The Nicole Kidman Hall of Fame, and ‘Babygirl’

27:15I think one of the reasons why I failed to like jump out of my seat and applaud at the end of the movie, even though I had a really good time. Yeah. Was there were a couple, a couple sequences like that where I was like, what, what just happened? Right. What, like, it's not totally clear. And I wasn't sure if I was meant to say you go girl or not, or meant to be like, oh, wow, we all just live in the corporate hell. And our inability to escape these gender based power structures is dooming us all. I honestly couldn't tell. Yeah. And again, the corporate stuff I felt was in some ways like very like well observed.

27:47I mean, it is hell and is also, you know, just kind of like a metaphorical stand in for women are expected to present as like, you know, perfect and in control. And we're supposed to, you know, like my generation has been like, you can do anything and you must do anything and you can have it all and you will have it all. And it will all look, you know, perfect on the outside. And I haven't slept in three months. I actually haven't slept in a year. That's, you know, you can't sleep while you're pregnant and then they definitely don't let you sleep afterwards. It's going to be okay. I got you. I got you.

28:21Thank you so much. Thank you. So it seemed to me and that you're, and so implied in all of that is like you're supposed to assume all this power. You know, like women, we are all supposed to go girl at all times. And express it. Yeah. Yeah. And so part of her desire was in being like, that's so exhausting that like, to actually not have to do all of that is, you know, is part of what turns her on. It's release, yeah. Yeah, it's release. And so that, her coming back to her like, no, like I can do this when I need to, is like, I guess some sort of, it's not redemptive, but it's, I guess she's like turned the mask back on, you know?

29:07Yeah, and I wonder if that is repression or not. I guess it ultimately doesn't matter. The movie that I've seen this movie compared to quite often is Secretary. Have you seen Secretary? I have. Yeah. I mean, well, in like the motel scene, there is like a beautiful wide shot that you immediately do think of Secretary. Yes. Maggie Gyllenhaal and James Spader, 2002. Basically like a black comedy as well about power dynamics in the workplace and sex. Speaking of Secretary, this is like a total random aside, but Jesse Eisenberg was on, as part of his press tour, he was on Table Manners, the podcast with Jesse Ware.

29:40which I recently learned no one under 30 who knows who Jesse Ware is and like educate yourselves. Open the schools. But they he was telling a story about taking his now wife on a date to see secretary. And he like didn't really know that secretary was going to be about what it is. Sure. Yeah. And I believe his wife was so uncomfortable that she just put her coat over her head throughout the thing. And he says and then I was like, wow, she's so weird. I want to marry her, which I thought was a really romantic. heartwarming tale I hope an aspiring young writer director actor is currently seeing baby girl with their future wife and making a happy life for themselves yeah I guess one other thing I want to mention is the music in this movie is amazing and kind of like carries certain parts of the movie you know they're the obviously father figure George Michael's song the kind of Harris Dickinson shirtless writhing to...

30:41He's wearing the tank top and the chain. And I do think like Harris Dickinson's chain is like the new Paul Meskel normal people chain. Okay. All right. Like I guess Baby Girl isn't wide enough for those meme accounts to have started yet. Is it just a gold chain? What is it? Does it have a pendant on it? No. No, it's not Andrew Barfield. No, it's not Andrew Barfield. Oh, that was some good stuff. No, it's just very powerful. It hangs well. In Excess Never Tear Us Apart, I think is the song that hits when their affair starts really hitting hard. Yeah. Robin's Dancing on My Own, which has been used quite often in the last 10 years.

31:21But it feels appropriate for this song. It is a generational touchpoint for women my age now. The original Robin, not whatever the Phillies are playing after they win games. Like, what are we going to... It's not your problem. The Phillies play Dancing on My Own. Yes, but a cover? Bobby, help me out here. I know that you're a Mets fan. No, this was a big thing a couple years ago. It started with the Red Sox, actually, and then Kyle Schwarber came to the Phillies and brought it with him. They play the, I forget his name, Callum something. I don't know his name. Cover of Dancing on My Own and not the original.

31:49Is it too much to ask? And I think that is why the Phillies lost the World Series. Is it too much to ask that, one, we learn to hit in October, and two, we play the original Robin version of Dancing on My Own? It is too much to ask. Yes. It's concerning me a little bit that you're saying we with the Phillies, and it just hurts myself a smidge. I had to renounce the Raves. I had to, and that's fine. That's okay. Just for the record, a Braves-Phillies-Dodgers fan over here. So your takes are invalid. No, no, no, no. Listen, let me say once again, I renounce the Atlanta Braves. We had a good run in the 90s, but I'm not welcome in my own home if I'm a Braves fan.

32:24And the way that you guys look at me, the way that Chris looks at me, the way that Zach looks at me, any time that the—listen, I have renounced them. Must be nice. They moved to Cobb County, which I do not support. and I was like, I'm out. So yes, for the happiness of my son and husband and my other son, once he learns what a ball is. We'll be bringing him into Mets Hive. I'll have you know. No, that would be tough. We will. Okay. We will. Bob, will we do it? Would Zach like set it on fire if I just like started sending Mets onesies to your house? Like what would he do? So one time before, well before I was pregnant with Knox, just like the concept of children, I made a joke that I was like, I'm going to raise our children to be Cowboys fans just to mess with you.

33:09And Zach, like, both got so angry and almost started crying in a way that it was like, it was a combination I hadn't seen before and haven't seen since. Uh, it was so, and I've learned, you know, like that kind of rare emotional response taught me like this is we're not joking around. So both my sons, well, Knox knows how to say go birds. I doesn't know how to talk. Um, but I know we, we, that, That's how I show my love. Okay? This is what I do. I'm pretty mean, but I can be a Phillies fan. I wish you guys well in your household. I'm not a Sixers fan. I just, can we, please, we need baseball to start again.

33:44This is just excruciating. Two more months. Very quickly, awards chances for baby girl. Nicole Kidman is probably the only person in the running at this point. So maybe she'll get it instead of Angelina Jolie. Maybe she'll get the fifth spot. Seems possible. One thing we forgot to say during our Golden Globes conversation is Marianne Jean-Baptiste was also snubbed by the Golden Globes. Oh, of course. That's right. And that does seem... And she's also... I feel like that's going to happen. Yes. I do think that that's going to happen. And so, honestly... Okay, so... If Angelina Jolie and Nicole Kidman go out and Fernanda Torres and Marianne Jean-Baptiste go in, I wouldn't be stunned.

34:27I wouldn't be stunned either. I do, with respect to the people of the Brazil and their enthusiasm for their cultural product, the Fernanda Torres Golden Globes history brought Brazil, lots of Brazilian voters things. A lot of Brazilian voters in the new academy that goes for the votes. So that's just something to keep in your head. Yes. Fernanda Torres feels actually less likely to me than Marianne Jean-Baptiste. I could be wrong about that. I would agree with that. But that's my gut on it. But so, Mikey Madison, for sure. Demi Moore for sure who else I'm forgetting let's just say Marianne Jean-Baptiste Marianne Jean-Baptiste I think that's correct I gotta see that movie oh Cynthia Erivo Cynthia Erivo yeah I think that's that's pretty guaranteed Carla Sofia Gascon yeah I think that's also happening I agree okay so it would be interesting if Nicole Kidman and Angelina Jolie got blanked it would and would also I think signal what's increasingly been happening which is like star power is not really what drives a lot of this stuff you know and star power is certainly not what drives the wins in these categories that's true this movie is still it's doing solid business it's made like almost 20 million dollars already yeah which for a movie this size Nicole Kidman has been in some successful movies but I would not say is a classic box office draw I would say that this has like anecdotally among the women in my life.

35:56It's been like, oh, have you seen Baby Girl yet? When can I see Baby Girl? When is Baby Girl coming out? Like, both from people who do follow these things and people who, you know, text me when the Golden Globes started being like, how is it the Golden Globes again? So. Part of a coordinated effort, I think, on the part of A24 to, one, they hit a lot of doubles this year. They had a home run with Civil War, but, you know, you had We Live in Time, we had Heretic, now this movie, then The Brutalist. a lot of movies are going to do like pretty good business right and that middle that we're always clamoring for so they're finding their audiences yeah and also finding female audiences you know We Live In Time was huge with female moviegoers and this movie obviously would be too unfortunately I'm never going to be able to see that one but you liked it I did yeah I did I mean it's Andrew Garfield and Florence Pugh with a three year old yeah I can't do it it's pretty relevant to my interests yeah so but I Nicole Kimmon also always finds a way she just always you're betting on her well I'm not betting her I'm just saying okay I think I did bet on her for the Oscar bet that that exercise because we did it in like September 8th is so fucked like there's so we've made so many bad picks in there but it'll be fun to go back and look at it in March let's talk more about Nicole okay she's really good at acting she's fantastic and it's weird that we haven't it's weird we haven't really focused our energy on her on the show too much because she is one of the few big, big, big stars who has not stopped working.

37:27And in some cases has been doing excellent work. It's just that a lot of it has moved to television. And she hasn't stopped making movies. In fact, she makes more movies than any big star in the last quarter century. She has made 47 movies since 2000. In addition to starring in at least four TV series and doing guest spots on other shows, the thing about her is she fucking works, man. She is present all of the time. In some cases, she works with really audacious and interesting filmmakers. She's one of the only female stars that works hard to work with female directors. Yes, she made a point of it.

38:02She is a really like exemplary, contemporary, boom, Gen X movie star. She puts her money where her mouth is in a lot of ways. Not all of her stuff works, though. She makes a lot of stinkers because she takes a lot of chances. And then she tends to dot it with, I think, pretty smart supporting work in popcorn movies. Right. You know, your golden compasses, your Aquamans, your things that are sort of like, I'm always on a red carpet of some note because I am playing some superhero's mom. Right, and she'll do the work also. She shows up for the photo shoot. She shows up for the interview. Yes. She's good at giving just the right amount of quotes.

38:40A recent interview about how Keith Urban bought her this fancy car and she hated it and she just drives her Subaru around instead. Really good. Stayed with me. Just like me. You know? Yeah. What is she good at as an actor? Reserve. Holding a little back. And she can still go for it, and she can still be big, and she can still do silly performances, comedic performances. It's not quite chilliness, and it is not quite... She's not subdued, but you lean in with her, because it's not... There's something that she's not giving to you, Even when she's like putting it out all out on the screen. Until she does.

39:24And that's kind of the power of the thing. At some point she like completely lets go. But she's not, she works all the time and she does all sorts of projects. But she's not like a theater kid if that makes any sense. And she's not even, charisma is not what you would say about her. Even though there is like an energy that's pulling you in. but it's not, she's, it's, what's it called? Is it entropy when it all like comes into you? Entropy. Yeah, I think that's right. I think she is extremely good at having like a domineering quiet because she's so tall and so striking that if she's in the center of the frame, she can't hide.

40:11But she's not an actor who plays to the back of the crowd. She doesn't like rattle. rattle. She doesn't speechify when she's performing. It doesn't mean she's quiet, but like you said, she knows how to pick her spots. I think she also had this interesting kind of, I don't know, trajectory, I guess you would call it, across her career, where the first seven or eight things she does in Australia are mostly comic. And so she develops kind of rom-com-y chops, but she's almost like too beautiful in her 20s to be cast as Meg Ryan. So she starts taking on the girlfriend parts in movies like Far and Away and Days of Thunder and her relationship with Tom Cruise then kind of power some of that through.

40:57But then she uses that period from her like late 20s and early 30s to capitalize and to start making really complicated, interesting, dramatic roles. And then at a certain point kind of circles back and it's like, actually, just kidding. I'm in Bewitched and the Stepford Wives. I'm a comic actress. And then circles back and is like, I'm actually really into soapy stuff, like Big Little Lies. She's kind of always moving around. She doesn't get stuck in one genre. She's just as comfortable in Dogville as she is in Nine Perfect Strangers. You know what I mean? She has like, she's not chameleonic as a performer, but she's chameleonic in terms of the setting that she fits into, which is a real gift.

41:39I mean, most performers don't bend themselves. They actually do the opposite. that they sort of think to themselves like, what is my core strength? I mean, her ex-husband is sort of like, in the last 15 years has been like, I'm good at running and being serious and executing missions. Right. And has stuck pretty tightly to that. And she doesn't do that, which I think is really admirable and really cool. She really does work all the time. She just seems to say yes to stuff in a way that is really cool. I mean, I guess like she has the ability and there are a lot of women actors who grow up in front of Hollywood and then they make it past 40 and they're just kind of like, well, I don't know how long I'll get to keep working, so I'll just keep saying yes.

42:22But in her case, it feels, I guess she realized she needed to create more opportunities for herself, but she really, she's just taken all of them all at once. It's very cool. I don't know, some of it, I'm trying to figure out because there's a period basically between 2008 and 2019 where she's made a bunch of movies I haven't seen. Okay. And a bunch of movies that had like very limited distribution or that in the parlance of blank check do not exist. Right. And like there's a thriller with Nicolas Cage called Trespass that I just haven't seen. And I don't know why I missed it, but I missed it.

42:57And it doesn't seem like it has any huge reputation. There's one even later after that that I'll get to that I want to talk to you about. I don't know if you've seen it. Maybe you have. But it's one of those things where I'm like, this feels like it's imagined. Secret in their eyes? No. Oh. Even more, imagine, than that. Bigger and smaller than that. So I think that one of the consequences of working all the time is she's not a rare object. You know, it's not like everybody gather around the new Nicole Kidman movie is coming out. Yeah. Because she puts out five in a year sometimes. So she doesn't hold that same level of, oh my gosh, Brad Pitt is at the party.

