Game 7 Fever in OKC, NBA Lottery Reform, and a Mega-Mailbag With Rob Mahoney, David Jacoby, and Joe House

21:13Bill Simmons:Like 132 games in two seasons. And him basically, if they're going to win, he's going to be the best player in that game. Yeah. And at age 22, I had the four of the seven best games in the series and we won four games to three. And now here we come, New York Knicks. You are now, like, I feel like he has the most at stake, even though if it doesn't happen this year, we'll just be like, oh, it'll be fine. It'll happen for him next year. Who do you think has the most at stake? Like, yeah, I mean, Wemby is the most to gain, probably, for that reason. That's what it is. Most to gain. Most to gain, but not a lot to lose, because you're right.

21:44I think, right or wrong, we will expect that he has a lot of time ahead of him to be in series and competitive situations like this one. The most at stake. I mean, the Thunder are in such an odd place overall, just in terms of their reputation and, like, their place in the basketball consciousness. It's like, they're defending champions, and they get a lot of respect based on that. But clearly, they're not the most liked team in recent basketball history. and I wonder if they lose a series like this one, and let's say next season is also a challenging one for whatever reason, like you can see their story taking a really sharp turn.

22:17I don't think that's what's going to happen. I kind of do expect that OKC will win game seven. I don't know that we're really in a position to predict anything at this point, given the way this series has gone. But within that, the idea of Shea coming out of this series shooting like 37 % from the field in a round that even though the Thunder are injured, they lose. I could see there being a lot of questions and a lot of interrogation about just like them and the construction of their team and what they should be moving forward.

22:44Bill Simmons:And there's some, do we have the right team to battle Wemby? We just lost to them and that the Spurs aren't even really the Spurs yet. We would open a lot of questions. Definitely a lot more like, oh man, we're already searching for answers here. We just won a kajillion games. We won the title last year. Now we have to question ourselves. I think from San Antonio's side, I'm trying to think like ranking dudes who would have to come through because game sevens, they're slower, they're uglier, they're more on the rock fight side. Yep. What we have seen though in recent years is road teams being able to go on the road and winning game sevens, which in the old days, you just won game sevens at home.

23:26Bill Simmons:That's just how it went. And then that started to shift. And now every once in a while, we seem to have these Philly at Boston, Dallas at Phoenix. We have these ones where they're not even just winning on the road. They're killing teams on the road. They're just eradicating them. With that said, I do feel like the home court has mattered unusually in this series because it ramps up the defense on both sides. The three-point shooters are going to be a little more comfortable at home. San Antonio, for the guys that have to come through, one of Vassell and Champagny. Yes. I need a four or five three game for one of them.

24:01Bill Simmons:I need Harper to play like he did today, period. I need Fox not to suck like he did. I don't need him to be good, but you can't suck. You can't go like one for 10. And I need Wemby to be closer to where he was in the three wins than the three losses. What else needs to happen for them? I think they probably need another stretch like they had tonight where they look really good in the minutes without Weminyama on the floor. Like this was one of the first times where that really broke for them in the series. They looked confident. They were hitting shots. The ball boom was really good. The energy felt right.

24:32And that's an area where like Keldon Johnson has become a really important player for them in this series from an energy standpoint. And as Fox has kind of faded into the background and when Harper was hurt, Keldon was one of the few guys who was consistently driving for them. So I would say he's pretty important for them too in sort of counterbalancing the upswing of OKC's role players at home.

24:53Bill Simmons:Well, we have Thunder by three and a half on FanDuel is our game seven line. Yeah. Today's game seven line, or game six line was Spurs by three and a half. and I think the last game was Thunder by 3.5 so it's just basically whoever's home is that must be the established home court advantage from a referee standpoint so if it's if they're not calling stuff like they did today usually I would think that helps OKC but today it really helps San Antonio yeah it feels like the kind of game when there's a million fouls is always better for OKC we'll see who we who we'll get. Today we had Zach Zarba. I forget who else, but I'm sure we'll get...

25:36Bill Simmons:James Capers is probably the best ref they have. Maybe Mark Davis, but hopefully it's not another Tony Brothers 80 fouls situation would be my one guess. We simply can't. But can Dort and Caruso unleash the Bruise Brothers routine? Are they going to be allowed to do it? are they going to ramp up their stuff on Fox and Harper? And does Wemby have it in them this early? Yeah. Because if he does, we're going to have four days to talk about a Spurs-Knicks finals and it's just going to be a Wemby fest. You're going to have the new generational superstar here and then you're going to have the most famous team we have other than the Celtics and the Lakers trying to win their first title in 53 years.

26:24Bill Simmons:And it's going to be about as good from a hype finals as we're going to have. Well, it's already been a Wemby Fest. I mean, have you been listening to this podcast? Have you listened to group chat? Like it's all we can all talk about because we're, I mean, games like this are why, you know? It was a totally different kind of dominance than I think a lot of people were calling for. There was a lot of like, how do you get Wemby closer to the basket? How do you get him attacking more? Turns out he can just beat you this way too on some nights. And if he's going to be hitting step backs against Isaiah Hardenstein, that might just be it.

26:53Like that just might be your season right there. I really can't wait for this. I do think as far as the OKC, like balance of all that physicality and what the refereeing looks like, even if they're giving a lot of leeway on that stuff, I think Lou Dorges has to play less. Like the self-destructive possessions that we've been talking about with this game, there were like maybe five to seven of those in the first half alone between the hijacking possessions from three, like looking off of swing passes that he should have made and taking his own. He flopped really badly on defense, trying to sell a moving screen that then led to a wide open three.

27:29There were just so many possessions like that where I think in a game seven, you can't leave anything to chance. It needs to be like a Caruso playing 36 minutes and a Ludo playing 10 to 15 minutes. Even this felt like too much.

27:43Bill Simmons:Two for 11, one from nine for three in 22 minutes. It was a minus nine. Even if you look at all his games in May, he's only scored 10 points once 6, 3, 10 6, 5, 8, 0 2, 7, 5 eye test wise doesn't look like the same guy from last year he's a little bit older and he's like a running back or a tight end who has a lot of miles on him and he has a team option on him next year that I'm sure is weighing over his head too like you know he's playing for his next contract and he just has looked out of sorts this whole time I thought I've said this before I thought he was the reason him and Caruso were the reasons they won that game four in Indiana which I think if they lose that game I don't think they win the series no matter I don't think we get to a game seven against Halbert and in George's defense too like they really didn't need his scoring until this point right in the first two rounds like the Thunder were doing just fine like going basket for basket Shea was scoring at a much higher level Chet was a more kind of like versatile unlocked offensive weapon although he's kind of he's kind of tilted up as the series has gone on I think with the offensive rebounding in particular, but they're just in these games where everything goes to shit for them.

28:53They are so desperate for offense. And Lou Dort is, he is contributing to the strangulation that's happening there. Yeah.

29:00Bill Simmons:I don't love plus minus, but even in the game the other night, 18 minutes minus four in a game that they won by 13. Yeah. And then what was he in this last one? Yeah. Minus 16 and 17 minutes. I'm with you. I wonder like, this is one of the things. I mean, I love so many things about a game seven. You're just making different decisions than you're doing all year. It's like, you're not there to, you don't care if feelings are hurt in a game seven. It's like, hey, Lou Dort, you're going to play eight minutes tonight. And that's just how it's going to go. Hey, Caruso, you might play 32. We'll see what Wemby can pull out of him from a minute standpoint.

29:37Bill Simmons:I don't really understand his, how he's tired one day and then not tired the next. But when I saw him dressed, what was he dressed like a monk today? Yeah. What was that outfit? I think it was, no? Throwback to... Where did he go to talk to the monks? Tibet? Shout out to everyone from Tibet with that outfit. It's really something. Alright, so your prediction or you don't want to predict? I think OKC will win. I don't feel great about it. Clearly the line between these two teams is very thin, but then varies wildly in terms of what the actual margin of victory is. I think for me, the shooting of the role players tilting back OKC's way as it seems like it just will when they go back home and every other game.

30:22The nerves kind of playing into their favor, having been in games like this before and specifically for Shea, like when it comes down to who do you feel confident will have the lift and the balance in their game in those moments. I do think you tilt a little toward the experience of someone like the Thunder in this case. And I do think that guys like Chet have made just enough of a change over the course of this series. He's been good defensively pretty much the whole way through, but he's finding enough ways to score where I'm like, I can kind of see the whole picture of a Thunder win coming together, even though based on tonight's game film, you would never expect him.

30:57Bill Simmons:Who do you think the Knicks want to win? I think the Knicks want the most injured version of the Thunder to win possible. Like a banged up, worn and torn Thunder. Yeah, I don't think, even with how they played in the regular season and the cup with the Spurs and all that, both of the teams, the Knicks and the Spurs, were in such different places then. The idea of grappling with this version of Wemby is such a unique challenge and such a daunting one that I don't think anyone necessarily wants that versus the Thunder are a great team, an incredibly formidable defense even still, but you see the state that J-Dub is in.

31:33You see that A.J. Mitchell isn't on the floor and you see kind of like what that does to their offense to lack any kind of supplementary options whatsoever. I think the Knicks would prefer that sort of matchup than trying to figure out the Spurs.

31:46Bill Simmons:I'm leaning OKC as well. It would be unusual for a team this young to come back from 3-2 and win a game seven on the road against the defending champs. But you just made the point. These aren't really the defending champs if JW is just going to basically not be playing. Yeah. I mean, at this point, like whatever he was doing tonight, I'd rather just not play him and ride with the guys I have. I wouldn't be surprised if Game 7, he plays that first three-minute blip and then you never see him again. They try it for a second just to see if there's any more traction there. But if it looks like this, I don't think he can play much in that game.

