A 2025 NFL QB Pyramid, and Half-Baked Ideas (Summer Edition) With Sheil Kapadia and Kevin Wildes

22:20I mean, they've kind of, I hate what they've done to Patrick Mahomes. You gave the numbers. It's like, we watched this guy and he was bombing it downfield and he had a rocket of an arm and he was the most fun guy ever to watch. And now they're thrown at six yards because they can't come up with anything else because they don't have the talent around him. So that's where I'm at with Mahomes. I don't put, I put pretty much nothing on him. Now other people might disagree, but that's kind of how I view this.

22:45Bill Simmons:This is typical trophy generation performing parenting by you. You made the key point. And this is why I put Allen in that top spot. If you switch them last season, the Chiefs would have been better with that version of Allen last season versus what they had with Mahomes. And I've heard all the excuses. By the way, I'm the one who just picked Mahomes blindly every week and all the way through the Super Bowl. I had no other reason. I thought the Eagles were better. I'm like, I'm not going against my homes. So I say that knowing that I was that person nine months ago. I just keep looking at the Josh Allen piece and we're not making the same kind of excuses for him because the team performs no matter what happens.

23:25Bill Simmons:Like who were his people last year? James Cook was good, right? But like when you look at the receivers that he had, it's not like Keon Coleman was going nuts. He had Shakir. they went and they they traded for Amari Cooper during the season that didn't really do anything I thought Schultz was he was not uh not Schultz the Knox Knox yeah I was getting my Dalton's confused tight ends yeah yeah no the tight ends were okay but I but for where they were in fantasy before the year when we were like oh my god these weapons I don't know I just felt like he was a one-man show in a lot of ways and as a Pats fan I just am the most or betting betting against a quarterback, I was the most afraid going against him last year.

24:06Bill Simmons:I always felt like he was going to make a play. Some of the stuff with his, so he had in the last two years, 27 rush TDs, but he had 109 first downs running. And normally QBs are between like 20 and 30. This guy's getting, I don't know, basically three, four running first downs a game. And if it's a big playoff game, maybe five. And that's the piece. I just think I thought they should have won last year. I keep coming back to that. Like, I don't know if the right team won last year. He's the most efficient runner in the NFL and has been for like the last three years. Like when he either chooses to run on a scramble or on a designed run, it's pretty much unstoppable.

24:51I do think that's a case for him. I think, I think the best point you made is probably if you're an opposing fan right now and which quarterback are you most afraid of? in a playoff game. I think there's a case for, yeah, it might be Josh Allen. Now, I don't like making arguments against Josh Allen because I do think it's, I do think it's flip a coin and I'm basically just saying the tiebreaker goes to the guy who's one more, but they did have, they had a top five offensive line, I would say last year and it stayed very healthy. So I feel like the great quarterbacks can overcome either the average offensive line or like the bad supporting cast.

25:25When you get both of them that are bad, sometimes you're kind of just stuck and you know, you're like the, eighth best offense instead of the second best offense.

25:33Bill Simmons:Yeah, it's weird. This is uncharacteristic for me because normally I'm like a playoff pedigree wins. Somebody's got to take the belt from the guy. I don't know, man. I watched everything last year and I just felt like Josh, when you look at the totality of what he did looking back versus the mystique of Mahomes versus what actually happened and the fact that he was able to turn it on right when they needed it. But just quarter by quarter, I don't know how you would say anyone's better than Josh. I mean, the only other guy statistically that has a case is Lamar, who last year was 41 and four, four interceptions.

26:11Bill Simmons:He ran for 915 yards. He had 47 rushing TDs, or first downs, threw for over 4 ,000. But the playoff resume just kills him. Like, that's one where you can't discuss him for the top because he just had, we haven't seen him do it. Josh, it's like, we haven't seen him 100 % do it either. but I also feel like two of those wins, I can't really hang on him. I think that's right. If you look at the Bills' playoff losses, Josh Allen has played like 95th percentile games, statistically, where their defense has just let them down every single year in the playoffs. They get carved up by Burrow or Mahomes or whoever it is.

26:51And yes, you can make the case that not everything in the playoffs has been Lamar Jackson, but I do think you can say it hasn't been quite as flawless. You know, he has made mistakes here and there. And then just the physicality of it where Lamar Jackson has stayed healthy, but earlier in his career, he had seasons where he missed five games. And Josh Allen's kind of like what you always talk about with LeBron, where it would just be shocking if like Josh Allen went down and didn't get up. And you're like, oh my, Josh Allen's out for a month? Like, wait, I thought he was indestructible. Right.

27:19Yeah.

27:20Bill Simmons:Yeah, the, man. I mean, now the more I'm thinking about it, like they didn't have the ball with a chance to put away the Chiefs last year. they did and they didn't do it. And that's at least partly on him, even though, you know, whatever. But, and, and I remember saying that at the time it was like, if you're going to, if you're going to take it from the homes, this is your chance. You have the ball. You can finish them right here. And they didn't, but I don't know how you, you could have my homes first after the, the start to finish year he had last year, unless you're going to tell me the offensive line was that bad because the other piece of my homes, the infrastructure of that read, the play calling, like just the stability they've always had there.

28:00Bill Simmons:I think that really matters. You know, and that's something that some quarterbacks, you know, they might have 10 years where they don't have anything like that. So I know he didn't have a left tackle. He's going to have a left tackle this year because by all accounts, that first rounder they took, it feels like that's probably the biggest draft pick storyline, right? That they have like a real kick-ass left tackle that crossed their fingers that they took Basically, at the end of the first round, he's going to kick ass for them. Yeah, if it works out, that's a huge, huge deal in the AFC. Now they're swinging another guy into guard because they traded Joe Tooney.

28:36And so I'm always skeptical with the rookies in the August reports where this guy looks great. And I'm just like, let me, you know, because I was doing a bunch of statistical research on this. And like 35 % to 40 % of first round picks won't even start eight games this year. Wow. You know, and like everybody gets so excited in August that, oh my God, they solved their, you know, you look at a weakness and you say, oh, they solved their problem with this guy. And it's like a lot of, almost half the guys aren't even going to play. So yeah, I need to see it the first month of the season, but I'm with you.

29:07That is a huge pick that could kind of swing things in the AFC.

29:10Bill Simmons:All right. So my conciliary disagrees. I'm going to keep Alan in the top spot. And I'm going to say this to Patrick Mahomes. Prove to me I'm a shithead. Go take your belt back. You dropped the belt. You dropped the belt in that Super Bowl game. And just in general, I didn't love the season start to finish. And I think Josh is a safer bet. So prove to me I'm wrong. We'll take a break. We'll go through the rest of the pyramid. Tuesday, August 26th. Guess what that is? Fan duel futures day. It's a new holiday for football fans. I mean, honestly, my entire summer is futures day, but let's designate it.

29:47Bill Simmons:Tuesday, August 26th, 24 hours of deals. on your football season predictions. Take a fire on the MVP race. Mahomes comeback year. Josh Allen. Maybe you go rogue. Joe Burrow. Crown your champion in August. I like an Eagles-Broncos Super Bowl. I think it's like 60 to 1. Maybe do a little Super Bowl matchup. Division winner Dark Horses. Denver, over 3 to 1 still. Mark your calendars. This is your day for your hunches, your hot takes, your calls, your odds. We're going to have some special bets on there as well. Visit the FanDuel app today and start planning your future bets now because Futures Day is one day and one day only.

30:28Bill Simmons:FanDuel, play your game. Must be 21 plus in President's Select States or 18 plus in President in DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBRA or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. As a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. Your business is on your mind 24-7. So when you're hiring, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do. That hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs. When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn's new feature can help you write job descriptions and then quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep candidate insights.

31:12Bill Simmons:Nice. At the end of the day, the most important thing to your small business is the quality of candidates. and with LinkedIn, you can feel confident you're getting the best. You can even add a hashtag hiring frame to your profile picture and get two times more qualified candidates. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash Simmons, terms and conditions apply. And now it's time for rules and tips to winning your league. A new segment presented by Yahoo Fantasy, the most fun place to play fantasy football this season. I'm the perfect guy to ask since I haven't won my knockout league since 2007.

31:48Bill Simmons:Yahoo Fantasy dropping over 28 new features over 28 days through August, like guillotines, which is an awesome way to play. I was in one of those leagues last year. It was great. Whether you're a season pro or a last minute joiner, there are a few things you'll want to know before the season kicks off. Number one, find that rookie receiver who's going to be awesome. Just try to lock it down. Brian Thomas Jr. was the guy last year. Just go in, lock it down. Make sure you get a quarterback. Everyone, like there was this new shift where it was like, no, quarterbacks don't matter as much. Guess what?

32:21Bill Simmons:Look at the total points. Quarterbacks matter. Get a good quarterback. Don't mess around. And then don't draft guys from your own team if you can avoid it because it's like a double whammy if something terrible happens to them. So those are my thoughts. Stay tuned for more killer announcements and start playing Yahoo Fantasy Football at yahoofantasy.com. slash Simmons. And try a guillotine link. They're cool. All right, so the top four, Allen at the top, then Lamar and Mahomes and Burr all together. That next tier of the pyramid, which is four guys. So I settled on these four. Jaden Daniels, Jordan Love, Dak Prescott, and Jalen Hurts.

33:09Bill Simmons:Who doesn't belong in that night? So we are now talking about guys five through eight. So when somebody says he's a top 10 quarterback, my recommendation would be do this exercise because you'd be surprised. That top 10 fills up pretty fast. Daniels love Prescott hurts. Do all these people belong in this level for you? I was most surprised that you had Dak Prescott in this tier. I looked at it and I'm like, wait, did he send me the wrong thing? Not that I think people will make the case, but I think that's more of the QB intellectuals, the hipsters, you know, you don't understand what Dak Prescott does.

33:47And I like Dak Prescott. I just feel like there's a case for other people in this tier. You know, I think last year, everyone points to, hey, 2023, Dak Prescott was an MVP candidate and he was awesome that year. He did start eight games last year and he kind of sucked. I mean, their offense was terrible last year for eight games. And now he's 32 years old coming off of an injury. So they generally win a lot of games. He plays well and their offense is good when they have Dak Prescott healthy. But I have to say of the four guys in there, I was surprised by him. And I was also surprised you had Jordan Love in there.

34:23I'm a big Jordan Love guy, but I thought you would say, let's see a little bit more. He didn't have a great year last season. Maybe one of these other guys belongs in there. So I had like three or four names where I thought, I wonder how closely you looked at putting these guys in that tier.

34:38Bill Simmons:I had a lot of trouble once we, I mean, to me, the two that were definitely in there that had to be in there were Hertz and Daniels. Love was unquestionably hurt basically the whole season and just seemed to have like a little bit of the year from hell and fought through it. Not to mention, I thought his receivers, you know, for what we thought that receiving core was going to be. And then even Luke Musgrave thought he, and then it turned out Tucker Craft was the guy. I don't know. And the smart football people, as we head toward the season, have all targeted him as like, no, no, no, if you actually watch the tape.