43:30Or, oh my goodness, it's Meryl Streep. You know what I mean? I think she's starting to. But do you know why? because of the AMC thing, which we need to talk about. We do. So that is 2021? I think so, yeah. The advertising campaign for AMC theaters. Right, which quickly becomes like an internet sensation as well and like a movie-going sensation. People go to say it along with her. It started out as mockery because of the deep sincerity with which that commercial is being communicated at the beginning of movies. Sure. It felt like within minutes, everyone was like, actually, no, this rocks. This makes me feel like I'm in the place where I like to be, which is going to see movies.

44:17And then you get to be a part of it. People are still to this day in theaters in Los Angeles clapping and happy and speaking along to that. When I saw it for the first time in 2024, when they introduced a abbreviated version, an abridged version with new films, Creed was cut out. And I was, first of all, I was like, where's Creed? You did say that. I was with you. Yeah. And then I was like, they edited it. They made it shorter, you know? And at this point, I'm like, if I'm going to go, I'm going to sit through it. It's sort of like saying, you know, like our fathers before we like do whatever.

44:49There's obviously a long history of this at the movies, the let's all go to the lobby, you know, like the sort of like pre-movie experience that is non-trailer is baked in. And for whatever reason, AMC, which has been like a failing business for the last 10 years, still kind of landed on this wonderful, weird, awkwardly sincere suit. And like a little camp. So I think she becomes like a little bit of a pop cultural figure. Is she wearing like a silver sequined suit? Yes. Yeah. And when we were going to recreate that for the ringer, I was going to try to find a suit like that. Did you find it? No, I didn't get that far.

45:23But it's still available. If we want to do it, I could call it. You're in your suit era. You know, now's the time. That's true. But that changes everyone's understanding to her as a person because she's doing that as Nicole Kidman. Yes. And as an ambassador of movies. Yeah. Which is ironic given how much television she does. Yeah. But I don't watch that being like, oh, great. Yeah. Nicole Kidman is defending cinema. I'm like, Nicole Kidman is trying to like, she's getting what I hope was a giant HX that bought her 45 Subarus to prop up like, like Adam Aaron's GameStop, you know, experiment. So that's fine.

46:08Go see movies in theaters, everyone. And be responsible with your investments. Absolutely. You know, we all agree with that. To me, it's more about, oh, it's like Nicole Kidman. She is, it's her meme era for lack of a better word. But you need that in this day and age. You do. You do. And I'm sure she had no idea that that would be the outcome of this. But now she has leaned into it. No, there's a great interview where someone asks her about it in her real time. She's like, wait, what? And her publicist is like, oh, yeah, it's a thing. And she's informed that people are reciting this. I don't know.

46:45But again, she seems game, you know? She does. Even the things that she doesn't quite expect. But again, that has burnished Nicole Kidman in a different way. So I do now think when people watch, whether it's like Junkie Netflix show or Baby Girl, you are watching, you know, you're like, oh, it's Nicole Kidman who has been in my life now for five years. I was just watching her four favorites on Letterboxd. Oh, what are they? Oh, they were good. Clueless is the first one. Clueless was the first one. That's my girl. They were all good picks. You know, I love Letterboxd, but these people are getting tipped off beforehand that they're going to get asked by Letterboxd, so they're prepping.

47:26You know, they're not coming up with them off the top of their head. Why wouldn't you prep? I think it would be... Because if you're a true ambassador of cinema, you don't have to prep.

47:38I'm disgusted by you. No, listen, you're not doing your job as a person who walks red carpets if you don't know that question's coming and you're not ready. And you should absolutely fire your publicist. I agree. I agree. Yeah. She did a great job. I can't remember what her four were, but they were good. I got them. I got them right here. What are they, Bob? Clueless, the piano teacher, piano, and a woman under the influence. Yeah. Sick. Great picks. Amazing. She also did the whole, like, I only get four? Yeah, so hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was also delivered via publicist 12 minutes before they encounter the Letterboxd microphone.

48:11But when she saw them, she went, Letterboxd! We love Letterboxd! You know, and her eyes are bursting out of her head. She knows how to play the game. She's a really good celebrity. Awards history. She's been nominated for one, two, three, four, five. Five Oscars. She's won once. Her nominations are for Moulin Rouge, The Hours, Rabbit Hole, Being the Ricardos, and Lion. Her win is for The Hours. I would argue that these are not even close to her best performances. That was a watch bit from like 10 years ago. Like yelling Lion, the movie. Like DJ Khaled. being like, there's my lion! Lion! Yeah, anyway.

48:52She's won six Golden Globes. Sure. Golden Globes don't really mean anything. Tell that to Jennifer Lopez. Did you? That's the thing, is when you see Jennifer Lopez longing, what she really longs for is Nicole Kidman's stature. Sure. How do I be an elevated celebrity that is beloved, but is also celebrated as an artist? But also, I need to make my own... 40-minute music video with Jane Fonda and Post Malone reading the signs of the Zodiac. You Post Malone had? He's very, very charming in the documentary. Like, you should actually, everyone should watch that documentary. Okay. It's honestly riveting, riveting stuff.

49:35But he comes in to film his bit in her music video and he is just charming her, like, instantly flirting with her. Really good. It really converted me. He's really on quite a five-year run. I know one Post Malone song, I think. White Iverson. Yeah, that's it. But sure, good for him. Yeah, he's doing well. It was fascinating to watch him stand beside Beyonce at the Christmas Day football game. Oh, I haven't watched that yet. It was good. That's what everyone said. I mean, I saw clips on the internet, but my child had his second ear infection. Yeah, not ideal. But, you know, as with all those Beyonce productions, like, this is good.

50:14Yeah. She knows what she's doing. Okay, did you look at the box office, the top 10 for her? For like what are her highest grossing movies? Not until right this second, but LOL. We can't do the game of me asking you what they would have been. But the Nicole Kidman top 10 highest grossing movies worldwide is a hilarious list. I'll read the list to you right now. Number 10, Cold Mountain. Sure, makes sense. Number 9, Moulin Rouge. Absolutely. Totally makes sense. Number 8, The Others. Secretly a very big movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So far, so good. Number 7, Just Go With It. Sure, yeah. Adam Sandler movie that she makes a memorable appearance in.

50:45number six Australia a movie that was not very big here but was very big overseas number five Paddington that's right a movie you love she plays the villain number four Batman Forever okay makes sense but that movie's not very good but okay number three The Golden Compass those movies were big and this was at a time when they were trying to make it happen it wasn't very good but have you read those books? I haven't they're good I probably will with my daughter would be my guess number two Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom that's the one that came out like a year and a half ago Yes, I enjoyed it. No, it was, I think, 14 months ago I enjoyed it.

51:18Oh, okay. 14 months is like almost a year and a half. Sure. Okay. Plus four months. Math corner. Yeah. I think it was legit December 2023. It was the conclusion of the DC EU. Right, right, right, right, right, right, right. Listen, like, I'm just looking ahead. New year, you know? Yeah, new year. And then number one was Aquaman. Yeah. So who is she in the Aquaman universe? She's Aquaman's mom. Oh, sick. She is an Atlantean who comes to the shore and fucks a fisherman. Okay, thank you. That is what I was going to ask. But then does she live on the shore? Does she live on the land? She lives in Atlantis, but she pops in earthwise.

51:57So is Atlantis, it's not underwater yet, so it's just a... What do you mean? I don't really know the... He's an Aquaman. He goes in the water. Yeah, so is Atlantis in the water? Yeah. So she lives underwater? Yes. But she's a human? No. She's a mer person. Oh, she goes to the shore. I don't have the terminology here. This is kind of a Midnight Boys question. She's the water-based gene. And then the dad. Who's the dad? I'm sure this is a spoiler. Timur Morrison, the actor who played Boba Fett. That doesn't mean anything to me. But what is his life? He's a human. He's out there fishing? He's a human.

52:38He's literally just a guy. So she fucks a fisherman. Okay. Sorry. Okay. And they make a magical creature that becomes Jason Momoa. Is she related to Triton? I believe you're thinking of the Little Mermaid. Well, or Poseidon? It's not really that mythology. Okay, but it is a little bit. Because DC is borrowing from all of that stuff all of the time. It's kind of soft baked into it. Is she like the sister? The sister of who? Of Poseidon. No. I can't recall who the... Oh, Javier Bardem is the king of Atlantis, I think. Like, who is... Let's take a look at Aquaman. This is really worth our time as we have to go through this person's entire filmography.

53:18Or maybe... Was Dolph Lundgren the king? This is also confusing. Javier Bardem was King Triton in The Little Mermaid. Yes. Not in this movie. Yeah, those behind the scenes of him filming that are in the water tank or quite something. Well, Patrick Wilson played Orm. Okay. He was known as the Ocean Master. That was my favorite performance in that movie. Sort of like the Air Boss. Yes, yes. I don't know. Maybe there was not. Nicole Kidman was Atlanta, the queen of Atlantis, mother of Arthur and Orm. I don't know. Maybe she doesn't have a husband of any kind. Yeah. Is she a single mom? I mean, maybe.

53:56Wow. You know, but it's sort of like, so is she the, if she's the descent, like the, if. This is why you should have joined me for this episode. You bailed on me on this one. I remember very vividly, I think the first Aquaman movie episode I did with David Shoemaker. I think I maybe wasn't invited. Because sometimes you don't think I'm going to be a good Hank. But I ask the important questions about underwater monarchies. Let's pivot to Nicole Kidman's career. She's made so many movies. I'm going to be really honest. So I did my best to prep for this. But when I finally sat down, I didn't remember 45 movies.

54:32And I was like, oh, okay. We're not going to get through all of them. I mean, for starters, the first two, four, six movies she makes are in Australia. and I haven't seen them. Okay. They're mostly romantic comedies. She's usually playing supporting parts. Her character is often on the VHS box. But throughout the 80s, before her big breakthrough, these are relatively small films. So they're all going to be read. The titles of those movies are Bush Christmas, BMX Bandits, which many people joke about now that she was starred in a movie called BMX Bandits, Willis and Burke, Wind Rider, The Bit Part, and Emerald City.

55:05Maybe some Australians are listening. I know we have an Australian contingent of listeners. We do. Oh, absolutely. Can we go to Australia? I don't know. Can we go? You can go to Australia if you want to. Eternal summer, you know? So we're going to spend, it's summer there right now. Sure, you can go and you can report back. Next January, let's do all of January and February. Okay. You want to do the awards race? Oh, right. That's tough. Like both time-wise and, you know, school is obviously. If Australia would like to invite the big picture to its wonderful continent, we would love to come and celebrate films.

55:38We'll find a reasonable time to do so. hopefully not in the dead of winter. And maybe we'll get a chance to see BMX Pandits. Yeah, not in the dead of winter there. Yes. In the dead of winter here. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Okay. 1989, Dead Calm. This is her big breakthrough performance in a very small thriller directed by Philip Noyce, co-starring Sam Neill and Billy Zane. Billy Zane! Billy Zane. A menace on the water once again. Yes, exactly. Sort of preparing for his role in Titanic. All three of them are electrifying in this movie. This movie is great. Yeah. If you have not seen Dead Calm, I would highly recommend it.

56:15In the spirit of the Hall of Fame and all my shtick about the breakthrough, this is one where I feel like at a minimum it needs to be yellow and it feels like, it feels pretty green to me. To your shtick about, like, the breakthrough performance is really, her international, her Hollywood breakthrough is Days of Thunder. Which comes one year later. And that is, obviously she plays like the love interest who is a doctor in Daytona. Yes. But she's also Australian and is just there to be like, you're a great Tom Cruise. Yes. So it's... Cole Trickle. Yeah, despite... Obviously, that's very... You know where Cole Trickle's from?

56:52Where? Eagle Rock, California. She is? No, he is. His character is from Eagle Rock. Oh, Cole is. Oh, okay, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, all the greats started in Eagle Rock. Yeah, absolutely. Ben, Matt, Barry, Obama. Yeah. Me. You didn't start in Eagle Rock. I didn't start there. nor did any of those people but my sons yeah sure you know but like we all it was formative Days of Thunder it's important to her tabloid and her celebrity thing but I would I agree that Dead Calm is a more exciting it's one of her Days of Thunder is one of her biggest movies and obviously it kicks off her relationship with Tom but for her I don't think it's a Hall of Fame movie I agree should we yellow it just for the purposes of this discussion yeah yeah sure sure sure so Dead Calm and Days of Thunder will be yellowed 1991's Flirting which is a film in which she plays a high school girl in Australian production John Dugan her Tendiwe Newton and her best friend Naomi Watts this is a pretty good movie a very enjoyable kind of dramedy that in most people's careers you would be like this is yellow we have so many movies to go through that it's hard but I do want to just cite I think Flirting is going to be red but it is a pretty good movie okay 1992, far and away.

58:08Ron Howard. You skipped Billy Bathgate. Oh, Billy Bathgate. Robert Benton's gangster drama starring Dustin Hoffman. I believe she was nominated for a Golden Globe for her performance in this movie. Roger Ebert famously located her sense of humor in his review of this movie. It is way too long and overstuffed and not very good. So I would say it's red. What a cast though. Insane. Dustin Hoffman, Nicole Kidman, Lauren Dean, Bruce Willis, Stephen Hill, Stanley Tucci, Steve Buscemi just Maura Kelly I see down here okay it's not going in big fussy Hollywood production yeah it didn't totally land yeah yeah yeah some people like it okay far and away far and away our Irish representative speak on it this movie's not that good so it's tough it's not that good I rewatched it last night I hadn't seen it in a long time and like I rewatched part of it what are we doing yeah this is a tough one so Tom Cruise Tom Cruise is a bare knuckle boxer who Who is traversing the land trying to make a better life for he and his partner.

