The Ridley Scott Movie Rankings and ‘The Dog Stars’

20:18I know, that was very, very exciting. And I talked to a couple people on the way out who were there for the first time. And they were just like, hey, that ruled! Yeah, yeah.

20:26Sean Fennessey:Really good pick! Pretty exciting. So I was pleased about that. Yeah, you think these things that we talk about all the time that we feel like are endemic to the shows that we've been making for a really long time are universally understood. But you know what? That's like what you were talking about with Matt Johnson, where it was just like these people under 25 that are essentially driving the survival and revival of movie houses. Yeah. They haven't necessarily up on all the Bourne movies. Of course not. Yeah. And where should they go next after Identity? I think the ultimatum. Or no, I mean, sorry, supremacy.

20:55Okay, just because that's number two. Well, it's also like very key to the first film.

21:01Sean Fennessey:I thought you were going to say your sexual awakening, given Joan Allen's performance. Yes, that's right. Okay. Okay. Let's talk about Ridley Scott and the Dog Stars. It sounds like an Australian pub band. So this movie is based on a novel written by Peter Heller. The screenplay is adapted by Mark L. Smith, a very seasoned screenwriter. Some notable heads of department coming in on this one that I cited to Chris last night, Amanda, that no Darius Walski shooting this movie, two in a row now, not working with Ridley Scott after working on many, many movies with Ridley over the years. David Fincher alum Eric Messerschmidt the Academy Award winning DP is on this Walski shot Resident Evil which maybe explains why he isn't on this movie this movie stars Jacob Elordi Margaret Qualley Benedict Wong Guy Pearce Allison Janney set after a devastating flu pandemic and Josh Brolin and Josh Brolin we'll get to him don't worry I just wanted to give him his credit yeah we'll get there I promise you set after a devastating flu pandemic that has almost eradicated humanity the film centers on Hague a former civilian pilot, and Bangley, a hardened former Marine, as they confront outside threats and hold on to the possibility of a better life beyond where they currently live, which is in Colorado.

22:13Yes.

22:14Sean Fennessey:Amanda, what did you think of the Dog Stars? I mean, Yowza, is what I think of it. It is many movies in one, which is not a compliment, but some of those movies are, if not interesting than at least soothing. I did think to myself about 30 minutes into this film, okay, so this is just a movie about Jacob Elordi feeding his dog for two hours, which I'm not into. And I think that Jacob Elordi is the right height to do that and to wear all the immaculate... So short guys can't feed their dogs either? Tough one for you. I'm good. I just don't understand. Don't ever get a dog. I can't reach. I don't know.

23:07Sean Fennessey:Is that even true? He's got to bend down a lot. But, you know, he's limber. That's good. Mobility is an important part of health and longevity. So he's working on it now. Thank you. You're like the Dr. Becky for Pilates moms. I don't know whether that's really nice or the meanest thing we've ever seen. I think it means you've achieved your final four. Thank you so much. Yeah, he looks great in the Carhartt. There's an immaculate suede jacket that shows up at some point. I have a lot I want to talk to you about. And then I guess the plot starts. It's like, what's happening here? And it doesn't seem like anyone involved really has any of the pacing or the narrative beats laid down.

23:55it didn't look as bad as it could have you know there are parts of it that I think look beautiful it was shot in Italy

24:04Sean Fennessey:devastatingly to me well I did say to him I was like you know what this is the first time that Colorado's ever looked appealing to me spoiler alert it was Italy I was talking to Chris yesterday and I was like well you know what I liked being in Colorado for two hours that was nice and he was like sorry bud that was shot in Italy they seemed to have a delightful experience there and they also shot a chinchetta usually after we see a screening that I know that we'll be talking about days later, I'll try to leave myself a voice memo as I drive home, usually from Westfield. And it's a long-ish drive.

24:36And so sometimes I can get lost in thought. This one I only had one sentence. Zach Bryan's Cormac McCarthy's The Road. I think I actually summed it up quite well. I agree with a lot of what Amanda said. However, it's been weird to see the Rotten Tomatoes score and the critical rejection of this movie. Yes. Because I'm like, it was bad, but it didn't suck. If that makes sense. I pretty much agree with that. Yes. It's not...

25:06Sean Fennessey:It's unsuccessful. But it's not incompetent. Right. Yeah. Yes. And there are two times where you're like, why are you doing this? And I would have not done it, but the answer is pretty clear is that it's based on a novel. And so this is part of the plot and that they just, they made the - There is one particular sequence, which is the most audacious thing in the movie that is not in the novel. Okay. And that choice, I would say, dramatically shifted my opinion of the movie because I was having what, it was sort of the way you were describing watching a Lordy do a lot of those things sounded like ASMR, like visual ASMR.

25:43Sean Fennessey:And this movie has a kind of like, I just love this terrain and I want to spend as much time as I can, as I can exploring it with aerial photography. There's some beautiful aerial photography. There's a lot of kind of quiet, contemplative moments with this sort of like sad, beautiful man who's lost his wife. Right. And is figuring out how to live in this post-apocalyptic environment. It's narratively like dead on arrival. Like the movie has no energy or pace whatsoever. But it does look good and you've got very handsome actors. You've got this kind of like men's influencer energy of guys ripping tree stumps out of the ground and using cross saws together.

26:18Sean Fennessey:and it does have something going on. It has like the most expensive like outdoorsman YouTube video ever made of like, God, it's really pleasant watching him just like work on an old plane. Or it's like, or fly the old plane or fish. It's like MAGA Terrence Malick or something. Like there's just like something, like it's not, and so it looks kind of good and you feel like you're watching a Hollywood movie but as soon as you said that the plot engine starts grinding, it's like, You can feel like I've seen at least 10 post-apocalyptic thrillers that are way more interesting than this. It's the inversion of what a lot of those post-apocalyptic thrillers do, which is typically spend a lot of time explaining the factions that are out there.

27:02And, you know, like, oh, the Reapers are going to come for you or whatever. And this is kind of like, that's all brushed aside. Like, there are awareness or understanding. The main two characters are Alordi, who plays a guy named Hig, and Josh Brolin, who plays a guy named Bangley. Yeah. And they have like basically created a fortress at an airfield in Erie, Colorado. And they are like somewhat aware that there are bad guys out there who are kind of trying to come for their patch.

27:31Sean Fennessey:And it's sort of suggested in the movie before we see them that there might be like some zombie potential here. But they're really more just like kind of crazed survivors. Yeah, it takes place in 2035, I think, right? I think that's right. so. Well, that's, yes. And so it's 10 years. I don't know when the apocalypse is supposed to have occurred, but I don't know. They've been doing this for a minute. And it's a pandemic era novel as well, right? I believe so. Yeah. No, I think it's pre-date that. It's 2012. Oh, okay. And so there's like an awareness of these people, but there's not, it doesn't get like bogged down in like the ideology and or state of the people who are coming for them.

28:12I will say I randomly happened to watch one of those mega trailers where they like cut together all the ads and different trailers and I was struck by several things that are in the trailers that are not in the movie including much more zombified looking figures so I don't know if that was in and out Once we get into spoilers I have a follow-up question about that because it did feel there were some sort of visual feints or like clues in the movie that were never followed up on and it did feel like things were chopped up or that things just kind of didn't gel together. I mean, it is also a Ridley Scott movie, so we know that there's four hours of footage somewhere that Chris is going to do a director's commentary for.

28:57We could talk about his technical approach to making films and how that's impacted how these stories are told at some point.

29:04Sean Fennessey:Yeah, it just seems like he shoots a lot of footage with long scripts. And if he has an idea, he explores that idea really deeply and then they kind of figure it out in post. And that was clearly true in Napoleon. It was clearly true in Gladiator 2. A lot of the recent movies. He's shooting with 10 cameras. He's not shooting scenes with intention. But I think there's also kind of a lack of fealty to hard story structure and script in terms of the execution of the movies. And you can feel it because they're all kind of baggy now. Or they all feel like they're missing something. And I did eventually rewatch the Napoleon director's cut and I thought it improved upon the movie a little bit, but maybe not enough that it got to like, you know, an A minus.

29:46Sean Fennessey:Even though I think all three of us kind of had a fun time with that movie. It's entertaining, but it's not the mega success that it should be. And he's now going through all these kind of series of styles of films. This is yet another genre zone that he's never really hit a movie like this before. And so he's going down the list of stuff like this. And, you know, they're just not as sharp. You know, they're not as sharp as the movies in the early 2000s and certainly not those breakthrough movies in the late 70s and early 80s. But I still, I don't hate watching his movies. I really enjoy watching the movies.

30:18Sean Fennessey:This feels like a case where both the script story and I think his general like truly unlocking of the world is working against it. I also think, I have some Jacob Elordi questions. And I think we should talk about it. It's important. I've generally... Like what? Compared to what? Yeah. Well, I mean, he's very important to Amanda, right? She has grabbed him as one of her guys, right? She's climbed him. She's climbed him. Not yet. A few more Pilates classes. We'll get there. I liked his work in Frankenstein quite a bit. I thought he was a terrific Elvis in Priscilla. I think he's a talented actor.

31:02Sean Fennessey:He's very effective in the first two seasons of Euphoria. Not the third one? I think the writing maybe failed him a little bit. Okay. I thought he was quite poor in this movie. And I think he was really lacking a deeper register that if you can't connect to this character, then you're going to have a hard time with this movie. And maybe that's the circumstances or the script or the way that the movie is being filmed with 10 cameras or what. But I just wasn't with him emotionally at all. And so that's a big drawback for the movie. I'll say this. There's a clip flying around with Guy Pearce talking about making this movie, and he's like, well, you know, I've worked with Ridley before.

31:40Ridley works very fast now. He shoots with many cameras so that rather than doing coverage and doing, you know, a master or two and then everybody's close-up coverage, there might be a camera on a hillside with a very long lens so that that's your close-up. but then there's also these three or four other cameras and he's essentially cutting between the cameras like a live TV director and assembling the movie as he goes along. And he was like, so sometimes you don't know what camera you're playing to. And I was like, for Guy Pearce and Josh Brolin and Benedict Wong, that may not matter as much.

32:15For maybe actors who are still developing their craft and what they're doing, I think that might have been complicated. and there are times, especially in the beginning of the movie, where you're just sort of like, you're putting this guy in an airplane hangar with Josh Brolin and having them do a two-person play and I think he actually has got something. I don't know what it is, but maybe not... Maybe not man with no name mystique. Yeah. Well, I don't disagree. The first 30 to 40 minutes of this movie, as I said, is him feeding a dog, but is also silent. And it is him doing outdoorsy stuff and flying planes and being silent and being part of an image.

