‘Thunderbolts*’ Is Marvel’s Return to Form. Is It Too Late?

23:59So I did recognize the building. Yeah. She mentions at some point that construction is only like 60 % done because they shut it down. Was that renovation? They just put that drywall up, she says. A lot of talk about the drywall. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of talk about the drywall. That joke like fell flat for me because there were also a lot of armed guards. Much like the drywall then fell flat onto the citizens of New York. Yes. So was that like a renovation or was a vendor's tower? A lot of destruction in New York, you know, throughout the MCU. Oh, right. So they have to rebuild. A little reference to the Chitauri at the valve.

24:30A lot of Chitauri Easter eggs throughout the movie. Don't know what that is. Sure you do. The invasion and Avengers. Why would I remember the names of the aliens? Chitauri, it's a memorable name. I agree. It's one of the most successful films of all time. In fact, you and I saw it on the same day. I know. And we hung out afterwards. Remember that? It's part of the origin story on the big picture. Oh, the Avengers, not Endgame. The Avengers. Oh, sorry. Okay. I mean, guys, that was like 15 years ago. It was literally 15 years ago. There's a kebab scene in there? Shawarma. Shawarma. Sure. Okay. Well, there you go.

24:59I remember that. Close. yeah okay uh what were we talking century sorry yeah we switched to real estate corner on you century well stark tower is interesting because obviously this film in many ways is about the creation of a new super team that will play a significant role in theory i'm not actually sure if this is going to end up being a signature team in marvel and we can talk about that at the end of the pod yeah but um you know valentina realizes at a certain point that she needs to have more control over the world and one of the only ways to do that is to have a superhero of her own and that there's this huge vacuum she literally says this before Congress and Wendell Pierce who is a congressman one of two significant former cast members of The Wire who appear in this film in addition to Chris Bauer in a very thankless role as what is his name?

25:46Holt? I believe it's Holt. Holt's a military man but I'm prepped for lethal! who meets an absolutely grisly end as he crashes in a helicopter. Well does he? I guess we can talk about the the Void's powers later. Oh, okay. Good point. Right. See? Look who's paying attention now. But then if you're restored and the vessel you were in had, like, exploded... Well, I... Put a pin in it. We'll go there. Science corner is a coming. Science corner. Science corner is a coming. Anyhow, she knows she needs to harness a superpower. She doesn't realize that she's harnessing an uncontrollable superpower by making the sentry...

26:25She also doesn't realize that she did it. Yeah. It was a failed project. Throughout the trash. What do you think about her lack of attention to detail and reliance on Geraldine Viswanathan's character throughout this film? I did feel like, I know that we girl bosses are supposed to outsource, you know? We're supposed to delegate and let people support us. I love to promote women. Great iconic moment in the movie. Contestas really can have it all, including an assistant who does their job for them. I did think that she was outsourcing, like, maybe a little too many kill switches. Some high-level work, yeah.

26:58And also, just leaving a paper trail or a digital trail that I had some real questions about. Yes, Elena was able to scoop up a lot of key documents with relative ease. I will say two things. One, Val not paying attention to the details to the point that she doesn't even realize her experiment in Project Century has been successful is, to me, like, that tracks perfectly, right? And is, I think, very much in keeping with the hubris that we see across other governing bodies through the long history of the MCU, S.H.I.E.L.D. or otherwise. Or in America. Exactly. People are pursuing some sort of nefarious end, the grip on power above all, and they don't really care how that happens, who it hurts, or what even it looks like.

27:40The thing I felt much more keenly was that Mel was pulled to the light out of a void of a different sort by just Bucky Barnes being hot. And I would like to say It was palpable. It was palpable. And God bless them for allowing some sexual tension into one of these movies. When they show up in front of the Avengers sign or whatever at the museum, they're just like, oh, we're doing this now. Great. My God. The hair length, the beard, washing the vibranium arm in the dishwasher, the chili getting everywhere. Take the tank top off too while we're at it, you know? It's really the only thing they let him do.

28:17So the note that I made about Sebastian Stan's performance in this film is that he's barely even trying, but blowing almost everybody else off the screen. Because somewhere along the way, Sebastian Stan just got the Quan. Like, I don't even know what happened here. Like, obviously he had a great 2024. He was in two really interesting films, Academy Award nominated. Yeah. And some of it is just the erosion of star power throughout the MCU that he has risen above. But this is the second MCU movie in a row now where when he shows up, you're like, oh, it's James Dean. Which it didn't used to feel that way when he showed up in films.

28:49He was always a fan favorite and he's great. He's been in a lot of really good movies, but this is a cut above. Obviously, he and Florence Pugh are on equal footing in terms of their star power and what they bring to a movie. But I was impressed by how little he even has to do in this movie and how much he still is able to get your applause moments, get your whoa sequences. He gets one that is very effective and very funny, but also definitely felt edited in. Like, hey, we need a Bucky moment. you mean the driving sequence yeah i mean the i mean the mad max sequence which is like and you know and some of it is like they're using that landscape which like again thank god but it's you almost expect like the guy on the guitar to come out and be like yeah exactly it's really sick um and it's cool but it and i i mean it's important that he shows up at some point but it doesn't it's not really necessary other than they're like i guess we got to do something with this guy.

29:47So I have, I guess, a slightly different take on it, which is like, I thought this was actually quite deft and deliberate and a really smart deployment of a character who has become and a performer who has become one of the single greatest through lines in the entire MCU. Like, Bucky Barnes debuts in the first Avenger, which came out in 2011. Yeah. He has been in so many movies. He's been the co-star of a standalone television series. Like he is one of the heartbeats of the story to this point and people are deeply, deeply invested in him. Now that could be true of a lot of characters in a lot of movies, but it's a, I would say, even though there is like, I think quickly forged and very sincere, deep and abiding affection for Yelena.

30:32I think people love Yelena. I think Red Guardian has a lot of fans. These are really new characters. Like Bucky is just a different thing from the rest of the characters who have been, you know, Ghost, you know, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Like that movie's pretty old at this point. That was a while ago. USAG has never been in any of the movies, right? No, he debuted in Falcon and the Winter Soldier as well. And like, so did Val. Val was in Black Widow, but the, you know, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Black Widow were similar timelines and then Wakanda forever. But like, again, those are all very recent.

30:59We're talking about the last few years. You're right. He's got the longest legacy. Yeah. And so he's not only like, he is suddenly the elder statesman. That's just like a wild thing for the guy who used to be the sidekick to Captain America. like it's an and you know I think especially for a character where a lot of the connection that fans have to him and of course his relationship with Steve is like I'm with you till the end of the line that's like what Bucky represents in the MCU so for him to feel a little bit apart and outside of the rest of the group I think is intentional and actually necessary because it's a meaningful thing for him to decide to do it again with different people right that's a good point he's also an elected official and also that part is still very weird to me a former Soviet asset he's a hydra super soldier who is now in the House of Representatives, which, like, actually, I guess that tracks completely, but, like...

