Clippers Rock Bottom 9.0, Plus Charles Barkley on the Clips, 76ers, Lakers, ESPN, and Why He Loves Josh Allen

23:27Bill Simmons:can get NFL Sunday ticket for eight payments of just$30 a month. You heard me correctly. New users pay$240 or eight, eight non-cancellable payments of$30 a month. First charged at purchase. Availability varies with NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games and YouTube TV for local and national games. YouTube TV required. Terms, restrictions, and embargoes apply. Commercial use excluded. No refunds. Charles Barkley is here on a Thursday morning, which we had planned, I think for a couple of weeks, not realizing that the biggest punishment in the history of the NBA was about to come down against the sad sack Clippers, a team that when you ended up in Philadelphia, you ended up with the Clippers pick because they had traded their first five years earlier for jelly bean, Joe Bryant.

24:17Bill Simmons:And, uh, and you end up with that. You could have been a Clipper. I mean, I, you probably wouldn't even be talking to me right now. You might be living in like a one-bedroom apartment in Alabama somewhere. Yeah, you listen, the luck of the draw. You know, listen, it was really interesting. Like, remember when that thing came out like two weeks ago? And the clip was like, well, we found no wrongdoing, blah, blah, blah. Then like a day later, the NBA said, no, that's their investigation. We got a different one. Yeah. So I said, somebody asked me what I thought. I says, well, the NBA is trying to figure out what to do.

24:55The Clippers are not very good at cheating. They got busted. And they're trying to figure out a way to save the integrity of the people of the NBA. The Clippers are not very good at cheating. I mean, this was one of them. Shout out to Pop Ray for uncovering, like, wow, like really easy cheating to find. So, listen, I think they did the best they could under the circumstances, and the Clippers got what they deserved. But this was probably let Kawhi come to Canada, and that's the best case scenario.

25:38Bill Simmons:Yeah, when Kawhi, when that trade got greenlit for him to go to Toronto, that made me suspicious because Toronto was probably the team in 2019 that had the most agenda against the Clippers for how it played out. Yeah, you know, listen, number one, Kawhi should have never left Toronto in the beginning. He owned an entire country. He had a great general manager, Masajah Harry Ujiri. I mean, that was one of the great runs. that was one of the great runs in NBA history by one guy who took an entire organization to the top. And he should have never left Toronto in the first place. But this is just a stain on the NBA, plain and simple.

26:23This looks bad. There's no way to, there's nothing you can really see. The Clippers got busted for cheating. And then I guess they got busted twice for cheating. because I guess I was getting paid by two different companies. Four.

26:44Bill Simmons:And sponsors I'd never heard of. They're people that didn't normally have sponsorship agreements with anybody. And that's when, once you get to four, pretty tough to cover up this stuff. Yeah, like even if you did a commercial, you could at least cover it up a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, like you get paid for not doing anything. That's really bad cheating. They could at least put them in some kind of a fake commercial or something like that to try to cover their ass. Which honestly, if we're going to be honest, that's what they probably should have did. Like, they have to know, especially when I saw when people started getting arrested, you know everybody's going to flip to get less jail time.

27:25So that's when the aspiration thing went down, my man got jail time. You have to know that's when the cookies started crumbling. So if they were going to cheat like they did, All they really had to do, Bill, honestly, just do a fake commercial. Right. Yeah, they should have did something like that so they would have been able to cover their ass.

27:45Bill Simmons:Yeah, that was in the report that came out where it really seemed like they took umbrage at a couple of things the Clippers did, including like you have this endorsement deal with a company that's never done endorsements. And then there's no commercials or any sort of thing for the endorsement. And they have no other arrangements like this with any other athletes or celebrities. So what do you want us to do at this point? Yeah, they put Adam in a very bad situation. They put, and I got a lot of love. They put him in a bad situation and they got hammered, rightfully so, plain and simple. Chuck, would you take money from a company that wanted you as an endorsement, but you didn't have to actually endorse anything and nobody ever knew you were even involved with the company?

28:33Bill Simmons:I feel like you would do this. Bill, let me tell you something. There's never free money. Don't forget, there's never free money. Like, some of these stories you've been hearing through our lifetime, when something crooked happens, if you do something criminally for money, it always comes out in the long run. And one of my favorite things is, jail is full of people who didn't commit crimes. You're like, no, no. But to answer your question, obviously anybody would be tempted to take a lot of money, but there's always consequences when you do something illegal. There's always consequences, plain and simple.

29:20Bill Simmons:Did you feel like this stuff was happening when you played, or is this a relatively recent thing? Oh, it happened when I played. The Rockets needed me to take a pay cut to sign Scottie Pippen. And I said, you know what? Y 'all can get Scottie Pippen. I'll take a pay cut. Right. So they said, we'll make it up to you next year. I'm like, fine. And it wasn't a lot of money. I think the most money I ever made, I'm not saying it stupidly, the most money I made was like$5 million, which is money. I know that, you know, the internet food's going to go crazy. That's a lot of money. So I took a pay cut so we could sign Scott at Pippen.

30:05And then they say we're going to make it up to me the next year. And I was on the end. I had nothing left in the tank, but I had one more year left on my contract. So I showed up for training camp and signed my contract. And they're like, well, we decided you wasn't worth a shit, so we're not going to give you that money back. We're just going to give you your original money back. Oh, no. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. They're like, well, you can go somewhere else. And at that stage, I couldn't get more than that money with them. I'm like, you know what? Y 'all pissing me off.

30:40But I had to take that money. But remember, you go back. Remember when Joe Smith got busted, but the Timberwolves? But teams have always did under-the-table deals. Where they're like, hey, you take a pay cut here, we'll pick it up to you. I think the NBA is investigating a couple of those right now. If my memory serves me correctly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

31:03Bill Simmons:Gary Trent's one is weird. Yeah, but people have been doing this a long time. So, you know, for the Clipper fans out there, where you have your team just get destroyed by first the Kawhi trade and then you lose a half a decade of first-round picks, including you had a couple picks in 2029, now you have one. and it the good point about it they're used to losing so it won't be a it won't be a shock to the system that's true yeah they have 50 50 years of experience with feeling bad um but when this happened with Joe Smith who you just mentioned in the Timberwolves I thought it had a profound impact on Kevin Grant Kevin Garnett's career um just Minnesota basketball in general it took them I mean then they were hiring the wrong people too this is the team that famously took two point guards that weren't Steph Curry in the 2009 draft.

31:55Bill Simmons:They made a bunch of mistakes. But ultimately, I look back at that, and I remember writing about it at the time, like, holy shit, this Joe Smith thing might be ruining Kevin Garnett's prime. And they got to the conference finals once in 04, and that was really it. He was in the lottery for three straight years after that. And I wonder with the Clippers, is that going to happen? Well, the Clippers are not going to be running for the next five years anyway. Yeah. Listen, if you're in a Western Conference, You better get, you can get frequent mileage to Oklahoma City and to San Antonio. And if you bought, if you bought 10 tickets to San Antonio and 10 tickets to Oklahoma City for the next five years, you're going to get to use them.

32:39Everything in the West is going through OKC and San Antonio the next five years. Those are their two great organizations. They got great players. They're well coached. like the NBA championship going through San Antonio and OKC the next five years, not just the West, but yeah. So that's the only saving grace for the Clippers. They're not going to be irrelevant for the next five years, but most teams in the West are not going to be relevant for the next five years.

