Can Wemby’s Spurs Shake Off a True Gut Punch? Plus: Adam Friedland on NYC Coming Alive, Trump at MSG, and the World Cup.

25:49Bill Simmons:I'm feeling pretty good about maybe a little less Castle going forward. I love Castle. He's probably one of my 10 favorite players in the league. The fear with him was always that there was this little bit of a Westbrook side with him, this irrational confidence side that no matter what the moment was, he has so much confidence in himself. He's going to kind of meander in situations you shouldn't be in. And you could really feel that game too. I just think Harper has been their second best guy. And is the guy I probably trust the most other than Wemby. And it's weird because Castle is a great player, but I think they need his defense and his intangible stuff way more than the ball handling.

26:30Bill Simmons:I wonder, well, you figure they're going to make some adjustments. Would they put him on Towns in game three a little bit? What are they going to do to try to disrupt Towns? Castle has been the guy disrupting Brunson, but do they try to flip it around and move him around and just try to unleash him as this intangibles force versus somebody that seems like he has the ball a little bit more than he should, and Harper doesn't have the ball enough. So when I think of the moves, lower castle usage rate would be my first one. I would use Carter Bryant as the backup center against Towns. I like Cornette, but we've just seen too much of the playoffs.

27:10Bill Simmons:Cornette comes in and you immediately feel like the Spurs are going to go on a 2-10, the opposite of a run. I would use Bryant against Towns. I love Bryant. I actually don't think they're using him enough to say, I know he's 19. I know he's a baby. Um, and I mean a baby, like literally he's like a young, a young, young NBA players two years away from being able to legally drink. I think they need his physicality because if you're talking about the one thing, this first team has been missing all season, it's been that prototypical physical for that you could put next to Wemby that could guard like the towns, Julius Randles, those types of guys.

27:49Bill Simmons:It's really Carter Bryant. and um if i were them i would lean on him more and i would lean less on cornet and then the biggest thing is harper has to be on the floor even more and they have to use harper crunch time i think he only played four minutes in uh fourth quarter game one game two played more he ended up 32 minutes but he's the least afraid guy they have on this team i don't know why but he just is the guys like born for this it i i really am careful to bring this up and i think i've even said this before but the 2000 kobe came for indiana which was like really the beginning of the legend of kobe um shack fouled out and i'm i was living in boston back then and like so many people my age and younger like really really thought kobe had a chance to be the next jordan or close and when Shaq fouled out, I think everybody had the same thought.

28:47Bill Simmons:Like, huh, what do we have here with Kobe? It's time. Let's see it. And I think the thing everybody thought in the moment was this guy, whatever happens, this guy is not going to be scared. Harper is not scared. He's the opposite of scared. I actually feel like he's the most aggro ready for this of anyone on their team. It doesn't make sense. He's 20 years old. We've talked about on pods on the past about young point guards. This doesn't make sense. It just doesn't. But it's the reality of the situation. This guy is not scared. He needs to play more and he probably needs to have the ball. Like you think about some of the terrible shots they had in the last three minutes of the game, which are always like these fall away 22 footers, these contested threes, like these shots in traffic.

29:36Bill Simmons:I like all the decisions and situations Harper's in with the ball. I just feel the best about it. I don't understand why they don't want to pick and roll with him and Wemby. I just would have the ball in his hands way more than they do. And maybe that will be. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. You can bet that every player on the court is feeling the pressure now that it's the finals. There's a championship title at stake after all. It's almost as important as competing with your friends to see who puts together the best fantasy team and who gets the last Michelob Ultra in the pack.

30:06Bill Simmons:Michelob Ultra, crisp, refreshing, getting fans closer to the game with courtside tickets, merch, and more. Michelob Ultra Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at Michelob Ultra.com slash courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside 25-26, no purchase necessary, open to US Residents 21+. Begins on October 1st, 2025, ends on June 30th, 2026. Multiple entry periods, see official rules at Michelob Ultra.com slash courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, and prizes and details. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Countless hours in the gym, a thousand shots before tip-off, day after day on the same court with the State Farm stanchion right there.

30:48Bill Simmons:That's right, the best players put in the work. And State Farm is the same way with insurance experts who put in the work as well. Whether you get a digital quote or reach out to a local agent, State Farm is there to get to know you and help you select the right coverage that fits your life and your budget. Putting in the work is what separates It's the good players from the great, and that's why you want State Farm on your team. So get the coverage that's right for you. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state.

31:21Bill Simmons:The flip. A couple other things for them. You already know you can win on the road in the hairiest situations possible. They won a game one and a game seven in OKC. I know this next game's going to be a madhouse tomorrow in game four, and the crowd's going to be incredible, and I honestly can't wait. OKC's crowd is really loud. It's not really going to be a louder crowd than OKC. Like if OKC, if you could criticize their crowd or anything, it's like a constant loud noise that you're you kind of head your head hurts after two hours of it. But it's not going to be louder than that crowd. And they went in there and they won.

31:54Bill Simmons:So I don't think they're going to be scared unless this game two loss was just the most damaging thing ever. Trump's going to screw up the game three. And I don't mean it from being there. I'm not talking about politics. it's going to take two hours to get in there. Um, the game will probably start 15 minutes later than it should, which means like these games are already starting around like eight 40, eight 41, um, East coast time. The game will probably start closer to nine. And if you remember like in the 22 finals, they were starting the, the East coast game super late. And I, I went to game three and I went to game six.

32:31Bill Simmons:I didn't go to game four. Um, I thought it, I thought it affected the crowd. The game would start at like nine 15, the crowds out, they've had dinner, they've had drinks, like they've kind of peak around that seven 30 to 10 range. And by the time you get into the second half, it's late. It's like past 11 o 'clock. You feel like you've had all this energy and, um, it's, it's a weird dynamic. I, I just think, I think this is, if I'm the Spurs, this is the kind of, kind of crowd slash time situation you're going to want, where it's just going to feel disjointed and you want disjointed when you're on the road.

33:09Bill Simmons:Um, and then the last thing is Wemby. Wemby is a great player. Wemby in the second half of game two at 22 points. Um, I thought he was all over the place defensively covering the rim. He's taken some shit because when he's 25 feet out from the basket, guys have gone by him. Guess what? He's a center. Name me anyone over seven feet that that would happen to. I just think like, if you're criticizing Wemby's defense in this, you're nuts. Um, but he hasn't been the best player in the series. And I'm not even sure he's been the second best player in the series. So what is, is he gonna dig deep? Is this gonna be like that game two is the before and after of, oh, that hardened him, that taught him how to win, or is he just gonna go sideways like Shaq did in 95?

33:52Bill Simmons:We will see. If you're the Knicks, you got no calls in game two, you still won on the road. You got no calls. and I actually, I didn't do a fan duel pick for game two. I did bet on the Spurs money line with an adjusted over because I thought the officiating was going to be what it was in that game. And it was what it was. We all saw it. They even rescinded the Mitchell Robinson technical after the fact, which was an idiotic, ridiculous technical at the time. The Towns game, the third and fourth fouls on Towns were atrocious. so you still win that game and you could argue if the officiating was a little more balanced maybe you win that game by 10 if you're the Knicks you have to assume Brunson's shots are going to start falling that he's he's just even down the stretch they missed some wide open threes Brunson missed some shots he just normally makes so you have to assume he'll be better you You have to assume the crowd's going to be incredible and that's almost definitely to your benefit.

34:55Bill Simmons:We'll see. We'll see what the, how disjointed it is. Um, and you're going to be ready for more Harper in this game. You know, that's like the, the one thing that Spurs can do is unleash Harper a little more. So you got to be ready and got to plan for that. Okay. Last thing, Carl Anthony Towns. Been thinking about this a lot because I don't really remember anything totally like this happening before in an NBA playoffs where somebody that was a really good, pretty flawed star who I think made the last three worst contracts draft that I did with House and Wise. But we all thought he was good. Anytime we did a ringer 100, he was always in the top 30 or 35.

35:38Bill Simmons:He's made two second team All-NBAs or one second team All-NBA in two thirds. he's averaged 23 and 11 for his career for the regular season 52 40 and 84 shooting percentages if you just look at the guys in the history of the league who've played at least 700 games and averaged 22 and 11 right not crazy 22 and 11 700 plus games yokage will elgin barkley kareem Bob Pettit and Carl Anthony Towns. So this is somebody that the stats always favored. Somebody that I think after his career, we probably like in the basketball reference, looking back era, the stats would have been more favorable to him. And yet with somebody none of us trusted and that's just the way it is.

36:33But when you think about

36:35Bill Simmons:the Knicks make this trade two years ago and they're basically, Basically, they don't have a center because they lose Hartenstein. Hartenstein getting poison-pilled basically by Oklahoma City and the Knicks losing Hartenstein leads to the Towns trade. They're heading toward this season and they decide, we have no chance unless we have some sort of center. Towns' contract is scary. We can give up Randall and DiVincenzo and get him. And they basically just bet on the pedigree. They bet on a guy that Wes and Leon had known since he was 15 years old when Wes was trying to recruit him at Kentucky. They'd known him forever, right?

37:09Bill Simmons:They're betting on the pedigree. Now, sometimes this doesn't work. Didn't work with Darko. Remember, I think Orlando traded for Darko. Didn't work. Thabit. Did Thabit ever have pedigree? He was taken second. Michael Beasley's a good one. Michael Beasley, always one of the best two or three high school players in his class all the way up. Put up, I think, 25 and 10 in college. Was a little out there, to say the least, personality-wise, but there was pedigree there and a bunch of teams took chances on him. Never happened. And then Ben Simmons was a good one. Oh, he's fine. It's just the Philly thing didn't work out.

37:44Bill Simmons:You just got to change the scenery. Well, that didn't work. DeAndre Ayton, sort of. Portland and the Lakers. So it just doesn't always work. And there's a million more examples than that. But this is something GMs think about. If somebody was a top five pick, a top three pick, the first pick in the draft, maybe they were in the wrong situation. Maybe you could flip them to another situation. It works way better in baseball. it's worked in football sometimes um where especially with quarterbacks where you they flip teams and things can change in basketball wiggins was a great example of this in golden state wiggins we'd all kind of given up on as a meaningful player and he had a bad contract goes to golden state he's their second best guy in the 2022 finals team aaron gordon sort of like this he was the fifth pick in the draft we all loved aaron gordon um but just never never really had it in Orlando, right?

38:38Bill Simmons:Goes to Denver, becomes this crucial guy in their 23 team. Rashid was a good one. Rashid had been in some big moments and had had probably more success than Towns, but was too much of a hothead. Set the technicals record. And by the time he lands in Detroit, the question was, wasn't for me because I like the trade, but is that too risky? do you want to be in business with Rasheed Wallace? Well, they ended up beating the Lakers that year. Chauncey Billups is a great one for this. Chauncey Billups. I was in Boston going to all those games because my dad never wanted to go Patino's first year. We traded him after 50 games in a Kenny Anderson trade.

39:19And, um, I remember kind of liking the trade when it happened.

39:24Bill Simmons:I didn't know what, what Chauncey was. I couldn't tell if he was a point guard or a shooting guard or what he was. And he could go to the basket. He was a really good athlete. But I learned a valuable lesson from that, which is don't give up on young guards and especially young point guards because he bounced around. He went to Toronto. He went to Denver, went to Minnesota, and then finally ends up in Detroit. Detroit bets on the pedigree. And guess what? He becomes one of the better playoff players we had in the 2000s. Robert Parrish is a good one for this. He was, I think the sixth pick in the draft, um, golden state kind of cooled off on him.

