A Rockets Gut Punch, Expectations for the Celtics and Pacers, and a Vegas Tourism Slump With Zach Lowe, Sean Fennessey, and Chris Ryan

21:59Impossible high lottery picks. That's a big, big deal.

22:03Bill Simmons:Yeah. So they have that and they also have two and 29 of Dallas, Phoenix, Houston. They get the best two out of that.

22:15Bill Simmons:That Brooklyn trade... So we should talk... We should sidebar and talk about this Brooklyn trade really fast. So Brooklyn... and you were saying it was part of like, they're not doing the Bridges trade unless they can also get their 25 first back. They get their 25 first back from Houston because Houston had the swaps rights on it. And they get a 26 first back from Houston. So Brooklyn gets control of their own picks in 25 and 26. In exchange, they gave Houston Phoenix's first in 2025. Phoenix's 27 first unprotected and the best two of Dallas, Phoenix, Houston in 29. The reason this is important because last year, Brooklyn ends up being better than they thought they were going to be.

22:55Bill Simmons:They get the eighth pick. The pick they gave up in the trade was the 10th pick. So they moved up two spots. So this comes down now, really, to the 2026 first for three first round picks, including Phoenix's 27 first, which I would love to have if I'm basically anybody. That trade's a disaster. Can you defend it? This is yet another terrible Sean Marks moment. I don't know what else he has to do to be looked at. It turned out to be an absolutely great bet by the Rockets, betting specifically against the Suns. Betting that getting the Suns picks would help them get either Durant or Booker or both, and I believe they used one of those picks to get Durant the number 10 pick in the draft.

23:37Bill Simmons:That number 10 pick they got back from Brooklyn was in the Durant trade. I thought the Rockets had slightly underrated the risk that that pick last year could turn into Cooper Flagg, but they actually properly weighted it. you know the new lottery rods change all this and they just said we're gonna bet on a bounty of sun stuff over this one golden chip nets asset and it turned out to be a fantastic bet the nets kind of like self-sabotage by being too good to get into the cooper flag derby and now they're just gonna try to do it again and again and again going forward but they can only do it again this one time because after that the rockets could swap their pick in 27 like i thought that was a hugely underrated part of that whole series of transactions that the rockets kept those swap rights with Brooklyn in 2027 because the message to them was you get two years to do this two summers to do it.

24:25If you can't do it and you're still bad, like you're still fucked. We're still going to take your pick. Yeah.

24:30Bill Simmons:I didn't love it for the Rockets because I thought Brooklyn had a chance to be the worst team in the league. And I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have done that bridges trade of this trade. If they couldn't have gotten their pick back, I still think you have to do the bridges trade. Cause it was so many picks. How do they, how do they be like, ah, now we can't do it. We're just going to go 38 and 44. but I think it worked out unbelievably well for Houston. It could not have worked out better. Because part of that calculation was we think Phoenix in a couple years could be really bad. I thought Phoenix was going to be good last year.

25:04Bill Simmons:I thought they were, I had them as like a top four seed. It cratered immediately and now that pick looks awesome. I mean, if we were drafting, if we did a draft back and forth on five first rounders you would want in 2027. Phoenix would be one of the five teams, correct? Who else would you pick? Well, I mean, you got to pick all the also-rans, like Washington, Sacramento. It's always good to have a Kings pick. And by the way, Utah, I believe, owns... They have some golden... I'm looking at the wrong thing. They have the Suns 2031 pick, because remember the Suns did that thing, would give us three picks now, we'll give you one pick out the door.

25:45They've traded a lot of potentially massively valuable individual picks.

25:50Bill Simmons:Utah got really hosed on their Lakers first-round pick swap. They had to have been secretly the most upset about the Luka trade because they were just sitting there in pole position with a Lakers team that God only knows what would happen to them. Let's take a break, and Picasso's going to throw some names at you. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. It's one of the biggest weeks in sports. It really is. Lots of stuff to gamble on. FanDuel turning into a full-on celebration. Introducing FanDuel Boost Fest, where every day from September 25th to the 28th brings you a 50 % profit boost on the biggest matchups in football, baseball, golf, and more.

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27:06Bill Simmons:See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gam problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash Chad Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by NFL Sunday Ticket. My friend, NFL Sundays are back. You won't want to miss the action. NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV, another friend of mine, lets you catch every game every Sunday all in one place. And now, get NFL Sunday Ticket month to month and cancel anytime. Head to youtube.com slash BS and sign up now. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games and commercial use.

27:45Bill Simmons:If you cancel YouTube TV, you will lose access to NFL Sunday ticket. Terms of bargoes, device, and content restrictions apply. Commercial use excluded. Renews every month during the 2025 regular season. Cancel anytime. All right, so I laid out the Houston draft picks that they could potentially get frisky with. From a contract standpoint, they have, you know, the Reed Shepard's around 10. They could be cutthroat and put the Van Vliet contract in a trade as a salary who's 25 million this year 25 million next year so if you put him and shepherd together that gets him in the 30s which which opens the door for the trae young type of guys you could put your boy well i'm just i'm not saying they should do that i'm just saying jabari and shepherd together puts them in the 20 range shepherd by himself is around 10 and i think they're probably looking at stopgap guys because you're thinking about OKC.

28:42Bill Simmons:We're a point guard short. We need somebody really good if we're actually going to win the title. So I'm going to give you five names in no particular order. By the way, I just jotted down as we were doing this. I went through the standings, just literally jotted down names. So I'm excited to see if just my instantaneous jot down matched any of yours. I have five names. Number one. Well, I'll go from

29:05Bill Simmons:I'll go in descending order from least likely to get an eye bulge, kind of use don't breathe for a second to huge eye bulge. Can't wait. Ayo Desunmu. Not on my list. Good name. Talked about his extension case yesterday on the Zach Lowe show. He's a good player. Seven million a year, stopgap. They could probably patch some stuff together, maybe even throw some of their lesser picks and just grab them. Right? And if you're the Bulls, what do you care? You just want to go 40 and 42 again this year and not pay the luxury tax. That's your only goal year after year. Limited resume as a ball handler.

29:40Okay shooter. Very good defender. Fits in that way. I don't hate it. I don't think it really moves you back into the upper, upper stratosphere. It does not.

29:48Bill Simmons:It was just a name that jumped out. I would rather not do anything and hope Aaron Holiday is half decent. Second name, Jose Alvarado. Okay, yeah, you're starting lower than me. I didn't have him on my list. I love, look, I love Jose Alvarado. Makes four and a half million, could probably steal him. I don't think that swings an OKC series, but I think that would help them, right? Don't have to give up a lot. Maybe you throw a first at him. Protected. I'd rather get to Sumnu for the size, but Alvarado's a better playmaker, maybe a little bit better shooter. And trading with the Pelicans, you never know.

30:26You could get like an unprotected first or something for the Pelicans.

30:28Bill Simmons:You just never know what's on the table from them. Some sort of swap. All right, now we're getting serious. Scottie Pippen Jr. I like that. That's a good name. Cheap contract. Could get him easily. I don't know what Memphis' plan is for this season, but I assume they're not trying to win the title. Would be part of my guess, considering they traded Desmond Bain for a bunch of stuff, and they waived Cole Anthony, and Jaron Jackson was hurt, and I don't know when he's going to start this season. and could you actually turn Pippen into a real draft pick asset? Pippen is good. And one of the things I like about these names at the lower price point salary-wise is they can be one-for-one or two-for-two deals.

31:11Like Houston is reaching the point without Van Vliet that like two Rockets rotation guys out for one back is like you're thinning your team out quite a bit.

31:22Bill Simmons:Oh yeah, I should have mentioned this earlier. So the starting lineup they have right now is Sengun, Durant. I'm going to say Finney Smith, Thompson, and Shepard. Let's say that's the five. Adams, Jabari, Eason. Clint Capella is just randomly at this team. Akoji, Holiday. So to your point, they have eight and a half plus Capella, plus Akoji, plus Holiday as stopgap guys. I'm just going to say that I like Jay Shantate. I have a soft spot for Jay Shantate. I'll say it in there too. All right. Here are my last two, unless you want to throw one at me. Actually, I have bigger names. Okay. Well, I'm moving into my bigger category right now.

32:04All right. So some of this is like depending on how the first 20 games of the season goes. Like, is there a team that is way below expectations and suddenly pivots, like including perhaps your team, which we'll get to in a second. On a lower salary scale, Jaden Ivey.

32:20Bill Simmons:I don't think I'm beating OKC with Jaden Ivey as my ball handler. I don't mind it, though.

32:29Do you throw a boatload of assets at the Celtics for Derek White?

32:35Bill Simmons:Can we put a pin on that for a second? I'll give you two lower-level guys, and then we'll talk Derek White. Peyton Pritchard. you can throw any of the Celtics guards. I have Simons on my list. I don't think defensively he fits into their culture, but like any of the Celtics guards, like why not throw them in? Peyton Pritchard would be fine. Peyton Pritchard is making, I don't know, 9 million a year, 10 million a year, somewhere in that range. It weirdly lines up with Reed Shepard's salary.

33:09Bill Simmons:So part of the question for me is, what is, like if I'm doing a trade value list, where is Reed Shepard? He's certainly not in the top 50. Is his trade value higher than Peyton Pritchard? Is it lower? Is it the same? I have no idea. Do you have any take at all on that? I think I'm trying to look at Boston's. And if you're Boston, would you do that? I think they're probably about equal. And Pritchard maybe edges him out by a nose because his contract is longer than I thought. he has three years left on his contract at a cheaper salary to read shepherd shepherd's got the intrigue pritchard just won six man of the year um i would say pritchard probably has a little bit more like next two years trade value yeah that's an interesting one though again it depends like if boston season goes off the rails fast who knows well if they've made that and we're going to talk about them in the next segment but if they made the decision to tatum no i don't we we don't care how good you look, you're not coming back.

34:09Bill Simmons:And they own their own draft pick. Part of maybe making yourself a little worse for this year would be turning Pritchard, a really good bench guy, borderline decent starter into a project like Reed Shepard. But you'd have to really like Reed Shepard. I think that's the first one out of the names as I kind of escalate up the ladder where you go, yeah, that's a guy that could actually play in a series against OKC in Minnesota, right? I don't know if he played crunch time, but you could get 20 to 25 really good minutes from him. And then the other one, ironically, another white guy, TJ McConnell.

