The Top 10 Movie Plot Twists and ‘The Drama.’ Plus: ‘The Super Mario Galaxy Movie’ Certainly Exists.

21:31Sean Fennessey:They have a kind of like an idea about family or an idea about the self or an idea about how you participate in a society. Like the movies are not perfect. I'm not trying to valorize them at the expense of this other stuff because there's always been junk and crap for kids. But what making movies around video games does is it makes these movies action movies because video games are action. They are driven by avoiding obstacles, defeating villains, eluding capture. And so that pace that you're talking about is right on. And part of the reason that it's right on is because it's mimicking what it's like to play a video game where you're in a constant state of movement going from one thing to the next.

22:12Sean Fennessey:So now what we're doing is like we're training, and I don't think I'm over-intellectualizing this. We're training five-year-olds or nine-year-olds to expect action in a discreet and consistent way in these kinds of movies. This isn't the first movie that ever did this. Like it has been happening slowly. How to Train Your Dragon is like this, that they introduced fantasy movies in animated form. Kung Fu Panda introduced martial arts movies in animated form. The Bad Guys, those are heist movies. The Lego Batman movie is a superhero movie. So it's not like Super Mario bears the weight of this responsibility, but it does feel like a culmination of 15 or 20 years of animated movies used to be the sanctity of a princess or a prince or someone who's attempting to – has a great journey of self-discovery.

22:58Sean Fennessey:And now this is a movie about like five different characters in five different places at the same time and they all are having like a crazy adventure and then they're all going to converge on each other and there's going to be a big fight. And that's what superhero movies are too. You know, that's kind of what most, that's what the Fast franchise does. They split the big groups up and they bring everybody together. And so it feels like very formulaic and it also is like training us to enjoy a certain kind of a story structure at a very young age. I'm making this anthropological because I'm very interested in animation and what it does for kids and how they understand stories.

23:32Sean Fennessey:But I do think that this is like kind of the bottom of the barrel version of this kind of thing. Like the bad guys, those movies are fine. They're not that bad. They have real characters. They have like fun performances. The scripts are not that bad. They're iterative, but they're a good way to kill time. I agree with you. You felt something more insidious here. I mean, I think you're right. And Fast X is probably, the Fast movies are Fast X's most apt comparison because that is also the bottom of the barrel of that execution of that idea. But it is that the only point of this movie is to watch things go really fast and then explode.

24:08And whether it explodes via some purple goo or whether there's like another spaceship, the really intense movement and the more, more, more in the palette is the point. I asked my son afterwards what Super Mario Brothers Galaxy was about. And he said a ship that shoots lasers, which I think is a little bit the only thing that he could really like glom onto in his mind because he, you know, recognized a ship that shoots lasers. He did also understand that Princess Peach had a sister, Rosalina. So he understood siblings and ships that shoot lasers. But he's not wrong. That's what it was about. There were many different ships that shot lasers.

24:53I kind of got bored. I was like, well, which ship is this? And what are you doing now? Because there's not enough to grab onto. And I did. I was sitting there next to my kid, and I was like, I'm being a little bit of Goldilocks because we came out of Hoppers and we've been talking about like the later stage Pixar movies in particular and saying these are starting to feel like more like for adults than for children or you know all children's entertainment has now has to have this second layer of like winking reference for the adults to keep them entertained um but you've you're starting to like see the strings on that.

25:32And now I'm saying that this just has absolutely this children's entertainment has nothing for me to grab onto. And so, you know, what will make me happy? I guess what would make me happy is like a good movie that my children and I could relate to that doesn't feel completely bankrupt of all like ideas and human emotion. But that's just me.

25:55Sean Fennessey:I don't think it's an unreasonable request. I think it's the movie exists for obvious reasons it actually is shocking how long it took Nintendo to adapt an animated Super Mario Brothers movie for wide audiences and the first movie being a big success was not shocking there wasn't a whole lot to say about that movie because they were introducing the key characters you had a handful of very famous people supplying the voices this is a sequel as with all sequels there needs to be more more more right there needs to be an expansion of the universe more characters and I remember laughing more at the first.

26:31Sean Fennessey:It seemed like a more modest film, maybe, too. And so in that way, it just was trying to spin fewer plates. It felt very tightly focused on there's Mario and Luigi, and then there's Princess Peach. She is the princess of this land that she doesn't even totally understand. She doesn't know where her family is. But they need to basically protect her from Bowser, who wants to marry her and kidnap her. That was the whole movie. And that's basically how we understand the Super Mario Bros. video game franchise. that doesn't encompass Mario Tennis and Super Mario Kart and all the Donkey Kong storylines and Mario Paint and Dr.

27:03Sean Fennessey:Mario and the myriad Mario games that have come out since I was playing video games in the 80s and 90s. So this movie is trying to have a lot of those things. It's trying to squeeze in a lot of those things. One, my dumb brain, my lizard brain, as it were, enjoyed Yoshi, enjoyed seeing Yoshi in the movie. Alice got a huge kick out of Yoshi just doing the egg thing you know eating somebody you know dropping an egg that person that Yoshi ate was inside the egg it's a good visual gag yeah but to do that for like 90 minutes it also happened so quickly because this I mean this entire movie is on like 3x fast forward and I didn't it rushed the joke like the joke was almost stepped on so So there's no room to breathe.

27:52Sean Fennessey:There's not a lot of room to laugh. It did feel very Michael Bay. You put that in the spreadsheet and, you know, it's you see Michael Bay everywhere. But I think that this is I think this is correct. Well, I think Michael Bay is usually doing things visually that seem impossible with humans on set. And sometimes they're dangerous. This is animation. So it's just not impressive. It's just sort of like it's just a lot going on fast and loud. The moreness and just like how much can we do? And also perhaps a disregard for emotion or like moral concerns of any kind. Yes. Does track with Michael Bay.

28:37I definitely see it. I think that Michael Bay makes more, if not beautiful, memorable images. I agree.

28:43Sean Fennessey:What's your take on Bowser Jr.? you know, happy for Benny to get that check. And so did Bowser Sr. or Bowser Jr. put on the puppet show? I believe it was Bowser Sr. did the puppet show for Bowser Jr. Who was a wonderful audience member. I thought that was a lovely puppet show. And there is another moment, and it's a completely different animation style, right? And then there's another moment when Star Fox, who I didn't know about, but Zack was like very solemnly, yes, Star Fox. Yes. He's very important. Voiced by Glenn Powell, who I thought did a great job, you know, being Star Fox on Solo. Yeah.