31:46That's a good point. Coming from the inside. In Red Hulk, what was that movie actually called? It was not called Red Hulk. What was it called? It was called Captain America, Brave New World. Okay, great. He was campaigning, right? He was. And he took some time from the campaign trail, right? He did. To, like, give... He did. In a desperate act of reshooting by the Marvel Corporation to wedge Bucky into the film. And that was the best scene of the movie. Of course. I was just trying to track his political progress. Do you have opinions on his political platform? Well, I didn't know that he was.

32:16I've forgotten he was a super soldier. Damn a Republican. I mean, he's representing Brooklyn, obviously. So presumably he's blue. Not so sure. Independent? Red like Red Skull? Come on. He's standing next to AOC. Casting votes. Okay. I hope so. That's actually an interesting question. If they would, of course, never be so bold as to reveal the political affiliations of any of their superheroes. Let's talk a little bit more about Florence Pugh. Okay, please. This is a weird time for her to be becoming one of the centerpieces of the MCU because the MCU has gotten a lot less cool. It's become a lot more clear in the public eye that it's maybe not as a there's not as much approval for the like, well, I just got to do this to kind of elevate, you know, my status and make movies that make a lot of money and make a lot of money myself.

33:13Like the bloom is kind of off the rose on this methodology. She got involved in this five or six years ago, probably when she signed on to do Black Widow. And she has been now, I think wisely pivoted into one of the key forward facing parts in this world. And she really carries this movie on her shoulders. She's fantastic. Yeah, she's excellent. Yelena is a great character. Yeah. I think a lot of her scenes are very well written. And her, as you said, her and David Harbour have terrific chemistry. And they're very funny. And they're very touching. And honestly, there's like a girl dad moment in this movie where I was like, this is real.

33:50Like, this is real. Which is so stupid to say about Thunderbolt. But it's very effective. Even just the fact that he has the soccer picture from their fake life in Ohio is like so sweet. Yeah. Because it was real to them, guys. The bond. And so it really plays to her strength of like, she's often a flinty young woman who's defiant and independent, but has this deep reservoir of pain and whatever she's pushing down. We see this, you've not seen the film We Live in Time, but I would say she is using a very similar skill set in this movie that she uses in We Live in Time, which was a kind of a modest hit last fall for A24.

34:26It is a little bit hard to imagine 10 years of Yelena and Florence Pugh in the MCU now. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but when I look at every other project that she's ever done, it feels pretty far afield from what she's interested in. You think it's hard to imagine that, like, because of her being Robert Downey Jr. now? Because of her being interested in it for that long? Or the character making sense in the MCU for that long? Or all of the above? We don't get a lot of, like, under 35 young women who I'm like, that's the future of movies to me, you know? Right. And so, I'm not, and this movie's pretty good, as I said, But for her to be kind of dragooned into Yelena through phase nine just makes me a little queasy.

35:06Interesting. I think, too, so even I'm going to assume you did not watch the Disney Plus television series Hawkeye. No, Hailee Steinfeld. Correct. Is also in that. This is why I bring it up. And listen, I guess I got to go back now because I'm buying in on Hailee. She's back. She should just be her character from Sinners in the MCU, though. That would be. Some of that show is actually quite good. There's a great dog in it. It was okay. I thought it was okay. As usual, they lost it. It was like episode five of six. Six episodes too long, but yeah. It was only six episodes, so that means you thought it should have been zero episodes.

35:38But the reason I bring it up is because when Yelena shows up, spoilers for Hawkeye, midway through, she's there on an assignment from Val pursuing Clint, kind of like, again, as Val tends to do with these assets, falsely led on a revenge tour. She's seeking to take people and like recycle them for her purposes. But the scenes between Yelena and Kate Bishop, the Hallie Steinfeld character, the new Hawkeye, are incredible, electric. And one of the questions for MCU fans coming out of Hawkeye was, is this the beating heart of the young Avengers? And I think it's really interesting that Yelena has been pulled out of that.

36:16Clearly, Yelena is not going to the young Avengers. That's happening with Kamala Khan and Kate Bishop and a different set of characters. And Yelena is in the new Avengers. Aren't really Steinfeld and Florence Pugh the same age, though? That's why it's interesting. I think some of it is about the character, right? And who the character makes sense with, maybe, in some of these different permutations. But I don't know. That's obviously not going to be... It doesn't mean that Yelena won't appear in any Young Avengers properties. And who the fuck knows if they're even doing Young Avengers? I mean, they keep teasing it.

36:46Obviously, we got some tantalizing stingers. But being the star of Thunderbolts and then having the Thunderbolts rebranded as New Avengers with a Z, great stuff. And then having the post-credits be just a setup for Doomsday, which obviously, like, Yelena is going to be a meaningful part of. Seems like she's going to be a really big character. Yeah, it's really notable. It is. I'm mixed on it. It's not that she can't make other movies in the meantime. She certainly can. But this really dragged down Chris Evans' career for 10 years. And I liked him as Captain America. And I liked when he was in those movies.

37:24But I was like, you kind of just frittered away like a long part of your career so I it's cool that she's having this moment and it's cool that they're making I don't know if they realized that she should be a centerpiece of these movies at a certain point and they repositioned her into this slot but it does then take us away from some other Florence Puparts it was okay for ScarJo she made it work she did and she still worked with interesting people and made good movies and had Oscar nominations and you know now she's just in a different giant franchise because everybody needs money. She's hunting dinosaurs.

37:57Are you excited about Rebirth? Not as excited as CR is, but his passion is my passion, so I think I'll absorb some of it via osmosis. I do want to shift back to the void in a minute, but before we do that, can I just make a note? I don't really think Julia Louis-Dreyfus is good in these movies, and I think she's a little miscast as Val. Tell us why. I think this is a genuinely hot take. I mean, she looks like Valentina, but this is unkind but she's a TV actor and it feels like you're watching a TV show when you're watching her. It doesn't feel like you're watching a movie. What do you mean? Her comic timing.

38:33Extremely rude to the Nicole Hollifson her film enough said so take it back. I'm a huge fan of that film. I'm also a fan of You Hurt My Feelings which came out a couple of years ago but I wouldn't describe Julie Louis-Dreyfus as a great film actor. I think she has a sensibility that is like very quippy and very quick that is all about repartee. Now, that is obviously a component of Marvel. But this is a movie, I think with a big dynamic emotional story in it. And she's a part of that story. And whenever she's participating in it, I feel like she's in the sitcom version of the movie. And a lot of the other actors are in the real version of the movie.