35:17Bill Simmons:And at some point, I trust that a little bit, that there's a lot more there. Maybe last year was on the lower end of what it should have been. So that's the case. Yeah, I like Fluff. I mean, like you said, dealt with three injuries. I think his receivers were among the league leaders in drops. And still, you know, what if they were hurt? Yeah, and they still won, what, 11 games or whatever and had a top five offense. So yeah, I like having Love in there. I was just surprised you had him in there. But the guys who I wrote down here where I thought you could replace Dak Prescott with, I had four names written down.

35:52Bill Simmons:Okay, I wonder if there are the four names that are in the next level. Three of them are in the next level. One of them's in the level below the next level. Okay. You want them now? No, let me go through when we go to that next level. man you're really like I thought I was like being fair with Dak because I'm not as you know I'm not like a giant fan but I went I mean I went back to his 03 season or 23 season 36 touchdowns 9 picks he threw for 45 16 went 12 and 5 yeah I didn't even necessarily think the team was that good and then last year was a little year from hellish and you know I thought their offensive line wasn't good and they had one receiver they threw away the running back position for reasons that remain unclear.

36:36Bill Simmons:So, and then he got hurt. So I don't know. Is that his fault or is that everything else's fault? Yeah, I think he's in the mix there. I don't think you're wrong to have him on this row. I think there are arguments for some other guys, but you're right. When he plays, they're 76 and 46. They're 30 games over 500 when he's on the field, which I think would probably surprise people. They won 12 games, three years in a row. We'll see what it looks like this year. Would I want him for four playoff rounds? Probably not. Here's the guy as we get to this next level. I really looked at Mayfield. I loved how Mayfield played last year.

37:15Bill Simmons:And Mayfield was 4 ,500 yards last year, 41 touchdowns, 16 picks. He'll throw the ball for grabs once a game, maybe twice. But from a leadership standpoint, I just think as a culture guy, I just like him. I think the Browns giving up on him because he had a bad shoulder that one year is almost as dumb as the Watson thing. So that was the one guy I was looking at. Who were your three guys you were looking at in the next level? Because I'll give you the next level. Mayfield, Purdy, Stafford, Stroud, and Goff. So who'd you have? I think it's going to surprise you, probably the three guys I had. I thought you could make a case for Purdy that he belongs in there.

37:59Honestly. Like I learned more about Purdy last year than maybe I did in previous years. They were the most injured offense in the NFL. They couldn't do all the Shanahan, you know, tricks and gimmicks that they want to do because they didn't have the personnel. And I don't think they were bad last year because of the offense. I think they were they had one of the worst special teams in the NFL. The defense was bad and they had injuries on offense. I thought Purdy did actually did a pretty good job elevating some of the talent around him. So, you know, you can get to a Super Bowl with him. And I thought we learned last year that, hey, the floor actually isn't that low.

38:33I mean, they were ninth in offensive efficiency last year and he was dealing with a shoulder injury. Like if you look at his numbers before the shoulder injury, I think it was week 10, week 12 or whatever. I mean, he was playing really well and then he finished slow and then he got injured to end the season. But yeah, I know not everybody is a purdy guy, but I thought he deserved maybe a mention for one tier above. So that was one guy I had. Stroud. Hold on on Purdy. I mean he almost threw for 4 ,000 yards

39:02Bill Simmons:last year. They lose Iuke what five games into the season. His first round pick at shot before the season. Pearsall. McCaffrey plays barely any games. They're down to like their third stream running back. The line was a mess. They were the classic all-time year from health season. I had the same thought. He had two terrible games I remember. Purdy. But for the most part, it felt like he was hanging around. I think that the best case for him, he can extend plays, right? He had 33 rushing first downs last year. But in general, like, I can move around and buy two seconds. But I think he throws one of the best deep balls in the league.

39:41Bill Simmons:You know? And if the weapons can... I don't know what they think. They seem to think IU can come back at some point soon. I'm a little dubious. That injury happened in October, but we'll see. Diggs is coming back too. But yeah, I like him too. Both him and Mayfield, like if that's your quarterback, I'm just not bummed out. I like those guys. Yeah. He reminds me of Romo, I think is still the guy who I'm like, when I look at Purdy, like he's probably not as talented or might not have the same arm, but just kind of the way he plays, it feels like you're going to complete passes and hit on explosive plays and give your offense a chance.

40:17All right. So Stroud, you thought could have made a case for that higher level. could have made a case. I understand why he didn't. I still think he's really good. But last year, I think he did develop some bad habits. But if you're asking me like Stroud or Prescott, if I just am an NFL owner and you're like, hey, you get your chance at one of these two quarterbacks this year, I might be tempted to go with Stroud, everything else being equal there. So he probably needs to do it a little bit longer. I understand why you would have Prescott above him. And then the last guy, he just never, it's always his coach gets all the credit and he doesn't get the credit.

40:52Um, and maybe I'm, I've just in my old age turned into a QB apologist, but like Jared Goff, I mean, it's first at Sean McVay, then it's Ben Johnson and it's like four, five of his seven seasons or whatever. He's quarterbacked a really good offense. Um, and so I just thought, you know, I don't know if you put Jared Goff into that Cowboys offense instead of Dak press. I don't know. Maybe there's a smaller margin there than people would expect. But I think I would have Prescott ahead of him.

41:22Bill Simmons:I did examine the Goff candidacy and his last three years, when you look at them all together, are kind of shocking. He goes 44, 45, and 4 ,600 each year. 29, 30, and 37 touchdowns. Never throws more than 12 picks. It was just better than I was expecting. But we're going to find out about him this year. Yes. No Ben Johnson. The offensive line is definitely worse. Schedule is going to be harder. We will know this year. We'll know what's in there once it's brought. But you're right. He could be the guy. You've convinced me to bump Dak. I think I was being too generous with him. So if it goes Allen, then Lamar, Mahomes, Burrow, and then Daniels, Love, Hurts, you think that fourth guy should be who?

42:14Bill Simmons:Not Mayfield, huh? It might be a guy in your next tier. You want to get to your next row there? If you say Justin Herbert, I'm hanging up. It better not be Justin Herbert. All right. Don't do it. All right. No, I know. I don't want to say Justin Herbert. I think he has to be in the conversation. Oh my God. All right. What is happening? Listen, I'm trying to bring. Justin Herbert. I'm trying to bring a rational Justin Herbert take here. You know, you have the Herbert hipsters who, if you don't have him as like the greatest quarterback in the NFL, they get all upset. But this is too, this is too low for him.

42:53I think it is. Why is it too low where you have him? Don't you think if the Cowboys had their choice of Dak Prescott or Justin Herbert this year, they would take Justin Herbert? Would they? I think so. I think they would.

43:07Bill Simmons:Can I give you some just, let me give you. I love this. so I had so level four I had Mayfield Purdy Stafford Stroud and Goff and by the way quickly on Stroud I just thought he I just didn't think he was as good last year in every respect as he was the year before especially against shitty teams they were just games where you'd have them on and their offense just looked like shit and I don't know what he was doing I know he had receiver injuries I know they weren't totally happy with their O-line, but I just, I didn't like how he played. Herbert, last year, 23 touchdowns, three picks. Really impressive.

43:49Bill Simmons:Took 41 sacks. I think they had a top five offensive line last year. So explain that to me. Almost threw for 4 ,000 yards. Here's the thing with Herbert. And all of the Herbert apologists have not been able to explain this part. They played a cream puff schedule last year. They played four really good defenses. Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Kansas City twice. They scored 60 points in the four games total. 60 points. In the playoffs, Houston, another good defense. 12 points. Anytime the defense was good, he looked like crap and couldn't do anything. And nobody has been able to provide a proper explanation for that.

44:29Bill Simmons:If the defense is good, he's not good. And it's like, well, they don't have enough skill guys. Like, what is it? At some point, we have to see something from him and we just haven't seen it. I'm with you, honestly. In most of my conversations with other football analysts, I'm the guy making the points you're making. And they're like, no, what can he do? He's got the arm. He's got the athleticism. He makes good decisions. At some point, I'm with you. You have to have a moment. It has to all come together. You have to have a playoff win five years into the NFL. So I'm not irrational about Justin Herbert, where I'm like, he's incredible.

45:07You know, I think all the points you make are absolutely valid. And I do wonder if he's going to have sort of a Stafford type career where we're going to have like eight, nine, 10 years where everyone's like this guy's arm and oh my gosh, look at this throw. And there just hasn't been a single meaningful moment for him in the playoffs until maybe there's kind of a late stage part of his career. So I'm with you there. I do think if I were an expansion team and I got my choice of any quarterback and I'm ranking them right now, I would have him higher on this list above some of the guys you have above him.

45:47So that would be my case for him is that I'm with you. It hasn't all come together. I've been underwhelmed. I loved him in his first season, his second season. I thought he was going to have accomplished a lot more at this point that he hasn't accomplished. but I still think there is a good player in there that I don't know when we'll see, see the results.

46:05Bill Simmons:There's not, I just, that he's being, he's being put on this level that we just haven't seen against the, against really good teams, which is part of being an awesome quarterback. It's like, can you, Lawrence has the same issue and we're, we're not even close to getting to Lawrence yet. But it's like, at some point, let's see it. Yeah. Let's stop making excuses this year. It's like Slater's already out, right? Oh, Slater's out. So if he's not doing well against, well, they don't have Slater. That's why. And the rookie running back is not as good as they thought. It would just be another litany of excuses.

46:37Bill Simmons:By the way, I don't think a team was better equipped to lose their awesome left tackle than the Chargers, who could just take Joe Walt and take him from the right side and put him on the left side. It's not perfect. But no other team has the luxury of moving Joe Walt into the starting left tackle. So it's an excuse, but it's not like a real excuse. They still should be fine. yeah like they should like you know they they improved their scope position guys it's year two of harbaugh and i'm not accepting excuses for it like let's see it i think one of the big differentiators with these guys is like who can overcome a bad situation a bad situation and like jayden daniels if you go back and look at what we were all thinking about that commander situation going into last year it was like offensive line bad terry mclaren and that's all he's got and they had what?

47:24The fifth best offense in the NFL and he got to the NFC Championship game. So I think it's fair. I mean, Herbert, they've had one top 10 offense in five years with him as the quarterback. And it's hard to get around that when it's like three different offensive coordinators, different coaching staffs, different supporting casts. At some point, if you're going to talk about a quarterback in a certain level, they have to be able to overcome some of the issues around him. And there probably hasn't been enough of that with him. I'd rather have Purdy. Prescott's just done more Stafford won a Super Bowl

48:02Bill Simmons:Stroud versus Herbert's an interesting conversation Yeah And Goff has been really good And has been on the cusp of making the Super Bowl I feel good about having him in the fifth level here I still got to figure out So Daniel's love hurts I think I'm just putting Mayfield Like why not? Mayfield's had good moments I know you like Mayfield over Purdy is it more fun to put Purdy in that I like Purdy but alright fine I'll put Purdy there I'll put Mayfield this is why you're my conciliary yeah Purdy Purdy came mid the Super Bowl it's more than Justin Herbert could say alright so that next level Justin Herbert Sam Darnold who now is being discussed like he's the 11th reliever on an 82-win National League team.

