We’re So Back for Good: ‘Backrooms’ and ‘Obsession’ Mania and 10 Movies We Missed!

20:12Sean Fennessey:But that period of time, that eight or nine year period of time where huge movies would go direct to a streaming service, is going to we're going to look back on that as a complete oddity, like one of the strangest choices in the history of the business. Yeah. Well, also, none of them are very good. That's been a problem as well. I was thinking a lot this weekend. But we're more unforgiving of those movies when they go straight to streaming. That's the thing is they immediately got kind of like tainted. They were like, oh, that's a streaming movie. That doesn't that's not as special. I mean, it didn't help that they all looked like streaming movies and they were all edited and scripted and put together aesthetically according to streaming markers of how a movie should play, pacing, opening.

20:51Sean Fennessey:But anyone but you did that. Chris talked about this last week. And they put it in theaters and it made$300 million, right? So it's like, you can change your perspective if you just put a movie in a movie theater and see it with a crowd on a big screen. If you just put it on your TV, it's like, it feels less than. Yeah, anyone but you also just became a TikTok sensation and that's how it got people to the theaters, which that happens for, you know, gentle minions and one out of every 12 meetings that movies that help that happens for Megan one, but not Megan two, you know? So sometimes, sometimes I do think that it's, we can tell when a streaming movie is made for streaming because it is made in a, in a different way.

21:27That's true. I was thinking a lot about stranger things this weekend, um, in terms of backrooms and just, and really, um, feeling, uh, at a, at a distance from, you know, a young person phenomenon, you know, just like a very something that kind of hit instantly will make well made plays a nostalgia, you know, separate worlds and clearly speaks to to young people in a way that we're all trying to like keep up with and be like, yeah, like, isn't that cool? Right. But and that was on Netflix. But that, of course, was a TV show. And there is just something about the basic building blocks of. They have figured out how to make things in a longer and stretcher and more immersive way at home.

22:13But it does not fit for movies. It just doesn't.

22:15Sean Fennessey:It really has never. It doesn't mean that there haven't been successful Netflix movies. There have been plenty of them. It's just they don't feel as baked into the long-term culture because of the way that we receive them. And because a lot of them just aren't very good. And, you know, we see this year Amazon is now putting all their movies in movie theaters. And it's working, you know. Project Hail Mary. We'll talk about The Sheep Detectives. these movies are doing well. Masters of the Universe, we'll see. But nevertheless, they're trying. So I'm very curious to kind of chart in the aftermath of Cliff Booth and Narnia what they end up doing because it feels like they're on the outside looking in of something that is changing again in the culture.

22:49Sean Fennessey:And this is maybe not a permanent shift. These things always evolve and maybe the backroom's obsession thing will be over in three months and we'll never think about it again. That's in play. We might just have a really bad second half of the movie here. We don't really know. But I don't think so. and I do think that teenagers are switched on to going to the movies right now. You can tell based on all the market research and you can also tell just by going to movie theaters. That's the other thing I wanted to say is we talk about this stuff all the time on the show. I think about it all the time.

23:13Sean Fennessey:It's become a weird obsession of mine to chart this over the course of history but I'm in movie theaters all the time and I also talk to people who make movies. Most box office analysts only talk to executives. You can't listen to those people. They don't know what they're talking about. They're only listening to what people who are financially motivated and are using their previous experience are telling them to talk about. You have to talk to real people who go see movies all the time because that's actually what indicates where things are going to go ultimately. So it doesn't mean that we're without flaw in how we analyze it.

23:42Sean Fennessey:I make mistakes all the time. We can talk about our preview game. We fucked up a million things. However, you can frequently tell when something is shifting when you're in the space with people. I was thinking about one other thing too, which is like the young person component of this, making the movies, how Kane is 20, about to be 21, and Curry is 26. Yeah. And I was trying to think of who's the youngest person who ever made a movie for Disney. And the youngest I could think of was Domei Shi for Turning Red, which was just a few years ago. She was 33 when she made that movie. And I don't want to pick on Disney, but like it's about...

24:20When it came out, when she started it, when she finished it.

24:23Sean Fennessey:I don't know. I would imagine she was probably in her late 20s when she started. Yeah, which is significant. It is. I think those movies go through the long life cycles too. So maybe as she got it to the point of a game. I wasn't trying to age shame her. I was just trying to point out that those take a process and also the difference between 27 and 33 a lot changes. It's very true. Yeah. Saturn Return. It's going to be okay. Yeah, you guys will be fine. You guys got it. So Kyle Buchanan noted in his profile of Kane that Josh Trank, who made Chronicle at 27 years old, was the previous youngest person to have a number one movie in America.

24:56Sean Fennessey:Obviously Kane shattered that. I'm not sure that we need to let every 20-something make a movie, but there is something also interesting about how will older executives, heads of production, even movie stars, open their mind to working with younger people. It's yet to be seen. How old was PTA when he made Boogie Nights? Definitely 20s, right? 27, 28. How old is your close personal friend Spielberg when he started? He was famously very young. There are famously over time. He lied. I think he lied about his age. He got out of the studio a lot. You know, lots of young people. And then there are the older people like us who are trying to hang and maybe not totally getting it and also trying not to be too embarrassing about it.

25:43You know, like I can't. Yeah. I'm too old to be like, yes, I'm in the back rooms. You know, like I just it's embarrassing for everyone.

25:51Sean Fennessey:I just think if you're enthusiastic about this stuff, then it doesn't matter how old you are. But historically, there have been people who make movies and are willing to make movies who will hang out with young people. Yeah. You just cited like two absolute comets in the history of the movie business. Sure. No disrespect to Curry Barker. I don't know if he's going to become Paul Thomas Anderson. He might. He might. But usually when this happens, it kind of augurs a really big change. It is the new Hollywood. It is the 90s Sundance auteurs arriving on the scene. this could be that this could just be leveraging online fandom and a genre that is very applicable to the moment but it's just interesting that there's not a lot of studio examples of people getting a chance to do this it has to be more of a renegade thing and you're right I mean Ryan Coogler is not 40 yet right oh he just turned 40 maybe he just turned 40 May 23rd happy birthday Ryan Coogler I think he was 28 or 27 when he made Fruitvale too yeah right again more along the lines of this and Creed he would have been much younger Yeah, he was, I think, 30 or 31 when he made Creed.

26:57Sean Fennessey:I'm just saying. You've named three of the most amazing filmmakers in the last 100 years. Like part of the reason why they are who they are. I think this is another thing also to keep in mind and to have some respect for both Caten Parsons and Curry Barker. Not everyone is going to be a genius, right? And we know that studios and producers and everyone who has any money to spend is going going to be like hunting on YouTube or hunting on TikTok for the next great like Zoomer sensation. They will. And and many of those people are talented, but not everybody is going to be really great. And so I think to just reduce it to the age is unfair.

27:35You know, I hear you. I'm also just like, don't think that the next person you watch on YouTube is going to be a star. Like it takes more than that.

27:42Sean Fennessey:Yes. Right. Is that why we're not on YouTube anymore? A couple of other things about this. I've given this quite a bit of thought. Just a pure horror movie culture moment. There's something very exciting as somebody who spent his entire life obsessing over the genre for it to be at the absolute center of movie culture. And this has been the case for about 10 years, I would say. It's been about a 10-year stretch where we had the quote-unquote elevated horror moment. And that dovetailed into a kind of mass consumption moment. And I think that those two things are very connected. and a lot of it was kicked off by studios like Neon and A24 taking chances on younger, more inexperienced filmmakers who hadn't done stuff before.

28:25Sean Fennessey:I don't think this moment is necessarily like a problem for Universal. They have Blumhouse. It's not a problem for Warner Brothers. They have New Line. I am really interested to see if like Disney or Sony or Paramount or Lionsgate or especially Apple and Amazon like start to care about this because it's a genre that most of those studios have not spent a lot of time on. Sony has, of course, with Screen Gems and some other things that they've done over the years. But Disney doesn't really make horror movies. They don't really make scary stuff at all. They have in the past, but not really very often.

28:54Sean Fennessey:Paramount, it's kind of come and gone. They did make Smile, which is a really important movie to this moment. Like, what does an Apple horror movie look like? I don't know. Widow's Bay, their TV show, is fucking awesome. It's like one of the best horror things that's come out in the last 10 years. So I'm curious about that. And ironically, Neon and A24, like, maybe not as at the center of this right now. Now, obviously, Backrooms isn't a 24 movie, but I don't think they have any more horror movies planned for 2026. Well, you and Chris talked about this a bit on Obsession. Why are there no more horror movies in October?

29:24What's going on?

29:25Sean Fennessey:I really don't know. I mean, I'm sure some stuff will also get slated in there at this point, but it's weaker now. I think in general, I don't understand what's going on with fall box office. I don't understand. September is the new January. The new Q4, whatever they're all doing is not according to the rules that we have learned in the last 10 to 20 years. I agree. And I don't know what to make of it. And maybe they have better information than we do, or maybe they're only talking to executives. Yeah. I feel like last October was kind of soft, too, last year, whereas October's past have been really strong.

30:00Sean Fennessey:I'm not sure. I mean, A24 does have three movies on the slate, four movies on the slate that are all really exciting. I just don't know if they're coming out this year. One is Kyle Edward Ball's new movie. That's a Skinner-Marin filmmaker called Land of Nod. One is Panos Cosmatos' Flesh of the Gods, which is a vampire movie, I think, with Kristen Stewart. Charlie Pollinger, who made The Plague, who I met at Cannes, who's a lovely guy. His new movie, Mask of the Red Death, is coming. And Arkasha Stevenson, who made the first Omen, her new movie is also with A24. So, like, they're still doing that thing, obviously.

30:30Right.

30:31Sean Fennessey:But I made a quick list of the movies that had to happen for this to happen. Okay. Here's what they are. Okay. the first one is The Witch, the Robert Eggers movie. I remember. Which I think was a Sundance pickup from A24. And I think probably kicked off this era. And then in quick succession, you get Get Out and Hereditary. And Get Out wins an Academy Award. Hereditary is a box office sensation for A24. How old was Ari Aster when Hereditary came out? I think he was in his early 30s. Yeah. Okay, I'm just saying. 20 years old though. I mean - Well, listen, this is what I was trying to say to you.

31:06Sean Fennessey:You're under 25. Is that like, Kane and the 20-year-old thing, it's just the exception. You're not going to get another one of those. It's amazing. Congratulations to him. But like, you know. But so often it's like, I think Barbarian is a movie that I wrote down and I think Peel and Kregger are worth citing because they had entire careers as sketch comedy performers before they started making horror movies. And then Curry, who also was making sketch comedy, but then like cut out the eight years in between. It was just like, I'm just going to make a horror movie right away. I mentioned Smile, Terrifier, Air Terrorfire 2.

