cena. Oh, okay. And it's mostly about him like, I feel like the show, in the movie he was in, he was sort of a villain, but in the show he's kind of trying to chart some kind of path beyond villainy, right? I think season two took a really strong turn into white nationalism. Right. I sort of stopped listening. I think he got sucked into a white nationalist, universe or something. It's mostly, I'm seeing Twitter memes. I gotta catch up.

24:26We should turn this show into a Peacemaker show. Just only recap Peacemaker. And just like a DCU rumors show. And then my buddy Jim Gumm could just come and feel like a single one. He'd come in and be like, it's not a Superman movie. Let's tweet live from this show. I'm glad that we're talking about Peacemaker. I've narrowed Batman down to 40 guys. And I'll show you the list, but only far away like this. Could DDL have been Batman? Uh, Hmm. I say yes. Sure. Yeah. Well, it is the Hamlet of the modern time. No, but like you're, thank you for saying that out loud. Isn't Joker the Hamlet of the modern time?

25:03Well, there's two Oscar winners who have played the Joker. But like dad issues. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm taking on the mantle, but like, and I'm rich, but like, I'm really not happy about it. Yeah. And the women around me keep dying. My dad's dead. And like, I live in a cave and stuff, you know, Don't you love how Clooney plays it though? Where it's like, no women don't. It's just like, he's like, I just don't really want to marry Elle McPherson. That's the extent of his drama in Batman and Robin. Batman, yeah. Could he have played Batman? Sure. I wonder, like, I doubt. There was never even the vaguest approach to him, even in his 90s hot guy era.

25:41I don't know, but we will talk about the 90s and what he could have done. The shadow. Like, you know, like not even, forget even like a costumed hero. You get the impression that he's never been intrigued by anything resembling commercial Hollywood. Who's his agent? Like, how does it work with it? You make it sound like I know the agents of all major stars. Now tell me now. It does feel like it's sort of a Bill Murray like hotline experience, but it's like instead of like a carrier pigeon, you know, like circles around for a while. It always feels like, right, you get someone whispers in the wind and it makes its way across the world.

26:14Right. Like it was Michael Mann when I interviewed him for Ferrari said like, oh yeah, when I was in London, and I got dinner with Dan. And you're like, right, he's around. It's not like he lives in the cave. The last eight years, you were like, he's been in hiding. And it's like, no, actually, he's just been like wandering around the West Village looking cool as hell, you know? That's true. It's like the West Village girlies and DDL. It's like maybe he's doing Pilates for all I know. I think he might be hot Pilates. But yeah, like, and I think it's like, you get dinner with him. And back in the day when he was working more, maybe you would be like, you know, what if there was like a really weird fucking dressmaker and he's like, I mean, I don't know how it works.

26:54Can we talk about the shoes for a second? Because this is not like the first time he's quote unquote, stepped away from acting. Sure. And for a while, for three years, the boxer pre gangs in New York. Right. He was like, now I'm going to go be an apprentice. Have we ever seen the Italian shoes that he made? No. I mean, but have they been released? Like, do we know what kind of shoemaker? Do we know the styles? Maybe they're just for him. But, okay. Is he wearing them? Maybe they're gifts for his family. What I'm saying is, like, I could be a customer, you know? That's true. I would be interested, and I don't know enough about the shoes.

27:30I look. You're Googling now. But, I mean, I think the whole thing was that he was like, I like a craft. I liked learning at the foot of a genius, like, how to do this. Okay, Stefano Beamer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, these look like very nice Italian leather shoes. Sure, you know, like the Italian John Lobb or whatever. I get it. I guess this is not really... He could make a nice loafer for me. What you're describing is the excursions during the long periods of time between acting roles, particularly in the second half of his career. Because in the first half of his career, he's more or less working every year.

28:09Right, absolutely. He is a staple of, I would say, mostly British cinema. through the 80s and early 90s. And then in the 90s, he kind of sort of becomes a movie star. We'll talk through each film and everything, but you can see he's resistant to it, though, too. He's resistant to it, but he is starting with, I mean, we should go through it to pinpoint exactly, but it's sort of around Mohicans. Yes. It's like, yeah, he's a guy where it's like you put his face on the poster. You put his name above the title. I don't care if it's an artier movie. That will intrigue people. So we will go through every single movie here in this conversation.

28:43so it's not that many it's not and then some of them are weird and some of them are weird i i have watched every single movie i have not because i'm gonna i slept through my alarm i'm sorry it's totally fine some of them are very negligible when we'll get to those movies but some of them are like some of the great acting uh achievements on screen over the last 40 years legitimately the whole thing and we have to talk about like well we'll talk about lots of things but you know when you when we were thinking like okay what's a podcast we i wanted to do a hall of fame we were looking at guys on the release calendar and girls guys and gals you are yeah and we hit on oh no and i was like oh let me see like which i haven't seen it was like five movies like i've seen most of his movies there aren't there's a lot but there aren't that many but they are as you said some of the great screen performances but i wouldn't say that this is a hall of fame of like the greatest complete works they're movies that are built around him yeah and at a certain point in his career there is where it sort of becomes like well you've got Daniel Day-Lewis.

29:42With that the bar has been raised in terms of how much you'll be able to make this movie work even if the movie doesn't come together the way you want it to. He's in several he's in a few like great great great films but you're right that it's not right. It's often more of like a very good or very interesting I don't know. He's in a lot of movies I love. What do you guys think defines him as an actor? Not as a star but as an actor. It's just super chill. Yeah. Like, relax. Well, we know that he applies the method, right? That he stays in character on set. But you wouldn't know that unless someone told you that, right?

30:19But at some point, someone did tell us that. And I do think that we watch every performance now knowing that. I can't divorce my understanding of him from... He's been shrouded in that for me since I was a teenager. Gangsta New York would probably be the first movie he was in that I was like, you know, a plugged in film fan, right? Like, but he doesn't play normal guys. And we're going to talk about it, but like, this is a filmography. There's only a couple of times he played kind of like a contemporary guy who like lives in a house and goes around being normal. Yeah. Right? Yeah. That's how we...

30:54Just like me, a normal guy who goes around, lives in a house being normal. He tends to do period movies. Yep. He tends to do movies where there's, you can sense a transformation even if it's like not as extreme like even if it's not big makeup or like you can just sense that like he accent you sense it facial hair yes and it's like he and Meryl Streep I feel like were the kings of this when I was a kid of like the two actors where you're like they're always doing something and with Meryl it was usually a big accent or something or white water rafting yeah and with him that river was wild it was so wild and with him it would be like Like, oh, he's going to do, you know, kind of like a quiet drama about like sort of what happened to the young people in the IRA who got out of prison.

31:41But he also fucking got ripped and is like a champion boxer now. You know what I mean? Like, it was like it could never just be this. Anemone is one of the sleepiest, smallest movies he's ever made. Like, and even then it feels he's immersed in it. I mean, he probably went off and lived in the woods. Has he talked about? I don't think he talked about the. I think he's maybe trying to avoid getting kind of a mythos. By that. Yeah. But this seems one of the easier ones of like, he had a little house in the woods. Yeah, sounds great. You know, I got the kitchen. He isolated himself. I saw the, like, I understand how he made his food.

32:11You know, they have displayed all of that in the film. So I don't know. He probably had to think about all that. I don't know. I'm maybe a little warmer towards an enemy for that reason. Yeah. And not funny. Not funny. Not funny. No. There's efforts toward funny in the filmography that maybe I wasn't familiar with. And he can be in movies that are funny and they kind of play off his seriousness in funny ways, I don't think he's particularly good at comedy. Yes. Yeah, and there is also... Also true of Meryl, until she kind of unlocked it later in life. For a long time, yes. So Meryl is a key reference point.

32:45There's a quote from Colin Firth who stars in your favorite film, Mamma Mia. I haven't seen it. Worst movie I ever liked. So at the end of Mamma Mia, I'm sorry to spoil this for you, Sean. What, have you really not seen Mamma Mia? it's pretty easy and we were not to interrupt you we were talking about pop music and our kids the other day and actually the one thing that my daughter does like in pop music is ABBA that is the one the best okay at one time my wife was in the car with me I'm sorry and then you should die and was like you know I don't really know ABBA that well and I was like yeah you do and she was like no I don't and I was like okay well like Siri play ABBA and we are gonna go through every song until we hit one you don't recognize and it took like 14 songs.

33:30It would have been really fun if your phone just started playing. You can see it right now. Anyway, so again, spoiler, after the dramatic events of the film have concluded, there is like a credits tack on scene where they are all in like the most bell-bottoms-y, bell-bottoms jumpsuits doing Waterloo. Yeah, the song no pocket contain. and going for it. And Colin Firth is like, here's the thing about all actors like in our essence we just want to like dress up in like very silly clothes and like dance around to Waterloo he was like this has and Meryl Streep is in it too so like there is something about being a theater kid actors that it's like let's be silly this is really what you want you want to express yourself and Daniel Day-Lewis does not have that gene like he's not trying to have fun to Abba at like any point there is nothing silly about it we're going to talk about the one time he tried it and it did not work Yes, it really did not work.

34:29He literally does sing and dance in a movie. He tried. He really gave it. And maybe he did it because he was like, I can do that. I can try this. I've never done that. All right. So your entry point was Gangs of New York. Do you remember the first time you saw him on screen? Probably Age of Innocence. Right? Yeah. I was trying to think if I. That's not quite my fan. Had I seen any of those. I must have been shown in the name of the father. I can't remember when I saw that. I might have seen like the crucible in school. Yeah. Like something like that. Yeah. But I do think Gangs in New York was probably the first time I was properly keyed into him as a movie fan.

35:02And then I went backwards and forwards. I would say that the My Left Foot year is probably right around an early intro to Oscars for me. Really? Because I'm still older than you. Yeah. And so I'm like, I can picture my mom sitting on the couch thinking of talking about his performance. How he transformed. That's what, 89? 89, yeah. Yeah, I was too young. So... Okay. Well. Well. He's won three Academy Awards. Sure. He's been nominated, I believe, for six. So he's won for My Left Foot, There Will Be Blood, and Lincoln. That makes this a little bit easier as an exercise when you have three of these.

35:39I don't know if we've ever talked about anyone who has three acting awards for this. Frances McDormand. Katherine Hepburn. Katherine Hepburn, who I nominated. But we missed all the anniversaries. And Sean wouldn't make her brownies. I said I would do her next year, though. Is she going to be 100 next year? No. No, there's no. There's no round number. We'll just do it. And then, is Meryl at three? Meryl has three. Her third was so egregious. Sure, it was. And Meryl will have a Hall of Fame when Devil Wears Prada 2 comes out. Oh, that's very exciting. And let me tell you what should have gotten an Oscar is Devil Wears Prada 1.

36:12Yes, and not the Iron Lake. She probably will get one for two. You think so? No. Okay. Well, I should listen. Maybe she's amazing at it. I don't know. She might be, maybe. Yeah, but who else are we missing with three? There's not that many. I mean, I think there's that guy who did it three times early. Is it Brennan, Walter Brennan? You know, there's some character actor in the 30s and 40s who picked up three Oscars, but, you know, we don't think about him in the same way. Nicholson? Nicholson has three for Cuckoo's Nest, Turns of Endearment, as good as it gets. Ingrid Bergman? You know, it's good to Nicholson.

