An MSG Miracle, the Wemby Arrival Game, Tottenham’s Nadir, and 'Euphoria' Season 3 | With Joe House, Chris Ryan, Anthony Dabbundo, and Zoe Simmons

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25:04All right, house. The arrival. The UFO has landed. Wemby has emerged from the UFO. No, he's seven foot seven and he's here to dominate the league. I had a Tiger 97 Augusta kind of feeling watching the game last night, like that something was changing for real. The sport was being appended in a real way. And I know that's going to sound stupid if they end up losing this series, but I don't even think the winner lose the series doesn't matter. He was doing something last night that I just felt like something, the sport had shifted. And I'm not the only person to say that, but it did bring me back to Augusta.

25:44And all of a sudden, Augusta, it just felt small for Tiger. Remember? We were like, fuck, this was like the hardest, weirdest course we have. And he's like just annihilating it. What's happening? Everything Wemby was doing last night, he took out SGA. SGA was a mess. He completely took out Chet to the point that it was almost debatable whether he should be out there. He took out Hartenstein. They had to take out two minutes into the game. He changed 50 shots, 41 points, 24 rebounds, the blocks. He had a 32-footer to tie the game. He had a game-tying shot in the interregulation and did this all on the road.

26:23Did this with the fuck you energy from the MVP, not getting that. Shout out to Hakeem in 95 against Robinson. It was hard not to think about that moment. I sent you the YouTube clip last night and just backed it up in all these different ways. And I think for me, it's that he walks the walk and then backs it up and does shit that we've just never seen. And, you know, talking about arrival games, MJ's 63 point game, Kobe in the 2000 finals after Shaq fouled out in game four, LeBron in 2007, the 48 special against Detroit. Curry had that unbelievable 2013 game one against the Spurs, which everybody forgets now because there's been so many great games.

27:05But when he goes into the next round against the Spurs, I think he has, I don't know, like 10 threes or 40 plus points and just was going against this great Spurs team by himself. Felt like on that level, like it was a before and after with this game. You agree with that? Of course. And the numbers back it up. I mean, you have to go all the way back to 1970 to find a performance where a player 22 years old or younger has a combination of 40-20. That's Kareem. There's only two players in the history of the game at that age to have a 40-20. That's Kareem and now Wemby. Yeah. And you have to use as your reference point, all of the great playoff performances, the highest leverage performances to create the context.

27:59And if we didn't have that Pacers comeback last year against the Knicks, that just incredible out of the... The Halberd game. You could say like, you know, so I was in my text thread, greatest game one in a conference finals ever. I have the list.

28:18Bill Simmons:I made a list. In the conversation. Here's what I wrote down. You tell me if it beat these games.

28:27Bill Simmons:I went to this game, so I'm a little biased. 2018 Game 1 Finals. The J.R. Smith game. I think that was the last great game. That game was eight years ago. Because LeBron is going against this, you know, juggernaut all-time Golden State team. And he's basically taking it to him by himself and physically dominated them. I think he had 50 or 51, whatever he did. But Cleveland lost. Cleveland lost an OT. That's the problem. I'm just talking about as a game. That game was fucking awesome. That game was off the charts. Awesome. And it was Duran and Curry at their peak and the Warriors still really good.

29:07That game was awesome. The Halliburton miracle last year, that was a game one. And then the Iverson 2001 finals, against the Lakers. I think those are the most important four for this century for different reasons, right? Iverson really needed that one in the legacy, in the big picture. It was the only time he made the finals. He took, that was the best Laker team. And I think that was probably the second best team of this century. And he just went toe-to-toe with Shaq and Kobe and beat them, did the step over. Shaq had a 40-20 that game. We were reminded. inside the NBA this evening. So I would go those four.

29:48And then the runner-ups. The 2008 finals, Celtics-Lakers, game one. The Paul Pierce wheelchair game. So even that became the... And it was also a really good game. But just that the Celtics and Lakers were in the finals again and the hype leading up to that, I think, is there. Dallas-San Antonio, 0-3. Dirk had a 38-15. Duncan had a 40-15. And this was like, we thought this was going to be the start of a dirt first Duncan run. And it ended up for a variety of reasons, not getting wet. But that game was awesome. I don't want to sleep on that. 97 finals, Chicago, Utah. Malone wins the MVP. And then Jordan hits the game winner and does the...

30:32Yes. That's got to be on there. 95 finals, Orlando, Houston, Nick Anderson, the free throws, the four free throws. I wouldn't say that was a great game, but if you're talking drama and memory, it was one of the most memorable games I've ever seen. I remember watching it. I know right where I was.

30:48Bill Simmons:I could put myself right back there right now. Same year, Indy New York round two was the Reggie eight points in nine seconds. Okay. 92 finals, Chicago-Portland, MJ hits the six threes, 35 in the first half, does the shrug. That was a game one? Yeah. Wow. And then the 91 Finals, which is another one that's like an awesome game, but it's 35 years ago. Bulls-Lakers, Magic versus MJ for the first time. Magic hits Perkins for a three to go ahead. MJ has a jumper to tie it, and it does the Mike Breen, bah, and rattles around but doesn't go in, and they lose. And I think in the last 40 years, those are the ones.

31:28Bill Simmons:And I could go 70s, 80s, but I'm lost. Tell everybody, go on YouTube and watch some of these games. Please go watch those. But I really think this century, those four, 26, 18, Gold State, Cleveland, the Halliburton game, and the Iverson game, I think those were the best four. Usually game ones aren't great. We've had some fun, weird ones. Remember that year Phoenix beat San Antonio in like 03, 02, somewhere in there with Marbury? Marbury hit like a half-court shot. Oh, yeah, that was crazy. And it was like the one great Marbury-Phoenix moment. Maybe it was 2001. I don't remember. 2003, whatever it was.

32:01We've had some good ones. the Celtics Bulls 2009 Rose's rookie year was good but those are the best ones usually the series there's like a feeling out and this one didn't and it was one of the things I wrote down was like how's like the speed of that game compared to what normal basketball is like you watch a game like tonight and it just feels like it's on a podcast that's 1.0 versus last night the game was at a 1.5 well part of it that is because these teams are familiar with each other, this iteration of these teams and what the Spurs did that's so remarkable over the course of the regular season, they used each of these matchups with Oklahoma City as referendum games for them.

32:44This is why that organization is heads and shoulders above all others in the league. It's why the Spurs have occupied rarefied air for 35 years, 30 years, let's say. They've also had some Some fucking luck. No doubt. They won the Wemby lottery and the Duncan lottery. And the Duncan lottery. Three teams pass on Stefan Castle, including your stupid team. And then Dylan Harper at two. All that is true. And yet they've routinely maximized that good fortune. They really have. You're correct. And they jump through the opportunity door. and it's apparent that this season coming into it, they're like, every time that we play Oklahoma City, we are going to get in that ass.

33:35We're going to, it's an experiment. We're going to be physical. We're going to run SGA off the ball. I mean, part of the thing, you gave Wemby credit for some impact on SGA. The answer to that, to me, is yes, but it was a masterful game. It was everybody. Yeah, it was everybody. It was everybody. It's the physicality of those guards. They double him. They run him off the ball. And what that creates is open shots for Alex Caruso. That's fine because Caruso knocked a whole bunch of them down and Oklahoma City could have won. But I think the Spurs are like, if we lose to Alex Caruso, that's okay.

34:16We are willing to live with that outcome. That's, by the way, what the Cavs should have done today with Ann and Obi. Yeah, they... Sure. I mean, the thing last night, Wemby's point guard, because De 'Aaron Fox doesn't play, Castle mostly plays point guard. He's 11 turnovers. He played hard. He did a lot of good things, but 11 turnovers. He was trying. And the other ball handler, Dylan Harper, who had an awesome game, and I want to talk about him in a little bit, but he's 20 years old, and they're in OKC. And at one point, there's a couple of points where OKC's like, here are our best defensive guys.

34:49We're just putting them all out there. Good luck. and it felt like they couldn't start their offense with it 40 feet from the basket. It felt like they couldn't even figure out how to get Wemby the ball, even though he's 7 '7", 25 feet from the basket. And Wemby still pulled off the game with some help from his guys. There was a couple of big threes, like Champagne hit a huge three in the corner. I thought Vassell had a couple of really big plays. He did. Castle never lost his confidence, even with all the turnovers, which I really appreciated. And I thought the defense,

35:25Bill Simmons:the fact that I wrote down in my notes, they basically forced OKC into this lineup that I'm not sure they're going to not be able to do the rest of the time, where they basically had three guards with J-Dub, with Chet. Yeah. Because they have to figure out a way to pull Wemby away from the basket. So they're just going to, but like Hartenstein, I don't think can play in this series. I'm not positive Dort can really play big minutes and crunch time in this series either because whoever they have who's not a threat, Wembe's just going to guard that guy and help off him. So it's going to be a chess match, but I feel like the chess has already been played to some degree.

36:07We'll see. The questions for me is in the next game, are they going to just say Fox and Harper, shoot threes until your heart? We're going to double team Wembe. We're going to trap him. were to make him give up the ball. And if you guys hit threes, God bless. I would assume that's the move for them. OKC, I think, already made their moves by the second half of that game. I don't know. There are some things it feels like OKC can do to free up SGA. Like, you know, we're going to see some innovation yet. Like what, though? Well, I mean, there'll be some unique screening kind of situations. You know, we're going to see a version of SGA.

36:46I imagine that's akin to the way that Steph gets free. They run him off of, off of, you know, Pinda. He's running the, the entire, the entirety of possession. That's not totally his game though. I was wondering, are they going to stagger him for when Wemby's out of the game? You bring him, you try to have SGA in the 10 non-Wemby minutes and stuff like that. To just try to, that also sounds like a fine way of doing it, but what they have to get comfortable with and what SGA has to get comfortable with is he's got to be a mid-range shooter now because you just can't go to the rim. You can't get to the rim.

37:24And you can see Oklahoma City palpably, dramatically impacted. It's not just the blocks and the altered shots. It's that the lane is no longer available. So you have to become comfortable in the mid-range. And that is a version of basketball that you and I watched. We grew up with it, but it's not how they play modern basketball. Yeah, there was some good stats. D.

37:52Bill Simmons:Lee 4-3, David Lee, that's his Twitter account though, was talking about how SGA drives basically 19 times a game during the season and passes 38 % of the time. But last night, 30 drives and he passed 54 % of the time, right? So it's not a huge thing, but it felt that way watching it. Like he was trying to get to spots and there was always Wemby. I had this reader said, a listener sent this great email about how we should nickname, change Wemby's nickname to Jaws. Cause when the people decide to go in the paint, it's like when the swimmers go in the water and it's like, nah, nah, nah, nah. And they're tripling.

38:33It's just, and then Wemby's just kind of looming around with the shark costume. But it does feel like he's changed. I don't know how SGA snaps out of it but SGA just didn't seem as comfortable he actually seemed the most comfortable just doing step back threes right? so that could work that could work I mean he is the MVP of the league we are going to see some wrinkles out of this this Oklahoma City this is part of why this series feels so rich it's because the strategy element of this I expect to see something new every game We're not going to see the same game twice, I don't feel like, in this series.

39:13Well, you know what else we might see in this game, this game too, is, hey, can we start roughing up Wemby here? There was a clip that went around this morning about Chet stepping on his foot during a free throw. Did you see that? No, I didn't see it. They were next to each other boxing out, and right when the ball went up, Chet just stepped on his foot to try to trip him. And I wonder if they're going to start doing a whole bunch of stuff like that, trying to get in his head. One thing with San Antonio, They don't really have an enforcer. Well, this is like, if you're going to play Hartenstein, he has six fouls.

39:43Like that's the point of Hartenstein being on the floor. Yeah. The six fouls that he brings to the table. It just unleashes Wembe on the other end. He can just do whatever he wants. But you're right. Maybe use them to beat him up. I think ultimately Chet's going to have to figure out a way to defend him because the problem with putting the guards on him, which sort of worked and got Caruso going, but then you give up all these offensive rebounds. He had nine offensive rebounds last night. You're making it harder for him to get the ball, but then on possessions, you're giving them an extra six, seven, eight possessions a game, and I don't think that's worth it.

40:22Big picture on Wemby, we weren't there for Wilt. We were there for... We're old enough to remember 70s Kareem with the goggles, and then obviously 80s Kareem when he wasn't really the same, but And this does feel like what that must have been like when you just went to a game and what was just destroying everybody. Sure. We've had, you know, we've had some great centers over the years that we've certainly loved talking about and loved watching. But when somebody can do it on both ends like that and just completely destroy the psyche of a crowd. and you know we didn't talk about the 32 foot shot yet which was one of the great moments of the century for basketball for me like an all time holy shit from the exact Steph Curry spot I did you think it was going in because I actually did I don't know why it happened so fast it was both an ooh and I was actually I had my kid with me and I grabbed him I'm like you got to watch this.

41:27You're not permitted. This is the history. You're going to be pointing to this as you grow up as something significant. And we both, I had an ooh, I was like, when he pulled up, I was like, ooh, and I was like, oh, what are those? What are those? Unbelievable. I was looking for it because he kind of likes that shot. The problem was he was so far away. But I saw him trailing and I was like, kind of just watching it. But then when he pulled up, I thought he was going to stop and realize he was too far and he just, just fired it. Somebody took the clip of, of Steph doing it with Breen's double bang and synced up the timing with Wemby.