31:37Sean Fennessey:Those movies are a huge part of this. Skin and Mering. Talk to Me, the Philippo brothers, obviously being YouTube guys as well. Five Nights at Freddy's. I remember that. Is a big deal in this because that also is kind of like, you know, Gen Z, young millennial online culture. I saw the TV glow you cited when we talked about the movies. Long Legs and just the marketing campaign of Long Legs and getting people excited about that. And then last year, the double shot of Sinners and Weapons. And then this year, earlier this year, I think we're going to get to the end of the year and we're going to overlook Iron Lung a little bit?

32:07Sean Fennessey:The Markiplier horror movie? Probably not because people are already putting together their end-of-year YouTube packages. So I would hope that his phone is ringing. Yeah, I mean... Or his... How do you message on YouTube? His might be the craziest because it wasn't distributed by a studio. Yeah. And it crossed$50 million. But anyway, May was just amazing at the movies and we went to Cannes. Which I loved. You know, just a lot has happened. Everything's going really well. It was great. Do you want to check in on the summer movie game stuff? we have one month of receipts. Sure, I don't think it's going very well for me because, well listen not to spoil the greatest film of May pressure, but as we learn comps do not make for good weather and they do not make for good box office predictions or maybe for business in general, which I kind of knew I just didn't know where else to get numbers.

32:57Sean Fennessey:I think you had some major misses, but you had some hits and same for me. The other thing that I did was I, um, my strategy in general based on last year was like either really big or really small. And, you know, back rooms is a sensation. Obsession is a sensation, but they're not Minecraft and Super Mario Galaxy numbers yet. So the, the middle, just in terms of like actual dollar amounts is back a little bit more. And that was just not my reading of the situation and I was wrong. That's okay. But luckily, I've seen pressure now, so I know. Did everybody hear that? I was wrong. You know what? If we went back, I challenge you, honestly, to find me.

33:42Lucas. Anyone at home.

33:43Sean Fennessey:Lucas doesn't have time for this. When I am wrong, I say it proudly and cleanly on the podcast. And every time you're like, did everyone hear that? And they did because I do it. I don't know if I've ever said that before. Okay. So the game we played. You, on the other hand, just turn really red in the face and get so angry. even when we know that you turned to me in Las Vegas and you said Rey is not a Skywalker? That didn't happen. The summer movie preview game, how do we play? Quickly, the rules. Domestic box office total, we guess. Metacritic score, we guess. If your guess comes within one point, one point if it falls within five points of the Metacritic prediction, five points if it's exactly right, one point if it's within$50 million of the box office prediction, five points within 10 million, 10 points within 5 million, 20 points for an exact correct guess.

34:36Devil Wears Prada is,

34:38Sean Fennessey:I don't think, I think it's the, it's not settled yet. Okay. So this is interesting. So you guessed 210 million for the box office. I guessed 184. Yeah. I guessed 57 for Metacritic. You guessed 68. Yeah. The Metacritic score was 63. So we're more or less right in the middle. You got a little closer. Yeah. And then the box office get total right now is 209 million. So you're almost right on the money. However, the movie made$6 million this past weekend and it's going to keep making money. So I could be losing points. Yeah. So you have 11 points for your Devil Wears Prodigest, which is really great.

35:12Sean Fennessey:Yeah. And this is a game where we want points. We want to get points. Yeah. I only got one point here because I underbid. But it's going to probably end up going on like 225, 230. So then you're going to get a little further away. Yeah. Probably closer to six points. Yeah. How's it going at Coach?

35:29Sean Fennessey:um hokum we talked about yeah feeling good about this one um my box office guess was 18 yours was 10 I guess 78 for Metacritic you guessed 62 it came in at 76 on Metacritic and it's at 16.8 that's great there's a chance that I'm getting right on the money here I might it might get to 18 with what's lingering in the box office now this is this one's really so I have 11 points I listen this is fine this is the best one I screwed up this is the funniest one it's for both of us it's very funny Billie Eilish hit me hard and soft the tour live a movie we'll talk about momentarily on this pod I guessed 42 mil you guessed 160 once again I used the Taylor Swift comp because I am told among the young people that Billie Eilish is as important to the youth as Taylor Swift yes Metacritic 71 for me 65 for you it's currently sitting at 9.9 million dollars that's tough here's the other thing co-directed with James Cameron this is a brick for Cameron yeah a brick Metacritic score was 73.

36:28Sean Fennessey:So I was pretty close on that one. I got two points so you've got zero points. Mortal Kombat 2. You know, this didn't do what I thought it was going to do. I guessed 137. You guessed 60. I guessed 44 for Metacritic. You guessed 46. You nailed the Metacritic score. Exactly. Well done. There is no science to this whatsoever. It's very true. It's just yelling numbers. It's a game. Which is much like most box office tracking. Yes. So this is$77 million total box office right now, which is like fine. I think worldwide but it's the biggest Mortal Kombat movie for whatever that's worth. Is God Is, we talked about briefly on the show.

37:03Sean Fennessey:I guessed 12 million, you guessed 11. It came in at 4.6. Metacritic, 74 for me, 57 for you. It came in at 77. I got six points, you got five. Obsession. Yeah. I guessed 42 million, and I was nervous that that was too high. You guessed 15 million. I guessed 69 million for Metacritic. 69 for Metacritic, you guessed 66 for Metacritic. It's currently sitting at 105. And its Metacritic score is 77. We both get zero points. But we are rewarded with obsession in the world. We are. In the gray. This is a movie. What is this? Oh, right. You just told me what this is. This is the Guy Ritchie movie starring Jake Gyllenhaal and Henry Cavill.

37:45Sean Fennessey:Wow. No humans have seen this movie. I'm learning about this. Honestly, you predicted a 52 Metacritic score. I predicted 37. And I'm surprised to learn that In the Gray made it to 53. It did. but the movie was in theaters for two weeks and now apparently it's coming to VOD on Tuesday of this week so yeah I guess 37 you guessed 18 it's sitting at 5.6 I got two points you got one okay I love boosters interesting one a little early to be coming in on these next couple because these movies just came out a week ago but I guessed 18 you guessed 19 million Metacritic I said 81 you said 64 interestingly it's only at a 70 I thought it was going to do much better and the box office is at 7 million so we both get a point.

38:28Sean Fennessey:Passenger, haven't seen this movie, horror movie, that's actually doing okay business right now. Actually exceeded both of our guesses. I guessed 12, you guessed 9. It's at 15 million after two weeks. And I guessed 34 on Metacritic. You guessed 52. It's at 41. I got 10 points for this. I don't know if that's going to hold. Mando and Grogu. Yeah. Tough one. Tough one. I guessed 275 for the box office. You guessed 421. Well, it's at 137. I've already explained that I had a flawed strategy. Yeah. The Metacritic score is 53. I guess 52. You guessed 48. You know what was interesting? And this made more sense in Cannes where it's about, you know, the power of highbrow cinema.

39:09But then I was in Paris afterwards, like opening weekend of Mandalorian and Grogu, which you would think would be an international. I saw nothing. I saw absolutely no mention of Mandalorian and Grogu. In Paris. In Paris. Like anywhere in France. Well, when was the France release date?

39:23Sean Fennessey:Was it at the same time? I would assume so. I don't know. Sometimes they open a little bit later. Still, you know, there was plenty of no marketing whatsoever. And there was plenty of Devil Wears Prada left over. I assume that all those shows are streaming in France as well, but I'm honestly not sure. The next few are all May 29th. So like a little too early to check in on them. Pressure, The Breadwinner, Tuner. I did just want to point out that our guesses for back rooms are pretty crazy. You guessed 16 million total. I guessed 67 million. It has already exceeded that. I did guess 82 on a Metacritic score.

39:55Sean Fennessey:it's sitting at 77 you guessed 64 so I've got two points but we're definitely not getting any points on the box office on that one currently the point totals which will probably change pretty dramatically over the next few months you've got 43 I've got 45 we'll check back in at the end of July on this I just thought it was useful because backrooms and obsession just changed everything and you know like in my movie fantasy league that I'm in which was a flutter with conversation over the weekend I'll bet you know I didn't pick obsession or backrooms and if you picked obsession and backrooms you're winning now I'm cooking right now.

40:26Sean Fennessey:Yeah. And so I think I was in like third place and now I'm in like eighth place because I just didn't have either of those movies. It happens. You know, what can you do? Okay. That's the closest we'll get to you admitting any sort of error. I'm wrong all the time. Okay. It's frequently whenever I'm speaking to my daughter. Those are the times I'm most wrong. Dad, no. No, dad. That's I hear that a lot. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Okay. Let's take a quick break and then talk about 10 or so movies we missed. Great. Did you know about one in three people with plaque psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness and swelling?

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42:23Sean Fennessey:Carvana. Pickup fees may apply. This episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Boar's Head just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means planning your whole day around it. presenting the Friars Turkey Breast only from Boar's Head. A backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905. Do you want to start with the sheep detectives?

42:56Sean Fennessey:Yes. Some begging and pleading for a discussion of this film. Which we saw before we went to Cannes. Yes. And then, full disclosure, opted to save until we got back from Cannes. We did. This is a nice movie that I think everyone is maybe losing the plot. Just like a little bit. Yeah. Well, okay. So let's describe the details of The Sheep Detectives, which has just recently crossed $100 million in the box office. It's directed by Kyle Balda, who you may recall is one of the directors of films in the Despicable Me and Minions series. Okay. It's written by Craig Mazin, who's of course the creator of Chernobyl and the adapter of The Last of Us and one of the, you know, celebrated screenwriters in the game right now.

43:38Sean Fennessey:It's based on Three Bags Full, which is a novel by Leonie Swan. A cozy mystery. A cozy mystery. Is that the subtitle of the film? No, that's the genre. Oh, I see. But that's a thriving genre. Got you. A great number of stars in this film. Yes. In human form, we meet Hugh Jackman, Nicholas Braun, Nicholas Gallatin, Molly Gordon, Hong Chow, and your beloved Emma Thompson. in voice form Julie Louis-Dreyfus Bryan Cranston Chris O'Dowd Regina Hall Patrick Stewart Bella Ramsey and Brett Goldstein here's the plot George Hardy is a shepherd who loves to read murder mysteries to his sheep never suspecting that they can understand him when George is found dead under mysterious circumstances the sheep decide to solve the crimes themselves even if it means leaving their meadow for the first time and facing the fact that the human world isn't as simple as it appears in books now you and I saw this with a fear that we were not doing right by the show by having an immediate review of the film.

44:36And then we both saw it on the eve of our trip to Europe.

44:40Sean Fennessey:And we were like, I think this can wait. We were like, this is nice, but... Yeah, and it is nice. And I don't want to ruin anybody's good time. I had a perfectly pleasant time at the film. I thought of you a bit while watching it because, of course, you love a mystery. I'm a connoisseur of this genre. Yes. But, you know, even on the cozy mystery, spectrum that I just referenced. I tend towards the Richard Osmonds and the Anthony Horowitz's and the little more real life based, a little bit harder edge, fewer talking animals. And the other thing about this is that this is a mystery that is also like, if not a parody, than a send-up or a comment on the genre of the murder mystery.