36:43Ingrid Bergman has at least two. And then she has Murder on the Orient Express. Yeah, she did win an Oscar. That's a choice they made. Guys, do it. She's all right, Ned. Okay. I mean she's okay but you know she's fine in it who's that? Ingrid Bergman and Murder on the Orient Express oh that's a phony win but she's a genius she's a legend I mean obviously it's not that she doesn't deserve it heck no no no but that's a silly Oscar win it was a bit of a silly it was a bit of a sort of like oh my god you're still here win I mean I like that movie okay she should have won for what's the Rossellini Journey to Italy that's an incredible performance that is one of my favorite movies of all time that's such a great movie but that's when she was she was tarred and feathered because she was cheating on her husband.

37:25Cheating on, yeah. Okay. The Big Tuna. That's what I call Rosalini. The Big Tuna? Well, he was a big guy and he made this movie Stromboli, which is all about tuna hunters. That's true. I call him The Big Tuna Hunter. Okay. The Big Tuna. I was talking to me about Stromboli just the other night. Oh, my sister-in-law, Ruthie. Yes. Because she was in Sicily and then she's like, and then I watched Stromboli. Stromboli rocks. She did. Yeah. That movie rocks. Shout out Ruthie. Ruthie, a woman of taste. Yeah. I didn't get to shout her out during the live podcast, but I shouted out her parents. So, hi Ruthie.

37:54I said hi to her backstage. DDL also nominated for In the Name of the Father Gangs of New York and Phantom Thread. And that's it? It's six total? That's interesting. I probably, so I'm like, I'm wondering. So he's not quite, because I do see him in this tradition of great English actors. Laurence Olivier, you know, the kind of Richard Harris, Richard Burton, Robert Shaw, Oliver Reed, that whole, you know, wing of guys and then you know John Gielgud this whole historical run of folks Peter O'Toole I think is a good almost everyone you're naming is the other kind of actor where they're like I get shit faced until they call action where DDL is like I learn how to make houses out of trees and live in the woods for a year Peter O'Toole is like I go to the bar and I load up and then I'm ready to be fucking you know that's how I podcast there's nothing wrong with that That's my method.

38:51And like, it's just so interesting to think about those guys. Because you think about Olivier, you know, the famous thing with Marathon Man where he, to Dustin Hoffman, he's like, why don't you just try acting? You know, like, right? Dustin Hoffman's, you know, deep in the method. And Olivier's like, what is this? And like, that's why Daniel Day-Lewis sticks out to me as a Brit. Because I feel like Brits usually don't tolerate that kind of tomfoolery. So there's one, I think there is one comp. And it's an unusual one because this is an actor who is known for franchise work and comedy. But I think Alec Guinness is actually an interesting match for him because Alec Guinness was a transformer.

39:30He was a person who turned into characters and disappeared and used prosthetics and changed his facial hair. And he fought the Decepticons. And he certainly did. He built that bridge. I said this on Blank Check recently. I think he is one of the, you can easily make a case, greatest screen actor who ever lived. Yeah, with the most varied filmography and achievements in every decade. But he couldn't beat Darth Vader. He couldn't, but his spirit did. DDL, let's talk about the films. So we're going to go through every movie. I want to say, is it roughly 20 films? I think it's 21 films. The first two are very easy to discount.

40:09We can be a little... The thing is, when you've got seven bang-on classics... Yeah, it's like 22. 22, okay. There is some TV stuff. I actually did go back and watch a couple of the TV films that he made, which are, you can see what his screen persona. And my brother Jonathan is one of the first, it's like a mini series that he made for the BBC. I was like, you don't have a brother named Jonathan. Hi, Kyle. And all of that stuff is interesting. Prior to all of that work, he has a, like a walk-on part in John Schlesinger's Sunday Bloody Sunday. Right. Which is fascinating because I guess Peter Finch is maybe another guy that he has some things in common with.

40:50I bet you Peter Finch was something of a, you know, idol or not. Somebody that he looked up to. Right. Another like mega intense young British actor. Right. Who like sort of was like startlingly emotional on screen. And he's in, yeah, yeah, that's an interesting comp. Then in 1982, 11 years later, after he has been studying and working on stage, he gets a small one scene part in Gandhi where he plays a man named Colin, a racist thug on the streets who insults Gandhi. Mahatma Gandhi. Mahatma Gandhi. Mahatma Gandhi. And I tell you what, he sticks out in the movie. It's a very memorable two minutes in this film.

41:34It's actually, yeah, it's an affecting scene. Do you like Gandhi? I don't. Gandhi's a movie that like, I grew up in England, you're shown that film in school because it's like this very kind of straightforward kind of like, here's this guy's life, you need to know about it movie. And I have a bit of a soft spot for it because I love those, like, just everything is on screen. You know, it's so many people. Yeah, the scale. But it's a pretty, yeah. It's a straightforward movie. It's not the most. It is one of the early examples I could think of of a movie that starts at the end. Yeah. And then it goes because it starts with Gandhi's funeral.

42:09Yes. And then it's like, how did we get here? Let's go back to the very first day of this guy's life. Basically. And then it walks for three hours. And his life is remarkable. There's no doubt. And it is worthy of a movie. And Kingsley is amazing. He's great. He's phenomenal. You know, a very famous Oscar win for him there. A somewhat controversial one. Okay, so Gandhi obviously not going in either because of the size of that part. 1984 is The Bounty. I just watched this for the first time. So this is the third Hollywood remake of Mutiny on the Bounty. and I would say a fairly successful movie.

42:44It's a pretty, is it Donaldson? It's Roger Donaldson. I watched it a few years ago. I did a podcast where we were drafting, they were ripping you guys off, 80s, God bless them, they're nice boys, 80s Cannes blockbusters and that counted. It was basically like a big bunch of movies that were a can, right? 80s Cannes blockbusters. That's really specific. It was fun. It was fun. And I had to watch a bunch of movies like that that were sort of a little lost to memory like it's a total it's what so it's Anthony Hopkins Anthony Hopkins and Mel Gibson and Mel Gibson and two tremendously intense performances from Hopkins and Gibson the whole thing with Mutiny on the Bounty is it's just it's a great opportunity for like a little bit of an older guy a little bit of a young buck big actors and it's a big stack of ham exactly you can just bite right into it yeah put them in their navy whites and their hats and you have them on you know in the courtroom going like well I never did a Mutiny on the Bounty and then you cut to the Bounty and it's like I'm gonna do a Mutiny on the Bounty you know and it's fun it always works they could do it again who's that now?

43:43I mean it's still Anthony Hopkins he's just like asleep in a chair they're like we gotta kick this guy off the young guys the Harris Dickensons and the Paul Meskels they don't want to yell back at their elders that's not the acting style yeah they're getting stoned in being the Beatles that's right which is fine others just to meet you in the Criterion closet so right Daniel Day-Lewis in The Bounty plays a man named John Fryer. He's essentially one of the first mates, the sort of like lieutenant to Captain Bly. No, but he's not a bad guy. He supports Hopkins' character and it's just kind of like he's like the Bebop and Rocksteady to Shredder.

44:24You know, like and he's fine. I thought this was a pretty good Mel Gibson performance. You know what? You have been saying like we both have been saying that like a lot on the podcast and listen it's not an endorsement of anything that comes out he seems like a horrible person but every single time we're just like wow this was pretty charming when you see 80s Gibson it's the mix of like man the guy looks great he's super charming but also just raw nerve stuff pops off the screen you can understand why everyone was like give me that get that guy okay 1984's the Bounty Red yeah okay so we got three straight reds 1985 My Beautiful Laundrette so this is the breakthrough, right?

45:09This is the, who's that? Stephen Frears' drama, you know, that I think is now probably best known as a Daniel Day Lewis movie to most people, even though he's like maybe the third lead in the film? He's almost supporting. I mean, I would call him Lee, but yeah, because Roshan Seth, the guy who plays the dad, also has a big part. But he, I mean, that movie rocks. That movie's pretty canonical in Britain. I don't know. I guess it's not here at all. Yeah, not as much. Like, that's like a pretty classic like sort of breakthrough indie sort of dramedy whatever. Like, obviously it's an early story like gay story in British cinema like, you know, early-ish.

45:51But, and it's, yeah, I guess it's mostly famous because he's just so good looking. Like, he's just so charming and handsome in it. And like, again, like raw nerve kind of stuff, right? Like, I don't know. And he's a challenge to the protagonist kind of throughout the movie and like activates the movie halfway through. I, you didn't like? No, I did. I'd seen it before. I'd seen it some years ago. I don't know. Yellow it. I think it has to be yellow. And it for various reasons. Probably will be green. I think it will be. Well, we're dealing with this thing with, it's top heavy with him though. Sorry.

46:28No, no, no. It's just, you know, you do like to honor the breakthrough. I do. So this is the breakthrough. We can yellow it. there's another 1985 movie that we should that I would like to talk about so yes we should talk about that but just last it's like he's got the punky thing in it right and I feel like that's something he never lets go of that even when he's mostly doing period pieces and stuff like he always has that kind of like weird outsidery yes yeah and you know when you're considering the arc of Daniel and to your point earlier like one of the few contemporarily set movies that he made Yeah.

47:05Okay. Yellow for my beautiful laundrette. We will come back to that. 1985, A Room with a View. Yeah, which you just saw for the first time three weeks ago. You've never seen it. No. And he was like, it's fine. I thought it was solid. I know. I thank you so much. Thank you. It's so beautiful. It's one of my favorite movies. During the pandemic, you had a bunch of filmmakers on to recommend like one criterion type thing. And who was it who was like A Room with a View? That's where it's at. I can't recall, but you're right that someone did recommend it. And someone was like, that is what like swooning sex appeal is all about.

47:37Might have been Barry Jenkins. It is not located in the day-to-day character. Which is interesting to twin it with Landreau where he's so sexy and this he is like the most dickless fuck. This is like the priggish uptight. Right, yes. Which is like another vein that he kind of skirts back and forth with throughout the career. I mean, it's like, it's not his movie. But he is so good in it. He's great in it. But yes, he's sort of a... antagonist or problem character. I don't know how to describe him exactly. I mean, that just sucks that you don't like it. I didn't say I don't like it. Where are you on Merchant Ivory generally?

48:12Fine. And by no means an expert. I haven't seen all the 70s films. Like, should we meet in a year and just have done them all? Yes. I've seen most of the, I've seen all of the 90s prestige. Sure. Right. You've seen the big boys like Howard's End, your remains of the day. For years on the show, this was a big open spot for me that I had never filled. and I think it's just one of those things where there's a weight of expectations right when someone like Amanda is like this is one of the best films of that decade one of the best films in this style not like a huge Ian Forster fan so like that's you know not really like my favorite style of storytelling sure I thought it was good he doesn't really relate to like young women trying to break out of the strictures of the world around them they should stay in their place just keep them right right there in the hole until they get married and put them in a brand new kitchen right they can't leave that one either the only floors that are cleaned every morning um it's just a I mean it's a weird thing for him though because it is he doesn't come in until 45 minutes in he's right playing off of the Julian the allure of the Julian Sands character which is just the late great Julian Sands which is interesting because right Julian Sands is playing a role that Daniel Day-Lewis can play or probably probably was aspiring to do more of but he's the he's the buttoned up yeah But this is also period piece, like very, you know, mannered, which is something that he gravitates towards.