42:12So they're on top of each other and it's, it's really, whoever did it, extraordinary job. It's basically the same spot, right? It is. It is. You can see that's, that's what makes it so impressive. Is it like, Stefan and Wemby are in the same spot on the floor. I went back and I read the piece that I wrote after LeBron's 48 special against Detroit. And, you know, it was like this real-ass potential thing for all of us. And I thought I actually kind of liked what I wrote. I was like, all right. I kind of captured that one a little bit. But it was basically like, here's this guy with all these tools and we're hoping it's inside him and we're watching game after game, week after week, kind of hoping something like this will happen.

42:52And then it started happening. Now he's doing that against an 07 Pistons team that was getting a little long in the tooth. The league's pretty weak that year. There's only like five teams that, uh, you know, the Cavs made the finals that year with one of the worst finals teams we've had, but it was a moment and it was like a really good sign when it happened. Like, oh, this guy, he really might have it. Like, this might be like a real Jordan challenger. This is the first real sign we have that there's some real specialness here. Um, I already felt that way with Wemby. and even we were texting before the game, the MVP thing, it was like notable because of the history of what's happened in basketball with this, with Jordan and Malone in 97 and with Hakeem and Robinson.

43:34It was like, this is interesting. He's not going to like that they gave SGA the MVP. And I think that's my favorite thing about him, about anything is I think he's a real fucking dick. Like he's a competitive motherfucker. He really is. Did you see that video of him watching the ceremony? He was like pissed off. Yes. Yes. That, that, that, I mean, and, and all of those historical parallels that we just eat up. We just can't get enough. Yeah. This is what we love. And we get the benefit. I mean, there was a half dozen different ways for the Spurs to lose that basketball game. There sure was. What did you think when they went in?

44:12Including the 32 point, 32 foot three, three. Yeah. And that was the first overtime. Yeah. They were down, they were down three at that point. It wasn't even regulation. It was in overtime. I thought they were going to lose. And they needed that. I thought they were going to lose because of the minutes. Yeah. Because we haven't seen it out of him and the impact of no Fox, what that meant, you know, that the extra minutes on Harper, the extra minutes on Castle and the turnovers. I mean, what did Harper and Castle combine for turnover wise? They were discombobulated. I kept thinking back to that Denver, that Saturday Denver San Antonio game that was awesome that went in overtime.

44:55Jokic's last great game. The game that earned Jokic number two on my MVP ballot. I thought Wemby got tired in the overtime of that game. You could see it. So when I was watching the game last night, I kept thinking he was going to wear down. And he just didn't. Whether it was the adrenaline of what was going on or the fact that they hadn't played for a couple of days. but I never thought he looked that tired. The Spurs guys after the game said he had no legs. We couldn't believe he took that. I never felt like he was worn out because I think when he gets worn out, he starts falling down and you can kind of see it.

45:30I didn't feel that way last night. I felt like he showed some fatigue, but I think the Oklahoma City couldn't be, can't be, we'll see how it goes, as physical as Minnesota was. so like I you know I think it was a little bit of a breather for him against Oklahoma City because he just didn't have to take on any of that physicality I mean that the size of Minnesota was was legit and it was the only way for them to really compete was to lean on him to push him yeah to be in his space and they could rotate uh Gobert and Randall in in that role um Um, Oklahoma city doesn't have that. No, I, the other thing with one B, I, I don't say this lately.

46:19I really feel like he checks all the competitive boxes. Even when I've seen him in person, I don't feel like he's mailing it in. Doesn't give a shit. Like, I feel like he really cares and he's really competitive all the time. Honestly, the way Jordan was, that was one of the things we loved about Jordan. Jordan always cared. He always put the proper level of competitiveness and respect on the game and really just wanted to cut everybody's throat out. And it does feel like Wembe's wired like that a little bit. And for a center, that's a really rare treat. That's the accelerant. This is why we're in this position where we're having to revisit our priors on how quickly can a young team come together and really properly threaten.

47:04The history of the NBA is littered with upstart teams, upstart young teams who have the talent, but don't have the basketball IQ, the wherewithal, the, you know, the reps under these high leverage moments. And I wonder if... It's the 77 Blazers is the only team that did it. That's really it. I wonder if they were accumulating those reps over the regular season. How about this? This is what I mean. Did Wemby, was the Olympics his version of those reps? I got that email a few times from people because it's not like, oh, he's never tasted his own blood. It's like he actually did it in the 24 Olympics, right?

47:42That was the first time he took some haymakers. Steph gave it to him and he got to understand what it was like. But this is why I was wondering aloud about this idea of each of those games against Oklahoma City in the regular season as refereeing games, as measuring stick games. And they kicked ass all season long. They did not take nights off, to your observation, your point. That's right. They didn't. That competitiveness, and it wasn't just Wemby. It was that whole Spurs team because Wemby missed a whole bunch of games. Yeah, I know. And they still won the number that they won. And it was like 25 games over whatever their win total, 20 games over what their forecasted win total was supposed to be like.

48:23I said Sunday, I genuinely thought they were going to win this series. and I think Wemby, I just think we're going to be coming to grips with what's happening here over the course of the next four weeks. I was on one text ride where they were like, said like, oh, this doesn't mean he's the face of the league and doing all that stuff. And it's like, I don't know what face of the league means. I just know that this is the biggest appointment TV viewing that the league has had since Curry and the Warriors in the middle of 2010s. And this doesn't happen very often. We weren't sure if it was going to happen again with anybody we had.

48:58And we always try to put the guys that we have in position. You know, you and I love watching Joker. Not everyone loves watching him. Wemby appeals to every single person because of how tall he is and how skilled he is and how unusual he is and how much he gives a shit. And I think this will end up being probably the most watched series non-finals that the league has had at least in 10 years, you know? And it definitely passes the mom test. I'm sure whoever's mom or dad that doesn't follow sports probably brought up the Wemby game to you today, right? Or to whoever's listening. It's just the way it is.

49:36And people who missed it, they won't miss tomorrow night. They won't miss the Wednesday night game because it is absolutely appointment TV. We have the reigning MVP of the league in SGA. That's a controversial figure, you know, the worm has turned a little bit. A lot of, you got to get 50-50 on foul merchant out of SGA. They went calling him yesterday. The refs were great yesterday. I liked that on both sides. You and me both. I thought it was fine. I thought it was a very fair game. But, you know, and you put that alongside a player that none of us have seen. You had, you know, Jamal Crawford last night say, we've never seen a guy like this before.

50:20We can't really process it. I mean, I have my quibbles with Reggie Miller. Oh, really? Oh, God. Oh, God. Let's leave it alone. There's no reason. He's a nice guy. Dylan Harper. Okay. Let's do it. I watched a game yesterday with my daughter, who's coming up later on the podcast, actually, who was half paying attention all the time. And at one point, she turned to me and said, wow, you really love Dylan Harper. Is he like your favorite non-Celtic? And I said, I think he might be. I think like after Yoko Chikuri, I just love Dylan Harper. I love how he plays. I sound like Collinsworth. I just love that kid.

51:06I just love Dylan Harper. I just love that kid so much. I was just in awe of what he was doing yesterday, where they're like, hey, Fox isn't playing. We know you're 20, and we know we're going against the team that has the best collection of defensive guards probably the last 15 years. Do you think you could give us 40 plus minutes tonight and do a whole bunch of shit and maybe go ISO every once in a while and go grab some rebounds? Oh, and jump in the passing lanes and get, what do you have, seven steals? And get big rebounds in traffic. Oh, and don't get tired, even though you should be like a sophomore in college.

51:39I thought what he did was out of control. And if anything, I was texting people during crunch time in the OTs, like, you know, as the castle thing was really going sideways, It's like, why don't they run stuff for Harper? Why don't they run high pick and roll for him with a shooter? Like, I want to see. I think OKC would have trouble defending that. Heading the ball across half court in the first place. Maybe that was part of the problem. And he ended up being the guy a bunch of times. Yeah, I think they really need him in this series. But what he did yesterday, I thought I was just, I was so impressed.

52:11And I'll say this, House. You know I don't say stuff like this lightly because you've known me for almost 40 years. To me, like, we saw Kate in college. and the first five years, you and I were, I didn't even have an internet call when he got traded the first time. And you and I were so apoplectic that they traded him, Dallas. We were like, how do you trade Jason Kidd? Are you guys, like that's insane. How do you ever in a million years do that? I think of him. I think of Chris Paul in the mid-2000s. We're talking about top 50 guys ever and some of the best young guards we've seen in our lifetime.

52:49And I think he's going to be as good as those guys. I really do. I think he's going to be like a Hall of Fame, multiple first team on NBA type of guard. Well, the cool thing is, if you had Harper stock when they drafted him, an important element of what's going to propel that stock into a return on investment, you know, double digit strata is how free he can play basketball with playing alongside Victor Wembe. He's the perfect guy to play with him. He's absolutely perfect. That's exact. He only shot one for seven from three last night. I know. And it would have been, but he got to the free throw line.

53:35I mean, he's the multi-faceted, 11 rebounds. Like, how is he getting double-digit rebounds? Well, that's what the team needed out of him. and he was able to drop down and grab. And the poise going to the hole. This is what was so remarkable. Poison physicality. There you go. That's it. That's right. Exactly. He took every bump. He took every bit of... And this is why the Spurs are so live in the series. It's because I think they can out-physical Oklahoma City. Yeah. Right? They took the blow that Minnesota represented. Minnesota was a wake-up call. Game one of that series was a wake-up call for these Spurs.

54:19Welcome to the playoffs, gentlemen. Now we've virtually started. Yes. Right. And to their great credit, they recalibrated. They're like, oh, okay. Well, here's what we have. Here's what we can do. And they could handle that physicality. I think Minnesota did them a great service in preparing them for this series. And they showed up ready to get in that ass. And they did. They were in it all game long. They were physical with SGA. Now, the one thing, you said it a couple of minutes ago, will we have that whistle? What's that whistle going to be throughout the balance of this series? And in fact, for both sides.

54:56I just asked you right now, what's that whistle going to be tomorrow night, Wednesday night? I think tomorrow's going to be... The line is the exact same. It's the exact same line, which suggests that I, what? Is Fox playing or not playing? It'll be a game time decision. I would assume he's playing. I would assume he's playing. He should play. And I would assume... It would be better. I really think this series is going to get small, and it's going to be the three guards against the three guards on OKC, whoever they are, J-Dub and Vassell and Chet and Wemby. And that's just what we're going to do.

55:29And it's going to be... And OKC will probably look at that game one and say, we should have won. The Champagny three, really hard shot, shouldn't have gone in. Jalen Williams and double OT, that terrible shot he took with like 35 seconds left that kind of rush shot he had like bad shots I'm sure they looked at the tape and were like we should have won that game, that was stupid the difference is Fox is going to come back and Harper got a taste of it Harper now knows the speed he understands like a 3 hour game like that, that there's levels to it you got to save stuff I just, I look at Harper and I'm like this is the worst he's ever going to be right now right over the next 10 years, this is the worst version of him.

56:13And he's already awesome. And then Castle's 21. That's the other crazy thing. It's not, you almost look like Castle's like a 27 year old and he's 21 and, you know, botting through everybody. And he's one of the most physical guys in the series. I still think San Antonio is going to win. I thought that before the series, I think that after game one, I don't know how many games it's going to be. Um, but I just think, I hope it's seven. I want seven of these. this is an incredible matchup so the guys to watch in game two number one is Chet I think this is the biggest game of his career so far he's going to have a long career and there'll be a lot more good ones but I thought he just got his ass kicked in game one and he's got to figure out he can't only have seven attempts I need to feel you in this game I did not really feel you in that first game I felt Caruso and then the other thing which I mentioned before the series and maybe it'll shake itself out with Hartenstein not playing as much but they played 11 guys in the first half and that was a big thing I was worried about with OKC is like do they know who their best guys are?

57:20Do they know what their best lineups are? I still don't think they totally know I think they have like 8 guys they trust but I'm not sure he knows which should be where and the Jalen Williams thing is a big thing to introduce out of nowhere in the third round and he took 25 shots welcome back they were open get your 25 piece he took two more shots than SGA

57:43Bill Simmons:I'm going to read you a list of the best 21st century games and you tell me was the game we saw last night game by game you tell me if it was better or worse we just did the game ones no I'm going best games we said it was an incredible go ahead fine just trust me okay was it better than the halliburton game last year

58:13I liked it better. Does that help? That's the right answer. I liked it better. Was it better than that? You know why I liked it better? Because the Spurs were seven point underdogs missing the air in Fox. And they had every excuse in the book to not, you know, to just come into that environment on MVP night. Right. and just show a great effort and then let Oklahoma City do what they do, which is win by 10 or 12. I have it over that game. Do you have it over game four, 2022 finals, Curry, basically his legacy game that led to his fourth title? No. Much more at stake in that game. Much more at stake.

59:01The leverage is so different. I'm going to make that a TBD because if San Antonio wins this series, I think that's in the comment. I'm going to tell you right now, I'm going to have a hard time putting that game last night, a game one in a conference finals with a brand new team with the identity of the Spurs over any finals game, any legacy games. I think that's the right answer. I'm just going to have a hard time with that. Milwaukee, Brooklyn, game seven, Durant foot in the line. Damn. Pretty great game. Yeah, that was an awesome game. I think last night was better because I think the quality was better.