33:04And for the most part, they are very beautiful images. It is a little ASMR. It does test how long I can watch Jacob Elordi doing manly things without getting bored. But at the same time, it is very soothing. So I think he's great at being photographed, which is part of being an actor and being part of a movie star. I don't disagree that once you have to get into the plot and especially the emotional motivation that he's not really selling his backstory. But to be fair, the movie is not giving him much to work with. It's giving him, and if I can do some light spoilers here, you know, ghost hologram wife who comes in and out and he just has to play the same scene of sitting in one room, like looking sad.

33:57And that is supposed to be the entire explication of his past life and everything that he's lost. He was a simple guy with simple needs. Sure, he was a mechanic. You know, living the dream.

34:09Sean Fennessey:Maybe this is in the book too, but the characterization of his character and Margaret Qualley's character is so oversimplified and it feels like the new Hollywood and European cinema never happened. It's like this is just a purely good man whose wife died. Right. Who loves his dog. And he's a mechanic and he likes to fix things. And that's it. Like there is no depth. There's nothing he's done that he feels bad about. The one thing we see that he feels bad about. Is he a Broncos fan? There's not a single personality trait. On a more basic level, I think he's too young. Because even as you're doing the timelines.

34:38Okay. I mean he, Jacob Lorty in real life is I think just turned 29. And I know that because I was a little taken aback. but even then if you're riding him up to 34 then what 10 years ago he's 24 he's married

34:52Sean Fennessey:what happens when the hunky guys that you dig are closer in age to your sons than you I don't like thinking about it and I just I don't think that we need to me and Sean are like first time yeah Franco meme yeah I think what you said I think what you both said is right, which is he's not given a ton of material to work with and he may be working in a way that is very different from, say, the hyper meticulous Guillermo del Toro style, right? Where like he is looking for every specificity and knows exactly what he wants. And like, you know, I really was not a huge fan of that Frankenstein movie, but I thought he was fantastic as the monster.

35:34Did you like him in Salt Burn?

35:36Sean Fennessey:Yeah, I think that's a more simple part, but I think he was very good at it. I thought that was an example of a director using what at that time he was very good at and photographing him in a very elegant way, but also like emphasizing his skills and hiding any of his weaknesses. I thought he was not as successful in Wuthering Heights. I thought both he and Margot Robbie were miscast. Have you seen Wuthering Heights yet? I haven't actually yet. It's okay. It's yet another like, actually, I kind of liked it from CR. Yeah. Not unlike Saltburn. Or Materialist. Yeah. It's right in that zone for you.

36:09Sean Fennessey:But we're on the front lines, which will allow you to then pivot. Of course, it's where I love to be. That's where I love to be. But I would say even in Wuthering Heights, there is a similar problem here where he's not, there's nothing, you're getting nothing from him in that. And so there's very little heat. There's very little, he's supposed to be longing and pining and, you know, this wild, untamable character. And he's just kind of like there smirking. What do you think? I agree. I was trying to put my finger on this. if Ridley Scott had had his way and this movie could have been made at any time over the last 20 years, who do you think should have played that role?

36:49Like, is that, is that supposed to be Sam Rockwell? Is that supposed to be?

36:53Sean Fennessey:No, I do think it needs to be a more imposing physical presence. Okay, so now his height is okay. It doesn't have to be tall, but just a little more rugged, I guess. Like, could Val Kilmer have done this part? Sure. I'm trying to think of like what, It's like pretty, but tough, right? Yes. Yeah, I have to say, this may seem like a superficial critique of the film, but I was distracted by his wardrobe. It's unreal. It's Jacob Elordi's wardrobe, right? Yeah. Like he's wearing like a big puff, like a big floppy scarf. Like a, what do they call those? Besides scarves? Like the way like the guys have like scarves that are like huge.

37:35Like giant? I don't know if they have a particular. Big scarf for a guy. That's totally fine. He's like a keffiyeh. What do you mean? No, he's just wearing like a scarf that was popular like four years ago. Yeah, kind of. But I don't think I mean, it's pashmina. So I don't think it is a pashmina. But I know what you're saying.

37:51Sean Fennessey:I think it's more about the Carhartt jacket and the suede jacket and the jeans that fit just so, even though he's living desperately and sleeping on the ground every night. Like he's going full Gorpgore. Yeah. Like Blackbird spy plane. Those jeans are amazing. Yeah. And it's true that all of the clothes are still in immaculate condition. And he does have, I mean, we are shown that he goes back to his pre-pandemic, excuse me, but it's, you know, right there at home. So he maybe does have access to a full closet. But I would agree the variety, the cut, the fit. And he is 6 '5". So I don't think it's that easy to find jeans that fit that well.

38:27Sean Fennessey:Had everything tailored? I mean. He invested in quality pieces. And when you do that, you can expect them to last. Honestly, true. So there was a double Carhartt moment when he's visiting the Mennonites one time. And then the suede jacket, which I am assuming is Bottega because he has a deal with Bottega, but I don't know. Anyway. Well, it took me out of the moment. I thought it was wonderful. I'm sure you did, but much like... Did it threaten you because you would like to be able to dress like that? Nothing about him threatens me. I'm a 48-year-old man. I don't walk around and be like, I don't know.

39:06But listen, Carhartt, well-fitting jeans, a vest, layering. I think he looks great. The color palette, but it's there. It's in your lane. You're doing it the CR way, but it is similar. But a character who had essentially been living off of beef, chili, and carrots for 10 years, fixing shit and living with Josh Brolin, would not look like he was throwing fits. He would be wearing one fucking coveralls and that's it. I completely agree with you. And yet I didn't care. I tripped out on the beef chili and the preparation of the beef chili. It took two minutes to make it. Exactly. Thank you so much.

39:48And all he did, like, I guess he did brown the meat, but then he just poured something else in and he was like, congratulations, here's beef chili. I guess we're not shown the stew, so it may not be an appealing stew. We may sound insane. No, we may sound crazy, but you're supposed to think about that.

40:05Sean Fennessey:No, there's time spent on these parts of the story. There's a lot of time spent with Jacob Elordi not speaking, wearing jackets. That's a big part of the film. There are other incidents that eventually do happen. We should talk about them. So, Jacob Elordi's dog is killed during the film. Yeah, and it's sort of Josh Brolin's fault. And it's sort of Josh Brolin's fault because Josh Brolin is attempting to teach him a lesson by arriving at just the last minute to save his bacon when some survivors Because he's been like hit his camp. slacking on making sure he's not being followed back on his recon runs.

40:42Sean Fennessey:And Brolin, who is his partner in survival and they have this kind of munitions and chilly tent together It's an airplane hangar. It is an airplane hangar. It's not a tent. But then Elordi does sleep outside for like watch purposes? It's seemingly also he just enjoys that and is a stargazer. Right, right. They underdeveloped the title until the end there. Yeah. So when they're attacked, much like the beef stew. Jasper, his dog, takes a bullet and dies. And this sends him into a kind of existential despair and it leads him to leaving Erie, Colorado to go find, chase a voice that he hears over the radio in Grand Junction.

41:25Right.

41:27Sean Fennessey:He doesn't make it to Grand Junction, quite. And he crash lands in the middle of a forest. Conveniently does not have his airplane destroyed landing in the middle of a forest. And he comes upon... He's a mechanic. I just mean in terms of not hitting a tree. That was convenient that he didn't hit the tree. Yeah, he picked a meadow he was going. Yeah, and he did a good job in that. I'm glad you approved that. And he stumbles upon a small Pioneer Town style ranch Well no he stumbles upon a magical donkey That's true He stumbles upon a magical donkey Which he then follows He is almost trampled by a herd Of CGI bison Really could have done without that Really really really tough That was one of the when we looked at each other like oh no I forgot about that Glanator 2 baboon zoo from hell It's really, we got to stop doing this?

42:18Sean Fennessey:We really didn't need that either. No. That was just not necessary. I guess maybe to show that one of the wings was somewhat damaged when he later fixes it. He could have hit a tree. It's fine. Yeah, it's fine. We didn't need to do our bison. And so then he finds the magical donkey who also survived the bison stampede. Yes. And leads him back to this homestead. Yes, which features yet another perfectly coiffed and uniformed, beautiful young actor in Margaret Qualley. Yes. Who's the last thing she did before the apocalypse was Seaboy Genius. And then she... Very much has that vibe. And her damned ornery father, who almost blows Jacob Lordi's head off, he's played by Guy Pearce.

42:59Sean Fennessey:Now, as soon as Guy Pearce showed up, I was like, oh, good, a real actor. Like, no shots to Josh Brolin, who I love, but who I thought was kind of doing... Josh Brolin. Josh Brolin core. He was like, I'm just kind of redoing my Sicario character, which is something that I enjoy, but was total shtick. But he's also like doing push-ups in between takes. And there are many like revealing shots of his biceps. Like it's a lot. I know it's something that you enjoy. I enjoy it. But Pierce, who also I love. He's an intensity that's very welcome. But he brings something to the movie instantaneously where you're like, oh, okay, there's some stakes in this movie.

43:29Sean Fennessey:People care. And he has an uneasy lack of trust for this man as people do of all outsiders there. But she naturally is drawn to this handsome 29-year-old man in Carhartt. and a slow romance begins to evolve. And I guess this is really where the plot starts a humming a bit, but I also felt like the story never really took off either because we don't know what anyone is really after. I guess we think he's trying to get to Grand Junction because there might be something there, but I find that so interesting because what happens when they eventually do go to Grand Junction in a narrow escape from this homestead is something that is an invention from the book.

44:09Sean Fennessey:Apparently, yeah. And it's so funny because when I was watching the movie, and the film takes this really hard turn, and we are fully spoiling, we're now into the third act of this movie. I was watching the movie, and the film has a kind of stylistic shift where tonally and visually something has changed. It's moved from this kind of naturalistic, homesteading adventure tale into something much more dystopian and absurd. and I was like this is actually something in a great genre novel that you can do like you can just turn the page on a chapter and just shift the vibe pretty dramatically yeah and you're like I'm going with it right I'm in the middle of this story I'm still in the lead character Steve King does that a lot all the time yeah where it's like a story goes from being very like um dream catcher is the number one version of that for me where you're like in the middle of that story and then he just shows you what the story is really about and you're like oh okay it's this.

45:04Sean Fennessey:So I was willing to forgive it because I was like, well, this is the novel. And then I learned that it's not even in the novel. And I was like, so where did this idea even come from? How would you describe this sequence in the movie? It's sort of like, well, I recently on vacation stayed at the TWA Hotel at JFK Airport, which is a refurbished hotel originally opened in the 60s. Very like Jetsons, Mad Many type looking. And the the TWA hotel has preserved as much as they can about this experience. And then you get to watch planes, which if you have two sons is, is awesome. But so this was like the TWA hotel from hell.

