Charles Barkley on Skinny Luka, the Eagles, LeBron, Jokic, Josh Allen, and His Uneasy ESPN Partnership

27:54Then they won game three. And he finally went back to his enormous, the lineup like, yo, man, you don't change up things when you got the best team. You've been the best team in NBA all season. And I thought that was the only time I felt like I was like, yo, man, don't do that again. You almost cost your team the championship. But I said midway past all-star game, I started making predictions. And I said, nobody can beat this Oklahoma City team four times in a row. They're too good, man. They're one of the deepest teams we've ever had in the NBA. They remind me a lot of the old Pistons back in the Isaiah Thomas days.

28:35Everybody talked about Isaiah and Joe Dumars, who were great. But Hartenstein is Lambeer. and then coming off the bench, they had Sally, James Edwards, Benny Johnson, Mark Aguirre. I mean, they had like 10 players, and you can just plug them in. And it was amazing to watch them play. And they're going to be tough. The only thing you got to worry about with them is they're going to get everybody's best slap next year, and it's going to be a shock to their system. they've been like the cool little kids for the last couple years they finally reached their potential but now when you hunt it man it's a different animal it's a different animal sometimes the teams will go up a level defending like I remember the 92 Bulls were like that after they got the first one they were like ripping through the next year they had Michael Jordan listen you know all this stuff I love talking about players.

29:40And people always ask me the difference between Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, and LeBron. Because those are three best players I've seen in my generation. The two most important players ever are Maddie Johnson and Larry Bird, because they made the NBA what it is today. But the three best players I've ever seen were Michael, Kobe, and LeBron. And I'll tell you the difference in the three. Michael and Kobe are dangerous. They'll kill your ass. LeBron's a nice guy. And I said, and that's not a knock. He's still great, great, great, but he's a nice guy. Michael and Kobe aren't nice guys. Like, they're different.

30:24And the one thing about OKC, even though I think Shea is a great, great player, he, to me, is more like LeBron. He's a really nice guy. He's not out there trying to kill you. And I think that's the difference. And Jalen, they got a bunch of really, really good players, and that's fine. But I always tell people, the difference between Michael and Kobe, man, they are dangerous. I mean, they really wanted to kill you and humiliate you. And that's not – like, I think Tom Brady's like that. Yeah, he is. Yeah. I think there's very few players. Out of all the great players I've ever met in my life, I think Michael and Kobe, Tom Brady, Roger Clemens.

31:16Roger Clemens. I think they want who? Roger Clemens? Yeah, Roger Clemens. Where did that come from? He'll throw it to your head in a minute. Right. You're talking about mean-spirited great athletes. Yes. like they're going to do whatever it takes to win. They ain't worried about who liked them and they ain't worried about your feelings. And there's nothing wrong with that. And like, everybody's not built like that. I'm not even built like that. Like, I think I'm a pseudo tough guy. Like I want to win, but like, I like, I'm just not like those guys. Yeah. You're still the guy buying drinks for everybody in the plane.

31:52MJ would have been playing cards. Yeah, and MJ wouldn't have paid for other people's drinks. Just probably his and whoever he was playing cards with. What you just laid out, I think about a lot. Because the guy, the all-time guy that everybody says was like that was Bill Russell. Like he just wanted to destroy people. Yes. Everything he did was about trying to get in somebody's head, intimidate people. Like with Wilt, he made friends with Wilt to try to get closer to him, to make Wilt go less hard at them when they played. All he wanted to do was win and take care of business at the end of games.

32:24The MJ stat that I love, I think it was like eight straight years. He never lost three straight games ever. He just wouldn't accept it. There's nobody who's been wired like that. That's why he can sustain it. The closest I've seen is Kobe. I saw a picture today, as a matter of fact. I was scrolling, and they got a picture of Magic Johnson. He was talking about Magic. He was talking about Michael's the best he's ever seen as far as talent, work ethic, and mental toughness. Michael has this look in his eyes, Bill. And I said, that's Michael Jordan right there. Like they had, and nobody else notices this because Magic is dribbling the ball.

33:04Michael's guarding him, but they got Magic's quote. And the look in Michael's eyes, I was saying to myself, that's the guy, that's the guy right there. I remember the picture. He's kind of looking up and he looks like a serial killer. Like a serial killer. Like a serial killer. That's 100%. Let me tell you this quick Olympic story. So John Thompson, who's one of the greatest men I've ever met in my life. So I get cut from the Olympic trials. And my coach, Sonny Smith, says, hey, I got a call from John Thompson. He wants to talk to you. And he says, come to my office at this certain time. So he puts him on the speakerphone.

33:50He said, Sonny, I just want you to know, Bobby was an asshole. Charles deserved to make the Olympic team. He was the second best player there. Bobby didn't like Charles. He never told us why. Charles got down to the final 20, but he was the second best player. He should have made the team, but Bobby just didn't like him. He was the second best player there. And I said, Coach, I really appreciate the call, and I want to thank you for the kind words. and he said, he said, you don't, I said, why did he not like me? He said, he never told us why, but he just didn't like you. And I said, fine. So he hangs up and Sonny says to me, wow, I'm a little surprised.

34:29I says, what do you mean? He says, I thought you were the best player in the country. I swear, I'm fucking not. I said, coach, I saw the greatest player I've ever seen in my life. We became friends. It was the most amazing thing I've ever seen in my life. He's a little taller than me. He's about 6 '6". He's jet black. He can outrun everybody. He can outjump everybody. And he is out here trying to go. And I said, what's his name? I said, his name is Michael Jordan. And I think Michael is either a freshman or a sophomore. He wasn't as a coach. And I'm used to playing against Melvin Turpin, Sam Bowie, Kenny Skywalker, Dominique Wilkins and those flowers at Georgia.

