The Epic Movie Draft

19:25Sean Fennessey:that led it right into this trailer that we saw. But I would say my reaction was the same to yours. To mine. Yeah. That you thought it was not funny and you were concerned. Well, that it didn't assuage any of my concerns just from the basic shouting comedy really loudly with like bright lights to try to get you to laugh, which is, I think, a problem. You know, the cruise of it all in the trailer and in the extended scene that we saw is very funny. I'm excited for that. I like the rest of the cast. I think it's cool that people are trying things. Again, my Inaritu history, you know, is hit and miss.

20:06Sean Fennessey:Checkered at best. Is that cat CGI? Couldn't tell. Couldn't tell. Honestly, it took me out. Okay. It took me out. I just think you just have a real cat. You cat guy? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Love cat content. Let me ask you something totally unrelated. You've seen Disclosure Day yet? No. Okay. So we'll circle back on that one. Are there cats in it? Disclosure Day. along with Tom Cruise and John Goodman I don't have to see it because it made over a hundred million oh okay so you're that's right you're not in debt so what else can we get you to spend your money on this summer we'll figure that out fix US soccer they're gonna need more than that five million you were allotting for disclosure day Riz Ahmed is in the film Sandra Huler is in the film yeah I would say I'm intrigued but I have concerns as well I think not a big eater to a guy either you think it looked good why is it so washed out don't like it I think it's a very clear stylistic choice that they made I don't think it's unintentional by any means I joked when we were at CinemaCon that it looked like a Roy Anderson movie and at times it kind of does that big kind of almost like Coliseum sequence with all the men the older men in one space kind of recreating a strange lovey and type of scene does look like a Roy Anderson movie on speed you know Iñárritu's a great stylist who I think just like circles the drain with very similar ideas about bleakness every time he makes a movie.

21:32Sean Fennessey:And he sometimes tries to undercut that bleakness by making comedies like Birdman. And those comedies are often not that funny. That could be the point. You know, that could be sort of something that he's trying to say that like in the, you know, death rattle of life, the absurdity is the, is the struggle, is the, is the humor. But I wouldn't say that that's my favorite kind of movie to watch. And, but I am avowed to cruise. You know, I'm fascinated to see him reach back for something different. It's been a long time since he's done something different. So we'll be watching and covering on the show.

22:04Sean Fennessey:Will you be watching and covering? On my show or on this show? Which show do you mean when you say your show? You have so many shows. I talk to Thrones solo pod just breaking down. No, I'd love to come onto the Digger podcast. You would? Yeah. Okay. We'll keep that in mind. You have to see the film. I will. I will. I do my homework assignments. Yeah. But during the World Cup, I have fallen by the wayside. It's not fair. You've had a lot on your plate. And I support you. Thank you. Do you want to scooch back this way a little bit more? That's nice. That's very adorable. You keep moving in and out of your shot, I think.

22:36Sean Fennessey:Be careful there. While we were in Toronto, the Dune Part 3 trailer premiered. And on stage, after presenting Tenet, Chris asked us if we'd watched it. And neither of us had. Have you since watched it? No. Because I thought it was what we saw. I thought we saw it in CinemaCon. No, this was new. This is an uncut Peruvian flake. Okay. Well, listen. Let me tell you that what we saw in Vegas was just straight up fire. It was unbelievable. I don't need to see anymore. Show me the movie. They did it right after Dune 2. We didn't have to wait five years. Timmy is Hemothy. Zendaya is doing Tyra Banks.

23:12Like Pattinson is going for like, honestly, he's going to fucking win the Triple Crown this year. Yeah. And two of his movies could be bad and he could still win the Triple Crown. He is out of his mind in this trailer. Anya covered in blood. Oh, yeah, we saw that. and are you sure we didn't see this

23:28Sean Fennessey:um it's possible I don't think so I think that we saw it okay but you haven't seen it since so you don't can't confirm well I had to drive but you know what I'm talking about maybe we did Zendaya's like we trusted you yes yeah there's a lot of Jason Momoa in this trailer who's returned for some sort of vengeance is he what version of Duncan Idaho is he I mean it's complicated don't explain it it's okay it's fine don't worry about it you're gonna see this film guess I read Dune for nothing okay yeah yeah Dune or the Wikipedia page? Okay, all right. It's kind of how I like to roll. You own a copy of Dune Messiah?

24:03No.

24:05Sean Fennessey:An audiobook? I've picked it up. I picked it up. My mom had one, I think. I think I've like... This is a real Ben to Prague situation here. This is like... I like literary criticism because I get both... Can I ask, do you do audiobooks? Oh, no. Me either. No. Do you do audiobooks at all? I was listening to it on the way here, yeah. Dune 3. Dune Messiah. No, not of Dune Messiah. No, no. What were you listening to? Abel Ferrara's memoir. Oh, okay. On scene. Read by Abel. Yeah, I was going to say. No days off for you. Yeah, that's beautiful. You're never like driving into work listening to Lonesome Pellows.

24:36Did you retain anything of what you listened to? Of course. Did you listen to it at 2X? 1.5. Okay, that's better than 2X. He gave me a ride home from the airport and the podcast started playing on 2X when we got in the car. What pod was it? It was unfortunately the big picture, which was even worse. It was autoplay at the beginning. play because he had been sharing it's fine that part is innocent but that it was the most psychotic got to get those numbers up yeah i would sooner kill myself than listen to my own podcast however i was i i had a physical reaction to it and i do think that i now understand you in like a slightly different way it's important you know i've been repping 2x for a long time i know that but i had you never experienced i had never experienced it and that is unnatural that's

25:21Sean Fennessey:right and that's what makes me special yeah uh speaking of special uh i co-programmed a series on the criterion channel can i tell you something yeah really cool selection of films yeah that's great i just was looking at that this morning yeah there's uh seven films that are currently available and you know the idea was how can a space like criterion honor everyone being excited for what is clearly the movie event of the summer it's clear that especially some of these uh bodies washing ashore of other summer blockbusters that are not totally panning out. It does seem like there are a lot of people who are kind of saving their coin for the Odyssey.

25:55Sean Fennessey:And so the films that you can find on the Criterion channel right now, which will be eligible in one of our categories here, are The Searchers, The Darjeeling Limited, Sullivan's Travels, Walkabout, The Straight Story, After Hours, and Oh Brother Where Art Thou. And all of those stories, to some extent or another, are inspired by Homer's The Odyssey. And journey's home. Journey's back somewhere. and I was very happy to do it. I love working with Criterion on stuff like that. Speaking of Criterion, I was just there at the mobile closet at the Hollywood Bowl over the weekend where there was a huge Wes Anderson event where like they transformed the Hollywood Bowl into Wes Anderson world for a day where you could listen to music in a vinyl room for three days, excuse me, right?

26:34Sean Fennessey:The whole weekend. And I didn't get a chance to go to the concert, but I know you did. I got to go last night, which was a delight and very charming, hosted by Bill Murray. and, you know, was a collection of the songs that have been featured on the soundtracks performed by, in some cases, the actual artists. Oh, cool. And also the scores played by the orchestra and there was a children's choir at one point. Oh, wow. Jackson Brown did These Days, which was like pretty, pretty moving. And like telling a story about how he, that song was not a thing until Tenenbaums. And he said he went to see the theater, see the movie in the theater.

27:09And he was like, I'm sure I'd given approval, but didn't remember it. And then the song starts playing. He's like, I used to play guitar like that. And then perform the song. So it was really magical. It was very exciting to go. Yeah.

27:22Sean Fennessey:That's great. So epic movies. What do you think makes a movie epic, CR, as you were thinking about this project? You know, I could throw out like some definitions, but this is a real pornography one. This is like, you kind of know it when you see it. And I think that there can be epic movies. Could have gone a lot of different movies. Is there epic pornography? That's a really good idea. Should we start making like four-hour multi-locational? $100 million pornos? Yeah. Okay. What do you think? Good business model? Sure. That seems great. Yeah. You pay for your porn? Well, morally and ethically, yes.

28:01That's right. Yeah. You pay God. Yeah. I tithe to. Sort of an Odysseus of porn. Oh, boy. I think that this is the kind of thing where you know an epic when you see it. And there are sometimes films that might kind of have the trappings of an epic movie, but fall short. And there are domestic chamber pieces, I'm sure, that you could call epic. But to me, I'm very curious to see with our picks how left field and how argumentative we get with each other about whether something classifies as an epic. I thought that this was a very fun exercise to put them in their various categories.

28:36Sean Fennessey:I left it somewhat vague. I think you have to think about the scope of the movie, though, to answer your question. I agree with you. How do you think about these movies? I think there can be a pretty literal definition, which is number one, like extras, the number of people actually in the film where you just get like a person count, background actors. I'm sorry. I know that's the preferred terminology, which is a way of measuring scope to your point. but just the sheer number of crowd scenes because they really went for it back in the day and that is one of the things that is diminishing as we move to CGI crowds which they just the technology is not there the crowd scenes are like a huge tower it was better like 25 years ago yeah it's really really really bad so if you have actual people in a crowd scene and because that indicates also budget locations you know scope all of these things and then i think runtime i think anything under two and a half hours is probably not on this scale i have been thinking about that because there is a category that speaks to that concern but can a movie be two hours and eight minutes and be an epic what do you think i don't think it's durational i think it's i i i i don't know that I have anything that is that short, for instance, but I do think that it's about the multiplicity.

30:03For me, it's about the multiplicity of locations, the scope of the sort of landscape that you're covering, and then I think a lot of the genres that we think of as epic would be stuff like films about the Bible or films drawing from the Bible, Roman and Greek classical sword and sandals movies, King Arthur movies, knights, those kinds of things, and then westerns. I would say war films. And war films, yeah.

30:33Sean Fennessey:So The Odyssey is 172 minutes, and we just had a chance to see it, and it is in the conversation for the most epic movie ever made. I don't know if it completely fulfills every single thing that you guys outlined there. For example, I think even just sustaining the same number of background actors is like the 1967 War and Peace. Like, I don't know if anyone will ever do that again. Like there's certain kinds of movies where you just, they're not made in quite the same way. But in terms of just traveling the world, the scope of the way that the battle sequences are made and the intensity of the production design, I hadn't seen the movie when I came up with this idea, but it fits, you know?

