The Top 10 Garbage Love Movies, ‘Companion,’ and ‘You’re Cordially Invited’

25:56Yes. It's about having fun too. I'm really pro that. Yes, I know you are. Like, what if we could have a nice time while also having brains, you know? I agree with you. We can have it all. What do you make of Sophie Thatcher? Does her flavor hit for you? Well, I mean, her flavor was playing a robot so in this and one who like shifts in programming throughout the movie and so I thought she did a great job in that. I can't remember which one she was in Heretic. I'm sorry. Well, she was the seemingly slightly older, slightly more mature one. Oh, right. opposite Chloe East who's a little bit more sort of like buoyant and optimistic.

26:36Yes, exactly. And Sophie Thatcher and that I think is kind of her screen persona is like a little bit like taciturn but hardened and very far final girl. You know, she was in a movie called The Boogeyman where she's the final girl. She's really kind of like a Jamie Lee Curtis archetype, I would say. And she keeps getting cast and pursuing movies like this, which I think is often a tried and true pathway to getting bigger and bigger parts in Hollywood these days. There's a bit of Anya Taylor-Joy about her in her, like, there's a reason she was cast as a robot. Yes. Yeah, there's like kind of perfect imperfections though.

27:09You know, she's like, doesn't have perfect teeth. You know, she doesn't have like a perfect complexion but she's obviously quite striking doesn't she? I like her a lot I think she her skin's pretty good one thing I've been noticing is I've been watching my high definition television and 4k stuff like Severance for example I've been watching Severance this season yeah yeah yeah excellent show really like one of the first shows in a while where I'm really blown away by it I'll literally never watch it continue anyhow just the number of pores that I'm seeing on people's faces is alarming no it's like we've gone too far it's too far and this is also my notes with like whatever's going on in these camera rooms.

27:44It's just kind of like, we got to like, you know, put some Vaseline on that lens. Technology is like not keeping up or technology is not working with dermatology. Oh, interesting. Yeah. You know, and technology is not working with just like people trying to live their lives. I was noticing it with both Adam Scott and Britt Lauer on Severance too, just like very attractive, successful actors. And I was like, I can really see like all the little imperfections on their face. It's just a strange time. I was talking to a producer friend, my friend Colin, who produced Opus. And I was bugging him about a question I've had forever on film sets, which is like, is there a standby dermatologist?

28:26What happens if someone gets a zit? What do you say? And he was like, hair and makeup can usually handle it. You know, you know, and like maybe so he was like he was like, no, there was like no one standing around with like a cortisol shot, which was which is like kind of what I dreamed. You know, like when I become rich and famous. Sure. And when I'm Julia Roberts, like I will have like a derm on my rider. But listen, you know, when it's coming, what are you supposed to do? But he was like, I know, no, most of the time hair and makeup could deal with it. So I think that's what you would do. but I think with the new cameras like I you know I don't know if that's true anymore like we're getting too good so depends on who's shooting it I find the better the filmmaker the more exposure on the blemishes which is a tricky thing that's the thing about severance it's really well made so you can see things clearly right and I guess there is also some like you know maybe the filmmaker wants the blemish to be out there at some point it becomes a continuity issue which is what my question is good point but I like I agree with you You know, everyone, you know, we need to think about people and skin care and life a little bit more.

29:36Speaking of blemishes and imperfections, let's talk about your cordially invited. What a segue. Thank you. That was really good. This is the new film directed by former guest of the show, Nicholas Stoller, who's, you know, directed a lot of funny comedies over the years for getting started. Marshall, most recently, Bros. It's streaming on Amazon Prime Video right now. It stars Will Ferrell and Reese Witherspoon, two very big movie stars. Geraldine Viswanathan and Meredith Hagner and Celia Wessner are also in this movie. It's about two families who have double-booked an island destination vacation for their weddings, for Will Ferrell, his daughter, for Reese Witherspoon, her sister.

30:15And what happens when these two crazy families get stuck on an island together when they've double-booked? Will anybody fall in love, maybe? And even though opposites are attracting? I don't know. We'll find out. this movie has all of the component pieces to be good right and yet do they need to be here's the thing that's what it is it has all of the component pieces I'm like good director good movie stars and it even has funny idea and it even has many good component pieces yes some of it is entertaining and it just it's like mismatched together yes and it does really feel like the Reese Witherspoon character and family were like boiling over here is one idea for a movie and then the Will Ferrell and Geraldine Vesponathan character were like boiling over here and it was like what if we just had them fall in love at a wedding?

31:07You know, it's like we had all of the things. Almost like two scripts came together. Yes. That's kind of what I think. It's a real they forgot to put the yeast in the bread situation. Like this just didn't rise. Well, yes. I think so. I think it's mushed together. I think that Will Ferrell and Reese Witherspoon are independently very funny and good in these independent movies. Doing their archetypal thing and doing it well. My question for you about that, because I agree with you, is are we just too familiar with this archetypal performance from these movie stars? Like that's obviously a feature of being a movie star is like you have a certain kind of onscreen persona.

31:47You know, with Will Ferrell, it's like the sort of daffy, dopey, overly sincere, kind of dim but ultimately good-natured guy. With Reese, it's like kind of like hard exterior, go-getter, go-get-em, you know, woman in charge, but deep down there's a sweetness that you need to get past the exterior. No, I thought that that was the good part. I think the problem is that ultimately you're supposed to, spoiler alert, they're supposed to find love. And like, no, they don't, the characters don't make any sense. Reese Witherspoon and Will Ferrell don't have any sort of chemistry. None. Respectfully. like they are funny isolated and I like I laughed several times throughout this movie also you know Reese Witherspoon is supposed to be they're they're being honest that they shot in Atlanta and so this is all like Reese Witherspoon is from outside Atlanta and it's a there's a southern family did you relate it all to the southern family yeah I sure did I was like this is good yeah and even like I thought Celia Weston in particular who often plays this part but she's really good in this movie And when Reese Witherspoon is like talking about her career and Silly Weston is like, I just never understand a single thing you say.

32:59And I was like, wow, you know, and then like all the names and the three names and the garden and gun joke. That is a real magazine. That is like that was genuinely funny. So a lot of that stuff was very good. I mean, Will Ferrell and Geraldine Zwanathan like doing Islands in the Stream. Like that was funny. They had great chemistry, too. as father and daughter. Like, all of the bits were, like, pretty funny. Yeah. And then the actual, and even, like, the wedding stuff of the dueling weddings and, like, I'm gonna, you know, delay my ceremony as long as possible by reading Dr. Seuss. And then there's, like, funny, funny stuff.

33:42Yes. But, like, the basic, we just smushed all the, the basic structure of the movie just didn't make any sense. The romance doesn't work as well. And we're talking about this because this is basically like a slapsticky Will Ferrell, Reese Witherspoon, like Stoler set piece comedy movie. But it is about love and it needs love to make sense. And of course, the people who are like getting married or maybe not the right people who can be getting married. But the people who hate each other, people who really love each other, tried and true convention and Hollywood romantic storytelling. but um i it raises some funny questions about like is it better for a streaming movie to have big stars and then you're like that was a cool time passer with characters like figures who i like or is it better if a streaming movie is like maybe a little bit better but not as relying on the fame and the recognizability as much because we kind of get we're getting two versions of that right now we're like oftentimes the most popular movie on netflix it'll star two people i'm like who are those people?

34:44And it's like, well, they were on the Outer Banks for three seasons. Right. That's why this is the most popular movie in America. And then there's this where I'm like, in 24 of the last 25 years, this movie would have opened in July and made$78 million? Right. Also, maybe would have been noted in a way that made slightly more sense. Very good point. Once again, you are standing up for the executives. Thank you very much. These creatives have run amok in Hollywood. I'm just like, you know, some of this just didn't make sense with respect, but that's okay. Yeah. I prefer to have the stars doing funny stuff and being themselves, even if it doesn't come together because the randos in, like the randos don't cut it often in movies.

35:34I tend to agree. And I find myself especially watching all of this, you know, often aimed at women, like streamer content where they haven't spent enough money on production and costume and you know, whatever design. So everyone, nothing looks as good as it should. And I'm just like, where did they find these people? And particularly these men. And this might just be like a me and a Gen Z issue where like, once again, like children wake up, you know, but just like wake up. Like you are all just like walking around asleep. but there's just like a real lack of charisma and we have a lot of listeners who are part of that generation and and those people are on our frequency and they're dialed in and I love you guys and I would say to you just like gently nudge your have one cup of coffee yeah yeah it's okay to have one cup or don't and then don't be a performer you know like both are fine yeah but But I, so all the randos, like the people that they keep finding just like are, are not there.

36:44And I noticed the cost savings. Shall we put it that way? This is obviously. Companion actually does this. Like Companion has a twist on this in a way where for a long time I was, you know, I was like, where are we finding these people? Who are these people? Yeah. Yeah. And, and they're the right people. There's a smart twist on that. I completely agree. There's actually an inside joke about that that I could explain to you, but I would spoil part of the movie that I would tell you off mic. That makes it even funnier, honestly. So, yeah. This movie I thought was really deeply mediocre, but I didn't hate it.

37:18And I think I tend to hate a lot of the straight-to-streamer movies where I'm like, this is a real waste of time. And this was a time passer. Right. So, it's not so bad. I chuckled. You know? I have a big relationship to Will Ferrell, though. And I just want more for him. And he did something very funny this week where he basically said F you to the Academy for not nominating Will and Harper, which was very amusing. And he's just a significant part of my adult life as a movie fan. And, you know, this is okay. It's okay. Reese Witherspoon is also important to me. I guess this is like slightly better than some things she's done.

37:52Yes. Better or worse than The Morning Show? Way better. Okay. And, but like, not ultimately as like avant-garde as I think that The Morning Show unintentionally is. You know, like we are reaching new levels in something over at The Morning Show. I won't be watching. I'll keep letting you know. For what Severance is to you is The Morning Show to me. But this was more enjoyable, I think. She looks fantastic, by the way. I was literally like Reese Witherspoon, you know, like age, you know, workout, whatever. Like, what do I have to do? It's called the substance, Amanda. Well, she looked, no, but she looks, you know, like appropriate, like she looks her age-ish, but like the best version of her age.