39:08And it kind of threw me off my game. She's doing Veep. And I mean, it's hard. She's dressed beautifully, by the way. I like the suits very much. I've got no beef with Julie Louis Dredger at large as a longtime Seinfeld fan. But, you know, it is like professional woman, like professional ambitious woman playing ambition and all of these tropes like for laughs. And it's like different kind of laughs and slightly less sophisticated. But I know what you're saying. Yeah. I thought that was more about the kind of tonal divisions of the movie because it's very quippy and that it is also, you know, about depression.

39:45and recreates everyone's depression for extended periods of time. So she's just in the funny half. I think she does a good job at the funny half, but the mishmash doesn't totally add up. I guess you could make the case that we do get this. So Bob's character has this ability when he makes physical contact with a character to draw them back to a traumatic moment in their life, to a critical moment in their life that informs a lot of the pain that they feel all the time. Almost every character in the movie gets to have a moment like this with Bob where we see something critical to their life. She gets one of these moments.

40:24Yeah. And so we see something that is how we see that her father has been murdered when she was a young girl. Yeah. We get a little bit of context around maybe why she seeks to control power the way that she does. Yeah. But then you cut back to Julia Louis-Dreyfus and she's kind of like making a face and darting out of the room the moment she has to deal with this. And I'm like, they're not even giving us any opportunity to get invested in whatever this character is supposed to be about. I responded to it the opposite way, which is like, I'm like, Val's not a character. That glimpse into her trauma didn't resonate with me because I don't think the movie is sincerely interested in informing us about her motivation.

41:06It's like she is where she is and she behaves the way she does. And it's not a study in actually her path to that. It's a study in like the manifestation then of her intention. And so I think her being like a glib, myopic, a void of a different sort, somebody who is seeking to absorb and suck and subsume everybody into her orbit because the thing that she desires is control. I think the way that she's engaged in conversation and certainly the performance is like, this is how I deflect and how I make my way through the world and I'm smarter than you and I see something more clearly than you and I'm going to make sure that you understand the only thing of value you provide to my life is this cup of coffee.

41:50I really like that. And I think at least the projects that she's been in so far, maybe with the exception of Wakanda Forever, where while I was genuinely interested in the romantic history between JLD and Martin Freeman's Everett Ross, one of the just great reveals in the history of cinema. You're sort of like, wait, what is this doing in this movie? But when she comes in in Falcon and the Winter Soldier, she's like, John Walker, you were Captain America for a minute and you were disgraced. And I'm going to use your pain with a couple quick one-liners and then my own agenda. It works. and the fact that she's like using humor in that classic JLD way, I think allows you to understand how she moves through halls of power.

42:35So I've really liked the way that she's been used in the MCU. I think that if she were in like, I don't know, any number of other MCU properties, like it probably wouldn't make any sense. But the ones that she's been in so far, like it actually has worked. I mean, you could see her in like the Guardians movies. You could see her in a Deadpool movie. You could see her in Ragnarok. I think it's because of her theoretical emotional importance to the movie. Like, she is the agent of power, literally. She is the true villain of the movie. And we don't really know why. I'm okay with that. Like, the, you know, the reality of power and the, and if anything, I, you know, I don't need to know about her trauma respectfully.

43:24And so like the flashback of it being like, well, you know, that was upsetting. And I thought all of those flashbacks like were pretty restrained and effective. And she her face recoils for a second. But like, I, you know, I didn't need to know anymore. I think I'm not maybe not asking for like a one hour exploration of Val's pain. I think it's more just because of the performance. Like some actors can pull this off without having to have that scene. And I and I don't want to disparage. Thanos' pain? Thanos' pain. Sorry, yeah. Sorry for giving it the... Destruction of the home world. The transatlantic.

44:00Yeah, his planet has been destroyed. Yeah, the pursuit of balance. Okay. Impartial balance. Okay. But so his home planet... He's kind of has OCD a little bit, too. Okay. But that's the inciting incident. Like, his home planet blew up. Well... Did he blow it up? There's a... Do you recall the showdown where Peter gets very upset and then everything when they're trying to take the gauntlet off everything kind of goes to shit. No. But that's okay. I was going to bring up the setting and then where we see the destruction but it's not a Okay. Yeah. That's right before the snap. Correct. Yeah. Okay.

44:37So there we go. You should revisit it. I don't think those movies are good. They're great. Yeah. Okay. Let's go back to Lewis Pullman. Yeah. He was great. I agree. You liked him. Oh yeah. I thought he was fantastic. This is Bill Pullman's son. He went from being someone I'd never heard of He does. He's a good use case for like, here's what it was like in the 90s where a guy like this could be for at least six years the most important person at the movie. So he was the president and he was marrying Sandra Bullock. And also like Bill Pullman so Lewis Pullman and then Jack Quaid son of and who does look like Dennis Quaid but also looks so much like Meg Ryan.

45:17And so they're just, you know the 90s are back and the facial expressions and the emotions. And I do feel like some of his emotions and some of the, like the, his acting looking so much like Bill Pullman definitely affected me because I was thinking about Sleepless in Seattle or While You Were Sleeping or Independence Day as he was being like, sometimes I have a hard time in Southeast Asia. It was like for our parents to watch Michael Douglas get insanely famous in the 70s and 80s and having known Kirk Douglas before that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, but he looks exactly like him. Yeah. Like in a shock.

45:50He has a different energy though, I think. Yes. He has a different vibe, especially Bob. But the middle part of his face is like, it's uncanny. I saw Bill Pullman in person at a Gladiator 2 screening earlier this year, and it was thrilling for me. Wow. It was like, he is my childhood in many ways. He looked great. Very handsome fellow. I find him a big fan. Quite dreamy. I believe he owns a winery now. A vineyard. That sounds great. That sounds right. Seems like he's doing it right. Anyway, his son is a really good actor, and it's hard to take parts like this and imbue them with any sense of emotionality.

46:20This is a complicated part. Bob was a drug addict and a lost person who found his way to Malaysia, looking to disconnect from the world and finds himself the subject of this scientific test. And I guess he's injected with some sort of serum. The serum. Is that the idea? Yes, exactly. And it transforms him into an all-powerful person. He doesn't quite realize the extent of his powers. We know he's going to have them, but he has that very cool moment where he sort of explodes into the sky after drawing attention away from the other Thunderbolts in the first half of the film. Very quickly, I think maybe just like a little too quickly, he goes from being a guy trying to figure it out to the most powerful superhero in the universe.

47:00Yeah. You felt like that was a little bit of a leap there. Yeah, that was fast. When you get to the Sentry sequence. Just a command of the powers. I guess we're meant to believe time has passed or something. You've already watched him, you know, face off against like the entire, Val's entire army. Right. And, you know, be shot like 80 ,000 times and then like ascend, you know, into the sky. Like he's so powerful. I think the thing that fell fast was the control. The mastery of all of his different abilities. Because like shooting, yeah, the hail of bullets falling, helpfully removing the lower part of his.