49:02Bill Simmons:Drake May, Bo Nix, Geno Smith, and Kyler Murray would be the level five pyramid guys. Kyler is the one statistically that you could get more excited about, but I'm sorry. I have a Sunday ticket and I watch football. And I just that he is who he is. Like he's nine games under 500 as a first career. And I just, I don't know. I do not see some of that elevates the team. I feel like I know how every Kyler Murray season is going to go. You know, there's going to be some flashes in September, in October. Someone's going to make the case that he's playing as well as any quarterback in the NFL. There's going to be some fun highlights.

49:44And then you're going to get to the end of the season and they're going to be like nine and eight. And their offense has never been in the top ten. That would be a miracle. Yeah, that would be a good one. So yes, there are flashes there, but like Herbert in a way, you need to see a little bit more at this point where has the guy put it all together? So I don't have an issue with where you have him.

50:05Bill Simmons:That's the LaMelo Ball guy out of the quarterbacks this year, where it's like you catch the red highlight package. He looks amazing. There's going to be a moment earlier in the season where like LaMelo Ball, whoa, here we go. And then you look at the record at the end of the year. I had trouble with May versus Knicks and as you know I love Drake May I do think we're putting a lot on him this year and he's going to have two plays a game he had one in the preseason game which for the first time ever, I paid for the preseason package I normally hate the preseason but I was like I gotta see these rookies, I shelled out my $14 and I watched the first three quarters of the Pats and Drake May of course had his one dumb Drake May held onto the ball, threw it, basically fumbled.

50:51But I think, I don't think people understand

50:55Bill Simmons:how bad his offensive line, skill position, coaching situation was last year, where it was an F-minus at receiver, at offensive line, and at coaching. And now the receivers, they at least have some speed. Henderson in the backfield looks like he's Jameer Gibbs on freaking steroids. And then he has a whole new offensive line and Vrabel. And I just, I think he's going to be good if they can keep him on the field. The big worry for me with him is just taking hits. He's don't take this the wrong way. I don't want to scare you because I like Drake May. He's got a little young Carson Wentz to his game.

51:32Remember when Carson Wentz was good, you know, when Carson Wentz was good, you know, MVP candidate and you saw the highs, but there would be a couple plays every game where you're like, dude, like you have to stay on the field. Don't do that. He's got a little bit of that, But I have a Drake May stat you're going to love. I don't think I've mentioned this to you before. There's this stat I like called success rate. All it looks at is when a guy drops back, was it a positive play for the offense or a negative play? So it's like a 50-yard completion is treated the same as a 12-yard completion, but it's just good for like how consistent is this guy?

52:05If you look at every rookie quarterback over the last 10 years, he ranks fourth out of 31 rookie quarterbacks in success rate last year. So like that, that's pretty impressive when you like it's CJ Stroud's up there, Dak Prescott's up there. Like there are good quarterbacks there and his highs are very high where like those 1 % plays where you're like eight, 10 quarterbacks in the NFL can do that. He's got that. It's kind of like, he just has to get those, like you mentioned, those two, three, four or five plays where either he's getting crushed or he's making a bad decision, or it could be a turnover, like coaching that out of him to me is going to be the key as to whether he just makes like a okay leap or like a leap where we're talking about him as one of the guys by the end of the season.

52:51Bill Simmons:Yeah, the Pats looked awesome on Friday night and they interviewed variable at halftime and then after the game. And he did the Belichick thing where he was like, man, we look great. I hope we can play that. Like he's just like, yeah, I didn't love this. And, and he specifically just kept mentioning the May thing. He's like, he's got to be better. He can't do that. So I think they're going to be coaching him hard. I don't think people realize how fast he is and what his legs are and how, especially if there's actually guys out there making plays who have to be covered and the field opens up. They ran one play in the preseason where they did the classic video game play.

53:25Bill Simmons:They sent the receivers out and cleared out a side of the field and he ran. And it's just like, he's an unbelievable athlete. Could he be like mini Josh Allen someday? I don't know, but I think they're going to be taking advantage of the legs. So anyway, Knicks was the other one. Knicks had 41 first downs last year just with his legs. 29 TDs, 12 picks. He ran for 430 yards. He's in year two. That team, I think, as you know, I'm all in on that team. I think that team's going to be really good. And the fact that the Chargers have already had a major offensive line injury. The Raiders have already lost Christian Wilkins.

54:04Bill Simmons:It just feels like they're solidified as the second team in that thing. But Nix was somebody that I feel like if anyone could climb out of this level and jump up a notch, it's going to be May or Nix, in my opinion. Do you think Nix has another gear or no? That is the question because I feel like he's high floor and he proved his competency last year. But if you really look at it last year, his superpower was avoiding negative plays. Like he didn't take sacks. Like you just mentioned, he'll scramble. He didn't turn the football over. And it wasn't lucky. Like if you look at the advanced numbers about, you know, turnover worthy plays, like he did a very good job.

54:40Sean Payton in his ear of like, do not create negative plays, live to see the next down. So you have that. I think it establishes a high floor. And now I wonder, is there another gear where because the other thing is like when he was pressured, when opponents knew he had to throw the ball, those kinds of things. He wasn't as good in those situations where you really need the quarterback to kind of carry you. And everyone knows you have to pass the ball. So that's the next step. And I think he might, like I liked what I saw. I'm not, you know, I wouldn't plant my flag on it and be like, he's definitely going to take a step forward.

55:13I think the most likely scenario is maybe he's a little bit better, but they're still maybe in that 10 to 15 range in terms of offenses. But if he can get them a little bit higher, then it goes to what you're saying that they, they could be a surprise team.

55:27Bill Simmons:Next level is Penix, Lawrence, Caleb to a Bryce young, JJ McCarthy. God only knows what's going to happen with him. I'm not accepting any shit for the Lawrence being in that level. I just like, give me a break. He's 22 and 38 in his career. His last two years, he's played 26 games, 32 touchdowns, 21 picks, 15 fumbles. Doesn't use his legs really like the way we thought he might in college. And we haven't seen him elevate teams. He throws, does anyone throw more hospital balls than him? He did one in the fucking preseason game. Yeah. I just don't I don't see it. And I don't know if being in a losing situation with all the turmoil and different coaches.

56:10Bill Simmons:I don't know if that was bad for him, but I'd be really surprised if he was able to elevate himself into like one of those top four tiers. Have you given up on him or you still feel like there's hope? I I think there's a chance, but I'm not like I see it. You know, I don't think this is an outrage. I think it's fine to have him here. You know, I think if you look at his last three seasons, one terrible season, one mediocre season, and then 2022, I thought he was pretty good. So it wouldn't shock me if he settles into kind of average, hey, if the situation around him is good, you know, he can have a good year.

56:45But I'm with you just in terms of some of the stuff we saw last year, the bad habits, the inability to overcome some of the things around him. Now, I will say, like, I forget who you said with Goff, We're going to learn more about him this year. Shouldn't we learn a lot about Trevor Lawrence? If Liam Cohen can get that year out of Baker Mayfield last year. Now, I know the Jags offensive line isn't as good as Tampa's was last year, but still like there was a scheme there where the coach looked at the quarterback and said, I can build to your strengths and we can have one of the better offenses in the NFL.

57:15I feel like you should be able to do that with Brian Thomas Jr. and Travis Hunter and Trevor Lawrence. So I do think, and we've probably said this in previous years, but we should learn a little bit more about Trevor Lawrence this year.

57:28Bill Simmons:You underrated how bad that Jacksonville offensive line might be. Yeah. They might be legit bad. They might be a bottom. I have them in the bottom five. Thomas was a revelation though. He's awesome. He has to be one of the six, seven, eight most impactful receivers. So at least he has that. We'll see with Hunter. I have no idea. The Hunter thing, anyone who can say they're going to predict that is nuts. All right, and then the last level of the pyramid. This is the bottom level, and it's Cam Ward, Fields, Rogers. Russ Wilson is the last human QB before we get to Indy question mark, New Orleans question mark, and then Cleveland question mark.

58:11Bill Simmons:And I am not spending two seconds talking about Shader Sanders looking good in a preseason game against third stringers. I'm rooting for him because it would be more fun if he's good, but let's all settle down. We can't all pretend, or we can't all say preseason doesn't matter and then overreact when somebody does well in a preseason game. So anyway, Cam Ward, what if he's good? Now, there's some offensive line stuff working against him. There's some scope position stuff working against him. I wouldn't say it's the best coaching situation, but there is some good buzz coming out about just like, hey, this guy's...

58:49Bill Simmons:What if he's good? Is there any possibility that he could be Stroud two years ago or Daniels last year? Yeah, it's probably the hardest thing in the NFL to predict is which rookie quarterback is going to be good. I mean, just last year with Daniels, the year before with Stroud, maybe like one person on an island said it, but you usually have no idea. I think the thing he has working for him is they did build up that offensive line where it's going to give him a chance. Like it might not be a top five unit, but it's not going to be a situation, at least I don't think, where we're looking at it going, man, he's getting sacked six times a game and is a disaster.

59:23Now, supporting cast isn't great. I'm with you on the coach. Like, I don't know. Like, we'll see. With Brian Callahan, it's just sort of the least talked about coach in the NFL.

59:33Bill Simmons:There was some Will Levis stuff last year with him that just seemed, it just made me question the judgment. Totally agree. It's like, what do you, because they were, it felt like they would hang around in some of those games. And then it was like just mismanagement, terrible quarterback play, something really stupid happening. at some point that's a little bit the coach. I don't know. Yeah. Terrible special teams, which is always, I look at that and go, what's the head coach doing here? If everything else sucks and the special team sucks, that's a red flag too. But yeah, like the, you know, the row above you had Penix and you had JJ McCarthy.

1:00:09It's like a bunch of guys we don't really know a lot about and our wild cards and Cam Ward probably fits in that. Yeah. Same group right now.

1:00:17Bill Simmons:So two, I had, you know, as a level five, in the bottom 10, basically. And that is, it's mostly a durability thing. I just don't trust him to play four straight months. You can't, you don't want him running the ball at all. They have the worst short yardage stuff of the decade of anybody. And I think partly because everybody knows there's no QB sneak, any sort of role at anything. They're just going to be like kid gloves with him. He can't stay on the field. And I think everything has to be specifically perfect for him to succeed. I've just never been a giant fan of his. I don't know. You're kind of where I am on that one, right?