32:30Bill Simmons:Unbelievable stuff. Zach Lowe and I are going to be going live on Netflix after Game 7. So my Sunday night pod this weekend is going to be a Saturday night pod. We're just going to... I'm just going to go for it. We'll see how it goes. Before you and I go, Rob Mahoney, the lottery reform thing, House and Jacoby and I are about to talk about that after the break. And I'm going to give my thoughts to them. But the lottery reform, they really went for it. They did a bunch of stuff. There was one piece that we didn't talk about in the next segment that it looks like the second round is going to reverse in order from...

33:06Bill Simmons:I didn't even see this. Yeah. Now, it hasn't been confirmed in the reporting yet, but it was one of the things they voted on that basically if you have the 16th pick, you'll have the first pick in the second round. Spoiler alert, my thoughts were all of this sounds great until we end up with the 1993 situation of the Magic winning twice in a row. Do you like this 3-2-1 thing? I like elements of it. I think there are parts of it that, especially in the transition, feel super clunky and maybe borderline unfair to some of the teams that have been operating under the assumption of the league as is as they try to put their teams together.

33:46Like the Grizzlies in particular are in such, they get such a raw deal because of the trade that they made with the Jazz where they have the Jazz's pick. Like, I feel like most of the other widespread overhauls of a system like this in NBA history are usually stationed a couple years out for exactly this reason. It's like, okay, we got to let the pick protections expire. We got to get through this cycle of transactions and then the changes will start. I applaud like a more urgent dealing, but the trade-off for that is like, I don't know how you could explain this to the Grizzlies. They're like, oh, I'm sorry.

34:16I know you thought you were getting what was going to be like a top five pick from the Jazz potentially in the future, but you're just fucked.

34:24Bill Simmons:Well, and then the other side of it is like, you're Indiana, you trade your first rounder this year that you lose because of the protections. And then you trade your 29 first as well. And then all these rules come in. And now that 29 first is a much better pick than it was. I feel like the picks that really weren't like from the shittiest teams that were that next level of like playoff teams or French playoff teams. Like if you have like Miami's first round pick. Yeah. Right. We have golden States first round pick or who knows, even the having the Celtics pick in 2029, all of a sudden those picks gain value.

35:03Bill Simmons:Yes. And then the other piece of it where normally like the Celtics had those Nets picks a couple times. And there was one year when I think it was the, I can't remember which one of them, but Brooke Lopez was just on a heater. And it was like, we're going to get the top three pick from the Nets. And then Brooke Lopez was just going nuts for like two straight months because the Nets had nothing to play for. And they played into a little bit of a later position. Yeah. Now it's like you could have a team's pick. They could play into that four to 10 spot. And now you have better odds than to pick anyway.

35:38Bill Simmons:So I don't know. It's there's, they really, really blew this up in ways that I don't even know what all the ramifications are going to be. I'm surprised like you that they didn't wait a year and just say like, maybe even with the top five protection or whatever, you know, and can't win two years in a row. Why not start that in 2027? We've seen it again with almost every other giant rule change in the league. I mean, this is going to have, I would think, massive repercussions on the trade market in general for exactly what you outlined with the picks, right? Like any mid-level team is going to talk themselves into holding on to a pick because it could be immensely valuable under this new odds standard.

36:13And so I'm like, I'm cool with that as someone who like, I like talking about the games more than the potential trades. But I hope the league is okay with the fact that so much of the interest in the NBA is driven by who is the player your team can get. And I just think we're going to see fewer traits as a result of this. It's going to really sap a lot of the energy out of, or really the ability for these teams to deal with each other. If it's all just player for player, and there's really not a lot of sweetening involved with the picks.

36:40Bill Simmons:All right, we're going to, I'm taking a break, and then House and Jacoby are coming on. We're going to do a mailbag, but we talk about lottery reform at the top. More importantly for you, not only can we hear you on group chat on the Ringer NBA show, but you're going live on Sunday for the season or series finale of Euphoria. We are not sure. Season finale, series finale, we have no idea, but you're going to be live on our Ringer TV YouTube channel, you and Joanna Robinson. Yes. Was it an hour and a half? How long do we think this show is going to be? I think it's confirmed. It's over 90 minutes.

37:12Oh my God. We're going to be going live at 8.30 Pacific. Come along. Maybe every character will be dead. Maybe we'll be setting up like a weird backdoor pilot season four. I don't know what's going on with this show anymore, but I can't wait to find out.

37:24Bill Simmons:They can't torture Jacob Elordi anymore because he's been killed off, right? Can they torture his corpse? Spoiler alert if you're not caught up on euphoria. It's not going well for Jacob Elordi right now. Just kidding. Well, it's gone terribly. It's true. I don't think it could go worse. Correction. It's going very well for Jacob Elordi, who no longer has to be like doing acting in one room by himself on the show anymore. But for Nate Jacobs, he's having a rough go. You guys are bigger. You and Joanne are bigger fans of this season than I was. My daughter is laugh helpful on everything. So she's like, no, no, it's good.

37:58Bill Simmons:It's good. I don't think it's been good. And I think you can really feel them filming in different parts of, you know, you just, you know what I like on a TV show when the best characters are all together for scenes. Imagine it. Yeah. Little radical. The other thing we're doing this weekend, because I'm on Saturday night with Zach, rewatchables now moving to Sunday and we did 2001. So that is coming as well. 2001, A Space Odyssey will now be running Sunday night for rewatchables. Rob, thanks for staying up with me. Great to see you. We're going to take a break. Come back with House of Jacoby. Thanks, Bill.

38:31Bill Simmons:The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. FanDuel giving you better payouts on same-game parlays. All NBA playoffs long. More ways to build and more value every time you play. Stack your picks your way. Every game, every matchup, every moment, spreads, player points, threes, unders, whatever you want. Build it all into one same-game parlay. Go for bigger payouts. So if you're betting NBA same-game parlays this postseason, do it on FanDuel. More options, better payouts, all NBA playoffs long. Head to FanDuel.com slash BS to get started. FanDuel, official partner of the NBA. Play your game.

39:05Bill Simmons:21-plus select states are 18-plus DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.FanDuel.com. If you have a problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by PayPal. On the court, the pitch, the track, even the pool. Professional athletes show extraordinary physical flexibility. For us normal people, we've got PayPal's flexible monthly payment plans. Pay nothing at checkout, then enjoy a flexible monthly payment plan that works for you. With no signup or late fees. and it's available in millions of stores.

39:44Bill Simmons:Pay monthly with PayPal. Subject to approval, pay monthly consumer loans made by WebBank, available through PayPal Inc. NMLS 910457. Learn more at paypal.com slash paymonthly. All right, we are recording this part of the podcast. It is before game six of Spurs Thunder. So if there's an Artes Melee situation or something crazy, we didn't know about it. the lottery reform came in today, guys. The 3-2-1 method. There's going to be 37 balls total. The bottom three teams will get two instead of three. They're calling it the relegation zone. They can't fall lower than the 12th pick from what I can gather.

40:30Bill Simmons:And I don't know if I like this or not. I like it more than I did a month ago. But I still feel like House's Wizards, for instance, if they, if you had tried the whole year, how many games would you have won house? If you'd really tried? 20-ish. I mean, with the original roster with CJ McCollum, because McCollum, they went on a stretch where they won five of seven games at the end of December into early January. Like, hey, CJ, great to see you. Thank you for everything. They literally traded him after that stretch of success. But I have a more important question, which is to Jacoby, which is, you know, how many times has he tried the 3-2-1 method with his wife?

41:11Bill Simmons:has you been in the relegation zone the answer is yes i've definitely been in the relegation zone well here's the thing you mentioned the the mccollum trade so one of the benefits of this i guess would be that we're going to see less deadline trades and giveaways and we're going to see less of just anthony davis getting traded for nothing or like what the bulls did if i'm the bowls. Like, do I trade the sumu and I do, I trade Kobe white. If it's not really technically going to make me that much worse. And I'm going to be in that four to 10 range, which is going to have the most ping pong balls anyway.

41:45Bill Simmons:Are we going to see guys get given away? Um, are we going to see conversely teams that are worried about being in the relegation zone, trying to trade for players that will help them. There's all of these ramifications to this, that I'm trying to wrap my head around Jacob's, but the biggest thing, and we were all live for this was the 93 lottery when they did 66 balls and they did, it was 11 teams in the lottery house remembers this. We were both out of college and it basically was the most simple way you could do it. The worst team got 11 balls. Second worst got 10 third worst got nine and went all the way down to the best of the worst teams was Orlando who got one ball.

42:24Bill Simmons:They had a one in 66 chance and they got Chris Weber who they then traded for Penny Hardaway and three first round picks and everyone lost their fucking minds. Do you remember this? Cause they had gotten Shaq the year before then they got Weber and everybody was like, Oh my God, how can this happen? And that led to 30 years of lottery reform, Jacoby. So why wouldn't that happen again with this new system? Well, a couple of things.

42:48David Jacoby:Number one, that's not the biggest thing. The biggest thing is that they're going to televise it. Like we were talking about this last time I was live in person. Like you got to remember like this, you know, Jacoby, the TV producer, I've got to put my producer hat on here. This is now a television event. Instead of them doing it in some back room and then a host reading it. That, to me, is the biggest thing. It'll be a really fun thing to watch. Franchises change right there in the moment. It is a little stale when Erson Young has it in a briefcase or whatever, and it's in this secret room. I like the idea that it's going to happen live on television.

43:19David Jacoby:It's going to be a television event. The second best thing about this... Hold on.

43:22Bill Simmons:We figured it's going to be 37 balls and just one pops out and that's it. Like they're not going to do the complicated four balls thing. It'll just be one.

43:32David Jacoby:Yeah, it'll be like, I imagine it'll be like, like watching like the lotto on like the five o 'clock news when we were kids. There'll be like some hot girl just like the ball pop up. It'll have like a logo on it.

