Handing Out the ‘Heat’ Awards for This NBA Season With Chris Ryan, Van Lathan, and Rob Mahoney

9:49Van Lathan:I thought they were going to South America, but I don't know if we ever get specified where their destination is.

9:54Bill Simmons:Nobody's really looking for them.

9:56Van Lathan:Nate's playing travel agent, so who knows?

9:59Bill Simmons:And then he sees Pacino from really far away. The heat is now around the corner, and he's out. Best tie-in to lessons earlier in the movie for an ending?

10:09Van Lathan:Yeah, I mean, the way that the movie ends with Pacino, or sorry, with De Niro not being able to leave Wayne Grove alone is the real tell there because it's corrupted him. His need for vengeance, his need to set that score right is what doesn't mean at the end. It's barely Edie. Edie is kind of just a passenger at that point.

10:28Bill Simmons:Tough one. When does she date again, Van, do you think? How many months? You think she eases back into it or just like, I'm single now for life?

10:36Rob Mahoney:When you look at the movie, first of all, he hits. And then the next time they talk, she is like legitimately, she's like, I didn't think you were going to call. So it's been some time, right? And remember, she can't text him at this point. So she's waiting for it. She's like, I didn't think you were going to call. Then he comes back. He quasi kidnaps her. At first goes like, you can't leave? You know, on some sunny from Bronx tail ship? Now you can't leave? Then comes back and goes, you know what? I like you enough. You can go if you want. And she's kind of this whole time, her mind is like in a blender.

11:10Rob Mahoney:She's like, what? Is this the man of my dreams? Or am I now dating like Hannibal Lecter? Right? And so then at the end, it comes full circle. She likes him. They're on a good accord. She's sitting in the car. The police are riding by. She's like, oh, my God, I've never seen this before. And then he comes out, walks right by her.

11:32Chris Ryan:Yeah.

11:32Rob Mahoney:She got tortured this whole fucking film. I felt so bad for. She needs to bounce back with somebody that can really put something on her for like a long time.

11:42Van Lathan:But how long does she wait before she reenters the dating pool?

11:44Rob Mahoney:She got to go right away.

11:46Van Lathan:Okay.

11:46Rob Mahoney:Right away? Yeah. She got to go right away, man. I'm telling you, Pete Davidson, this is what Pete Davidson is made for. Like, he can smell them. Like, he's out in the, he's like, who just broke up with somebody? Who just got fucked over? Here I come. So like, that's what she needs. She got to go right back. Yeah. Is that a pheromonal thing or what's he picking up on? He can just, he sees the weakness. Makes them laugh. Gotcha.

12:14Bill Simmons:We're going to do heat quotes. I'm going to try to explain them as much as I can as we do them. I think this is going to work. Some of them are going to be just, we have the group answer. Other ones will go around. The first one, this is the Val Kilmer, for me, the sun rises and sets with her man award.

12:34Rob Mahoney:I want to give this Hold on for a second Somebody said yeah

12:38Chris Ryan:That was the one woman in the audience

12:40Rob Mahoney:She was fucking somebody else So was he He had action on the side Don't gamble on the Super Bowl I'm sick of it He made the wrong decision

12:52Bill Simmons:This award goes to Mavericks fans Rob They have not gotten over the Luka Doncic trade yet They ended up with Cooper Flagg This worked out in a roundabout way. Why can't they let go? What happened here? I mean, it's too deep. It was too sudden. It was too surprising. It's been a year.

13:08Chris Ryan:No, that one's going to the grave. That one's always going to be the one that got away. That's it.

13:11Bill Simmons:You're from Texas, so you have real thoughts on this. So that's it. They're never going to forgive. Absolutely. Would you? So they got rid of the GM. There was a story that the team might actually, like Mark Cuban's allegedly trying to buy them back. For sure. Definitely going to happen. Yeah. Yeah, I wasn't sure. with that. If you're the Dallas owners, what's in it to keep the team, C.R.?

13:33Van Lathan:What's in it to keep the NBA team that they have?

13:36Bill Simmons:Where everyone hates you. You go to games and people are like, there's the motherfucker who sold Luka Doncic. I hate you.

13:42Van Lathan:The kind of people who buy NBA teams are not their public opinion. Their public approval is not their number one concern. What their concern is that Texas has gambling and that they could have a sports team that goes along with it. They like searching their name in the Epstein files. They don't care about this type of shit.

13:57Rob Mahoney:They're like, oh, no, did Mavs fan 459? Did he got bigger things? So be worried about it. I don't care what the fans think. People at Tin Horn Flats in Southern Dallas. What the fuck?

14:10Bill Simmons:This is interesting, though. So why would you want to own a team? So it's basically an investment, like if you bought, like, 10 Starbucks?

14:15Van Lathan:Because you get talked about on stages like this. Like, nobody would talk about Patrick Dumont, like, ever, you know, in the world. But now he's, like, yeah, an arch villain. But he gets to be like, the Mavericks. I own the Mavericks. See, I think they do want to be liked

14:29Chris Ryan:Or else they wouldn't have fired Nico Harrison To save face, to do something

14:33Rob Mahoney:You guys fucking, what are you talking about?

14:36Bill Simmons:I think they want to be liked Can we ask the crowd? Yeah, I want to know what the crowd is Do you think the Mavericks owners Want to be liked by the fans? Oh wow, 50-50

14:49Rob Mahoney:I'm telling you, this is why these billionaires Are running out, they don't care They got money They own planes, they're doing different type of shit Like, they don't give a damn about none of that. The GMs and the people like that that have to exist inside of basketball culture, they might care. But, like, it's another acquisition for them. I really don't think that they do.

15:08Bill Simmons:Did you have anybody else for this award?

15:10Van Lathan:I did. I loved the briefly, like, the briefly lived rumor during trade deadline of Damian Lillard encouraging the Blazers to trade for Giannis. I thought that was awesome. Just the idea of him staring over a fogged in Portland being like, the sun, man. and sunrises and sets with him.

15:30Chris Ryan:You don't have anything to do? What about you and Con Canipple?

15:33Bill Simmons:Oh.

15:35Chris Ryan:I think it's beautiful what you found together.

15:38Bill Simmons:I will say, you know, he's my second son. Did you slip up on the Nick Wright pod,

15:44Van Lathan:did you say that you drove him somewhere? I drove him back to his hotel

15:51Bill Simmons:after the power of Jesus bill. That's weird.

15:54Rob Mahoney:How did I end up in this situation? He's 20

16:00Van Lathan:He's two years older than my son What did you guys talk about? Talked about a lot of stuff Talked about life

16:07Bill Simmons:How long was his drive? About 30 minutes 30 minutes? He was at Santa Monica

16:13Van Lathan:I had to give him a ride Was he like

16:16Bill Simmons:Call me when you get home

16:18Van Lathan:Just so I know you're safe?

16:22Bill Simmons:I did get worried When the fight happened last night Khan was out there. I was like, Khan! Don't get hurt! Next award. Oh, this is good. I get to do an imitation. 30 minutes. That is wild.

16:38Van Lathan:What music did you play? Did you play music?

16:40Rob Mahoney:Yeah, well, we have to stay here for a second. How do you set the mood with Khan? Bill, what happened? So Khan's got to go somewhere, right? Bill's never given me a ride, by the way. Never in life. Bill is never like, hey, do you need me to drop you off somewhere? visited this motherfucker in Malibu Bill's like alright peace guys hope you get home right like you drove him home like what happened I drove him to Santa Monica okay drove him to Santa Monica what dropped him off

17:07Bill Simmons:and that was that okay I didn't want to put him in an Uber he was he came all the way over to my house to do the podcast I don't know you guys agree with me the crowd's behind me just a nice person sorry guys I get to do an invitation here the Danny Trey Award for... Neil. Don't leave me like this, Neil. Please, Holmes.

17:35Bill Simmons:I'm giving this to Steph Curry. Oh, wow. Tough. Tough. It's over. He's just lying on his back in a pool of blood. There's no more titles to be had. Neil, please. Is there anybody else you would give this to? Steve. Who's holding the gun? Don't trade for Giannis. Don't leave me like this.

17:55Chris Ryan:Guy Santos is holding the gun. He's just begging any supporting warrior to help him out. Who do you have for this year?

18:00Van Lathan:I agree with you about Steph Curry. What do you think the odds are that he plays for a different team before he's done? Wow, the crowd groaned.

18:11Rob Mahoney:Because everybody's thinking the same thing. That can't possibly happen. You don't want to see that. You don't want to see Steph in a different team. See, the problem is he's won four titles, right, Rob?

18:18Bill Simmons:It's not like he needs to chase a fifth title.

18:20Chris Ryan:No, unimpeachable. I don't know why he would leave. I think he's just going to go down with that ship or be put out of his misery, maybe.

18:26Bill Simmons:We saw it with Kobe, where Kobe was just like, yeah, I'm retiring a Laker. I don't really care what happens with win-loss.

18:32Rob Mahoney:Yeah, because honestly, that means something. It means something to be a guy that wasn't, A, traded around the league, didn't have to leave to go find a championship somewhere else, to have been the cultural and competitive stability for a franchise for 17, 18, 19. There's not a lot of players who can say that. With that said

18:53Bill Simmons:Wow Oh Jesus Crowd's in the back For a band I can tell With that said It's February Black History Month

19:02Rob Mahoney:They should be in the back For me Shout out Jomie I saw Jomie in the crowd too Y 'all give it up for Jomie Shout out to Jomie

19:09Bill Simmons:It is interesting That Charlotte Is becoming good Right as Steph Curry's Charlotte that's been bad The entire time He's been on Golden State Basically His hometown team They're retiring His dad's number this season. I saw that.