1:00:57I'm with you. I did think there was a case to bump Darnold down one and replace him with Tua. Interesting. Yeah, if I were more. I mean, they're 38 and 24 when Tua plays. And I know a lot of it's beating up on bad teams and everything you said is true. Durability, concussion history. If they play a good team, I don't think they're going to be good. But I could also make the case that Darnold has had one year of above average quarterback play. And that was with Justin Jefferson, Kevin O 'Connell. Like I need to see more with Darnold. I think there's a, there's a, there's a chance. Three is pretty good.

1:01:32It's good. It's good. But it was one season. I think there's a chance he comes back down to earth. So I don't have an issue with it just because with the two, you know, he's going to miss four games most seasons. But I did think there was at least a little bit of a case there that he could replace Darnold. All right.

1:01:47Bill Simmons:So my finalist, Allen at the top, then Lamar, Mahomes, Burrow, then Daniels, Love Hurts, Purdy, Shield of Conciliary stepping in. So that's the top eight. No, I'm fine with it. I think you're right. Mayfield, Prescott, Stafford, Stroud, Goff. So that's 13. And then the next level starts with Herbert and weirdly drops off at that point from Darnold, May, Nix, Geno, Murray. It's probably a top 14 with a drop off. So maybe you make a case Herbert goes up one level in that golf group just because it feels weird that he's on a level with Darnold, May, Nix, Geno, and Murray, whether you're a Herbert guy or not.

1:02:25Bill Simmons:Yeah, I felt like he... Yeah. Yeah, so maybe I could get a little creative with that level. Move him up. So that would give me... This is some pyramid where it goes one, three, four, six. I'll figure it out. But most important, the last four going backwards. Cleveland with the worst quarterback situation in the league, or would you have them leapfrogging New Orleans at this point? They probably leapfrogged. Sanders might be better than anyone in New Orleans. I agree with that. I think the Saints are probably the worst. All right, so we'll have the Saints last, which helps with all the unders and terrible Saints bets I have for them to suck.

1:03:07Bill Simmons:Cleveland second to last, and then Indy, God only knows. Richardson already has gotten dinged up. Daniel Jones is on that team. And then Russ Wilson and Rodgers. That's our bottom five. Rodgers, I just, I'm just stupefied by anyone thinking Rodgers is going to be good on Pittsburgh. I don't get it. I've talked about it. I know you have takes on that or no. The full list of quarterbacks age 42 or older that have just started 10 games in a season in the Super Bowl era. Want me to give it to you? Yeah. Tom Brady. That literally done. That's it. Nobody else has even started 10 games at this age. And then we saw what we saw last year.

1:03:44I'm with you. I don't know how you could be optimistic about that situation.

1:03:48Bill Simmons:I didn't see any semblance of a guy who wanted to get hit when I watched the games last year. So there we go. All right. My conciliar is Shio Kapadia. We're here. It's football time. What's your favorite future bet you've made? I like the Packers over. I think it's nine and a half for what we said earlier. Yeah, I think they're a 10 or 11 win team. So I think that's probably my favorite over right now. I think my favorite bet so far. Well, I have a bunch of Broncos bets that I was all excited about. But my favorite one, Miami, Cleveland, the Giants and Tennessee, no playoffs, plus 103. Yes, you put the Giants in there.

1:04:33Bill Simmons:I like it. I did that when I was, where was I? In Chicago for one day. And I jumped on Fando and I was like, I'm just jumping on this. If I had to say who would screw that up, it's probably Tennessee. It's just if Cam Ward is awesome. And we're like, oh my God, Cam Ward's awesome. They're going to go nine and eight and sneak into the seventh seed. That would be the one I would be worried about. But that was my favorite. All right. Shield, great to see you. Keep an eye on the Ringer NFL show next couple of weeks because we have some fun stuff brewing there. And in general, always great to see you.

1:05:05All right. Good to see you.

1:05:06Bill Simmons:Talk to you soon. Thanks. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, NFL Sunday Ticket. Kickoff's coming and with NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV, you get every game, every Sunday, all in one place. New users can get NFL Sunday Ticket for eight payments of just$30 a month. New users pay$240 or eight, eight non-cancelable payments of$30 a month. First charge of purchase, availability varies with NFL Sunday Ticket for out-of-market games and YouTube TV for local and national games. YouTube TV required. Terms, restrictions, and embargoes apply. Buy commercial use excluded, no refunds. This episode is brought to you by PayPal.

1:05:44Bill Simmons:All right, parents, PayPal's on your team. This back to school, I've been there myself. You're paying for sports gear, backpacks, sneakers, laptops. You've likely got multiple carts, your favorite online stores. Well, that's when PayPal comes in with the assist. Paying for, no interest, no fees, truly game-changing, subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com slash payinfor. PayPal Inc. and MLS 910457. All right, my old friend Kevin Wilds is here. He is a national talking head on FS1's First Things First, and yet continues to have the worst home video setup of any guests we have. I don't know how to do it.

1:06:28You know what? Because I'm never, I'm never, you know what, if I figured out how to do it, maybe I could say, hey, I'm going to do the show from home. But since I've never figured out how to do it, I go to the office every day. So I should probably invest some time. I still have three books. This is the first day of the pandemic. I'm like, I'm going to stack some books up.

1:06:49Bill Simmons:I was going to say, Kevin Wild's keeping 2020 alive. I'm in the room we never go to. There's nothing cool. I caught you on a Sunday night East Coast time after you went to a family function. and I asked if you'd been drinking and your comment, well, say what you said about when you have drinks these days. Well, I'd say I'm only Topo Chico now. Yeah. And I'm very aware that even after one drink, I'm less interesting. And it may have always been that way, but it certainly felt like I was more interesting or maybe it's that I felt like I was, you know, just like around in some conversation. predictable yeah or just like there was no maybe it's just because i don't feel awkward at all anymore ever i guess i've i've reached old man i don't feel the need to like lubricate any conversations anymore you're just hitting it 275 yards down the down the fairway you're not trying to hit it 300 at the same time my wife and i went through um because the kids were at camp these last two weeks.

1:07:57So she was going out with all of her friends.

1:07:59Bill Simmons:Yeah. Catching up. And, uh, she, and she told the kids like, yeah, dad doesn't have any friends. And I said, I have friends. She said, no, your friends in town are just the kids' parents. I said, yeah, but they're still my friends independently, but I don't have any independent friends. So maybe, maybe that's, maybe they're all tied together. You know, it's not just your wife that says that because my wife has said that too about how you never, you have all these friends, you never see them. And the reality is women are just better at coordinating when we hit their forties and after they're just better at coordinating dinners, going out, doing things.

1:08:38Bill Simmons:And whereas the guys, we were great at it in our teens and our twenties. And then it just gets worse every decade. And then eventually you're like, I haven't seen whoever in three years. And we're fine with it. Three years? Five years? I think my dad hasn't had seen buddies in like 40 years. But then I'll be like, hey, what's going on? Like nothing, got a new truck. Like, oh, that's good. And then, you know, the 10 minute conversation. Last year you came over to watch, what did we watch, football or basketball? Or you came over. Yeah, you just texted me. Yeah, you're like, hey, I'm in town. Can I come over?

1:09:10Bill Simmons:I was like, I was delighted that somebody was coming over on short notice. It might be the too much, it might be too much texting. That texting gives you a false sense of connectivity where you really should just like old school, like Seinfeld apartment style, just like Elaine's here, like just show up. So just, I mean, I'll just show up. Yeah. I've seen a lot of my old friends this summer just for different reasons. And it's always one of those things where it's like, why don't we make a concerted effort to do this more often? But the reality is guys are just bad at it. Well, too much planning.

1:09:45Yeah. I think it's that. I think it's like, hey, could you do, you know, can you, hey, Bill, how about November 17th? Like, well, I know I got this thing. It has to be like, hey, tomorrow we're like, right now, 9 p.m. It's how you book the podcast. 9 p.m. But you know who's figured it out? Who?

1:10:06Bill Simmons:The golf people and the fishing people. They do like golf trips, going to wherever, going to Pinehurst in late April. And they plan it nine months ahead of time because you have to make reservations. And the same thing with the weirdo fishing people. So I know a bunch of fishing people and they're like, yeah, we're gonna go fishing. And then we all get together and we take gummies and then we catch the fish and we throw them back. It's like, what's fun about that? But it's smaller windows. Like, I think if we were into something with a limited window, like my buddy who fish is like, oh, excuse me, striped bass are running.

1:10:42So you have to, you guys have to hang out in this time period. Yeah. But if we're just going to watch football, like, hey, want to hang out sometime between preseason and the Super Bowl? Yeah, we'll figure it out. And next thing you know, the Super Bowl is over. Week 8, week 10. Yeah, it just never happens. It just never happens. It's like, you know, I'll get you next year. You want to do the draft?

1:11:00Bill Simmons:Like, yeah, yeah. We have sporting events that will go to like a basketball game. Yeah, that was good. You come to New York. That was good. I forget where I saw this first, but somebody said when men gather together, it's better. They like situations where they're both next to each other, looking at the same thing forward. But when women are together, they like looking at each other. They like being, it's like this weird physics thing, not sociological thing, whatever the right word is. But I like to look, I don't want to look at, it's too confrontational. We like, like on a road trip where somebody's next to somebody, you drive to Vegas or like you play blackjack together.

1:11:44Bill Simmons:You're on a table. Yes. Whereas like women like seeing each other. No, like I would prefer like a TV. If like we all went out to dinner, TV sitcom seating where we're all like in a round, like in a horseshoe. Yeah. And then the cameras there, they, Oh, what's going on? But you're never like locked in mano. We mono. Like, does this guy want to fight me right now? Like what's going on? Well, you're, you're my legitimate friend. and I think I've seen you once in three years. The other problem is the better friend you are, the less time. I have my buddy that I grew up with that my mom taught with.

1:12:24I haven't seen him in 20 years, but I have friends with him. He's my friend. But if we were worse friends, we'd hang out. Like, I gotta see that guy.

1:12:34Bill Simmons:Yeah, because you gotta like almost, you gotta make the friendship happen. Yeah, true. We're post-friendship. See each other whenever. That's right. Just we're both friendship, both hanging out. I made you the second guest on this podcast because I knew your camera setup was going to be terrible. And now we've moved to a video podcast era. You missed, I unveiled my QB pyramid for the preseason. And Patrick Mahomes was not in the number one spot. It was Josh Allen. You know, probably statistically fair. at the same time, like, Zeno 0-4 against him head-to-head in the playoffs. Yeah, he is. That's got to, I mean, something.

1:13:17Bill Simmons:I'm trying to light a fire under Mahomes because I just didn't love last season for him. For somebody who's supposed to be the GOAT, and I didn't like all the money I lost on him in the Super Bowl. So you know what? Fire lit. Yeah. I mean, if he, the weird thing that's going to happen is, if they win and he has another statistically mediocre season yeah are we just gonna say like ah you know it's actually like look at some of those Brady years and maybe he is kind of like post statistics and his fourth quarter statistics are still crazy his like record he's like what is he's like 700 winning percentage like when he's down a score in the fourth quarter it's 14 and when they're trailing in the fourth quarter.