33:10Bill Simmons:I talked about this at the top of the podcast, but do you feel like there should be protections for fans with this stuff? Like, do you think the season ticket holders of the Clippers should be like, this whole thing happened. I didn't sign up for this. I'd like to be let out of my season tickets. Like, should fans have better protection? 100%. And one thing I've always said, I think there should be a rule that you cannot raise your ticket prices if you're below 500. I've always said that. I don't think, like some of these teams, they raise their ticket prices every year no matter what. I've all, I've steadfastly said this, there should be a rule in pro sports that you cannot raise ticket prices if your team is below 500.

33:55And I don't even think that's that much of a, like, an issue. Like, if your team is below 500, you should not be able to raise your ticket prices, plain and simple.

34:06Bill Simmons:Yeah, I wonder, like, even in the second half of a season when a team's clearly trying not to win, if those tickets should be discounted. We don't think about this stuff at all with the paying customers for whatever reason. That's a little bit different. Because if you ask a fan, are they trying to get to that damn lottery? That's a different animal. But now nobody at the lottery is in the same anymore, though. Like, if you're in the bottom three now, you have less ping pong balls. Yeah, but I think the NBA screwed that up. What they have, and I've said in front of me, every team in the lottery get one ping pong ball.

34:38That's it. There's no sure we were watching with ping pong balls for losing. It's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Like, okay, you're going to get one ping pong ball. That will force you to try to win down the stretch. It's like, well, we're going to be in the lottery. We're not going to get more balls. I've always thought the NBA screwed this thing up from the beginning. Every team in the lottery get one ping pong ball. I mean, I think you can count on one hand the amount of times a team with the worst record actually got the number one draft pick. Yeah. Yeah, they never get it. So why are you rewarding them to take games the last 30 games of the season?

35:18No, you know you're going to be in the lottery. You're going to get one ping pong ball and that's it. That'll be an easy, simple way to fix the lottery.

35:27Bill Simmons:Can you explain to the people listening who are a little bit younger, who don't remember the 80s and 90s, how incompetent the Clippers were when you were an NBA player, what it was like to play against them, just what it was like to have them in the league during that stretch? They're kind of like a lot of baseball teams now. The Clippers always had good players, but they wouldn't pay them. I tell people this all the time. The notion that every team is trying to win in sports is not true. It's not true. Some of these guys are just great businessmen. They're making money because they split in revenue.

36:08Their team is getting evaluated on$200 million or$300 million more every year. So they're running a business. But Donald Sterling was a great businessman. He was an awful person, but he was a great businessman. The Clippers, go back. Real, I've said this for years. It's impossible to be bad at sports. It's impossible. Think about this. If you're going to get a lottery pick every year, your team should get better automatically. when I'm talking to my friends some of these teams are not trying to win because think about this if you're a great lawyer you're going to go to the best law firm if you're a great lawyer you're going to go to the best hospital sports we're the only job in the world think about this we're the only job in the world when we tell you you suck but you know what we're going to do we're going to let you pick a new crop of people coming out.

37:05The best of the best. And you said it earlier about Minnesota. They picked two point guards in back-to-back years that weren't named Steph Curry. They just don't know what they're doing. I tell people all the time, it's impossible to be bad at sports. Unless you got bad people don't know what they're doing. Go back and look at every draft. Think about this. The San Antonio Spurs they moved up to get Kawhi. They drafted Tony Parker, Genovi, Hall of Famers, in the second round or late first round. They know what they're doing. People didn't pick Jalen Brunson. They picked him late. People just don't know what they're doing.

37:56Now they're using analytics. But the best way to evaluate basketball players, to get people who would know exactly what they're looking for. But I do. Like, if you're not good at your job, but a lot of these guys, general managers, they keep their job to, like, three head coaches. And if they get lucky every now and then, they keep their job. But, man, it's impossible to be bad at sports if you know what you're doing.

38:23Bill Simmons:Yeah, to that point, like, think about Oklahoma City, right, in the late 2010s, where Durant leaves, they have Westbrook, They make a big play for Paul George. They're kind of, they have a low ceiling. They're not going to make the finals. They know it. And then Presti, within a year, completely rebuilds the team, makes the Paul George trade, nails a couple picks, and they go from like, we suck to now we're a title contender in two years because they played the system correctly. But a lot of teams don't. Number one, nobody thought Shea was going to be this great. But he picked Jalen Williams. He picked Chad Hungrym.

38:58and what the thing Sam does better than anybody in the league, he got guys on the bench that are incredible. Right. Isaiah Joe, I know they just traded him. They got the Jalen Williams kid. Like, he can, because when you're dropping as low as they are, you have to know what you're doing. It's actually, he's from the San Antonio model, and he's doing like the same stuff with Ginobili and Parker. The guys that he's getting late in the first round, second round, are really, really good players. That goes back to what we were talking about. If you know what you're doing, because there's guys who pick guys in the lottery who can't play dead.

39:43But if you know what you're doing, you've got to have a great scouting staff. You've got to have a great system in place.

39:50Bill Simmons:So you look at some of the other teams and what they did this year, right? Right. Philadelphia. Sometimes, sometimes you get lucky, right? Philadelphia, Maxie fell to 21. They end up, they get him. That's a great pick. They, they tank for one year. They get Vijay Edgecombe. Great pick. Jalen Brown, the Celtics want to move off him. They're in the right place, right time with that. They get him. And then all of a sudden LeBron's like, hey, that's looking pretty good over there. I'll jump in too. And now all of a sudden they have the number two odds in the East. Yeah, you know what's interesting about that, Bill?

40:26I've been asked, you know, I live in Philadelphia during the summer because they've got the best golf courses in the world, so I play golf every day. So I've been in Philly for the last two months. I have been asked 9 ,755 times why the Cessus traded Jalen Brown in Philly. And 9 ,752 times I said I have zero idea why. And that was, to me, one of the craziest trades. I've seen in my 40 years in the NBA. I can't explain it. It doesn't make, like, okay, the Celtics don't want Jalen Brown. I understand it. Clearly, they did not want Jalen Brown. There is no way in the hell you trade him that close to, number one, a team you got to play five times in the regular season and probably going to have to get through in the playoffs because the Sixers were dead.

41:22The Sixers were dead. They were irrelevant. They had an agent Paul George and an agent Joel Embiid for the next two years with Paul, three or four years with Embiid. They were dead in the water, irrelevant. And now all of a sudden, they get Jalen. They are back in contention. And then you throw the cherry on top with LeBron. but there's nothing anybody can say to me that I can go on TV or on your podcast or anywhere in the world and say that trade may sense for the Celtics. That's just crazy. Yeah.

41:59Bill Simmons:I've obviously been sitting with it all summer. And I think about two weeks ago, talk myself into at least maybe why I could work. But fundamentally, I just thought Jalen was so good last year. and I get that they didn't want to pay two guys that amount of money. Like both of them had top 10 contracts in the league for value. And to me, like the more I stare... Paul George makes similar money to Jalen for the next two years. They didn't have to pay Jalen right now. I think what they were thinking was Paul George and Jalen, they're making around the same money this year. Next year, Paul George isn't expiring, would allow them to circle back.

42:41But it was interesting some of the rhetoric they had about like Stevens, who, you know, is always very careful what he says.