34:45Bill Simmons:And I would say his trade value is probably lower than Pritchard. But Indiana in the same boat as Boston. I don't know what their strategy is going to be for this year. But if you can turn TJ McConnell into Reed Shepard, you got to at least think about it because you're going nowhere this year anyway, right? I think for Houston, you need another asset. That almost seems like a two-for-one. Yeah, TJ McConnell's 33. Yeah. We both love TJ McConnell. Suddenly the greatest isolation score in the NBA out of nowhere. Single-handedly with Knippo bringing back the upfakes around the basket. Yeah. I think I need a little more.

35:28But these are good names. I was just doing, I was doing like, as you would say, blink test, just looking at the standings who pops into my mind. And I want bigger names than this. But these are these are good, a good range of names.

35:39Bill Simmons:These are the what's do something, but let's not do anything dramatic. Derek White is the dramatic name. I mean, that's one where you I need. Give me some shit back for Derek White. I need that Phoenix pick you have in 27. That's coming back. Like you're you're giving me real stuff for that. And if you're Houston, I don't know what the price is. I think Shepard probably has to be in it too. But if you're Houston and you basically turn this Van Vliet disaster into Derek White with some of your picks and you make a real run at this year, could you actually win the title with Derek White? I think is a real question.

36:19You get four years of runway. Now that takes him through age 35. He's got four years left on his contract with a player option in the fourth year. he's I mean Imei knows him already

36:29Bill Simmons:he's a top 50 player this is a different caliber of dude you've actually going from Fred Bainbley to Derek Way you've upgraded your team you've made your team better he's a better player yeah what's the price for him though for you in your opinion oh for Boston it's like three firsts a young player I mean they would demand a shitload for justifiably like for him it's a tough phone call to Tatum it is a tough phone call heard the rehab's going great and to Jalen too heard the rehab's going great we've traded Derek White for a bunch of assets that won't help you guys until about three years from now it's a tough phone call to Tatum on the other hand Tatum has won an NBA title several first team all NBA appearances and is slated to make 71.5 million dollars in 2029 2030 so I'm I would hope that he would see the bigger picture.

37:26Bill Simmons:Just these numbers starting with a seven for NBA players. Really, really something. Who else did you have for the big names? I get these are just names I randomly wrote down in a 45 second scan while you were talking on the podcast. So take them with a grain of salt. The recently injured Tyler Hero.

37:47Bill Simmons:So it would be hard to get there from a salary standpoint. What is what's his salary? He's like at 30. 31. 31. So Van Vliet's 27. You know, you've got some - So Van Vliet has to be in that. Yeah. Man, that's pretty cutthroat, man. Trading. I don't know if I'm doing that unless I can. I would put Van Vliet in a Derek White trade, but not a - Okay. Am I winning the title with Tyler Harrow in the Van Vliet spot? Probably not. The next ones are just wild. And again, I cannot emphasize enough how little thought I put into any of this. Yeah, no. This is why we love podcasting. If you're willing to eat a lot of years, I don't actually don't think this is possible.

38:24Emmanuel quickly just popped into my mind. I just think it's too much money, too many years. He's too unproven. I don't, I don't see it. Yeah.

38:30Bill Simmons:And he doesn't solve my, I want to make sure I have ball handling and leadership in the most tense possible moments in May and June. I'm not, I'm not feeling that with Emmanuel quickly. The last one requires like 17 different things that go wrong for one team and just a lot of bad vibes, a lot of puzzle pieces that have to shift. I'm excited for this. What if things just go very badly this season for Austin Reeves with the Lakers? What if it's like you asked me to come off the bench, extension talks, they couldn't really get started because you couldn't offer me enough, but I'm not sure do you really value me enough in a Luka world?

39:15LeBron is still here. Is he retiring? if he's retiring, is that good for my future in LA? I'm just saying, there's a world in which, I don't think this is going to happen, but it's a name that popped into my head.

39:26Bill Simmons:So you're running some offense through him not as a point guard, but as like a ball, almost like how you'd use Hero. Yeah, he can do that. Feels like you have some thoughts on maybe Austin Reeves might be more available this season than you've heard. No, no, I'm not saying that. The Lakers love Austin Reeves. The aggregators were like, No, the Lakers love Austin Reeves. Austin Reeves loves being a Laker. Austin Reeves' people are very close to the Rambi and Jeannie Buss. They love it there. But I'm just saying, like, it's not, we've seen more hunky-dory situations go awry before in big markets where, like, a lot of stuff happens.

40:09And, you know, who knows? I'm just, I don't think that'll happen. I don't think any of these names are likely. I like your little names better. I just don't know that the little names do enough for me. I'm surprised. Derek White does though. Oh, Derek White. I mean, look, but to your point, I think right now, I think right now the Celtics are with you. I think right now the Celtics are like, look, even if this becomes a gap year, we're bringing everybody back next year. We're going to try and like go, go full bore again. Like got these, the Jays in their prime making a gazillion dollars. I don't.

40:39And Derek White is just an A++ winning player. So I agree with you.

40:45Bill Simmons:You don't want to hop in the Trae Young trade car and just drive around the block? Drive it. Hop in. I'll ride shotgun. I'm on record as saying that I said yesterday that if I'm the Hawks, I'm going four years,$180 million for Trae Young right now. And I'm offering a bit to him today. And if he doesn't take it, then I got to think, do I want to raise it up a little bit? But take the car out. You're the rocket. You want to trade for Trae Young? Well, I really like my roster if I'm the Hawks. I don't want to be paralyzed by the Trae Young extension where I basically limited myself to, it's going to be this year only, and then I'm going over the second apron from that point on with my roster once we have to pay some of these other guys.

41:28Bill Simmons:Trae Young on Houston with Durant and with Shang-Goon, I'm just not going to be good enough defensively. I don't think. it's a lot that is a it's a big ingredient to throw into your team two weeks before the season starts to have you and Shendun on the court together I'm not winning the title this is also a guy who is accustomed to running like literally 60 pick and rolls a game he is the entire offense and plopping him into one of the greatest scorers of all time and this young ascendant center who does a lot of stuff with the ball, it's tricky. That's tricky. And it's a lot of money going out too.

42:10He's making$46 million.

42:13Bill Simmons:I really like Peyton Pritchard, but I also like that move for the Rockets. I actually think that's the answer in this because it's a little lower risk. It makes sense for Boston because you would only do it if you got a better asset than him as a player. And then you keep Simons for the year and you have this asset that maybe you could flip back. The Derek White thing, though, if I'm Houston, I'm calling about Derek White. Like, yo, had to make this call. What's going on? Would Boston trade with Houston is another interesting one? Because of... Eh, you know. Their coach used to coach the Celtics.

42:53Can I give you one more name as I'm going through a random team that I just have to remind myself sometimes that they exist and we should talk about them? Yeah. Colin Sexton?

43:01Bill Simmons:Yes! Yes! How did you know? That's the name. I looked at him too. Expiring contract, 19 million. Charlotte doesn't care. Could Charlotte get Reed Shepard for Colin Sexton? That would be crazy. No, no, no, no. I think Colin Sexton is pretty good. I think that's actually a good name. I'd have to work out what the trade would be, but I think that's a good name. I jettisoned him because he's at like 19 million. Great use of the word jettison. I don't know that if I've said that out loud in like five years, that word. I like to dust them off they would have to put that would have to be their Van Vliet and I don't think they're going to trade Van Vliet for Colin Sexton just for a variety of reasons but Jabari would have to be I don't know I couldn't figure out how to make that one work can I ask you one more Rockets question yeah well I have another Rockets question for you too what's yours are you surprised at all that Tar Eason extension has not like happened and there hasn't been like a whiff of noise about it at all what does that extension look like for you well jabari got what five of four of four or five and like five one twenty i think it was something like that um you know i think if i'm eason i've had some some leg injuries that have kept me out for a while that have been recurring you know hopefully those are behind them but you know he's probably asking for 30 20 25 a year four years 100 something like that.

44:29He played 25 minutes a game last year. Okay.

44:33Bill Simmons:12 points a game, six rebounds, 30 million? No, they're not. I wouldn't give him that. I'm saying is 25 too much? I mean, Giddy just got 25. Giddy is a more proven player, but also with a lot of question marks about stats. I mean, you and I both really like Tari Issa, but man, he's going to make more than 20 million a year? If there's an extension, I'll bet you it's over 20 million a year. Really?

45:00Wow.

45:00Bill Simmons:I just didn't think they were giving those. I mean, you did the pod about it yesterday with this, with the aprons. It just feels like, uh, it feels like that money is in there in the same way. Like, do you think he has more contract value than Kaminga who nobody even wanted to offer 20? I personally liked Tari some more, but I don't know. I'd say they're around the same vicinity. yeah they're around the same vicinity though the injuries would scare me i mean he did play 82 games as a rookie 22 the second year is disturbing 57 last year maybe yeah i i still think these guys just get 20 million that's i don't well what was your rockets question did van blick going down make it more or less likely for them as a home for a honest trade oh my god okay now

45:58Bill Simmons:because if we were doing the Giannis trade possibility rankings they were always in the top three and had a case for number one right wouldn't you have to say more would you just have to but I don't think Giannis is getting traded this year do you listen it's the NBA it's harder to do it during the year It's harder to do it during the year. That's the only problem. I'm just conditioned to weirdness and guys being available that we never thought would be available. But it would have to be... What would happen to Thanasis? I think he's in the trade. Yeah. I'm just checking. It would be Shang-Goon and Jabari and all the picks.

46:41Right.

46:42Bill Simmons:To what end at that point? Well, that's... But this is the question of like, we have our winner now at Durant, and now we have Giannis, and we can run the team through Giannis because Giannis can basically be point center and you could talk yourself into it. It's easy to talk yourself into it. I was talking to someone in the league yesterday about the Hawks and Giannis because I just have my radar up on the Hawks. They have those Milwaukee picks, pieces of the next two Milwaukee picks. They have Jalen Johnson. They have Risa Shea. They have like all the ingredients. They almost hired, they interviewed Giannis' agent to be their GM.