35:19I played against Hakeem in college. So I'm not playing against, I played against Foss Lama Jamma. Yeah. As a freshman or sophomore, I can't remember which one it was. So I'm used to playing against like real deal dudes. I mean, Florida had a guy named Ronnie Williams and Vernon DeLancey. They were awesome. And I'm like, this dude is something scary I've never seen, Coach. Like I say, he a little taller than me. He cannot run everybody. And he got an attitude. He's out here. And man, that was the first time I played against Michael, and it was scary, Bill. Like I say, he was going... I seen Roy Williams talk about like, I had to tell Michael to stop going so hard every day, even in practice.

36:03I mean, he's wired. I'll give you another story. So we're playing in the Terminal Americas in Portland, Oregon. we're playing Puerto Rico. So me, David Robinson, Chuck Bailey, and David Robinson go play 18 holes that morning. So we're done. We said, Chuck, let's go get some rest. We got a game tonight. Michael said, I'm going to play 18 more. Chuck says, we got a game tonight. He says, I'm going to play 18 more. So we leave. He goes play 18. We went back and got some rest. We get to the game. And Michael, we're all getting dressed. and he's like, David, you got this dude. Charles, you got this dude.

36:46Irvin, you got this dude. Michael looks up and says, I got him. And Chuck says, he's the point guard. Michael says, I got him. Chuck says, okay, Bill, we start the game. Michael's screaming at this little kid from Puerto Rico. Don't you ever fucking say anything about me in the newspaper. he's guarding this dude like it's game seven. This is after 36 holes, Bill. He's screaming at this little kid and we're looking around like, yo man, there's something wrong with this dude. He's screaming at this kid from Puerto Rico. Don't you ever say anything about me. I read what you said in the newspaper.

37:27He's doing that little drill, that little drill where you turn people, which most people, they're fast enough if you can't turn them. He's guarding this dude like it's game seven and he's screaming at this kid. That was the first time I realized he didn't have a full deck. So then we're in the Olympics and we're playing Croatia. Yeah. They got Tony Kukos, who's having like 40 points a game. Him and Scotty and Michael says, Chuck, we're going to take turns, guarding Scott, Tony Kukos. We're not going to let him score. Guys are having 40 points a game. You know, one thing about those international teams, They run the same play for the same guy.

38:13Yeah. It was one of the best defensive performance I've ever seen. These dudes are talking in timeouts. They're screaming at us, let us get over the pick. Just head for a second. We're going under on this one. Like, they're guarding this dude. They're like, we're not going to let him score. I think he finished like some seven for 30, something like that. It was some of the best. that's why I said Michael is wired different it was beautiful and amazing those are the two most interesting things that I've ever seen him do man he's just wired differently yeah that's why the Pippen stuff was sad after the last dance that that relationship went sideways because as great as Jordan was I always felt like those guys together were it's own kind of awesome thing and I don't know I always felt like Jordan appreciate it and then Pippen feels like he seems like he's underappreciated with that whole aspect.

39:11And it's really sad. You know, first of all, I have never won a championship, but if you won six championships, that's pretty damn special. Yeah, you should be bonded by that. But jealousy is a dangerous thing, man. Yeah. Jealousy is a dangerous thing and it's really unfortunate. Michael Jordan made us all a lot of money. he made us all a lot of money NBA wise shoe apparel wise clothing deals commercials see that's the thing a lot of people don't understand athletes were not making commercials until Michael Jordan nobody had a shoe deal you saw with that movie Air nobody was getting a percentage of shoes until Michael Jordan he's made they weren't making no percentage of shoes back then, they were getting a little money, him and Magic, but they wasn't making any money.

40:08Michael's mom said, hey, we're going to get a percentage of shoes. Michael said, no, we don't do that. He says, oh, well, we're going to do it now. I started getting paid because of Magic, Michael Jordan. But like I say, nobody was making money for shoes. Nobody was shooting. Now, seeing jocks in commercials is like saying hello. So shout out to Michael Jordan for making us all a lot of money, brother. You know, speaking of commercials, LeBron did that Forever King commercial. Did you see it? That Nike thing?

40:38I probably saw it, but it didn't pay it that much attention. Yeah, it was like this, I don't know, 45-second commercial about all the people he's vanquished. And it's like just close-up shots of him with a crown on. I think he's, I don't really understand what his MO is. And if you talk about it, it's like, well, you're being critical. on him. It's like, this guy's one of the best players of all time. That's the only thing I hate about LeBron. First of all, he's a great, great player. He's an amazing person. Really nice guy. But for him and his guys, if you don't say he's the greatest ever, it's like you could commit treason.

41:15Right. You're either for them or against them. It's like, can I just say you're one of the greatest players of all time? No, you cannot. You cannot. If you do not say he's the greatest of all time, you'll commit treason. I mean, you can't even mention Michael, Kobe, Bill Russell. I mean, that's a faction of Kareem people. I actually feel like Kareem is the one guy who get left out. 100 % agree. Yeah. I mean, because nobody has a better career, high school, college, and pros than Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Plus, he left four years at UCLA that he could have been in the NBA just putting up stats and he would have been one of the best guys.

41:51And, you know, but that's the only thing I don't like about LeBron and his guys. they're like if you don't say he's the greatest thing since sliced bread they hate you and it's really sad and it pisses me off when it happens too but yo man it's just people's opinion because first of all most of these young punks today in the public they never saw michael jordan play right they never uh most of them never saw kobe play they definitely didn't see kareem or bill russell play but for some reason this generation oh you're being blasphemous saying LeBron and listen I got a number of love and respect for LeBron because I said this before he's probably had the best career ever for him and Kareem no I'm talking as far as high school players because if you remember some Bill Colby struggled in the beginning right Kevin Garnett struggled in the beginning all those high school players struggle a lot.

42:55Remember, they booed Kobe early in his career. But I can say this. LeBron James is the only player in my 40 years in the NBA who came right out of high school and played well. I had his first game. I had his first game. LeBron James in my 40 years. Kobe became great. Kevin Garnett became great. McGrady, all these guys. But I can honestly say LeBron James is the only one who came out of high school who played well right away. I think he's in a weird spot with this Luka situation because from the moment... No, he's not. It's time to move on, brother. Well, but I don't think he feels like it's time to move on.

