An NBA Power Poll, the Surprise Celtics, the Queen Conundrum, and Fake Trades Galore With Rob Mahoney

25:50Yeah. But I do think there's a world where if you play this season 10 times, there's like six versions of it that play out like the Celtics season has, where the infrastructure and the guys you had and the guys who have had a taste in these playoffs kind of banded together and overachieved. But they just had so much bad luck with all this stuff. But the one thing is the Turner thing is a huge, thank God he didn't resign here for that money I think at this point, right? If you're them, Huff has the same stats. Yeah, it would have been pretty costly. And Turner too, like his value is depleted without Halliburton out there.

26:24Like he, their synergy is kind of generating what it is that he does so well offensively. Honestly though, given those two gap years for Boston and Indiana, the Celtics can kind of, like if they're overly competitive and do really well as they have been and continue to play this way, and then get Jason Tatum back later this season next season whatever they have enough talent to continue to be a really high level contending team the Pacers though could use that top five pick or so like honestly this is not a it's a disastrous outcome in the present tense because these games are a really rough watch so many guys are just in a way over their heads right now yeah given all those injuries given the needs of the team given that it's kind of a natural pivot point with Halliburton's injury this is not the worst possible outcome for them.

27:07I agree. I'll be interested to see where they lean over the next like 30 days. Yeah. Because now we're in a situation now where you really have a chance to get a top three pick. But if you, like if they're 12 and 22 in a couple weeks that all of a sudden now you're in the seven to 10 range which will still be good in this draft. All right, we're taking a break and then we're going to life support. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. FanDuel's putting you in control right from tip-off. That's right. You choose your own reward. Play it safe. Go for it. Feeling bold. That's your move.

27:43Whatever your style. You're in control. You can bet the NBA Cup. The Lakers aren't losing to the Spurs without Wimby as much as I've appreciated what the Spurs have done. Come on. Let's be honest. The Lakers are winning at least one game. But the bet you should do is OKC I think is minus 135 on Fandle right now to win the NBA Cup. OKC never loses. What great odds. Just put OKC minus 135 with any NFL game you like this weekend. You're good to go. No matter how you play, Fandle is giving you the power to choose your reward. Own your game this NBA season. Head to Fandle.com slash BS to make your pick, get in the game, and play it your way.

28:22Must be 21-plus presidents like states or 18-plus and president of D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Opt-in required. Rewards are non-retroble. Restrictions apply, including bonus and token expiration. leg requirements and max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook.fandle.com. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER. Visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Every football season, the same thing happens. The game somehow makes everybody really hungry. Quarterback scrambles, clearly a sign for breakfast burritos. Yeah. Turnover suddenly deserted at 2 p.m.

29:01Doesn't sound so crazy. Wing formations, well, those can only mean buffalo wings, as if they're ever not in play. Even the goalposts start looking suspiciously like french fries. It's almost like football is sending the message to eat more food. Yeah, the good news, Uber Eats makes those cravings easy to satisfy with game day deals all season long. From wings and pizza to chips, drinks, and even last minute grocery runs. Don't sleep on those. You'll find savings on all your favorites delivered straight to your door. Order now on Uber Eats. The life support group led off by the LA Clippers at six and 18.

29:40I have a small question. I already mentioned it to you, but would anyone actually trade for Kawhi? Is that a guy, does he have trade value? I guess is my question. Like I feel like Embiid does not have trade value. I agree. I don't think Paul George has trade value. I think he, maybe two months from now, if he played every game and looked good, maybe a mild piece of it, does Kawhi have trade value? Are front offices looking at tape of him and discussing him and wondering if they should make a play for him as a very, very discount superstar move? I think the answer with him is not that kind of opportunism.

30:18It's not like the savvy front office that's like making its calculated gamble. It's who is going to be desperate enough to talk themselves into something like that. Like who will just be on the edge of if we don't pull out like a guaranteed playoff spot this season, we're all going to lose our jobs. Our team is falling apart. And that's where I don't know who that team is. Like that team that's really going to be so desperate that they would roll the dice on everything that Kawhi is, but most importantly, what he isn't, which is an every night superstar. You can sort of build your foundation around and have a baseline expectation that he will play.

30:53Yeah, the only team I could think of was Detroit. You're way too good, though. Well, I know, but that's the only one where I could see them having a meeting about it and be like, wow, we could just turn Tobias Harris and Ivy in a contract into Kawhi and just put Kawhi in the Tobias Harris spot. Could we make the finals if we did that? And then they would reach out to Kawhi and Kawhi would be like, I don't like cold. No, thank you. Please don't do this. Um, but that's the only one where it's like, it basically he's not that he would be free. Cause I like Ivy and Harris is, I think is a valuable veteran for them.

31:27It would cost them something, but, um, that's the only one where it's like, oh, this is a noticeable upgrade. And then you, when you watch Detroit, who I think is really good, so much depends on Cade in the last three, four minutes of these games. I think that gets easier to stop in a playoff series when you're just watching it for two straight weeks and they're just doing the same thing every time they don't have that second wild card something yet. And Kawhi would be the highest possible version of that if he was healthy, but I still feel like they need... I don't think they need to go all in.

31:58They certainly don't need to trade for Anthony Davis or anything like that, but they need some sort of somebody. Maybe it could be Ivy. I don't know. Maybe. Is there a Cleveland case? Just because... The problem is they can't do trades. Well, yeah, they're over the apron. It has to be a one-for-one where the contracts are exact is the only way to do it. Unless they shed salary that did it. There are some funky ways to kind of get around the can't aggregate salaries rules. It's all needlessly complicated. I think it would be very difficult to engineer. But in terms of a team that needs some of what Kawhi does and might also be feeling the pressure a little bit to provide it almost immediately, they're a team that I would at least think about.

32:40It's certainly the team that has to feel way different than they did a month ago. Where it's like wow, we could really make a playoff run here to now it's December 9th. They have to be looking at the East going, we can make the finals. Like, absolutely, we can make the finals. There's no question. Are we good enough to do that? What is the move? And they have a lot of flexibility to do it. So I would rather see the Clippers trade Zion. 23 Milwaukee, 10 and 15. I still like this team and I don't think we ever saw it. No. Did all these guys ever play together? We never really saw everybody together other than for like two games.

33:20And I still like the concept of Giannis and shooting. And we just, you know, the thing is the East, the way it is, there is still going to be a playing team if they don't trade Giannis. Sure. We'll be in the mix for that stuff. I mean, do you think we will see another Giannis game in a Bucs uniform? Are we like, is the alarm blaring that loudly? Or is it possible that once he comes back from the calf stuff that we might see that team? I don't think anyone's trading for him unless they see him running around for two weeks this is fair this is like the decade of being afraid of calf injuries this is what's happened I have a hipster question for you like you know with like alternative music be like Pearl Jam was actually Stone Temple Pilots like those people that tried to zag against the famous bands was the Miles Turner signing slash Dame buyout actually worse than the Derrick Queen trade?

34:19It hasn't been good. No one is going to argue that it's been good. But really, at least the Pelicans got Derrick Queen, who's really good. You know, really, really good. The Bucks might have to now trade Giannis while also paying Dame for the next few years and also overpaying Miles Turner. That actually might be more of a disaster if you're looking at it. I mean, it's more of a disaster that they didn't put the protections on the Atlanta pick. I get it. But if you're actually looking at who got less out of this whole thing, it might actually be Milwaukee. It might be, but I at least understand why it happened.

34:56It does have a whiff of like, what if the LeBron Cavs trade for Antoine Jameson and Shaq? Like there is that kind of vibe of like the last ditch effort before the disaster strikes. But I can at least understand that kind of desperation. as you mentioned with the Pelicans there's just like no justification for it it wasn't needed, it wasn't necessary you could probably have pulled off that deal without like with much heavier protection on that pick and so why it turned out the way it did no one really knows except Joe Dumars why this turned out the way it did I think all of us could look at the Bucs and say yes we don't agree with the mechanics and it's going to come back to bite them but this is a team that's on the edge and feels like they need to do something dramatic I hated it but I understood it I didn't like it.

