Giannis to Miami! An Urgent Gathering Pod With Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier

21:38And that's it.

21:39Bill Simmons:We're not throwing in more stuff. We don't care that Miami's desperate. We're not. And, you know, whether it was Hugo, whether it was Shireman, whether it was more than the 27th pick and an extra pick, I don't know what the ultimate final offer was, or we have to take Kuzma back. I don't think they want to do any of that stuff. I think they like their team. And the Jalen PCR, you know, it's nothing major. I can't, there's no smoking gun with this. I can't really point to one specific thing, but I think it's just a bunch of small things that seem like they've added up. You know, doing the Twitch every day, starting shit with Stephen A.

22:19Bill Simmons:Smith, talking about how last year was the best year of his career. Some of that Jalen, Jason, whose team is this stuff, maybe they wanted to, maybe this was the easiest way to avoid it. It's the, Sierra, it's honestly the reason I haven't let you host the rewatchables for six months because I don't want to come back and then you're just kind of side-eyeing me the whole time and being like, I don't know. Pod ran better when I was running this thing. My favorite pods I've ever done is when I did Blade Runner without Bill. I don't know. Did you guys hear that Blade Runner pod? but I personally do not think they would have entertained this at the end of the season.

22:57Bill Simmons:I think something definitely shifted as we went along. And, you know, I just think, I'm not convinced he's going to be on the team in October, Bear. I would say it's 50-50. I mean, especially considering that they've been down this road with him, what, like 17 times where they've almost traded him. Like I was talking to someone earlier today, like remember the time where they almost traded him for Anthony Davis on the Pelicans. Like we're talking about Trey Murphy now, where it's like the Kyrie, no rules rule thing. Like that was like 10 years ago. And he was always so hardheaded that I think he was the type of person who didn't want to get into this situation.

23:32But now it's just compounded time and time and again. And after he has this great year, you're doing it again. It seems pretty unsolvable at this point. I think the good thing, I think you're right about like standing with the offer that they gave the Bucs, where it's just like take Jalen and like some picks and that's it. because Jalen is still really good. The problem is he's probably best suited for a really good team, but not like a championship contending team. He's probably best suited for where he is now as a 1B on a really good team. But there's just so many of these other teams like that.

24:00The Blazers, for instance, my hometown team here, like he would fit really well there. I mean, the Clippers, the Hawks. And so I think that they could still -

24:08Bill Simmons:Yeah, there's four good ones. They could still get a lot for him, but I do wonder if the Celtics, I'm curious what you think about this, would be willing to take a step back after being so pronounced about taking a step forward here and actually prioritize picks or just young players so you can retool rather than just like push the button. Let's win tomorrow. Yeah, Tatum's, I think, going to be 28 next year. Chisholm just bought the team. So new owner not really being like, hey, let's take our time. Like he wants to be good. They lost in seven games to a Philly team that immediately the tires came flying off the car the moment they were celebrating.

24:44Bill Simmons:We came up against the team of destiny, Bill, and couldn't do anything about that. It's too bad. The financial doping of James Dolan and the Brunson mafia. CR, if they had just benched and beat in that first game, you could have come back. Sure, that would have gone over great. They just listened to you. You said it that day. I know. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Ads. Ever invest in something that seemed incredible at first, but didn't live up to the hype? Well, marketers know the feeling. They optimize for the numbers that look great. Impressions, reach, reacts. but when they don't show revenue well, that's not such a great conversation with the CFO.

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25:57Bill Simmons:Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced wifi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 US-based support, millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Service is not available in all areas. So from a Celtic standpoint, there's lots of ways this could go. There's also the way it could go where they just bring them back. They have a 27 million trade exception. They have a bunch of their picks.

26:36Bill Simmons:They have some moves to make. but it's a bizarre situation I will say with the Boston fans in my life and even Boston fans online wherever you want to look where Celtic fans were I don't think anybody was like we gotta get Giannis, holy shit he's available I think they were real concerns and I think there's real love for the Jays in the last 10 years like Jalen, they drafted him 10 years ago I think tomorrow they won a title with the guy he's been in six conference finals I was looking at once that, I was looking, because I honestly thought there was a point today where I really thought that he was going to get traded.