59:37Because that game had... Durant was great, but it had James Harden on one leg. There was no Kyrie. Yep. No, the last night was better. Philly-Toronto, Game 7. Kawhi shot that bounced way up in the air and went in. Oh. I think I got to give it to that Philly-Kawhi. I think that one was better. I think that one was better. Yeah, that one. That game was unbelievable. It was. The J.R. Smith game. LeBron's 51. We cried after that game. We didn't have any tears last night. No.

1:00:10Bill Simmons:Game one finals, I think... That's a really tough one. That was like LeBron's last stand in Cleveland, basically. That 2018? Yeah, that game one. LeBron by himself against the Warriors for two and a half hours. Last night was better. That game felt more... 2016 game, seven finals. that beats this. Come on, man. The Clay Thompson. You just had to mention it? The Clay Thompson game. Which was game six against Houston? No, game six, Golden State at Oklahoma City. Oh, Oklahoma City. Golden State down 3-1. They win game five. I said Houston. I knew it was Harden. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I knew what I was talking about.

1:00:59It was Durant-Westbrook, not Harden. We're old. We're allowed mistakes. Clay Thompson gets on the heater right as the Golden State 73 win season is about to go down the tubes. It's a pretty great game. Damn. I'm going to give it to Clay. I think that's the right answer. San Antonio Clippers, game seven, round one. I think this was better, even though that was a fucking awesome game that I went to, by the way.

1:01:30Bill Simmons:2013 game six finals, San Antonio, Miami, the Ray Allen game. There's no way that game was not better than last night. Come on. Yeah, okay. All right. You're just trying to set a context here. I appreciate it. Last one from the last 15 years. We'll have two more from the last 15 years. The Bulls beating Miami to end the 27-game win streak was my favorite game that nobody talks about anymore. That game was fucking awesome. I love the win streak. It's a regular season game. I love the win streak. I wrote like a 7 ,000-word column about the win streak. That was a great column. the win streak was awesome that'll never happen again nobody's ever winning 27 straight games ever again in the regular season I wouldn't say that load management shit's never happening again the Spurs might want to try and do that next season and then the last one I had was 2011 game 5 Dallas Miami which I went to Jason Terry hit the big 3 to end it but that was like not 1, not 2, not 3 Miami Heat just taking it on the chin in game four and game five and the crowd was delirious.

1:02:39I still think last night was probably slightly better.

1:02:41Bill Simmons:But anyway, those are the ones I had from the last 15 years. So we kind of had it slated somewhere in the middle there. The thing is, if San Antonio wins the title and this was the best game of the entire run, I think that gains in significance, right? Okay. Okay. I'll accept that. Yeah. No pushback for me on that. What was the best Tiger? Holy shit, he's in our lives forever, Masters. Was that 2000? Wow. Well, because, yeah, 2000... 2000 was, though, we're in trouble for a decade now. We're not at that point with Wemby yet. We're in the 97 Masters area of Wemby. Because it's an arrival moment.

1:03:22It's an arrival. Right? Yeah. This was the highest stakes. I mean, unless you want to use the Olympics as the highest stakes, the gold medal game, France against the U.S. Yeah, it was July 24. Yeah. That was a pretty important game for Wemby, but he's bigger now, he's stronger. Well, the greatest players ever all have a knack of coming through at a pretty precociously early age. even magic won the title when he was age 20 right yeah um bird won a title in his second year um kareem won in his second year russell won in his first year you know it took lebron a few years but that had more to do with the crappy guys on his on his cleveland team same thing for jordan but for the most part they they kind of start telling us who they are pretty early in their career.

1:04:20And I think, I think he told us last night would be my big takeaway, but the Dylan Harper thing, long-term, the fact that they have those two guys together with Castle as a third. I mean, can you believe we live in a world where they're set up as better than OKC's already? It's like that scene would have seemed impossible a year ago. Oh, impossible. You what? I don't know. I'm not sure it's better. What happens if OKC wins a series? Wemby would have to get hurt for it not to be better. What if Oklahoma City wins this series four games to one because they go on a heater? I'll take Wemby, Harper, and Castle.

1:04:57You take SGA and any other two OKC guys. Which three would you rather have? Well, when OKC has Giannis next year because of all of the picks that they have and all of the... I mean, which OKC are we talking about? That's the other question from this series. What if they... If San Antonio thumps it to them, is there some sort of move now? Do they look at this and go, uh-oh. I would. Five games to one, that's a feature, not a bug. They've played six times, these two teams, regular season and now one playoff. And it's five games to one. Like, the evidence continues to mount. I'll just put it that way.

1:05:45I mean, I know a bunch of different times when they played, both teams weren't their full, complete versions of themselves, so on and so forth. But San Antonio is hell-bent on sending a message. They are hell-bent on sending a message to Oklahoma City. They have it circled in red on their calendar, and we're just going to see. We're going to see how this plays out. Do you see yourself turning on Wemby at any point? Over the course of the year, over the course of the playoffs, Plus, I loved the comeuppance. I felt like it was a comeuppance when the Joker and Denver beat them on that incredible Saturday night game.

1:06:22It was like, this is a measuring stick game. And look how close you are. And yet, there's just one level. Extra level. That level, unfortunately, included Aaron effing Gordon not being hurt. God damn it. I'm going to be bitter about the existential crisis that Denver is in now. Because, and I mean, I'm not, I'm not, you know, denigrating Gordon. He just couldn't get healthy in the playoffs for two consecutive years now. And we're, we're, we're losing out on, on this joker moment. And that, that Denver team was supposed to be better. Cause none of us like Kareem. We can be honest about that. I've, I've, I've never, you know, it's not in my DNA.

1:07:07We respected him. We just. To hate on him. No, we, we respected him, but nobody was like, I'm a huge Kareem fan. I love Kareem. Kareem's my guy. I think there are Lakers people that would say that they love Kareem. Yeah, because he was on their team. Yes, that's right. You talked yourself into like Gilbert Arenas for four years. Gilbert Arenas was fucking awesome for one season. He sure was. No, I think usually with the tall giant guys, eventually they become the villains. You know, and this has happened to pretty much every tall guy who's ever played basketball. I don't know if it happens with him.

1:07:42Because he's so different and he's so much fun to watch and he's so competitive. I think if somebody cares as much as he cares on top of the talent, it's really hard to root against that. I don't know. I think there's an undercurrent out there. Ask Jacoby. Oh, I know there's an undercurrent. I don't know. Well, there's the xenophobia thing that's happening too where people are like, oh, what's happening? We're losing our sport to the internationals. Nah, I mean, that part I don't care about. I do like... The tough guy stuff, this is why I enjoyed what Minnesota did to him in game one.

1:08:21Bill Simmons:Yeah. And what Lou Dort's going to be doing to him in game two? Through the entire series. I mean, they baited him into the elbow to the throat. That could have been a suspension. I'm glad it wasn't a suspension. But they won two games by being physical with him, knocking him out of his cadence. And that's what OKC is going to do. Lou Dort's going to do the Bret Hart when Bret Hart put the metal vest under his hockey jersey when he was against Bill Goldberg. Bill Goldberg speared him, but Bret Hart had a metal vest on. I think Lou Dort's going to wear that tomorrow. It's going to be Ramsey. That's what the fouls are for.

1:08:59That's what the fouls are for. I can't wait. I think tomorrow, I think this whole series is like you can't miss a minute. There's no excuse. Tell your wife, tell your girlfriend, tell your spouse, your boyfriend. alone. Whoever doesn't want to watch basketball with you, they can fuck off for three hours. This is a must-watch every minute. We don't know when we're getting another series like this. It hasn't happened for eight years. Don't sleep on how impressive these two coaching staffs are and can be and the innovation we're going to see. It's the diametric opposite of what we watch with Cleveland.

1:09:34It's like Kenny Atkinson, but after a cup of coffee? I just can't. I still can't unsee that Detroit I'm so glad it's over. I'm sorry I lived through it. This is the diametric opposite. These are two staffs that are so goddamn innovative. Every game's going to look different. Jamal Mosley back in action with New Orleans. Congratulations. Jason Kidd fired today. Saw that. That was one of the more... I forgot to predict that on a podcast because the combo of Masai taking over... Masai wants his guy, which is understandable. But then Jason Kidd, who during at least the last year Luca was there, was complaining about him to everybody.

1:10:16And there's no way he didn't know about that trade. And there's no way he wasn't trying to Jedi mind trick people into trading him. And he definitely knew about it before it happened. And then the trade happened. He's like, I didn't know anything about it. I didn't know what happened. They were definitely going to Joe Pesci him at some point. Our out is like he was hoping for a front office kind of thing. Like maybe there was a job last summer. He pushed him to, you know, he definitely wink, wink the Luka trade. And then four months later, it's like, yeah, I'd love to check out this next thing.

1:10:48That was definitely one of the possibilities out there. Well, maybe the Portland guy will hire him at a discount because he's already getting paid by somebody else. That, that, that guy fired 70 people today. I saw that. Like what the fuck is going on? Like what, what, what is this league? The, the, the, three most recent owners. Now, you can take Ishbia and say, okay, classic new owner syndrome, came in, tried to make a splash, tried to throw a team together and build excitement. I want the best players. He hired two consecutive coaches with some pedigree, guys that had accomplished some things in Vogel and then Bud.

1:11:32But, you know, Ishbia... He spent money. He was just misguided. And then he listened to good basketball people and the team that they feel that the season was like, okay, this makes sense. That's competitive. It's like Vivek. The Dallas... It's just like Vivek. The Dallas situation with those people and whatever scheme that they have up their sleeve with that we want the casino and... Yeah. You know, we sanctioned Nico getting rid of our best. The antagonism towards the fan base. And then this fucking guy comes in to Portland and he's like, I'm not paying splitter. He coached this team to unprecedented outcome.

1:12:15They made the effing playoffs. And then you know what? Oh, congratulations, playoff team. I'm getting rid of two thirds of the infrastructure that we have here in a city that's a it's a captive audience, right? The only other pro, they have the women's team, the women's WNBA team. Selling out. They have a soccer team. They have a soccer team. So, you know, like the Trailblazers are tied to that community. And by the way, that community is subsidizing your fucking stadium, bro. The state and the city approved, you know,$350 million of renovation. And he's going to come in and run the organization like what?

1:12:58To what end? his hockey strategy. His NHL strategy. He's trying it out. I don't know what he's doing. I don't know. I don't understand why you spend this much money on a team and then you try to cut costs all over the place. It's so weird to me. What message are you sending to the fans? What's the purpose of doing it? There's a social contract here. Yeah. It's not a company. Go ahead and run it like a company. You're asking people to pay their money. The revenue isn't... Well, this is what the Bulls do. He's looking at what the Bulls do and it's like these dumb asses are paying for their tickets every year.

1:13:32Maybe I'll do that. I won't pay the luxury tax. I'll save money all over the place. I'll be profitable. It's very cynical. The built-in subsidy that comes from the national TV contract, they're all buoyed by it. The franchise is only going to move in one direction because these rights continue to go and we'll see what packages the NBA innovates itself into in terms of streamers on whatever the cup and these sets of games or whatever over the next 10 years. But the$80 billion, or what is it now? $70 billion that's left, $65 billion that's left on this rights deal ensures a trajectory for the value.

1:14:10And he paid what he paid. They got a valuation out of it. He was a good soldier in that respect, right? What was the valuation? $4.5 billion. Well, that's what he paid. I don't know if it was the valuation. Yeah. Right, exactly. But that's the problem. All these people are spending that kind of money, but if the team isn't profitable, then they have to zag the other way, which raises the question, why did you pay for the first place? Yeah, and setting the floor for the expansion teams that we'll see if they get the money or not. We have to go. We have to go. On that note, congrats on the most boring PGA tournament we've had in a while.

1:14:48Made up for it by Wemby. Great winner, Aaron Rye. Everybody's the people's champion. People's champion. Great guy. There you go. House, you're the people's champion. Thanks for staying up with me. We're going to take a break. We're going to come back with CR, Chris Ryan, Anthony Dabundo. We're going to talk some soccer next. So all playoffs long, I've been looking through the lines, the props, the futures, everything.

1:15:11Bill Simmons:Sharing my favorite picks from FanDuel Sportsbook on my Twitter feed. I share a lot of times a straight up bet, parlay. I'll do some add-ons. And I'm looking at this game two, OKC San Antonio. I think there was some really instructive lineup stuff that my guess is OKC is just going to have to go smaller. And then conversely, San Antonio might have to play more guards as well. So I want to try to figure out the right kind of same gamer that steers towards some of the shorter players, shall we call them. So I will have a final pick on that before game two on my Twitter feed. Still debating who's going to win.

1:15:53I think every one of these games is going to be close. You look at game one, if Caruso doesn't hit, you know, 10, 10 shots, he makes like six, seven threes. If he doesn't have basically the shooting game of his life, I think San Antonio would have won that game by 20. And that was with Castle turned the ball over 11 times, no Darren Fox. So I feel like all these games are close or, or, or San Antonio is going to win. So I'm probably leaning San Antonio plus the points.

1:16:18Bill Simmons:When I bet, I bet with Fandle, a brand I trust, it's easy to build my NBA bets on Fandle because I know I'm getting great odds, payouts on my parlays, boosts every day. I'll get my winnings instantly. FanDuel, play your game. This episode is brought to you by America's Cookout Classics, Heinz, Kraft, and Oscar Mayer. This summer, we're celebrating 250 years of America Cookouts with all the classics. Heinz, Kraft, and Oscar Mayer. I love hot dogs. Anytime it's a cookout, you have to have multiple kinds of hot dogs. I need a different kind of food. Some people like the burgers and the turkey burgers.