35:41Next category is a really fun one. Thanks to all these teams for a lot of league past joy this year. The young and the frisky, starting out with number 22, Utah. Will Hardy might disagree with the young and frisky, at least the frisky part of that as of late. He did get mad. He did get mad. He got big mad. He wants these motherfuckers to fucking play harder, which fair. And honestly, that's the way you have to coach these teams in this range sometimes. Yeah, I wouldn't call Keontae George consistent, but he has had some moments. But this team's been in some fun games this year. Especially for us on the West Coast.

36:18They've just been in some good ones. They've been in some real high-offense battles. They're doing everything right. 21 Portland, who really fell off over the last couple weeks. In their defense, they have no guards. They just have no one healthy. they're starting city Sissoko that is the state of things for the Blazers yeah it was tough because they threw a lot on Drew's plate and it went great for about two weeks but he's in his mid-30s and got hurt immediately Charlotte number 20 7-17 two wins against Toronto Zach ridiculed me when I made them my number 6 pick in the league pass draft a couple weeks ago they're a great league pass team I love watching Charlotte I really enjoyed it I just really enjoy when they have all their guys.

37:10Brandon Miller is one of those guys, if you catch on the right night, you're like, this guy might make five All-NBA teams. It's weird the weak part of their team is LaMelo. Not knowing what you're getting from him game to game, and then even when he plays, then they defer to him too much, and that's the part they can't figure out. And I also don't think, do you think he has trade value at this point? He's such a matter of taste that if he does have trade value, it's with only a very select group of front offices at this point. Like between, honestly, like the injury history is a huge part of it.

37:43Everything you take away from like, is he a winning player and that whole conversation and then within it, not having his best individual season. Like that's just a couple too many disqualifiers to really have a robust trade market. Who hangs up faster, Harden for Lamello straight up? I think the Hornets have to hang up. Like that doesn't get them anywhere, does it? it makes them pretty interesting that's just you're getting out of the little mellow business once and for all yeah I agree with you, I think the Hornets hang up faster personally as someone who likes watching the Hornets I don't want to watch the James Harden Hornets that's not what I'm signing up for yeah I want to watch the Con Caniple Hornets well this leads to one of my big questions could this be the best NBA draft since 1996, this draft we have now and I'm going to use it by this this way to assess it.

38:34How many guys from this draft could you see conceivably making an all-NBA team? Being one of the 15 best guys in the league. I'm just going to list some names and you tell me when to stop. And the threshold was all-NBA, right? One all-NBA team. Flag. Harper.

38:58You're pausing. No, I'm in. I was saying keep rolling. I'm down for a potential Dylan Harper All-NBA. I could see Knipple. Edgecombe? Maybe. Maybe. I mean, it's maybe for all these guys. All-NBA is tough. Edgecombe's like 15 years old. I don't even think he's fully through puberty yet. He's a baby. VJ Edgecombe could be a seven-time All-Star and never make an All-NBA team. True. All right, so this is all conceivably maybes. Yes. Cedric Coward. I don't see it All-Star maybe All-NBA You're not buying like this is the next Kawhi you haven't seen any of that stuff How many All-NBA teams has Kawhi made?

39:41He's made at least one Yes It certainly fits the one threshold He's had to be one of the best 15 guys once That's true Maybe Cedric Howard can have that kind of peak season where he does cut in but I don't necessarily see that First team all defense 20 points a game Derrick Queen oh you thought about it i i'm tempted it's not inconceivable i have for the first six are yes or maybe for all six ace bailey is when it starts to go sideways that's a no so it's six and i and maybe one that we're not even thinking of because these drafts sometimes are like late there's a late bloomer we didn't say so 1996 iverson kobe nash ray allen stoyakovich Marbury, Jermaine O 'Neal, Sharif Abdurrahim.

40:31Eight All-NBA guys. Pretty good. It's fucking amazing. Three MVPs. So even getting, I was looking it up, like even getting six would be like the number two highest total, I think, for a draft. Yeah, I was going to say 03, but I don't think they have eight All-NBA guys. Yeah, and then there's a couple others that are like four. I think there was one five, but for the most part, really hard to find depth like this. So, all right next category I love Charlotte by the way keep doing what you're doing Charlotte signs of human life is our next category number 19 Dallas at 9 and 16 would you trade Anthony Davis because I would not for what I would ride this out for six more weeks yeah I don't really see the urgency in it me neither I get the ultimate want to turn the page as a franchise I can understand but Anthony Davis is really good and honestly win healthy, very good for this team.

41:28So I don't really see... I'm not feeling that absolute push that we have to get this done, even by the trade deadline, to be honest with you. I am only caring about Flag if I'm Dallas. What's good for Flag? What's good for Flag is to play with Anthony Davis. That's it. Put him together. It's also to play with Ryan Nembhard, apparently. That guy. Undrafted free agent, Ryan Nembhard. Turns out playing in big games for your entire high school and college life and then leading the NCAA in assists, maybe you should be one of the 60 players drafted. Pretty good. When do you think, who writes the first, what's the date of the first story about, could the Mavericks be a stealth contender?

42:10When it's like Kyrie could come back on February 22nd, they have a chance to be like a 9 or a 10 seed. Would you want to say, when does that all start, you think? Christmas? Not this season, I don't think. There's no way, right? Not this season. No. There's no way? Who is writing that story? I don't just, you know, people. Somebody. People might. Maybe there's a whisper in some back alley somewhere. I didn't say it would be an incredible person. Yeah, I don't think it would be super incredible. I don't think they have that in them. But they're scoring again. I fully support them actually playing point guards.

42:43It's turned out to be like a masterful move for them. They've been much more enjoyable to watch and ultimately just much more successful. The irony of one of the 10 best point guards ever, Jason Kidd, discounting the value of a point guard for three weeks. It's pretty good. Makes you think he was trying to get Nico Harrison fired. It doesn't add up. It does not add up. It does not add up at all. But maybe the thinking is I am the point guard, right? As the coach, I will manipulate the pieces on the board and control everything I can control and just have my reasonable facsimile, D 'Angelo Russell, classic traditional point guard, who now cannot play on the court without a point guard chaperone.

43:27Maybe that was the thinking, but did not work out regardless. This would be another fun Alvarado team, by the way. Memphis number 18. A lot of signs of life. The moment Zach Eadie came back, Wells is playing again, Coward looks great, and it's one of those things where it's like, A, I don't know if I care if John Moran comes back. And then B, it's like, would you think about trading Jaron Jackson and just trying to get more picks and building around young guys? And I don't know. Do you need Jaron Jackson on this team? Do you like Jaron Jackson as like a high asset? Are you a Jaron Jackson fan?

44:07I am still a fan. I think in part, I mean, what he is defensively is clearly potentially transformative for a lot of teams. I also think as far as bigs go, his ability to drive, not just like shoot, but actually drive out of those situations is incredibly useful. And it diversifies what Memphis does when he's out there. Like, I like the element that he brings to this team to a degree where I'm not rushing to get rid of Jaron necessarily either. they do need some guard though whether that's John Morant or eventually Scottie Pippen or eventually Ty Jerome like one of those guys will eventually play and that'll probably help them because God bless Vince Williams moonlighting at point guard I love that and winning games and doing it it's been an incredible process but I don't know that that's anyone's dream of what this team looks like weirdly fun league pass team I think Edie is a huge part of that though yeah like and that's the thing because before the early returns on Zach Edie and his NBA career felt a little novel to me.

45:02It was like, you know, they would feed him in the post, he would get points. And then in other ways, both defensively and on the board, sometimes, to be honest with you, would end up giving back a lot of those points. And so it was like, is this guy an actual difference maker in the NBA? I mean, he's been the Grizzlies best player in the vast majority of these games. He's like really changing the way that everyone around him is playing in a way that feels pretty sustainable, feels like something that the Grizzlies can rely on for potentially a long time. Like this is a different guy than we saw last year.