47:34Revealed his abs for you. I did. I also clocked those. and I was like, oh, I see Kyle Gerber. Well, it's very helpful. Yeah, from like then, you know, I shoot up and I shoot down and I crash and they collect me in a box to holy shit, I can make like a glass of water heat up and explode and two, I can, with calm and confidence and complete poise, handle every single one of you and anything you might do was like a matter of a scene and a half. Yeah, he was like the Otani of superheroes very quickly. I was like, we've never seen this before. And there was time for some hair dye as well. What did you think of the blonde?

48:04I thought they did a great job of talking about the hair in the movie. Yeah, it was funny. I liked it. God, what is the name of the lead villain in The Boys? He's giving that homelander. There's a lot of homelander. He didn't drink any breast milk though. Is that something homelander does? Oh yeah. Not caught up on The Boys. It is. How's he sourcing it? All sorts of ways. Fresh. Primarily? From the teat when he can. Also in a private store or refrigeration unit full of bottles any way he can get it. So is he like, well, what's the mechanism of stealing it? Like, is he stealing the supply? Is he attacking people?

48:44Like, does he have a number of different providers over the course of the five now seasons of The Boys? I fell off, I think, after season two. Although I like that show. I have nothing bad to say about it. He's not just like sneaking into people's freezers at night and grabbing that. Okay. He is like a Superman level power though. Like, similar to the century where you're like, this is the most powerful person on this planet. Yes. But he's also an absolute demon. Okay. A horrendous person. Yes. Bad guy. Homelander. Bad guy. Sentry realizes his incredible powers. We have this great fight sequence in the middle of the movie where all five Thunderbolts get their asses handed to them in a very tight and tidy way.

49:24And then it becomes clear that Bob realizes he's stronger than he knows. And Val realizes he's too powerful and too self-aware. Yeah. The kill switch is engaged by Mel after he nearly kills Val. Yep. He dies and is reborn as the void, the darkness that lives inside of Bob. So here's what I wrote down. Because this is the reason that this movie ultimately works for me. There's a big obvious metaphor at the center of the film that is also its core theme, that is also its villain. Yeah. And I don't know if I've ever seen that before. Now, obviously, it's a comic book movie, and so the bounds of our imagination can go anywhere.

50:01but using all three of those things in one package to tell your story at a time when people are more aware of and confronting their own general depression than ever before this is just something that people talk about every day now yeah and the entire character is oriented around this idea of not slipping into this feeling i don't know if it's sophisticated but it is deeper than i think a lot of what these movies are about or at least can can like thematically reach Like I listening to you all the time, you have an amazing ability to locate what the story represents and what it's trying to do.

50:35I don't always agree necessarily with like, I'm not in agreement with how it gets to that place or if it gets to that place. But you are so good on theme. This was a rare case where I was like, the theme is very strong and clear and clearly communicated. And it didn't feel phony. And I'm so sick of trauma as the basis for so many horror movies. This was a rare case where I thought, I don't know if earned is the right word. But it worked. It developed it. Yeah. And like, I agree with you. And as a person who didn't know anything about this character or the exposition, so had to have all of the pieces in place explained to me so that I could understand the central theme.

51:15But you get it. It's it. It is straightforward, but also not too heavy handed. You know, even they are doing like the villain's or, you know, the villain's trauma, her origin story. But it's quick. And if like you don't really care about it, it's gone in two seconds. So it's there's something about it just being so like dead on where they're not trying to hide it in that many other things because the void like just is depression. Like that is the that is the character. so they just go with it. Yeah, it's really not trying to make you think. It's like, this is what it is. Right. Yeah. But they don't try to overcomplicate it.

51:58Right. And I think that is smart and that makes it more effective. Yeah, I think the movie's like very self-assured in what it's trying to examine and convey, you know? And so like, I think you guys are right that it is there in a clear and palpable way but not then in a heavy-handed alienating one which is like actually quite a difficult balance to pull off. I think, again, a character like Valentina, part of the reason that she is in opposition to our heroes and our anti-heroes, whatever we want to call them, is not just because she's seeking to use them, but because she is uninterested, ultimately, in looking inward in a way that all of the other characters eventually work themselves to a place of being able to do.

52:37And crucially, of course, in a team-up movie, in a found family movie, helping each other do. Like, guys, the climax of the movie is literally a group hug. like for real like they all go and wrap their arms around bob and which is a great little and there is there is a there is a a version of this movie where that is like so corny and so like eye roll inducing and it just wasn't i was like wow this is actually like quite touching and i'm invested in these uh these people as individuals but also now as a group and that happen quite quickly. I mean, I think in the inside of the film, like just not a lot of time passes and you have to believe that that bond could forge.

53:22I think it's helpful when some of the characters already have history with each other, like Bucky and John do, or like Yelena and Alexi do, because you can have that conversation, like the one that Alexi and Yelena have. And you know, there's more like depth of shared experience and awareness. But ultimately, I thought the pairing that crackled the most and that kind of you have to opt into and give a shit about is Yelena and Bob. Like that's what the movie hinges on is you caring that they are going to decide to care more about each other than the things around them. It only works, I think, because of that conversation between Alexi and Yelena outside after they've been defeated by the sentry.

54:00And she's talking about this sense of like aloneness and purposelessness. And I think a feeling many people can relate to, which is sort of like some days are good. A lot of days are bad. And when a day is bad. Totally. What is the point of everything? and that's the same thing that Bob is dealing with and when Lexi talks to her about it makes her feel more whole like the light you're dim you're brighter and here's the little girl I knew I was like damn this is good writing yeah it is why you want to be a goalie the goalie part was great she did the the Star-Lord were losers right like people who have lost things you know speech from Guardians that's like such a tried and true recipe but to do it in a way that still felt fresh here or maybe less fresh and more just like specific to these characters I thought was impressive.

54:45Quick shout out while we're talking about that sequence on the street for the passerby, the woman who just like, it's like, what's going on? These people, she walked by, that was hysterical. That is what would happen in New York. Yeah. I love that. That was a great little touch. I thought that was really, really funny. Did you guys feel that the actual maze of trauma traps was like, did you want more? I thought the Bucky coming in and being like, well, yeah, you know, I've had a calm, chill, cool, normal life. So like, it was fine for me. It was great. And we don't need to see Bucky's memories because we know what they are.

55:23But did you wish we saw more? I think I'm glad we didn't spend too much time in that because this is the most Nolan inflected MCU movie I can think of. And that was very Inception, that final sequence. And as you guys know, I have some issues with Inception. I think it was just psychological enough to not have to worry about the logic of it and if I start spending a little bit too much time thinking about like what they did or how Alexei found his way to work you know what I mean like the mechanics of it were kind of iffy but it was done well enough that I understood what they were trying to do which is basically get us to that lab so that we could Bob and Yelena could meet and she could make him whole again she could say it's not your fault basically right Right.