43:35Like when they did the press conference... Wait, Kareem... Bill, see, this is the problem. Yeah. Kareem did it with Magic. Tim Duncan did it with Tony Parker, Ginobili, and Kawhi Lennon. He doesn't want to do it, though. You have to, Bill. Listen, I agree with you. I'm just telling you what I'm watching. Like when they put the statement out and they said like we got to be more committed to winning a title. It's like you've Luke on your team. You're committed. Like they're not trying. Yeah. They went out and got Luka Dunchik. They're not trying. Hey man, I don't like when guys the baton has to be passed from everybody.

44:11It's passed from everybody. The Lakers haven't been relevant. The bubble was the last time they've been relevant. Right. I hear people talking about LeBron's putting up good stats. But the Lakers have not been relevant since the bubble. Now, are they relevant? Bringing in Luka helps, but I'm not going to pick them. They lost to the Timberwolves last year. They're not relevant with OKC, the Nuggets, or the Rockets, in my opinion. I'm not going to pick the T-Wolves or the Lakers over those top three teams. Well, you saw it from the course of your career. Like, the league is about young guys and then guys in their prime and then older guys trying to hang on.

45:00Once you're in that last group, it's so much tougher to go 100 games. Yeah, but it's easier. It shouldn't make it easier. Kareem, like, okay. I bet Kareem won. Yeah, you can't count Kareem, though. I mean, Kareem had the most unstoppable shot in the league. I know that, but what you say, Magic were responsible for the last – him and James Worthy probably were responsible for the last two championships. And for Tim Duncan, who's the greatest power forward ever, I think Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, not Duncan, Duncan, excuse me, Parker, Ginobili, and Kawhi Leonard probably were responsible for the last two championships.

45:37There's nothing wrong. He still get the championship ring. If the Lakers win the championship and Luka wins the MVP, don't LeBron get a championship ring? Come on, man. Stop it, Bill. I'm on your side. I agree with you. I don't know what he sees. Because the move would be, I lucked out. I have one of the best four guys in the league on my team again. How do I fit in at the age I'm at to add him? I know. But I don't know if he wants it. Because it seems like if he could have forced a trade over the summer, he probably would have. I would look at it as like, this is an amazing situation. You can pick your spots.

46:16You can probably play 55 games during the season. Luca will do all the work and then turn it on in the playoffs for 10 weeks. And you win. You win if you make the finals. You win if the team succeeds. It's like Ernie Johnson. Ernie wins when your show's good. Ernie's not like, I got to get my takes off today. Ernie's like, I have these three guys. I have to make them better. I win if the show's good. That's how LeBron has to think. You know what's interesting about you saying that? I hate these guys so much who whine about that bill. as a guy who was dying for better players around me. Yeah. When you see these things where guys can't play together, you're saying to yourself, like Kyrie didn't want to play with LeBron.

47:04I'm like, why not? Right. Kobe didn't want to play with Kobe and Shaq. I'm like, what do you mean y 'all don't want to play together? That got personal, though. I know. That went to another level. But that's my point. These guys drive me crazy. Like, I'm dying to play with other great players. Like, who want to come to Philly and play with me? Who want to come to Phoenix and play with me? Like, when I hear these guys, like, I want to be the guy. Like, I want to be the guy, too, on a winning team. I don't have to be the guy, especially when I'm not the same player. when I hear this stupidity, like Kobe and Shaq probably should have won three more championships.

47:50If Shaq had to say, hey, you know what, Kobe, you're responsible for the last championship probably. I probably can win a couple more if I just shut the hell up and play. And now it's time for a special part of today's episode brought to you by YouTube. One of my favorite places. Mark your calendars, NFL fans. Kansas City, the Los Angeles Chargers. They're facing off in San Paolo on Friday, September 5th for the first time ever. YouTube streaming it free for absolutely everyone. It's 100 % free. Carol G will be the halftime performer. Can't miss the game, obviously. It's Mahomes. It's AFC West.

48:29It's a classic. Coverage starts at 7 p.m. ET on September 5th for the 8 p.m. ET kickoff. Is there a better way to spend your Friday night? I can't think of one. I like the Chiefs as you've heard from my podcast I'm just feeling like an off year for the Chargers and the Chiefs laying the smack down trying to remind everybody that they're here the neutral field thing I'm just we'll talk about it on Thursday's podcast but I am in on the Chiefs in this game and you could be in you could be one of the 100 % of the people watching this game live for free on YouTube on September 5th Carol G performing at halftime watch it live only on YouTube.

49:11Certain local broadcasts available. Head to youtube.com slash NFL on Friday, September 5th at 7 p.m. ET. 8 p.m. ET kickoff. Chiefs, Chargers. You might have heard of both of those teams. Game available via YouTube globally except in Canada and certain other countries. Game will also be available on free over the air broadcast television, local markets of the participating clubs. And this is why I defend Duncan so much. and Duncan now as the years pass and people can just look up his stats and I'm like, oh, this guy's better. Like Duncan could have averaged, I don't know, five, six more points a game.

49:47He could have had better everything if he wanted to, but he was all about like, we're winning 70 % of our games. I'll come in and out when they need me. And when they really need me, guess what? I'm the best power forward of all time and I'll be there. But he was very generous with, you know, all he cared about was how the team was doing and he was inclusive and how to raise guys' levels. And I don't know why we don't treasure that as a basketball fan community. Because you guys, you guys. I'm not a you guys in this. I'm on your side on this. No, no, but you guys in the media, not you, particularly jackasses on television, it's like, whose team is it?

50:22And things like that. And that's, like, I'm sitting back watching. I'm like, yo, man. Like, let's say hypothetically, is it Dr. J's championship or Moses' championship? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. That's why that goes back to my original point. Man, I would have loved to win a championship with another guy beside me. That's what drives me crazy about these fools on television. They go on TV every day. Like I was, you know, this weekend, this weekend I was saying to myself, oh, shit. I would hate to be Arch Manning and Bill Belichick this week because I know how the losers on television are going to react.