49:39So it's like it's it's not DDL's movie, but it is like a DDL-esque movie. Well, 100 percent. He fits perfectly in the movie. He does. But he's usually playing the Sands character. He will play the Sands character in a couple of examples. The whole thing DDL is, he is default a reedy guy with kind of this like thin English face. he's so English and then you see him like resisting that being like no no I'm I am Irish too my dad you know like my heritage which is understandable but then you'll see him like change his body and try to like but you put him in a little Edwardian suit or whatever he looks the part he does he does yeah so what do we do with this?

50:18you can yellow it I think it should be yellow just because right as good as he is in it it's one of the best movies he's ever been in canonically I would say maybe yes just out of respect you can yellow it Okay, we will yell at that movie so much. I love it too. It might be my favorite. I think it might be the best. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's got the more kind of early Merchant Ivory where it's just a little more romantic. I have a meaning to me. The 90s ones where it's like all about like one tremor of emotion every two hours. Yeah, that scene in the field. I like the scene in the lake when they're all stripping down and chasing each other.

50:53I was like, you don't usually see this. No, that's what rocks about it. But I haven't seen like the Bostonians, The Wild Party. Like, I haven't seen any of those movies. I haven't seen them all either. I mean, I need a reason to see some of them, yeah. 1986, this is a very, I think this is a hard film to find. It was a hard film to find on physical media. It's called Nanu. It's a French romantic drama. Sort of dramedy? Yeah. And again, Daniel Day-Lewis plays a very strange part where he plays the boyfriend who is, I guess, being cuckolded? Sure. And was going to be cuckolded and the film is sort of about this challenging decision for the female lead.

51:33Imogen Stubbs. Imogen Stubbs. Who was kind of like, she's like a big British theater actor. She was kind of like a medium deal. You know what I mean? Like she's in the Twelfth Night Trevor Nunn movie. She's in Sense and Sensibility. But she was never quite on the level of like an Emma Thompson or whatever the big crossover Brits were. Right. A rare example of a film written and directed by a woman in 1980s England. That did not happen. You're not happy about that. Why was she not on those linoleum floors is what I said when this film was announced in 1986. Connie Templeman, the only movie I think she ever made.

52:08It's ultimately, it's a French film. It's not, there is English language in it, but it feels French in its pacing and its style. And it has been kind of disappeared from the Daniel Day-Lewis history, even though it comes in the aftermath of two big British classics. And it's not going in. This couldn't be a red. He's fine. It's not. It's barely a part. It relates to, yeah, a movie we're going to discuss soon. So you hate women and fake people? I don't hate anyone. Has he been in, how many other movies has he been in directed by a woman? Is that the only one? Well, his wife directed. His wife did direct him.

52:45That's right. I think that's the only other one. I think that's it.

52:501988's The Unbearable Lightness of Being. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I'd never seen this movie. I probably haven't seen it in 20 years. I had watched, and I remember this very clearly, about 45 minutes of it in a Virgin Megastore once where it was just playing on a TV and it had boobs. Okay. I was probably about 14 or 15 years old. And it was also a movie. They were playing this movie on TV in public? There's a couple of sexy movies that are really intense. Absolutely. But in the UK. But the Virgin Megastores were so cavernous and you would just sort of find yourself in the art house. He kind of, and there would just be, you know, stuff playing on the, you know.

53:29Yeah. And I remember watching it for a while. Yeah. But not really knowing what was going on. Sweet Jesus. Well, the whole thing with this movie is it's about the gals. Like it's about Julie Pinoche and Lena Olin. And he, this is like his first big lead in a way. legitimately. And he's totally fine in it, but he feels like a little, like anonymous. Well, so I haven't read this novel. This novel is a Nguyen Kundera novel that is hugely celebrated and is, the way it was described and what I was reading about it last night is that it is simultaneously this kind of sweeping romantic drama set during a time of great historical change, a very common setting for a big story that's during the Prague Spring and the kind of retrenchment of communist power inside of Czechoslovakia and also, you know, a film about educated people being kind of like stripped of their livelihood during a time of revolution, but that the novel itself is kind of almost like self-aware of its own tropes And there was a kind of knowingness in the writing that makes it a standard bearer of like postmodern fiction as well as historical fiction.

54:29And that the movie is just an adaptation of historical fiction, right? It's just a romantic drama. It sheds a lot of the literary. You're right. I did read this novel like freshman or sophomore year of college, which like time wise, you know, in my journey. Exactly. And it was like handed to me as someone who was like exploring the metatextual aspects of literature, but also, you know, was in 101. So and then I think I did see the movie then as well. And this was the one that I was going to rewatch this morning and didn't get to. But yes, it is. The movie is. that is sort of like the English patient.

55:16it's just the plot not any of the structure and the linguistic and the literary aspects of the movie. And Philip Kaufman Philip Kaufman it's his follow up to write stuff right it's like he makes write stuff and he's like okay baby I get to do my check sex movie. Well it's a check sex. It's a weird thing in Kaufman's career because you know in the 70s gets fired off Josie Wales by the King but he bounces around in terms of the kinds of movies that he makes where he makes Invasion of the Body Snatchers remake which is fabulous Great Minnesota Northfield Raid. Awesome movie. He makes The Wanderers, a movie about like gangs, like leather, like leather boys, not cruising leather boys, but leather boys.

55:58And he seems to have this interest in a lot of different kinds of stories. You know, Raiders of the Lost Ark, you know, famously contributed, didn't contribute. Right. And then after this movie, he makes a bunch of movies like this movie. What does he make? He makes Henry and June. Oh yeah, right. He goes Euro. He makes Quills. Yeah. he makes Rising Sun well that one but like again these are all like erotic yeah yeah foreign thriller dramas yes Hemingway and Gellhorn yeah oh sure yeah that's Clive Owen and Nicole Kidman yeah and this movie kind of just like resets the course for him and I don't know if that's the stuff he could make because of the unbearable lightness of being or whatever this was a very celebrated movie in its time yeah we've got Oscar nominations yes it was a thing I feel like it it launched both Lena Olin and Juliette Pinoche as like sort of pseudo Hollywood people.

56:48Absolutely. Like they were kind of like half in Europe, half in Hollywood people. They're the things, he's a hot doctor who fucks. I think he's good in this. He's good? I don't think he's really ever done this except for maybe one other movie where he is just the heartthrob. Like he's just like bagging women and with a look. You know, the film opens with him saying, you know, take off your clothes to a nurse in a hospital. whilst there is a surgery happening in the room next door. And he's a doctor, yeah. But right, it's about a guy who's kind of like, eh, I'm just here to fuck. And as the weighty events mount, he eventually confronts, like, maybe I'm not just here to fuck.

57:27Right. But all of his other characters, he is, it's the anomaly because the rest of the time it's like, he's like, I would like to fuck, but I have other things going on. And it's sort of you're like pulling me away from. Right. He's really sex forward. Yeah. And like even Phantom Thread is about the way in which, like I think is it like about Daniel Day-Lewis and his appeal to women characters and the, you know, it's like it's complicated. He's withholding his essence in that movie. And in this movie, he's like, let me get my essence on you. That's what I'm saying. Which is he's withholding in everything.

58:03That is like part of his thing. Yes. And I wonder if he maybe very purposely was like no more Lotharios after this. He may have found it whatever, like a little uninteresting. Or I did that already, I guess. But I do. It's a pretty good move. Do you think that's his style IRL, you know? No. Yeah. So that's the other thing, right? He dated Isabella Johnny for years. Yeah. And then that relationship fell apart and he met Rebecca Miller, I think, when he was doing The Crucible, right? Like he meets her through Arthur Miller. Yeah. Arthur Miller was like hey meet my daughter I get right like that's the I believe that's what and like that's all I know of his love like since then he's just been married to Rebecca Miller and like so yeah him and Isabella Johnny that doesn't sound like a chill those are two very intense cool serious actors like what did they did they like do the crossword together like it's hard to imagine you'd be surprised yeah I guess so I guess so Amanda does the crossword you know she's an intense type she's just a ball lightning yeah I do spelling bee but spelling bee yeah I think the unbearable lightness of being will go in but I I think we should yellow it just just because we're just feeling this out have you ever gotten this far without agreeing I just feel like we're anticipating all of the juggernaut-y things yeah but there aren't that many movies I guess Newman maybe we did go a few we went like there was like 10 to 12 and you were itchy because you kept being like no no no no but we need to have the first one what was the first one Hustler I can't remember what the first one was You were like, Paris Blues, Paris Blues.

59:36Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely not the silver chalice. That didn't go in. No. Yeah. Okay, 1988 Stars and Bars. Now I had not seen this before. This was the one I was pumped for. I hadn't heard of this movie, but I had read the book. What? William Boyd. I read this book because my mom liked William Boyd. I've never heard of this. Who wrote lots of this kind of stuff. One of Juliette Lemon's favorite authors. Kind of light comedy stuff, like antic, you know, usually about like being a sort of transatlantic person, which is what he was. Okay. You know, London, New York-y kind of guy. And I just would, you know, I read this book when I was a teenager.

1:00:15And it's like a Farsi kind of book about, oh, British guy ends up in the South and he's an art dealer. But in the South, you know, they all just like, you know, make barbecue or whatever. It's not an evolved look at the American South. I don't really remember it. And then I learned that, yeah, they had made a movie of it with Daniel Day-Lewis. And this movie kicks off. Did you watch this movie? I did watch this movie. On the plane to New York. Sure. Did you watch this movie? I didn't. I mean, that's fine. It's not good. It's bad. It's legitimately bad. It's quite awful. It was directed by, what's his name?

1:00:45Pat O 'Connor. Who's like a guy who made a lot of like okay movies. Like I should look, I should just triple check like his resume. But it's all like he's - I mean, the January man, Zelda, Circle of Friends? Circle of Friends and then the Abbots? He went through the whole 90s making those kinds of movies. Don't say it like that. We're going to the mat for Circle of Friends. We're going to the mat for Inventing the Abbots. Inventing the Abbots is a cool one. Liv Tyler, Joaquin Phoenix was powerful stuff. They were hot. They were hot. But it's like one of the, you know, he would make kind of like, you know, mid-budgety kind of drama, right?

1:01:17Stuff with young stars. But I want to read the cast because it's crazy. Did you have this experience when just the credits were rolling? I only knew because I looked beforehand. Daniel Day-Lewis, Harry Dean Stanton, Maury Chaykin, Joan Cusack, Keith David, Spalding Gray, Glenn Headley, Laurie Metcalf, Deidre O 'Connell, Will Patton, Martha Plimpton. You know, like it was I was just like, how bad is Stephen Wright's in it? You know, like this will be fun. Right. Like, look at all these heavy hitters. It sucks. It's really not good. And it is in part because it is meant to be a fish out of water comedy.

1:01:50Daniel Day-Lewis isn't very funny. He's just not very funny. It's the one thing I watched where I was like, he's really bad in this. He's mismatched or whatever. He doesn't have a handle on what he's supposed to be doing. Every scene is just him going, oh, yes, well, I suppose so. Well, like someone who's like, hey, hey, partner, how you doing? He's like, oh, dear, oh, dear. You know, like it's just that over and over and over again. Right? Yeah, I hope you bring back more of your DDL impressions throughout the rest of this episode. Obviously, he had played sort of stiff upper lip British guys before.