56:05I think I was so relieved that the climactic, you know, like final battle dream, whatever sequence in a Marvel movie was once like somewhat grounded in the real world and, you know, filmed on sets, at least as opposed to on green screens and was, you know, recognizable things. and like I'll give them credit you know like one of the memories was like a you know an abusive dad and a bad childhood and a you know and then one was meth chicken right meth chicken which was like they weren't they weren't too corny they were like recognizable and they didn't dwell on them so but just the actual execution of this being like not CGI slop for like you know and a bunch of ants was a huge relief she loves the ants and she brings them up a lot.

56:57Mention them multiple times over text this past week. It's not even the first time this week that she has mentioned the ants stuff. No idea that it's all happening in the quantum realm, but she knows that there were ants. I did until I saw this movie think that the void was the quantum realm. You know what? We worked through it together. Something you're saying right now makes me think of another thing that I think the movie does very well. Let's use the Alina's trip into the void as an example. You actually could understand everything important about that character if you never saw Black Widow.

57:24Agreed. And I think the MCU, when it struggles, really struggles with that specifically, is how much homework did somebody have to do before they say, now I'm like a completionist, I want people to watch all of this, but I don't think they should be expected to have to watch all of it. And if you didn't see Black Widow and you didn't see Hawkeye, you would understand that Yelena was turned into a child assassin and forced to commit atrocities against other people. It's because you've got a lot of characters who don't know each other, so they have to introduce each other. At a certain point, Red Guardian is sitting in the passenger seat of a car, and he's talking to Bucky, and he's like, you and I are the same.

58:01We're both super soldiers. I got the knockoff Soviet serum. Like, he's literally explaining his origin story, but in a humorous way that moves quickly. And it's not this overweening mythology. It is just, I'm a guy. Here's what I do. I'm a lady. Here's what I do. You also crucially learn not to drink what's in the Big Gulp. Also important. That's pretty gross. Yes. Are we sure that's what it was? What do you think it is? It's a big, big, that was a big cup. This is not the rewatchables for Jesus Christ. You asked the question. That was my second guess too. What did you think we were going to say?

58:35Let's talk about the void, the character. I thought this might be a good time for Science Corner. I assume you have some questions. I have been waiting all week.

58:46That's the Science Corner music. But I hope we play the real one. Welcome to Amanda Dobbins' Science Corner.

58:57so is he disappearing people or is he what happens to their physical matter is the question that i would have once you get voided because we see and i actually again i really liked the execution in the movie which was you know it was computer but instead of it just things it kind of got like stamped out like shadowed out yeah shadowed out and that was something that you could do like fairly like easily and elegantly within the in the spectrum of the like the visuals and I think I think also visually it fit the metaphor which is like the encroaching darkness of life blots you out yes and then they also when the sentry becomes the void and like shows up over the city of New York he's it's like he is just dark Superman which is what you're supposed to understand and even I, you know, a superhero dummy got.

59:56Like, it was effectively visually communicated to me. What happens if Superman was super depressed? Right. Well, which like, isn't he though? Because, don't you think being Superman? Yeah. Yeah. Right? We're going to find out. July 11th. Great. Can't wait. There's, you know, a dog in that movie. That was a sarcastic can't wait and a sincere can't wait. Simultaneously. A dog in that movie. Not a dog in this movie. Where was Watchdog? Where was Watchdog? Where was Watchdog? Alpha and Omega of my podcasting life right here. I love it. Mallory. In Vegas. Yeah. James Gunn. Yes. Talked for, I am not kidding, 20 minutes about his dog and what his dog did, including eating an$8 ,000 laptop, which he thought would be a relatable anecdote.

1:00:37Yeah. And then. I think it is. How this dog inspired the other dog that's in the movie. Crypto. Crypto. Yeah. I was wearing heels and I had gone to the bathroom and I had to run back because I didn't want to miss Superman because I know everyone cares about it. And so I was just like standing, waiting for him to stop talking about his dog. And my feet started hurting. And it was just, it was interminable, Mallory. I think it sounds great. I'm not sure if you were aware how much of James Gunn's Instagram content is about his cat. But I find it riveting to follow. Well, I believe the hashtag he uses is Emily Monster or something like that for the cat who is named Emily and I believe behaves monstrously.

1:01:21OK, anyway, the void turns things black. And and so but so when he is the void, he's still he has like Bob or Lewis Pullman like out my silhouette. Right. You know, he is Bob Pullman shaped. but he's the Bob Pullman Louis Pullman Louis Pullman Bob Pullman is his grandfather right Bob's also his Top Gun Maverick character so it's pretty stressful for me and exciting but he is okay so the void is Bob shaped yes it's like sitting with Carl Sagan when you get into one of these sequences it's just amazing but when he did I'm gonna keep going yep like James Gunn keep going just don't stop keep going he disappears everyone including the little girl which was the one like gasp genuine gasp yeah everyone and I was like fabulous scene but so these people are just gone what was once matter is no longer matter yeah okay it is snap reminiscent very there is darkness there but the darkness does not take the shape of the people It's not even really three-dimensional, I would say.

1:02:41Right. It's like a brushstroke through your life. Right. And so then when the void goes away, they're all returned to their places. But Mallory asks an important point about Holt on the helicopter because he's there and then he gets voided and the helicopter keeps flying. now I think the MCU invites us to ask this question because this is I don't think we can overstate how much time people have spent talking about it asking about it and then the MCU answering it with what happened when you after the snap if you were part of the blip and you came back well what if someone had moved into your apartment or what if the thing that you were sitting in or standing in wasn't there anymore what if you were having sex

1:03:25this is why this is why this is not pseudo science corner well what is the canonical answer to that Well, if the person you were fucking, if Thanos had also snapped that person, you would both go back to the same moment. Okay, but. It'd be great. It'd be a little jarring. I mean, sure. But also, it's like. Not as jarring as it would be in the person you were fucking hanging in and someone else moved into your bed. But are you going back to the same moment in time? Because, like, what if you're, like, in a public place? I have an important question. Present day. But does the erection hold? Well, so this is part of what they've.

1:03:59Well, they haven't answered that, but, like. Right. Kevin Feige, if you're watching, if I was snapped mid-coitus and I was gone for how many years were they gone? Five years. And I returned. Yeah. Would my erection hold? I challenge you, Kevin Feige. Jack, can you just clip Sean saying, would my erection hold and make sure we have that for Instagram and TikTok? Thanks. But there was a lot of explanation about how Hulk, when he was bringing people back, had an incredible amount of control. over. So I think part of what you'd have to confront is that Bruce Banner was like thinking about your dick.