43:44Bill Simmons:Way easier to fix house. Well, here's the thing. Jacoby, the most recent draft was very dramatic. And I know that people knew the results. I didn't know the results. And it was, it was live enough for me. I mean, it was very, very, but the last five picks as a fan of, of, you know, the wizard was, I was on the edge of my seat. I was barely breathing. That's fair. But that's why we need the actual GMs out there. The people at the most at stake in real time. What was your second favorite thing to coach

44:17David Jacoby:easily? And, uh, my pod brother, Chris Vernon, that was not unanimous. The governor voted 29 approved and one did not. And the Memphis Grizzlies were like, fuck this. I love it so much. And that all has to do with the Utah pick, which we've discussed. But I just love the idea that the Grizzlies are just like, somehow the Grizzlies get screwed no matter what.

44:39Bill Simmons:Well, the thing is, in a fantasy league, if you change the rules this dramatically for the next year where people have future stuff, there would be a lot of arguments and angry emails going back and forth about, well, I have three first round picks in the minor league draft next year. Now you're changing rules. I mean, this is bullshit. you're trying to screw me. Um, but somehow that didn't happen in the NBA. They did add the top five restricted thing. They did add the, you couldn't win the picks two years in a row, the first pick. So I liked that stuff, but, um, I don't know. I, I, I feel like this could lead to some result that we're all completely horrified by, right?

45:16Bill Simmons:Like, okay. See, having somebody's pick who's the 10th pick and then okay. See ending up with the first pick or just some sort of thing where they're like, oh, this was the worst case scenario and it happened because that's what happened with the Chris Weber thing. I don't mind it though. I don't mind the idea of a relegation zone and teams being humiliated. Right? House's team should have been humiliated the last couple of years and it finally happened with Bam out of Bios. Well, they were humiliated. Yeah. That's right. But that's all they're doing was responding as rational actors to a system that they didn't create, but they certainly leveraged, you know, the opportunity.

45:50So we'll see what set of opportunities Sounds like we all kind of like it.

45:54David Jacoby:well it's an improvement and they're also like all mba changes they're just like floating out ideas to see how the public reacts to it and this has got like they call i read the thing is called like a sunset provision so it actually is only in place for until the 29 year yeah so they can't change it if something goofy happens they're sort of being like we're testing this it's a three-year test drive and we'll reevaluate in three years which i kind of like too the whole concept of

46:19Bill Simmons:watching your team suck ass for six months and then falling into the relegation zone is really rough. Like, like we really got to, because there's going to be some fan bases, like if that had happened to Indiana this year, they don't have Halbert and they lose Turner. They have a bunch of injuries the first half of the year. And just by no fault of their own, they ended up bottom three and had two balls instead of three. That's rough. Well, they got the functional equivalent of that. I mean, for all of that pain, they got Zubach. Oh, yeah. You're right. They drafted Zubach. Richard's going to apologize again.

46:55Bill Simmons:I'll tell you this. I'll pass along some intel that's been floating around. Ooh. Apparently, the Kings love Acuff, which I don't think is a super secret there. It's seven. And the Clippers have five and don't need Acuff because they have a point guard already. and it would be really easy for them to flip picks and for them to end up with a little extra something, something from Sacramento, which I guess would be some sort of swap or future pick, whatever. They could turn that Zubats pick into the seventh pick, Indiana's 20, 29 pick, and then something from Sacramento, the best team in the league to trade for, which would make it one of the better trades we've had.

47:35Bill Simmons:Right? Just for Zubats, who's like, I like Zubats. I voted for him 13, well, it'd be a year ago, but that's an incredible trade. I have to get off some stuff that I forgot to do on Tuesday. Biggest losers from the Knicks Cavs sweep in the East. I'm just going to read this to you in no particular order. Speaking of Sacramento, did you see this? This was floating around a little bit about Sacramento. The 2026 finals, if San Antonio makes it, it could be Mike Brown against Darren Fox. 25, Halliburton was the best guy in a finals team. 24, Luka was the best guy on a finals team who they passed up for Marvin Bagley.

48:15Bill Simmons:And then 2023, Michael Malone was the coach of the team that won. House, do you have anyone from Sacramento that could throw the Wizards into this for 27? I saw that. The Sacramento thing? I really admired it. But you know, it only parallels Washington, this Washington franchise. I think the streak is now up to 18 straight finals, 19 straight finals. where a former wizard is going to participate in the finals. But the kings are the gift that keeps on giving. That's where our focus should be. It's appropriately there. And let's just let them keep doing what they're doing. It's very good for the basketball.

48:56It's very good for the narratives. It's very good for our podcasts, like the Over Under podcast at the beginning. It's one of the only things we got right. Zach Lowe was the most vicious I've ever seen Zach Lowe.

49:10Bill Simmons:He really loved it. Went dark. It was like watching a TV drama when the cop goes dark and starts doing weird shit.

49:16David Jacoby:I feel like you guys should be in the relegation zone because of that Overhunders podcast.

49:20Bill Simmons:We probably should. I mean, I'd be fine with it. We only get to pick 25 of the teams. Jacobes, we dealt with Sacramento. I think Vivek's a nice guy. Anytime I run to him, he's a super nice guy. I'm not sure he should own an NBA team. I'm pretty sure at this point. But we dealt with him for that Grantland thing we did when they picked Stauskas, which was one of those mini documentaries that we had. I forget what year was that, like 2011 or 2012? I want to say 13. Yeah, 13. They led us in their draft room. And it was clear nobody wanted to take Stauskas except for Vivek, who overruled everyone. It's like, Stauskas, Stauskas?

49:56Bill Simmons:And it became this great internet moment. And he's just been giving us comedy ever since.

50:01David Jacoby:nothing was better than the maybe we should play four guys on defense thing was like what what forgot about that it's like oh yeah some things that shouldn't be said out loud but there was a they actually came to us for that they're like we will give you full access to our draft room we're

50:18Bill Simmons:like sure it ends up being a pretty i respected it all right so sacramento was a loser detroit's gm not doing anything at the trade deadline which we all killed them on on every podcast we have but why not? But I really wonder if they watch that going, fuck, if we'd had one more score. James Harden, who I thought took a proper pounding from everybody the last couple of weeks, but he's four straight trades now where the team that got him probably has real regrets after the trade. What is, what's the equivalent of this house? Like what food order is the, I regret it the next day food order, but it seemed like a great idea at eight 30 at night after three drinks.

50:57I'm going to say this with love in my heart. I'm going to say this respectfully. The answer for me personally is Kentucky fried chicken. For some reason, it just decimates me. And I only order it under the circumstances you just described. If I'm having fried chicken and I'm sober, then I order Popeye's because Popeye's is by far. And then if Popeye's isn't around, it's Bojangles. I'm in the South. I'm where I have access. But Kentucky fried chicken is everywhere. and it does have a tendency to be open until 2 in the morning in a lot of places. Jacob, do you agree with that?

51:31Bill Simmons:James Harden and the KFC order? Four straight teams now. Anything after 11 p.m.

51:38David Jacoby:Anything after 11 p.m. is the answer. That's the appropriate answer. That's true. That's true. Those are now being called James Hardens.

51:45Bill Simmons:The other great James Harden thing, 98 playoff wins now without a finals appearance, which ties him for the all-time record with Carl Malone. They're now linked. Carl Malone and James Harden. Most playoff wins without a finals appearance. All right, so I'm making him a loser. I want to push back. Why is James Harden a loser as a result of... I mean, there are very specific things you can point to. Once again, several games where his turnover has exceeded. How about just not running back on fast breaks? Just terrible transition defense that's been the story of his career? That's right. That's right.

52:23It's been the story of his career. It's no longer a bug. It's a feature. Plus, he's 36 years old. So my real quibble with Cleveland and Harden, I thought that trade was successful. I think it made sense. They couldn't rely on Darius Garland anymore. They went on a run. They put themselves in the top four seeds of the East, and they handled their business all the way up until they encountered a team that's just better than them. And Harden was important to them, especially in the first two series. Both those series went seven games. I'm not defending James Harden, but what I'm saying is I don't think he's a loser based on what we just saw.

53:03He's 36 years old. The franchise is the loser, especially if they extend him. But James Harden was just James Harden to me.

53:11Bill Simmons:But that's the issue. Jacobes, they clearly have a wink-wink with him. It's already come out. Yeah. So it's not just like, oh, we've traded for James Harden's expiring contract and we dumped the Garland thing and we'll be way under the tax next year because this money's coming up. He's going to get like a two or a three-year deal for like 30 million a year. So they're actually stuck with him going forward, knowing that him and Mitchell as a defensive backcourt isn't great. So I would say that's bad.

53:41David Jacoby:Well, I also thought it was bad at the end of game one when Brunson just went after him, possession after possession after possession. Snatched his soul. Yes, that wasn't great. And then after the series, I'm sure Atkinson's going to be on this list, but also after the series when he says, we are the better team. I was like, oh, I just saw four basketball contests between the two of you. And I didn't have the same impression, Mr. Hart. That was superb. I loved him for doing that. He was wonderful. I thought I played great defense. I thought we were the better team. Magnificent. Standing ovation.

54:17I have some good zags today.

54:18Bill Simmons:Are you going to dog on Kenny Atkinson being one of the big losers? No, no. I mean, I don't think he'll ever live that down. I feel like that's going to come up for the rest of his coaching career. He cannot, and he should not. And he shouldn't be a head coach ever again. I mean, I'm still looking for, I'm looking for those timeouts that he held onto in game one. I'm looking for him on eBay. He hasn't put them up yet, but you know, I wonder what, what price he could get for those. I think he feels like they, they were valuable to him in some form or fashion. Cause they're still in his pocket. He could, he can't, he can't use now cause they, they're out not playing any more games, but no, that dude is an assistant coach.

54:56The combo of that,

54:57Bill Simmons:the James Harden having to bring him back being way over the luxury tax again, and then having the Nick fans completely take over your arena for two straight games, which happened in two straight series, by the way, that was about as rough of a sweep as I can remember. We've had bad sweeps that was like Jacob's what was the worst sweep than that? It was like a soul

55:19David Jacoby:snatching sweep right? It had everything you would want because they looked so good at the beginning of game one and I'm sitting there watching and I'm like the Knicks had too much time off like they're too rusty this other team has been in battles for two seven game series they're a better team they were so much better for that first half so they had the the gut-wrenching loss in overtime, then everything else was just completely outclassed for in game two and game three. Then you had the fan takeover and then you have game four where Mitchell comes out and he's giving it, he's giving it his best in the first half and the second half they just didn't, they quit.