29:27But his introduction is done in like an illustrated, you know. Hand-drawn animation style. Yeah. Old school style, which I thought was very compelling. But, you know, both of those instances took me out of the movie because I was like, oh, you can do something visually interesting. You're just choosing this slop.

29:45Sean Fennessey:yeah but that is the lingua franca of the contemporary animation I know I understand I wonder if that will change I wonder what the next phase of that even is because we've had we've seen these various evolutions in style or de-evolutions as it were I don't know I'm curious to see I think this movie is quite poor yeah any conversation after the movie in your home we hit on the same issue as I mentioned the sister relationship was very impactful and I think made the movie feel a little more coherent very clear that Bowser and Bowser Jr. are trouble. They're not good. I was doing bedtime last night and Alice said, Dad, I think you might be a Koopa, which is not good.

30:23Sean Fennessey:You don't want to be that. You don't want to be a minion in service of Bowser. That's problematic for me. But what did Alice think of the Minions trailer for Minions? God and Monsters? Is that what we're calling it? Minions and Monsters. God and Monsters is a Bill Condon film about the late filmmaker James Whale as portrayed by Ian McKellen. Okay. It was a 1990s Oscar bait film. You can have it all in the big picture. You certainly can. This is what we bring to the table. Mandalorian and Grogu trailer is pure crack. It is like the rock star eyes exploding when that comes on. Minions, captive audience, you know what we saw?

31:02Sean Fennessey:And it was my first time seeing it because as I said, I was not really following the news while I was on vacation is the Supergirl trailer. And Alice saw that And she's like, who's that? That's my new best friend. Oh, good. Okay, that's good. We found the audience for the Supergirl trailer. She's the one. Not me, but Alice. She's the one. I think Knox kind of perked up. He liked the music cues in the Supergirl trailer. But, you know, I've never been prouder than when my child just started absolutely cracking up as soon as the Minions did anything. The exact same, like, physical comedy that speaks to me about the Minions speaks to him.

31:34That's wonderful.

31:35Sean Fennessey:Yeah. You guys can see that together. Maybe I'll skip it. this movie's gonna make Knox did want to come do a podcast I will do my own podcast with Alice it's gonna be about space but and then maybe also Minions God and Monsters and he can sit in that chair that's really exciting Alice and I did once record a podcast and by record I mean she sat in that chair and we didn't record anything it was about The Last Unicorn wonderful animated film featuring voice work from Angela Lansbury it is about The Last Unicorn oh okay if you want to show that to Knox and do a follow up I'm sure that they would do great together.

32:07Sean Fennessey:She also is fond of referring to Bill, who is my boss. Yeah. Our boss. And when we were making the podcast, she kept turning to the booth and kept saying, Bill, is that good?

32:26Where did she learn this behavior? I think she's met Bill, actually.

32:29Sean Fennessey:I don't know. I think she probably just heard me talking to Eileen and being like, oh, Bill's calling or whatever, you know and she's like dad who's Bill so sorry Jack but I think she thinks that Bill in addition to being the boss also produces the show she does also know about Jack though and she does have questions about Jack and what Jack is doing well Jack met both of our children at the K-pop Demon Hunter that's why she was asking yeah yeah and I think do you loom large yeah that's great I think it's a good question what does he do we don't exactly know we don't know he just does stuff I'll never know um okay how do we pivot out of Super Mario 300 million dollars this weekend 500 million dollars 10 billion dollars made 34 and a half million domestic on a Wednesday like we were there you know and 9.30am was not the first showing I think it was maybe the third showing well I believe there were Tuesday night midnight screenings okay very cool yeah very normal stuff yes yeah it's gonna do very well that's fine listen everybody needs something to do during spring break.

33:34Sean Fennessey:They certainly do. This episode is brought to you by Volkswagen. There is such a thing as becoming too comfortable in your day-to-day, but our favorite films, with stories that make us change the way we think, they weren't made by people content to just sit back and watch the world pass by. This is your sign that you shouldn't either. From us, from VW, and the other drivers out there, grab the wheel. Do what you love, even if it means taking the road less traveled. Learn more at VW.com. let's pivot to the drama yeah this is our Super Mario Brothers Galaxy movie it absolutely is let's before you say another word okay I'm going straight to camera for this one okay do not listen to this until you have seen the drama I'm serious it's not even like it's not because I don't want to be yelled at it's because I want you to experience the movie without spoilers turn it off I mean it and come back when you've seen the movie thank you You're absolutely right to set it up that way.

34:33Sean Fennessey:This is the new movie written and directed by Christopher Borgley. He was a guest on this show a few years ago for his film Dream Scenario. It's his fourth feature film. He's a Norwegian director. It stars Zendaya, Robert Pattinson, Mamadou Athi, Alana Haim, Hayley Gates, and Zoe Winters. The plot synopsis is as follows. Days before their wedding, a couple's relationship is shaken when one partner discovers unsettling truths about the other. there is a kind of a plot twist in this movie and that's why you're setting the table in the way that you are yeah but it is really more sort of like a piece of information that is shared a reveal a reveal that influences the actions of the characters throughout the rest of the movie it comes remind me about half an hour into the movie somewhere in that vicinity so i'll start with what did you think of the drama?

35:24Absolutely. And on this, I loved it. It is, as you said, a doomcom, and it is not what has been portrayed in or suggested in the press tour that has been very heavily wedding-focused. And there was the fake announcement in the Boston Globe, and Zendaya's been wearing, like, something borrowed, something blue. They've been doing, like, wedding, romantic comedy.

35:51Sean Fennessey:very materialist 2.0 marketing exactly which we'll talk about but so it is it takes a different turn but in many ways it is also kind of a classical romantic comedy it knows the beats and it knows what it is working against not just the audience's expectations but also of what happens in these movies but the actual form the beats the set pieces I think it's very smart this is my kind of my kind of Scandi perspective, you know? Like sometimes I have a block, but I'm really in line with this view of the world. And I think it pulls it off. I know many people will not think that. I understand that this is going to be a hot button issue, but I think it totally works.

36:41Sean Fennessey:I thought it worked too. I told you that I saw it a long time ago. I think I saw it maybe six months ago, five months ago. And so I was seeing it very cold and quite enjoyed myself. I have a real affinity for Borgley's court jester, little stinker attitude towards humanity. It is something that is like fairly consistent, I think, with some other A24 filmmakers and he gets lumped in with them. There's a little bit of Ari Aster acidity. I mean, Ari Aster is a producer on this film and that makes a lot of sense. There is a sense of like most people are very vulnerable, fallible, insecure, bumbling, and stupid.