1:02:22or mostly Room of the View. Yeah, not modern guys, though. Right. This is a contemporary movie as well. It is. But I mean, the movie itself is kind of so half-assed that you're like, maybe there wasn't anything for him to grab onto, but he's bad in it. It's so fascinating, though. It's been buried. First of all, it's never discussed. No one ever talks about it. I don't think it was, I don't even know if this movie was released on VHS. I couldn't find it anywhere. I watched it on Plex. And it is, well done. I rented it from iTunes, so you can still do that. Yeah. I mean, it's sandwiched between the unbearable lightness of being and my left foot.

1:02:58Yeah. Which is just the craziness of how life in Hollywood and filmmaking and acting careers go. Right, because you imagine his agent, whoever this imaginary person was, being like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're the star of this movie. It's a fun comedy. It's got actors in it. It's based on a book that I think probably sold well. Of course you do that movie. And he's like, what if I pretend to be paralyzed? like I can only move a foot. And the guy's like, that's kind of a risk. Is anyone going to want to see that? It's like that was the right move for him. And the funny thing about it is that My Left Foot is much funnier than Stars and Bars.

1:03:35Yeah, you're right. And is not... It has like earthy humor. You're right, you're right. And it has a reputation as a very serious biopic about a disabled man and his struggle, right? That's the framework of the movie. But it's kind of an Irish comedy. Yeah. and it's a slice of life there's humor and heart yes and it's kind of uplifting and you can kind of hear the Irish singing on the soundtrack and it's an interesting thing because as I said I was seven years old probably eight years old during this Academy Awards and an introduction to the idea of the transformer you know the person who becomes someone else you can't believe what this guy did because he was beating I feel like some pretty big performances at the Oscars I can look it up look at what it was in 1990 like when you look at I just feel like it's a couple times I have watched some movie, loved a performance and been like, how on earth did this guy lose?

1:04:23And you're like, ah, but everyone was freaking out about Daniel Day-Lewis. Well, Tom Cruise, born on the 4th of July. That's the one where you're like, he should have an Oscar for. And it was kind of, that was the moment. Very similar kind of performance to a transformation. Yes. And that's the big one. Yes. And Brana, we didn't mention Kenneth Brana as a kind of antecedent to DDL, but they're correlated in some way. And that's Brana's breakout year with Henry V. Henry V. Yeah. And Morgan Freeman for Driving Miss Daisy. Yeah. Robin Williams for Dead Poets Society. Which is Williams having his, like, I'm stepping into drama and it's working thing.

1:04:55I mean, we, yeah, that's an interesting counter to, but yeah, like it was just what you're saying. Everyone was like, I don't understand how he did this. So my left foot is... It's the first Miramax triumph. Yes, it is. It's the original Harvey Weinstein Oscar triumph. That's right. Taking a tiny Euro movie and God, you know, whatever. I like the movie, but like cramming it down people's throat. On the back of a strong lead performance that you can really sell against. And so you have to see this because of this incredible transformation. An actor who's a little bit of a name. It's not like he was a total.

1:05:28Right, right. First time he works with Jim Sheridan, the great Irish filmmaker. And I like this movie. I don't love it. It's not like a personal favorite of mine. It's very impressive what he has done in terms of just transforming his body and the things he learned to do with his feet. And that he has said that the reason that he wanted to do this was the challenge of it. I'm sure he connected to the story and it was a meaningful one to him. But that the idea of, you know, making your foot your only workable appendage, you know, exactly to communicate, to make art, to write. It's an impressive performance, but it has also become like shorthand for the DDL thing.

1:06:09You know, it's like, oh, right. Okay. So now you are completely becoming someone else, like with great, like physical challenges. And it's, it is showy, you know, it is, it is, hey, look over here. We're acting. 100%. Whereas everyone else in the movie is not. Right. Brenda Fricker won an Oscar. Like everyone else feels like these nice lived in British Irish performers, you know, like Fiona Shaw is really good. Generous in the sense of what I think is really impressive about the Daniel Day-Lewis performance. It like is because it is so physical and like showy. He does make it look natural. You know, like he is he's acting, but there is a naturalistic quality to like his presence that makes it also, you know, this could be really insulting in almost like anybody else's hands or body.

1:07:04Yeah, gone wrong, it would be terrible. So you got to hand it to him, but it's like the performance announces itself. You got to foot it to him. That's right. Sorry, that's insensitive to Christy Brown. I'm really sorry. My left foot is going in the Daniel Day-Lewis Hall of Fame automatically. I think even though it is not a film, I've seen it like once and I think it's quite good. I like Jim Sheridan. I think that's such an interesting run of films. I agree. That's kind of starting here. And it's also very interesting how it ends. Like In America is kind of the last movie of consequence he made.

1:07:34I mean the brothers remake is okay but like he went on from like making these like incredibly soulful clearly personal movies to being like I don't know I'll have Hollywood jobs 50 cent needs an 8 mile let me at him you know like it just became kind of like a journeyman mortgages cost money you know absolutely and I don't you know it's fine but like this is not the Jim Sheridan movie I really love me neither we all get to that here we are back right where we were one year ago 1990 ever smile New Jersey a movie that no one has ever heard of. I do not know what you're talking about, to be honest.

1:08:09And I was thinking about my left foot. I'm sorry. Here's the first sentence, the first two clauses. Fergus O 'Connell, an itinerant Irish-American dentist from New Jersey, offers his services free of charge to the isolated rural population of Patagonia in Argentina. The film is written and directed by Carlos Sorin, an Argentinian filmmaker. Sure. This is also very clearly a personal work for him. I have no idea how this even hit Daniel Day-Lewis' desk. Well, good point. But do you think this was a pre-My Left Foot situation? Because you think about My Left Foot as the beginning of like, okay, from now on, if he's making a movie, you're getting quite a package.

1:08:50You're getting a transformation from him. It's going to be kind of a story, right? We're no longer doing a Stars and Bars. And look, maybe for Stars and Bars, he spent six months selling art at Sotheby's. I don't know like what his prep was for that movie, but it does feel like my left foot on is like the method mystique begins. Nevertheless, Fergus decides to continue with his work on the prevention of tooth decay and dental health education. I watched this movie. Which is a homework movie. You know what? Pro dentistry. You know how I feel about dentists, but they prevent disease. And that is, yeah.

1:09:26Best dentist movie. Is it the Alan Rudolph film, The Secret Lives of Dentists? Catch me if you can. And Amy Adams' dad is a dentist? Martin Sheen? I'm not sure if that's a... No, someone's a dentist. He's a lawyer. Martin Sheen's a lawyer. So is someone a dentist? Or there's a hygienist? Maybe. There's dentistry in Catch Me If You Can? Is a serious man the best dentist woman? With a goy's teeth? Catch Me If You Can, dentistry. What about the Steve Martin comedy, Novocaine? Yeah, that's funny. There were a couple... That movie's not very good. No. No, not really, no. It's been a great dentist movie.

1:09:57It's been a movie about a dentist who's a hero, much like this film. You know what I mean? Like usually if you're a dentist in a movie, you're playing like kind of a dwerp. That's a really good question. Yeah. Like it's kind of like, ah, you know, go to your job being a dentist, fiddling around with teeth all day, a little weirdo. It's a respectable upper middle class station in society. Right, but it's kind of like a thing. It's like, ah, you got a boring job. And Little Shop of Horror is another iconic dentist. That's probably the best dentist movie, right? Is it safe? Is that dentistry? You know, one could argue it's torture.

1:10:27When you Google catch me if you can dentist, it's very confusing results. So it's like a lot of people like. I just want to tell you guys, I watched Ever Smile New Jersey. It's really bad. I did think he was kind of charming in it. Is it like a parody of this kind of movie? You have to be charming as a dentist because you got to get people. Well, he's trying to convince children to brush their teeth. You're making this movie sound. It's a very odd film. He's in like the wilds of Patagonia with like toothbrushes. It's in civilized society. He's in classrooms. it's not like in the jungle I'm imagining him in the jungle just arriving at settlements being like I bring Oral B there's an important note to this movie well there is a thing in the plot summary that's about how for a while like capitalism takes over his work and he's like I don't know whether I'm compromised by Oral B or whatever it doesn't say Oral B big toothpaste Miramax also produced this movie oh interesting And so I wonder if there was a little bit of one and one here.

1:11:32Like, hey, my friend. We'll do Jim Sheridan's movie if. Yeah, someone I know. Some sort of package. Has got this dentist project. Ever Smile New Jersey will not be going. Okay. And then here we go with. Here we go. Right now it's like an insane collection of films over a 10-year period. He wins an Oscar for My Left Foot. And then, you know, it takes off. Three years go by, though. Three years go by before the next movie. Because he has to go live in the woods. Yeah, it takes a while. to become what is Hawkeye? Is that his name in Last of the Mohicans? Last of the Mohicans 1992. To David's point there's just like a lot of people in Last of the Mohicans you know and a lot of horses and other stuff so it takes a while to have real people and things in your movie.

1:12:15Is this his peak hotness? Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is peak like marquee idol for him. A status he avoids. Yes. Listen. It's a great job. So it's a really fascinating pivot moment in Michael Mann's career as well because he's made Thief and Manhunter and then he goes off and makes Miami Vice. He's on Miami Vice for a stretch of time. He hasn't made a movie in six years between Manhunter and this movie because he's been working in TV. And it's intensity plus intensity, like man plus GDL. Yes, the masculine forces coming together, but also a very firm rejection of a certain kind of like contemporary crime movie that he or crime TV show that he is getting known for.

1:13:03And for Daniel Day-Lewis, it's an American movie and he's playing an American character sort of set in a Native American world. Right. And so it's a huge, it's a major transition away from the fusty buttoned up guy or, you know, the Irish artist. Like it's a big change. But it's the kind of American he likes playing, which is an American from more than 100 years ago who has something of an accent. like something of a voice that he can do right like he's not gonna just play you know Joe Joe Coffey is that gonna play David Sims he could try well even there he's gonna have to put on a few films in the UK for some time yeah some English heritage we're getting there we're gonna the story of a young blogger yeah we're gonna do Politics Corner shortly would that be a good film no Young David The Life and Times of Young David there's moments you could dramatize I guess you could give it give it your best shot Last of the Mohicans is also a proving ground for Daniel Day-Lewis as action star.

1:13:57Because that's the other thing, is that this is an action movie in so many ways, and he's so credible. He's just running. When he saves Madeline Stowe, you know, in that final battle, and it's just absolutely, he's laying in the punches, he's, you know, and you see the choreography, but also he, again, he has learned and lived the choreography enough that it is credible. Again, right, with my left foot, the transformation is so obvious. And so with this, obviously he looks great and he's got the hair and he's got the body and stuff, but like is where you start hearing about like, Oh no, no, no.

1:14:33He like made camp in upstate New Indi and Rondacks and he learned to build fires and carve wood. And like, you start to hear this sort of mythic stuff about my favorite story from this movie. We did this, we did Michael Mann on blank check years ago is that Michael Mann was also insane. And there's a moment where like shooting through the night for some, you know, big battle sequence or whatever. And then Michael Mann starts yelling like, turn that light off. What's that light? Like, who turned on a light? And they're like, the sun is rising. Michael, the day is beginning. We cannot control the sun itself.