27:16There's only 11 guys ever

27:20Bill Simmons:who have played 125 playoff games and averaged 19 a game. And the other guys are LeBron, Duncan, Kawhi, Wade, Magic, Larry, Kobe, Tatum, Worthy, and Klay Thompson. Like, he's had a pretty great career. you know and I still feel like he's getting better I thought last year was the best he's ever looked so if you're the south it's like hey Tatum's gonna be healthy we've won with these guys maybe we have to tweak our style a little bit but um I don't think this is a disaster now the question is does Jalen do a six-hour twitch stream tomorrow CR and right what how does he handle the next 48 hours I think we find out what we find out the next 48 hours whether this was going to be you might get traded for Giannis, but you are getting traded or whether it was we might walk the dog here with you and Giannis, but that doesn't mean we don't believe in you.

28:13There's something kind of weird about the fact that they withstood six, seven years of can these two guys play together and win together, win a title, and then and now we're going to trade you guys after we've established ourselves as a powerhouse in the East. and I do think that there's a little bit too much let's tear up all the plans that we made over the years going on right now because nobody knows how to like counteract the newly emergent powers in the NBA and it's just like Boston's really good. They're going to be really good next year if they run back the same team. They can do some tactical tweaks that will easily get them into the mix here but I feel like Zach tried to kind of shoot you a little bail on Sunday night and he was like, you know only sources are saying this like i don't know what if jalen's not even in this trade and you're like jalen's in the trade so obviously there's like a there's a some truth to the matter

29:05Bill Simmons:that boston that was reported all over the place this yeah so i'm saying it for at this point at this point i'm just saying it seems like he's done in boston to me but you know stranger things have happened or very or maybe this was their way of like maybe like a scared straight type thing Remember that show in the, what was that, in the 70s or 80s? See what it would have been like if you had gone to Milwaukee? Yeah, see? You could have been in Milwaukee. That would have sucked. How's this looking? Listen, Bill, like you, I'm a bit of a hot-blooded, mostly Italian person. I feel like there are times where I've probably held a grudge a little bit too long.

29:44But, like, I've had to get over it, right? Yeah. I just feel like at a certain point, like, maybe this is his best recourse. because like, is he really better off going to a lesser team and just like having his way? Because all the teams that we mentioned, aside from maybe the Pelicans, are going to have similar issues. They're not going to be a Jason Tatum type where he's making all NBA teams and all this other stuff. It's more of a Jalen Johnson or a Denny Avdia, or like we'll see if Kawhi or Darius Garland would be there with the Clippers. But like, he's still going to have to get along with guys.

30:14Like the league is just too talent deep at this point, where you don't just get your team like it was 10 to 15 years ago. And there are no issues there. You're just the guy and we'll play through you. You get 30 game, like Jerry Stackhouse, and you go to your All-Stars and that's that. The league just doesn't exist that way. So I think it's best for both parties to figure this out. I just don't know if it's like, for him, it's just unsalvageable. Yeah, it's like, on one hand, I completely agree with Justin that this just seems like it's like three conversations and they could all be taking pictures together on Instagram in a couple of days.

30:44On the other hand, we have seen with Kyrie Irving, with Kevin Durant, like, we have seen situations where it's like, So you had Valhalla and you walked away from it multiple times. What happened there? And I just think, especially once a guy wins a ring, it's kind of like, where are you happiest? More than where do I have the best chance to win a championship?

31:05Bill Simmons:And what's his incentive as a basketball player heading into the 11th year of his career? He already won a title. This is, ironically, the Pat Riley disease of more, which the Knicks are going to have to deal with now too. When you sacrifice and you're unselfish and you have a common team goal, and then you have to start thinking, all right, I'm ready for some shine. So when Jalen said that was his favorite year of his career last year, and then he tried to backtrack a little and was like, no, I was meant because everyone counted us out. We had all this adversity and blah, blah, blah. But I think a huge part of that was he finally got his shine as a real guy.

31:38You say some things you don't mean sometimes.