45:40It does have, it's a highly stylized. And to your point, you turned to me, Sean, as soon as we got there and said, well, how do they have power? Like very angrily because the internal logic of the movie is ruptured. But so bright, like retro futuristic. very like eerie kind of Wario weirdo land like something weird is going on in this every person's face there's something off

46:09Sean Fennessey:the makeup is quite pale and darkened under the eyes right and there's you know whether it's like Stephanie or Robotic or something there is just clearly like you're in some immediately in some sort of uncomfortable yeah and I guess it becomes clear that this is some sort of safe haven slash farm for a small colony of cannibals. And Allison Janney is the leader, a former stewardess who has had a Stalin-esque rise to power in this community. True. And it just like totally tilts the movie over and unmoored me from whatever story we were even trying to accomplish. And I don't even really know what the story was at that point.

46:49Sean Fennessey:Well, because I think that other than that whole sequence, which like you said, is at least not any published synopsis of the book. I haven't read Dog Stars and seems to be a film invention from Mark Smith and Ridley. It's a slightly dull but legible movie about a guy who's very nervous to open himself back up to human connection because he's lost everything. He's lost his dog. His mentor is telling him that they can't let anyone on their homestead because everybody else is a roach and we've got a good thing here where we defend what we have and we can just keep going, just the two of us. And then he meets someone, but by meeting her, he's like, fuck, like, what if I lose you too?

47:34That's all like... Yeah, and also I still haven't let go of my former life. But this whole thing with like, there's a Grand Junction thing, there's like... And there's also the weird cult. That's sort of the problem also of the second and third act is that it's not just following Elordi. They're introducing whole new narratives. And so you cut back for a long period of time to Brolin's homestead, which is rated. And it's technically pretty exciting. It's a cool sequence,

48:11Sean Fennessey:but it feels like it's in a different movie. Totally. And we like watching Ridley Scott blow things up, and he clearly likes to do that as well. And it is also some excitement in a movie that's been pretty laid back. but you don't have any explanation of who those people are and it goes on for so long that then it's a narrative strain that isn't really totally played out and then you dip to Grand Junction where Elordi is not involved in that scene. He's just kind of standing there for the most point. That's one of the things that's in the trailer that I watched is Elordi has like a different scene with Alice and Janney.

48:46It's a combination of the turn you get in a lot of zombie horror movies which is A, the place that we thought was paradise turns out to be hell, and B, these people have been like, we're not the first ones to come here. They find all these passports from people who have tried to come to Grand Junction before and have obviously been killed for whatever reason. There's also, so when you first meet Guy Pearce, he has a very visible tattoo on his forearm that looks like the graffiti that's shown at the beginning of the film. And then when they show up in Grand Junction, he starts rolling up his sleeves.

49:20in a very specific way. And I was like, oh. Oh God, I didn't even notice that. So are you, is there something here where you have a connection with one of the cult things and blah, blah, blah, but then you guys couldn't make it work and so you cut it out?

49:32Sean Fennessey:I think that, I think you may be right. Okay. That's really interesting. I didn't even notice that. I mean, and I, it was just purposeful enough. And, and. Because their behavior at Grand Junction is strange across the board. Guy Pearce is not acting like the way Guy Pearce has been acting for the rest of the movie. The Alordi is basically silent. Quali is essentially silent. So it's just a very strange sequence. It goes on for quite a long time. In the books, apparently, they like touch down and take back off again. It's essentially a trick where they're meant to just tripwire the plane as it's landing to track them there.

50:04Sean Fennessey:But he sniffs it out and they take off. And they never really properly land at Grand Junction. Yeah, but it's supposed to be like, oh, this place that I thought I wanted to go, I'm not going to go there. Yeah. So it's interesting that this has been inserted. Now, one of the reasons why I think it's been inserted is because it gives a Lordy's character a chance to be like a man of action where he's not really a man of action through a lot of the movie. And he's the one who helps them find their way out of Grand Junction in an exciting 30-second sequence. But again, I think you're right that if you're reading the sort of character's emotional context of this is a guy who is having a hard time trusting anybody and letting anybody in because of the loss he's experienced.

50:41Sean Fennessey:that makes sense in a sensitive drama about a man who's moved out into the middle of nowhere not in a post-apocalyptic thriller yeah and so that's kind of the challenge of the movie if like we really had to get down to it is it's presenting as one thing and then trying to tell you it's another but it's just not convincing enough to become another thing and so it's just an odd movie and it does feel to me a little bit like a lot of Ridley Scott's movies in the last 10 years where there's some really interesting stuff there's some really beautiful photography maybe you get one or two performances where you're like god damn God Pierce cooked but they don't totally congeal and like I think if you receive them the way that we received House of Gucci which is like what a romp sure you'll have a nice time they're all entertaining yeah and they all look better than movies that have this level of preparation or will figure it out later normally do yeah I think because he's such a prop because he's made so many movies.

51:40In recent years, I would say the decline of, or his reliance on maybe fixing things in post or his - CGI animals. Reliance on shooting with 10 cameras. And I think to your point about tempo earlier, there's like a, I think there's a cause and effect if you're just kind of like covering everything and getting two or three takes and moving on because you need to get to the next movie because you can't stop working. Then it's like, what is any scene? Like, what are you trying to do? How do you build up to something? And that's something that, like, as you go through his filmography, his 30 film filmography at this point, up until the last, like, seven years, you would never say that about Ridley Scott.

52:23You would say everything is so... Composed. Composed, and, like, it's every department working at the absolute peak of their powers and somebody who is... Yeah, some of his movies are uneven and some are better than others, but you felt like a storytelling ebb and flow happening and like a real like old master at work.

52:42Sean Fennessey:For years on this show, because we've covered Ridley so much because he's been so active in the last seven or eight years, I always say that he's a real, it's up to the script guy. And if the script doesn't work and you go back and you look at the 90s and 2000s and you kind of choose, like if he has a Gladiator script, it's going to be a bang on classic. And if he has like a G.I. Jane script, it's maybe not going to work as well. Yeah. and I feel like that's not true anymore I feel like now because of all of these changes in the production style that you're making there's an LA Times interview with him this week and he was talking about how because of Scott Free his production company is so busy they develop their own material and he's like talking Dog Stars was handed to him like here's the screenplay and he was like the last time I took a script from outside of our development was Martian which is also his last great film I would argue his last classic yeah yeah Yeah, it's funny.

53:34Sean Fennessey:I mean, we've now done both top five episodes and Hall of Fame episodes for him because he has released five movies in the last five years. And he's released 20 movies in the 21st century. And he's 88 years old. And he is not stopping. The other piece of news is that he's developing yet another alien movie centered around Michael Fassbender's David character. And he's going to keep going. And I see him in interviews and I'm like, he seems like he's doing okay. He's pretty sharp. And as you say, like this movie is in some ways extremely well made. Like it certainly seems like it's made by grownups and there's quality components to it.

54:13Sean Fennessey:So he shouldn't stop by any means. And one question that I see online a lot is like, how does Ridley keep getting to make these$75 million,$100 million,$150 million movies? Because he hasn't had a major, major hit in a long time. And one of the reasons I think is because of what you're describing, which is that Scott Free is this huge business driver in Hollywood. That it's not just this production company that makes tons of television, but there's also a commercial house attached to it. And he, of course, is one of the pioneers of the commercial director to auteur pivot, which is something we've talked about in previous episodes.

54:50And he's responsible for some of the more memorable TV commercials of the 70s and 80s.

54:55Sean Fennessey:and so he is big business in Hollywood to this day even though he's 88 he commands a lot of power so it's not shocking to me that he gets to keep making these movies but I don't do you think this is like shifting his legacy at all? because we talk about like the Scorseses and Spielbergs and they do one every two or three or four years and Tarantino's whole bit about only making 10 films because great filmmakers like Billy Wilder lost it when they got into their late 60s and 70s do you think this is going to meaningfully impact how we think about him? So, we've been talking a lot in the last five years about, like, a great director's, like, last great film and interpreting many of them, you know, Coppola, Spielberg, Scorsese, etc.

55:36Will this be the last one? Is this a mission statement? Like, is this, how does this explain the other work? And this is a swan song and all these sorts of things. and I think that Ridley Scott he's clearly not doing that but he's also so far not doing away from doing that that I he maybe lets himself off the hook of the the last 10 we're never going to look at one of them and be like okay now it's time for Ridley Scott you know to really tell us what the last 50 years have meant like he doesn't care he's what it's meant is just to keep working and we do have the original stuff. And nothing is so terrible in the last 10 years that I think it, he hasn't, as you said, he seems like pretty with it.

56:23He hasn't lost his curve ball. He's just doing what he wants to do. So it maybe changes what the final, how we'll write about the final chapter compared with some of those other directors. And I think we, as, you know, cinephiles do have a tendency to lionize like the last great work and he doesn't have one but also that's very in keeping with his career yeah which is just putting up his shots filmography is so chameleonic that it's hard for me to ascribe a map that he was following in the first place that he somehow deviated from the the path you know like i think he's always been a grinder he has been incredibly prolific throughout his career.

57:03He changes genres almost every movie. He clearly has like images and ways he likes to see the world that he repeats and goes back to. I would say that the thing that probably disappoints me about more or less that this decade of work is that you can start to see the seams and that you can start to see not a cheapness, but a speed at which he is working that I think he is actually cutting corners. And so they even movies like Napoleon, which you should at least be able to trust like the battle sequences are going to be astonishing, kind of look animated, you know what I mean? Which is fine and lots of movies have that feel, but I don't, Ridley Scott movies don't have that feel.

57:48Sean Fennessey:Yeah, I mean this was true in Exodus Gods and Kings. I remember coming out of that movie and being like, what? Is this Ridley Scott? And then the next year The Martian comes out. So it's one of those things where like I don't write him off ever And I think he's still capable of great, fascinating visual ideas. And you guys are right. Like he doesn't have some presumption of auteurship that so many of the other people who are like the heroes of this podcast do because he's just such a grinder. and also that he is working so routinely that as he gets older and as the technology changes but maybe his facility with it or the teams that he's working with and their facility is evolving, it's not as sharp as it used to be.

58:31Sean Fennessey:I just, I ask that question to you both because the 30 % Rotten Tomatoes score on this movie feels like a real like, we can say fuck Ridley now. Like we're more comfortable just like dunking on a movie like this. Whereas I feel like it's, I think it's a little worse than House of Gucci and Napoleon and Gladiator 2, but not like that much worse. And I don't even agree with you. You know what I mean? Like I think if this movie was directed by Francis Lawrence, we'd be like, that was pretty good. Right? Yeah. I mean, like it would be, it would have the same issues, but if it wasn't like a Ridley Scott film and you were sitting down and like, all right, Blade Runner, show me what you got now.