1:04:37Uh, it could be worse, I guess. I don't know. Worse things I've heard. Wait, why? Because he's like, should Sean come back like at full mast? Oh, because he's in charge of all of it. Yeah. Interesting. So he's largely responsible for bringing this all back. Oh, he was. And so he could decide. Would you prefer to have been snapped or, or exist inside of a world where there was a snap. Definitely snap. Yeah, of course. That's an easy one. Are you kidding? You want to spend five years? I mean, I guess the answer... If you get to share a peanut butter sandwich with Steve Rogers and Natasha and talk about your grief, talk about how much you miss the Mets.

1:05:17Yeah, sure. Which happened. I mean, it's tough, right? I mean, what happens to the kids? You know, that's like the... Like, I mean, if my family was snapped, I would want to be snapped. Right. If my family was not snapped, we can hang out, figure it out. But the world is broken. But yeah. Yeah. What if you got snapped out mid pod?

1:05:40Okay. Okay. Do I keep going? Do I finish with my thoughts? We didn't go back to it. So you get voided. Yeah. Which I do like pretty much every episode at some point. You know, it's like you start talking about chicken jockey and I'm just like, can we add those effects in how do we get that shadow effect can we like call ILM and just get you shadowed out you know how I wanted a buzzer like anytime things go really bad I'll just hit the buzzer and then I void out and then I can come back once you stop your bullshit okay so you get voided and then you come back but do you return to the is it snap rule or are there who are you asking I mean that kid the kid was like just there on the sidewalk yeah you know so whole like I guess there's no helicopter to go back into because that was actually destroyed so does he just go into the middle of the sky and then fall I mean I guess we have to hope so now it didn't get very far like we cover Manhattan we blanket Manhattan that's a lot of people but this isn't like half of the universe like with Thanos right so it's a little bit more controlled it's like a thousand people I guess it's like ultimately a million people when the whole city goes black but I mean isn't it like 8 million right and but like where does that matter go you know is another important question where does it go where do we think into the void the void I mean Marvel is just a collection of various different dimensions and pocket universes at the end of the day well put you know so part of the journey of this one was moving into your own void is memory and then each other's, your pain is their pain, a villain or another dimension?

1:07:20Why not both? Well, I'm asking the questions here. Yeah. I mean, the void as a character, as a person, is part of Bob's essence and also is bringing people into these trauma prisons, you know? Okay. And then our characters on their journey to found family moved through their own individual pain into each other's pain because that was the message of the movie that only together could they could they pull themselves out of that beautiful beautiful stuff do you think the kid who took a shit in the middle of the field i mean that was ohio so she probably she didn't enter the void but if she had what would her trauma vision have been would it have been when she had diarrhea it was in the middle in.

1:08:07Do you thought she intentionally took a shit? They make it sound that way. Oh, like just like drop trowel and was like, fuck this, we haven't won a game. I'm taking a shit in the middle of the field. We're closer to potty training, you know, but it's just like someone you gotta poop, you gotta poop. Oh, I see. I thought this was like, I got the sense that this was like, you know, a pregame chili dog gone awry in the middle of the match. No? I haven't given it a lot of thought. but I think also like the way the way that they do the joke I did think there was like a dropping trowel aspect in instead of an accident you know which and if you're getting if you're dropping trowel then there's intentionality most you know right as we've learned from the toddlers in our lives circle us back to Valentina's press conference at the end of the film that was great when she walked she'd just come right through here they walked through the curtain This is good.

1:09:00The makeshift curtain. I need to let you guys know that. So I Googled Valentina's watch, you know, because I had some questions. This was your number one question. So she was wearing a Cartier pant there, but I was like, I haven't really seen it in rose gold that often. It obviously is available, but now I have it up and like Cartier has been just like the AI chatbots have been messaging me for 30 minutes being like, would you like to buy this$40 ,000 watch? How many have you bought during the recording of this podcast?

1:09:27Valentina very deftly introduces these characters as the new Avengers at the end of this movie. And then there's a great moment when Yelena steps up and whispers in her ear, we own you now. Which is what I whisper to Amanda after every episode. And, you know, this crew has taken the place seemingly of the Avengers, but I feel like actually of Guardians of the Galaxy. Like my take on this is that they are like still kind of the second or third team, but they're really likable. team. Yes, hands raised. At some point there was speculation. Why did you raise your hand? We're on a podcast. You have a microphone.

1:09:59Well, I didn't want you to get too far away from the naming and the reveal because there was a lot of speculation. Am I misremembering that the speculation was that they would be the Dark Avengers? Well, I picked that up from you guys. That was definitely out there. But I think New Avengers was also very because I thought it was a Dark Avengers block and I was like, New Avengers? That seems lame. That's like new Coke. I think there is a little bit of truth to that. And that is revealed once we get into the stingers, the first mid credit stinger works. We'll see how they handle it in the future.

1:10:35One of the challenges I think of this movie is that it is very delicately on this tight rope between arch post Whedon quippery and sincere at times, even thoughtful drama. and I'm not sure what these other movies that are coming are going to be and that's a very complicated thing whether or not they're going to be able to meet that and the new Avengers post-credits stinger which is actually like a real stinger of consequence that's the other thing I just feel like every stinger for the last five years has just not been about or meant anything to where the story is going this one actually does it literally is connecting to the next film it skips ahead 14 months we learn via Yelena complaining that Sam Wilson has trademarked the name Avengers great stuff and so they need to find a way to counteract this trademark infringement that they are engaged in even though they are working out of Stark Tower and that they are ostensibly the real Avengers and then they get like some sort of signal that there's a ship an extra dimensional ship entering their atmosphere Fantastic Four Let me see the Fantastic Four rocket ship.

1:11:48Did you care about this? I did that the whole drive home and Adam was like, please stop. I was like, not until July 25th. It set us up quite nicely for the next two and a half months. I mean, it felt very, you know, brand integrated in a way. They also, we saw this movie in IMAX, which was great. And they had a special IMAX countdown that was a Fantastic Four IMAX countdown. I had a minute where I was like, are we about to see like a special preview of Fantastic Four, which was not what happened. And, you know, it was a little suspicious. Yeah, it was like a lot of synergy and like PowerPointy, you know, brand activation to me.

1:12:32I did appreciate that it was not here's a character you may or may not meet in the next 12 years. It was like, this is the next movie. So it actually just from a timeline perspective, I was like, all right, 14 months. That's the time when the Fantastic Four in whatever universe they're in, when they find their way to our universe or the universe of this movie, that's when it's going to be. So it was like not nothing. I thought the mid-credits with the Wheaties box at the grocery store with Alexei was just very charming and funny. And I love him. And I just think David Harper should be in everything.

1:13:05That's pretty much my take. He's really your type. Oh, my fastball down the middle. Yeah. Oh, my God. I mean, Hopper in Stranger Things, I think, is one of the sexiest characters in the history of television. When your husband resembles David Harper. The bigger the belly, the better. I just love him.

