A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

34:20This is who I've been for six months. I mean, does that make sense to you that, yeah, we could talk tactics and all that stuff when you're down 20 like that um you know i don't even know i don't know if we'll see that zone again but it was i thought they were trying everything in game two and it was just a mess i agree um the biggest thing i noticed other than the zone was that rando was getting the ball in the right spots without okc doing the thing where it just felt like he was getting smothered every time he had the ball and this is the part i don't understand with OKC because we saw in the Denver series too.

34:53There were games where it felt like Jokic was doing every single thing he wanted from all the spots on the floor he wanted to do it. And then there were other games that just felt like he was in a tsunami. And if OKC's not playing with that tsunami defense, at least for Randall, it's great. And I just felt like he was physical and impactful in a way that in game two it was like, is he going to be playable anymore? He's just had three awful halves. He was really good in the first half of game one and then just disappeared after that. So they unlocked him. They were able to at least survive with Gobert out there, which in fact, that felt iffy in the first, especially in the second game.

35:29Isn't Gobert crazy? Because it's like certain nights you just go, oh, thank God he's out there. You know, he's deterring some of these drives. And other times you just go like, and I think you've seen that from Finch throughout the playoffs. I mean, even going back to the Lakers series, there'll be these stretches. And I think that's kind of what playoff basketball is, is that the same thing can look like a completely different product 48 hours later but rudy has has had moments where it's like thank god for rudy and then other times you're like all right finch is gonna get him out of there then he had one possession where i i saw like he tried to go small and then he was i think it was game two and finch is just so frustrated i think he put rudy right back in the game because he was like all right whatever like i it was like such a bad defensive possession do you do you have anything like is there any part of you with okc as we looked at this final four being like, this is their title to lose.

36:21Is there any resetting for you at all with that kind of result in game three? I'm going to answer that question after the break. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. We all have our routines during the playoffs. I'm the same man who once wore the same t-shirt every single day during the 2003 baseball playoffs. I am the same person who will tell my wife to come into the room when I need a team to win because she's good luck during the NBA playoffs. These are things that happen. Well, Michelob Ultra, a great addition to any game time routine. It is a superior late beer. It's really great.

36:56And they're getting fans closer to the game with exclusive prizes, including courtside seats to see your favorite team play, signed memorabilia, lots more. Enter for your chance to win at MichelobUltra.com slash courtside. McLobe Ultra Superior Access Courtside 2024 to 2025. Sweepstakes, no purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21 or older. Ends on July 1st, 2025. Multiple entry periods. Visit McLobeUltra.com slash Superior Access slash Courtside for free entry, entry deadlines and official rules. Message and data rates may apply. Void, we're prohibited. All right, so you asked me if I feel any differently about OKC after game three.

37:44I left game two thinking that they were not going to lose another playoff game and that they had gone up a level defensively. And they were just going to go on one of those runs like the 91 Bulls did. There's some great young teams over the years that just as the playoffs went along, they started going up levels and just waxing everybody. I think the 0-1 Lakers were like this, Tim. And they basically only lost one game in overtime to Philly. But teams that just got better as the playoffs go along. And I thought that's what we were watching with OKC. I don't get surprised very much. I know game three, it's always a zag.

38:18It's always the desperation thing. The line was only OKC minus two, which I was talking with Raheem and JJ and House and Sal about the line. And just like, this might be our last chance ever to have OKC at a spread that that's low. And finally, it went up to three. And then they just sucked and they seemed young. And I was surprised by it because I figured they would know that Minnesota was going to come out like they did. I thought Ant was good in game two. If you look back at the pace that he had and how he played and the decisions he made, it was really good. There was some good stuff about that the next day.

38:54But I was just surprised. They seemed young. And one of the things that stood out yesterday was Gobert just seemed big in some spots in a way that I just didn't feel in the first two games. I felt like physically they overpowered OKC a little bit. Ultimately, I don't think OKC loses again. I would still bet on, I think this is now five instead of four. In Minnesota, at least showed they had a little unreserved, but I still think OKC is just, I know they can crank up that defense. For whatever reason, when they fall behind 15, something happens to them psychologically. I don't think they're a very good come from behind team.

39:28They did it once against Memphis in that John Morant game when he got hurt. But in general, I just think they're built to have a lead and protect it. It's almost like those NFL teams that they just need to go up 10 and then their defense can finish the game. I think that's who they are. Well, I think some of the three-point shooting numbers that we talked about would be part of that. I mean, when they were having some of those bad closes against Denver and then that entire storyline shifted when Denver looked like the disastrous team late and then they win game six with having the Strother game.

40:01Sometimes you're like, okay, so OKC only played 24 clutch games. Does that mean that they're less comfortable in clutch games and all this other stuff? And you're like, I don't know. If they played in seven more clutch games, then they would be – I mean, it just sounds good because you have something to point to and say, hey, nobody's played in less clutch games. But over a quarter of their games were still technically clutch games in the regular season. It's not like they played four of them out of 82. So I think it sounded really good. It was hard for me to buy it. And then guess what happened?

40:30The better team ended up figuring it out. The team with the MVP figures it out. And you expect the shooting variance at some point to kick in here. But if you're trying to figure out, like, how do you get your ass kicked that bad? Maybe part of it is like Minnesota, I think, is good. You know, I'm surprised that at least one of those games in OKC wasn't a down to the wire game. I mean, we could sit here and look at... It felt like game two was heading that way and they just couldn't land the plane on it. And they let a couple... That's what's crazy about this OKC team. They have these 10-0 runs and all of a sudden you're like, fuck, we're down 12?

41:06What happened? you know especially with their defense at home and it might be one of those things okc might just be an awesome home playoff team right and they're gonna have home court and maybe they're just gonna be one of those teams where old school like the splits at home versus them on the road is a little different um i uh i think there's one way minnesota hanks and I think you would agree with this. Edwards was, I thought, really good in game two, even though his team wasn't. And I thought he was really good yesterday. And maybe that's the roadmap for them. I thought he was patient. I really felt like he was trying to solve what they were doing.

41:53They were throwing all kinds of dudes at him and he was handling it. And I just was really impressed. I thought it was a sophisticated game. whereas compared to last year in the Dallas series where I thought he kind of unraveled a little bit the more Dallas threw at him I thought he had trouble handling it and those last two games I didn't so that would be the case if you're excited about Minnesota's like hey Ant might be something might be happening here but it only happens when the other guys are making shots and we have Naz missed 17 straight threes, DiVincenzo who you know I don't always love every coach after a game being like I like their looks right I've yet to ever hear a coach I don't know if I've heard a coach i mean it's probably been said at some point like you know we didn't have a lot of good ones tonight didn't love our looks yeah divincenzo who i would agree with finch like i've liked so many of his looks he's going to be better than 518 granted he hit two in game three but he only took three i mean granted some of the overall stats again from game three i don't even know necessarily what they'll mean because you're down 20 30 minutes after you're tying your shoes if you're on the thunder side of things but none of the ant stuff works unless these guys are making shots and for the first two games it was pretty abysmal minnesota was under 30 and then i think the other part is kind of the randall it's getting close to midnight conversation of if you look at who he was in those first two series and you go on any metric you want to look at and who he has been throughout his career in the playoffs and like it just ends up being part of the national broadcast i know they have access to these guys and it's like you know people doubted this guy I'd be like, well, no shit.