1:15:06That's incredible. Yeah, it's the best. This has never been a big Michael Mann movie for me. Oh, sure. In my Michael Mann rankings, this is not in the top five. I think it's very good. Not in the top five, but it's a pretty great rewatchable rip-snorting adventure. Totally. When we did Top 5 Michael Manns on Big Picture, I gave away my fifth spot to Chris. To pick it? Yeah. Okay. And we put in Last of the Weekends. Okay. So I think I felt that I needed to speak for Chris Ryan. It's very good. I'm not criticizing it. It's just not specifically what I connect with the most about Manns films, which is I think he's like obsessed with the surfaces of contemporary life.

1:15:47Sure. And the way that we're all affected by it. I mean, these are some, you know, gnarly battle sequences, though. I watched this on the train, like on the Metro North yesterday, and I was like, oh, okay, so there goes someone's head, you know. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's incredibly intense. And Daniel Day-Lewis is very good, and this movie made$150 million. I was going to say. And it announced he has a big stock. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it has to be green. It's very, very green, for sure. 1993, one year later, his first collaboration with Martin Scorsese, The Age of Innocence. Yeah, baby. Green, green.

1:16:18Green. Green. Green. It's so good. And, you know, it's so interesting because it was a movie that got an underwhelming reception at the time. And I think there was partly this sort of like automatic bias against like, oh, Marty, you can't pull this off. Yeah. Wrong. Wrong. And I think there was a little bias against maybe Daniel Day-Lewis 2 that had mounted. I don't know. Because it's a movie, I feel like it arrived at its masterpiece status a little later. I agree. It's just because it's a quiet movie. It's unrewarding in a way, you know. It is about restraint and regression. Exactly, right. It's about people not getting what they want.

1:16:52And it comes after, for Scorsese, I mean, like pretty soon after Goodfellas. And it is obviously a kind of, not a rejection, but sort of like, I'm zagging. Yeah, stylistically, but also emotionally and textually. And same for DDL in Last of the Mohicans. Like, he's not slashing people. He's like looking longingly in like an opera box. I cannot recommend the Mr. Scorsese documentary that Daniel Day-Lewis' wife Rebecca Miller made more so excited it's so good but it's a movie it's a doc that takes time to spend seven minutes explaining why The Age of Innocence is such a triumph and an incredible conceptualization of a novel like this and she's like and Daniel Day-Lewis this guy really rocks he's great in it I mean one of up until this press run for Anemone you know he has just not given very many interviews in the last 25 years but he has featured prominently in this documentary.

1:17:45That rocks. And speaking really like just sincerely about how much he loves Martin Scorsese and loves working with him but also just like got his head blown off by taxi driver and whatnot. Anyway. I liked it. Big silence guy? I mean, you might imagine. I bet you. He probably vibed with silence. The Age of Innocence is wonderful. It's definitely going in. It's so good. He's good in it. He's great. I'm not sure that the movie like he's obviously a central performer but I don't know that if you had a different actor it couldn't work. It's not one of those kinds of performances. you know I think a lot of his movies you'd be like if you take Daniel Day-Lewis out this movie falls apart that isn't really true for this one like if you would put if you'd put like a young Rupert Everett would this still be a good movie no you named an actor I don't love sorry Rupert Everett and I like him but Rupert Everett I like him but what about like Colin Firth he's a little young again like they are people with this this silly strain right you know they are like I mean and I think I think also the Michelle Pfeiffer DDL chemistry which is like wordless but you know by nature of the project is amazing and powerful and he doesn't always have that kind of chemistry with other women stars she's also the best and is like still in her absolute groove that kind of layout married to the mob until I don't know where you cut it off to me you would cut it off the one fine day but like he can stand up against her in a way that like I think Colin Firth would get blown off the screen by Michelle Pfeiffer.

1:19:14Yeah, sure. You need someone with a lot of on-screen integrity. I mean, it is most, I like him in a lot, but it is a Pfeiffer writer. You know, like that's where you come away thinking about them the most. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But maybe it was also just like there were too many costume dramas. Like, because again, when I think about like why did this bounce off people a little bit at the time? Was it just like, we just had, we have all the merchant ivories. We had Dangerous Liaison. You know, we're getting too many of these. Could be. I don't know. but it stood the test of time. Okay, green. Green, green, green for every age.

1:19:48In the name of the father, the same year as the age of innocence. Yeah. And this is his second film with Jim Sheridan. This is, I was just listening to a guy named, I believe his name is Brian Flanagan who runs Largo in Los Angeles. Oh yeah, he was on WTF. Right. And he's a legendary figure in Los Angeles because he's been running Largo for all these years and he's Northern Irish. and he said he lived through the Troubles and he said this is the best film about the Troubles. This movie rocks. It's an amazing film. It's a great movie. Yeah. It is undersung to some extent now. It is. Why do you think that why do you think it doesn't have as much of a strong legacy because in the 90s it felt like an announcement in my Irish family this was a very big film.

1:20:31Well I would also just say the 90s were the peak of you know like the final like era of the Troubles number one. Like I remember we moved to England in 1995 five the Docklands bombing happened shortly thereafter and I was like a nine years old they were like yeah yeah there's still like bombs that happen and as a kid I was like huh like you know like um but uh there was just that wave of Irish like present you know uh political I like the Cherndon movies and um the crying game and you know all the right like it was this like wellspring of creativity and uh obviously there was so much like human suffering and injustice to document.

1:21:11And this is just like a really great sober look at it, you know what I mean? Like, and like at sort of a narrative that I feel like anyone can understand. I mean, I don't know. It's a, it's a very quick turnaround from Jerry Conlon's autobiography, which it's based on, which is called proved innocent. Right. You know, about his wrongful conviction along with his father in 1974 of a bombing linked to the IRA and the dispute. at that time in Northern Ireland. Right, it's about the 70s. Yeah. But it is also, for lack of a better term, a regular guy role for Daniel Day-Lewis. Obviously, he's playing this kind of martyred political figure.

1:21:53But he's playing a working class guy. A normal dude. And is very affecting. Or like hangs out and smokes weed. Yes. Gets in a bit of trouble. Exactly. The whole way they get him, right, is that he's already, he like robs an apartment or something. Right. Like, you know, it gets in a little bit of trouble. And it's funny because we've, in recent years, we've seen Belfast and Say Nothing. And like this storytelling about this time in history is back in the news, I suppose. But this was, this was one of the signature works of art about this time in history. Yeah. And it was like hugely lauded, right?

1:22:29It was like Best Actor. Emma Thompson was nominated. Pete Posturewaite was nominated. best picture, best director. Like it was a huge deal. And it doesn't feel like it is in quite the same conversation with the most iconic Daniel Day-Lewis roles. I mean, he is regular. And as opposed to like a mythical historical figure, right? And then, I mean, this is, we love a courtroom drama, you know, but like this is of like very vintage 90s. They don't make them like this anymore. It's so satisfying. And so satisfying. But for whatever reason in, you know, the letterbox halls of fame, that's not what we it doesn't live on with the same weight as, you know, the other the big scale.

1:23:15Look at all of these people getting their heads chopped off last in the Mohicans. I wonder if also it's because of what David was saying about Sheridan before, which is that he doesn't have this hallowed run in the 21st century. Right. He's a vaguely forgotten auteur. I think it's also it's like, again, 1993, it's like the conservatives are still in government in England. England is still I mean of course England now has no problems Britain right now seems like it's going wrong yeah yeah yeah smooth running smooth but like in the 90s it's still like Britain is the evil people who perpetrated like the evil government that perpetrated a lot of stuff is still basically just in charge and quite hostile to Irish independence and like you know northern you know like it's hostile and so there's still this kind of urgency right versus like you watch Belfast now well that's a bad movie but like even you know where it's like no now it's a period piece Flanagan was very upset about Belfast he was like why are the streets so clean in this movie the streets of Belfast are not clean I am something of a brand of defender like I like him as like a goofy kind of high you know energy like I just he cannot do gritty realism or whatever the hell that movie's going for who does he play in Oppenheimer uh Niels Bohr is he Niels Bohr yeah it's great when he shows up like and is basically a psych gag.

1:24:32I enjoy it. I mean, we'll never forgive him for the Emma Thompson stuff. But anyway. I mean, I think, yeah, kind of ran a bit of an asshole. Sure. sorry. But like, you know, as an artist, I enjoy. I don't know the man. I have not spoken with him. You know, it's like, I am team at forever. Can we, can we just, can we talk about Daniel Day-Lewis, a very English man, just being like. Being Irish. Being like the pride of Irish. Pride of Irish. you know. And I know that that's complicated. He is of Irish descent. Sure. look and we claim him I claim him mostly because he like works with Jim Sheridan over and over again I think it's because of those three movies that he made where he plays three very famous Irish figures and his father was born in Ireland and he wasn't you know I think Cecil moved at a very young age to England and then became as you said the Paul Laureate so he's considered like an English icon this is when I wanted to triple check about Cecil Day-Lewis Cecil Day-Lewis was Irish and born in Ireland.

1:25:30Some of his family, you know, did trace back to England. But, you know, he was... That's true of all Irish, right? Well, I mean, you know, these islands are very near each other. Right. And it's fraught. You know, I get that it's fraught. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's because he's pleased both. We moved to London at the age of two. But look, you know English, when I lived in London, you would meet these Londoners whose parents had lived in London for a long time, but say one of them was Scottish or whatever, they'd be like, I am Scottish, by the way. You know, like, and like, it was so vital.

1:26:01And it's, I understood it. Identity bound. Yeah. Yeah. And also England sucks and Scotland and Ireland rule. Yeah. Like, you know, and like, I remember as a kid, you moved to England and there's such insane prejudice towards people with red hair there, partly because it's a small provincial country. And then like, I said to my mom, I was like, we call this kid like a ginger. And it's like, it's like loaded in a way that confuses me. And she's like, David, it's like a thousand years of anti-Irish shit and Scottish. You know what I mean? Like what you are experiencing is like 12th century hatred of like Celtic people.

1:26:36You're wondering why I'm a little bit ornery sometimes. Yes. I am from a long line of men and women who are like, what the fuck? Get out of my country. And as this outsider who lived in England, I found the royal family to be like this goofy institution that was kind of amusing and interesting. I did not have that like understandable like thing of like why do they get to be in charge of me even in a ceremonial way anyway so like I understand like he has that connection to the country and it matters to him and he's good at doing Irish accents like he's great he's good at doing Irish accents he's so credible in this movie and In the Name of the Father I think is going in automatically Oscar nominated a great film yeah for sure but I think Unherald a bit Unherald I hope people will watch it now it's worth watching To me, it is my favorite of the Sheridan films, though it sounds like maybe not.

1:27:26Yes. And it is really watchable also, you know? It's 90s conventional, but serious and moving. I have a very soft spot for In America, which is not a perfect movie, but has like these transcendent moments in it. But obviously Daniel Day-Lewis is not in that. It resonates very deeply right now. Yeah, absolutely. You know, coming to this country as an immigrant. 1996, The Crucible. This is a tough set. So I call this movie Straight to Homework. This is the kind of movie I call Straight to Homework. Yeah. Like where it's like the movie comes out, it doesn't resonate with me. It got an Oscar nomination or two.

1:28:01I get it. But like, and then the studio's like, it's fine. It's fine. It'll just play in schools for the rest of our life. You know? Like that's what this will be now. This movie kind of sucks. Yeah. I'm trying to look up. So in 2014, I went to England and I saw The Crucible at the Old Vic. Sure. Who was in it? And it was Richard Armitage was John Proctor. Sure. I could see him doing that. And, you know, it was in the round and there was, the production design was incredible and it was astonishing. It was one of, it's one of the best theater going experiences I've ever had in my life. A woman named Samantha Cawley played Abigail who I was not familiar with but I guess works in television in England.