47:12Like there's just a lot of, there's a lot of like just dots sitting out there. and you know we were pitching this this guy and i were pitching trades he's like so what's the trade i was like well it's like jalen johnson reese a shea probably has to be in it a bunch of picks and you know whatever else and probably dyson isn't in it and he was like oh you do that for yannis 100 times out of 100 and i said well you know someone made the point to another person made the point to me like we just saw dame and yannis not work well enough like it worked but not well enough should should the hawks think that trey and yannis is going to work better than that no and he was like no you just you just do the honest deal it's the honest you do it i'm like i feel like we always say that about now he's he's only 31 he's not old he's not a shooter which is a little worrisome for his aging curve but we always say that about these like superstar trades okay it's this person you got to do it i'm like do you like do you i don't know do you i would zag and

48:10Bill Simmons:say if you did it trey young should be in the trade yeah that could be that you could go that I've already seen this game with Giannis and Dame. I think that's why the Rockets fit is weirdly interesting to me because I think Giannis really likes to have the ball all the time. But who's with me? So in your trade, it's me, Giannis, Durant, Schengunza, Amen Thompson. It's everybody else but Amen Thompson and Durant is gone. Can I just end up with Giannis, Durant, Thompson, maybe Eason?

48:46Bill Simmons:and maybe I keep Reed Shepard and then you can have everything else in all my picks. Because I think those picks, that Phoenix 27 pick is a true trade trip. It's interesting because our guy Bobby Marks. You better fucking win. You better fucking win in the next two years. Well, our guy Bobby Marks did a piece on ESPN like five, six days ago, ranking the best draft assets everybody had. I think he had Houston fifth. And I just can... They have great drafts. I completely disagree. I would rather have Houston's picks than anyone else's picks. Because you could make the... OKC has a ton of picks. I don't really individually love any of the picks.

49:27Bill Simmons:Like their best pick is probably that top four protected Philly pick. Philly's not going to be bad this year. You know, the Edgecombe thing, I think was a little bit of a game changer for their ceiling. I don't think they're going to buy that. I heard you with, I can't remember who it was, but you're in house, I think. You're intrigued. I'm going to say intrigued. I'm intrigued by Philly because I think they can... Skinny Embiid in particular has gotten your attention. Oh, anytime somebody, anytime a big man does the Tim Duncan, you have my interest. Like when Skinny Tim Duncan was one of my favorite Tim Duncan.

50:05So you are all in on the 2025-26 Philadelphia 76ers? I couldn't be less all in. I did. One of the things I said. I was trying to trick the aggregators. Simmons, 50 wins coming.

50:18Bill Simmons:I think they can win the title. I sent you my top 100 list to look at that I was tinkering with. And I had, and Bede was one of those where I just, where does he go? I've no, does he go, is he in the 60s? Should he be on the list at all? Should he be like in the top 30? I don't like it. 60s, right? Yeah, because I don't know how many games he's going to play. I don't. If I gave you an over-under for Embiid for 40 games, would you go over or under? Under. Yeah. So how can he be higher than, I don't know, 65? You have him 63rd, one spot behind Rudy Gobert, continuing just the freight train of Rudy Gobert disrespect.

50:57Bill Simmons:Yeah, honestly, that was just shots at Rudy. There's really no other reason for that. yeah so speaking of those finals odds that we mentioned earlier do we agree Minnesota 20-1 is the most jarring value bet that doesn't make sense when you look at all the collection of the rest of the guys or rest of the team yeah because once you get Minnesota then Atlanta is next and that's sort of I mean Warriors plus 3 ,000 behind Atlanta and Detroit Can you see that? I can see that, yeah. Those are the odds. And I left out a couple teams, but... Yeah, the Warriors aren't there. The Warriors are... You know why the Warriors aren't there?

51:42Bill Simmons:Because I would urge everyone not to bet on the Warriors to win the 2026 NBA title. It's ludicrous. I know they're in the West, too, which influences all of these, but for them to be behind Detroit and Atlanta... By the way, I didn't put Detroit on that list either I was looking at because guess who's not winning the title this year? Detroit. Well, I'm just going on. I'm just looking at FanDuel. You edited FanDuel's list to fit your preferences. I just think Golden State plus three. They were like 25-5 with Butler and Steph. Put a little respect on Steph Curry's name. That's all I'm saying. Sure.

52:19Bill Simmons:Listen, it took them seven games to beat that flawed Houston team last year. And I don't know what's going to be different as everybody's a year older. Like they're going to be healthier this year. that this is, we went through this with LeBron for the entire 2020. It's like old guys get banged up as the season goes on. This is how it goes. I'm betting on youth every time. Look, I have already said the window is closed, in my opinion, on this iteration of the Steph Warriors winning title, that's close. And I don't see a roadmap for them to get back to prominence that does not include a lightning strike trade or free agency signing, which of course is possible.

52:54But I think they're in a more precarious position as a franchise than perhaps anyone but their diehardiest diehards realize right now.

53:04Bill Simmons:If I gave you Dallas 40-1, Boston 50-1, San Antonio 55-1, and Milwaukee 55-1, and I told you one of those teams was going to win the title with those odds, which one would you guess? Milwaukee. So I had that as well. And it's a simple equation, Giannis plus East. yeah and he gets to the finals and then it just becomes a best guy in the series yeah you probably need some injury luck during the finals on the other team so when i did my ringer 100 exercise uh the sobering part was there were only two bucks on the in the hundred i had uh janice and miles turner and nobody else on the bucks not a good sign for the season um i mean i want to talk about that let's take one more quick break and then uh we'll talk about that All right, we're jumping into a special part of the show brought to you by NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV.

54:00Bill Simmons:You know how I feel. This is a must. If you like the NFL, you have to subscribe to NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. You get every game every Sunday all in one place. Watch up to four games at once with MultiView, my buddy. So you can never miss a key moment in the field. It's just incredible. And they made me the CMO. They crowned me their chief MultiView officer. So it's my job to tell you which games are a must watch this week. Remember, local and national games on YouTube TV, NFL sending ticket for out-of-market games, excludes digital-only games, a commercial use device, and content restrictions apply.

54:31Bill Simmons:Terms and embargoes apply. No refunds. This is a perfect day for us because we have an Ireland game, right? The Thursday game, we have the Ireland game. And then they actually staggered the early and the late games perfectly. So we only have seven early games. and here are the four that I would target for the multi-view. Chargers, Giants, Chargers 3-0, Jackson Darts first start. That's a must-watch. Philly, Tampa, awesome game. We saw it in the playoffs last year. Two 3-0 teams. Got to lock that one in. Cleveland, Detroit. So Detroit just looked awesome in Baltimore and then Cleveland has the makings of it's a top three defense.

55:16Bill Simmons:We'll see if it travels on the road. I think that's the third one. And then for me personally, I would have Pats, Panthers because I'm a Patriots fan. But I think the right choice is probably Washington and Atlanta. We'll see if Atlanta can bounce back from an embarrassing loss to Carolina. Washington on the road, indoors. That's just, that's a really good one. So thanks again, YouTube, for crowning me their chief multi-view officer. Remember, every game, every Sunday, your fingertips, choosing the ones that deserve a spot on the multi-view. I take it more seriously than just about anything. Never miss a moment of the action with NFL sending ticket on YouTube TV.

55:50Bill Simmons:For a limited time only, get$36 off NFL sending ticket using code BS36 at checkout. New users only while supplies last. Ends 9-22. Go to youtube.com slash BS to sign up now. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL sending ticket for out-of-market games. Excludes digital-only games and commercial use. Device and content restrictions apply. Terms and embargoes apply. No refunds. So I mailed you my preliminary ring 100. And one of the things I did was I wrote down the teams with how many players they had. And I did this last year and it really helped crystallize in my head. Oh, OKC should probably win the title if they can stay healthy because they, and this year I have OKC with seven of the top 90 guys.

56:36Bill Simmons:SGA 2, Jalen Williams 11, Chet 18. And then you still have Dork, Caruso, Hartenstein and Wallace. it's interesting. The only other team that had more than five was Minnesota, who I had at five, Anthony Edwards, and then 47, 59, 62, 72, and 90. So that's six guys, including DiFincenzo, who I think is one of the best 100 players in the league. And nobody else had more than five. Denver, I had five. Knicks, five. Houston, five. They had six before Van Vliet. And then after that, it's four or less. I think that matters I think you have to think about the league that way and if somebody has 6 of the top 90 guys including a top 7 guy they should be one of the title favorites in my opinion look I mean I think Minnesota is underrated we agree I don't have them in the same I did not have them quite in the same I had them knocking on the Houston Denver tier I think Denver is better than them although again as I've said repeatedly Minnesota fans.

57:42They now have a track record against Denver and against Jokic that could not be dismissed. It could not be ignored as a fluke. There's something there. I think you may have DiVincenzo a little bit overrated. Like, I would take a couple of guys and put them in the top 100 over him, but it's fine either way. Yeah, no lie. I think they're tough as hell. Their defense is going to be solid. I think, you know, I said this last week with Mahoney, I just think there's something structurally just slightly askew with their team that manifests itself at the highest. Like, there always seemed to be one playmaker short, like half a playmaker short, half a shooter short, or one of each.

58:21Just something, you know, and then figuring out the big man rotation among those three guys is always, they're just something like, that just can't quite click into place with their rotation. But they're very, very good.

58:34Bill Simmons:If Dillingham was actually playable and impactful as a bench guy this year. Does that change their ceiling for you? Sure. And I think Shannon is going to be playable as a bench guy as well. And Clark maybe too. Jalen Clark, they tried him against Oklahoma City in the conference finals last year. He wasn't quite ready for it, but Shannon was ready. And again, Dillingham as the playmaker, the straight line drive guy, that's a missing piece for them. But they're just rock solid. Rock fucking solid. It's just, Their biggest problem, I said this to Mahoney, their biggest problem is the same problem that everyone else in the West has, is that the Thunder are just incredible and young and only going to be getting better.

59:16Bill Simmons:The Thunder who was hiding the Jalen Williams wrist injury that they never told us about from the last basically three months of the season, including the playoffs. So just from that alone, they're probably going to be better. I think it's funny that these three teams are all in the same division. OKC, Denver, Minnesota, not that divisions matter, but I'm wondering, they changed. I always forget this. They changed the seeds a little bit, right? So you could, we could potentially have OKC and, I'm sorry, Denver and Minnesota as the 2-3 or is that impossible? No, I think that's possible. I think division, they've reduced it to like a tiebreaker thing in like very rare scenarios.