43:27We doubted him in the playoffs. Like, give me the evidence that told me I was supposed to be psyched about it. And he played great. And his matchups, you know, he was like, when he got LeBron on him, seeing it live and seeing it on TV, he was like, let's go. It was shocking. You know, Draymond, very honest, which is sometimes, like, surprising. And he talked about how much Siakam had eaten him up and how much Randle, you know it taken him out in his matchup but granted i think draymond in that series against minnesota was tasked with doing a ton of stuff so i don't look at like i don't look at draymond's defensive runs in the playoffs against houston in minnesota and i'm not sitting here upset because i think he was asked to do a ton of stuff and for the most part battle but you look at it and you're like holy like do you realize like how special randall has been through these 10 games and it's like okay well now you get okc and it's not just the primary defender it's all of that other stuff that's happening and immediately like the start of game one it's like hey this back down turn dribble thing that takes a little while for you to set up so randall not being that secondary on ball creator and getting benched in game two which is all you need to know like hey i wonder how they feel about him well he played 32 of the first 36 minutes and now he's not going to play any of the fourth quarter um they had it to 103 90 and that was social clip but he was telling his family to leave with like six minutes left in game two i thought that was weird It was like Finch told him, we're going to make a run without you.

44:56Don't get mad. I need you for game three. It looked weird. I'll admit my first instinct now in any social clip is that I don't believe that is the thing that's being told me. I think, by the way, that's a great first instinct. When you get the press conference clips where they're just like doctoring the audio out of the guy's mouth. And you're like, wait, that guy said that? Right. Then you realize, oh, they did AI with this. I think I fell for one of those once, but I didn't repost or anything. I was like, holy shit, Harbaugh's like letting him. I know Harbaugh. And I was like, oh. I was like, I don't think he'd say bitches, though.

45:30Yeah, I saw that clip. I mean, if that's what it ended up being, he handled it the right way. And I also think there's a part of this, too, with OKC. It's incredibly frustrating. And that first game was frustrating. I mean, SGA has seven free throws at the seven-something mark of the first quarter. and you know when Jaden chucked him during game two I kind of liked it like people just could pile that in to be like oh they're breaking at the seams the Timberwolves are just so frustrated. I did kind of like it I loved it and he's like fuck this guy because he hit him first. That's like the playoffs we grew up with.

46:03Yeah and then it kind of gets packages like oh this shows that Minnesota's breaking I'm just like nah I think he's just pissed and he's sick of this guy and by the way that's not SGA's free throws to me are not necessarily even the story the outcome of the first two games here Um, but it wasn't the free throws. It was, it was the calls he was getting when he banged in other bodies that didn't resemble everything else that was being officiated in the entire playoffs. He was doing it. He would be side to side with somebody and he put his arm out and the, and McDaniels had a couple fouls where he's just like, what the fuck am I supposed to do?

46:39Am I, should I run backwards? When he fell down and they fall down when he fell down and they challenged it and the official was like pissed at alexander walker for being like you've got like alexander walker was like unhinged because he knew yeah he's like he just fell down and then the ref kind of looked at him and like a ref when they get and i can't imagine being a ref and having guys yell at you for two and a half hours like eventually you get sort of defensive and you know all these guys that testosterone is flying around the official gave it this like look like hey you know you fouled him and it's on him and it's like a little extra emphasis on what he's doing back to the score state when you see the review and you're like yeah he just fell down that's why those guys were all losing their minds so they definitely got way too caught up in all that stuff i think minnesota's a good team i wasn't going to pick them in this series i thought the odds were a little crazy then the odds looked like they might have been too low with the way the thunder control those third quarters the stuff that the thunder can go to here but you know there's a randall piece and the three-point piece that makes ants night like it's predetermined if randall can't Yeah, if you're going to get 20 for 40 from three and Randall's going to play well and Ant's making good decisions, they're a really good team.

47:45There you go. With that said, Caruso, nine minutes. Didn't he get a bunch of fouls, though? Yeah. I'm just... He was minus 16 when he was out there and it was the first bad Caruso game in a while. Wallace only played 15 and he was minus 30 in the 15. I don't even know. Do these numbers matter, though? Yeah, I'm just, I'm trying to figure out, like, to me, defense is going to be their identity in this series. And my guess is they're going to try to come back and be like, dude, we got here on defense. Let's play some defense again. When Caruso goes out, there's like, give me Randall. That guy's not doing that again.

48:26He takes him. They'll throw dudes at Edwards. Just try to make him give up the ball. And they're going to see if Minnesota can go 20 for 40 from three again. Would be the strategy. I still like OKC in five. Yeah, look, the Caruso foul game was game two. I just don't know what any of the stats will mean from any of the guys. And then they were talking about it because I was watching the broadcast a little bit with game three with Ruko, Legs, and our guy, Kirk Goldsberry. Yeah, I watched some of that too. It was delayed by two seconds. So I like to get as live as possible. So I ended up going back.

49:07the two seconds Legs is having a big year big legs year he's been great can you give me an actor equivalent of like 20 years later it's like man we appreciate this guy yeah maybe it's kind of the surroundings yeah because if you're in a neighborhood where you have one of like many good restaurants in the neighborhood and then you're one of the only ones left and it's like man the food this place is great Might be one of those. I think he's great. I'm trying to do a Travolta here for you. Travolta's peaks were higher than earlier's legs peaks. So Travolta just went away. The Travolta comeback cannot be compared.

49:50He was literally six feet under in the ground and came back. But he had these peaks. I don't think there's a Saturday Night Fever for legs. What I'm trying to think of is the actor who has been around forever. And then later on, I mean, you can't even do... It's like a Liam Neeson. Yeah, but... I don't, I don't know. I don't know about that. Tommy Lee Jones? No Country for Old Men? Is it No Country for Old Men for Legs? It might be. Because he was around, but I mean, I think it felt like he was having a bit of a comeback with The Fugitive. Right. And then he had that run in the 90s, then it dipped again, then it came back.

50:29Where he played the same character for a decade. Legs is doing great. That might be it. No Country for Old Men. It's like you can build the whole thing around this guy did you not realize this he's been here the whole time yeah he's fucking awesome give him a giant monologue at the end he's gonna crush it um i was thinking i don't know whether i would call this the sea change season or the something's different season i mentioned this to you last week and i was going through seasons that just feel like something has shifted it was back to your pacers point right because if this is real if this is normal this is the way you want to build your team.

51:03This goes against anything we've ever accepted. We've gone from, it's better to have nine than three. That's pretty weird. But think all the things that happened this season. LeBron and Curry feels like those eras are over as like, if this is the best guy on your team, that doesn't mean you're even going to make the finals. Tatum goes down in the Boston thing, which goes from 2016 to this year, now feels like it's in flux. The Luka trade, which was the biggest trade in the history of the league. Like Cooper flag to Dallas and OKC has arrived. And San Antonio feels like they're reloading. And it just feels like the seesaw just went like this.

51:41The last time I was looking through all the seasons, trying to think when I felt like that with the season. 2016, when Cleveland beat Golden State, Golden State had beaten OKC. And then the weird salary cap thing and Durant just went to the Warriors. And we're like, oh, it just felt like a shift. and for those listening bill did a thing where his balance i did a thing with my arm i did a i did a fake human seesaw imagine a plane and its wings dipping a bit 2010 11 season right after the decision in miami and the lockout was coming and it felt like the celtics and lakers had kind of run their course we were in the tail end of kobe and gasol that felt like that was not going to the best place kg pierce ray that felt like that might be getting creaky.

52:32OKC was coming with Durant and those guys. And we had all those awesome drafts in a row in 07, 08, 09, where just all these young players are coming to the league. And it was like, I don't know what's happening, but something's happening. And by the way, we may not have basketball season next year. So it was just like, we're on edge. And then the only other one I can think of was after MJ's, he wins his last title, and we immediately go into the lockout. and Kobe and Duncan are coming and the league's about to shift that way and it seems like it's going to be Kobe, Duncan, Grand Hill. MJ's gone.

53:07We have this lockout. The salaries are super weird. They're trying to get rid of these three-year contracts for you get in the league three years then you can sign for$100 million and it just felt like everything was fucked up. Those were the seasons in the last 25 plus years that you could just tell something had changed And I think this season feels like that. So I wanted your take. I would put it in that class. If the Pacers win this whole thing. Well, that's like. Right. Yeah. Then we're getting canned goods. Even if they make the finals, I think it feels that way. We get an Indiana OKC finals.