59:07Yeah. I would not say that his Irish accent really lands. No, I think they're actually weirdly both miscast in this movie. Yeah. She's not bad. Yeah, it's fine. At the end, he rides the horse. Shades of future Tom Cruise. He's just going so fast for a very long time. That's cool. I haven't seen this in a really long time, but I remember when I first saw it, I did not like it. And I'm predisposed to liking a movie like this for a variety of reasons. Well, but it's sort of like fake epic. I mean, at the end, they just do this giant, it's called a land race. And it is like Cruz for five minutes just riding as fast as he possibly can with tons of other people.

59:48And you're like, wow, we used to spend money and make movies. That's true. Something you do see in a lot of her movies here is extraordinary production value. 1993's Malice with a screenplay by Aaron Sorkin. Yeah. This is the Alec Baldwin, I am God speech. Sure. This is George C. Scott and Nicole Kidman in an erotic thriller. Yes. A nasty little erotic thriller. Absolutely nuts. Extremely fun movie. Is it a good movie? I don't know if it's a good movie, but it's, I mean. You think it's important for her? Well, I mean, spoiler alert. If you haven't seen Malice, fast forward. Okay. I don't even remember you're going to reveal the ending.

1:00:32No, no, no. It hinges on her. Okay. You know, and even that like gives a lot of it away and that there's like a lot going. There's more going on there than just being the doctor in the, you know, NASCAR movie. Yeah. And that is something, and it subverts your expectations of what she's doing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, sort of absurdly, but. No, it's a very entertaining little movie. It's yellow. I agree. It's definitely yellow. It did well at the box office. It puts her in like a different kind of class as an actress. Okay, I'll go yellow. 1993 is My Life, which we recently discussed on our Michael Keaton Mount Rushmore episode.

1:01:13Yeah, I watched this while pregnant. Why? Why did you do that today? This was Michael Keaton is dying, so he's capturing the final days of his life for his unborn child. Yeah. Very cool. Listen, I didn't make... She's the wife. Yeah. She many times is cast as the wife. It's not going in. This is red. Yeah. 1995 Batman Forever. She plays Chase Meridian, who is, of course, the damsel in distress to Val Kilmer's Batman. This is the Batman with... Who is the villain? Two-Face is the villain in this movie? Two-Face and the Riddler, I believe. I mean, don't ask me. I did give... Jim Carrey's the Riddler?

1:01:54a child in my life, a Batman Lego, a Batman Joker Lego for Christmas this year. So, you know, I'm part of the problem now. My - He was, I think he was very happy. Wife took my daughter to Target the other day and she was looking at the toys and my wife said you could have one thing under$5 and the one thing that she chose was a Batmobile. Wow, under$5? Yeah. Well, I mean, it was just Christmas. That's true. No, no, not, not that she wasn't allowed to spend more. Okay. Just that it was, um, The Batmobile is under$5. Oh, it was a Hot Wheel. Oh, I see. Batmobile, Hot Wheel. Okay. Okay. Batman Forever, I think important to her visibility as a movie star, but I don't think it's really a performance anyone cares about, right?

1:02:38I don't. So, Red. Yes, Red? Red, sure. Yeah. Have you seen Batman Forever? Yes, but I didn't revisit it and I don't remember. I saw all the Batmans, you know? This is the one, this is where Chris O'Donnell comes in, right? No, that is Batman and Robin. he is the titular Robin. Oh, okay. Well, maybe I didn't see this one. Also, Alicia Silverstone is Batgirl. That I definitely saw. Yeah, that's Batman and Robin. Okay, and that's George Clooney. Yes. But this is the Val Kilmer one, right? This is the Val Kilmer one. Yeah, I've seen it. Okay, great. 1995 To Die For. This is my favorite Nicole Kidman movie.

1:03:12Yeah. I think this is our best performance. It's a Gus Van Zandt satire, I guess, about a real life story that was actually, I think there's a Max documentary that just came out last year about this real life story. Okay. About a woman who is an aspiring broadcaster and her relationship with her husband and her quest for fame. A movie that is like the great script that is played very amusingly by her where she's sort of like giving away everything and nothing at the same time. And shows, I think, like her range as a performer. It's comedy, but it's not slapstick. Yeah, yeah. it's really it is messed up and again this thing of there is there are like five things going on here and you're communicating all of them while also communicating what your character thinks they should communicate so it's I mean it's all time really great movie great Joaquin Phoenix performance in this movie great Matt Dillon performance great Ileana Douglas performance like just a really really good movie Casey Affleck yeah very early Casey Affleck that's going green I think that's our first hard green 1996 A Portrait of a Lady So, where do you stand on Henry James?

1:04:29I haven't actually read a lot of Henry James Really? Yeah, I don't know why Henry James is very important in the plot of Nodding Hill So I support that Okay, turn to the screw, haven't read it? No Okay I don't know why, I just skipped right over that in my education Should I go back? Is that what I should do this year? I'll read Henry James if you read Bridget Jones No deal The Portrait of a Lady I think is her leveraging some of her power and taste some of her celebrity to get bigger movies made. This is a Jane Campion movie, her first collaboration though not her last with Campion. And it is a simultaneously faithful but also experimental adaptation of the James novel that I rewatched and found extremely dull.

1:05:16The story itself is really cool but I think it's kind of like meanders through a lot of its story and it reminded me a little bit of reading Henry James so I admit to some bias here where I just... It's an iron thing. It's not my thing. Yeah. I think some people like it. I think it's one of Campion's worst movies personally and I'm a big fan of her movies. So I wouldn't put it in. No. It's not particularly memorable. Okay. 1997 The Peacemaker. Yeah. This is George Clooney's big noisy post-ER feature film starring Breakout slash non-Breakout. Right. Because it didn't. Didn't break out. Didn't hit.

1:05:54Didn't hit. It didn't like utterly fail, but it didn't do what was expected of it. I didn't revisit this. I haven't seen it in forever. And I wish that I had because in some ways it's like I wish they would make a million Peacemakers right now. You know, like it is very much like please make an international thriller starring George Clooney and Nicole Kidman. It doesn't matter if it's that good. Like I just would like to watch that every week. But I didn't rewatch it because I was like I don't think this is going to go in. So I need to refocus my time. It's not. I mean, she's playing, you know, a doctor who's trying to avoid a nuclear disaster of some kind.

1:06:30And he's the heroic, I think, governmental figure working beside her. It's, you know, standard action fare. It's just not that great. Okay, 1988 Practical Magic. I would not say this is like one of my big Nicole Kidman movies, but it is one of Nicole Kidman's big movies. This has like a very big following. Yeah. Was this, hold on, when is Hocus Pocus? Yeah, Hocus Pocus is before this, but it is. yeah it's like slightly more grown up hocus pocus it's witches it's Nicole Kidman and Sandra Bullock are witches and it's like and it's gals you like yes I I think this is among her most beloved movies so my impression is that this should go in but I'm not a practical magic expert well let's yellow it okay we'll yellow it for now but we see you practical magic fans absolutely yeah I don't want to disrespect that green green Green, green, green, green, green.

1:07:24Yeah, we're going on a little run here. 1999, Eyes Wide Shut. Obviously, a masterpiece, Stanley Kubrick's Christmas movie about men and women failing to fuck properly and so creating enormous discontent between one another. Did you see, not just to make this about our friends, but you did one of your little stacks? I did for Nicole. Yeah, and did you see my best friend Katie was just like, Eyes Wide Shut, Eyes Wide Shut, Eyes Wide Shut in the comments. Katie, I got you. Okay, also you can text me. I did see that, yes. Yeah, obviously Eyes Wide Shut is going in. I mean, for Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, a very complicated movie in a variety of ways.

1:08:02A movie that obviously... The beginning of the end. Well, we don't know. The beginning of our understanding of the end. Presumably, you know, the incredible amount of attention that was put on this movie and their relationship. The fact that its production was so elongated that it's the last thing that Kubrick made. He died before the movie was released. The suspicions of how it had been edited and what was taken in and put out of the movie. And then the fact that it didn't become a widely acclaimed film, in fact, was heavily criticized upon its release. You guys were wrong. Very obviously a fascinating, gorgeous, confusing, wonderful movie.

1:08:36Love Eyes Wide Shut. Automatically, and particularly Nicole Kidden's performance is awesome in this movie. She's so alluring, so mysterious, and also so vulnerable and open. And a nice little beginning of the capstone to Baby Girl. they're very much in conversation with each other okay 2001 Moulin Rouge green green green green green green this is listen this is okay and I I welcome the hate the most annoying movie ever made the most horrible take it's a horrible take this movie like fucking sucks I watched it again last night and I was like who what how I know I know why it's loved and I know that it's loved and I know that I'm I'm sharing.

1:09:20Just hold this feeling. Hold this feeling. Bottle it. And know that this is how I feel listening to you talk like about so many things. I don't care. How old was I in 2001? I was 17 years old. Elephant love song. Like you are there and you were 17 and you know, or you were not there and you don't know. And that's okay. Like I'm aware that this plays like Wicked played to me for a huge number of people. but I'm telling you like I was there and it was but with turn of the 20th century France singing Smells Like Teen Spirit in a can-can I mean kill me like literally shoot me in the face this movie sucks guys it's fucking horrible we're gonna look back on this and be like what were we doing?

1:10:05no we're already looking back and just being like it does require a lot of chutzpah to just build the whole movie around just like Roxanne being the big it's fine I loved it. I know people love it. I know. I don't want to take their joy from them. It's definitely going in. It's a huge box office success. She's nominated for an Academy Award. She's very good in the movie. I don't think Ewan McGregor is very good in this movie. No. She's giving it her all. It's obviously like, it's one of the most overwhelmingly made movies ever. The amount of cuts, the artificiality of the sets and the world. I mean, it looks like it was made in MS Paint.

1:10:41Like, it looks terrible, guys. Sure. Yes, I agree with you. I don't Jurassic Park was made eight years before this movie I think this movie is a masterpiece and I think Baz Luhrmann is a visionary Baz Luhrmann is a visionary honestly shame on you trying to cater to the children that listen to this podcast I'm not catering to anybody this has been one of my favorite movies for years I'm a grown up I fear I fear no criticism about this take this movie is that's fine you're allowed to have that opinion and it's going in it is going in I agree it's also hugely important to it finds her like a new very wide audience 100 % yeah it's a huge huge movie arguably the most important movie in her career right uh yes I guess in terms of it's an original story she's singing and dancing she's getting awards recognition but that's okay you know what I mean yeah um okay 2001 the others I think this is also going yeah um I just rewatched this again last night Alejandro Amenabar's Ghost Story just came up on the Ghost Stories episode that we did not so long ago which one was that?

1:11:52I can't remember honestly we've done so many of these I don't think I listened to that one but I'm a devoted listener of the big picture maybe it was last year could have been last year beautiful movie 24 year later spoiler alert right right right insane twist like one of the great theater twists coming hot on the heels of The Sixth Sense since these two movies are sort of paired in many ways. She's really good at it. And the way that you were describing Kidman's performance, that sense of like reserve, is on display, I think, at its best in this movie. Not a very funny movie, not a very fun movie per se, or a stately quiet movie.

1:12:29The exact polar opposite of Moulin Rouge and the fact that they happen in the same year shows like her incredible dynamic strength. The amount of restraint that I am showing not like bursting into the Moulin Rouge version of Heroes, it's just really I should get a prize yeah definitely you should get a prize 2001 Birthday Girl I haven't seen this it's a thriller starring is it Ben Chaplin? I think Ben Chaplin I don't know I haven't seen that about a Russian girl it's not very good okay this is one of those things where it was like okay so in in the same year she released Moulin Rouge the others and Birthday Girl this is an actress who really likes working.

1:13:13Yeah. And three very different kinds of performances. Birthday Girl was not a success and looks a lot more like a lot of the movies that are coming later in her career. 2002, The Hours. Okay. So this one's her Oscar. Don't like this movie and sort of a lame performance. Not a lame performance. She's perfectly fine. So this is an adaptation of the Michael Cunningham novel. It's like a nesting doll take on Mrs. Dalloway, the Virginia Woolf novel. Nicole came in and plays Virginia Woolf in one of three timelines, and she's just kind of siloed off being unhappy, as Virginia Woolf famously was. And she wears the nose, so she doesn't really look like herself.

1:13:58This comes very soon after her divorce from Tom Cruise, and it all comes together, and she wins Best Actress. So I guess we have to put it in, but do I want to put it in? No. Let's yellow it. Okay. I'm not a fan of this movie either. I do understand why she's won. I think it is a little bit of a like, whoops, we should have given it to her for Moulin Rouge and the others in a collective way and did not do that. And so we're kind of making up for it because of the prosthetics. And the narrative and the divorce and that was a whole thing. She's coming off of an incredible run of success that is getting recognized.

1:14:34It's just getting recognized in kind of the most boring Oscar-y way. 2003's Dogville very challenging Lars von Trier movie yeah I think it's debatable whether or not it should go in I think it's this is the beginning of her really taking chances because this is a really hard movie that is hard to watch at times that it clearly was hard to make right she did not return for the continuation of this Manderley Bryce Dallas Howard was recast in her role I think I'm getting that right if I'm getting that wrong excuse me I have I have some other quote unquote challenging movies that I want to put in.

1:15:09So let's yellow this. Yeah. Okay. We'll acknowledge Dogville, you know, Von Trier, complicated figure in movie history. He's made some amazing films. This is among his best, certainly among his best American productions. Right. Okay. 2003 is The Human Stain, which is a really, really bad movie. Another Robert Benton movie. An adaptation of, is the Phil Broth novel? Yes. Which is based on Anatole Broyard, who was a famous literary critic and like his life story, which I weirdly studied in a long class in college. Okay. He's like one of the great literary critics of all time but has this incredibly complicated personal story that if you haven't seen it, I guess is worth learning about.