37:24Sean Fennessey:And this movie is an interesting exploration of that from both perspectives. The movie leans more towards Robert Pattinson's character. It does. Despite Zendaya being such a big star and such a big part of that marketing that you're describing. We can talk about the utility or lack of utility around that. and whether or not this is really a movie about humanity or just an exercise. As an act of entertainment and kind of like provocation, I think it's very successful. And these are the kinds of worlds that you and I have walked in. You know, we've lived in cities in America. We've worked these kind of like white collar computer jobs.

37:59Sean Fennessey:You know, we have nice furniture. With like creative gilding, but they are still just emails and performance reviews. You trick yourself into thinking that you have some sort of creative soul, but in fact you are a cog in a broader machine. And, you know, Borg Lee's very incisive and insightful about the vanity of these people, the frivolity of these people. And also that there is like a real genuine human frailty that like everyone's trying to understand about themselves. But that once you hear about someone else's frailty, it's how quick you are to judge them. Yeah. So I think it's pretty clever.

38:39Sean Fennessey:I could see it being like an amazing script to receive and be like, holy shit, while reading it not knowing anything. The movie is wrong footing the audience somewhat. And I'm quite curious to see how they respond to it. But I also think his filmmaking style and his command of tone is very specific and very strong. His observations, like it is very tightly written, like recognizable, both script and like the production design. all of the details are when they want to be indicting very much are. This movie is also set in Boston, quote unquote. And like, I don't think this, I know they filmed in Boston, but like has Christoph Brugley like ever been to Boston?

39:20I don't know. I don't know.

39:21Sean Fennessey:It doesn't have the character of Boston, I would say. Like it's, you know, when it wants to attack something or investigate an idea or do an exercise, it's really, really spot on. And then it does leave some other things totally to the wayside. Yeah. Do you think, do you want to say more things about what works so well before getting into that critical piece of information that is revealed to us? Yeah. Well, I mean, as you mentioned, it ultimately is a movie about Charlie, the Robert Pattinson character. And some of that is because of the structure and the reveal. and it is the Zendaya character, Emma, who has this shocking bit of information.

40:04And then, so you, the audience, are put in the perspective, both like structurally, but in terms of the story of the movie into Charlie's point of view. His psychology. What is he going to do? Or how is he going to handle this? So it's a Pattinson movie more than it is a Zendaya movie. and I think weird bungling Pattinson like who's still kind of hot is amazing I and I think he's wonderfully used and really funny in this yeah agreed and someone who was more or less confident would not be able to pull this off also I think notably he's not playing an American like he's obviously not an American in real life but he does get a little bit of distance from the more America-coded aspects of what's going on in this film, which is definitely not an accident.

41:04Sean Fennessey:I never would have guessed that his most favorite screen persona would be Hugh Grant meets Albert Brooks. But that's sort of where he's going with these kinds of characters. There's a little bit of that in Mickey 17. There's certainly a lot of that in this movie. That's obviously not his Bruce Wayne, but it feels closest to the personality he shows us in the world. Yeah. He's a little bit dopey, a little silly, but also very insightful. Did you watch any of the clips of another of A24's great marketing gimmicks was that they had the four main actors. So that is Zendaya, Robert Pattinson, Mamadou Ati and Alana Haim, like do a relationship hotline.

41:44No. And they had people call in and ask questions. And And Robert Pattinson is the only person speaking any sense throughout the whole. And he's also sort of confronting. One question that's posed is, I'm supposed to be bridesmaid in a couple weeks, and I don't really like this person. What should I do? I don't want to be in the wedding. And the other three people are like, well, you need to have a conversation. You need to be up front. You shouldn't do it. And Pattinson is like, you want to cancel this? You want to tell this person two weeks before she's getting married, I don't like you? Just say you're sick.

42:18100 % the right answer, but...

42:20Sean Fennessey:It's obviously not what I would do. What would you do? I would obviously just do it and accept it and pretend to perform and just be like, this is fine. Well, sure. But I think what we can all agree is that having an emotional heart-to-heart... Yes, no, that's not a good idea. But I thought it was telling in the context of the film itself and what is considered correct social and emotional values versus what actually happens in life, what you're valuing, how you should conduct yourself. And Pattinson is kind of on the outside, both in these videos and in the movie. That's the right way to tee up the revelation, too, in the movie.

42:57Sean Fennessey:So in the film, Zendaya and Pattinson's characters are about to get married, and they're going through the steps of potential marriage, which is they're preparing with photographers, and they've picked out a venue, and they're doing food and wine tasting. and they've invited friends to go along to do these tastings and the quartet of people are taking their sweet time at the tasting and they're asking for, is it one more glass of Skin Contact? Yeah, could we have another bottle of the Skin Contact? I haven't made up my mind. Right, the sort of the you know, petit bourgeois you know, city dweller I think Skin Contact is finally out by the way and I'm so happy.

43:40It's finally out? That's another thing I was never on, but like no Easter and no skin contact wine. That's sort of related, right?

43:48Sean Fennessey:Like the blood of Christ. I don't know if that was skin contact or not, as I recall. Yeah. When the transfiguration happened. Transubstantiation, that's what it was. So they're getting drunk and they're hanging out and there's a woman who's looking after them as they're trying these wines. And as is often the case when you're in social settings like this, people start creating these sort of like idea games to keep the conversation going. And I believe it's Alana Himes' character says, let's go around the table and say, what's the worst thing any of us has ever done? She tees it up, but she's also looking for, what she does actually is that she makes her now husband tell everyone the worst thing that he's ever done because she's drunk.

44:29And she explains that they did this before the wedding, but really she just wants it out on the table.

44:35Sean Fennessey:Yes, she's a toxic character. She is. Um... And so they go around and they tell various... I don't remember what the worst thing he has ever done is. I remember what she did, but... She locked a boy who was disabled in a shack? He used his girlfriend as a human shield against a dog that was about to attack them. That's right. Yeah. Well, you know. Not ideal. No. It's not good, but it's also just sort of... The blame there is with the dog and the dog owner, really. Okay. Well, they said he was a street dog. He didn't have an owner. We're not attacking dogs right now. I don't attack dogs. I just attack dog owners that don't take responsibility for their dogs.