45:29And it's very self-aware. And the sheep are making jokes about how a murder mystery works because they've learned all that from Hugh Jackman, the shepherd. And they learn their, they use their reading habits to apply the trades of like the detective craft to the mystery in question and to assemble everyone at the end to do the big reveal. You know, they hit all the beats and they are aware that they're hitting all the beats. you know I appreciate the metaness of it they've definitely read a lot of murder mysteries I don't need a comment I still just like a murder mystery where it all happens and then at the end you you are gathered together and if you're gonna be meta I think I prefer something like Anthony Horowitz who in addition to writing like four different mystery series he does the continuations of the James Bond novels and I think he makes British TV.

46:22He's very busy. They are... The meta-ness is way more structural and self-congratulatory but also clever as opposed to whimsical. I'm not a whimsical person is I think what it comes down to.

46:42Sean Fennessey:Yeah, I understand that. I'm not sure if I saw this so much as a send-up as much as a mash-up. Like, I think it's really like babe meets Agatha Christie. You know, like that is really what it's trying to do. Now, it is very remedial in terms of its mystery quality. It's not the most sophisticated. I will say about halfway through, I was like, this is pretty clear what's happening here. It's shocking for my five-year-old. She had no idea that this was coming. And this was, and that, in a way, I appreciated hearing from her. I didn't see this with her. My wife took her while we were away. But I liked talking to her about it because I watched her get interested in this kind of storytelling.

47:21Sean Fennessey:And she was very confused why a person would even be murdered. And that's complicated to explain to a young kid. But the movie is very warm. It's very kind, even though it's about a murder. It made me think about, did you read or watch the adaptation of Encyclopedia Brown at all when you were a kid? Loved reading Encyclopedia Brown. I don't remember watching it. I think there was a TV series as well, but the books were so good. I read every single one of those. I know. And it brought me back to the feeling of reading Encyclopedia Brown where you're kind of like, so this is riffing on Arthur Conan Doyle.

47:53Sean Fennessey:Right. Kind of like doing the kid version of it. And like every kid needs that. I think it's a cool movie for 14 year olds. And if you like a cozy mystery, it's nice too. It's a very pleasant movie. The jokes are fine. It necessitates a kind of like goofy performance style that like Nicholas Braun is great at. But I don't know. it feels a little overstated the enthusiasm for it but I don't want to ruin anyone's day I'm glad everybody had a nice time you know and it's funny before we went to canon before Obsession and Backrooms this was like a wow can you believe that people are going to the movies and like crying about talking sheep in a detective story that's definitely either for 85 year olds or 5 year olds yes quite a few old people in my screening right yeah there was no one in my screening oh really yeah at 2 p I texted you because there was no one else there so I was allowed to get out my phone and say there's no one here yeah you know it's doing well it's doing well and once again Hugh Jackman undefeated sure he can do anything sheep talking to sheep believably reading to sheep I thought it was good yeah any other thoughts on the sheep detectives will there be a second film probably feels like is this part of a series I don't You know, I don't know because I have not read any Leonie Swan, even though I do own some because my husband, you know, when he travels, will go to the local bookstore and buy some like joke Amanda Coded books.

49:25And I did get a Leonie Swan book brought back to me. I only realized this after the fact. Not the last time in this list that I will say, oh, I didn't realize that I accidentally own or consumed part of this novel.

49:38Sean Fennessey:Okay. let's um let's stay firmly in your your comfort zone here um let's talk about pressure oh I'm sorry like you didn't have the time of your life I had a great time I'm not I didn't have as great a time as you did though I've not seen you vibrating out of a movie theater like this in some time but we're talking about pressure which is in the new film directed by Anthony Maris uh it's pressure colon the untold story of D-Day is that the actual title that is the title well no pressure is the I think that's a tagline um I don't know. What are we calling it? It's like the subhead. I don't think movies have subheads.

50:13Sean Fennessey:It's on the poster as the subhead. Okay. And also in all of the commercials running during the NBA playoffs. Yeah. It is definitely on the, it is pressure. The untold story of D-Day, just like it's Top Gun Maverick. No, that's not correct. But okay. Maybe they should have made it the title. They definitely have untold story of D-Day at the end of every single commercial show during basketball. I think they'd need to explain what it means because pressure is a kind of a vague title, but it is an appropriate title and a kind of double entendre. The story of pressure is as follows. The fate of the free world hangs in the balance as General Dwight D.

50:49Sean Fennessey:Eisenhower and meteorologist Captain James Stagg face an impossible choice. Launch the D-Day invasion or risk losing World War II altogether. First of all, what a premise. Just absolutely just crack, you know, and if you like a certain kind of cozy dad movie. this is the Neplus Ultra of dad movies it is so perfectly calibrated for what you want from a movie like this exactly so it stars Andrew Scott Brendan Fraser Carrie Condon Chris Messina Damien Lewis and a whole horde of silver foxed stern British men having serious conversations in war rooms they've taken over a country home I believe Suffolk House okay and they everything is wood paneled I think there is actually like a spinning globe like there is in Inglourious Bastards.

51:42They don't open the top, but you, you know, you like to think at some point that'll happen.

51:46Sean Fennessey:Churchill invoked, but not seen in this film. Yes. And there is a lot of yelling. There are a lot of weather maps. Lots of maps. The most thrilling part to me was the first title card. or within minutes, they give you a time and place, and they say 72 hours until D-Day. And then they yell, D-Day will be June 5th, like 45 ,000 times. And of course, we all know that D-Day was in fact June 6th. Yes, and you turned to me immediately. Did you not know that it was June 6th? I did not. I know that because it's also Ruthie Barron's birthday. Okay. so it's and rich baron father-in-law would never let you ignore the fact that the birthday was also D-Day so the date of D-Day what's the implication there that that's when she took over the shores of the baron family he's a history dad okay yeah I mean aren't we all this film makes all of us history dads you gotta know that June 6th is also D-Day yes that's helpful to know because so the tension is there and they just yell about June 5th for at least 90 minutes yes and then there is the climactic moment when uh Ike Dwight D.

52:57Eisenhower as played by Brendan Fraser, who the first 10 minutes, I was like, this is an unmitigated disaster. And then by the end, I just, I was like, this is a man in crisis who doesn't know what to do. Let me just say,

53:11Sean Fennessey:Brendan Fraser is not Ike. Like that's just, this is not good casting. And it's not a bad performance. No. It's a good performance because you're fully invested in the story and his kind of frustration and confusion, but also his willingness to hear out Stagg, who's played by Andrew Scott, is the centerpiece of the narrative of the movie. It's the primary conflict. It's the primary relationship. But have you looked at a photo of Dwight D. Eisenhower? Yes, I have. I've seen that. He's not looking at British Fraser. I agree. And I also, you know, the accents against the very uptight British accents.

53:43And Andrew Scott is playing Stagg as British Miranda Priestly. Yes. He does like the no-no. He does that's all. So there's a clash, which is intentional. because that sets up one of the major tensions of the movie.

53:58Sean Fennessey:Two pressure systems colliding. But also you're like, oh no, this is going to be really, really awful. And then they settle in and you become really invested in pressure systems and Northern Ireland and weather stations and balloons. And you need atmospheric pressure as well as, you know, they're not checking all the right data. And I just, I mean, just a couple electric moments, including when Andrew Scott yells when he finally loses it in one of the great cabinet meetings. And he's like, what he's not mentioning is the summer of 1916. And you're just like, yes, you're screaming about an unpredicted hurricane.

54:39It was great. But that is like the true peak of the drama is Andrew Scott just yelling about like a heretofore unmentioned weather system.

54:50Sean Fennessey:But why has he not mentioned it up until that moment in the movie? It's like his big reveal. It's called drama. Yeah, I guess so. And then also, I mean, I just. And so Chris Messina's character just completely overlooks 1916? Yeah, well, he's cherry picking the data, as we know that statisticians do. I know, I know. And that's what, that's what, obsession can go to number one. The Knicks can be in the finals. Like, this data is meaningless. All we need to do is follow our hearts and our instincts, as Stag does here. Andrew Scott, just one of the guys right now. Just will watch him do anything.

55:24Sean Fennessey:This is a very odd part about a very recessed man who's having a lot of difficulty. His wife is pregnant. He's left her at home so that he can work as the chief meteorologist in northern Europe during World War II. What a very strange job that is. I never would have thought you could build a movie around this character. This movie very effectively does that. They sure do. And then I have to be honest, when it's time to dramatize the weather, they dramatize the weather. That was another extremely exciting moment. The big reveal of this movie is great. It's literally biblical. It's beautiful. This is a fun movie.

55:54Sean Fennessey:It's a very particular flavor. You have to like this kind of World War II storytelling, this kind of men in rooms kind of barking at each other about the fate of the world as we know it. You have to channel your inner history, Dad. Yes. And we did also see it at 1 p.m. on a Friday, which I think was... Yes, also with many old people, many retirees. Some young people who we met after. Yes, we did, and they were also fired up. It's a fun time at the movies if you dig this kind of movie. I would recommend people check it out. Any other thoughts on pressure? no but maybe I'll just yell what you're not mentioning throughout the rest of this that's good that is a Sorkinian moment in the movie Carrie Condon once again playing the gal who makes sure the guys are okay becoming a bit of a thing here Banshee's into Sharon F1 she keeps popping up as like oh you're a wee fool but you'll be alright there's one more oh Train Dreams Train Dreams yeah she's being typecast my beautiful Carrie Condon okay why did she and the wife look so similar.

56:52And then they did some cuts intentionally.

56:56Sean Fennessey:I think that's on purpose. He needed a kind of a female support system. Okay. A woman who believed in him. Right. But the way that they edit it suggests for a little while that Carrie Cotten is going to replace the wife. I didn't see it that way. You were shipping them? I wasn't shipping them. I was a little concerned that the editor was. And I was like, I don't know. Let me ask you this. Yeah. A lot of these movies, they have this trope of the man who has the answers, but he's so stormy inside that he needs a woman who can look him in the eyes and say, I believe in you. Follow your light. Follow your path.

57:28Sean Fennessey:Do you feel that you need a man who believes in you to be great? I have one. Yeah. Knox? Who is it? But also the other half is that they need a woman to believe in them to be great. Yeah. and also to like handle all plans and logistics, you know, and she's just like, here's how you're going to get from A to B. And I handle all the correspondence and I know when you need to eat and when you need to beware. And I don't have anyone doing that for me. I'm still the planner. I'd still, when it's, you know, not on this show. Well, no, not on this show, but when we travel, that's true. You know, like, where are you eating?