53:45It's fucking crazy. But what will happen is everyone will agree with you and say that this now is different. And as I've said this entire time, like I would need to have this happen. And this would have to be the new normal for me to accept that this is the shift and that the league has changed. I feel like we're already here, though, for this reason. Did you see that there was a graphic about the 25 most followed Instagram accounts? Yes. In the NBA, which includes people like both Ball Brothers and Ben Simmons. But it was like the NBA players with the most Instagram followers. And none of the four teams left had a guy in the top 25.

54:21I was like, that feels like something. Well, Bridges posts. suck. I'm just kidding. Too much Tommy. Um, now it just, it just feels like, I think you add everything up combined with where we're going with this lottery and it just feels like something. And then the second apron thing, I didn't even mention that part and just where we're going financially. I don't even, I don't like you add all that together and say, I don't know what this, what's going to happen with this league. I still will refuse to believe that the outcome of this league will be dictated by players outside of the top 10 consistently.

55:02I forgot to mention the media rights deal. We have new partners. We have the inside of the NBA. What does that have to do with the results? Just the flux of this year. Like feeling like we're ending something and heading towards something. And there's also a study that says icebergs have gotten bigger for the first time. Global warming? Is maybe over? In the salary cap? I don't know that I believe that it's over, but there's new data built. You're not with me, it doesn't sound like. Plus Cooper flag coming? Well, hey, if you want to hit me with all of the guys that are the marquee names, and they're all kind of heading towards the end of this whole thing, yeah, you're right.

55:43Luka on the Lakers? I mean, if you're asking me, like, hey, new teams are going to start winning, it's like, well, no shit. Like sports are so much. But sometimes it doesn't always happen though. Well, like we're going to have Utah tanking, I guess, for the rest of the decade. And still, God only knows what's going to happen with them. Look at Charlotte. Look at Washington. You know, it's. And then you go on the other side. By the way, did you know Brooklyn has four first-round picks? For some reason, I didn't realize that until I was studying the draft and all the draft picks. Yeah, I did. Brooklyn's in a really interesting spot.

56:17I saw some bad like, hey, package all four like it's the NFL draft. That is one of the biggest disconnects of all time. If you were in the NFL and you say, I'll give you 12, 17, and 20, who knows? You might be able to get it up to the top five. The NBA, when it's like, we don't want 20, 21, and 27, that's not going to get you. Even though, obviously, Brooklyn's first pick is a lot higher than I've mentioned. But even in the NBA, if you're sitting there with eight and two other firsts, it's like, hey, can we get to four? No. In the NFL, you could. The NBA. 8, 19, 26, and 27. How high could you move up with those four?

56:54Could you get to fourth? Would Charlotte do that? I don't think you could get to fourth. You don't think Charlotte does it? You think Charlotte wants four more rookies? No. No one wants four more rookies, by the way. The only team I was thinking about that could potentially get excited is Daryl because he would just have all these picks. It would be like his Super Bowl. He'd be like, I'm going to build an entire bench right now for my guy Joel Embiid. But even the most confident GM isn't going to assume that he's going to hit on all four first round picks. And then there are going to be rotational pieces for a team that when Philly's healthy has Eastern Conference finals aspirations, championship aspirations.

57:39It's funny. How often do you look through when we think about all these teams that are loaded with all their picks and then you actually look at the picks? you know okc is one of those that i thought okc was just like holy shit they have so many awesome picks and now you go through it and i'm not sure they're that awesome but they have two denver top five protected picks down the road i assume yokich is still going to be there they have that dallas swap in 28 but now they have cooper flag they have clipper stuff in 26 and 27 swaps and and this year but the Clippers seem like they're going to be at least pretty functional for the next two years.

58:20And then they have the Philly 26 first, top six protected, top four protected the next year. And Philly seems like they've reloaded. They have the Utah top eight, right, in 26? Top eight, right. Did you just say that, sorry? No, no, I didn't say that one, but I almost assume Utah is going to throw next year. So they don't really have like a genuinely juicy pick, whereas, you know, like Houston has Phoenix's 27 first, you know, and they have the ability to choose between Phoenix or Dallas's first and 29. Like those are picks where you're like, oh, fuck. Those are some winners. Brooklyn has a couple of good ones too.

59:07But again, it's like Brooklyn can swap with Houston in 27. What does that do for you? Houston's going to be really good. So sometimes when these teams put together all these picks, Utah's interesting because they still have a bunch of those Minnesota and Cleveland picks left. But ironically, the best pick they have is that sneaky trade they made near the deadline, that weird trade Phoenix made where they gave up the three firsts for their 2031 first, which Utah now has. if they're 2031 first, who the fuck's going to be in Phoenix in six years? You know, that could end up being... Yeah, it might be both of us.

59:47The other one, there's some other weird trades that I just forgot. Three of us just hanging out. Well, Washington got Memphis' first-round pick this year because they took Marcus Smart to go back to our Marcus Smart trade. He went from, I'm worth Chris Stapps, Porzingis, and two first, basically, to you have to trade her first to get rid of me to go to my next team. That's pretty dramatic.

1:00:14Anyway, there was a reason I brought all this up. Oh, because we were talking about how fast things can flip for who we think is looking good. Who knows? You'd think Utah, if there's somebody that's available, but the agent says, yeah, my guy will stay there. because the idea of Utah taking another rookie guard, I mean, unless the evaluation, they just look at him and go, hey, he's better than everybody we already have. And this was an upset and he shouldn't have been here. You know, maybe it's just because I think Edgecombe should be in the conversation with the other two Rutgers guys. I knew you were going to be in this corner.

1:00:51I've been waiting for it. I need to do more work, but I am a little surprised that after the combine, whether during the combine or after it's like okay well clearly we know who number one is and then it's harper and then it's everybody else and i'm like yeah i don't know because i as i said two weeks ago i'm um even though all indications is sania santona just taking harper i don't know edgecombe seems like a there i know they already have castle like it would be weird to have both of them, I guess, but I don't know. And Harper's shooting is better than his numbers. The reason his three-point shooting percentage is way lower than you would want is because he takes some terrible shots, which a lot of really big-time, high-profile high school guys come in being like, you know, I've got to take these to show that I'll take them.

1:01:47So Harper, I think, is going to be a better shooter than the numbers prove out and he does so many really good things like running the high pick and roll that you see all the time and all this stuff and like you know castles had a really nice year and he certainly seems to have the mentality of like you would think he's going to attack this as a competitor that he's going to care you know that he's going to love basketball he's going to be frustrated in those moments where he feels like he's not good enough like it was just everything you know we're always trying to guess with any of these guys but i don't feel like i see the same separation between harper and edgecomb that the draft conversation seems to be at right now um so i'm trying to remember when was the last time that's happened where when in like april may we were like oh no here's gonna be the top four and then something shifted as we got to mid-may june oh no yeah tatum was tatum was like consensus mock third.

1:02:43I just thought at the time, the more you watch... I think Tatum's the right example, though. Yeah, but everybody knew it was going to be... Fultz is going first. Right. And everybody knew Lonzo was going to the Lakers, so at least that was a little bit more accepted. Ace Bailey, if he was better, is your number two guy. Isn't it more likely that he could drop versus go up? When I found out he was 6 '7.5 and not 6 '10, I thought that was a complete game changer. Okay, but remember... we're going off and I hate the league did this and I'm probably one of the few people that even cares about this but shoes the no shoes thing like Harper's listed at six six and he measures six four and a half of those shoes so now it's presented as this huge disappointment or like what the hell's going on with these college programs like I think one year in lacrosse one of my roommates just like they were like hey what are you and he was like six four two thirty and he I didn't even think he was six feet yeah and they just let him do it um so that's been going on in college for for years and years I mean it's probably a little bit tighter when you're one of the top players in the high school circuit and then you end up you know at a d1 program but Harper is listed at 6 '6 and then he's 6 '4 and a half and so it's the same thing with ace it's like oh I thought this guy was 6 '10 6 '10 from 6 '7 and a half is a little bit different but But it frustrates me because then you just, I mean, I know the simple thing is like, well, hey, now they're just not in shoes.