45:12Sean Fennessey:They go around the table and it stops at Zendaya's character. Yeah. And she reveals the worst thing that she's ever done. Yes. Which is actually not doing anything. Yes. Once again, we're spoiling. So, you know, do your thing. She reveals that she imagined, dreamed, and planned a school shooting when she was a teenager in high school in Louisiana. And she did not go through with it. But that she did spend a lot of time thinking about it, scheming on it, fantasizing about it. And the tenor of the drinks dramatically changes when this happens. Because this is a, even though the two previous or three previous stories that have been shared are like a little scandalous or a little like, oh, you shouldn't have done that and moralizing about it.

46:00Like putting people in harm's way in varying degrees.

46:03Sean Fennessey:There is obviously a taboo quality, a taboo aspect to school shootings and that level of violence and anyone who's been associated with that kind of violence in our society. And so obviously the two friends are shocked. Alana Heim's character is very offended. And Robert Pattinson's character is in this unusual position in which the person that he is about to agree to spend the rest of his life with considered engineering a violent mass murder when she was a teenager. Didn't do it, but she considered it. Yeah. So the possibility, theoretically, is there lurking in this person or is it? Now there's a natural human drama out of this revelation, right?

46:45Sean Fennessey:About what's going to happen. Should these people stay together? How is he feeling in the aftermath of this? And the movie then does spend about 40 minutes kind of like getting close to his skin and like trying to understand how he feels and how he's coping with this information and what he should do and whether or not he sees this person in the same light. The movie is also simultaneously doing something. I find movies are very, don't usually do very well, which is forcing you to think in real time about a moral paradox while a story is unfolding. Yeah. And the sort of like, well, how would I feel and what would I do if plunged into this situation?

47:21Sean Fennessey:So I ask you. And even what should these characters do? And how are you, like, are you rooting, who are you rooting for in this? And what are you rooting for to happen? Like, what do you think the outcome should be? And how does that shift based on the new information that you learn? Because as you mentioned, the first night she reveals, you know, the basic fact. But there are a lot of unanswered questions. And then she just vomits spectacularly. There's a lot of projectile vomiting in this film, which I enjoy. And underused, I think, as a visual gag. Well, keep that in mind. Get some recommendations going for you.

48:00and then um the next 40 minutes he is trying to figure out what to do but his first instinct is like i need to learn more so i need to learn like what do you really what do you mean when you say you planned like a school shooting and then like what do you why didn't you do it and what were the like what are the circumstances and then the film like really digs in in all of them it um uses both like flashbacks and hallucinations. And I thought like an impressive and like pretty fluid way. And you could also tell they spent a lot of time and money on the dream scenarios, forgive me. And the flashbacks, which some movies don't, you know.

48:45But so they show you in what I thought was like pretty surprising detail. They cast a teenage actor to be the teenage Emma character. She just has a rifle that she is using in the woods. She is, she's the whole, you are, you are seeing a lot of it. You are watching her do like several takes of a prerecorded like manifesto that she is doing. So it's not just like a cute premise or a shocking premise that they toss off and then get into psychological. So if you do have to live with the planning of the school shooting and the reality of it in a way that I was surprised by as I think it was intended to be, right?

49:28Like they, it is a provocation, but they commit to the provocation. Totally.

49:33Sean Fennessey:I think also the style of filmmaking changes pretty dramatically. Like, again, it's been some time since I've seen it, but I seem to recall the kind of tone and texture of the sequences when she is a teenager being a little bit grittier and feeling almost more handheld. His filmmaking has this kind of like airy, smooth quality to it, a very Scandinavian touch in terms of the grace with which he moves through these kind of anxious comedies that he writes. But in those sequences in particular, they felt certainly more period. And they're set in the South instead of in the East. And the environment that he's shooting in, a lot of exteriors, her bedroom, which is this kind of safe haven, even the school that she's in.

50:15And then there's like a thorniness to that aspect of the story that I would say is not fully

50:21Sean Fennessey:explored, but maybe it's appropriate that it's not, which is that this young girl is a black teenager in a school and she feels very outcast. And seemingly one of the key motivations for her planning a school shooting is that she wants to seek revenge on the people who have outcast her. And we see over time, we learn through these flashbacks and through Zendaya talking through the experience that not only does she not go through with the school shooting, but that she actually finds community amongst a group of people who are anti-violence and anti-school shootings. And that there's a sort of like a group.

50:56Sean Fennessey:And one assumes this is in the early 2000s in a post-Columbine America where there's like a much more of a consciousness in high schools about this. And she pivots away from being this disaffected person with no friends to finding community and improving her life and maybe having a clearer head about some of these ideas. And also becoming an anti-gun activist. An activist, yes. Yeah, which the Pattinson character does say, like, didn't you feel a little bit hypocritical? Which is kind of one of the only instances I remember in the script of someone actually trying to, like, push judgment or emotion on another person.

51:38which which I I thought was notable because you know I think the criticisms in addition to it being essentially race blind is I think the way that it just doesn't as you say explore any of the American consequences like the consequences of this being an American black teenage girl in the south um having this high school experience and responding to it in this way or you know then flipping and what puts her into it and what puts her out of it. But then it's it doesn't explore that. And I and it does not take school shootings or anti-gun activism seriously in the way that we Americans do. And there is even another line when Robert Pattinson is speaking to the two friends and, you know, trying to work through his feelings.

52:30And he says something to the effect of like, this is sort of an American thing, right? Like, this is something that, that, like, you guys are, like, very touchy about, but the rest of us, you know, just understand. And he's trying to, like, extract himself from all of the sociopolitical implications, which is definitely the approach that this movie takes. And so, like, you asked earlier, is it, like, an exploration or an exercise? I think exercise is too dismissive, but it is using, It is not exploring the ramifications of race in America or school shootings as something that is like a particular specific blight of this country and something we need to deal with.

53:14Sean Fennessey:Yeah, I think it's short of treating them like chess pieces, but also short of really drilling down into them. But one thing I liked about the movie, and I think some critics will completely disagree with this, it didn't go out of its way to have that character give a big monologue about how she was mistreated and this is why she is the way that she is. because that isn't always how people think of themselves. And often those are dramatic devices that are created in movies so that we can like fully understand the psychological mapping of a certain character. And this movie is being a little bit more elusive about that.

53:44Sean Fennessey:And why I think that's powerful is because this is a movie about a confused teenager. She's grown up and she's about to get married, but it's about the psychology of a confused teenager and what the choices that she made and how they impacted the rest of her life. and nobody knows anything when they're teenagers. And you think you know everything, but you don't know anything. And whether or not you should be held accountable for the feelings and the ideas that you had as a teenager is kind of the psychological crux of the movie. Right. And the other psychological crux of the movie is from Charlie's side, which is, you know, the simpler, what can you know or not know about anyone?