1:28:39Stunning. There's like a brilliant. And so you've seen The Crucible work. Yes. Right. And, you know, I read it in school like everyone else and I think it's a profound work of art. It's actually about, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's a metaphorical story. Here we are again. I got it. I loved it. I think it's an essential text to understanding allegory for young, literate people. But I had never seen it staged. Is there another film adaptation? There must be another film adaptation. I think there might be one from right when it came out. But I actually... It's kind of surprising if there isn't.

1:29:19Let's see. But this is not a great movie. No. There's a French one from 57. Okay. Ooh, voila. Le Crucible. But maybe there isn't another film version that, yeah, that's it. This was the first. And, of course, Miller, he wrote the screenplay and got an Oscar nomination, which was kind of one of those, like, we're happy to honor a legend. It's nice to have Arthur Miller at the Academy Awards. It's sort of around the same time that Branagh gets the famous Oscar nomination for adapting Hamlet, a movie where he cut zero lines. And they gave him a Best Adapted Screenplay nomination. Now, here's the challenging thing about this.

1:30:01Nicholas Heitner directed this movie. You know what else he directed? Yes. Madness of King George and Center Stage. Yeah. And the object of my affection. Right. And the History Boys, which is another adaptation. I'm kind of a Dobbins guy. I'm up to it. Yes. But this one doesn't work. Yeah. Heitner was... casting Winona Ryder in your movie can really be a mixed, a mixed situation. And it's sort of at the end of her. Yeah. But it is at the end of her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, it's, I don't think she's totally wrong in this. And she is bringing something to the Abigail character that is like, you know, teen girls in that situation can be really annoying.

1:30:47So, you know, Well, respectfully, I was one once. So, and unbelievable. And she, so there is, it's playing with the text a little bit. But does she like stand up against Daniel Day-Lewis or Joan Allen? Joan Allen is really good in this movie. I agree. It's that era where she was good in everything and was like this supporting, I think that he is just fine. I mean, like he's all intensity. I just never really feel like he finds a guy in it. He's just delivering the lines with like a ton of roaring passion. It's like, it's all righteousness and no person. Yeah, it just feels like they were like, can you do Last of the Mohicans guy?

1:31:27Can you do like long-haired kind of raw energy guy? I mean, I don't know what they said to him. They probably said more than that. I mean, they certainly said meet my daughter Rebecca. I didn't revisit this. I did because if I had seen it, it was in school. I can't remember. Nicholas Heitner, to shout him out, did make a lot of good movies in the 90s, became the national theater director when I was a teenager, London's National Theater artistic director, taking over from Trevor Nunn, who is this like very divisive, in my opinion, good, but interesting kind of guy. And yeah, the history, like, you know, spearheaded a lot of really good stuff.

1:32:00And you've still never seen Center Stage. He's never seen Center Stage. Center Stage is a blast. It's so good. Yeah, that's a fun one. That'll be really good. And he was really just... When I watched Center Stage and Mamma Mia in succession. It's kind of weird you've never seen Mamma Mia. It is weird. Have you not seen Here We Go? again well that would be an odd choice right to see here we go again mommy is a it's a calamitously made film everyone in it is good because they're having fun it is a film that looks like it was directed by like ascension jet ski like it's just like every shot is framed in a bizarre way the lighting is bad you're just like what's really true happened they are in greece and they look like they are on like a soundstage in my backyard.

1:32:44It's so bad. It's really. And then Here We Go Again is one of the scenes where you're like, Jesus, they already burned all the good songs. They're doing this weird Godfather Part 2 like narrative. Like, I don't know. How could this possibly be good? Excuse me. Excuse me. And then Cher shows up. No, no, no. The whole thing is and then that movie is 40 times better than the first one. It's so good. Yes. So much better. Oh, so you're a Lily James person. No, well, I mean, I like Lily James. Yeah, all right. Red-blooded American man. No, I just think that movie kind of rocks and is way better made.

1:33:14And like, that movie's good. It's okay. I mean, the original one has Meryl Streep screaming, the winner takes it all. She sure does. At the bottom of like, you know, on their way to a church. Singing like he's being attacked. He sounds like a donkey in distress. It just feels like there's like eight people on like holding him while he's like, you know like you know what I mean like that someone's trying to drag him into hell right but I mean the the winner takes it all scene is just one of the most incredible things that's ever happened those movies they're special then then the second one and I'm sorry to spoil this for you the second one when Cher sings Fernando it's amazing and Andy Garcia's for like I'm sorry that is that to me that is cinema you know it's so wonderful as I always say Andy Garcia plays a sentient bottle of red wine.

1:34:09Right. But like that is so much more fun than The Crucible. You know? It's definitely better than The Crucible. Way to bring it back. Thank you for bringing it back. Red. Red for The Crucible. 1997, The Boxer. Right. This is the third and final film with Jim Sheridan. And it's his first retirement. It's his first like I'm going. Sure, I'm going to make shoes. Yes. And it was that I was 11. I lived in England and it was, I remember the mythos of like he like learned to box. Like look out. He's boxing good in this movie. And then. Do you box? Me? No. I don't know. Not yet. No, I haven't tried that one.

1:34:41Have you ever been in on that? I did box in high school, but not since it's become like the cool workout thing that men do. The way to exercise. Right. No, no. No, I swim. Just like recreationally in school. I'm a swimmer. So the boxer, he did learn to box. This movie is kind of an inversion of In the Name of the Father where he plays a provisional IRA volunteer who goes to prison and he gets out of prison and is going straight. At like age 19. As a kid. Like he was, right. And he gets out and he's trying to go straight and he's trying to stay out of the fight. Yes. While fighting. Right. And it's about like intersonine warfare within the IRA, which was like a big thing.

1:35:19It's a real thing like of like, right, how there were splinters in the IRA versus of like, how hard do we go? How, you know, how do we fight for independence? Like how, you know, how much sort of terrorism do we do versus like, and that's all interesting. It's not an uninteresting movie. It's sort of like a solid, relatively engaging drama. I think it has a great final reveal. You know, like the ending is very exciting, but it is lesser than the name of the father to me. That being said, I don't know if you, you know, when you look at the Hall of Fame, is this one of his best performances because of the transformational aspect?

1:35:59Whatever. He's pretty good in it. Yellow. Okay, yellow. Yellow the boxer. Emily Watson's good in it. Sort of nice to remember her peak. this is right post Breaking the Waves she's quite lovely in it but like I couldn't really tell you much about this movie that and I rewatched it I didn't rewatch it yeah like that that really stuck with me and it was I do feel like everyone was a little sick of his shit at this point I think you might be right like it's like playing these like very serious very intense men and you know like he wasn't finding maybe the most engaging projects and then he's like, well, I'm not going to act anymore and everyone's like, all right, sorry.

1:36:40Five years go by before Gangs of New York. So he returns a decade later to work with Martin Scorsese again. This is a Martin Scorsese dream project. He's been trying to get off the ground for 25 years. Yeah, who are other guys who would have been Bill the Butcher? I think De Niro would have made sense in the 80s. Because there's so many, right, versions of this movie that were theorized or whatever and never got funded. Yeah. I mean, there is obviously something to that voice that he brings, which is this interesting kind of new century American. You know, it is not, because he is not doing the British guy voice.

1:37:18He's doing the over-enunciated American voice, Bill the Butcher. But it's the first Daniel, he's like Bane. Yes. People are like, wait, what's this voice? Yes. And then people start doing the voice because they're like, I never heard anyone talk like this. Oh, see, Daisy. look I am a passionate and huge defender of this movie I think this movie is incredible some things in this movie are incredible it's a movie that I I'm in at 172 for example I don't know how long again I will redirect to the Mr. Scorsese documentary where there is a lot of discussion about the ways in which the script is changing every day on this movie it had so many passes over so many years and you can feel it and there's a version of the movie that Jay Cox wrote in whatever 1982 that is a world like an all-time masterpiece but then it's a movie that was always going to cost an enormous amount of money to make because of its scale and it's never in my favorite Scorsese movie conversation.

1:38:13I will say I think Bill the Butcher is one of the greatest Scorsese performances in the history of his movies. You don't like it. Have you all seen this movie 20 times or am I the only one? No, you've seen it. I've seen it so many times. I got a Cameron Diaz thing and Charlie's Angels was her last good movie If you've got a Cameron Diaz thing, this movie is like poison to you. Because this is her trying a lot. I am sorry. Charlie's Angels was a masterpiece. And then I had to get off the train. It's kind of right in her. I like Cameron Diaz. She's a miscast. Yeah. She's a miscast in the movie. It's in this run of interesting, like being to a Malkovich.

1:38:48The wine is good. Vanilla Sky is the year after. Or the same year. But like where it's just like, whoa, Cameron Diaz is doing something. Right? Like there were like a few years of that. But that's not. this movie gets drowned in like the Leo hype and the movie only gets made because of Leonardo DiCaprio because he wants to make a movie with Martin Scorsese right and Scorsese spies an opportunity yes and it leads to this long running relationship between the two of them and and it is Leo using his powers for good I mean that's really what it is you know even if the film doesn't totally come together it's him saying doing this thing that we've been litigating this year with one battle after another where he's like I kind of only want to make movies that I want to see right With directors that I think are interesting.

1:39:30I'm no longer making like strategic. Yeah, so De Niro at one point. I think Malcolm McDowell like way back in the day, but I think he may have been considered for either lead role. Like, I don't know. He would have been a good Bill the Butcher. Right. There's definitely some Alex from Clockwork Orange in there, the kind of sadist intensity. But he's, to me, young David. I was like, I can't, who is, like, I knew who he was, but I was like, he lived up to the hype of, oh you don't understand this guy's like a caged tiger and like he's back and he's playing the most ridiculous guy you ever saw to flash to the future he's kind of in my opinion playing evil Abraham Lincoln he's got a big stove it's a Civil War movie and he's just like I hate everyone who's not me you know and I'm okay I'm okay I mean it's definitely going in it was always going in he was gonna win the Oscar the America's Speech is like one of the great scenes in the Scorsese filmography to me it's just like a really it's a Frankenstein of a movie but at a young age it makes sense that it would just like overwhelm you because it's so big and so intense but it was like he was gonna win the Oscar right it's that year where everyone in the everyone in Best Actor he wins like a lot of the precursors and stuff everyone nominated for Best Actor had won an Oscar before except for Adrian Brody who wins right am I getting this right interesting it was the year where D.D.L.

1:40:51was the fave and then he had like Nicholson in About Schmidt Cage in Adaptation yep and there's a Michael Caine in Quite American. Very good. Wow. That was very impressive. Thank you. And I think because all those guys were these veterans, and because Adrian Brody was so, you know, and the pianist just came on late and all that. They had also very recently won. Yeah. And so Adrian Brody wins, but it was supposed to be his third Oscar. Not like in some grand narrative way, but everyone was kind of like, oh, I guess get out the way, like Daniel Day-Lewis is back. Yeah. And it's interesting that he's nominated for actor because I'm not sure if he is the leading actor of this movie.