1:15:50He is notably played by Anthony Hopkins in this movie, which I would say is a mistake. Okay. Something I just want to put out there. The human stain is not going in. Okay. 2003's Cold Mountain. I didn't rewatch it. Did you rewatch it? I did. Anthony Minghella's follow-up to The Talented Mr. Ripley. Yes, which was the follow-up to The English Patient. Two movies I adore. I do not adore Cold Mountain. Okay. This is also based on a big novel. Yeah. And Nicole Kidman has sort of the thankless part. Renee Zellweger is her sidekick friend and wins an Academy Award for it. And she's just sort of pining and being beautiful and writing letters.

1:16:27She's the only one who falls in love with Jude Law. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Jude Law. She's the Penelope part. Yeah. I mean, she looks very beautiful. But... Yeah, at the time I was not a huge fan of this movie either. But, you know, she got an Oscar nomination for this movie. Did she not? I don't actually know if she did. Jude Law did. Let me see here. And Renee Zellweger did. No, you're right. She did not. Yeah. She did not. Okay. I feel comfortable making this read. We don't have to put that in. Yeah. With respect. Okay, now's your time. Well, she's very good in The Stafford Wives. And it's another example of her taking a role and giving a performance that plays with the public perception of her.

1:17:10And with the idea of perfection and with the idea of reserve. And I do also think this introduces the Stafford Wives to a new generation of people. She is really good in it. Like the movie is. It's not very good. Not good and not as good as the original. Yeah. Directed by the great Frank Oz. I think we can yellow it. I think it's probably red. Okay. I don't think it's going to make the cut. All right, that's fine. 2004's Birth. Green. I agree. I love, this is my favorite Jonathan Glazer film. This is one of the best films of the century. I think which Jonathan Glazer movie we should consider for 25 for 25 is a very interesting conversation.

1:17:48Because he's made four movies. This would be my pick. This is a movie that was very controversial and then ignored in its time about a young woman who loses, or about a woman who loses her husband and who is about to be remarried and a 10-year-old boy knocks on her door in her apartment in New York City and says, I am Sean. I'm your husband. And this 10-year-old boy is convinced that he is the man who died who she was married to. And they begin this complicated relationship trying to unpack what is really going on. Just beautiful, beguiling movie. Yeah. And it's a, the flavor of Unwrapped unraveling that she does in this movie is again, like really controlled in it.

1:18:35But, and I guess she unraveled in a lot of movies. That's kind of one of her specialties, but she finds a new way to do it every time. And like the weirdness and the, and the hope that goes into just this absolutely messed up situation is, and, and the, and she just goes for it. Like that is the Nicole Kidman thing is that she's not like ever trying to make it prettier or make you like her. So she is stunning in this movie. She has a very short haircut. There's a sequence. There's a long sequence at the opera that is just a tight close up on her as she is sort of losing control of her feelings.

1:19:13That is amazing. There's a collection on the Criterion channel right now that is a bunch of Nicole Kidman movies. This movie is like not available in Blu-ray 4K, for example, and I don't think it's streaming in a ton of places. It is streaming on Criterion. I'll call all my friends. and let them know and they'll get you a 4K. I would love for there to be a 4K. I mean, there should be a 4K. If there's a 4K of I don't know what else. A lot of the movies on this list have a 4K. Birth does not. I'll try to remember what the other films are. I know Margot at the Wedding is also on Criterion right now along with some others.

1:19:432005 The Interpreter. This is a Sidney Pollack thriller starring Sean Penn that I watched, I think for the first time last year. And it's fine. I remember seeing it in theaters. This is another Peacemaker thing, you know? Yeah, it's not quite as like action-y. It's more of a thriller. That's fine. Just like make, you know, fairly generic, mediocre, international intrigue films starring movie stars. And I'll watch every one of them. I didn't get to revisit this. But I think I would have had a nice time at the movies in my home. It's the ultimate two and a half star movie. It's not bad by any means.

1:20:20But it's the kind of, the genre of two and a half star movie that I like. Okay. So that's all. Well, it's read in this formulation. Yeah. Nevertheless, I hear what you're saying. Okay. Now is a really important conversation for you. Do-do. Do-do. Are you going to make the case for 2005's Bewitched? No, but no, it's not good. It's not good. She's good in it. It's not. Written and directed by? By my beloved Nora Ephron. Yes. Adapted from the TV show. Yes. Bobby, do people of your generation know about Bewitched? I don't, but people in my generation could. Jack, thumbs up, thumbs down through the control room.

1:20:52Thumbs down. Okay. You don't know what the television show Bewitched is? You didn't have access to Nick at Night. Well, I know what it is, but it was not important. Yeah. I did have Nick at Night, but they were 100 hours of Bewitched. Again, this is a Nick at Night divide. They were doing important. You didn't have Nick at Night growing up? I did have Nick at Night, but they were playing nothing but Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. Oh, God. Wow. That's so crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Again, open the schools. Yeah. Nick at Night was the school. I can't say that Bewitched is like cultural enrichment, but it was a signature.

1:21:21It was one of 25 shows that was on Nick and Night that we probably watched all the time. I've seen so many. Yeah, because there was nothing else on. Bewitched was a great sitcom. She's very funny. This movie, I think, is underrated but not good. Like, it was considered a fiasco at the time. And I think what Nora Ephron is going for about this blurring of the Isabel Bigelow actress character and Samantha the real witch. and the sort of like persona-esque, like are they the same person thing? It's kind of cool. No, it's cool. And a lot of the industry stuff is like very good because Nora Ephron knows it so well.

1:21:58And it's like filmed in LA. I think, you know, it's like - All this backlot stuff going on when they're shooting the show. And like Beverly Hills Hotel and all sorts of it. Yeah. It's weirdly like, it's like all wrong, but there's something very cool underneath it that I like. It's definitely red. It was not a big success. But it's an interesting, like if we ever did a Nora Ephron thing which we actually haven't done it would be cool to have to spend some time talking about it because I haven't rewatched it in a while okay 2006 Fur this is about Diane Arbus the photographer who shot unusual people in our world and had a curiosity it is interesting it's kind of a very small character study the kind of movie that you know she made Bewitched so she could make fur okay yeah it's okay alright it's red it's not going in I haven't seen it.

1:22:462006's Happy Feet. Speak on it. This is George Miller's animated Penguin movie that I wish I liked a little bit more. She does have a significant part in it, but this is a film with her country person, George. Yeah. You know, I didn't include it in the box office list because it's just a voice performance, but it would be very high in her box office successes. I didn't know that that was one of your, that was one of your filters. It is in this case. Okay. Wags Happy Feet, is that a big one for you? It actually is. Although I don't think it's very good. I remember watching it a lot and not really liking it by the second half.

1:23:20But it's really fun when the penguins are dancing at the beginning. You're like, whoa, what's going on here? Oh, I've seen the clip of the penguins dancing. Yeah. I think that this might actually be the first time that I realized Prince was cool. It was because they sing Kiss in the opening five minutes of this movie. I was like, oh, what's this song? This song has a little juice behind it. And then I discovered Prince. It's fun. I tried to watch it with Alice when we were doing Furiosa. and she was not really super into it. So I'm going to say Happy Feet is Red. This came out like concurrently with March of the Penguins, which was like a documentary about Emperor Penguins.

1:23:53And I was like, well, if I'm going to have to watch Penguins on screen, this is much more fun than March of the Penguins. In 2007, The Invasion. Did you see this? No, I didn't. Okay, so this stars Nicole Kidman and Daniel Craig. This is an Invasion of the Body Snatchers remake directed by Oliver Hirschbegel, who directed Downfall, the film about Hitler.

1:24:14I wish this movie was better. As someone who is dedicated a lot of time studying all of the adaptations of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, it doesn't really get there. It has some style. The performances are pretty good. This story always works for me. Yeah. It always feels resonant because it always feels like we're living in a dystopia where people are not being their real selves. But it's not a hit. So I'm making it right. 2007, Margot at the Wedding. Green, green, green, green, green, green, green. I mean, this is, it's all so uncomfortable. It's the most unpleasant movie. That it borders on unwatchable.

1:24:50It is so unpleasant. It is expertly done and knows exactly what it's, it's trying to be unpleasant. Yeah. This is Noah Baumbach's, I think it's his follow-up to The Squid and the Whale. Is that right? Yes. And it stars Nicole Kidman and Jennifer Jason Leigh and Jack Black. Nicole Kidman is a single mother who is borderline repellent. yeah she's awful yeah really nasty person but the movie doesn't do the thing that like when you are introduced to a nasty you know what it is really a neat little pairing with is hard truths which have you seen that yet? no no no I'm going to see it so when you see that I think you'll see a little bit of it I think it's a really really really sharp movie great Jennifer Jason Leigh performance in this movie too you think it's green?

1:25:33yeah she is just so vividly awful yeah she's really good in this in a way it's like and again just like the absolute I'm not going to try to make you like me even for a tiny second. Like this came out, I think Rachel getting married is like 2008. But so there was like this era of actresses you like being really awful at small family weddings. And Heather is very good in Rachel at the wedding and is dealing with like, it's a slightly different, it's someone who has done a lot of wrong. You know, as opposed to just like an awful person. But she's not as ugly as Nicole Kidman is. Like Nicole Kidman goes for it.

1:26:19I like your certainty. I do also remember, I think that I made my dad see Squid and the Whale and then Margo at the wedding. And he refused to see a Noah Baumbach film. I think for the rest of his life. I don't know. I don't think he considered that maybe he played a part in making you a person who likes Noah Baumbach movies. That would be an interesting conversation for you guys to have. 2007, The Golden Compass. This is not going in. I don't think so. Yeah. I, what, is this book called The Golden Compass? The first one is, it's a series. What are the others called? Oh, I don't remember, but I think it's The Golden Compass series.

1:26:59It's Philip Pullman. Philip Pullman. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're quite something. quite something. They're very, they're, um, they're, they're dense and they have a lot more, you know, it's, it's like fantasy with like religious ideas, really that they're, they're a little subversive. I suppose. This is a talking polar bear. Um, yeah, there's, this is also the thing where you have a, um, it's called a, I, golden comers people don't come at me on the pronunciations. I don't know whether it's like demon or Damon, what are we doing here? But you have like a, um, a little person who's following you not a person a sort of spectral creature that's an animal that represents things about you but also it can do things for you I see this series is called the His Dark Materials His Dark Materials that's right because then yes thank you it was adapted into the TV show that's right it was a TV show it was only called The Golden Compass in North America and the rest of the world it was called Northern Lights the first book oh okay just a little fun fact from Wikipedia for you guys yeah this was a a reunion from uh The same year, the invasion of Daniel Craig.

1:28:07Daniel Craig's also in this movie. Oh, right. In the same year, Daniel Craig and Nicole Kidman made a movie together. Okay. Made two movies together. Very weird. 2008 Australia. I just watched, in its entirety, the extended version of this movie, which is called Far Away Downs. Okay. This is Nicole Kidman's reunion with Baz Luhrmann. It was, you know, I think like a two and a half hour, almost three hour movie. and then it was expanded into a four hour feature series. So you sat down and watched four hours. Yeah, maybe three and a half hours. what'd you do while respond to some emails. Okay. You know, I watched the first hour pretty intently to get the vibe.

1:28:46I got the vibe. You know, listeners of the show know Baz is not really my thing. I really love the first two Baz Luhrmann movies. Strictly Ballroom and Romeo and Juliet. Great movies. Everything since then, I can't even, I can't hear it. Even the Gatsby, I just can't, I can't get into it all. and this one was really bad and I regret spending three and a half hours watching it. You didn't see it? I saw it when it came out. When it was Australia. I didn't revisit it. Yeah. It was, it's Nicole Kidman and Hugh Jackman. Oh my God, we have so many more movies. Okay, let's go a little faster. Number, I'm really hungry.

1:29:192009, nine. This is Rob Marshall's Daniel Day-Lewis musical. Sure. Nicole Kidman has a very small part in this movie. It's also a disastrous film. it's a note from me. 2010 is a hard one to talk about. Rabbit Hole. Yes. Oscar nominated for this movie. This is our introduction to Miles Teller. Directed by John Cameron Mitchell, which I think is his follow-up to Hedwig. Right. Maybe Short Bus came between them. Very good movie and a very good performance. Very small movie. Did you ever see this movie? I did at the time and I am not revisiting it because of obvious reasons. It's a really, really hard movie about parents who've lost a child.

1:29:58Yeah. And I haven't seen it in a long time either, but I do feel like it's one of the best things she's done. I would say we should at least yellow it because it's damn good. Okay, that's fine. Although it does not have like a, I feel like it doesn't really have much of a reputation these days. Anyhow, 2011, just go with it. Now, if Bill Simmons were sitting in my seat, this would be Otto Green. Right. This is a movie that his family loves. Sure. I rewatched it last night. You did? Yeah. I wouldn't say that it is my favorite of the Adam Sandler takes all of his friends to a beautiful destination for an extended period of time films.

1:30:33I also don't think Nicole Kidman's that good in it. She's fine, and she kind of has a thankless part, but it's not that funny. What would you say is your favorite of the Adam Sandler brings all of his friends on a vacation movie? You don't mess with the Zohan? I liked the first murder mystery. Oh, yeah, you did like it. Yeah. Okay. Second one. Yeah, but you know, it's that they're on a boat in the Mediterranean and they're doing Agatha Christie send up that was good by me it's a good call Just Go With It is read 2011's Trespass is the film I was referring to earlier with Nicolas Cage haven't seen it so it's read okay no offense to the fine people who made Trespass 2012's The Paperboy right this is Lee Daniels' 1950's set melodrama right in which remind me is it Nicole Kidman pisses on Zac Efron yes correct I think it's green.