58:08Sean Fennessey:Exactly. It's like, where do we go? what's going to be the, you know. Well, I believe in equality among genders. Okay, that's beautiful. That's how I see things. We both do things very well. Okay, let's talk about I Love Boosters. Okay. So this is the new film from Boots Riley, his first movie since Sorry to Bother You. Boots was on the show for that movie, a movie I really liked. On my way to the office today, I was listening to The Coup, which is Boots' hip-hop group that he was in starting in the early 90s that I was a huge fan of in the 90s and 2000s. and the first line of the first song on his first album is presto read the communist manifesto and i love boots and i've always loved boots i'm fascinated by his career and the way that he has like creeped into the mainstream yeah in a way that i never would have guessed when he was making his albums are called steal this album genocide and juice like he he really is like an on the edge genuine progressive artist who has made a new movie with Kiki Palmer, Naomi Ackie, Taylor Page, Poppy Liu, Aiza Gonzalez, Lakeith Stanfield, Will Poulter, Don Cheadle, and Demi Moore.

59:16Sean Fennessey:The movie is about professional shoplifters who embark on a wild adventure as they target a cutthroat fashion mogul. This movie has more creativity in its right thumb than in almost any movie you'll see this year. And yet, I don't think this movie works at all. And so it's like a fascinating thing that I'm like ready to pull apart with you. I say this is somebody who roots for boots, but I was like, this didn't hang together for me. Well, that's the thing, right? It doesn't hang together. I think it works beautifully in details and in moments and whether it's a specific image or a color or a joke or a political observation that are all threaded together, not even scene by scene, but really kind of 20 second clip within 20 second clip there is so much that it is smart and funny and insightful and unlike anything you've ever seen and like visually memorable which is very memorable you know respectfully to pressure not something that i can really say no um pressure looks like every other movie made just like it this movie looks like no other movie yeah but i would say like much like backrooms the what the more like movie it tries to be like the you know the basic plot of the of the film and the character character arcs, quote unquote, don't really gel, don't seem to matter as much as all of the much smaller but bigger ideas nestled within the movie.

1:00:41And, you know, I didn't really understand, like, it's cool to make a movie about fashion. And again, that offers a lot of visual possibilities. But I was like, why is Demi Moore as a fashion mogul, the villain of this weird movie? Yeah. We should talk about that.

1:00:59Sean Fennessey:I mean, I'm interested in it. So, you know, in the 90s in New York, like, boosting was a real thing. Right. And you had kids kind of ripping and running polo gear and Tommy Hilfiger gear. And that was a huge moment, you know, in hip-hop culture that kind of spread out wide. And some of it was considered, like, this kind of mischievous, rebellious culture. Some of it was considered a political statement. Right. There's a long history of this. the movie has like I think a lot of the mischief and the kind of blow it up detonation quality that a lot of Boots' music has it's interesting that he almost every character in this movie is a woman and that he has completely repositioned this story to be about women seizing power but against other women who are participating in a much wider culture of Capitalistic brainwashing, effectively.

1:01:53Right. And I really want to know what you think.

1:01:56Sean Fennessey:We saw this together and did not say a word to each other about it. Because I'm super interested in situating the world of fashion as the epicenter of the kind of misdeeds of capital culture. I mean, it's perceptive. Interceptive. And in some ways, I do think, I mean, you know, literal, it's that Jeff Bezos, you know, started a retail operation and, you know, started with books and buying like all of the junk that you either don't need or could have previously gotten a target. and now he's gotten a huge amount of money and is like buying his way into the Met Gala and you know Devil Wears Prada 2 has a Bezos like character it's sort of like the pinnacle of a certain kind of performative wealth and that it is a and also that it signifies you know quite literally like you can see the money and it sets the expectations of how to spend money.

1:03:01And, you know, embedded within that is the idea that the money is the goal. So I think it's savvy in that sense. I didn't, but this is the thing. And obviously, like, you know, the boosting culture and the political implications of that are also, they're smart. But as the movie plays it out, it kind of like gets away from those ideas. is I didn't really understand all the specificities of the particular fashion company that Demi Moore is running, which is like, you know, they do drops, but they're monthly drops and they're all one color. There's like a, so it's a, it's not really a Supreme type theme.

1:03:42And there's also like an American apparel quality to it. I didn't really understand what it was trying to communicate in terms of the consumption and pop culture.

1:03:52Sean Fennessey:But like a high fashion quality too, where it was like, Christy Smith, I think is the name of the brand, and Moore's label is like the most expensive label, which is why they target her label for all this boosting, which is like one part kind of social terrorism, one part statement making, one part couture acquisition, you know? And it's kind of all of these things. And so he's kind of digging into, I think a really interesting psychological collision which is even if you want to make dramatic change in the world, you still like fly shit. Like that's a cool idea. You know, that there's something that even, even for boots who we ran into in Vegas.

1:04:30Sean Fennessey:Right. And still like, you know, he is a very fashion forward person. Like he is somebody who's thinking about the way that you present and that's baked into this idea, but he's all, everything that he does is undergirded by the power of collectivist social change. And the movie ends with like a very literal explication of the way that way in which he wants to see the world change. And I would say that I found it a little boiled down, ultimately, like how he saw the world changing, but and a little bit like kind of oversimplified to communicate the message. I agree with what you're saying, which is that in the in the minor moments, like in Kiki Palmer's performance.

1:05:05Sean Fennessey:Right. The movie is a lot of fun. And like in the grace notes of all of the media coverage of Christy Smith and the boosters and just, you know, the political social world at large are very funny. And it's like media, you know, media criticism baked into like B-roll within a movie, within a movie. So it's, there is so much, there's so many ideas, right? And it's jam-packed and there's always something to look at. But I agree that like on a macro level, it falls a little flat. Yeah. I think there's like a couple of movies I thought about like John Carpenter's They Live. I feel like there's a huge influence on this movie that has like a big reveal kind of in the second half of the film that I thought was very clever.

1:05:52Sean Fennessey:And that's certainly not a subtle movie either. Like the message that that movie is sending to you is pretty profoundly like we're all being tricked and there's only one way to break the code here. But as a movie watching experience, I just felt myself outside of it a lot of the time. And it wasn't because I disagreed with its political point of view or anything like that. It was more like, you know what a movie is trying to have a tone? Like there's an absence of pacing and you can feel it kind of moving in a shambolic way. When Poppy Liu's character comes into the film, it opens up this other huge global perspective on what is actually transpiring in this world.

1:06:26Sean Fennessey:But it also introduces a technology that is like sort of confusing and a bit elaborate. And we don't quite know what this kind of MacGuffin type machine does. and it does a lot of different things and maybe too many things to make the movie as coherent as I wanted it to be. I will say, Ayiza Gonzalez in the movie as Rory Cochran from Dazed and Confused was amazing. I loved her doing this. It was so nice to see her not just be like eye candy bombshell girl holding a gun. Like, to be a complete stoner was very entertaining. I just, I walked away feeling like a little limp. I completely agree. I will say the clothes are good and interesting and creations on the run, which is not always true in a movie about fashion.

1:07:10And this, for being a movie about the line between fashion as art or commodity or, you know, how that intersects, it had ideas I thought it looked really good and also was done in a way that it understood. Like, the color tones and everything really did speak to each other compositionally, which I thought was great. And then, like, a lot of the effects were practical.

1:07:35Sean Fennessey:which I appreciated. Yeah, it felt very handmade, felt very Jim Henson-y at times. A lot of the stop motion animation being used. That stuff was cool. Toon Yards' score I thought was really cool. It was like, I don't know if that score totally worked in the movie, but I liked that he made that choice to do something that is like, that has sonic cues that are wildly different from any other movie. Like it does feel like a completely different kind of a thing and I have to tip my cap to it even though while I was watching it, I was like, God, this is such an on paper thing that didn't totally convert.

1:08:03Sean Fennessey:Sort of speaking of, Billie Eilish hit me hard and soft colon the tour parentheses live in 3D. That's a lot of words for one movie. I didn't see this movie in 3D. Okay. I did. You saw it in 3D. I did. No kidding. Well, listen, I did the work. Wow. You really showed out. I'm the guy who does his job. You must be the other guy. Well, I think we know that's not true. So I saw this movie with my daughter. That's cute. Who likes Billie Eilish, but I wouldn't say is like overwhelmingly familiar with her work. She's not a scholar. When I was sitting there watching this in 3D, I did think a lot about how you said that your wife and daughter are both big Billie Eilish fans.

1:08:39And I was like, I wonder how this is going to go down with Alice.

1:08:41Sean Fennessey:Yeah, Eileen loved it. Okay, great. Because she loves Billie Eilish's music. So she had a great time. But I mean, this movie is very standard. So the idea of like James Cameron being attached to a dramatic, mind-blowing Billie Eilish movie, like it isn't. It's a concert movie. Sure. It's a very straightforward concert movie. This seemed like a cool concert. Yeah, I thought it was well filmed. I liked that there was a little bit of like, that when she was off stage, you went with her. And so, you know, you spend a decent amount of time under the stage as she's moving back and forth. And you either are the camera sometimes or you're, you know, following closely with her.

1:09:22I thought that was a cool way to film. And also, especially since there is like no choreography to film at this show.

1:09:29Sean Fennessey:That's true. well I thought especially at the very beginning of the film when you see her in the box before the bigger reveal that was very cool and I was hoping for kind of more moments like that oh is it that to Katy Perry part of me oh is that featured in that where she's well yeah you don't remember and then she gets the text from I mean now she must be very thrilled that she got a text that Russell Brand was divorcing her oh right and then and then she like puts on her Katy Perry face and rises up but she doesn't go into a box yeah but she's like down below did Charlie XCX go in a box in the moment I feel like she might have also done something like that.

1:10:01Probably. Or maybe I'm just thinking of a harness. I think that she's like in some sort of below the stage thing and then she has to rise. Well, this is a tricky one because Billie Eilish was the subject of a pretty long and expansive documentary about her life five years ago that R.J. Cutler made that Apple put out. Yeah.

1:10:20Sean Fennessey:So like she's already had what I think would have been the most interesting component of this. And, you know, we just talked about Madonna and Madonna movies on our friend Yossi Salik show, Bandsplain, which is coming out, I guess, later this month. And we talked about Truth or Dare. One of the all-time greats. Truth or Dare has what this movie has, which is like incredible live performances. And then the backstage stuff is amazing. It's what makes the movie. This movie's backstage stuff is okay. It's fine. It's nice. I thought it was amusing when Billie Eilish taught James Cameron about eyeliner.

1:10:52True. Yeah. When she's like, see, when you go out like this, he's like, wow, you can really see it from a different distance. Like, yes, James Cameron.

1:11:00Sean Fennessey:Something tells me he knows about makeup, having been making movies for roughly 40 years. I think I wanted a little more from this. I think I was hoping for a little bit more depth. And it's ultimately just the concert film. It's not a bad concert film. It was okay to see in a movie theater. But maybe the 3D, did that impact you in a big way? No. And in fact, I thought it was cool in the concert moments, but everything behind the scenes, it was kind of... I was sitting on the side, so, and not the best 3D technological projection, so everything was a little blurry. Okay. I, as someone who is lightly familiar with Billie Eilish, appreciated it just as a primer of, like, what's going on here.