1:04:09So factor that in. But then it gets relayed as if all these guys are just across the board comically shorter than all their listed heights. But it's because - Like Flag was another one. Yeah. Well, it's because they used to let them up until very recently. The official measurement was the measurement in shoes. So all of your - I think we need, this is where we need a sports star to really decide one way or the other with the measurements. Are we going shoes or no shoes? It's like when we talk about NFL season. So are we saying that the 2001 Pats or the 2002 Pats that won the Super Bowl? Is it the year the Super Bowl was played or the year we had the regular season?

1:04:41There's just some things we haven't figured out as a country. Well, maybe they were just like... We need some stability. Maybe it's a lot like the tariffs, Bill. It's like we need... You're going to have to take your medicine. Yeah. Okay. But trust us on this one. Not a statement, not a position. Just obviously the rationale behind it. And maybe the NBA is looking the same way. and be like, well, he's going to just start tariffing everybody. Maybe we can start tariffing height. I think it would be most likely Ace Bailey falls out of the top three than stays in the top three. And I still have Edgecone, I think, climbing.

1:05:18Let's take a break. I want to talk about Halliburton. All right, Tyrese Halliburton. We're taping this before game three. So he might go one for 15 tonight with 12 turnovers. I was thinking. They don't turn the ball over a lot. That's true. That's for sure. I was thinking he's the best what-if guy of this decade, considering all the teams and all the fan bases that can look at him and go. Even Golden State, and there was no way Golden State was taking him at two during the COVID draft, which the COVID draft we'll be doing documentaries about because we had no March Madness and nobody could really work out and just doing Zoom interviews.

1:05:55Golden State knows Halliburton is absolutely perfect for them. and there's not quite enough of a resume to take a guy who's probably in the seven to nine range at number two. It would have been really ballsy, but you would have had to absolutely love the guy. And they did try to trade back from what I heard, but nobody wanted to trade back because it was the COVID draft, nobody. But here's a guy who I would assume, Curry is the perfect Steve Kerpler, but Hal Burton's probably a close second for how he sees the floor and how he loves the unconstructed chaos. So you have them. You have Detroit taking Killian Hayes over him.

1:06:29You have the Knicks. Now, this is a what if in both directions because they take Toppin over him, but it also leads to Brunson and all the good stuff that happens. So you're probably fine with how it worked out if you're a Knicks fan. Washington passes on him and takes our guy, Abdiah. Phoenix was the most indefensible, and we said this in the moment, because they actually needed, you know, to think long-term Halbert and Booker together. They take Jalen Smith, who they waive after two years. and then San Antonio passes on him. So you have all those teams before we get to Sacramento number 12. Then you have, this is my favorite one of all of these.

1:07:04Philly could have traded Ben Simmons for him. It was the Halbert and Heald trade. And I've argued with people about this for two years. It was like, I was never on the table. That was never the trade. It was like, well, they traded Sabonis for Halbert and Heald. And they were offering Sabonis for Ben Simmons. So you can't say like, oh, this couldn't have happened. But I just feel like if Sacramento wanted Ben Simmons, which I think they did because there are stories about it, could that have been Halberd and then he'll? Then I just don't think Philly thought he was a big enough star. So you have that.

1:07:38And then you have the Sacramento piece. Sacramento had him for 109 games, Rosillo. They had him for a year and two thirds. And they were like, Fox and Halberd, I don't know. This doesn't work. They weren't going anywhere. They had a chance to trade for Sabonis, which made sense at the time. It worked out. They made, you know, they won a playoff. They got to the playoffs. They did all the stuff they did.

1:08:04But end up trading them. So that is one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight teams that are like, oh, fuck. We literally could have had that guy. And now he's in Indiana and he's not going anywhere. I don't remember another player like that. I would have to go back to like the 1990s when Jason Kidd got traded twice and felt like he was available for a while there on Dallas in the mid-90s when that team wasn't working out. But for somebody as talented as Halliburton to just kind of be available, both in the draft and as trade bait, it's pretty unusual. The Dallas thing is good, but I remember just having Mashburn around, who just was one of my favorites back in the day, the early ESPN stuff.

1:08:46And you'd be like, you know, and he was like, it was that bad. Like, it was just that bad. Yeah. and so you know when you're with it every single day it's easy for us to be like how could you ever be in the business of wanting to move off from jason kid but then again you know of his own doing it led to another transaction later on for him so i was just talking about kid i think with raja the other day and you know his highlights hold up in a way where i like watch the highlights and i fear we're never going to see anything like it you know i go are we ever going to be like this lucky to see a player that could see the game this way and you knew when you were watching it even back when he was playing in college you're like dude this there's something like incredibly special about this guy again he has this awesome career in the whole thing i don't know that we're putting haliburton on that level um but i i like what you're doing because you're trying to figure out like why would you have moved on from i think the funniest thing about the sabonis haliburton deal is that it happens it's like how do you do you can't no one ever does a deal like this no one ever takes a lottery pick and then moves on from him this quickly especially when it looks like you got it right with the pick and you can't believe he fell to where he fell and really fun trade when it happened right but then it it's like oh here we go again with sacramento and then sabonis makes all nba two seasons and it's kind of 48 games yeah you look at and you also look at like sabonis's career stuff this year everybody's like no thanks you know right because the numbers are still really really good but it's pretty clear like when he's your center there are just limitations on what you can do but sacramento to even have that that high seed a few years ago you're like how can you get on their case when they took a surplus and added a need and it's work and it's worked for a team that doesn't really get to sniff in this area but But now we get to, like, we re-litigate this trade so much that I think it just proves, once again, you can't ever give up on lottery talents you think have worked, even if you think it's redundant.

1:10:51Well. But. Or maybe you could make a, they traded the wrong guy case too. Well, yeah. Which is a different argument. Did you think at the time, it's like, hey, trade Fox? because De 'Aaron felt like he, you know, of all the things that I prioritize and I've talked about it, but like, can you get your own when it matters? And De 'Aaron's that guy. It's always felt like he's more that guy than Halliburton is. The case for trading him was that the money was kicking in with him faster. So you had the Halliburton on the rookie deal versus paying more for Fox. But yeah, I mean, it was, I think the Knicks were trying to get Fox there for, they loved him obviously because the Kentucky piece and what kind of godfather they did, but I don't think they ever shot Fox.

1:11:35And I think Halliburton was kind of being dangled just because the Fox-Halliburton thing didn't work, which in retrospect is kind of crazy. I actually think when you think about where the league's gone the last few years, they actually could have built their own version of what Indiana has around two guards who had the ball at the time and were attacking. I think the other piece though, it's so funny, Rick Carlisle felt like he got old in Dallas in a lot of ways. Right. And then they finally moved on for him. Where how inventive he was for a lot of his career, but it just felt like maybe the league was moving in a different direction or something was happening.

1:12:15But then you watch when he was able to, how he rekindled how everybody felt about him as a coach in Indiana and how, I mean, that stuff they were doing to the Knicks in game two. I was watching the Twitter clips the next day. and some people are putting some good stuff on them. Watch what they do to towns. Yeah, what did you like? Just chaos. You know, they push the pace, so they get a lot of... One of the things, the Celtics... I was watching it more from, I was driving myself crazy about those first two Celtic games, which are moving up the ladder of all time worst losses. Still healing from those first two games.

1:12:50The worst Celtics loss of my lifetime was 2010 Game 7 Finals. Game 422 is up there. I think when you lose a game that actually like where you could have won the title and you didn't win because those have to be the highest. But I think the combo of those two games, it's really up there historically. Like blowing two 20-point games in a row, but part of the reason they blew it and you're watching what Indiana's doing, they're pushing the pace. They're just trying to make Towns stagger around at the top of the key, not having any idea where he should be or using Robinson. There was one awesome play where they were in the same play with McConnell twice in a row on the right side.