31:17Sean Fennessey:Like it now, I think instantaneously kind of goes into that canon of these kinds of films. These kinds of films though, I would say, as I've watched more and more of them as I've gotten older, you know, they're not always good. Like just being big doesn't confirm any kind of greatness. It confirms grandeur, but... But I always kind of like them. You know what I mean? Like even like How the West was won, which has its ups and downs and is very, very long. I kind of marvel at it's just its simple act of being. And I don't mind it being on in the background for long stretches and I'll be like, oh, I can get up because they're doing this now.

31:53but it'll get back to the part that I like. Do you like them as much? I completely agree with Chris and I was doing some refreshes because many of these I have only seen once or twice because you see it, you're like, okay, they really did get all that, that many people in one place with some cameras. I like, I get it. But a funny way to kind of speed watch through a couple was just anytime it's two people in a room, you're like, okay, whatever. Like, I don't care. I can just pour it to the next end piece and the next time, that's just like the camp, you know, You get the vast expanse. But yeah, I mean, I am forever begging people to film in real places and to pay attention to production design and to all of the finery, the frippery of a movie.

32:40And sometimes they went too far. And I agree with Chris that they're not always good or it doesn't live up to the amount of money put into it. But it's really cool that they tried. I like it. I mean, I think that way, I feel that way about seeing, I'm sure when I see Odyssey on IMAX, and I kind of feel that way about watching Ten Commandments on a small TV, where I'm like, wow, this is really crazy that Cesar P. Dino just decided to do that. Yes, yeah. And I think it's fitting that we're probably doing this draft now, because one of the things that's really been a theme of Matt Damon's rather extensive and globetrotting press tour...

33:16He is running. ...is him saying... Big time. And I'll vote for him. I think this is the last one. I think this is the last one of these movies that I'll try to do or that may ever get made,

33:25Sean Fennessey:you know, like, yeah, we, we'll touch that on the Odyssey episode. I do think that's a really interesting idea. And I think it's related a little bit to like, what is Christopher Nolan going to do next? Because the escalation run that he's on now is quite fascinating. Um, his films, some of his films may be eligible here. Um, we can discuss the Odyssey will not be eligible though because it has not yet been released. Um, okay, well I'll, I'll share the categories before we set the draft order, okay? So for those of you listening along at home, as I said, Odyssey inspired epics, which includes the eight films that were programmed for the Criterion channel, as well as other Odyssey inspired movies will be eligible there.

34:00Sean Fennessey:Okay. The second category is epic best picture winners. Now, this one could be interestingly fungible is what I'll say. There are I would say about five, no doubt, full-blown epics that have won best picture. There's like 35 that you can have an argument about. Yeah, that's exactly right. The next category is biblical epic. The next category is romantic or war epic. Then we have biopic epic, which I think maybe undercuts some of your descriptors. I do think that there are some biopics that maybe don't traverse as many lands or feature as many extras, but could fit the bill. We can talk about that here.

34:40Sean Fennessey:The next category is movies that exceed three hours, of which there are many. And then the last category is wildcard. Okay. You guys feel good? Yes. Yeah. Shall we set the draft order? Yes. Yes. Okay. Jack, fire away. All right. Proper. Back to our old roots. Dungeons and Dragons die. Here we go. The Toronto fiasco. People will catch up on that in a few weeks. Well, was it really a fiasco? I didn't think it was a fiasco. Yeah. Drafting first is Christopher Ryan. Okay. Wow. Interesting. Once again. Drafting second is Sean Fennessey, Amanda Dobbins third. Okay. Interesting. I have no idea what the power rankings of this are, but you know what?

35:21Sean Fennessey:Today's Epic Movie Draft is presented by State Farm. Life is all about choices like deciding whether or not to check out the latest release in theaters. At State Farm, their goal is to help you make decisions that you feel good about. Speaking of good decisions, it's time for the first pick of the draft. CR, you've got seven categories to plug into. And my movie could go into almost every one of them. Okay. But I'm going to put it in movies over three hours. Oh, interesting. I'm going to take what I think is the number one seat, which is Lawrence of Arabia. Lawrence of Arabia. Okay, we knew that.

35:51David Lean's Masterpiece, one of my favorite movies ever made. If you get a chance ever, ever, ever to see this in 70mm, do yourself a favor. Can I just send a personal plea to American Cinematheque? I know it's a long movie, but like the 2pm 70mm screenings of Lawrence of Arabia, I just, I can't do it. It doesn't fit with my lifestyle. And all I want to do is go and see this film. I just can't abandon my children for like the eight hours required to get to Santa Monica and see this movie. But I'm desperate to. Some of the most awe-inspiring shots and sequences in terms of, you know, real locations out in the desert.

36:31Huge swaths of people storming Aqaba. Like amazing, amazing moments that you'll remember forever. But then these incredibly powerful, intimate moments of people exchanging ideas and talking about their lives and going crazy out in the desert and blowing out matches and perhaps falling in love with one another in tents and all the things that happen in this movie. and like a lot of epics is really two or three films. So I think in some ways, like the older I get, the more appreciation. It's kind of like a second half of Goodfellas thing where I actually quite like the last hour of this movie now, whereas when I was younger, I was like, once they're done really fighting the war, I lose interest and, you know, I don't need to watch Anthony Quinn remind him of morality.

37:20But man, this film is one of the true heavyweight champions of the world when it comes to global filmmaking. Can I tell you something sweet? Knox watched a lot of this with me. Did he really? Yeah, because he got home from a birthday party, from Alice's birthday party, and then was like, what you watching? And just sat down and was transfixed for almost an hour. And I think, you know, it helps that there are like planes and camels and real things happening, which he responded to. But even through the parts where it's, you know, people talking in rooms, which those you shouldn't fast forward through.

37:56Those are amazing. Peter O'Toole forever. But yeah, it held his attention.

38:02Sean Fennessey:I feel like this is the movie that every generation has been trying to live up to since. Like if you listen to the heavyweights of the new Hollywood, if you listen to the way that Spielberg and Lucas and Coppola talk about the movie, they're trying to live up to it. If you, Nolan screened this movie, or actually I think Tom Holland screened this movie at their request. It's Sony's print, right? Yes, because he had to go to Tom Rothman, who runs the studio that makes the Spider-Man movies, to screen this before they made The Odyssey. They're not, I don't think they're similar movies, The Odyssey and Lawrence of Arabia.

38:34Sean Fennessey:Their scale and scope might be somewhat similar. I think they have different things on their mind to some extent, but it's interesting to have like a benchmark, you know, where you can look back at a movie that was made 65 years ago and say, we're still trying to get to this. Yeah, I wonder if, I would imagine that for most people listening to this, if you close your eyes and I said, name an epic movie, this would be the first one that came to mind. I think so. Although I have a couple of other ideas that may or may not get drafted here because I do think that each generation gets their own. You know, they get their own totemic classic or maybe even a couple.

39:08Sean Fennessey:If you're born in the 1910s, you might see a few of these movies as the most meaningful. We may not agree on who will win this draft, but with the State Farm Personal Price Plan, you can choose the right amount of coverage to help create an affordable price. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. Okay, second pick.

39:36Sean Fennessey:I'm trying to figure out what is the category of need, right? It's tough because so many things can bleed into different categories that I don't really feel like there's like a... and the one that feels the most limited is biblical epic yeah depends on your definition of biblical will you be stretching that definition later this draft depends okay well I don't mean to wound Amanda because I know she revisited this movie but yeah this is smart I would have done it I think my best choice is to take The Last Temptation of Christ here which is Martin Scorsese's adaptation of the controversial novel that portrays Christ in a more human-like fashion which is very much an epic story, very much a biblical epic and told in a somewhat similar fashion to The Odyssey.

40:23Sean Fennessey:It came up over the weekend in a piece in USA Today that Christopher Nolan said that he watched the movie and the way, for example, that Scorsese allows the actors to use their natural accents. Hey, Jesus! Harvey Keitel giving you real outer borough Judas. You know, the movie itself is beautiful and tremendously painful and a fascinating portrait of a, I think, a deeply spiritual person in crisis. You know, like Scorsese was roundly castigated by the Catholic and Christian community for this movie. And it was supposed to be made in 1980. And then it was canceled. And Paramount got cold feet and he had to fight.

40:59Sean Fennessey:And it's sort of the story of his career to get this movie on screen. But what he ends up making, I think, is not offensive at all, but is like a very sympathetic and sincere and deep portrait of what we imagine it means to be a faithful person, a person with deep moral integrity. And I've always thought it was a great movie. It's not the Scorsese movie that I've rewatched the most times, though. You know, it's one of those, to your point about like, you watch it once or twice and you're like, okay, this is a very, it's literally a cross to bear and not always the most fun thing. But this is, I think, an outlier in this category insofar as the era in which it was made and the kind of filmmaker that made it.

41:42Sean Fennessey:Right, and the tone and the, it was fascinating to rewatch it having seen the Odyssey knowing the influence but you know the interpretation of the main character the hero yeah Christ and sure yeah you've heard of it heard of him no it was great it was definitely what I was going to pick but that's okay you know you win some you lose some I would have probably taken it even if you hadn't told me you just revisited it this morning well yeah because biblical epics is a necessary but kind of annoying category once Last Temptation is off the board It's such a huge part of Hollywood history, you know, and it had a huge golden age.

42:18Sean Fennessey:But how many of those films are actually good is an interesting conversation. Or how many do you actually want to follow up? Okay, Amanda, you got two picks now. I have two picks. And I guess I'm just going to go with my heart here a little bit. Well, I know what I'm going to do for the first one because it means a lot to me and you've got a real soft spot for it. So in romantic epic or war epic, this is both. I will take the English patient. Much maligned by Seinfeld and Sean Venesey when I made him watch it. This is like a very pregnant moment there where I thought you said Gone with the Wind.

42:55Sean Fennessey:Chris has been celebrating the 4K announcement of Gone with the Wind. He's been saying, yeah, it's a must add to his collection immediately. Is your home also Terror 2? What's the name of your house? to anyone listening atlanta we will not do a live show until the tara theater changes its name okay so you guys organize anyway uh the english patient is anthony mingela's um adaptation of the michael and doji novel uh and it famously uh beat fargo and some guys were mad but not me because i think this is an absolutely beautiful and like and and maybe one of the sexiest movies that i have ever seen and I was of an impressionable age at this point but the there are two plot lines but the Ralph Fiennes, Kristen Scott Thomas profile Herodotus you know by the fire that's just what I'm trying to be and I'm never going to get there Are you though?