19:22Van Lathan:A little seeding the ground. Sure.

19:24Chris Ryan:Would Steph come off the bench behind LaMelo, do you think?

19:27Bill Simmons:Well, we're talking two, three years from now. Steph's 40. This is the tail end. Weird shit happens at the end of People's Curse. I don't think he leaves. Okay. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra, a superior beer that, by the way, is worth playing for. So what do I mean by that? Well, everything's a competition these days. Why couldn't you put some ultras on the line? Come on. Everybody loves a good competition. As my friends and family know, I love competing on everything. How long I can get to the movie theater? How long will it take? Can I get home before everybody? How long can I get to and from a Lakers game?

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20:44Bill Simmons:See official rules at miglobaltra.com slash rules for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. Next one. This is the, this slick is no motherfucking joke award for the single flimsiest tidbit. That should not have been a major plot device. So the entire plot of heat hinges on. Yeah. Who played that? Who played that character? Albert. Yeah. It's Ricky Martin. Him mentioning. Oh, this guy that just got it. No, no, no, no, I know you know Tone Loke. Yeah, yeah, Tone Loke. Also in Ace Ventura. Ace Ventura, right? Oh, yeah. The year before. So it all hinges on him remembering that this guy that got out of jail called people Slick, triggering Pacino's memory of a witness saying that.

21:35Bill Simmons:And that's it. We're off. Now we've found Slick. Are we buying this? No. Okay.

21:40Van Lathan:Well, who do you have for this award? I had the 65 game requirement for MVP in the awards. This was not something that I had in my list of things that I was going to need to care about in my 40s. And I don't even know who's going to be the... These guys keep dropping. Who's going to win MVP this year?

21:58Chris Ryan:So Jokic is going to be out. Giannis is already out. Wemby is out. Shea, I mean, it depends on how long they keep him out. He's dealing with his ab injury. LeBron's gone. Luka is on pace to be out. And if you care about Joel Embiid, Steph, I do care about Joe. I mean, how many heartbeats away are we from Kawhi Leonard fucking around not planting a tree and becoming MVP? Like, how many people have to drop out?

22:25Van Lathan:It's closer than you think. I mean, that sponsorship would finally pay off, you know? I think they should give it to Shadua Sanders.

22:37Bill Simmons:They should have, the mistake they made is they should have done 2 ,000 minutes or 65 games? Because 2 ,000 minutes is significant. Like, if you played 58 games in 2 ,000 minutes, you're playing 34, 35 minutes in the games you played. How do you... They just didn't put enough thought into it. How do we square

22:52Rob Mahoney:our animus for that rule also with our general animus for load management and guys not playing in games and things of that nature?

23:01Bill Simmons:Well, I think I understand why they did it because they were trying to prevent these guys from a situation like last night. Right. Where if you had Spurs-Lakers tickets and you're like, I'm so excited. Wemby, LeBron, Luca. And then the Lakers are like, here's our team. And there was literally nobody. They're running the video before the game on the Jumbotron, and none of the guys in the video are playing in the game. And you're like, I just paid$700 for these seats or whatever. So I think they're trying to fix that. But the schedule is too long, as we've discussed a million times. And that's it.

23:31Bill Simmons:Did you have anything for this, Rob? How sicko do you want to go this early in the show?

23:35Chris Ryan:You go. We got to keep the crowd awake. I think Landry Shamit saved the Knicks. I don't know how that happened. He starts playing. All of a sudden, they can't lose to anybody except the Indiana Pacers somehow. We don't want to talk about that. But I don't know. They were in shambles. And then Landry Shamit came back from the dead. And all of a sudden, they're a functional team again.

23:57Bill Simmons:That's pretty good. That's a good one. Sixth banner award? Let's give it to him. He's the only eligible player. I'm really excited for this next award. This gimmick's working all right, right? Yeah. All right. Great. Thanks. Why don't you be confident? Yeah. Okay.

24:10Van Lathan:Well, I'm having a good time. I just want to make sure. Is it better or worse than driving Conquer the Bulls to Santa Monica?

24:16Rob Mahoney:I was about to say, you spent 30 minutes in the car with Conquer the Bulls. You was confident enough to do that. You could conquer the whole fucking world. You were like, 20-year-old man, get in my car. That's so creepy, Bill. Bill, like, did you understand? That's so odd.

24:29Bill Simmons:What is odd about it? I know him, though. I know him, though. All right. This award kind of made up. It's the Making Out with Al Pacino's Coffee Cigarette Morning Breath for Multiple Takes Award for the Single Worst Day in the Job. The poor actress who has to make out with Al. Diane Venora, yeah. All morning. They're like, Michael Mann's like, let's do take eight. She's like, kill me, honestly. Al's had a 64-ounce coffee and five Marlboro Reds. Who'd you have for this year?

25:05Van Lathan:I had Adam Silver seeing the Giannis Kalshi partnership tweet. Love it. Just being like, shit. Love it.

25:15Rob Mahoney:Can y 'all imagine? Think about that. What a bad... Think about, like, if 2015 Kobe was like, I would like to announce my partnership with Brazzers. Like, what a bad... It's gambling, dawg. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, what a bad look. What the fuck is going on with Giannis?

25:33Bill Simmons:Well, especially, like, the day after he didn't get traded. when there were all these bets about whether he could trade or not. He concocted a fiction

25:40Rob Mahoney:to get people betting on it and didn't say, hey, put some money down. It's weird. He perpetrated a fraud, you're saying.

25:47Van Lathan:The Bucks were like, not that serious about trading. They were like, you can call. But we're not. So clearly there was something mysterious going on, allegedly.

25:55Chris Ryan:Do you have one for this, Rob? Chris Paul, the day no one showed up to his Halloween party. Oh, man. I mean, that just sucks. Second groan from the crowd. Rob, I'm kidding.

26:04Bill Simmons:I'm sorry. That was one of the... So they have these... Brian Curtis always calls these the Now They Tell Us article after something bad has happened. There was just one today about Jonathan Kaminga. Yeah. Where his family was eating too much food from the pregame Warriors table. Unbelievable. Like, Now They Tell Us. The Now They Tell Us for the Chris Paul was that Halloween story. It's like, here's how bad it got.

26:26Rob Mahoney:Boy, I got a fantastic joke about the Kaminga thing, but I can't let it fly. Nah. Yeah. They can edit it out? No, no, no, no. Nobody will tweet about it.

26:39Bill Simmons:Somebody said be a man. For a single worst day of the job, Paul Pierce's kind of crisis team. Paul Pierce? I mean, Paul George. Sorry. Paul Pierce's too. Yeah, Paul Pierce. He doesn't even have a crisis team anymore. I like him more. Yeah, they all quit.

26:58Van Lathan:PG, I don't really even know if he would have a crisis team. His career has been relatively crisis-free in that way until now. Yeah, that was tough. Next award, Dennis Haysbert's in this movie.

27:10Bill Simmons:He plays the guy who ends up becoming the driver. This is the Dennis Haysbert briefly becoming a short-order cook award for worst and most forgettable career stop. And I have to do Anthony Davis and the Wizards here. I don't know how long this is going to last. it's clearly a trade for we're trying to figure out new ways to tank Rob and the traditional tanking doesn't work oh I see like short term for the Wizards tank let's trade for a guy who's not playing again this year and we'll give up some stuff for him then we have a built in excuse and then maybe he's an asset next year well what if they're good I'm about to say this is what I'm going to say is like

27:50Van Lathan:in retrospect Donald should have probably stayed on the line cooking omelets that day because it was a pretty tough end to it They hated his boss.

27:58Chris Ryan:That is the lesson from Pete. Do not give up your short order cook job to go drive.

28:03Rob Mahoney:But every time I watch the movie, I want to kick the boss in his fucking teeth, man. The boss is just a terrible fucking guy. He actually passed away today.

28:11Van Lathan:The actor, Bud Court. Did he really? Is that for real? Oh, man. Rest in peace.

28:20Rob Mahoney:You mean for real? Yeah, he did. Oh, dog. I fuck with the boss, man. It was a really inspired performance. That's fucked up. It's a messed up character. It is, man. I feel bad now, though.

28:31Chris Ryan:Chris actually gave me that same spiel when I came to The Ringer. He's like, 25 % of your salary off the top. Yeah. Write whatever fucking blog post I don't want to do. How long is AD and the Wizards? Is he there in 2027? I think it'll be two seasons.

28:44Bill Simmons:Oh, interesting.

28:45Chris Ryan:Two full seasons after this little chunk of change, I think. I think he's out in January.

28:49Rob Mahoney:Are they not like a weirdly interesting team? I think this is going to work. Having added him and what they have now.

28:54Van Lathan:This is amazing to watch. I think there's a sleeping giant basketball fandom in that area. I think Trey and him probably are going to play pretty well together. And it's a good look for the young guys to be like, it's not all on us. You know, I think it's going to work.