59:55Bill Simmons:So your Minnesota case that you made about how well they've matched up with Denver over the years, that might be our 2-3. Could be. Right? I assume OKC is going to win it again. Yeah, so going through that top 100, which was just a fun exercise for my brain, I had Denver with number one, 40, 44, 66, and 74. And I didn't have Michael Porter on my list. So Cam Johnson is basically a free ad for them, not to mention that Bruce Brown, Hardaway, Valanchunas, whatever they can get from the young guys, Watson and Strother this year. I think they're the best. I think they're still the best bet for the odds right now, plus 750.

1:00:39Bill Simmons:Them or Minnesota. Because you're basically, if you're betting against OKC, those would be the two teams I would deal with. Because I think the winner comes out of the West. They took Oklahoma City to seven games last year with Michael Porter Jr. playing with one arm and a pretty flawed and shallow roster to the point they're like, hey, Julian Strother, can you have like two straight miracle games for us after doing nothing the whole season for us to survive in this series? What about Russ, who was just cast aside immediately after, who actually had moments where he played real minutes in that series?

1:01:11Bill Simmons:Unsigned. Unsigned. Well, we didn't talk about that. Is there a Houston maybe on that? I mean, I wouldn't do it. But they've lived the experience already in what feels like a completely different league and a completely different universe. Do you think there were techs? Raphael Stone and Doka and a couple of people. There was a Russell Westbrook. What are your thoughts? I don't think so. I don't think so yet. Not even a text thread. Still too fresh. Any interesting on Russ? No? Okay. The thing with Denver that's worrisome is in your rank, not worrisome, but like from your rankings perspective is 140.

1:01:56Number one, and then the second guy is 40. Like that's a lot on number one to do that. They need Jamal Murray to play himself back into the killer playoff guy, Jamal Murray, who was closer to 20 than 40.

1:02:10Bill Simmons:I had Orlando and I probably had Franz at, I think, 49, which is probably too high. I should lower him into the lower 40s. That was one of my notes. You have Franz below three spots lower than his teammate Jalen Suggs. I gotta fix that. Regardless, they have four of the top 50 now with Bain included. We'll see if the supporting cast can come through. But as you looked at this preliminary list that I laid out, and there's... Wait, wait, wait. Can we stop for a minute? Four of the top 50? For Orlando, yeah. Franz, Paolo, Bain, and Suggs. Suggs is just no-brainer top 50 player for you. I love Suggs.

1:02:58Bill Simmons:Now the Orlando fans are going to get mad at you. Well, that's fine. I mean, there's like 17 of them. They can only do so much damage. I mean, I just want to... Their season fell apart when he got hurt last year. No, no, no. Nobody... I love Jion Suggs. He's great. Like, love everything about him. Love the way he plays. Don't love that he's a career 33 % three-point shooter. But more than that, I don't love that he played 48 games, 53 games, 75 games, and 35 games. Can I get a little bit more availability before I just pencil you in as a top 50 player in the world's greatest basketball league?

1:03:30Bill Simmons:That's all. Would you rather have him, LaMelo Ball or Tyler Hero this season?

1:03:39You're going to make me say it. You're going to make me say it. You're going to make me say it. I'm going with LaMelo Ball. I'm going down with the ship. It's a fun ship to be on. It's neon green, highlighter yellow, whatever it is. Everyone's dressed funny. I'm going down with the LaMelo Ball ship.

1:03:55Bill Simmons:You know, I almost put Knipple in the top 100. I thought about it because I think he's going to be immediately good. I looked for him in the top 20 and I was like, oh, I guess he's somewhere in the 50s or 60s. But they do have four guys with a top 100 case now if Knipple's good, right? So there's at least the signs of something. Now, I have no idea who their center is going to be. Like, no idea. Maybe Knipple, small ball five. Just a jack of all trades. There's a Plumlee still on that team. There's only one Plumlee left. Saloon as an undersized center. Salon. Salon, whatever his name is. I like calling him Saloon.

1:04:32They like the Kalkbrenner kid that they drafted from Creighton, I believe. I think he was a defensive player of the year, like, multiple times in whatever conference Creighton is in now. If he went to Creighton, I could be completely wrong.

1:04:43Bill Simmons:He did go to Creighton. Yeah, so anyway, with this top 100, to me, Jokic, SGA, Giannis, Luka, and Edwards have to be the top five in that order. And then the question for me is, is it a top five or a top six? Do you have Wemby in that top tier yet, Or do you want to see him play a full season and be on a team that's above 500 before you give him top-level status? Well, these are forward-looking rankings, right? The idea is to project for the season. This season. I'm ready to put him in the top six tier. I just think if I'm projecting forward what he's going to be this year and what the Spurs can be this year, I'm just like, I'm going to put him in there.

1:05:23It's it's he's already going to be by some order of magnitude, the most destructive and defensive force in the NBA. And so that's like half of the game is played on that end of the floor and he's single handedly dominating it at all times. And so I think the offense will come up a tick and on every possible metric and in every possible skill. So I'm going let's put him in the initial top six tier.

1:05:46Bill Simmons:Okay. Because I do feel like then you go into Mitchell and Brunson and Curry and Cade. I just think Wemby's ceiling is just higher than those guys. He could be the destructive kick-ass force on a really great team. The Dallas Mavericks.

1:06:08Bill Simmons:So the three teams before we go, the three teams where I'm like, I don't know what to expect this year are Dallas, Boston, and Indiana. where I think those are the teams with the most floors in the building between the basement and the top floor. And Dallas, if Kyrie can somehow come back and be pretty competent March-April range, and if Flagg is as good as I think he's going to be, I think Dallas is going to be really good. And I think they're kind of lurking as us going in March, like, holy shit, Dallas is good now. So I just think it's notable that their odds were as bad as they were. I actually quite like their team.

1:06:54I agree with you that they're hard to project. I think they're more a 26-27 team than a 25-26 team because you led it with Kyrie. I got to see that first because with D 'Lo in his spot and the trickle-down effect of that to the bench guards, I think they'll be solid and defensively pretty solid, assuming AD stays relatively healthy. I can't get further than that in the West. And also, I just still think that they're going to have to figure this out. We really want to play AD at the four for 75 % of his minutes. Do we really think that's a good idea? Because I'm not sure that that's a good idea.

1:07:35Bill Simmons:So they play Lively or Gafford with AD and Flagg all together. And they're just like, nobody's doing anything around 15 feet from the basket anymore. and we're getting all the rebounds. That was the vision when they made the Luka trade among many other visions that were unveiled. It's so weird that I kind of like it. I don't mind it. I just think offensively, you've got to figure out what Anthony Davis is doing besides spotting up for 18-foot jump shots that no one cares to really defend very hard. Are we sure he's still on the team in February? Oh, my God. Well, I do. You know, it's like, I mean, given what they did to get him, I think it would be pretty catastrophic for him to not be on the team even optically.

1:08:17But they didn't know they were getting Cooper flag when they made the trade. No, they did not. What are you talking about? The vision, that was the vision. What did he say? Like the plan is coming to fruition now? I forgot. Apologies to Nico.

1:08:26Bill Simmons:Nico didn't have the vision. But I will say like I did this whole thing on veteran extensions yesterday. Yeah. And like how difficult it is to suss these out for guys who are making an enormous amount of money. AD is not eligible now. Next summer he is. And I think that becomes one of the most interesting extension cases in the NBA. How do you extend Anthony Davis at age 33 or 32, whatever he's going to be, coming off a$58.5 million contract? Like that's, or a$54 million contract going into a$58 million contract. That's hard, man. That's a big, big decision. I'd be very nervous about that. For a team that didn't want to pay Luka, the Supermax, right?

1:09:05Like that's one of the reasons they got out of the Luka business is like, that's just too much money. So what's AD's next contract going to be? and now Luca's built like the rock fucking ripped I mean this was all incredibly predictable right like this is all we said I didn't have a job when he got traded I still said it anyway like this is if this doesn't light a fire under his ass to get in better shape to get in the best shape he's ever been in like nothing will and all of a sudden it's like oh here he is on the cover of freaking men's health men's health breaking stories I didn't see that coming I loved it It's a great PR strategy.

1:09:41Like, you know what? You know what we should go to? Men's health.

1:09:46Bill Simmons:Yeah, who knew? He kind of revived him. I'm very excited for the Luka MVP. I know we'll be talking about it all season, but Luka never having won the MVP and still being plus 380 on FanDuel when it feels like he would be the favorite for me. I just don't see a scenario where he's not fucking awesome this season. I keep hearing this on podcasts that shall not be named. Like, my sneaky, this is a hot take. I think Luka's going to be at the center of the MVP discussion. I'm like, you think so? He's going to be at the center of the MVP discussion? Yeah, obviously. Also, I love the best narrative. Giannis at 12 to 1 is not intriguing because he could just single-handedly drag Milwaukee to like 52 and 30 and have the greatest year he's ever had.

1:10:32Bill Simmons:And plus now with Thanasis at his side, you know, like a Bird McHale type thing. it's really interesting because if luka puts up his normal numbers over let's say 75 games i mean those top four guys put up stats where it's like i i don't even know what to like yeah they're like brain breakers if yokich averages 30 10 and 10 and breaks the efficiency records again it's like you have to sort of come up with a case against him and shay to his credit was so outrageously good last year and matched him in all the metrics that he did it but it's just like when you're talking about oh you know could Cinderella MVP can it's like could Donovan Mitchell play his window it's like I love Donovan Mitchell like it's just a different stratosphere of yeah of player we saw the best possible MVP campaign from Mitchell last year and he had no chance they won 64 games and he was the best guy in the team and he wasn't even like I think like one person it's like Cade you and I both love Cade I've always loved Cade it's like sneaky MVP candidate I'm like I don't think like I like Cade but that's maybe sneaky fifth ballot spot candidate.