43:50No but it's like I feel like you would not be into a guy reading to you by a fire Well I'm not she's telling the story and she has everyone captive you know and she's got the blanket draped over just like so What's erotic to you is having everybody's undivided attention. Yes, exactly. Thank you for understanding that. But then also the bathtub scene. Yes. Sure. The Christmas party scene. Tough one. The naming of the winds. Gosh. You know. And then there's a time every year when it's daylight savings, where daylight savings goes away and it gets dark very early. And then the lights are all gone and I'm writing alone to you in the darkness.

44:32I mean, this movie just fucking gets to me. I love it. It's beautiful. It obviously is paying homage and or stealing and not quite living up to David Lane, depending on your point of view. But I think it's a really good partner pick with Last Temptation. It's a very modern sensibility attached to a very classical film. Yes.

44:53Sean Fennessey:Reactions to Hollywood history in some ways. Yeah. Yeah. But I think it's wonderful. And I was not bored. unlike Elaine who is another person Elaine Bennis does not like the English patient in Seinfeld and I aspire to her I think it's fine I really like Miguel as a filmmaker it's not my favorite of his movies heartless you know you don't know what it is the romantic epic is a tricky thing it's a really tricky thing and I it isn't it isn't my preferred mode of film as listeners of this show no the romance I kind of struggle with not that I don't love romance You know, many are saying, I'm a romantic at heart.

45:33Yeah, that's what everyone says when they think of you. Yeah, this is a beautiful movie. Okay, so I have a second pick.

45:43And I'm trying... I don't know how many of the other things I think you guys are going to rip away from me at this point. That's my real passion. And I wanted Last Temptation for tactical reasons. But maybe... Maybe I'll go with what I really want. And perhaps this will give us an opportunity to debate the definition of epic a little more. But in three hours or more, I'm going straight to the heart of both of you and taking JFK.

46:14Sean Fennessey:So I do have it on the list. I think it's eligible. I have it on the list. I do have it on the list. Sure it is. Let me ask you this. Yeah. It's certainly eligible in three hours or more. Yeah. Is it eligible in biopic? but not as a portrait of John but is it a Jim Garrison biopic? I think certainly that's plausible. I'm taking it in three hours or more I think this is a great pick. Because I think that while it could be eligible in biopic, it obviously is more lasting and more honest as a fever dream about an entire generation of people not understanding what happened and going slightly crazy trying to figure out.

46:56Or understanding it all too well. Understanding it all too well and teaching the rest of us their secrets. I see you, Mr. X. So, I love this film. Maybe not quite as much as you guys do, but like a lot. I think we love it for different reasons. And I love this episode of the Rewatchables more than Ed. This is my all-time number one episode of the Rewatchables. When Sean thought that the CIA was going to kick down the door to arrest him.

47:18Sean Fennessey:I wanted to talk about the filmmaking. We got there. I thought that was the most extraordinary part of the film. You did get there. But I mean, just Bill and Chris, just 30 minutes in. And Brian. And Brian as well. But you know, I still have follow-up questions for Bill about some of the things that he said. Anyway, Oliver Stone. You think it was the mafia? Who do you think did it? What do you think that that's right? The mafia was hired by the CIA? I think it was primarily a CIA operation that extended to Cuban dissidents and the mafia. Okay. Extended to. Can you define that? that brought them into the fold.

47:55I see.

47:56Sean Fennessey:How many... There's a lot of debate about... How many men knew? Who was calling the shots? Yes. Or if there was even ahead of the snake. It was an idea that got out of control, which is the Delilo thesis. Yeah. I mean, I was going to say, I read Libra a couple years ago, and points were made. You know? It's like... I understand. It's plausible to me. But that's kind of everyone mingling together and taking advantage of... I do think, I just feel like Mr. X was onto something. Maybe not in the details of what he shares, but in the manner in which he shares it. The fact that there is some sort of larger conspiracy in the world at large inside of government doors, I do believe in that.

48:39Sean Fennessey:And this is not some QAnon thing. Of course. I think for 200 years, this is how power operates. I've seen it up close and I'll never forget. Okay. Okay. I got to make a pick. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Now, do you feel the need to be selecting epic old heavyweights? Like, obviously, you've chosen one, and now we've chosen three fairly contemporary films here. Is there something just more centrally epic about a movie that was made 75 years ago? I think the reason why they're still held, if not in high critical regard, like, oh, great film, dude, is just sort of like, you have to respect real horses died during making this.

49:19You know? You have to respect what we used to do. And we are losing the fine arts. We don't throw cars off of cliffs anymore. Stunt men don't get dragged behind carts. That's when you watch these movies. You are watching people literally put their lives on the line to entertain you. It's like jackass. You have to respect it even if you don't like it.

49:43Sean Fennessey:Okay. With that in mind, then I will take Akira Kurosawa's Seven Samurai in movies that exceed three hours. There you go, Big John. Yeah, there you go. One of the largest scale productions ever. One of the longest movies commercially released at the time. More like best movies ever draft. Yeah, this came to mind when I was thinking of this idea. I was like, how many of these will be all-time mega classics? But like, we really haven't not talked about Seven Samurai that much on the show over the years. It doesn't fit. We did it when we did Kurosawa, right? Didn't you and I do a Kurosawa? We did Mufune.

50:11Sean Fennessey:We did Mufune turning 100. So we watched a bunch of Mufune movies and talked about it. Of course, Mufune is the star of this movie. Takashi Shimura, many of the major stars of the Kurosawa films. This is the biggest. It's not my favorite, but it is the most. It's the most movie I think that he's ever made. Runtime exceeds 200 minutes. An epic story about seven men standing up against a massive army to protect a small town. Been reimagined and retold many times over the years through Hollywood eyes and elsewhere. Just a feast, you know? An epic feast. that is still being imitated to this day. And I don't know.

50:54Sean Fennessey:I really love a long movie. Like I love a three and a half hour movie if I like the movie. If I hate the movie, I'm not as angry about it as other people are. Sometimes you get like a very hostile reaction if you've got a long film that doesn't live up. But I remember we talked about this a bit during the Brutalist era, you know, where I was just like, just throw it on me. Like put another hour on it. I'm into it, you know? So stuff like this when I was younger, you know my friends would make fun of me for being like I'm gonna watch seven samurai when I was in high school but I don't regret it now but the thing with with an epic movie in particular is that it is told with the scale and intent for it to be large and have a lot of things and thus like be long that is part of the proposition I get frustrated when it's a movie that really just it could have been a tight 150 you know and because of people not making choices or things just getting a little bloated.

51:45The movie overruns. It's, you know, designated ideal time. But these are supposed to be big. And I, again, I like it when people try things. Yeah, it's funny how, like, the mechanics of, like, one of the Star Wars sequels, while having a lot of the trappings of what would be an epic film, like, didn't even occur to me to put in contention, you know? Not that I would pick, you know?

52:04Sean Fennessey:Yeah, yeah. I know what you mean. The Last Jedi, but you know what I mean, yeah. The Last Jedi, you say? Not that I would pick it, but that goes to multiple planets. Not that you would. It has, like, huge scale. Because that's not your Luke Skywalker? Why would you not choose it? What is it? Order 66? I'm an Order 66 truther. Okay, Sierra, you've got two picks. Okay. For romantic epic, stay alive. I will find you. I'm going to call Last of the Mohicans here. That's beautiful. This is Michael Mann's 92, I believe, adaptation of James Fenimore Cooper's Legendary. like it's a legendary book. It's one of the most sort of foundational U.S.

52:47texts in fiction. Anyway, also like is regarded, I think, well or remembered more for its battle scenes for Wes Studi's incredible performance as Magwa, but like really the heart of the film is this romance between Daniel Day-Lewis's character and Madeline Stowe's character and, you know, this is a guy who's living out in the woods and has been raised by indigenous peoples and this British aristocrat comes over, this daughter of a British officer, and yet they connect and have like this kind of primal star-crossed lovers thing. And he goes over waterfalls and up mountains to make sure she's okay.

53:32And that's what it's all about. And that doesn't speak to you at all.

53:34Sean Fennessey:I will find you, love you, marry you. Yeah, sure, of course. I'm a fan of this film it's an hour and 50 minutes well it's okay you don't think this is epic? I do think it's epic I think it counts listen rules are made to be broken it's why I asked that question and Michael Mann drove people totally insane making this where he was just like you have to weave that quilt and cobble that shoe there's only one thing that could have made this movie better do you know what it is? score by audio slave that would have really improved it otherwise great film great pick you got another pick CR I have such a desire to mix it up in terms of era you did a nice thing there by you both did you weaved romantic and war epic sure do I have to do the same should it have been romantic war epic I mean which romantic epics don't involve war or great strife and loss that's a very interesting question they are like intrinsic not all war epics have a romance.

54:40Strife, yes. Sure. You know, Titanic, it's not a war. Yeah, that's true. Well, it's a class war, you know.

54:48Sean Fennessey:Amen, sister. That's absolutely right. You were siding with Billy Zane. We all know it.

54:56For biographical epic. Yeah. I'm going to go Malcolm X. Okay. I wanted this. I was hoping it would still be there. God damn it. So we're really... That might have been my next pick. Smash in the 90s. But the reason why I was drawn to this, not only because it's just one of the great American films, is also because it pulls off the most difficult task of one of these movies, which is to convincingly take someone from a very young age to the end of their life and not have it feel boring or Wikipedia. And you are so rooted in Malcolm X's subjectivity throughout this movie. the film's color scheme and musical identity changed throughout the years and throughout the decades and throughout his change in consciousness.

55:41And it's one of the great performances, I think, in movie history from Denzel Washington. But it also actually feels like a story where someone starts someplace and ends someplace else on every possible level of humanity. And I had to grab this one here. That was a good pick. I was going to do that. So good job. It's interesting. I mean, we have so many films, but there are some cream of the crop ones, I guess.