38:40She's a multi, multi-millionaire. I do understand that. I understand she has access to treatments and resources that I do not. Some dark arts, perhaps. She's using them prudently. She looks great. Yeah. Neither of us saw the movie Love Hurts, which is another movie that technically qualifies for this, but I had just been told by a great number of people that it's not very good. Right. And I'm looking at the reviews. This is the new film starring Kiwi Kwan and Ariana DeBose that comes to us from 87 North. Right. Which is the company that brought us The Fall Guy and John Wick. And I guess 87 North didn't make John Wick, but David Leitch, who is the founder of that company with his wife.

39:16And they made Nobody and they made Atomic Blonde. And so, you know, you know, there's going to be some really good hand to hand combat and fight choreography in this movie. Apparently, the story of the movie itself, the actual plot is barely there. So we're not covering Love Hurts. We are covering Love Me. I went to see it. You told me to. I can't believe you went to see it. You told me to go see it. I appreciate you going to see it. Listen, like I said, I have obligations and I meet them in order to provide dentistry for my children. Great. I'm happy to hear it's not your passion for cinema or your friendship with me.

39:51Only one of them has teeth right now. But, you know, any day now, we're hoping he's doing his best. Okay, any day now. One day, the one who has teeth will lose those teeth. Sure, I know. And then more will grow back. So I'm like, why do we really have to take him to the dentist right now? But that's another thing about how I think dentistry is a scam. No. At least preventative. This is dangerously into the black-pilled zone as soon as you start talking. You especially should not talk about dentistry. you have a party of one in your mind I'm just like if there is something wrong and there is pain you can help me but like I'm not gonna like just go to have you use an electric toothbrush on me and insult me you know and then charge me money for it this is one of those like Amanda's so crazy I love her opinions where it's like no people like go to England that's my take on this see what happens alright love me I saw this movie 12 months ago at Sundance I'll be remembering it off the top of my head based on that viewing because I will not be watching it a second time.

40:47It's written and directed by Sam and Andy Zuccaro. One of the biggest reasons why I think it's worth discussing here is that it stars Steven Yeun and Kristen Stewart. Yes, it does. Two of the most interesting, exciting, I don't know, not quite young actors, but successful, interesting actors. You don't need to be rude. Well, you're trying to drag the 30-year-olds over the line with you. How old are they? They're 37? You know what? It's like the grown-ups are talking. I need the children to just sit and, you know, wait. They don't play humans in this movie. Well, I mean, that's the question, isn't it, Sean?

41:17Thank you, Amanda. That is the question. They play a buoy and a satellite. I'm trying to be productive. I'm trying to not be like— It's okay to hate the movie. I want to talk about it. No. I found it very irritating. It is very irritating. I'm with you on this. They play a buoy and a satellite in a post-apocalyptic world. And they are a sort of artificial intelligence that is able to exist in a world where there are no humans. and they build a bond in this desiccated world and they learn what life was like on Earth together because I guess the internet has documented everything and so they can read about it and watch videos and they eventually...

41:56The cloud is still alive. The cloud is alive, right? Which is why you should put everything in the cloud so that one day a buoy can learn about you and then come to represent you in a love affair with a satellite that looks and acts like Zach. Think about the possibilities here. Sign up for the cloud. Okay. sign up for face ID. No. I have to get a new phone, but I'm like, am I going to be able to just use a passcode still? I don't think so. I honestly didn't go to the store because I was like, they're going to try to put all this bullshit on my phone and I don't want it. Okay. But I'm running out of storage.

42:27Hard to believe. Good luck to you. This movie is incredibly bold. Takes a lot of chances in how it tells its story. I think it features actually two kind of interesting and very odd performances from the stars because they're trying to meet the moment of the big ideas of the movie, which is sort of like, what is consciousness? What is existence? What is, and what is love? What is a relationship? What does it mean to be connected to someone or something? All of which I think is like rich material for a movie. And yet I did agree with you. I found this movie quite annoying. Well, one problem with it is that for, well, a couple of things.

43:03For half the movie, they're, they're voice performances and that is difficult. and especially this type of sort of like evolving performance because this buoy and this satellite are learning how to be human in real time. So there are shades to what they're doing and Steven Yen and Kristen Stewart are really good at that and really good at acting. But you still only get to see these two great actors for like 40 minutes. The rest of the time, there's sort of like an animated fake YouTuber style. And then, you know, the way that they are learning, quote how to be human is from leftover social media so then for a while it becomes this sort of like half-baked like treatise on what is social media and what does it mean to us and how do we express ourselves and like look at these babies laughing that was really cute I liked it when the babies are laughing and it's one of those things that is a continuing problem in movies that try to say something profound about social media, which is that the social media itself is more profound than whatever you have to say about it in your other movie.

44:13Like, it's not insightful, and it's just sort of annoying watching your montage. Yeah. It's interesting, too, that both of these movies, this movie and Companion, are both AI movies, but they're not movies at all about the evils or dangers of AI. Right. In fact, they have a kind of empathy for AI, at least the way that they're framed in the story. And they're not meant to be taken, you know, seriously. It's not like this is not the representative point of view of the filmmakers. But I wonder if these movies were made in different times, if they would have a different energy around some of these ideas.

44:44It's funny that, you know, while this has become such a hot debated topic in Hollywood in particular over the last 18 months that these two movies have hit. And they're sort of like, maybe this robot is the hero. You know, maybe this robot is more decent than the corroded soul of this beta cuck or of this planet that has been abandoned by humanity because they destroyed it. Just notable aspects of it. Love Me, I think, was ultimately not very successful. Yeah. I mean, I didn't really take away anything about social media, the world at large, or, like, love, I guess, besides, like, I don't know, like, what was I supposed to learn about what it means to be human?

45:25I think that there was a couple things in their performance when things are kind of falling apart for them that felt more like a classic 70s movie about like the difficulties of a relationship that I thought were kind of interesting. Yeah. I would have liked more of that. But first of all, it was like very sexist because the Steven Yeun character is just like the person who can build a nice world and is like, I know what water is. And Kristen Stewart is then finally like, yeah, isn't water amazing? But like she just has to be chastised into. Go off, queen. Well, I mean, if you want me to like learn something from the movie, that's what I'm learning.

46:01Right. Is that like only the man like can knows how to live a pure life that can like find water. or whatever. Absolutely. So that sucked. I'll tell you quickly about Hard Eyes which I did see which also fits the bill here. Hard Eyes is I guess the horror movie of this month. A lot of examples of these kinds of movies. We've got an action movie. We've got kind of a sci-fi thriller. Everybody loves a tie-in. Yeah, we do. We've got to sell this stuff. I don't remember having like multiple tree movies for Arbor Day. You know, like this is what is it about Valentine's Day? Well, you do though. You guys really celebrate the holidays in your house.

46:36We do. You know, because it's like Like, you just got to have something to orient around. Yeah. And I remember Eileen explaining that to me. Like, we still have the leprechaun that you guys got us for St. Patrick's Day. Yeah, you're welcome. Like, several years ago. Even though I don't respect St. Patrick's Day. That's between you and your people. Yeah. And I just— Well, that's the problem. It's the people who are not my people. I just showed up— Who are making a mockery. I just showed up with some cupcakes and took home a stuffed leprechaun that Knox still likes. But we are celebrating that because, you know, it's like gives your kids something to look forward to.

47:05It does. You know? And all human brains are like that, not just children. You're right. I would not recommend any children watch Heart Eyes. Okay. Which is... Look at you. You will not be just moved from the track. No. You can't break me. This is why this works. This is why this works. You know, I am... I can only go in one direction and you can't go in any direction. Heart Eyes is a horror movie directed by Josh Rubin. It's a pretty talented horror filmmaker. He's made a couple of movies. Scare Me and Werewolves Within stars Olivia Holt, who I'd never seen before, but I think was also on one of those Netflix or Amazon series.

47:37And Mason Gooding, who you may recall from the recent Scream reboot movies. Jordana Brewster makes an appearance in this movie. Devin Sawa. Disney Channel. Disney Channel. Okay. Kicking it. Disney Channel original movie, Girl vs. Monster. Hell yeah. And Disney Channel original series, I Didn't Do It. I Didn't Do It. Yeah. Interesting. That was also O.J. Simpson's biopic. She was on Runaways. Was that a... that was like an MCU thing? Yes. Soft MCU. It was like on free form. Okay. She's also a singer and she's had some voice roles. Interesting. She's a pretty good lead in this movie, which is like, I think a perfectly adequate slasher with a sense of humor about a crazy killer.

48:24I love a holiday themed slasher movie. You know, we talked a lot about them with Eli Roth back when he was on the show for Thanksgiving. This is a tried and true format. In this case, Mason Gooding and Olivia Holt play co-workers who are mistaken for lovers by this crazed killer. So it's like a kiss cam situation. Well, I think they kiss. I think the premise is they kiss because she runs into her ex. So she's like, kiss me so I can make him jealous. Oh, sure. And then that leads to shenanigans. And there's like a little bit of rom-com-iness to this movie. Great. Plus people getting stabbed in the head with a knife.

49:01That sounds cool. Which for me is lovely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something I enjoy seeing at the cinema. And I thought this movie was pretty good. Great. That's pretty much all I have to say about it. I mean, it's... Oh, Devin Sawa's in this? He is. Wow. Who is also, obviously, I'm sure, lives in your heart forever. Hugely important. Now and then and Casper the Friendly Ghost. Yes. Like, if you know, you know. I think also his work in, you know, Final Destination and a lot of other... I'm sure that's great. You know, the Eminem video, Stan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is really important. Obviously, he's an icon.

49:29And it's nice to see him in this movie. Jordana Brewster, she appears in the worst movies ever made. The Fast and Furious franchise. You couldn't even get it out. You couldn't even get the franchise out because you don't believe it. You don't believe it's the worst franchise ever. It destroyed movie culture. It is literally, because we didn't have to do nine versions of those kinds of movies. You want to do it for the interconnected universe is fine. Fast, fucking terrible. They drag the safe. You know, the rock punches Vin Diesel. I don't know what else to tell you, dude. I agree. Don't tell me anything else.