1:14:02It's just like it's an unnatural stat. So until those things go sideways... You still have him one. I still actually have him one. I like to tease Nick Wright about it. And I don't love the hypothetical draft, like start a franchise, but I feel like he's obviously the answer.

1:14:20Bill Simmons:Yeah, the thing is, I'm not sure he is anymore. This is it. But then what happened? I just thought Allen was incredible last season. And it's the classic, if you just switch the guys and their situations, how would each team look? And I think it's just, it's open for a debate, which is fun. And it's the worst sports summer we've had all decades. So it's the kind of thing we argue about. He was down, like, he had the ball with three minutes left in the fourth quarter. And if I get like, hey, one of these guys is definitely going to score and one of them's not. And the season's going to be over on a bad push-push.

1:14:55He was still in my hopes.

1:14:56Bill Simmons:I know. I do love I mean he is amazing but I'm still a Mahomes guy Are you a Travion Henderson? Like what kind of stock do you have at this point? Kevin and I are both Pats fans for the audience. The Henderson thing was unbelievable on Friday night. So here's how I'm viewing. I don't know how to really watch preseason football because there's too many variables so this is how I've come to judge it in my mind. You know how they do ice skating? Like the spinning ice skating like the flips and stuff. No flips. Flips are actually not a lot, but twirls. Yeah. They take all the, you know, the six scores, top score, bottom score and top score get thrown out.

1:15:37And you just judge from these scores. I do the opposite. I'm like, let me look at this preseason game and look at your worst plays and your best. That's all I care. Everything in the middle that looks like a normal play, I throw out. I'm just looking for the peaks and valleys. Yeah. And that was a definite peak. all in. Surprise, surprise, the fast guy from Ohio State still looks super fast. There's been zero letdown. Amazing. The Drake May thing on the other hand, I'm surprised that is being dismissed so casually. The Mac Jones-ian oh, you know, I'm going to take a sack. Let me try to make something amazing happen or just get rid of the ball.

1:16:18I hated that with all my heart. I hated that so much. It really put a scare into me. Hopefully it did variable as well.

1:16:26Bill Simmons:Henderson was genuinely euphorically exciting. He just has it. You just know right away. It's like this guy's clearly an NFL running back who's going to be explosive and awesome. Yeah, he's at least Gibbs. Yes, at least Gibbs is a fantastic comparison. But I mean, how they're going to use him and the kind of explosiveness he's going to have. They have speed and they can block. And I think you and I are both, we would have been probably leaning high on them anyway. but when you throw in the schedule and the coach and it's just, it's the entire recipe, but there's the Drake May piece. That's the, that's the one variable.

1:17:02Bill Simmons:It's like, is he a year away from being ready for this or is he ready now? He should be ready now. Here's the other thing no one's talking about. I think coach Mangini told me this. Oh, what a name drop. Josh McDaniels. We're like, oh, and we have Josh McDaniels. Josh McDaniels has gotten better. It's like Josh McDaniels has been like moving around, studying stuff. Josh McDaniel's revenge tour is happening now too. So I think that it's just natural for all Patriots fans. Like, oh yeah, Josh McDaniel's proven quality. No, what if the Josh McDaniel's last time you saw him is now a much better coordinator?

1:17:37Besides the fact that he got more head coaching. Now he's a much better offensive coordinator. Like, hey guys, by the way, I think we had the ninth best scoring offense with Mac Jones. Like, I'm going to make this work. And he couldn't run a yard. Like, it's going to work. I made games interesting with Cam Newton. He couldn't throw. And now I get to combine those guys. It's an odd comparison, Mac Jones and Drake May. Excuse me, Mac and Cam. But you have a guy who can throw the ball and run. I think, you know, I'm probably too optimistic. I'm like, if I had another Topo Chico, I'd start talking crazy about the Patriots.

1:18:14Bill Simmons:I had them 12 and 5 mentally two weeks ago. Now I've run it down to 10 and 7. Now I'm mentally 10-7 again. I had a 12-5 stretch for like four days when they were all excited about the rookies. I know. I'm not saying it's rational. Like if we lost their opening game to the Raiders with Pete Carroll and Gina, I'd be like, what? Yeah, like you guys are the Patriots. What makes you like, I don't know. We just, we thought we were awesome. Preseason's idiotic. But you can notice is a team, do they actually have some sort of identity that they're going for? And for the Patriots, the identity is they're a violent team.

1:18:54Bill Simmons:This version of the Vrabel team, it's like a hats to the ball, people blocking after the whistle. Oh my goodness, Will Campbell. All that shit's happening. You know what it comes back to? Vrabel jumping in the pile. Yeah. Vrabel coming up bloody. I just, I mean, I just love it. I would be, if we're not good this year, it's really gonna, I'm gonna really be doing some soul searching. Well, especially you think Miami's not going to be good, the Jets. Are we sure Miami's not going to be good? Yeah, I am. I'm sure the Bills are going to be good. Yeah. I look at Aaron Glenn and Justin Fields, who I've seen torture the Patriots, and Sauce and Garrett Wilson.

1:19:33I'm like, I'm not willing to say they're going to be bad.

1:19:37Bill Simmons:I'm with you on the Jets. There's some sort of running defense, low-scoring, kind of physical identity that they might have. that's happening for them too and I know like we just assumed that the Dolphins are going to be bad but we're going to go down there and lose like we do every year and then it's oh surprise surprise Tua who has led the league at some point in completion percentage yards in like yards per attempt he's going to do something crazy again like oh yeah Tua is actually pretty good Tyreek Hill is pretty good like a chance like I'm just not willing to write them off as being bad.

1:20:14Yeah, they're going to be kind of like a chill team because it's Miami, but...

1:20:18Bill Simmons:Offensive line is terrible. Secondary is going to be terrible. I have no idea if their coach is good. We still don't know. He's certainly good in press conferences. He didn't get worse. Well, he might have never been good. I think we just wanted him to be good because his press conferences were fun. And then Tua gets hurt every year. Yeah. What was your bleakest moment during one of the bleakest sports content summers we've had? what was the what was the bleakest show what was the most forced segment where it's like fuck it's wednesday we got nothing we have talked more let me say this not too mean-spirited but there's a point where i think trey hendrickson's immediate family would have days we you know and people are you know dad's got to go to home depot and the mom's got to go you know run some errands and sisters and everybody's aunts and uncles.

1:21:11I think there's days where Trey Hendrickson's immediate family talked less about Trey Hendrickson than we did on the show. We talk a lot of Trey Hendrickson. I'm like, guys, I don't think Trey Hendrickson's moving the knee. He led the league in sacks in Cincinnati. I think the deal's getting done. When he does come back, they had a horrible offense. It's not even Michael Parsons, which is the Cowboys into Micah.

1:21:40Bill Simmons:Oh, I can't wait to talk about that. I have a half-baked idea specifically for that. Right away? Well, no, you're starting half-baked ideas. It's your thing. But I have a half-baked idea. It's peripherally tied to Micah Parsons. But we've been doing half-baked ideas. This is your thing. It's been your thing forever. When I had my old podcast on ESPN, you used to come on and do them. We kept them going. We kept them going. And now almost 17, 18 years later, you still have half-baked ideas. I asked you to come up with some. I always bring like a couple small ones but this is really your show what's on the docket do we have like appetizers and a giant entree is it multiple entrees I have two food ones right off the jump if you want to do that let's go restaurant idea I wrote down phrases to get you interested food mediocre Ambiance, blah.

1:22:42Service, unreliable. Location, inconvenient. Menu font, freaking huge. Huge font. The font's huge. The bill, when your bill comes, that's huge. The fonts in this place.

1:23:02Bill Simmons:So it's just for people whose eyesight is kind of going on them a little bit? They're not saying that. Is it called Huge Font Restaurant? Maybe, but I would like to dance around it a little bit more. But it is a place I'm tired of going to somewhere and being embarrassed. Like, I'm not... Very lit, like huge lights, like almost like studio lights? No, because I hate that. I don't like that at all. It's just the font. The font's out here like the teleprompter you have to read at the Academy Awards. from when it's out in the seats. Huge font. Oh yeah, there it is. I'll have the beef Wellington. Just Wellington, almost like a graffiti train.

1:23:41Boom. Huge font. Bill comes. What? Is that, how much is this? Is that, am I going to tip wrong? Am I, I don't know.

1:23:51Bill Simmons:You're using your Apple phone to try to put the light on? I don't do the phone though because like the senior citizen, two tables down is using the phone. I can't do that. It's probably me. You know what I'm doing? dangerous i take the candle i'm like oh no i'm just looking at the candle i'm about to burn the whole restaurant down so not at huge font not at the huge font diner no huge font restaurant you're in there you can you know have a good meal and leave with your dignity intact also a good start i love huge font huge font restaurant what was the other restaurant one okay i can i i had a nice dinner i made nice dinner for the family steak some vegetables i'm on the grill i'm doing my thing we set it up we got the uh we got the plates steak we got the whole thing right flowers only thing i can't do and the best part of eating at a restaurant can't do the bread i can't figure it out either i get it from the store and it's like stale by the time it gets in the home it's just like i gotta cut it i can't cut it it's like hard it's like a eastern stick of uh bread or i've got bread in a plastic bag that looks like uh it's been there for a week and hasn't aged at all it's like when i you know what the algorithm is serving up all these like fitness influencers like i'm 74 i'm like bro you actually look right the fact that you haven't aged makes you even grosser.

1:25:20That's that bread. Ice cream truck for bread. Comes around the neighborhood, 515. It's got a little bread song. Who wants bread? Maybe it's French. There's a guy with a little chapeau on. He comes out. Oh, good. My hot bread. I leave a little French boy. I have a striped shirt on. I'm bicycling to my home. Come in, slice the bread. I've got everything working. Oh, it comes in a basket as well, obviously, like a cool basket. It's different types. I don't know where you get that bread. Pretzel bread. And then your meal goes to the next level. And you don't have to deal with any. If there's not a large font restaurant within your vicinity, you can have the restaurant experience at home and not get embarrassed.

1:26:09Bill Simmons:That might be a fully baked idea. That one works. I actually had a restaurant one as well. Let's hear it. You know, I go out to dinner from time to time. Sure. Double dates, go out with the wife, go out with a bunch of people. And this has been ever since I've gone out to dinner, even as a kid with my mom, my stepdad, or my dad or my stepmom, whatever. You go to the restaurant a bunch and you get to know some of the people. I'm like, you know me. I'm like, I don't want to know my neighbors. I'm not friends. other people like super friendly and some people will make friends with the maitre d the maitre d i don't know why i called it maitre d i wouldn't correct you it's it's re i'm not even sure it's french again maitre d i'll talk to whoever the host yeah and the person come over and it's like and uh come and do the whole thing um we saw this happen in baseball with they sped up the game in baseball.