51:09I know how stupid the public is. They don't even understand. But I was saying to myself, man, I'd hate to be Arch Manning Monday. And I'd hate to be Bill Belichick Tuesday because I know how these fools on television are. I knew they were going to crush Arch Manning, and I knew they were going to crush Bill Belichick. And I sent Bill a text Monday. I says, hey, man, because, you know, me and Bill are close. I said, I just want you to know, I know it's a lot of people hoping you fail. But I always want you to know you're my guy, and I'm rooting for you. have a great season. But as I knew, this morning, they were going to crush him.

52:08That's the way this business is now. It's unfortunate. And like I say, I knew Archie Manning's played one football game of significance. He's an 18, 19-year-old kid. He goes against a hell of a team against Ohio State. and I said he's on the road it's his first big start huge spotlight I said man these guys these fools on TV gonna kill him Tuesday excuse me kill him Sunday and Monday but that's the environment we're in now Bill and it's really unfortunate I mean it's really unfortunate because that's the way you get recognized and make money now and that's and that's sad I thought I thought it really hurt the NBA the last couple of years.

52:58And you know, you, you guys took some, some bullets on it too, from talking about old generation versus new generation. You guys were too negative about the current game. Um, but I, I, I actually was more on your side with some of that stuff. The stuff I don't like is when we're, you know, and there's people that do it that I actually like, like you and I both like Stephen A. But when he was on the, when he was on the NBA countdown show and every halftime is about this guy's got to step up because they're losing because of him. Where is he? And it's just, I don't know. It's just not for me. I think what we're losing, number one, you have a great point.

53:35But this, we got so many great players in the NBA, but these fools spend all their time comparing, like Michael Jordan's dead, okay? Michael Jordan's dead. He's been retired forever. Yeah, over 20 years. Yeah. These fools spend all their time comparing him to LeBron. I'm like, why? Michael Jordan's been dead for 20-some years.

54:03Let's let LeBron be LeBron. We're starting to do the stupid shit in golf now. Man, Scottie Sheffield is just as good as Tiger. I'm like, damn, y 'all just see him ruin the NBA. We can't appreciate LeBron's greatness or Steph Curry's greatness we got to prepare him to a guy who's been dead for 20 years. I'm like, Michael Jordan is great, but so is LeBron. So is Kobe. So is Steph. So is Joker. Why do y 'all have to get on TV? First, because they got no talent. They got no talent, Bill, because they know people are going to go on the internet and argue with them or go on the internet on these radio shows and argue with them.

54:47That's why they do it. Now I see these fools doing it in golf. Scottie Scheffler, he's great. I love Scottie Scheffler. He's as good as Tiger. I'm like, well, I'm sitting here like, Scottie Scheffler is 29, and he's won four majors. Tiger won four majors at 24. After winning three amateurs in a row before he even turned pro. I'm not sure. And Tiger's won 30 times by then. and Scotty's won 17 times. He's 29. Why can't we just appreciate his greatness? Why y 'all have to be lazy and just bring that up? Tigers is a once-in-a-generation type player. Scotty, if he keeps rolling, he's the best in this generation.

55:38But these guys, they need hot takes on television and radio because they need fools to click on them on the internet or called into their radio shows. It drives me crazy. I said, Michael's the best I've ever seen. I love him and respect him. The next I've seen is Kobe. Now, the last 20 years have been Steph and LeBron. I don't have to compare them. I can appreciate their greatness. Scotty is the best we got going today. I don't have to compare him to Tiger or Jack or Arnie or Gary Player. But these guys have become lazy because they know people are going to get on their computer and come after them.

56:21Or a lot of them have radio shows. I have friends in Philadelphia where I live during the summer. I play golf with them in the morning. Yeah. And I said, what are you going to talk about today? They're like, we're going to talk about Michael, Kobe, LeBron, guys like that. I'm like, why are you doing that? Is Jalen Hurts good enough, even though he already won a Super Bowl? Yes. Can you win two Super Bowls with Jalen Hurts? That's our topic today. Yeah. And they tell me the truth. They're like, Charles, you don't understand how the media works. I said, this is in the 80s and 90s, Bill. And they said, this is how the media works.

57:02We got to get fools to call in and argue with us for four hours. We don't believe half the shit that we say. I said, what? He says, I'm on radio for four hours. Yeah. If I say Michael's the best, half the people going to call in and say he was. The other half going to call in and talk about LeBron. He's the greatest. But then some sprinklers going to come in, talk about Bill and Wilt. He says, that's what our job is in the media. We are on radio for four hours. And then I was like, wow, that's interesting. And these are some of my great friends who have some of the most popular shows in Philadelphia in the 80s and 90s.

57:48They're like, our job is just to get people and call in and argue for four hours. It taught me a lot about the media. Now, the difference is now is they're all on TV making millions of dollars. Yeah. And that was one reason I was hesitant to do the ESPN deal, to be honest with you. I was going to ask you about that. Because I don't want to do that. Like, I want to go on TV. One of the reasons I love doing your podcast, and I'm not saying it's going to be a podcast. I don't do many podcasts. I like you. And I know you're going to be honest on a straight shooter. Even if I disagree. Right. I know.

58:29One of the reasons I hated Skip Bayless, like, yo, man, people, you can disagree with people. but people believe television is so powerful people believe what we say they do and i don't mind agreeing or disagreeing with people but i ain't gonna say shit just to get people to call in and argue with me that's one reason i like you i know you're like i'm gonna try to do my job to the best of my abilities. I don't care who clicks on to me. I ain't trying to get people to like me or dislike me. That's the reason I first developed a hatred for Skip Bayless. Like, yo, man, you can't. Like, people believe what we say.

59:17Right. Like, I had one of these a couple weeks ago. Because I genuinely think Josh Allen was the best QB in the league last year, even though the results didn't happen. He was. And I was saying, like, so trying to figure out who's the quarterback hierarchy heading into this year. And I'm like, I just think Josh is the best QB. I know Mahomes has the resume. I don't think he was that good last year by his standards. And I can't put him first based on what he did three years ago. So I got friends who work at ESPN. Yeah. And there's a racial component of it, too. Right. Well, the Jokic and B thing was brutal.