1:11:36Bill Simmons:Do you think there, is there a Malik Beasley getting signed this year possibility where he just sneaks onto a really good team as a wild card? Have you heard anything about that? I have not heard much except that, um, I think that there's a lot of frustration from the players union about how this all unfolded, the timing of it, how it was leaked, where it was leaked. And they're trying to figure out exactly what to do about it. But, um, Because it unquestionably cost him$40 million. And he's been cleared, but not really cleared, like according to the reporting. He's still being, I don't remember what the terminology was, but they're still looking at him, but he's been, I don't know what it was.

1:12:17So I don't know if that hay is still too thick for teams to look at him. But yeah, I mean, look, it's... Before we go, what awkward pre...

1:12:28Bill Simmons:Oh, we never talked about Boston, Indiana. Let's do it. Let's do it really quick. Yeah. we talked about Dallas, high ceiling, low floor. Boston, Indiana is weird because we have no idea if they're just going to toss away the season. Halliburton's definitely not coming back. Tatum, who knows? The Celtics are saying he's not coming back, but I don't know. You know, it'll be 10 months, like mid, right after the All-Star break, right around his birthday, which has been floated around in circles about could he be back on his birthday on March 3rd? that's 10 months from the injury. We've talked in the past about he had the surgery within 10 hours in New York, never flew.

1:13:10Bill Simmons:This would be like the greatest test case for could somebody actually come back. And he had the real surgery because there's two ways to do it. Where like Dame had the other type of surgery where they do the, it's like a, almost like a patch and you can come back faster, but it's not a hundred percent. I think Clay had that too. Tatum had though, we're fixing this. And if you're the Celtics, you can't not think like, well, what happens if he's 100 % and scrimmaging in February? And what are we just going to do, not play him? So I don't know the answer to that, and I don't think they do either.

1:13:43I just know I would be nervous bringing a guy off an Achilles tear back, let's say mid-March, optimistically, right? Super optimistically. Be like, hey, we're fighting like hell to get into the play-in tournament or stay in the play-in tournament. Yeah, we're an eight seed. And if we do that, then we're going to play New York in the first round of the playoffs. I just, that would make me nervous. You know I'm lower on Boston, and I don't know what their over-under is, but I just think their lack of depth has been. Now, they'll turn Minot into something, and Garza will get free reign to just chuck threes.

1:14:24I just think their depth chart is like a whole bunch of question marks after like the six best guys on the team who are good, who are good. One of whom is Anthony Simons. He's like, did the Celtics even want Anthony Simons? I'm not even sure about that.

1:14:39Bill Simmons:I did, I flew back from Boston on Saturday night and I did my first wave of NBA research on the fight as I watched terrible movies on AMC or terribly good movies, I should say. Like Taken. What'd you see? What'd you watch? Movies I've seen a million times. Taken, what was the other one? I've never seen that. You've never seen Taken? You have a daughter. It's a must watch if you have a daughter. Why? It's just a guy trying to save his daughter. But she gets kidnapped. It sounds horrible. He gets her back. In the end, he kills a thousand Albanians and gets her back. You got to watch it. But yeah, so I laid out the starters and the bench, like the depth chart.

1:15:16Bill Simmons:And I don't think, I must have been in denial or lying to myself. But when I actually saw it laid out, I was like, oh my. Like, I had Boucher and Hauser in the starting lineup. Yeah, when you write it down, you're like, oh. Yeah. This is what happens. A sherman playing? One of your three, your best guy gets hurt. And then we trade two of our other key guys to dump money. Like, yes. And Horford is like playing for the Warriors, apparently, at some point. It's like, it's a lot of atrophy. Hugo Gonzalez might play. Like, you just, and then Tatum with three question marks. And it's just, it's pretty grim.

1:15:49Bill Simmons:The good thing for them is they have the infrastructure with the style they play in the coaching staff. They have multiple guards that are going to be able to, you know, handle the ball, shoot. Jalen will take 25 shots a game. That's what I want to ask you. What do you want to see from Jalen Brown this year? What's like the Bill Simmons just, this was a lost season from a contention perspective, but we learned X, Y, and Z about Jalen Brown, and I'm thrilled about that. What does that look like? Well, I thought it was interesting. I looked at the FanDuel points per game leader odds you can bet on.

1:16:27Bill Simmons:So like Shea is plus 165, Luka is 5-1. Just who's going to lead the league in points per game? And Jalen was 50-1.

1:16:38Bill Simmons:Is it, would it be, if I told you he was going to average 32 a game next season, what would be your reaction to that? I would say that that's, I mean, 32, what did Shea average? Shea was about there. I would say that's a lot. I would say 29 would be a realistic high target. To go from 23 and 22 the last two years to 32 is even amid this new… What's the highest that he's gotten to? 26-6 two years ago. Three years ago. Yeah, so 26-6 in the 23 season. He took 20 shots a game. if you give him four more shots a game and he makes two of them i'm now at 30 i mean fifth fifth and you give him more free throws like he only got the line five times a game that you're each that should be higher too i mean look from everything we know about 50 to one's a great bet 50 to one's a great bet yeah from everything we know about jaylen brown whether he's right or wrong he's definitely going into the season going i've got this until jt comes back and he's gonna he's We've seen it.

1:17:43Bill Simmons:We saw it in the games when Tatum didn't play. And Jalen Brown's like, finally. He's like the understudy in the Hamilton production. Like, finally, I get to be the Lin-Manuel Miranda part. So I don't know. I think they could hang around with three-point shooting. And I've heard that they, oh, watch out. They're in a tank because they have their pick. I just don't think Missoula is capable of it. The man is a maniac. My worry about the Jalen Brown scenario you outlined is like the how does he get there? Is he getting there by just taking a shit ton of shots and he would end up like he averaged 30 on 44 % shooting and 31 % from three and didn't evolve as a playmaker.

1:18:22Like that's my worry about it. That's not a big worry because -

1:18:25Bill Simmons:So you want to see him like, the offense is running through him, but he's actually not like, I'm just going to shoot a shitload of shots and I'm going to actually set up my guards. We're going to play off me. I'm going to find open shooters. I'm going to play really smart basketball. I don't think he's going to turn into a 10-assist-a-game guy or even a 7 - or 8-assist-a-game guy, but jack it up a little bit. And yeah, if he's just taking a bunch of tough mid-range shots the entire season, even more than he usually takes, I'm not sure that that's what I want to see. Although he's going to have to do more shooting, obviously.

1:18:57The Celtics have Boucher and Garza right now

1:19:01Bill Simmons:as the center combo with some Keita. And the Boston, the people that cover the team think Keita's going to be the starter. I'll believe that when I see it. But if you compare them to Indiana, who lost Halliburton and Turner, I actually think Indiana is a more likely, fuck it, let's suck this year candidate, right? Jairus Walker will play. So they could maybe, he'll fill minutes somewhere because they didn't have him in the playoffs. But other than that, what else do they do? Well, they have depth, right? Like they were deep last year, so that depth will help them now. And they signed, like, you know, Jay Huff can play 15 minutes a game.

1:19:40Isaiah Jackson's coming back. Like, they have depth. Furfy. I love just saying furfy. I want furfy. Little furf. Furf. The furf man. Yeah. Furfy. And talk about a maniac coach who's going to just, like, scheme his way to 35 wins on a down year. Like, it's Rick Carlisle. Like, to me, that's the down, like, the almost boring Indiana prediction is, I don't know what their over-under is. I'd probably take the under because I just think that their entire identity is wrapped up in one guy who's not going to play. But I could see them having a down year and it being like 32 and 50 or something like that.

1:20:13I'm lower on them. I just think that what they lost is a lot.

1:20:17Bill Simmons:Who do you think has a higher over under, Boston or Indiana, for the season? Boston. Yep. Boston's 41 and a half. Indiana's 37 and a half. that's that seems right to me on both counts i would probably take the under on well we're gonna we're gonna do we're gonna do this yeah at some point um indiana 37 and a half and it could really end up being like 22 and 60 if they just said fuck it i don't think it can get they'd have to organizationally make a decision that siakam has a fake sprained ankle and you know trade mcconnell and do some stuff because I just think they're going to be tough and nasty and play smart.

1:21:00And Nembhardt and Siakam are good. That's not a terrible fallback like now we're a 22-win team.

1:21:07Bill Simmons:I mean, so they lose Halberd, right, obviously, was the top 15 guy. But they are equipped to kind of patch together some of his stats because Shepard, he'll play more. Nembhardt, McConnell, like they could kind of patch together some guard stats. The Turner thing, I don't know how they've fixed that with Isaiah Jackson and whatever. The counter to that would be Turner was terrible in the finals and was pretty up and down in the playoffs. You know? Yeah, he's generally an up and down player. I think he'll fit well with Giannis. I do like Walker. Should I buy more Walker stock? I already have a bunch.

1:21:41I don't think you need to buy that much more. If you have a bunch, I wouldn't go crazy. I'll keep what I have.

1:21:46Bill Simmons:So you think Indiana more likely to be like, yeah, let's throw this year away and wait for our guy to come back? I don't think either. No, I would say they're less likely because I think they're deeper and their coach might be more of a maniac than even Missoula is about just scheming to win every single possession of every single game. What TV shows are you watching? Other than the Mets disaster. Hey, stop. Stop now. We're not out of it yet. What are we watching? We currently, you know, I got to say, couldn't get their task. not too violent for my wife. I would say a couple of things. Number one, pacifist.

1:22:28She just doesn't like violence. It scares her. She's just out on all the violent shows. Violence and unpleasant suspense. She's just like, I'm not spending my leisure time doing that. Wow. Number one on the list right now is the Great British Bake Off. Huge fan. I've seen every season. I'm a big fan. I've a Great British Bake Off corner might replace Mets corner. If, if, if the Mets don't make the playoffs. this hurts me a little bit to say I don't know if you watched this show it was right in our spousal Venn diagram only murders in the building charm is kind of wearing off on me never got into it I think that's all we got going right now am I forgetting?

1:23:10are you a morning show family? no, no, I'm weirdly uninterested should I be interested? is it preachy? it seems preachy to me I don't like preachy

1:23:19Bill Simmons:It is a self-parody of a self-parody of a self-parody. And a very enjoyable hour for my wife and I. Lots of jokes. Okay. That's probably our number one. We're making jokes the entire time we're watching that show. Oh, you're making jokes. The show is not making jokes. No, the show is very serious. And they make decisions on the show that you just can't fathom. Speaking of funny, one of the things I just want to show to make me fucking laugh a lot. And I'm missing that in my life. I want to laugh. I won a joke show and Joanna Robinson recommended. And we did a whole segment where I was like, here's what my wife's TV taste is.