40:02Bill Simmons:And when red are back, wanted McHale ends up trading back from one to three and getting Robert Parrish. So those are probably Wiggins, Gordon, Rashid, Billups, Parrish are five really good examples of this. A bet on the pedigree. And it makes you wonder when you're watching what's happened with towns, two lessons. One, do you look at a couple of guys we have in the league now a little more closely? I don't think Evan Mobley counts for this because Evan Mobley's already good I think he's been on at least one all-NBA team Cleveland made the Eastern Conference Finals he's a max guy I wouldn't put him in the Towns camp Jabari Smith Scoot Henderson neither of them have had the most success as Towns has had over the course of his career Zion higher peak than Towns, but no playoff footprint at all and not as durable as Towns.

40:59Bill Simmons:John Morant. There's off the field, off the court stuff with John that I think, I don't think Towns had red flags like that. So maybe it's Zion as somebody, because the thinking is when somebody hits their mid, late 20s, do they mature? Do they round into something different than what we know now, right? So the case for Zion would be, well, what if he just became more mature and got an awesome shape and went to the right team and could be unleashed as this different kind of force? Um, that's one lesson is, is think about the pedigree. Are there other guys like this? The other one would be don't overreact to a bad series.

41:41So in 24 against Dallas, Towns was awful, like really awful.

41:47Bill Simmons:And when Towns was bad, he's bad. Like Towns, people, a lot of people in my life, some people that have had pods for the ringer or have left the ringer, um, we're just completely out on Towns. Towns in that series was 20 and eight, but he shot 38%, 24 % from three. Dallas was fucking with him in all these different ways. And it just felt like the dumb foul stuff was never going to end. And I remember after, after three, I went and I actually found this text. Minnesota's down 3-0 to Dallas in 24 and I started texting House at halftime of game three that Towns was going to be on the Wizards next year and House was really mad it's like stop it that's not funny it's like a lot of epithets from House that's how bad it got for Towns so when they traded for him huge contract and we were just coming off the worst series of his career well what happens this playoffs, he's unleashed.

42:45Bill Simmons:And I don't really fully have an explanation for it because I can't think of another example like this of somebody that I had already decided on as a player who then dug deep and completely surprised me in a completely different way. I got an email from Mike from Toronto. After game two, Charles Barkley said he was criticized in Minnesota, criticized in New York. Cat is the finals MVP. I actually think he might be the final. Now there's two more games, but I think he would be the leader for me. Parkley said it was the best two games I've seen a big man play. That feels a little strong. Is this the greatest change of opinion about a player we have seen?

43:30Bill Simmons:It's a really good question because I think all of us had decided on Towns and what we had decided It has good stats, seems like a really nice guy, but is pretty flawed and is going to have dumb fouls and do dumb things at the worst possible times. And that's just who he is as a player, right? I decided that. So I was thinking about an actual change of opinion. There's got to be three qualities here. Has to be somebody we were really down on. Has to be somebody who is good enough to at least make it all NBA team or be in the mix in a conference finals or even a finals. It has to be somebody that either won a title or kind of came close.

44:14Bill Simmons:So that rules out Vince Carter because Vince Carter to me was the most disappointing player of the 2000s just for what the potential was. But the peak of his career was probably losing the seven to Philly in round two. It wasn't ever like he got close. Chris Webber is a really good one. I thought Chris Webber was going to be the best forward of the 1990s. Um, and the timeout, I think changed him in a bunch of different ways. And I, I don't even think that's an opinion. I think that kind of sapped him of something. And you know, the Golden State thing got weird. He went to Washington and, um, just was really disappointing.

44:51Bill Simmons:Right. And gets traded to Sacramento for an older Mitch Richmond. And at that point it felt like a good flyer. Sure. Chris Weber, maybe. Um, and then he turned into one of the best five guys in the league there. Um, but they never even made the finals. And then the one that's probably the closest to this is Dirk post 2007. Um, after they lose 06 finals and then they lose the golden state and the 07 playoffs. And eventually that leads to him doing the Australian trip. But I had just given up on Dirk being the best guy on a championship team. I didn't think it was possible. Um, and then in 2011, he had one of the great resurgences slash rejuvenations in the history of the league and blows through everybody.

45:37Bill Simmons:I think he beats the Lakers. He beats OKC, maybe Memphis or San Antonio, and then, then Miami in the finals, but just, it was a murderer's row and he just went through it and, and, uh, demolished everybody. So Dirk is still the number one thing for this, but in Dirk's case, he had won an MVP. He had made the finals. He was one of the best players of the 2000s. Towns was never as good as Dirk. Dirk thing, the Towns thing, Towns becoming this cerebral, awesome, never has not made dumb plays at all in the entire playoffs. Like it's like, it's almost like if you changed your meds for a little kid or something, like you had a hyperactive little kid and the little kid went on meds and just became a different kid.

46:26Bill Simmons:You'd be like, hey, what's different about that kid? Towns, it's like he's having somebody changed his med series, even though I don't probably isn't on meds. But it's been so dramatic. I almost can't believe what I'm watching. That first half he played in game two was one of the best halves I've seen, best both end halves I've seen a center play and I think the guys at halftime were told at red I think Wemby was shook by it he's like I thought I was going to have a huge advantage of this guy I went into this series thinking Towns was going to be the number one reason that they were going to be in trouble for this series and it's been the opposite so watching this Towns resurgence has been fantastic a couple more emails and then we're going to get to Adam Friedland Max V says Livia Matt and I can say this is the most excited I've seen this city about a possible championship.

47:13Bill Simmons:People are going fucking nuts. The odds are obviously against it. But knock on wood, if the Knicks blow this series, not putting that out there, but he wrote this as an email. If the Knicks blow this series, would this be the biggest gut punch loss of the 21st century? All right, I thought about this. The formula would be how long was the drought? How gigantic is your fan base? And how egregious was the collapse? so the 86 red sox is a great example of this the red sox hadn't won in 66 years is that what it was 68 years 68 years i can still do math red sox hadn't lost in 68 years 13 strikes to win the world series and lost um and that was the biggest gut punch i think of the 21st century for a sports team and a fan base.

48:09Bill Simmons:Years to recover. I think it was actually genuinely damaging for a whole generation of younger fans, including myself. The 94 Rangers are a good example of almost having this happen, but they didn't because you forget they're up 3-1 in the finals against Vancouver. They come home for game five. It's almost like this Knicks series right now. Prices are through the roof. Everyone wants to be in the building for when they win. They blow game five at home. They lose game six in Vancouver. And now there's two days off before game seven. And I knew some Rangers fans and still do. That was an all time people freaking the fuck out, 48 hour span.

48:49Bill Simmons:And then they end up eking out game seven and winning it. So it was all fine. But I would say if the Knicks blow this at this point, I don't know if it would have a parallel this century because it's unlike the Falcons Patriots where it's 23, you blow a game in an hour and a half. This would be, you would have to blow this over a week and a half. And it would be an all-time historic collapse because nobody's ever won the first two on the road and then lost the final. James from Brooklyn wants to know if Towns wins a title, would Minnesota fans be more bitter about trading with Cat or Garnett? And then he says, how long until Ant leaves for a title somewhere else?

49:33Bill Simmons:That was, that was me and James. Um, I'd be more bitter about the cat trade. Garnett wanted to leave the team. The team should have traded him even two years before they did. And he had no chance to win a title there and you had to trade him and you had to rebuild. That was the right move. The cat thing really did seem more financial than anything. And they had had success with him already. They just made the conference finals with him. I mentioned that was a tough series, uh, for him and for the team. but that to me was a financial trade it was a chance to reset a year from now with new ownership um and try to get randall on a lower deal and just not have to pay in the 50s for cat and anthony adverts at the same time and i i don't think a lot of teams would have made that trade i think teams would have probably tried to suck it up with towns for another year it was a financial trade but it was also a trade that happened because he sucked in the dallas series so I'd be a little more bitter about that one.

50:29Bill Simmons:Ricky wants to know with the way Cat is showing how the best antidote to Wemby is someone who could stretch them out to the three-point line and leverage their strength to get to the basket on offense. Can I introduce you to Joel Hans and Bede? Hans and Bede? Joel Hans and Bede? He's a longtime Sixers fan, by the way, this guy. He said in their matchups this far, Embiid is averaging a meager 38-11. He needs multiple, if not all, athletic high-level long-wing defenders. A few West teams have just that more to trade for Embiid. Is a savvy team in the West looking at what Kat's doing and thinking this might be a decent idea?

51:04Bill Simmons:I laughed at this when I read this and then I put some thought into it. And I was actually wondering if this might make sense for somebody. The problem is you go look at Embiid's contract and it's a catastrophe, but maybe a year from now. It's a possibility. Scotty and Phoenix wants to know. So everyone knows the Knicks haven't lost since April 23rd. Two days later, they start the win streak. It was also the same day poor Dante DiVincenzo tore his Achilles. Was that like a sacrifice to end the 53-year drought? Poor Dante. I do think they should have him at one of these games. He got the Ross deal out of everybody, right?

51:45Bill Simmons:He's like, I thought we were all doing this Philadelphia thing. What happened? It is weird that he got hurt the same day of this. And then Kevin in Portland wants to know, if the Knicks want to guarantee their first championship in 53 years, Dolan needs to invite Oakley back for game three at MSG. Can you imagine how the crowd would react? Seeing him there, San Antonio wouldn't stand a chance. This would be a great, great, great. This would be like a pro wrestling moment. They hug at midcourt or they bring out Oakley. almost like a wrestling entrance where they play. I guess Oakley doesn't have music, but this would be a pretty good idea.

52:23Bill Simmons:I think if the crowd had the choice between Oakley and Trump, they'd probably pick Oakley. All right, that's enough foreplay. We're going to bring in Adam Friedland and things are about to get wacky. That's next. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. For small business, every hire matters, but the time and resources required to hire right are limited. Luckily, LinkedIn Hiring Pro is built for that reality. It's your hiring partner designed to help you hire with confidence by surfacing only the right candidates without turning hiring into another full-time job. Hiring Pro streamlines the entire process from drafting your job to shortlisting candidates and conducting AI-powered screening interviews.

52:58Bill Simmons:Its conversational interface lets you describe what you need in plain language. No recruiter jargon needed. Nearly 60 % of hirers find a candidate to interview within a week. With Hiring Pro, you spend less time searching and more time connecting with the right talent. Hire right the first time. Get started by posting your first job for free at linkedin.com slash Simmons. That's linkedin.com slash Simmons. Terms and conditions apply. This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum Business.

53:30Bill Simmons:They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 US-based support. millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Service is not available in all areas. All right. So we banked this part of the podcast early afternoon. And this is take two. This is the first time I think this has happened since COVID when we were having these audio issues. We did a whole, we did like 100 minutes this morning.

54:04Adam Friedland:I could have gone my entire life, Bill.

54:06Bill Simmons:It disappeared. It's ironic, Adam Friedland, because this was your first appearance on the pod. You were excited about it. And somehow you brought like a black cloud with you and it vaporized the technology. Why are you blaming me? I'm blaming you.

54:21Adam Friedland:That was Belle, the producer here, said that was the greatest podcast. Literally, she said the best podcast. We're going to run it back. We're just doing it. We're doing it a second time. I was so sad. I texted the boys. I realized afterwards that this is what I've been preparing for my entire life. I didn't even know. We're just talking about ball. Listen, here's the thing.

54:41Bill Simmons:Now that now it's gone to history, the only, only like seven people know the magic of that first time we did it. And now we're just going to redo it. It will be better. We'll be worse. The only ones that are going to know are us.