1:11:37Oh. You know, I mean, I know some of the music, but it was interesting to think about her in relationship to, like, all the other pop stars who have made these types of movies. And even what they're putting on stage is so very different from what she is. So that's cool. I mean, that also means that my brain had the time to be thinking about those things. But that's fine. You know, we like an intellectual exercise. I will say that I noticed I immediately came alive the second her Charlie XCX collab started playing. And I was like, oh, right. So I'm just a Charlie girl in a Billy world. Yeah, I was Eileen and I were talking about this.

1:12:12Sean Fennessey:Do you think Charlie is in the number two spot generationally behind Taylor Swift where it's, you know? No, I don't think so. I would love for her to be. Statistically, I think she is. You think so? You think Brad was that big? No, no, no. I meant Billie Eilish. Oh, you said Charlie is number two. And I was like, no, I wish. Yes, I do. I mean, that's why I guessed however much money I guessed, which it made none of. What happened there? No one went to... I don't know. I just don't think that the... Maybe the audience just went to the show and were satisfied with that. Maybe the love for the most recent album is lower than where she was before.

1:12:52Sean Fennessey:I mean, her Spotify numbers are bonkers. I know. There's like several billion stream songs. I don't understand. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Maybe this isn't just something people wanted. Maybe it was the time of year when it was released. I don't know. I mean, the movie goes out of its way in a very similar way to the Taylor Swift movie. They spent a lot of time on the faces of the young women at the show singing along. And obviously, Billie is very inspirational to a lot of girls because she kind of rejects a lot of the expectations of a traditional pop star, which I liked my daughter being exposed to that too.

1:13:19Sean Fennessey:I like the idea of showing that like Billy dresses the way that she dresses and does what she wants to do in that respect. But the songs are still like pure pop songs. Like they're pretty working in a very similar tone and style as, you know, some combination of Charlie and Taylor and Chapel Rhone and Sabrina and Dua Lipa. And like, you know, it's all these kind of things mixed up in a blender. So I don't know why it didn't hit, but it didn't really hit that hard. Okay, we're going to introduce a new segment of the show. So this is Amanda's geopolitical corner. Yes. Are you ready? Yeah. Born ready.

1:13:53Okay, so I have seen two films that you have not. The first I saw nine months ago in Venice, Italy, while jet lagged with Yossi Salak, speaking of fans playing. It's called The Wizard of the Kremlin. It's directed by Olivier Assas, screenplay by Olivier Assas and Emmanuel Carrère, based on a novel, The Wizard of the Kremlin, that I bought in a bookstore in, I believe, Charles de Gaulle Airport and read three chapters of it in translation. Let's be real, I'm not reading in French. When was this? I think I must have bought the book in 2024.

1:14:26Sean Fennessey:Okay. Because it was a sensation. And so then it was translated and then it was sold at like the, you know, metro whatever store and that terrible terminal in Charles de Gaulle. And you thought to yourself, I want to read a fictionalized account of Putin's Kremlin? Well, it was billed as a thriller. a political thriller. It was sort of the Tom Clancy of, you know, France, Germany. Do you read Tom Clancy novels? I don't think I've read any, but I've seen all of the films. We'll get back to that when you were like, excuse me, have you seen the film Jack Ryan? And it's like, well, I checked out a couple, I mean the series Jack Ryan.

1:15:02And I said, I checked out a couple episodes because I like to know what's going on with Jack Ryan. You do like these worlds. You know, Hunt for Red October, Harrison Ford, Clear and Present Danger.

1:15:09Sean Fennessey:Shadow Recruit, of course. Sure, that's the Ben Affleck one? No. Listen, Ben Affleck was Jack Ryan. Shadow recruit is Chris Pine. Chris Pine. Right. All our guys have been Jack Ryan. So sometimes... Krasinski, one of your guys? No. I mean, I liked The Office, you know. Okay, let's go back to The Wizard of the Cremlins. I feel like you and Krasinski were like pretty close in like 2015. And it's gone a different path. And I have to say, you should be happy, you know. You mean, because people said I resembled him in some way. And you were also doing like the direct-to-camera thing. We had a tonal vibe.

1:15:40And you've diverged a little.

1:15:43Sean Fennessey:I'll tell you what, John Krasinski, very complicated reputation in Hollywood. He was on this show once for A Quiet Place. He was lovely and actually completely upended a lot of what you hear about him out in the world. Right. Maybe he was just performing. You never know. But he's still a big star with this show. A Quiet Place, good. I like it. I'm a fan. Yeah. Anyway, that's the next movie. This is Wizard of the Kremlin, which is a film in which Jude Law plays Vladimir Putin And Paul Dano plays his spin doctor, who is loosely, his name is Vadim Baranov in the movie and the book, but he's loosely based on real person.

1:16:15And it is about his time working for Putin and really working in Russia after the opening of the Soviet Union and the rise of Vladimir Putin. And it's from the perspective of the guy who the cynical kind of left hand man who or right hand man who makes everything happen and then kind of sees Putin getting beyond his grasp. You know, I've created this beautiful monster. And then and then here's how it goes. So once again, it features Jude Law as Vladimir Putin in terrible orangish short, like cropped wig and and shirtless, if I recall a fair amount. I thought Jude Law was great in this. And I.

1:17:07Sean Fennessey:Is that not just your Jude Law bias? No, I mean, part of it is it's the only exciting part of an otherwise kind of weirdly paced Olivier Assayas movie where people just like explain things to you in large blocks of text in questionable accents. And I just want to say that this came out before the whole Tarantino Paul Dano thing. And I saw it before the Tarantino Paul Dano thing. And I thought then to myself independently that Paul Dano was miscast in this. but that does not mean that I don't value his work other places. And we've all learned that many people appreciate Paul Dano. In this one, it's a weird accent.

1:17:44I don't know what's going on.

1:17:45Sean Fennessey:That's so funny because that's the most exciting thing to me about this on paper is Paul Dano doing a Russian accent. I texted you last night. I'm just downright mad I haven't seen this. This is a very specific kind of thing that I enjoy, which is like a preposterous political docudrama. Right. The problem is that it is more, it's not as preposterous as you want it to be, or it's preposterous in the wrong ways. Okay. It is a docudrama. It's not a thriller. Okay. And some of it is plotting and is now let me read you this, you know, political text. It's been translated through like four different languages by the time it's being spoken to you.

1:18:21Sean Fennessey:Yeah. I had a decent time. I don't think it totally works. Weird situation here where Olivier Assias, I think really one of the great European filmmakers the last 50 years. Yeah. Has been in a real downswing since this show started. So we haven't had as much opportunity to talk about his work. We both like nonfiction, which we talked about in 2018. And then in 2019, he made Wasp Network, which went to Netflix, which I don't think we ever even discussed. And then he made a film in 2024, Suspended Time, that I haven't seen, which is, I think, an animated movie. But, you know, this is someone who, he made Irma Vep, and boarding gates, summer hours, you know, Clouds of Sills Maria, Personal Shopper.

1:19:05Right before we...

1:19:05Sean Fennessey:Some great films. So I'm still holding a candle for him. I think, me too. And when you're able to watch this at home, it'll be like a, it'll be a real little, it'll be a pressure type treat for you in a different way. I'm looking forward to it. All right, so you've already, you teased that you did see... Sure, Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan colon Ghost War. Now, Ghost War. Now, there's two ways to think about Ghost War. Yes. Now, presumably, Ghost is sort of like a spook, like a spy who disappears. It's a ghost protocol situation. Which I understand. But what this made me think of is like, what if Ghost had a war?

1:19:40Sean Fennessey:Like, what if there was like a Lord of the Rings-style movie about warring clans of ghosts? Wouldn't that be great? That seems like a very you thing that I would support you in. Wait, I have to tell you a story. Yeah. I'm going to Amanda you right now. Okay. I went shopping with my family yesterday. We're having just like a lovely afternoon. Okay, where? uh well we went to get we were gonna get brunch at a restaurant in pasadena 40 minute wait we went across the street to a breakfast burrito place called b bad it was fucking amazing order our breakfast burrito walk to the back to wait for our order it is revealed that b bad is connected to the pasadena hotel and then you can just sit in the lobby or in the in the atrium of the pasadena hotel and eat your burrito there and play chess with your family as i did that's very cute we had a mile down the road after we did that.

1:20:28Sean Fennessey:Went to H &M. Just got some clothes for Alice, you know, going to school next year. Some summer stuff. Sure, at the Paseo. At the Paseo. Yeah, I walk by that H &M often. So we're sitting in the plaza area outside of the H &M. Recently redone. Nice benches. Which is very beautiful. Yeah. Alice is jumping off of things and terrifying me. And behind us come three men dressed up. One man is dressed as Jason Voorhees. He's got a hockey mask on. One man is dressed as some sort of axe murderer. And another man is dressed as the... Unspecified axe murderer. Unspecified. Or maybe I just didn't catch the reference.

1:21:03Sean Fennessey:And the third guy was wearing the heart size mask. I don't remember heart size, the horror movie that came out last year. Yes. And he was dressed as that killer. And I was like, that's weird. What are these people doing here? Why are they terrifying my five-year-old daughter in the plaza of the Regal Paseo? And we get in the car, out of the parking lot, we're pulling out, and I see in the local convention center to the right, Monsterpalooza is happening. It's been a three-day convention full of monster stuff. And you only found out. And I didn't know what was happening and I missed it. And then that led to a long conversation about ghosts and what are the best kinds of spooky things in movies to my daughter that was great.

1:21:40Sean Fennessey:And now I'm thinking about Ghost War and I want to see a war of ghosts. Okay. Well, maybe this could be just be Jack Ryan colon Ghost War without Tom Clancy. And it could be the ghosts of all the people that Jack Ryan has killed over the years. Incredible idea. I know. Listen, amazing things are happening in the big picture. idea always anyway this was not that this was sort of like the downton abbey movie version of uh jack ryan which after four seasons of jack ryan which i did not see and did not know that there were four seasons um they've they've made a film so wouldn't you you will be shocked to learn so jack ryan as played by john krasinski uh since we last met him has uh left the cia he's a he's a civilian.

1:22:23He's on Wall Street. He's trying to make it work as a normal person, but they need him for just one more job. So he's drawn back in. It turns out that the job that they need him for is that it's basically Bourne identity in reverse, where there is like a task. What was the Bourne program called? Taskmaster something? Do you remember this? I don't. Anyway, the program that creates Jason Bourne's, it's a similar thing. One of those exists and has gone rogue. But you're on the side of joe allen trying to get everybody down i see i feel like i'm watching spielberg talk about 2001 let the master cook anyway at some point sienna miller shows up because she's at my six and it's a joint task force to defeat whatever this program is called okay and this guy who's just running around london dubai uh new york i forgot to say guys that the way the jack Ryan is recruited back into the CIA is that he is on a jog on their West Side Highway.