49:58Okay. Here's what I'll tell you about. garbage love. There we go. You found it. I want some sort of like bell or thing. You know, like every time you nail it, you can just be like ding. Yeah, it's really, really good. You know, we can just like start cutting. Can we get a chiron here? It's really very gifted. I got a college degree so that I could make a button for Sean to press when he does a good segue. No, I'd like to press it. We're all monkeys, guys. Oh, you want to press it. I want to press the button. Yeah, we're all monkeys. That's what I'll do with my college degree. So you came up with the idea of doing Garbage Love for this episode, which I thought was a great idea.

50:34And when you said it, here's what I thought. And tell me if you agree with this. I wrote down it's a specific brand of genre movie utilizing the framework of classic romance stories, but usually in a craven bid to get women to come see genre movies. Is that right? Yes. This is a perfect definition because once you put it in that way and we made the list, I was like, it is crazy how many of these movies I've seen, even though they are and you isolated three categories like the horror romance action love and sci-fi sci-fi sensuality which is such a gross word but it's like wow I mean I've seen so many of these movies because I will go and put up with this shit if you have and I think it is a little bit like the romance framework but it is also if you're doing a love story then you gotta have two stars who you recognize so and two people so you don't have a lot it's fewer randos right we want to see them together yeah right it's like it's fewer good movies but almost all of these films star people who you would go to a movie to see interesting so do you have a preference out of horror action and science fiction that you prefer here I think the action I also think those are like the most successful They're certainly the biggest of the movies.

52:00Yeah, and I guess the horror ones, some of these are good in their own ways, but it's just kind of less of what I'm into. The action romance can, or, you know, romantic action movie can tip into rom-com as well. It can be funnier because a lot of the action scenes can be the sort of winking action that you hate or you can build comedy around them. the sci-fi ones are like really really really ponderous they are you know and there are a lot of examples of this i barely scratched the surface on this because it's always like if you were stuck in space with only one other person right right would you be able to discover love in an undiscoverable time yeah and like some of the sci-fi stuff is like well we'll do like Like fake deep philosophy for the boys and some like romance for the girls.

52:54So there's also. Yeah. Little Solaris, little Casablanca. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, there's probably also one, I think fantasy films don't qualify for this because they already have like the romances baked into that genre. Yeah. So this is the number one example of this in the culture right now is Outlander, which is a TV show, a long running TV show on stars. my father and his wife are huge fans of this show for reasons that are fascinating to me because this has nothing to do with anything my dad has ever liked but I hear he's like you caught up on Outlander I'm like I'm served not seen one minute of one episode but those and obviously romanticy is a huge it's like the category in fiction right now that shit is so wild yes it's so popular but it hasn't are they gonna make like the dragon fucking movies have they Mallory and I were just talking about this I think so it's like oinks is that but that's a different I mean there's there's a lot of different like drive and fun but it hasn't really hit films right well which is interesting because you think that's a great place to tell these stories not these janky TV budgets where they can only kind of sort of do right some of the fantasy elements Outlander is in pure fantasy it's you know it's more of like a historical yeah yeah but the there's just not a lot of those to go into yeah that is another subcategory that I didn't like quite think fit but there are a lot of historical dramas and like what I would describe as like dad core movies that then do also fold in a romance in order to develop the character and or I suspect hold the attention.

54:31I will find you! Love you! Marry you! Exactly. That's Last of the Mohicans. Which one do you want to talk about first? You like sci-fi the least. I think so. Well, it's not that I like it the least. It's just that it gets so weird so fast. And you threw one here that I genuinely laughed out loud when I was reminded of the existence of this movie, which is called In Time, starring Justin Timberlake and Amanda Seyfried. I don't know anything. I mean, I saw this movie in the theaters. like and it's and it's shot in some sort of like boring futuristic you know it's like a steampunk era movie and there are a lot of watches and like otherwise I don't understand I don't remember the conceit the conceit is that time is currency and that you have a certain amount of time to live and that that is represented on your your forearm your wrist yeah and the Justin Timberlake character is constantly trying to buy more time to stay alive.

55:36I don't remember much more. It's notable because it's written and directed by Andrew Nichol, who also wrote and directed Gattaca. And he is one of the classicists of sci-fi sensuality. He's done a lot of different kinds of movies, but those two movies to me represent the absolute heart of like, do you want to go see a romance between Ethan Hawke and Uma Thurman and also learn about the futuristic devastation? One is a cool genre movie and one is garbage love, you know? In Time is garbage. Gattaca is cool. In Time stinks. Yeah. So that is part of it. For garbage purposes. Right. As soon as you said In Time, I thought of a contemporaneous film, The Adjustment Bureau.

56:19Yes. Which again, all I remember. So it was Emily Blunt, Matt Damon, John Slattery. And they wear hats for like time travel. and they are they're adjusting are they like insurance people in the future I don't really know but at some point John Slattery is like chasing Matt Damon and Emily Blunt with hats and they are in love and they have to like get away to save the world Matt Damon's character learns that he is facing the powerful agents of capital F fate itself and glimpsing the future laid out for him must either accept a predetermined path that does not include the ballerina Elise played by Emily Blunt or else defy capital F fate to be with her.

57:04Crazy movie. Absolutely crazy movie. Absolutely going in the garbage. Yeah, Matt D. and Emily Blunt. Like, 2011 or something? Like, they were really powerful. At the absolute height of the Damon, like, this guy does not miss. Like, every movie he makes rocks. And he made the Adjustment Bureau, which isn't bad. But it's not good. It's not good. How do you feel about About Time? Which one is that? That's the Donald Gleason and Rachel McAdams. The Richard Curtis movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, did I cry. But Rachel McAdams is also in The Time Traveler's Wife. She is. Yes. Okay. So it's... Someone should have stepped in and done something about that.

57:41Because how can you possibly keep these movies straight? I don't know. I absolutely wept during about time, but was like really mad about it. Okay. Can you remember the premise of the movie? So Bill Nighy's in it someone's dying and goes back to like see their family but they know they're dying but they're like reliving their life as if they're like trying to give more time or something. So it's like I remember it being like very grounded time travel and very like sentimental family and Richard Curtis is a very talented filmmaker especially at just like manipulating your emotions and making you cry over complete bullshit which is like what love actually is and is also So Love Actually is like a different, I guess, it's not really a romantic comedy, but I guess it would be garbage rom-com.

58:32More of a crime film to me. Like a crime against humanity. I cry every time. Yeah, I'll bet you do. So, you know, I'm just like, I'm like really angry about it. But what are you going to do? They start doing the Beast Boys. One of the worst things in that movie is that there's like a super hot woman that works with Hugh Grant. And they're like, she's too fat. And it's like, this woman is hot. Like, what are we talking about? Well, I mean, it's fine because they end up, he does, the prime minister of England does end up manipulating foreign policy in order to make out with his assistant at the children's Christmas pageant in which Emma Thompson's child plays the second lobster.

59:07I've seen this movie so many times. I can't talk about love, actually. I can't on the pod. This is more than I even wanted to do. Emma Thompson crying to Joni Mitchell because she found out that Alan Rickman cheated on her with another assistant. Yeah. Like, just incredible acting. I don't have a segue. I need you to get back on track, please. Richard Curtis, about time. So I just remember that, you know, you gotta go back in time because you love your family or something. That's not nice. I love my family. Donald Gleeson's father, Bill Nighy, tells him, I think at near the end of his life, that the men in this family can time travel.

59:45They can go back and they can make changes. That's the premise. And so in doing so, he goes back and he falls in love with a girl who's played by Rachel McAdams. But that still doesn't mean that just because he has these powers, he can control everything. And so there are some realizations about fate, destiny, love, the power of choice. Okay. Two great actors. Yeah. Richard Curtis, real hit or miss for me personally. some good ones some not so good ones I like this one I think it's pretty good it's really weird that it's four years after the time traveler's wife I have not revisited it because I'm looking more for like you know blunt force sentimentality okay than you just want to be told I am a woman staring at a man telling him that is one of the best rom-coms of all time Notting Hill is really important okay absolutely just fuck off okay I did immediately think about Passengers as soon as we said Carbon Club.

1:00:39This was my first thought. This is like one of the worst movies ever made. And everyone was sure that they just like had it locked down, right? And it's like Chris Pratt and Jennifer Lawrence are, again, I didn't Google any of these. So this is just fun me recapping what these movies are about. They're astronauts or they're like, you know. Space travelers. Space travelers. They're going to like start new life on some planet or Mars or there's like, there's a greenhouse. So maybe they're just living on the station. I don't really remember, but they're supposed to be like, they're in cryosleep or whatever for a while.

1:01:15And is there like an accident? And so like someone wakes up and then he wakes her up. And then they're together, but like other bad things happen and they can't grow the garden or something. And I don't know. for retaining employment once again um I you remember that garden right yeah the whole you know the big nasty twist for anybody who doesn't want 2014's passenger supposed for them is you know that he doesn't tell her that he woke her up oh and he wasn't supposed to wake her up right okay and she didn't want that and so she gets mad at him because then they're doomed to a fate together right and alone at the same time and then ultimately they come to learn that they do in fact love each other these are two people with no chemistry yeah I think this is like a really hot script.

1:02:05And honestly, on paper, I'm like, this rocks. This is what movies should be. Yeah. You know, I think it was Morton Tilden was the director. He's coming off of the Benedict Cumberbatch movie about code breaking. What's that film called? The Imitation Game. The Imitation Game. That is a family holiday crowd pleaser. Okay. Absolutely. Whatever you say. One of the last remnants of the Harvey Weinstein era. Salute to you for shouting it out. Sorry that my in-laws and I both liked it. Okay. Passengers is in. I think about time is in I think time traveler's wife is in I think all these movies are just like in time and adjustment bureau have to be in in you know Gattaca Vanilla Sky these movies are a little too good for this in my opinion Palm Springs you put on here too good and also rom-com but it's not garbage it's just good but it is the case of a rom-com sci-fi movie yeah but it because it's Groundhog Day sure but I think Groundhog Day is also first a rom-com and then Oh, so you think if a movie is first a rom-com?