54:52Adam Friedland:It'll be most certainly worse. But like on a sincere note, I grew up, my pod father ran out on our family as a kid. And I felt like for 90 minutes, I'd found a pod. A real pod father? I won't tell him, I won't say his name. He's become, but his show, his podcast is called The Joe Rogan Experience. But I don't want to, but he left us. And he said it was my fault. And I was growing up, my biological podfather, of course. But, and I was like, you know, he's, he's not the step podfather. He's the podfather who stepped up. Yeah. Bill Simmons. No, but I realized it was like, yeah, it was just, I was telling you at the beginning of the last one, but it's just so, it's so sick.

55:33Adam Friedland:You get to just do this for your job.

55:35Bill Simmons:Yeah, that's, So the first time we did this, which we're just going to do again, you were interrogating me on what my life's like. We'll get to that in a second. Well, I opened with a comment about how beautiful your eyes were. Oh, I appreciate that. Did you remember that? Yeah. That got us off to a strange start. It was stunning. Listen, important business first. The Adam Friedland Show is joining Spotify in July. You're relaunching your third season with us. So you're technically on the Ringer team, but more importantly, next month on the Adam Freedland show. You're doing a special soccer podcast, a mini-series called The Beautiful Pod.

56:11Bill Simmons:Okay.

56:12Adam Friedland:We are off to a disaster start. I screwed this up? On Wednesday, we are starting... This month.

56:20Bill Simmons:Well, this month.

56:21Adam Friedland:Yeah.

56:22Bill Simmons:June. I meant this month. On Wednesday. Yes.

56:26Adam Friedland:At the Adam Freedland show, we're going into pre-production on season three. When we return, we are now part of the ringer something or other. Yeah. Do you get classier ads? They do classy ads, right?

56:39Bill Simmons:I think it's a win for everybody. I've been selling boner pills for 10 years.

56:43Adam Friedland:I've been selling some disgusting offshore gambling scams. Yeah. Your boner pill days are over. I had the mayor, Mom Donnie, on the show and we had an erectile dysfunction ad booked. So I was like, we got to lead off with do you have trouble getting an erection? Yes, but we're doing... We're going to... What is it? Ringer? Spotify partner. The Adam Fielder show is now Spotify partner. But beyond that, I am now... We're doing the World Cup coverage for the Ringer. I couldn't be more excited.

57:18Bill Simmons:And we loaned you CR, Chris Ryan.

57:22Adam Friedland:Yes, you did.

57:23Bill Simmons:Well, I mean... It was like with soccer, they loaned the players, right? They could do that for like a year. I just loaned my striker. I'm a second division team. I loaned my striker. I got relegated. we didn't get relegated, but we're loaning CR to you anyway.

57:35Adam Friedland:Well, you loan like a young guy that you want to get minutes to like a crappier team.

57:40Bill Simmons:The thing is, CR has the most minutes at the ringer. I think he's on 17 podcasts, but he's at an 18.

57:46Adam Friedland:Yeah, you're like, we can't find space on the roster for this guy. This is like Messi.

57:51Bill Simmons:This is like Messi going to Miami.

57:53Adam Friedland:Yeah, this is where he's going to end his career on the beautiful pod, a Taft's original miniseries. yeah so I no I genuinely I'm so excited to talk just about sports instead of whatever the hell I do regularly actually I really enjoy doing the Adam Friedland show it's like pretty cool but it'll be a nice change of pace but like now that I've like yesterday I was like writing jokes for it all day and it's just I'm like this is just what I should just be this is what I wish I would do for the rest of my life

58:26Bill Simmons:yeah come to the dark side just waste your life talking about sports and getting paid for it it's great Yeah, it's really nice.

58:32Adam Friedland:You probably don't even know what a tariff is. You probably, your life is amazing. Yeah, I don't know. See, your life is incredible. Do we have a president or a prime minister here? I don't even know. I, I, I, I've regret to inform you that things are terrible right now.

58:46Bill Simmons:Well, we have that. One of the things I want to talk to you about was you're in New York City. You live in Brooklyn, but New York with the Knicks. There's been a unifying thing happening in the city that all my friends are saying they've never experienced anything like this ever.

59:00Adam Friedland:Yeah. Well, first off, New York's been, it's been difficult here with the Mamdani Institute of Sharia Law and the Knicks have given us, I'm sorry. See, the first joke was funny. What did I say? Oh yeah, this is anti-Semitic. You're like, how is New York? No, no, this is good. The anti-Semitism. I'm now remembering all the jokes and you can't tell them a second time. I said, Bill was like, how is it a New Yorker? And I was like, well, the anti-Semitism is rampant. And no, but honestly, what's happening right now is like special. I've never lived in a, uh, I've been here since 2014 and I was in DC before that, but I've never lived in a city that's just like going so hard for their, for their boys right now.

59:37Bill Simmons:Blue and orange everywhere. Watch parties, people wearing homemade jerseys. Wesley Morris was talking about it. He's, he was delighted by this. He felt like, cause I remember in Boston in 2004 during the ALCS and then the, and then the world series. it felt like the entire city just mobilized into this giant Red Sox machine and you could see it. It was like everywhere you went, you just saw hats, jerseys and it feels like New York's like that right now.

1:00:03Adam Friedland:Yeah, people are out on the street. That's the cool part about it. People are just running outside. Outside of your window, you hear people screaming and stuff. People are lighting fireworks right now. It's pretty cool. Hopefully benevolently. What do you mean benevolently? I think fireworks are a good thing. yeah they're mostly oh oh yeah people are doing crimes after every yeah crime is through no uh no yeah people you're seeing fireworks it's really just genuinely i've uh it's really special i mean it's new york should have a better basketball team you know they should be like a dynastic like uh you know it's new york right and it's uh i guess there was those larry johnson years in the 90s but like it's it's like kind of wrong you called him the larry johnson years that i was saying years no i was saying the greg anthony years in the 90s yeah the anthony mason years in the 90s the john starsears right i remember as a kid it was just i remember the fights i remember the heat uh heat nicks fights and those were that was really cool but uh yeah beyond that i you know what was it 78 was the last year no that i mean they had good stretches yeah 73 was

1:01:16Bill Simmons:the last title. Yeah. Good stretches in the 80s. Like, I think the Bernard King stretch before he got hurt was great. Yeah. A couple really good bumps in the 90s, like when they battled MJ the first time. The physical Knicks teams in the 90s. And then it just... Ever since I got to ESPN, they kind of died. Yeah. When I got there in 2001, it was like they were relevant one playoff series. The Novak years. That was it. Yeah. That was in 2013. Yeah.

1:01:43Adam Friedland:Oh, yeah. I guess that's even later. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I, yeah, I'm like, uh, it's like going to the garden is special, right? Like it's, it is like a cathedral of the game.

1:01:55Bill Simmons:I would even admit that as a Celtic fan.

1:01:57Adam Friedland:I would feel special, right? I mean, you're not necessarily rivals even with it. It's your rivals with us. Why do you live there? I'm not going to move to Boston. But outside of that, it's like the stadium where the star and the other team... Fair question. You have disgust for all the people going...

1:02:18Bill Simmons:Well, when I grew up, I hated the Lakers. And the moment I moved here, I was like, this is weird.

1:02:23Adam Friedland:It's nice. But it's nice. Yeah, it's really nice. The weather's pretty great. Yeah, it's nice. Anyway, but yeah, it's the stadium where the star and the other team has his 50 piece, right? It's like the stadium where Kobe has his just takes bows. It's like a place that brings out the best in the other teams. But it's cool. Even if they're out of playoff contention, it's the end of the year. And someone does the half-court shot at halftime. And he misses it. Everyone's like, go fuck yes out. It's got an energy about it. The stadium is still sold out. But it's spilled outside the streets. It's really incredible to see.

1:03:04Bill Simmons:Yeah. It's been a long time coming too. It got to the point where you started to wonder is this ever going to happen again for this team? Between the mismanagement, the bad luck, some of the dumb contracts. And it really was like it took COVID to really shake the shake the nicks out of it. It was. It was. Post COVID all of a sudden things got better.

1:03:24Adam Friedland:But there is something about like, yeah, Kat, I mean, I've just never seen him at this level. I went to the first round against the Hawks and I didn't see it. Yeah. I genuinely didn't see it. And there was something that was missing there. And I was like, what's the philosophy of this team? And then something clicked. When's the last time they lost? A month ago?

1:03:42Bill Simmons:More than that.

1:03:43Adam Friedland:Yeah, it was April 23rd. Yeah. And it's been remarkable. They've had these... As we were saying in the best podcast of all time, we're really... Are we hitting it? Can I ask you a question? No, I think we're very close. Every woman I've ever had sex with, how was that for you, Bill? I had a great time. I'm having a great time. no but uh yeah there is there's something that clicks and like you know like uh like it's just yeah uh i don't understand like cat i've never seen him at this level before the stuff with the mom is like made me cry it's like i lost my mother uh there's just something special and uh you were saying the last show but like as they seeing them collectively defend and deal with Wemby.

1:04:26Adam Friedland:And then seeing the level of the basketball just in these finals, it's like, I just keep saying, this is such good basketball. And it's been such a fun series. And then the guy that's about the Darth Vader that's in waiting, about to take over the entire league, he'll probably play 30 years. We'll probably be still waiting for him to get hurt. We're like, oh yeah, at that size. He's 52. He's 52 and he's unbelievable. Yeah. It's really cool.

1:04:55Bill Simmons:It never happened to Kareem. So that would be the role model for Wemby.

1:04:58Adam Friedland:And he wasn't bulky too, right?

1:05:00Bill Simmons:No, he stayed, Kareem stayed skinnier. He did yoga and karate and all this stuff to kind of stay limber. And we have a new karate guy. Yeah.

1:05:10Adam Friedland:Yeah. They're both karate guys. Well, it's funny.

1:05:15Bill Simmons:I wrote, I had a bunch of people in my life because I picked the Spurs to win the series. And I had a bunch of people in my life who were like, this is crazy. You didn't pick the Knicks. Like you wrote this whole basketball book and the premise was the secret of basketball and how it's not about basketball and it's unselfishness and teamwork and fighting off the disease of more and putting your, putting the team ahead of the person. And, and I had multiple friends say this to me, like, how do you not see that this is what's happening with the Knicks? And I was just, I was in that mode of Knicks.

1:05:49Bill Simmons:Well, it was the Knicks and I was less in that mode of, wow, it was Cleveland. It was Philly with like breaking down Embiid. It was Atlanta with three players. Like, I just think San Antonio is a horrible matchup for you. And as it turned out, the Knicks are probably a horrible matchup for San Antonio as well.

1:06:05Adam Friedland:Yeah. I mean, I guess Mitch has dealt with Wemby kind of maybe the best. Is that fair to say?

1:06:14Bill Simmons:And Towns has really taken it to him.

1:06:16Adam Friedland:Yeah. I think also there's still just terrible when he's not playing. It's remarkable what he's done at 22. And like, yeah, we were talking before about like, it's not a real sweep, right? It feels series over, but like, it does also feel like anything could happen in this series.

1:06:35Bill Simmons:Well, game three is going to be weird because Trump's going, it's going to take two and a half hours to get in there. Right? And the game will probably be delayed the game's already starting like 8 40 so it'll probably start closer to 9 and i always found like this happened in in 22 with the celtics when they for some reason the games were starting at like 9 10 p.m eastern time and it definitely the crowd got a little weird as it got later and later and just didn't have the same energy as it did in the beginning so i'm going to be interested to see does the crowd peak too early is the trump thing like this crazy wild card that is the game disjointed?