56:08Sean Fennessey:Yeah, there's going to be a long list of honorable mentions. It's interesting. I mean, you know, we're betraying our generational favor, I would say, by some of these picks. I'll do it with my pick as well. I'm going to choose in the same category, biopic epic, and I'll take Amadeus, which is kind of a dual biopic in a way. Delete that from the list. It's okay. I got one more. It's going to be okay. Told in unusual fashion based on Anthony Schaeffer's play directed by Milos Forman. It's the story. The series is pretty good, by the way. The one that just came out. Yeah, I haven't watched that yet.

56:37Sean Fennessey:Who's the star? Bettany. Oh, Paul Bettany. And is he playing Salieri? Yes. Okay, so. Ooh. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. At his age at this point. And Will Sharp is. Oh, fun. Okay. Mozart. So this is the story of Mozart and Salieri, two Viennese composers. through the eyes of Salieri, sort of in the aftermath of, is that he's just attempted suicide and he's survived. And so he starts telling the story of his life and career through the prism of watching Mozart rise to genius in real time in this complex battle between his admiration for Mozart's evident greatness and his jealousy and the way that the jealousy is sort of like he constantly is kind of working to undermine Mozart in the face of the court and failing.

57:23Sean Fennessey:Very fun performance from Tom Holtz. Hulse as Mozart, you know, very ecstatic at a time when it seemed like Tom Hulse really had Hollywood in the grip of his hand. And, yeah, I mean, of course, F. Murray Abraham won an Academy Award for his performance as Salieri and maybe the biggest movie that Foreman ever made. Foreman, no stranger to an epic, but just an amazing film and one of those films that, like, you hear about when you're a young person that, like, actually lives up, you know, that, like, lives up to its AFI 100 films billing. Did you take this in bio or in Oscar? I'm taking a biopic.

57:55Sean Fennessey:Okay. Although you could take it in Oscar as well. At the Hollywood Bowl last night, I saw that they're doing Amadeus Live in concert this summer, which would be very fun. Yeah. Yeah. And then he's like, that's good. Okay. Is it the LA Phil performing? I believe so. Yeah. The Mozart. Risen from the grave. AI Mozart. We brought him back. AI Mozart. Wow. I'm sure millions of people are doing that. It's like a Waymo robot. Be like. Okay. All right. Okay, so... How long is Amadeus? Let's take a quick look. It is 161 minutes. Yeah, longer than I remember. Pretty long.

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59:32Sean Fennessey:Buyer's remorse. Buy a new car? I'll be moving in. Let's get started. Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana. You what? Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no... No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyer's rejoice. I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it. Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com. Okay, so you've had two taken away from you. So I've learned that I got to lock my biopic down. So in biopic epic, I will take reds.

1:00:09There you go. The 1981 Warren Beatty film that we talked a great deal about on the Diane Keaton Hall of Fame because it stars Beatty, Dan Keaton, Jack Nicholson. This also obviously would be eligible in Romantic Epic. It would. If you were mine, scene. Really very special. And then I guess could be eligible. Well, Romance and War are the same thing. So this is another one where it's political. Yeah, it fits the same struggle. I should have taken it. What was I doing? Not eligible in Best Picture winner because it lost to Chariots of Fire. but does this count as modern? This feels you know newer than the 50s, 60s but it is also feels a very different generation than ours.

1:00:56Sean Fennessey:It's an interesting pick because I think the conversation that we want to have about the Odyssey will never be able to make movies like this again. I think there was some sense of that around a movie like Reds at the time and one of the reasons it was so honored was because it was like well this is like the culmination of 10 years of greatness that Hollywood's been churning out with these kind of unabashed auteurs and they're taking these huge chances on epic canvases. So I don't know, can't ever close the book on them, but this is an amazing movie. Incredible movie and definitely over three hours long.

1:01:24So I guess it would have been eligible in many of the categories. Yeah. I would like to see you featured 30 years from now in a similar fashion the way Henry

1:01:33Sean Fennessey:Miller's featured in this movie, testimonial style. What would you be taught? What would they be bringing you in to talk about? Henry Miller, the novelist, he's one of the witnesses. Oh, okay. Who speaks about... Because Eugene O 'Neill is in it, right? He is a character in it, but Henry Miller is interviewed as one of the people who witnessed John Reed and Louise Bryant. You two? I'm asking you. What do you think you would be asked to speak about? Do you think there's going to be a film, an epic film about me and Amanda? I think I would look great in those hats. I think that that would work out for me.

1:02:03What are those called? The Louise Bryant hats? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They are awesome. I mean, Jahan Keaton is just like on the tundra alone for a good solid point of 20 minutes of this movie. She's unbelievable in this movie. She's so good. I didn't hear the Hall of Fame peeing. Yeah, Reds did make it. Don't worry.

1:02:20Sean Fennessey:Yeah, it made it. Don't worry. What is it? Ushanka? What are those hats called? With the flaps and the big... Oh, yeah. Yeah, did hers have flaps? I don't know about that. Anyway. Could be a Cossack, but isn't a Cossack something else as well? Aren't they violent marauders? We did explore on that episode how our knowledge of Russian literature and culture is limited. It is quite limited. Yours is robust. It's really jagged, though. So, like, I have about several tomes half finished. You're right. 12 19ths through Anakurin. Right. And then I watched Star City to completion. That's good. Pushkin?

1:02:59Never dabbled. Turgenev?

1:03:02Sean Fennessey:Nope. Father and Sons? Not so much. Not done it. okay so I have a second pick here and I don't know whether to be not so much pushing Turgon of Drive by by Vanda I just just haven't read it haven't read it so I could be strategic or I could kind of go with my heart here and I think I don't know I think it's already been mentioned so in epic best picture winners well I don't know What should I do here? Oh, boy. Oh, my goodness. You rarely see the queen sweat. A zigzag. Jeez. Unsure. Well, I just, I guess I should do, honestly. What's your color story? What do you want to say about yourself at this pick?

1:03:49Well, I've already said what I want to say with English Patient and Reds. That's true. And JFK, which just features a lot of really hot people, as some of them are solving conspiracies, and the others are having. He does. Tommy Lee Jones. Absolutely. Some of the hottest shit you'll ever see. love triangles, you know? Among other things, yeah. That's true.

1:04:09Sean Fennessey:Insane wig work in there, yeah. Love triangle between the CIA and Mara. You sure? Exactly, you know? The greatest love affair of all. So, that's my color story, our love triangles. And this doesn't really... You should pick with your heart. I mean, my heart also does have a love triangle. Did you get biblical yet? No, that's the thing. Should I do biblical? I'm going to do biblical. Yeah. So I'm going to take Ben-Hur because whatever. But the chariot scene. Yeah. That's pretty awesome. Okay. You know, speaking of forces who died, it's an R.A.P. to them. So many. It's really insane that they did that and for how long they did that.

1:04:49And it's incredibly memorable. Do you think Cecil B. DeMille would recognize Hollywood today? and it's woke culture?

1:04:57Sean Fennessey:Interesting question. Yes. You know, I watched Ben Hurd for the first time during COVID. I'd never seen it before. And I say this with respect. I was surprised how gay it was. It's like a shockingly homoerotic film about men sort of returning from war to be reunited. And they're sort of like, brother, it is I. And like clutching each other in very dramatic fashion. And obviously there's something in a lot of biblical storytelling that has that. And they parade around with horses. But there's a lot of sort of their epic passion for lost love amongst men. It's a huge part of the film. You don't relate to that?

1:05:35I get it. I get it.

1:05:37Sean Fennessey:You know, as somebody who has deep bonds with male friends. Yeah. Ben-Hur, I would say intermittently great, but when it's great, its greatness is like the ceiling. Yes. In terms of epic Hollywood filmmaking. Of course. Yeah. So you fast forward through to get the vistas and the chariot race. And then when it's Charlton Heston in a dark room, kind of recreating a Rembrandt with someone else. He's in a stable and he's got his hand on a man's shoulders. And you're like, you guys are really close to each other. What's so great about it being on during the holidays when it would just be on TNT for 24 hours.

1:06:14It was completely like I have no recollection at all of what the narrative is. And whenever Chuck would go into a dark room, I'd just get another turkey sandwich.

1:06:26Sean Fennessey:Okay. So I was strategic. So is it back to me? It is. Sheesh. Well, I'm really betwixt and between. I guess for romantic or war epic, I'll take the deer hunter. Okay. Which I think is a war epic, is it not? Of course it is. It's very romantic. We don't have a war epic category, do we? I have romantic or war there. Or war. Yeah, you didn't have to do romance. Gotcha. But you did anyway. Yeah. That's why I was saying when you chose Last of the Mohicans, you kind of fused the category The romantic part of Last of the Mohicans is when he tears his fucking heart out and shows it to everybody. That's true love.

1:07:09Sean Fennessey:Michael Cimino's Best Picture winning would also be eligible in Best Picture. story of four friends from a steel town in Pennsylvania who fall in love with their girlfriends. One of them gets married and then they go to Vietnam and terrible things happen there and they're forced to live with the trauma and PTSD of what they did there and what happened to them. And some of them don't really come back. Some come back, but none of them really come back. A beautiful movie, Robert De Niro, Meryl Streep, Christopher Walken, John Savage. yeah I mean it's I think also sort of similar to Amadeus like sort of redefines how you might think about a war movie this isn't a movie that is like defined by its battlefields it's defined by everything surrounding those experiences but very much of its time very much commenting on a group of young men who were just coming back from Vietnam and sort of like the flip side to other big epic movies like Apocalypse Now which may come up in this conversation and a movie that I've always really loved and it's kind of the end in a way for Chimino because he makes Heaven's Gate next and that augers the end of that Reds era that we're talking about and um you know I did just pick up his film Desperate Hours in Canada Mickey Rourke kidnapping that's right um I like that film yeah I do too I got it on blu-ray what did man say about Mickey Rourke on the draft that we did it was tough hang I don't know it was funny bad boxer yeah good boxer I really had no idea he was probably a good boxer was he yeah he was also he was just more than I ever did he was also the pope of Greenwich Village it's true were you ever the Pope of a neighborhood?

1:08:41Hillhurst right now.