1:03:04I think that's its primary genre. Oh, I like that. Okay, thank you so much. That's a good call. Thank you, thank you. Did you ever see Seeking a Friend for the End of the World? Is that the Aubrey Plaza? No, Keira Knightley. Oh, I did. And Steve Carell. Yes, it did. Yeah, not good. Not successful. No. But kind of in this zone. What's the Aubrey Plaza Mark Duplass one? Safety Not Guaranteed? Yes. That's sort of. Jake Johnson as well. There's time traveling in that, right? There is, yes. That is like, that's the movie that got Colin Trevorrow the Jurassic franchise. That Jurassic World film we were talking about earlier.

1:03:38Did he make that or he got fired from that and then made the Book of Henry? No, he made the first one. He got fired from Star Wars. Oh, okay. He was supposed to make, I think, the Rian Johnson Star Wars movie. The Last Jedi? Or maybe the third film. Oh, okay. No, he was supposed to make The Rise of Skywalker. The third film. Well, that turned out great. you know so they switched back to JJ there on that one anyhow okay let's pivot to action are Paul Meskel and Gracie Abrams still dating Bobby let's just have our Gen Z check in I'm glad you asked I'm not the man I was just told yesterday that they are not by Magdalena who we work with oh okay well now who's Gen Z you know who Gracie Abrams is or isn't dating there is a very specific reason for this that I cannot reveal okay wow because it is related to work that should not be revealed transpiring at the ringer how's that He's the Segway king and he's the teaser king.

1:04:33Okay. Love. Action. Yeah. Should this be called love action instead of action love? Sure. Okay. Help me out here. Fall guy. But I like the fall guy, but I know what you mean. It's got a little whiff of garbage. Yeah, but... It's a little garbage-y. I mean, the other examples, this means war, shotgun wedding, which honestly is like another straight to Amazon rom-com with some elements that I chuckled at. Shout out Lenny Kravitz. Lost City, Ghosted. Oh, The Lost City. I forgot about that. Yeah. Good call. Yeah, Ghosted stinks though. I won't even put it on any list. That movie stinks. But it was trying to do this.

1:05:13It was. Good call. I think Mr. and Mrs. Smith is too good for this. The Lost City is a great call. Okay. Because it's like definitely not bad. Yeah. Pretty entertaining. Yeah. Pretty janky. Yes. But hit its marks. People liked it. They went to go see it. big movie stars premise is goofy but good enough Fall Guy is like right on the edge okay I mean like we could do it I think that this means war is too rom-com a terrible movie but interesting okay anything else more recent vintage that has these elements because it feels like these movies in particular are kind of all riffing on lethal weapon but they actually just replaced Danny Glover with a blonde lady right yeah what was that I mean Back in Action is like the family version of this.

1:06:00It is. It is. Also stinks. It does. Yeah. It's not so much about love as it is about the nuclear family. But that's what they're iterating on that. You're right. It's a subset of that for sure. These movies are not good. Yeah. It's tough. I mean, the sick delight that Chris and I get out of, say, like, you know, trash special ops. Right, right, right. A man with an earpiece is being told like, kill, kill, kill. And we're like, fuck yes. Kill that guy. I got, I was delighted in my own way by Fall Guy. Fall Guy was fun. Fall Guy, but also Lost City. Yeah, these are fun. And even like, I mean, Shotgun Wedding is not going in, but I like that they, the streaming, you know, for the streaming category, it was a pretty good version of that.

1:06:49Okay, okay. I like that. Now, now horror. Yeah. I mean, Twilight. Twilight is the most important movie in Garbage Love, I think. Yes. Because as much as these movies have a huge fandom, they're not good. They're not actually good. Twilight? The first one's good. Is it? Yeah, the Catherine Hardwick, thank you. Thanks, Bob. I mean, it's like a teen romance. But there's your caveat. No, but it's good. Listen, teens have feelings too. We don't always accept them at the table. you know because the yeah they gotta wake up right exactly they gotta wake up have a cup of coffee they gotta listen to their elders but you know the people who loved Twilight when they were teens are like 34 now you know this is not we've come a long way what are you talking about bro I'm not 34 yet well not just you you're not the only person what year did Twilight come out it's a good question 2010 2009 no earlier than that I think 2006 2008 yeah 2008 I was like young 20 So 2008, yeah.

1:07:53If you were 18 when you saw Twilight, you're 34. Sure. Turning 35. Damn. You know? Well, I mean, sometimes that's a new box you got to check. Yeah, so if you're a... You know, 35 to 39, welcome. 35-year-old man or woman looking at us, movie podcasters, and saying Twilight is deeply important to the American canon of cinema, to you I say no. In this context, absolutely. Just so you know, we will have now a new audio drop of you saying Twilight is good and Twilight is an important piece of this American canon. Twilight is the most important movie. Twilight is deeply important to the American canon of cinema.

1:08:35Put it right alongside my litany of brilliant segues and me saying I'm the Reed Richards of the big picture. Right. So here's my question because Twilight is obviously one of the first things that I thought of. but aren't all vampire stories love stories i think they're all sex stories well this is about sex too and not really about love well well it's about it's about love but also not being allowed to have sex and like really wanting it which is interesting also every vampire story that i understand well maybe then maybe it's like twilight three and four and she like becomes a vampire so they can fuck.

1:09:15What's like Breaking Dawn? Remember when they were dropping like Bon Iver and Licky Lee on the soundtracks of these movies? These movies are insane. Dakota Vanning is like the Italian vampire queen. So crazy. Yeah, bro. What is that baby named? Renesmee. Yeah. And Michael Sheen is cooking in these movies. Some of the worst CGI ever made for the baby. It's so, so, so bad. It's worse than when they just, when Clint was like, here's this doll, you know? It's worse that they actually try to make the baby look real in the CGI. Hold on. Time out. Time out. Time out. Let's get this right. So Renesmee, the baby.

1:09:53No. That was our first choice for Alice, but our next-door neighbor's baby is Renesmee. Is Renesmee the product? Does Kristen Stewart have her... Is she conceived before or after Kristen Stewart, a.k.a. Bella, becomes a vampire? Before. Before. and then Bella critically is dying as she's giving birth and they turn her right because she can't get but so then how do they arrange the having sex like between a vampire and a human because like the whole thing is like he's so powerful that they can't buck because like he would break her this is when Stephanie Meyer really started punting yeah yeah yeah but so but so how do they work around that they go on like their honeymoon and they're like Edward's like I've been training for years to show self-restraint And yet still she comes out of it worse for wear is what I'll say.

1:10:45Oh, so it like gets a little kinky. Oh, interesting. Man, these looks are fucked up. Yeah. And I was just in sixth grade art class. Like, let me read another one, you know, keep them coming. Stephanie Meyer. Okay. And so then, so she's like, so the child is conceived. She's like a special human vampire dog. And so is that why the werewolf can like picks her? does he pick humans or does he pick vampires or you know what I mean? No, that part is totally random but that is why the Dakota Fanning Volturi Italian clan are pissed because they're like we don't like half human half vampire that's bad.

1:11:23Are there other examples in history? Yes, they just they kill them they get rid of them. Oh no. Okay, but so but then then Taylor Lautner shows up and he's like I love this baby I love this I love this baby is my soulmate. this is a baby this CGI goblin that's a baby it's so funny that we're like here this one choice the filmmaker made in The Brutalist is a hugely problematic and completely destroys the film where it's like Renesmee is gonna get married to a giant wolf man who's 40 years her senior and it's one of the best movies ever it's fucking stupid I will only defend the original Twilight as a good movie so Twilight is not in but the all like 14 other Twilight movies are in oh as garbage love yeah okay but so anyway you're this Breaking Dawn part one is the most garbage love that's when they get married okay that's when they had the needle drops you know that's oh okay that's the one there we go I accept that but so Breaking Dawn part one they split it into two parts what are we doing we took all of Zach's young cousins to see every installment of this at Thanksgiving because they released them at Thanksgiving oh god fun for the whole family but I think that after they ended then like we got to take his cousins to see Lady Bird so that was nice I remember that too one year we had to take them to see Allied which does fit into garbage garbage espionage garbage dad well garbage dad cinema garbage oh but is it is it garbage love Allied well that is if we're doing if there's like a world history one does the love come first in Allied no I don't think so you think it's the spy stuff yeah I think I'm with you Underrated, actually.

1:13:05I revisited it when we did the Zemeckis episode. By the way, Here is streaming on Netflix right now. It was number one on Netflix for like a hot minute. I think it's good. I watched it again and I was like, this movie is good. I don't know what people are talking about. I have to watch it before. Honestly, it made me cry. I think it's really deep and interesting. I know people think it's like the worst movie of all time. I can't really argue with them, but I really do think it's good. Okay. I don't recall thinking Allied was good. The revisit, when I was less worried about why it looked so modern and fake.

1:13:30Right. It revealed some quality. Okay. Just putting that out there. But I don't think it's garbage love. Yeah, because it's like Cold... Anyway, vampires. Cold Mountain's not garbage love. No, but it's garbage... History. Yeah, and there is like a romance element. Garbage Civil War is a great idea for the show. Coming up next, Ryan Russillo, Garbage Civil War. Let's do it. There's Garbage World War II. Oh my God. One thing I want to do... I know you've got some garbage plans too. I really want to do Garbage Scorsese for the Alto Knights the new Barry Levinson movie oh my god the Scorsese ripoffs he's excited about that film yeah I mean it looks horrendous but I'm into it but my dad is just like wow Barry Levinson directed a movie with Bobby De Niro who he still calls Bobby doesn't know him that sounds like me that's something I might do I got a lot of text messages about that he could provide his defense with Emilia Perez I told him that I shared his opinion and he was like Like, oh, I didn't know whether that.

1:14:31I was like, I'm not sure that was meant for public consumption. And I was like, well, dad. That's what it's like being in the blast radius. Your grandchildren need Dennis. You can't reveal anything to Amanda now. I just text her something with some vulnerability. And she's like, I'm reading these vulnerable thoughts aloud to the listeners of this show. Your dad's on Front Street. Who else can you reveal? My friend Molly's dad who loved Conclave. Oh, yeah. That was dope. We agree with that. Conclave is great. Okay. A couple other horror installments. Vampires. I think they're all about sex. I think Twilight is a romance, ultimately.