31:40Bill Simmons:But I'm sure he loved it. Just going to get to the segment. I'm sure he loved to prove that you can still be a really good team if I'm your best player, right? They went 56-23 after going 0-3 to start the year. So he proved it. We'll see what else he wants to prove. I think he's a really good player. I had him second-team all-NBA. I think I voted for him in Ringer. Where did he end up in Ringer 100? Like 13th, 14th range? Somewhere in there? I think he was 12th or 13th behind Cat, but above Tatum. Yeah, I had him right around there. And he's still in his prime. I mean, he looked as athletic as he ever was going to look last year.

32:19Bill Simmons:It's interesting though. So I was talking to my daughter who's been living in Boston the last three plus years and has really become a Celtic fan because she's gone to a lot of games and she's like Zach with the draft. Like she's just dangerous enough with basketball opinions now because she's gone to these games. She doesn't know a lot about trades. Like the Celtics have made smaller trades, but never like a big trade with one of their dudes. And she was asking me about this Miami versus Boston for Giannis thing. And she's like, I don't understand. So Miami's not going to put Bam in the trade, but we are going to put Jalen in the trade, but they might not take Jalen in the trade.

32:56Bill Simmons:I don't understand trades. And I was like, well, Miami's going to put all of this other stuff, but it won't be Bam. And she was just like, I know, but I saw the heat last year. Like that kind of sucked. Like, how do you get Giannis for that? And I was like, honestly, I don't know. Was she not available for tonight's podcast? I think she was asleep. You guys talked about the second apron after that? I was like, you know, flexibility and picks. But it is funny to think in that context that Miami was like, no, no, we can't put Bam in it. And meanwhile, Jalen made second team on NBA last year. Bam didn't make any team.

33:31Bill Simmons:Right? And Bam was in the Ringer 100. He was in the 20s. He means more to Miami. He's a big part of the city and the community. And, you know, I know they love him. They've been to finals with him. but it was just interesting that he couldn't be included in this. But now that you made the key point earlier, they can at least build an identity around those two guys and a year of Wiggins and Mitchell. And we're just going to be a bitch to play with. We're going to have good. We're not going to shoot that well, but it's going to be really hard to score against us. We're going to ugly games up. And you have to hope Giannis just has one of those 30, 12, 30, 12 and five play 70 games.

34:07Bill Simmons:It's conceivable. Miami doctors fix him up. Yeah. He's in Miami. A lot of magical things have happened in Miami. A lot of rejuvenations. I mean, I would have to be concerned if they don't get the depth that they need in order to support him. It wasn't just this past season where there were a ton of soft tissue injuries, specifically because it seemed like he was playing too hard and they were overloading him too much by playing through him, right? But it's like now a track record of multiple years. And we're saying like, all these superstars across the league are getting these injuries in part because there's too much torque on their body considering the way the game is played right now.

34:43And so it really is incumbent upon the Heat to figure the rest of this out. The one good thing that he had going for them is that even though they don't have the picks, they find these guys all the time, the Drew Smiths. How many guys are across the league at this point? The Gabe Vincents, Max Struces. They just make these guys out of nothing, but they do have to do that on the fly because they need to fill three roster spots at this point.

35:05Bill Simmons:Yeah, and I think in 2027, that's a harder task than it was 15 years ago because the league is so fucking deep now. Like everybody goes 9, 10, 11 deep. Look at the guys that were coming off the Knicks bench who were barely playing. We're talking about, I always talk about the 2012 East Finals when the Celtics almost made the finals and they had Mikael Pietras and Brandon Bass and Greg Steamsma. Like we had dudes that would not play for NBA teams now that were playing 30, 35 minutes. So I think it's a harder task, CR. Do you think that there is, is there another step to all of this? Whether it's, you know, whether it's a completely separate thing from Jalen and Giannis, but that these were dominoes that had to fall first to make them happen.

35:52Does Miami even have anything in the cupboard to get anything else going in the next couple of... They have the Wiggins.

35:59Bill Simmons:The Wiggins is 30, right? Right. That's right. There's a John Morant, Hail Mary sitting there. Oh, now I'm interested. The drinks just kicked in. Are you serious? There's a lot of South Beach places root for that scenario. But yeah, I mean, look, I don't know what the Ja Morant suitors are. Is there one barrier? Is there one suitor? Like if the Kings take Acuff, the Kings are out as a Ja suit. I don't even know who else we would say. Is Maccabi television? It won't be NBA team. Sparta Prague is getting it. I think if he were to get let go, then certainly I think teams would be interested. But yeah, he just makes a shit ton of money.