1:23:56Here's what mine is. Here are a couple of shows we really love together. Recommend one for us. And her number one draft choice was Party Down. And we did Party Down. Party Down was just rock solid. Season one's fantastic. The highs weren't that high, but the floor was high. It was pretty funny the whole time.

1:24:12Bill Simmons:Good recommendation, Joanna. The porn party episode is a personal all-timer for me. It's one of the funniest half hours of the 2000s. That's a good one. That was a good one. Yeah, that was a good show. I mean, that's a short. There's like 20 episodes and they're all short, you know? I would test drive Morning Show season one with the wife because it's also like they're doing it during this like COVID, Me Too era and it's very self-conscious about all the stuff's going and they're just clumsily blowing through all these crazy storylines. It's about a morning show, but it's a couple years behind where we are.

1:24:49Bill Simmons:So like right now they're doing the 2024 Olympics for this season. And they're kind of also going back and commentating on, and it's just, it's a must watch. I mean, I see it come up. I see it come up on the TV is like recommended for you or this and that. And I'm always like, yeah, you know, it could be. It's a mess. Could be. Yeah, that's all I got going right now. You're not a Bake Off guy? My wife likes that show. I've never been like a cooking show person. It's like taking, neither have I, and I can't cook and I don't like cooking and I sure as hell don't bake. It's like, it's just like stepping into a warm bubble bath.

1:25:27It's so pleasant. Just everything about it is so pleasant. I love everybody on the show, even Paul Hollywood, who's sort of the villain of the show. It's just wonderful. It's just a great time.

1:25:36Bill Simmons:I want to say Mina Kimes is on that show this year for an episode. I think that's the show she went on. She went on a cook it. I think that was the show. There was an American version, like an American knockoff, same franchise, like same people that maybe, that would be very, if she suddenly appears on the actual great British baking show filmed in a tent in England somewhere, I'm going to go crazy. Okay. Zach Lowe, good to see you. We have your podcast. It's at least twice a week. Sometimes there'll be emergency episodes. If Giannis gets traded to the Rockets, you'll probably hear from Zach. You can find it on YouTube.

1:26:14Just dropping that at the end of a podcast.

1:26:16Bill Simmons:Well, who knows if something crazy happens. Good to see you as always. Always fun, sir. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

1:26:46Sean Fennessey:Honey, did you invite the minions over? Well, you know how we talked about getting Wi-Fi from Xfinity? Yeah. I ordered it this morning. It was online in minutes. Then they showed up. So they just came over to use the Wi-Fi? For what?

1:27:02Better not to know. Get online in minutes with same-day Wi-Fi from Xfinity. Plus lock in your price for five years and see minions and monsters only in theaters. Xfinity, imagine that. Restrictions apply. Not available in all areas. Learn more at Xfinity.com slash same-day Wi-Fi.

1:27:17Bill Simmons:All right, I'm here with Chris Ryan, Sean Fentessy. We just did a two-hour rewatchables that is running next Monday for Redford Month. Yeah, yeah. But there was a topic I want to talk to you guys about, about Las Vegas. When did you move here? 2012. When did you move here? 2012. So there was an article today about Las Vegas is doing this big five-day sale. They tweeted out from the, this is not sponsored by Las Vegas, but a big sale, hotels, restaurants, everything off. And the reason they're doing is because Las Vegas, the tourism has really declined. And I was on a couple of different text threads about this because we all thought it was really interesting.

1:27:55Bill Simmons:What's going on with Las Vegas? What has changed over the last 30 years? What are the reasons why tourism post COVID where all this other stuff, movie theaters are doing great. People are back at sporting events. It's all normal lifestyle feels like it's back. And Vegas is in bad shape. So why? What's your theory, Sierra? Gosh, I mean, where do you want to start? I think Vegas is pretty unique in that it's one of the only places you would go to lose more money. And so it's not just the price of the hotel and the price of the restaurants and the price of valet parking and the price of everything.

1:28:31Then you are also pricing in. I might get cleaned out. And I might not be able to help myself. And if you can gamble on sports, at least pretty much anywhere, and there's obviously like friendly games everywhere you want to go, making that trip and chalking up, you know, you can either lose the flight and the hotel, or you can go somewhere nice and not have to lose thousands of dollars gambling. I think people are just making that choice. But there's also like a ton of other reasons I could think of.

1:29:01Bill Simmons:Sean, you still road trip down there to poker every so often. Do you like once a year? I do.

1:29:05Sean Fennessey:For 10 years, I went every November to see friends because one of my best friends lives there. And this is kind of related to some of my thoughts about it. I still think it's fun to go there. I do think it is a little bit hard to gamble in the way that I like to gamble there. And obviously, sports betting has changed a lot, too. So the idea of it being a destination for sports betting has gotten complicated over the years. But the thing that struck me, I'm not saying this is the primary reason, but it is a reason. when the Golden Knights went there and it started to become a destination home for professional sports it started to feel more like any other city and when I was driving in a couple of years ago and I saw Allegiant on the way in you know right when you're coming in into the strip and Allegiant is on the left there and it was a football stadium and it was like driving into Chicago or driving into Philly and it lost the kind of glamour the kind of uniqueness that made Vegas Vegas, where Vegas was really only one thing.

1:30:04Sean Fennessey:You didn't even really think about Vegas as a place where people lived when you visited. You visited and you were like, everybody here is in a hotel and we're all gambling.

1:30:11Bill Simmons:Yeah, I remember hearing somebody lived in Vegas and be like, what? Yeah. They live in Summerlin. What? It's like every day they're here. How do they survive?

1:30:19Sean Fennessey:But when a city has sports teams, it's a town. It's a residential place. You know, it's a place where there is a fandom. There is like a, there's a community of people that live there. There's nothing wrong with it being coming a community, but it feels different. It gives it a different energy. And it feels like a factor as to why it's not as unique or special to go there as maybe it was 10 or 50 years ago.

1:30:42Bill Simmons:Yeah, I have so many. I think those are both really good reasons. I also feel like because I started going there mid 90s, right? And it was not saying it was underground, but it was just you went, you shared a hotel room with two people or four people. You didn't really care about where you ate at all. It's like, let's go get two slices of pizza. Let's go. The buffet is cheap. Even if you're treating yourself, you're going to get a steak. Yeah. For people in their twenties and their thirties, the, the ancillary stuff never mattered. It was like, where are we gambling? How much blackjack are we playing?

1:31:14Bill Simmons:Are we playing poker? Are we playing craps? All your money kind of went toward the gambling part, at least for my groups or everything I saw. And nobody was ever like, we got to go to Raos tonight. I heard it's awesome. You didn't think that way. You didn't think we're going to have this three-hour dinner from 8 to 11. How about we're going to go see Adele? You know what I mean? Granted, I am in a very small giant sports fan. We would go. We really wanted to just gamble. But we never cared about the other stuff. We'd maybe ride the roller coaster once.

1:31:45Sean Fennessey:I think people would go and they would want to go see Wayne Newton.

1:31:49Bill Simmons:Older people. The people in their 20s or 30s were going for specific things. It's like, I can gamble on sports here. I can play blackjack with my friends here. I can play poker. I can play crafts.

1:31:59Sean Fennessey:Well, the other thing I started noticing probably maybe 20 years ago is that the casinos were kind of turning into malls. And so there were really these big shopping centers that were coming in there. And a lot of those spaces are really nice, but it's like, I'm not going to go to the Prada store when I'm at a casino. I'm at a casino to play cards. Like that's the only reason I'm there is to drink, see my friends, play cards, maybe swim in the pool and eat at the buffet. That's all I'm really going to do. Even as, forget about my 20s and my 40s. That's all I care about. But it is more of a like, it's kind of like a glamour, high-toned destination in a way, but it is still in the middle of the desert.

1:32:34Sean Fennessey:So it doesn't really make sense as like, why would you go, wouldn't you go to Hawaii if you were trying to have a vacation like that? Like a really expensive, nice vacation. But I think now it's like, if you want to party, people go to New Orleans or Austin or Nashville or all sorts of places. Miami kind of, you know, like has had two or three peaks in the time that Vegas has become, was the destination of all bachelor parties and going clubbing and also gambling.

1:32:59Bill Simmons:Well, now it's like there's the F1 weekend. There's the sports teams that are there. There's NBA Summer League. There's then NBA, the actual like the cup thing. And MLB is going to be there too. Big boxing, UFC. MLB is going to be there. WNBA is there. So there's sports and big stuff happening constantly, which is better if you live there than if you're visiting. If I'm visiting, and I've always wondered this, like, you know, you go for NBA cup. right and it's or summer league or summer league whatever and we we like we went there for 2018 2019 and we did a dinner right i mean you have this huge dinner you're stuffed it's not like the kind of mood you're like yeah now let's go gamble um i just wonder like did something shift where the gambling became ancillary and then the the books and the the places realized that and that's when they started shifting the odds against Blackjack 6-5 payouts for Blackjack and I just feel like it's harder to win as weird as that sounds like I have much more fun gambling in New Orleans New Orleans I feel like I might actually win in Vegas I just feel like I'm this cog in the machine that's just going to get crushed

1:34:08Sean Fennessey:I'm not really such an expert on all of the table games there but it does feel like it's easier to get crushed now than it did in the past.

1:34:18Bill Simmons:Yeah, I'm telling you, I don't think luck turns that much over 30 years. Well, there was more fun. Now it just seems like they just want you to lose money and get you the fuck out of it. I don't know if this is like, we don't have to get into a huge discussion about how much private equity is bought into these places and what kind of returns they want on investment. But I do think in the last couple of years, especially since COVID, when everything went pretty much contactless with payments, I wonder if they are pumping people more now because of like, just tap your card, just tap your card, just tap your card.

1:34:51You want to go do this, do this, just tap. And I used to be like, I remember the first time we went to Vegas together and I was like, I had money in an envelope. And I was like, if I tear this envelope open, that's it. Like that's not, that's all the cash I'm going to spend gambling tonight or something like that. And now we have kind of reached this sort of like, just forget about it until tomorrow. and maybe it's tomorrow for a lot of people. And they're like, I can't fucking afford to go to Vegas. Because the big thing about all these events in this country now, like when you go, I went to the Dodgers this week.