1:07:15Bill Simmons:Is the crowd disjointed? Or is it going to be like the romantic version of it is this is the end of the Shawshank Redemption for the Knicks fans. This is two games of bliss. The crowd's incredible. The Spurs are scarred from what happened in game two and it's just a sweep. And I honestly don't know. I don't even know how to pick it.

1:07:35Adam Friedland:It's still you just have seen this franchise fuck up so many times. I'm an Arsenal fan. It's been 22 years. and we'd like been in first place and then finished second for three straight years.

1:07:50Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:07:50Adam Friedland:And this season was terrifying. Every match. Because of the prospect of finishing second a fourth time. After we were up nine points on the table. Like we almost fucked it for a fourth time. I don't know how we would have been able to manage it. And like I also like none of us believe that it could ever happen too. Like I'm sure like a lot of Knicks fans are too. Yeah, I mean.

1:08:13Bill Simmons:Well, there was this moment I talked about in the first segment of the pod, the Rangers in 94, when they had a one in 54 years. And they took a 3-1 lead heading into game five. And game five was in New York. And everybody's like, oh my God, I got to be there when they win the cup. And then they lost. And then they lost game six. And people were just, it was the, every Knick fan or every New York fan I knew, it was the most horrifying, like four days. But then they ended up winning game seven.

1:08:40Adam Friedland:I felt like I had a nightmare scheduled. I'm like, yeah, tomorrow at 3, I'm going to watch A Nightmare. I'm just so scared about it. I have to watch. Question for you. Bloody Soccer was like... Oh, four. Yeah, it must have been the most incredible thing that you've ever seen in sports, right?

1:09:00Bill Simmons:The four days in a row against the Yankees is my highlight as a sports fan.

1:09:04Adam Friedland:Yeah, that series was unreal. But it meant more, right? Because of the curse, right?

1:09:10Bill Simmons:Oh, yeah. This is the... it's the losing virginity as a sports fan of it's the only way you can do it when you've had a drought for this long and then all these great things happen and it's never going to be as good as the first time it's just not like how do you like but like as a pats fan like how did you like

1:09:27Adam Friedland:keep getting boners like you don't like what i'm saying it has to like not i took those ed drugs

1:09:32Bill Simmons:you did on you took that i took the sports ed drugs promo code if you add a promo code tom brady

1:09:36Adam Friedland:Adam 420. No, but I'm saying like, does it feel, it diminishes in, in its like excitement or you, or Boston guys just like, if we don't win, it's just a, no, the past thing was great

1:09:47Bill Simmons:because we went from, we were basically like if the Jets had won the Super Bowl, right? We were like black sheep losers.

1:09:53Adam Friedland:And he was like a child. He was a backup too. Yeah. And it was so improbable.

1:09:56Bill Simmons:It was right after 9-11. So there's a patriotic thing. So I think people are rooting with us. But by the third one.

1:10:01Adam Friedland:It was right after 9-11

1:10:03Bill Simmons:because we were named the Patriots? Well, it was, you know, the beautiful day, U2 at the Super Bowl halftime show. It was like very American Super Bowl.

1:10:11Adam Friedland:It was because of your name, the Patriots. They did it for 9-11? Yeah. Yeah. It was part of it.

1:10:18Bill Simmons:You remember the U2 halftime show? The green head. Where the streets have no name with all the 9-11 names is emotional. I remember the

1:10:24Adam Friedland:Janet Jackson halftime show. Well, that's when it probably turned.

1:10:26Bill Simmons:Then the third one, everyone got tired of us. We became Duke. And then Spygate happened

1:10:31Adam Friedland:and we were villains. The best was Prince in the rain in Miami. Do you remember that? doing Purple Rain. Oh, yeah. But you were saying... But, like, the Patsy...

1:10:39Bill Simmons:America turned on us, which actually was great because then all we had was each other. The other Pats fans was galvanizing. Then we were, like, rejuvenated.

1:10:49Adam Friedland:It's what we were talking about with Kobe. It's like you're heaped with praise and then... Yeah, that's the arc, right? Brady was, like, this backup, right? Yeah. It was, like, a romantic thing. And then, like, eventually we're like, fuck those guys. They win all the time.

1:11:01Bill Simmons:Well, there's different kinds of titles you win where... Like, that one, nobody ever... They were two touchdown underdogs in the Super Bowl, and I think they were like 13-point underdogs in the AFC title game. The Knicks one's a little different because it came late, but once we got to the finals, I think the Spurs were favored, but I knew a lot of people that thought the Knicks were going to win, and I think it's not shocking that they're winning.

1:11:26Adam Friedland:I had no idea how to call it. I just didn't know. Because you don't know. Because the best guy on one team is 22. Yeah. He's 22, but he's that. I don't know what that is. Maybe not.

1:11:37Bill Simmons:He threw the game-deciding pass off his teammates back.

1:11:40Adam Friedland:Well, he's 22. He's 22.

1:11:42Bill Simmons:And his teammate was 21. And he threw the pass.

1:11:45Adam Friedland:They're incredible when he's playing, and they stink when he's not. I mean, they stunk last year. How many wins did they have last year? Who did? The Spurs.

1:11:54Bill Simmons:Well, Wembe didn't play half the year.

1:11:56Adam Friedland:I know. The turnaround is like, is it the biggest turnaround ever? It's one of them.

1:12:02Bill Simmons:The first Bird Celtic year, they gained like 31 wins, I think, from the year before.

1:12:06Adam Friedland:This has to be more. Oh, really? It is. I asked you, because you live in Brooklyn.

1:12:12Bill Simmons:We got to stop saying that we talked about this the last time because nobody heard the other time. I know, but it breaks my heart. I know, it's fine. It's dead. Because you already heard it. It's dead. You have to fake laugh? No, I haven't fake laughed once. I know, I'm just kidding.

1:12:23Adam Friedland:You live in Brooklyn.

1:12:25Bill Simmons:You live near Barclays. And I was asking you, with what you've seen from the Knicks and how this city rallied around the Knicks, if you're the Nets like Prudential Center

1:12:36Adam Friedland:Newark we're going home

1:12:37Bill Simmons:yeah what's the Wednesday meeting like where Joe Sye's like hey man we have to figure out like the Liberty are more popular than us and Barclays the Knicks have 99.9 % of the NBA fans what's what's our plan we can't keep this going I mean

1:12:52Adam Friedland:he had to have known already right no this this is worse

1:12:56Bill Simmons:than he ever could have imagined I think

1:12:57Adam Friedland:the atmosphere at any home game is and they play like they play every game is kind of a road game for the players on the Nets. It's tough. I feel bad for them. The last year, and I still think about Kyrie and Durant being on the same team and how cool that was, and we never got to... It was a toe, right? Yeah. And then it was over. And that was the... I was at the game one, the blowout against Giannis. And that was like... There was something happening, and it was exciting. But since then, the toe is kind of the end, right? There's no question. It's the before and after. The potential of those two guys being on the same team, though, at that stage in both their careers, it was like, it's such a what-if for me still.

1:13:41Bill Simmons:Well, it wasn't just that they were on the same team. The Knicks also wanted the two guys, and they chose Brooklyn over the Knicks, which had happened repeatedly. Like, Durant didn't want to go there to the Knicks in 16. LeBron turned them down famously in 2010. Like, they weren't even a choice for people. and I think that's what's changed.

1:14:01Adam Friedland:They made a Sopranos video for them. Right. You saw that, right? Oh, yeah.

1:14:04Bill Simmons:But I think what's changed, regardless of whether they win the title or not, and they're big favorites now, but they are now a destination again, I think, for players, which was just not the case for 20 years.

1:14:15Adam Friedland:You know? It's crazy. I almost forgot that they chose the Nets over the Knicks. That's how toxic that brand was. Yeah. That's insane. It feels like, how is that possible? You're right. But yeah, it was a better situation over there. And like, yeah, it's such a what if because Kyrie just does the impossible and makes it look easy for him. And then everything that Durant does looks easy, but it's really hard to do what he's doing. They're like the opposites. Like Durant is just making everything look effortless. Kyrie's making everything look so insanely hard and he's somehow doing it. And it's like the combination of those two like offensive savants, like on the same team.

1:14:56Adam Friedland:It really bums me out. I was like, I wish we got to see more of it.

1:14:59Bill Simmons:And Harden got hurt the one time he actually cared about that team. Your favorite player ever is Kobe?

1:15:05Adam Friedland:Yeah, so what? Oh, yeah. You guys missed it. There was a question.

1:15:09Bill Simmons:No, nobody missed it. This is the first time they're ever hearing it.

1:15:12Adam Friedland:Bill gave me a full-throated apology for his mistreatment of Mr. Kobe. No, no, no. Not true.

1:15:16Bill Simmons:I just said I was late to the party of appreciating how good he was.

1:15:19Adam Friedland:I know. You were. You were. But something about you is like, I've always been like, how dare he say that about Kobe? But then I'd be like, if I was Bill, I would be rocking with my boys in the same way. Yeah. It was always like this. Do you think you were like the first to disclose your allegiances in media? Sorry, I asked you a question back. Sorry, I did the thing where I interview you back. Well, it was kind of a new thing.

1:15:41Bill Simmons:Definitely was a new thing because when I came up, when I was writing for ESPN and I was writing from like the sports fan perspective, it was basically just newspaper columnists and that's it. everybody's supposed to be very down the middle and you weren't supposed to have favorite teams and i always felt like the the people that i enjoyed reading i always felt like were fans of the sport or the team and like i talked about this william goldman book that i loved called wait till next year where he wrote from the perspective of the new york fan i was like that's that's kind of how i want to write my column now it's pretty common it's also bullshit like you

1:16:17Adam Friedland:would have to be like right down the middle like you could if you love your team and you love your guys, you should rather just be honest with it. And so people can see where you're coming from.

1:16:26Bill Simmons:I think it's different if you're like Brian Windhorst and you're in locker rooms and you're talking about it in a different way. I think it would be tougher to be like, I'm also a giant Cavs fan. He loved LeBron, right? I don't know if he loved him, but he covered him forever.

1:16:43Adam Friedland:I asked Nick, right? I said when they had the Wembley-LeBron thing, I was like, did you say to yourself, and then there was one.

1:16:56Bill Simmons:What did he say?

1:16:58Adam Friedland:He laughed. That was it? He's like, Windy's a great guy. He was diplomatic. Yeah, but it's definitely different now.

1:17:07Bill Simmons:I think it's basically because there's way more media. There's way more opinions. There's all kinds of ways to get to become noticed and build like at least a small level of fans. So there's no one method now. in the 2000s, there really was only one method. I think everyone does what you did.

1:17:24Adam Friedland:I think it's kind of a trailblazer kind of thing. I don't know about that. Listen, I have no respect for you. You were very unfair to Kobe. No, no. But I mean, I think you kind of changed things. Like, I don't know. We didn't know where Walter Cronkite's, like, allegiance is. I mean, that's something that you're doing more of like a, you were just a writer about sports from the perspective of a fan, I guess, right? Yeah. Like, I was reading the book. I remember the article in 2002. I read it, like, when I was in high school, the 9-11 one. Oh, yeah. I was like, yeah, I was like, this is good. This is, do you think, do you remember back to that?

1:17:58Adam Friedland:I'm asking you questions now. This is bullshit. I don't want to do that. But yeah, do you remember like, did that feel like a seminal kind of like moment for you? Or was it just another thing you wrote?