54:20Yeah. And it's about the terror of getting married in many ways. And it is the most provocative situation. I was going through other lists of horrible things that I could imagine that someone did or not did. Is it a list you keep on the regular?

54:35Sean Fennessey:No, it's not. But there's no particular permutation where, you know, because if someone does something like truly horrible, like kills someone or something, then there's no gray area. and but if it's something with too much gray area then you're not going to be as like drawn in and as stressed out about what should you do should you forgive this person so impossible to be definitive yeah yeah they're like literally not knowing what to do and and knowing that as an member as well as the character on screen. So, you know, I agree that the ethics or the morality of the topics involved are not super like explored.

55:23Neither really are the characters. Like these are all, if not archetypes, then chess pieces is unfair because that would suggest that they're not scripted out. They're not serving their purpose. But I think everybody is moving around these issues in sort of like a flat, you know, tense way.

55:53Sean Fennessey:I think it's very consistent with the two previous Borghle movies. With Sick of Myself, which is a Scandinavian film that is very funny and very dark. Dream scenario in this movie. And all three of those movies, I think, have this underlying idea that most people going through life are kind of performing. You know, that like the real self, and this is Borgley's point of view, I suspect, that you're doing things that you think are expected of you, whether that's society's pressures or individual pressures or how you were raised and the way in which that is kind of impeding upon your true self. and that very few people are able to kind of live comfortably and specifically the way that they want to live.

56:39Sean Fennessey:There's like a kind of stymied quality to a lot of his characters. And you couldn't really tell a movie with Borgly's sensibility through the eyes of Zendaya's character because it would necessitate a little bit more vulnerability and understanding of what was happening there. Charlie is the person who is like, well, shit, what do I do now? And how does this affect me and my performance of my perfect life? And the movie starts so interestingly. Even though I've seen it a while ago, I can't forget. It's that moment where he's observing her in a coffee shop. And he's like looking at her and waiting for his in to go make a move because he's drawn to her.

57:18Sean Fennessey:Right. Because she's Zendaya. She looks like Zendaya. She looks like the kind of person who you're like, now that's the kind of person I should be married to. And his anxiety and his concern and his kind of overthinking of having the right social experience, like that defines the tone of the movie. Yes. And his character. And then ultimately what he does is looks up the title of her book and lies about having read it. Hence the performance. Yeah. Now, what's interesting is that character then reveals the pretense pretty quickly on the first date. So there is, you know, how much people are willing to perform is sort of an inverse ratio into how much Borgley values them or likes them in the film, which I relate to.

58:02But this is another reason why a wedding is such a perfect, perfect choice for the setting of this movie. And it really is more of a wedding movie than the whole school shooting of it. Breaks my rule. It does break your rule. But I guess it starts like the week of the wedding. So it does technically start with a wedding. And it ends after the wedding. It does. So in that sense, it could barely hold on to your role, which is weddings that's movies that start with a wedding are good and movies that end with a wedding are bad.

58:41Sean Fennessey:Movies very rarely end with weddings this disastrous. That's true. But they're so funny. But everything in the in the lead up to the wedding about the wedding itself and the performance of the wedding and the people in the industry, it's one of the great wedding bullshit movies. There's like a dance instructor who is just so mean to them. And also, why are they learning a dance to perform at their wedding? I know it's a thing that people do. But... A lot of this stuff is very true, though. Of course it is. This is very sharp satire about this world. The shot list that Zoe Winters plays the wedding photographer, that scene is absolutely incredible.

59:20The tasting menu you mentioned, there's a wedding DJ who shows up because the original wedding DJ gets fired because she was doing heroin on the street. Yes. I love that bit.

59:28Sean Fennessey:That side bit was so good when they're watching. But that was, that was, that, there are a number of moments like this where how we judge other people that we don't know very well is one of the central conceits of the film. And that one in particular is so interesting. And the idea of that woman who denies it, denies that she is doing what, that was so clear to them that she was doing. And the idea of like everyone kind of trying to protect something and not being comfortable being who they are. is like the subtext of the entire movie. But the wedding stuff is the inversion of that because it is the most public act.

1:00:04Sean Fennessey:It's the place where you invite all of your loved ones, everyone who really knows you, to see you do something that everyone believes you should all do to be truly happy in this society. And invariably, it's like the people who are in this industry are just like the biggest ghouls in the world, which is clever. I didn't have that experience. I had a perfectly nice wedding. but you know you I know you have some conflicted feelings I thought that this was extremely well observed and then there is a structural element where for the first part of the movie the Pattinson character is trying to write his perfect wedding speech and like what would be the performed ideal version of his declaration of love for this person and then you know it kind of gets um ruined several times over.

1:00:53But also the most performative and the worst person in the movie is the Ilana Heim character who ultimately gives one of the great nightmare maid of honor wedding toasts, which I think we should just, and I can say this because I'm a woman, though I've never been a maid of honor, we should outlaw these. It just, it honestly, it goes very badly most of the time.

1:01:19Sean Fennessey:Have you ever given a toast at a wedding? Yeah. Well, the rehearsal dinner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yes. And I did a great job. Good for you. Yeah. Don't worry about it. You did too when you gave one at our wedding. Yeah. I've given a few. In general, you know, unless you're really ready to give the toast, as my sister-in-law, Ruthie Barron, was at our wedding, like, you know, don't do it. You know, come with the goods or just say I love you and go home. But this one purposefully for the film is just an absolutely cringy nightmare. And she is putting on the performance of being outraged that people aren't being honest, even though she's doing it in a wedding speech.

1:02:08It's great stuff. It's really good.

1:02:10Sean Fennessey:It's just another nice little snapshot of an idea too, which is that the thin line between beloved eternal friendship and mortal enemy is very thin. And that one simple revelation can also fracture that relationship profoundly. You know, it does make you wonder like why Alana Heim is even at that wedding. You know, like why she's continued to participate in that friendship in any meaningful, it's a little confusing. Right. But, you know, I think the movie has like three different sets and tones. One is what seems to be a kind of frothy rom-com at the beginning. Very quickly pivots to almost like a social thriller with some kind of anxiety ammo baked inside.