1:15:05Okay. And I think vampire stories are often like weird metaphors for getting syphilis. Yeah. Okay. You know, where it's like the blood is traded and now you have my disease. Right. You know, it's like a different kind of a thing. Okay. All right. Not all of them. There are some vampire love stories, of course. Right. But for the most part, they're about something different. I mean, Twilight and vampire movies are also about, they're both about repression. but you know. Interesting. Garbage repression? I mean, I would do really well with that one. It's just all American cinema. Warm Bodies, which is zombies.

1:15:38Nick Holt, our guy. Our guy. And Teresa, what's her name? Come on. She's a good actress. Australian. Palmer. Teresa Palmer. That movie's pretty good. It's like maybe a little too good. Okay, for garbage? Yeah. I mean, this is the thing where these are all genre movies that are so close to the like the genre is in fact garbage love you know it's like not a bad version of it it is just the thing itself like all vampire and even like a lot of zombie movies you know you have Bones and All in here which is I think like a good example of a good film but inherently garbage? Well it's abusing the genre and it's like here are two teens trying to find themselves and also they're zombies or vampires I think you're right about that one because there is no movie that is about cannibals that is like high class that's right that movie is about cannibals and Mark Rylance is here and he's really creepy deeply very effective in that film I put fresh on this list did you end up seeing this?

1:16:54no Daisy Edgar Jones and Sebastian Stan oh yeah also a cannibal film Really? Yeah. Oh. And pretty fun. People really wanted us to talk about that. I got a lot of... Did you? And Instagram reels fed me a lot of content about the two of them when that movie was out. And people were like, ooh, fresh. It's okay. I saw it at Sundance, I think, in 2022. Very, as always, very amusing. Sebastian Stan performance. Not sure Daisy Edgar-Jones quite up to the task of that movie. Nevertheless, it's pretty good. Okay. Life After Beth, which is directed by the late Jeff Beina, who just died. Right. Aubrey Plaza's husband, which is a movie that I really like, was one of the early A24 movies, if I recall correctly, but is also, I think, a zombie romance movie where Aubrey Plaza dies and comes back from the dead and confronts her boyfriend and is like, yo, I'm back.

1:17:43And he's like, I moved on with my life, which is kind of a funny movie that I really like. Again, maybe not... You're right that they're kind of all garbage because of what they're doing, but they're also kind of good. like this is the next step because every story's been told that we need to just keep smashing genres together and making them make sense. So I don't know. The Twilight movies might just occupy the entire horror stretch for us. Okay. Is there how many? 14 you said? I mean Bobby's the expert. How many Bob? Five. Five. Four books. Fourth book was split into two. Got it. Got it. At least they haven't shamelessly gone back and made like a TV series out of it.

1:18:22You know they're protecting that valuable idea for people like myself. That's going to come. I know. When will that come? Who will be the stars? I don't know. The children who won't wake up, you know? Would you put Zombieland in this horror romance? It's more of a comedy. I think it's comedy first, horror second. But it is a romance. It is. It is. My beloveds, Jesse Eisenberg and Emma Stone. Really my faves. maybe Zombieland 2 Double Tap is probably a better fit I could vibe with that that is more garbage it's a garbage-io but it's like pretty fun and I want to watch it again if you put Double Tap on right now I'd be like yeah let's watch it I would watch the Adjustment Bureau again if you put it on anytime there's a movie where if I can scream into the other room yo can you get me a Miller Lite or you say hun can you please bring the Campari over we're watching Garbage and that's not Amanda asks for the Campari from Zach that's how she does it that's actually not no I ask him to make me a proper drink he's getting really into it he got me glasses yeah they're very fancy and then now Knox knows he's like will you have a drink in a fancy glass

1:19:42hey mom how's your crippling addiction going any other thoughts this was fun this was a good one yeah Bob any additions beyond Zombieland I don't think so none that come to mind I feel like I've made my piece for Twilight yes I don't think this is not the definitive list I didn't have to go to the mat for that maybe listeners want to send some because programming reminder we're doing a mailbag on Monday on the show segue bang don't forget email us bigpickmailbag at gmail if you want to tell us some garbage love films that we forgot about maybe even a subcategory yeah don't be rude Amanda will be rude to you but you don't have to be rude to us and that'll be fun and there's like a lot happening over the weekend yes so PGA's are you going?

1:20:30no CCA's are on Friday the Critics' Choice Awards oh the rescheduled CCA's but those votes all happened before all the Emilia Perez stuff oh so like they might win a bunch of awards they can't take it back yeah so watch out for a weird CCA's on Friday and then PGA's and DGA's on Saturday night yeah you going? I'm not going you have to enter a lottery to get a ticket to the PGAs and I've never entered the lottery. And you don't get a plus one? I think you might if you win the lottery. But it's like thousands of people go. Yeah, yeah. But I assume they're like past apps and stuff, right? I believe so, yeah.

1:21:00So that would be funny. I'm not going. I told Jack Sanders yesterday, I was like, Jack, the saddest part of me wants to go live on YouTube after the PGAs and DGAs and just be like, here's what happened. It's crazy, but I'll hold it for Monday. We can talk about it then. It's a big weekend at my house, so I sort of have to... Part of the reason why. Yeah, Sunday is like roller coaster of a day. We got birthday party for the big guy. I'm hosting a child's birthday party. Yeah. And then we got the Super Bowl for the other big guy. Yeah. And the Eagles. Who's your pick for the Super Bowl? Who are you taking?

1:21:32The line's one and a half. In which direction? What does that mean? I don't know what that means. Chiefs by one and a half. Almost 10 years. Chiefs favored by one and a half. Listen, we got to protect the heart. We got to, I'm in a defensive position right now. I'm trying to make sure that everyone is okay and behaves. In your home, you mean. Yeah, and doesn't ruin my sweet son's birthday with disgraceful Philadelphia behavior. Okay. So I'm operating from like a cautious pessimism sort of thing, but I would be thrilled if Jalen figures it out. Can he? I don't know. Bob, any picks for the Super Bowl?

1:22:13I'm not going to make any picks for the Super Bowl. It's not my area of expertise. go listen to the Ringer NFL show if you'd like to hear more about that Ringer gambling show a lovely feature from Justin Charity about Kendrick Lamar that I was producing Kendrick Lamar is performing at the halftime show the Super Bowl which honestly is sick which is great can't remember the last time I was like this is actually good like I like Rihanna and I like Beyonce and everything but Kendrick is come on alright we're done Kendrick's good too but like Beyonce's Beyonce sure I just I feel like I get a lot of Beyonce that was a good show it was good I had no notes just I'm excited about Kendrick alright my pick is the Jets will miss the playoffs again next year that's that's the only pick I'm willing to make here but I can't say the same for the Mets okay let's go to my conversation with Drew Hancock now

1:23:19Drew Hancock is here with his directorial debut companion. Thanks for being on the show. Thank you for having me. Drew, there's just not a lot about you on the internet. Yeah. You've been working for a long time, but I love talking to first-time directors on the show. Sure. I always ask, what were the movies you obsessed over? How did you get interested in this world? Walk me through how you got interested in making movies. Yeah. So I'm originally from Omaha, Nebraska, and the idea of working in entertainment never crossed my mind. Like, I mean, my joke, my go-to joke is, like, I come from a family of, like, life, the board game occupations.

1:23:54Like, it's lawyers and accountants and teachers. And so I grew up in the 90s. You know, I'm 45 years old. Like, success came very late for me. But in the 90s was when I was, like, developing my taste for movies. and I, you know, very vividly remember seeing Pulp Fiction for the first time and it just blowing my goddamn mind. Like I remember being in a theater being like, I checked my watch to be like, I want there to be so much more of this movie. Like this is like, I didn't know you could do this. I don't know if this was possible. And I was under 17 at the time and I look young now and I look like I was like 10 years old.

1:24:35And so me and my friends would go to different theaters to just want to see it as many times as possible. like it turned down. Like they'd be like, no, you're too young. You need a guardian. So we would drive around Omaha, like trying to see Pulp Fiction at like a third or fourth, fifth time. And I was like bringing everyone down. I'm like, I'm so sorry guys that I look this way. But that was like my, that was like my appetizer into like, oh my God, like this is amazing. And then it was just a great time to grow up as a, as a movie lover. Like I worked in a movie theater in 1999. You know, that, that's, that, that's just, you can't beat that.

1:25:08It's the best year. Every week it would be like Magnolia, being John Malkovich, The Matrix. It was just feasting on wonderful movies. And yeah, so it never occurred to me that I could do this or that it was even attainable. It just felt like LA felt like a walled city that I just couldn't reach. And why try? But just by chance, I was on this track to do that. I was a very space cadet-y kid, and I knew I needed to do something creative. and the track I was on was like, I guess, marketing, advertising, something like business-oriented. And I went to college at Colorado State University just because my cousin went there.

1:25:45I had no interest in education. And just by chance, one summer, I took an elective. It was like editing news packages, like tape-to-tape editing, and it blew my fucking mind. Like literally, I was like, oh, my God. Like after the first class, like what is this? Like, I need to saturate myself in this and called my parents up. They're very supportive. I was like, I've been wasting my time. I need to do this. Can you, like, will you support me just going down this path? And I have very supportive parents. They're like, yes, like, whatever you want to do. Was it just the actual technological aspect of cutting that you got interested in specifically?

1:26:26But not like, I'm going to make movies. No, no, no, no, no. No, it just was like being in that room and just never wanting to leave it and just being like enamored by the process of taking clips and, you know, like putting them next to each other, you know, like scrubbing through the footage. It was, you know, we wasn't even on an Avid or Final Cut Pro, which doesn't even exist anymore. That's how I'm dating myself now. But that was the moment that was me going like, OK, I don't care, you know, how this how this happens. I don't care what I do within this universe, like whether it's like produced, direct, write.

1:27:02I knew I didn't want to be in front of the camera, but I just, I tried to cobble together a film school at a school that had no film program. And so we did have like Asian film studies classes. And so I'd take one of those. And then I discovered like the basement of our library had this like one shelf of screenplays. And so I would like every day go down there and just read like movies I still haven't seen, like this script for My Beautiful Laundrette. I've never seen it, but I read the script in college or like A Boy and His Dog, like all these scripts that just mishmash of just really weird eclectic collection because they were just probably, I don't even know why they had them.