29:10Bill Simmons:It's too bad it's not 2020. Next award. The selling Roger Van Zandt has stolen bonds back at 60 % of their value to make 40 % on top of the 100 % award. for best idea on paper that was actually insane in retrospect. I have to give this to, if this story is true, Mark Cuban trying to buy back the Mavericks. Sold super low in the market right after it exploded and the team was probably worth, what were the Mavericks, what would they have been worth last year? What was the final sale? I thought it was like three and a half.

29:43Chris Ryan:Isn't it like six? Wouldn't it be six? I mean, a massive team with a clear superstar in one of the biggest markets in the country. I would think it would be huge. Hasn't he spent all his money

29:51Van Lathan:on Indiana football now, though?

29:53Chris Ryan:I guess it went well.

29:55Van Lathan:Chris, did you believe this story? I did not. It just sounded like kind of a PR move. Also, it's like, what is that, a phone call? It's like, no, click. Yeah, that's a good point. It would be kind of funny if Patrick Dumont was like, if the word is on the street that you can take my money. Right.

30:13Bill Simmons:Next award, Kelso, the guy in the wheelchair. You want to do it, Chris?

30:19Van Lathan:It comes to you. this stuff just flies through the air. They send this information beamed out all over the fucking place.

30:26Bill Simmons:So the Kelso predicts the entire future of the internet from a wheelchair award for single best vision of 2026. What do you have, Rob?

30:35Chris Ryan:Is he the best hang in the movie? Like, just a normal, well-adjusted guy with a hobby? You think he's normal? He seems pretty normal. Honestly, relatively

30:42Bill Simmons:speaking. I would give him a Ringer podcast right now. I think he had really good ideas.

30:46Van Lathan:You should make him the third chair on Game Over. I was about to say. Put him in there.

30:50Bill Simmons:Or put him plain English. He could be a rotating host with Derek.

30:54Van Lathan:Sign him with Clutch.

30:55Bill Simmons:Who'd you have for this?

30:57Van Lathan:I had the Wizards and the Jazz buying distressed assets and immediately tabling them in order to tank. Is this not the Derek Queen trait? From which perspective?

31:07Bill Simmons:For best vision or worst vision?

31:09Rob Mahoney:I mean, it seems to me this is the best vision. He turned into an actual player. Yeah, the idea is that this is something nobody had thought of. Nobody thought of. they didn't know now he's Nigrolo Jokic I'm glad you didn't share that before you I got another one too

31:27Chris Ryan:you want to get it off your chest now or you want to wait Nigrolo Jokic

31:33Bill Simmons:what'd you have for this break I'm keeping it moving

31:37Rob Mahoney:you're moving on what are you supposed to do you drove 30 minutes but you can't

31:44Bill Simmons:but you're too shy to laugh That ties into my answer. I had the Hornets for this. It took them forever, but they finally figured out a nucleus that I kind of like. What'd you have?

31:53Chris Ryan:Is it not just the Thunder having everything? All the young players, all the future plans, the Clippers pick? I don't know how they aren't the vision for every future at this point, unfortunately.

32:03Bill Simmons:Yeah, you're probably right. Sorry. When is Rob going to be wrong? It's weird. The problem with the Thunder, we struggle with this doing basketball on our podcast. There's just not a lot of angles. it's like everything's been said they have a ton of assets they did everything perfectly their team likes each other there's no drama coach is a normal guy gm's just kind of keeps his head down does his job i don't even know who the owners are like what's there to say i've got i've got a wrinkle for them later i got okay yeah spurs might have their number um all right three more and then we have a special list from van the vincent's girlfriend telling him i'm stoned on grass and Prozac, and now I have to demean myself with Ralph just to get closure with you.

32:48Bill Simmons:Award for single worst relationship.

32:52Chris Ryan:Poor Ralph. What'd you go with here? John Morant and the Grizzlies. Awesome. That's the answer.

32:58Bill Simmons:What'd you have, CR? Kaminga and the Warriors. Oh, that's a good one. I had Balmer and Kawhi. I mean, they're still finding LLCs. Pablo's finding out more and more LLCs every week. Kawhi has more LCs than anyone who's ever

33:15Rob Mahoney:lived. But you don't feel like they trauma bonding? I see a world where Balmer calling up Kawhi like, hey man, this little motherfucker's at it again. What are we going to do about this problem? Like, hey man, you didn't know anybody? Talk to Uncle Dennis. We got to get rid of this motherfucker, man.

33:33Bill Simmons:Chris, what were the high times for Vincent and his girlfriend? For Diane Avenue. What were the courting process?

33:41Van Lathan:Maybe he had like a little bit of a soft spot in his schedule, like a lull in major crimes in Los Angeles. And he was just like, you and me, we're going out. We're going to Wolfgang Puck's. You know, we're going to...

33:52Bill Simmons:So you think it was dinners?

33:53Van Lathan:Like they were just... It's 95. Let's go see, like what, Nick Van Exel? I don't know who was playing 95. The Lakers are going to get

34:02Bill Simmons:Shaquille O 'Neal. The Malibu Equity Investment Special Achievement Award for Best Money Laundering Operation? I mean... I don't even think we have to answer this one.

34:15Chris Ryan:I mean, there's one that's literal money laundering, so... I would also...

34:19Bill Simmons:I would also... I don't know if... Does Tankapalooza2026 qualify for this as a money laundering operation? No, that's more out front, I think, now. You're basically... You're charging your fans full price. Like, look at Utah the other night. You're charging your fans full price. in the fourth quarter, you take out all the best players on your team and play the players 7 through 11 and try to lose the game, but you don't. And then everyone's in the locker room after like, yeah, weird one. Whoa.

34:49Chris Ryan:But then they asked Will Hardy, did you think about putting those guys back in? He's like, nah. Nah, I didn't. So it's not laundering.

34:55Bill Simmons:You're right. It's just out front. All right, last one. The Natalie Portman as Vincent's troubled stepdaughter award for I'm not sure why we needed this plot, but maybe I can see why if I squint long enough at this award. Sierra, did we need the Natalie Portman plot?

35:12Van Lathan:Ultimately, is this a cut? It's a little bit of a drag on rewatches, but in the totality of the movie, it kind of works. I wouldn't want it without Natalie Portman. It's so weird. The Barrettes.

35:25Rob Mahoney:It's interesting because there's a scene in the movie where he gives her a ride back to the house.

35:36and

35:38Rob Mahoney:even in the movie it's like they wasn't expecting to see her it's odd you can come and call her mom it's like why would you do that they're in the car 30 minutes like what happens and so that's pretty good man

35:50Bill Simmons:I'm not letting it go

35:52Rob Mahoney:that's wild

35:53Bill Simmons:I had for this one Inside the NBA on ESPN oh yeah oh shit another third groan of the night What is going on with this? These guys, the whole point of the show being special was they would come on after the games for like over an hour and just do their thing. And now they're getting shoved out in a half hour. Yeah. You didn't. Yeah. And then everyone said, no, no, it's not going to happen. And then it's it just feels like neutered inside the NBA. It's sad, bro.

36:20Chris Ryan:I don't think it's good for anybody. I don't think they like doing it. I don't like watching it. Like, who is who is that product for if you're going to contain those guys into a 15 minute block?

36:28Van Lathan:It's really strange. I hope it changes in the second half of the season. I mean, they said their schedule was going to be weighted towards that.

36:35Rob Mahoney:They're grown in a little bit now, like the audience. But the question is, like, how long do they... They are used to being sort of the cultural standard setter for commentary of the NBA. Right. And, like, how long do those guys who are, like, legends at this, how long do they stay comfortable?

36:53Bill Simmons:This episode is brought to you by Venmo. Supporting your team never gets old, but here's something new. You can now pay for your game day wings and rep your team at the same time. How? By getting your college colors on your card. Score more with the college branded Venmo debit card. Get up to 5 % cash back with Venmo Stash. Sign up at Venmo.com slash college card. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. Select schools available. Venmo Stash bundle terms and exclusions apply at Venmo.me slash stash terms. max$100 cash back per month. This episode is brought to you by TaxAct. Like an expert coach, TaxAct offers step-by-step guidance and guaranteed accuracy when filing taxes.

37:38Bill Simmons:Get tips along the way, add expert assist to talk to tax experts and let our experts do your taxes for you with expert full service. TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit TaxAct.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn ads. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from the other ad buys.

38:16Bill Simmons:You could target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority skills, company revenue. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. That's why LinkedIn ads generates the highest B2B return and ad spend on all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them. Spend$250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free$250 credit for the next one. Just go to linkedin.com slash Simmons bill. Terms and conditions apply. But with that, speaking of comfortable and uncomfortable, it's time for Van's special top five list.

38:48Rob Mahoney:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

38:49Bill Simmons:I ask Van sometimes when he comes on the rewatchables, he makes a top five list. For us. And what do you have for us, man?

38:56Rob Mahoney:All right. So I'm going to do some NBA comps to heat. All right. I'm doing my whole top five here. So Neil, Neil is clearly LeBron. OK, cultural, psychological leader of the movie and team claims to know when to quit, but obviously doesn't. Secretly, he knows it's over, but he wants somebody to take it from him. I'm not going back. Right. Also, he is willing to make an example out of any subpar player that doesn't share his DNA.