1:41:28I think they probably ran him and Leo, but you're right. I mean, it's sort of... Chris Cooper wins for adaptation and DDL might have won there. You know, if he had run in there. Category fraud will get you everywhere or somewhere. Until you win because of it. That's right. Another three years go by, he makes a film with his wife called The Ballad of Jack and Rose. He's since married Rebecca Miller. She writes and directs this small drama. It's very unlike any other film he's ever made. kind of like kind of like a curious what is a reverse Oedipus situation right Medea's no Electra Electra thank you starring Catherine Keener and she does fight a guy whose tattoos come to life that's right that does happen in the film Electra Colin Farrell Sundance movie small film didn't make like a ton of waves I hate this movie I think it sucks I kind of like this movie I don't mind it there's something about it that sets my teeth on edge it's so interesting that the two times he's collaborated with a family member he's played an off the grid guy like he did this with his wife and then right like 20 years later his son is like another guy off the grid and he's like yeah I fucking love being off the grid I love when you can kind of like read into the circumstances right a little bit there why are they writing these parts for this man it's good right a man apart this is a much like an anemone anemone anemone you know he's playing a guy who's haunted by sort of specific circumstances.

1:42:55This is like Irish Mosquito Coast where it's just like, why is this guy like this? Yes. He's just kind of a pain in the ass and his family needs to be shot of him. He's charismatic in his way. I'll tell you what, I see it as a kind of like post-60s retreat. You know, like we're talking about Bob Ferguson. Captain Fantastic. Captain Fantastic. Was that that one too? Very good comp. Yes, very similar. Sort of like the world in the 70s broke my heart and I'm retreating from it and I'm going to protect my family. But sometimes that isolation breeds a kind of bizarre closeness that is a little bit toxic.

1:43:29You know what the best version of that movie is? I really like this movie. I'm surprised to hear you say that. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. But you know what the best version of that movie is? What is it? M. Night Shyamalan's The Village. It's one of the great movies. Well, it's about a community and not a family. But it's the same thing. It's the same idea. It's about that thing of like, can I protect my kids from the world? The heartbreak of the weather underground. Yeah. By building a fence. You know. The answer is no. did they come out in the same year when's Village similar I think Village is 04 yeah okay I don't think it's going in because it's not considered one of his great performances it's pretty forgotten it is yeah and it was not Camille Bell very winsome young yeah I don't know she was around for a while horror movies right wasn't she was she in the when a stranger calls remake yes she was that's right and she was in one of the sister ones there was one with sisters or something not from Prada to Nada Probably not.

1:44:21Yeah. I haven't seen that. It sounds like a horror film in a way. I would hate to go from Prada to Nada. You know, I'm surprised. I'm horrified. I'm at Nada, so I'd love to go to Prada. I haven't heard of most of these films in the last 10 years. They seem to be Netflix originals. Jack Sanders has already greened There Will Be Blood. Sure, yeah. I think that's acceptable. He's like, correct. 2007. He's probably got his pick of projects at this point. Multi-Oscar winner, multi-Oscar nominee. And Paul Thomas Anderson writes for him, There Will Be Blood. Right. His story about an oil man. He's an oil man.

1:45:04Was he resistant to it? I can't remember if there was that in the backstory of PTA being like, I wrote this for you, and him being like, well, don't write things for me. When he was on Bill Simmons' show, we asked him about it and we tried to get him to kind of demythologize some of this. By he, you mean PTA? Paul Thomas Anderson, not Daniel Day-Lewis. Daniel Day-Lewis doesn't want to talk about like this. I mean, it seems like he would have today. 86 Celtics. You never know. You never know. I don't, he likes, he's a Millwall fan, which is really interesting because Millwall, that's a soccer club?

1:45:34Millwall's a soccer team in East London that is, even by British soccer team standards, notorious for hooliganism. Interesting. And really intense fans. Their stadium is called The Den. They're not usually a Premier League team. They tend to play more in the second tier. And that's one of those places where it's like, yeah, you go there if you want a stabbing. You know, and so it contributes to like this intense image you have of him. I like that. And like drinking Bovril and screaming. Well, there may not be a more intense character on his CV than Daniel Plainview. I mean, this is it. This is the calling card.

1:46:09Yeah, this is a guy that it would be tough to like get a cup of coffee with. Right? Daniel Plainview. Well, he could be charming in a paternalistic way when he wants something until he kind of loses his mind. But you see in the part of what I think is interesting about this performance is it is a true spiral. Like you from start to finish, he's obviously a man possessed from the very first time that you see him. But he does have to use his wiles to get into these communities and get the things that he wants until it goes batshit. The heartbeat of the movie, the tenderness with the boy and then the way it changes.

1:46:39And I mean, it's such a good movie. I haven't watched it in a few years I figured I didn't need to revisit it to agree that it is a green we're being confronted by what is the best Paul Thomas Anderson movie because we've been doing 25 for 25 oh right mine's coming up in this discussion okay that's exciting alright but this is his opus this felt like the kind of like he's got the early messy masterpiece-y kind of things then he does Punch Drunk Love and everyone's like weird and like I mean I love that movie to be clear but like you know and then he comes out with this and everyone's like yeah yeah whatever Canonical American great director.

1:47:12It's an instant classic. You're not going to be deposed from that kind of rank now. Yes. Yeah. And I think like a movie about America, you know, like. Right, right. It is a capital T themes movie that also features, I think if you just polled anyone who would define themselves as a movie fan, what's the best movie acting performance of the 21st century? It is Daniel K. This is going to come up a lot. Yeah, of course. It's obviously auto green. It's also a capital M memes movie though. It is like a people, younger people on the internet are like this voice, these lines, the milkshake scene, like whatever.

1:47:47Like there's stuff that younger people are responding to. There's nothing I like more than give me the blood Lord when he's receiving the body of Christ. Do you like this movie, Amanda? I like it. I admire it. I accept it as a masterpiece. But it's not like a... Well, we did PTA rankings and it's not, you know, updated PTA rankings. Yep. And it doesn't speak to me the way, like, the back half of the career does, which, you know, features women. This movie is light on ladies. Yeah, it's pretty closed off. It's like, and again, it's a masterpiece. But sometimes I'm like, that seems like a you guys problem, you know?

1:48:28So, like, and it's, I'm like, all right. so so it's gonna be interesting what we decide to do on on 25 for 25 it sure is yeah um 2009 9 the film was called 9 yeah yeah of course it's a sequel to 8 and a half baby I mean that's why it's called that right you guys know that right how does is it a sequel it's not the title 9 is a jokey reference to the fact that it is 8 and a half as a musical yes so talk me through this well so I I really love the musical Nine I'm a Broadway musical nerd alright do you also like Wicked? I do I I'm not a huge fan of that show okay but I do kind of salute its enduring power in a way I enjoyed the movie it means a lot to a lot of people yes but Nine I saw Antonio Banderas play this role in the Broadway revival the original was Raul Julia who It was in the 80s.

1:49:31I'm sure he absolutely freaked it. You can listen to recordings. But Banderas did it in the early 2000s, right around when I'm sure this started to generate and fucking rocked. That's the one with Jane Krakowski. She won a Tony. And why not just... I remember when this movie got announced, I was like, Antonio's right there. You can use him. He good at it. Instead, they cast Danny D. Lewis. I think he was a late edition, right? Like, wasn't something, maybe someone dropped out? Like, there was a bit of a weird genesis to it. And this movie's directed by Rob Marshall, who made Chicago. The men in contention for the role were George Clooney, Javier Bardem, Banderas, and Johnny Depp.

1:50:14On May 14th, 2008, Variety reported that Daniel Day-Lewis was in talks to star as Guido Cantini, the film's lead character, after Javier Bardem dropped out due to exhaustion. Sure, okay. Sure, yeah. I think it must have, right, for some reason, Day-Lewis caught wind of this and wanted to do it. And I'm sure when Day-Lewis wants to do a movie, it's like when Katie and Kyrie Irving joined the Nets. Where I think the Nets were like, we didn't realize we were evening, but like, okay. You know what I mean? Where it's like, oh, Daniel Day-Lewis? Okay. And maybe no one thought to sit him down and go like, do you like singing and dancing around?

1:50:51I don't even really think that's the problem with the movie. No, it's not. I was going to say, the main problem of this movie is that Rob Marshall directed that's the problem with the movie how does he say yes to Rob Marshall that's doesn't it makes no sense this movie I don't get it this musical is adapted by Michael Tolkien and Anthony Minghella if you just let Anthony Minghella make this movie I would agree with that isn't this a much better film well Minghella died when did he die he died right before this movie it's right around right this time which was very sad he would have been better he would have been perfect had Marshall just done Chicago and Memoirs of a Geisha is there a yes so like obviously he had successful credible than we view him as now.

1:51:27He had very successfully brought Chicago to the screen. I'm not denying that. That movie's enjoyable. Memoirs of a Geisha is a trash fire. But I guess it had made some money and was a big Tony project or whatever. He comes to Nine, which is a musical I really adore, and he's like, what if it's like what I did with Chicago where it's like a bunch of fucking catwalks? You know what I mean? He has no further take, I feel like, visually. And you're doing a musical that is related to 8 1⁄2 which is a fairly visually dynamic movie yeah that's kind of well regarded it's kind of I don't know I mean the ingeniousness of making 8 1⁄2 a stage musical right I understand completely it's a really fun show but as soon as you make it a cinematic experience you are burdened by the history of 8 1⁄2 and you have to try to reinvent it and the problem is his conception of reinvention is an artificiality that looks cheap Yeah.

1:52:23The movie looks cheap. It looks really junky. He can't, weirdly, he can't shoot musical sequences. It drives me crazy because he's a great choreographer. He's made like 10 musicals. And like Chicago, again, I will sort of put aside, but ever since then, he cuts into the action constantly. He won't let you like enjoy choreography, which makes me so crazy. It's insane. He gets handed$200 million budgets by Disney every few years to make dog shit. I'm really going after Rob Marshall. I've talked about it on the show before. Every single person I've ever interacted with who's interacted with him is like he's a really nice guy.

1:52:54Of course. I already love him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've already been worse than he loves him. I've already been worse than he loves him. I've already been worse than he loves him. I've already been worse than he loves him. I've already been worse than he loves him. But they don't look good. Yeah. His last few movies are The Little Mermaid, Mary Poppins Returns, Into the Woods, and Pirates of the Caribbean on Stranger Tides. When Mary Poppins Returns is your best of your recent efforts, like you're in trouble. Yeah. I'm sure he's a nice guy. Yeah, I guess so. This is not going in the Hall of Fame.

1:53:162012 Lincoln yeah what a what a banger it really is it's a banger what a banger I told this story recently CR and I went to Ye Rustic Inn which is a dive come hipster bar in Los Feliz in LA you don't have to say that out loud but that that is what it is but Chris and I have been going there since the day we moved to the city and we found ourselves there one night a few months ago and it's a sports bar renowned for its wings. Yeah. Sounds good. It was very crowded. I think we had just seen a movie together and we went to just get a beer. And all the TVs were playing, you know, NBA, hockey. And then on one solitary television sneaky little screen against the wall on the far right was a muted version of Lincoln.

1:54:05And there was about 22 minutes left. And Chris and I just sat there and watched it. No captions. It's like, it is. And we just looked at it. It's some good blocking. It's your version of, you think we need one more? You think we need one more? Okay, we'll get one more. This is how, man, you two express your love to each other. Yeah, it was great. I mean, obviously we didn't get a chance to hear Daniel Day-Lewis' performance when we revisit it. But this is an amazing movie. Hold an immense power! This is another one where, like, they are just all playing dress up. And with anybody else, it just, it would have been.