1:02:51Sean Fennessey:And then the final third of the movie is like borderline slapstick comedy. I mean, the wedding in particular is very outsized and big in a way that the first half of the movie isn't. And it starts with Pattinson pursuing in a bungling fashion this kind of impromptu office affair with Haley Benton Gates' character, which I thought was so funny and so strange and so off kilter in the way that like some of the best stuff in this movie is, which then culminates in like a big thrashing moment in the finale. the movie seems to lose a little bit of interest I think in some of that like provocation and like who are we really idea as it goes into the final third I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing because I think of the movie I think dream scenario had a hard time tying up its loose ends and this movie is seems more tightly focused on making sure that we get to the end of this movie in a clean way perhaps too clean um I don't know what do you what do you think about that I mean And I appreciated the very classical romantic comedy ending turned on its head, which, you know, is satisfying in that real puzzle sense of we get to where we're going and you as soon as it starts the callback, you're like, oh, I see you put the piece here and you put the piece here.

1:04:08And there is something both soothing about that as a viewer and then also because this entire movie has been a rejection of not just romantic comedies, but also, you know, the idea of love and marriage and weddings and the ability to know someone else. It works because it's tied in a bow, but also is it at all? And then you wonder, you know, what's going to happen next? And it's a neat ending that is also not neat. And I appreciate that. I agree that it completely just drops the ethics of the school shooting of it all. And if there are people who watch this and are just like very offended by that segment of the film and don't think that it's addressed appropriately or, you know, borne out respectfully, I completely understand that.

1:05:04Sean Fennessey:I just think that... I don't agree. Yeah, that level of piousness doesn't necessarily appeal to me in terms of a movie like this. This is a movie that is certainly talking about serious subjects, but it's attempting to have fun with individual human foibles, which is something that I enjoy. I think it's really good. I think it's impressive. Totally agree. A hold of a certain kind of tone. I have to talk about The Apartment for a little. I mean, I just and you mentioned like the slick Scandi quality. And I suppose there is a Scandi mid-century modern element to the design of the apartment. But it is it's so knowing it it was like Sofia Coppola level of detail.

1:05:46Like there are like 14 different Akari lamps, you know, in each structure. It's really, really funny. Like the zelige tile in the kitchen, obviously the spiral staircase. They just, everything that Zendaya is wearing, the details are playing into the film and spot on. And tell a story all their own. I was very amused.

1:06:10Sean Fennessey:Yeah, I get the impression he walks through these worlds pretty consistently. And I think he's also kind of an auteur for our times insofar as we live in a time when people will fight online about the dumbest bullshit for hours and hours and hours and hours. But when something genuinely culturally, socially dangerous or scary comes up, everybody's like, fuck. Like, I don't know what to do. Like, in person, I don't even know how to have this conversation without either hectoring someone about it or completely turning off. And there's no middle ground. There's no ability to kind of talk about our feelings about things or mistakes that we've made in a productive way, which is a very European sensibility to bring to an American setting.

1:06:54Sean Fennessey:and I think he's very good at it. I like this movie. Now, I don't know if this movie's going to be a hit. I think it's cool that Zendaya and Pattinson are throwing their weight behind stuff like this. I think this is what you're supposed to do. You can make Batman and you can make Dune and you should also make these kinds of movies. If it's successful, it's going to be entirely on their shoulders, right? That like we want to spend time with them for two hours in a movie theater. I don't know. And also the A24, you know, hide the ball strategy, which you invoked materialists. And this is maybe not the same week, but the same time of the year, last year that materialists got its release.

1:07:33And many people felt that they were getting or expected a romantic comedy and instead got, you know, a man shortening his legs.

1:07:46Sean Fennessey:A leg shortening farce. Yeah. And, and didn't respond. and there was a mismatch between the marketing and what audiences got. Purposeful. Purposeful. And people still went to see the materialists. Yeah, materialists, you know, we had a ball talking about it on the show. I think we both thought it was very, very mixed bag of stuff. I think this movie is a little bit more successful creatively and will be a little bit less successful culturally because I do think you have more people who are going to be like, what the fuck is that about this movie? Yeah. Whereas materialists was sort of like, huh, that was weird.

1:08:19Sean Fennessey:Totally. But not in a way that could offend, really, unless you're really short. I guess. In this movie. I mean, Zoe Winters also had a questionable plot line in that film as well. She's really become a kind of sixth man of the year for A24. In all of them. In some ways, I think you're right that this is more of a, like, this is not what I was promised. In other ways, I do actually think it is a romantic comedy. It's just a completely upside down one. You're right. You're totally right. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tremphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

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1:09:56Sean Fennessey:This episode of The Big Picture is presented by State Farm. Sure, being an expert at movie trivia is impressive. You know what's even more impressive? being smart about saving money. And a great way to do that is by saving when you choose to bundle home and auto with the State Farm Personal Price Plan. Bundling, just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. Do you think this is a big twist? Because certainly this is available to people out there and some people have had it spoiled for them.

1:10:30Sean Fennessey:I think the way that you set this up is right, which is the movie just does not really work as well if you know what the twist is and you didn't know going in.

1:10:41Sean Fennessey:I was, you know, going through the list of like all-time classic movie plot twists and almost all of these twists happen in the final 30 minutes of the movie. And this one happens in the first 30 minutes. And so this is a little different than your standard fare. But we haven't really talked about plot twists that much on the show over time. Well, do you have a favorite Um, I, you know, I'll always remember being 12, no, 15 and seeing Sixth Sense and I made it to Sixth Sense without knowing what was going on. That one was spoiled for me, unfortunately. Yeah, that's brutal. But that was, that was incredible.

1:11:18And I was also the right age. I mean, historically, I am not a very smart movie watcher in that I will just kind of go along with it and then give myself over and be surprised. but that one I really I obviously didn't I didn't know what was going to happen

1:11:35Sean Fennessey:yeah that really ruined a great movie for me in some ways you can go back and watch it and enjoy the film in different ways now The Usual Suspects I think was the big keyhole for me the one where I was like oh you can you can do this in a movie and I thought very cleverly showed us flashing images that had been presented throughout the movie as all the little clues summing up the Kaiser Soze revelation about Kevin Spacey's character of Herbal Kint And, you know, there's a couple of like all-time classics, a few all-time classics that we can talk about. There's Psycho and the idea of Mrs. Bates, Norman's mother, actually being dead and learning that Norman is, in fact, the killer.

1:12:16Sean Fennessey:You cited Casablanca, which I would not have thought as a movie plot twist. Well, this is, well, you know, Victor Laszlo is my husband and was even when we knew each other in Paris, which is like, I call this the Jane Eyre. but the like in all romantic dramas like the oops actually I'm married yeah there's a there's a secret spouse somewhere else and this that comes fairly early uh Planet of the Apes is one that was spoiled for me by attendant cultural media you know like if you just watch The Simpsons you could have a lot of movies spoiled for you as a kid growing up but that one and also just remember my dad saying Soylent Green is people which is the big revelation of the Charlton of the Charlton Heston movie Soylent Green from the 70s.