1:31:28I think this is one of the funniest performances. Incredibly brave. Really weird movie. If you're like, I like Camp Nicole Kidman. I don't want the Moulin Rouge version. I want this version. I don't disagree with you. So, this is a very fun movie. It's ridiculous. But it was, everyone is leaning into it. It was a real thing at the time. Yeah, McConaughey is leaning into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. David Oyelowo. We can yellow it. Okay. But I think it's a lot of fun. How many greens do we have right now? That's a good thing to know. One, two, three, four, five, six. Okay. Yeah, yellow seems fine. Things get a little rocky in the back half here, so I'm not too worried about it.

1:32:05Yeah, yeah, yeah. 2013 Stoker. Tricky one. Park Chan-wook, divisive movie. I think this is his only English language film. She has the lead role. She's opposite Matthew Goode. Very steamy movie. Mia Wasikowska as well. I love this movie. I loved it when it came out. I don't remember where I put it on my list back in 2013 when I was just putting them on Tumblr, but I seem to remember being in the top 10, maybe the top 15. It's really cool. It got really ignored. She also goes into like a real movie dead zone after this movie. Yes. Where there's a bunch of stuff that just doesn't work or doesn't hit or isn't good.

1:32:43I don't know if Stoker, when I announced that we were doing this, a lot of people were like, Stoker, Otto Green, bro. But it's a bit of, you know, it's for the cinephiles. Speak your truth. Let's yellow it so we can come back to it because I really like Stonehenge. Yeah. 2013 The Railway Man have not seen the film. Nor have I. Okay. 2014. That's red, Bob. Mm-hmm. 2014 Grace of Monaco. I watched this movie this week. Not good. So boring. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so boring. It's only about Prince Rainier negotiating taxes. I mean, I don't... While she's not an actor anymore? Yeah. What? I don't know because there's like all sorts of rumors and sad stuff.

1:33:22And I mean, and like the way that she dies is also Grace, Princess Grace. But it was years later when she died. It's like they're focusing on this like short period. I didn't make the movie. So strange. But this is also sort of like the Pablo Lorraine project like before Jackie. It is. But I would argue what happens with less craft. Yeah. It's Olivier Dahan, I think is the filmmaker who made La Vie en Rose. Right. So it sounds like it should be good, but it is not good. This is also right around the time that Naomi Watts makes her Princess Diana movie. so they're both trying to do like the famous that's right dead blondes thing that's right anyway this it's not going in I agree it's not going in the next movie before I go to sleep I also haven't seen its distributor in the United States was Clarius Entertainment which is a company I've never heard of don't know it stars Mark Strong Colin Firth and Nicole Kidman oh what's it about it's directed by Rowan Joffe um a psychological thriller based on an S.J.

1:34:22Watson novel. I mean, maybe I would like that. You might. I haven't seen it. It might be like The Interpreter. It's not going in. Okay. No, it's not. Red. 2014's Paddington? Doesn't need to go in. We can honor a yellow. Okay. She's the villain. Millicent Clyde. Right. She's a taxidermist. And, you know, there's a whole thing about her father and whatever. um Paddington 2 is preferred in my household as it is among the dads of Paddington I understand it I think it is a cinematically um higher achievement but also Knox's feedback is that there's more Paddington in Paddington 2 I see so we don't need all that origin that's just something to think about and well it's kind of like a first Avenger versus the winter soldier yeah okay um okay 2015 Paddington yellow but it's not going in 2015 Strangerland I don't know what this is.

1:35:15I haven't seen it. Probably won't be seeing it. There's only so much I can do to prepare for this show. I mean, I'm also in this run. The same is also true of The Family Fang. Don't know what it is. Haven't seen it. It might be wonderful. She plays Annie Fang. Okay. Hang on now. You skipped 2015's Queen of the Desert. Oh, Queen of the Desert. My bad. Have I seen Queen of the... I don't know if I've seen any of these movies. Hold on. You've seen Queen of the Desert? Queen of the Desert is a Werner Herzog film. Oh, I haven't seen this. I haven't seen it either. It's about Gertrude Bell. It's a bio doc.

1:35:47Okay. The Family Fang. Something is happening in movies here. The Family Fang is directed by Jason Bateman. And it's, hold on, but we're not, Wikipedia is not giving me a log like, come on. The Family Fang enters a bank, Baxter robs a teller for lollipops, shoots and Caleb brushes. I don't even know what this sentence means. Okay. So I don't know what's going on with, Family Fang A brother and sister Return to their family home In search of their World famous parents Who have disappeared That was good But I have never seen it Still I mean this is Remarkable It's It's written by David Lindsay Abert Who wrote Rabbit Hole That I have never heard of this movie Pulitzer Press winner Yeah Okay I've never heard of this movie Nor have I It's not going in If there are huge Family Fang heads out there let us know we apologize Bateman congrats on Carrion Carrion bro good job did you see Carrion you know what Carrion is oh I thought you were saying like I thought you were saying a different thing not keep calm and carry on I was saying carry on the film um I do no I thought you were saying it like with an eye and I was like I don't know what's happening here like carrion like dead yeah yeah yeah like what vultures eat um I have not yet seen it I'm aware um obviously listen to the Chris Ryan segment yep I look forward to it it's fun it's one of the most watched films in Netflix history 2015's Secret in Their Eyes this is a film you were referring to earlier a star-studded affair I think the only time that Nicole Kidman and Julia Roberts are featured in a film together, Chiwetel Ejiofor this is a film based on a very successful 2009 Argentine Argentine film that is one of the great international movies the last 25 years this version stinks.

1:37:43Yeah. And this was also like a real it's like it didn't happen. Yeah. Billy Ray is a writer and director writer director I like movie doesn't work that well. Okay. 2016 this is the movie I was referring to that I was like what is this? Who was alive when this happened? Yeah. The movie is called Genius. Do you know this movie? No. Okay. Let me tell you a bit about this movie. I'm going to pull it up for you right now. I'm reading it. So it's directed by Michael Grandage who's best known for his stage direction. He also directed My Policeman in the Harry Styles movie that came out a couple of years ago.

1:38:13That's different than, what was the, hey, Mr. Policeman, I gave you all the clues. That was the snowman. Right, but it was, hey, Mr. Police, I gave you all the clues. I think that's right, yeah. That movie was just announced it'll be released on 4K. Birth not available on 4K. The Snowman starring Michael Fassbender will be. Okay, this is a movie about Thomas Wolfe in New York City trying to get his novel, Oh Lost published and he goes to Maxwell Perkins the editor and he tries to get this book edited down from like 5 ,000 pages to something that the world would actually want. Okay, so Jude Law is Thomas Wolfe and Colin Firth is Maxwell Perkins.

1:38:53Furthermore, Nicole Kidman is Aileen Bernstein. Oh my God. Dominic West is Ernest Hemingway. Guy Pearce is F. Scott Fitzgerald. Laura Linney plays Colin Firth's character's wife Louise Perkins and Vanessa Kirby is Zelda Fitzgerald. Vanessa Kirby as Zelda Fitzgerald inspired casting wow not a living soul has seen this film here's one thing what is this listen I don't know what this is but okay Dominic West English Guy Pearce Australian Vanessa Kirby English I was telling I said the same thing to Chris when I was telling him about this movie yesterday this is this reminds me are you watching The Agency I'm not actually but I hope to we're only a few episodes in because a lot of catching up to do but Dominic West is playing like basically the head of the CIA.

1:39:41Cool. And I just... George Tenet? Listen, I... Sometimes we do know these actors' nationalities and sometimes we do need Americans to play Americans. You know, when it's Ernest Hemingway and F. Scott Fitzgerald. I watched a little bit of this and Jude Law doing like, I'm just here in the big town ready to write my book as Thomas Wolfe. It really doesn't work that well. This movie's written by John Logan who wrote Gladiator and Skyfall and many, many good movies. Amazing that this even happened. 2016 Lion Academy Award nominated for this movie. Yeah. That I don't think is that great. No. Stars Dev Patel.

1:40:21I would say it's red. I don't feel any need to put it in. Okay. 2017 How to Talk to Girls at Parties, very small part in this A24 movie. I think, is it Elle Fanning is the star of this movie? Definitely not going in red. The Killing of a Sacred Deer. This movie and Baby Girl have something in common about how Nicole Kidman's characters like to have sex. Yeah. That's kind of weird that that's come up again. I love The Killing of a Sacred Deer, one of my favorite Yorgos Slantamos movies. I don't know that this needs to go in, though. It's a pretty bold performance. Like, to be fair, how she does or doesn't like to have sex is a recurring theme in movies.

1:40:56In her movies or in all movies? In her movies. How Nicole Kidman likes to have sex is a recurring theme in all movies. got it killing of a second year in or out yellow the beguiled Sofia Coppola we don't need to do it you don't even want to yellow it just to pay homage it's not my favorite Sofia Coppola film I think it's a pretty interesting movie I'm not sure that Nicole it's like Nicole Kidman's best work or anything like that yeah I mean very good Kirk Kirsten Dunst performance yeah I'm not friends with Kirsten Dunst yet in case anyone's wondering another situation where she made two movies in the same year with the same actor just like she had The Invasion and the Golden Compass with Daniel Craig.

1:41:35Colin Farrell. She has Colin Farrell in The Killing of a Sacred Deer and the Beguile. That's interesting. I wonder if that's something she does on purpose. She was also in The Upside, which is a remake of a French film that starred Bryan Cranston and Kevin Hart and was a huge box office success and I've never heard a person talk about it. I'll tell you what, I saw it in a movie theater and I kind of liked it. This was a, it came out like early January. I remember this and everyone was like, oh, we all saw The Upside except for movie people. Yeah. It was not a movie people movie. Okay. But it was pretty enjoyable.

1:42:05She has a kind of a nothing part in it. 2018's Destroyer. I love this movie. Me too. I don't, were you on the show when this came out? I. Because Karin Kusama came on and we talked about it, but I don't think you were on yet. No, I think that I was doing award stuff. Okay. Because I went to. Yeah, because I, yeah, and because it was at least part of the awards conversation. Did we talk about it? And so I think we talked about how much we liked it. This is really good. Yeah, this is a really good movie. And like, And also really cool that Nicole Kidman did it. And this is around the time that she very publicly is like, I am going to start working with more female directors.

1:42:38I'm going to make that part of my career strategy to try to promote the work and gets this movie made and seen and talked about in awards season. Yes. It's very good. I'm not, I would yellow it just out of personal affection. I'm not sure if it goes into like a haul for Kidman, but it's meaningful for the reason that you just described. 2018's Boy Erased. this is Joel Edgerton's movie about a couple and their son who is struggling with his queer identity, I guess, or his parents are struggling with his queer identity. His parents are. They sent him to conversion therapy camp. It's upsetting, but I don't think...

1:43:15Sad movie, but not a great movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 2018's Aquaman. If you'd like. No, I think it's red. Okay. I'd like to honor Queen Atlanta. Queen Atlanta likes to have sex with humans. Yeah. it's the same sex scene as the motel scene in Baby Girl. I thought you were going to say the shape of water. Is it like a one-time thing? Not sure. Okay. Not sure. Well, it's kind of a you up situation. So, so Patrick Wilson is the brother? Yeah, Orm? What's his parentage? I don't, I can't remember. Okay. Some other fisherman? Yeah, listen, I do the work. Why can't you do the work? She's whoring on the shoreline of wherever he lives.

1:43:57Okay. Is that a Pacific Coast situation or Atlantic Coast? I can't remember. Is it Maine? I mean. Where's Aquaman from? More of a Red Sox guy? If it's not. More of a San Francisco Giants fan? If it's not Atlantic based, then we've named Atlantis inappropriately. Should we do an Aquaman rewatch? Yeah. Okay. Aquaman's red. The Goldfinch is also red. It is. This was such a disappointment. What a shame. 2019's Bombshell. That Stranger Kids thing is in it? No. The what thing? The Goldfinch. The Stranger Kids thing? what's that show called? Stranger Things. Stranger Things Kids. That's Stranger Kids.

1:44:31That would be a tough name for that show. The nouns are still on their way back. Yeah. It takes time. 2019's Bombshell. No. She has a small part in this movie. She's pretty good in it but I don't think it's in the whole time. 2020's The Prom was atrocious. Who was she in The Prom? I don't know but her character's name is Angie Dickinson. That is funny. I don't think she's playing the Angie Dickinson. 2021 being the Ricardos. She was good. One of your favorite films of that year. Oscar nominated for this very bad movie for the movie that to me that like broke the curse on the Sorkin thing for me where I was like oh it's curtains for this dude and I like a lot of his scripts a great deal isn't that the most recent Sorkin movie because this is after or was was Trial of the Chicago 7 2020 and then Being the Ricardos was 2021 yes that sounds right yeah and I mean Trial of the Chicago 7 had some stuff I liked Being the Ricardos I found painful.

1:45:26She was good in it. Fine. She's fine. Okay. At least she's being funny and kind of, all right, whatever. I don't need to do it. I don't need to defend it. It doesn't need to go in. It's like a bad biopic, you know? She didn't get Oscar nominated, but it felt like kind of a weird nomination. It's like you don't nominate her for shit like to destroy her. you know, Jadger Hoover called and said that she's not on the list. And Javier Bergadam got to announce that to everyone. Huge moment. Just like Deus Ex, the Hoover. Great stuff. Absolutely. It was a great movie about how she's not a communist. So that's awesome.