39:32Rob Mahoney:Okay. Scheherlis, Kyrie Irving. Oh, that's good. I like it. Beautiful killer. Looks better doing his job than anyone. Perfect 1A. Probably not an ideal one. Wouldn't want to build the crew around him. Least likely person in the crew to get vaccinated. most likely person in the crew to maybe be right about it okay let's move on okay all right i apologize i've been on youtube okay vincent steph highly technical natural skilled foil to neil's force of nature computer-minded methodical but when he is on he is the entire reason to watch the movie. Has a marriage that the movie is probably too concerned with.

40:23Chris Ryan:Be careful.

40:25Rob Mahoney:I'm just saying, we need to get out the people's business. I'm saying, we probably too invested just like we were probably too invested in the movie. Okay. Tarito. Draymond Green. Yes. Yes. Indispensable do-it-all glue guy of the crew who doesn't realize that his mouth probably caused the end of the dinosaur.

40:48Rob Mahoney:But it did. Van Zant.

40:54Rob Mahoney:Son's owner. Matt Eshiba. Suit wearing business guy who thinks he can control what goes on in these podcasts and internet streets. And just like Van Zant, we might have to make an example out of him if he keeps running his motherfucking mouth.

41:18Rob Mahoney:One more. Wayne Grove. Dylan Brooks. No further explanation.

41:25Bill Simmons:You know, that was good.

41:31Bill Simmons:The thing with Vincent and Steph, Steph would have the hot streaks from three. Like, out of nowhere, it would hit the three threes in a row. Kind of like Vincent, just the random scenes.

41:39Van Lathan:Just yelling randomly. By the time I get to Phoenix,

41:43Bill Simmons:she'll be rising. All right. More quotes. we have a special Vincent Hanna section coming up the what the fuck is a regular life barbecues and ball games award for most depressing but probably accurate look on life tanking works Rob most of the best players in the league have ended up on teams that probably tank to get them for the most part and that's why teams keep doing this this is why we've had tanking for 42 years and counting this is why we've never come up with the rules to stop it and there's this awesome draft this year and all of these teams that are doing this are probably going to be rewarded in some way.

42:21Chris Ryan:Fucking bleak.

42:22Bill Simmons:Yeah. What would you do? How would you stop it?

42:25Chris Ryan:How would I stop tanking?

42:26Bill Simmons:Yeah.

42:27Chris Ryan:This is what everyone's talking about this week. I don't think there's a good fix for it. I would in the NBA draft to be honest with you. I would do rookie free agency. I would do you have an allotted rookie exception based on how bad your record is but ultimately make it a marketplace.

42:43Van Lathan:Who would ever be like, I'll go to Utah then.

42:47Chris Ryan:I mean, the question is, are you going to take$8 million to go to Utah or are you going to take the minimum salary to go to LA?

42:52Van Lathan:So how does this work in soccer, Chris?

42:54Rob Mahoney:But even with that, though, there's going to be cultural considerations. You can't tank in soccer.

42:57Van Lathan:You get relegated. You lose tons of money. And lots of teams fall down the toilet and never get back. It's really hard.

43:06Rob Mahoney:I mean, if you end the draft, you change the structure of the league competitively for a while. But look, I mean, the tanking thing is like a deeper question about, is there a is there a is there a method of thinking that tanking is actually a competitive

43:23Van Lathan:strategy? But this is the problem is that these guys just don't know branding. The Sixers had it. They called it the process. They announced what they were going to be doing. They were talking about like what was going to go into it instead of pretending. They sat Embiid for his rookie year. They sat Simmons. They had injuries. And the fans kind of loved it. They got super defensive about it too. We got insane. Shut the fuck up. This is working.

43:44Chris Ryan:Yeah. But also, how did it go? We got to the second round of the playoffs. Okay.

43:50Van Lathan:Just like we did with Drew Holiday in Duck College. You know, it's fair.

43:54Bill Simmons:The You See Me Doing Thrill Seeker Liquor Store Holdups with the Born to Lose Tattoo on My Chest Award for Best Hope for the Future. What do you have, Rob? I mean, I think it's got to be Cooper. Is there a better answer than that? Yeah, I was going to say the entire draft class. And combine that with this coming draft class, this is like, we're talking next generation of the league right now.

44:13Van Lathan:The BJ Ed Schum going for in-game dunks. Yeah.

44:18Bill Simmons:Any disagreement, Van? No. Okay. The Neil McCauley, I am alone, I am not lonely, romance award. So what is the romance in that? Well, I'm going to give it to you now. First of all, bleak display of how you feel about maybe falling in love and caring about other people. Sure. I'm giving it to the Bulls owners in front office for 11 years and counting of just being like, fuck you guys. Don't really care about any of you. We're going to go 40 and 42. We're not going to pay the luxury tax. Middle finger right here, baby. You love Michael Jordan 30 years ago? Yeah. You can come and look at his jersey and we're going to have a shitty team to give you.

45:02Bill Simmons:Here it is. I think that's the right answer. I think so. All right. Two more. The evil Wayne Grow, the Grim Reapers Visiting With You Award. Did you have one for this? Because I have a good one. I didn't. I want to hear yours is. It's Palo with the advanced basketball metric nerds coming after him this year. They came after him early. They're still coming. They're talking about his long twos, Rob. They don't like the lack of playmaking. God forbid someone talks about your long twos. So the big salary, could he be available this summer?

45:36Chris Ryan:The nerds are out on Palo. I think people were hopeful and waiting. And it's just like the magic have not turned any corner whatsoever for years. They lost tonight to Cam Thomas and the Bucs. I mean, just kind of embarrassing. Yeah.

45:47Van Lathan:Cam Thomas is on the Bucs.

45:48Bill Simmons:He's on the Bucs. He's got to start with the Bucs. Not only is Cam Thomas on the Bucs, there is a two and a half minute Cam Thomas highlight video from tonight's game when he had 34 points. Yeah, he kind of is fucking cooking the magic. He is the Bucs right now. And you can see Doc Rivers look at his face like, I thought I was going to be playing golf in early April. Now I might be in the play-in. I have to cancel some trips.

46:11Rob Mahoney:Can we shift focus back to the movie for one second? Yeah. Wayne Grove is a serial killer. Yes.

46:17Van Lathan:It's a hobby of his outside of bank robbery. Yeah.

46:23Bill Simmons:Wayne Grove's killed several young women. So if they did the scripted version, the scripted TV version of this movie, there's a Wayne Grove episode where he's just killing multiple people. In the movie, they kind of throw it in as a little extra. Yeah. It's strange. All right. Last one.

46:38Chris Ryan:I do appreciate you not throwing those quotes about being a real cowboy and a hot dog and the fuck of her young life as one of the themes. Save the audience from that.

46:47Bill Simmons:All right. We got to do this. I hesitate to do this because I know how excited Van's going to be. But the Diner Scene Showdown Award for there's a flip side to that coin. What if you got me boxed and I got to put you down? This is every Celtics fan's fair with Jalen and Jason Tatum when Jason Tatum comes back. Damn. Them staring at each other across the diner table and Jalen like, this is my team now.

47:14Rob Mahoney:Right, that's not what he would say. He's going to look at me and be like, get that light-skinned shit out of here. Okay? It's a real motherfucker in the room. Back up when a G comes in this bitch 30 a game. What the fuck you been doing? Get out of here. Okay? And you know it's happening. You know it's happening. And I told you it was going to happen. I do study the interviews that they give

47:36Bill Simmons:and the quotes and whether one guy's mentioned the other guy. It's dark. Not great.

47:42Rob Mahoney:I'm from Mensa, bitch. You can only

47:44Van Lathan:understand what I'm saying. Do you really think you really wouldn't you be happier if Jason Tatum just took a year off to recover from Achilles injury, which is what he's supposed to do? I think if he's healthy,

47:57Bill Simmons:like, why would you play basketball? That's how it works. But if they clear him and they're like, you're ready to play basketball. They cleared Lindsey Vonn. Like, what are you talking about? I don't know. They definitely didn't clear Lindsey Vonn. Shout out to her.

48:09Rob Mahoney:She tore an ACL. She'd been giving back to the community for a long time.

48:19Rob Mahoney:Man, the fact that that happened in February, that was a shot to us all, man.

48:26Bill Simmons:Rob, are you worried about this?

48:28Chris Ryan:I'm worried about my career at this point. Are you worried about this Celtics thing at all? I don't know what the negotiation is. Like, I'm kind of with Van. Like, they're one of the best offenses in the league, and Jalen's been cooking. Like, what are we talking about exactly? Great. You made me all feel better. Can I ask you a question, though?

48:44Rob Mahoney:You want Jason Tatum to come back, and the Celtics fans are really invested in Jason Tatum. But, like, obviously, to his point, like, what's the big deal? Take the year off. The Celtics weren't going to, like, just get as healthy as you possibly can. It's an Achilles injury. It's a very serious injury. Why the rush back? Does he need to assert dominance over the team to let people know that he's the big swing of dick?

49:04Bill Simmons:I just think these guys are meant to do what they're meant to do. And he's a basketball player. And if they're telling him he's healthy, he's just going to wait another six months to play. I think that's what it comes down to. I'm hoping. I mean, these guys, I love having these guys on the same team. I'm hoping it works out. I'm hoping it's great. I'm hoping it fits in. I'm hoping it's one big happy family. I'm hoping it blows the fuck up. CR. You hope they hate each other. That's what I'm hoping. Yeah, I'm in LA. And by the way, I just want to say something real quick.