1:18:08Bill Simmons:I remember not being happy with what I wrote, but feeling like I had to write something. But the bigger thing is, I remember, I remember wondering like if I was still going to have a job. like i didn't 9-11 was was so horrible and and so impactful to everybody even people you know that had didn't know one person that died there but it felt like just everything was going to be different from that point on i'd never experienced that before so i was like well nobody's going to want to read about sports and you know fucking bad takes on movies and then i remember at some point everybody just started to be like, alright, I gotta do my job again.

1:18:49Bill Simmons:And I remember within like a week I went to go see Hardball with Keanu Reeves with my buddy Jacko.

1:18:54Adam Friedland:The best.

1:18:55Bill Simmons:And I wrote a column about it. And I was just like, this is my job. You have the coolest job. Maybe people will read this and it'll take their mind off shit for 10 minutes. But I think that was the only time in my life I ever remember America like that where where everybody was kind of like, what do we do? Like, are we all going to work tomorrow? And then you kind of figure it out.

1:19:21Adam Friedland:You just got me really afraid because I've had to, you know, I'm recording the World Trade Center right now. I was scared enough as it is the first time. That would be a fool me, shame on me situation.

1:19:33Bill Simmons:It's weird to go there and not think about it though.

1:19:36Adam Friedland:Like,

1:19:36Bill Simmons:because the Spotify offices are there. That's where you are now and you go and...

1:19:40Adam Friedland:When you read the word on the text, this is where I have to go I'm like really? and this was 25 years ago yes it was so long so you grew up in

1:19:48Bill Simmons:you grew up in California

1:19:50Adam Friedland:I grew up in Vegas yeah yeah yeah but I'm an LA sports fan yeah

1:19:54Bill Simmons:but you weren't in you hadn't you didn't get to New York until the mid-2010 so you you weren't there right

1:20:00Adam Friedland:I wasn't there but I remember in high school I was a freshman and I was like a I was like a know-it-all asshole and I was like actually it's probably the Al Qaeda network of terror because they recently did an attack on the USS Cole. Someone was like, shut up! I was like, sorry. I was like, looking back on it, everyone likes politics now, and it used to be something that if you liked it, you were a loser. And I think it kind of should go back to that. Right? I think too many people are obsessed with politics now. I got made fun of for it, as well I should have. Right? But it's weird to see that nowadays.

1:20:38Adam Friedland:But yeah, no, I wasn't here for that. But yeah, I was born in LA. I'm an LA sports fan because my dad immigrated in 81 to LA and he got into American sports to have something to like share with his kids. My dad was at the Gibson game in 88. How amazing is that? I was a baby. Yeah.

1:20:59Bill Simmons:More amazing than that he stayed. Because you go to Dodger games and people get the F out of there before the ninth inning. It's really like you're making a choice. It's like if you stay it's an extra two hours. it's the world's here

1:21:10Adam Friedland:I mean yeah it's true no you'd be surprised

1:21:12Bill Simmons:because I went to the 18 inning game in October and I was surprised how many people left after 89

1:21:18Adam Friedland:my friend was there yeah and he said that it was weird he said the ball wasn't carrying because there was like a high pressure system or something it was dead it was like an insane like vibe there it must have been agony to be sitting there for hours and hours I loved it

1:21:32Bill Simmons:no I really had a good we had great seats but I really had a good time did they stop serving beer?

1:21:37Adam Friedland:oh yeah

1:21:37Bill Simmons:they stopped serving everything

1:21:39Adam Friedland:You just, if I had another beer, I'd be fine. I'd be like, can you guys open it back up? We're going to be here another, yeah, nine innings of extra innings.

1:21:47Bill Simmons:What you said was the key thing because I forget somebody had, would just clearly seem like it was going to be a homer and the thing just died. And we were like, are we ever leaving? There were so many warning track shots.

1:21:58Adam Friedland:I remember. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I was a big Dodger fan initially, but then, yeah, I guess my team's out with the Lakers and Arsenal. And I watched like soccer a lot now, which is the, I was, as I was saying in the last podcast, the worst kind of American you could be. It's like something that's, I shouldn't, it does feel lame to be an American soccer fan. I just think of,

1:22:20Bill Simmons:because America, because we haven't really had a truly great player, because the team and the World Cup thing, the whole World Cup, our chances feel like we're in a worse spot than we were 15 years ago, even though everyone I know who likes soccer insists that we have the most talent we've ever had. It's just that everybody has more talent. I don't know what's true. They have no swag. Yeah. They have no swag. There's not one... They have no swag. They don't have that one dude that a nine-year-old kid would be like, I want to wear that guy's jersey. Maybe it'll happen in the World Cup, though.

1:22:51Adam Friedland:The center back, Tim Ream, I saw on my Instagram algorithm, he was doing advocacy for... He said, when I was a kid, I wet my bed. And he's like, one in five kids wet the bed. I'm like, not before the Cup. Not before the World Cup. Don't do bedwetting advocacy. it's like come on do a cigarette commercial I don't even know if they make those anymore do beer make us look cool

1:23:14Bill Simmons:who would be if he was in our country who would be the coolest who would be the guy that actually owns soccer for America

1:23:22Adam Friedland:what out of any player yeah if that person

1:23:25Bill Simmons:just happened to be American

1:23:27Adam Friedland:now Messi's too old now it would have to be somebody younger someone younger someone cool I don't know Messi's you register that it's the best we've ever seen, ever. I'm aware. He's like twice as good as Ronaldo. And he still might cook this time around. It's weird.

1:23:47Bill Simmons:How old is he now? Is he 40 yet?

1:23:50Adam Friedland:I think maybe. Late 30s? Somewhere in there. He's kind of hurt. He doesn't have to go back on defense. He gets to just walk around and then there's this thing that happens inside of him and then it'll be like 12 seconds of chaos. And then it'll be in the back of the net. He's like a bizarre guy. I think he didn't speak until he was like 11. There's something like he was just given by God for this one purpose. But no, I mean, who would be cool to be American? I don't know. I don't know. It would be cool if American athletes played soccer. I've speculated on that. It's like speculating if LeBron played tight end or something.

1:24:35Adam Friedland:Or like, I don't know. Thinking about like our best athletes, like if Kyrie played soccer, I mean, I would imagine he'd be like one of the best.

1:24:44Bill Simmons:Kyrie's a great one. I always thought Iverson was my favorite one for this game because even there's high school football footage of Iverson where it's like he's incredible and it's just like any sport that he played, he just would have been incredible.

1:24:56Adam Friedland:It's my favorite YouTube. Just watching. Iverson. What do you think? Do you think he would have been like top five football player of all time. Was he like Dion? What do you think he would have projected as?

1:25:07Bill Simmons:I think he would have been like... I think he would have been like almost like what we want Travis Hunter to be, except he just would have been at a whole other level athletically. Travis Hunter is an awesome athlete. Like he just sort of been like a running back receiver type of person, I think.

1:25:21Adam Friedland:Well, he was like an option quarterback as well, right? But I guess everyone's a quarterback in high school.

1:25:26Bill Simmons:Yeah, you could tell his throwing motion was a little... but he had a big arm though. He did, but it wasn't like the mechanics were off, but then when he took off, he would just run through people. It was like when the gym teacher gets to play with the fifth grade class and he's just dusting everyone.

1:25:42Adam Friedland:Yeah. Oh, it's, it's, I, I watch that video all the time. I also watch, there's a video I really like of Derrick Rose doing a Chicago footwork when he was like the dance battle against someone in high school. And he's an unbelievable, yeah. If a guy like Derrick Rose played, played soccer, I mean, it'd be, yeah.

1:25:58Bill Simmons:conversely Randy Moss playing basketball was great like there's some guys who are just like the greatest athletes we've ever produced white chocolate yeah

1:26:05Adam Friedland:they were on the same team with white chocolate right

1:26:07Bill Simmons:yeah

1:26:07Adam Friedland:unreal yeah there was that that commercial do you remember the Nike commercial oh yeah just a good old boy right yeah I love that shit I think Kyrie would have

1:26:16Bill Simmons:been interesting because you know he's basically ambidextrous right he does yeah so he would have been able to kick perfectly with both feet his footwork and everything would have been great I don't know like It's his center of gravity, too. He gets in these weird angles. He's 6 '3", though? Who's the best 6 '3"? Soccer player? So many, Bill. So many. All right.

1:26:36Adam Friedland:There's so many. Yeah. I mean, Zlatan is doing... Zlatan's 6 '5", I think, right? Yeah. What's cool is that you could be 5 '6", and be the best in the world. Well, that's why so hard it was 5 '10". You could be 6 '4", and be the best in the world. Yeah. yeah, they've had guys that are close to seven footers. And I mean, Peter Crouch was amazing. And he was technically gifted too. He wasn't just doing headers. He could use his feet. You know who would be amazing? Who?

1:27:12Bill Simmons:As like a sweeper slash a six? Castle. Oh my God. He's a dog. He's an absolute maniac. Super physical. goal like 10 out of 10 athlete and um relentless and if you just put him at the six he would have

1:27:28Adam Friedland:been out of control yeah i mean that yeah i think you have like a like a like a i guess a free safety or a or a like a a linebacker playing like in the back line like think of guys like that i mean i don't know yeah it's it's actually we that's the disappointment is that it's just uh i guess i guess we haven't been able to sell it yet you were saying in 2002 we thought that it was like a moment where we could sell it but um we don't like it was coming because it started in 94 that was like the first real moment we're like oh maybe and then um yeah the 02 world cup that was when

1:28:03Bill Simmons:my first year dspn like writing columns and it felt like people cared and um 2014 was another

1:28:09Adam Friedland:one when it felt like the year we lost in portugal right yeah i like the land of donovan uh oh yeah 2010 there's a spirit about them and it felt there was a moment when josie felt like he was gonna be

1:28:19Bill Simmons:the next guy and it felt like we actually had older guys and younger guys and guys on the way up and then all of a sudden we were not qualifying for the World Cup and wondering what happened.

1:28:28Adam Friedland:A good subplot in the World Cup this year is the Canadian coach Berhalter was our coach. I remember. He is just talking shit. He said that it's, what it is, is the Athletic Association. He said the U.S. soccer has an issue. It's structural, he said. but he's also just running his damn mouth which is kind of a cool subplot because we're a co-host in this World Cup I just don't know maybe I'm completely wrong there are people that disagree with me but I'd see them underachieving there's always a bump by being a host nation though it's weird are you seeing where they're doing training camps base camps it's amazing They have a Bosnia-Herzegovina is in Salt Lake City They have Ivory Coast in Philly Which is sick Just imagining that is sick Qatar, Santa Barbara I'm pretty sure They bought the nicest place Obviously There's so many I have a list There's one that was just killing me Now it's bad podcasting But I gotta find it

1:29:43Bill Simmons:I thought you were a better podcaster than this

1:29:45Adam Friedland:I'm sorry, dude.

1:29:46Bill Simmons:I didn't have this prepared. Can I ask you a question about the Canada co-host thing? Yeah. Is this like in college, you're having a party at the main house and you're having it with somebody else, but it's kind of their house is over there and more people are in the big house? Are they an actual co-host? Are they an actual co-host or are they kind of glomming onto us?