1:35:21It was an awesome time. Went and saw Philly's Dodgers. I got fucking pumped, man. It's like 40 bucks for two beers. Another 35 for like hot dogs and peanuts. And then it's, that's not even like parking and everything else. And you're just like - That's Blu-ray money.

1:35:36Bill Simmons:Yeah, but you're also just like - It's like seven Blu-rays. Dude, that's several hundred dollars not counting the tickets. Like that's crazy. It's baseball. Like the game's not even that long. It's a good example of,

1:35:48Sean Fennessey:I feel like Vegas was seen, especially if you lived on the West Coast as a cheap vacation, you know? And you might end up losing a lot of money. But you could drive there. But staying there and driving there and the accommodations. And now things are just very elevated. I mean, there's some amazing hotels and amazing restaurants in Vegas now. Like Vegas has gotten really, really tony.

1:36:07Bill Simmons:I mean, I'd say it's one of the best restaurant locations in the world at this point. But wasn't the whole allure for a while there? Like you go and if you're gambling, the drinks are comped. And if you stick around long enough, you'll get like a comp dinner or breakfast ticket, right? Yeah, it was just way more underground. And like the sportsbook piece can't be understated either because I don't know how many states have legalized gambling now where you can bet somewhere. And, you know, when I was the first time, I can't remember if it was 95 or 96 the first time we went. That was the number one reason I wanted to go.

1:36:42Sean Fennessey:It's like, we're going to go and we're going to put,

1:36:44Bill Simmons:and then we'll watch the game in the sports book and then we'll make the money and then we'll put that on something. And that was all we wanted to do is stay in that sports book for two days and watch all the games. And now it's like, there's nothing special about that now. People would go from March Madness or like the first week of NFL playoffs or whatever. And now it's like guys sitting at a bar, like ambiently betting women's tennis, like putting parlays on like 19 college football games on a random Saturday. I almost, when I did my second book, which ended up being about basketball, I almost did a Vegas book as my second book.

1:37:16Bill Simmons:And then I almost did it again as the book after. And I just, I felt like something shifted from the mid 2000s, even to the early 2010s where I'm like, this isn't as good of an idea for a book anymore. Vegas had like this, I used to write about it a lot. It was some of the, especially on my old website, that was like some of the pieces that really got the website kind of moving with audience. And then when I got to ESPN, same thing of like this whole scene in Vegas and just, just like, you know, basically two, two days, you have a certain amount of money. Yeah. There's, you have this anvil hanging over your head the whole time.

1:37:51Bill Simmons:You only want, you can only go to the ATM one time a day. The swingers thing where they embarrass themselves.

1:37:56Sean Fennessey:Yeah. But that was aspirational to me. Yeah. When I saw that, even though those guys were buffoons, I was like, this is so cool. They just drive there. That's amazing. I was there in April for CinemaCon and we were, you know, and CinemaCon at night is so great for me because I can just like wander around, play cards. Yeah. And we sat at the sports book, me and Craig and Amanda and Matt Bellamy. We sat at the sports book for like an hour and a half waiting to go see David Copperfield. So we're going to go see Copperfield. I've never seen him before. And it was, it was dead. It was a Thursday night in April.

1:38:26Sean Fennessey:So you've got NBA playoffs. Yeah. MLC, MLB has just started and you've got college sports on. and there were four people there.

1:38:35Bill Simmons:Yeah, I remember when they built Mandalay and Mandalay seemed like the future. You know, it had this huge sports book, big casino, just felt very modern. And you could see like all of a sudden they were, you know, I can't remember when Paris went up, but the casinos just got way better. We used to stay at Treasure Island in the mid 90s and then gradually things got better. And then there was this moment when they started the whatever happens in Vegas ads and enough people were talking about the culture of it that something really happened. I think it kind of peaks with The Hangover. In 2009, Vegas is such a big part of that movie and that's kind of the peak.

1:39:13Bill Simmons:And now if you did a movie in Vegas, I don't even think it would be important that it was in Vegas. You're like, oh, there's Vegas. I wonder whether or not there is like, if you think of Vegas as like a musical artist or a band, right? And there's always the question that they face where it's like, do you want your audience to get older with you? Or do you want to leave them behind? And if you're talking about your guys specifically, because Vegas has just been, it's not been a huge part of my life. But for you guys, it's like, there was like the degenerate gambling part. Then there was the, what happens in Vegas?

1:39:45And it's fun to do a bachelor party there. And now it's almost like bring your whole family to Vegas. But you can't really do that. Like you, I mean, you wouldn't do that. You would take them to Disney World. You wouldn't want your little kid at the win.

1:39:57Bill Simmons:You know, we did a me and Sal and our and our fans, we did a Vegas trip in 06. And it was this whole different side of Vegas where it's like, oh, they have stroller ramps and shit like that. Yeah. And it was fun. But, you know, I think these wheelchair ramps can also be stroller ramps. Right. But I think it's more fun for Sal and I, maybe not as much fun for the for the wives. But I think Vegas is a little more built toward it now. Now, there's another piece of this now about people in their 20s and 30s and what they're doing day to day and whether you need to go to a place like Vegas in the same way that you did when I was in my mid-20s in 1995, where it was like we didn't have a shitload of options for things to do other than to just go out where you were.

1:40:45Bill Simmons:It's like, whoa, we're going to Vegas? Now it's like, I don't know. I just wonder, do people in their 20s, do they want to go out and just gamble for 10 hours? I mean, I think even beyond the generalization of it, it's just way cheaper to go to New Orleans. If you were going to do a party trip of some time. Is there just more options now?

1:41:04Sean Fennessey:Is there more stuff to do?

1:41:06Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:41:06Sean Fennessey:I think Vegas has never actually had more that you can do in Vegas, but it does take a little bit of the spotlight off of the gaming. I remember very well in 2019, I had a meetup with a lot of friends in Vegas. It was basically like my high school reunion, me and like 10 guys. And I vividly remember it was like 8 p.m. We ate dinner, grabbed a drink, and we were like, let's go gamble for a few hours before we do whatever happens after that. And six of us went to go play Pi Gow and we got absolutely skull fucked by a dealer. It sounds like an amazing day. We just got absolutely annihilated. And Pi Gow, the whole thing with Pi Gow was like, it's very communal.

1:41:45Sean Fennessey:It's kind of low stakes. You should be able to sit at a pie-gout table and play for like an hour, two hours if you want, and only lose like$100 or gain$100 or whatever. And we just got our guts ripped out. And I remember feeling like maybe we shouldn't gamble for another 24 hours after that, after guys are dropping like$700 at a pie-gout table. And it was deflating. It wasn't fun. And then now, ever since then, all those guys had kids and now nobody goes to Vegas anymore. That's the other thing that happened. but if it's ever going to make a comeback it's not going to be defined as like a gambling trip I don't think it's going to be a different version it's going to be like let's go eat at great restaurants and go to the pool with our kids this pop star has a residency go see Selena Gomez I just think it has to decide is it for degenerates or for everyone you know is it for this is my secret shame or like this is what I look forward to all year it's like my weekend I think Vegas

1:42:38Bill Simmons:already decided I think that's part of the problem they want to be for everybody they want to have the best restaurants and the best entertainers. The Sphere is a huge piece of this. Now you go to Vegas for the experience of The Sphere instead of 25 years ago you went because it's like I just want to play blackjack with my buddy Jim Grady for eight straight hours and that's what we want to do. Now it's like we're going to The Sphere because so-and-so is playing there and then we're going to go to Wrestlemania's two days later and we'll do that. Chang has a restaurant there. It's just different.

1:43:09Sean Fennessey:A friend of mine is pitching a project to The Sphere right now and he was telling me about it and it sounds like a really cool thing. I hope it happens for him. But that becoming like a billion dollar industry too, it just takes all of the attention off of the other things that you think of as Vegas being Vegas. Like the idea of going to Vegas to go watch a movie in a giant circle is crazy, but people are doing it. I wonder how many people who go to the sphere or go say to a UFC fight then also gamble. Like I wonder how many, like how it's reoriented.

1:43:41Bill Simmons:UFC is interesting because UFC ends around... It's like 11? Starts 7 to 10. So basically, you're out of there. It's like 10.30 at night. So at that point, you're either doing late dinner or you're just going to gamble. But either way, it's just not what it would have been 30 years ago. Same thing for when the NBA Cup was there.

1:44:02Sean Fennessey:We need to get another U House Sal and Chang session, though, at the table. So I do feel like that's some of the all-time best BS pod content.

1:44:09Bill Simmons:That was some of the best content we've ever had. But I feel like even that feels like it's from another era. I still feel like I was at the Blue Note watching guys play when I watched him and Che. I think Vegas would probably say, this is what we wanted. We have way nicer casinos. We have a million restaurants. We have all these different teams and all these different places to see live events. We had to elevate everything we're doing. And at the same time, they're having a massive sale right now to get people to come because tourism's way down. So something got broken and I don't even really know what the answer is.

1:44:45Sean Fennessey:There are other factors. I mean, there was a terrible shooting there that happened. That chilled a lot for a little while. I don't know. It's like, I don't really believe in the younger people don't want community thing though. I think it's kind of the opposite. And gambling, like that's a fun road trip to take with your friends to go for 48 hours and go six, eight people and go have fun. but it might just be too expensive is really what it might come down to. That's what I think it is. It might just be like, I can't afford to stay at these hotels. That would be my number one reason. And it's hidden costs.

1:45:15It's like the things where you're just like, whoa, like$65 a day to a valet park or whatever. I'm sure that there are like more affordable hotels than I'm thinking of that have better deals. I'm just saying.

1:45:25Bill Simmons:That's why I led with what it costs when we used to go. And we would go four-door room. I always used to, I've told this story before, I always used to share a bed with my buddy Bish because we had mastered how to like never have our bodies touch ever. I went one way, he went the other way. But we, you know.

1:45:41Sean Fennessey:Sierra likes to go dick to dick.