1:13:24The melding of a few things of consequence in the post-credits. One, Alexi coming out in basically an F1 racing suit with the Z. like I got around the copyright by putting a Z at the end of Avengers and also just the little touch of all of the sponsors on this like an X-Box which is very funny. We learned something important which is like Bob is powered down. Right. That is I think a crucial and again to your point very like not in a bad way but you do you understand the formula of the MCU they have to explain that a character who has been clearly established as unbelievably powerful when Doom comes into the mix will not be using those powers.

1:14:03Right. So that will be a part of the story is like how do we power Sentry up? Of course. That he won't be using those powers? No, but that'll be part of it is like how do we power him up? We need you, bud. We need you to face Doom. It's just a great idea for the most powerful hero to also be the most powerful villain. Exactly. So that I thought was great. And then like the bringing you know, showing us the Fantastic Four ship. Wonderful. I think the timeline point you make is interesting. Anecdotally, I think a thing I have heard even amid the Fantastic Four excitement from a lot of people who are superhero movie fans is like, well, we know.

1:14:40Like, we know they got to make it into their continuity, and we know we're doing Doomsday, we know we're doing Secret Wars. So, like, does it take anything away from Fantastic Four First Steps to just assume that they're exiting at the end? I don't really feel that way about it, but I wonder if this, I do wonder if actually anyone will bump on that aspect of the singer. To me, it was just, like, euphoria, and I think a much better example of how to give us more detailed specificity and like clarity about a thing we know, which is like all of these continuities are melding, incursions are coming, we know what we're headed toward.

1:15:11The stinger in Brave New World, which was the leader being like multiverse, as you know, I thought was just actively like insulting. It's like we're two phases into the multiverse saga. Like, yeah, this was really fun. It was an exciting end note for the movie. It's an exciting way into the next one. And it's much more like in keeping actually with showing us Thor's hammer before Thor. It's like this is actually the next thing and also then the bigger thing. It's not only like a little wink to the next individual story, but also the larger team up to come. So I thought that was great. Yeah. And it's one more reason why I was like, this is kind of a 2013 Marvel movie, which was a time when I was totally at peace with 2.3 of them coming out per year and enjoying them sometimes.

1:15:50But very rarely being angered by them. so as I said 13 movies since Spider-Man Far From Home and since frankly since COVID yeah this is the second best one or the best one maybe the third best one not a Guardians 3 fan I love No Way Home and Guardians 3 those would be the two that I think No Way Home is I think better in my opinion it has higher highs yeah as a movie on the whole I think Thunderbolt is more consistent especially through the final hour but the excitement of No Way Home is kind of unmatched. Yeah. I mean, incredible. Those are the top three for me in phases four and five. I'll probably have to see Thunderbolt a second time before setting my order there.

1:16:38I really love No Way Home and I really love Guardians 3. I just, I mean the rocket stuff in Guardians 3. I just like, I could cry right now thinking about it. I loved it. It was great. Did you cry right in Amanda's face? I mean, I'm glad that he's okay. I don't believe in animal cruelty. So that's not. Brave take. Brave take. Interesting. Didn't want to hear James Gunn talk about this dog, but draws the line at active animal cruelty. Yeah. Basically, you guys, you do your thing. Yeah. And I'll do mine. Thank you for your service. Yeah. My somewhat tongue in cheek, but also not question in the title of this episode is, is it too late?

1:17:15That the feeling that I mentioned of the balloon being off the rose, that these movies are now only for super fans, that the normal movie fan who likes to go to blockbusters, but who has lost a sense of the continuity, hasn't watched the TV shows, movie fans not going back two, three, four times to see these movies. Is it too late? Can this be completely revived and taken us back to a place that more looks like 2014, 15, 16? What do you think? I don't think so, but I don't think that, well, I'm sure Disney shareholders won't be like, pleased with like the new adjustment but i think it can get to a new medium ground where the people who are fans of this which is like really sizable because right that's the other thing an entire generation of kids like you know including your sister sean like grew up being obsessed with these movies learn to go to the movies because of these movies i think movies like non-marvel movies are now experiencing the downstream effect of like kids being trained to go at least for a big event movie.

1:18:21So they'll keep going and that's a sizable amount of people. I don't know if it's going to be the most important thing culturally. Like in the same way with respect that like House of Dragon, which has like tons of viewers and is like a really big deal, is still, it's not really a Game of Thrones level, just like in terms of cultural import, but like it's doing great. And everybody but me watches it. And you know. I think that's a very good comparison. So, and I think that that's a good outcome for basically everyone except for, you know, capitalism and the corporate interests involved in this.

1:18:57It's a smaller piece of the pie for Disney. I think the comp ultimately to like people liking this, it doing well, and most crucially of all people being like characters I didn't think I gave a shit about, I've come to care about. Both in a way that will lead me to the theater to see it and then to invest in what they do moving forward. The comps are much more like Guardians or Ant-Man or honestly, even like something like Ragnarok, though Thor was very established by that point, than the Spider-Man movies or obviously any of the Avengers movies. It's just Thunderbolts was never going to be that despite being the Hammer film at the end of a phase and despite being a big team-up movie.

1:19:33It's just like that's not the tier that this film's playing in. So to your core question, the test for that is still, I think, this isn't the test for that. I think that if Thunderbolts generates enthusiasm that's just a win the test is going to be Fantastic Four the test is going to be Doomsday and Secret Wars and of course the test ultimately X-Men is X-Men for is it sustainable beyond this but see to me X-Men they can't they won't it won't get screwed up I think that they still have a chance even if they fuck up the Avengers Doomsday movies so the X-Men will come again after the Avengers probably at the end of Secret Wars would be my guess right because they have Yeah, I think that'll just be like the focus of the next phase.

1:20:14But I mean, yeah, we've got a lot of X-Men presence already, obviously, at this point. But yes. I think we'll probably see all of the Fox X-Men blipped out in some way in Doomsday. And whoever some of the new X-Men will be in Secret Wars would be my guess. But I, people, you know, I'm going to be like 50 years old when that movie comes out. And I'm still going to be like, I want to know who the new X-Men are. Which characters did they choose? What era? You know, like, I just, I care. Like, I'm just invested. Chris and I have talked about this. Like, we're getting old and we're still like X-Men is still the only thing that matters ultimately.

1:20:44So, and Kevin Feige knows that and he knows that he can prey upon that and also the fact that when you're nine and you meet the X-Men for the first time, you're like, this is fucking cool, man. This is great stuff. So even if the next three or four years are not ultimately that successful, this is a good sign. It is a smaller movie. It's tracking for $70 million right now. I would say that's an under perfect suggestion. To me, it feels more like $85,$95, maybe even$100. Yeah. which would be a big success, I think. If it underperformed 70, flashing red light. Yeah, but this should have such strong word of mouth, right?