1:30:05Adam Friedland:Which Canada? Yeah. I think that they have hate in their gut. And I think that Mexico is a mess right now. Mexico, I see them completely. honestly one of my spices is that as Mexico crashes out of the group stage because their fan base is toxic right they don't have any players that like have any pedigree play in Europe they act like they're Real Madrid and they've never won shit they lose to America now they should be ashamed of themselves and Canada has this like resentment that comes from their coach we have like this pressure of like it's kind of America's World Cup still right what is it Vancouver and Toronto it's like two places right like uh it doesn't i think it we're the main show here yeah and i i think it's the most don't forget canada it's our show yeah it is kind of our but there's um i feel really bad but it's gonna be worth it no we're gonna it's just so wait there's one that is so funny they have so you liked right they have portugal is in palm beach which is like cristiano is definitely going to go Mar-a-Lago.

1:31:08Adam Friedland:For sure. Argentina, this is real. Argentina's in Kansas City, right, in the summer. So apologies to Nick Wright. That sounds like shit. And like, literally there was a tornado warning first day they were there. Messi's just standing silently and still in the middle of a tornado. There's another aspect in Europe, the stadiums are closer to the metropolitan areas. You have the fans kind of marching towards the stadium. Kind of like how MSG is. It's the middle of the city. Going three hours to fucking MetLife. It's just like you don't have that same atmosphere around the stadium and stuff. Also, I'm a little bit worried.

1:31:51Adam Friedland:I'm not going to... Whatever. You know they banned water bottles? That's the other funny thing. People just banned water bottles.

1:31:56Bill Simmons:Can I say something?

1:31:58Adam Friedland:Yeah. What? Is this off to the record?

1:31:59Bill Simmons:Don't ever apologize to Nick Wright. Not on this podcast. Alright. Whatever. Screw that guy.

1:32:05Adam Friedland:Just sucking up the fucking lip balm. No, no, I'm just kidding. No, we like Nick Wright. We like Nick Wright. They ban water bottles? Yeah. FIFA's not letting them bring in water bottles. So they have to buy water. It's like the ticket prices are really expensive. What's going to happen is this. We're going to say, and I'm doing a podcast about it. We're going to say like, oh, guys, like it's too many teams as well. That's the other issue. They like expanded the field. There's no groups of death where like a big team doesn't qualify because they want the big teams in the group stages. I hate that.

1:32:36Adam Friedland:I love the groups of death. I love seeing like Germany crash out of the groups. It's like, it's really, and it makes it exciting from the beginning.

1:32:43Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:32:44Adam Friedland:And, but something is going to happen and we, that the world is going to explode. It's like, there's a high probability where you see Messi and Ronaldo in a knockout, right? And I don't know if I can handle it. Like, it's really just like, he has to lose. Ronaldo has to lose. I can't see, he's going to be so self-satisfied Biden spoke about it, but he, he has a better team. Um, also there's just like, yeah, I was telling you before the like element of Iran being here in the middle of a war and them potentially, if they get second place in the U S getting second place in the groups, they play in Dallas, you know, is it on the 4th of July or is it not?

1:33:24Bill Simmons:I thought it was, it was in the vicinity of it. Yeah. They would play America. And by the way, America getting second place is conceivable. Like that's, they're probably in favor.

1:33:34Adam Friedland:Turkey are flop artists also. I'm not as afraid as Turkey as people are giving them credit for. People are always like, oh, Turkey has something and they always... Them and Belgium, they're just like chronic underachievers. And Egypt during Mosul has been the same way. They're all in the cup and I think they all kind of play stinkers.

1:33:56Bill Simmons:Are you going to try to go to a game or you don't care if you go?

1:33:59Adam Friedland:I'm going to Norway, Senegal. I'm only going if it's free, Bill. I'm not going if you're invited I'm only going if I'm invited it's$100 ,000 for what it's less than the

1:34:09Bill Simmons:game four next tickets

1:34:11Adam Friedland:well that's

1:34:13Bill Simmons:the game four if the next one game three game four next ticket will become the hardest sports ticket of all time because unlike football or baseball it's 20 ,000 seats total yeah

1:34:24Adam Friedland:it is really we were saying before but it is crazy I'm going to stop saying that it is crazy to conceive of where Trump is going to be sitting like if he's courtside and we're just watching it the whole time. It's going to be distracting for a viewer. He's just sitting there. I imagine he's going to be in a box of some sort.

1:34:43Bill Simmons:See, I completely disagree. I think he's going to absolutely be courtside.

1:34:47Adam Friedland:Imagine his Secret Service guy standing in front of Timothee Chalamet.

1:34:50Bill Simmons:Well, it's going to be like when Floyd Mayweather sat courtside. They would have his security guards be behind him.

1:34:57Adam Friedland:And so I guess that would happen.

1:34:59Bill Simmons:Timo can't watch the game. His girlfriend. Well, the funny, the thing I was thinking, if he's courtside, you know, the way Trump sits, because he doesn't cross his legs and he sits with his legs out with his, with his doing the. With the diamond. Doing the diamond. Yeah. But on courtside, the seats are like this and you can't spread your legs out at all like that. It's like the subway. Whoever's on either side of him is going to be miserable the entire game because Trump's going to take up three seats.

1:35:27Adam Friedland:Kendall Jenner is going to be like splurged.

1:35:30Bill Simmons:that's the other thing there's you know courtside you're walking by people there's handshakes there's gonna be people who aren't gonna want the handshake it's gonna be and everybody filming it so if you do the handshake it's on film you know

1:35:42Adam Friedland:I just don't the thing that's nice about sports we don't have to deal with politics it's like it's like a crazy time right now it's like there was like a Jewish there's like this player that could we don't named Max Downman for Arsenal yeah and I was like I told my friend I was like just look up if he's Jewish it would be huge he's up next right I was like can you imagine like if we get one because for us it's just insane if we get one right and then I like realized I was like I don't want him to be I'd rather him not because it's like yeah he's gonna have they're gonna ask him about the war in the Middle East and stuff and he's gonna just don't like don't like it's too much pressure like just don't be like an evangelical or something like be like Sunni Islam.

1:36:31Adam Friedland:Just please don't be.

1:36:32Bill Simmons:I always talk to my friend Chang about this because he loves when there's any sort of Asian. And Mina Kimes is big on this too, but we were texting this weekend about Dylan Harper, Filipino mom. I know. Yeah. So this is like, and I feel like they haven't gotten gotten excited enough about this.

1:36:50Adam Friedland:And Clarkson too.

1:36:51Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:36:51Adam Friedland:They got two in the finals.

1:36:52Bill Simmons:But Harper might be, I mean, he's one of the best young guards that's coming to the league in 30 years.

1:36:57Adam Friedland:I think we're missing how good he is because it's just a Wemby. There was that game in the last... Every series of theirs has been must-see TV. The Spurs.

1:37:07Bill Simmons:I love watching them. I said in the segment before you came on, I think part of the key to the series with the Spurs is realizing that Harper is their second best guy. They just have to accept it. He's 20. He comes off the bench. You just throw it out the window. It's like where Kobe was in 2000. You just got to accept it. this is your guy.

1:37:26Adam Friedland:Do it. Yeah. I think you should ship Swiper. That's what I would do. Get away.

1:37:33Bill Simmons:I mean, they got to figure out how to win this series. They can't think about it next year yet, but ultimately, I would guess Fox is in there.

1:37:41Adam Friedland:The team is really bad when he's not playing, right? When they add a couple pieces, it's terrifying. Yeah. In fact, the Knicks have to win because it's not fair. But, well, that's the thing.

1:37:53Bill Simmons:If the Knicks lose game three, Then that will open up. There's only 48 hours for game four, and that will open up the hole. They have to do this now. This is the best chance they're ever going to have. OKC's going to have everyone back. San Antonio will be a year older. Indiana's getting their guys back. Boston's getting their guys. Like, this is your window right now, New York.

1:38:12Adam Friedland:And it's also just the ghosts of the past. The ghosts of the garden. I mean, it's scary. It's very scary. If they lose game three, it will be terrifying again. Because they were so 50-50, both of those games. Yeah. Right? They could have lost either of them. Usually you win away, it's game over in the series. They're not going to win four or five. I'm like, I don't know. It feels like this series, anything could happen. Every game is just so... It's just actually the best basketball I've watched in so long. We were saying before, but there's so much tibs in the team. There's so much hard-nosed...

1:38:54Adam Friedland:they just get to play less minutes. They don't have to play in March. They don't have to play 48 minutes or whatever.

1:39:03Bill Simmons:One of my weird sports stories is that the more baggage you have, the more likely it is that stuff will happen along the ride to the end of your exorcism journey. Like for the Patriots when we beat the Rams, we had this game-winning... game-winning defensive touchdown that got called back because of a penalty. But as guys run down the sidelines, it's like there's 10 minutes, oh, my God, we just won the Super Bowl. And then it got called back and all these skeletons popped up. And then the Rams scored. There's the fear. Yeah, and it's like, oh, why did I let my guard down? I should have known. And I think for the Knicks, you got a quick taste of it when Brunson, when they fell into his knee in game one, it was like, oh, my God, why didn't I have my guard up?

1:39:53Bill Simmons:And it's just, there's no easy path to getting rid of all the skeletons. You have to have a couple of those as it goes.

1:39:59Adam Friedland:Because you think it's going to happen again and you know how bad it is. Like with Arsenal, the saying is, it's the hope that kills you, right? Because every single year, I think something good might happen. And then it doesn't. And it's kind of a reminder you're going to die one day. If you're a fan of a team that wins every year, you are like, you're like, I'm going to live forever. I'm going to cheat on my tax. I'm going to cheat on my wife. I'm going to like, yeah, I'm just, your life is a cocaine, just fever dream. And you're so happy and you don't think about death ever.

1:40:32Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:40:32Adam Friedland:But if you're a team of like a team or a fan of a team like that, you're like, you're just expecting everything to fall apart all over again. And you're like, I haven't talked to my family in months. It wasn't worth it. Like, like I've just been sitting in this living room and I've, yeah. And my wife's like, did your team lose? And you're like, what does that mean? Did my team lose? Like, and then you get mad, you yell, you go for a walk, you go for a stress walk alone. Yeah.

1:40:58Bill Simmons:I used to do that a lot when I was younger. A lot of dog walks after tough losses. A lot of just walk in the neighborhood.

1:41:03Adam Friedland:I went for a walk after the tuck game. I went for a walk. I'm a Raider fan, but like, I think actually I stopped liking football kind of after that. I was like, fuck football. I was like, this sucks. Like, Charles Winston was my favorite player. Good for you. Good for you. Good for you.

1:41:21Bill Simmons:So, D, if you had to guess with game three, do you think it's going to be an all-time memorable game? Would you go memorable game, disappointing game, or just fucking weird all night from start to finish? Because that's where I would end. The vibe is off. I think the vibe is going to be super weird the whole game.

1:41:41Adam Friedland:The vibe is off. I think it's the Trump of it all. And Big Z's there. Mom Donnie's there, too.

1:41:48Bill Simmons:Big Z. Are you the only one that calls him Big Z? Is that his nickname? Is it Drunas Elgowskis?

1:41:56Adam Friedland:No, no. Mom, Don. It's just like, yeah, Trump. If Trump is courtside and he's making out with Kendall Jenner and Timothy's crying, what are we going to do? Are we going to be watching that game? Can you imagine? He's like, I played Bob Dylan. The truth is, you didn't even pay for this ticket, babe. I mean, neither did I, but they're giving it to me because of me, because I go to the Oscars now and you're making out with the president. how dare you no I mean it's it'll be weird but I think the truth is he shouldn't go because

1:42:29Bill Simmons:it's just like it's too much of a distraction and too much of a hassle for a game that's already complicated enough like in the league obviously if the president wants to go to the game you should go but like no normal president would go to this game they would go to a game in February against like the Raptors they're not going to go to like game three of the finals uproot the entire four-hour infrastructure before the game. And it's just...