1:23:22And it's all this is clearly all they shut down many parts of New York City in order to film him running outside. He crosses West Side Highway, is sprinting. He's on Greenwich Avenue for some at some point. And then he does an evasive maneuver through Bookmark, the Mark Jacobs bookstore in the West Village, which is featured prominently. And then it turns out that it was just Wendell Pierce and the and the CIA. trying to get him back. Things work out. You know, there are some setbacks. There are some ghosts added. And then I think that I think John Krasinski and Jack Ryan are going to stay in the CIA again.

1:24:00Civilian life, not for him.

1:24:02Sean Fennessey:He's working on Wall Street? Yes. Is that canon for Jack Ryan? I actually didn't look that up. I was too busy because there's an allusion to like a relationship that didn't work out. So then I went back and read all of the descriptions of episodes for season four to find out if there was like more to the love interest story. Couldn't pin that down on Wikipedia. So I moved on. Sounds like you should watch all four seasons of this series. I'll never see this. I'll never see it. It's not no shots. Anybody involved? So but, you know, so I saw one. I saw what's going on in Russia. I saw what's going on in the US, London, and then the, you know, various global communities that they terrorize.

1:24:44Just in general, not great. You know, that's my geopolitical report.

1:24:48Sean Fennessey:Times are tough. There's a real one-to-one here with The Mandalorian and Grogu, though, because that is also a movie that is based on a streaming series. And that very much, I assume that this movie feels akin to the series. Yes. Having seen episodes of the show, that it doesn't feel dramatically different. Maybe the stakes feel a little higher. Not really. Maybe there's a little more action. The opening set piece is a bunch of actors, you know, in a gun battle who all look just enough like more famous and more expensive actors that I kept being like, wait, is that, you know, is that so-and-so?

1:25:25And it's nobody.

1:25:27Sean Fennessey:They're just a bunch of hardworking men. That I was making about streaming movies and movies going straight to streaming. Maybe this continues to be a coherent way to do this. this is a TV movie it's a TV movie exactly and The Mandalorian and Grogu in many ways is a TV movie and it's probably going to do really well on Disney Plus yeah but we say that but you and I saw all three Downton Abbey movies in theaters and loved them I did love them but I don't I don't know if they were cinema like they would have hit just as well the second one was cinema because you aren't going to get to the French Riviera on that PBS budget you know okay but I guarantee you Ghost work Cost a shit ton more Than any of the Downton Abbey movies They filmed everywhere It was so crazy And poorly It looked quite bad It's too bad Anyway Thanks for watching this For this episode You shocked me last night When you told me You watched this Shocked me Well I texted you While I was watching it Because again I had some time For other things Went real deep On the real real So I'm up to date On all my things And I know what's up with Jack Ryan.

1:26:35Sean Fennessey:Okay, you're not up to date on Power Ballot. No. I'll tell you about it quickly. Interesting movie. Not a successful movie. Directed by John Carney, probably best known for Once, a movie musical that I like quite a bit. This is a movie that he and Peter McDonald, I think, wrote some years ago and that was in a drawer and got pulled out of a drawer and they were able to sell it and make it. And it's about a guy named Rick Power who's a wedding singer living in Ireland. And he is at a wedding one night and he meets a kind of aging, sort of washed up boy band singer who's played by Nick Jonas. He's not playing himself, but maybe slightly inspired by some of his experience.

1:27:11And they're buds.

1:27:13Sean Fennessey:They become quick buds and they have a little jam session together. And while there, Danny, who's played by Paul Rudd in a very likable performance, starts playing one of his songs that he's written. And it's an undeniably catchy song. And Nick Jonas, who's trying to kind of relaunch his career, goes back to the States. And he effectively adopts the song. He takes a piece of what the Danny character or what the Rick character has done and he expands upon it and it relaunches his career and it becomes a huge hit. And then Rick, who has no documentation of this moment and no documentation of this song recorded anywhere in the past, tries to reclaim ownership and reclaim his own sense of personal grace.

1:27:57So yesterday in reverse. Sure. Yeah.

1:28:01Sean Fennessey:There's something to that. a little bit less fame. Nobody else remembers. Yes. Including, you know, the song, there's a beautiful component of the movie, which is who Rick wrote the song for and what it means to him. Okay. And what it means for the song to be taken from him. Okay. That I won't spoil for people who haven't seen it. Is it a girl dad thing? I'm not going to say yes or no.

1:28:26Sean Fennessey:And I liked that. Yeah, I bet. But this is not really a movie. And like the way that it resolves, is not satisfying, I don't think. Okay, so copyright does not revert back to Paul Rudd? It's complicated. That's what, it always is. Yeah. I will say it's really sold by the fact that Paul Rudd is just winning. He's just fun to be around. It's nice to see him not in spandex. It's nice to see him not in an Anaconda movie. Just being like a normal person for the most part, even though there's some curiosity about why this American guy is heading up an Irish wedding band. Sure. But they kind of sell it, you know, as he fell in love with an Irish girl, moved there and had a kid.

1:29:04That's better than asking him to do an Irish accent.

1:29:07Sean Fennessey:I agree with that. People do. As someone who attempted one 12 minutes ago and failed. I mean, in general, with movies that are set in the present day, I think we could just be a little more, you know, understanding and accepting of this global community we've built. Like, people do move other places and they can just keep their normal accents. Yeah, sure. It's okay. Sure, I agree. So you're pro-immigration is what you're saying? Yes. Yeah, me too. Yeah, this hasn't stuck with me. Okay. I saw it a while back. How is the song? It's honestly really good. Sing it right now. I don't remember how it goes, but I honestly really like it.

1:29:43Sean Fennessey:And it's kind of like the only reason to see the movie. Okay. Okay, what's next? Oh, yeah. Remarkably Bright Creatures. Watch this this morning. This is a Netflix original film. Sure. Do you know the premise of this? I don't. Okay. so here's the premise which is that Sally Field is an older woman and living in the Pacific Northwest and down on her luck in life things have not gone her way and then Lewis Pullman comes to town things have also not gone his way in life and they not it's not a romantic thing don't raise your eyebrows like that they just they strike up a friendship and they teach each other things about the world you know in like a quirky small town in the pacific northwest here's the twist it is narrated by an octopus it is straight up which i did not know until i could play big place where she works at an aquarium and she's friends with this octopus named marcellus and then obviously louis pullman's character also comes to work at the aquarium and becomes friends with marcellus obviously who who is voiced by Alfred Molina and narrates everything that's going on.

1:30:58So you are watching this from the perspective, not the movie's not shot entirely from the perspective of an octopus, obviously, because, but he does escape his cage or I'm sorry, his tank more than I thought it was capable for aquarium creatures to get out of their tanks. Okay. But yeah, he knows a lot about the town. and the world. How? Because as you have, well, what is the title of this movie, Sean Phetasy? Well,

1:31:26Sean Fennessey:I respect the octopus's intelligence, but is he absorbing the conversations that are transpiring in the aquarium? Well, and Sally Field as the older woman is having a lot of conversations with him. He's sort of like a silent but supportive therapist. You know, it's like an emotional support octopus. Is this based on a novel? Yeah, I think so. Yes. 2022 novel. I haven't read it. Anyway, I watched this film. You know what? Parts of it were like the town and the little characters were a little funnier and sweeter than they needed to be. Once again, this is a movie narrated by an octopus as performed by Alfred Molina.

1:32:08So, you know, I don't know.

1:32:13Sean Fennessey:Lewis Pullman watch. Yeah. How's it going with him as a leading man? Well, I thought he was he was charming in this. This I kind of put in the I love lessons in chemistry box of streaming Pablum that no one will talk about. And things that he signed on to probably before the, you know, the glow up. But and maybe that's wrong. Before he became the future of the MCU. I guess so. But he wasn't bad. He performs a Radiohead song. What? Yeah. Because he's in a band. He's in a band. Hold on. It's from Pablo Honey. I forgot. to, I forget the name. He performs a Pablo Honey song? He performs a Pablo Honey song at the open mic night?

1:32:57No, it's not Creep. And, hold on, the internet's out. Anyway, so he's in a band called Mash Sausage, or something with a sausage. But they, many such names. They dumped him. You know, so his band's done. His family life is not solid. but he does like the local he meets a local woman who runs a paddle boarding shop a paddle boarding shop? yeah and Sally Fields helps paddle board? yes and it is a point of contention is that they are paddle boards and not surfboards and it's embarrassing that he doesn't know that Sally Fields facilitates a romance between them is the paddle board

1:33:38Sean Fennessey:the one you stand on? yes what do you think it is? I don't know I'm just double checking I don't want to get into a Lewis Pullman situation It's apparently like a great core workout. Oh, great. Okay, cool. Yeah, because you have to, you know, you have to stay still. I'll get right on that. Okay. Okay. So you would recommend Remarkably Bright Creatures. You've seen it. That is my report of Remarkably Bright Creatures. Okay. That's interesting that we spend time on that. You saw Propeller One-Way Night Coach? I did, yeah. Okay, let's talk about that. I want to talk about Mortal Kombat 2, but let's talk about Propeller first.

1:34:17Sean Fennessey:this movie is directed by John Travolta. It premiered at the Cannes Film Festival. We didn't go. You talked a big game about going. No, I fucked up because I went with you to the Steven Soderbergh, John Lennon documentary, which I shouldn't have done. But we were there to hold Steven accountable, okay? So now we can say... I guess so. The AI experiment did not work. Don't do that again. Of course I agree with that. John Travolta directed a movie. This is his first film as a director. I Can't is the Pablo Honey song. Oh, I Can't. Yeah. That's not a bad song. Okay. I thought he did a very nice job with it.

1:34:54Sean Fennessey:I would never have guessed that in a million years. Travolta wrote and directed this movie. It's based on his children's novel, which is called Propeller One Way Night Coach. This film is 62 minutes long. It's on the Apple TV Plus streaming service right now. It's about a little boy who goes on a couple of flights one night with his mom. Yeah. That's the whole movie. Uh-huh. He just keeps going on planes and talking about what it's like to be on a plane and talking to people on planes. Right. What was this? It was actually very sweet and kind of well-made, but this is a new form of entertainment.

1:35:29Again, a lot of attention paid to production design.

1:35:33Sean Fennessey:Yes, there was. It looks good in a way. And I think they used at least part of the exteriors of the TWA hotel at JFK, which... You stayed at it. No. I will be staying at in August. That's right. With my two airplane obsessed little boys. So I did watch this with Knox in mind. Okay. But not with him. No, not with him. He was asleep. Okay. And this would be way more appropriate than most things you show him. This is about a boy being dazzled by being on a plane. You just said that as if I'm just like showing. Yeah, you're showing him hardcore porn. And then you could be showing him this beautiful film directed by John Travolta.