1:16:53Bill Simmons:Gotta have the right playlist in place. Gotta grill some vegetables. But for the most part, you really need the hot dogs. And I need multiple types of mustard too. Make sure to top the burger with only the best Heinz ketchup and Kraft singles. I'm a ketchup and burgers guy. Dress up your sides to impress all summer long with Kraft Real Mayo and Kraft dressing. No matter how you cook out, you'll find the same favorites on every table. Heinz, Kraft, and Oscar Mayer. shop at your local retailer. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. For small business, every hire matters, but the time and resources required to hire right are limited.

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1:17:59Bill Simmons:Hire right the first time. Get started by posting your first job for free at linkedin.com slash Simmons. That's linkedin.com slash Simmons. Terms and conditions apply. All right, CR, Chris Ryan is here. Anthony DeBundo here as well. You can hear him and listen to him and watch him all the time on the Ringer Gambling Show. and this is his time because basketball NHL playoffs, tennis, although we lost Alcaraz for Wimbledon today. Wimbledon. World Cup's coming. Champions League. And then I just have so many soccer questions that I know nothing. So I'm like, I'm just going to bring two smart guys on the pod who follow soccer and they're going to tell me stuff.

1:18:37Let's start here. Tottenham might be out of the Premier League. My team. I had my second kid and I just, I fell off with them and I apologize. So they lost today. Explain the stakes to Bundo on Sunday. Walk us through everything we have to look forward to. When is this game going to be on? What's going to happen? Can I wager on this? Walk us through it. So Tottenham are two points ahead of West Ham with one match to play. And all 20 teams play simultaneously on the final day, 11 a.m. Eastern, so 8 a.m. Pacific Sunday morning. A little coffee and football. Tottenham are at home against Everton, who have nothing to play for, but I'm sure would love to play spoiler.

1:19:21West Ham host Leeds, who also have nothing to play for. Tottenham just need to draw. If they draw, they will be safe. However, if they lose and West Ham wins, then Tottenham, one of the 10 richest teams in the world, one of the six richest teams in England, and one of the biggest clubs and historic clubs in the sport will be relegated to the second division, which as a Spurs fan myself is an existential crisis that I've never felt as a sports fan in my life. our American teams have bad years, we're like, okay, we'll get them next year. This is not something I've ever experienced. So now I'm kind of terrified.

1:19:54So CR, what's the history of this? What's the worst example of this ever happening? Honestly, well, one of them is Leeds. So Leeds, like who flew too close to the sun about, I guess it would be back to 20 some years ago, went down and it took them forever to get back up into the Premier League and really have only like fully stabilized themselves as a Premier League club in the last couple of seasons. The one silver lining to this that I would give to Bundo is that we have recent history with clubs like Aston Villa and Newcastle going down and then coming back up. Tottenham has like too much money to fail.

1:20:29Ultimately, like they'll lose some really good players. It's going to be tough that they have essentially the crown jewel stadium or one of them in the entire country. And they're going to be hosting like really small clubs if they go down. But I don't think it's done deal yet. When I watched West Ham, the last West Ham match, I was like, that club looks fully on its knees. But Tottenham really needed this one today, and I think it's probably all the more painful that Chelsea beat them today. So this is as much drama as we could possibly get on a Sunday, other than if the actual title was at stake.

1:21:04Yeah, it would have been cool if City had won today just for last day final stakes. But yeah, Arsenal is now officially the Premier League champions as of today. which is an even bigger buzz kill for us as Spurs fans. Your biggest rival could win the league and you could get relegated in the same year. It's like the worst year imaginable for us. So Dabondo, what is the NFL NBA equivalent of this? Everything that's happening right now. Would it be like if the Sixers were in danger of getting relegated? Like how big of a team are they? I don't even think there is a comp. Like I was thinking like the, the New York giants, maybe it's not the Cowboys, but like the Giants or the Chicago Bears.

1:21:45Just being out of the NFL for a year. It would be honestly a good one would be the Red Sox have to go to AAA baseball for the season while the Yankees are coronated as World Series champions. Oh my God. I can't even imagine. For Arsenal and Tottenham fans, that's what the rivalry is, except it would be like if they were in the same city and they just hated each other. If they were the same part of the same city. So from a bragging rights standpoint, can you come back from this? No. Yeah. It would take multiple generations. I mean, look, Arsenal had a holiday that they used to call every year St.

1:22:22Totteringham's Day. They would celebrate it every year when they finished above Spurs. And for 20 straight years, they did. And honestly, as a Spurs fan, the year we finally broke that, it shouldn't have mattered, but it really did. We finally were able to have a run of dominance. And for five or six years, Spurs were the best team in North London. That has dramatically flipped now the last three or four years where Arsenal's taken back control. but the odds of you know Tottenham haven't been relegated in this era of the Premier League it hasn't happened to the club since the 70s and then since the Premier League was founded in 92 they've never been relegated so this would be yeah about as bad as it gets and also a huge deal like like CR said you don't know what the team looks like next year like they're not going to be able to recruit players they're going to lose all their good players if you're a good Tottenham player why would you want to stay when you go play for another better team uh they it creates a bit of a, you know, snowball effect down the hill here that could happen for the club.

1:23:12I'm so fascinated in this and I wish I had gotten more fascinated sooner because I would have really enjoyed the, I first remember mid season, like, Hey, they might get relegated. It's like, there's no way they've way too much money. But to be in that crazy stadium, they have playing, playing secondly games. I don't even, I can't even, it breaks my brain much like Wemby's 32.3 foot three broke my brain last night. You know, and it's not dissimilar from that where it's like a great reminder of why sports is just amazing to watch. Where it's like, for a couple of years, it felt like maybe the gap was getting too wide between championship and Premier League football.

1:23:49The money was getting too distorted. And you'd frequently have teams that came up and went right back down. And in some ways, some teams actually like modeled their success by like getting up for a season to get Premier League money, getting the parachute payments going back down, that it was its own kind of money ball in a sense. There are clubs like Ipswich or West Brom who might even have said, oh, this is our model for our success. It's not supposed to happen at Tottenham. Tottenham was, a couple years ago, knocking on the door of the top three, four in the country. And they built this enormous stadium and mortgaged a lot of their future on this stadium.

1:24:28And now they're going to have to figure out a way to pay for it, with like no walk coming to town. Unbelievable. They've also financially built a team like around the club. Everything off the field about Tottenham is great. The books look great. Everybody's happy with the business, the stadium, all that stuff. And it's come at the expense of they had the same guy running the team, Daniel Levy, who's been running the club for 25 years. He just departed. The club became so big to the point where he wasn't doing a good enough job overseeing the actual soccer team, you know, the buying and the selling of the players.

1:24:59and they just let the transfer strategy completely rot. And they embraced a bad kind of analytics that got them into a lot of bets on a lot of players that didn't have upside that maybe they thought they did. And now they're left with a pretty rotting core of untalented young players. So is there a villain? Like who are the Spurs fans? Who are they mad at? You know, they would probably point to, I think some Spurs fans would probably point to Thomas Frank who managed the club at the beginning of this season and was a really heralded hiring. He had come over from Brentford. He played smart football, which was tactically astute.

1:25:38And he had Brentford, it was a really pretty small London club punching way above their weight. And I think people thought it was a pretty logical hire. And it just went so disastrously and so poorly. And then, Stefano, who was the manager in between Frank and Deservey? Yeah, Igor Tudor. That's right. Very short-lived run. This guy who's supposed to be basically an emergency room surgeon and his expertise is to keep them up. And he shows up and I think he was gone, what, in 19 days? How long was he there, right? It was less than Liz Truss. I think it was like 40-something days. Yeah. This is one of the first Liz Truss mentions on Bill's pod.

1:26:14This is great. And now they've got this guy, Roberto DeZerbi, who came over from... He was coaching in France at Marseille. And he plays really electrifying football, but it just might be too late. And these guys are coming in. It's like hiring a coach in any other league midseason. It's like you're not practicing all the time. You've got games every three days, pretty much. and now it's really just a like all hands on deck. Sunday is going to be nuts for that. So what are the stakes for the players on the team, right? Because if this happened to like, I don't know, the Chicago Bulls, Josh Giddey would care that he was down in the G League for a year and he would have no way of getting out of his contract.

1:26:54Can all these guys like get out of their deals? Like what happens? That's the thing. It's a little bit of a black box. You don't really know. So now a lot of the lower ranked teams, when they sign contracts with those teams, the players will get some kind of relegation clause. But, you know, when you're negotiating with Tottenham, are they still making sure to, you know, cross the T's and dot the I's to make sure that there's clause in there? So we don't entirely know yet. It's not entirely public. Just how many players can leave. However, they do have still multiple world-class players. Christian Romero, who's going to start for Argentina this summer.

1:27:28Mickey Vandeven, James Madison, who's been a Premier League champion in the past. There's plenty of players in this team that could go and play in other Premier League teams or other countries and be very, very successful there. So those guys are going to want out and you can't just hold them hostage. So it's going to be very fascinating to see what happens this summer. They're also going to want to sell high on whatever. I mean, if you call it selling high because they've been relegated. So their value on a player for player basis is probably lower than it's ever been. But they'll probably try and sell high to like mitigate some of the financial losses they're going to experience.

1:28:05From having no fans for a year? Well, I... And the money, the TV money. Yeah. There's something to be said for... I've seen... There is a history of teams going down and like it's almost like a cleanse. You know what I mean? Like we have to get all the bad blood out. Maybe we get some of these contracts out. like we're going to immediately be these runaway favorites to go wire to wire to win the championship next year. I mean, Tottenham in the championship is insane. So I would assume that they will probably have a pretty glorious run in the championship where they kick ass all season and the fans, the ones who show up, I don't know if they'll be like a full capacity Tottenham Stadium, but it'll be like fun.

1:28:48You know what I mean? It's just going to be weird because you're in the championship. It'll be nice to win again, you know? Yeah. so this is Red Sox and then AAA yes basically but you did ask Bill like who is at fault here Daniel Levy is the first name Johan Long who's the new sporting director he's the second name but this is not a one year issue and I think that's the one other problem they finished 17th last year right they had the most bizarre season where Ange Pastakagu was their manager they finished 17th and they were never actually in danger of getting relegated 18th is relegation because the gap was pretty big but they barely won any games the second half of the season they put all their eggs into the Europa League, which is a secondary competition.

1:29:25They won that. They won their first trophy in 18 years, 17 years, last year. And then they had to make a decision on the manager. He just won you your first trophy in 17 years. But you were awful most of the season. They fired him. And a lot of people had mixed opinions on that decision. He's probably looking down smiling at the moment at the fact that he might be relocated. And it's Postacoglu. So for the people that don't know this, that are listening, I wrote a whole giant column about trying to pick up Premier League team. I think in 07. It was before my second kid was born. And I really tried to get into it for a couple of years.

1:30:01And I watched a lot of soccer. My daughter started playing. And I actually did follow it. And then I just couldn't keep up. There was too much sports. There was too much parent stuff. It is funny, CR, that I picked what seems to be the perfect team for me. I think I really would have enjoyed this Tottenham ride the last 20 years. I would be losing my mind right now if they're about to get relegated. Yeah, you should also maybe have chosen Liverpool in the first place so you could see where all of John Henry's money was going. Yeah, true. So that was the runner-up, but I think they had had a little too much success when I was trying to figure it out.

1:30:33I wanted a team that they were going to rise up and exercise demons, all this stuff, and it just didn't happen. Yeah, there's nothing like Rafi Devers getting traded and me being able to text you and be like, thanks again. Yeah, seriously. It didn't really work out, though. Liverpool just spent the most money they've ever spent on one player the same week that Rafael Devers was traded. Unbelievable. That's why we all want him to sell. So West Ham, what is the NFL-NBA equivalent to them? Like mid-level? That's a good question. I think of them more like a Chicago Bulls. They are a historically really well-supported club.

1:31:11I don't even know if they've ever... They never really had a Jordan era, although they have been great in the past historically. but they have moved into the London Olympic Stadium out of Upton Park which is where they used to be they moved into you know this giant cavern of a stadium and have been pretty bad for the last couple of seasons I think did they they made some noise in the Conference League to Bundo I can't even remember they won the Conference League a few years ago the third tier European competition below the NIT level tournament in Europe but if they go down it's actually actually equally catastrophic.

1:31:48I mean, their owners are embattled. They've got a lease on this stadium that their fans don't like going to. And they don't have nearly the talent pipeline. I don't think the Tottenham doesn't, you know? No, they don't have the resources either. I mean, they're a mid-table financial club with more history than that. But you mentioned the stadium thing. I went to London Stadium last year. It is not a very exciting place to watch a game. They don't get great crowds. The noise is kind of just... It's got a running track. that separates the stands from the field. So it's just like, yeah. Oh my God.

1:32:20I went to that stadium for the 2012 Olympics. I can't believe that that's where they play. Yeah. And Upton Park was famously very loud and a tough place to play. And they just haven't had that. And they've done a similarly bad job with squad recruitment. They've recruited a lot of players that don't really fit together and then tried four different managers and none of them have worked. But since David Moyes left, it's been a steady decline. So this was the biggest Premier League story this year. Was there something else? I mean Arsenal winning the title for the first time in 18 years 22 years I think the reason why maybe people who are outside of the internal like the Arsenal fandom I was just recording wait a second with Concepcion and he was saying that he was going to London soon and I was like oh for the parade he was like what do you mean I was like Arsenal just clinched the title and he had kind of a stroke when I told him that but you know for Arsenal fans I think it's been incredibly rewarding.