1:42:51Adam Friedland:Well, you go to a game where they're going to go nuts if you walk... You go to MMA, right? You don't, like... Yeah, but he might think that's going to happen. People don't think he's doing a good job. He got booed when he went to the polling station in 2016. Yeah. And he, like, changed his residency to... But he misses New York, I think. Actually, I've heard that, yeah.

1:43:08Bill Simmons:This is, like, his way to get back in with dinner.

1:43:10Adam Friedland:Trying to start dating us again. Yeah. Hey, guys. How's it been? It's like when J-Lo and Affleck got back together. I'm living my best life in Palm Beach, just so you know. I don't know if you saw the pictures.

1:43:20Bill Simmons:Wait, but this episode is brought to you by AMC. Entertainment Weekly calls AMC's The Audacity a gripping, funny, and sometimes chillingly of the moment tale. Starring Billy Magnuson and Sarah Goldberg, this Silicon Valley satire looks at what happens when the people building our future are falling apart themselves. From Jonathan Glatzer, a writer and producer on Succession and Better Call Saul, Don't miss the Audacity every Sunday, only on AMC and AMC+. Learn more at amcplus.com.

1:44:14okay to very high.

1:44:17Adam Friedland:Know your sleep score with Apple Watch. iPhone 11 or later required.

1:44:21Bill Simmons:We have to do something quickly on your podcast. So you were on Comptown on ABC, one of my favorite sitcoms. It wasn't a sitcom, it was a podcast.

1:44:33Adam Friedland:It was called Home Improvement. Your initial podcast was Comptown

1:44:36Bill Simmons:and you guys never realized ever that you'd actually make money from it. And then all of a sudden you were making money from it and turned it into an actual, you know, a way to...

1:44:47Adam Friedland:Yeah, everything that's happened in my life has been an accident.

1:44:49Bill Simmons:Well, you thought the podcast was going to promote like your comedy and the weekends and all of a sudden people liked it.

1:44:55Adam Friedland:Yeah, we didn't know that you could make money from podcasting. And then so that we kind of like, I think, yeah, we didn't know how it was growing. They used to ask us for like interviews and stuff and Nick had like a no media policy.

1:45:07Bill Simmons:Smart.

1:45:08Adam Friedland:And I didn't, and it's just like at a certain point then you're like, I had to work two hours a week and I became the laziest man in the world. And so like... Yeah, then I was just like, but it sucked. I mean, you're watching sports for work. Yeah, that's great. I'm so jealous of you. Now that's you.

1:45:24Bill Simmons:That's going to be you during the World Cup. Hosting Beautiful Pod.

1:45:28Adam Friedland:She's not going to respect it. I'm telling you, she's still, she's not going to respect it. I'm a sports pundit. No, no. No. In reality, yeah, this new show started and it was a joke And it's really credit to my old co-host, Nick, because Stavros, who's our friend, he was exhausted and he left Cumbtown. And I was like, but we should keep doing it, Nick. We have a brand. You know, we should. And he was like, no, you got to listen to me.

1:45:55Bill Simmons:There's more cum in Cumbtown. We got to keep going.

1:45:57Adam Friedland:I'm going to turn you into a public intellectual, into like in the vein of Dick Cabot. But like we very publicly pronounced, I think it was a joke. I was the least beloved member of the three by far. Probably the least talented by far, too. And not probably, definitely. I mean, they're like geniuses, the two of them. And then I guess I decided to try for the first time. I never had... I think I was 35. It's really scary, too. You know that? It's scary because if you try as hard as you can, then it sucks. And you feel bad. That's why it's sport. like Wemby was like this because he tried as hard as he could.

1:46:37Adam Friedland:Right. And yeah, it sucks. Like if it does go well.

1:46:41Bill Simmons:That was Shaq in the 2000 season. He's like, I'm really going to go for this and try to win the MVP in the finals. But it's scary because if it doesn't happen, now what? You feel terrible.

1:46:50Adam Friedland:Right. And it's like, yeah. And so then I just somehow it fell in. We didn't know how to make a television show. We publicly pronounced to the world, we're making a TV show. and then we were like, so we should get some cameras, maybe. Then we got an office in like some building and then we built out a set. It was like all happening in real time and then eventually it's become a real thing. Well, one of the best things

1:47:14Bill Simmons:is you have a crazy guest list. I would say eclectic is the right word for it. But you'll basically, you'll interview anybody. You don't care.

1:47:24Adam Friedland:I had Sarah Jessica Parker and then I had one of the Nelk boys in the next episode. Yeah, I kind of like that is having an unpredictable kind of like rollout of guests. Yeah. It kind of makes it fun and feel fresh. But yeah, that's one of the things that I enjoy the most about it. But I don't know. I really like doing them because it's... You were telling me you used to do interviews, but it's cool. I do a lot of research. I do like two weeks of research for each guest. And I have researchers that we hire, like there are some of the journalists and like, you know, people that we bring in and like do research packets for me.

1:48:01Adam Friedland:But like, it's what's really cool is like trying to account for what someone is like that you've never met. And then like building together the evidence that you find on like, you know, that that's been like prepared for you. It's like being an FBI profiler. You want to you want to disarm a guest, right? You want them to be comfortable so they'll open up more. So you have to like kind of try to plan for like whatever tripwires there are so you can like continue to like to like keep them comfortable enough. I think the way I do it kind of maybe a little bit is just to present to them that I'm so unserious.

1:48:31Adam Friedland:They really don't like it's they don't have to worry like I'm a pretty dumb guy and like you know. They let their guard down. I used to be on a show called Comptown. There's a time I pooped my pants during an episode and literally I was laughed at by thousands of people and I went home and I was like I just feel like I did it was like in front of the whole school and I'm like yeah and they might I might not have kids they're gonna hear about that They're going to respect me as a father. And she's like, I think you're getting a little carried away. I was like, dude, why would you even? And how happy it made them that I pooped my pants.

1:49:08Adam Friedland:The joy that they got. No, and now I'm talking to like Gavin Newsom. And it's really shame on them. I don't, I'm not fully aware of why this is happening, but I'm not asking any questions. I guess the show's good. But like, it is really, I don't know. like it's insane how fast this has been it's been a year since I relaunched the show and made it weekly yeah and it's grown like so rapidly and now I get to talk to my hero I had Bill Simmons posters Gavin Newsom? oh I had Bill Simmons posters in my wall oh I thought you meant Gavin Newsom I had Sports Guy articles oh and pinup girls I had your articles next to next to pinup girls and me and the rest the GIs we used to whistle at your articles.

1:49:54Adam Friedland:No.

1:49:55Bill Simmons:Well, you had all these. I noticed something was happening because you started to do really smart press. People write these features about you. I didn't know. Is he the millennium Jon Stewart? I was like, this is great. He's figured it out.

1:50:10Adam Friedland:All my friends made fun of me for that because are you the millennial Jon? And the pictures that they use every time. I'm just like every single. They use one of me like this. And I'm like, every comedian is going to make. I like went to this building for the photo shoot and they like had me go on the floor with a microphone like this and I was like, I like stopped them. I was like, can we not do this one? And they made it the main picture. Like every comedian group chat was like, fuck this guy. I was like, but then I guess the other...

1:50:38Bill Simmons:But that's every comedian group chat anyway.

1:50:40Adam Friedland:Yeah, of course. Yeah. You respect it.

1:50:42Bill Simmons:It's just resentment and barbs.

1:50:43Adam Friedland:Yeah. I don't... Yeah, I guess I like... The other couple ones I didn't know they were writing. I think they were like reviews. but it's just a you know what it is I think it's really sad I think it's sad they don't have anything better than this

1:50:56Bill Simmons:well there was a whole theory post the election about well where is the rogue and manis where's the other version of this and I don't know I never understood it

1:51:05Adam Friedland:a guy that wants to be the president is talking to me yeah to me talking about sports is I'm like excited because we're gonna go like I get to take a break from the show and I'm just banking episodes I'm going on pre-production yeah yesterday I tweeted at Hunter Biden apparently he's coming on the show and so I'm like banking episodes and building out a rollout for season 3 and in the meantime I get to do this sports thing and I get to watch like you know Ivory Coast versus Australia and tell my girlfriend that it's important and this is business and she's like my parents are here right now and you think France

1:51:46Bill Simmons:and Spain are the two favorites That's...

1:51:49Adam Friedland:I think...

1:51:49Bill Simmons:And you like Brazil at plus 8.50 on Fandola. So, Darker.

1:51:53Adam Friedland:I do. There's so many arguments for and against everyone. That's what's kind of fun. Brazil has, like, the magic of Don Carlo.

1:52:00Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:52:00Adam Friedland:The magic of, like, the guy that's just... He just eats food. It just tells them just to have fun out there. And somehow, it's just, like, has this energy, like, this vibe about him that's just, like, creates this... Just... Yeah. Like, I was... Pep Guardiola, like, used to just be in a lair next to a candelabra the night before the Champions League final just with like just constructing the most psycho like tactics and like this is he'll never see this coming and then just lose to Don Carlo the next day. It's just that it was a perfect like just a destruction of like someone that's overly thinking everything and someone that's just like just have fun.

1:52:40Adam Friedland:You guys are so good at sports. Can you imagine when you were little that you knew you were going to do this? That's awesome. You know, he's probably saying stuff like that. And, but like, you know, Portugal has the best mid, the Portuguese midfield is disgusting. It's a joke. I mean, they have Neves, they have Bruno and they have Vitinha. It's, it's like, there's like so many, the, the Dutch backline is the best, you know, and it's just, but they're like issues, they're holes. You could convince yourself a bit. I, I think conventional wisdom is like the France or Spain do it. And like,

1:53:16Bill Simmons:Does America get out of their bracket?

1:53:19Adam Friedland:The bracket? I don't know. Not the bracket, the group. I think they win the group crash out first knockout. That's my prediction. It just feels like that to me. I think that there's something just like there's no energy there. And America, the country, isn't just going nutso for them right now.

1:53:37Bill Simmons:What under 25 player do you think Tommy Alter is going to say, hey, I'm going to dinner tonight with so-and-so. It's between games. Do you want to join us? Which one is he going to glom on to? Yeah, out of any country.

1:53:50Adam Friedland:I don't know. Oh, at the World Cup? Yeah.

1:53:52Bill Simmons:He knows soccer players too? Well, I just feel like he's going to add it to his arsenal.

1:53:56Adam Friedland:Yeah, he's going to go to like a hookah bar with a little meat in your mouth.

1:54:00Bill Simmons:He's like, hey, Mbappe is in town. We're going to go to the Bowery tonight if you want to meet us. 9.30. Yeah.

1:54:05Adam Friedland:Who would I want to? Well, who would I want to chill with with Tommy Alter? I mean, Saka is my favorite player. Yeah, Bukayo Saka. he's like the guy he's the guy at 17 who pulled Arsenal out of like just the worst period in our history and had been there since he was like 8 years old and yeah it's just like there's something special about that he's also another guy who he had a rough season but I'm gonna say he's at a world class talent level in sports but he's uniquely decent as a human being like there is an aspect of like you have to shed your like, uh, humanity kind of sometimes like there's a, like Jordan and Kobe kind of had to build themselves into psychos to like achieve what they achieved.

1:54:50Adam Friedland:Right. And that we, there's an understanding where like, yeah, if you're going to be like, I want to take the last shot at the buzzer and miss, you have to be crazy. You have to be like, I, it has to be me. Right. You have to like kind of, uh, build yourself into a sociopath. And, uh, I've never seen somebody do. He, Webby has it. We love, he took the last shot of game too.