1:46:04Okay. 2022 is The Northman. Mm-hmm. I don't know if this is going in, but she's amazing for like eight minutes in this movie. Okay. She has a turn. You didn't see this. No, I didn't. Oh, goddamn. Really good. I'm, I'm open to it. It's not really a very big part. Okay. But, she has a sequence with Alexander Skarsgård that is excellent. Do they have sex? Obviously people not exactly. Oh, okay. Well, now I've got to pull that up. Well, it's more complicated than you think. Oh, well. Is she his mother? Maybe you should watch the film. Eggers is back in the news. Nosferatu is a huge hit. I'm going to go see it.

1:46:42Every man in my life has been like, actually Amanda, I think you would like Nosferatu. So sometimes I listen to the man in my life. You might enjoy it. I'll say, yeah, well, Yellow Northman I don't think it's going to make the cut. 2023, Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom not going in. Queen Adelana. I was trying to think of more inappropriate questions to ask you, but we've covered it. 2024, your favorite film of the year, A Family Affair. I felt that she and Zac Efron were quite charming in this film. A reunion of the Paperboy duo. Yes. Did she pee on him in that movie as well? You watched this. I watched like the first hour and 10 minutes and I was like, I don't know.

1:47:21Life is too short. I liked her wardrobe a lot. I mean, I had a lot of questions about... So in both this and the TV series, A Perfect Couple, also on Netflix this year, she plays a writer of some renown. This one, she seems to be more of a high literary sensation. She freelances for Vogue as the literary writer, as opposed to a Colleen Hoover type person. in a perfect couple she seems to be a little more mass market she's basically being Ellen Hildebrand she affords just like an incredible amount her house is sick her house is amazing she did you or say and also yeah I think so and also just like a very classic like mishmash of like LA real estate exteriors almost like Beamer in the driveway yeah and it's like you know but it's like right on the ocean which doesn't exist beautiful house great clothes I like didn't have a bad time watching this it doesn't need to go in okay it's the Instagram is evil of streaming movies in my opinion you can have this trust me unless you want to pay a mortgage and have a family and try to manage your career while managing the rest of this world oh so you so you think it sets unrealistic expectations I do I mean yeah you can have it all including Zac Efron's cox she does say that Vogue pays her $4 a word.

1:48:51She does say that. Yeah. What does that get you in this economy? One It's true. Parton of eggs. It's true. Definitely not that house or any of those clothes. Okay. Baby Girl. I don't think so. But for Well but it's early. It's early. So it like might be down the road. We very rarely put the new one in. Yeah. Well we we gotta go through all the other stuff. Okay. So Baby Girl will yellow. Okay. Spellbound is a voice performance for a Netflix film this year. Tell me more. Haven't seen it. Oh, okay. You're really falling down on your responsibilities. Yeah. Thanks for pointing that out. I had, listen, I did a lot of work on A Family Affair and I can speak to the TV shows shortly.

1:49:29Appreciate that. She's worked on a lot of TV. I don't ultimately think we should include any TV in here, but there would be one exception. Big Little Lies. Yes. So just for context, through the 80s, she appeared in a number of TV shows, a lot of episodic television. She also was a regular on a handful of shows. She also appeared in a very well-known miniseries called Vietnam. Nicole Kidman was born during Vietnam. Her parents lived in Hawaii when she was born. Her father was a professor of some regard. She has dual citizenship in our country and in Australia. Her family eventually went back to Australia.

1:50:05I think Vietnam was a meaningful conflict and something that her parents were focused on when she was younger. I haven't seen this series, but apparently it's very good, this Vietnam miniseries that came out in 1987. I want to check that out. She's also on a show called Bangkok Hilton. She had like six or seven appearances. And then nothing until 2012. She's in the HBO movie Hemingway and Gellhorn. Sure. Opposite Clive Owen. Yeah. Another film that she appears in about Ernest Hemingway. And another time that a British person is playing Ernest Hemingway. That's right. I think it's also directed by Philip Noyce, who was the director of Dead Calm.

1:50:40Dead Calm. Not going in. Big Little Lies comes in 2017. You could make a real case for this. So this kicks off a stretch here where we get in a seven-year period on television in sort of fancy streaming prestige TV. Two seasons of Big Little Lies. Top of the Lake China Girl, the second season of Top of the Lake. The Undoing on HBO. Horrible ending, but pretty good. I mean, it was fun. Very watchable. It was like what it was. Very watchable. It was Nicole and Hugh Grant, so it was good for you. Nine Perfect Strangers. I actually never saw this even though I read the book. Did not like it. one episode of Roar on Apple TV Plus.

1:51:16Lioness. Which would be remiss to omit. I keep calling it Lioness. Shouldn't it be Lioness? Like where's the emphasis on the wrong syllable there? I am not a part of the Lioness Hive even though my husband has been converted. Went straight from Landman into Lioness. Did you know Nicole Kidman is not the titular Lioness? That's Zoe Saldana, right? Yeah. Who is the director of the CIA? in Lioness. Do you know? No. Morgan Freeman? No. I believe it's Michael Kelly and Morgan Freeman is the Secretary of Defense. Sick. I have not seen the show. I mean, that's a, it's a whole world. Lulu Wang's TV show, Expats, which I have not seen, also came out last year.

1:52:00She stars in that. I wanted to read the book and then watch it, but... You had a baby instead. Well, it is, it's also about bad things happen to a kid. Okay. I was just like, I can't do it. Also a recurring and her work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then 2024, you mentioned The Perfect Couple, which is the series that she was on last year. Tremendous trash. I had a fantastic time. It's really, really poor decisions made in the casting of every single man on that show, except for Liev Schreiber, who is having the time of his life. And I don't know if you guys heard about the flash mob credit sequence or the flash mob title sequence.

1:52:35I have, yeah. Which they all hated, except for Liev Schreiber, who was like, no, no, no, I really want to do this. So that's pretty legendary. doesn't need to go in. Her accent is all over the damn place. She just like starts being British about three quarters of the way in. That is something that occasionally happens in her work. She'll go for an accent pretty big and then it'll waver at times. Yeah. Let me make the case for Big Little Lies. Good. It's a sensation in terms of television, of movie stars doing television. I mean like that, and it's really Nicole Kidman and Reese Witherspoon doing it is what turns the tide.

1:53:12And I mean, that's like, I guess, bad for us, but it's fine for their bank accounts. I think it's pinging back right now, so I'm not so worried about it. And it's also, it starts the whole Reese Witherspoon thing, the book adaptation thing. It was part of the whole produced by women working with it. It is like really essential in recent industry as well as in her career. And also corresponds with sort of a resurgence and her doing things we actually care about work-wise. I'll tell you what, I'm on board. Okay. We can include it for the first time ever, a television show, in a Hall of Fame on a movie podcast.

1:53:48Well, here's the other case I was going to make. Okay. The AMC promo. I get it, but no. Like, I get it, but no. Because then we're getting into a place where ad campaigns are eligible at all times, and that's a slippery slope. And I don't want it. Big Little Lies is a work of art. AMC is not. The Hall of Fame is for art. What was the Kevin Costner thing that I was so mad about? When he was promoting his coffee? Green Mountain coffee? I mean, I was mad about that too. So when you wouldn't put Molly's Game in the Kevin Costner Hall of Fame, I was angry because I really thought we'd like have - You on this show?

1:54:28I thought that we had something together. Right now I'm not angry. I'm just disappointed. because like I have the galaxy brain. You know, I can see all of it and you're usually riding with me and you're not riding with me. Well, I'll tell you what, you can have one or the other. You can have Big Little Lies or you can have the AMC ad and if you choose the AMC ad, I will support you. That's not fair. That's hard. Bob, where are you on this? On the split between whether we should, to be clear, are we greening one of these or are we just, yeah, yeah, yeah. one is getting it's gotta be Big Little Lies I know it has to be Big Little Lies this woman's made 380 films and we're cutting one of them out it's Big Little Lies do you want to have an opinion Bob?

1:55:11oh I think it's definitely Big Little Lies it's like actually a performance I mean the ad is one thing it's not really even a commercial though it was like for the 100 year anniversary of AMC Theaters right when it came out but I mean it is for a corporation that I think has run very poorly these are all for corporations that are run poorly just for the record that's a great point in dying Hollywood today. Okay, so Big Little Lies. I think that's a good one. I like the case that you made for it. We all watched it. It was very entertaining. Their first season was good. Also, Alexander Skarsgård.

1:55:43I think that once again, that's why they worked together. I miss him. Probably be great somewhere. He's wonderful. Pretty consistently great in everything he does. He must have a big movie coming out this year. I hope so. He didn't have one this past year. Okay, so we'll go through our greens very quickly here. The greens are To Die For, Eyes Wide Shut, Moulin Rouge, The Others, Birth, Margot with the Wedding, and Big Little Lies. That gives us two, four, six, seven greens. We have several yellows. I'll read them to you right now. Dead Calm, Days of Thunder, Malice, Practical Magic, The Hours, Dogville, Rabbit Hole, The Paperboy, Paddington, The Killing of a Sacred Deer, Destroyer, The Northman, and Baby Girl.

1:56:23I'll just say. Wait, how many do we have? Sorry, I was thinking about Alexander Skarsgård. Oh, my God. 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 13 yellows, which might be the world record for yellows. One, two, three, four, seven. Okay. We've got 20 films, 19 films in one television series. I'll just, let me just say this. I think that Practical Magic and Dead Calm basically need to go in. I think we were being delicate by not putting them in. Okay. But I think they're movies that people love, that she is acclaimed for, that are two totally different types of parts. I think also you get this sick period from 1998 through 2004 where she's just awesome in movies.

1:57:02She's just great in everything she does. That's fine, except practical magic people, I see you. You're going to cut it out. I love you. Well, why can't we do— So you're going to have the practical magic people coming for you, the Moulin Rouge people coming for me in the same episode. But we put Moulin Rouge in. Yeah, well, of course. I acknowledge it's power. Why can't we do something for us? Why can't this be our list? You just got Big Little Lys in. I know, but why can't we do Destroyer? Why can't we do Baby Girl? If we put in Dead Come and Practical Magic, we still have one other spot. What if I want Destroyer and Baby Girl?

1:57:33Women really can't have it all. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. But like, you're with me. Why don't you do what you want to do right now? You're with me on Destroyer over Practical Magic. I like Destroyer more than Practical Magic, of course. Well, then why don't we just do Practical Magic, Destroyer, and Baby Girl? What about Dead Come? Dead Come is good, but whatever. I would rather watch Dead Come than Baby Girl again. Well, that is your patriarchy and decentralized sex work, okay? So that's on you. I've seen Baby Girl twice. I've probably seen Dead Calm twice. You know? Listen, it's fine. Sam Neill's just like on a boat for a while.

1:58:07Let me pitch an idea to you. Yeah. Should we hold a listener vote? No, absolutely not. Or a final spot in the halls of fame in the future? Where we give them the remaining yellows and they vote. Do we have to? Well, listen, we all know that you're a demagogue dictator. Okay, I just, no, listen. It's, you know, women have been waiting this whole time and now we can have it all. So now I get to. What if only women can vote? You know, we'll do like a little reverse. So, but okay. So then what would be the last spot? If you wanted to do, I don't think Baby Girl should go in. I really like Baby Girl.

1:58:45But I really like a lot of these movies that aren't going in. Paperboy's not going in. Killing of a Sacred Deer. That's a movie I really like. Rabbit Hole, that's a movie I really like. Dogville. Okay. You know? I think if you were building a Hall of Fame as an objective member of cultural restitution, the hours would go in. I don't want to put it in. I'm not making you put it in. Okay. We're working together. This is a team. This show is a team effort. I know. And you left me hanging on AMC. And teamwork would be destroyed. We both really like that movie. It's cool that you did it. You're a corporate stooge.

1:59:17I'm not allowing that. I can't allow you to sell yourself in that way. Especially not with the themes of baby girl. I just understand the zeitgeist, you know? I've got my finger on the pulse. Yeah, for a three-year-old meme. I do think we should, like, really bring back old memes. There was another meme that we were just discussing from, like, 2017 that was really good. You're momming a little bit here, just so you know. Sorry. You should bring back old memes. I have respect for history. Okay? It's my Roman Empire. You can make three picks right now. Okay. I'll let you do whatever you want. Honestly, you could.

1:59:56That's not fun. You're in charge. Okay. You know, all right. You're the boss. You're the baby girl.

2:00:06So, dead calm, practical magic, and baby girl. Sold. Okay. Got that, Bobby? I do. So, all that and Destroyer is not even going in. Yeah, because. What do you think if we put these other 10 things up for the public and they can have the 11th spot. No. Why are you fighting? Why are you trying to involve? This is our time. We just had it. Okay. All right, sure. They can vote for the 11th spot. Like, no matter what happens, we had our time. The practical magic is in. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So wait, you want to give the listeners the participation trophy spot? Yeah. It wouldn't be that. It would be an alternative opinion.

2:00:41I'm, I'm, what I'm doing is I'm opening my ears to the world. I think. They can make their own lists. Well, they certainly will. Yeah. And that's cool. And I support them on their own time. You know? You do not believe in democracy. You believe that this fascist direction that world politics has taken is healthy and just. It's good to know. This is, we carved out our space. This is our table. It's true. This is our table. Okay, great. Let's go to my conversation now with Helena Rain.

2:01:19Thank you.

2:01:48So happy to be back with Helena Rain. No, so yeah, Bodies, Bodies, Bodies came out and I think it was even before that when I was editing still that I was of course kind of like, okay, what's next? Yeah, yeah. I was considering different things that were sent to me but my sisters who kind of are my coaches, if you will, or the good witches over in the Netherlands who helped me to sort of navigate all the things that are new to me always said, you should write something yourself and I wrote Instinct together with another woman. when I wrote Red Light, a TV show on sex work that I did in the Netherlands with a team of other people.