36:47So even getting him in the building would take a lot in terms of assets, even if you wanted to cobble together the contracts. And they just gave up like half of the roster. So I don't know how they even get to. If we knew more about our sleep, what would we do differently? Would we go to bed at a consistent time or take steps to reduce interruptions to our sleep? With Sleep Score, Apple Watch measures your bedtime consistency, interruptions, and sleep duration. Then, every morning it combines these factors into an easy-to-understand score from 1 to 100. So you'll know how to take the quality of your sleep from OK to very high.

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38:26Bill Simmons:I have some Fandul news. the Miami Heat are now fifth with title odds. 20 to one. In the East? In the everywhere. OKC plus 250. Do they know something we don't? OKC, San Antonio's plus 260. Celt's six to one. Knicks plus 750. The Knicks having worse odds than the Celtics is, I don't know what to say about that. And then Miami's 20 to one and Denver's 22 to one. Detroit's 25 to one and the Lakers are 30 to one. So Vegas likey. I don't know. Detroit is low there. That's really low for Detroit. I guess the thing with the Knicks is just like they do have a lot to recreate their bench on the fly here because they're so top-heavy, they'll probably lose Mitchell Robinson.

39:13It still feels like a pretty extreme overreaction, but like, yeah, Detroit is out there. I know that like it ended very poorly and you couldn't be bullish based off of Jalen Dern and everything that happened there outside of Cade looking good when he wasn't turning the ball over six times a game. But like they just have so many raw resources in order to figure things out. And it does feel like, for instance, if they wanted to spin off Hero from Milwaukee, like, I think he makes a lot of sense there. Like, he's got the on-ball juice. He could play without Cade. He could shoot and space the floor with him.

39:41Like, that seems like a natural next move if Milwaukee doesn't want to keep him around for Milwaukee beer night or wherever they're keeping him for. I gotta say also, and I've been saying this probably at this time of year, every year for 12 years, the East is getting better. So I don't know how, this is not gonna be Miami gets to cakewalk two out of three games a week. Like, Indiana's going to come back stronger. Oh, yeah. Philly will be Philly. Sean Sweeney and Orlando may be kicking.

40:07Bill Simmons:Wait, can we go back to Philly being Philly? What does that mean, CR? It just means Philly is Philly. It's kind of... I saw it inside of a fortune cookie once. Philly is Philly? It makes a lot of sense. Philly is Philly. They're just like one of those UFC fighters that can get knocked out or knock anyone out every day. Yeah, exactly. But Indy, Orlando, Cleveland and Detroit and Toronto are all like these teams are all better than Miami so it's not going to be like I don't see Miami slingshotting ahead short of a Giannis superpower season right and we saw even with the Bucs where again Giannis was third MVP a couple years ago but it's not like they were a 60 win team right I just think it's harder for one guy to have that kind of impact anymore again I think Miami He should have done this.

40:55Bill Simmons:I'm okay with it. So what'd you guys think of my tweet today when I said I would be absolutely shocked if Hugo was or is thrown into any honest trade offer? The entire organization is all in on him. Steven's probably the most. They could not be hiring him. I genuinely don't believe he's involved. Guess we'll see. Well, I was right. He wasn't involved. Only way you could have improved that tweet is if you would finish it the way Trump finishes his, where he's like, thank you for your attention on this matter. Wait, should I put that on True Social? yeah would you have been more upset if they let go of hugo if only because brown was the assumed price for this if they went above just brown and picks and got rid of hugo i think yeah i thought one of the reasons they were even entertaining this is because they felt like they had guys that they could patch together the jaylen minutes with and be like not as good as jaylen obviously but okay.

41:49Bill Simmons:Like Shireman and, and Hugo, and then Tatum coming back playing 38 minutes. And then you have Giannis grabbing a bunch of minutes. I think they did the math. It didn't make sense to me that Hugo or Shireman would have been in the trade if you're trying to win a title, you know, cause that's a pretty big hole to just remove Jalen out of that. And his 36, 37 minutes a game. I know they love Hugo and I never believed that the, I just will never believe that he was in the offer. I don't, I think they value him, whether it's right or wrong. We've seen teams. We've made jokes about this over the years.