55:53David Jacoby:They just gave up and then you can hear the chance. It was just like, that's pretty bad. I mean, it's also bad that when they had to come out with like a headline that said like the calves are continuing with Kenny Atkinson, and it was shocking. I was like, oh, oh, whoa. I had to read it twice. I was like, oh. They made an announcement that he's keeping his job.

56:14Bill Simmons:Well, how's the counter as they finish fourth in a 30-team league? Don't overreact. Well, counter to the counter, they were supposed to win 57 games. They were supposed to match the output of the previous year and they had to trade Darius Garland before the trade deadline to capture the winning percentage and there was no explanation other than in and out. I mean, Mobley was supposed to continue to take another step. I mean, here's the thing for me. It's a sour situation. You laid it out, BS. Let me ask you guys this. When, let's just look at the calendar, what date before or after August the 1st is the first rumor that Donovan Mitchell would be interested in playing for a different basketball team?

56:59Bill Simmons:And is that as exciting for 12 other teams as it was like a year ago? So, um, well, I had my next loser, Evan Mobley, who I think is now a legit threat to be the fall guy and get sent somewhere because they got to get into the tax somehow. And if they, if they have the wink, wink with Harden, then it's Jared Allen, it's Mobley or it's, or it's, or it's Mitchell. Um, Jacob's, do you think, could you see yourself at Barclays next year eating a$15 Finney's Pizza and watching Mobley run high screens with Ben Seraph? Is that in play?

57:36David Jacoby:That's not so exciting.

57:37Bill Simmons:What if he was running it with Nolan Traore?

57:41David Jacoby:That's not doing it for me either. No? You're not?

57:44Bill Simmons:Not taking the train down there?

57:46David Jacoby:I do kind of like Yegor Joman. I can't afford to go to Knicks games, so Knicks games are in play. You know what? I can see both arguments, right? This was the first series with this core where they were really healthy. Every other year, there was like, yeah, but Garland was out. I also kind of feel like Mitchell was compromised against the Knicks, but I don't think that was going to make such a big difference. I could see them saying, let's make some tweaks and not make a huge move this offseason. But I could also see them saying, we've had this core. It has been mildly successful and very successful in the regular season, but not successful in the postseason.

58:23David Jacoby:Something needs to change. Like, I can see both sides of this decision.

58:27Bill Simmons:House, who says no to Mobley for the sixth pick? Who has the sixth pick? Brooklyn. No. Cavs. Yeah, Cavs say no. You save 50 million bucks. You bring in a guy, make it about nine. That's a different incentive. You save almost 40 million bucks and then all the luxury tax stuff too. The reason why it's reasonable is because if that team looks in the mirror and drinks some actual sort of honest serum, some truth serum, are they better than the Celtics next year? Do they think they are? That's why I'd be blowing it up. I mean, I would trade Mitchell if I were them, but I just think they have to do something.

59:07Bill Simmons:I think they had their window and this is it. Like the East is going to be better next year. I don't see how they're better next year. Pardon a year older. So another loser, LeBron James. I feel like Cleveland was a, like a fifth ring title chase team. I'll go there. You guys are close. I'll take the minimum. everyone loves when somebody takes the minimum when Karl Malone did that for the 0-3-0-4 Lakers it was like oh my god this guy just wants to win man he'll do anything I don't think LeBron is fixing anything if he goes there they weren't a LeBron James away from beating the beating the Knicks and then going into the next round against San Antonio OKC and winning and I just think that options out I don't see it.

59:53Bill Simmons:You agree Jacob's?

59:55David Jacoby:I'm fascinated by what LeBron does this offseason because I can't see anything that works. Literally, of all the teams, none of it really makes sense. The problem is he is a valuable player, so he should be compensated for his production.

1:00:12Bill Simmons:What's the price though? It's not a max price, but is it like 25 mil a year house? What is it? Two for 50? It's whatever the team he decides he wants to spend next year with can afford and fit and have one more great player. I still love, I mean, honestly, I think LeBron is a winner by virtue of what happened with Cleveland. Cleveland's the loser, not LeBron. LeBron wins LeBron doesn't have to go there. And he doesn't have to be coached by Kenny Atkinson. I mean, what are we talking about? The two options to me that are viable, a number one, the one I root for the most is the one that you threw out there, which is Kevin Durant and LeBron going to Golden State.

1:00:52Oh, Durant too?

1:00:53Bill Simmons:Can we put Davis in the Durant spot? I have Davis in there now. You have Davis going to Golden State? Yeah. So it's AD, LeBron. You got the Wiz get Butler and Golden State's 27 first. You're doing that. Done. Done. Yeah, you're locking that thing. Done. Take that. I'll take that right now. They figure out how to get LeBron with the mid-level. They bring Davis. They still have the 11th pick. They'll get a good player because this draft's really good. And we get the expendables. I had a fake sign and trade. I don't know if this is possible with the Harden. Who knows what the Harden extension is, but could you do a three-way where Durant goes to the Lakers, LeBron goes to the Cavs and Harden goes back to Houston and all the money just kind of works.

1:01:36Bill Simmons:And it's just kind of, it's just Durant's playing with Luca and Reeves. LeBron goes back to Cleveland, but is able to make like 35, 40 million a year. And then Harden just goes to Houston and kind of gives them something they need, which is a guy who can create offense. House likes that one. It's kind of funny. it's kind of funky it's a merry-go-round of old guys the problem is i think lebron and jj uh the only other like there's only a handful of coaches i can see lebron tying his his wagon to yeah but you can't they're not paying him more than i don't think 15 million a year that's crazy they got to pay reeves like 40 you still want to make the team better you have a window with luca now where you have to improve it i just don't i don't see them doing it i think another loser is the celtics who won a title in 2024 with a 27-year-old star and a 26-year-old star and now have twice, two years in a row, lost their team you'd most want to be in the East title.

1:02:37Bill Simmons:They lose it last year to Indiana. That's like, I'd rather be Indiana going forward with a Tatum injury. And then this year, you'd be like, oh, I'd rather be the Knicks. They're going to have clearly a three-year run. And the Celtics now have to deal with this juggernaut Knicks team. um miami probably getting yannis detroit probably getting somebody else and maybe they missed their window it's depressing i don't i don't need you guys to talk about the celtics i want to mention

1:03:02David Jacoby:that no uh bill you you've not mentioned the twitch streaming i mean we have to i've never seen someone sort of at alone in their house talking to their computer jeopardize their future with their franchise i've never seen anything like this and like fighting with steven A. I don't understand what's happening. He's proposing a neutral site Stephen A. debate. What is happening?

1:03:24Bill Simmons:By the way, I'd be excited for that. Yeah, I was thinking if there was a ringer staffer who started to do the Jalen Brown Twitch thing every night and was just kind of dancing with the line night after night, we probably would have had a phone call at this point like, hey, just check it in. Yeah, you know, I don't know if this is a great idea. Another loser Masai Harry who can we talk about he gave up Siakam and Ananobi who are two key pieces of the last two Eastern Finals teams that we have and he got quickly RJ Barrett and two firsts in the 20s see the new Joe Dumas house hey well he lost his job he got fired for it after but like they win the title because of the Kawhi trade and then Dumas style everything he does after that is kind of shaky I feel like it was fair for us you know the number of years leading up to this most recently completed season to be extremely critical of Toronto and the moves we were making.

1:04:22We were befuddled by them. The money they were spending on players. I mean, it's still, you know, Isaiah quickly is this... Isaiah. Emmanuel. Emmanuel, I know. Is now like the poster child for how you don't do stuff in this salary cap environment. You don't want$30 million six men.

1:04:40Bill Simmons:You don't want$30 million centers. Another loser is Adam Silver. because the James Dolan finals feud is here. This is going to be so fascinating to see how this works out. I don't think there's a lot of love lost. And I think usually when you have the finals in a location, the owners are usually helpful with the league. Not sure that's happening this time. I have two more. Vivek, Prokhorov, Robert Sarver, and Glenn Taylor have now passed James Dolan in the worst owners rankings in the 21st century. I think Dolan's out of the Mount Rushmore now I mean he handed over this team they made Eastern Finals last year they made the Finals this year he's out and I think it's Vivek Prokhorov Sarber, Glenn Taylor does that sound like the right list Jacob?

1:05:26Bill Simmons:Anybody else you'd throw in there? Off top of your head? Prokhorov was amazing he doesn't get enough credit

1:05:35David Jacoby:oh no yeah he was fantastic

1:05:37Bill Simmons:yeah we're going to spend money we're spending more money than any team ever than a year later I don't want to spend money anymore

1:05:42David Jacoby:He said he would get married if they didn't win the championship.

1:05:45Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:05:46David Jacoby:It's like, what?

1:05:47Bill Simmons:I think actually Glenn Taylor might have been the worst one, though, because he even sold his team for way less than what it was worth. He was just a terrible owner. He even fucked up the sale of his own franchise. And then tried to do a lawsuit over it. Yeah, and then tried to sue the guys that bought it. A dead loser. I'm wondering, should Prokhorov and Josiah be lumped together? because Josiah basically tried to run back the Prokhorov playbook with Harden and Kyrie. Josiah just seems like he's loyal to a front office that's not very good for some reason. But Josiah at least made runs. If Harden and Kyrie don't get hurt that year, they'd probably win the title, right?

1:06:26All I'll say is Reinsdorf would like a word. He'd like some consideration in this conversation. That's fair.

1:06:32Bill Simmons:Chicago's a pretty big market. The legacy kid owners, which we always have made fun of, being terrible. Legacy Kid Owners won in 23, 24, and 26. Celtics win in 24. 23, the Cronkies. Josh was running the Nuggets. And then 26, James Dolan. So there you go for that. All right, we're going to take a break. We're going to come back and have some good mailbag stuff for you guys.