45:31It's a bummer Charlotte passed on him at six a year ago, because he's kind of exactly who'd be the fun missing piece for that team. And it was kind of dumb that they didn't take him or Klingon anyway. Yeah, the only thing I was thinking with Jackson, if you're the Hawks and you're not getting Giannis unless Jalen Johnson is in the trade, I don't think. And I'm not trading Jalen Johnson in a Giannis trade where I also have to give up that New Orleans pick. Like I just, what's the point of trading for Giannis if I can't then try to win the title with Giannis? I'm not, I'm not giving away everything I have.

46:06So Giannis can be in a slightly better position than he's in with the Bucs. But if I could flip Porzingis's expiring and that New Orleans pick, and maybe one other pick for Jaron Jackson and put him in the defense, his ceiling on defense with some of the other guys I have. Yeah. That's pretty interesting. And then if I'm Memphis and I could have a chance, I'm not going anywhere anyway, and I have a chance to get a top five pick and kind of move away from this model that doesn't work anymore anyway, I'm thinking about it. So if you're Atlanta in that scenario, are you looking to play Jackson at the five or are you looking to play Johnson, Jackson, and Kongu all together?

46:53I Okongwu is my backup center my crunch time lineup I just have length and switchability everywhere now yeah right it's like I'm just and Jackson can do some of the stretch stuff that Porzingis does but defensively is just a different animal right and now the the no Trey Hawks there's a there's a couple lineups you could put out there that's like Jesus you know I don't know I kind of dig it I hadn't really I hadn't really thought about Jaron Jackson as a fit for them, but he does kind of play into the way that they're kind of styled right now. Yeah. Doesn't help. I think their rebounding is going to be the issue for them in the playoffs, and he's not helping that because he's a terrible rebounder for his position.

47:37Yeah. Number 17, Philly. Just a quickie question. Do you have, I think for All-NBA, Jokic and SGA and Luka have to be the three. Yep. If they're eligible, we should say. True. Giannis, I don't know if he's going to play enough games. But is Maxey right now in Penn as a first-team NBA guy for you? I think he's going to end up one by default just because between Wemby and potentially Luka and potentially Giannis, those guys getting disqualified, Maxey has made a compelling case as anyone else in the league, basically. Would you have him... So let's say it's Maxey against Cade and Brunson and Ant.

48:15Is he the leader of those four? Because for me, I give him a slight edge because I just think what he's done day-to-day and the burden he has on that team and how many minutes he's playing and everything he has to do night to night and the joy he has and what an awesome teammate he seems like. I just, to me, he would be the number one guy. Some of the Knicks fans would be like, that's not fair, Brunson. The Detroit fans would be like, that's not fair. We're winning with Cade. I think Cade probably has the best argument, but I honestly would have Maxie over all those guys. I think Cade is the best argument and is obviously the best player of that group just in a vacuum.

48:49And yet I'm with you. I think Maxie, I think ultimately for me, it would probably come down to Cade and Maxie because of how much Cade is driving. And as you said, how much the Sixers are relying on Maxie to the point where there's really no question whose team that is anymore, like where the future of Philadelphia's basketball lies. It's all Tyrese Maxie. And I mean, Vijay Edgecombe and the other guards to a certain extent, but he's shifted them in an entirely new direction and gear. to do what he's done and to basically eradicate the Embiid and George contracts where Sixers fans don't even really care because they have Maxine Edgecombe is just an amazing achievement is Jaywin a second team All-NBA for you?

49:31is who? is it Jalen Brown? has he been one of the 10 best players for you? I want to talk about him for sure to me he has to be in if he's not second he's definitely third I think it's probably going to depend on that dogfight of how much of a glut is there for the second team. Here's what's shocking about Jalen. I mean, Giannis isn't playing enough. Jalen has a case for being the best forward in the league right now. Case for the best forward in the league. It's centers and guards across the boards. It's basically him versus... Luka's not a forward, right? I don't think so, no. Jalen Johnson Scotty Barnes Towns if you consider Towns a forward it's like a weird forward situation here because we don't have Tatum but it's really all guards and centers and I think Jalen is the best pure forward in the league right now go through all the rosters well did you say KD?

50:32KD I guess yeah I had him in but I don't think KD's been one of the 10 best players like I think Jalen's been more impactful than KD this year. Jalen's been going toe-to-toe with the best players in the league for three weeks, you know, as like the only real star on his roster. And he's like night after night has answered it. I've been really impressed. Tremendous. And I think shifting from, obviously he's been a very good scorer for a long time, but a little more of a come-and-go, score-and-bursts-and-runs kind of guy. Becoming just one of the most reliable first option creators basically in the entire league in terms of like an every-night basis, putting up damn near 30 a night.

51:09The fact that the Celtics now have another one of those guys is pretty ridiculous for when Tatum comes back. It's been just a remarkable trajectory for Jalen Brown from a season where I expected the excess, but thought it would come at more of a cost. And he's just been everything they've needed him to be. I'm stunned by this move that he has now where he fakes like he's driving to the basket with his right hand and does the stop, the bend down, crossover, fallback, 12, 13 footer. It's unstoppable. And it's not a move that he really had until this year. He tried to do it for, but his dribble was always too high.

51:47He would get picked. And he was like, and either I'm shooting threes, I'll shoot a 20 footer if I'm open or I'm going to the basket. And that was kind of his offensive game. And now he has this sophisticated, he's averaging 16 two point shots a night. Like think about that, not even threes, but in, and he's shooting almost 50%. So he's turned into this DeRozan, Kawhi kind of two-point shooter. I just think he's been awesome. And he's carried the load. We'll talk about the Celtics in a second. Phoenix, I have at 16 in the signs of human life just because they're over under his 31. The Brooks thing is incredible.

52:25And Brooks has become now the most underrated player of the decade. It's just like Dylan Brooks wins. You can't refute it. Never refute it. Definitely changes the thing. I don't really fully understand the Phoenix thing. I mean, they're only, they're 14 and 10 or 15 and 10. I think they're 14 and 10. 14 and 10. The Gillespie piece is the part I don't understand the most because they actually needed him last year. And there were moments where he looked good, but then Bud just never played him. Yeah. And now when you watch him, he looks like he could be an all-star. I know he won't, but you know what I mean?

52:58Like he's way more talented than they gave him credit for last year when they actually needed him. I never understand that. I mean, they beat the Wolves last night without Devin Booker because Colin Gillespie turned into a fourth quarter supernova. And that's just been a kind of a regular occurrence where he's been an incredible shooter. He's, I mean, turned out, especially for his size, the playmaking has been really impressive. Like he sees lobs and cross court stuff that guards his size usually don't. Really, really impressed. Honestly, with his ball movement, but really the Suns overall. Like I know their defense gets a lot of attention because of Dylan Brooks and kind of the edge they play with now.

53:30but this is a group of guys who either weren't on the team or weren't in these roles a la Colin Gillespie who stepped in this season and just like knew like that exactly how to play together like they just got the angles the cuts the timing really remarkable and very surprising given the players that they were able to cobble together there but it's just kind of worked and the coach is doing a great job I feel like we have more good coaches than we might have had at any point this century where I look around the league and I'm like, that guy's a good coach. Yeah, that team's really well put together.

54:05We don't have a lot of Doug Christie's, I guess is my point. I feel like the general rules are always, there are like five exemplary coaches who really help you a lot. And there's five at the bottom that really kind of drag you down. And everyone else is sort of in the soft, you know, middle of the bell curve or whatever. Now the bell curve seems higher, right? It's higher. And there's like maybe one or two guys in the league in terms of the bottom end of coaches. If that, I think the low hanging fruit has just been picked up by basically every team out there to the point that there's only so much you can do to really shoot your team in the foot.