1:55:10Bill Simmons:Like, I don't feel like Shaq would have done that in the second year of his career.

1:55:13Adam Friedland:Well, what even is that? Yeah. I don't know. Like he's Durant and he's what even is he? But, uh, but yeah. Could you think of anyone in sports who's like, just like one of the best players in the world and is just a good guy? I can't think of it. Actually. I think like you have to kind of build yourself into a monster to be like, does that make any sense to you or no?

1:55:37Bill Simmons:I think there has to be a little bit of a zero-sum game mentality to really dominate a sport.

1:55:44Adam Friedland:How could you get ready in the locker room before a game and just be a lovely person? It doesn't make sense. You have to kind of be like, I want to kill today. And I want to humiliate other people. Well, look at Brady now.

1:55:57Bill Simmons:Brady posts NFL and people are like, wow, he's kind of weird. It's like, yeah, because you got to be kind of weird to be the best quarterback of all time.

1:56:05Adam Friedland:We had no idea. Oh, you didn't know? I had no idea that he was weird while he was playing.

1:56:11Bill Simmons:Yeah, we started near the end. He's so offended.

1:56:14Adam Friedland:It's so real to you. It's so funny.

1:56:17Bill Simmons:He's a family member. He brought us six Super Bowls. Did he kiss you on the lips? No. Who did he kiss on the lips?

1:56:24Adam Friedland:The son? The son?

1:56:25Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:56:26Adam Friedland:And so did Belichick, the daughter. There's kind of a nice thing about kissing on the lips. Do you want to leave on that note? No. No, we have to wrap up, though. I know. Okay. I've just been thinking about this last podcast the whole time. No, come on. We're fine.

1:56:42Bill Simmons:No, we hit a lot of the same stuff. It would have changed everything. Why don't you do this? You told a great story about Kobe and Michael Jackson in the last podcast. We can end up that story because it was a really good anecdote. I had never heard it.

1:56:54Adam Friedland:Yeah. Did you look it up afterwards? I didn't. Did I just state any facts? I didn't look it up. Can you just look it up on your computer? I'm not looking it up.

1:56:59Bill Simmons:No, we got to go. Tell the story. we were talking about Kobe and no no seriously well we were talking about Kobe and about how it took him a while to round into Kobe and all the twists and turns and then you told the story I'd never heard

1:57:14Adam Friedland:we were talking about yeah there was something about like him just having his whole thing about mentorship right and then yeah but after bald had Kobe rookie year slam dunk champion apparently he decided he wanted to have a man's body but he needed a man's body not he wanted but he was a child I mean he looked little like LeBron his rookie year looked like that was a grown ass man but yeah apparently he was like at Gold's gym he was like lifting weights and he got a call and he was like Kobe it's Michael and he was like no it's not he hung up and he's like Kobe I swear to God it's Michael don't hang up please please please and so he's like he's like you want to come up to Neverland like I want to meet you and just say what up it would be great to meet you so he went out there and he gave him this book.

1:58:00Adam Friedland:It's like a child's book, Jonathan Livingston's sequel. And he said, this is, I've watched you and you're like me and people are going to heap you with praise and give you everything you want and then they're going to take it away. And you just have to remember that one moment when they take it away that you can't stop. Like you can't stop just like what's driving you. And it's kind of like, that is kind of a good assessment of Kobe's career. A good understanding of it.

1:58:25Bill Simmons:But he does this four years before the trial. right so it was like 1999 range so it was about apparently yeah

1:58:32Adam Friedland:so apparently they were like in touch well before that but since that and then afterwards I think when they both had legal trouble the Eagle Colorado thing Michael's second trial they stopped talking but yeah he was like just you can't forget like you have to just you have to just push yourself as hard as you possibly can and do not let them take that away. And it's kind of, for me personally, I was so sad. How old was he when he had three? He was like 24?

1:59:10Bill Simmons:Probably yeah.

1:59:12Adam Friedland:Which is so many chips at such a young age. And then we were asking ourselves, what could happen now? He could just win a zillion.

1:59:22Bill Simmons:Yeah, but you know, being back there, like being an adult during that it was always Shaq and Kobe together. How many were they going to win together? Can they win eight? And they were always a team. And then the catch would be, can these guys stay together? And then that eventually became the issue.

1:59:38Adam Friedland:So my dad, who got really into American sports and Los Angeles sports, after the Piston series, he stood up with about two minutes to go in the fourth. And he stood up and he shouted, he was like, we never go on family walks. We were like, what? And he's like, everyone get your shoes on. And he was walking like five feet in front of us just pissed. This is Joe Rogan? My dad. Max, my real dad. Yeah. My father, Joe Rogan. I didn't say his name. I just said that he was a host of a show called The Joe Rogan Experience.

2:00:15Adam Friedland:No, but it was so... I have this memory of me and my mom and my sister, he was like 10 feet in front of us. And we were trying to walk fast. He was walking as fast as he could. He was just so mad. The Ben Wallace Pistons. That was an awful... Being a Laker fan, it felt terrible.

2:00:34Bill Simmons:I mean, that was an even more stunning result than the series we're having now. because even though the Spurs were favored, a lot of people, but a lot of people are picking the Knicks. Their center was 6 '7". How big was Ben Wallace? Well, he was like 6 '9". He was 6 '3". And he was bodying Shaq.

2:00:56Adam Friedland:It was like, yeah, what was that team? It was Billups, Tayshaun? We never saw that coming. And yeah, whatever. But yeah, ever since then, tell me how my ass tastes. Shaq Shaq has kind of gifted A fourth ring D-Wade goes on like a Historic tear

2:01:16Bill Simmons:Everyone's laughing at Kobe now

2:01:17Adam Friedland:Shut up

2:01:18Bill Simmons:Shaq was pretty important on that team Gotta defend Shaq

2:01:21Adam Friedland:He rides D-Wade's coattails To a fourth And no But Everyone's laughing at my favorite player And I was like but he's Also I think he was blamed for the breakup of that team Unfairly And I think it was really the buses that, uh, that wanted to break the team up. And I think that in retrospect, like you don't think so.

2:01:44Bill Simmons:There's been a lot of books written about this. Kobe, Kobe wanted his own. Kobe was ready for his own team. And I think he was incredibly frustrated.

2:01:52Adam Friedland:He's like, get smushed Parker on the phone.

2:01:54Bill Simmons:No, but I think he was, I think him and Shaq were not meant to be. They were not meant to be a long-term marriage. And I don't think all the stuff that happened off the court didn't help either. but you know I'm going to say that it wasn't Kobe's fault

2:02:08Adam Friedland:no but in reality I think it's just like you see it it's just like LeBron after the decision the guy who's beloved just everyone's like ha ha like we love seeing we love seeing people destroyed somehow in society and then building them back up yeah in America we do in the UK they don't it's weird when I watch like British sports they don't have a concept of comebacks it's insane but like when Tiger won I cried right yeah Like, cause I was like, I never thought I'd see him again. And I was like, uh, he was when I was a kid, he was like in sports illustrated for kids. And he was like, he was also a kid like me.

2:02:43Adam Friedland:And he was winning by like 20 strokes and making Phil Mickelson want to kill himself every Sunday. Dude, just eat shit every Sunday.

2:02:50Bill Simmons:This is how I felt when I saw the town. I was like, Affleck's fucking back. We are out of the woods. My guy is back. Let's go for a ride. you reminded me that you did this whole bit about Tibbs and Steve Kerr and you wanted to redo it so let's pretend you're ad-libbing this from scratch I asked you if you were Tibbs' best friend watching the next two games away from the finals what would you say to Tibbs?

2:03:21Adam Friedland:I would say, first of all it's great to be best friends with you you're an incredible guy you shout a lot and also like what's going on with your throat? Like, you're always hoarse. Should I make a little tea with honey? I have echinacea. Are you sick? Do you think it was necessary to play everyone 47 minutes in November?

2:03:44Bill Simmons:Why didn't you trust Shaman? No, but you're trying to lift him up, though, because the Knicks are two games in the finals. Your DNA runs through these boys.

2:03:52Adam Friedland:I mean, that is a fair point, to be honest. He built how hard-nosed they are, and especially like seeing them collectively deal with Wemby. There is something about like, they're like, yeah, he's made them tough. Like all the, even, I know Kat, Kat's been, had a new coach for a year, but like, it's a, it's a cat that we haven't seen yet. Right. Yes. And it's like, but I, but I do, I feel bad. I do for like Mark. I felt really bad. Mark Jackson, but he was doing the ABC broadcast the year after he retired or retired. He was asked to leave because it was just like, How must he have felt like watching that?

2:04:31Adam Friedland:It must have been like watching your wife having sex with a man who has the biggest penis in the world. And not only, she orgasms after orgasms. Just sitting there saying, hand down, man. That was good to people, but oh. Just like he's whispering in her ear. And you have to, not only, no, wait. Not only do you have to watch your wife having sex with her, the guy that's giving her the sex of her life. You have to give a play-by-play on ESPN and ABC for the next five years. You have to do... Yeah, and now he's... Reverse Cowgirl. And that's a great reverse cowgirl. Whatever he does. And that's good to eat, but better.

2:05:11Yeah.

2:05:12Adam Friedland:Hand down, man. Yeah. I mean, I think... I would hope that Van Gundy was just nice to him and said, like, listen. Listen. Come on, man. You're a good guy.

2:05:23Bill Simmons:You're a good guy. She wouldn't have known that she was going to love it. like this until

2:05:29Adam Friedland:she went through the marriage with you. She had no way of knowing. I didn't even know a woman could have to. This would have happened with you.

2:05:36Bill Simmons:You were great.

2:05:40Adam Friedland:Are you sure for a job you want to be doing the play-by-play? Mike Breen is saying bang over and over again excitedly. Every time your wife comes, Curry bang!

2:05:52Bill Simmons:Bang! Alright, we're wrapping up. Adam Friedland show coming back in July and the beautiful pod starting in June on Wednesday. Chris Ryan, many others, maybe I'll have to pop up. Putting out the hat.

2:06:04Adam Friedland:Signing ceremony.

2:06:05Bill Simmons:Signing ceremony. Great to see you. All right. Thanks, Adam Friedland. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to State Farm for sponsoring today's show. Thanks to Adam Friedland. Don't forget, he is coming aboard. Go check out his podcast if you haven't listened to it. It's great. Really fun interviews with a whole variety of eclectic people. Uh, he's really good at what he does. Excited to have him with the world cup, excited to lend him CR for a few weeks. You know, we don't always do that. A lot of people want to borrow CR. Um, thanks to how and Eduardo and everybody from my side as well.

2:06:38Bill Simmons:Um, here's the plan. Monday night game three, it's going to end. And then Rob Mahoney and I are going to be live on Netflix, breaking down what is sure to be a memorable game in some respect. I don't know what's going to happen. I'm prepared for anything. New Rewatchables is coming Monday as well. We did Single White Female. We're in the middle of From Hell Month. Also, we put up a mailbag on Thursday if you missed that one. Just about an hour, but bang through some really fun questions for that. I will see you in 32 hours, 36 hours, something like that. Enjoy game three. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming.

2:07:23Bill Simmons:If you have a problem, call 1-800-GAMBL or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 888-79-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York for Louisiana. Call 877-770-7867.

2:07:55Bill Simmons:Turn it up. Storm has zero sugar and 200 milligrams of caffeine. So you can turn that workout up a notch. Good energy in, good energy out. Energy for life.

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