42:49Bill Simmons:And he just seemed to think like the team ran its course with those two guys and that it wasn't sustainable anymore to contend. And that a year from now, they're going to be in the same decision they were in this year. And they had to make a move. They had to change the team. They had to move Jalen out, use all these people in his spot. and that was either going to be them going sideways or maybe even going up. I watched the whole season last year. I thought Jalen was incredible. And that's the part I can't wrap my head around, trading a guy off an awesome season. I just haven't seen that before.

43:21Yeah, Jalen was great last year. And let's be honest, when Jason gets a chance to have an entire off-season summer, he's going to come back to being an MVP caliber player. They would have been the favorites, in my opinion, in the East. I think that Knicks thing was one of the greatest runs, but I think they're going to regress a little bit. Yeah. But in my opinion, if Jalen had a state with the Celtics, they would have been a favorite in the East going forward next year. And even if you wanted to get a Knicks to respect, they would have been the second team in the East. Right. So, listen, I've tried to wrap my head around it, to be honest with you, Bill.

44:03But like I say, I'm not even opposed to them trading Jalen, but you don't trade him to Philadelphia. You don't trade him. You don't say, even the owner of the Sixers told me, he says, you're a great player. I got to trade you. I'm not trading you anywhere in the Eastern Conference. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you trade him out West, but to trade him to Philly, to a division rival, that was just crazy. Now, like I say, because LeBron, there's no chance LeBron comes to Philly. There's zero chance LeBron comes to Philly if Jalen's not there.

44:40Bill Simmons:Here's the thing with that. It didn't seem like there was a market for Jalen, which is even more surprising, but goes back to what we talked about in the beginning about a lot of these teams are just stupid. If Jalen's, if they're basically like, hey, we're shopping Jalen Brown. We've seen all the teams in the NBA. I find it hard to believe there wasn't a team or two that would have been like, yeah, well, we'll make a run on him. We'll go for him. But you were in this situation. When I think about like chemistry and stuff, which was obviously a reason they wanted to split up Tatum and Brown, even though they got along, there was like no bad blood or anything.

45:15Bill Simmons:But I think that there was a little bit of a whose team is this thing that they just wanted to get ahead of. And they didn't think it was solvable, especially how good Jalen was last year as the guy. You went through this in Houston when you guys got Pippen. Now, you guys were older. Yeah. But you had Pippen and Hakeem and you, and you guys were all three of the top 35 players of all time. And it didn't work. So why didn't it work? Was it beyond you being old? Why didn't it work? Just because we were old. We made it to the conference finals, I think my first year in Houston. Yeah, but not with Pippen.

45:50Yeah, but that's the only good year that we had. We were broken down, and Scott didn't want to be there. He took the money, but he didn't want to be there. We bolted to Portland right away after that. But we were just old half-bands, to be honest with you, Bill. We had one good year. I mean, remember Stockton hit the shot?

46:10Bill Simmons:Matt Maloney, that year. Yeah, my first year in Houston, we had a good year. And I was cooked. I had a good second year, but after that, I was cooked. But Akeem was cooked, and Clyde was cooked. And that's honestly why Scottie wanted out of there. but remember we traded Akeem the next year but we were just all cooked to be honest people don't even get it Akeem finished in Toronto, people forget that but we were all cooked to be honest with you yeah there's some tough jerseys from the 90s because we have Ewing was in Seattle and Orlando Akeem was in Toronto Tony Parker ended up playing for Charlotte in the 2010s you know It always ends badly.

46:59It always ends badly. You know, father time is always going to win. I think it's a lot easier today. Let me get that out of the way. Because there's no physicality. So you can play another couple years. But all the physicality has gone out the game. But for most great players, it always ends badly. I mean, you could say Michael for the Wizards ended badly, if you want to be honest. He wasn't Michael Jordan playing for the Wizards.

47:28Bill Simmons:Didn't make the playoffs either. Yeah, but it's always going to end badly if you keep screwing around with father time. All right, so we've been saying this about LeBron for the last couple of years, and, you know, I just, does he defy it? Because Brady defied it. Brady played to his 45. He won a Super Bowl. He was an MVP. And this was in his, like, early 40s. and it kept going and going. Can LeBron be the only guy who defies that? We have to be honest about LeBron. If he gets swept in the playoff the last couple years, so just because you're putting up good numbers don't mean you're being effective.

48:06And I'm not taking a shot at LeBron. It's just facts. You know, people say he's defying the odds. I'm like, well, if my memory serves me correctly, he's gotten swept in the playoff the last couple years. I thought, yeah, so I said, Is he putting up good numbers? Yes, he's putting up good numbers. That does not mean you're defined. Because to me, it's a lot easier to get numbers now. It's a lot easier to get numbers. But I'm saying LeBron's playing well. Don't get me wrong. But to say he's beating for all the time, I'm like, they got swept a lot. If we're going to be honest. You know, we got a lot of step for wives out there when it comes to LeBron.

48:44You either agree with LeBron or you just hating on LeBron. I love the way Jalen Rose gives him heat. He said, the media's turned into LeBron fanboys. And I said, no, they're Stefford-wise. They just go along with whatever they say. I said, LeBron's playing pretty good. I'll agree with that. But they've gotten swept the last two years in the playoffs. So don't tell me how great he's playing. Because if you get swept, you're not playing that good.

49:12Bill Simmons:Yeah, I guess he's playing great for a guy in his 40s. But the issue is, and I think this has been the issue for them the last couple years, and they clearly knew it because they didn't really want him to come back. You basically have two spots. Would you say that again? They didn't want him to come back. I've been saying that all summer. Bill, and I'm so glad you said that because I'm dealing with these fools in the media. Like, LeBron left the Lakers. I said, the Lakers didn't want LeBron. They were like, it's time for us to move on. Like, I love the way he released that statement saying, I've decided to move on.

49:50Like, dude, the Lakers, they handled it. They're like, no, it's time for you to move on. And I'm glad you said it like that because I tell people, you think if the Lakers really won LeBron, he would have left there? Come on, man, stop it. These media guys are so like, LeBron made the decision to leave the Lakers. Like, no, the Lakers made the decision for LeBron.

50:11Bill Simmons:And they made the decision in January or February and then Luka got hurt. Yes. LeBron had that resurgence. But the issue with LeBron... They needed to do it. It was time for him. And I was disappointed he went to Philly. I'll be honest with you. I wanted him... I thought it would have been a great ending for him to go back to Cleveland. But he has no affiliation with the 76ers. Yeah. I thought it would have been a perfect ending. And let's be honest with you. I think, honestly, if LeBron went to the Cavaliers, They would have been my preseason pick. But they got a really, really good team. They just need some leadership.

50:50If LeBron had a win to the Cleveland Cavaliers, they would have been my pick. And let me tell you something. If he were able to go out winning a championship in Cleveland, I can say I'm always going to think Michael's greatest player. But LeBron's career would have been the greatest career if he had went back to Cleveland. Because if he wins the championship in Philly, it would be cool. Because Philly hadn't won in a long time. But if he had went back to Cleveland at 42 years old, or 43 if he's going to play two years, and walked out winning a championship, it would have been the greatest career.

51:28It would have been Brady-esque. Because Brady is at the top of the food chain on careers. But if LeBron at his age would have made him back to hometown and win, it would have been the greatest career in sports history.