54:36We also have a couple coaches I think have in career years, like Missoula, Spoh. There's people who are just like doing, like I think JJ's been really good. I don't understand the Lakers record at all with some of the limitations they have. Some of the bad teams, like the Nets coach is really good. I think the Raptors coach, I think that team's overachieved. All right, one more break and then we'll do the top 15. All right, we'll rip through the Trade Machine crew really quickly because we've talked about these teams already on my pod a bunch. Toronto's 15-10. They fell back to earth a little.

55:05They had some easy schedule stuff the first part. I'm still not sure about this team. Their fans were really chirpy when the record was good. That settled down a little bit. The most important thing to me is that Barnes just feels it still feels like he's gone up a level and this is the most I've liked watching him. Ultimately, I'm not sure what the destiny of this team is. Their bench seems like it saves their ass a bunch with Shed and Mamou and Agbaje, all these Dick, they'll come in and they'll be down 10, all of a sudden they'll be up 8. I'm not sure what the move is with them either because I think it would be hard for them to make trades.

55:49This is kind of their team, but they should be in that 6-9 range, right? Somewhere in there. I don't think they're a top 5 team. Golden State, they're... I think they have enough good players the Raptors do and like salaries that could actually be cobbled together to get something important back that you kind of have to talk about them with it when any of these like big potential deals come up. Golden State 13 and 12.

56:13They're just too old. they are too old and the Kaminga thing is now a catastrophe I mean it's just going to be worse and they seem everybody seems to think they can trade him on January 15th for something why am I trading for Kaminga? why do I want to pay him$22 million a year? like the Warriors won't even play him and they need somebody like him and he's not even playing anymore I think this is the thing that would worry me the most about trading for him is not like he can't be a superstar or can't be a team player or whatever. It's he goes to these stretches where he'll start the season and play four games doing what you want him to do as a team.

56:52And then he'll just be off in the wilderness for 20 games. Like he just does not have it in him in terms of the patience and the focus and the commitment to play consistently winning basketball. And that's why you see even like Steph, Steph has been out. Draymond's been out. Jimmy Butler's been in and out. They've been resting a bunch of guys. This should be Jonathan Kuminga time. And instead it is Pat Spencer time. I think that's just like a damning, it's a damning situation all around in terms of where he, I would say where he finds himself, but it's really where he put himself. Do you feel like Draymond's at the same level he's been at in the past?

57:26I do not. I don't either. Still really good. I wonder if that's a bigger issue for them. And I think it has more to do with the league just got so much bigger that just philosophically that 2017 type lineup that the Warriors could throw, or maybe earlier that 2015, I don't know if that's doable anymore with the centers we have in the league. It's like, oh, good, we're playing Zach Eady tonight. Oh, here's Shangoon. I just don't think it's sustainable in the same way. So you almost need him as a four playing with a center. But if that center can't shoot either, now I have two non-shooters in a league where everybody loves space.

58:07And I just, I wonder if that's almost a bigger issue for them than Kaminga. Kaminga, whatever, it's 22 million a year. If he plays, he doesn't play. But figuring, unlocking that Draymond part, because he does so many good things from a team defense standpoint, but the rebounding combined with the lack of size, I think it's a real issue for them. the ship has sailed but they won in 22 that's the thing they won an unbelievable title they answered everything Atlanta number 13 we've talked about them and then Miami at number 12 two Miami things they're 14 and 10 really really fun league pass this year team which is shocking the Norm Powell thing I he was so huge for the Clippers last year and then the playoffs was up and down and then the feedback from the Clippers side was like we didn't want to pay him an extension he would have been a problem all year and he goes to Miami and immediately becomes the same 25 point a game of score he was in the first half of the Clippers season you can run crunch time offense through him he's great against good teams like the better the team is the better he is and that Collins and Beal combo for Powell, like almost single-handedly explains the Clippers season.

59:28Like they basically just gave away 10 points a game. Kawhi insurance for when Kawhi never plays. An extra crunch time guy. A guy who sucks the Clippers fan. Like you can literally explain the entire Clippers demise with that trade. Why? And honestly, it's not just the Clippers too. I feel like the Blazers had their version of this. The Raptors had their version of this with Norm Powell. This is just like so many teams that have talked themselves out of, oh, this guy just scores all the time every time he touches the ball. Granted, don't trust this. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, sometimes doesn't always pass a lot.

1:00:01At times earlier in his career, especially was more of a liability defensively, but I think it's really worked on that part of his game. Has just become a dead eye shooter, a go-to scorer. And this is where, as I'm getting into like, you know, we're almost in all-star season, Bill, as far as like penciling in our teams. It looks like there's probably only going to be room for one member of the Miami Heat. It has to be Powell. Does it have to be? For me, it does. Yeah, it has to be. I think Bam is a better player than Norm Powell. And ultimately, the Heat are still a defense first team that is winning mostly on that side of the ball.

1:00:36But Powell is also riding the wave of everything in terms of their reinvented offense. And it's so symbolic of why they feel different this year that I'm with you. I think he's going to get a lot of votes, but I'm not just ready to rule out Bam's importance in all this too. Well, it's also, what are we at? The 25 game mark. We still have, when do we have to vote? We have like 12 more. Yeah, at least I would hope. My other question, because, you know, if they could trade the Rozier contract, it puts them in play for a bunch of players, whether Kawhi Leonard, who we mentioned earlier, Giannis, the high end, Jaron Jackson, I mentioned, name a player they're in play for.

1:01:18But if you can take the$26 million expiring where's your contract? Put it with one or two other assets. Now you can mix and match anybody. I could try to get Trey Murphy. We'll take Jordan Poole's contract with Trey Murphy. We'll throw these contracts back and all our picks, whatever it is, you can get whoever you want. So, and I did a deep dive on this. Unclear if Charlotte knew about the investigation when they traded him. They've never said publicly. My guess is they knew. These teams always know. so they trade him to Miami. Odds are they knew he was being investigated for a gambling scandal.

1:01:54That's pretty fucked up. Yes. That's like when OKC traded Jeff Green to the Celtics and knew he was hurt. Teams will do this from time to time. This is pretty fucked up. Well, this is why you're getting the chatter about is there going to be some kind of recompense to the Heat as a result? Would they be getting some of the pick back or some of the protection back? Right. That was going to be my second thing. it doesn't seem like Miami can get the pick back but it seems like they should and I don't want to defend the Heat because I hate the Heat but I think it's unfair it's their 27 first round pick and it's crazy that they're not going to have that pick because they traded for Rozier who was under a gambling investigation and the other team didn't tell them they should get the pick back and if they got the pick back that unlocks the rest of their first round picks 26, 27, 28, 29 They can do, at that point, you can really go after whoever.

1:02:49But the other piece is, they don't know if they can trade him yet until they actually put him in a trade. And the other team agrees. And then the league decides whether they can put him in a trade or not. But the league won't tell them until the trade is. It's like, why are you penalizing these guys for trading for a guy under false pretenses? I've never seen the league fuck over a team like this. like this decade. I think it's really weird. I mean, just a very cool situation all around from the gambling scandal to now all of like the web implications for all these other teams. It's ridiculous.

1:03:25It almost feels like they're punishing Harrison a little bit. And I don't really understand that part either. I don't understand it. I mean, the weirdest thing that ever happened in the league was when the great Reggie Lewis died with the Celtics. And David Stern made them carry his cap figure for the next three years of the contract. I did not realize that happened. Yeah. They carried it 94, 95, 96. When you have like these other things where it's like an injury exception, we could get, like they just made them care. And that was everybody in Boston felt like that was just a fuck you to the Celtics.

1:04:00This feels like a fuck you to the heat. And I don't really fully understand it. Yeah. How are there so many ways to get cap relief, all kinds of relief in terms of your team building flexibility? Like there's a lot of mechanisms teams have to work with right now. And yet there is no answer for the fact that we're staring down a massive gambling scandal in a league where gambling is only getting more prevalent. And this is not the last time something like this is going to happen. And so honestly, the league should take this opportunity to iron out what the protocols are because this stuff isn't going away.