59:09I think if this was just like a workaday like director, we would probably be like, that was fine. Two and a half stars and it didn't quite hit

59:16Sean Fennessey:but I'm glad I saw it. Yeah. Which is kind of where I'm at with the movie. Right. So it's an unusual thing. The idea of him making another Alien movie is really interesting to me too. I don't think it's going to happen. Well, why do you say that? Well, for one thing that was my reaction when I heard about Alien Covenant. I'm like, you just did Prometheus and we're not done here? He's 88 and he's making Treasure Island in November he says and then he wants to make a Bee Gees movie and he also wants to make a movie about an elephant. I think this is something he got asked about. I find... An elephant?

59:46I didn't hear about that one. Yeah, he wants to... Is it going to be a real elephant? I don't know.

59:50Sean Fennessey:Is it Babar? I know. He's like, oh, I was greatly moved by this story I wrote about Africa. Ridley Scott's Babar would go so hard. Oh, my God. Would absolutely love that. Babar runner? Yeah. It was like Babar trying to tell if another elephant's an alien. Like a Last Emperor style, an ascendant young king? Sure. Come on. You also forgot the film about banking, which you're going to star in. Speaking of banking movies. I'm reading here. I'm reading from R. Ridley Scott. In an interview interview with a British newspaper, The Times, Scott revealed that in addition to a pirate film, a Western, a World War I epic, a Bee Gees musical, and a film about banking, he also has a, quote, marvelous film about an African elephant, end quote, in development.

1:00:35Yes. And then also another David movie for Alien, which I would welcome but I just I think at some point that's a lot of movies time is going to come for everybody why don't you tell us about your banking movie script I could never do it I could never do better than Margin Call

1:00:51Sean Fennessey:yeah what are they does he have any great unmade movies he must have dozens what are they let's look at his unrealized projects page because that's another fascinating component of this like he was one of the guys attached to Neuromancer which is now finally coming to the screen on television it did look good yeah Calum Turner I mean, look at all of these films. Just look at the Wikipedia for his unrealized projects. He's also one of the great yappers. So in interviews, he'll be like, and then I would love to make Blackbeard's Delay. And everybody's like, oh my God. I mean, he was attached to Blood Meridian.

1:01:23He was attached to The Passage.

1:01:26Sean Fennessey:He was attached to Red Riding. He was attached to several Robin Hood sequels. He was attached to The Wolf of Wall Street at a certain point. you know some of it is the yapping and some of it is just like scot-free is big business so everything goes through them as well and like if they put their names on a movie like that or they option something then they're going to get a chance to do something big it's such a it's such a big career and we've tried to put our arms around it multiple times and i still feel like i'm scratching the surface i watched kingdom of heaven last night for the first time in a long time and i was like this is okay and i don't want to hurt your feelings the director's cut yeah you were like this is okay Orlando Bloom is terrible in the movie it doesn't matter he really does he's the star of the movie David Thouless is in that movie he's just absolutely cooking I know I just my opinion of the classics has not really changed at all and when I sit down to watch whatever his 7 to 12 confirmed grade films I feel the same way about Alien as I did when I was 19 and I feel the same way about Gladiator as I did the day that I saw it which is to say Alien is like 5 star masterpiece and Gladiator is like a four star.

1:02:30Sean Fennessey:Like that was fucking good, but it doesn't mean as much to me as it does to a lot of people. But some of the other stuff, like I didn't rewatch All the Money in the World, for example. That's a movie that I think we often forget is a Ridley movie, even though it came up on Monday's episode. I've only seen it once. Is that a movie that anyone needs to watch a second time? I've only seen it once as well. Same. And then they made the FX series that is essentially about the same thing. As Trust. Yeah. Did Danny Boyle make that? Yes. Yes. Strange. He directed the first one at least. How did you think about going back and looking at his work for this discussion?

1:03:02To be totally honest, I just knew that I was doing it with the two of you. So I went back and rewatched The Counselor, which was another movie that I have not watched. And I did, in fact, watch it while sitting next to my son who was home from school. So I'm mother of the year. That was pretty much it. Because we have done so much Ridley stuff. and for whatever reason, whether it's other Hall of Fames, a lot of these are pretty fresh in my memory. So the counselor I hadn't seen in a while wanted to give it its time of day. It's pretty great. Yeah. You know, we'll talk about my big note. I scanned through some of the turkeys because I was like, is there anything here that I, like 1492 is terrible.

1:03:47So bad. I went back and looked at, I've done someone to watch over me it's not a turkey but I checked that out recently for rewatchables what else did I have to get my list out now okay

1:04:01Sean Fennessey:you made it very far you made it well over an hour before congratulations you needed to break out the laptop I mean should we dive into a proper ranking yeah this episode of the big picture is brought to you by Amazon Prime what pairs with a good comedy the cozy blanket arriving with Prime what pairs with a nail-biting thriller snacks arriving with Prime What pairs with the big game on Prime Video, that new couch arriving with Prime?

1:04:50Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com. This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. For 125 years, Nordstrom has been part of your story. The stylist who found the perfect outfit for your big interview. The first pair of walking shoes for your one-year-old. The tomato soup you shared with your sister at the cafe. These are the moments that make Nordstrom, Nordstrom. Big or small, we're here for all of it. Celebrating 125 years with new moments still add. Discover it all in Nordstrom stores and at Nordstrom.com.

1:05:24Sean Fennessey:Whatever feeling you're after, Prime helps bring it to life. With great entertainment and fast shipping that delivers what the moment calls for. From streaming to fast shipping, it's on Prime. As a reminder for you guys and for the listeners at home, when we did the Hall of Fame, we landed on these films. Alien, Blade Runner, Thelma and Louise, Black Hawk Down, Gladiator, Kingdom of Heaven, The Director's Cut, American Gangster, Prometheus, The Counselor, The Martian. I'd say the most controversial leave-off was Matchstick Men, a movie that has a cult. Controversial for you? I think just in general.

1:05:55Sean Fennessey:That was the one that was sort of like, The Counselor's very divisive. He was talking to Jamie before we recorded. He gave it a go this morning. He was like, I don't know about this one. You know, it happens. There are divisive movies in the catalog. Did you get to the Reuben Blade scene? Yeah, he said yes. All right, well, then I can't help you. The Diamonds? And that's the one where he's like, the world where you made your mistakes and the one where those mistakes can be undone is not the same world. You are at the crossing.

1:06:27Sean Fennessey:Wow. Get a fucking movie. We've lost Tony Scott and Cormac McCarthy now. Yeah. It's really sad. Any other mistakes you see here in this work? This 10 or 11 films that we talked about from that? Because in theory, you'd say, well, those films need to be in the top 10. So a lot of the work here is going to be about 30 through 12. I think I basically have the same 10 here. I stand mostly, yeah. Yeah, I have different order, but the same 10. And I think you can comfortably say five of these movies. This isn't in order, is it? It's just chronological. Yeah, that's the chronological order that I just read.

1:07:04Yeah, I'm just saying I have those 10 movies in my personal top 10, I think. And I think the top five are widely considered, if not all-time classics, truly great movies.

1:07:15Sean Fennessey:You know, I put Alien, Blade Runner, and Thelma and Louise in like kind of a class of their own. Yeah. I think many people would have Gladiator in that conversation as well. Black Hawk Down was kind of kicked up again. Tarantino put that at the top of his 21st century list when he did his, I think, kind of a politically fraught movie. But stylistically and aesthetically like mind-blowing. and then the other five some of them are personal preference some of them are more accepted than Martian one of the great crowd pleasers of the 21st century did we ever talk about that for 25 for 25? I don't think so are you a fan?

1:07:50I like it yeah it's wonderful I like it a lot it was interesting to go back and watch it for Project Hail Mary because I don't think I had in at least five years and even the Martian like watching it with 20 you know with hindsight is a little shaggy in the Ridley Scott sort of way. It's like two and a half hours. It's cutesy too. Yeah, exactly. Which was interesting just because I don't think we received it that way at the time. We were just like, wow, remember a good old time at the movies, but it does predict sort of what's to come in the next 10 years. Yeah, I mean, a lot of the NASA stuff is kind of twee.

1:08:23Sure. In retrospect.

1:08:25Sean Fennessey:Donald Glover and Kristen Wiig and all that stuff. That's one of those movies that I don't even know if I can articulate this. It's actually better to just watch 30 minutes of it when it happens to be on than it is to sit and watch the entire thing. Well, I think that brings up a challenge with a lot of his filmography in general and including his all-time classics, which is like, he's a great big screen director. He's one of the great canvas painters. That's his whole thing. So when you watch these movies at home, like me watching Kingdom of Heaven at home, even though it's on a beautiful 4K, it's not the same.

1:08:52Sean Fennessey:It's never going to be as enveloping. No, but I will say, I was watching Thelma last night when I got home and I was like, it's fucking ridiculous how good this movie looks. It looks... You watch The Criterion. Yeah. It just is beautiful, though. You're just like, this is just like two ladies on the run. It doesn't have to look like this. It's his Western. That's the thing. It's a beautiful, it's him doing a John Ford movie with those two actresses at the center. I don't know. Anything else pop out that you're like, we're missing something here before we start kind of getting into the nitty gritty of it?

1:09:23In the top 10?

1:09:24Sean Fennessey:Or whatever, in that top zone. no I think kind of the medium zone is what's going to be the trickiest like what do we what do we want to give credit to and what do we want to put kind of in just like the silly Ridley tear because everything else you are to the Martian point kind of picking for like the magical 30 minutes or the magical achievement of you know how it looks or a great performance or just the audaciousness of Cameron Diaz in a windshield. A lot of personal preferences. Yeah. To me, when I was thinking about it, I feel like both White Squall and Black Rain have shooters. You know, those are movies that like people are huge fans of those movies.

1:10:12Sean Fennessey:They're never huge movies for me personally, so I don't feel like I need to defend them when we're having a conversation like this. But if you were like my number nine is Black Rain, I would get it. Super stylish movie. Yeah. Would it be in your personal top ten? No. Okay. Let's do it. I mean, what's his worst movie? Let's just start at 30. I had 1492 there. Exodus, Gods and Kings is also pretty tough. It is pretty bad. Just going to put that there. You know, it can be 29. It's really fucking bad. It can be 29. It doesn't have to be 30. Excuse me. I just saw what you have at 29. And I think that you're going to need to reassess some stuff.

1:10:48Okay. You know, my computer.

1:10:50Sean Fennessey:Let's keep the audience at home engaged. Yes. You know? Sure. We want them to play along. Would you like to share? So 1492 is the turkey? I'll say, I would say Exodus, Gods, and Kings, then 1492 are 30 and 29 in some order. I had Gucci at 29. House of Gucci at 29. Which I just think you've lost your joy of life. Maybe. Perhaps. I'm sorry. Adam Driver and a turtleneck in the Swiss Alps? Or the Italian Alps, excuse me. Fly. Yeah. Like a pigeon. I just, I'm sure I was nice about it when we did it because I was just going insane at home or whatever. It was funny in the moment when they're having the weirdly violent sex on the office desk.