59:53That was the worst. I said, they asked me my opinion. I said, I think Josh Allen's MVP. Right. They're like, well, what about Lamar? I said, Lamar had a great year. He's amazing. I love Lamar. I said, but your question is, who had the best year? I said, who's Derek? Who's Josh Allen got in the backfield? Now, the Cook kid is a good player. He's not Derek Henry. Right. He's not Derek Henry. Which coaching staff would you rather have? Which infrastructure? Who are Josh Allen wide receivers? I think the best one was Shakir. Shakir. Yeah. And then the kid who, the Coleman kid, who's the rookie. Then you got the kid who comes to games who's naked.

1:00:39And I says, Josh do not have, and they had a better record, and they beat him head to head. I said, so if he's got Derrick Henry, the best running back in the league, He's got better wide receivers. But Josh Allen, they thought the Bills were going to take a step back because they cut everybody after last year. I picked them to miss the playoffs last year. They lost so many guys. They had a better record than the Ravens. Yeah. Why was he not the MVP? If this was the NBA, we'd be going, Josh Allen needs more help. And Josh Allen's agents would be leaking stuff. They got to make a move. They need a star receiver.

1:01:18And that's another thing I hate about the move. to be honest with you. The ESPN move. Yes. These guys get on TV every day and says, are they wasting Giannis' career? Giannis won a title already. I know, but I'm saying they're wasting the Joker's career. And I'm saying they got to get LeBron some help. Yeah. And I'm saying, well, wait a minute. I don't remember y 'all saying that shit about me and Patrick Ewing, y 'all never got on TV and said, we're wasting Charles Barkley's career in Philadelphia. I was saying it, but I was in a bar in Boston. I didn't have a microphone. It drives me crazy because that's this thing now.

1:02:06If you don't win every year, they want you to move. They're like, Giannis got to move. They're wasting him. I'm like, wait a minute. I was in Philly. I had no help. Patrick Young was in New York. He had no help. I remember y 'all getting on TV saying, help Patrick, help Charles. But on TV now, should Giannis want to lead Milwaukee? Should the Joker want to lead Denver? I'm like, damn, what happened? Well, y 'all have this new dynamic. I'm like, damn, I want to help in Philly. y 'all didn't never say Charles needed help but now every star he's got to get out of there I know but think about Dirk Nowitzki in 2011 is the best example of this where we could have done this whole cycle with him for four years after they lose that Warriors and he stays and he ends up winning there and that's like the best title anyone won in the last 15 years that's like two titles yeah but there's this new thing now Bill when they see a great player, especially if he's in a small market.

1:03:18They're like, he's got to get out of there. He needs to move. I'm like, damn, where were y 'all when I was in Philly? Right. When I was going out there with Shelton Jones, no disrespect, when I was going out there with my new bowl in Shelton Jones, I remember y 'all saying, hey, we got to get Charles some help in Philly. Some of it's the people around the players, too. It's the agents, it's the handlers. They have a trainer now, and they're just kind of constantly, you should be bigger. You should be a bigger star in a bigger market. You got to get more money. You're better than this guy. You're better than your teammate.

1:03:50And then you start planting the seeds and you go. You mentioned the ESPN thing. I talked on a pod a couple of months ago and I feel like I have a pretty unique perspective because I did the NBA show there and I saw how they do shows and how they prioritize the pregame, the halftime, the commercial breaks, giving people time to speak. And the reason you guys had the best studio show of all time, other than the talent, was that you had these producers that actually let it breathe, that gave you like eight, nine minutes at halftime in a row to have a conversation. Do you feel like you're going to be able to do that at ESPN?

1:04:24And what happens if you can't? Well, number one, thank you for the compliment. We don't know. this has been one of the worst. TNT just sucks, to be honest with you, Bill. They made this deal. They haven't told us when we're going to work. They haven't told us how it's going to work. Because we've been talking behind the scenes. After the game, are we going to get any time and they're going to say, hey, you guys got to go to SportsCenter? Well, listen, they've always gone right to SportsCenter. That's always how it's worked. I've asked that question. like you're right that's the best part of our show after the game we can like have conversation and have fun are they going to say you guys got 3 minutes 5 minutes 15, 20, 30, 45 are we going to go straight to sports center they haven't given us an answer whatsoever and TNT I think they sold the show and they haven't been non-communicable at all they got paid They got paid.

1:05:30Because the thing is with these shows, you can do the pregame show forever and it's fun, but it's basically like a podcast. You're guessing what's going to happen. The postgame is the secret sauce because you just watch the game. You're reacting to it. And that was when I did it, I would get mad because they didn't give a shit about hearing from us after the game. And it's like, well, we shouldn't be here then. Why are we on location? You're going to do a four-minute segment with us. Just setting up the game is the easy part. Now you can tell why team won and the team lost, who played good, who played bad.

1:06:00Like, that is the secret sauce. They have not said anything to us about, hey, are we going to be able to do that after the game? And like I say, TNT didn't care. They just took, like, they think we morons. If they think we don't think they got paid something, I mean, come on, we're not fooled. Oh, yeah. Also, they have a rule with the finals about on ABC, you have to get the fuck out of there and throw it to local news, like, with a certain, so you're going to have to switch channels to watch you guys, which ain't nothing either. I want to tell you something, what you just said, because to me it's going to be one of the biggest issues.

1:06:38I've been telling my friends, they're like, what do you think? I says, well, number one, we're concerned about the whole ESPN thing as far as we have to go to sports. I said, but I think the NBA's got a big problem. I says, how are they going to tell people what night the games are on? I says, the games have been on 40 years. They've been on ESPN on Tuesdays, excuse me, on TNT on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Right. And ESPN Wednesday, Friday, then Saturday night, then some Sunday. But Saturday is gone because of Amazon. So when I met with NBC, they said, we're going to do games on Monday and Tuesday.