2:02:23So I never wrote anything alone. And Bodies, of course, was not my original script. And then Sarah Delep and I rewrote it together, but very different than writing something by herself. But A24, as they are, are very supportive. And they were like, oh, you should write in English because they found me working on Bodies proved to them that I could do it and that I had a fast pen and they thought I was funny in my writing. And then I always just had this idea to create something about the complicated relationship that I have with myself. The question, can you love yourself completely? Or, you know, not just the parts of yourself that you like to show to the outside world, but also the things that you are embarrassed about.

2:03:03And that's kind of deeper question and led me to think, oh, maybe I can make a sexual thriller, but maybe mine is more sexual comedy, I think, if we look at it close. I want to ask you about that. Yeah, yeah. And so I thought, maybe I can do that and make a fun, sort of big, seductive movie with that hidden message of that question of self-love. So that was kind of like my starting point. When I saw you introduce the movie, it was at CAA, and you seemed very nervous. You seemed very open, but you were like, this is extremely personal. Yes. And obviously, I assume everything that you work on is extremely personal.

2:03:40You wouldn't do it if it wasn't. But why specifically was this so personal? I think like I'm happy that you say that that like on one hand you could give me the phone book right now and I could perform that for you in a very personal way but I do think that this why this scares me so much and even because you know we're still doing screenings and the premiere is coming up and I still am nervous it's because it's so the topic is of course shame in a way because I wanted to create you know something about my hidden the hidden parts of my personality and my hidden thoughts and feelings and so it's all on the screen and that is just scary to sort of share with others and even though everybody keeps saying Nicole Kidman who stars in my film is so courageous and the movie is so courageous and it is but that makes it also still it's not like we're like oh yeah of course we're doing this like ha ha ha we're doing it and thinking oh my god what have we done and is this really something I want to share with other people or should I just have like kept quiet about it and should you just not talk about these things because there is in me a warrior that's like we need to talk about the orgasm gap and then there's in me a woman who goes oh please please stop you know just like i feel like that exists inside the nicole character they sort of like this bifurcated shame but desire to be clearly expressing yourself but also you know it's it is very very funny and it's not clear necessarily how early on can i laugh at this am i allowed to laugh at this especially like can a man laugh at this movie is that okay yeah do we feel safe doing that so when you were writing did you have a clear sense that you wanted it to be not joke laden but that like bursting the bubble of anxiety that comes with topics like this while also making a very propulsive thriller maybe talk about like blending those two things yes definitely i said really set out after bodies i discovered humor and i was like this is amazing and of course as an actress i've always really loved humor as a weapon in all the the mainly i did mainly stage work but also in my movies i I love being a comedic actress.

2:05:44So when I started to write this, especially because I think that human nature is incredibly tragic, but also incredibly funny to me. Like human behavior is just so, we constantly contradict ourselves and we're constantly conflicted. And so I thought, I just want to add that layer, that tone that with bodies, of course, we also really had to search for that. It's very complicated to make a movie that has tension, you know, where you actually are a little bit afraid, but at the same time you're laughing. That's the same with sexuality. Because sexuality, we don't necessarily think about humor because it's kind of like humor is always a relief.

2:06:18Sexuality builds up to something. And so it's hard to do. But for me, everybody can start laughing. Not, of course, the very beginning because that's pretty intense. But once they have that kind of like cookie scene, there's a scene in the beginning of the movie where she asks him how he got a dog to calm down on the streets. And he just says, I gave it a cookie. and then he offers her one. And I think that to me is kind of the beginning of the game is where they sort of set the rules of the sexual game, if you will. And then the humor also starts for me. It must be so exciting in my screening.

2:06:53That's when everyone started laughing was the do you want one scene with the cookie. It must be exciting to watch, to recognize that people maybe have the same sensibility that you do too. Or like, what is that like when you're writing something and you're like, I hope that this is going to connect the way that I see it or the way that I understand this idea. Yeah, no, that's, it's most of all a relief because of course we all think or at least I think constantly that I'm an alien and that I'm an imposter and that I don't belong on this planet and that's and then of course humor is such a specific thing so then to watch a lot of people laugh at a joke that you wrote or make but I also really have to give credit to the actors because of course Harris Dickinson is who plays the young lover Nicole Kidman's intern in the movie he's an amazing actor and he has really, he's a comedian.

2:07:40So he can really do that in a way that is very subtle because the humor in Baby Girl is not like in your face, but it is constantly present. Because I also think that if you want to tell a story with a little bit of irony and you bring awareness to what is sexuality really and what is a sob-dumb relationship, because that is something, of course, that we are exploring in this movie. I just think that it is very funny. If you bring it in a realistic way, Not if you kind of paint this glamorous old Hollywood picture of it, because then it's just something that we might aspire to, that we dream of, or an escapism.

2:08:14But I wanted to create something that would feel completely human at all levels. We were talking about Verhoeven before we started, and you have acted for him in a film. And, you know, that is a very distinctly Verhoeven idea, too. that sort of like the intense tension and action in some cases blended with this absurdist sense of humor that like kind of pierces the bubble of the tension really well. Like, did you pick something up while working with him? Like, how is that an influence on you? Well, I do think that we are very similar. Maybe it's also a little bit of a Dutch thing that, you know, we're very much earthy people, you know, we're very grounded people.

2:08:49And from that, almost like a little bit like farmers, you know. and from that comes a lot of humor I think the Dutch have a lot of cynical ironic humor and and so maybe that is a little similar yeah and I and I just think again that if you want to go into these really dark areas of yourself and of humans in general you also got to seduce the audience a little bit to come with you and and and why is humor such a weapon for that such a Trojan horse if you will because it just connects us because if we can laugh at something even in very tragic circumstances it just feels like you're together and so that's and sexuality is such a charged subject for everyone there's so many things that we still are afraid to talk about or you know and that we're very feel very alone in and so there's a lot of humor when you bring it in a vulnerable human way I think and then you sort of feel that the audience like you say they are maybe a little bit uncomfortable and then and then they are so relieved and they can laugh.

2:09:52Did you write it with actors in mind? No. I write very much, I just play all the parts. You know, I did that with bodies too. I sort of like, I write a scene first, I write it out and then after, so first I have a treatment and all of the technical things where you sort of like lay the land and you really structure everything because like the character Romy, I come from chaos so I love structure and organization. And then within that, I can be free in my little house where nobody can see me. And I can act out all the parts to sort of feel if the rhythm adds up, if it's like music, if it really...

2:10:27And also to see if it's sort of possible even to do what I'm creating on the page. And so I don't write with people in mind. And Nicole came into my life after Instinct. She already contacted me and I worked on something for her company. and it was really, really great because it gave me a lot of confidence to write in English. But then after Bodies, I was just so inspired by making a movie in America and I felt what I really love about America is that I feel when I'm here that there's no boundaries in how I think about my creativity. Whereas in Europe, I feel always that you're kind of weighed down by the beautiful but very huge history that we have there.

2:11:10That's so interesting. I mean, you would think that the opposite would be true for so many people because there's this understanding of European film history, that there is something kind of unbound about it, whereas in America, it's very commercial. But you don't feel that. No, I feel, so I understand that, of course, that archetype of how we think of both the continents and how creativity is there. But no, for me, I think it's a very interesting paradox. I think here, because, of course, listen, we could talk for hours about all the things that are wrong in Europe and all the things that are wrong in America, of course, but to keep it positive, for me, what I found here is that when I think for instance let's say I'm thinking about making a big scale movie in New York that's super sensual then in the Netherlands I would think like but shooting in New York would never be possible it's too expensive you know that's very much the European mentality of be normal that's funny enough like don't think you're all dead and that's because we have behind us these enormous amounts of history and culture and you know we kind of like look up and we're like oh my god and here there's this almost, I don't want to say that in an offensive way, but a childlike mind that I have when I'm here, and I can just dream big.

2:12:21If I would tell you now, hey, I'm starting an ice cream shop in New York. What do you think about it? A lot of American people in my life would say, great, you know, great. And in the Netherlands, it was an ice cream shop. Are you insane? So here, everybody's very enthusiastic. And I think that, I don't know where that comes from, But I feel for me, because my ideas are quite dark and strange, it is amazing when A24 goes, oh, great. Yeah, yeah. Walk further into that dark forest. Is it, I say this with admiration. Is it possible that you don't realize that you have a certain kind of personality that invites that welcomingness to the idea in this country?

2:13:02Because I don't, that's not how I see America at all. No? You just described, no. you don't think that people here are at least when it comes to entrepreneurship or wanting to build something are very and are like that's amazing you should try that whereas in europe they're like what maybe you're right i don't know i candidly just have not spent enough time in europe to be able to answer that specifically but in america i don't know i think that there is maybe like a forward-facing positivity that underneath the surface is skeptical but you know what the fact that that emboldens you to be creative is is fascinating to me.

2:13:32Nicole also not American. No. My whole cast is not American. I did not realize that at all until later. Antonio Banderas is of course not American. Harris is not. Harris is from the UK and Sophie Wilde is from Australia. Oh my goodness. So that's kind of strange. I do think the Australians share the same kind of like earthiness that the Dutch have and that humor that very much like self-deprecating elements. And that is what look Americans and again we're completely generalizing but we're having fun with it Americans can be emotional and enthusiastic without any reservation that is in Europe that's unthinkable it's unthinkable you could never say oh my god this is such a beautiful moment you know you could never say that people would literally be like what are you doing and so and there's something in that for me personally that because I really changed my whole life later in life you know I just thought after all these years I'm going to be a director now and not an actress anymore.

2:14:32That was, in my country, was really looked upon as what? Like we have this saying, it's like shoemaker, stay with your profession. So if you're a shoemaker, you're a shoe repairman and you're never changing. And here I feel like you can reinvent yourself. But of course there's other downsides to that here, right? I mean, there's no safety net. If you don't succeed next week, you live in your car. So in that sense, I find it a super scary place. I can feel that in the movie though, because in the movie you've written this character to be a very powerful person, a very forward-facing person who has to perform all the time, but who is in a position of decision-making power and is concerned about perception about all things.

2:15:16You could say this feels very much like an actress or it feels very much like a director or maybe an actress who was a director. How much did you think about putting yourself into it and also just why a CEO in general for the character? Yeah, well, because I wanted to make a comedy of manners about power and sex and control. And I wanted to be in conversation with the past. I wanted to be in conversation with all the sexual thrillers that I so loved in the 90s and the early 2000s. But that I also thought were incredibly sexist and not human. And so I wanted to show, you know, I wanted to purposefully and playfully show like, listen, I'm playing with all these tropes.

2:15:50And I'm playing with your expectations as an audience that we're going in a certain direction. and then whoop, we're going totally into another direction where every character is ambiguous and there's no villains and angels like there is in Fatal Attraction. So I really wanted to create my own path in that sense. And yes, I am very much of the school of write what you know, but on the other hand, I'm not a mother. I'm not a CEO of a robotics company, unfortunately, because I would love to be. And, you know, so I'm a lot of things I'm not that are taking place in a movie. But yes, I bring my own pain, my own jokes, my own experiences and the ones of people around me.

2:16:26A lot of people in the Netherlands when we had a premiere there the other day. And a lot of my friends and family, they recognize pieces and they all feel luckily honored. They are not angry at me. And when the stories are extreme, I ask for permission, of course. But it's kind of like, yeah, I kind of like use all these things and put them in the story. But the story is very archetypical. It's really a story that we've seen before when it starts about power and submission. But we swap genders, of course, continuously. And we swap everything so that you don't know anymore. Because the intern, Samuel, played by Harris, has just as much power over her in a way because he can cancel her every minute of the day.

2:17:07But on paper, she, of course, has the power. And why did I want to do that? Because I think still as women, we still are searching for our place in the world. And I thought it would be incredibly interesting to see a woman that has everything. You know, when you look at her and you think, oh my God, she has a beautiful family. she's a beautiful woman, she has a wonderful marriage, and then she has a beautiful job, but yet she's unhappy and slowly an animal's waking up inside her. And she's kind of in a midlife crisis, and she cannot keep that animal asleep anymore. And that's kind of exciting to watch.

2:17:38Well, related to that, the choice that you make to have the characters, to have the audience see the decisions that the character makes to attempt to maintain a certain standard of beauty is I think one of the things that people are saying is really bold of Nicole's performance, that she is willing to show injections in her face or the way that she treats her body and tries to stay in shape, you know, as she gets a little bit older in life. Was that always a part of the story? You know, how much of that was conversations with Nicole? Like, how do you develop those? Because it's asking a lot of an actor, a very famous person to reveal themselves in the way that she does in the movie.

2:18:17So I'm just kind of curious how you kind of broker that creativity. I wrote that all before I ever thought of her in the part. And after that, after I worked on her project, and I said, sorry, I'm going to isolate myself. I have this idea, and I want to completely focus on that. And she was, of course, incredibly supportive. But she always stayed in touch with me. And then she asked, like, what is it? And I said, it's called Baby Girl. And she immediately got obsessed, because apparently her husband has a tattoo of Baby Girl in his neck, and he calls her Baby Girl. So she was just intrigued by that.