51:41Bill Simmons:Yeah, I don't think he felt like he could win with that team in the same way, is my interpretation. Because it seemed like at the beginning of free agency, he was headed to Cleveland. I would have bet anything on it. And he was the only team he was actually meeting with in person in real ways. But something scared him off on the Cleveland thing. And maybe he thought they could get rid of James Howard, and I don't know. Well, listen, you know what? This is what I think. I don't have no proof. I'm just scared out of my ass. I think once he found out, they had probably did an under-the-table deal with James for three more years.

52:13I think that's probably what scared him away. Because I do believe if he went back to Cleveland, they would have been the favorite. No question. I mean, because they got to the Conference Finals last year, and you had LeBron with his leadership to go with those guys. They would have been the favorite. But there's no doubt in my mind. because, you know, first of all, I'm surprised they gave James three years. But it makes sense like, okay, they had promised him that deal.

52:43Bill Simmons:One thing about LeBron just from the last couple of years, I think what's changed, even though the numbers were relatively the same, right? I think the issue is you basically have two spots for expensive guys on an NBA team, right? The way the salary cap is now that the second apron. So if you're going to really pay two guys, is you better make sure you can win a few playoff rounds in a row with them. And LeBron, at his age, clearly, I don't think he could be one of the two guys anymore because of the grind of the season, how you have to play on both ends. And if they wanted to pay Reeves, you can't pay Luka, Reeves, and LeBron and expect to win more than one playoff round.

53:19Bill Simmons:So I think they were out in February on it. Oh, I agree with that. But I still think if he had to went to Cleveland with them twin towers and Donovan Meeble, and LeBron's going to have the ball more than James Harden if he had only there. I thought that would have been the favorites in the East in my opinion. Like I say, with the team they had, they got to the conference finals. And one of the worst coaching jobs and one of the worst NBA games I've ever seen. The team blew a 20-point lead like that. They were close. so if LeBron had went there in my opinion they would have been the favorites in the East here's the thing if you're paying LeBron 4 million a year that's a great deal I don't care what team he's on that's amazing value for somebody like I why do you think San Antonio didn't want him because they end up going Tobias Harris instead and doing some other things but San Antonio was so close I felt like he would have a huge impact for them that team first of all those two guards I don't want to see them for the next 10 years if I'm a guard in the NBA.

54:31Yeah. Papa and Castle. Castle. If I'm a guard in the NBA, I do not want to see them boys the next 10 years. They're going to be the best. They're going to be the new Steph and Clay. I really think they're like, no, you know what? Let's just do it organically. We got to win me. We got to, we got to. Yeah, and I think, because they won't probably be the drug, grow into the leadership role on his own. Because, like I say, they're going to be the team to beat with OKC for the next 10 years in the NBA. I mean, you're going to go through OKC and San Antonio the next 10 years. I'll take a bet right now.

55:11If you say, give me OKC and the Spurs, they're going to win five championships in the next 10 years. I'll take that bet. Five in the next 10. I'll take that bet. Yes.

55:25Bill Simmons:Here's the thing. Normally, I would say, you're right, Chuck. I think that's the right instinct. We've had eight champions in eight years. And we've had a bunch of teams already that people are like, oh, like Denver after 2023. Watch out for these guys. This could be the next dynasty. Celtics in 2024. Uh-oh, here we go. Hey, let me tell you something. If you go back and look at those teams, if the Nuggets haven't traded everybody, they probably would have repeated. Let's try to see. The Spurs won seven games without OKC having their second best player. OKC probably would have won that series if they had had Jalen.

56:10And they probably would have beat the Knicks. But so, and listen, I'll go back to this. If the Celtics have never, you know what the Celtics superpower was for Zingas? Yeah. If they could have stayed them healthy and Brown and kept Porzingis healthy, Celtics would have won another two champions. There's always been something flaky that happened, but we would have had some teams that would have repeated. When the Celtics had Porzingis, I'm like, nobody can beat that team right there. Porzingis gave them a superpower. Because you had Tatum and Brown and Porzingis, I'm like, nobody can beat that team.

56:48I said that like in January. and I didn't know Jalen Williams was going to get hurt. I said, OKC's going to win the championship and he got hurt, never got healthy whatsoever. Listen, OKC and the Spurs are going to be battling the West, but I'll take five out of ten. I'll take that bet if they put it out there somewhere.

57:04Bill Simmons:Yeah, but you just made the case why that's not going to happen. There's so many dumb things that can happen with these teams. You can have injuries. You can make one dumb trade. You can't pay everyone at the same time. And I just feel like we've seen, like the Warriors, who they won. Four. Yeah, but three in five years, basically, right? When Durant came. But they won one before Durant. Then they won two after, and they lost in 19. And we would have said when he showed up there, oh, my God, they're going to win eight of the next 10. Then they won two more, and then they won the extra one in 22.

57:37But they probably would have won another one if LeBron— Remember, they got the package from the NBA when they suspended Draymond. They probably would have won another one. remember? Yeah, I remember. Let's be honest. Yeah, I think this OKC team is bigger and deeper, and I think this Spurs team is bigger and deeper. So they're going to have some— Listen, this Webby kid, he's got a chance. He can do things that most people can't do. OKC is the deepest team in the league. They're the deepest team in the league. they almost made to the finals without their second best player being out. I think he only played in probably 30 games all year.

58:22Bill Simmons:All right, so if I'm the rest of the league, and I agree that on paper, five of the next 10 could go through San Antonio, because I'm thinking, well, who knows with injuries and money, especially Wemby's 7 '6", we're always scared of him and his health, all this stuff. What happens with Chet Holmgren the next couple years? Was that an aberration in the playoffs last year? or maybe he's not as good as we thought he did. I'm talking myself in a certain realities because honestly, the Knicks thing, the Knicks and the run they had and the fact that they basically just came together for nine weeks and won a title, it makes me wonder, do we have so much talent in the league now?

58:59Bill Simmons:Could that keep happening? The Knicks are probably the greatest run in NBA history for a good solid team. I don't think they're a great team, but Bronson's turned into one of the great all-time performers, which is interesting because I don't think even when the Knicks signed him, they thought he was going to be this great. Yeah. I mean, I don't think, and I saw, I remember there was a bunch of clips, and he kept receipts. where he showed what people bashed him when he went through the day. I mean, this is not a needle mover, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I love when he played that video. But, man, it's been one of the great surprises.

59:39He is turning one of the great players in our league. But they went on one of the great runs, one of the great runs in NBA history. But, like I said, I'll take my chance with OKC and the Spurs. When they do the futures, I'm going to bet on OKC. I'm going to put some money on OKC and the Spurs for the next five years for sure.

1:00:02Bill Simmons:Okay. So you're over under next five years, three and a half titles for OKC and the Spurs, sounds like. Oh, yeah, for sure. Okay. How much fun are you going to make fun of the Lakers this year? The snow time Lakers. All the white guys. Just the weird team they built in general. This feels like it's going to be comedic fodder for you on the show. No, I really want to see the Lakers do well. First of all, I'm a big Luka fan, a big Austin Reed fan. I think they're going to be better than people realize. Really? Yeah, dude. Luka and Kyrie took the Mavs to the finals. Come on, man. This team is probably better.