1:54:38And honestly. It's kind of a boys and their toys movie in some ways. Like same cast, but with a different Lincoln. They all do look like they're in like, you know, the history pageant in like seventh grade or something, you know, like mock Congress or whatever we're doing. But but. OK, because you're willing to go on the you're like, OK, well, now Daniel Day Lewis is going to be Lincoln. And I'm used to that at this point. And he apparently his voice did sound like that. And so he went to the Library of Congress. to hear the recording or whatever. Sure. You know? He brings like president, you're right, he brings presidential gravitas.

1:55:17That is true. But Lincoln Rocks, it's one of the funniest movies ever made. Like, every time they're in Congress, it's just about Tommy Lee Jones basically calling people like snakes and worms. Like, they're just like, by the way, all Congress was was like, the ugliest man in the world just spoke and I condemn him to hell. And that's different from right now, you're saying? Right, yeah, seriously. And then like, everything in the White House, it's basically like, it's dark as fuck right everyone is cold because like it was cold everyone's wearing carpets like Lincoln's just like walking around like covered in blankets he'll sit down and the great David Strathairn as William Seward or whoever some great actor as one of his cabinet is like so what do you want to do about the Civil War he's like oh I had a client once who had a pig and they're like no no shut the fuck up shut up this is the best thing about this movie they're not like sitting being like tell us like stop telling your dumb folky stories asshole like there's a war and he's like mmm an old mill it's the best I really relate to that it's the best I really do relate to it and then of course he'll have these moments where he he lights it up right where he gives you like this sort of like the thunderous speech right the man of immense character who right is like but it's all about like the dirty work of government that went into like getting the amendment passed and all that like Like, it's not a movie wisely that's like, he was a country lawyer and then he.

1:56:45Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is also the point where I remember where you hear a lot about the method and it's like, did he not use electricity for the entirety of the shoot or something? I don't remember what it was. People have told the stories of addressing him as, you know, Mr. President. Because like Adam Driver is in that movie, Jeremy Strong, like all these young actors. another one of those Spielberg things too where it's like oh you just plucked out like the five most important up and coming actors for small roles here because you just you knew you know your casting director knew right okay Lincoln is going in not hard it's the best I'm honestly gonna go rewatch it now I didn't because I've seen it so many times please don't leave until we finish the hall of fame I gotta go we're almost done we're almost done we are there's only two more movies we reach his peak and then it's basically just like every four years he would make a splash he won the academy award for this film he did and rightfully so and can you recall the nominees that year alright so it's 2012 occurring in 2013 yeah is it 2012 Oscars no Bradley Cooper for Silver Linings Daniel Day-Lewis because it was like one of those things where it was like we're not debating this this is a good lineup I don't know give me a hint because like the other movies that year it's like Life of Pi Argo the PTA film of course is fuck it's the master so Joaquin Joaquin great performance yep bit of a ham sandwich if you ask me but still great performance but that's what we like about it right what else well Hugh Jackman in Les Mis another film Sean has never seen I've never not seen it what have I done sweet Jesus what have I done the thing about Hugh Jackman is I love him as a star like that movie is stinky that movie is so bad but like it was his first nom and you were kind of like good job buddy you're gonna have to see it now for the Amanda Seyfried of it all.

1:58:38I know. Oh, she's all right in that movie. She's all right. And there are like a couple moments in Ann Lee where they're like too close to the Tom Hooper like close up as she's singing, you know, and I'm just like, oh, you don't want to get away from her. Yeah, I've never seen any of her singing performances. That's so funny. Oh, that's right. Oh, yeah. Mama Mia, you don't have to do it too. And then wait, is there a fifth? Denzel Washington in Flight. Pretty great performance. And one that, there was the briefest sort of like, should we just give Denzel another one? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, this was the Lincoln win.

1:59:06I think it was the first Spielberg acting win ever. That's crazy. Which is one of those wild statistics. Like an actor had never won for one of his movies. And it was also, yeah, it was like, you know, twin powers unite. Like he just hooked up with Spielberg to do an Abraham Lincoln movie. It sounds like fake. Yes. Right? And then the movie came out, people were like, hmm, kind of rocks. And I feel like its reputation is good. Like it's like it's actually grown. It was a hit. It was honored. It was a big hit. but it is weirdly now reverse culty where it's like it's got like all the heads that really love it all late period Spielberg right and now it's not even getting really honored at the Oscars true but his late style is like let's not please stop ignoring this like this is nobody does this okay 2017 Phantom Thread your favorite PTA movie and your favorite PTA movie but you know like I put one battle at two so we can you know as time as time goes on.

2:00:03Wowzers. I mean, obviously a great film, a hilarious comedy about being married. And he finally can be funny. It was the whole thing going into this movie. But he's being funny by being the old British version of Daniel Day-Lewis. Chic! Whoever invented that word, we spanked in public. But I remember the trailers were a little misleading and were basically like, it's about this fucking genius guy, tortured genius. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, here we go again. It is that though. Of course. Everything that it pitched itself as, it is that. It's got all of that. And if you choose to view it that way, you can and it's good.

2:00:40But the intent is obviously multi-level. But I just remember, they screened it at BAM. It was the last, there's always the last film you see before you vote at the New York Film Critics Circle. Like they sneak in, they're like, it's wet off the press, you know, off the printer, right? Like you're, we were gonna, you gotta get in front of this one before you vote. There's always something. And I went in, I remember not dreading it, but being kind of like, why do you make this dressmaker movie? And then two minutes in, I was like, this is the funniest shit I've ever seen in my life. I can't believe I'm laughing so much.

2:01:12I'm having so much fun. And immediately you get the tone. You're not like, am I weird for thinking this? But when he's doing the big breakfast order or whatever, you're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, no, no, no. Leslie Manville is cleaning out. There's something very Cheshire Cat about the whole thing. Yeah, I remember I was at the Arrow, and it was the asparagus scene where, like, the whole room figured it out. Right. And it was, like, actually, and the laughs just, like, started wriggling. Yeah. Yeah. But, like, the thing, he is really funny, and he is being funny by playing that uptight, like, DDL British character.

2:01:49But, like, he knows he's being funny. Totally. He's just doing his version of comedy. They get what they're doing. That's the thing. Yeah, they're just so... No, girl, yeah, I mean. Yeah, it's amazing. It's such a wonderful movie. It's just so interesting that this was the movie that broke him, supposedly, right? Like that he had such a tough time with this character. Like, and he generated this character with PTA or whatever. And he was just like, yeah, it was just too much. And I'm like, that movie would energize me. Like, it's so wonderful and fun, you know. But he's kind of throwing himself on the pyre a little bit with like, you know, him becoming sick in that critical stage of the movie and then everything with the mother figure that is being generated.

2:02:31All that stuff is very weighty. It still is your old school Daniel Day learns how to become a courtier. That whole thing is really intense even though it's hilarious. The best. Okay, so that's going in. Oh, Couturier. Couturier, sorry. I was like, he's a courtier? 2025 anemone not going in no no it's not I'm glad he's back I would like him to keep working the poop speech is good the poop speech is good he looks good he looks great he looks cool very healthy very virile okay here's what we have okay I think we have to make a nominally easy choice okay in green already confirmed my left foot the last of the Mohicans the age of innocence in the name of the father gangs of New York there will be blood Lincoln and Phantom throw.

2:03:20That's eight. We got eight already. Yeah, we got it. Okay. We have four yellows remaining. My beautiful laundrette. Yeah. A room with a view. The unbearable lightness of being. And the boxer. Okay. Now, we've already got two Jim Sheridan movies, so I suggest we remove the boxer. Agreed. I think that's an easy cut. No one's very enthusiastic about it. so it's basically i think you i i'm gonna argue for my beautiful laundrette for sure yeah as an iconic early movie as a breakout movie as this well-remembered movie you know i'm on board with that 1000 and so now we're between lightness of being in room with a view yeah so it's kind of like the star role but you know not the best remembered versus the good supporting great better movie but supporting he what's remembered for it i'm inclined to say the unbearable lightness of being we knew that about This is a two hour and 45 minute historical epic about agony and lost love and lost power.

2:04:15And he's at the center of the, he's holding the movie. Yeah. Now, obviously Binoche and Lee Nolan are wonderful in this movie. A room with a view is shorter, but who's to say it's not about the same stuff? True. I just mean his part in it. I mean, he's like, he's the third lead. He's like the fifth lead. Yeah. No, he's less vital to room with a view. I would pick Room with a View but I don't really care I mean I just like a Room with a View more but we can but that's not what the Hall of Fame is no it's not you're not wrong the Hall of Fame is not the Hall of Like you're not wrong the Hall of Fame is the Hall of Fame okay fine stars and bars no okay fine rightness of being unbearable rightness of being fine oh thank you guys check doctor who fucks yeah that's nice the check doctor who fucks you're like you're sort of a a philistine for not understanding a Room with a View no one ever said I don't understand it I don't just because I did not prostrate myself before it.

2:05:09What is your favorite Merchant Ivory? If you have one. I remember Wings of the Dove making a big impression on me as a kid. Great movie. Very sexy movie. But yeah. I also enjoyed Jefferson in Paris. That one I don't remember very well. That's Nolte. Nolte as Thomas Jefferson. Thomas Jefferson. I'm in Paris. What are the other canonical? There's a couple of major ones. I mean Remains of the Day and Howard's End. Oh yeah. Those are both wonderful. They are wonderful. Those are great. And this is really disrespectful to Emma Thompson. I'm still more partial to the Howard Zen remake. The Kenneth Lonergan one?

2:05:46Yeah. That's very good. With Matthew McChadden and my wife Hayley Atwell. Yeah. Remains of the Day is pretty legendary. Remains of the Day holds up really well because that's probably the best one, right? The Nazi subplot in it hits right now. I recommend watching that. Okay. Yeah. But again, I haven't seen all that stuff between like 70 and 81. I saw a little divorce in the theaters. Absolutely. So, you know. I was there with my mom. Yeah. That was the best. That movie is not that good. No, it's not. Do you feel good about this Hall of Fame? I mean, I do. I think he should feel good. I think he does.

2:06:21I hope so. I hope he's happy. I hope he's happy. I think he is. But I mean, like this episode to me was just going to be a more fun way to talk about his career. I didn't think there was going to be much drama about the green. Yeah. Yeah. There's not and there wasn't. And that's okay. These are not about drama. We're building something. Well, it's the same with my drafting strategy. There was no antagonistic behavior for me. You were very kind. Yeah. You had the turn. I did have the turn, which is a nice place to be. It is, yeah. It was where I wanted to be. Yeah. That was where I wanted to be.

2:06:53I was very happy. I was very, I really did not want first pick. No, it's hard with that many people. Hard with that many people and with a category that broad. Chris made a choice. But that's why he's Chris. it was great that's why he's there really good stuff thanks David Simms of course thank you for having me I'm glad you guys put up with me it's really I'm a big fan of the show and it's really nice to be on it well we love you we love Blank Check and we hopefully well maybe we'll appear on Blank Check at some point in the future 2026 guys look out thanks to our producer Jack Sanders for his work on this episode thanks to Amanda of course next week we return with number 9 in our 25 for 25 countdown it's a good film don't remember what it is but I'm excited to watch it again we'll see you then