1:13:27And the first time Siakam stayed in the corner and Robinson was kind of guarding him, but guarding the rim. And then the second time Siakam snuck up and got this wide open three. If they were using all the shit the Knicks are bad at against them. And it's, it's, he was doing the same stuff last year. Like they really gate, went toe to toe with Boston in that Eastern finals. And that series is way closer than I think it felt. It was the closest sweep I've ever watched. that never felt comfortable in any of the games. But anyway, I just thought, I think he's figured out pace and chaos in a way that's really unusual for a league where everybody wants to know exactly what they're doing.

1:14:09Boston's the worst possible example of that. Let's walk it up. Let's play 1-4. Let's wait till eight seconds. Come set a pick. We're going to hunt this one matchup. And I think the Knicks just got used to it. And they're not, they can't get used to whatever Indiana's doing. I hate talking about this before game three, but that's what I noticed. I just felt like the Knicks were frazzled by Indiana. You know what I mean? I do. You know, look, you can just tell a lot based on like sub patterns too, because in that fourth quarter there, he doesn't go back to cat until it feels like they need his offense because he didn't.

1:14:41I think it was, I mean, I've got it somewhere here, but I mean, he was in at 225 when it was 110-101. So at that point, you figure he's coming in because they got to make up the nine points somehow. and they're willing to give up. I mean, he was subbed out with nine minutes to go. I thought the other great thing was that the Pacers won that start of the fourth quarter because I thought in game one they were losing the game because of how bad they were when Brunson goes out with a foul trouble, and then it's a 10-0 run like that in two minutes. This is supposed to be, I mean, even would be a disappointment because Brunson is out in these minutes right now, and you may have just lost this game with OG getting a couple buckets.

1:15:19So if Tibbs is taking out Cat with nine minutes to go in the fourth quarter and they're not really making up any ground and then he brings him back in at 225, he realizes how much of an issue Cat is. And I think you said something because sometimes it is very straightforward. It's let's get the switch on Cat. Let's see what we have. Let's attack. But for Boston, it was always just that. Right. It was always just that. There's been a couple things, and it even takes me a second time to notice it, where it's like, you think we're switching into the cat hunt here with the ball handler, but what we're really doing is there's this other thing where somebody's crossing underneath it, and that's really what the whole play is because we've shown you this.

1:16:01I know what you're saying. We're really trying to catch Mitchell Robinson asleep. You think we're going after cat, but we're really trying to get Mitchell Robinson to forget that somebody's about to back up behind him. or we're using the first screen. The first screen doesn't really even matter. So Kat's overplaying and he's freaked out, but actually what he has to do is make up ground and follow that his first primary defensive assignment is now actually setting a screen for somebody else. So now you're like, well, shit, I was worried about Halliburton at first, but now I don't know if I'm supposed to take the cutter or stay with my original guy.

1:16:33And so it's just a little bit, again, I don't know how many times this happens, but it's not just, hey, high pick and roll, even though there's plenty of that. I mean, Halliburton, when I was watching game two, I'm kind of like getting frustrated even with Halliburton dancing with Mitchell Robinson for such a long time. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. But you're like, okay, this is a little predictable and it's getting a little late in the shot clock. I could totally understand being a Celtics fan and watching some of this stuff going. It was all right there. And when Cat's not the one to attack, Brunson's the one to attack.

1:17:02And why is that complicated? And why aren't you pushing the ball? That's the other thing. One of the things in the end is doing is that... Indiana has brought back the fast break, which was basketball since the entire time we've started playing it. We got to rebound. Go. Siakam has been killing them on leaking out. And I was very critical of Siakam after the first game because I went, this is kind of who I, like some good numbers and in the playoffs, he hasn't shot it really well from distance the last four years of being in the playoffs. And there's a marginal decline in the playoffs, which isn't the end of the world or anything like that.

1:17:42But he's so big, and you're like, there's no matchup for him out there. There's no matchup for him. Is it as simple as, hey, it's OGs on him, and we know how disastrous that was for any ball handler with the Celtics going at OG. But the fact that they early on were like, we want to get you going, and then he starts hitting everything. And those were really nice shots from Siakam too, that mid-post, back into you, hit you, fade away. But I wouldn't be shocked for New York matching, even though it's on the road. New York matching, you know, again, we don't know what's going to happen here tonight, but do you think there's this massive gap between these two teams?

1:18:15Because I do. I don't. I don't. I'd like to see more bridges. I think it's interesting. And again, we're taping this for game three. I think it's interesting that all those Detroit games were so close and that they were down 14 plus in the first five Knicks games. and that the bigger the sample size gets, they just don't have a lot of games. Like OKC, they sucked in game three. OKC's had a lot of quarters and stretches and even entire games where they've just killed teams. And that's what would worry me the most if I was a Knicks fan. They're not having... Game six against Boston was the only time they killed the team, right?

1:18:56And that was a team that had Porzingis and a borderline coma, no Tatum, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, Bridges has taken 17 shots per game. So maybe we have seen, just every time with him, I feel like he finds a way to get space into a really great look. And nobody can figure out that weird 45-degree angle jump shot he has. He has body control. He bends and nobody blocks it. I don't know what his testing would be on. I don't know if it would show up even in the three cone with him. He had two plays in game two. One was the fast break football outlet to him where he has only a foot to catch it to then get up and still make the layup.

1:19:44And you're thinking, first of all, the pass is great and it hits him, but his feet were going to be wrong. And it was like, I've got to catch this and then get my feet right and then still go up and finish. And it was awesome. And then he had another play where he comes baseline. he turns and it looks like anybody else's body would just like over rotate because if he was trying to like pull a trick on a snowboard yeah and he gets turned and i know there's other players that are athletic enough to do this stuff but he gets turned where you think his body would keep going and then it just kind of stops in midair because he has such great body control so that he's able to get himself squared up and everything and i don't i don't know that look when he's going to the side and those hard dribbles that we saw even in the last round when he would have that that huge fourth quarter moment uh in game two he when he gets all that momentum going with his dribble to one side and then he's pulling up with his length and the way he's leaning you're just not contesting that shot so i know he's taking 17 shots a game here and i'm saying hey more bridges but i i don't like it when he gets through these stretches where it's um you know he's just kind of stuck in the corner i think we saw probably maybe too much said it earlier season yeah it It was shocking to watch what he did to Derek White.

1:20:52I thought he was just able to score on him whenever he wanted, basically. Quick 2020 NBA redraft. Minnesota takes Edwards again. Right? We can pencil that one in. Golden State took Wiseman second. I just think they shouldn't do that again. No, I don't think so. I think Wiseman is no longer the second pick. And I think it's Halliburton. I think they take him and they're delighted by it. And then him and Steph Curry. This is quite an alternate universe. Charlotte had the third pick. They took LaMelo Ball. Tyrese Maxey's still on the table. You think they'd take Tyrese Maxey or LaMelo Ball, the third pick?

1:21:34I think they would still take LaMelo. Really? Interesting. Over Tyrese Maxey. I know who I would prefer, but... Well, let's say we were the conciliaries for the pick. Who would we tell them to take? I would tell them to take Tyrese Baxi.

1:22:00That would be my suggestion. All right, we'll give them the middle of the ball. So Chicago is at four. They took Patrick Williams. I'm not sure they're running that one back. So you think they would take Maxi here? Yeah. All right. So LaMelo, Maxi are three, four in some order here. If Maxi goes three, I mean, you're not going to drop LaMelo. No. I had LaMelo four. I had Maxi three, though. Cleveland's fifth. They took Isaac Okoro. Who'd you have for her? I had somebody written down.

1:22:40Well, you want me to give you the name? No, I think I might take Jaden McDaniels or Bain. at Bain.