1:06:58David Jacoby:For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tremphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tremphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremphaya, proper training is required. Tremphaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur.

1:07:39David Jacoby:Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about TREMFIA today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit TREMFIAradio.com.

1:07:58Bill Simmons:This episode is brought to you by HubSpot. You know why elite point guards make everyone better? It isn't just the no-look times. It's because they know everything. Who's hot? Who's tired? What the defense is doing? Which teammate needs a basket? Most businesses don't have that. Sales run one play. Marketing runs another. Nobody told service. The game plan has now changed. HubSpot gives you that point guard vision. One platform, full customer context. and that context is everything you need to win. Visit hubspot.com to learn more. All right, mailbag questions, you can send them to bspodcast33 at gmail.com.

1:08:41Bill Simmons:This is from Joe from Waterloo, Illinois. He said, with the incredible playoff run of these Knicks, we need an updated key to the city rankings. This is for if you win the title, you just own the city and get the key. And he said, right now, the rankings in his mind, Number one, Josh Allen. Number two, Jalen Brunson. Number three, Austin Matthews. Hockey. Number four, Caleb Williams. And number five, Jared Goff. Who's missing for you, Jacobes, in that one?

1:09:13I want to put Gino Smith in there.

1:09:20David Jacoby:What a phenomenal answer. Gino Smith for what team? This is very funny. This is very funny. Go ahead. The Jets. Okay. Think about it. Think about it. House? I had two guys. I had Anthony Edwards because, you know, Minnesota deserves somebody and there's nobody on their football team that you can point to. I mean, if Kyler Murray turns out to be, you know, some incredible version. But I, right. So I love Anthony Edwards. And then I feel like, you know, Joe Burrow could be in the conversation. Cincinnati, the football team has, you know, a long record. I tried to come up with somebody from Atlanta, but I don't, I don't think Atlanta gives enough of a shit about sports.

1:10:05Ironically, it'll be Anthony Edwards when he goes to Atlanta. Um, I had Anthony Edwards as well.

1:10:13Bill Simmons:I had Joe Burrows as well. I Joe Burrow. I had Devin Booker because the sons, even though they've been relevant every decade, have never actually won the title. And then I just put Browns QB TBD. if it ever happens for them, I think that's top three. We just don't know who that is. But I think right now, I like the Josh Allen one, Jalen Brunson two. I think that's right. Very good. Jalen Brunson wins the title for the Knicks. It's an all time. You're a hero. It's a standing O when you walk into a room. It's basically what Ortiz is like in Boston, where Ortiz, like even now, all these years later, just walks in.

1:10:50Bill Simmons:People start applauding.

1:10:52David Jacoby:I want to push back a little bit on Josh Allen. Yeah. Um, Give me Caleb Williams. Okay. Because it's Chicago, they just live and die with the Bears. They've never had a good quarterback somehow. They did win 40 years ago. The entire history of the franchise. Yeah, they did. And the Bills have a history. But I feel like just the big marketness of the city and when the Cubs won, what a big deal it was. And I've been to Buffalo games. I've been to Buffalo a few times. It's a small town. I just don't know what's going to impact the world the same way that a Bears Super Bowl win on the back of a quarterback instead of a defense at a running back would be big.

1:11:34When Jacoby says the Bills have a history, that's like saying Lamar Odom has tried drugs a couple times.

1:11:43Bill Simmons:The Bills have more than a history. The Bills are the fucking conjuring house. all right next question's from Kevin Jalen Brunson's success is often credited to his strong work ethic and mastery of fundamentals similar to Jake Shuttlesworth the father character and he got game trying to instill into his son Jesus at a young age that would be Rick Brunson do you think that Rick Brunson is a real life Jake Shuttlesworth Jake Shuttlesworth sans manslaughter

1:12:17Bill Simmons:so Jake Shuttlesworth I thought it was Shuttlesworth.

1:12:21David Jacoby:I thought it was Sands, too. Not Sands, but okay. Whatever.

1:12:25Bill Simmons:Or Sands. Sands? Sands. Sands, yeah.

1:12:27David Jacoby:Yeah, Sands.

1:12:28Bill Simmons:Sands, manslaughter. So do you think Jake, no manslaughter? Good Rick Brunson thing? Probably he wouldn't love it. But I do feel like that's one of the reasons Jalen Brunson is so tough, though. You got the feeling his dad was just, it's like a sports movie. It's like not as bad as Great Santini.

1:12:46David Jacoby:but when the whole thing is based on that one video it's that one video that we have of him dribbling up and they're filming it and like his dad is being such like a like a like a hard-o and he seems like little poor little jalen brunson is not having a good time in that video like he's he's not enjoying you know working out with his dad in that sunny day that video to me which it

1:13:06Bill Simmons:was not i didn't love it to be honest with you it's like me and zoe with soccer like some of the videos we have it's shuttlesworth i knew i was right he's shuttlesworth the remarkable thing to me with the Brunsons is Rick's role, which is enormous on the bench and in the organization, because I think he's had a hand, a steering hand in all of the team building that's taken place over the last three years that put this team into the finals. And he definitely had a hand in convincing his son to take an under market extension so that they could bring in this extra of talent. I mean, it's a fascinating documentary at some point after this run is over, maybe even after Brunson's career is over.

1:13:50Let's sit down and really talk to the Brunsons about what went down for this time.

1:13:54Bill Simmons:Well, you left out, they hired Rick Brunson as assistant coach before the summer that they were trying to sign Jalen Brunson to make him leave Dallas, which was an old college trick that they would do where you would sign the dad on the college team as you're trying to recruit the kid. So that worked too. I mean, Weston Leon played all the tricks with building this next team. They were working it. They get OG and Anobi knowing that he's going to be a free agent but also knowing that he's a CAA client that I have a relationship that they could probably talk him into staying and this is a relationships business, Chicoves.

1:14:27David Jacoby:Remember they went to Jalen Brunson's playoff games too. They sat there and just stared at him while he was on the maps. It was very obviously that they were interested. that I'm terrified that someone will investigate the Brunson deal because it just really makes no sense on paper unless, you know, perhaps you know, there's a tree planting company somewhere. Yeah, right. Could be a tree planting company in New York.

1:14:49Bill Simmons:Mark Cuban was really on a heater in the 2020s. He could add Brunson for four for 55 and somehow lost Brunson. Just loses him, right? Then decides to sell the team. He sells right before all the franchise valuations go flying up, sells for way less, sells it to this ownership that then, oh, and by the way, hired Nico Harrison before he sold to the ownership. And then Nico Harrison trades their best player. And now he's like, I don't, I can't believe he did that. It's like, you've, you're the reason they don't have Jalen Brunson and Luca Dachis. You're literally the reason. With the extra irony of him thinking that he was going to have some continuing decision-making role, some continuing input role.

1:15:37Which has never happened in sports history. Not only that, but it's been reported that Harrison was one of the people that immediately took a giant knife and stuck it right in Cuban's back on that idea.

1:15:47Bill Simmons:Really crazy. Amazing. Michael from Gower, Missouri, wants to know if the Thunder, if they win back-to-back, should retire Kawhi's jersey, considering he's basically the reason this entire run is happening because of the Paul George trade. Are there any other examples of players that never played for a team, but had such a massive success that they should have their Jersey retired anyway? First of all, it should be Kawhi and Paul George's jerseys together would be the move. I'm not against it. It's the most important moment in the history of the franchise that they did that trade. But I was thinking like a player who single-handedly caused a title for another team.

1:16:29Bill Simmons:and the only one I can really think of in the history of the NBA where you can literally say like, thanks to that guy, we won the title is Frank Selvey on the 1962 Los Angeles Lakers. Game seven, end of the game, has a nine footer. And if he makes it, the Lakers win the title and he missed it. Baseline jumper. It's like a 12 footer. And if he, and if he makes it Celtics lose to the Lakers, we don't have Jerry West, like, you know, as the character in the HBO series someday. There's been other moments where it was like, oh, if that hadn't happened, like Maynou fouling Dirk in 2006. But Frank Selv is the only one we could say if he makes that shot, the title changes.

1:17:09Bill Simmons:But here's my question for you guys. Could teams retire GMs, maybe not numbers, but the names of GM decisions from other teams that led to a bunch of titles for them. So I'm going to give you four. David Kahn, Minnesota, took Ricky Rubio and then Johnny Flynn over Steph Curry. And could Golden State like have a David Kahn ceremony thanking him for what he did? Same thing for Stu Inman, the Portland Trailblazers GM, who took Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan. Should probably be in the rafters in Chicago. Um, Bob Bass, Charlotte Cornets, um, GM 1996. The Lakers are like, we'll trade you Vlade Divac for the 13th pick.

1:17:57Bill Simmons:He's like, that sounds great. But the event is really good and trades them Kobe Bryant and they win five things. And then the last one, this is my favorite slick Leonard, the 1978 coach GM of the Indiana Pacers has the number one pick in 1978. and it's the draft where you could pick Larry Bird and wait a year for him to come into the league. He's playing for Indiana State. Indiana is in such bad shape as a franchise. They had a telethon that year to try to save the team. That's how broke they are. They don't take Larry Bird. They trade back from one to three with Portland for Johnny Davis in the third pick.

1:18:34Bill Simmons:And then their fans think, oh, they traded back because we're taking Bird. Nope, they took Rick Robey. and then the Celtics got him sick. So you could argue Slick Leonard to GM, but Jacobes, do you like the idea of retiring GM, helpful GM versus too mean?

1:18:49David Jacoby:I don't like the idea of the opposing GM. No, no, because it's in the Raptors forever. You're going to have to tell your Greg. It's like, what is that doing there? Who was Slick Leonard? You have to explain. I like the idea of just having a night. One of my favorite moments in sports history was when the Red Sox fans in Fenway were cheered Mariano Rivera when he was introduced. and he tipped his cap. It was one of my favorite moments in sports history because he was so cool about it. He's already a champion in the Hall of Fame and a legend. He had a sense of humor about it. I think it should be a night like that.