1:12:58Sean Fennessey:But we've gotten a lot in recent years. I've noticed that a lot of recent movie history is defined by oh shit moments in movies. Old Boy has a few of them, but the one in particular that's the most upsetting is when we learned that Dae-su has been tricked into sleeping with his own daughter. Not ideal. No. Not what you want. No. Park Chan-wook. What a little freak. Arrival. I had not read that short story before I saw the film. Yeah. Nor had I. A very devastating revelation at the end. If people haven't seen these movies, they're going to be really mad at the... Hope you've turned the pot off by now.

1:13:32Sean Fennessey:We're talking about movie plot twists here. Crazy Stupid Love, if you Google movie plot twist, this is one of the most cited plot twists in recent movie times. Do you feel that this is a plot twist? When do we learn? Is it really just at the barbecue at the end? I think, yeah, I think it's more than an hour into the movie that Ryan Gosling is in fact dating Steve Carell's daughter who's played by Emma Stone. And that this suave... They learn that, but we don't know. Like, we don't see Emma Stone talking to Steve Carell beforehand. I don't think it's... I think it's what Sean's saying. I think it's closer to around the hour mark.

1:14:11Sean Fennessey:It's not like right at the end of the movie. And then, but the barbecue at the end is when they all fight out and they do the Spider-Man. Yep. Yes. Okay. Listen, whatever the younger generation needs. I like that movie. I like it when they do the dirty dancing lift. Yeah, it's a good film. Yeah. The Prestige. Yeah. They're twins. Yep. You're just naming them all off. Sorry, if you haven't seen The Prestige or Old Boy or Arrival and Crazy Stupid Love. Weird podcast to be listening to one and a half hours in. The Others is one that I like quite a bit. You seen that one? That's M. Night Shyamalan?

1:14:48Sean Fennessey:Nope. No, which one is that? That's Alejandro Menyabar. No. Spanish filmmaker Nicole Kidman is the star of this film you haven't seen this film I'm oh my god don't even look at what I've written down and you should I don't want to spoil this for you well I already read it have I not seen this oh it's a very good film oh no I've seen this yeah yeah yeah I've seen it I just didn't remember yeah of course we did because we did Kidman Hall of Fame that's right yeah yeah yeah that's right that is a great twist there Primal Fear was one year after The Usual Suspects yeah and it's good good for you Marty you know the revelation that Aaron Stampler is not a split personality, but it is in fact a sociopath and knowing murderer.

1:15:26There's a whole... This also, though, Primal Fear then ruined a lot of crime fiction afterwards. How so? Because he's a sociopath or he's a psychopath or she's a psychopath is only a satisfying reveal once, you know?

1:15:42Sean Fennessey:Okay. And then it's only like, oh my gosh, in Primal Fear. And then the next time it's like, well, there's actually no rhyme or reason to what's happened here because this person was just a psychopath. Okay. I didn't know that. I don't read a lot of contemporary crime fiction. I get mad when it's, you know, every writer does it once, you know, but when you're in the book and you realize like, oh, this is the psychopath novel, it's just not very satisfying. Yeah. I don't think I quite realized that this was David Fincher's stock and trade purely for a period of time. Seven doesn't have a twist so much as a shocking revelation at the end of it, but The Game and Fight Club are both pure twist movies.

1:16:17Sean Fennessey:And Gone Girl was also a pure twist movie. Yeah. Yeah. And... I mean, based on a book with a twist, but... Yes, of course. I mean, so is Fight Club. The game in Fight Club, we don't learn the twist until the very end of the movie. But Gone Girl, we learn... Is it less than an hour into the movie that we learn that this is all a scheme? Yeah, or maybe the halfway mark. I mean, it's kind of bifurcated. The first half is Affleck, and then the second half is... I don't remember her name, Rosamund Pike. Amy. Amazing Amy. Yes. The cool girl. The crying game? Yeah. How do you think that's aging? Really, really great.

1:16:57I'm sure.

1:16:58Sean Fennessey:Yeah. I haven't seen it. I've never seen the movie. I remember my parents talking about this. It was a flashpoint for movie discussion. There are a great many examples of this in horror movies over the years that have shocking revelations. I just wrote down a handful that popped into my mind as I was thinking about them last night. But Saw is one. there have been 10 Saw movies now and I think they're kind of like you know not taken very seriously but the first Saw was shocking I think the first Saw played Sundance as an independent horror release from James Wan and was shocking to people The Mist was an adaptation of a Stephen King story but that has a crazy twist in the film adaptation Sleepaway Camp that's another wild one Orphan Cabin in the Woods have you seen 10 Cloverfield Lane do you know about that one that's not the original no it's the second Cloverfield movie yeah no Mary Elizabeth Winstead and John Goodman you're gonna spoil it for me now?

1:17:51Sean Fennessey:they're trapped in like a subterranean space during what we think is possibly a post-apocalyptic moment but we don't know the John Goodman character is very paranoid maybe schizophrenic check it out I think it's really worth watching I think it's darn good Barbarian yeah you know about that because we spoiled it for you on this podcast Malignant another James Wan movie Parasite it's a good one it also comes about an hour in right maybe a little well the third family revelation to me is the big twist of the movie that's the like in the basement yeah and that amazing shot of the husband coming up the stairs yes yeah maybe you're right that it's only that it's like an hour 15 or something but then there's a while of because they banish her and then they all work their way in and then or they've all worked their way in but I don't know.

1:18:53There's at least another 30 minutes when you know. So it's not the very end.

1:18:57Sean Fennessey:Yeah, you're right. There's a lot of incident after that. Do you want to speak about your personal trauma? Sure. So I was recently at home watching Return of the Jedi with my son, with both my children. You should hear Sai say yub yub. It's quite cute. and I'm sitting there. Zack's in the other room and Knox, my older son, out of nowhere goes, hey, mama, did you know that Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's dad? And that is true and I did know it, but what I knew is that my son had not seen Empire Strikes Back because my husband decided to skip from A New Hope. to Return of the Jedi because he thought Empire Strikes Back is too scary.

1:19:48And then I learned that my son, he told my son, he was like, well, he needed to know for plot purposes. He needed to understand Return of the Jedi. He needs to know what happens in Empire Strikes Back. So I told him. I'm still so angry. I cannot believe this. My son doesn't understand. My son thought that the Super Mario movie was about like a ship, guys. Like he doesn't, He doesn't need to know. He can just watch the movie, and when the time is right, we'll show him Empire Strikes Back. Why are you ruining this perfect moment? I'm really, really angry about it.