1:07:21And then when the NFL ends, we're going to do Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. I think ESPN is going to do Wednesday and Friday, and I think Amazon is going to do Thursday and Saturday. But my thing is, how are regular fans going to like, okay, it's Tuesday, especially when they start putting games on. Yeah, where do I go? Well, like, you know, sometimes the game is going to be on Peacock. And, like, it's not going to be on NBC. I think that's a huge dilemma for the NBA. Guess what? They don't care. They got so much money. They're going to wipe their tears with cash. Bill, I'm so glad you said that.

1:08:09I think it's a big deal because they just took all the money from all three networks. I don't think they give a shit about the fans. and I think this is going to come back to bite them, to be honest with you.

1:08:53Well, if you talk to anybody from the NBA, as I know you have, how many years have they been complaining about how ESPN covers the league? I mean, at least 10, right? 10, 12, 15. Like, I hate the, we hate the discourse. We hate that they do that. And it's like, you just took their money again. You can't say anything. You took their money one more time. So now that's a new point. Yeah, but they took the money, but also to take the money from NBC and Amazon, it's like yeah we're just gonna take the money and then the thing that's scary this deal is for 11 years right so now people complain all they want to for the next 11 years they don't give a shit about the fans they're like if y 'all find the game's fine just make sure the check clears well I think Amazon's gonna do a really good job because I think they've done a good job with football and I think they I think their attitude toward how they're gonna cover it and how much attention like They're going to be fine.

1:09:48NBC is going to do it like they did NFL. I think they can all be fine. They just got to figure out how the regular fan are going to find it. Right. Because that's a frustrating thing with NFL where you're like, oh, wait a second. This game's on Black Friday on Amazon. You're floating around. Yeah. Okay. We know the ESPN got the games on Winston Friday. That's pretty stable, but okay. Yeah. Are the games on NBC or they on Peacock? And again, what two nights is Amazon? Are they, okay. Yeah. They took TNT's nights. Do they get TNT Tuesday? But I believe past two. Well, wait a minute. So TNT, Amazon, you get TNT Thursday, but you don't get there Tuesday.

1:10:39That goes to NBC. Yeah. Like, I know people think that's simple. But you should always try to make it simple for the fans. Well, and then for you, it's going to be like, where do you get you guys? Because that's the other piece people are going to care about. And then on top of it, you're going to be at ESPN. I'm sure there's going to be some back and forth with different people on the shows. You're not going to put up with it because you're old. You don't care. You're just going to go right back at everybody. I think, listen, it's going to be an honor and a privilege to work for ESPN because they're the greatest sports network ever.

1:11:13I just hope that we get to do what we do man me too see you're one of the few people who understand the question the points that I'm asking like wait we gotta go to local news or we gotta go to sports center or we gotta do both the game just ended how do I find you guys I have to flip channels they're in commercial am I on the right channel You are the few people who actually understand that. Like, okay, we got to go to local news. Like, we've never fucking had to go to local news before. You know, we've never had to go to SportsCenter. Yeah, but most of the people that produce these shows have never been on the shows.

1:11:57And when you've been on it, you understand the rhythm a bit differently. For whatever reason, Tim Kiley, your guy forever, he fundamentally understood how to make you guys succeed and that you guys needed time and you needed to breathe and that was what made it special. Most people, they don't see it that way. They don't understand it. Now I'm hoping that we get to breathe. Yeah, you're going to have like, trust me, I did them a couple of years. You're going to have like a two and a half minute halftime show on location at the finals. Like, you're like, wait, I just started my point. We're going to commercial again?

1:12:28What happened? You know, and I've been able to scream at TNT people. I've done it live on air. I'm not done with my point. Hold that damn commercial. And I want to make my point because it was an important point. But like I say, man, I don't know, but I'm concerned. I ain't never going to get on your show or any show online. Like, I am concerned about going forward. Well, I will say we've said goodbye to Inside the NBA, it feels like, for three straight years, and you guys are still on. You guys are like boxers that keep retiring. It's like when Ali retired over and over again in the 70s, and then he would fight again.

1:13:04You know, this was, you know, I really grew to hate the people I work for, to be honest with you, Bill. I could tell. No, because, Bill, there's a way you treat people. Yeah. We should not learn that we got fired or whatever from the internet. Ernie Johnson deserves better. Literally, this is a true story. we were playing golf in the playoffs i was playing with my boy alex and underdog and mike we're literally in between shots looking at the internet one article comes out tnt lost the package but i guess we lost the package another article come out we kept the package another article come out we lost the package we're literally playing golf and in between shots we're reading the internet and and then nothing happens nobody says anything and I'm literally sitting at a house on a Friday night I get a text from Van Pelt Bob Myers L.

1:14:23Duncan and Brian Windhorst welcomed me to the family. This was a Friday night. Nobody's told us anything. I get this text from four ESPN people welcomed me to the family. About two hours later, I get a call from TNT. Hey, this story broke. No shit. The show's going to ESPN. And I'm like, well, y 'all had to negotiate something before it broke. How about a heads up? Well, I also didn't understand how they negotiated without knowing if you were going to be on the show. That's my point. That's my point, Bill. And I'm sitting here like, oh, welcome to the family. It was a Friday night. And I was like, wait, welcome to what family?

1:15:19Then I said, I got the call from TNT like two hours later saying, hey, unfortunately, the story broke. Like, the story broke because y 'all got a damn deal. How about if y 'all signed a deal, call us four immediately and said, hey, guys, we got a deal to trade y 'all. I'll show the ESPN. And that's one of the reasons I developed animosity toward them. Like, yo, just tell us. Because if he had to call us and said, you know what, guys, this is a bad deal. They want us to go from 1.2 to 2.5 billion a year for 11 years. We can't afford that. That's all TNT had to say, Bill. And we would have said, we understand.