1:33:15And I used to have a lot of affection for Arsenal as like a neutral kind of like, I liked watching them play. But this season has been pretty... It's kind of like what happened to the Thunder where it was like they were everybody's darlings a couple years ago. Oh, are they flopping? No, but they've scored a quarter of their goals have come off of quarter kicks. I have a comp, CR. I have a comp. And a lot of people in my community got mad at me for this. They are the Eagles. Oh. They are the Eagles. Wow. like the 2025. Yeah, they literally are essentially boring to watch. They win with their elite defense and their goals this year, like the main difference between them and their main title contenders was that they mastered the art of the set piece and they built what's called a meatball where they just like block the goalie out and then they send the ball in and they're bigger and taller than everybody else.

1:34:07So they just score all these headed goals of set pieces. And look, credit to them. Don't hate the player, hate the game. But they're not a fun team. watch. It's like when you watch Caruso and Dort foul four times in a possession, it's like, well, you can only really call one foul, right? So we'll just do it everywhere. Well, CR, you know I'm a big set piece guy. For real. I really feel like it's the underrated part of soccer. The czar of the set piece? Listen, my daughter who's coming up later on this pod, it's been 17 years of watching her on soccer teams, and as you get older, there are always these teams that's like the secret sauce, and they figure it out and they get like one free kick goal, one corner kick goal and they win 2-0 and you're like, what just happened?

1:34:47We dominated possession the whole time. Anyway, I like the set piece. That's Arsenal and that's honestly, it's creating a larger question about the World Cup this summer too. How is that going to be officiated? Because the ball was in play less this year in the Premier League than it's ever been. Set piece goals were up. It's not even just corners and free kicks now. Teams have guys, Brentford has a guy whose main job is that he can throw the ball over his head 40 yards. And like, they just make sure to bring him in so that he can, you know, whatever side of the field they're on, he comes in and throws the ball 40 yards into the penalty area.

1:35:19And then they just scrum around. It's not the most exciting. When you think of the beautiful game, you're not thinking of that. Yeah, I think for a lot of people watched the Premier League this year and were like, eh, like there's something kind of missing here. And then we had a Champions League semifinal between Bayern Munich and PSG that happened a couple weeks ago. Electric. It was like shooting like drugs right into your carotter artery. It was like, I was like, oh, I've missed this. This is what this sport's supposed to be. This is so electric. And then you go back and watch guys who are just basically fouling each other on set pieces on their way to a title.

1:35:55It's kind of a bummer.

1:35:56Bill Simmons:So Champions League, the final. Tabundo, did you make a pick yet? Yeah, it's funny. I think it's a toss-up. And the betting odds have PSG as a favorite. This is the classic clash of styles. PSG have way better attackers. But when they played last year, Arsenal was right there. I think Arsenal's very alive to win it. They're not, again, it's not the sexy pick. Even Victor Wembenyama weighed in. He was making fun of Arsenal's play style. Said, of course, PSG. Of course, he's French. But he was saying, you know, nobody wants Arsenal to win except for Arsenal fans. It does feel that way. As like the numbers nerd, though, I do think they're pretty even teams.

1:36:32CR, Premier League title and Champions League in the span of a month. That's impressive. Yeah, it would be really like a really significant achievement for them. And for Arteta, the Mikel Arteta, the manager for Arsenal. It's been the other big headline coming out of the Premier League season. If since you asked like that a couple of minutes ago is this we found out is going to be the last season that Pep Guardiola manages Man City. So he's been there for what is it? 13, 10 years, something like that. Like he's won an obscene amount of titles like in terms of Premier League titles, FA Cups, Carabao Cups over that time period.

1:37:08and it kind of marks the end of an era in the Premier League. Do we like Arsenal fans? I love many Arsenal fans. Jeff Chow's an Arsenal fan, right? Ian Wright is an Arsenal legend. What kind of personality type is an Arsenal fan? Are they the most popular fan base in America? I think there's a huge crossover between Arsenal and Knicks fans. Oh, that's enlightening. That makes sense. I feel that too. Who is our least favorite fan base right now? well my answer is still going to be Arsenal that's because my phone has been just off the hook and what am I supposed to say I picked them before the season I told you guys it was going to happen you can't throw it in my face they still will of course as they should what about UCR what's your least favorite fan base I think as a Liverpool fan Manchester United fans are my least favorite fan base I remember when I was doing that exercise I really was intrigued by Newcastle but part of the exercise was I need to go if I go overseas for a game, what would be a fun trip?

1:38:12In Newcastle a lot. But I really liked how kind of tortured. There's a fair amount of speculation. So Newcastle in the intervening years, they were heavily invested in by the Saudi PIF. And now people are speculating that something similar could happen to them that happened to live. Oh, yeah. Well, it won't be as catastrophic probably, but they are looking for outside investment. It looks like they are trying to unwind their sports position. World Cup starting, what are we down to? A month? Less. Three weeks from Thursday. Dabundo, this is the greatest summer of your life? I'm very excited. The greatest sports year of my life.

1:38:54I was talking about this with Shield a couple weeks ago. We just had the PGA at Aronomic. I was down there on Sunday. We've got All-Star Game in Philly this year. It's a great year for Philly. But then, yeah, the World Cup, the Winter Olympics were great. I'm not sure we'll have a better sports year. However, that could change on Sunday. If Tottenham gets relegated, I do not feel like this is the best sports year of my life. Have you checked any of the resellers to see what those World Cup tickets are going for in Philly? They're dropping. Are they dropping? They are now. Okay. I mean, we didn't get the best slate.

1:39:24Have you looked at the Philly slate, CR? Yeah, it's not that great. It's not the sexiest slate. Ivory Coast, Ecuador. That's going to be like the dark horse battle. But other than that, we've got a pretty mediocre slate. Dabundo, you know about CR, right? World Cup Bigamist. Leading two separate lives. Like those Lifetime movies where the person has the separate family in another house. What would be my Netflix title for you? World Cup Bigamist. That would be it with a picture of you with like a jersey that has two different logos on it. That's right. So who did you root for on Black Friday in 2022?

1:39:55I can't recall. Did you give a nice little golf clap when it ended in a draw? Honestly, he's not going to say, but he's like probably 60-40 England. Honestly, it's not that hard to be a 60-40 English fan. I don't really like the USMNT, honestly. That's what he's talked himself into is, I don't like how we're run. I don't like our style and country. I don't like our youth program system. I'm rebelling against this. My father was English. I was introduced to the game through his perspective, through his lens. I always enjoyed the drama around the England national team. I support it. You don't have to apologize to us.

1:40:33But when you're a sports bigamist, there's always a chance the two teams are going to play and you're going to have some real reconciling to do. I don't think that would be this year because I don't think that's going to be a problem. I don't, it doesn't seem like, uh, I saw Rob Stone this weekend, actually, who's obviously have been involved in the world cup. And I was like pushing him to get me excited about the American team. And he tried, I felt like he was going through the motions and it just feels like, uh, even though everybody seems to agree it's one of the more talented teams we've ever had and we have all these good American soccer players.

1:41:07Nobody seems to think they're going to do that World and World Cup. So you agree with that, Dabundo? Well, I will say they got some bad news because their best center back went off injured for Crystal Palace over the week. So if he's out, they have no good center backs. They're already at a problem where they only have one. You need those. The second one is going to be 38-year-old Tim Ream who's looking a little old for MLS. And so So the defense looks problematic. The goalie situation is the worst. It's been my lifetime. And the defensive situation looks bad. However, the good news is their star attacker, Christian Pulisic, he has not scored yet in Serie A in 2026.

1:41:44So he's doing great too. A lot of excitement for Team USA at the World Cup. Brutal. CR, who do you think is going to win? Do you have a pick yet? You know what? This is one of the hardest ones for me to pick in a long time just because of the unique nature of like playing outdoors in America in the summer is going to, I think, sweat down some of the veteran teams, you know? So I think I am leaning France, but I don't, I don't really know. I mean, France is just so talented from like one to like, they could, a second team France could probably make it to the last four, you know? So, DeBundo, that's who I was looking at, too, because I think Wemby's going to win the NBA title.

1:42:28And I'm a big believer in the cluster theory and him winning the title on American soil, followed by France, followed by all of us wondering how we let this happen with France. And we thought we got rid of them a bunch of times over the years. I made fun of France on a pod. I got a long email from somebody who's like, hey, we've been there for you for like seven wars. What the fuck? Yeah, Lafayette. That got really, really bad. Lafayette did not all that for nothing. So, sorry. But yeah, I do wonder if there's a cluster theory. Who do you like for the World Cup? I mean, if you just lined up the team, France is the most talented.

1:43:00Like, I don't even think it's debatable. And by the way, if you're doing narratives too, Kylian Mbappe, talk about a guy who kind of needs a big World Cup. Yeah. Because PSG might win a second consecutive Champions League since he departed. Ultimate Ewing theory. And Real Madrid is exploding, like, on his watch right now. Yeah. There are 40 million signatures from Madridistas. to get him out at Real Madrid. They're not very happy with Kylian, even though he scores a lot of goals. But yeah, I mean, France is the most talented team. Spain, you know, Laminia Mall is their best player. He's not going to be healthy for the start of the tournament.

1:43:34He's got a leg injury that he probably won't be 100%, and you never know with those. I actually like CR's England a lot. I like that they have a real manager who has tactical know-how this time, unlike Gareth Southgate. But again, do I trust the English in the American summer to not wilt? It's also just going to be like, it's going to be quarterfinals, semifinals, and it's a penalty shootout. And then it's just, it's hard to project out when you know that's looming. I think that there's a couple of interesting storylines going into the cup. One of them is, DiBondo just alluded to, that there's a couple of really good managers working in this one.

1:44:09Obviously, Pocatino is managing the USMNT. He comes from, among other places, Tottenham. Carlo Ancelotti is managing the Brazilian national team. And I think this is his first time as an international manager, but he just wins shit a lot. And I would keep an eye on Brazil, even though they've got kind of a chaotic roster. And Thomas Ducal, who's managing England, is pretty tactically astute. So there's a lot of interesting stuff happening in that department. It's probably the most talented group of managers we've ever had at a World Cup. You don't often see a lot of the elite club guys go do international.

1:44:45And a lot of them are just like, yeah, I'll go take my shot at the World Cup. Why not? Any weirdness for England considering it'll be 250 years since we sent them the fuck out of here, CR? Sent them packing? Think it'll be weird to come back on an anniversary or no? That never comes up. It's not going to come up in the pregame. What if they play on July 4th?

1:45:04Bill Simmons:Like, they're definitely losing, right? Yeah, they'll be in the back of their head, you know, when we push them out to Bundo. Can you give us a dark horse, please? US is 55 to 1 to win the World Cup I would advise people not to wager on that no please do not bet that underdogs never win actually win the World Cup there's only 8 countries that have ever won it 7 of them are in this tournament Italy who I guess would be my second country they didn't quite make it once again but Ecuador is going to be my team I love this team they were actually better than Brazil in World Cup qualifying they have 3 or 4 guys who are mainstays on Champions League teams 80 to 1 to Bundo yeah I don't think they can win it, but like, you know, they're in a group with Germany.

1:45:43I think they match up pretty well with them. Ivory coast. Like that's going to be a really fun underrated group. And I think nobody's going to want to play them because they only gave up. I think it was five goals in 18, uh, South American world cup qualifying matches. So elite defensively, not a ton of goals there. So probably low ceiling, but I think they can make a run. They're not that different from what Morocco did, uh, a few years ago in terms of like having a handful of really good players and a good system and a good defense. It would have been funny if DeBundo's like, you know, I'm looking at Sweden, really well-run country, really have liked everything I've heard about those guys.

1:46:20I don't like the Swedes.

1:46:22Bill Simmons:Oh! As a dark course? Yeah, what do you got for a dark course? I love the Swedes as a people, but not as the soccer team this year. You know, Netherlands at what are they, plus 2 ,000? Yeah. I mean, that's interesting to me. They have a lot of really nice players. They tend to burn quick and then flame out at crucial moments in tournaments, but they have a really solid squad. So I think that's a nice one to look at. I'm a little bit Eurocentric when it comes to the World Cup kind of favoritism, though. It's hard for me to see Argentina, for instance, at plus 900 getting back into it here. So as it stands now, I'm looking at the Netherlands.

1:47:00So eight countries ever and one is not in. Yep. That's Italy. Three straight World Cups our Italians missed. I want to do a 30 for 30 about that Netherlands team in the 70s and we never got it together. Oh, the Johan Cruyff? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the Argentina story. the 2000 Steve Nash sons of the 1970s, basically. And we were talking about that back in Berlin. I remember that. Yeah, we always circled that idea. We never got there. All right. Well, Dabundo, good luck on Sunday. It sounds like you're okay. You just need a draw against a team that doesn't care if they win or lose, it sounds like.

1:47:37That's right. And West Ham could lose anyway.