1:19:18David Jacoby:One night where it's David Khan night in Golden State and he comes out there at halftime and they do a little ceremony and they cheer him. They interview him. So David, you took two point guards in 09 and somehow neither of them were Steph Curry. Let's walk through it. What a great moment for us. It feels like a celebration instead of a permanent fixture inside the arena that's there forever.

1:19:41Bill Simmons:Jack from Atlanta writes, I'm consistently amazed by Adam Silver's inability to have a feel for public perception of the league. I don't think that's fair, but the playoffs are the most important time of the season. The constant talk among my friends is flopping. Why can't we shame these players for being uncool? Why can't they come up with something to stop this? This has been a topic on a lot of shows. I've been thinking about this a lot, and it's weird. It wasn't an SGA moment. It was that moment when maybe it was A.J. Mitchell, whoever was somebody who was setting a screen and they went flying and they called an offensive foul and the guy said in the screen on the Spurs.

1:20:20Bill Simmons:Oh, yeah. And then they, it was, yeah, J. Will. And then they did the wide shot, the overhead shot of him bumping into the guy and then flailing. And I wonder like when they added the flagrant foul point system, which most famously came back to haunt Draymond in 2016, when he had to miss game five because he had too many points. Would you guys be cool if they had like a flopping point penalty system where the league just announced the next day, we find SGA one flopping point for third quarter or whatever. And it's just like you get to 15 points, you miss the next game. Like, would people sign up for that?

1:20:59Bill Simmons:Because I actually think I would. Jacoby's shaking his head no.

1:21:02David Jacoby:I love it. I absolutely love it. In the same way that they upgraded the Plumlee foul, There's some, you know, smart people review the tape. In the moment, you can't, because they do have like a flopping foul. Right, right. Real time, the refs, I mean, if you can't ask the refs to evaluate that in real time. So I think they could do some sort of like, even if it's like the two minute report, like we reviewed the tape and, you know, there's seven foul, I mean, flops, even if it's just like public shaming. But one thing I love about what's happening is, as a Knick fan, I've already grown a really strong hatred of both the Spurs and the Thunder.

1:21:35David Jacoby:So whoever makes it through, I already have a nice foundation of I fucking can't stand you guys that's just ready to boil over. Well, ironically, Brunson does it too.

1:21:47Bill Simmons:He's more on. Brunson does it on picks and defense really more than offense. SGA does it more on offense. Why are you making a face? Brunson does do it. I'm a smidge confused. Confused with what? I mean, I think that Brunson plays pretty physical. And I mean, the stuff on defense and coming off the screen, I'm sure we can find those examples. He's a flopper. He's a flopper. I watch all the games. On that end? Yeah, he tries to sell offensive foul picks. It's his big thing. I have a Brunson flopping theory.

1:22:22David Jacoby:One of my theories is that he has those little braids, those little twists, because when he jerks his head back, it looks more violent because his hair flies. It's a visual tool.

1:22:31Bill Simmons:I like that. I like this. So would you sign up for the 15-point flop system? Just get a point? Anything that communicates to the NBA viewing public us that the league is taking this seriously is going to be a good thing. I think it would be fine if they just called two flops every first quarter. They had the opportunity during this playoff run, this stretch where it's really become prominent. And we know that the league has the capacity for changing how it calls games over the course of regular season into playoffs. They allow more physical play. And even the rotating referee crews, you could just call flops.

1:23:12I can't think of a game where a flop was called in the last couple weeks.

1:23:17Bill Simmons:They don't call offensive three seconds when the guy has the ball for too long when he's posting up. They call that like three times a year. Remember they added that rule? you can't just slowly post up for 10 seconds and they're like you can't do it's got to be for shangun's like the only one that gets called for that i would love a flopping thing i think it's a good idea this episode is brought to you by michelob ultra the official beer partner of the nba with playoffs around the corner now's a good time to create a tournament of your own compete to see who can predict the best playoff series or put your own basketball skills to the test.

1:23:49Bill Simmons:And the prize, a crisp Michelob Ultra. Plus, they're giving fans a chance to win courtside tickets, prizes, and more. Michelob Ultra. Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at MichelobUltra.com slash courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside 2526. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. Residents 21+. Begins on October 1st, 2025. Ends on June 30th, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at MichelobUltra.com slash courtside for free entry, re-entry deadlines and prizes and details. This episode is brought to you by PayPal. You know a clutch move when you see one, a no-look pass, a buzzer beater.

1:24:26Bill Simmons:Well, imagine if your wallet could pull off moves like that. That's PayPal. Right now, you can find offers from hundreds of brands like Sony, Allbirds, and Vitor. You can save offers before you check out, earn unlimited rewards, plus you can add those rewards on top of credit card points. Now that is clutch. Download the PayPal app today, save those offers and start scoring rewards terms and exclusions apply see paypal.com slash rewards terms credit card points subject to issuers terms and conditions chan from new york wants to know if spurs thunder is supposed to be the main event would the nicks be the money in the bank champs waiting in the wings to take advantage of a compromised opponent this is great like a great wrestling analogy just let these two teams beat each other up and the Knicks are waiting, like the series ends and they're coming in right away.

1:25:18Bill Simmons:I always get this email about whether money in the bank would work in the NBA. And the answer is obviously no, but it would be amazing. Like you finish a series and then all of a sudden, the next team just comes in. Oh, they're cashing in. They're cashing the suitcase. All right, House, you're going to love this one. This is from Joe from far Northern Chicago suburbs. Okay. Conspiracy bill. He starts it. Scott Foster's public-facing NBA referee profile page, and this is true because I looked it up, lists Shameless and Ozark as his two favorite television shows. I haven't watched Shameless, but Ozark is definitely about illegal money laundering schemes and organized crime.

1:25:57Bill Simmons:Wikipedia tells me Shameless is about people running scams and committing crimes to get money. How is this possible that he put these two as his two favorite TV shows? it's from Joe well he's living vicariously that feels like a bit at that point it could be he should have added your friends and neighbors as his third one people steal it from their neighbors Jacobi's like afraid to talk

1:26:23David Jacoby:oh no I love your friends and neighbors I'm so in on your friends and neighbors that Birch billionaire character I'm absolutely in love with her I can't wait for her to come back and ruin our guy's life I'm in on friends and neighbors so hard

1:26:35Bill Simmons:on that same page It says Scott Foster's favorite movie is Braveheart.

1:26:41David Jacoby:No one's favorite movie is Braveheart. Scott Foster's is. No one. He's lying.

1:26:47Bill Simmons:Liam Manley writes in. I sent this one to you guys. Caruso's 22-point game five has to be top three role player ever, Corey Niguadala. So he points out, I created the 42 club, which was points, rebounds, and assists in the playoffs. And if they add up to 42 or above odds are you're a pretty special player. And it's been pretty reliable over the years, especially because I, I did 42 exactly because it was the best way to leave out Carl Malone. Um, he's saying, could we have a 21 club? If you average over 21 points, rebounds and assists multiple seasons, you're not a role player. And if you're under it, you are, I I'm tweaking this to playoffs and I like the under 21.

1:27:31Bill Simmons:I wonder if we could go a little lower. I sent you guys a bunch of stats. I have some role player questions for you, though. Can you be one of the best four guys on your team and be a role player, Jacoby?

1:27:46David Jacoby:I'd say you can't be one of the four most offensively productive. Best is a weird word to use because sometimes role players are the best because they're great defenders and great screen setters and assist guys. but I did consider this and I don't like the minutes restriction stuff because sometimes role players are like starters that play the entire time. You know what I mean?

1:28:10Bill Simmons:Bruce Bowen was in 05-07, 36 minutes a game but was clearly a role player.

1:28:16David Jacoby:Yes, but he averaged like six and a half points. Yeah, six points, three rebounds, one assist. Yeah, yeah. Two eye gouges and one step on the foot. One kick in the balls, two hits in the face. One kick in the balls, yes. I also don't consider Iguodala a role player. He was a role player for that championship team. But if you're a former star and you used to have your own team, that's not a role player to me. That's sort of like a fading star accepting a new role.

1:28:42Bill Simmons:So the other case for Iguodala not being a role player is he was the fourth best guy on that team.

1:28:47David Jacoby:In the finals, MVP.

1:28:48Bill Simmons:Curry, Klay, Draymond, Iguodala is the fourth best guy at worst. So can you be the role player if you're the fourth best guy on that team? That's a problem with the Caruso role player candidacy because you could argue he's one of the four best guys in this team.

1:29:00David Jacoby:Well, you could also argue that he's been forced to be one of the four best guys in the team due to injury.

1:29:04Bill Simmons:Right. And then Michael Cooper was the other one who might have been the fourth best Laker during his whole run, but was a role player. What do you think, House? The definition part of this is where the true intrigue comes in to me because it's hard. How many rings? If we're doing an all-time list, do you have to be on a team? I feel like you need two to be level one. yeah because that's helpful that that crosses that means trevor ariza is off the list that means jason terry is off the list that means kendrick perkins is off the list bill walkman he only had the one yeah there's yeah and then it's like is there a quality threshold jacoby just mentioned negodala like manu manu no both manu manu manu both manu was too good he can't be a role player.

1:29:52Bill Simmons:He's, I think, one of the best 100 basketball players of all time. Hall of Famer? But if you look at his numbers and how he was used, you can say, well, he's a six-man, he's a role player, but I just don't think he was. And then do you need the two titles? So that moves us more. To me, the best way to figure this out is to look at guys that we know are role players, which is clearly Robert Horry and the Lakers and the Spurs. Interestingly, Rockets Robert Horry, not a role player, but arguably the third best guy on that team. Sure. I like that. Mario Eli, 22 minutes a game, seven points, three rebounds, and two assists in their two title seasons.