1:00:42This probably team is just as good as that team. They're going to be fine, I think. Are they going to win the championship? I don't think they're going to win the championship. but the league is better when the Celtics, the Knicks and the Lakers are a good team. Yeah. See, listen, with all the crap that was going on in the NBA with this low management bullshit, the quiet thing and all the stuff going on, I think the NBA got the luckiest league in sports history with the Knicks winning the championship. I thought, I've been in the NBA for 40 years. this was the best feel-good story that I've...

1:01:25I'm trying to think when we've had a champion that was such a feel-good story.

1:01:30Bill Simmons:Dallas. The only one is Dallas and Dirk, but that was really one player versus a whole city and all the history. It's like an all-time great getting that monkey off his back. He can't win a championship. I agree with you. Dirk is the only other in the conversation where it was something that everybody felt good about basketball. Well, I remember with Dirk, the first time, I think one of the first times we ever did a podcast when I was at ESPN, you called it the shit list. When a guy, no matter how great he is, if he doesn't end the title, you're just on the shit list. And Dirk pulled himself off the shit list, right?

1:02:08Yeah, he did. Dirk pulled himself off the Carl Malone, John Stockton, Charles Barkley, Pratt, Ewing shit list, Elgin Baylor, one of the all-time greats.

1:02:15Bill Simmons:Elgin Baylor. Yeah, I was happy for Dirk because there's nothing, you know, you don't go crazy over it. But when you hear guys talking about it, these are all the time great players who have won the championship. It comes up all the time. So it drives you crazy. Like all of a sudden, we're like golf and tennis, an individual sport instead of a team sport. I'm not sure how that actually happened, but it happens. So, but other than, I 100 % agree to you, other than Dirk winning the championship, the next win in the championship was probably the second best feel-good story we've had in a long time.

1:02:52Bill Simmons:Do you think it was repeatable? Or are they a one-and-done? I think they're one-and-done. I think that was just a perfect storm, to be honest with you. I do. I just think it was a perfect storm. because, you know, one thing that's quite a kept, the Eastern Conference has become better than the Western Conference. I mean, you take away the Brooklyn Nets, there's not a bad team in the Eastern Conference. That's one of the things that concerns me about Philadelphia. You know, Joel Embiid has never played a full season. LeBron hasn't played a full season in probably six years. How are they going to be able to hold up?

1:03:31Because, like I say, other than Brooklyn, every team in the East, even though Washington, we're just going to have a good team. I mean, come on, man. When's the last time we've been able to say that?

1:03:41Bill Simmons:10 years. So every time the Sixers play the Celtics, it's going to be a dogfight. And so if they don't have those guys and they're the number eight seed and they have to win three series on the road, that's hard to do. Well, you also have the miles from the previous years, right? They made the conference finals two years ago. They went all the way last year. We saw that with the Warriors where they had that five-year run. But by the time they got into year five, they're running on fumes. Durant gets hurt. Klay Thompson gets hurt. You know, the 100 playoff games, 95 playoff games a year kind of adds up.

1:04:17Bill Simmons:Giannis and Bam on Miami. Yeah, they're going to have a good team. Do I think they're going to win a championship? No, but they got a lot of spots to fill. But they're going to be a good team. You can meet Bam and Giannis. That goes back to my original point. You're not – see, that's why Embiid and LeBron both got to stay healthy because every game, like I say, the only team – and I shouldn't say it because I'm going by last year. The only team I can see that stinks in the Eastern Conference is Brooklyn Nets. Atlanta's got a good team now. Orlando's going to have a good team. Charlotte. Charlotte's got a good team.

1:04:54Bill Simmons:Indiana's back. Indiana's going to be a really – Indiana's going to be one of my sleepers, But also, out west. Me too. Let me tell you something. You know a team that's going to surprise people this year? The Utah Jazz. Yep. Danny is quietly building a really, really good team. They're going to surprise people. People say, who's your sleeper this year? I said, man, Indiana's going to be really good. I said, because the Zubats trade, they kind of got screwed in the lottery because they could have got another good player. But having Zubats back, Zubats is a hell of a player in Halliburton. when I said, man, watch out for the Utah Jazz.

1:05:33They probably get... Now, they got to figure out what to do. Are they going to keep... What's the... Markkinen. Because they could jumpstart their future quickly with him. They could be a playoff team with him, but if they traded him, they could get a King's ransom because he's a hell of a player.

1:05:54Bill Simmons:Yeah. I'm with you on Utah because the X factor for them is if Peterson is good right away, they're going to be really dangerous because that's exactly what they needed, like a guard who could create offense at the end of games along with the other guard they already had. But yeah, I'm watching them too. It's time for a special part of today's episode brought to you by my buddy, NFL Sunday Ticket. We've all been there. You're watching one game, you're constantly refreshing your phone to see how your fantasy matchup is doing. We just did our fantasy draft here at the ringer, so I get it. Luckily, with NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV, you get every game, every Sunday, all in one place.

1:06:32Bill Simmons:So, for instance, Trevor Lawrence is my quarterback in the Jaguars. I have four TVs going. Probably going to put him on to see how he does. Colston Loveland on the Bears. I thought he was the best tight end value. I think he's a top two or three tight end. Very happy to take him. Get to watch him on the Bears. David Montgomery on the Texans. I get to watch him in their defense. I think he's going to score a lot of touchdowns. Sam Laporta, who I took as my flex, even though he was also a tight end. My theory was I want two of the best five tight ends. He could be my flex. Maybe I can trade him down the road to somebody who's a little desperate.

1:07:09And then last but not least, Ashton Gentry,

1:07:13Bill Simmons:who was just a value pick because he's a little hurt, but I got his backup, Mike Washington. So I did a little handcuff action. Now in the late games, I have something at stake with the Raiders. This is where multi-view comes in. Instead of flipping channels, use the multi-view builder. Pick the exact NFL games you want. And it's a total game changer for your fantasy team, for whatever you're getting out of that football Sunday. New users can get NFL Sunday ticket for eight payments for just$30 a month. Get every game every Sunday all in one place. With NFL Sunday ticket and YouTube TV, New users pay$240 or eight non-cancelable payments of 30 a month.

1:07:51Bill Simmons:First charge to purchase. Availability varies. Win NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games. And YouTube TV for local and national games. That exists too. YouTube TV required. Terms of restrictions and embargoes apply. Commercial use excluded. No refunds. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web. like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense?

1:08:26Bill Simmons:There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18+. I didn't like what you said, Odin pauses, about the future. This is the love story of real hinge couple Odin and Edward, written and read by me, Curtis Garner. Listen to the free audiobook now.

1:08:51Bill Simmons:Tell me how your ESPN experience was. Because it seemed rocky during the regular season. Then the playoffs, you seemed like you guys again. Yeah, it was great. The only thing I didn't like, we never worked. I thought it was disrespectful to the fans. Because... Yeah. It's a matter of fact. We were very sad on my own. it's just it's crazy how they never they were great to be honest with you they didn't do anything when you're in a relationship you wanted to work for both people and I called Tim all the time and I said yo man if we're doing something you don't like tell us he said dude we love what y 'all doing and I said the only thing that I had a problem with and people complained I said dude the fans don't know when we're on we only work we open the season Bill in October.

1:09:43We worked one day in November and we worked Christmas Day. I said, we worked three times three months. I says, the fans can't find the games as it is because we're on three different networks. They don't know what night different things are on. And I thought that was disrespectful to the fans. I know these TV networks, I know they pay a lot of money, but we should do everything we can to make the games accessible to the fans. And I didn't think we did that last year. Showing us once a month to start the season, I didn't like that at all. Because the fans were like, well, damn, when are they going to be on again?