1:45:43Bill Simmons:Sierra goes face to face. But, you know, all we were thinking about with everything other than the gambling was how to save as much money as possible. Like we never wanted to spend more than$10 on dinner. We're like, oh, that place has chicken. You know, it was all the money went toward not being there at one in the morning out of money while our friends were still playing, and being like, well, what the fuck am I going to do now? I'd hit my limit.

1:46:07Sean Fennessey:But you were in a strain of degenerate where it was like, this is the most important thing in the world to me. It really was. He built an oasis in the desert. He did. He became my oasis. You did. You were like Ace Rothstein in Casino.

1:46:20Bill Simmons:So you said like, you wonder if young people that they don't care about having the community in the same way. I think they do. No, I think they do. I think they do. I just think it shouldn't be too expensive. But I think they can find it in better ways.

1:46:30Sean Fennessey:Yeah, exactly.

1:46:31Bill Simmons:You can find a community on fucking online with people you didn't even meet it like us going to vegas all hanging out together and then all the stories we would have from all the crazy the dealers when the crazy person that sat at the table we would be talking about it for three weeks after now i i mean there's so many dopamine fixes you can get 2025 online and however else i don't think it's the same i

1:46:55Sean Fennessey:think you hit on something that is how do i make this sound not like i've discovered gold or something. But when I was a teenager and I'd never been to Vegas, we never took a family vacation to Vegas. I had an idea of what Vegas was like in my head. Right. And it was, it probably was more like casino, right? It was like, we're going to the Flamingo and Don Rickles is there and he's performing. The Rat Pack is around. And then you get to Vegas and it is not that, right? It's not glamorous in the 2000s and in the 2010s. Like it is a little bit more broken down and has a charm to it that you can get really interested in.

1:47:30Sean Fennessey:You can discover where are the good places to eat and where are the good places to go, what are the right rooms for the games that you like to play. And then it did start to flip I guess right around the 2010s where it started to get more elevated. And you lost a little bit of that social culture that was an interesting part of it. Conversely, if you're a kid now, you can see what everything is like online. Even just Yelp alone reveals like what those hidden worlds like when we were in the 1990s i had like encarta and that's how i learned information on my computer like that was there were no like photos or reviews let alone youtube and like tours and like the way that you can conquer like disney world now on youtube and they just show you every single thing inside of it yeah it's a good point when you went to disney world when you were five you were like is this place actually magic crucially like disney now is like don't worry about any of that stuff because if you pay enough you can skip one And I think that that is like another thing where people are like, is there any limit to how much I'll get charged to do something that used to just be you pay this thing to get in the gate and then everything inside is sort of like more or less set up fairly for you.

1:48:37I mean, things were always expensive, but I do think that there's something weird about like when you look at your bill from like you stay at one of the hotels, you're just like, what the fuck are all these like towel fees and resort fees and, you know, parking fees? and you're just like, I didn't use this parking. Like, why am I getting charged for this or something like that? There's just like a lot of crazy stuff there. Yeah, all the porn you ordered. That's right. And Sierra's like,

1:48:59Bill Simmons:and this is all part of my platform when I become the governor of Nevada. That's right. Yeah, so I don't really, I wish I had a better answer for what Vegas should do. But I think they're so far down the road with what they became. I don't know if there's a way to unwind this. It should just all be the sphere. You know, they should just build the sphere on top of it. They might just have to triple down and like definitely get an NBA team and maybe it's not a destination place as much as a place you actually live.

1:49:24Sean Fennessey:Then it's just Houston. But I think that's what's happening. Have you been to a Raiders game there?

1:49:29Bill Simmons:Yeah. I've been there a bunch of times. I've seen WrestleMania there. Is there any vibe at the Raiders games? Is there any atmosphere? You know what? I've been to the Raiders arena. I haven't been to a Raiders game. But I've been to WrestleMania there. I went to SummerSlam there. It looks like an awesome stadium. I'd love to go. Arena's great. I think a fair amount of people moved there in the last five years. I think it'll continue to grow. I'm sure in 15 years it might be like you said, like a Houston kind of place. But it's in a weird moment of transition.

1:49:56Sean Fennessey:It's so funny. My buddy Tony, who's lived there for years and years, and we went to high school together, and he's been a lawyer there for over a decade. He just got engaged. Shout out to Tony. Congratulations. He waited a long time. Love Tony. And him getting engaged is kind of like a little mini metaphor for Vegas. It's like he finally settled down. I feel like the city has kind of settled down. It's kind of like we're done being the crazy uncle. We're ready to be a normal American city. We're the dead and company.

1:50:22Bill Simmons:Also, maybe in the 2020s, we didn't want a crazy uncle anymore. I wanted a crazy uncle, but maybe most people.

1:50:29Sean Fennessey:What's the candidate for next great crazy uncle city? What could just go absolutely apeshit?

1:50:35Bill Simmons:It's pieces of Vegas, but it'll never be. Nashville, I think, has gotten a lot of steam. I still New Orleans is still awesome. That's the funny thing about New Orleans, compared to Vegas. I feel like New Orleans is exactly the same from when I was there, like for the past Super Bowl. Like it just like same kind of restaurants. The food's the same. The casino's in that one spot in the middle. And when I go, I almost feel like in a good way, I'm going back to like a time warp of like, oh, I fucking love New Orleans. When I go back to Vegas, I'm like, I'm always noticing stuff they added. You have sensory overload.

1:51:08Bill Simmons:How chaotic it was. And there's just the, every single chef has a restaurant there now, including our friend Chang as a couple. and they're just adding, adding, adding. They built a fucking F1 track. They're going to have this awesome basketball arena and on and on and on it goes. So to me, it's less of a destination and more like, ah, maybe you should just actually live there. If you live there, you're not going to gamble as much, which is why they're giving sales. That's because you turn into a Martian because it's 115 degrees there. But yeah.

1:51:38Sean Fennessey:I do, part of me... That's why I go in November though. The weather is unbelievable in November. It's also just beautiful to be there. What's your maximum amount of time you can spend in Vegas on any one trip? I mean, when we went for CinemaCon, it was three and a half days and I was like, this is a long trip. I got to get out of here. 30 hours. Like 36 hours.

1:51:55Bill Simmons:I did, I think, six days once when my first year for Page 2, right as my column was taking off, I convinced them to send me for the Rachman Lewis sequel fight. And it was 2001. I went early. I covered the fight. I'd always wanted to cover a fight like a real writer and did the whole thing, went to the fight. But that weekend, my boys came and we had all Vegas weekend. And then I stayed. Did you charge Skipper for that? It was the first time I was like, oh, I can use.

1:52:25Sean Fennessey:I got dinner. Use this Disney money.

1:52:27Bill Simmons:I can charge stuff. John Walsh is like,

1:52:29Sean Fennessey:Bill, I have some questions. So by Sunday,

1:52:31Bill Simmons:I'm seeing a Spearman Rhino charge here. What is this? By Sunday, I had bronchitis. The Pats played the Rams. It was the year the 2001 Pats won the Super Bowl. played the Rams we lost but we kind of hung and I watched in a sports book I'm just coughing up oysters and it was day five and I was like I might like die like because I had done Vegas the way you would do it if you're there for two days for five straight I couldn't handle it

1:52:57Sean Fennessey:do you feel like if one thing I have noticed is it does feel healthier in the casinos now than it did way less cigarette smoke

1:53:03Bill Simmons:yeah yeah no question sorry CR no it's alright all the guys who go for summer league who are like I've been here for 13 days. They all turn into Martin Sheen in Apocalypse Now. They're all just like, day 10. I can't believe I'm still in the fucking Aria. The horror. The horror. There is. I am really nostalgic for the old, even in that scene in Swingers. That really was what going to Vegas was like. You went in. It was super boring to get there. You got there. It was great. It was kind of low-scale, discounty. Then there was like a couple aspirational casinos, like someday we'll gamble there. I don't know if that still exists.

1:53:47I think Sean drove me out there once. And I think in my mind, I still thought, because in swingers, it's like they leave. And then, yeah, there's like the like, we're not there yet scene, but it feels like it takes place in like an evening. Yeah. And we drove out there and it was the drive back was even worse because you drive into the sun driving back. Yeah. And we just listened to Rage Against the Machine. And I was like, I'm never driving again. I'm flying next time.

1:54:11Sean Fennessey:I still like to drive. It's like a sneaky long drive, though. Yeah. Not if you're Bill Simmons. No, that's true. 329 was my record. What's your record? It's in that zone.

1:54:25Bill Simmons:It's in that realm. You like to time it. It's like I'm watching F1 right here. You get really lucky when it goes from three lanes to two.

1:54:32Sean Fennessey:That's also if you go at night, that's better, obviously. If you try to leave at 9 a.m. on a Sunday, it's hell.

1:54:38Bill Simmons:No, you either have to leave from LA like 9, 930 AM or late. 8 PM. Right. 9 PM. Or late. Because if you're hitting the traffic from rush hour, either way at any point. But yeah, well, we'll see. I'm not giving it up though. How about this? Vegas, come invite us and let us help you with some ideas. Yeah. We're available.

1:55:00Sean Fennessey:Yeah. I'm willing to take Adele's spot.

1:55:04Bill Simmons:I think if I was like, if they hired us to be like, all right, give us your pitch. What are we doing wrong? What are we missing? It'd be like, you're not giving stuff for the people in their 20s and 30s who don't have a shitload of money, who want to go for the weekend and don't want to get bankrupted because they can't afford to go to Reyes. I bet that there is like a wellness bar and hot yoga and stuff like that. But people are like, I don't come to Vegas to get well, you know?

1:55:29Sean Fennessey:You would help design the AI-assisted virtual porn chambers, though?

1:55:36Bill Simmons:yeah exactly the sports books are not going to be the same what can you do that's i mean that's like that's a loss that's over it's not it'll just never be the ringer 107 has replaced that unfortunately yeah well unfortunately for the picks we've had too uh sean chris great see you all right that's it for the podcast thanks to zach low thanks to sean and chris as well thanks to gahal and eduardo i'm going to be back on thursday with uh with one more podcast we'll do a lot of football and I got to dig myself out of a pretty, pretty, pretty brutal start to the gambling season. I'm not worried. I've been, we've been, we've had our backs a while before.

1:56:13Bill Simmons:We'll be fine, but I will see you on Thursday.

1:56:30Bill Simmons:Must be 21 plus in President's Select States for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in President D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-88-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-887-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.