1:30:29Bill Simmons:That, to me, is a role play. Caruso, I think, makes it. It's basically 10-3 the last couple years playing or whatever. Philly Bobby Jones is a good one. James Posey in 06 and 08 is another good one. We lose Boris Diaw. Steve Kerr, 19 minutes a game, 6-1 and 2. and then Fisher is a great one. 30 minutes a game, 9, 2, and 3. And I guess we have to put Bruce Bowen in. So would you say instead of the 42 club, maybe it's like the 17 club? It's got to be like 17 and under for points, rebounds, and assists. You're an official role player in that, right? Yeah. Let me ask about Ron Harper. That's another good one.

1:31:16Ended up with multiple rings. Bulls, Ron Harper. Yeah. and Lakers Ron Harper. I mean, it's kind of important. True. To both. He ended up with 153 playoff games, five rings, and he's just under 21. He's 11.6 points, 4.6 rebounds, 3.9 assists. And was out there in the crush time a bunch.

1:31:37David Jacoby:I've got one for you. Yeah.

1:31:39Bill Simmons:JaVale McGee. Did he have how many titles though? Multiple titles. No, Lakers and Warriors. Nuggets. Oh, that's right. He had the Warriors one, yeah.

1:31:50David Jacoby:And he did kind of play for them. Yeah, he played a role. To me, a role player, you kind of do one thing. You know what I mean? Ron Harper might be too good at everything, kind of. Yeah, maybe so. That's why Caruso, it's like, I'm a defender, and if you leave me open, I'll hit a three, and I'll do some energy stuff in transition. I like a guy like McGee because he's our big backup that comes in and blocks shots, and he's kind of weird, and he rebounds. And it's like Tristan Thompson on the Cavs. It's like, I have a role. Like no one's going to ever give me the ball. I'm only doing this. Yeah. Yeah.

1:32:21David Jacoby:Like that, that to me is like a role player. It's kind of like, you know, when you see it, he's a role.

1:32:26Bill Simmons:Important spinoff question. This question, Jacob's when we played pickup hoops together for two years at USC, was I a role player? Yes.

1:32:36David Jacoby:I was old. Yes. Your impact was more just like, you're kind of like a coach on the floor. And remember that guy in the Lakers you were talking about who hit the baseline shot that I had no idea who you were talking about. Selvey, Fred Selvey, whatever that guy's name is. Frank Selvey. I would have made it. Frank Selvey. I was like, I hope he doesn't ask me a question about Frank Selvey. I don't know who his man is. But 9 to 12 feet on the baseline is just Bill's spot. 18. That is his spot. 17. 17. You are my boss. You are my boss, so yeah. 17? 16? Yeah, yeah.

1:33:09Bill Simmons:What about breaking up the two-on-ones?

1:33:12David Jacoby:I mean, you were great at that, but if I was the number one option, we were losing.

1:33:18Bill Simmons:I needed to be the number four option, which made me a role player.

1:33:21David Jacoby:Yes, and then we're winning and we're staying on the court for a while.

1:33:23Bill Simmons:John Colleen sent a Sam Perkins question on role players asking if Sam Perkins was the Jerry West of role players. Mavericks, late 80s, Lakers, early 90s, Supersonics, Pacers. Sam Perkins was a role player on the 96 Sonics and 00 Pacers that made finals. he was kind of better than a role player in the 93 Sonics and then the 91 Lakers, he was probably the third best player but then also in Dallas he played in five conference finals for four different teams and three finals really interesting Sam Perkins career sent me on a deep dive 167 playoff games for Sam 35th all time and kind of had all the phases of Sam and then finally crested with the Indiana he looked like he had just smoked a bowl He weighed like 300 pounds, but could still hit a three at any time.

1:34:16Bill Simmons:But really fun run for him. Hadn't thought about Sam Perkins in a while, guys. I feel the same way. And I always like, you know, my mind's eye is like, oh, he's talented. I expect him to make the right play. His hoops IQ was always in the right place. But maybe I'm only thinking about the end of his career. Well, he was on the Lakers. So one of the best game ones ever, which I mentioned to you, I think I mentioned to you the last time we did this was that Bulls Lakers game one, MJ misses the game winner, bounces around and goes out. But Perkins made the three. That was the game winning play they set up for.

1:34:52Bill Simmons:Magic found him. St. Perkins, really good. All right. Really, really important question from Corey from St. George, Utah. In your book of basketball, you debated a team of five of the same player versus any other duplicated five. would a team of five victor wembanyamas be the ultimate team that would beat any other version of five other guys meaning could five wembys beat five lebrons could five wembys beat five iversons etc etc jacoby's shaking his head absolutely not no way same way yeah i would

1:35:24David Jacoby:say i think that's always i'm one of the evolved like the superstars he's probably one of the worst to clone four more times and put out there because he is so tall. Who's bringing up the ball? Wemby. Yeah, that's the problem.

1:35:38Bill Simmons:Wemby number five is bringing up the ball.

1:35:40David Jacoby:No, no, no, no, no, no. Chico, I actually

1:35:44Bill Simmons:think I completely disagree with you. I think five Wemby's kills everyone. You play zone with the five Wemby's. How do you score? What are you talking about? How am I getting a shot off against five Wemby's? all they're doing is playing zone. How am I shooting anything?

1:36:02David Jacoby:All right. I have a counter. I'm five Michael Jordans. I agree with this. That's the answer. You guys would take five Michael Jordans

1:36:09Bill Simmons:over five Wembees?

1:36:11David Jacoby:Definitely. Bill, I'm going to allow you to retract this statement.

1:36:15Bill Simmons:I'm not retracting it.

1:36:16David Jacoby:Wembees seven foot six. Five Michael Jordans? What are you talking about? Against five Wembees? What are you even talking about? Peak Michael Jordan? Michael Air Jeffrey Jordan?

1:36:27Bill Simmons:we have to break this out as a social clip I can't believe this but the one Wemby couldn't post up in game five against Oklahoma City yeah he gets tired in the second quarter so you're saying one of the five Michael Jordans is pushing Matt but then we'll just bring in another Wemby to get closer it's a feature

1:36:50David Jacoby:he doesn't have enough ass five Jordans You need somebody who's good at everything. Jack of all trades. Wemby's a very unique player because of his height. He needs guards and people to set him up. He doesn't, like, honestly, he doesn't even create his own shots. The best Wemby is rolling to the basket, and then Steph Castle just blindly throws the ball up in the air, and he either tips it in or tips it off the rim to himself and dunks it.

1:37:13Bill Simmons:See, I think five LeBrons would have a better chance than five Jordans. Jordan was 6 '6". It's a good argument. Now we're having a foot smaller.

1:37:20David Jacoby:Instead of the LeBron-Jordan debate, we're having LeBron in his clothes. five Lembys versus five Lembys.

1:37:26Bill Simmons:Five LeBrons. Five James Hardens would have some trouble. I feel like. Because that's the other thing. Five Currys could just like bomb threes and try to beat them with math, right? It was like, we don't care how tall you are. I'm just going to shoot 30 footers. I love it. Matt from Toronto is exhausted by the term generational. It's supposed to be once in a generation. now he's hearing it's a generational draft, multiple generational prospects. He said in his eyes, only two generational players are in the NBA right now. LeBron, whose generation is ending, and Wemby's, whose generation is starting.

1:38:06Bill Simmons:He wants to retire the word generational for everyone else. Let's not use it anymore. I would throw in Joker as a generational offensive player, which I think he is. So I would say we have three people that the generational word can get thrown around. Other than that, I think he's right. I didn't even think I'm going to look in the mirror. It's like, how can you leave Curry out? Generational. Oh, you're right. He's still in the league. Steph Curry. Steph Curry, generational shooter. So there's four. Not Durant. Generational scorer. He's going to go down as the most prolific scorer. He's a generational scoring forward.

1:38:44David Jacoby:Generational tweeter.

1:38:45Bill Simmons:And Durant's kind of the line for this. Generational scoring forward. What does that even mean?

1:38:51David Jacoby:So Curry shooter. generational you don't because i just don't know when it starts or when it ends it's kind of like when you go to a store and they have the sign on the door that says like be back in five minutes i'm like when did you when did the five minutes start and when is it going to end and how do you know when i'm going to see the sign so it's like the generations are like bleed into each other is what i feel like like there's no defined beginning and end of the generation sort of just like a

1:39:12Bill Simmons:sliding 20 years through time would you say house is a generational leader yes i agree with this i

1:39:20David Jacoby:I would say all time.

1:39:21Bill Simmons:I think he is too, because anytime over the course of my life, when people who didn't know house ate with house, there's always that point in the meal when they just become impressed that house is still eating and that he's picking stuff off other plates and it's been going on forever. I think, which makes him generational.

1:39:38David Jacoby:And he doesn't draw a lot of attention to it either. He's not performative with his overeating. You know what I mean? He's not talking about it. It's just sort of just slowly like, Oh, Hey, no, like the guy will come by and be like, Oh, you're done with the egg rolls. Oh no, no, no, I'll take that up.

1:39:51Bill Simmons:Do you think I'm a generational playing blackjack at 430 in the morning guy or no? No. Okay. House, this question's for you from Cody K. He's a longtime Wizards fan. Oh, great job, Cody. He's lived through the draft picks of people like Jan Vesely. I'm familiar. He's lived through overpaying Otto Porter. He did that. He's lived through playing and coaching of Randy Whitman. That happened. Losing on purpose. Sure. He's excited about the draft, and he's seen recent rumors of the Wizards getting in on the Greek freak sweepstakes. Am I losing my mind thinking a lineup of Trey, Trey Johnson, Bilal, AD, and the freak could work.

1:40:34Bill Simmons:He didn't even mention your number one pick in the draft. Plus, we have dullest to grease flights, he wants to point out, too. No, this is true. You still haven't talked yourself into this. It's outrageous. It's preposterous. I understand the season that we're in now with the NBA where we have to go into this drama queen mode because there isn't anything to talk about from the games. But there is no scenario under which it makes a lick of sense for Giannis to come to Washington. None whatsoever. Jacoby, where do you want Giannis to go? Yeah. What's your team? What's the most fun for content Giannis team?