42:20Bill Simmons:There was that. I think my favorite one was Roddy Bubois on Dallas when he was just untouchable for so many years. About Roddy Bubois. It's like Behringer on the Wolves now. He's a good one. It's like, yeah. But there is, not to compare this to the Rondo KG situation, but I'm about to. When they traded for KG, they made Rondo untouchable and they just wouldn't discuss him as part of that deal. and Rondo at that point, he'd played garbage time for like a 17 win team. And, you know, I really liked him. The real Celtic fans who watch the teams were like that guy. I hope he's not in the KG deal. That guy's good.

42:56Bill Simmons:I felt the same way about Hugo. I just think he's 20 years old. I think he's an asset. And I think Shireman is another one who's an asset. So we'll see what they do. I still feel like. My guess is this isn't over. CR. Yeah, that's what I figured. I feel like. Either it's not over or something dramatic is going to happen where we'll read like Brad Stevens and Joe Mazzola met with Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum for seven hours at the seaport of some restaurant there. And they were just in the back room. They watched the town four times. They watched the town over and over again. Jiu-jitsu flipping him.

43:35Yeah.

43:36Bill Simmons:Then Mazzola took them for a ride through the north end for the getaway for Doug and those guys. Yeah, it's going to have to be something like that to flip it. I don't think he's going to play for this. Celtics again. And I'm just basing that entirely off of how much Brad Stevens seemed unhappy with the state of how they were playing. And I don't know how you radically reimagine that team without breaking those guys up. What do you think, Vario? The odds are on that. I just hope that cooler heads prevail here because I just think it's in both of their sides' benefit in order to make this work.

44:08I just don't know how either makes out better if winning is the ultimate goal for both sides in order for them not to still be together. They just won the title two years ago. We're not that far removed from that. And they did such a good job of replacing key components to this team on the fly. We just talked about Miami being able to conjure up bench guys out of nowhere. You just mentioned Hugo. I don't know if you've seen the story about Amari Williams apparently is like two inches bigger at this point. Amari Williams grew three inches.

44:38Bill Simmons:He's seven foot two. Our backup center, he grew three inches out of nowhere. The B-Killer has arrived? Yeah, he's here. Congratulations. He's ready to destroy Wemby. This team just has so much going for them. It just seems like it is more just on the personal level in order to figure it out. Yeah. Yeah, and with that 27th pick, it's interesting. There are some guards that could drop. And the thing that this team, once Simons, they didn't have the one thing they were missing was some sort of guard that could create. Maybe they could find that with the trade exception or whatever. What's your team going to do, CR?

45:11Bill Simmons:What's going to happen there? It's really weird. I don't know where we are. I mean, Gansey, I think, is trying to come up with an identity for the team. That's his big keyword is that we have to have a style of play. And to be honest, I kind of got tantalized by that a little bit because that's one thing that we haven't really had. It's all been like beat availability dependent. And so coming up with some sort of coherent philosophy of how you want the Sixers to play would be great. A great starting point. but I have no feel for what we're going to do or even if we can do anything. How about El Chippo in Portland?

45:46Bill Simmons:Oh, Dundon. What do we got? The cup. He's raised the cup, Bill. Come on. NHL champion Tom Dundon. What's he got for us? I think he's just finding out creative ways to get me and all the other taxpayers to pay for his fucking stadium renovations. I can't believe it. Justin, I was wondering if you might zag and go pro-Dundon because I've been kind of workshopping a couple of them with Bill where I'm just like, are we sure we needed that many photographers? You know? I do like this. How many assistant coaches do we need? Yeah, he's just zagging all over the place. I can't think of a single person who, within days of getting a team or just going to a new team, if you're a player or a coach, executive, has just been so universally reviled.

46:25And just like everyone is out on him. I think the one good thing is it seems like he does have an itchy trigger finger. And I would be surprised if they went through this entire offseason and didn't do something splashy because he just wants to get his name on it. He seemed like a real... I was almost surprised this morning when I woke up. And by the way, I'm not a big fan of what Dunn is doing. But it did seem like he would have been the kind of guy who would hire Dusty May. Perhaps the price. Surprised and impressed that Dallas did that. It really does feel like Dumont has completely stepped away from that team.