1:04:30And what is the conversation when like, so Pat Riley calls silver or Arison calls silver. Let's say Arison calls silver. He's like, yo, my guys told me, we don't know if we can trade this Rozier thing or not. I just want to check with you. This seems crazy. So we don't know if we can trade him until we complete the trade. And then you guys tell us if we can include him. And Sober's like, yeah. Yeah. Just a lot of no comment from the league office. A lot of shrugging. Can you give us a hint? Like, would you approve the trade? I can't like it's just an insane situation alright top 11 the wild cards Orlando 14 and 10 every time you feel like good things are starting to happen for them something bad happens although at least Franz didn't blow his knee out yes that in itself is a good thing Zach floated this out on his pod on Thursday and I was instantly jealous of it he told me on the phone he was going to do it I was like fuck that's a good one and it can't happen under the cap until this summer but I just thought as a thought experience.

1:05:37The Giannis for Palo, straight up, who says no, is probably the best who says no in the league right now. Like, if it was available, would Orlando say fuck it and just do it? And it's about as big of an age disparity as we've had for a major trade. Like, it's the Mitch Richmond, Chris Webber trade kind of on acid. I think I would do it if I was Orlando. And I think I would do it if I was Milwaukee. Just fundamentally, let's forget the cap, all the other components. It can't happen anyway, but just fundamentally, I would do it if I was both teams. I think my general standing is I would almost always trade for Giannis.

1:06:19Like there's really very few teams where I'm like, I don't want that guy. Or like, I think this is one of those cases where part of my brain is saying, no, like trading Giannis leans into the same kind of spacing problems that Orlando already has. And the other part of my brain, which thankfully is much louder, is saying this is fucking Giannis Antetokounmpo. and if you can trade for him, you trade for him and you figure out all the other stuff later. And with Paolo, who is immensely talented, he's just surrounded by all kinds of questions as to what the best version of him will look like or can he get there or even just something like the speed and the pace at which he plays.

1:06:51There's still a lot kind of hanging up in the air. There's nothing hanging up in the air with Giannis to a point where I would feel, I mean, of course, you feel a little dicey about trading anyone that talented that young, but if you're going to do it, you do it for someone like Giannis. The nine-year age gap, but it's a really interesting one. Number 10, Cleveland, 14 and 11, net rating of three. I have no fucking idea how this team has 11 losses. It's inexplicable. They don't seem like the happiest team. No. Have we reached peak Mitchell or Garland? It's time to choose. Is there a choice? Have we reached the peak?

1:07:31What is the choice? Pick one, trade the other. No, but I'm saying like Donovan Mitchell is dragging this team around. And Darius Garland, even when he's out there right now, does not look like the Darius Garland that we know and love. And so I fully expect that version to be back at some point. But when? And is he going to be the kind of guy you can rely on to be healthy versus Mitchell's been one of the best players in the league? Counter, you could get a shitload for Mitchell. And then you bet on Garland. I mean, obviously the move is to trade Garland. Yeah. I don't know who the suitor is for it.

1:08:09And if I'm having meetings about, should we trade for Garland? I'm looking at all the injuries he's had. Oh, yeah. All were pretty fluky. Yep. They weren't like all these wear and tear, like there's something structurally wrong, like in bead style injuries. They're more like, oh, that's a shame that that one happened. Yeah. It's more like breaking bones in your face. You know, like there's just stuff that happens to him that I agree. There's not like a chronic track record, but stuff does happen to him. I'd be trying to trade for him if I was another team. This would be somebody I would be targeting who's like, there's blood in the water.

1:08:42Let's go get this. The thing is, it's really hard with Cleveland because it has to be almost a perfect trade. Or it has to be a team that can take him and give Cleveland less back, which is why, look, I can't pretend to figure out what the Brooklyn Nets, how they approach stuff day-to-day, week-to-week. but to me this is like a perfect Brooklyn Nets situation where they're like 15 under the cap they could move a piece back save Cleveland some money get them under the apron where now that maybe they can do a second trade send some picks that way and basically make a bet on Garland as like a guy going forward that's what I would do I still feel like Garland can be that guy I feel like he can be the face of a franchise I don't know if he can be one of the 15 best players in the league but I think he can be a guy that on a really good team could be your second or third best guy?

1:09:36Because we've seen it. He's already done it. I like him much better on other teams, frankly. Me too. I think he might just need a fresh start. He might need, honestly, alluding to this kind of guard and guard conversation, maybe more of the keys, maybe more opportunity to kind of find his footing with all of that usage. That might be a thing for him. But as it stands, I'm almost surprised that you lumped in the Cavs as a wild card because there's not a lot of wild happening with this team. like they feel inert they have too much talent I can't rule we've just seen it happen too many times where a team was slogging along for 25 games and then the light bulb went off and they have been massively injured like they've been missing multiple guys in basically every game so it's like that is a qualifier but at the same time and roll guys and you know there's guys that I feel like like DeAndre Hunter I'm not sure this is the right team for him there's more subtle moves they can make um um it's funny.

1:10:33You meant what you said about Garland. I am in the stealth. I feel that way about Austin Reeves as well. Camp. Hmm. I love Austin Reeves when LeBron's not playing. Yeah. But when all three of them are playing, all of a sudden Austin Reeves is not as impactful or whatever, because he's on the same team with Luka Doncic and LeBron James. Sure. Yeah. Game the other night, we had 11 points. And this is a guy who was averaging 29, but he's just the third option. Um, um, is there a Reeves and a ton of picks and other stuff for Giannis? Anything? If Giannis was like, I want to go to the Lakers, that's where I've decided I want to go.

1:11:14You told me to pick my team. I've picked my team and it's the Lakers. Is there enough with a Reeves as a headliner with all their picks that get your attention or is that a hangup? Can you get there salary wise? You would have to really patch together all their expirings. to get there. Vanderbilt, Kleber, I mean, Gabe Vincent, you'd have to really throw them all together. How insane is it that both of these conversations are happening where you are saying LeBron James, maybe the greatest player of all time, is getting in the way of Austin Reeves being Austin Reeves, which I both agree with and not.

1:11:49Like, I think he's had a couple more games lately where it's like... It's a usage rate thing though, Rob. Completely. Like, that's an... Nuka's one of the highest usage rate guys in the decade and you have LeBron James, he should have the ball. Yep. So now Reeves is kind of over here. But part of his job is to put up 30 a game when LeBron is out. It's part of the modulation of what makes him valuable. But the other part of this is we are earnestly floating Austin Reeves as the primary return in a Giannis trade. And I'm not walking out of the room right now. He's averaging 29 a game. It's insane.

1:12:23He's been awesome. It's a relatively small sample size. It's like 104 minutes. But when LeBron, Luka, and Reeves all play together, this year, they're minus 8.9. Not ideal. Kind of backed up what I'm watching because it is a little clumsy. You have three guys who are, you know, Reeves ideally, I love when he has the ball. I love when he's like the main creator. It's just not going to happen with those other two guys anyway. Okay. So I'm more bullish on Cleveland maybe turning this around than you, it sounds like. I would love to see it. I just don't think we've seen like any kind of spark that's going to lead to that yet.

1:12:59Maybe it'll still happen though. What actor is Evan Mobley? Where you're like, I know he's going to win the Oscar, but now it's like, oh shit, he's 45 years old when that happened. He's consistently still really good though. You know, it's just like, is he really good in a leading capacity? Is he going to be more of a character type? Where it's like, oh, in Train Dreams, he was great. Might get nominated. Is he a Val Kilmer? Like, does he have that... Val more charisma. Val more charisma. I mean, look, defense has charisma in its own way, you know? True. But I agree with you. He's in a weird spot.

1:13:36How about a jump? One more jump. I think we would all love to see it. One more. Just nudge him along. Alright. Number nine, the sleeper. San Antonio. Let's go. 16-7 and they haven't had Wemby for three weeks. Net rating 3.8.

1:13:55This Dylan Harper thing.