49:32Rob Mahoney:Real quick before we move on, man. You know, I get accused by the people on Reddit and stuff and ejecting politics into everything and stuff like that. And I know that this is a time where, as a country, we're pretty divided. But I do want to take the time right now, right here, to really give congrats to a group of American heroes who this past Sunday stopped the evil empire from rising up again. So up there in Seattle, man Y 'all like the Jedi, baby That's what I'm talking about, baby 12th man 12th man in this bitch

50:14Van Lathan:I heard you talking shit about that Eagles Super Bowl 2 On the pod where you were like, that didn't count That was a 50-50 game

50:23Bill Simmons:I honestly have no comeback at all We got destroyed I watched all of Will Campbell's pass protection I literally did, I did that today I watched every pass block he did I was like, it wasn't that bad, it wasn't as bad as I remember, that's the stage I'm at now defending the left tackle who gave up two sacks and nine pressures Alright, we have a special Vincent Hanna section and we have the best Vincent Hanna person on the planet, Chris Ryan Chris is going to do these quotes. Take it away, Chris. Here's the first one. I've got three dead bodies

51:03Van Lathan:on a sidewalk off Venice Boulevard, Justine. I'm sorry if the goddamn chicken got overcooked. Award for guy most beaten down by his own profession. There's just nobody doing it like you. We got many more, too. I got Billy Donovan. for the 1442 for nine straight years. Third chamber of hell. Just like, here we are again. What new kings do I have on my team? Yeah.

51:36Bill Simmons:Is Nico Harrison eligible anymore? Absolutely still eligible. Yeah, I think he would be my pick. I don't know if he works again. What's his next job? I would be shocked in the NBA.

51:45Van Lathan:He's going to work at Foot Palace in Baton Rouge. Just for feet.

51:50Chris Ryan:I think the detail I'm always going to remember about Nico Harrison is like right before he was fired, a Dallas fan, like, accosted him and his daughter out to dinner, and it was because he took his daughter to Twin Peaks, which is like a Hooters-adjacent restaurant. It's like, of all... Why any of this?

52:06Van Lathan:For a second, I thought it was, like, a rep theater screening of Twin Peaks. No, no. It's like, David Lynch was just in his bag, honey. You gotta watch this. Do the next one. The next one is the Give Me All You Got! Give Me All You Got! Award.

52:26Bill Simmons:I have the bucks at the trade deadline and I don't even think they were serious that's the one we want all your picks and we want an all-star and more guys and throw some other stuff in and I don't think they were ever serious and also Rob the weird thing was some of the best teams in the league were not serious about trading for them Spurs were like no thanks Rockets were like we're good OKC's like fuck no Celtics, no. You go through the top. Cleveland couldn't do it because of the apron. So why wasn't he as popular of a trade asset as you would have thought he would have been if he was a top 20 guy of all time?

53:03Chris Ryan:I think it's just hard with that level of salary if you're not in the offseason. It's just easier to wait and trade him later because if you do trade him now, it's like, do you want Jonathan Kuminga or Kalel Ware in exchange for one of the greatest players ever? With a bunch of weird picks. Yeah. It just didn't really make sense.

53:17Bill Simmons:Well, maybe he'll be in the playoffs. What's the next one, Ciar?

53:19Van Lathan:The, I told you when we hooked up, baby, that you were going to have to share me with all the bad people and all the ugly events on this planet award for best excuse for being terrible at something.

53:37Rob Mahoney:Yo, this should not be this funny to me. I'm on the rewatch all the time. It kills me with the fucking voices. One of his best things.

53:47Bill Simmons:I have Adam Silver just being unable to stop tanking at all. She's like, I just can't. I can't stop it. I can't stop this from happening.

53:56Chris Ryan:What'd you have? Aaron Gordon and Christian Brown got hurt, and the Nuggets just didn't play defense for three months. Like, yeah, we're good. There's no way to fix it. Like, let's just wait. Yeah.

54:06Bill Simmons:All right, next one, CR.

54:07Van Lathan:The You Could Get Hurt Walking Your Doggy Award. I think I know what this is for. Go for it.

54:20Van Lathan:that's what he says I mean this is the Achilles calf thing

54:26Bill Simmons:yeah

54:26Van Lathan:this is the soft tissue and the Achilles stuff yeah

54:30Bill Simmons:more calf stuff in the last two years I feel like than we had in the previous 20 and I have no explanation for it other than it seems like they run more Eurostep step backs on threes just hard planning why is that

54:44Van Lathan:Eurostep is really doing people's Achilles like that

54:46Bill Simmons:I don't know. It's a conspiracy bill theory. I'm not going to apologize for it. I think they do unnatural motions. You go back and you watch games from the 70s and 80s. Everybody's just going this way, back and forth. We're all high on cocaine running in the street lines.

55:02Van Lathan:Now we're doing this. We're going backwards.

55:04Chris Ryan:We're doing these fancy steps. What do you think it is, Rob? I mean, I think it's exactly what you said. Explosive movement in ways that players were never doing before. They refuse to touch the schedule, which is the one thing they actually need to fix.

55:14Rob Mahoney:And they don't want to mess with it. I think it's these bullshit-ass skill coaches teaching these motherfuckers all this kind of shit that don't make no sense. In-N-Out dribble. Left-right. Tween-tween. Back. Spin. Half 360. Move. Up under the basket. Over the top. Okay, that's the way. Fuck all that shit. Get the ball. Make a move. Pass the motherfucker. Do cocaine. Throw an entry pass. The whole nine. Let the center hold it for 14 seconds. Right. Throw that bitch into Hakeem Olajuwon. Let him go get a bucket.

55:43Bill Simmons:Think about all that shit we have in 2026. Like probably the best sneakers we've ever had. All these things you can put on your legs. And we have ice baths and saunas and a million different things that you would think people would be getting healthier. Less healthy.

56:00Rob Mahoney:Well, I mean, you know, the game is different. The pace is different. They're playing the game in a totally different way. So nothing is a substitute for like the stress that you put on your body. I actually heard Dr. Clapper one time talk about the fact that the game is played so much in gyms that the players might not be getting the vitamin D. Who's Dr. Clapper?

56:20Van Lathan:Why did you say that like everybody would know what that is?

56:24Rob Mahoney:You guys don't listen to the Weekend Warrior show? No. Y 'all know the Weekend Warrior show? So he was talking about the fact that what he thought, and you know, this is one of those things to where, because you guys know I'm hypersensitive to almost everything. So, like, this is one of those things to where I listen to it, and at first I was driving in my car, I was like, what does he mean by that? And then by the end, I was like, oh, he's spitting. So he said that they should pump in UV light into gyms. Yeah. Oh, you like that? No, I don't. That sounds horrible. Why are we pumping in UV light?

56:58Rob Mahoney:This is what Dr. Clapper said. I don't know who that is. Let me cook. Dr. Clapper said that it used to be that a lot of these players who are black, that they would play outside and they would get rays from the sun. And these rays from the sun would strengthen them because they got melanin and what have you. And so they would get stronger bones or whatever. He was like, but what happened was, y 'all laughing, this is what Dr. Clapper said. So he said what happened was they went into gyms and they're not getting as much sun exposure as they need as the original people of planet Earth. You feel what I'm saying?

57:40Rob Mahoney:And so the injuries that you see might be because of that. So he said what they should do is they should put UV lamps inside of gyms to feed the skin, the soul and the bones.

57:53Van Lathan:You guys are all laughing. RFK is definitely appointing this guy. To some really important video. He's going like, this guy wants to put UV lights, and I agree.

58:05Bill Simmons:I mean, so basically they could also just take vitamin D. Wow, Bill. That would help.

58:12Van Lathan:If I was running an NBA team, if I was doing especially the medical department, I'd zag hard and move my practice facility closer to an electrical substation. Oh, like the Niners, yeah. Because pressure makes diamonds. You guys, they'll all turn into Wolverine by the end of six months. Yeah.

58:27Bill Simmons:I thought you were going to say outdoor practice facility suggested by Dr. Clapper.

58:33Rob Mahoney:We're joking, but this is actually like an actual real problem that the league. I'm sorry. When you say Dr.

58:41Bill Simmons:Clapper, I was prepared for any job for him. Like bouncer at a strip club, rapper, doctor.

58:47Rob Mahoney:He was a doctor for the Lakers or something like that. I'm surprised you don't know him. Like Dr.

58:52Bill Simmons:Pepper was a doctor. Like John Clapper. CR, what's the next one? The

58:59Van Lathan:I had coffee with Macaulay half an hour ago award for most dumbfounded reaction. I didn't really have an award for this.

59:09Chris Ryan:You just wanted me to do that line. I have one. This is me when Van told me the Lakers should just straight up cut LeBron at the office. And then tried to explain it.

59:18Bill Simmons:Wait, could you explain? You wanted them to cut LeBron?

59:20Rob Mahoney:Yeah, get him out of here. So would it help the salary cap? I mean, this is my thing. First of all, I love LeBron James. I have to say that. I have to say it. Or else, you know, you won't get invited to image awards and all that stuff. So, like, I love LeBron James. I think LeBron James is a fantastic human being. The right career. The right guy. Great father. Humanitarian. Astronaut. Physicist. Sociologist. All of that stuff. Economist. One time I was sitting down, LeBron was talking about, let me tell you something about Kenzie and economics. I was like, oh, shit.