1:11:31And what is it? George Michael's Faith starts playing for the wedding scene. It's pretty good. I had a nice time. I don't think 29 is fair. I think it's entertaining.

1:11:40Sean Fennessey:I have not revisited it. It may be a while. Do I own it on 4K? I do. Okay, good. I do. I got the whole stack. I got the whole Ridley collection at home. You're putting that over G.I. Jane? I like G.I. Jane. Don't you? Okay. I don't know. I think there are worse movies in every direction. That's about a woman who achieves in a place where nobody expects her to do so. You know? Absolutely true. So true. You're right. Okay. So we're okay with 30 Exodus Gods and Kings, 29, 1492. Conquest of Paradise starring Gerard Depardieu. Okay. And Armand Assante. A biopic of Christopher Columbus. A French guy.

1:12:18Sean Fennessey:Yeah. 28. Now, some people would say House of Gucci. we can keep talking through that. I would probably submit a Goodyear, which... I was also going to... Absolutely not. Why did we... Did I rewatch this? Did we do a 2006 draft again? Possibly. Is that why did I... You think a Goodyear is good? I would... I will quit if a Goodyear is ahead of all the money in the world or is behind that. I would say they're comparable to me. It's a beautiful... First of all, who... Did you fucking get body snatched in the last two minutes? I was like, okay, So you can appreciate the setting of a Goodyear, but not House of Gucci.

1:12:55I like the setting. You don't like that people are having fun in House of Gucci. It's about a guy who plays tennis and makes wine with Marion Cotillard, right? I know. Yeah. But it's kind of like sad and weirdly emo. It's boring as fuck. I like that movie. And House of Gucci, they're killing people. They're in Milan. There's fashion. Tom Ford shows up. Not really, but a version of him. we're splitting hairs here between two unsuccessful movies. This is also, it's funny, it's like this is what happens with these rankings is that we all fucking assassinate one another about what's 29? And there's like 11, it's like I don't give a shit.

1:13:31Sean Fennessey:I mean, that's gonna happen because you and I are gonna start crying about Alien Covenant and it's gonna be like, whatever. But like, I'm not against that. I'm just not interested in it. Right, right. And I just, I don't really know why you need to be against House of Gucci. On paper Goodyear is very Amanda Coddard. sitting in the garden in House of Gucci, just being Jeremy Irons. Come on. It's interesting because, you know, Provence, where a Goodyear is set, is a very important place to you. But you're also a fashionista. Right. So is Italy. I'm going next week. You know, like I contain multitudes.

1:14:05That's true. Be careful. Don't break any laws. They might not let you out of here. Don't hurt Chris. No, I know.

1:14:10Sean Fennessey:No violence against him on camera. It'll be held against you in a court of law. Why are we choosing between A Goodyear and House of Gucci at 28? Why can't we also have... I don't think All the Money in the World is that bad. But why can't we have that in the conversation? I did. I put it in the conversation. I would honestly put... G.I. Jane is not really for me. But that's fine. Did you like Dog Stars more than G.I. Jane? I guess G.I. Jane is more of like a a whole movie even if it's not a very good one so okay dog stars they're all different sides of the same coin you know it's a it's a Dungeons and Dragons die of interesting visual components and unsuccessful why aren't we talking about Gladiator 2 well because that had Denzel sure and I thought I didn't hate it I think I didn't hate it I didn't hate it either but it did have a lot of CGI animals I really did you can listen to the pod that we did I think you were on leave when that.

1:15:12Sean Fennessey:It was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I went and saw it at 10 in the morning by myself. Big problems that start and end with Paul Meskel, in my opinion. But I think that was unfair. That's my feedback on your podcast was it's not Paul Meskel's fault. I root for him. What a shock. But can you have Paul McCartney and Maximus' son then also be James Bond? That would be. I don't think that that. The Amanda Triple Crown. Yeah. Why are we not asking it about whatever guy he played in Normal People? Connell? Was that his name? Connell. Yeah. You're so dismissive of television now. No, I love Normal People. I thought that was great.

1:15:52Sean Fennessey:Daisy Edgar Jones, she's got the juice. I think Dog Stars, All the Money in the World, for me, Robin Hood, A Good Year, G.I. Jane, and Legend are all in this zone. I think all of those movies are all in that like 27 to 22 zone I agree with that so I think I have and each one has something about it that I like and that's maybe why I'm not as dismissed and House of Gucci I should add that to the list here I have a good year in Robin Hood at 18th and 19th personally well you just love Russell Crowe and you have a beautiful heart and we saw Robin Hood together it was pretty cool it was not cool Oscar Isaac is cooking in that movie.

1:16:38Sean Fennessey:And they start out with this so vividly. We've had a few of these. Chris and I have had a few of these, right? Miami Vice is the number one. That's the number one version where we went together and I was like, I don't know about all that. And you were like, I have seen God. Yeah. And I was like, is this my best friend? Like, who is this person? You're getting worried about this because you're like, if we agree 99 % of the time and the 1 % is so upsetting for you rather than it just being like 50-50. No, it's only upsetting when you get on podcast and you're like, this movie changed me as a man when you're like talking about 2010's Robin Hood, which stinks.

1:17:08What are you talking about? I was like, I was there. It's like a dirge. It's so boring. Do you care about Robin Hood generally speaking? Not really. Did you see the death of Robin Hood?

1:17:16Sean Fennessey:No. And did you see the news that the uprising will be a secret Robin Hood backdoor film? I did see that. Yeah. Sort of like what they were going to do with Tony, but that didn't do. I mean, at the end, does he just say, and I'm Robin Hood. There's a guy named Sir. Andrew Garfield singing Robin Hood, little John Walker. That would get me in the theaters. Not getting the sense that's the tone of the film. Yeah. No. But it is from your guy, Paul Greengrass. And is it because it's public domain, you can just throw Robin Hood at anything? I think we talked about that, didn't we? And when we talked about the death of Robin Hood, weren't we like, this is a story that you can just kind of keep doing and you don't have to license anything.

1:17:49Sean Fennessey:Just like Mickey Mouse, who's also in the public domain. Just like Moses. Yeah. Right? Damn, good point. Nobody owns the IP for Moses. Yeah. That'd be cool if they were just like Anthony and Tony, a Moses story. I mean, he made Exodus, Gods, and Kings, right? Okay. Okay, so let's put some numbers against these titles. I'm going to just start throwing some ideas out. How many times have you been to Provence? He just said, let's put some numbers against these titles. I'm going to start doing this. And then you were like, how many times have I been to Provence? Yeah, what do you like about it? I've been once and it was phenomenal.

1:18:23Yeah.

1:18:24Sean Fennessey:Truly one of the most magical places in the world. It's a guy who's like, I'm tired of the rat race. I've inherited this, you know, estate. Yeah. And then he gets in touch with the things that actually matter. Right. It's under the Tuscan sun, but for guys. For wine boys. You also don't like wine. Yeah, I do. What's up with you and wine right now? I've been loving the rosé that they're serving at Cavell. I mean, I've just been... You missed a lot. You had two kids. You missed a lot of developments on my side, you know? I've been on some wine vacations with you. You as well. More and more than him.

1:19:01Sean Fennessey:That's true. In our early days in Los Angeles. I know. And we all heard about the edibles and Spanglish, right? But like, so. Who's we all? What about the young men and women who just started listening to this show four days ago? You've told the Spanglish story on this podcast before, right? I'm not afraid to say it. I took an edible with my wife. I did not really experience with it. I don't think we took the proper amount or we took too much. We went into a K-hole and we tried to watch Spanglish and it seemed like it lasted six hours. And then my wife was like, I need to go walk outside. I was like, I don't know if I'll ever find you again.

1:19:35Sean Fennessey:Spanglish, not directed by Ridley Scott. Let's stay on track. Number 26, House of Gucci. What's 28 and 27? 27. I can't believe you're going to bed for a good year. My head hurts. We barely started this. Do you want me to just be here to agree with you guys? No. Is the Rosé at Coveau from Pauvin? No, it's Italian. Did you say it was 18 a good year on your list? 18? Yep. Right after Robin Hood's 19. I have a good year in Robin Hood over Duelists. All the Money in the World 27. Wait, what? Over the Duelists? Yeah. Bro. Listen. What happened to you? The Duelists can be a little dull. Who watches the Duelists?

1:20:19The last time that we did this, I watched the Duelists again. And I was like, okay, it's good, but it's a little slow. It's it. All right. And now his mind is melting. But over the good year? The Duelist? That's fucking... You should go to the Hague for that. Are you kidding me? What kind of Ridley Scott fan are you? What are you talking about? I just... I don't need to... I watched The Duelist once. It's like take your driver's license test once and then you drive for the rest of your life.

1:20:46Sean Fennessey:Yeah, right off the fucking cliff like Thelma and Louise. Spoiler alert. You wanted to rank 30 movies. You knew this was going to happen. And if you guys want... Yeah, you came holding a fucking grenade and you pulled the pin. And you were like, let's fucking drop this thing in the middle of the room with a Goodyear and Robin Hood. Oh, Robin Hood is also over Duelist on this list. I haven't seen Duelist in a long time. I'm sure it's fine. It's excellent. What are we talking about? Yeah. Okay, all right. All right. So we're missing number 28. Right now we have 30 Exodus gods and kings, 29, 1492 conquest of paradise.

1:21:22Sean Fennessey:Do we have any Hannibal defenders here? I have Hannibal. What, 14? at 9 22 you know it's just not really in my interest set is Dog Stars 28 sure alright yeah I had it at 26 that's totally fine yeah and we're and you had Gucci at 29 and we're moving it up at least to 26 you know what I feel like my list is getting a lot more scrutiny than your list I haven't I haven't made a list yeah I'm making it here with you right now so I did the work but I'm getting criticized for it as always yeah

1:21:58Sean Fennessey:we've got 30 through 26 okay alright 25 through 20 I have I'll do 20 Duelist you can put it as far up as you want for Letterboxd 21 excuse me how dare you watch your mouth 21 G.I. Jane 22 Hannibal 23 Napoleon 24 Gladiator 2 and 25 Legend I'm not a big Legend guy I'm not a Legend person either I'll put Legend at 25 yeah that's fine That's good. You know, if you put it any lower than that, one day after Tim Curry's death, you should also be sent to The Hague. Right. But the film itself is, I think, quite dull. And Tom Cruise is... Just give me another sentence. I don't care. Wow. Do you want to play...

1:22:40Another spoiler alert. G.I. Jane... 24. Yeah, 24 for G.I. Jane seems good. Okay. And also mixing it up a bit. There are some very interesting aesthetic things about that movie. I think to be more doing her absolute best.