1:27:41and yeah and as soon as I graduated from college I packed the car up and moved to LA and I didn't know anyone here except for two guys that worked their job, their entertainment job was they boxed porn at the Hustler warehouse and so that was an in, that was no in but that's the couch it could have been, yeah different career and I just slept on their couch and it's so funny the night I slept on their couch they were filming Biker Boys the movie with a Z with Kid Rock of course being filmed in the parking lot and I was like oh my god they're making movies everywhere what a town Hollywood like some like shitty apartment building on Lancashire in the valley yeah and I just PA'd for a bit and you know bought a camera and just started scurrying around and yeah what like roughly what years like 03, 04 03 I think is when I moved out here.

1:28:39And so that's why we PA'd for like the first two years, realized very quickly that if you're good at PAing, you're just going to get more PA jobs. And if you're, you know, you have to separate yourself by creating as much content as you possibly can. And so by like, you know, scrounged together as much money as I could, bought a camera and then, you know, used my friends as actors. And there was this, this, this just, you know, there's a lot of luck involved in my, or good timing, I should say, in my career. and finding this thing called Channel 101 that had just started right around the time when I was getting interested in making comedy videos.

1:29:16And it was the perfect thing to discover. And for anyone that doesn't know what that is, it was like a monthly film festival where you would make a five-minute show, like a little mini TV show, screened in front of an audience, and they would vote for their five favorites. And then the next month, if you got voted back, you'd have to make a second episode. So it was like the best thing I could find because that really became my film school because I was just making as much, just making as many comedy videos as I could. And then you would start get that instant gratification of what works and what doesn't work, which, you know, that's the closest I'll ever be to like a stand-up comedian.

1:29:57Like, you know, I wrote Companion four years ago. You know, I finished it three years ago. We shot it two years ago. I edited it one year ago and it like now I get to see it kind of being released. But, you know, channel one on one was you made, I would be making things that day and show and show it that night. And you would just like the, like, you know, I've never done heroin, but I imagine it's very similar. It was like the high of, oh my God, I got a laugh. And it just, just euphoria like kicks in and you get this adrenaline rush and you're just like, oh, I can't wait for next month. And, and, and you learn, you know, that's where I learned everything about like, you how smart an audience is, and they'll feel when a joke is being reached for, or something is too sweaty and obvious, or if you're coasting, if you get really cocky, and you're like, oh, I don't have to worry.

1:30:45You have that audience share. It was treated like a little like, almost like the Nielsen's ratings or something. You're just like, oh, I had 80 % last screening, and now I have 55%. I got to step my game up. And meanwhile, like everyone else is your age and as hungry as you and you're making things and trying to make them jealous and competing and, you know, just getting better together. And I'm still friends with a lot of those guys. And was that, were you working on Yacht Rock at that time as part of that? Yacht Rock as part of that. Part of that, yeah. So I just acted in that. Okay. I saw the documentary.

1:31:19It was fantastic. Yeah, thanks. Yeah. I was wondering like what your role was on it because I saw your name attached to it. but were you just friends with those guys at that time and appearing in the series? Yeah, you would just, yeah, you would hire each other. You would just ask, hey, would you be in my thing? Like J.D. Risner was in a couple of my shows and I was in his, I think, because Wade, who played Hall and I played Oates. I think because we just, I was short and, you know, like I had dark hair and, yeah, that was really fun. I actually got to meet Hall and Oates because of that. That was a really fun.

1:31:53How did they feel about your portrayal? Oates was great. Oates, the first thing he said to me was, you're too tall to play me. And that was like the best compliment I could ever get from anyone. I've never been called too tall. Darryl, a little trickier, you know, reputation. Yeah, and you felt it. Yeah, I'll bet. We went to the Hollywood Bowl, saw them, like however many years ago that was. And their manager was a big fan of us. And so we got to go backstage and meet them. And Oates was just like taking photos with us. And he was really nice. and then he brought Hall over and Hall was like arms folded and he was like and Oates goes he thinks you guys are making fun of us and I was like oh this is awkward this is weird hopefully the documentary assuaged some of Daryl's concerns oh I doubt it did you he was on that Bill Maher show oh I didn't see it he's just he's full of bitterness it's so crazy given the incredible success he's had anyway we're down a rabbit hole that I led us to so you're making work with Channel 101 like at that time are you thinking like i gotta start writing screenplays to be making movies do you want to work in series television like where did you see your career going well i was still trying to figure out what i wanted to do within it like i loved editing i love the editing process i love the directing process i love writing um though i never really considered myself a writer honestly um and then um yeah like i said like we were we were all at this stage where we were young and starting out in Hungary.

1:33:22And as some of us are getting successes, we're pulling each other up with us. And two of my friends created the show, Blue Mountain State, and they were looking for writers and they just asked me to write for it. And I was like, sure, I'll try it. And writing was something I did. It always felt like I would either be a director or an editor or the writing part of it was just like, oh, I would do it just to have content and I enjoyed it, but I never really thought of myself as a writer, but working on Blue Mountain State, um, that really solidified, oh, like I, I really enjoy this part of it. I, I, I'm a very introverted person.

1:34:03So I like to be, you know, in, in my office, like by myself, like, you know, turn on, like, like dim the lights and just like be in my head. I've, I love that. Um, and that's, yeah, that was the beginning of, of, um, my writing career and i and i treated it i think because i didn't really think of myself as a writer i treated it as like an experiment and that's why my imdb is just kind of a shit show it's kind of just like all every different genre every different style like kids shows animated shows because i was like oh yeah i want to i want to write everything um much to the chagrin of my agent who was like you need to develop a brand i'm like i don't care about a brand i want to learn i want to write for a Nickelodeon like Villain of the Week show.

1:34:44That sounds awesome. Let's do that. Like I'll never get that opportunity again. And so I was just taking every job as a way to just to learn. That's really interesting because I by looking at someone's IMDB can usually suss out sort of like what their goals are, how they see themselves, where they're going with their career, what their brand is. Yeah. And did not have any success with that with you. Yeah, good luck. So then And are you essentially doing that, like jumping from writing job to writing job over the course of the next 10 years? Yeah, yeah. And doing, I mean, there's big gaps in my IMDb, but I'm like doing rewrites for movies.

1:35:23I developed a show for MTV that didn't go through. So, you know, so I'm working and I'm living comfortably. I have a low cost of living and I don't have a family. So, you know, like I could be choosy as far as like I didn't have to take like the low hanging fruit. I could be a little picky based on the jobs that excited me, but still I was not getting what I really wanted to write. I've always been a gigantic fan of genre movies specifically like horror, sci-fi, thriller, any of that. It needs a robot or a serial killer or a ghost or something to get me excited. I just wasn't getting those opportunities.

1:36:05I was at a place in my career where this opportunity came. I was like, oh my God, they're rebooting Are You Afraid of the Dark? I loved that show as a kid, please. And begging the company like every day, please, let me, like, just give me a chance. I'd like, like, this is what I want to do. This is a company that knew that I like was a decent writer. I never even got a meeting about it. And that forced me to sit down and go like, what, what's going on right here? Like people recognize that I can write, but I'm not being given the opportunities to do what I want to write. I just assumed if you're a good writer, you could write whatever you wanted.

1:36:40And that's not true. You get put in a box. And it's my own fault for not having the proof. It took the pandemic for me to sit down and go, why are you creatively at least unfulfilled? And it's because I didn't have a writing sample that represented the kinds of movies I liked. And it's that 15 years of just bouncing around and not having a brand. And, you know, I, but it was all learning. It was all great. I made tons of mistakes. And so when I actually sat down to write something that reflected my voice, you know, I had an amount of confidence to get through it because there's a lot of pain involved.

1:37:24There's a lot of questioning in the process of, you know, staring at a blank page. You seem very centered and reflective on the arc of your career. Self-awareness is, I think, one of the most important qualities for someone to have. I try to constantly take inventory of my life every couple years to make sure I'm where I want to be and what I need to do to get in that place. I recognize that I feel very centered, but up here, no, it's chaos. Okay. It's crazy. There's insecurities and imposter syndrome and craziness. Well, you know, from an outsider's perspective, like I said, we have some friends in common.

1:38:09So I was aware of the fact that this movie was happening, but I didn't know anything about you. And when I sat down to watch it, I was just incredibly impressed and would not have thought that it was a directorial debut or anything like that. And, you know, in a lot of ways, it's like it's a high concept genre studio movie. and that's very unusual for an original to go right now. So like maybe you can walk me through the arc of, I guess in COVID, you wrote this screenplay and it found its way into the right hands. Like what was the, how did all of this happen? Yeah, I mean, everyone's going to hate me because there's a lot, there's so much good luck involved in this, but you know, just don't forget about the 20 years of toiling.

1:38:52It's useful to hear that first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's, you know, if you put the work in, you'll eventually get discovered. It took me a long time and I made a lot of mistakes, but I'm here now. And I feel very grateful to be here talking about this movie. But yeah, so I wrote this movie and it came from a place of like, you know, this might be the last thing I write that people read. You know, it could just, I would just think very realistically thinking. I'm in my 40s. I remember going to a Dodger game being like, is this it for me? Am I done? And I had an editor friend, a very close friend who's an editor.

1:39:30I was like, should I talk to him about pivoting to editing? I was very close to giving up. So I put all my eggs in this one basket, which was companion. And I think that's why there's so many tones within it. Because I was like, well, if I only get to make one movie, not even make, if I only get to write a movie that people take seriously, let's show them that I can do a heist movie. I can do a comedy. I can do a thriller, sci-fi, put it all in one movie and see if it works out. Never in a million years thinking I would get the opportunity to direct it, which is insane. Yeah, so I spent a year writing it and rewriting it and rewriting it.

1:40:08And, you know, the very terrible draft of your terrible draft until it got to a place where I'm like, okay, I recognize that this is good. This reflects like my voice. and the day I finished that that final that last draft J.D. Lifshitz from Bolder Light just a friend of a friend I was like oh he's having a moment right now with Barbarian I'm hearing great things about that I'll send it to him and he read it that night and called me the next day so this is 24 hours after finishing this script he's like we want to produce this and then he sent it to Roy Lee and then so 48 hours after finishing the script I had Roy Lee attached and then over the weekend they sent it to Zach Crager and he read it and like there was a brief moment where he was going to direct it.