1:47:40Bill Simmons:They could. And then you'd be fine. Yeah. Odds are probably like 6-1 that we go down, 5-1. But it's high enough that I'm uncomfortable. All right. CR, I'm glad we're still getting along after Sixers Celtics. I think there's water under the bridge, brother. It just turned out badly for both of us. You know what? That's one of the things that was actually comforting about watching the Spurs last night. And I was like, you know what? This is a different sport. It is. We had no fucking shot. Honestly. We were going to play Keita against Wembenyama? Yeah. I mean, not that we would even go to the finals anyway, but this happens right around now in the last couple of NBA seasons.

1:48:18I'm like, oh, that's how far we are. Forget it. There are levels. I'm not even mad. Yeah, there's this speed thing, and you can really feel it with the perimeter guys too. There was this speed thing going on. It's almost like watching two lightweight boxers or welterweight boxers, and they're just flying, and you're like, oh, man. I was watching Caruso getting stronger as the game went on, and I was like, never mind. Yeah. Yeah, see, I was wondering what was going on with him. Yeah. Maybe he got some Paul George tips. I was like, this is nuts. Yeah. Are they just going to leave him open all series?

1:48:48Is that the plan? Just hope he misses? Well, that's the Spurs, on the flip side, that I think they're going to let Fox and Harper just take threes now. I think you have to double Wemby, right? You can't. You basically have to live and die with guys on the Spurs hitting perimeter threes would be my guess. But are you up or down

1:49:08Bill Simmons:for the playoffs, DeBundo? I'm up, thanks to Jalen Dern. What a guy. He's been great. You know, you hate to do a hate watch sometimes, but I bet under points, rebounds and assists in every game. Wow. Terry Rozier. We went six and one. He Terry Rozier. Yeah, I've been listening to some of that. In the Pistons Cavs series. Oh my God. And then I actually had Caruso over last night, which might have been the easiest win of my life. Oh my God. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. I went big on Spurs-Knicks after round one. I went on the Spurs this year. I have a lot of Spurs stuff. I just at some point was like, what are we doing here?

1:49:46These odds are out of whack. But now the odds are... Now it's like they're dead even. It's minus 108 for Spurs or OKC. It couldn't be more even. You know, we're on the verge of NBA history, Bill. Which one? Never before has the NBA Cup final then repeated. I know. You love this. The long storied history of the NBA. I mean, Sal loved this. Sal is now excited about this. He somehow corrupted Sal. He's like the NBA Cup. We've never had a rematch. We could get a rematch if we get Spurs-Knicks, and the Cupheads are very excited about it. We're very excited. It does feel like the biggest possible finals we could have.

1:50:18Like, Wemby against the New York Knicks is the best we can do, I think. Right? And probably the toughest, I would say, if it does happen, those tickets at MSG will be the single hardest finals tickets probably ever. Do you see there's already a StubHub courtside price for game one of the finals for the Knicks? Is it like$30 ,000? There was one listed for$100 ,000, which I think might have been overlisted. Somebody tweeted, for$100 ,000, I got to be checking into the game. Well, the other thing... That's probably fair. The other thing is Dolan controls all this stuff and isn't going to work with the league.

1:50:54And he's just going to be like, I've made promises to Bobby Bacala and Matthew Modine and all these other people. that had been going forever. We always got to drag Bodine through the mud here. Bodine's been a great Knicks Liberty supporter. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of that Sixers game three, whether it was really M. Night Shyamalan who gave his tickets to Timothy Chalamet to allow him to sit courtside in Philly. Oh, is that a rumor? It's a controversy. Would that be a... We'd have to ban him, right? Yeah, I mean, to the extent that he is the most notable courtside guy I mean, that's disgusting if that's what he did.

1:51:33That would really be horrible. CR, I'll see you on Friday because we're doing Animal House. It's the last comedy. This could be the last rewatch ever. The Bundo, I'll be watching. I'm going to be gambling. Say hi to the crew for me. Thanks, guys.

1:51:44Bill Simmons:Thanks for having me. This episode is brought to you by Brooks Running. Sometimes in the sports world, we see performances so mind-blowing you think someone somewhere is bending the rules. Like when an unknown player comes out of nowhere and tears through the league with a dominant scoring streak. Well, the Glycerin Flex from Brooks is that phenomenon in shoe form. It provides a flexible cushion ride that's made to move with you. With a breathable upper, your shoe feels like a distraction-free second skin. It's the ultimate blend between human movement and tech. So if you want to feel the best parts of your run, flex the rules, the new Glycerin Flex.

1:52:17Bill Simmons:Shop the Glycerin Flex at brooksrunning.com. This episode is brought to you by Panda Express. It's not always easy to show love, but there is one way to express how you feel, food. And what better way to say I love you than with Panda Express's delicious, authentically cooked American Chinese cuisine. Whether it's eating with someone you love or while watching the team you love, you can pick from tasty options like orange chicken, honey walnut shrimp, Kung Pao chicken, and black pepper sirloin steak. Have you eaten yet? Order now or visit a Panda Express near you. All right, it's a family reunion.

1:52:53Bill Simmons:My daughter is home briefly from school. She has to leave for an internship. Murph joining us for the first time ever. Is this his first on-time cameo? I think it might be his first podcast. We wanted to put a mic in front of his face, but... We thought the mic would freak him out, but he's here. He looks like he's going to nap during this. He's just happy to be here. He's happy to be here. All right, so we used to call this, for realsies, we called it Teen Patrol. Now you're 21. You turned 21 two weeks ago. You're a young adult. I am. How does that make you feel? Are you feeling old? Terrible.

1:53:24Yeah, I'm sorry.

1:53:25Bill Simmons:I feel awful. It was fun having drinks with you on your 21st birthday, though, and watching you flash your ID to everybody. I'd like to stay at this age forever. Now that I'm here, I don't want to get any older. It's an exciting time for me, but probably a daunting time for you and mom. Do you want to say final thanks to all the fake ID people you were over the years? I will. Say goodbye to Quinn. I'll say I was Quinn. Thank you, Quinn, for your service. I was Zoe Simmons, but I lived in Bakersfield. Yeah. So I lived in Long Beach. I appreciate all my old homes. Thank you, everyone, for your service.

1:53:59Bill Simmons:I told you I was Bart Osmond for like two and a half years. I just can't believe that anyone would believe your name was Bart. And I was 5 '10", and I would always crouch when I was buying. So anyway, I'm glad you're 21. Thanks, Dad. Welcome to adulthood. We're going to talk about Euphoria first, the most important show of your generation of the 2020s. went away for a while. The stars on the show became super famous. Almost too famous to be in a TV show. Now the show is back and polarizing. Are people mad? What's the deal? Yeah, people aren't happy about what's going on with this season. I have a few issues with it.

1:54:33Well, first of which, it's the Cassie show, which no one signed up for. At the beginning of Euphoria, it was all surrounded by Rue. Rue was the center and then all of the exterior relationships were kind of side plots. But this season, it feels like Sydney Sweeney and her boobs are the two main characters. And everyone else is just kind of doing their own thing.

1:54:54Bill Simmons:So there's been a lot of dialogue in our house about this, about why they chose to do this. And either she's making fun of the persona that people seem to think she is the last four years, or Sam Levinson, the creator and director, he's making fun of her and she doesn't realize it. So where do you stand? Um, I would like to believe that the first reason would be the correct one. But at the same time, Sydney Sweeney and every single brand deal, every single internet thing that she's done has made me believe that she genuinely is that type of person. Like the American Eagle ad was a conversation within all of my classes in college for months on end, far too long.

1:55:33People were triggered. There was some triggering. People were triggered. But like, I mean, I just don't, I think that is who she is. And honestly, props to her for standing so true to her identity, I guess. But I think Sam Levinson is making fun of her. The monstrous boob version of Sidney Sweeney destroying all of LA was kind of like, oh, maybe he's not on her side here.

1:55:58Bill Simmons:The Godzilla boobs? Godzilla boobs. She said it was like one of the highlights of her career to do that whole scene. I'm sure it was because her career is within this area of her body. So of course she's going to be ecstatic that her boobs were bigger than like the stadium or the Staples Center. Yeah. Like. So you didn't like the boxing movie is what you're telling me. I actually thought it was pretty good. I'm sure it was. I don't know. I have a problem with her where I can't get into her characters because she's just the same person in every show. Yeah. And Euphoria to me feels the most authentic to her and this season has reigned true to that.

1:56:30But she's the first biggest problem.

1:56:32Bill Simmons:Okay. My second biggest problem is that Nate Jacobs has become, am I allowed to say the P word here? Sure. You say what you want. Nate Jacobs has become a major pussy. And he's, but he's, we have to remember that he beat up Maddie Perez in season one. He single-handedly put his father in jail and uprooted his whole life. And he was the biggest bully at the school that they went to. And now he's getting bossed around by Sidney Swooney and her big boobs. and these gangsters that are extorting him for money right it's like Nate wouldn't you think that you should start carrying like a gun or maybe like a pocket knife or something to defend yourself you're just going to keep getting limbs cut off without doing anything you're 6 '5 and you're a former quarterback you can't fight back against anybody that's what I'm saying I really I dislike the fact that he has been completely emasculated in this season and he's losing toes and fingers losing toes and fingers I liked when Jacob Elordi was like this force in euphoria and he's no longer that.

1:57:30So that's a major problem.

1:57:32Bill Simmons:Okay. I'm also just not understanding where the season's going to go because we're six episodes in now and Rue has almost been murdered multiple times by the new person that she works for. Maddie's somehow getting involved in this entire stripper deal. And it's just Sydney Sweeney boobs. So it's like, where is everything going to come together? I'm not sure. And it's Rue making this face for pretty much 90 % of the episodes. Yeah. She always looks like that. That's a good job, dad. You look pretty. I don't like you looking at me like that. I'm scared. I don't like that. Yeah, but you have to say something, too.

1:58:11She's like, come on, man. Come on. I don't know.

1:58:15Bill Simmons:I feel like she's. Great actress, obviously. I feel like she's a little bit on autopilot this season. I mean, she has a lot of shit going on. She's probably the biggest female movie star we have. And she's like, oh, fuck, I got to be on season three of this show. So I feel like if this was basketball, this would be like Jason Tatum in February playing the Nets and just kind of running up and down and shooting threes. I'm with you. It seems like Sydney Sweeney is the only one that's really like into it. And she might need this. this was her starting place and maybe i mean she's huge so i don't know if that's accurate so how much how much content have you consumed about sydney and zendaya and not not being in the same place and never filming the same because you you pointed out in the wedding scene you never actually saw them on screen together they're never on screen together and zendaya just doesn't like her i mean that's at least what i've i've read and i've heard through the media yeah i don't i I just don't want to say things that might not be true.

1:59:10I don't think she likes her.

1:59:11Bill Simmons:Yeah. And more than that, I do respect the fact that she values herself as an actress to such a level where she's not going to, like, put herself in that position to be in scenes with someone she dislikes. At the same time, it just—it fucks with the show. And there are multiple relationships on the show where people don't want to be on screen with one another. You're right. Which is problematic because then it just— Well, and they got rid of the girls from Faces of Death. What's her name? Oh, um, Barbie Ferreira. We kind of like that movie. We were all right with it. I thought it was good. She was definitely dialing it up.

1:59:41I like her a lot, but she also had her own problems with Sam Levinson. It just seems like it's been too much time, too much baggage, too much shit has happened. Honestly, I was surprised that this season is as compelling as it is because I thought it was going to be a total train wreck. Yeah. So I'm happy to watch it. You know I'm not a tough audience. I can watch anything and be like, that was enjoyable. I'm having a good time. I just want to know some consistency of the plot line or where this is going.

2:00:08Bill Simmons:No Tell Me Lies for you. What do you mean? Like not even close to Tell Me Lies, how excited you were after that season. No, because that, I mean, because we had a villain the whole time. This show, it's like our villain is so inconsistent and I wanted Nate Jacobs to be the villain because he's my favorite villain. Yeah. And now he's just like this fucking loser that's like hiding out in his house waiting for more toes and fingers to be cut off. So. How many does he have? Ten fingers. He's down to like. He still has like 17 left that can get cut off. Yeah. It's like maybe Nate Jacobs pick up a pocket knife.

2:00:40That's all that I have to say.

2:00:41Bill Simmons:And you were happy with the Tell Me Lies season finale, right? Absolutely. I mean, it was great. Some people had some things to say. I honestly like that Steven won because I thought Lucy was a bigger loser than he is. Interesting. At least he had some ambition and he was committed to the fact that he's an awful person. Lucy spent the whole season trying to convince everyone that she wasn't. Meanwhile, she is. And then you loved JFK Love Story. Oh my God. The best. Even though it kind of ended weekly. I hate to say this. I probably should have known more about what happened with them, but I really didn't know much.

2:01:15Yeah. So watching this show for me was like, it was a lot to take in because I really didn't know much about what happened to him or her. But she's incredible. You knew they died, right? I only knew that JFK died. I didn't know that Carolyn Bassett also died. So that was, I mean, I loved that show. I wish more shows like that would come out just about the ins and outs of like really popular relationships.

2:01:41Bill Simmons:You might like the OJ show. Maybe we should watch that before we move. I mean, that was the left turn. No, that was the same kind of show where it was like real life, but really well done with good actors. I think she's great too. The lady that plays Carolyn Bassett. I can't remember her name, but she'll be huge. She's gorgeous. I like how you're calling her Bassett. Bassett? I think it's Bassett. Bassett. Carolyn Bassett. Sorry, Carolyn. You liked her. You thought that 90s style was back. Oh, yeah. the clothes. Well, she's just classic. And I like that the internet's like dressing like Carolyn Bessette today.