1:08:42Sean Fennessey:You are the Pope of Hillhurst. No, I don't have that kind of sway on Hillhurst. It's not like they see me coming and they're like, here's your table, sir. There is nothing more fun than walking down Hillhurst with you. It was 2015. Other men in chore jackets. Sir, sir. Such a big fan. I never do this. It was early. It was January 2015. We went to Little Dom's. Me, Eileen, and Phoebe. The ringer had not even started yet. And, you know, I think we had a couple of penicillins. You know, I like to have the penicillin at Little Doms. And maybe some meatballs. Maybe some arancini. And we walked out and three of those chore-coated men that Amanda was describing came out.

1:09:20Sean Fennessey:They all had beards of some fashion. You could tell they were willing to craft cocktails. As if you're not. In 2015, you just name-checked a penicillin. They re-watched Band of Brothers like every two years. And they were named like Tyler, Lyle, and Keith. perfect and they they grabbed you by the shoulders and they said sir your great works will live on in me thank you for everything you've done and lo yeah here you are we've launched so much around that yeah you know you are you're a beautiful ship yeah that's right okay you got picks uh okay you just have one pick no I have several really two right oh wow yeah I'm just really sitting on the edge you gotta wait for a little while Amanda okay What categories do you have, Chris?

1:10:09Sean Fennessey:Do you know? Yeah, I have Oscar. Well, remaining, you mean? Oscar, biblical, and wildcard. And what about Odyssey-inspired epic? Odyssey-inspired. So we have former picks left? Yeah. Well, for Odyssey-inspired, I'm going to go with The Searchers, which is John Ford's Western. Yeah. That is about the cost of going home or the cost of trying to get back home. This is a film about John Wayne's character, Ethan, who is not really fit for the increasingly modernized and civilized Wild West going to quote unquote rescue his niece from Apaches, I believe, when she was kidnapped as a child. And it's an incredible epic tale of going out and coming back.

1:11:01But what it costs the people who do it and the um the myths that they tell themselves about why they're doing what they're doing and um i know it's like a somewhat you know controversial film in some ways but is honestly one of the most amazing things to look at that i've ever seen on a screen

1:11:22Sean Fennessey:great 4k was back in the news and for one battle after another of course many overt acknowledgements of, you know, kidnapped young girl and there's an Apache figure who figures prominently in the story. Huge framework for the movie. So I'll take that in movies inspired by the Odyssey. And then in best picture epic, I'm going to go double lean and I'm going to take Bridge on the River Kwai. Look at you. So 57 and this is Double lean. I'm drinking lean. this is David Lean's World War II epic do you think DJ Screw liked David Lean films I don't see why not probably right just leaning back on some promethazine I wish he would have sampled some William Holden dialogue from this movie wow Alec Innes and William Holden and Jack Hawkins playing prisoners of war in World War II and they gotta build a bridge you know and sometimes Sometimes that's a foolish thing to do.

1:12:26Do you think you'd be good at building a bridge? I think I would be good at getting people excited about the project. The engineering aspect. And honestly, you know what? I think I do feel like this is probably my last couple of years that I can carry planks of wood and stuff like that before I enter my wife keeping me propped up in a hospital bed with a newspaper to prove that I'm alive. Yeah.

1:12:55He's alive. Come on.

1:12:58Sean Fennessey:I love Burge on the River Kwai. I love this film. Were you going to take it? I forgot to write it down. Okay. Wow. Yeah, I just forgot. So let me bring you up. I probably would have taken it three rounds ago. Let me bring you up to speed, Chris. So you guys, I got out of the van on Friday. You dropped us. That's where I was starting. You dropped us off at the first terminal. You continue on your way to live your East Coast life. Terminal three. And we sat in the lounge and like sort of talked to each other, sort of looked at our phones. It was a nice time. Yeah. Nice to Amanda. Not me. And then we get on the plane and I think like plane Sean is about to be upon us.

1:13:44You know, I've prepared the inbox. I've prepared my mental state to get ready for plane Sean. He held it at bay while we waited for the plane, which I appreciated. And then we get there and I'm getting ready to do all my prep for this draft. No Wi-Fi. No Wi-Fi to be had. Five hours. Nothing but my own brain. Small talk. Well, we weren't sitting together. Oh, too bad. Yeah. And we didn't really. So, no, I slept.

1:14:10Sean Fennessey:Yeah. I just raw-dogged it the whole time. Hands in my lap. Anyway. So, that means... Just clearing out the mechanism. No, it's not true. What I did is I watched the Guy Ritchie film In the Gray. I had a nice time was that on the no I downloaded it on my laptop for just this just this occasion oh in case of emergencies yes and did you read I read his final no I've already read the Rad and Keefe it's really good yeah I tried to have a whole conversation with you about it I know this is what what happened to us I don't we were off sync that's all I know but we talked about this and I was like it really helps me understand London you know I know it's just like one person's story I guess it's when you were giving me the news digest about Captain Pinhead or whatever.

1:14:50Captain Bin, Count Bin Face, yes. Captain Pinhead. Pinhead from Hellraiser? Is he figuring into British politics? I don't understand what I did in the van ride out there that was so controversial. Well, it's, you just, at some point, you didn't think we were funny anymore.

1:15:04Sean Fennessey:Here's what I remember. We were talking about things that would be on each other's family crest. Oh, yeah. And the things that would be on my crest that I described sincerely were chicken, because I love chicken, remembering the good times that would be represented somehow, and then a third thing of indiscriminate memory. I don't remember what that was. Do you know what it is? I think before a live show, you guys have to be 1 ,000 % yourselves and you're like, I must buy media. And you're like, I have to buy a Celine dress. And then as soon as it's over, you're like, I'm a fucking goofball. And I'm like, well, I've still got work to do out there.

1:15:36Yeah, you do. I'm Chris Ryan 24-7. You got to shake Tyler

1:15:40Sean Fennessey:and Keith's hand and look them in the eye and make their day. Okay. You have another pick, right? You took Bridge on the River Kwai. and what was the other one? The Searchers. Oh, The Searchers. Wonderful. Those are good films. Yeah, I picked some cool movies. I've heard of those films. Okay, Odyssey-inspired epics, I'll take Oh Brother Where Art Thou, which is a film I feel like I keep overlooking. It's kind of becoming your brand, though, when we talk about Wes Anderson, is to be like, and what about the Darjeeling Limited? So it's good that you did this here. Well, this is sort of my Darjeeling Limited for the Coens, right?

1:16:09Sean Fennessey:The movie that I overlooked and maybe didn't take as seriously. Yeah, the real ones know Darjeeling Limited is kind of high up there for Wes. But that took years to happen. Upon release, everybody was like, oh, actually, Wes Anderson, are we sure? And now you go back, you look, you know, Claire de Lune drops, let's get high, and they're around the fire. Like, that's the real shit. Wes is the man. Like, I gotta say, when I was at the bowl thing, everybody wandering around was like, we all know Asteroid City is the one. Like, there was, like, a lot of that going on, which is nice. It's nice to be amongst your people.

1:16:41Bro, men, crying, whispering.

1:16:44Sean Fennessey:Yes, talking to my five-year-old. Oh Brother Where Art Thou is of course not Wes it's the Coen brothers oh wait I thought you picked our dealing limited sorry I was looking at my list I'm sick it's still available it's still available Oh Brother Where Art Thou is the Odyssey in many ways it's also the tale of the Soggy Bottom Boys and a trio of aspirant how would you describe their music? bluegrass hillbilly bluegrass gospel tinged bluegrass I guess hysterical movie ingenious construction around Homer's epic poem, but with a very specific Cohen's set of humor and pathos, I guess. George Clooney, never better.

1:17:26Tim Blake Nelson, incredible in this.

1:17:28Sean Fennessey:Yeah, John Turturro. Yeah. Goodman. Wonderful cast all around. Goodman's in this, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, he's... He's like the Cyclops-esque figure. And yeah, I love this movie. It's a great one. It's honestly probably worth a revisit after seeing The Odyssey and just seeing just how close it is in the episodic fashion of the Nolan film. The Coen's really robbed us because when they broke up, I feel like we haven't really gotten to pod about them as much as we would have. No, I did Buster Scruggs with Adam, I remember. And then that's their last film. So yeah. Did we do Hail Caesar? Was that out?

1:18:03Sean Fennessey:No, that came out before the show started. 2016, right? Yeah, I think so. Hail Caesar. I think it was like first year of The Ringer when it came out. Thought at the Arclight when that still existed. Yeah. They're the greatest. I got my fingers crossed on Jack of Spades. The Ethan films hasn't been going so well. Joel, we've really only gotten Tragedy of Macbeth. When are we going to get EPMD back together? Great question. I mean, hopefully soon. Is that Ethan and Joel making dollars? EJMD? Yeah, that would be pretty good. All right, Amanda, you've got two picks. So Darjeeling is on the board for you.

1:18:35Sean Fennessey:Well, good. I was looking at my list. So in Odyssey-inspired epics, I would like to put forth The Wizard of Oz. Sure. Which is about a girl getting home. So, you know, maybe not, it doesn't speak as much to the other people on this table. Are girls allowed to be in these movies? Does Daniel Day-Lewis save her? But I mean, otherwise has all of the hallmarks. It's like she's, there is no place like home. Gets waylaid by various weird people and drugs and a mythology of a world that she is not totally familiar with, but learns over time with the help of various deities. So... A Cambelian hero's journey.

1:19:18Yeah. So there we go. The Wizard of Oz. Pretty good movie. Don't go to the sphere version. See the whole thing, please. Yeah.

1:19:26Sean Fennessey:I think watch it in full and then go to the sphere. Sure. It would be interesting. Yeah. But don't start there. Exactly. That would be a weird way to start. Correct. But, you know, Darjeeling Limited was going to be my backup. Okay. And then... That's all you got to say about The Wizard of Oz, huh? Well, I think we've talked about it once or twice. I have compared it to The Odyssey, which was the parameters of my pick in this one. Yeah, what a beautiful movie. Yeah, I love it. It's my favorite movie. I know. Why didn't you pick it? I didn't think about it. I didn't have Wi-Fi on the plane. You forgot all the Oscar winners?

1:20:00Sean Fennessey:I didn't have Wi-Fi on the plane. I don't know what you want me to say. Do you think that this movie was robbed by Gone with the Wind?