1:16:04That's not a great deal. But for us to hear from the internet and ESPN people that we lost the package, That's just unprofessional. And I get mad for Ernie because Ernie's the godfather. Ernie Johnson should never have to hear from other people that he lost his gig. Right. Well, he was also telling everybody, I don't want another job. This is where I want to end my career. I have these crazy ties with TNT and TBS and Atlanta, and I don't want to do anything else. Well, so I'm with him on that. and I'll tell you the truth Bill the only reason me and Ernie decided to stay was that people at TNT got to keep their jobs because so I met with Amazon and I met with NBC got a offer for more money from NBC I thought that's where you were going to go well I probably would have went there they had a bunch of bullshit they were talking about not gonna lie they offered me more money but when they sent the contract to me it had Kentucky Derby it had the US Open oh see I would elect you on both of those yeah yeah okay it had five appearances on Today I'm still intrigued five appearances on Jimmy Fallon the Olympics in 28 and 30.

1:17:45And I says, I guess y 'all didn't hear the part where I wanted to, because I will tell you what's funny. I liked all those things. I thought they made a good case. Bill, I'm not going to work more as I get older. I'm working less. Yeah, I would have liked to have seen anything. Because what was really ironic about the contract, when we first started talking, they says, I was going to work two days a week, which I hadn't worked two days a week in 25 years. Yeah. I said, you know what? Because I liked the guys. Because the boss at NBC hired me a tournament. I got a lot of love for Mark Lazarus. I said, you know what?

1:18:26I can work Monday and Tuesday. I'm good with that. So I'm like, okay, send me a contract. Let me take a look at it. But then by the time I got the contract, they're like well once football you're going to work three days a week that was my first red flag and then when they put Kentucky Derby US Open Olympics 28 and 30 I says hell no and so then the thing with Turner comes back and they're like guys we can keep the show going and and we get to keep everybody at Turner. And me and Ernie were like, okay, that's best scenario. Because one of the things that intrigued me and Ernie about NBC, they told us we could bring all the people with us.

1:19:26Yeah. Which was me and Ernie's only concern. Because when me and Ernie met with NBC, they're like, you guys can bring anybody you want to.

1:19:40and I was like, we can bring everybody behind the scene. They said, we'll film this show in Atlanta and you can bring anybody you want to. So that got me and Ernie's attention. Yeah. But then the thing with ESPN came up and we're like, well, we can stay the same and bring everybody with us. Let's take that deal. All right. Well, it sounds like you're still conflicted about it. I'm not conflicted because 200 people are going to keep their job. They're like my family members. Yeah. And that's all I really cared about. Because, Bill, I will tell you something. This was a very difficult couple of years for me mentally.

1:20:24Because, you know, I'm in the sports world my whole life. I ain't never been around a lot of real people. You know, all my NBA friends and TV friends, they got a lot of money. And I'm blessed. I'm not being an ungrateful person. I'm very blessed and thankful. But to be around my co-workers, TV people, who are going to lose their job, and to hear them talking about mortgage, taking their kids out of private school that they never had to worry about because we never under any circumstances thought that TNT was going to lose the NBA. But it was becoming increasingly clear. And man, we just fired a gazillion people from NBA TV.

1:21:13Yeah. Which was painful because I know all those guys and people behind the scenes. But for the last, especially last year, but really the last couple of years, and it was like, we might lose the NBA to be around people who I generally care about, to hear them talk about mortgage, to hear them talk about taking their kids out of private school and things like that, talking about downgrading where they live, man, it was really painful for me because, you know, I'm in the NBA. I ain't ever had one of my friends talk about mortgage and say I got to downgrade my kids schooling. Like, it was really painful for me as a person.

1:22:00Yeah. Well, I mean, I think about the late night shows, right? As the late night air is kind of ending, like Colbert shows. Yeah. 200 people work for that show. Kim was deciding how long he wants to go. 200 people are hinging on the decision. And they act like these people can just go get another job. I said, it doesn't work like that. I said man jobs jobs just don't grow especially in our community because if we fire those 200 people in Atlanta number one 200 people ain't going to have a job a couple of like they were talking about well if you go to Amazon you got to move to California that's a whole different animal and I'm not even sure what NBC decided to do their show at.

1:22:52So people act like, well, we can just go get another job. I'm like, it's not that simple. Even if Amazon want to hire you, how many people can just pick up and move to California? That's a different animal from an economic standpoint. Or the same thing, if NBC moves everything to New York, that's a whole nother animal. You in California could have been a reality show that could have potentially funded some of this too. You living here, I think would have been absolutely fascinating. I would have never lived there. I think that should have been part of the deal. It's like Amazon, but you have to live here.

1:23:27Well, they would have to buy me a rent. And you have to be an L.A. person. They would have to really give me a really good condo, a house or something. Bel Air, you could play Bel Air with Doc? No, no, somewhere right by the studio. Okay. A nice condo, three-bedroom. You can't have... I think they have those here. Yeah, I'm a big believer. You can never have more than two people visiting at the same time. Any more than two people. So you're crowded. Oh, that's interesting. No matter how big your house is? No, I'm not. I'm not being on guests. Yeah, that is that does get tough when you have kids and you.

1:24:00Well, you're you're staying. Aren't you staying at your kid's house right now? I am. My daughter, my two grandkids. Yes. All right. How old are the grandkids? Three and two. Little Henry, he's three. And little Charlie, she's two. So at some point you got to break out the YouTube clips of you going coast to coast? You know, right now my life revolves around Miss Rachel and Daniel Tiger. That's pretty much it right now. Those are the kid shows. Yeah. Miss Rachel and Daniel Tiger. That's pretty much it. And the rest of these are watching guard over the swimming pool. Right. That's it. That's an important job, though.

1:24:46It's a very important job because man, they were so cute in the beginning. Now they won't sit still. Like they were so cute in the beginning. They just sit on your lap and you just kiss them like a million times. Once they can run, it's over. Oh my God. Once they start walking and running, all hell breaking. I need a nap every time I see them. Right after that. I do. You need a nap. It is amazing how they go from, oh, you're so cute. But then once they learn to walk and run, they never sit still. It's crazy. So you have, to wrap up, you have Philadelphia beating who in the Super Bowl? You know, I'm hoping it's the Buffalo Bills.