1:14:00Wow. Speak on it. What are you seeing? I was thinking about all-time situations where somebody had this crazy luxury of somebody who is clearly going to be awesome, like maybe even like Hall of Fame awesome, and they don't really need him in the early part of their career, and anything he does is like a bonus. And it was like the Celtics were in this situation with the McHale, where he was like, There were games he didn't even play crunch time for the first couple years. This is one of the 50 best players of all time. Rodman on the Pistons was like this. But you have this crazy, talented, monster asset.

1:14:39Yeah. And it's like, oh, you're going to do something that awesome. That'll be great. He can do so many things offensively already. And he looks like he's 25. Some of the moves, you can't even remember when you're watching what hand he shoots with. he's so comfortable bouncing off people and getting to the rim and I'm just absolutely in love with him as a player I fucking love Dylan Harper what a pick what a fucking miracle for them he just gets into the lane about as easily as anybody in the league right now and it's not it's not all brute force it's not all pure speed you're right like he is just kind of bouncing between people the footwork is really great just like a really clever player and he's gonna have to figure out some of like the big picture stuff on running a team Like that's just a natural part of the evolution.

1:15:27But for him to be in this like low stakes role, as you're saying, where he can just come in and be himself, it's hard not to be blown away by that on a nightly basis. Really competitive. It's funny watching him. It's like in football, you see all these running backs and then there's like three running backs every year that are just different than all the other guys. Like it's like Jameer Gibbs right now, where you're like, that guy's just different. Like if he's in space, he's breaking it. If he's, you think that he's going to get tackled behind the line. He got out of it. They just move differently and cut differently, which is what it's like watching him.

1:16:00He cuts and moves like a running back. It doesn't even really seem like a basketball player to me sometimes, but that guy is just... To get that dude at number two after getting Wemby is one of the bigger combo miracles we've seen. So for me, it's like I'm doing everything I can if I can get Trey Murphy if I'm them. I'm doing everything possible. Harper's untouchable. Castle's untouchable. Wemby's obviously untouchable. Fox is untouchable. I'm not trading Luke Cornett either. You can have everyone else I have and we can talk picks and all that stuff, but if I can keep that nucleus but add Trey Murphy to it, I can make a real run at OKC, not this year, but maybe a year or two years from now.

1:16:43That would be my goal. It would have to be a picks-based conversation, I think. Because I also love Devin Vassell for this team, and he's been awesome lately in particular during this offensive swoon where they've just been blowing teams out, really just outscoring teams, frankly. He's been really important to that formula. But you're right. But couldn't he be the centerpiece? Do you like Murphy more as an asset for this team than Basel? Because I would rather have Murphy. I would rather have both is what I'm saying. If there's a way to engineer it where it's a more picks-oriented return for New Orleans.

1:17:13And if that's enough to dangle in front of them, the problem, as you'd mentioned earlier in some of the trade conversations with the Spurs, like, are their picks going to be valuable? Like, are San Antonio's own draft assets actually that enticing to teams anymore? I would think you would have to hesitate if you're a team like the Pelicans. They have an Atlanta pick a year from now, and they have a Dallas pick a couple years from now. Yeah, swap, I think. Yeah, swap. They have a Celtics pick a couple years from now, but you're right. They don't have that, like, killer pick, which is why I think they would have to put somebody good in it.

1:17:43But, all right. One more quick break and then we got to talk about the Celtics.

1:18:16All right, we're down to the top eight. And somehow we have not mentioned the Boston Celtics yet, who I have in their own category called the one comeback away contender. And that comeback is Jason Tatum. The Celtics are 15 to 9 with a plus 7.2 net rating. They are second in offensive rating. They are first in threes made and 30th in pace and 30th in free throw attempts. Nemeas Kata is plus 16.7. He's so good. Jordan Walsh looks like he might be a first-team ball defense guy the way this is going. He got DMPs the first month of the season. Yeah. I have my take on what's going on here, but I want to hear yours first.

1:19:01My take. I've been struggling for the unifying theory of the Boston Celtics. What is happening here? Because this isn't even pandering at this point. This isn't even you playing the Celtics too closely to your heart. They are legitimately one of the best teams in the league right now for reasons that are often a little elusive. What I've come down on is this. I think what they do, and a lot of their success is driven by how successful they've been offensively right now, as you mentioned. They win the possession battle almost every night. The combination of a lot of offensive rebounding and not turning the ball over.

1:19:37They have all these extra possessions. and then they just like stretch that margin by taking as many threes as they do. And so they take what should be like an incremental advantage and blow it out. And if you have - 16 a game, Rob. They're making 16 threes a game. It's bad. It's not like they have the greatest shooters in the world. They have good shooters, but what they have is a commitment to taking them and a commitment to generating them as has been kind of the Missoula style for a long time running now. But that combination of like, if you have elite possession gaining talent and enough shooters to at least make this kind of engine work, I think that can clearly take you to some interesting places.

1:20:15I agree with everything you said. It's basically a system. So if you're thinking like, how did they stumble into the perfect, nobody believes in us, overachieving NBA blueprint that we've seen from time to time, right? We saw with the 2016 Celtics. We saw with the 03 Pistons. We saw with the 2011 Grizzlies. fundamentally you still need a really good player leading it. This isn't happening unless you have one really good player. And they have one of the best 12 to 15 guys in the league and Jalen having his best season ever. They have an absolute lunatic as a coach. One of the most overcompetitive guys in the league who's just a full-fledged, absolute lunatic who all he wants his team to do is win.

1:20:57So they're never going to tank. And he has an idea of how they should play. But the biggest thing to me as I watch them game to game, if you go through their top 11, every single guy has something to prove. Every single guy has some sort of hunger for something. So it's like Jalen Brown, Tatum's not here. I've always thought I could carry a team like this. So he's in. Derek White, I've always thought I could do a little more offensively. Here we go. Same for Pritchard. Simons, contract here. Kata, I've never gotten a chance. Hauser, finally getting more minutes. You go on down the line. Jordan Walsh.

1:21:34Yeah. I would fucking kill somebody to play 25 minutes a game. Hugo, I'm 19. I'm a rookie. Josh Minot. Thank God I'm finally playing basketball. There isn't a single guy in this team who's not like, I'm so happy to be part of this and I will fucking kill myself for us to win games. And you can feel it game to game. And I think that's made the difference because they're going toe to toe against everybody. The only team, like there's a Houston Rockets type team that they're just going to be pretty helpless against. Like teams with real size and rebounding, it's just, they just don't have enough.

1:22:10But they figured out how to play these wings that just all of them are maniac. Like Hugo's a maniac. They put him against Towns last week and Towns was like, you could see Towns like, where did this guy come from? Did you let him out of a cage? What happened here? they just, they have a bunch of maniacs, Rob. Yeah, I think, look, the top end of the rotation where I talked about Jalen Brown, him locking down that spot, as you mentioned, hugely important. The middle part of their rotation, I think we all more or less bought in on, right? Like the Derek Whites, the Peyton Pritchards, like those are not the guys you worry about.

1:22:45To me, a lot of this team's success is the trifecta of Jordan Walsh, Josh Minot, Hugo Gonzalez. Like, it's not, like normally when you take three flyers like that, maybe one guy hits, but they've all, been good in various ways at different points in the season and sometimes overlapping all at the same time and they're all just enormously active I mean Gonzalez is a case in point where I'm trying to get used to his game at the beginning of the season and trying to decide is this is just a guy who runs around a lot or is he actually accomplishing things but the level of activity is just warping plays it's starting to get in people's heads like it's starting to actually like speed things up for players on the floor and I think you have that intensity from Walsh.

1:23:27You have Minot, whose length can be incredibly disruptive and so all of a sudden, you have this roulette wheel of energy players who all are slightly different and I think that honestly really helps hold this rotation together in a lot of ways. I think it's a little disorienting for teams, especially if you're not seeing a playoff series and it's just on the schedule and you played this team, this team, now you're playing this. It reminded me, you might not have seen the Texans-Chiefs game on Sunday night. I somehow missed that one. Yeah, I figured you missed it. but the Texans have the best defense in the league and they're just hitting the shit out of the Chiefs.