1:27:08Bill Simmons:They had the pitch clock. I think make sure to hit clock. There's a little bell on the thing. It's like a minute. It's like in chess. It's like searching for Bobby Fisher. They come over, they hit the clock. It's a minute. And they give the, how are you guys doing? How are you? Go anywhere? But it's got to be done in 60 seconds. You can't linger for the seven minutes where it's like one of the four people at the table who's probably had too much to drink. They're like, so what's happening with Rosa? Did she go off to college yet? And you're just like, what just happened? We were just talking about our friends who just got divorced.

1:27:43Can we go back to talking about

1:27:45Bill Simmons:our divorce friends? We got the zoning to add another level. What are we talking about? Zoning Rose? 60 seconds or less. Maitre D, stop talk. It's like chess. Bang it. 60 seconds. But you want to be friends. I think that's fair. Friendly. 60 seconds is more than enough to catch up. That is a third of a heavyweight fight. You can get it done in 60 seconds. So this was the Sopranos episode. Artie was going over to the tables and hanging around too long. And then finally, somebody said something to him. And his feelings got hurt. And he's like, that's why they come. They come for the food and then talk to me.

1:28:24Bill Simmons:And his wife was like, they hate when you come over. Don't come over. I think there's a middle ground. I like talking, but then get out. All right, what's your next half-baked idea?

1:28:37Bill Simmons:We're moving away from restaurants now. Oh, this is similar about baseball. So, oh, this is the rarest of all things. Someone coming up to me, a fan of the podcast, pitching me a half-baked idea. Oh. Do you like that or you feel like you... Look, I appreciate people love the show. The show is very popular. you are in the my I you know I pop in every once in a while but this is a very uh narrow needle to thread because if it's a good idea I'll be like buddy that's just a good idea that's not what I'm into and if it's a bad idea like why is this guy talking about bad ideas it's got to be a half-baked idea and it's tough it's just tough next thing you know my buddy Tim I was like, Tim, you've done it.

1:29:30That is the perfect half-baked idea.

1:29:33Bill Simmons:Okay. Perfect. So he says, he's like, I'm watching this baseball game the other night. Gets out of hand. And they bring in the position player to pitch, which is fun. It's always exciting. I always enjoy it. It's fun for a little while. But, you know, the bloom is off the rose eventually. If he's still in there and he's lobbing it. For like three innings? Yeah, yeah. It's too much. The other day, and I wrote it down, Rockies, Blue Jays, it was 12-1. They bring in the backup catcher. He gives up eight runs. So now the Blue Jays are up there blasting this guy. It's like, all right, enough. Yeah.

1:30:13Like, should their stats even really count? I'm like, I don't know. So this is my buddy Tim Stokes. He goes, you know how they have those emergency goalies in hockey? Yeah. Where it's just like the local guy who played hockey. they don't try to take a position player and suit them up like oh you're a goalie now they have a real goalie who's just an amateur and that's even more exciting because sometimes those guys like win games high school high school flame outs triple uh college kids they're just on they're just on duty at the game they're yes they have both jerseys ready and their high school hat or whatever they are it's like hey it's 12-1 we're bringing in tim he he works at lowe's but he was all state five years ago for the falcons yeah and he comes in and next thing you know it's him and otani it's so much better and but he's throwing gas he's not throwing these lollipops he's really trying to throw and who knows you get a little rally maybe get a nice story out of it so best

1:31:21Bill Simmons:In this case scenario, the guy's awesome and maybe gets signed to like a triple A deal. Yeah. I don't need to see, you know, it's fun for the first lollipop pitch. And then it's like, oh, we threw a fast one. But this guy's out here trying to really throw. Got a few of them. I like it. So it's almost like, what's the both sides QB in a touch football game? What do we call that? The all-time QB? The all-time QB. It's like an all-time pitcher. He's just available for either side. Either side. It's like we're playing in Philadelphia this weekend, and our all-time pitcher for the weekend, you remember him?

1:31:55Bill Simmons:He pitched at Drexel for two years. Yes. And his buddies, the weird thing is, his buddies wouldn't even go to the game because he's going to be sitting there for 80 games. Right. But you never know. Three times a year. He walks in, and he's got his Drexel hat, and people start going nuts. He gets good seats. Oh, yeah. He's always, he's just worried. Oh, he's warming up. So when it's, so it's like an eight or nine run game. It's eight to one, nine to one. All of a sudden he gets, he starts, takes on, gets start loosening up. Yeah, that would be great. All the Drexel along. The other idea I had of that, I put this one on Twitter of how they've made all these relief pitchers, their entrances have gotten really produced.

1:32:40Would you be into that with field goal kickers in pivotal moments? the lights go out in the stadium it's like

1:32:51Harrison Butker people are going nuts the place is going crazy or the other option it's home team specific when the other guy is getting ready you play some like I don't know non-confident music I don't know what that is other than like... That Coldplay song that the couple was on the Jumbo Trot for. He's like, what? What is that inferring? It's like really in his own head. Or you play the healthy relationship. Yeah, just something. But it's more... I don't know how much money and time the Mets are spending on that, but it really works. And the Phillies are doing it too. There's like fire and stuff happening.

1:33:37More entrances. People love them. No one's ever upset at an entrance. I don't remember...

1:33:43Bill Simmons:I don't remember when it started with the reliever music, but Papelbon was the first Red Sox guy that, remember he used to come in. What did he come into? He came into the Dropkick Murphy song. Oh, I thought that was just a Red Sox song. He started that? Didn't he come in? That was the song, right? I'm old. I can't remember anything anymore. I always just assumed that was a Red Sox. But I don't remember anything before that. That felt like the era. Mariano used to come into Enter Sandman. That was a big thing. So that was late 90s. But there's got to be somebody before then. But then, it didn't used to be cool.

1:34:18Like, it used to be like the Rolaids fireman of the year. They used to just play like the Rolaids music, I think, the Rolaids theme song.

1:34:24Bill Simmons:Well, WWE had entrances forever. And then the Road Dogg, Jesse James, and Billy Gunn would come out and be, oh, you didn't know? Your ass better call somebody! And the whole crowd would go nuts. And then in wrestling, they were like, oh, shit, we got to, it's entrance time. It became like a call and response. and then the pyro started going. I just walled it. I think your field goal kicker thing is a really interesting idea. So Bucker's warming up. I guess there's not enough time. We would almost have to be coming out of a timeout or something. Yeah, I mean, you just build time in for it. Like, he takes his sweet time.

1:35:07He jogs out there. People are going nuts. I really like it. I'm checking that one as a win.

1:35:14Bill Simmons:No, that's a win. This episode is brought to you by PNC Bank. In today's sports, everyone is constantly trying to outdo each other. Trick formations, infield shifts, constant rotation changes, yet it's proven time and time again that strong fundamentals are the thing that will lead you to victory. Banking, no different. While everyone else tries to outdo each other, PNC Bank just keeps going right down the middle with steady calculated money moves and the financial wins just keep coming. PNC Bank, brilliantly boring since 1865, brilliantly boring since 1865 as a registered mark of the PNC Financial Services Group Incorporated.

1:35:51Bill Simmons:PNC Bank, National Association, member FDIC. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Whether you're racing to build the biggest sandcastle, seeing who can throw the fastest pitch or competing in a championship match, it's always better when there's a prize on the line. Like a Michelob Ultra, smooth, refreshing, and so satisfying after all that hard work. Superior is worth playing for. Michelob Ultra, Superior Light Beer. Enter for a chance to win Superior Soccer, Basketball, and Golf Prizes at Michelob Ultra.com slash Superior Access. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026, Anheuser-Busch, Michelob Ultra Light Beer, St.

1:36:29Bill Simmons:Louis, Missouri. I had a quick one. Okay. Restaurant related. Another one? Yeah. I've talked about this with Chang. Chang and all the chefs, they really get mad about this. My whole thing on dry-aged steak. Yeah. I don't know if you've heard me do this. No, I haven't heard this. All the foodies go nuts about the dry-aged steak and how great it is and it's so buttery and it's a whole other level. It's like the greatest steak you can have and oh, this is aged for 180 days and then you just get diarrhea that night. And I don't think the common person cares whether a steak has been dry aged or not.

1:37:12Bill Simmons:I think this is really for like the food elite and the people who really care about this shit. You can definitely, it definitely tastes a little different, a little elevated, but I don't know. Like how many friends do you have who are like, oh, we got to go to this place. It's 90 day dry aged. If you put me to the test, I would probably put steak and wine in the same category of Like if you say so, oh yeah, I can taste it. So, but I know it's not a hamburger, but like, yeah, I got this steak from Costco and this one's been hanging in like the Louvre for two years. I'm like, all right. They both, they're pretty good for me.

1:37:51They got salt on it.

1:37:54Bill Simmons:So this brings me to my take. Cause I think I'm like this. And I think a lot of people are like this where it's like, if you say so. and this is really for your show and for the daily talk shows where you come up with stuff dry aged takes you came up with the take but you've been marinating on it for 180 days and then you're like guys I have a dry aged take I've been thinking about it since December 2024 and now the take is ready it's a dry aged take and it really is just a take you came up with anyway but because you said it was dry age now I have to take it more seriously you've been marinating on this for 170 days it's a take but it's not a take like I'm not putting a take into the you know wherever it is it's something that's ready I haven't been ready to debut this take yet it would be like me saying now I think Josh Allen is at the top of my QB pyramid and here are my reasons why and I have it laid out and it's like, I've actually felt this way since February, but I've been dry aging it and going on pro football reference and really trying to get it ready.

1:39:10I feel like you need to, you have to have some like proof that it's dry aged. I feel like -

1:39:17Bill Simmons:But that's the thing, do we have proof with the steaks? When they're like, it's 180 days. What is it? Do you have photos of each day? How do I know it was 180 days? It could have been like 30. I also am too embarrassed to be like, so I just threw away some ground beef that was in the fridge because it said sell by, you know, August 5th and it's August whatever now. Yeah. So how does the 180 days thing work? Because I thought it was rotten. Is it just. No, they put all this stuff on it. See, this Chang is probably listening to this losing his mind now. Yeah, it's like salt. They cured all this stuff.

1:39:52That's not my problem. I'm the consumer. The restaurant industry hasn't done a good job messaging to me.

1:39:59Bill Simmons:I'm a little worried that this is a whole marketing thing and it's a little like crypto. We just go to a restaurant and serve it. Yeah, it's a 180-day dry-aged steak and they're just making it up. It's like one day. They didn't do it at all. How do we know? People lie about everything. Our AI is coming. Our whole society is about deceiving other people. We can't lie about dry-aged steak. I mean, yeah, I guess you could. All right, I got another one from my buddy. Okay. Lives down the street from me. So this is the same one who came up with the other one? No, different guy. Different guy. I was going to say, that guy's on fire.