1:00:00Van Lathan:Was he reading a book in the locker room?

1:00:02Rob Mahoney:Yeah, he said the whole deal, all of it. I just was like, one day I was pissed off. I think maybe I saw two possessions where he went like that. And I was like, you can't have Luka doing like that and LeBron doing like that. And I just called Rob and I said, get him out of here. It was emotional.

1:00:17Bill Simmons:So you cut him, you save salary cap, he goes to a contender, everyone wins.

1:00:22Chris Ryan:Oh, no, this wasn't even a safe salary cap. This was just in the middle of the season in a fit of rage. They just cut LeBron.

1:00:28Rob Mahoney:Yeah, I was just venting to Rob. Like it was Mack McClung. Just like write him off. Well, you know what I wasn't expecting? For the shit to be brought up.

1:00:38Bill Simmons:Appreciate it. All right. Buckle up for this last award for Vincent Hanna section part one, because there's a part two later.

1:00:44Van Lathan:She's got a great ass. And you got your head all the way up it. award for, okay, what drug was this guy on here? I have a subcategory for this, which is from Ricky Martin in this movie. This could also be the, it's a substance abuse problem, brother. Where's your empathy? Where's your empathy, brother? Where's your empathy?

1:01:07Bill Simmons:We found out years later, as research keeps coming out about this movie, that Al Pacino allegedly decided that Vincent Hanna had a cocaine problem. And that he plays him in certain scenes. Like somebody who had just done cocaine explaining the give me all you got. Which we have a pretty confirmed Hank Azaria didn't know that was coming. No. You can see it on his face. Yeah, he's like, what's this guy doing? So what drug was this guy on? It's obviously, this is the Paul George discussion. We still don't know what he did.

1:01:38Van Lathan:Nope. I have some educated guesses. Well, we'll end it there.

1:01:43Bill Simmons:All right. Vincent Hannah is coming back later for part two. Some more quotes. The BJ's at Alvarado at 2 a.m. award for what the hell actually happens there? That place was bussing. BJ's? BJ's. It was what? It was bussing. Two o 'clock.

1:01:59Rob Mahoney:What the fuck are you talking about right now? BJ's at Alvarado. BJ's on Alvarado in K-Town. It's hopping. Yeah. Hopping works better for you. Bussing. okay Bill I'm fucking with it that's what conk and nipple

1:02:13Bill Simmons:I got that from my daughter no my daughter got it that's actually my daughter's thing you brought shout out to Zoe shout out to being here too I put NBA player podcast for this okay because I only see the clips on social and I've never actually listened to any of them and I'm not actually sure what happens in the universe but then occasionally there's four and it just happened on the Jeff Teague pod

1:02:34Van Lathan:where Zaire frankly

1:02:35Bill Simmons:looks like he's going to kill him yeah occasionally Almost a fight is going to break out, and it's two minutes, and then there's an article the next day that everything's fine. And it just seems like it's now this new subculture of media. I watched that whole podcast.

1:02:47Rob Mahoney:It was one of the most entertaining podcasts I ever listened to. Shout out to T for coming back and apologizing. I do not know what T was on that day, but that was a great podcast.

1:02:57Bill Simmons:So he was trying to antagonize a linebacker.

1:03:00Rob Mahoney:And they were having an argument over what sport is, like, what's more meaningful and what's better, like, out of the NBA and the NFL, obviously, two completely different sports with completely different structures. 520 is one of the best podcasts out there. But, like, that was actually interesting content. And I think that's what I kind of dig about the player pods is that they are not media trained. So when it's authentic, it does feel like you're eavesdropping on conversations that people actually have.

1:03:31Bill Simmons:I don't count the Teague one as a quote unquote player podcast because he's a retired athlete. And I think his podcast is pretty unique. Yeah, it is. It is. There's some other ones. That's a really good podcast. It feels like the ones with the actual players are multiplying. I'm more of a thinalysis guy myself. Next one. The Roger Van Zandt. I'm just hanging out watching a college hockey game. and oh my God, help! Shot a word for most unexpected murder. Yeah, did that happen in the NBA season? So the Mavs fans have finally calmed down. Nico Harrison's out. They have Cooper flag. And then it's the one-year anniversary of the Luka trade.

1:04:08Bill Simmons:And it becomes a two-day media story about, hey, it's the one-year anniversary of Luka trade. And they're just Roger Van Zandt hanging out watching some college hockey. And all of a sudden, they're getting shot. The chair's going through the slider and they're getting shot. All right, this is a big one. the Tom Sizemore say thank you Nico the Tom Sizemore for me the action is the juice award for a supporting star throwing a team on its back CR take the stage with Tyrese Maxey

1:04:40Van Lathan:Tyrese Maxey now no longer the supporting star now he's a star I would die for him thank you to the COVID draft for letting him fall into the Sixers Thank you to Daryl Morey for drafting him. Thank you to Vijay Edgecombe, who will play his backcourt partner for 10 years, hopefully. And Joel Embiid, thank you, brother. You can just chill, score 40 a night, do whatever you got to do, take a week off. It's Maxie's time. He did today. He took today off.

1:05:09Bill Simmons:Is he ever first team all-NBA? I feel like he has to be at this point. Yeah, I do too.

1:05:13Van Lathan:You think he's better than Jalen Brunson?

1:05:15Chris Ryan:I do.

1:05:16Van Lathan:Yeah.

1:05:17Rob Mahoney:Sorry. I do. It's a long season. Hey, you right here Who are you a fan of? No, you Yeah, him You're pointing with the black hat right here When I said that, you like that shit Nah, you right here in the front He was like I was peeping what you was He said, I think he's better than Jalen Brunson And you was like, yeah, this motherfucker talking that real shit You like Maxie Are you breaking up for social right now? I'm not breaking up for social I'm watching them I'm watching what's going on right here in the front.

1:05:53Bill Simmons:Can we talk a little Sizemore here? Sure. Talk to my man. We've talked about this on three rewatchables about Heat. It's the famous scene when first it goes to Kilmer and says the bank's worth the risk. Sizemore's like, I don't know if we should do it. He's like, no, no, you got to tell me, Michael, what are we doing? You know, this is your call. Forget about me.

1:06:13Van Lathan:He's like, I'm down with whatever you do.

1:06:15Bill Simmons:And Sizemore does the step back. Yes. And then he does the smile. and it's like he's just chewing up the scenery and it's like our favorite moment in a movie of somebody who's not as big of a star as the person in the scene being like fuck it. I think I'm as good as De Niro. I'm just going for it right here. And this was the highlight of his career. Yeah. Right?

1:06:37Chris Ryan:Yes. Gotta be. I love how there are actors who read as like this guy feels so cerebral or this guy feels so charismatic and you're right, there's like heavyweights in this movie. He reads as like, that's just a solid dude. that guy will just show up for you and give you a ride to the airport even if you're not comfortable. I wouldn't leave your kid with him, but no.

1:06:56Bill Simmons:He did use a child as a shield later during a shootout. Not his child. That's true. Well, we have two awards going to our next guy. It's the Wingrove Memorial. He was making a move. I had to get it on award. With the Henry Rollins Tough Guy Award to the character you'd at least like to piss off at a bar. Both of these go to Isaiah Stewart. Uncontested. we were waiting for the brawl that he was going to be prominently involved with. I think he was waiting for it too. Unfortunately, he wasn't on the court when it happened. And then he had to just take matters into his own hands to get out there anyway.

1:07:32Bill Simmons:Even though we've had 30 plus years of rules of don't leave the bench during a fight. We have coaches jumping, holding the guys back, begging them not to go out. And he was like, fuck it. And it cost them$700 ,000 to go try to beat up Miles Bridges in front of 15 ,000 people. Yeah. Seven games to two. What's the right number, Van?

1:07:55Rob Mahoney:I don't think it was. You know, a lot of people thought that obviously his previous psychotic nature would play into sort of like how this. But when I look back at it, I think our threshold for the vicious NBA fight, we're a little bit more precious by than we used to be. When I saw it, I didn't think it was as big a deal as everybody else did. It just doesn't happen anymore.

1:08:22Bill Simmons:Mouth of the Palace was different.

1:08:23Van Lathan:It was a bunch of guys who wanted to fight. You know what I mean? It wasn't anybody who was like, oh, shit, don't touch Luca. It was like, no. Duran, Diabate, and Beef Stew, and Bridges want to fuck each other up. Get out of the way. Duncan Robinson, get out of the way.

1:08:38Rob Mahoney:Duncan, Duncan, nobody had to tell Duncan. Duncan was like I know what they got over here on the sideline look it might be somebody in the league office that saw him going at Bridges and went knock a couple games off a little justice there

1:08:59Bill Simmons:speaking of

1:09:02Bill Simmons:mentioned this quote before but the Val Kilmer the bank is worth the risk I need it brother I had for this Will Hardy asking Danny Ainge for the Jaron Jackson Jr. trade. I know we're tanking for the fifth straight year. Jaron Jackson's worth the risk. I need it, brother.

1:09:22Van Lathan:Defensive player of the year or something.

1:09:24Bill Simmons:I need it. Just give me a taste. What'd you have, CR?

1:09:26Van Lathan:I had Chauncey Billups looking at an invitation to play cards at someone's house.