1:10:23We're like, we're on once a month. The rest of the time, they were on NBC and Amazon. Like, no, let's help the fans find the games. That's what we should do.

1:10:35Bill Simmons:So, I feel like there's some end-arounds. Like, they could put you on ESPN Plus or ESPN 2 and just try to keep you in the habit of being on once a week seemed to be the easy fix. First of all, that shit's not going to happen, okay? That's not going to happen, so stop it. You just told me you wanted to work more. Yeah, but I'm not going to do that every show shit. That was the one thing I laid down. I'm going to be a good team player, but I'm not going on every show. number one I think it's really important for me to limit the amount of times I'm on television like when I'm on I want to be on you misunderstood me I'm saying do more inside the NBA not other shows I'm not on TV at all right now I don't want to be I don't do shows right now because when the season starts I want to do our show I'll do a couple EXPEN things but the last thing you want to be is on every show.

1:11:38I don't want people to get sick of seeing my face. I'm very strategic. I've done the same thing. I'm doing your podcast. I haven't been on TV since the season ended. I went on TV one day when LeBron announced this thing. They had me all over the damn creation. I cursed LeBron ass out because I was on my way to the golf course and they called me to turn around. I was on my way to the golf course. They called me and said, LeBron's going to make a decision. what made it even funny and weird bill i i was on my way to the golf course in philly because i live in philly during the summer and i went back and they didn't know where he was going so i had to go show and talk about it then he announced it was on philly and i spent the next five hours on tv in philly talking about lebron coming to philly i was so damn pissed i told LeBron when I say him, I'm going to kick him in his ass because he's ruined the wrong thing.

1:12:32But I really do a conscious effort. I told ESPN, I'll do Greeny every now and then because I got much respect for Greeny. I'll do Stephen A every now and then. But the one thing I'm very conscious of, I don't want to be on TV all the time because I don't want people because like, and listen, and I don't want to call out guys. You know guys who love seeing themselves on television. I don't want to call anybody out. Yeah, I have an idea who you're talking about. Yo, man, I'm sick of you on TV. You don't have to go on every show. You don't have to have an opinion on everything. So to get back to your original point, I'll do Greeny every now and then because I like him.

1:13:15I'll do Stephen A every now and then. But no, I'm not going on every show. That shit's not going to happen. I can promise you that.

1:13:24Bill Simmons:Well, at least you're not doing the thing this year where you're claiming you're going to retire. I think you retired more than Muhammad Ali. I think Muhammad Ali had seven retirements and you had nine. You know, Bill, let me, let me, I'm going to say this for the last time and I need you to listen to me like my girl Judith said. Judith said. I need you to hear me. You're not listening to me. I need you to hear me. You're listening, but you're not hearing me. So I told TNT I was going to retire at 60. And they're like, oh, he's full of shit. he's not going to retire. So we come up. I'm sitting, I said, Hey guys, this is my last year.

1:14:02They're like, what do you mean? I said, I told y 'all six years ago, I was going to retire at 60. They're like, you were serious. I said, yeah, I was serious. Then they said to me, do us a favor, stay two more years till we get the new deal. I talked it over with my friend. I said, okay, I'll tell you what. I'll stay to 62, which was last year. And they said, I said, I'll stay the next year. Little did I know these fucking idiots was going to lose to NBA. And I said, so I had made up my mind I was going to retire after last year. So I said, okay, I'm good. Like I say, I'm going to pass it to Jamal Crawford or Jalen Rose.

1:14:51I'm good. So they're like, okay. So then they're like, well, we need you to sign. I said, I told y 'all I was retiring next year. They said, we can't let people think you're retiring because we're negotiating a new TV deal. I said, that has nothing to do with me. I'm retired. They're like, can we tell people you're going to stay? I says, okay, tell people I'm going to stay, but I'm not staying. but I didn't know they were going to lose the deal. So I'm retired. This is a true story. I meet with NBC. I meet with Amazon. NBC offers me a deal. I'm like, I appreciate it, but no thank you. Amazon never offered me a deal, but I said I met with them.

1:15:42I said, no thank you. So I think I'm retired. I get a call from Ernie, who's the person I trust and respect the most. He says, Chuck, they got this deal on the table, but ESPN is going to take our show. Would you consider keep working? I said, well, Ernie, not really. He said, but everybody can keep their job. Not me, everybody behind the scenes. And you know, Bill, I really love the people. I've been with him for 26, 27 years. I was like, Ernie, how long do you want to stay? He says, let's keep their job for two more years. And so I said, Ernie, I'll stay for two more years. But he says, Chuck, I'm planning on retiring in two years.

1:16:38Me and Ernie are a package deal. him. So to answer your question, Ernie said to me, Chuck, would you please stay for two more years? I said, you know what, Ernie? I love you, man. You're the best. I said, I'll stay for two more years. So right now, unless Ernie changes his mind, next year is my last year for 100%, Bill. But I always have to explain to people these retirement conversations because I'll explain why I was going to retire. But so right now, Ernie told me this year and next year was his last few years. But the only reason I stayed is so everybody could keep their job behind the scenes.

1:17:21We're talking to 200 people. But I'm hoping this show keeps going on ESPN. But if Ernie retires after next year, I'm done. Because we're a package deal. I got so much love and respect for that guy. if he says he's done I'm gone because let's be realistic I could have went to NBC and made more money if I was concerned about money NBC offered me more money than I was making it but I was like it ain't about the money I say I'm done but man I really wanted to keep these people like I said I've been with these people 26 or 27 years I get to know them and all their families and, but like I said, I can't just keep working for forever.

1:18:10Dude, I'd be six or three freaking old. I'm not, listen, I want to die on the golf course, Bill. I don't want to die on TNT, on ESPN.

1:18:19Bill Simmons:Definitely not. I don't, hey, I don't want to hear and drop dead on the I want to drop dead on the 13th hole. It's funny I went to see you for the first time we met was 2002, I think. I went to do a piece about Inside the NBA when I was writing freestpin.com. And one of my takeaways was like, oh, this is why the show works. These guys love each other. And it's so funny. You still have that same relationship with Ernie 25 years later, basically, where now you feel like it's you and him to the end. Yeah, because number one, remember I told you, you're trying to remember. I said, man, I'm a big fan of yours.

1:19:02I read your stuff, blah, blah, blah. You're like, what? I said, I'm a big fan of yours. I remember.

1:19:05Bill Simmons:Are you kidding? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, Ernie, man, he is the glue that holds all this stuff together. Yeah. He works his behind. And he's been through so much stuff in his life. You know, his son had a couple years ago. That was traumatic for us. You know, he battled cancer. You know, when you work with somebody, I mean, I can't even believe. You know what's really funny? Ernest gives me shit all the time. Because when I took the job, he pulled me aside. He said, be honest with me. How long are you going to be here? I said, Ernie, I'm going to be here for five years, and I'm probably going to take an NBA job.

1:19:48And like once a month, he says, hey, how's that year five thing working out for you? Because I'm not going to lie. I originally thought I said, I'm going to do TV for three or four or five years max, and then I'm going to take an NBA job. and now 26, 27 years later, it's amazing.