1:22:51You'd rather have McDaniels than Bain? Normally, I'd rather have scoring than defense. I like where this is going. I do. I think whatever the end of this season is for Minnesota, it feels like a win on the development part of Jaden McDaniels because he's never going to be the first or second option for this team. Yes, he gets stuck in the corner a lot. he may never really develop into a guy who we can run some stuff for him with the ball in his hands on the other side but whereas like there's some players I go that's never going to happen and it's still like unlikely for Jaden there's a lot I really like about him even though Bain has just been a flamethrower since he stepped in the league Bain would probably be more fun for you to work out with or it'd be super depressing in the gym a lot seems like so he's almost bane is i'm doing an age thing here uh bane is almost 27 yeah and jayden is uh he's two years younger so for the people listening if you don't remember bane ended up going 30 got drafted by the southwicks and then traded and this was one of the reasons the covet draft is so legendary because like just look how we did the first five number one, number 12, number 21, number three, and number 30 were the first five.

1:24:15Atlanta's up next. So it sounds like you would add McDaniels or Bain, whoever's left over in this spot, which I agreed with.

1:24:26Yeah. Well, he went 28th, McDaniels. You know what my biggest criticism of McDaniels is, it has nothing to do with anything about him. I think he gets no respect from the referees, and I don't really understand it. And I've noticed that over and over again, he gets called for touch fouls that I don't feel like any other elite defender gets whistled for, and I don't really fully understand why. But you can kind of feel it too. I remember going to game two of the Lakers, and you're just like, oh, they're just going to foul him out of the game. I can see where this is going. First two OKC games, I felt like the whistle was not fair with them.

1:25:03And then in game three, all of a sudden started getting a good whistle again. All right. So Atlanta, Jaden McDaniels, Detroit took Killing Hayes, number seven. I'm going to say they're not going to do that again. This is either Devin Vassell, Denny Abdi, or Aaron Neesmith were in that range. I think they're one of those three. Who do you have?

1:25:27this is funny because i didn't think i'd spend my sunday memorial day weekend going who says no between denny and vassell it's it's an unexpected joy for you you know people were like you get a lot of this you get a lot of work this weekend i was like yeah kind of like you're gonna have any fun you're gonna have any fun and i was like right when we say goodbye at the end of this pod are you kidding i think the cells the pick but i i'm i'm still kind of holding out like i think denny's gonna be pretty good and maybe is more there's a little bit more to avdia than there is the cell but i think the cells the more proven like hey come in and get buckets and score and give us spacing and and all that kind of stuff where i mean denny's just so aggressive the rebounding.

1:26:15I have Vassell here as well. He went 11th. I have Denny going to the Knicks with the next pick. He went 9th to the Washington Wizards. I can't believe Pritchard's still on the board for years. Oh, yeah. Then I have Neesmith going to Washington. Any arguments? Over a Kongu? Yeah. I'm just watching Aaron Neesmith with flame shooting out of his ass since Nick series. It's a recent sub-bias. Then the next three are Okongwu, Quickly, and Pritchard with Phoenix, San Antonio, and Sacramento all on the clock. Okongwu ended up going sixth to Atlanta, Quickly went 25th, and Pritchard went 26th. So, and Phoenix, as we talked about, famously botched this pick.

1:27:04So I'm going to say Okongwu for them. This is where it gets exciting. i'll admit with the kangaroo i always think he's better no i always think he's better i think they think he's better they finally made the change uh this year and maybe it's just the idea of him or maybe they were i don't know if they're trying to keep the keep his value down a little i i don't i don't know i i kind of like like him me too and basically this feels like property with me and no this island this feels like a make or break a congo season how's that that's totally fair yeah then i have quickly going to san antonio and pritchard going to sacramento and then we don't have to do anymore after that he already has the extension with a super easy number here but he pritchard uh no no no i meant a congo i'm still still on him because he only started 40 games this year but it was very clear after never starting any games.

1:28:06I mean, he did technically start games. It feels like a Kong Wu time is on the horizon down there in Atlanta. Quickly or Pritchard? Can't factor in contracts. No, honestly, with Pritchard, I think he is more adaptable to what you need from him, where if Quickly just doesn't get, you know, 16 shots against the second unit. And look, Quickly was awesome a couple of years ago. Okay. Yeah. But it was very clear. It was like, Hey, it's quickly time. And I think he needs that freedom to be as impactful where Pritchard, Pritchard, man, he, I mean, it's not just the dribble pull-ups. It's not just the dribble drives, which he got really good at.

1:28:50I thought this year, but it's also the catch and shoot. So I think he's a little bit more versatile in how you can use him as an offensive player, where for the most part, it's like quickly just going to go. All right. So we just did a top 12. and the guys where they were actually picked versus how that top 12 went number 1, number 12 21, 3, 30 11, 9, 28, 14 6, 26 and 25 that is fucking nuts and we don't have out of the guys in the top 8 we only have 3 so it just makes you think like when we were going to spend all this time in this draft maybe you're better off with the 13th pick than this fifth like who the it's such a crapshoot every year and we always forget it which is why i think the redrafts are always kind of interesting to redo this one is a crazy one though because of covid um this was not considered a great draft by the way also city bay's healthy who knows you know maybe he's in the conversation uh but you're right like i i'm shocked because i do it usually around this time every year and I probably have a segment would be a slow opening monologue night before, but the number of guys that are in the top 10 and how rare it is now, like for that person to be on the team that drafted them.

1:30:14And I mean the team that actually like has them, not the draft rights thing, which can make it even more confusing. How many of those guys get to their fourth year? I think one stretch I did it over like a five-year stretch and it was, it was less than 50 % of the guys in the top 10. Cause we knew that was always my point of like, Like, you know, oh, cool. I'm trading picks in the 20s all the time. Like, who gives a shit? And history still tells you, like, there's a significant drop off. And when you're grabbing a rotational guy that's going to make it to his second contract somewhere in the 20s, that's a massive win.

1:30:45Also speaks to your boy Ainge, too. Because you start going through this Ainge draft where it felt like Boston had a move. He spent them Richard, Rob Williams. Yeah, he was nailing them. I mean, he's had some really good picks that, like, hey, that guy's going to play like 10 years. So, yeah. So as I talked about the 20 stuff, which we've talked about for a really long time, teams were on this for a long time. I always felt like those picks were just a little overrated, but it sounded really cool to be like, hey, this expiring bet or whatever. And like, you know, it depends if he's expiring and you're getting something.

1:31:15So I'm not criticizing that transaction. But then it's like, OK, so that means all the top 10 picks are really valuable. And then you look at those and you go, my God. But yeah, this is where the stars are. So that means a chance at one of them is valuable. But the return on even the guys in the top 10, you'd be shocked. And I'll do it again this year. But you'd be shocked how many times the guy is not even on the team in the fourth year of the rookie contract. Also crazy how many times an awesome player falls into the 12 to 17 range. Because it happened in that 21 draft too, right? Sengun and Trey Murphy fell to 16 and 17.

1:31:52Halliburton fell to 12. Where did Booker go? Like 13? 12, maybe. I don't know. Yeah, somewhere like in the 12, 13 range. Something like that. Yeah, well, the problem for him was that team in Kentucky was loaded. So, yeah, 13th pick, recall. There's always one guy in that range that nails it. All right, before we go, because we're going to go enjoy Memorial Day, I asked you to give me one absolutely crazy prediction for the summer that deep down you don't think is that crazy.

1:32:26Nets run it back with Kyrie.

1:32:32All right, make the case. Let's hear it. Josiah, all is forgiven. That's not it. You gave me this like one minute before I jumped into the Zoom. Yeah, it was like 20. There's not one... it could be like a Jalen Brown ends up in Houston kind of level. I think there's going to be three major name transactions. I do. Cause I think one will go. And then the other teams that we're working on at all, if Cesar are going to feel left out. And I'd imagine one of those top five picks move, which I think is, yeah, but it also could be maybe Utah just says we have to do something. Like we have to figure out a way to package this unless, you know, they get done with the entire draft thing and they go, hey, look, Edgecombe fell to us.