2:02:12And it's like, no, like you're just dressing like a chic, normal person. Like, but the internet just likes to ascribe labels and names to things that don't need them. But I do like that her style is coming back into the forefront because she's great.

2:02:24Bill Simmons:And you like that roommate show on the movie, The Sandler's Daughter. Awesome. I love everything that those two girls do. And obviously Sandler is like my, he's my peak. I just, I love him the most. that movie was great I mean as someone that's in college and you have roommates and obviously my roommates have never ever been like that person but it's just interesting to see and to watch and be like that was funny and I understand what you mean and how you feel the algorithm really understands you so your MVP of 2026 is Lord who you just saw in concert last week and you said it was the greatest night of your life I don't have many musical artists that I feel that way for With her, it's like time stops.

2:03:08Like I get really weird about Lorde. I love, love, love her.

2:03:13Bill Simmons:Is that a polarizing opinion or do most people feel that way? No, I think that people, because she's been labeled like cringe at times or her music is like too old or outdated because we all listened to it when I was 10. Remember Royals? What's cringey though? Oh, Royals? Yeah, but just because she's been around for such a long time, people have problems with people who have remained successful that long. and also like she's had some moments at concerts where she's like shushed the crowd and done some things but she's just like really feels things and the internet doesn't get that sometimes um i think that people that listen to her music feel the same way that i do and you like the maggie what's her face too right um maggie rogers oh yeah she's great too me and mom have loved her for forever but lord is is everything to me and her concert was impeccable there's just not a miss in any of her songs even if you don't know her music it's just like every song has a beat every song is cool and she is like a polarized like the way that she dances just her as a figure like she's just she's awesome what's her demo i'd say people my age so everyone in the crowd was like around yeah around i mean at least we were in the pit and that was like all the people that are dancing but i think lord is for everyone like mom loves lord i think people who like music like lord because she's a great lyricist and like with the way that she writes and the things that she says like they really relate to people.

2:04:33So.

2:04:34Bill Simmons:Who else do you like these days? Who are you listening to? Well, I'm still a big camp fan. I know you have your mixed feelings. I'm not against it. You and Mom just need to get a room with camp. Yeah, we'll get a room and go to camp. And Mumford & Sons is the other one. Mumford & Sons are, I mean, that concert last summer was probably one of the best I've ever seen. I'm going to see them again this summer. Yeah, you'll see them at Fenway. Like they, he is, Marcus Mumford is incredible. It just brings me a lot of joy to see artists who are like sticking true to who they are and don't have to do all the theatrics in order to perform and can just like let their voices be the thing.

2:05:07I also like Sabrina Carpenter now though, which kind of goes against that.

2:05:10Bill Simmons:Yeah, that was an interesting turn for you. Yeah. You didn't like her for a while. I really like her music now, but it's also because I think I'm in a more fun part of my life. Yeah. And, um, I love to like go out with my friends and dance and her music is dancing music. So now it's a little more like relatable to me. And also when you're happy, I feel like you like happy music and her music is happy music. So Sabrina Carpenter, good hang or bad hang? Do you think? I think she's probably great. She's definitely great. She's been media trained. She's been in like on Disney channel since she was 10 years old.

2:05:40At that point, you can't not be great. She's great. I'm telling you.

2:05:44Bill Simmons:Chaperone tough hang. I don't even want to speak on her. She doesn't deserve it right here. Speaking of tough hangs. Oh God. Alex versus Alex happened. That was another thing you were fascinated by Alex Earl versus Alex Cooper and you, you were listening to Call Her Daddy back when it was pretty raunchy. Yeah. And then you stopped at some point. Alex Cooper, like when her pod was good. Yeah. Um, I don't, it's, it's safe to say I have my side and it's with Alex Earl, stand true to Alex Earl. Yeah. Um, I think this argument is so ridiculous. Well, can you give us the backstory? Cause I guarantee 99 % of my audience doesn't know.

2:06:23Bill Simmons:I know it's not exactly. Here's what I know. Alex Cooper, first she has her partner, Sophia. Yes. Who she somehow cut out and got the pod herself. Grew the pod, came to Spotify, became a much bigger pod, went to Sirius. Did like some really strange documentary that your grandfather stormed out of the room for. He did. When we tried to watch. Like literally left. He doesn't storm out of most things either. I've never seen him storm out of a room before. He's like, I don't like this person. I'm out of here. But anyway, she builds this little, I guess, little media empire. Alex Earl is her first big hit.

2:06:57Bill Simmons:But they have some sort of falling out, which to me from afar, knowing nothing. Well, I can fill you in. Yeah, tell us. So I'm assuming from what I've read, Alex Cooper gave Alex Earl a non-compete contract where she wasn't allowed to. Obviously, non-compete contract means you can't do anything that would be competitive with Alex Cooper's brand. Yeah. And then Alex Earl comes out with Sip Margs, which is obviously a hit because it's a low-calorie tequila drink and all of Alex Earl's fans are like little girls that just like, I mean, not little girls, girls that would like to drink that. And Alex Cooper came out with that unwell hydration drink, which, I mean, I've never tried it.

2:07:36I have heard good things, so I won't give shit to that. But I think that was where the problem kind of started to arise, where Alex Cooper was like, hey, fuck you, I told you not to do anything that's going to compete with my...

2:07:48Bill Simmons:But even before that, Alex Earl's podcast was on Alex Cooper's Unwell Network. Yeah. And then something happened and all of a sudden it was out. Well, that's what I'm telling you. I think that kind of started it. Oh, you think the drinks thing? I think Alex Cooper is a mean girl is what I've gotten from the internet. And I think she's insecure in a sense. And there's someone... So she had somebody that was on her podcast network who was starting to eclipse her. That was bigger than her. Yeah. Like, and in a more authentic way, because Alex Cooper was cool and people liked her because of the stories that she would tell.

2:08:21Yeah. Which, without a doubt, are super raunchy and, like, intense. And people's feelings are at expense of her stories, but they're interesting. And Alex Earl is kind of like a more authentic, cool, relatable, older sister type who people just like in a way that's, like, more connected than people like Alex Cooper.

2:08:39Bill Simmons:Yeah, because you'll watch her. She does stuff like she's just doing her makeup, getting ready to go somewhere. And it's the whole process of hanging out with her. She does that. She feels like a friend. And like Alex Cooper couldn't do that because she's not likable to most people because she's known to be mean. Yeah. So I think that was... But she obviously is likable to some degree because she has a pretty big audience. I was a part of that audience at some point until all of this... People on the internet are calling her a vulture, I guess. which is, I mean, I have nothing to say on that, but people are saying, and part of the problem is that Alex Cooper will come to you when you've had some terrible traumatic life event and will be the first person to kind of pick at your body and be like, let's talk about this.

2:09:22I didn't say that. That's what the internet's saying. But that's kind of like a part of the thing. So then anyway, Alex Cooper comes out with this video adding Alex Earl being like, Alex, I've seen you reposting all of this stuff. Like, just come out and say it. We were all like, holy shit. But it also felt like a skit. It was like the most, the weirdest like video ever. Just like, I mean, you think that she has such a big team where they'd be like, maybe make this sound a little bit more, whatever.

2:09:54Bill Simmons:Did you feel like at all that in wrestling, we would call this a work? That they were trying to do this to both elevate each other? But then it's weeks and weeks and Alex Earl hasn't responded or addressed anything, she went on a talk show and they asked her about it and she was like, I didn't prepare for this. I don't want any negativity, whatever, blah, blah, blah. Like did not even give it a second of time, which leads me to believe that like obviously they had a falling out, but people thought it might be a PR stunt, like something else might be going on. But clearly something deeper rooted has happened and Alex Cooper is more willing to like blow things up and kind of be immature and then Alex Earl wasn't wanting to feed into it.

2:10:33It's a whole debacle, But my stance is I'm on Alex Earl's side. And I think Alex Cooper's being a little immature.

2:10:40Bill Simmons:What are Alex Earl's? What are her next five years look like? Well, she just launched a skincare brand called Real Actives, which people had interesting feedback for because most people thought she should have come out with a bikini brand or something that felt more like authentic to her audience. And a skincare brand is cool. Or like lingerie, like Sydney Sweeney. Nah, she's too cool for that. Sydney Sweeney can stay in her lane. She can do that. But Alex Earl, like she, she, there were opportunities. She chose skincare, which is, I mean, sure. So that seems like it's going well. I've seen posts about it.

2:11:14People seem to like it. I haven't purchased it myself and I don't think I will, but good for her. So your lane would have been core power yoga. Something, you know, like something that would have prompted people to purchase it more. I don't know. I think skincare is, is a tough, whatever. It seems like she's doing well. And then she has sit marks. So she's, she's successful. She seems like she's doing well.

2:11:34Bill Simmons:All right, just so people don't think you're catty. Two people you really like. Did I sound catty in that? No, not at all. I apologize. Not at all. But you really like Kylie and Kendall. I do. I really do. When you told this to me, I was surprised because I felt like they're Kardashians. They get a tough rep. They do. That's for sure. I wouldn't say it's, you know, completely undeserved. Yeah, sure. at the same time I'm like a huge Kylie stan I'm still unclear on how I feel about Kendall because she has taken my husband so I'm gonna need a minute to think on that one I'm not even ready to talk about that yet um how long have they been together Kendall and too long they went to Hawaii last week I almost threw my phone out the window whatever um Kylie's great she she just really is I love her.

2:12:25But what's great about her? Tell me why you like her. I think she's a super authentically kind person. And obviously, people might be like, what are you saying? She's one of the biggest stars. And like, how could she be an authentically kind person? But in every single interview and every single fan interaction, everything that I've seen of her, she's just like a nice, cool, normal, down to earth person in light of everything that has happened to her. Like she's been in front of a camera since what she was like, eight years old.

2:12:53Bill Simmons:Right. And the fact that she's like a normal, cool, kind person that's liked by most of the people that she meets, like that is, that says a lot to me because people aren't like that these days. What was the thing you were telling me about when she had a kid and she gained weight and she was like, well, she went, she went on Jake Shane's podcast last week, which is where this like real love ignited for me because I just, I loved her personality. I was like, I'd be friends with this person in a heartbeat. Like she seems great. Don't have a heart attack over that one. you'd be friends with whoever you want.

2:13:24Bill Simmons:You tend to overrate all Jake Shane appearances though. But she was talking about how when she had her daughter Stormy, she was in the best shape of her life. And then she got pregnant and was eating pints of ice cream every single night and bagels and all sorts of things. And by the time she was giving birth to her daughter, she was 200 pounds. And didn't even like flinch in saying that. And I just think in this day and age, especially with how skeletal people in Hollywood have become and like the GLP one and everyone's just so, so skinny. For someone to admit that they were 200 pounds, someone as like much of a force as Kylie Jenner is and she's constantly talked about for her looks and everything.

2:14:05Yeah. I mean, I thought that that was pretty, a cool thing to do. So I'm big in on her.

2:14:11Bill Simmons:In the rundown you sent me, things you wanted to talk about, you wrote, Kylie and Kendall have single-handedly taken down the Twin Towers, Jacob and Timmy. Well, that is my only problem with them. They just went to Hawaii. Yeah. Well, Kendall and Jacob went to Hawaii. And then they got caught on a double date. And there's some awesome paparazzi pictures of them in a car, like covering their faces. I think Kendall and Jacob are a great couple and will probably have beautiful children if that's the route that it's going for. I do think that they're too big on their own to be able to be together in a way that could ever be normal.

2:14:47But I could be wrong.

2:14:48Bill Simmons:You know my theory about this. What? I've talked about this forever. I haven't. Two celebrities, when they date two famous people, they have to stay in the same level. And the moment one passes the other, they have to break up. Yeah. I don't know. It's got to be like this. I can't start doing this. I don't think that they'll last. It's a fun moment, though. And my prayers go to Olivia Jade because that's a tough one. That was the before Jacob Lourdes one? Jacob's ex, who was on and off for like seven years. That's the one who was the Lori Loughlin's daughter? Yes. I love her, too. Do you like her?

2:15:19Bill Simmons:The USC girl? I love her. I watch all of her videos. Why do you like her? She's super cool and normal. Her videos, she doesn't really let her personality shine. It's just kind of like aesthetics getting ready, but she's super cute and has great style. I just, I like watching her stuff and her outfits and things. What's the TikTok, Instagram attention span? Like what's happening in 2026? What's different in the last six years? In terms of people being able to, what do you mean when you say that? Just like what, are there any trends? Are people starting to realize Maybe I shouldn't be on my phone this much.

2:15:52Bill Simmons:What's happening? I mean, people will say that, but will that ever happen? Like, no. I think TikTok is just as big, if not bigger, than it was before, especially because there's now the shop, which is incredibly annoying to me, but a good move on their part. You know about the TikTok shop. Do you buy stuff? Yeah. Like the fact that there's consumer things now too, it just drags even more people in. Okay. Instagram, at least for me, is just becoming a place to post. It's not really a place that I like frequently scroll on. Instagram reels are great, but they're not as... I don't like get as much into a trance as I do with TikToks.

2:16:27Bill Simmons:Do you still go on people's posts when they post pictures of themselves and go, Gorge! I really don't anymore. No, I don't do Gorge or Hearts. I'll only really... So pretty! I'll only really comment on like my best friend's posts. Yeah. You phase out of it, you know? I'd like to get off of Snapchat at some point soon, but it's my main form of communication with my boyfriend and other people. So Snapchat's still kicking. And don't judge me for that. What? That's people judge for using Snapchat, especially in relationships. But I just like to see the face. I like to see someone else's face. Well, your generation has this whole thing where you just take pictures of where you are and send them to each other.