1:20:09Bill Simmons:I would have loved to have had you as a GM in the mid-2000s when I was writing my column. That was like the atrocious GM apex. All those teams, the Knicks and the Timberwolves, I don't know if you would have fleeced them or you would have gotten infected by them, but something interesting would happen. You know, I've had three chances to be a GM, but they wouldn't give me total control. I said, no, I'm not leaving my job to take a job and I'm going to get fired. I said, I saw this happen with Michael Jordan with the Wizards. They blame him for everything. I said, I have no problem with y 'all blaming me for anything, but I'm going to have complete authority on all the draft picks and trades.

1:20:53They're like, well, you have no experience. I said, who do you think I'm going to hire? My brother? I can always tell who's going to be a good NBA coach or a coach in general, Bill, by the assistants they hire. Because a lot of these coaches, one thing I admire about Nick Saban, he hired every ex-head coach because he knew they were going to be a good assistant and they were going to do things the right way if they wanted to be a head coach again. A lot of these coaches hired their friends and their buddies. and they like somebody who they ain't worried about taking their job. I said, I don't want somebody who want to be an assistant their whole life.

1:21:34I'm going to surround myself with successful people. Like Nick said, you go back, every coach he hired, Kirby, Lane Kiffin, Sarkeesian, the coach at Maryland, like he hired guys who had got fired, Bush Jones, because number one, they know how to run. if you're a head coach, because being an assistant coach is like night and day from being a head coach. Right. But he hired guys who had ran things, who knew how to organize things. But he's like, I'm a strong assistant around me. But a lot of these coaches, going back to the area you're talking about, they hired their buddies who didn't know what they were doing, who were like, they were worried about somebody taking their job.

1:22:18I want somebody around me who was ambitious, who wants something other than an assistant. You got to be successful. You got to surround yourself with successful people.

1:22:30Bill Simmons:Right. I agree with you. I've tried. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. They can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+. You matched on Hinge. You're vibing. Then her energy completely changes. What do you do?

1:23:04Bill Simmons:I'm Raven Smith, and I wrote and read a real love story about this exact sitch. Listen to the free audiobook now. You always come on every early September before the NFL season. This is the fourth or fifth straight time. you have opinions, you have picks. Two years ago, we looked this up. Two years ago, you picked the Eagles to win the Super Bowl, and they actually did. So I think you're one in four lifetime with us. So obviously everyone's on pins and needles to see if you can increase their percentages. What do you have for the season? Let me tell you something, man. I was so excited when last Saturday happened.

1:23:43It was like Christmas. They call it week zero. I finally got to go into a sports book and bet on football. I was, because now it's like Christmas for me every Saturday and Sunday for the next six, seven months. You know, football is my favorite sport. I don't normally leave my house on Saturday and Sunday because I bet on football every weekend. I just freaking love it. I do. I love it. And so last week, I went in the casino for the first time, and the guy looks at me like, it's like Christmas for you, isn't it? I said, it is like Christmas in the middle of the damn summer. And I'm good to go.

1:24:20I'm good to go for the minute. I am. I love going into casino every Saturday and Sunday, betting on football, Bill. I do. But this is going to be a great year. You know, obviously, everybody's on the Rams bandwagon. Man, it's great to see Aaron Donald back. I got so much love and respect for that guy.

1:24:42But in the AFC, man, I want this team to win the Super Bowl so damn bad, Bill. I want to see the Buffalo Bills. Josh Allen, to me, is the best player in football. I saw Herm Edwards say that the other day on ESPN. He said, this guy's the best player in football. And they went out and got him a weapon, DJ Moore. I hope it's enough. I hope they improve their defense. I would love to see they got a new head coach, obviously. But I want to see the Buffalo Bills because, you know, you're talking about the shit list earlier. I think one of the greatest accomplishments in sports history, they're never going to get recognition or the love it deserves.

1:25:25The Buffalo Bills going to four straight Super Bowls. That's never happened before, but they're never going to get the respect they deserve. They never won one. is one of the great, because you talked about earlier all the wear and tear you put on your body when you play all those extra games, all those year after year after year. But the Buffalo Bills had the, and it sucks. They've never gotten the credit and respect that they deserve for that accomplishment. But I'm all in on Buffalo. I would love to see them win the AFC and get to the Super Bowl. And the NFC, man, the Seattle Seahawks have to be the most disrespected champion in the history of football.

1:26:07I got a chance to meet their coach, Coach McDonald in Lake Tahoe. And man, the job he did, man, that defense was incredible. Sam McDonald, he didn't see ghosts anymore. He just saw the Vince Lombardi. But that defense was incredible. They don't even get mentioned anymore. It's all about the Rams. Like I said, I know they got miles and I'm glad to see Aaron Donald back, But, man, Seattle has to be the most disrespected team, Super Bowl champion in a long time. Can your Patriots be good again since they got my man, AJ? You know, that's going to be interesting. You know, how are my Eagles going to do now?

1:26:52That's the big question in Philly. There's going to be a lot of pressure on Jalen to play at a high school. so if you look at it listen I think the sleeper team you know why I know they're a sleeper team the quietest mouse in the room has been Jerry Jones this is the first time that I can ever remember they went the entire preseason without Jerry being on television every single day that tells me he thinks the Cowboys got a legit chance I agree.

1:27:30Bill Simmons:Super quiet for two months. Listen, you think about for the last few years, it's been Michael's contract, Dak's contract for the last three or four years. C.D. Lamb. C.D. Lamb's contract the year before. I haven't heard Jerry on preseason, which tells me he thinks they got a good team. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, so they're going to be really good. Man, but that's what, you know, Can Kyler Murray Listen, Ken McConnell is a genius on offense Can Kyler resurrect his career? Man Oh, here's another wild one It's now or never For Lamar in Baltimore It's now or never That's what makes I tell people, when you play sports When you got a good team the beginning of the season there's nothing like it, Bill.

1:28:31Like, guys know when their team sucks. Yeah. But when you have the... Because I tell people very few years when you play basketball or football, you're like we got a chance of winning the championship or winning the Super Bowl. Like, I played for 16 years It's probably five years. I'm like, we got a chance of winning a championship. And probably football is harder, but, you know, but there's probably 10 teams that's got a legit chance to win the Super Bowl. The other 20, they're like, we're trying to get better. If we make the playoffs, we're going to have a good year. But when you like the Patriots, they got to get to the Super Bowl to feel like they had another good year.

1:29:22Buffalo, Baltimore

1:29:24Bill Simmons:Two thoughts on what you said Because I said this last week about the Seahawks I'm so glad you said that about them being disrespected I was making the case last week They might be the first NFL Super Bowl champ Who is a nobody believes in us team Everybody's moved on They have basically 95 % of their team is back from last year When they dominated everybody And I don't know Everybody's just blowing the Rams, blowing the Rams, blowing the Rams But if I'm, you mentioned McDonald, how good of a coach he is. You know he's going to use it as motivation the whole year. Everybody's already handing the Super Bowl to the Rams.

1:29:59Bill Simmons:It's like we didn't even win. You know how this goes. This happens in football all the time. Yeah, I heard some idiots on TV talking about, can the Rams go undefeated? I'm like, undefeated? Like, damn, they ain't made the playoffs yet. So, but, you know, that's what makes fodder. But, like, you know who I got a man crush on? Dan Campbell. I want to see Dan Campbell. I would love to see Detroit get back to the playoffs and do some damage. I mean, but that's what makes sports crazy, Bill. Because last year, nobody expected your Patriots to get to the Super Bowl. No. I thought they would be good.