1:25:28I would like to see either Josh Allen or – I like Josh Allen a lot as a person. The Ravens. The Ravens. you know when you're a great player like Lamar and Josh are you're on the shit list like me until you win the championship and it sucks because you know it's a team game but when you're a great player you get all the credit and you get all the blame so I would like to see Josh or Lamar win the Super Bowl I think Baltimore has a better team because their defense is better slightly better coaching staff Buffalo has a better offensive line yeah but they got that they revamped their defense last year yeah but my Eagles man they're loaded their defense got to grow up but Joshua Lamar so I had Buffalo over Green Bay before the Parsons trade.

1:26:42One day before that was my pick. Now you feel better about that, don't you? It almost seems too easy now. Now it's like, you know, that Parsons trade. The love kid got to play better. True. He was hurt last year. He was hurt. See, that's the thing that sucks about sports. He got hurt in the first game. And then had two more injuries. But once you get hurt, and people think when you come back, you're healthy. When you come back, you're not healthy. It takes a while to get back. And then he gets hurt again. But you know what? I give them credit. Hey, man, you know, we did it in Philadelphia the last couple years.

1:27:20Right. That's why Howie's the best general manager. That goes back to what we were talking about earlier. Man, very seldom do you have a chance to win. Like, you give Howie like, I need a wide receiver. He went and got AJ. And he like, we're not good enough. I need a running back. He goes out and gets Saquon. The Packers, like, man, when you have a chance to win, you got to go for it. Well, but that was the frustration with Denver for me, with what they did with Jokic the last two years, where, you know, they won the title, and they're like, okay, we won a title. It's like, you have the best guy of this decade.

1:28:03Every year that this guy's on your team, you have to spend the most money you possibly can because this is like, this is fucking generational. This is a unicorn. And they didn't do it last year. They cheaped out, I thought. But see, the problem they got now, they're trying to play catch up. And I always, and I tell people this, you never catch up. It might be too late because now they're not head and shoulders the best starting five. You know? Right. Yeah, but but they got rid of their two best players off the bench when they won the championship. Yeah, and some of that was financial. I understand that.

1:28:45Dude, man, guys will give their right arm and leg to win the championship. Your team going to be worth billions of freaking dollars. You're going to haggle over 10, 20, 30 million dollars? Think about that, Bill. Your team, every NBA team is worth at least$2 billion. Oh, my, four now? The ceiling's four. Portland got 4.25. So think about this. You had a chance to keep KCP and Bruce Brown. Probably cost you another 30, maybe 40 million. You're going to, team going to appreciate three,$400 million, especially if you win. You're probably going to make that money up if you go deep in the playoffs.

1:29:28Man, if you got a chance to win, you better go for it. and they really wasted the Joker the last couple years. But like I say, the problem they got now is they're not better than Oklahoma City. Right. And I'm not sure they're better than the Rockets. Yeah, if Thompson goes up a level, Houston could be in the two spot. It's a bummer because, I don't know, I was there for Bird of Magic. You were too in a different way. You played against them. Magic, think about this. Hold on. Perfect example. Go back and look. This is what, when those guys had birds, they bought in somebody every year. Right. What about the Lakers?

1:30:11They bought in somebody every year. You can never stand pat when you win. The Celtics, they bought in Walton one year. And then the Lakers bring in Michael Thompson the next year to respond. They bought in Bob McAdoo. Sam Perkins. Sam Perkins. Like, that's what made the Lakers and the Celtics, the two greatest NBA franchises ever. Hey, we're not trying to win one championship. We're not trying to win two championships. We're not trying to win three. That's what made the Celtics and the Lakers the best franchises in NBA history. I think OKC might be wired that way. The way they think of this long-term, short-term at the same time about how to build something that's seven, eight years and not two.

1:30:55Oh, they're going to be the favorite. Well, actually, your Celtics would have been the favorite the next five years if they didn't get hurt. Yeah, but at least in the East. Yes, in the East. But OKC, because they only got to pay those top three guys. And I'm going to tell you something. Hartenstein and Caruso, they'll give a hometown discount. Yeah. And then they got more young players and damn draft picks. Because I tell these guys, if I'm Harnstein and Caruso, I'm not taking an extra$5 million to suck. Well, that was the famous Julian Edelman story. When Jacksonville was trying to sign him, and he basically took$4 million less to stay with.

1:31:47He's like, I'm playing with Tom Brady. I'm going to factor that in. If I'm going to play with those top three guys in Oklahoma City, if I can get$5 million from a SEC team, or I can get three and a half, if I get three and a half, I'm going to make another million in endorsements because I'm on the best team in the NBA. And playoff money too, right? You get some of that too. I don't know Hartenstein and Caruso that well. They are really important to OKC. I guarantee you they'll take a hometown discount to stay because like I say, they're going to be favored easily even if they don't win the championship, they're going to be first or second the next five years easily Well that's the thing I never understood with Jokic, like if in the old days people were like, I get to play with Magic, I'm going to, let me get to the Lakers to play with that guy I don't understand why people didn't see Jokic like that.

1:32:48I can play with that guy. It's like the most fun guy in the league to play with. People felt that way about Duncan in the 2000s, right? I think once they started trading players, they weren't trying to bring guys on. They got the stink on them. All right. This was a good catch-up, Chuck. I'm glad you're well. It's always great to see you. I'm rooting for you at this next stop. We'll see how it goes. I'm going to bet on Barkley all the time. I got a lot of love and respect for it, brother. Thanks for having me on. All right. Great to see you. Thanks, man. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to the one and only Charles Barkley.

1:33:22Don't forget about new Rewatchables, our 400th movie that we've done. We did American Gangster. And then what else do I have? Oh, yeah. More podcasts coming this week. At least one more, probably two as we head toward week one of the NFL season. So stay tuned. We're going to keep the content coming. Don't forget about all the other Ringer football stuff we have in the works as well. And I'll see you a little later in the week.

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