1:40:36Bill Simmons:For me, I'm not having any friends. I'm really just all made up. He seems like you're filled with friends. No, no, they're all fake. They're all just AI bots. Dry-age friends. All right, so I think he, I don't know. I forgot how he got to this. I'm going to say he was on a skiing, he was in a skiing accident. I was like, I'm taking some creative liberties with this. I'm like, how you been? He comes over. He's like, oh, good. We went out skiing. And I'm like, oh, that sounds lovely. I don't love skiing. I don't love falling down. He's like, yeah, I broke something. Had to get surgery on a bunch of surgery.

1:41:11I said, oh, that sounds bad. I'm like, did you have to go under for that? He's like, yeah. I was like, oh, that stinks. He goes, no, I love it.

1:41:24I'm like what do you mean you love it he's like I love it I love going over he's like I love anesthesia I'm like I don't know if this is good it sounds like you're like on the verge he's like no I love it so he's like I'm like you know I'm going to talk to Bill about he also loves it I'm going to talk to Bill about that voluntary anesthesia but you don't want to just like I don't think doing it recreationally can't you die during anesthesia like it's like relatively dangerous you know you can die a lot of ways so it's under yes I don't think again it's half baked I'm not saying you should do recreational anesthesia so I'm trying to this is what I'm trying to I'm trying to round the edges of his idea so he's like yeah I love it I'm like alright so same time send my Volvo we got a Volvo We went and sent the Volvo.

1:42:23It's been gone for three days. It's just, we thought it needed a tire change in oil. It's like, no, we're giving it a thousand point inspection. They're checking everything. I was like, boom. Go into the doctor. Instead of getting a, last time I got a checkup, they're like, how much do you weigh? I'm like, are you weighing me? What? I can do this on my own. I'm paying for this to get weighed and measured and check. Yes, my heart is still beating. Go under. run it off run everything just treat me like a volvo yeah we're already crossed the biggest when you got a colonoscopy we've already crossed the largest hurdle just get in there check the lungs check the stents check it all man what's going on up here just make sure nothing's growing anywhere check it all and it's and make it yearly but really get under the hood So just yearly

1:43:20Bill Simmons:Intentional anesthesia once a year Just go to town on me Extreme checkups Extreme checkups I want to make sure I come out Refurbished I'm brand new Heck, take some stuff out Just like Do an Easter Switch some stuff out Hey, switch out You know what? Your Achilles tendon's got 45 years of use on it We threw a new one in there. Oh, cool. Thanks. Sticks me up, dude. This is probably where life is going. I'm just getting switched out. I like this. Well, it reminds me of like the people who intentionally get IVs the next day after they've done a lot of drinking is the thing that's a 21st century thing.

1:44:04Yeah.

1:44:06Bill Simmons:Our generation did not do. No. But some people swear by it. Well, of course it works, but you're getting an IV. It's part of like you have to deal with the punishment. that's part of the that's part of the process that's how I felt you're not done with the race yet you have to crash, it's part of it what's your next one? you might like this

1:44:35this is a bad idea what do you think about remember you kicked around the idea of like there's some podcasts out there that maybe it's just all podcasts that are like two hour podcasts but they're only existing for like the gold clip to to take off and the rest of the podcast is kind of in support of kind of mining just trying to get that 90 second instagram yeah and that's what actually is the driver and everything else is kind of it's like when you find out like you know mcdonald's actually only selling you the drink and the food is all free what yeah it's like drinks were the margin it's like oh i didn't realize it's like paul george's

1:45:15Bill Simmons:pod when he's like there's a time there where i was the best best player in the league if you actually look at it i was better than lebron and it's like whoa clip yeah you have no idea what happened on the rest of the podcast no so i'll be watching youtube's uh some random clips from movies and everyone's like, it's a good clip, a good scene. And then the first comment on YouTube is like, what movie is this from? And someone will write, I don't know what movie it was from. And then it'll be a movie like, I don't know if that movie even exists. This movie might just exist for this scene. So not short films, just scenes.

1:46:04like hey so i wrote down some scenes i'll give you i'll make a sports one this classic scene that i'll always watch it happened i think it was inspired by diehard but you've seen a few times bad guys that you know the bad guys got a uh you know bad guys got a dodgers hat on yeah he's he doesn't he doesn't like dodgers he doesn't know he's from somewhere else and you walk up you're the good guy you're like hey who the dot what was you get the dodgers lakers score and he's like oh yeah five four yeah you're not a doctor's fan buddy you're a bad guy love it oh what's happening you're speaking in a foreign language to your uh counterpart because you think i don't understand it surprise surprise i do speak that language and i answered back to you so just several scenes it sounds like ai could just do that now so i want it so so i'm gonna get to another one car chasing going through different markets and think fruits exploding and all that then i got to can you combine all of these scenes and i just wrote down die hard in a costco oh where's that scene from it's from die hard in a costco oh yeah the movie doesn't actually exist but you make it

1:47:20Bill Simmons:It seemed like it did. No, but maybe I just put enough. It's got like 12 scenes, but there's no like opening scene. Like the movie doesn't actually work. You can't sit and watch the movie. It's just 12 scenes from Die Hard in a Costco. But you get it. I thought you were going toward playing scenes, you know, when they play the scenes to fire up the crowd at like an NBA game. Yeah. But now they have this technology with the AI where like there was a great one last week where Aaron Judge was just like, Aaron Boone's an idiot. I wish I played for the Red Sox. It was like this minute-long thing, but it was just AI changing his voice.

1:47:59Bill Simmons:But I thought that's where you were going, where you take scenes and you can show them to the crowd and it's just the stuff to get the fans fired up. That would work too. But would you get really fired up on that? People don't like AI. I didn't really like it until the Aaron Judge Red Sox thing. And then I was like, there's something here. My dad got completely fooled like six months ago with, uh, with a Chris Stapp's Porzingis AI thing where he gave something, he just said all these crazy things. And my dad was like, did you hear what Porzingis said? This is going to be bad. I was like, dad, dad, this is AI.

1:48:39Bill Simmons:No, there's going to be like AI disclaimer soon. That's going to be the end of us. I have a really quick one, by the way. All right, go. So, you know, on Instagram, if you look at like the, there's, there's some thing on Instagram where you can look at this for you suggestions and it's all of these things and it's supposed to mirror the stuff you care about, but it's really like when you look at it, it's like, oh no, it's this stuff I care about. I think you should be able to pay extra for some Instagram filter for that section where it's like all stuff that makes you seem like a great person.

1:49:21It's a subscription tier. It's just like, oh, hey, here's the charities that you've donated to.

1:49:27Bill Simmons:If anyone picks up your phone and they look at your Instagram, they're like, wow. Oh, man, look at this. He's just doing a lot of research on human behavior. Yeah. I didn't realize you were this into like saving redwood trees. Yeah. You see how much carbon dioxide they take out of the environment? I didn't realize he liked clean water this much. These are all his videos. He's like, wow. He really wants the WNBA players to get paid. This guy's a really - It's like 40 videos in a row about it. This is a great guy. It's like basically virtual signaling Instagram filter. I pay extra. and then I just look like I'm like the best guy ever.

1:50:08Maybe it's just worthwhile even if no one ever sees it, just for yourself, your own self-worth.

1:50:13Bill Simmons:Yeah, so I don't have to actually look at what the algorithm says I like. Yeah. What's your next one? This is, I don't even, well, this goes back to Drake May. This goes back to this specific play that we already talked about. So if you didn't see the play, Drake May is trying to avoid a sack. he decides to either throw the ball out of bounds or throw the ball for an incompletion and while he's getting tackled of course he cocks his arm back and the ball falls out classic doing too much classic Mac Jones again play and so the half-baked idea is this everybody brings in motivational speakers right to these teams like holy cow this guy this woman did all this amazing stuff the motivational speaker that Mike Rabel needs to bring in.

1:51:07And this happens every six weeks. Oh, a plane going from Paris to New York had to land in the Azores. Something wasn't right. Okay. Oh, this plane was going from New York to Miami. Uh-oh. Had to land in Dulles. Something was wrong. And the pilot gets out and he gets razzed by his buddies. Ah, you could have made it. Ah, Timmy, you're scared to fly with, you know, a gas gauge. You know you just tap on it, it'll work. You wimp. Beard on you. And Timmy's going to get up there. He's like, you know what? Yeah, everybody made fun of me. But guess what old Timmy the pilot didn't do? Lose the plane or lose anybody's life.

1:51:59stop trying to do heroic stuff take the sack tuck it fall down it's several but then another pilot hey my name's John I was on a flight from Dallas to Kansas City I had to land it in Oklahoma City you know what it wasn't perfect I lived to fly another day if Drake May starts doing heroic stuff I'm gonna have Mac Jones I'm gonna lose my mind I'm just gonna go crazy

1:52:26Bill Simmons:so you had the pilot come in and be like You know, Captain Sully, you don't know me. Exactly. We were flying to Hawaii. Somebody got sick on the plane. I turned us around and got us back to LA. Yeah. And everyone was safe. Yep. And everybody was pissed off. But guess what? I was right. No news story the next day. But guess what? Everybody lived. And you know what? The best play is the play you don't make. There's no movie about me. I didn't get a raise. In fact, I got penalized. It's like anti-Captain Sully. I like that. That's what we need. Don't do dumb stuff, Drake May. You're so close to being great.

1:53:03This idea is not even an idea. It's just two words. But I feel like there's something there. What do you think? Well, I just wrote LeBron golf. Those are two words. What do you think about LeBron's golfing journey?

1:53:14Bill Simmons:So I know somebody, a good friend of mine is at the same club as where LeBron goes. So I won't name the club. But apparently he's there every day. just like i want with his son some of the times too it feels like there's i just assume there's lots of guys like me who are like having kind of missed the golfing window and need a reason to do it but i'm not you know it's like anything it's like hey i'm just gonna start golfing randomly my wife's gonna be like what why is there clubs here why are you in the garage all the time um but i feel like lebron is like my entryway like oh yeah lebron started golfing with his son Maybe I'll do that.

1:53:55It just feels like there's either a reality. You might inspire a whole nation. Yeah. I don't know if it's a reality. It feels bigger than a reality. It feels like a platform. It's like he's out there and I'm rooting for him. And he's like, hey, can you golf as good as LeBron? And I don't know. It just feels like there's something for Nike to do or for him to do to get a lot of people into golf.

1:54:18Bill Simmons:Well, the thing is, it's like the best version of a midlife crisis, right? When one of your friends starts playing golf, I'm always like jealous. It's the, well, cause it's just like, man, that's great. I would, I would love to just spend the summer trying to see how good I could get at golf. And then like his buddies, like, and then they're just, it was very just like normal guys at work. And like, Steph's like, Hey, I've been waiting for you. It's just felt very normal. I'm like, I want to be in this. I was like, Hey, how'd you do today? LeBron. It's the first great social media thing he's done in a while.