1:09:35Chris Ryan:Allegedly. Allegedly. Do you have anything, Rob? James Harden. Cleveland trading for James Harden. Worth the squeeze. Worth the stretch. You got to stretch for it.

1:09:45Bill Simmons:That's fair. The bank robbery. We're here for the bank's money, not yours. Don't try to be a hero award, which is always my favorite line in any movie that has a bank robbery. Before we get to the answer for this, if we're all robbing a bank, what are our jobs? I think Chris has to be the

1:10:02Chris Ryan:mouthpiece. He's the guy in the lobby because we would hit uncharted levels of Stockholm Syndrome if you were taking people hostage?

1:10:11Rob Mahoney:My job is the motherfucker that's going to jail. If I'm robbing a bank with y 'all three? No, no, no. I'm not talking about it. It's a success. Oh, that's like an episode of Star Trek. You know which one.

1:10:24Bill Simmons:No, this is going to succeed in this scenario.

1:10:27Rob Mahoney:Okay, so what would I do if we robbing the bank? I think that I would be like... I'm vibes guy. I would be polite crowd control. Because I'm not aggressive like that. I'll be like good cop People will be like Trying to bug up against you I'll be like Hey chill We're gonna be gone

1:10:43Bill Simmons:We're gonna be gone in one minute Your girl fine as shit I think Sierra hops up Sierra hops up on the I hop up You're for the bank's money Your money's insurance Rob goes and gets the money And I'm driving You do I'm in the car I'm ready to get the fuck out of there

1:10:57Van Lathan:You're a good driver I'm a good driver You don't really rely on GPS I mean I don't know It's been a while Since I've driven with you You're driving I'm fucking driving Yeah And we all get in Khan Knipples are waiting. Khan and I are waiting. You're like, hey, Khan, I'll take you to Santa Monica. I just have to stop down on Wilshire for a second. Do you think your seatbelt thing would be better or worse as a getaway driver? Because Bill doesn't wear his seatbelt a lot. What? Fourth groan of the night. I've been wearing it more. Good. That's great. when Khan's in the car you're like buckle up yeah actually actually he reached over and put Khan's seat belt

1:11:42Rob Mahoney:on for him precious cargo precious cargo baby on board yeah every time they got to a red light somebody didn't stop Bill's like whoa

1:11:53Bill Simmons:he's playing the next night I had to be careful I had the Pelicans for this we're here for the bank's money not yours yeah because you're you know fans from Louisiana They've hit the sweet spot that the old Clippers used to have of, yeah, we're just not going to pay the tax every year. We have a bunch of weird assets and we'll just collect luxury tax from everybody else. And we don't really care how many fans we have at the games. And you can do this in the NBA in a 30 team league. Why are you making a face, Rob?

1:12:22Chris Ryan:I mean, it's a real cool sweet spot. It's what we love is the aspiration that we want of all of our sports teams.

1:12:27Bill Simmons:Yeah. They're just like, we're good. The lease is expiring in three years. We'll see what happens.

1:12:31Rob Mahoney:They have good players.

1:12:33Bill Simmons:They have good assets. But this is what the Clippers did in the 90s and the 2000s. Next award. The Neal's No Furniture Malibu House Award for Cheapest Decoration. I actually got something for this.

1:12:46Van Lathan:Okay. It's coaches wearing track suits. Ah. And this is why I think coaches are getting younger. I think your Jim Boylan's of the world are getting phased out because they don't look good in track suits. Because they would just look like they were in the deli in The Sopranos if they were wearing a track suit.

1:13:03Bill Simmons:Right.

1:13:03Van Lathan:And so it's like only Will Hardy and J.J. Reddick and Charles Lee can rock track suits. And I think it's ageist.

1:13:10Chris Ryan:So the third phase of the interview process is just like quarter zips? Yes. To see what you look like.

1:13:15Van Lathan:It's like, what does it look like when you wear joggers? If we see a little ankle, what happens? Yeah.

1:13:19Bill Simmons:Well, how many of you are watching the Winter Olympics right now? Ooh, tepid response. Well, they're here, so they're not watching it. Well, this week. It's an ice dancing crowd, though. Those luge suits, those luge track suits and the bobsled track suits. You like that shit. Not a lot of room left for the imagination, man. The Franks and Beans are really crammed in there. But yeah, I was thinking that might be the next iteration of NBA coach dress. Nick Nurse in a skin type suit.

1:13:48Rob Mahoney:And now that we're more focused, we're more ass focused than we've ever been before. People are starting to notice. Was it always like this? Was it always like...

1:13:59Bill Simmons:I think the TVs are better.

1:14:00Rob Mahoney:I'm just saying. That's the issue. That's what it is? The HD. Yeah, you're really seeing shit now. You're watching the speed skating. It's like Magic City out there.

1:14:08Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:14:10Rob Mahoney:You mean to tell me it was, hey, Kalika, not to disrespect, but it was like, I never noticed that before. No.

1:14:18Chris Ryan:TVs are better. Van, are you up on the penis inflation controversy and ski jump? Do you know what I'm talking about?

1:14:24Rob Mahoney:Why would you ask me that?

1:14:25Chris Ryan:I feel like you would be.

1:14:26Rob Mahoney:Oh, no, when they're injecting their penises so they can fly further?

1:14:30Chris Ryan:Yeah, so they can have bigger suits for, like, better drag or some shit. Wait a minute. Are they injecting it?

1:14:34Rob Mahoney:Wait, is this an actual scandal? It's an actual scandal. What the hell is going on? I legitimately thought that they were injecting their penises so they looked better in the suit. No, it's for performance.

1:14:43Chris Ryan:It's for performance. So when they get measured for the suit, they have more junk. And then for some reason, having more material is beneficial for the ski jump.

1:14:50Rob Mahoney:That's what I'm talking about.

1:14:53Chris Ryan:That's science.

1:14:54Bill Simmons:That is. You guys are having a good time, I hope.

1:15:01Bill Simmons:Two more awards for another special section. This is the Hank Azaria, who plays Alan Marciano in this movie. Does he look like Alan Marciano to you?

1:15:10Van Lathan:He definitely looks like a liquor wholesaler.

1:15:12Bill Simmons:The Hank Azaria's Alan Marciano Award for Worst Idea to Steadfastly Believe in a Former Lottery Pick. And in this case, that's Ashley Judd, who I think was a lottery pick, but now she has a kid. She's married to a degenerate gambler. Is having kids bad? No, you have the kid. You have a criminal who's probably going to kill you if you fancy you're having an affair with the wife. That one's bad. You're still talking yourself into the lottery pick. This is the John Morant trade decision for a month heading into the trade deadline. This guy was the number two pick in the draft. He was second team on NBA.

1:15:44Bill Simmons:Face of the league for a hot minute. All of a sudden, you're in a hotel room with them at two in the morning. Neil's busting in, yelling at people. That's who I have.

1:15:52Van Lathan:Do you have one for this year? I misinterpreted this, so I just had Benedict Matherin, but I don't think that's what you meant. Just a guy I still believe in.

1:16:01Bill Simmons:Here's a positive one. The final airport chase scene for most underrated moment of the movie or season. And I mentioned the final airport thing because I think people focus on the shootout and the diner scene. And I think the ending of this movie is fucking awesome. I think it's like a big three for me. The way they shoot it with the lights and the planes and it's dark and then the lights come again. Watching Pacino, who's had 28 cigarettes probably that night, chugging through with the gun. He's running the 800. I think that's an awesome scene. It never gets mentioned.

1:16:34Chris Ryan:Oh, it's a banger.

1:16:35Rob Mahoney:Yeah, I think the two scenes are actually dancing with each other. The brutality of the bank robbery scene is kind of indicative of, like, Neil's character is so regimented. regimented he has such morals he has such a point of view that it's difficult to look at him as a villain like as a bad guy but when they get to the bank like you start to there's a couple things that happen in the movie you start to see him like the minute shaharlis sees the cops he opens up he's smiling and then the minute he sees that he just starts to kill and all of the mayhem that they have throughout that scene, like this breathtaking violence, kind of dances a little bit with that.

1:17:22Rob Mahoney:The end of the film is actually kind of intimate. It's like, it's really the same as the coffee scene at the same time. And it's these two guys almost having a conversation.

1:17:33Bill Simmons:Yeah, they find each other at the end. We're both here to do one job. I won, but we both won. Now die.

1:17:39Chris Ryan:But it only works because Vincent Hanna shoots before he sees him. Like he shoots before he looks, he's leaning into that.

1:17:45Rob Mahoney:And by the way, when you're watching that, you're not quite sure who you want to get. This is Bill's thing. You don't know who you want to die in that scene. And I still watch it and I'm like, you know, actually, I wish Vincent would have took a bunch of time.

1:18:00Bill Simmons:I have some nitpicks after seeing this movie 130 times. I feel like Neil could have made some better decisions on the sprint. Yeah, obviously. He had a big 50-yard lead. He's got a wide airport. There's all these places to hide. I don't know how he gets caught. No, no, no, no.

1:18:12Rob Mahoney:It makes absolutely zero sense. 0-6. He should have gotten away. That Vincent could have found Neil he doesn't know where he went. They just cut two and he's on his tail. They don't explain it.