2:17:05Yeah, like be real and stuff.

2:17:07Bill Simmons:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that is how it is. I would rather, I just want to see photos. I think texting all the time is boring. Anyway. What social media device do you think Murph would use? He needs a lobotomy or something. I don't know what's going on with him. He really has chilled out. It's impressive. He's old. He's almost six years old. Don't say that. He's not old. If he was human, he'd be like 40. He's a baby. He still doesn't like other dogs. Yeah. All right. Other stuff. You deep dove the pit. I did. Great show. Last time you did a hospital drama that you binged was Graze and Addie during COVID, and your personality changed.

2:17:44It put me into a place.

2:17:45Bill Simmons:Yeah, you were like in a dark spot for like three months. Well, you'll be happy to hear I did re-watch Grey's Anatomy this last semester. That was my show with Hank. The entire show? It's like 18 seasons. No, no, no. We only got through like three seasons, I think. He hasn't even seen George die yet. So hopefully he's not listening to this. Yeah. He's definitely listening to this. And then we switched over to the pit halfway through watching Grey's Anatomy and it was like, I can't ever watch Grey's Anatomy again. The Pit's just, yeah. The Pit spoils everything. Yeah. I mean, what an amazing show.

2:18:16I hate to say it. My attention span is short, especially when it comes to watching television. My attention span in regular life is fine. But when I'm watching TV, I need to be stimulated by something else, which is something I'm trying to work on. Yeah.

2:18:30Bill Simmons:Like even yesterday watching the Wemby game. We were watching a movie and I had my phone. No, we watched the Wemby game and it was like one of the most important basketball games of the century. I did that to spite you because you kept punching my phone and pissing me off. Well, I was just like, I'm not going to give you the satisfaction. Why does it bother you when somebody touches your phone? You react like... He doesn't touch. You're like Warren and there's something about Mary with the headphones. You just try to rage bait me and I don't like it. So I was trying to make you angry back. Anyway, the pit is phenomenal.

2:18:56But my point to that was that I didn't pick up my phone once at any point watching that show. You were locked in. Because it moved so quickly. I wish we had more TV shows that were so fast-paced like that. And just like... I don't know. The way that it was filmed was just special. So.

2:19:12Bill Simmons:Yeah, you never left the hospital. There wasn't really any music. There's never a moment of calm. And like that, I mean, maybe that's a problem that that's the only reason why I wouldn't pick up my phone. But like, I think TV has gotten boring and there's too many pauses and things. And this show was just like perfect. That led to one of mom's best quotes. Oh God. When she said how she wished she'd been smarter because she would have been a great doctor. She would have been a great trauma doctor. She's not afraid of any sort of terrible situation. She doesn't get grossed out by blood. Her one problem is she panics.

2:19:46She's a panicker.

2:19:47Bill Simmons:I don't know if she'd panic in the ER, though. She's a loud panicker, though. She's like, oh, God, what happened? And it's like, oh, back up. Sorry, Murph. Wow, you just jostled Murph out of his nap. Yeah, but the pit is great. Anyone get canceled this year? I mean, everyone gets canceled, but currently it's James Charles, which makes me sad because I actually was telling all my friends that I'm in on him and I was like in spite of everything he's done because a lot of people have done terrible things and I acknowledge that he's a pretty he's not a great person has he been canceled multiple times?

2:20:18he's done some weird shit he's not a good person regardless I started to like him again because I thought he was funny like I just saw a lot of clips of him just he doesn't care he's just becoming one of those people where just he'd say whatever he wanted and it was like that's funny because why would you do that? whatever But he has just gotten canceled again.

2:20:37Bill Simmons:So there's no new person this year? There's no rookie of the year? Come up? Well, I'm a big Stassi Schroeder fan. Back to the... Or no, sorry. Stassi Baby. Not Stassi Schroeder. I'm sure she's great too. Stassi Baby. Kylie Jenner's best friend. She's my favorite right now. Kylie Jenner's best friend? Yes, that's what I'm saying. She's an influencer. But they've been best friends since Kylie was a little kid and they were on Kardashians together. And then it's kind of like the internet grew up with her. she's great I love her so what does she bring to the table she just does makeup and is she goes out all the time this is brain rot she goes out all the time and I love like watching her get ready and then she films her night out with her friends and it's just like this is so fun to watch because there's nothing more fun than that so um the drama was another one you liked yeah the movie back to Zendaya that movie was great I thought it was great personally anything else any horror movie this year?

2:21:34I'm excited for The Backrooms. That will be really fun to watch. And it's also just incredible that a 20-year-old is the person who produced it and created it. That makes me want to see it even more. But the idea about The Backrooms has been something that has fascinated me for forever. So I'm excited to see it.

2:21:52Bill Simmons:I've been pointing that out to you a lot about these people when they're in your age range. How just weird it is to me that somebody who's 20 is making a movie and Wemby's 22, he's a year older than you. Right. And a foot and a half taller. It makes you feel bad about yourself. No, not just like... No, it does. No, but sometimes people peak early. You're doing great. Well, I mean, Taylor Swift and she was a 17-year-old or 16, probably younger than that, like came out with the debut album. It's like this... But she's a generational musician. I know, but I'm just saying it's weird getting older because the people around you are only getting older.

2:22:24I brag about you all the time. Thanks. I know.

2:22:26Bill Simmons:Two jobs this summer. Yeah. It's impressive. It'll be cool. I'm a core power yoga scoping. instructor if anyone's involved in what it goes to my classes. Great. Uh, what's Taylor Swift's next two years look like? You know, uh, I really like her music. I'm sure she's happy. I, I can't say that I like her as a person right now. Cause you didn't cause she's seemed she's aged out of your extended demo. It's not that at all. I, I like people who are older. I don't care for that. It's the fact that she kind of will create a posse and have a lot of people around her and then drop some like fives. And I get you're a famous person and you have to do that sometimes because if people cross you, then you can't have them around because she's in a tough position.

2:23:10At the same time, like I don't love that. That doesn't, I don't know. I can't judge because I'm from afar. But I think it's also her fandom that gives me problems because I don't want to be lumped in with the real like crazies. But I do like her music a lot. so I think she'll she's gonna get married I don't know where probably in Rhode Island that'll be cool pay-per-view pay-per-view yeah pay-per-view

2:23:33Bill Simmons:hundred dollars to do like a boxing UFC event there's no way that she would do that $75 wedding there's no way that she would do that I'm sure she'll be pregnant soon she'll have ginormous babies with Travis Kelsey it'll be great she's some big kids she's like 5 '11 she's also like a great athlete probably she's a great dancer so I'm gonna assume alright How's it feel turning 21? You know, I have no, nothing's holding me back anymore. It's a nice feeling. I didn't like being Quinn and going up to the bartender, allegedly. And for them, for me to be like, oh, I don't know if like this is going to work out for me.

2:24:13And now my life has just opened up. Am I allowed to tell them the story about you?

2:24:17Bill Simmons:No. Why not? Which story? No, there are no stories about me on my own podcast. I'll just edit it out. Okay. You don't get it. We had a really fun night though. We did. The best time ever. I think that was one of my favorite days ever. That was nice. Except the Celtics lost. Yeah. That, if they had won, it would have been the cherry on top. But to see you take about four Fanta shots, which they're exactly how they sound. And one was dyed green. Yeah. That was great. And then I enjoyed you having your, transfusions, which every time I looked away and then I turned back, somehow you had another one in your hand.

2:25:00I don't know how it was happening.

2:25:01Bill Simmons:I was nervous because the Celtics were in a game seven. I figured they were probably going to lose. You were trying to loosen up. Nervous drinking, puss, you turned 21 and it was freaking me out. It was a big day. And we had a big night the night before too. Mom really had a home run. Ben even had a home run. And then, yeah, it was great. karaoke. We did. Yeah, it was weird because I because 11 years before you're 21st, I remember we went ziplining in Catalina. And that seems like it was like five minutes ago. Yeah. Well, that goes slower for you. It goes faster. I don't. Well, yeah, obviously it goes faster for you.

2:25:36But it feels like these last few years have really sped by. Like, I feel like Ben just had a senior problem the other day, which we went to. And it like it made me sad because it's like Ben just entered high school, it feels like I feel like I just had my senior prom. And all of a sudden, it's like Ben is going to college.

2:25:54Bill Simmons:And you have one more soccer year left, starting at age four. This is like year 17. Yeah. I won't give up on it, though. I'm going to do something with soccer. I can't let it go. I'm excited for your last year. Yeah. But it's... It's all I have because the Celtics are in shambles. The Patriots are coaches in Jalen Brown to end it off. We have to talk about him. Oh, yeah. You went to a lot of Sotha games this year. Well, I'm a devoted fan. You were like a legitimate fan this year. I kind of unfortunately was lucky because Papa Doc wasn't able to make most of the games. So I got a lot of tickets.

2:26:31Bill Simmons:Yeah. I've really become... And you're dating somebody who loves... Basketball. Yeah. But I've really become attached to this team. Mostly Jason. But if Jalen... Well, your guy Kata was... Kata, I've been rooting for Kata for two and a half years. Even before he could... He looked like Bambi on ice for like a season. Yeah. He couldn't like... He was not together. So did you study the Tatum-Jalen body language when Tatum came back and how they interacted? You kind of started to tell me about it. And it's just not something I ever would have wanted to look for because why would I want them to be rooting against each other?

2:27:07Bill Simmons:Yeah. It's totally there. like they totally do not get along in a sense well they don't not get along it's just they don't seem it doesn't seem like they're like they seem like co-workers yeah i'm not positive jalen was rooting for tatum to come back and be great yeah it feels like i mean as an athlete and as a soccer player it's like she he had his like there was a moment and a real opportunity in time where he was the leader and like gonna be the savior of the team. Yeah. And he was great. Like he really was. He stepped up to the plate and then Tatum comes back and everyone's like, oh, thank God, like Tatum's back.

2:27:48Now we have a chance. And I can understand how you might have a chip on your shoulder if that's the reaction of the fandom.

2:27:52Bill Simmons:It's like with Murph in our house when... When Willie comes? Yeah, because we gave... Willie gets attention. We gave our daughter Willie to your grandmother after your grandfather died and Willie hangs out with her. But when he comes back to the house, Murph acts like Jalen Brown. Yeah. he's like I've been running this shit and you are gone you're coming back into my territory I'll be the one that goes in the backyard first you will follow me but it makes me sad I'm gonna try and dribble through all five players on the court and you're not getting the ball stand over there put your hand up it makes me sad and if Jalen leaves I mean I don't know what to make of that I hope they stay together and maybe they will if there's not a good enough trade, but I do really have the feeling he wants his own thing now.

2:28:40Bill Simmons:Because they won the title. If they hadn't won the title, that would be different, right? But they already won the title and now he's like, kind of really like to have my own team. I get it. Are there any prospects for who can come in and save us? Because I'd like to have it. There's some good trades. Now, they'll be able to get some good guys. Plus, I don't know how many more years until Deuce is the backup center. The 10? Deuce is like five feet tall now. He's huge. I always see him in warm-ups and he's like doing his thing. Yeah. That would make me sad though. Jalen always has like a little handshake with him before the game.

2:29:12Like that'd be a bummer.

2:29:13Bill Simmons:That's the thing. It's so rare to stay together for that long. Like even Klay Thompson and Steph Curry eventually broke up because Klay Thompson, they didn't want to keep him. To stay together for your entire career is like the rarest thing you could do. Which makes me think it won't happen. Yeah. And also for them to be working in tandem for so long. it's understandable how he might want his own thing well you like tall guys Wemby's probably too tall for you though he's too tall 7 '7's probably too big I've gotten more mature I don't need them to be ginormous anymore like a lordy size? that'd be great and he's Australian hopefully Hank is a little kid is Australian?

2:29:53Bill Simmons:that's a bonus? I love Australia I've been telling you forever I'd like to go there but just people from other places like an accent's a cool thing it's very similar to Boston that's why you like it yeah is it? yeah really fun rambunctious people with weird accents people are happy there and they're happy because it's sunny and they're all beautiful all the time and it's like why would that not be a place where you want to go? Marco Robbins is also from there maybe you'll have to go there after college I'd like to maybe take a visit alright Zoe Simmons congratulations on turning 21 thanks you've been coming on my podcast since I was at ESPN when you sang Christmas songs oh I remember that that was like late 2000s yeah quite a run for you It's been a long time.

2:30:32Murph's first appearance, so I'm glad you're able to do this together. I was about to say, does Murph have any final words? I wish I could move the mic towards him. Murph?

2:30:38Bill Simmons:Murph? Have anything to say? Nothing. He's giving him the sniff. Can't speak. All right. Thanks, Zoe. Thanks, Dad. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to House. Thanks to Dabundo and CR. Thanks to my daughter. Thanks to Murph Simmons. Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. And don't forget to watch Animal House before we do rewatchables about it next Monday. I'm going to be back on this feed we're going to be live on Netflix after game two Knicks, Cavs it's going to be me and Mahoney and we're going to be talking about that game and I'll have a whole bunch of other stuff for that podcast as well including some special Survivor content so stay tuned for that I will see you on Thursday

2:31:31On the wayside On the first side of the world

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