1:41:11David Jacoby:Expendables is off the table.

1:41:13Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:41:13David Jacoby:Most fun for content is going to be the Nets. just like a terrible Nets team and they win like 30 games and he's just pissed but he's in New York and there's like rumors about him being out in clubs and stuff it's just like and he's just getting hammered he's just like God I was actually better off in Milwaukee than I am here in Brooklyn that would be for content would be the funniest just because of the spotlight the New York market puts on you and like you think it's bad with your roster in Milwaukee like welcome welcome to Clowney and Joman

1:41:42Bill Simmons:I think Miami would be the most fun Heat culture versus you also have to sign my two brothers if I'm coming. We do that whole thing. That could be fun. Jason from New Jersey has a Greek freak thing. He says with Wemby doing what he's doing, do we have to rescind Giannis' nickname, Greek freak or the freak? Next to Wemby, he doesn't seem to be freakish. Not saying we need to call Wemby the French freak, but I don't think we can have other players called freak if Wemby's in the league. I disagree. I'm fine with Giannis is the freak. We've called him the freak. Wemby's the alien or the UFO. Yeah, he's not a freak.

1:42:21Bill Simmons:He's more than a freak. Yeah, because he hasn't earned anything yet. Giannis earned the freak. He didn't just arrive when we looked at him and started calling him the freak just because of how he looked. It's because of how he played, his force of will, his dominant style. That's what really, he filled out the freak. Right now, it is fine to call Wemby an alien or from a different whatever. because that's all that we can ascribe to him. There's nothing... It's a great run. I'm thrilled for the Spurs, and let's see how this plays out before we start giving him any nicknames other than recognizing that he's a giant person.

1:42:55Would five Giannis' beat five Wembeys? Yes. Oh, phenomenal. I agree with Jacob's strong.

1:43:02David Jacoby:I don't think five Wembeys is a strong team. I really don't think five Wembeys is a strong team. I could beat five Wembeys. I love this. I can't wait to see what people think of this. I can't believe you're going to... I want Freak to get to a Western Conference team and dunk on Wemby repeatedly. I think there's a real... He's mad he took his corner? Yeah, exactly right. Not the Freak corner, but who's the biggest, baddest big guy? It's like what's happening in Euphoria right now

1:43:34Bill Simmons:is Zendaya and Sidney Sweeney. No? I haven't watched one episode, but I already know which way I'm leaning on this one. Well, one of them has been naked the whole season, so I don't know how you missed it. Yes, and I know which one that is, so there you go. Marcus is a huge Suns fan, and he's still having trouble, especially with the recent Jalen Brunson thing, digesting the Suns 2018 draft. and he said when they took DeAndre Ayton over Luka Doncic, it was so monumental, it overshadowed everything else that happened that night. The Suns had three of the first 31 picks. They took with the first pick DeAndre Ayton over Luka Doncic.

1:44:18Bill Simmons:With the 10th pick, they took Mikhail Bridges over Shea Gilgis-Alexander. And with the 31st pick, they took Ilya Kobo over Jalen Brunson. I did not realize this. Ilya Kobo.

1:44:31David Jacoby:Ilya Kobo not familiar with him

1:44:35Bill Simmons:so they passed up Luka Doncic SGA and Brunson all in a row and they all got taken either the next pick or two picks later pretty interesting how's that like broke house I'm trying to think who the GM was for that because that's that's the kind of stuff the Sixers have been doing for a decade now which I really enjoyed Kevin from Malden diehard Celtic fan along with all his buddies and said if it's the Knicks Thunder series, who do we root for? We're very split. None of us like New York teams. None of us want to root for the Knicks. That's how fucking annoying the Thunder are to watch, Kevin from Alden writes.

1:45:15Bill Simmons:You have a bunch of Boston guys rolling with the Knicks over the floppers. Jesus Christ, I hope Wemby and the Spurs pull it off. Wow. I kind of feel the same way. I probably, the basketball fan in me would probably root for the Knicks storyline, even though it's a New York team and New York will be insufferable for years after.

1:45:34David Jacoby:You can hate the Knicks, but it's hard to hate these Knicks. It really is. Even if you're from Boston. I get it. You hate the uniform, but the players and the vibes, and they're going to be underdogs to the floppers, I think you have to go Knicks even if you're in Boston. What do you think, guys? It's a great point. I agree with you on this.

1:45:53Bill Simmons:Yeah. Okay. This is a good one. Maybe we end on this. speaking of flopping from Liam from Minneapolis. He recently watched the 1997 movie, Double Team, starring Dennis Rodman and Jean-Claude Van Damme. And was thinking, what current NBA player action star duo should we get to remake this? And was wondering if it should be Anthony Edwards and Jason Statham. I had an idea. They remake Double Team as Double Flop. with SGA and Statham. That's phenomenal. I made this on CGI. You did that. Yeah, look at you. I make a double flop movie poster for me and they did it. Double flop. It can't be. Statham is too legit.

1:46:46You need a worse action hero.

1:46:49Bill Simmons:If SGA was an action movie person, his move would be he's in fight scenes and he would be flopping and the people would be just completely confused. Disarmed. He would dive into them with like an elbow thing and go flying and they'd be like, what the fuck did that? And then Statham would just come in and punch him in the face. That would be the move. You don't agree with that?

1:47:09David Jacoby:I was so scared to Google double team movie Dennis Rodman because who knows what the results are going to be. I'm sure there were some double teams filmed during this film. You guys got it. Those two guys together. Yeah, I felt like we should just be careful. I felt like treading carefully here was the right move.

1:47:25Bill Simmons:You guys got really scared there for a second. I mean, the action hero bit. That's all I have for you. Statham might be too big. So the biggest thing we argued about was five Wembeys versus five Michael Jordans.

1:47:38David Jacoby:One of your worst takes. One of your worst takes, honestly.

1:47:41Bill Simmons:I'll be interested to see what America thinks. I have a zone defense of five 7 '6 guys.

1:47:48David Jacoby:It's Michael Jordan versus a 22-year-old French guy who shot four for 15 because he couldn't get in the lane against Oklahoma. He took one shot the first half. He took one lane against Isaiah Hardenstein. Listen, if I was actually

1:48:04Bill Simmons:picking this in my life, depending on it, I'm picking five Michael Jordans against everybody. I just have the most confidence. I'm picking five Isaiah Hartensteins over five Wimbys.

1:48:12David Jacoby:Yes, five Isaiah Hartensteins over five Wimbys. That's a good matchup.

1:48:16Bill Simmons:Before we go, House, who do you want with the number one pick? AJ. It hasn't changed. It's AJ. AJ all day. I love that guy. The whole long story that the Utah feature writer did about what's the deal with Darren Peterson's cramping situation. Did you read that? Did not. Don't care. You should read it because it will make you maybe not want to take him as much and move maybe more toward AJ. I already, who? I already said AJ. I want AJ. You know, he reclassified as an 8th grader house. did eighth grade twice. He's a little older than you think. AJ. Don't care. I watched him play basketball. He's fucking awesome.

1:48:56Bill Simmons:He is really good. I hope you take AJ. Me too. Who do you want them to take, Jacobes?

1:49:01David Jacoby:AJ. Or Caleb. I'm staying away from Peterson. If I'm like the number four pick, who's that, the Jazz? It's the Bulls. Oh, the Bulls, yeah. I'd be terrified if Peterson drops me. I kind of, your hands are tied. You have to take him. Wow. I'd be terrified to drop Peterson. I really would. I'd be terrified. I watched some of those games. It was just like weird. He'd have 22 in the first half and just be like, yeah, I'm out.

1:49:21Bill Simmons:I'm done. He's one of the all-time terrified to take him, terrified not to take him guys that we've had in the draft. Either way, you're just scared for the result. You should get Dominic from Dubuque to ask that question in the next mailbag. Dominic from Dubuque? Who's that? I don't know. I just came up with that. Feels like a guy that might have a question about the all-time list for guys. you're damned if you do, Dan, if you don't. Hopefully Dominic, if there's a Dominic in Dubuque, hopefully he'll run in. Alright guys, it was great to see both of you. Jacobes, we'll watch and listen to you on the mismatch.

1:50:00Bill Simmons:And food news, Julia Lippman, House, Fairway, Rollin, US Open coming up. Yeah, we got the memorial. We're in Jack's place next week. That's going to be exciting. That's always a good test. Are you going to bet on World Cup or no? Yeah, I've already bet on Norway over Iran. That was one. I'm just doing whatever Anthony DiBondo tells me to do. So I'll be betting. I'm almost definitely betting against the U.S. when they play a good team. But I'm just listening to DiBondo. Definitely betting on the World Cup. Already betting Norway over Iran. DiBondo, I think, might have had an aneurysm today because Sinner lost in the French Open.

1:50:37Bill Simmons:He was like a minus 12 ,000 favorite or something. And he got heat struck and ended up losing. No, French Open is wide open. Anyway. All right, guys. Good to see you. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Jacobian House. Thanks to Mahoney. Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. Don't forget to watch 2001, a space odyssey before the end of the weekend because that's going to be the next rewatchables. Enjoy the weekend. I will see you next time here on the Bill Simmons podcast. Must be 21 plus in president in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in president in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming.

1:51:13Bill Simmons:Give them a problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLE or 1-800-MY-REC. Call 888-79-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York for Louisiana. Call 877-770-7867. This message is brought to you by Mariner. It takes the right team to help develop an athlete's talents. Managing your money works the same way. You've ever thought, am I getting the most out of my financial plan? You're ready for Mariner. With Mariner, you get an advisor backed by a full team of specialists.

1:51:57Bill Simmons:So everything's working together toward your goals. Take the next step in your financial journey with Mariner. Investment advisory services offered through Mariner LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. For more information, visit Mariner.com.