1:36:12I'm being watched with center stage. Are they dancing at home? Yes. Anyway, this, but it's just really a little boy being like, which Boeing do you like the best and why? And I was like, I relate to this. Yeah, sure. And he doesn't want to eat the chicken. But, and so there's a lot of - Chicken cordon bleu. Yeah. There's a lot - You like chicken cordon bleu? I don't think I've ever had chicken cordon bleu. What in the world? But I do like fried chicken and cheese. Where would I have it?

1:36:36Sean Fennessey:See, the chicken cordon bleu preparation in this movie is not, to me, I've had it as grilled chicken, not as as fried or even like baked with the breadcrumbs. But I guess there are multiple preparations. But my stepmom makes a wonderful chicken cordon bleu. I've had it many times. But it's dairy, but the dairy is baked. So it's going to be OK for you. It's dairy. What do you know? It's cheese. It's like melted cheese. Well, I'm just checking in, you know, like weekly status reports on where we are. Chicken cordon bleu on pro. That's what I'll say. I've never had it. Would love to try it. so this this just felt like a movie made by my four year old with like slightly better artistic vision though he's really he's really coming into his own drawing bunnies with eyebrows now your son yeah not the kid in this movie not the kid in this movie played by Clark Shotwell first of all Shotwell that's a hell of a last name is that a real name I don't know Sean Shotwell could you imagine should I pivot at 43 that's like a it's a little too much alliteration Shotwell like a filmmaker I get it yeah Yeah.

1:37:38Sean Fennessey:Or shot well, like Jalen Brunson. That's great. I saw, while I was running around the Rose Bowl this weekend, I saw a woman in Jalen Brunson shirt. And I almost, and it was a very cool Jalen Brunson shirt. And I almost did a what's up. But then, you know, I'm not allowed to hop on the bandwagon. And that's what it would be. You're welcome as far as I'm concerned. I'm not. It's just, it's very complicated in my house right now. Yeah. The appeal of the Knicks to a four-year-old who also likes airplanes. Your household agree for the Spurs would be despicable. Absolutely despicable. If I find out that that's the case, we're going to have big problems.

1:38:11Listen.

1:38:12Sean Fennessey:The Spurs have plenty of titles. They don't need another title. Wemby is 23. He's going to have plenty of time to win. This may never happen again for the Knicks. I'm fucking in my 40s. This is like in Cannes. Remember when I told you another Philly sports-related fact that was just my husband doing something Philly sports-related and you started yelling at me for 25 minutes? Yeah, well. Okay. These feelings run deep. Anyhow, one-way propeller, propeller one-way night coach. It's a good movie for children. Is it? No, because it's... It's just a kid who keeps going, and then this happened, and then this happened.

1:38:49Sean Fennessey:Right, and so Travolta is narrating the, much like Alfred Molina, remarkably bright creatures narrated by an octopus, propeller one-way whatever is narrated by John Travolta just reading his own book. Yeah, it's a very curious thing. I've been thinking about Travolta, you know, obviously his beret and mustache combo that he was rocking in Cannes was memed very quickly. Travolta has kind of occupied this really strange place in the culture for the last 15 years where he's kind of become like kind of a meme, kind of a punchline. And he's already gone through, he's already had his renaissance and his return to greatness in the 90s.

1:39:26Sean Fennessey:And now if you look at his CV, he's made more movies since 2010 to today than I think he made in the 1970s and 80s combined. but the movies that he made in the 70s and 80s were so iconic especially in the 70s and most of what he does now is this kind of red box straight to dv like action thriller stuff and i don't i don't know it's like we were back to thinking about him the same way that we did before tarantino resuscitated him with pulp fiction where he's like kind of a punchline but he is a very winning character and even just hearing his voice narrating the movie something calming and nice about that but he's just got such an insanely uneven filmography perhaps the most uneven filmography in major movie star history.

1:40:08Sean Fennessey:And yet I still want to do a Hall of Fame for him. I still want to go back and watch all the movies. When are we going to do that? Including all of the Redbox movies? Yeah. I don't know. This is what it's all about. You're going to have to, that's going to be, like maybe after the podcast ends, you start another podcast that's just John Travolta Hall of Fame. That's a whole separate other show? Well, I just, I'm not going to have any time until after the four Beatles movies, you know? That's a lot of movies. So we'll do it in 2029. We'll do the John Travolta Hall of Fame. How old will he be then?

1:40:38Sean Fennessey:Okay, let me tell you about Mortal Kombat 2. Okay. Like the first film directed by Simon McQuade, written by Jeremy Slater, Carl Urban is here as Johnny Cage. Are you familiar with Mortal Kombat at all? Can you name any characters besides Johnny Cage, now that I've said his name? Isn't there something about like the finisher or something? Well, you're thinking of fatalities. Fatalities? Yeah, fatalities are here. That's when you win a match and you get to kill someone, kill your opponent. What I know, I have learned from you talking at me like this on previous episodes. First Mortal Kombat movie is all about establishing the lore in the world of Mortal Kombat.

1:41:15Sean Fennessey:The movie is a complete waste of time. Just who gives a shit? Mortal Kombat is a fighting game about killing people. That's what the movies should be. Is it in this world or another world? It's in an outer world and they travel all over the place. There's all kinds of experiences. I don't, let's just, there's realms. There's all kinds of realms. Okay. But no humans. No, there are humans. Johnny Cage is a human. Johnny Cage is an action movie star, kind of a Jean-Claude Van Damme meets Keanu Reeves type figure who is brought into the Mortal Kombat world to use his movie only martial arts skills and becomes a great warrior.

1:41:52Sean Fennessey:And that's kind of the pitch on this movie. Johnny Cage was not in the first Mortal Kombat film. He's in this one. Carl Urban's kind of the star of the movie and he gets thrust into this tournament of battle. And every time the characters that I know and love from 1997 are fighting in the movie, I was like, this movie is a 10 out of 10. Anytime anything else is happening, it's a zero out of 10. Like anytime characters are speaking to each other, I want to throw myself off of a bridge. But if they're not, if they're throwing razor-tinged hats at each other and slicing each other's heads off, it's the best movie ever made.

1:42:25Sean Fennessey:That's my review of Mortal Kombat 2. I was going to ask, like a clarification question, but I'm not. Keep it moving. Okay. Mortal Kombat 2, I highly recommend it. Also, never watch it. That's my review. Okay. Let's talk about Lorne. Okay. Lorne is the second Morgan Neville documentary about a world titanic pop culture American figure this year. He's getting into the habit of... In fact, he's infiltrated a friend group of sorts, as I understand it. Well, aren't Lorne and Paul McCartney friends? Oh, well, they certainly are. And I wonder if there's, you know, some connectivity going on there. The Paul McCartney documentary we talked about a couple months ago, Man on the Run, about his life in the 1970s after the Beatles.

1:43:05Sean Fennessey:Maybe Morgan will make one about our life after the Beatles and what happens when this show ends. This new one is about Lorne Michaels, who is the famed Canadian producer who created Saturday Night Live and has been at the helm of that show for most of its 50 years, though not all. I know a lot about Saturday Night Live. Yes. Read all the books, seen all the documentaries. love the cast all the casts I have affection for every every era of the show yeah big shared passion of Bill Simmons and I big early connecting point for us when I started working for him Lauren famously impossible to know don't really know much better after this movie yeah I didn't dislike watching it I completely agree and the the movie I think wisely and cheekily makes the unknowability a part of the the movie within the first five minutes and, you know, uses a lot of funny constructs in order to get around the fact that most of the footage that you have of Lorne, both sitting for multiple interviews and wandering around both his office and his, like, main blueberry farm, is him just avoiding the camera and being like, I don't want to do this.

1:44:16And doing his own version of the Lorne impression that we have gotten from every single Saturday Night Live cast member for 50 years. Yes. so I like I thought it was funny I thought it was it was it was entertaining clever

1:44:31Sean Fennessey:it's definitely entertaining and it's I think if you're more of a surface level fan of this stuff then I think it will probably be enjoyable and informative and there's a couple of moments that are amazing John Mulaney explaining Lorne telling him why he always receives material from people I was about to say that that's that moment is amazing so funny you know where he's like Terry Melcher failed to accept Charles Manson's Demo tape. I understand. And that's why he was murdered. Or that's why Sharon Tate was murdered. And kind of like how you interact with people. And the various people that Lauren has mentored and have been on the cast of the show, they're talking about their experiences with him.

1:45:09Sean Fennessey:That kind of thing is just crack to me and I always enjoy it. And pretty much everybody is in it except for Will Ferrell. Yeah, that's weird. Yeah. Why wasn't Will Ferrell in it? I don't know. And I guess McKay is also not in it as well. Yeah, he's not in it as well. but the vast majority of Lauren and his famous friends, Steve Martin, Paul Simon, they all sit for it. They all kind of tell different versions of like, Lauren's never going to tell you that. Which is, it's entertaining, but it's also kind of annoying. There was a Lauren biography by Susan Morrison that came out last year that is amazing.

1:45:37And she is like very briefly in it.

1:45:39Sean Fennessey:She is. And that is, that to me is like as definitive an account as you can get. She doesn't get so much farther beyond the surface, but there's so much detail in the book. A movie like this is so weird because Neville is really good at getting underneath the cultural meaning of someone. Even if he doesn't explore truly who they are in their soul because it's hard to do that in a documentary. He has been, most especially I think with Mr. Rogers, but he's done it many times in his career, capturing why a person, how a person cracked through to something deeper to what we love. I don't know if this movie does that.

1:46:11Yeah. You know what I mean? No, I agree with you. maybe its thesis is just ultimately that it's a Lorne thing the funniest of all the interviews is the Steve Martin interview because it's Steve and Lorne together at one of the three restaurants that Lorne Michaels goes to but it's filmed like at a distance basically like across the restaurant it's like a TMZ video it's honestly not that much farther from this if we were sitting there

1:46:41Sean Fennessey:if we were talking like this They are seated together like this. And Steve Martin is like asking sort of perfunctorily like expositional questions, but also being Steve Martin about it. But I think Lawrence says to him, I think it's Steve Martin who asked him, are you going to retire? And Lawrence says, no, he's like, because like the show, the show's from another time. And as soon as I go, like it will not, it won't be what it is anymore. Which is something that many people have suggested would be true. Yeah. But it was interesting to hear him say that. Exactly. But that is delivered as a matter of fact aside at a weird dinner in a turquoise dining call filmed from across the way with Steve Martin.

1:47:24Sean Fennessey:You know what? I'll take back what I said somewhat. The one thing that I thought was revelatory, which I don't think I'd really seen before in any of the other documentaries about Saturday Night Live, was the camera being trained on him while every sketch is playing out and the way that he reacts. His kind of restlessness and the exhaling, which indicates, you know, a sense of unsuccess in a moment. That stuff I thought was really insightful. And that's for the real super fans who pay close attention to this stuff. I wanted more of that. Maybe that would not have made for as entertaining or coherent a movie.