1:23:59And then the fourth quarter, the Chiefs had a couple of big drops. And the reason they had the drops was because, you know, the guys have eyes in the back of their heads because they're getting absolutely nailed the whole game. And after a while, you get a little jittery. You can feel it happening a little with the Celts in some of these games where it's like, we took Jordan Walsh out, that guy who's been flying around like a maniac. Now here's Hugo and he comes in and he's a maniac for 10 minutes. And then Minots. So there's something about it. And Missoula's like, go, go, go. But they've been really good for four weeks here.

1:24:32How is it possible? And playing good teams. As you're describing the Texans' defense, how is it possible that the Rockets and the Texans are just the same team right now? Like, how is that a thing that's feasible? Yeah, if the Texans could offensive rebound, they actually would. Yeah, so adding Tatum to this, and it's the perfect way to add him where it's like, will give you Shireman's minutes. Right? Will ease you in with like 20 minutes a game. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure he'll be an upgrade. Although I do, I think Shireman's been okay too. Anyway, this is... I need to say, just as a matter of like discretion and responsibility, Jason Tatum should not play this season.

1:25:08Like just, this team is... Really? This team is good, but also... But if he's ready to play, why wouldn't he play? Like, so here's the case. Drew Smith, Drew Smith got hurt on December 23rd. Same exact injury. Sure. and was playing in time mid-October for the Heat. It was a 10-month injury for them. Maybe it was a nine-and-a-half-month injury. And Tatum even had the surgery faster than he did and has been a maniac working out. I think it might be a 10-month injury now if you're ready. So 10 months for Tatum would be all-star break. And I don't know, if you're him, why wouldn't you play? He, I'm sure, wants to play.

1:25:44I'm not saying Jason Tatum isn't working for it or won't be physically ready, like meeting the bare minimum threshold of what is required to return. I'm just thinking about Jason Tatum and what he does on the floor. And it's the explosiveness, even of just like his creating separation off the dribble. It's his ability to switch and handle bigger players defensively and like the flexibility that he provides you and all of that workload that it puts on your lower body. Like he's so important to the team. And this is all great as a one season, amazing story. Jalen Brown leap, all these great developmental subplots.

1:26:20This is great. But if he re-injures something in the process of coming back too soon, that is just about the worst possible case for this Celtics season. So maybe I'm erring on the side of caution, but I think this team is good enough to just let it ride and have fun with the lower stakes of not having Jason Tatum involved. I think the luxury they have is they can wait until they feel like he's actually legitimately 100 % and then wait another month. But I still think he should come back because otherwise he's not playing in a member. 19 months off doing anything I don't think is great. That might be true.

1:26:57And I would rather see him just play. He's going to play basketball anyway. He's going to want to test his leg. He's going to want to go. You might as well do it for 20 minutes a game. It's an interesting conundrum, but it's certainly like they went, I went there the first, I watched that Washington game and I was like, they should tank. I can't believe some of the guys that are playing big minutes. Like, what are we doing? And now it's like, whoa, what happens? in February, especially when you look at the East, you don't like anybody. The one move away contenders. Number seven, the Lakers, 17-6.

1:27:25Yeah. What should their record be, just in your opinion? Do they feel like a 17-6 team to you? I mean, it's... Or do they feel like a 15-8 type of team? 14-9? Yeah. What would, in your head, do they feel that good? They don't quite feel this good. And I think that speaks to their season being a little surprising, right? It's Reeves really popping off. It's Luka looking, I mean, just even better than you could have expected. And some of the role guys like really hanging together, despite the fact that this is not a roster that has a lot of depth to it. At the same time, like they've, they've earned it.

1:27:57Like they've, they've pulled off these wins and they clearly have something that is like a little bit greater than the sum of its parts happening there. Maybe that's a credit to Luca or JJ or Austin or whoever you want to attribute it to, but they, they don't quite feel 17 and six, but who am I to argue with what they've done? The thing I would worry about if I was them is just the eight and turn it into a pumpkin. He's now hit the point where the Laker fans seem like they actually trust him a little bit. And that's usually where it's gotten to be in the world. The most dangerous place to be with DeAndre Hayden.

1:28:27So just be careful. Minnesota 15-9. Before we do Minnesota, I want to say one thing about Luka really quick. Yeah. I think we're broadly like all, you know, reveling in his season. He's going to be an MVP candidate if he's eligible, all that stuff. But like when he is right like this, every drive he makes ends in points. And it's like, striking to see just like the the methodical nature of it again at this like at this volume where I just think he's looked better this year than ever before somehow despite the fact that he's already coming from a final standard an MVP candidate standards like if the defense collapses he's obviously way too good at finding the lob finding the shooters if you get too physical he is the best player in the world right now at drawing fouls and this was the part that blew me away, if you don't foul him, Bill, he is shooting 94 % around the basket.

1:29:1894%. Zero to three feet, right? Zero to three feet. When all of those three things are true, that's how you become 17 and six despite having a roster that may not suggest it. It's how you become a somewhat improbable Western Conference contender, even in a really stacked group. Yeah, I mean, the real reason you're 17 and six is your best two guys were averaging 63 points a game. I don't even think that was possible. Yeah, there's... I can't believe I'm saying this, but I feel like this team's pretty close to being the other Western Finals team if something weird happened with Denver just because of how good Luka's been.

1:29:58And it seems like LeBron, who I'm not sure wanted to be there at the end of the year because he didn't want to be on somebody else's team, but now is starting to see... Oh, actually at this stage of my career, I'm probably the best possible. This is the best possible use of me. Everybody wins. Maybe I can figure this out and use my chess master brain. So there's something here, but I still feel like there's a guy short. I don't know what the trade is. They have some expirings. They have some picks. So we'll see. Minnesota number six, 15 and nine. It's just not a team. It's a team that with the point guards they have and the amount of responsibility they have on Edwards' shoulders, I don't think is sustainable for three playoff rounds, much less four.

1:30:42I agree with you. You need a point guard. Yeah, they need a point guard. They need that stability just a little more. It's not that Ant hasn't done well enough. Or frankly, Dante DiVincenzo has been good. He's just not their point guard. If you lose multiple eight points in the last minute leads, odds are you need a ball handling thing. We can see this coming with Conley. They are the best team in the league that regularly just loses their entire mind. and so like what you want to do with that is up to you but they can they can fight with the best of them and they can lose games that they have no business losing and the league is way better at pressing now too so you can really like get the ball back against them if you want to like oh let's go get the ball yeah Detroit at number five we talked about them 19 and five the only thing I wrote down here was Ivy question mark yeah well I'm still writing out that minutes limit right now it seems like yeah yeah yeah so but long term I think this is their ceiling whether it's seven fours, 10 fours, 14 fours.

1:31:39Can he be awesome for them? Can he be a trade piece to turn into something bigger? Whatever. He's the swing something for them because I like their roster, but I want to see what happens with him. New York number four, 16 and seven, plus 8.2 net rating. Here's my question. Is there any scenario where if the Knicks were in the finals, they could beat one of the three teams in the West, Houston, Denver, OKC? Are they just at a class below those teams? I don't see it. I really don't. I mean, Oklahoma City is, frankly, just way too good for anyone in the East. And I think the particular problems that Denver's size presents and Houston's size presents, you're just like begging for a Carl Anthony Towns 3 ,008 minutes kind of game.

1:32:29It's just putting a lot on him to have to handle. And then it's like, okay, now Mitchell Robinson, like you're put to the front line. OG Ananobi, you're having to guard Nikola Jokic all of a sudden. Like it's just a lot to put on those guys in a way that I know their defense has been better lately. It's also been better because they've had a little bit of a cupcake schedule and that's great in terms of getting everything right. But then you have to go do it against some of the best teams in the Western Conference and I don't see that in them just yet. We agree. Now if I switch towns for AD, and AD is healthy, do you You feel differently.