1:20:07Yeah, I guess so. I mean, I understand the accomplishment of Gone with the Wind. It is a great film.

1:20:13Sean Fennessey:It is made in hateful history, no doubt. There's a lot of really rich clipping material you're providing people today. You're probably right. The Bible is gay. Gone with the Wind is great. I mean, both things can be true. I agree. There's lots of really amazing stuff in Gone with the Wind. but the Wizard of Oz you know this single moment of it going from black and white to color is just like you know it has become a stand-in for or like a shorthand for like a transformative experience but that's what it was for movies as well so and you know it's beautiful they share a director sort of Victor Fleming who's an accredited filmmaker on both films right even though the Wizard of Oz had like four filmmakers attached to it okay Okay, so you have Gone With Wind.

1:21:05Sean Fennessey:Did you take a second choice as well? Okay. So, epic best picture winners. You may have backed yourself into a bit of a corner here. No, I don't think so. No? I think I'm going to do... So are we not counting Godfather Part 2 as an epic? It is an epic for sure. Yeah, so I'm going to take Godfather Part 2. Okay. You're just nodding your head? I was kind of hoping you would have to take Patton. There's a lot left, I think. Yeah, there's a lot. I'm picking from other good things. But this is, I still think the single greatest screen performance out Pacino in Godfather 2 that I have seen. I mean, there are many good ones out there, but I picked this one.

1:21:46And...

1:21:46Sean Fennessey:I thought you were going to say Abe Vigoda. Also a good performance. Yeah. But I think, you know, as to its epic qualities, it's multi-generational, multiple locations. Sure. Jumps time. Yeah. Jumps international things. crisis of family and of life and death and also the CIA or the mob is somewhat involved. Over the Godfather. We have this conversation every time we talk about this. In this format, you would take it over the Godfather. I actually think she's right because it has the flashback. You think it makes him more epic? I do. Because of the time quality. I mean, he goes to Italy. Sure.

1:22:33Sean Fennessey:Sure. Yeah, but it's like, you know. They blow up that car. They do. That's very upsetting. And then he's in the car. Oh. Well, you and Bill spoke very specifically about that young actress. I don't think we were aware of what we were saying at the time. Okay. I can neither confirm nor deny that I was aware. I see. All right. Continue on. Yes. I feel for the purposes of this exercise, part two is more epic. And part two is really good. Hades will remember. so is part one you know they're both really good what about part three what is the longer run time I don't know the answer to that I think two two probably two is three longer no right 2.55 for the Godfather and 3.22 is what I'm looking at for Godfather part two so there and what's three just out of curiosity didn't google that three is nine hours two hours 40 minutes yeah as you know three is good but I'm not really, I really enjoy it.

1:23:34Sean Fennessey:And it has flaws, sure. You know what else has flaws? The Bible. These things have flaws. You're so right. Thank you. Nice to hear that out loud. Clip that. I say I was wrong. I say you were right when those things apply. Which is frequently. Okay. You've gotten two films. Yes. So I'm going to take a film. I got The Wizard of Oz and The Godfather Part 2, which is really slumming it over here. Crazy, crazy draft. epic best picture winners I'll tell you what I'll take The Lord of the Rings The Return of the King the rare fantasy film that neatly fits into this so now when he gets the ring who's he who's he the ring goes no the ring goes into the volcano well he touches the ring for one second Sauron nope no Sauron is the he's the villain tree people no I don't think you're being serious I think you know more than you're letting on isn't this a great movie this movie yeah it's the third best of the trilogy wow he's turning I think that's right I think that's right I I am most swept up in the fellowship of the ring I think two towers has the most epic battles that's got homes deep but three three is really satisfying until you get to the third ending and then like hold on two more endings do you know how long the extended version of the return of the king is the extended version that you know people know it's like four hours four hours and 13 minutes.

1:25:00Sean Fennessey:She's never seen it. Do you know which? Yes, I have. Do you know what the towers are? No. Okay. Don't tell her. You're just so mad. I saw two towers into Return of the King, like in college. And it wasn't for a boy also, because that was not the flavor that I was going for. Why were you crying? I don't know. Why are you crying? Because I was trying not to laugh. As you guys just said, Lord of the Rings words to each other. We didn't even geek out. Would you have made Fellowship of the Ring available for movies inspired by the Odyssey? Hmm. Hmm. I don't think so because it doesn't complete it. You can't pick the trilogy, right?

1:25:42That's when those guys start whining about going home.

1:25:45Sean Fennessey:That's true. If you were given prime real estate in the Shire, would you take it? The Shire is an incredible investment opportunity.

1:25:56And also, neighborhood would you compare it to? I would feel like Wendy at the Shire. Because those guys are all four feet tall, so I'd be like, you guys want to play pickup? You have to be dunking on Frodo. You're like, I bet you wish you fucking fell in that volcano, dog.

1:26:17That's good.

1:26:18Sean Fennessey:Yeah. That's funny. Remember the photo of, I think it was Paul Meskel and Andrew Scott, and our greatest British man. Yeah, the Hobbits after Shire opened to Zara. It's really very good. Good job. Whose turn is it now? Your turn. Okay. I have biblical... How's no laptop going? Pretty well. Okay. I mean, I feel definitely like I'm just hanging on your every word. Okay. Yeah. And not getting distracted by... With no laptop, you've drafted three men and a little lady and heartburn in the epic movie draft. Here, let's spice it up a little bit. Okay. Let's throw a little cayenne in here and let me see how much you guys like me.

1:26:57Because in biblical epic, I'm going to take Kingdom of Heaven, the director's cut. I think that that's not technically about the Bible. But crusades and in defense of. I wondered whether you would do this. If you don't have the Bible, there is no Kingdom of Heaven. You say what? The crusades, though, are not enumerated in the Bible, which is a point of contention.

1:27:18Sean Fennessey:I will allow it because I did not define biblical epic by saying it. It must be stories of the Bible represented on screen. It is a war over the Bible. That's just because he likes you. And also because he thinks the Bible has a lot of homoerotic tendencies. And he's showing his love. All the filmic representations of the stories. You know? I mean, biblical is right there in the title. But I think it's fine. Well, I had said, I texted you and said, do you think we should make this religious epic? Because that way it's more non-denominational. oh okay so you could well why don't you say that to old Hollywood kingdom of heaven you know it's a it's a spiritually religious epic you know it's not necessarily a book of the bible but rooted in it um yeah I think it's okay I think the extended version I don't think you should be able to choose why why not because that was just like that wasn't released theatrically right what that's what you're standing on right now we're not choosing extended editions listen First of all, you're just absolutely, you're stabbing Joanna in the heart right now.

1:28:25And I say that as someone who thought that it's like... Because of the EZA controversy. But I was, I thought that you made the correct decision. I thought it was very, very apparent. Yeah, it's kind of like sending the Swiss guy off for simulation. It's like it hurts, but you have to do it. Okay.

1:28:39Sean Fennessey:Okay, we're not talking about that. But then you're going to allow him to... After flop central from Argentina for five straight matches, get out of here. We know it would be a funny wrinkle for this podcast if we gave you yellow and red cards. and you could start showing them. Yeah, you'd be sent off in five minutes in every episode. And then maybe if we disagree with it, you would go to VAR. But just me? Only I get the yellow and red cards? Yeah, you're the most referee of us, I think. I think you would get the biggest thrill sending me off. I mean, I've been begging for props, you know? And yellow and red cards have become a big deal in my house.

1:29:12But for whatever reason, Knox thinks of them as tickets. So he's like, Cy gets a red ticket and then just runs away. so yes I think that's great the thing here is I mean biblical epic is very clear you know this folds I don't know let's see the peanut gallery there's no appeal process here like in a court of law like I don't know what we're doing but I like that he wants to give it to you because of friendship but then the reason that he's going to disqualify it is because of theatrical runs rather than the very obvious title the director's cut had a road show is that true yes where at theaters at some theaters which theaters name i think like it was at like the arrow uh you might be right you might be looking it up right now what happened to you on that plane you really lost your fastball it's been an insane five days honestly but it started when you were just like i don't care what's happening to leos and the planets oh that was just really can i i'll just say tell you what i don't remember you ever talking about astrology this much.

1:30:20And I think that's because the planets were not aligned in our favor until yesterday was the day. July 12th was when we were supposed to start taking action. I don't remember what I did to take action, but it's a long process until 2028. Sometimes you guys are going to be taking action until 20. And then and everything is aligned for us. And I was trying to tell Sean about that, my fellow Leo. And you were like, get out of here.

1:30:46Sean Fennessey:If I haven't been taking action before, I don't know what else I can do. I feel like I'm at the end. I feel like I gotta wrap this shit up. The Kingdom of Heaven Director's Cut was released on December 23rd, 2005 at the Lemley Fairfax Theater in Los Angeles, eligible. It was unsupported by advertising from 20th Century Fox. They didn't want people to see Ridley's Vision. Too bad I saw it. Did you see it in theaters? No. Okay. Did you see it at the theater at which it was released? It's unclear if it played other theaters. Do you have that steelbook? No. I don't have any steelbooks. Not a single steelbook?

1:31:22No. I bought Hunt for Red October on steelbook. Okay, that seems valid. That's beautiful. It may have been 100 Canadian dollars. I didn't really understand the transaction. Well, steelbooks are expensive. That's the problem with them.

1:31:34Sean Fennessey:Okay, so did you take two films? You got a wild card, right? Oh, so I took Biblical. Kingdom of Heaven. Kingdom of Heaven Director's Cut to you. I mean, Justice for Joanna. but kingdom of heaven. I mean, Joanna can have a revenge and she will. I, you know, I agreed with your ruling then and I support the spirit of this ruling now, but I would note that we are not applying the same consistency of spirit to Chris as to Joanna. We didn't define biblical epic before and we did define that category. I mean, I think we did in the word biblical. You know, it's a text. I mean, are you bringing in the unrecognized gospels.

1:32:16I don't know why you're fighting me.

1:32:17Sean Fennessey:Is it just because you just, like, I sided with Chris because I love Chris dearly? Like, what is the issue? He's making decisions. You yell at me to vamp every single time. Now I'm vamping. Thank you for vamping. I appreciate that. Make a decision for Christ's sake. Exploring the text. You're the one who gave us the hard out. God damn it. I'll take Carlos in Wild Card.