1:33:26The Kyrie thing was kind of a joke, though, because I was thinking about his negotiation and he can opt out of the 44 million this year. And you're thinking, OK, but what what do I have to pay you? And you're not going back to the nets. Like the one team with all this cap space isn't going to the nets. And now if you're Kyrie's representation, you can go. It doesn't matter what our leverage is or isn't. But we said this two years ago with him and he still got that awesome contract for them. Remember? We were like, who are they competing against? Didn't matter. He got the 40 million a year. Yeah, but it was almost like they admitted we had to give him this because what we gave up for him.

1:34:01And you're like, okay, you could argue it's going to be the exact same thing that he's going to get everything that he wants because of even with the number one pick and bringing in flag. It's like, so wait, you're going to play hardball with me now, though, when you talked about this window and wanted to build this team around me and Anthony Davis. So I was trying to be cute with it. I don't actually believe that that would happen, but I don't know what Brooklyn's going to do with all of their cap space. Would Detroit try to, and they might not have enough space with the way that Cade's contract goes up a little bit here, but would they just go, hey, we'll give you the full four years to Miles Turner?

1:34:40You know, we have a stretch five to go with Duren. if you want to switch this and try to take away from a team that we're competing against. I was looking at him. We know the center market and it's around 20. That's where these guys land over and over again, except with the exception of Sabonis. So we think it's 20, but then we know with free agents, especially when there's not a lot of them out there, all of a sudden somebody gets some crazy deal. Do you think Miles Turner is worth more than$20 million a year? I think he is when there aren't any other good free agents out there. I mean, he's still only 29 years old.

1:35:15He just turned 29 two months ago, even though it felt like, again, we said this at the top, it felt like he was available there for a long time, but he was available in that way where it's like, well, we don't want to just give him away. Like, whatever you may think about his deficiencies, there's still a lot of really good stuff about it. And now here they are, two games away from the NBA Finals. But he was available partly because he kept getting thrown into Laker trades that seemed like they were just coming from Laker fans. you know where they're like oh they're going to trade for Miles Turner and Buddy Hill but it's like are they?

1:35:44I don't know why is Indiana doing that? Like I believe he was available for a while but they weren't going to give him away though they wanted to get a good player back for him alright I'm going to give you mine I didn't really give you one you you didn't have one you didn't have one I got, you know what though? 20 plus years of doing this. We got a few minutes out of it anyway. So thanks in advance.

1:36:18I have a good one. Can we talk about LeBron going to Cleveland? Sure. Can we just talk it out? Yeah. For sure.

1:36:32There's a couple of ways it could go. It's a really interesting last act for him. I'll start here. With what they have, with their assets they have, with him, Luka, and Reeves together, Reeves, I guess you could try to trade him this summer, which you'd have to with the way his contract is going to go. But I'm not sure if you're getting a piece back that if you put Luka and LeBron and whatever that piece is together, I still don't know what that gets you if you're the Lakers. And the GOAT stuff, which just doesn't end, ever. And every time you think it's over, now the agents are Friday night you have David Falk defending MJ and then Rich Paul's like, well, I've got to defend LeBron.

1:37:12Now we have the agents of the two guys involved in the GOAT discussion arguing about who's the GOAT. That's how bad it's gotten, how stupid it's gotten. I want it to end so bad. And I just thought after a certain age, honestly, with LeBron, to me at this point, there's only things he could add to his legacy. Playing this long, I don't think there should be any result, any stat line where you're allowed to then go, well, you know, I thought you were this, but this age 41 season, I've got to reassess things. You know, I, and Steph is kind of getting close to that. Like if Steph loses in the first round, it's like, oh, this guy lost this many times in the first round or didn't get it.

1:37:49The resume is complete. We've already printed it out in our printer. We have it. That would be a good segment where it's like, once you're past this threshold, like we can't it's like the over 38 rule but it's legacy top where we can't we can't take anything away from you now you know it's like lebron has 40 000 points but he didn't get 42 like you're just okay he's coasting a bit against minnesota you know second team on ba is that good enough if you're doing game four breakdown and saying hey i thought lebron wasn't showing the initiative that he showed in game three that's totally fair but if you're then using that as some like hey jordan will never do that jordan will never fucking coast it's like dude i don't want to do this it makes me actually want to talk about angel reese more so that doesn't happen um look angel reese post-ups i think we should have i ran into rich paul recently and it was funny because I thought he was coming over to give me shit about something I said.

1:38:52And honestly, dude, he's so good. He's so good with people. I was like, hey, man. And he's like, what's up? And I was like, are you getting on my case? Because he's like, man, I don't care about any of that shit. He's like, I don't know what you're talking. And then he started talking to me about college football. He's like, I love the stuff that you and Van and how much you love college football and I was like god I forgot because I hadn't talked to him in forever and I was like I forgot like how good he is compliments our currency yeah right and he but it again in a very genuine way which I think is like our good friend Tim Tim Walsh he's like the Rich Paul of my friend Timmy Walsh right Tim is interested in you he's complimentary he's sincere and it always is actually very genuine.

1:39:41It's not. So anyway, I don't know that I'll have Rich Paul on to defend himself against David Falk because I can't fucking take it anymore. Every time I see a first take clip that actually like legitimately addresses it. They did it on Friday. It couldn't have been more news. It was basketball news galore. But guess what? It's the same reason why like when ESPN tagged the Caitlin Clark, like they lost it was reanna stewart got that awful foul call look at me your guy and uh there was there was like the headline was like despite caitlin clark's efforts yeah liberty did they lose the liberty i don't know and then it was like oh look what look what they're doing it's like no they're not they're not doing anything they're giving you what you want because somebody is going to click on that because it led with caitlin despite caitlin clark's effort not hey liberty win on controversial late free throws and it is the same thing as lebron is that like until people start going i can't fucking take it anymore i'm not clicking on this i'm not watching the videos but i imagine the results are still there even though what is left there's not only there's no fucking bone left forget meat on the bone the bone has disintegrated the carbon dating on this thing.

1:41:03And I've yet to meet anybody. Have you met anyone who's changed their mind? And I, again, I just did five minutes on it. So, you know, you mean the one person was like, I was having a, I was at a party on Monday weekend. I met this guy and he thought LeBron was the goat and we had a drink and I laid out the case for MJ and he changed his mind. He was like, I hadn't thought of it that way. i'm now on team mj for the goat debate i'm telling you right now like if you're a guy in the tv opinion world and you already have to be like being invited to being on shows like i can't the college kids listening right now i'm like i don't know if you're gonna have the platform do it that would be the move like instead of you know where skip was just he was moving all of his belongings out of just to be open storage yeah but like skip was moving his stuff out of the lebron storage unit and he was putting in his ant storage unit because he thought he was like Like, you know, these old timey writers think these nicknames are actually fucking funny.

1:41:58Where it's like, can't man. And you're like, oh, that's Ruffles McHenry in the Globe, 1981. Thought of that in the showers. He's doing the Ray Liotta, finding out the heist happens. Can't man. I did it. The move would be for an opinion guy that's like not maybe not getting, you know, it's like another fill in shift. Like, I'm not even a head count. The move would be. July 5th show. That's when you're having me. Wait, so the jump is live on location. And then at second, you want me to be the backup third person in the LA live studio. But Greeny's not going to be on get up. And I'm only out of the first half hour.

1:42:41That happened to us on get up once. It was like, who is it? It's Cassidy, Russillo and who? Right. And that person didn't show up. Yeah. Yeah. I think that'd be a win. I think that'd be a real lane. it's like i'm open i haven't decided no to go on record and say after the next because it's going to come and come up again be like i've been in the lab i've been doing the research i'm going to lay it out i've changed my mind change my mind guys i don't think he exists in tv right now here's the here's it's funny because we're making fun of this but i'm also talking about a LeBron Cleveland scenario.