2:18:48and then she read a very early draft and it was already in there exactly like it is in a movie. And why I put that in a movie is because, I will speak for myself, but I feel in this time there's this tendency to want to be perfect, to think that we can control everything. So we think that if I do enough ice baths or go to the gym enough and do enough therapy, I can get rid of all the blemishes on my soul and on my skin, you know, and I can become this perfect being and then I will be happy and then everybody will love me but mostly then I will love myself. and I think I mean walking around in LA it's an epidemic of that anxiety it's crazy but I mean I think it's a worldwide phenomenon it's always been in humans right I mean even before Christ like we have proof of that people always trying to live longer trying to look different and so I just wanted to show that that struggle and that but what I am very much interested in of course she does the Botox and I understand that's shocking to look at but she's also doing this EMDR therapy where she thinks well if I do enough therapy I will be able to get rid of the darkness and that is of course a misunderstanding and I'm also talking to myself here I think it's way better to look at your darkness and accept your darkness and be in touch with your darkness because then it's manageable but if you start to suppress it or you think I can get rid of it then it can become risky and dangerous it's really impressive what you kind of force us to look at you know it's almost like because you can't look at yourself in the mirror when you're doing these things When you go to therapy, you're not looking in the mirror at yourself.

2:20:19When you are doing something to enhance your quote-unquote beauty, you don't see it. So you're almost like confronting us with the things that we think are solutions, which are usually not. This is why I don't do anything. This is why I don't go to therapy. You look great. I just know. He looks great. I was not fishing for that, I promise you. No one is watching this and thinking, Sean looks great. Yes, they are. That's such bullshit. But that exactly confirms my point. We all have this self-hate, you know. Yeah. But it is, but of course, I'm also with my movie, I'm not saying I am above that at all.

2:20:51Like, I agree with you. We have no awareness often that's so interesting about living. Even if you can, if we now have this conversation and it's like, oh, we know it. We look at it and we see it's so sharp. And then I walk out of that door and I, you know, I could, if someone would say, hey, you look tired. I could be like, oh, maybe I should get a little Botox. You know, and I don't even think about it. And I'm in the chair and I'm getting it and I feel better after this. So we constantly, we just don't bring awareness to certain parts of ourselves. And that's just fascinating. It is, it is.

2:21:21And this movie is, I mean, most and foremost, or how do you say that in English? First and foremost. First, not most and foremost. First and foremost. I hope that it's a fun, sexy, hot fairy tale. But underneath it, I am trying to say this woman, she's, you know, in sort of the second half of her life. She sees death on the horizon like we all do after, let's say, 50, 45. I'm 49, by the way. In case anyone wants to date me because I'm single. And she sees the avalanche coming, as she says. And so she is kind of like, what is life about? What am I doing? And on those crisis moments that we always think are so painful and we don't want them, they are opportunities, of course, to bring an insane amount of awareness to what we're actually doing.

2:22:09But what she then does, instead of like talking to her husband and really meditating on like, okay, so where do I want to go? She doesn't do any of that. No, she falls in love with this young guy. So I want to talk about that. How do you forge a dynamic between Harris and Nicole that makes us believe it? Obviously, there's the age gap, which is an important part of the conversation of it. But even just between the two actors, if we don't buy them, the movie doesn't work. Yeah. No, that's very true. I do think it's casting is a large part of that. And then also writing to, not to be arrogant, but I do think you need very good writing and you need to really, what I always say is with anything that you create, whether it's a painting or an essay or whatever you're doing, like it's really good to have it sort of be judged by others, to have it be almost like killed by others so that it gets better and better and you're sharpening it and sharpening it and to read it out loud with a friend and send it to your friends and people you trust.

2:23:07so good writing and then casting is everything and I think with them you can't like in the Netherlands I could say hey let's do a chemistry reading but with these kind of level of stars of course you kind of have to cast them and then just trust you know if they say yes then okay great yeah and then have you ever seen that happen in your career with two people who are meant to be in love in a film and you're just like oh no they've got no energy I mean I've experienced it myself a lot where you know I've done so many theater shows and films in my country and I've experienced but it's very interesting because sometimes you can feel absolutely no chemistry with your co-star or however you call them and then the audience will feel it everything so it's not always the experience that the actors have that is truthful and with movies I mean of course with the camera you can trick so much so it's not always that it has to be totally real but in this case it's all it's such a complicated casting because you have Nicole Kidman, which is maybe one of the biggest actors on the planet.

2:24:09And then you want a very young man to be able to not only stand his ground as an actor, but also to dominate her in these scenes. And while she's challenging him not to dominate her. So you just need to find somebody very special. And after Nicole said she wanted to do the film, then immediately both of us were like, okay, who's going to be Samuel? and then that week that we really started the process to speak about it I accidentally just really I didn't even think about it went to see the premiere of Triangle of Sadness in New York and I immediately thought who is this creature? Who is this? This guy is so strange and very funny but very weird and then I went home and I immediately watched Beach Rats He's amazing in that movie Amazing and also I love that movie It's a great film I had never seen it and so it was such a delight And then I saw all of his other work and I got obsessed and I got really scared because once you know you want something and then I really thought we need to have him because he's not only just an insanely talented young man, but he has a vulnerability and a very unique masculinity that you don't see often with male actors.

2:25:24I gotta get him you know and so I remember that I was so nervous so nervous to had a zoom with him and he was a little bit like I don't know like he was not at all like you know where he was like oh yes I wanted he was kind of looking at me asking me questions which only made me more certain was he trying to suss you out to try to figure out what your intentions were yeah because I do think that of course people who will see the movie will see it is risky material it is a very there's not a lot of actual sex acts in the movie at all but the sexuality is dark you know and I want to ask you about his character in particular because there's an aspect of him that is incredibly knowable and then there's a huge part of him that is not that is very much like a cipher and we see these like maybe a glimmer or two of his past or his personal history but there's no big psychological exploration of him or his feelings why frame it that way?

2:26:20Because for me, again, I'm in conversation with everything that I experienced being an actress and all the beautiful stories I was part of myself in the classical theater, but also all the amazing stories that I looked at. But in all those stories and all the characters that I had to play, like Ophelia or something, I always felt that I was a mystery. I always had to be this mystery that a man created. And I wanted to reverse that. I love that. And so I did that on purpose. And so for me, it is, he might be a fantasy. Maybe he's not even there. But I did want to give him a lot of humanity, of course, because you do have to really enjoy the whole rollercoaster ride that you're going on when you come to see the film.

2:27:03So me and Harris talked a lot about that. And there are scenes, you know, when he asks her, this is not giving anything away, I hope the studio won't kill me, but when he asks her to hold him and all those moments are very human. and he shows his full range. But yes, he doesn't really have a backstory. Yeah, no details, just that there's something a little broken. A little broken and you feel that, yeah, and he's looking for love and he's very much exploring his masculinity. And that is something I really didn't want to, I want to create a very feminist movie in the sense that I want to, you know, the female lead and I want it all to be about female desire and the orgasm gap and all of that.

2:27:41I also really wanted to include masculinity in that discussion and how are men supposed to behave? And two men of two very different generations, Antonio Banderas and Harris, are both kind of like at loss points in this movie. Like, what is expected of me? What can I do? What can I not do? I'm sorry, but I don't understand. Very relatable bit of male dynamic that you've created, honestly. I think a lot of men are going to get it in a way that you don't often see it portrayed. So well done on that one. I hope, and also for Nicole, that was incredibly important, and for Sophie, that we really felt like the four of them, that everybody in every sense gets a say and gets space, like the men and the women, in this kind of exploration of what is sex and power.

2:28:30So there's, it's interesting because Bodies, Bodies, Bodies sort of gets at this, but not really. But there's a sense that a younger generation, maybe younger than you and I, has some anxiety, particularly about sex in movies, that the portrayal of the sex act in movies is something we may not need. I don't actually know how much of that is real or not, but it's often discussed. Yeah, very often. And your film, as you said, doesn't feature a ton of portraits of it, but there's one very strong, almost abstracted version of it at the beginning of the film. and it's clearly on the minds of the characters throughout the entire film.

2:29:02So... No, it's a very sexual film without ever really... There's like snippets of sexual sex but there's never a lingering on it. It's not about that. Yeah, why not portray it that way? Because I totally identify weirdly with that generation. That particular study or whatever it was came out when we were already done shooting but I'm very... I very much relate because when I was shooting bodies there was already also a lot of articles about how that generation might not be interested in the act of sex. Now it's about how they don't want to see it on a screen. But for me I'm a little bit dissimilar.

2:29:43I'm even nobody will believe this but I am a prude. I come from chaos. I come from radical hippies where everything was completely like there were no boundaries. So for me it's very scary if it's too much too much in my face. So the milk scene for instance where Harris Dickinson orders a glass of milk for Romy who sits at a totally different space in the bar and she drinks the whole thing and then he walks past her and he says good girl for me that's the most sexual scene that is so sexual but nothing happens they don't touch they're very far apart and so I always love when it's a suggestion and I think for a lot of people sexuality is a story it's a mind game and that is a turn on and I don't say it's not shocking because I understand to see, you know, a grown woman in a corner of a hotel room stand, you know, or crawling around or eating candy out of someone's hand.

2:30:36I understand that that can be shocking and sexy, but I don't like just two bodies just moving up. I don't want to see that. So I, in that sense, I totally understand that generation. And my movie, apart from being about sexuality and power, is also very much a movie about two generations. Very much. Like that is maybe even more important to me than anything else and it's kind of like looking with humor and playfulness but at my generation and a little bit above me how we think how feminine how we think what we think feminism is and then these younger people that walk in and are like excuse me what are you doing yeah and i love that and i love how uh the female cao gets kind of like a lesson in that she should be more vulnerable and that she should be more open to you know and not think in like this old-fashioned form of hierarchy so we're just discussing power throughout all these sub themes and and different generations is definitely a topic and i have a lot of hope for younger generations to have different attitudes towards sex identity they're more fluid they are more kink positive they're more body positive so i'm kind of inspired just a couple more things for you i'm very curious about uh the big needle drops which there are not very many but they're very impactful.

2:31:53And I feel like I could feel when I was at the screening, everybody was like, ah, this is so the right song for this moment. So maybe you could talk about how you chose a couple of those. Yeah. So again, we stay with the generation topic because there's Nicole Kidman's world, so to say, and then there's the young people's world in the music and how we handled the music. And so even before I started writing, I knew Father Figure because Father Figure has become my anthem of my life. I lost my father when I was very young. So I was kind of frozen in time. I was 10 years old. And when you're 10, you think your father is Superman and the strongest man in the world.

2:32:29So I always had a bit of a daddy complex. So when George Michael released that song, I remember, oh my God, I just felt so seen by it. Anyway, so there was always a song that would be on my playlist. And then when I started to think about this sexual story and how I had a powerful woman falls in love with her male intern who's dominating her sexually, I thought, oh my God, father figure has all these elements. And if you play that under a scene where this younger man acts fatherly over this older woman that has all the power, that could be so interesting. And then, of course, Nicole is as much his daddy, you know, as he's her daddy.

2:33:05And so I called the head of film, Noah Seco, even before I started writing. And I said, hey, it's Aline, I need that song, Father Figure. I need the rights. And he was like, what are you talking about? and I still didn't really know how that all works in Hollywood and how expensive it was. Not cheap, yeah. So he's like, well, maybe first start to write the movie and then see if we're going to make it. But once I showed it to him and it was in and they said, yeah, we have to get it. And so we were lucky enough to get the rights. And then the In Excess song that we're playing at another moment is of course also really a song from her generation.

2:33:41And then when they go to the rave, there's a huge rave scene which is kind of like the orgasm of the movie, if you will, the climax, then that is all his world. And that I had that rave composed, or do you call that composed, created by my friends of Yellow Claw. These are Dutch DJs that are also filmmakers and that are very popular also in America. And so I thought that would be very appropriate. And we played that song during the night that we were shooting it. And Nicole, who can never go to raves anymore and loves raves, just kept dancing. You couldn't drag her off the dance floor. in between takes and it became this thing where these other these background actors of course they felt that and it was an incredible it was just incredible I love it the music works so well it's really a great choice Helena we gotta let you go we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers we've just started no we've been going for a long time that's how much fun you've been having I do I have fun we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what's the last great thing that they have seen have you been able to watch any movies while you've been promoting oh god let me think could be new or old oh yes I know I am obsessed with The Brutalist yes me as well yes it's my favorite movie of the year no disrespect to your film which I also loved no of course and so I had to go to a screening of it at the New York Film Festival you know Guy yes yes Guy is with my best friend Carice yes so I know him and I know Brady and Mona also who wrote and of course directed it but they told me okay you know and I was invited I had to go but I really honestly if I'm honest with you I wasn't looking forward to it I was like it's so long there's an intermission I'm I have ADHD how am I going to get through it and I loved every single second of it I never thought about the time it was just an emotional journey it was amazing it looks amazing it really says things about our time even though it takes place in the past it's beautifully elegantly written it's insanely well acted I can't be I'm so proud of both of them and and of the writing Mona and him together they did such an amazing job and they're a couple which is so amazing and they always they are like a group they always create so much joy around them when I arrived in New York I was so lonely and I was on stage with Jude Law who of course worked with them as well and he introduced me to them and he said you should meet them because they will give you a feeling of warmth they have they have a lot of friends and they were and they were from that moment on my life in New York really changed.

2:36:12And then seeing them having created this movie, I'm like, this is one of the best things I've ever seen. So, yes. It's an amazing recommendation. Congratulations on Baby Girl. Thank you. And thank you for being here. Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun.

2:36:32Thanks to Jack Sanders. Thanks to our producer, Bobby Wagner, for his work on today's episode. Later this week, we are sharing our most anticipated movies of 2025. Are you excited? I am. Can we do our in and out lists? Yes, we can. Okay, great. But is it only movie focused or is it for everything in your life? No, no, movie focused. Okay, so like what is in on trend and what is out on trend or what you want to be in on trend and what you want to be out on trend? Setting my intentions. Okay, got it. All right, very cool. Thanks, Amanda. We'll see you later this week.