1:33:03Does Anthony Davis, and I say this with the greatest respect, Anthony Davis is an amazing player, do literally anything against Nikola Jokic. Like that is a matchup he can't win. And so I think it helps against Houston for sure. Maybe it even helps somewhat against OKC. I think Denver, weirdly, that doesn't really change anything at all for them. I think I agree. So sadly, the Knicks making the finals will be the win this year. And then they need some sort of luck. The contenders, number three, Houston, 15-6, plus 10.8. Second in the league. Number two, Denver, 17-6, plus 8.6. Doing it without really important guys for the last couple weeks.

1:33:45It's actually kind of crazy. They have not had Gordon. They have lost Christian Brown pretty early. And during that time, they've been, I think, the second best offense in the entire league with both of those guys out. The depth is just totally different this year. so I think Denver is the only team that should chase OKC like if they had a chance to turn Cam Johnson and multiple picks into Trey Murphy I would so you don't think Houston's in that group? That was my question if you're Houston do you chase OKC and by the way I have is the prohibitive favorite normally I have the favorite as number one I have the prohibitive favorite as number one OKC 23-1 with a net rating of almost 16 Yeah.

1:34:25Should anyone other than Denver chase OKC this year? Do you just, is it a 2017 Warriors situation where you're like, you know what? We'll see you guys next year. Good luck. Good luck winning the title. Is it even worth it? I think Houston's already chasing. Like, I mean, trading for Kevin Durant means you are chasing this right now and the timer is going off. There's other, there's an extra move that, I mean, they could go all in on the honest move. They could go, there's other things they could do and they could trade assets to try to improve this team. I'm just not sure if that changes their destiny.

1:34:59I also think as constructed, I could see them beating Denver. I don't think that's outside the realm of possibility. I agree with you. Yes, the Thunder are going to be a tough matchup for anybody, but at least play it out. Be as physical as they are. They're just such an imposing team that maybe they really could take. If you're meeting the Thunder late in the playoffs and they've already been worn down by having to play high-level physical competition, And then you have to meet the Rockets in the conference finals. Maybe that's enough. Maybe that's enough to kind of take the wind out of their sails a little bit.

1:35:30Yeah, you beat... You're not going to beat OKC, but if you beat OKC, you're getting weird. You're getting weird because you have Jokic, who's the weirdest star to go against in a playoff series of probably this century. Or you're Houston and you're just like, we just have incredible amounts of size. It's so fun. We're just going to try to overpower you and you can have all your Shea points you want and press us and we'll turn the ball over 20 times. But we're going to have 30 offensive rebounds today. My favorite bit of Rockets weird is like, yes, they are a giant bruising team. And then they have Reed Shepard and Aaron Holiday running around.

1:36:06And I don't think I've seen them miss a three in a month. It's very like the Jim bro with the little Pomeranian running around kind of vibe in Houston. And I really enjoy the physical comedy, I got to say. I'm so happy Reed Shepard's good. We just need more weird old school point guards like that who feel like they came out of... What was that show Willow Bay and Ahmad hosted Inside Stuff? He seems like he's come out of an Inside Stuff reel from 1992. It's like, now watch Reed Shepard against the Charlotte Hornets. OKC, I asked this to Sal on Sunday because it's still like around 5-1. I just think OKC's breaking the 73-win record and I think they're actually going to care about it.

1:36:47But do you see a scenario where they don't? Because it's still like plus 500, which means it's a pretty big long shot by gambling odds. But I don't see how they lose nine times. Do you? Or I guess they would have to lose 10 times. Yeah, it would have to be kind of an inexplicable lull, like where something is just like a little off in late January and all of a sudden they drop three or five games to teams that they wouldn't ordinarily do. But I'm with you. It's hard to imagine this team doing that. We've seen them do it shorthanded. We've seen them do it on off-shooting nights. We've seen them do it basically with every combination of variables against every level of competition already.

1:37:25And they just beat everybody. In order to get to that point, they would have to have one of those unusual stretches. The parlor game that we've been playing on group chat is when will the Thunder lose their first game to an Eastern Conference team? And could they go the entire season blowing out every Eastern Conference opponent? it. And I think it's pretty possible they don't lose to any East team until February at this point. I mean, if that. It's craziness. They remind me of when my daughter was playing club soccer, and we'd have these tournaments. You know, you go away for the weekend, and you'd look at the brackets, and there was one team that was just winning like 9-0, 8-0, 11-1, and you were like, probably not beating that team.

1:38:09This is what they're like. They're like the freaking club soccer juggernaut just destroying everybody. And even when it feels like the game's late, you know, close and gettable late, then Shea just makes four shots in a row in no case he wins. That's crunch time player in the league right now. I don't really know what you do. They have answers for everybody. I do think Denver should chase them, though. And they probably have 15 games here with Cam Johnson to figure out if they can trust him in a playoff series or not. I mean, he looks on course at this point. I think he's really straightened himself out.

1:38:43sure I'd like to see another how many how many games is 15 months a month oh how many games in a month yeah probably reassessing around January 15th like if this guy's in the corner in a game 7 in OKC with a minute left is he making it I'm in that mode because the Bruce Brown thing's been great it's just clear this is the team this is for whatever reason his soulmate team I like the Hardaway randomness Jonas we all knew that was going to work but you know they're just deeper and better and when they get everybody back they're going to be a real problem but the Cam Johnson piece is the one because that's the that's the shot that's going to be open for them and it's been open the whole season teams are like and by the way I love the way Murray's playing it's been incredible Murray's like a borderline in the combo for 13-mile NBA range if you're making teams like he's on the French what's your favorite show of the year?

1:39:44the pit okay that's your gold medalist who's your silver medalist I think probably severance silver medalist I have to think about it but there's something about the like simplicity of the model of the pit where like I know exactly what I'm walking into and yet I'm still a mess watching two people say goodbye to their elderly father it's like I know what's being done to me here and yet I am powerless to resist it Taft Taft Wait, Taft? What was that show called? That was Task. We just potted for an hour and a half straight. The classic Taft biopic. Taft. Whisk through Netflix mid-season. You know, we whiffed on that one.

1:40:24It's all right. Task. Task has got to be top five. Is that your number one? I really like Beast and Me. Beast and Me was really good. I really enjoyed it a lot. I enjoyed Task. I did not watch The Pit. I've been saving it. I do not like Severance. I'm sorry. It's okay. I think some people have zagged on it. I'm one of them. Anything else that was out there? Those are the big ones, right? Studio was fine. Your Friends and Neighbors was super fun from an Apple standpoint. That was a show that existed. That's for sure. It was a show that existed that we got some mileage out of. Yeah. But I think it's been an okay TV year.

1:41:03It's been fun. It's a little erratic. Stranger Things was awesome for a lot of people. I don't watch that show, but... Not for me. My kids were out of their minds about it. I can't wait for the last four. But yeah, it's been solid. Yeah. All right. Rob Mahoney. Going to be on the rewatchables finally. I know. A lot of rumors about this. Extremely excited about that. It's a four-person rewatchables. I won't say the movie, but yeah, we're doing a four-personer. You want to say the movie? I mean, I think we really should have had a top five cast just for the sake of the symbolism. We're doing high fidelity.

1:41:35We're recording it this week, and it's going to be Monday's rewatchable. So looking forward to that. I will see you tomorrow. Thanks for popping on, Rob. Of course. Thanks, Bill. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rob and Gahal and Eduardo. Don't forget about the rewatchables that went up yesterday. We did shampoo. Don't forget about the new Game Over podcast with Max and Rich. Don't forget about the new WizKid documentary that I have coming on Thursday on HBO and HBO Max. And I will be back on this feed with a nice big juicy pot for you on Thursday. See you then.

1:42:10When we saw that alone, say, I don't have periods with them. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER. Visit rg-help.com. Call 888-79-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.