1:43:23I'm just wondering if it all ends with him going back to Cleveland. By the way, I'm not inventing this. People, this has been floating around for the last three, four weeks and people have been wondering just after how it ended for Cleveland. It's like, okay, what could they do? There's a couple different ways. First of all, I'm pretty sure unless I don't think I'm wrong that they could just trade Jared Allen and DeAndre Hunter for LeBron James and take the second year of his deal and maybe give them a one-year extension. That's a trade that, according to the trade machine, which still operates on ESPN, apparently that's a trade that works.

1:44:02Yeah, I am so nervous with the trade machine now too because stuff that works... It's like stat news. You just don't know. Yeah, you just don't know. Stat news. It's just like, it says it. I don't know if I believe it, but it's claiming this works. You could have the LeBron opt out and then sign for a smaller deal. So like it could just be LeBron for Jared Allen, a trade that I'm not even sure Cleveland would want to do because LeBron's going to be 41 years old next year. But he could opt out, do a deal around like 20 million, straight up trade for Allen. Or he could opt out of his deal and sign with them for the 12.9 mid-level.

1:44:43Or he could sign with them for the minimum. Yeah, but I don't know. See, this is where... And you could just be like, I'm passing up. I could have made$50 million. I want to win one more title in Cleveland so badly, I left that money on the table because that's how much I want to win. It'd be nice if you would do it for the Lakers. Would it be? I'm off their cap now. Yeah. I felt like I owed this to the Lakers. I hate to do this, but... Yeah. You kind of like this. no no but this is the problem like whenever you and i are just bullshitting and talking about trades and like different stuff and then it's like oh that actually isn't allowed and then you just want to yell no i did some i did some third team in this guy just pick one third team to move some of the stuff around uh if cleveland is over the tax though they're not going to have the full non-payer tax mid-level which is 14 i think this year so now we're talking like 5 million Look, if he's given up$50 million, he's probably giving up.

1:45:51I would say one of the things that was very consistent about the way LeBron has handled the finances here is that even if it wasn't that much of a haircut because it was a sign of trade in Miami. But there was always like this position of, hey, LeBron isn't the highest paid player in the league, isn't the highest paid player in the league. It was always like 97%. He was pretty much right there. and then when they did this last deal, my guess is they're doing these deals the way they're doing them so that he has the flexibility to opt out and then tack on the next year with the next option. And the Lakers were just, I mean, I guess the Lakers could have played hardball with him last year, but they didn't want to do that.

1:46:29Kobe famously was like, I'm going to get paid every dollar I deserve. I deserve until the end of my career because I've made you guys a shitload of money and there will be no haircut. Pay me. Just fundamentally, if they were able to add LeBron and keep Garland, let's say he did the minimum thing. Let's say he said, fuck it. Let's stack the Cavs. And they were finishing games with Allen and Mobley and LeBron and Mitchell and Garland. It's pretty interesting. In a weekend East.

1:47:07I don't think it's going to happen, but it was the craziest thing I could think of that I could also, I wouldn't be like, Oh my God. Like with the Luca trade, I wouldn't be like, Oh my God, he's going back to Cleveland. Cause we've already done this with him. And it would be an interesting way for his career to end. If he felt like he had one year left. What do you think? I'm not the first person who thought of this. I'm not taking credit for it. What if Mitchell, what do you think Mitchell would say to his closest friend? Awesome. Cool. The goat. I think there's some pretty interesting issues that come into play pretty quickly, right?

1:47:48Yeah, I get what you're talking about here, but I don't really know that it makes that much sense for them. It feels too risky, weirdly, for Cleveland, who won 64 games. Like the Allen and Hunter for LeBron, if you're doing that it's partly because you're trying to maybe dump contracts in the long term you're going to take the hit for one year with the money but then long term you're actually going to reset your your cap because they can get away with some second apron stuff next year just not the year after um i was trying to think is there any other team i could see him wanting to go to that would give him a chance to win the title the pacers for the mid-level i don't think of I don't think the Pacers would go.

1:48:34Dallas was interesting. I don't know. Dallas was interesting as one too because a kid and AD and Cooper flags there. Kyrie's coming back. I don't know. That was the only other one I could think of. Because otherwise, he stays with the Lakers and they trade Reeves. And if I was a Laker fan, I'm not sure that's the outcome I'd be hoping for. Right? Like, oh, cool. we're going to have to trade Reeves. Although Luca, I don't know if you saw the pictures of Luca recently. I don't trust pictures. I don't trust video clips. I don't trust pictures. Looks like he had some Caesar salad wraps. Some carrot juice.

1:49:20I don't know. You give me a golf weekend with my buddies and on Monday I look like something's wrong with me. That's how I'm going to feel after this three-day weekend. Is something wrong with you? Did you go out last night? You were a little choppy to start the pod today. What do you mean choppy? Just tired? Were you tired? Were you up late last night doing something in Hollywood? No. I'm just old.

1:49:47That's what it is. What's going on? I think we need to address this. What's up with you with the pickleball thing? You hit that guy right in the head. What is it? I don't play pickleball. that's what i would tell a jury i've never ever played pickleball you've never played pickleball indoors and assault somebody pickleball i've never held a pickleball racket i think pickleball is reprehensible what wasn't me what are you talking about there's footage of you um of me yeah go in let's do this we'll do this do it live okay are you gonna send this to me yeah you know what i'll actually send it to you okay because i've been tagged on it a million times and i it was unavoidable and so um let's see here uh this is people getting pissed our mobile yannis thing again oh is that a week ago two weeks ago um can you can somebody nobody's with you right now right I'm going to go into the hell of Twitter and Google my name with Pickleball and see what happens.

1:51:00That does look like me.

1:51:06First of all, I would never wear a green shirt.

1:51:12Oh, my God. You gave it to that guy. A kick? And another guy comes in? How about your backpedaling, though? That guy looked like he was ready to... He was on the longest drive at some charity event after like a couple nooners. It was not me. That's not you. I swear in the lives of my kids, I've never played pickleball. I'm glad we could clear that up. Yeah, thanks. Thank you for clearing that up. I didn't know this was a thing. This is amazing. Yeah. I hate pickleball. I'm already on the record. I think it's one of the worst things that's happened in the last 10 years from a competitive sports standpoint.

1:51:47I don't like hearing the noises. I don't like the people that play. There's a ton of injuries with them because people feel like they're playing adult ping pong and don't realize they're going to blow out their ligaments and Achilles. It's fucking stupid. Just play tennis. Just play tennis. Tennis is great. We've had tennis forever. There's tennis courts everywhere. Pick up a tennis court. You'll get more exercise. That's where I stand on pickleball.

1:52:14Well, it seems like some people take it a little too seriously. So that's another thing. apparently for your argument plus indoor fighting jesus with rackets uh all right rusillo you're doing your podcast tuesday i'm doing something tuesday night if you had to pick a which series ends sooner right now we're we're doing this for indiana and new york okay see you think okay see five still i feel like there are more problems that are unsolvable for minnesota in that series than I do for New York Pacers. But, you know, I also say that knowing I thought Minnesota would be more competitive in one of those two games.

1:52:56I guess you could say they're competitive for quarters one, two, and four. In both of them, when you look at the halftime stuff, like, hey, they're sort of in it. I just look at OKC as being that much better than everybody because of that defense. I did two Indiana bets before the series, for the series. I did two bets in the OKC Minnesota series. I bet the over five and a half games and I bet OKC to win parlayed with Indiana. Those are my two. I thought it was going to go six games, Minnesota. Wasn't feeling too good about that after game two, but five or six. We'll see. All right, Brasillo, enjoy your Memorial Day weekend.

1:53:36Thanks for popping on with us. All right, thank you. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Brasillo and Gahal and Eduardo. Don't forget, new Rewatchables come in Monday night. heaven can wait and I'll have a new podcast on Tuesday enjoy the rest of the weekend see you then

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