1:22:56Sean Fennessey:Viggo Mortensen, excellent in it. Worst chestnuts in that movie. Yes. I did rewatch it, I think, for our last conversation. Got it. And I felt like it was fine. All right. Okay, so this is where we start to get into Hannibal, Robin Hood territory for me personally. Sure, we can do that. We can drop A Good Year in Robin Hood down and move duelists up. Hannibal is a freak show, right? Like, it's a very silly sequel that is significantly worse than its predecessor. I don't mind watching it. It's a diabolically toxic movie. It is. I admire it for that. Yeah. But yeah. It is quite gross and quite evil-seeming.

1:23:45As I said, it's just, it's not my bag.

1:23:48Sean Fennessey:Not your interest set. Yeah. But that doesn't, if you want to, you know, advocate for it, that's fine. The one in which his brain is being eaten on screen, yes.

1:23:59Sean Fennessey:I, to me, the three Crow movies are not successful. Robin Hood, Goodyear. And Body of Lies. Now, I know Body of Lies is one of your faves. That's one where we've got a problem then. Well, I'm willing to broker with you. I bring it up because I'm saying I'm not letting Robin Hood and A Goodyear go much higher here. Put it right there. I don't care for them. Put it right there. Because I know that you do have a place for body of life. No one said anything about a body of life. Well, Sean did, but not me. Okay. Leonardo DiCaprio with an earpiece and his Nokia rolling around with Oscar Isaac. Once again, what we're talking about right now are Robin Hood and A Goodyear.

1:24:41Okay? Yeah.

1:24:42Sean Fennessey:They can go down here. 23, A Goodyear, 22, Robin Hood. How do we feel about that? I mean, I like a good year more than I like Robin Hood, but... That's fine. Swap them. That's fine. Okay. I mean, they both stink. I don't know what we're talking about here. Italian rosé, and I'm not there? The invitation is open to you whenever you want. I was actually thinking about bringing the kids to the home state near you, and then combining a home state Covell experience, so I could try this Italian rosé. Seems like a really relaxing wine bar. You were just thinking about this right now? No on the drive here.

1:25:13Oh, okay.

1:25:14Sean Fennessey:you were thinking about that on the drive here yeah you know you're about to go to Italy for 10 days when are you going to go to the wine you're going to have Italian wine in Italy on your calendar okay number 21 I'm living out loud you know what is number 21 let's see so what's left do you like Duelist more than someone to watch over me I think it's Napoleon oh yeah we got to get Napoleon if we're doing the bottom third I think that you just said that disrespectfully, but I think 21 is the right place for something that we enjoyed. I can neither confirm nor deny that P.T. Anderson rewrote the script for this movie, but all the things that we talked about in the episode that we thought were so funny in that screenplay and everything that Joaquin Phoenix is doing, which I think, I don't know if it saves the movie, but it at least shields it from some of the jankiness of the classical historical drama stuff that you expect to be so buttoned up in a Ridley movie, it certainly feels like Paul Thomas Anderson's script when it is funny in that way.

1:26:19The lamb chop.

1:26:19Sean Fennessey:Yes. Yeah. And all the sex scenes and the way that he's characterized as this buffoonish guy. Okay. Okay. So Napoleon at 21. This is the hardest work, 20 to 10, in my opinion. I think this is, we're in someone to watch over me, Black Rain. I agree. Last Duel territory. Do you want me to do my 10 to 20? Yeah, let's hear it. My 10 to 20. Covenant, 10. I don't know how I have this. Go from 20 to 10. Okay. 20, I had duelists. Robin Hood, a good year. Someone to watch over me, Black Rain, Last Duel. Okay. Matchstick Men, White Squall, Body of Lies. I have American Gangster at 11. I don't know. It was in the top 10.

1:27:04You put Covenant at 10. We didn't have that originally. And I have Covenant at 10.

1:27:08Sean Fennessey:Yeah. So I would say here we should do White Squall. No, we should do Black Rain, Someone to Watch Over Me, White Squall, and Last Duel. I'm okay with that. Does that make sense? Sure. Yes. I think we're actually, we have a lot more in common than we think. That's beautiful. Generally, we have tiers that are very similar, with some exceptions. You guys are getting a little caught up on a good year in Robin Hood, but like we're a lot closer. I just saw red meat and I just chased after it. CR looks like good year since when? I've always liked that movie. I don't know why. You know, it's the only movie of his not available on Blu-ray.

1:27:49Sean Fennessey:Maybe it's because it lives as a memory for me. Sure. Okay. So Black Rain, someone to watch over me, White Squall, and we said, what comes after that? Do you think you'd ever send your sons on a boating like yacht summer camp with Jeff Bridges as their only mentors? No. I don't. I don't really think... I think they would need at least, like, one person per boy on a boat. That's right. I don't trust, you know... We need man-to-man coverage at least until they're 18. Let's play a little White Squall game, okay, Amanda? Okay. Scott Wolf or Jeremy Sisto? Oh. At that time? In 96, Scott Wolf. Scott Wolf or Ryan Phillippe Scott Wolf Scott Wolf or Balthazar Getty Balthazar Getty Scott Wolf or Ethan Embry or excuse me Balthazar Getty or Ethan Embry Balthazar Getty Balthazar Getty or Zeljko Ivonek I don't know Chris James Rebhorn or Zeljko Ivonek I think Ivonek okay yeah is there anything you want to say about Black Rain Someone to Watch Over Me White Squall or The Last Tool We spoke of The Last Duel on our flops draft.

1:29:09Yep.

1:29:10Sean Fennessey:White Squall is decent. A good example of he can take a 65 % movie to a 75 % movie just by his eye alone. This is one of his most famous bombs, actually. And this never came up in our flops draft. But this movie only made$10 million despite its starry and exciting young cast. and I think a setting and an idea. It's kind of a bummer of a movie. It is, but it has exciting components, but it really didn't work, which is kind of unusual. But he has a number of these over the years, I guess. Someone to watch over me, I've never really joined Bill's cult on that movie. I mean, it almost exists outside of like the Ridley Scott canon.

1:29:54If it was directed by, I don't know, Carl Franklin. John Madden, you would be like, yep. It's just like a kind of good.

1:30:04Sean Fennessey:an atmospheric corny cop drama yeah yeah um Black Rain's super cool yes a little problematic it looks fucking incredible it does um I don't think there is a single street in this movie that hasn't been hosed down beforehand yes it is a wedded pavement yeah yeah uh Michael Mann-esque crime overseas drama um okay so 16 through 11 Amanda what do you think so so And we're agreed that the top 10 from the Hall of Fame have to stay the top 10. Or do we want to do some trading? They don't have to. I don't think he has changed. I would say that different films since we've done the top 10 have risen higher for me.

1:30:47And some have dropped down. So how is Gladiator 2 not yet on the list? Oh, we fucked up. Yeah, we messed up. I think Gladiator 2's got to go somewhere maybe between... You're right. We're going to have to fix some of this. Do you want to put Gladiator 2 in front of... Do you think it's better than Napoleon? I don't. So do you think it's better than a Goodyear?

1:31:08Sean Fennessey:I think it's right in that zone. Okay, so put it between Napoleon and Goodyear. So yeah, let's make 21 Gladiator 2. God, it's probably worse than that. Like is Gladiator... I don't know. Will you ever watch it again? Probably. Because I don't respect myself. Yeah. Like not like randomly to... I just think Denzel's having an absolute blast. I think Fred Hechinger is having so much fun. and Joseph Quinn. They're both, they're both, that part of the movie is very entertaining and gaudy and silly and just kind of great off the rails Hollywood stuff that I really enjoy. It's like Peter Usinov was reborn.

1:31:42Sean Fennessey:So I really dig that stuff. All the Paul Maskell stuff I find very dull and I find the CGI animals upsetting. Very disappointing. Yeah. The shark stuff's kind of funny. Fill in the Coliseum with water. Yeah. And it turned out that there was some truth to that that they did do some version of that back in the day. It's a cool idea. but it just feels very not very well executed. Yeah, yeah. No, it's true. How you doing there, guys? Everything going okay with resetting? Okay, I know. This is hard work. This is really not easy. Okay, so now we're down to 15. Okay, so what we have Covenant, Body of Lies.

1:32:20Sean Fennessey:From outside the top 10. Matchstick men. I feel like Dueless at 15 is respectable. Okay. And Hannibal. I like that. Oh, Hannibal's still there too? Yeah. Oh, I thought we put Hannibal down. Okay, my bad. No, we didn't. I think Hannibal goes after Napoleon personally. At 19? Yeah. I'm good with that. That's fine with me. Let's put Hannibal at 19, and that makes the duelist 14. Okay. You going to be okay with that? Yes. I fought my battle and I lost. It's okay. Okay. I think you should give the duelist another look. Sure. I'm not trying to be a dick. I was like, I just happened. I'm being honest about how many, like, what movies I have returned to.

1:33:01Sean Fennessey:Kytel, in period pieces, undefeated. Unable to change his accent. So just some guy from Brooklyn showed up.

1:33:13Sean Fennessey:Body of Lies has to go with 13 because I don't get it. Like, I get why you like it as a Lioness prequel, but, like, I don't get it. Okay. Do you get it? This is... I, it's one of those things where I better understand Chris through it. Based on the novel by Washington Post columnist David Ignatius. Uh-huh. Maybe I should look at this again. There are some things that I treasure as a way to feel closer to you idiots. And Body of Lies is on the list. So I'm not going to stand in the way. The first hour of this movie is incredible. The second hour. To me, it's just Leo's spy game. And it's, you know, it's okay.

1:33:51and the second half of it, I think, lags a little bit. Russell Crowe is at his insider weight and is acting from a backyard in Bethesda, Maryland for most of the film, just with a Bluetooth headphone on. I mean, what do you want? What do you want from movies? It's really true. And it's a perfect distillation of what you want from a movie. We should get you a Bluetooth headset. We haven't really done enough comedy with that. In general, I advocate for more props, but him with the Bluetooth. You know, many things are possible in this life. Has anyone ever asked you to appear in a film as an actor?

1:34:32No. I was hoping to be cast. Van and I put ourselves forward to play parts in Linus. Oh.

1:34:38Sean Fennessey:Yeah. Like two guys in a truck? Like guys with data entry? Yeah. And all the crazy shit is happening? So you don't want to play yourself? No. You want to be someone? You want to be like an Easter egg? I feel like this is possible for you. We're getting closer. We did a bit about it on the pod, and we put up an Instagram clip, and Michael Kelly, the great character actor, said, that's fucking funny. And then Zoe Saldana liked it. All right, there you go. Wow. Okay. That's real forensic analysis of social media. I was unaware of this. I was made aware of this. I see. People who have liked the watch clips on social media so far, we've got a list of two.

1:35:16Zoe Saldana, two famous people. Zoe Saldana, Travis Kelsey. Yes. Okay. Anyone else we should add to the list? Not that I know of. I don't look at the likes generally. I see.