1:20:24Sean Fennessey:Well, that's just something that wouldn't happen in my household. I'm very sorry. And I didn't have anything to say about Zack made the executive decision that we were going to go A New Hope and then Return of the Jedi. And I, you know, I understand the impulse. You have to let both parents parent, you know? Wow. Thank you, Dr. Becky. I was like, that is fine. I'm not going to get involved. But Knox says this out of nowhere, and I was like, who told you that? Like, how did you, were you on Wikipedia? He was like, dad. Dad told me. Yeah. That's just a very sad story. It's a very sad story about snatching wonder from the mind of a child.

1:21:06He maintains that he did the right thing. And then...

1:21:09Sean Fennessey:Now, I will say, Empire Strikes Back is scary. And, you know, it was not an issue in our home, but I have heard many parents that I've talked to about this, especially because when we were watching the Star Wars movies, I was telling a lot of parents, like, oh, yeah, we're doing the Star Wars movies. And some were like, oh, it's great. This works, this doesn't work. And some were like, we did A New Hope. I tried to do Empire, and they couldn't do it because it was too intense. So I understand the motivation. The spoiling couldn't be me. That's not something I would do. He stands by it. And then as like a rejoinder, he keeps throwing back the fact that I allegedly told Knox that it's a grown up in the Mickey Mouse suit, which, first of all, I don't remember saying that.

1:21:45And I don't think that that's true. And second of all, I think that that is really different.

1:21:50Sean Fennessey:You should tell him it's a grown up, but that it's always Uncle Chris. That would be the way to make that OK, I think. And Zach thinks that is worse than spoiling Empire Strikes Back. I just I couldn't disagree more. this is a fundamental issue in our marriage. Well, you know, life is tough, you know, and you got to learn the hard way that you're not going to get things exactly the way that you want them all the time. You're learning it now as you parent. Knox is learning it now as he has the magical wonder of The Empire Strikes Back, one of the greatest moments in movie revelation history taken from him cruelly.

1:22:25Sean Fennessey:One day he'll be able to come here and do a podcast with Alice about how his father ruined his life. Now he can't ever have that. It's a real shame. Yeah. But that is among the greatest plot twists of all time. It is. Is learning that Anakin Skywalker. You know, I'll be curious to see if as Knox gets into the prequels, if you guys allow him to see the prequels, if he develops the same affection and interest in Anakin as my daughter has. Because I think Anakin might now be one of her, if not her favorite characters. She really feels like he's misunderstood. And we watched Rogue One the other day, which is really not for kids at all.

1:23:01Sean Fennessey:But at the end of Rogue One, Darth Vader shows up. Yeah. And he just wrecks shop. He's got his red lightsaber and he's just going to town trying to get the map to the Death Star that leads into A New Hope, right? That movie ends right where A New Hope takes off. And she was like kind of pumped that he was kicking ass and killing rebel soldiers. So, you know, we understand these things differently. Yeah. when we were kids where Darth Vader was the ultimate embodiment of evil it's a little cool he's kind of a sad kid that's no that's that's the millennial shit right there yeah there's a historic Patton Oswalt bit about that but when you watch the movies as a young person and you have all this context and backstory it changes your definition of it but your son will never really understand he had it taken from him it's too bad at least he has Mickey Mouse I told him that that was wrong that it really is Mickey Mouse and he was like, and he has a tummy and everything.

1:23:59So. Good question.

1:24:00Sean Fennessey:Yeah, we all do. Why does the Mandalorian wear a helmet? It's a part of the, the ancient religion that he follows that you always have to have your head covered. Okay. That is a sign of respect. Okay. I think that's right. Thank you. I could be completely wrong. Okay. You want it? Well, I mean, maybe Easter would be a good time to talk to him about ancient religions. Consider it. Would you let you do that? I would be happy to. Yeah. I have many thoughts. We know that you love to explain complicated things. to small children. Yeah. Well, it's one of my skills. Okay. You know, I've been doing it here on the show for years.

1:24:30Sean Fennessey:As we've learned, this is what happens when I let other people parent, you know, is that Empire Strikes Back gets killed and suddenly, you know. Well, you can trust me with all things Star Wars. Other stuff, very debatable. That's not, may not be my true skill. I think that's it for us. Okay. How are the Mets doing? Good? Bad? Oh, it could be better. Okay. Well, it could be better. I just recorded in a segment of Mets Corner this morning. I saw that, but I, to be candid, won't listen to that with all respect to Zach Lowe who I also love and admire. Okay. So I just, You won't listen why? I don't have that kind of time, you know?

1:25:05I see. But I, I'm watching, I'm doing the Meryl Streep tape, you know? I know, me too. I'm really digging in. So, I just wanted to check in with you.

1:25:14Sean Fennessey:They're three and three. Okay. They are 29th in the league with runners in scoring position batting average wise. Right. Okay. That's not, that's not good. Some struggles. Yeah. But we're going to bounce back. Okay. It's going to be okay. Next week on the show, speaking of statistics and data, we're going back to 35 under 35, our patented movie star ranking. We've been doing this for many years. I think this will be our fourth 35 under 35. Wow. Yeah, because when we started it, I was 35, and I wanted to be eligible, and you said no. Well, sad. Anyway, those days are long gone. Nope. You're eligible for 35 over 35 now, but we're not doing that.

1:25:52Sean Fennessey:We're doing 35 under. I thought we were going to be short on some names because we have had a lot of people graduate. But then I've discovered a great many new names that have been added since the last time we did it. So this will be a fun exercise. We haven't even started yet. We got to. I know. Well, we, you know, we had to do this. We got cracking. Thanks to Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. Did we spoil any movies for you and for Lucas? Not really. I don't think so. Lucas? He's never seen Crazy Stupid Love. Okay. Okay, well, so Ryan Gosling is friends with Steve Carell and then dating his daughter.

1:26:27And they don't know. I'm sorry.

1:26:29Sean Fennessey:Amazing plane movie. Great plane movie. Good call. Speaking of Lucas, thanks to Lucas for his support on this episode. And we'll be back Monday with this ranking, which I think will be received very well. People are always kind, supportive. They listen. I would say listening comprehension very high among our audience. They have respect. Yeah. And a sophistication. And they are committed to this project like we are. And I love them. Yeah. See you next time.

1:27:16Bye.