1:54:54Bill Simmons:I'm invested in it too. I want to see his shots. I want to see... He's one of the greatest athletes we've ever had. How easy would it be for him to just be good at golf? Yes, how good is he going to get? I don't even know anything about golf. Well, he's too tall. Everyone says... Oh, he's too tall? And that was the Jordan issue too. No, I mean, to be really good. He's good, but I think when you get past 6 '4", that's why when you see all the really good golfers like once you get over 6 '4 it gets hard because you just have more you have a longer body there's more ways it could go wrong on a swing right?

1:55:32Bill Simmons:there's no like 7 foot golfer they're like oh the crew is churning out these tall golfers this is revolutionizing golf busy playing basketball it's almost like the running back position like the running backs look like the best most successful type of running back is always going to be like Trevion Henderson or Saquon Barkley, like that kind of body. So 6 '8 for 6 '8 and a half for golf, it's hard. That's even better then. It's even more of a struggle. I'm glad you brought this up. I'm also invested in LeBron's golf and I want to see how good he can get. It'd be funny if he was just like, I'm going to shoot a 75 by December.

1:56:11Yeah. Like, could he do it? There's also like a whole Jordan element to it. Like if he gets better at golf in Jordan, or maybe they get together in golf and it's this great thing. That won't happen. I'm just really into LeBron golfing. I'm like shocked at how into it I am.

1:56:26Bill Simmons:Speaking of NBA legends, I have a quick one. Okay. So I've noticed that, you know, every player, every ex player has a podcast at this point. And Kobe gets thrown around a lot, like stories about Kobe, these interactions they had with Kobe or Kobe hoping them out. Legendaries. Yeah, his legend continues to grow. And Kobe, one of the things I liked about him when he played was he kind of didn't want to be friends with anybody. He was pretty famous for that. Like he was pretty cutthroat in a fun way and wanted to destroy everybody else and famously didn't have a lot of friends and wasn't one of those, what are you doing after the game, guys?

1:57:08Bill Simmons:And even like at the Olympics, I think he kind of stayed on his own. I suggest, I think it's like a PI, but it's not even like a full-time job. It's Cove detector. Anytime somebody on a podcast tells some Kobe Bryant story, I just think it should be investigated. I want to find out if it's actually true or not. Because my guard is always up with every, where it's like, man, then Cove called me one night. And I was in a big shooting slump and Cove saw it and he noticed and he called me out. And I'm just like, I don't know if I believe this. Wow. I just don't think he did. I'm believing them all.

1:57:45You believe them all? But it's gotten to the point where I feel like anybody can say anything. It all feels within his... I haven't heard one that feels out of bounds. Like the Chandler Parsons. Have you heard the Chandler Parsons one? What was that one? The Chandler Parsons that he was on. I forgot what team... Was he on the Grizzlies maybe? um the channel i should just cut to channel parsons telling the story obviously but he uh they were like you gotta guard kobe so he's like very intimidating kobe was like giving him like icy glares the whole game but then eventually he was like are you guys going out like i'll i'll set you up somewhere and kobe sent him he's like yeah and kobe said told him to go to some restaurant and then the bill came and it was like this monstrous bill and chandler parsons i've heard this story.

1:58:38And then he's like, no, Mr. Brian is taking care of it. But Kobe wasn't there. That's why I like the story. It's like, no. See, this is why we need Kobe.

1:58:44Bill Simmons:So maybe it's a podcast. Kobe Detector. There's a Kobe story. And the host is just like, all right, time for a deep dive. It's a little like Pablo's podcast. I just love every story. Just every story I like. I have one more. This is not even... I have one more as well. I have one more. The Savannah Bananas. Yeah, I watched an hour of them. That's how bad the sports content's been this summer. I watched an hour trying to figure it out. It's pretty entertaining. It was like Harlem Globetrotters for baseball. I think that's exactly what I have. Also an argument against parity. It's the best argument for like, you know what?

1:59:24We're going to be awesome. We're going to be so awesome. We'll be doing backflips and catching the ball at the same time. So when anybody wants to start a league, just pick any professional with pickleball. They'll pick one out of the air. And it's like, all right, we're going to have all these teams from all these places. And they're all going to have a real challenge and all like it'll be, everyone thinks it's the NFL model where parity works. No. Have your pickleball league input Pete Sampras and Roger Federer on one team and a bunch of regular guys on the other team and have them crush. That's what, how it works.

2:00:02That's how sports works. Hey, you know what's good? The New York Yankees with Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig, and they won 20-some-odd championships. We like that. Oh, the Celtics. We like that. That's how leagues get started. Dynasties and one team crushing. Not just like, oh, they're all good. Like, hey, who won the Frisbee football championship? So you want a lower class for leagues? No. I just want a normal league, but with a stacked. I'm anti-parody. Me too. I don't want parody. This is really philosophical.

2:00:38Bill Simmons:We grew up with 80s NBA, where it was like there was four teams. So this is my most impassioned. You'll like this. You're a sports Republican.

2:00:52By not allowing, you know, putting a cap on compensation for superstars.

2:00:59Bill Simmons:Yeah. You are not only in the effort to have parity in the league, what you're actually doing is putting a cap on the excellence of the sport. Like, we still haven't seen the best basketball team ever. Like, just... The closest we came in this century was the 2017 Warriors, who achieved it by this complete salary cap fluke combined with Curry's contract, and then that was probably the best team we've seen. Yes. so like and it brought basketball to another level like what's the next level of basketball look like we're not actually going to get a chance to see it because we don't have the best talent playing together yeah so then when you have the olympics like sure but that's kind of like tossed together but like the the best basketball is still like what is the manhattan project of basketball.

2:01:52We're like, here are the 10 greatest basketball players. What does that look like? What are we going to unlock? Like, I'm there. That's what I want to see. But now it's like, no, we take the 10 best players. They're all on separate teams. Everyone gets a bite at the apple. It hurts the sport, the sports potential. It's a very heady, half-baked idea. I don't even know if it's a half-baked idea. What was the idea? I don't know. that you need to have more Savannah Bananas. You need to have like one superstar. My dad used to always tell me about the team. What was it called? The King and His Court.

2:02:32You ever hear about the King and His Court? They're a softball team. We're just four guys. I don't even think they play four on nine or something. I forgot what it was. But we're just so good. I just want to see the best. I just want to see the absolute best. To have the NBA be the best basketball, but not actually because we've dispersed it so far and it doesn't make sense for anybody like you want to see great basketball someone's going to have to be paid 30 million dollars less than they deserve is nuts so i just we're still waiting to see great basketball i don't know how now we're never

2:03:07Bill Simmons:seeing it that's not good big idea is actually just a fully baked ideas let's not have a salary cap in the nba anymore yeah let's see awesome let's go nuts yeah yeah i'm for that like soccer Guess what? It's awesome. All the great players are playing together. Yeah. Yeah, that is true. It's guess what? The whole sport looks different. It looks awesome. Now it's maybe we would, maybe we'd break free from, you know, layups and threes. If you put great players on the team and they figured out something brand new, I'm viewing it like a AI experiment. I don't know if that one got off the tracks. That one sideways, but I enjoyed it.

2:03:45Bill Simmons:Okay. I was the most excited for this one. Is this your Michael Parsons one? Yeah. Okay, here we go. So the Michael Parsons things happen, and obviously you had to do probably 100 segments on it. Several, yes. Because there was nothing going on. We're all over it. It was interesting. All the ex-players who are on these shows, it goes to them like, yeah, pay him. Yeah, pay him. He's Michael Parsons. You got to pay him. Yeah. And that was kind of the ex-player take across the board. And I was thinking, like, you know how they have cameo where the celebrities, you can be like, It's Kevin Wilds' birthday.

2:04:20Bill Simmons:And Steven Seagal sent Kevin Wilds a birthday message. Hey, Kevin, it's Steven Seagal. Love your stuff. This is like cameo, but it's with actual daily talk shows. So like first things first. Yeah. For like$1 ,000, I'm working in like a hardware store and the assistant manager wants a raise and they won't give him a raise. And the assistant manager goes to first things first cameo and he's like can you guys do a segment about how i've been here for three years we had all the arguments and you'd be like hey bob's been there three years the store's up 20 you gotta pay him and you guys just go around and then you guys just you do pay him for all these people around the world and then there's one tenured professors at like you know middlebury college love it we do a lot of research for it and we're like ready to go and you're like passionately talking about how they should pay him.

2:05:17Bill Simmons:And then they sent, they sends a video to his boss. It was like, I don't know if you saw this, but Kevin Wilds and Nick Wright and Broussard, we're talking about how I should be paid. Also, there's one person that has to like be the sacrificial lamb. Oh, the Zach. I don't know. I wouldn't pay him. I wouldn't pay. And he just gets crushed. I don't know. If you look at the NESCAC schools, professors, that data is outdated. You're like, what? what the heck like you just get crushed like oh man i now you put it that way so it has a little bit of an arc to it oh that's smart actually you know that trump with the not letting international students in tuitions down there's less money for the school we can't have tenure and he was like no stop it that's bullshit the guy's doing a good job you should get more money you gotta pay him and we just simulate that with all walks of uh all walks of american workforce take that's a great take.

2:06:12That's a nice auxiliary piece of me. The challenge here, and this is why I like it, because it's half-baked. Yeah. How do you get the shows to actually do this? No, no. Couldn't do it on our free time. The person who, it's a real gamble for them, because they already need more money, right? They're already underpaid. Then they're going to have to pay us to do it. Right. So it's not super lucrative. Actually, I hate to say it, there's probably more money in the not paying. They're like, look, we got to give this guy a $50 ,000 bump. We pay you guys five grand for a segment. Caught him down. It's like a commission.

2:06:46Yeah.

2:06:47Bill Simmons:And I'm like, oh, gosh, darn it. Maybe this is where AI is going, where we could just AI the pay him thing. What's the scenario where the ex-players wouldn't want the guy to get paid? Has that happened yet? I guess maybe Bradley Beal? No trade cost for Bradley Beal? You don't want to run into the same guy at the restaurant. Why did you just try to convince people not to pay me$20 million. Like, sorry, we just needed to do content that day. Sorry, I needed a zag. Let me buy you a bottle of wine. Like, no. All right. Have picked ideas. We've done it again. That was great. You stayed up late on Sunday night for me.

2:07:29Bill Simmons:I appreciate it. We talked about friendship, restaurants, sports, golf, all over the place. All right. Wow. It's good to see you. We can see you on First Things First. Five years. Yeah, let me know. Give me no notice at all and just come on over. I'll be here. I'll see you in 2030. All right, thanks Wilds. All right, see you. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Sheil and Wilds. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well. I have another podcast coming probably Thursday. It's going to be a good one. And then I have Rewatchables, Monday Night Rollerball, 50th anniversary of the second great sports movie that we've had in the last 50 years, The first one's Longest Yard, 1974.

2:08:12Bill Simmons:Rollerball, 1975. And then we're off. We have a nice little sports movie boom. So Brian Koppelman and I, we covered everything. Really, really, really, really kooky podcast. So I highly recommend it. That is coming. And I will see you later in the week on this pod.

2:08:40Bill Simmons:Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts. or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work?

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