1:21:19I think we'll have good, not great. The reviews are going to be good. We're in a different time with word of mouth. Don't you think, I feel like even just my anecdotal word of mouth today. Positive. Yeah, but like. My critic friends are like, this movie's good. Yeah, but like, it's not bad. Yeah, certainly not. It's not bad. It's not a disaster. Right. And even parts of it were accepted. The other thing that we would not have been counting on a few months ago, but that has obviously happened, is you've got the two biggest movies of the year are in theaters right now. So people are more likely to be in theaters.

1:21:49Well, the three biggest movies of the year are in theaters right now. Thank you. Are you just high on the hog right now with that? I mean, as you know, it's one of the most important movies in my life. And you didn't go. I couldn't go last weekend. I was honestly despondent. but as I told you and Chris last night and have mentioned on Ringer Pods before, it is the movie. Titanic is second. Just to restore our bond before I say the thing I'm going to say next. It is the movie I have seen in theaters more than any other movie in my entire life. How many times? Can we ever trust our own memory? Who knows?

1:22:21My recollection is that I saw Revenge of the Sith seven times in movie theaters. Like at its initial release. When it came out, yeah. Same movie theater or different movie theaters? Different theaters. Okay. different theaters but I couldn't get I fucking couldn't get enough Mustafar could not get enough and I still can't I rewatched it this week I don't know I don't know if there's time you have a chosen one I love that final sequence it's great so much of it is so bad I mean you know anytime Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman are in a scene together it is abominable it is one of some of the worst I'll invite you to revisit clones that's worse yeah Attack of the Clones that stuff is also bad and yet there's some fights that I really enjoy.

1:23:04Sure. Free cool kids, you know? It's a really good part in the accountant too where Ben Affleck's character is playing with the lightsaber. I was listening to Chris and Andy talk about this driving in. I was listening to Chris and Andy driving in today talking about this because they were talking about Star Wars Starfighter and like how that's actually kind of an inspired name for a movie and Chris was like they should just call one Star Wars lightsaber or actually Andy said that and then Chris was like I would go and then they talked about the accountant. Do you think Starfighter is a good title?

1:23:30No. The word star is already in Star Wars. This is like a show I really love is Rings of Power, as you know, but The Lord of the Rings, The Rings of Power is too many repeating words for me. We learned at the feet of great journalists and editors that like titling is critical. So it's Star Wars colon Starfighter? Yes. Who's the Starfighter? Ryan Gosling. Oh, that movie is going to be Star Wars Starfighter? He's just going to be in space. He's going to be in space for the next few years because he's also doing Project Hail Mary. Wonderful. Oh my God. Which is, I'm thrilled. I love that book. I can't tell you how excited I was.

1:24:03You're going to like Project Henry. No, I know. They cold opened with it after and it was I'd had several cocktails and then suddenly there was Ryan Gosling and I was just like I sent him so many texts about it and you had to actually at one point say to me this movie doesn't come out for two years. The implication was please stop texting. It's January 2026. Not 2027. It is? No, January 2026. Is it January or summer? I think it's January. I would have said it was like March but Project Henry. project Hail Mary movie this is great podcasting March March yeah I was right one year one year away I can't fucking wait it was unusual in the presentation at CinemaCon to open your presentation with a movie that's not coming after a year they had several movies this is Amazon that don't come out until next year and then one movie that we all thought was totally made up about Hugh Jackman and sheep oh exciting yeah you can imagine what happens in that movie he solves a crime

1:24:59any what did you think happened what did you think I meant no I answered your big gold question I won't be making the same mistake again any closing thoughts on Thunderbolts you liked it I had a lot of fun yeah I just I don't know I'm like it's refreshing to not be mad about a Marvel movie yeah I care about I care about the MCU deeply and I love comic book movies and I love the characters and I love the story and I'm so invested in this connected universe at this point in my life. But like the thing I love most about it is sharing it with my friends, genuinely not to be too corny about it. So it's like, it is actually exciting to have a Marvel movie that people are like not actively dreading discussing with each other.

1:25:40That's really just a wonderful thing. Six months ago, I was like, I know I want Mal to be on the Thunderbolts episode and it worked out just as I envisioned. I was like, well, let's not have an angry hand wringing like, oh, this again. Like, I don't, you know, I'm so sick of doing those pods even though they got to do it when the movie isn't good. Yeah. How do you feel? It felt nice to go home and be asked how the movie was and be like, not bad. You know? And I say that about Marvel movies and also just like about our movie going here. Not bad. And here's a link to a watch I would like for Christmas this year.

1:26:09No, I'm a tank girl. Yeah, I can't do it. Listen. Yeah. As I said, I thought it was a little too on trend for that character. That's okay. I liked the suit. We know Val is very presentational. It was a rough Q1. You know? For movies and for life. We've fully come out of it. Exactly. But it's like, we got a good Marvel movie. You and I were sitting there in Vegas on April 1st, just being like, we're like, we're struggling. So I feel, I feel uplifted. I was like, what happened to my beautiful movies? I was like, this sucks. And now I feel good. I feel, I don't know if I feel great, but I feel good.

1:26:41Yeah. All right, great. Well, no, thank you. Thank you. Where can we find you? Hey, check out House of R. We're doing deep dives right now on two of the best television shows that exist. Okay. The Last of Us and Andor. we're covering them at the same time and that's a thrill well they're airing three episodes a week so you are rapidly behind as of tonight you will be six hours behind that's fucked up it's their hour long they're an hour long were they shorter last season they were a little bit short there were some more episodes last year that were in the 40s I gotta finish the last season but I can't because I gotta watch 45 Paul Newman movies cannot recommend it highly enough I loved the first season great television show I really liked what I saw and then I had big pick work to do and then Zach went ahead so now I'm just like To move it up your list, I'm going to send you a link to a video, the title of which is One Hour of Mon Mothma Dancing.

1:27:31Okay. I'm going to send that to you. It will spoil something. I'll watch it. I'm open to it. Tony Gilroy for life, you know? Spark your enthusiasm. Yeah, Gilroy. What a time to be the watch. Thank you for being you. Thanks for being you. Thanks for being on the pod. Thanks to Jack Sanders for being him, the producer of this episode. Thanks to Amanda for all of your wonderful insights. Science Corner was great today. It was. We will be back next week on the show. What are we doing? Oh, my gosh. 35 over 35. 35 over 35. Oh, I love that. That's one of my favorite episodes of the year. We have not done a movie star ranking for people older than 35 in two years.

1:28:09So the National Research Group has done whatever the fuck they do and given us yet another bit of data. Charles Holmes and I also did this. Did you? We did a summer movie star preview on Jam Session. Very cool. Yeah, I'm going to be honest. Not a lot of movie stars in the firmament, but that's okay. Not ideal. Nevertheless, we will be doing it here on Tuesday. We'll see you then.