1:40:49And so I had five producers attached within like a week of writing it, which is not something that happens ever. And I didn't think it was going to happen. This was purely a writing sample to get a job that was similar to Companion. I never thought that it would get made. So that happens and Zack is attached, but it's going to be a movie that's going to happen, his next movie, I guess, after Barbarian. and then that doesn't happen. So like what happened? How did you become the director of the movie? Yeah, so I worked with Zach closely for five, six weeks, just kind of polishing it, talking about it.

1:41:27And A Barbarian had not come out yet. And through that process, I think that because I'm very protective of my stuff, like, well, for making it, you know, like I'm not going to like just, you know, just hand it off. I'd already seen Barbarian. I knew it was amazing, but I just was like, you know, I've been burned so many times the director's kind of, you know, fucking my shit up, which it sounds awful, but it's just, it's like gut-wrenching when you have an idea in your head of what it is and then you see it executing and you're like, oh my God, like these decisions that were made, they're just, they're not coming from a place of story.

1:42:00There's just like these, you're putting all the energy in like these cool shots and that's not what this scene's about. So I just was, I was very protective in going through each scene and being like, well, how would you shoot this and whose moment is this? And he's big on POV and I'm big on POV and I don't mean like literally like how you shoot like a POV shot. I mean like every scene should like you should know whose moment it is. And so I just wanted to make sure like we were on the same page with that stuff. And I think through that process, he realized like maybe he'd be better suited as a producer and just step aside.

1:42:36And I didn't know this was happening. He was like wrestling with this. And I got a phone call from him like a couple weeks after Barbarian had come out. It might have actually been the weekend after Barbarian came out. And he was like, I'm sorry. I'm not going to direct this. But I want to stay on as a producer. I was like, okay, yeah, I understand. You can do whatever you want. And then he said, but I've talked to Boulder Light and I've talked to Vertigo. And I've gotten them permission. If you want to direct it, we think you could do it. I was like, oh, my. I didn't know the movie was going to get made.

1:43:11I didn't know that I would ever be a director. I wanted to direct. I wanted to come back to directing at a certain point because, you know, in my 20s, I directed a lot. But I never, I thought it would be, I had three ideas. I thought I would write this first idea, companion. Maybe it gets made, maybe it doesn't. Not going to direct it. Second movie, maybe it gets made, maybe it doesn't. And hopefully the third idea I can direct. I didn't, I just leapfrogged over that thanks to Zach's generosity. And yeah, like I wouldn't be sitting here if it wasn't for Craig or realizing like, like this, this would be better if I directed it.

1:43:44and it worked out for him too because weapons is awesome. Sounds like an exciting, yeah, I love Zach so that's very cool. I, that's a pretty wild story. It's so wild. Like you weren't, would you say you were, especially since you're a self-aware type, would you say you were angling or communicating like, here's my vision or here's what I would do or anything to kind of signal like in the event that Zach, you fall out like because, or is it just like genuinely serendipitous and they just believed in your vision and that's why it happened you know what i'm asking yeah no i think it's a little bit of both i think unconsciously i was like angling for it but i wasn't i you know i i've been in this business a long time and i've learned every i've lived every cliche there possibly could be about like you know working in entertainment everything from having my first job and and like thinking that the jobs will never end and like getting like this paycheck and then going like let's go to costco with all my friends and we have like fucking um grocery carts full of flat screens and Xboxes and iPads and iPhones, and that money's gone in three months.

1:44:51Like, I've lived that. So I've made every mistake you possibly could. I truly have. So when it started to seem like the movie was going to get made, I know that, like, a first-time director, that you're suddenly committing to a lower budget. It's going to be harder to get a studio interested. it just becomes a different movie. So I didn't want to stand in its way. I just wanted it to get made. So I was taking a very zen-like approach, just being like, guys, getting the movie made is the most important. That's the prime directive here. I don't care who directs it. Let's just, you know, if the best director is the one who gets this movie made, that was my kind of MO.

1:45:36So yeah, so it was a little bit of, but then, yeah, Like, just the battle scars from having seen my stuff get kind of, that sounds so pretentious, but just having it got burned. So I am very protective. And I learned, you know, very early on how to direct on the page without directing on the page. Because I learned if you put, like, close-up of a glass with, like, two ice cubes plinking in it, the director immediately just screwed yourself. because the director is going like, you can't tell me what to do and then you're not going to get a close-up. It's going to start with a wide. But if you write in like little phrases, little phrases are like the shorter the phrase, you can kind of signify tempo and you can also like, you know, use onomatopoeia and be like, clink, clink, like two glasses fall into, or two ice cubes fall into a glass and you're kind of subconsciously like planting the seeds of that's a close-up, that's a close-up.

1:46:34So like, I just want to make sure because I, I, when I write, I, every, all the blocking is done in my head. I, you know, I don't do like chase scene happens here. Action scene happens here. Like I need to figure out every punch. I need to figure out every little detail. So it's already in my brain. I need to know that, that I needed to know Zach and I were on the same page, like throughout the entire script. Yeah. It's interesting because the movie does feel very, um, it's not that it's constructed. It's very tight, you know, like it doesn't feel leaky at any point. And like a lot of, as I'm sure, you know, like many genre movies, are kind of notorious, even the ones that we love for having these kind of leaky components.

1:47:11But the movie also, it feels like a real agglomeration of a lot of influences while also being its own thing. Maybe you could talk a little bit about just the actual origin of the idea, what you were thinking of, and what you wanted to do with it. You know, every project is different, how it pops in your head. This one, I don't know why, but like the full log line, like day one popped in my head. Three couples go to, and we're going to spoil it because it's in the trailer but three couples go to a cabin in the middle of the woods. One of them finds out they're a robot going to be shut down and things become like go haywire and you know like I knew it was going to have like a horror structure where every 10 pages someone's going to get picked off.

1:47:50That just popped in my head. Like I didn't, sometimes it's a visual, sometimes it's a character, sometimes it's a scene. That was just like the full, fully baked idea popped in my head but my first instinct and this is a year and a half before Megan had come out was to make her the antagonist. It just seemed obvious. Like, you want to make the robot, like, that's going bad, be, you know, the AI gone wrong. My brain immediately went there. And so I'm starting to break the story and thinking about her journey. And I get to the scene where she shows up at the cabin with Josh and she's afraid to go inside.

1:48:26And she's feeling alienated and alone and, like, she doesn't belong and she's worried about, you know, just started tapping into, like, the first time I had made like partners, friends and families and, and I'm like, oh my God, I'm starting to relate, relate to the robot here. And at that moment I'm like, oh, could I do this? Could I make a movie where the most sympathetic character is, is a robot? The most human character is a robot. And that became the, like, like the kind of like, as soon as I had that, that's, that's when I like fell in love with it. And I was like, oh, I can tell a different story here.

1:48:56It's interesting because, um, the conversation around AI is like very, uh, noisy. and very angry at times, especially from a lot of writers' perspectives. In this movie, it's not exactly AI in the traditional sense that we talk about every day, but the what if AI gone right is a risky proposition. How did you think about that? Were you conscious of it, whether you were writing or in production on any of those ideas? Yeah, constantly thinking about how is this going to be taken? And I'm also, AI does scare me as a writer. And I toy around with ChatGPT just to see, and every week I feel like it's getting better and better.

1:49:35I dismissed it a year ago, and now I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't know. It's improving by the second, and so it does scare me. Wait until your movie comes out and then it has all that information, and then it gets to, yeah. I know. But it's a metaphor in the movie. It's representing the story. I never think I didn't do a ton of research I just needed to know if this technology could exist and when it would exist and then as far as like I didn't want to bog it down in technical details I didn't want it to be like the ex-nabakina talking about Turing tests I wanted it to be very real and like feel like characters it's like iPhone generation 5 or 6 where you just don't question it anymore that's the exciting thing about it and then the fun became you know telling two different stories The one story is Iris, and it's literally, or not literally, it's metaphorically the story of a woman realizing she's in a toxic relationship and through self-discovery takes agency and empowerment.

1:50:42And then there's the B side, and that's the Josh and his friend side, which is, it's not so overtly said in the movie, but it's what would happen if your phone looked like a human being? And how would that affect your viewing, not just the robot, but all other human beings? And there's no accident why Josh is not being affected by some of the things that are happening within the story. It's because everything's been dehumanized. Because when you look at your robot and it looks like a human, suddenly everything just kind of becomes objectified. And that was fun. I love that part. I did want to ask you about the specificity of the specs, for lack of a better word, are really, really good and really clever.

1:51:31And I hadn't quite thought of it like Iris is a phone, but that actually does make more sense that you would think about all of these different components and apps. And can you talk about just kind of like developing these very specific detailed ideas that go into building out this? Because even if you didn't research it somehow, it feels like you have designed a product that feels legible in the world. Even though the movie is a metaphor and satirical and all the things that it is. A lot of the details I was like, I haven't seen this quite done this way before. And it seems like this is what it could be.

1:52:08Yeah, I mean, I hope not. I mean, I don't know what the future is going to be like, obviously. But yeah, that's just what makes my brain tingle. I just follow—my first drafts are a mess because I throw every single idea I have, and then it just becomes refining and focusing. And so, yeah, like that's the fun stuff is to talk about like, filter everything through story, filter everything through character. And you talk to, you know, it's easier to talk to Jack Quaid about his character and his motivation if you have reasons behind it. And, you know, you're giving him like, you know, directing is not really about giving someone a directive.

1:52:48It's like giving them the guardrails. Like, you know, like it's within here and within this like, you know, here parameters, you can have as much fun as you want. And my job is to make sure you don't drift on either side. So I feel like you got some good fortune and probably expressed some good taste by getting Jack and Sophie. I guess when you did, Sophie in particular is kind of on the rise as a scream queen. It's a fascinating thing. I haven't seen this quite done this well in terms of the parts that she's picking and the projects she's a part of. And just feels like sometimes the timing just seems perfect.

1:53:20How did you get these? And obviously Jack Quaid has been doing great work for 10 years now. How did you get these two in the leads? You never know how it's going to happen. Like, I don't write with anyone in mind because I've just been heartbroken so many times when you, like, have this specific actor in your head. You're like, it has to be this character, this actor, and then they always say no, and then you're like, oh, I don't have plan B. So I kind of want the characters to feel like, I've used this metaphor, and maybe it's not quite right, but like a deflated balloon, you know? Like, it doesn't have a full shape to it, but it's, like, enough there that then you can have, hand it to an actor, and they can fill it and give it shape and shading.