1:32:39Biographical. Uh-huh. Sure. Great. You don't like this movie? No, I do. This movie's fucking incredible. Olivia Assay-Assay? Yeah. Sure. Edgar Ramirez is Carlos the Jackal. Mm-hmm. One of the most infamous, you know, revolutionary slash terrorists of the 20th century. And one of the most breathtaking hybrids of miniseries and film. I believe this was released in theaters for those who wanted to plant themselves in there for that long amount of time.

1:33:06Sean Fennessey:Yeah. But can be viewed, I think it's on, there is a Criterion version of it, right? There is. You can buy a Criterion edition. It was on Netflix forever. I don't know if it still is. And basically two films. Yes. And an amazing soundtrack that's largely made up of British post-punk from circa that era. And it's just, it's just a fucking phenomenal film about the post, I would say like the sort of rolling out of the 60s and into the 70s. So speaking of Asaias, I started to watch The Wizard of the Kremlin on that same plane flight. Right. Fell asleep. because of the film or because... You see what I mean about the Dano accent?

1:33:48Sean Fennessey:I was enjoying it. Okay. Did you get to Putin? No, I didn't. Yeah, well, then you haven't seen it yet. Putin as portrayed by Jude Law. I'm aware that that was coming. I will watch it. I was excited about it and the way you would be excited about a honey-baked ham. I was like, this is my one honey-baked ham of 2026. I'll be watching one two-hour and 20-minute preposterous biopic of world figures, but it wasn't compelling enough to stay awake. Was it better than Michael? No, I guess you didn't. I guess it wasn't. It will be, I think. It will be. It will be. But you know what Michael had? Michael Jackson's music, which is inherently entertaining.

1:34:29I wonder if Wizard of the Kremlin ever thought about adding some Michael Jackson-type tunes. Probably expensive to license.

1:34:35Sean Fennessey:All right. I think he can afford it. I don't think he paid for the film. I have a wild card pick, right? I think so. Okay, this one's newly eligible because this was also recently released in theaters. It's called Kill Bill, The Whole Bloody Affair. It's the entire Kill Bill saga, which is just about one of my favorite things ever. Quentin Tarantino is originally conceived as one movie that then became two movies because Harvey Weinstein had an idea about splitting it in half to make more money that I think made maybe the production a little bit easier on Tarantino. but seeing the movie together which I saw last year on my birthday before it was like officially re-released the version that I saw was the version that played at the Cannes Film Festival 20 years ago and still had the French subtitles hard-coded into the print but now they made it available earlier this year and it's going to be I think you can stream it on Peacock now and it's going to be available on Home Media That's my preferred way to watch films Yeah, I mean most content really that's where I watch everything Peacock but yeah, I mean just in Epic samurai story, Shades of the Odyssey, about a woman, you know, traveling to retrieve her daughter and go back home.

1:35:48Sean Fennessey:Spoilers, I guess, for Kill Bill, The Whole Bloody Affair. Just an amazing movie. Recently at Video Tech, local video store in our neighborhood, I screened Shogun Assassin, which is a movie that is basically the first two Lone Wolf and Cub films spliced together and then edited together, and then it has a synth score attached to it that was released in 1980. I bring it up because in the fateful scene where Beatrix Kiddo meets her daughter at the end of Kill Bill Volume 2, which is now just part of The Whole Bloody Affair, the movie that she watches with her daughter to go to sleep is Shogun Assassin, which is insane.

1:36:25Sean Fennessey:That's awesome. And my daughter turns five today, no longer four, but I often think of what it would be like to show her Shogun Assassin, which is incredibly violent. But Kill Bill, The Whole Bloody Affair, huge, huge movie. Your daughter is so far shown. Yeah, I was going to say Alice would be like, this rules! Yeah, nothing but interest and openness. Parentheses, complimentary. That's got to be the worst thing. You don't know how far is too far. We've never done viscera. Oh, okay. Yeah. You know, where someone's like stem to stir and sliced with a horse. And this is the whole issue of watching Jaws, which she wants to watch about.

1:37:01Sean Fennessey:Yes, yes. We can do Ghostbusters and Godzilla and monsters destroying things. We've never done bloody stuff. I feel like that's gotta wait for that I think also there's something they need they should learn about like that you know on the battlefield no like the first time I saw like not 80s action violence I was like oh my god this is this is very upsetting yeah I think so I think it would be it's way too early for stuff like that I think at home she's gonna be watching Save Private Ryan undrafted here although it's not too late you've got one more pick Amanda believe it or not I'm not gonna take Saving Private Ryan in Wildcard I'm going to take Barry London which is still on the board.

1:37:40I don't think you should be allowed to pick this. Why? Because when he picked it in the best pictures draft you went Why did I do that? Because I think it was two and a half hours into a podcast and you were just like you're being boring. You were trying to score points.

1:37:53Sean Fennessey:That's what was happening. I don't understand that. I don't yeah with who and with what? It's one of your funniest things like you were just like out of nowhere you just went But life. Well, I don't It just goes to show. I guess so. People change. Yeah, taste evolve. People grow. That's right. Why are you mad about something that happened in a draft and don't even remember? It was extremely rude. It was extremely rude. I thought it was hilarious. You're so so angry. It was untoward. Okay. I don't remember it, which is what you say after every other conversation we've ever had. It wasn't in the spirit of the game, you know?

1:38:29Sean Fennessey:If I have to deal with Mbolo being sent off I was also recently served a clip of when you and me and Zach and Amanda potted together and you were quite rude to me. What did I say? Because I took Once Upon a Time in Hollywood over Moneyball and you were like, get your fucking shit together. We have to kill her. Well, you know what? We all have weak moments. Yeah. I was also, I think, eight months pregnant at that point. Exactly my point. We're testing your metal. You were really mean. You had something big coming up in your life. I needed to make you stronger. I was wondering whether Once Upon a Time in Hollywood would be eligible for this.

1:39:01I don't think so. Okay. It's close. You can make the case as like a Hollywood epic, but, you know.

1:39:06Sean Fennessey:They do travel to Europe. Yeah, that's true. I'm not sure it has the scale. Okay. I mean, the ranch. Yeah. Okay. The overhead shot. Listen, I think there's a case. Do you think Full 8 is an epic? No, I don't. Okay. I think it's beautiful, but I don't think it's an epic. Django, I think, is an epic. Annie, I want to hear you talk about Barry Lundin. I actually just rewatched it as well. If you can't shoot in candlelight, don't bother shooting at all, is what I have to say. Wow, there's like four movies then. No, I mean, you know, one of our greatest filmmakers making one of the most beautiful photographic, painterly, whatever you want to call it.

1:39:39It's just astonishing to look at. And I think very funny.

1:39:43Sean Fennessey:The Abel Ferrara book that I was talking about that I was just listening to on the way here, he was talking about it because in the run-up to making The Driller Killer, he said that Barry Lyndon was made. Everyone went out and saw it. And he said because of the way that Kubrick shot the movie, that essentially invented independent film. Because you did not need these massive lighting rigs. to make a movie. And that the movie kind of taught you, even if you were making a down and dirty exploitation movie like Driller Killer, that you could figure out with a photochemical process and how they figured out how to make that look good on film, that it changed movies forever.

1:40:15Sean Fennessey:I never heard it put quite that way, that it made things actually easier. You don't think of Kubrick as somebody who simplifies things. So I really loved that insight. Obviously, Barry Lyndon is wonderful. Barry Lyndon on the rewatchables? What do you think? Unlikely. Unlikely. Okay. what's going to be the next Kubrick movie that gets in? We've had Eyes Wide Shut. I think Full Metal Jacket. 2001. Well. The Shining. Full Metal Jacket and Clockwork Orange. I could also see a Hollywood Greybeard being like, I want to do Strangelove. I think we could do Strangelove when Digger comes out. Yeah. Yeah.

1:40:49Do you think Bill likes Strangelove?

1:40:51Sean Fennessey:I don't know. Strangelove is a 10-star masterpiece. That's the problem with Digger in any movie. It's like, you're aiming for the moon, you know? You're aiming for the moon, man. The moon exists. Anyway, I'm just pre-predicting. That's the end of the draft, right? I think so, yeah. Yeah. So millions and millions of honorable mentions here. I mean, not millions. Okay, I'll give you some of mine. Okay. Let's start with epic best picture winners and we can say whether or not we think these are eligible. Gone with the Wind. Yes. The Godfather. Yes. Gandhi. Yes. Out of Africa. Yes. The Last Emperor.

1:41:28Yes.

1:41:29Sean Fennessey:Dances with Wolves. Yes. Titanic. I almost did it. Gladiator. Braveheart. Braveheart. The Sound of Music. Wondered. I mean, I think so. I think that there is, you know, I noticed as people were writing about this, that once you are a, once it's a musical, then it gets put into a different classification. I thought about musical epic as a category because there are some movies that have real huge scope. Has it been American in Paris, like three plus? I don't think it's that long. but it is wonderful and underrated there's another Gene Kelly film that is very long Singing? Funny Girl is very long you know there's like some films Singing in the Rain is under two hours as well would you have put Best Years of Our Lives in this?

1:42:10Sean Fennessey:that's interesting emotional epic is like is something to think about I think it could have gone a romantic epic it could have I agree other Best Picture winners what about A Man for All Seasons? I mean I guess it is long and they wear you know from another time. It doesn't have the scope. Right. It's more I mean it's courtroom to me more than it is epic. I agree with you. And I think you know a courtroom can be part of an epic. See you haven't said Oppenheimer yet. I was going to say our last two Best Picture winners I think qualify. Those were the last two on my list. Oppenheimer and One Battle After Another.

1:42:46Sean Fennessey:Both of which I think really fit the scale. And honestly what those two movies have done which I've noticed and we can talk about this a little bit with The Odyssey as well later this week is they have complicated what the trend had been for Best Picture winners which was much more modestly scaled movies for like 15 years. You know, if you think of Parasite, Shape of Water, Green Book, Moonlight, Nomadland, Coda, like all the, so many of the movies that had been winning Best Picture for 10 plus years were these lower scaled intimate dramas and comedies. And now Oppenheimer in One Battle are huge.