1:47:58Sean Fennessey:But a little bit more of that observational stuff I think would have gone a long way. And it's interesting that he did let them film in that way. but he also wouldn't talk specifically about his childhood or what informed his comedic taste. They still spend too much time on his childhood, but whatever. Yeah. I guess I don't usually like that as much in movies anyway. I don't like that. Also, you know, it's the third section of the New Yorker profile. I know. I don't care about the grandparents. Lauren is one of those people who just feels like he just landed on Earth. Yeah. He doesn't feel like a person who had experiences that then informed who he became.

1:48:27Sean Fennessey:Right. And those alien people are very special. They usually tend to make something very amazing. and their lack of internality is very powerful and I don't relate to it. You know? I feel differently. So, I guess I'm always going to be interested in them even if it makes for ultimately an unsatisfying portrait. But it had enough. It had the observational stuff. It had enough candy. Like, the talking head stuff. It had so many people. I thought the Chris Parnell narration was funny. It was funny. You know? It felt like papering over, like, oh, we didn't really get Lauren to tell us what we wanted.

1:48:59Sean Fennessey:Sure. But, like, in a clever way, at least. It was clever. I agree. I agree. It was kind of like the Pharrell Lego doc, which I also thought was kind of fascinating and fun candy. But I'm still like, I don't understand what makes Pharrell tick at all after seeing this. But I had a lot of fun watching him be in a world of creativity. So, you know, I love like Morgan's whole project. I think it's really interesting. It's just so funny that you have to watch him like contend with the subject that he agrees to take on. And they're all because they're so powerful. They're all so, they're fighting a battle even though they've agreed to be portrayed.

1:49:34Sean Fennessey:And it's an interesting thing. Okay. I just want to give a quick shout out to Tuner. Which I would love to see and I just didn't make time. I had to watch Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan Ghost War. Yeah, maybe we can talk about it more after you check it out. I feel like it's a movie that people are going to really find on streaming. It did pretty good this weekend actually. It was in semi-limited release like in a thousand screens. and it made a few million bucks. I had Daniel Rohrer on the show last week to talk about it. It's a movie about a piano tuner who is identified by a criminal outfit because his piano tuning skills, which are extraordinary, allow him to crack safes and he enters a criminal world doing that work and then things naturally go awry.

1:50:15Leo Woodall, Dustin Hoffman,

1:50:18Sean Fennessey:Leo Raz, Havana Rose Liu. Very old-fashioned and wonderfully entertaining movie that I think people should check out. Leo Woodall, I don't know, you think that's going to happen? It's been percolating. This would have been a nice breakthrough if it were bigger. What else is he... What else is on the... On the docket coming out? Well, he's in Tony. He's got a supporting part in Tony. Which is coming in August. He's in a film called Nomad, which is about a mysterious loner who has a bizarre condition that takes him to another place on Earth every 12 hours with no ability to control his destinations.

1:50:58Sean Fennessey:That's right up my alley. Oh yeah, he's in Custom of the Country with Sidney Sweeney. Wow! Yeah. What? Yeah. Oh, and also he's apparently Wait a minute. He's joining the Hunt for Gollum? Sidney Sweeney? Sidney Sweeney's gonna be in the Custom of the Country? I told you about this on a podcast before. Yes, Sophia was Sophia Coppola was developing it for years for Apple, And then basically she was like, there's not enough money to do this the way I want to do it. Or this is too depressing. She's going to be doing an English accent? So now Sidney Sweeney has taken it on. I don't know. So this is directed by Josie Rourke, longtime theater director who made Mary Queen of Scots.

1:51:39Yeah. But Custom of the Country is Wharton. So it would be an English accent.

1:51:44Sean Fennessey:That's what I said. An English accent. Oh, no. An American accent. Oh. Sorry. American accent. Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. My mistake. still I have some questions about whether I think seeing Leo Woodall and Matthew Goode and Hugh Dancy in the cast made me think that this is going to be are we sure this is not going to be like at least like kind of mid-Atlantic you know that kind of upper crust well sure I mean it's of the time but it's Edith Wharton and she's Undine Sprague who I believe is I mean I know she's American let's find out where in the United States she's from okay Midwestern young woman okay okay I mean I wish her well did you happen to check in on the series finale of Euphoria no thumbs up thumbs down I haven't seen it okay I watched two episodes this season and I checked out I know what happened in the penultimate episode and then I saw that Sam Levinson went on podcast to say that there will be no more Euphoria yes is that where he announced it apparently yes that's great or at least that's you know I I follow Joe Coscarelli on Instagram.

1:52:49Sean Fennessey:I think that's probably also because of what happened in the finale. Okay. Maybe it didn't need to be explained. Sure. But no spoilers here. Okay. Wish those people well. The cast of Euphoria? Yeah. I think they're doing great. They are. Seems like they're doing wonderfully. They are the future of movies. Yes. Quite frankly. And this has been the future of movies, this entire conversation. How do you feel? Great. I love cinema. Yeah, I do too. What you're not mentioning! is the summer of I hope it was 1916 if it was 1917 I'm gonna feel really bad but I think it was 1916 I think you got it right you know um it's just I did you see the breadwinner?

1:53:29no I follow Mandy Moore on Instagram

1:53:33Sean Fennessey:how's that going? well so she's east side mom she's an east side mom but she's you know she's part of the viral mom chat did you follow this at all at the beginning of the year? no the viral mom chat? yeah is that like a zombie movie situation no but once again that's an idea keep making the movies that you want no this was okay so who uh ashley tisdale is that right everyone yeah thank you sarah in the booth ashley tisdale wrote an essay for the cut well first for her own blog and then for the cut about how she was um excommunicated from a mom group chat friend group and she felt that it was very mean and then everyone realized that it's the mom friend group featuring hillary duff who is incredibly famous.

1:54:14Do you know this?

1:54:15Sean Fennessey:Well, I certainly do. And I'll tell you why. Sure. Yeah. Lizzie McGuire. No, she's insanely hot. That's why. That's a whole thing. Yeah, that's a whole thing. No, I mean, I know, but like that's your flavor. This is a little bit like a little bit of like a Kaley Cuoco situation for, you know, me, but okay. That's a beautiful young woman. You're mistaken. I'm not going to get into describing people's personas in that specific way. Okay. However, you got to learn up on Hilary Duff right in her forties right now. What's happening there? Oh, no. Listen, I am aware. There's a lot happening. Because she keeps being reblogged on Manny Moore's group chat because what happened is that— Reblogged?

1:54:54Yeah, because I'm not following Hilary Duff because I'm—

1:54:56Sean Fennessey:What do you mean reblogged? Well, re-posted on Instagram. They all went to her opening in Las Vegas. They had like a girls' weekend. Basically, so the mom chat that was identified as the mean mom chat has responded by just doubling down on like being out in public and posting and doing girls trips and being like, we love our life without Ashley Tisdale and Hilary Duff has an album and Hilary Duff's in Las Vegas and Manny Moore's in The Breadwinner and Manny Moore's doing this. So I'm up on what they're doing. Yeah, but I did not see The Breadwinner. We can really do anything on this show. There are no boundaries.

1:55:31Sean Fennessey:It's extraordinary. And you got to wait until you get to minute 112 before you can get into this kind of conversation. but I'm really proud of us. Proud of the movies. Yeah, good job. Good job to the youth for going to see it. You have no regrets about sitting out the next episode? Well, I can't go tonight to see the film. Yeah. And I do feel... It's going to be the nerdiest episode of all time. But I don't want to infringe on your time. You know, it's going to be a safe space for the two of you. The real question is, will I listen to it? I think I will. I think I will. But I still got to do Spielberg rewatchables?

1:56:09That's a fair question. I got to prep for Mondays up, you know? Like, I got movies to see. Let me ask you this. Yeah.

1:56:15Sean Fennessey:So, we're going to do a Disclosure Day episode, obviously, in June. And then there's another episode that will come after Disclosure Day comes out, where we'll talk about Spielberg. Now, we've done top fives, right? I think we did a full... Did we do a full ranking or no? Did just me, you, and Joe did our top fives? I thought that we did a ranking, but... I thought we did, too. I thought we did both. Yeah, because I just remember having to be like... E.T. and Jurassic Park should be higher. What's wrong with both of you? I think you're right. Over and over and over again. I know, but you're not an AI person, and this is a big problem for us historically.

1:56:47The film or the technology?

1:56:49Sean Fennessey:You're not into the technology, nor am I. The film, though, which is a five-star masterpiece. Well, I was assigned at a summer school. Not summer school homework. Let's be clear. I did not go to summer school, but I went to school during the summer. God forbid someone ever went to summer school, everybody. Listen, I have a homework reputation to maintain. So what are we going to do with Spielberg? What are we going to talk about? Not with him, the man. So we're not re-ranking. I don't know. I'm trying to figure it out. We've seen Disclosure Day, and I love the idea of putting it in the context of his career, for sure.

1:57:18Sean Fennessey:But we'll probably do that in the episode that we do. Yeah. I would imagine. It would be hard not to. Very hard. Let's give that some thought. Okay. What would be the best way to do it? Okay. But anyway, later this week, Griffin Newman will be joining me to talk about Masters of the Universe. Perhaps you've heard Griffin on the Blank Check podcast, one of our buds. He knows a lot about He-Man. and he knows a lot about toys. Yeah. And he knows a lot about fantasy films. And those are the things we'll be talking about in this episode. And I think that's beautiful. I need this movie to be good because if it's bad, then I'm going to be not happy.

1:57:54Sean Fennessey:I'm going to be sad. I'm going to be mad. You're just going to be sad. I'm just going to be sad. And I'm having such a happy time in my life and I want it to continue. Do you think it will? I'm rooting for you. Okay. Early buzz is good. Maybe you can just, your heart is open right now. You know, you're entering from a space of positivity. Yeah. And that's if you were already dead in the ditch. It's like if we had to talk about the Mets for a while, then you would. War game winning streak. Oh, congratulations. Things are looking fine. Okay. I don't think they're going to go to the playoffs, but they're fine.

1:58:24It's again.

1:58:25Sean Fennessey:Juan Soto is him. It's June 1st. It is June 1st. You're right. I'm rooting for you. Thanks. I appreciate your support. There was a tweet that I saw on the internet. An x.com post that said, damn, really seems like Travis Knight. loves Jane Schoenbrunn's movie after seeing Masters of the Universe. Okay. So I just want to let you know that that's the vibe. Okay. Cool. We'll see. See you at the movies. See you at the movies later this week. And thank you so much to Lucas Cavanaugh and Sarah Reddy for their work on this episode. We'll see you later this week to talk about Masters of the Universe.

1:59:19Sean Fennessey:Turn it up. Storm has zero sugar and 200 milligrams of caffeine. So you can turn that workout up a notch. Good energy in, good energy out. Energy for life.