1:53:54but I assumed wrongly that Iris was going to be really easy to cast and Josh was going to be really hard to cast because my thought being like it would be really hard to get a man in his early 20s, late 20s, to want to play such a toxic character because it goes into dark places. And Jack Quaid and I have the same agency, UTA, and his agent slipped him the script, and he read it before we even started casting and requested to sit down with me. And so we met for coffee. And, you know, again, the deflated balloon to me was, he needed to be, like, boyish. He needed to have a very charismatic smile.

1:54:36And he needed to be someone that, he's saying awful things from the get-go. He's saying smile, act happy. Like, there's no version of that where it's likable. But there is the most likable version of that. Like, he, you know, it needs to come across not with any maliciousness. It comes from like, you know, the Jay Baruchel school of like, I'm doing this because I'm oblivious. Like, I don't know any better. Like, I'm just like a man child. And sitting across from him, I'm like, oh, my God, this is perfect. Like, he's great. I love this guy. And he's nervous. I'm like, why are you nervous? You're the son of like Hollywood royalty.

1:55:12Like, I should be the one nervous. We talked for like 40 minutes about Jaws. We didn't really even talk about the movie. And yeah, it was just like, it's, yeah. And he passes the most important test, which is he's fun to be around because you're going to be with these people for four months. So, you know, like you don't want assholes because that's like you're going to butt heads and it's going to be difficult for everyone. And I just could feel like he's a really good person and I don't want to be around him. And so, yeah, before we even started like the real casting, it's like, oh, we have Jack Quay attached.

1:55:44He's perfect. He's great. And then Iris ended up being so much harder. I assumed that there's so many young women that are just extremely talented, which is true. But I didn't realize that the character is really two characters in one. It's the first half. She's very docile. She's very passive. You need to believe that she's weak and she's not standing up to him. And then there's like a literal moment where she like, you know, flips the switch and she becomes like empowered and has agency. And you need to feel it when she's standing up to Josh in the second half. You need to like, you know, she needed to buy it.

1:56:19And there were so many actors. We had 300 self-tapes. We did a ton of chemistry reads with Jack. Nailed the first half. Oh, my God, you're amazing. And then for auditions, you do scenes throughout the movie. We did one in the middle. Or sorry, one at the beginning, one in the middle, one in the end. And then you got to the end where they're supposed to finally stand up to Josh. You just felt fake and false. And I was like, oh, I just don't buy it. And then the reverse would happen. You would find an actor that just nailed the ending, just nailed that. Like, oh my God, you're a badass. You're an action star.

1:56:51And then you try to do the Doss over. And you're like, I don't buy it. I don't believe you. And then, yeah, Sophie, her name had been kind of banded about. And finally set up a chemistry read with her and Jack, which I don't recommend to anyone to do this. But we did a resume, which, you know, the point of a chemistry read is to see if they have any chemistry. And it's really hard to have chemistry when it's like a tiny little box. But we had to because he was in London, I was in New York in pre-production, and Sophie was in LA. And it's like that Hollywood cliche of like, she just fucking like nailed it.

1:57:30And I'm so negative and I know I seem grounded, but I'm so pessimistic that I'm like, oh, we're going to screw this up. Like, I've fallen in love with this actor in this role and it's not going to happen. Like, something's going to go wrong. Like, she's going to get a better part or like, and just immediately just glass half empty. and luckily it worked out she's really great I think she's amazing she makes a movie yeah I I can't imagine anyone else in that role and she was scared out of her mind specifically that the the moment when like halfway through the movie when she or I guess it's earlier but when she discovers she's a robot like there's like it's easy to write like emotional like you know swerves but for her to like start in like a place of fear like like confusion and fear and then And then it turns into kind of a comedy because she's like, I'm a robot, disbelief.

1:58:20And then it turns into like real pathos. Like you're like, oh my gosh. I think the saddest part in the movie is her, you know, I think any other movie would be like her accepting she's a robot over like, you know, like 50, 60 minutes. She accepts she's a robot immediately. And the important thing is like, I know, okay, I'm a robot. That's fine. But like, how is that going to affect you and me? like I will do whatever it takes to get you back and that she was really scared of and she nailed it once we had that scene down this movie will probably work in the back of the house when she's in the chair yeah we shot it all in one there's like a two minute flashback that happens but we shot the whole scene all at once and she's speaking foreign languages and yeah it's it's so okay so the last thing I want to talk to you about is a feeling that I had while watching the movie which is I watched the movie I think before I saw maybe I'd seen the teaser but had not seen the trailer had not read anything about it and as I was watching the movie two things occurred to me one in the first 10 minutes I was like I think I know what's going on here I'm not totally sure but like you I watch a lot of genre movies I love genre movies very interested in how they're constructed did.

1:59:39And I was right, but I'm curious to hear you talk about how much you want us to be right as the viewer. and then the second feeling that I had was this would be an amazing movie to stumble on cable and not know anything about but inherently like you gotta sell this movie, you gotta market it, you gotta give away certain things that when Zack Greger read it for the first time he didn't know anything and he was like holy shit that every 10 pages construction is so mind blowing and even in our conversation you're just talking about the events of the film this will come out a little bit after the movie comes out but not too far afterwards and so that balance between like the reveal and this art that you've learned as a screenwriter to get people invested in what you're writing and what they're ultimately seeing versus you got to get people to show up and understand what the movie's going to be that they're going to pay for because it's it's very delicate balance welcome to my life like as soon as you have warner brothers like or i guess it's the new line logo at the beginning of your movie it's it's not you know it can't be don't worry darling you can't you know you you have to like sell what it is yeah it's got it's gonna be an IMAX you know you can't it's not a word-of-mouth movie when it's an IMAX like you need those tickets you need to sell those tickets so it's like it's it's it's it's tough to talk about that part of it but then also like I wasn't super precious with that as crazy as that's gonna sound because when I was writing it I like it was very important to me that we didn't fall under like the don't worry darling like like like like you're selling this movie as a twist movie because one like I think people watch twist movies differently than they watch It's just a regular movie.

2:01:11They're watching it as like puzzle boxes. And they're not really getting in. They're not letting themselves get kind of immersed in the story. They're just like every character that enters are like, who's this guy? Like, oh, he's acting weird. So everyone's under a microscope. I feel like Shyamalan is so much is held against him now when you sit down to watch his movies, whether you like them or not for that exact reason. Huge. I love him. Yeah. And I think that unfairly, sometimes they call things that happen to his movies twists. And it's just, no, that's a reveal. That's not a twist. You know, the aliens being, you know, like the water, like hurting the aliens is not a twist.

2:01:46Right. This is the part of the story. That's their weakness. Yeah. But yeah, so just, you know, again, I think it's, I think when you're writing, especially when you're writing at spec, like you have to be very calculated because you need to, like one, you need to like, you know, even though I say that I didn't know if it was going to get made, you also have to, you know, like I made, speaking of mistakes I've made, Like my first spec was$150 million, like sci-fi family movie. Like, and I was like, I would, you know, I spent a year writing it and never, nothing ever happened with it. It's like, yeah, of course nothing happened.

2:02:18It was$150 million for like movie, like not based on any kind of preexisting IP. That was crazy of me to do that. So, so companion was me being like, okay, I'm going to engineer this to be something that could get made. So we're going to keep it all in one location, limit the characters. And then also, like, knowing that, like, there is, it is kind of movies hinging on a twist, needing to kind of engineer the, like, the movie to still be entertaining after that's been laid out. And so before writing it, like, you sit down and you go, you know, what is this movie? Does she find out in the third act that she's a robot?

2:02:57What point? Is it a midpoint? And then when you have that, you know what movie you're telling. you know like this is a this is a first act twist this is like this isn't like doing anything other than getting the story started and so everything before that is just set up to that to to what this like what the what the strangeness is and then you know if it happens earlier than people expect it that's great because then they just turn their they've you know their guard goes down and they just start enjoying it and then a twist happens within that and then suddenly they're like oh oh shit, I don't know what this movie is.

2:03:30And yeah, like. That's exactly the feeling that I had, which was almost like, I feel like this is telegraphing in a smart enough way that I can feel like I'm ahead of the story, even though I'm not ahead of the story. And then you have other twists or reveals or storytelling moves that we don't see coming or we're shocked by. But so bravo, I thought it was really good. Thank you very much. Yeah, I appreciate that. Drew, we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers, what's the last great thing they've seen? The last great thing I saw was Oddity, which I thought was un-fucking-believable I saw that on a plane okay which is not I just was so busy that I couldn't like go to the theater to see it and I heard it was great and I watched it on a plane on an iPad and the visuals are so like just hypnotic and just draw you in that there's a jump scare that happens in the first half and the guy next to me went so I was like oh yeah this guy's watching my iPad and so I was really blown away by that um so that's the last great thing that i've seen but i've just finished uh william friedkin's memoir today and that was on i loved every like i listened to it and it's it was so special to hear him talk and i'm just a huge freaking fan and and i feel sad that i that i'm done with it um i read that book it's so funny that you say that because i was reading that book this week as well for something else that i'm working on and uh that's just a great the director memoir is a bit of a tricky proposition.

2:04:57You know, a lot of them are like a lot of self-mythologizing and his is like such straight talk. It's very, very entertaining. Like his movies, they're raw and like unfinished and I just rewatched French Connection. It's just so sloppy, but that just adds to the charm of it. And, you know, with this day and age where you're using AI for cleanup and, you know, the movies can be perfection and flawless, we're losing something a little bit with that. But I recommend listing the audiobook because he does the audiobook. you know he doesn't go off book but they're like his personality comes through and he's like this is a chapter where I talk about this like yes you're a great man I loved him so much I felt very lucky to get to talk to him before he passed on the show and he lives up it was a really special experience great recommendations Drew congrats thank you very much thanks for coming on yeah thank you thanks for having me

2:05:55Thank you to Drew Hancock. Thanks to Jack Sanders. Thanks to our producer, Bobby Wagner, for his work on today's episode. As we said, next week on the show, mailbag time. Email us at bigpickmailbag at gmail.com. We'll see you then.