1:30:39I didn't see it. How about Sean Payton in Denver? This might be the favorite in the AFC. They might have got to the Super Bowl last year if if my boy, if my boy, if my boy, if my boy didn't get hurt. I mean,

1:30:53Bill Simmons:there was two teams. The, the Denver absolutely could have beaten the Patriots. It probably would have. Nick's didn't get hurt. And then Houston would have beaten the Patriots. If Stroud didn't completely fall apart in that game. Cause Houston had the best defense, at least in the AFC, maybe in the whole league. And also, can he rebound? He, he probably, he probably got more pressure on him. Then any player. In the NFL. when you got a defense that good and you were the single hand of the reason they lost and like he's probably in my opinion he's probably got more pressure on him than any player in the NFL I truly believe that well and that's the difference between basketball and football because in basketball you're all basically one unit and you have the starters in the bench in football you have the offense and the defense and if you have an awesome defense and your QB is just letting you down over and over again It's almost like when Matt Maloney couldn't hit a three-point shot in the playoffs for you guys.

1:31:51Bill Simmons:And it's like, that's one guy. But this is like an entire unit that's just submarining you. The thing is, you just don't have to turn the ball over. You don't have to play great. Right, drive the car. Yeah, just keep us on the highway. And that's the thing. It's hard to play sports under pressure. is he going to just let it fly or be tentative? That's the hardest thing about sports that people don't realize. It's hard to play sports under pressure. Like once he throws his first interceptor, how's he going to react? Right. But that's what makes sports intriguing. That's why we watch. Well, and then the quarterbacks just in general this year.

1:32:37Bill Simmons:We have Lamar's at a really interesting point in his career. you have Knicks who I think has a team that at least is like a top 16 potentially if he's good enough you have Jalen Hurts who you haven't even mentioned yet with a huge spotlight on him now with another offensive coordinator no AJ Brown making a lot of money out of Eagles fans where are the Eagles fans staying with Jalen Hurts these days this is going to be a big year for him this is going to be a big year this is going to be a big year because you know they took the noise out the room and like, okay, because they choked it's the other guy.

1:33:15We got rid of the other guy. Now, okay, it's on you. And listen, that's the way this thing works. They pick the guy. They said, okay, this relationship is not solvable. And they're like, we're going to take you. And that's just the way this bounces. It's all on Jalen now.

1:33:37Bill Simmons:Yeah, the Rams thing is interesting because comparing it to basketball, when you have heavy favorites in basketball, like San Antonio and Oklahoma city, you can't even bet on them to make the playoffs. They've made the odds so high. It's like literally impossible to bet on it. Cause you know, like whatever happens, they're going to have the infrastructure to be good. And in football, you know, the Rams as good as they're like top seven or eight are, and as great as their coaches, it's still football. And you lose two of those guys and you have a top heavy team and all of a sudden that can tilt away.

1:34:07Bill Simmons:So anytime I ever see somebody that's a prohibitive favorite, I just don't, I'm not buying it. I don't think anybody should be a prohibitive favorite. Well, you know, listen, guys on television and radio have to pick somebody and they don't pick the prettiest girl. You know, can Matt Stafford stay healthy? You know, he stayed healthy and won MVP, but, you know, he's up there in age. So, you know, they took the kids something from Alabama. He didn't mind to go out there and play as a rookie. Right. But that's what makes sports amazing. Like, sports, like, in real time, like, you get to be high, low, mad, sad, excited.

1:34:54We do all this stuff in real time. That's why when the season first starts, Bill, it is such a ray of joy over cities, over people. It's beautiful to watch.

1:35:09Bill Simmons:Alright, so it sounds like so I have Houston and Seattle in the Super Bowl and I have Seattle winning back to back. Your Super Bowl pick is what? Some two defenses that you picked the final score is going to be 17-14. That's fine. As my man said, that's going to be a slobber knocker. I'm rooting for Josh Allen I'm going to go Buffalo Bills against Seattle and the Buffalo Bills are going to win the Super Bowl over Seattle 21-17 Wow So you're saying they finally get off the hump Josh Allen gets off the shit list Buffalo as a city gets off the shit list just like a shit list cleansing And it's going to be one of the great days in sports my man, Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas, Bruce Smith, Daryl Talley, I forget.

1:36:06What's Steve's name? The point returner, the great quick returner. Oh,

1:36:10Bill Simmons:Steve Lasker. Forget his name. Who? Is it Steve Tasker? Steve Tasker. Yeah. Steve Tasker. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love those guys. I became a Bills fan because of Cornish Bennett and Jim Kelly and Thurman Thomas and those guys and Bruce Smith. So I want them to get off the list because just same way I saw, you see the excitement on those Knicks players, Patrick, Larry Johnson, John Starks and all those guys. It was great. Yeah, so I would love to see those guys be on the parade with the Buffalo Bills. Got a new stadium and everything. Yeah, really now that the Knicks have won the title, I would say, is it the Suns?

1:36:49Bill Simmons:That would be the most euphoric fan base if they won the title. They haven't since 1970, they've had a team. They've great fans. We're not going to win a championship. That's your best self, brother. Stop that, Bill. I'm saying down the road, not this year. Well, how about my Sixers? That'd be great, too. You won in 83. I guess that was a long time ago. Fast millennium. Suns never won. I know. Thanks for reminding me. Well, it's true. But no, man. It was great for New York. I told you it was exciting, but man, that's the beauty of sports, man. You start from the bottom every year, and whatever happens, it plays out in real time.

1:37:36Real time.

1:37:38Bill Simmons:So would you expand if you were the NBA, or would you just move Brooklyn and the Clippers to two different cities and stay at 30? Well, we need a team in Seattle. Yeah, no kidding. Seattle has the best fan base in pro sports, probably. That was one of the worst decisions they made moving that team out of Seattle. I always feel bad about screwing a fan base, moving a team. But the number one priority, we need a team in Seattle, period. And I know they want to do Vegas, but the number one priority should be Seattle. They have the best fan base in sports. We agree. Charles Barkley, a pleasure as always.

1:38:19Bill Simmons:We'll see who's right. We both have Seattle in the Super Bowl. You have Buffalo. I have Houston. I have Seattle winning. You have Buffalo winning. Hey, man. We'll see who wins. Thanks for having me. You're a good man. Continued success. Thanks for having me. You too. Always great to see you, Charles. Thanks. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Charles Barkley. Thanks to Eduardo Gajau as well from The Ringer. And I'm going to be back on Sunday. We're going to be live on Netflix, I think at 7 o 'clock ET, me and Sal doing Guest Alliance week one, plus our NFL Futures draft that we always love to do.

1:38:53Bill Simmons:Enjoy the weekend. I will see you on Sunday.

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1:40:09Bill Simmons:The wild world of college football continues Labor Day weekend. On Saturday, East Carolina looks to shock Alabama, and Baylor and Auburn battle it out in Atlanta in the Aflac kickoff game. Then Clemson hits the road looking to spoil Lane Kiffin's Death Valley debut. Sunday night, it's Louisville versus Ole Miss in Nashville in the inaugural Liberty Mutual Music City kickoff game. College football Labor Day weekend continues Saturday and Sunday on ABC and the ESPN app.