1:35:25Sean Fennessey:So someone let you know about this. Kaya let me know. Did she call from a Body of Lies style Bluetooth headset? Ciara, I have some news. Okay, there's two films that need to go with 12 and 11 given our list. Those films are Alien, Covenant, and Matchstick Men. I think that's great. I think Alien, Covenant is 12, Matchstick Men is 11. Agree. I like both equally. Exactly the same. And in different ways. Exactly the same. There are different kinds of movies. I did revisit Alien Covenant this week, and it's the male version of a bodice ripper. It's just like sci-fi, dork, fantasy shit of just people's innards being thrashed at every turn.

1:36:05Probably the greatest cast ever assembled that he then kills within 40 minutes of the film starting.

1:36:10Sean Fennessey:Yeah, which is a great trick, something I always enjoy. And that leaves us with 10. Okay. And this is the 10 from the Hall of Fame, and now we have to order them. Okay. We can do it. I believe that Alien is his crowning achievement. I think we're unanimous at the table. I start there. Okay. As saying, I think that's his best film. I think Alien and Blade Runner are the top two. Yeah. Would you want to make a case for Thelma and Louise's number two? I think there's a case. I mean. Because it is a different register and Alien and Blade Runner are so interwoven in terms of like the worlds that they're creating and living within science fiction and the kind of like paranoid, doom-laden quality of those movies.

1:36:48Sean Fennessey:where Thelma and Louise is very different. Yes. I mean, I think in terms of influence, all three have their own very significant lane. But, I mean, Alien, for my money, the greatest sci-fi. And then Blade Runner, just, you can't watch another movie or TV show or commercial for the next 40 years that imagines the future in any way without Blade Runner. So I do think, you know, the ending of Thelma and Louise and that final shot, not to mention everything about it and featuring two women in a movie that people wanted to see is important. So it's equally important, but three seems fine. Like Blade Runner is like kind of his brand after Alien.

1:37:35Nope. You think we'll ever do Blade Runner on the rewatchables? I hope so. I think it's kind of undeniable and it's begging. I think also Bill would love, I think Bill would love like the idea of like what's the right version of it and like all the the production stuff great cast great cast to talk about the career right and he also loves what's their um Sean Young you love Sean Young Sean Young Daryl Hannah

1:37:59Sean Fennessey:yeah and uh oh my god Joanna Cassidy also fantastic um okay number four I guess Gladiator right yeah probably oh I don't have I don't have it anywhere near that okay let's talk about that I thought I was the Gladiator well I I like it I think we're talking about some of my favorite movies here. So it's not a big deal for Gladiator. I had it at eight. Oh, okay. Do you have Kingdom of Heaven at five? I have Kingdom of Heaven at three. Okay. For my sins. I think I have... It's a little rich for my blood. But I care about you and I want you to feel good about this. I think Kingdom of Heaven

1:38:39one-to-one, I think is better than Gladiator. I haven't rewatched it in a while. I did see it, not the director's cut, obviously, but I remember seeing it in theaters. It's a terrible movie. And it was terrible. 2005. Yeah, I was in college.

1:38:55Sean Fennessey:And they added 45 minutes to the cut. Yep. I guess I revisited some of it. I mean, Gladiator won the Oscar, you know? It's fine. I understand that we want to be cool, but I don't know we can be that cool. Taking some arrows in this episode. I am. I just think she's really not over the idea that I'm drinking wine without her. Because I didn't know.

1:39:22Sean Fennessey:I didn't vibe with it as much as I thought I would. And I didn't participate in the director's cut stuff. I thought I did. And I understand why it's improved upon, the original. But it being a number four, I don't. But I thought Gladiator would have been a concession at four from my perspective. like for just for my money personally I would rather watch Black Hawk Down, Prometheus or The Counselor like and The Martian I would rather watch all four of those movies I think Prometheus is the best of the bunch amazing take whoa amazing take oh sorry this is great well have two C-sections then call me get out of me yeah I didn't look at that again though I've seen it at least four or five times yeah I like you've revisited The Counselor.

1:40:14That movie is extraordinary and worth noting a personal favorite of Ridley's. Probably also because it was such a... It's a tribute to his brother, right? A tribute to his brother, yeah. I think he's also like, this is sort of when my style of filmmaking works best is he did that in essentially like two weeks.

1:40:31Sean Fennessey:Yeah. Well, he tells that story about the script came in. He's like, Cormac's words are perfect, we'll change nothing. And then within five days, the entire cast, which is one of the starriest casts of its time, you know Pitt Fassbender Bardem Cruz Diaz like all those actors down to people doing one scenes like Rosie Perez and Ruben Blades um who's the diamond merchant I thought that was Ruben Blades no Ruben Blades is like the guy it's Bruno Gans yeah Bruno Gans um yeah he had the audacity to put Ruben Blades and Bruno Gans in the same movie um I don't think the Covenant can be number four no no no I don't have Covenant number four no no no I meant I don't think the Counselor can be number four sorry okay I would go...

1:41:11Sean Fennessey:It can be... So you're not a gladiator person either. This is so interesting. I think it's really good. Yeah. And I'm with you. Like, I really enjoyed it for Starz. And it's not some, like, classics major type thing at all. I honestly just... I guess I'm not that much of a Russell Crowe person. I think it's really good. And I think all of the buildings look really fake. And I just, it honestly has aged very poorly from a technical perspective. It makes me hype as fuck, but I don't think it's actually a particularly profound film. You know what I mean? I think it's kind of like says what it does on the box.

1:41:54Strength and honor and all that. Wow. But I mean, also. You put me in the position of defending Gladiator.

1:42:01Sean Fennessey:I thought I was going to be the wet blanket about this. I think it should be in the top five. So what's our audacious pick at four? Let's say Gladiators 5. What's 4? I guess Prometheus? Prometheus or Martian?

1:42:17Sean Fennessey:I think Prometheus is a better movie than The Martian. I do as well. Then let's put Prometheus in 4. Yeah. Let's get freaky. Let's get freaky. I like it. And I will do... I would accept The Counselor at 6 if you want to get really, really, really weird with it. I think that Cameron Diaz is you know not good at acting in this movie but that's okay you could only but you've never been more wrong in your life well let's I'm sorry let me rephrase that because what she does physically is is forever I've never seen an actor achieve her goal more clearly that is true I would say that I don't think Cameron Diaz is good at line readings in this movie I think she she had an idea she knew the text yeah and she arrived you know and then that didn't quite jive but it doesn't matter because she does the other things with such force what do you think of Javier Bardem in this film well listen he was in his groove from Skyfall on you know just like you know you put on some hair and some crazy accents did you guys watch him on subway takes talking about his love of metal yeah it was fucking awesome it's so good it's just so good he likes a lot of bad metal yeah like really bad he was like rock is back but I love this passion and then did you see Penelope Cruz talking about how she just like reads medical texts at night this was one of the interview the invite press junket things where that's her hobby she's like I don't have a degree but I go home and I read like very thick medical texts about the nervous system that's awesome they're such learned people yeah what a life much to admire I think they probably have a spirited marriage what do you think?

1:43:59based on this film yes

1:44:05Sean Fennessey:so 7 is going to be Martian? I think Black Hawk Down oh okay sure yeah yes I rewatched it there's a moment before the true mayhem begins when the helicopters are loading up and the men are gearing up for the battle and Jimmy Hendrix Stevie Ray Vaughan's cover of Voodoo Child starts and to me that was cinema Like we are in this list already valuing imagery over message. Say hello, Ridley. And exactly. And that's in the spirit of the man. There's no doubt some discomforting perspective on African identity and how their story should be told. And there's this sort of like weak faint towards the African perspective in the film, you know, that really kind of undermines its goal because it's so one dimensional.

1:44:59Yeah.

1:45:01Sean Fennessey:And it is, you know, it can be read as an expression of this kind of jingoistic American power military propagandist machine. I don't think that's what it intends to do and mostly evades that. Though there are some times where there's some glorifying going on that is not ideal. There's one particularly horrible Eric Bana moment at the end of the movie that I wish was just completely cut out of the movie. There's another issue. I mean, this era from 2000 to 2010, you get some wishy-washy actors in main roles. I mean, I do feel like every time we talk about a movie, I'm like, well, Eric Ben is in it.

1:45:39Sean Fennessey:Yeah, well, Ben and Bloom are in these movies. It's tough. Is this like a Munich shot you're going to take? Yeah. Wow. When I rewatched that, I was like, this is a stone-cold masterpiece. I think that it is a stone-cold masterpiece except for the performance. performance. Eric Bana should switch roles. Yeah. Are you kidding me? What about his work in This is 40? I think that's more in tune to his abilities. To bring it all full circle, pretty funny. Mark L. Smith, who wrote Dog Stars, also wrote Eric Bana's Netflix series Untamed, where he plays a forest ranger in Yosemite. I haven't seen it. Okay.

1:46:14Is it good? Yeah, that's some real Dog Stars core. I've gotten pretty into mountains in the last 24 months, like watching content about mountains. My brother. Yeah. Join me in Telluride. What? What is this? What mountains? Well, did you watch the series Dark Wizard? Yes, in fall. What are you talking about? I don't know. It's a climbing documentary. I've seen you all summer. Told Zach about it. It's a docudrama about Alex Honnold's sort of main rival in free solo climbing. Oh, cool. Okay. And what else did I watch? A lot of stuff recommended if you liked this. Okay. Me and Chris are going to be living in Colorado in 10 years.

1:46:53Sean Fennessey:I'm telling you. North American mountains? primarily. The Alpinist is in the Alps. What's your favorite national park? I don't know. I don't think, do I have one? It's not, it's just like not really my scene, but you do know that I love the American Southwest. So I went back to New Mexico recently and I thought the boomers were evil and the natural scenery and everything. Yeah, but Arizona? I don't know. Do you know what I find deeply moving and also really some amulet when I want to go to bed. Ken Burns' National Parks. Yeah. Wonderful series. Yeah. Okay. What about you? Do you have a favorite national park?

1:47:33I love Big Bend in Texas.

1:47:36Sean Fennessey:Never been. Been to Yellowstone? Is Shenandoah... I don't know if that's a national park. Like, what would be that area? It might be. Let's see. Shenandoah. I see you've closed the giant laptop. Is that not the Adirondacks? It's a national park in Virginia. Yeah, Shenandoah. in Virginia. It's beautiful. Okay. That's Blue Ridge, right? Yeah. So now I'm Googling Smoky Mountains National Park. Oh, Great Smoky Mountains National Park is I guess my answer in honor of Dolly. Did you go there as a child? Yeah, of course. All the time. Because I mean, that's where like Dollywood and you know, Knoxville's not that far from it.

1:48:10Chattanooga, Ruby Falls.