47:00He's just like, let's redo this. But I was like, oh, I wonder if this is the kind of guy who's going to start getting hired by these new owners.

47:11Bill Simmons:Any predictions for tomorrow in the draft area before we go?

47:17Nothing out of the ordinary. I would like to see... I've talked myself into Boozer going too, although that sounds like it's cooling a little bit.

47:24Bill Simmons:Yeah, even I've cooled on it. Okay. Just in terms of the fit though, I think it would make a little more sense because I don't know, like Peterson and George just doesn't really mesh as well, I think, considering that Boozer seems like the type of player who connects disparate parts of your team. The Jazz just have so many different guys in order to stir and you need someone to stir the drink there. I also maybe I'm just writing the fumes of the Knicks title, but I'm thinking like George as the small guard surrounded by a ton of size, like just might work. And it seems like they have this sort of synergy to do it.

47:54But yeah, Peterson's going to go to there. It's a little disappointing.

47:58Bill Simmons:I was texting Verna about this today. I would take Boozer to Verna's a little scared of Peterson at three. which I know he's talked about on a show, just because they've lived through this kind of uncertainty with the team they have for so long. And now you have this guy who was basically 15 minutes before Kansas games being like, yeah, I'm not going to play. And they had that weird creatine thing. There's some red flags. Now he's been doing interviews heading into the draft where people have been pretty impressed. So who knows? I don't know what to make of it. I just want to let you know, Bill, Darren Peterson, I think if not today, recently said that his top three movies are the fugitive, interstellar, and the negotiator.

48:38Bill Simmons:It caught my attention, CR. If the NBA doesn't work out, there's a third chair on the rewatchables. It's pretty good. Yeah. These guys usually just say like Air Bud or Gladiator. Yeah, they could have thrown him in the town as his fourth one. Air Bud and Gladiator. But I'm going live after the draft, probably like around the Boston pick tomorrow for the draft, but the big questions for me, the Utah pick, what do the Clippers do at five? I still haven't heard anybody feeling awesome about any of the directions. And then I think the draft just gets weird around eight. And now you have the Michigan coach at nine and all three of his Michigan guys are going to be on the board.

49:17Bill Simmons:Yeah, and they were all on Instagram like, fuck you coach! Right here. And as a huge Steph Curry fan, I'm hoping somebody falls to the Warriors at 11 so they can have one last run. It would be amazing if Burry's was somehow able to fall to them at 11 because two teams did something weird. And then Milwaukee at 10, now that they have 13, could they get a little frisky at 10 because they know they have another pick coming? I think this is a really good draft. I'm excited for it. And there's going to be some guards that fought. What pick? Do you have a pick or no, CR? I think we're 22. Yeah, I mean, you're in the 20s.

49:54Bill Simmons:There's going to be good stuff. Portland does not have a pick, right? No. they conceded the pick because I think of the trade with Chicago a few years ago so we got Yang to look forward to because unfortunately he's still basically a rookie and he didn't play last year right yeah you gotta boost up his Chinese appeal alright well I think we covered everything unless you want to take some shots at the Miami media I don't know if you no I wish those guys the best and peace and love to those guys peace and love you guys have been a class act all this whole time I'm sure in one year when Giannis does an exclusive anonymous source piece about how he's looking to get out of Miami, we could start this all up again.

50:39Bill Simmons:Now, did the brothers come? I guess we didn't cover that part either. I guess they have to be there, right? Yeah. Certainly, yeah. But Pat Riley's famously not a, hey, we're not like other teams. You're going to fit into our culture kind of guy. That's kind of why Jimmy Butler, one of the reasons they end up falling apart. So, I don't know. I'll be interested to see if the brothers come. All right. barrier CR. Thanks for joining me. This wasn't an emergency pod because we've been waiting for this trip for 13 months. It was, what do we call it? Yeah. Um, I wouldn't call it emergency, but what would we call it?

51:08Bill Simmons:Um, urgency, urgency gathering. Yeah. Urgent care and urgent care pod. Urgent care pod. Uh, thanks. Thanks to Chris and Gal and Eduardo as well. I'm going to be back right after the draft. We'll be live on Netflix, uh, tomorrow night, probably around like the Boston pick range at eight o 'clock. Uh, thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. See you tomorrow.

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