1:43:18Sean Fennessey:Okay. Other movies that I made on my list, Biblical Epics, nobody took the Ten Commandments. Nope. I would prefer The Robe. That's the one that I like the best if you're going to go with those Technicolor 50s and 60s films. Pasolini's Gospel According to St. Matthew. There you go. The Passion of the Christ. Yeah. I'm saving that for the next one. Nicholas Ray's King of Kings, I think, is a good one. Greatest Story Ever Told. I don't think that one's very good. Darren Aronofsky's Noah. Sure. Great New Yorker article about it. The New Yorker article that broke Darren Aronofsky. Quo Vadis is another one.

1:43:53Sean Fennessey:Barabbas. Barabbas, yeah. What else? Is that a Bodus Bodus thing? Barabbas? Barabbas? I wasn't around, so. Babar? I don't know. Any other biblical ethics? Guys get crucified in Spartacus, but I don't think that's what they mean. Yeah. Samson and Delilah. There's Bathsheba. There's a lot of those kinds of movies. I looked at a lot of those and we were doing the program in the Criterion thing. We were like, well, should we do it as these like Odyssey-inspired swords and sandals movies, like Iphigenia, like stuff like that? Or should we do this kind of story? and we ended up going in that direction, obviously.

1:44:28Sean Fennessey:Romantic or war epic? Saving Private Ryan. All Quiet on the Western Front. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon? Yep. Sure. Platoon? Yeah. Once Upon a Time in China? Dr. Zhivago? Yes. The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. Oh, interesting. I didn't think of that. I did think of that one. That's a good one. Not a movie I like, but romantic and long. My least favorite of the Finchers. Yeah. You guys got to open your hearts. Dunkirk? Yeah. Well, for war, yeah. I think so. Definitely. Longest Day, Bridge Too Far. Yeah. Out of Africa. Not a movie I like either. Would you consider Great Escape an epic or just like a really long, good World War II?

1:45:07More of an adventure movie, I feel like.

1:45:10Sean Fennessey:Any other westerns? How the West Was Won, Once Upon a Time in the West. I think I'd probably... I have Once Upon a Time in the West in another category. Yeah. Yeah, there's more. What are the other westerns that I'm not thinking of right now? We already mentioned Dances with Wolves. yeah um god there's gotta be a couple of three hour westerns I'm not thinking Wyatt Earp for sure Lawrence Kasdan's Wyatt Earp um Geronimo the Walter Hill film sure um biopic epic is Lincoln up there yes I wondered whether you guys were gonna do this I was thinking about it I had that if Malcolm X had been taken uh The Aviator sure Ollie recently on the rewatchable Shay part one and two yeah definitely okay is Goodfellas a biopic epic I can't really complain because you let me get Kingdom of Heaven in Bible but I personally just think of it as a crime film I think that there are other Scorsese movies that would be eligible in other categories but I didn't have this one down I mean it spans a great deal of time it does it's a huge cast it is a real person story of a real person's life.

1:46:25Sean Fennessey:You could make the strong case. I think. I didn't choose it, but I think you could make the strong case. No one did, but you had After Hours in your collection. I did. I did. Yeah, that's very Odyssey coded. I mean, but if you're going to do Goodfellas in biopic, then Wolf of Wall Street would also be in biopic. I was going to also, speaking of Leo, ask about Catch Me If You Can. Is that an epic? They go a lot of places. Certainly the aviator is, right? But not that many people. The aviator for sure. I mean, you know, there are people at the airport or whatever, but. What about The Revenant? I think so.

1:46:55Yeah, I think so. I think so. I don't know what category I would put it in, but... Yeah. I think it's a war epic. Really? Yeah, I guess so. Right? There's so much battle in that film. Man versus nature. Man versus bear.

1:47:04Sean Fennessey:Yeah. The Revenant? No. No, me neither. Schindler's List? Yeah. The Right Stuff? Marginal, but I think yes. The double VHS. I mean, this is the problem. I have this association with the word and like the giant brick VHS to tape release. But that would put like Prince of the City in there and it's like, was Prince of the City an epic? Kind of epic. I think so. The right stuff. Irishman? Yeah, I had it on it. I was going to do it in Wildcard or three hours if I didn't get JFK. Bernardo Bertolucci's 1900, which I don't care for. I don't either. It's like five hours long. RRR? Yeah. Definitely a recent epic.

1:47:47Sean Fennessey:We don't get them as much these days. What about Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet?

1:47:53Sean Fennessey:The scale of that movie is extraordinary. Well, sure. I mean, I guess that's true. Henry V over Hamlet? Is Henry V an epic? Well, then we kind of get into, because you're adapting a play, and if you're doing like the unabridged version or close to unabridged, plays are just really long, so are musicals. So, you know, is Wicked an epic? I don't know. Maybe if they made it one movie. Sure. You chose Gamel with the Wizard of Oz. That's true. Couple of other ones to round us out here. Tarkovsky's Andre Rublev, for sure. Chris, you actually drafted Carlos, you crazy son of a bitch. Speaking of Leone.

1:48:30Sean Fennessey:Should I not have? No, you did. Should I not have taken it? I had it here. Once Upon a Time in America, as well as Once Upon a Time in the West, I think also qualify. Anything else you want to list? Well, if we're doing Scorsese's Killers of the Flower Moon. I skipped over it, you're right. I had that here too. And Leos. Dune yes or no I think Dune 2 put them together you know and then it would be one Dune does more world hopping doesn't it I guess you're right don't we see three different planets on Dune but then Dune 2 Dune could Dune 2 be Dune 2 is more biblical I was like can I do a can I do Dune as biblical but not literal Princess Erlon or Chani like decide right now what I want to know is why he has to decide at all.

1:49:17He's God Emperor.

1:49:19Sean Fennessey:You want him to have like an invite situation. It's a good idea. Doing two chicks. At the same time. Okay.

1:49:33Sean Fennessey:It's so good. It's great. Let's recap our draft so Chris can go. CR, you chose first. Why don't you tell us what you chose? In Odyssey-inspired films, I took the searchers. What's wrong with that? You pivoted so elegantly from doing two chicks. You'll throw on your like, I'm doing a voiceover voice. And it's very funny. In Epic Best Picture winners, I took Bridge on the River Kwai. Biblical Epic, you guys were nice enough to allow me to have Kingdom of Heaven, the Director's Cut, which played in one theater.

1:50:07In Movies Over Three Hours, I took Lawrence of Arabia. And in Wild Card, I took Carlos. You forgot Romantic Epic and Biopic Epic. In Romantic Epic, I took Last of the Mohicans and in Biopic Epic, I took Malcolm X.

1:50:20Sean Fennessey:Sounds like the phone era is off to a rocky start. I'm not trying to be like the guy on his phone. What I want is to be the guy who doesn't need any devices. That's the problem. Even with the phone, you were flawed. This is why there's nothing wrong with a laptop. But you guys don't make room for me. Get a bigger table. No. Or get a smaller microphone. I'm not doing the set design here and I take no responsibility for it. Anything that happened here was designed by the wonderful people at Spotify or this person. Yeah.

1:50:51Sean Fennessey:Okay, for my picks. I've heard your request and the answer is no. Okay. Well, then you guys are going to have to deal with me forgetting multiple categories. In Odyssey-inspired epics, I took Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? In epic Best Picture winners, I took The Lord of the Rings, The Return of the King. In biblical epic, I took The Last Temptation of Christ. In romantic or war epic, I took The Deer Hunter. In biopic epic, I took Amadeus. In movies that have to see three hours, I took Seven Samaritans. and in wildcard I took Kill Bill the whole bloody affair. Amanda? You could also just get a smaller laptop.

1:51:19You know? You just have like a Cadillac of a laptop for no reason at all.

1:51:23Sean Fennessey:You should get a really normal sized laptop. You should get a Skytel pager. I want to get the Zero Dark 30 like Dell Toughbook. Just for all your roughhousing? Yeah, just in case. In case you get on a Bell helicopter to fly somewhere? Now I'm just going to get a much bigger computer. I think that's a good bit. I'm going to set up a monitor. Yeah, great. Okay. Okay. In Odyssey-inspired epics, I took The Wizard of Oz. In Epic Best Picture Winners, The Godfather Part 2. In Biblical Epic, Ben-Hur. In Romantic or War Epic, The English Patient. In Biopic Epic, Reds. In Movies That Exceed Three Hours, JFK.

1:52:00And in Wild Card, Barry Lyndon. She did the voice. I do, yeah.

1:52:04Sean Fennessey:Yeah. We all have a voice like that. This was fine. This was good. Okay. I think this was a lot of fun and we picked some great movies, but this speaks to this genre that we've sort of invented being interwoven into the fabric of the greatest films of cinema history. Now, in the future, do you want these categorical drafts to be more narrow? Would that be better to focus in more clearly on? I mean, I think a swords and sandals draft would have been boring, but probably more. we just drafted like the best movies ever made so I don't I don't really have a huge problem many are saying Carlos is one of the greatest movies ever made honestly you see me on Hillhurst talk to me about it

1:52:52buy me a$22 cocktail and I'll tell you all about Carlos my name is Jonathan

1:52:56Sean Fennessey:thank you for your work with Carlos

1:53:01Sean Fennessey:well sorry for trying to spread the word I want to say thanks to Jack Sanders for his work on this episode our producer thanks to Lucas Cavanaugh on Thursday night you will be able to hear Amanda and I speak about The Odyssey. It's a film we've now seen twice. Yeah. Just us. No one else. Really what the people want. No, they don't. You guys are the best. You're going to come back, right? I'll come around Monday when we can go full spoilers. Alright. By then I'll have taken lots of action. And audience theories. We never discussed the Doomsday concept art with Amanda. go, but I'm just saying we didn't.

1:53:38We should keep bringing up topics. Concept art. Is that real? That can't be real. Looking at images. Oh, dear. Isn't Gambit in that?

1:53:48Sean Fennessey:I think he's going to be in the film. Did you see Deadpool and Wolverine? Yeah. You did. You like it? No. Chris Evans wearing like a mock neck shirt here? What's going on? Thanks for joining us on The Big Picture. We were brought to you by State Farm. Right? Don't you just say that. Don't say things like that. okay we'll see you next time bye