1:48:14Sean Fennessey:Arches and Zion for you? Zion was life-changing. I need to go back there. Although I'm so much physically weaker than I was when I first went there. When I went there, I was like, I'm probably the strongest I'm ever going to be. Don't underestimate yourself. And you've got to get back in the gym. We have 10 through 8 to do. Okay. What's left? We need to put American Gangster, Kingdom of Heaven, and The Martian on the board. I think it probably goes for the purposes of our podcast. I think we all know it's going to go American Gangster. No, Martian, American Gangster, Kingdom of Heaven. No. So, Hannah's American Gangster, in my opinion.

1:48:52I agree with that. I think you misunderstood. Oh, you wrote the other one. Do you think American Gangster is better than The Martian? No, I do not. Oh, okay. So, The Martian, number eight. Kingdom of Heaven, nine. American Gangster, ten. I think that's right.

1:49:04Sean Fennessey:You agree? Yeah. I know you want Kingdom of Heaven higher. That's okay. What do you want to take out? You want to take Gladiator out? Put Kingdom of Heaven in there? That's what you really want? I mean, that's what I said. I said that I think it's actually secretly a better film. And when I say secretly, according to me. I mean your strong point of view is part of what makes this such a special company you know I think not even joking I I don't know Amanda what's your zaniest opinion here what's something that you when you look at what we've done here in ranking these 30 films which will probably be our last ever released God episode we will not need to speak about this God willing he lives another 20 years but we won't re-rank these movies we will outlive this podcast okay so right now Now we're looking at May 2028.

1:49:47We've extended it.

1:49:48Sean Fennessey:We pushed it because of X-Men. Because of X-Men. We got April will be Beatles. No. May will be X-Men. You guys have to keep it going until Heat 2. What are you talking about? Oh, okay. So when's Heat 2? I know. Late 28 probably. But weren't we told that that's yours? That's yours and Bill's? Bill already claimed Chris for Heat 2. I know. I heard about this. Oh, he did? Yeah. To your face. To my face? Yes. I see him a lot. It's hard to remember everything he says. I don't know what podcast it was, but he was just like, I know you're always on the big picture and you got a lot of loyalty to those guys but for heat to your mind.

1:50:18Alright.

1:50:19Sean Fennessey:Good to know. So we don't have to wait for that. We can wrap it up with X-Men. And then what are you guys going to do? Surf. I'm going to learn about the national parks. Lucrative. No, I'm going to move to Provence. Open up a winery. Sure, of course. My whole family. I'm going to move with Marion Cotillard. Yeah, that's what I was wondering. That would be kind of weird if I left my family and move to Provence. If Lea Seydoux is waiting there. Man. So special. Yeah. Any zany takes? Any top rope stuff you want to do here at the end? Don't we feel that most of the zany takes are in the list? Prometheus at four.

1:50:59Sean Fennessey:Prometheus at four is zaggy, but in a way that I like. Counselor at six. You know, it's the most honest version of Ridley Scott. So the conventional wisdom would be that matchstick men should be higher. I assume Gangster should be higher. Kingdom of Heaven and Counselor should probably be lower. I think Prometheus and Counselor are very divisive. Yeah. Very divisive. You and I especially have always been into them. In fact, I don't know when we wrote about Ridley. Did we write about Ridley for GQ or Tony for GQ? I thought we did Ridley for Grantland. Maybe we did Ridley for... Because wasn't it the genre is finding inside height of each of these movies or something like that?

1:51:36Sean Fennessey:Yeah, and we did something similar about Fincher. but at grant at gq we wrote something about tony scott we were sort of like it was when unstoppable was coming out and it was like why doesn't anybody talk about tony scott tony scott is one of the great auteurs let's revive him in a kind of a mainstream way even though he was basically just kind of like a for hire yeah like unstoppable yeah genre guy um and then we did a couple different versions of that we wrote about ridley was it on for for prometheus or was it for the council i think it might have been prometheus because that would track with like when you had moved out here we went and saw Prometheus at Cinerama with Andy yeah so those two movies were always very big for us but they were sort of similar to my Congo story earlier this week I'd read reviews and people would be like Prometheus one and a half stars yeah that was crazy I don't really understand that but there's very few people I think would put it put it at four even though we all like it for different and similar reasons um it's interesting that he has made three alien I never would have guessed that 10 years ago he's like mad that he doesn't get to make Blade Runner still and that he lost the rights to that yeah that is so interesting alright I'm going to read the order is there anything else you want to share?

1:52:42nope I think that I made my best efforts to revive Goodyear on this pod

1:52:47Sean Fennessey:you got to share your point of view yeah right did you feel that you got to do the same? absolutely I'm still reeling on the mountains think from the last 24 months what about oceans near mountains? that's really okay wow okay i mean like i don't know you anymore she doesn't want the mountains because she feels trapped i thought no no no that's flat spaces it's flat spaces that i don't like the plains yeah montana when you ask my favorite national park i couldn't be anything in montana because when i went to montana i was like where do you hide well there's a lot of mountains in montana but well i was on the plains i was in big sky country and it was just like it went on forever and ever and ever i like mountains did you ever decide who you're hiding from I just you never know but like dog stars hiding or yeah okay well just no not like survivalist it just just like a very primal every day I wake up and my job is to survive you know and I gotta be scanning what are you talking about if you could be if you could be a movie podcaster or a reclusive writer of mystery novels who lives on top of a mountain what would you choose I have to be on a mountain no well Well, it's funnier that way, but continue.

1:53:59Well, I mean, it matters. If I'm living by the ocean.

1:54:02Sean Fennessey:In this hypothetical scenario, it matters? Yes. Because if I'm living by the ocean and I'm writing mystery novels. Never just get a straight answer out of you. That seems great. But mountains, eh, I picked this podcast. So there you go. That's heartwarming. That's nice. Altitude really fucks with you or fucks with me anyway. It takes one day and then you're fine. Yeah, but I don't know. I just like I like them and I like beholding them. Before Dogstar started, I turned to Amanda and I said, next year, no, 2028, I go to Venice, you go to Telluride. And she got really tight and like nervous, like anxious.

1:54:41Which what we should do is make her go to like a drive-in movie theater festival in the middle of nowhere where there are no hills. That's right. Like in big sky country.

1:54:50Sean Fennessey:Okay. Number 30 is Exodus Gods and Kings. Number 29 is 1492 Conquest of Paradise. 28 The Dog Stars. 27 All the Money in the World. 26 House of Gucci. 25 Legend. 24 G.I. Jane. 23 Robin Hood. 22 A Good Year. 21 Gladiator 2. 20 Napoleon. 19 Hannibal. 18 Black Rain. 17 Someone to Watch Over Me. 16 White Squall. 15 The Last Duel. 14 The Duelists. 13 Body of Lies. 12 Alien Covenant. 11 Matchstick Men. 10 American Gangster. 9 Kingdom of Heaven. 8 The Martians. 7 Black Hawk Down, 6 The Counselor, 5 Gladiator, 4 Prometheus, 3 Thelma and Louise, 2 Blade Runner, and number one in the Ridley Scott 30 film all-time rankings from the big picture is Alien.

1:55:38How are you feeling? I actually thought of another question I wanted to ask you about Jacob Lorty's clothes. Go ahead. Do you think that if the world functionally like society collapsed tomorrow, would you, if you were one of the survivors and had, let's say, pretty decent access to clothing? Yeah. Let me finish. I'm sorry. do you think you would continue to iterate your style or do you think you would stick with the clothes that you were wearing and the style that you had the day the society collapsed well don't you think necessarily at some point if you survive long enough you do have to iterate because so you would change the leg cut of your jeans well at some point if you're wearing the jeans and wearing them out to the extent that jacob lordy is because you know he's doing manly stuff like fishing and feeding dogs and sawing, then theoretically, because this is not a world that is producing new things, right?

1:56:36Like he has access to supplies because he has a plane and he actually still has weapons. But he's like, he could probably go to Uniglo in Denver, but where else, you know, it's like. Right. And, but like he can get some things, but he's going to run out of, he's going to run out of the supply of vintage Levi's that fit him specifically. Right. Because I was thinking about like, OK, so that's a that's a pretty long cut of Gene. Right. For six five. You know, it's like a big and tall store situation. So he's going to run out. And I guess you have to iterate. Oh, but for me. Oh, I'm sorry. Do you have somewhere to be?

1:57:16I do. OK. For me.

1:57:20Sean Fennessey:I've just been checking my email here Continue Where do you have to go? You know, it's only my daughter's first day of kindergarten Okay, so anyway I'm just kidding I just wanted to know whether you think style is a function of consumerism or whether you would have I think it's a function of consumerism and also a function of to me it's an expression of of self an expression but I think that the ways in which I would want to express myself were I just surviving and trying to find a continuing contact supply yeah um would change and I probably wouldn't need the reinvention on such a regular basis I would shop at Dick's Sporting Goods for the rest of my life thanks for joining the big picture you guys done?

1:58:18Sean Fennessey:thanks to Jamie and Sarah for filling in in Jack Sanders' absence appreciate you guys thanks to Lucas Cavanaugh for his production support so next week I got one with you and I got one with you it's beautiful with you we're previewing the fall film slate I'm going to tell you this right now here's what I'm thinking yeah you choose five movies you can't wait to see yes and then you choose three movies you think everyone should see that you've already seen okay sound good I can do that I'll do the same beautiful you yeah we have something fun planned. Very special. We've seen the film Onslaught and it inspired an idea which I'm loosely calling the Black and Chrome Action Pack which is a very specific kind of movie.

1:58:57Think The Terminator.

1:58:59Sean Fennessey:That Onslaught is paying homage to and that Chris and I will build a kind of tribute to, a canon. Should I still see Insidious for that pod? I haven't seen it yet and I don't think that's necessary. We're going to do a 10 movies we missed later in September. Okay, Amanda can see Insidious. for me then. You know, I heard the jump scares are pretty good. I'm not against seeing it. Okay. Yeah. But I feel like our mission, which we have accepted already, will be more than enough. And soon you'll be disappearing. That's right. Into the wilderness of Europe. I'm doing... Like Jacob Elordi. I'm doing the fall preview.

1:59:33So will you not be here for Resident Evil?

1:59:35Sean Fennessey:No, I'll be back by then. She'll be back. Okay. Yeah. But will she be on the Resident Evil podcast? Well, I'd like to see it, but we don't know anything about screenings. Not a thing. Until then, we'll see you next time.

2:00:05This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. I see you.

2:00:38Sean Fennessey:Avatar Fire and Ash is now streaming on Disney+. It's the film critics are calling the best Avatar yet. Go, go, go, go! A true epic and completely jaw-dropping. This is the only purest thing in this world. Return to Pandora on Disney+. It will be an adventure for the whole family. And watch the Oscar-winning phenomenon at home. This is sick! Avatar Fire and Ash, now streaming on Disney+. Rated PG-13.