1:18:23Bill Simmons:I think in real life Vincent's chasing him for, I don't know, two minutes and then has to stop and coughs up. That's a massive heart attack. And then dies. So anyway, for this award, most underrated moment in movie or season, I think it's that we have San Antonio and Oklahoma City and Denver and Minnesota looming as this awesome Final Four in the West. I consider San Antonio a legitimate threat. I think you do too. I'm still in on Minnesota, even though it's always hard to trust them. But I think with Edwards and the team they have, and then the other two, and I don't know how it's going to be one through four, two through three in the playoffs, but it's going to be awesome.

1:19:01Bill Simmons:Like really, really high end. So, all right. Special section. This is the Edie the Librarian Award for most red flags you've ever ignored when you're falling in love.

1:19:14Van Lathan:She worked at a bookstore. What was she? You did a bookstore, lady, whatever she was.

1:19:18Bill Simmons:For most red flags.

1:19:18Van Lathan:Side hobby of graphic design, that's not a big deal.

1:19:21Bill Simmons:Went to Parsons. Most red flags you've ever ignored when you're falling in love. Her first exchange with him starts like this. What are you reading? A book about metals. What kind of work do you do? Lady, why are you so interested in what I read or what I do. That's her introduction to this man. He tells her he's in sales as he's reading a book about stress fractures in titanium. Yep. Then she asks about his family and he tells her the following three things. My father died a long time ago. I don't know where my mother is. I got a brother somewhere. She asks if he has anyone, if he's dating, and he says, I am alone.

1:20:09Bill Simmons:I'm not lonely. They have sex. She falls asleep. He leaves. But not before he gives her a glass of water bedside that has a paper towel wrapped around it so there won't be fingerprints. And he has a place with no furniture. And she's like, I'm hooked. This is my guy.

1:20:27Rob Mahoney:There's only one thing you're leaving out.

1:20:29Bill Simmons:What is it?

1:20:29Rob Mahoney:This is in Los Angeles. This is the first non-actor bullshit, halfway eligible guy that she's met in a long time. Mid-level guy at CA. Yeah. She's just so happy that he didn't say, fuck it, man. I got this fucking pilot for this medical show coming up and I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do. So she saw him like cowboy, salt of America guy. She's like, I'm in.

1:20:55Van Lathan:So who's your MBA person for this? James Harden. Yeah.

1:21:01Bill Simmons:The Cavaliers are, they look at it, they look at it, they look at it. at some point, the person who's in charge of convincing somebody else to make the trade is like, don't look at his basketball reference in the playoffs part. They keep pushing. They're like, he's got more size. More size than Garland. We'll be able to have more flexibility. He'll be able to get some more assist. And all of a sudden, you have James Harden on your team in round two in a game six where he shoots three for 21. Are we getting to the point

1:21:29Rob Mahoney:where James Harden is an underrated asset?

1:21:33Bill Simmons:Like there's a redemption coming from him.

1:21:35Rob Mahoney:So, like, obviously, the narrative about James Harden's career, it's, you know, it's well-documented and you can, it's not like it's not true. But at this point, that motherfucker's a badass basketball player.

1:21:47Bill Simmons:The problem is we did this last year, and then in Game 7, he did not look at the rim for the first hour of the game.

1:21:54Chris Ryan:But we don't do this about Deere and Fox, or, like, the guys who have never really been in those games. Like, James Harden gets scrutiny because he goes deep in the playoffs. every time he's not a clipper, basically.

1:22:04Van Lathan:See, are you rooted for James Harden? The honeymoon's amazing. I think he should only sign nine-month deals. And every year he's on another cool team, random, like Cleveland. And it's just like, Harden's on the Pacers. Let's fucking go. And it's just like, if that would be an exciting subplot to any NBA season is that James Harden only has three more weeks in his contract sweepstakes. What's going to happen? Like, where's he going? Is he going to Real Madrid? Like, who knows?

1:22:34Bill Simmons:Yeah, you could see with the Cavs-Denver game the other day, like, they beat Denver, and they're all celebrating and congratulating each other, and it's like, oh, we're in the real honeymoon phase right now. Daryl Morey's, like, first time. Yeah. Speaking of people you rooted for, the Wayne Grow escaping a padded trunk award for most improbable escape from certain death. I think we got to do Embiid here. Yeah, man. Do you believe?

1:22:59Van Lathan:Put some respect on his name. Yeah, I believe. look at those numbers. He's incredible. He's playing on one leg. We don't know what's wrong with the other leg, but still. I think that the thing I've kind of come to with Embiid is that because of the next generation of Sixers looking pretty good, that he's like an incredible added bonus. So I hope he's happy. I don't really understand what's happened over the last three years, but he on any given night can go for 40. This episode is brought to you by

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1:25:03Bill Simmons:I'm going to skip through the You Don't Live With Me, You Live With The Remains of Dead People Award and the Dominic Scherherlis Award for the young kid who has no chance whatsoever. That award as well. Sorry, I'm running out of breath there. Let's go to the Chris Scherherlis award for single worst gambler of the 2025-26 season. There's some candidates. Do we know if Roger went like... Oh, we're actually literally talking about gamblers. The worst gambler. I think it's Billups though, right? I mean, those games were rigged, so he was winning. Yeah, but he ended up losing his job. He's never going to...

1:25:38Bill Simmons:Look how uncomfortable everybody is. You don't like the gambling thing. I want to talk about Chris as a gambler, though. So, There were two Super Bowls in the last 50 years where Vegas lost and got killed. One of them was Chargers Niners. The 94 Super Bowl. Niners were favored by 18 and a half. Everybody bet the Niners, and then they won, and every bet with them won. This is the Super Bowl that Chris got cleaned out on when he has to. So he's obviously the worst game of all time.

1:26:08Rob Mahoney:Chris is a fucking moron.

1:26:09Bill Simmons:Chris is a dad that was like Stan Humphreys. I'm in.

1:26:11Rob Mahoney:Like Humphreys and Nature on Means and all that. Everybody knew. even my grandmama was like, oh, Steve Young about to bust them boys' ass. Chris is stupid. I never thought about that. This is why I fucked with the pod. I never thought about how dumb Chris is. This whole time I felt bad for him.

1:26:28Bill Simmons:Now he's the easiest Super Bowl we've had in the last 30 years. Chris got smoked. He's selling everything. Speaking of Chris, the cop who let Chris go outside the park, even though he looked exactly like Chris Award, even though Chris had just been in a high-profile bank shootout 36 hours earlier. This is for the worst job by anybody this season award, or we could go most incompetent character. So two people from the movie. You could go this guy or the OAPD guy guarding Wayne Grove's hotel room.

1:26:58Van Lathan:That was just a hotel security guy, I think.

1:27:01Bill Simmons:Who did a worst job out of those two?

1:27:03Van Lathan:Clearly the hotel security guy, because he had one job.

1:27:06Chris Ryan:What about the cop who set, like, alerts them to the bus by sitting down too hard? I feel like that guy really bad. Oh, the guy who hit his rifle. Oh, yeah, he was bad, too.

1:27:14Rob Mahoney:You know what? I'm going to go with the cop that lets Chris go. First of all, they are in an active... It's an active stakeout. They're looking for Chris. Chris cuts his hair. He stops. The cop goes, that can't be him. Let him go. And Bubba from Forrest Gump, he didn't do anything better. He just let the fuck... That would never fucking happen.

1:27:37Van Lathan:I think he was starting to feel for Charlene, though. I think he was just like, I want to give her a break. Bubba? Yeah, I think he knew that she kind of gave him the no-go sign. Oh, shit. I feel like it. I think he has...

1:27:48Bill Simmons:Oh, I don't think that at all. I think this was abject incompetence. They're like, his ID says he's from New Mexico. Meanwhile, he's got the same hair. All of this stuff, man. Take him in and fingerprint. I'm not rooting for the police, but yeah, anyway. I think the winner for this award for most incompetent character, basically, Joe Dumas is not putting the top three protection on the pick, which we've talked about forever. is there another one of the worst records in the league and there's a real chance that might be a

1:28:15Chris Ryan:top three pick is there another room in america right now where joe dumar is not protecting the pick enough would get applause people yeah uh all right a couple more here the let's have a big

1:28:27Bill Simmons:family and friends dinner right after we just committed a huge heist that led to three dead bodies a word for single worst idea they just committed this they're on the news all over the place. They're like, you guys like Italian? Open table. There's a reservation for eight. This was Chris Paul's retirement tour. Yeah.

1:28:48Van Lathan:His homecoming.

1:28:48Bill Simmons:Just say it's your last year. Maybe don't say this is going to be a tour when you don't know how it's going to work. What'd you have, CR?

1:28:56Van Lathan:I think that the Brooklyn Nets drafting like five international point cards was kind of weird. Well, it seems like that was a tanking strategy. Yeah, I guess so, but it's tough for those guys' career.

1:29:05Chris Ryan:Do you have one, Rob? The Magic doing nothing at the deadline, just sitting on their hands. I guess that's good enough that they're going to be a middling to bad team and they're just going to hang with that. Lost to Cam Thomas tonight.

1:29:19Bill Simmons:The, oh, this is a good one. The Al Pacino's Asian Stunt Double Award for funniest in-season glitch. So when they go to get Henry Rollins, and you can see it now that the TVs are clearer, a stuntman plays Pacino jumping on Henry Rollins. Yes. And it's, I can't believe they didn't do another take of it. Honestly. Michael Mann was just like, TVs will never get better. It's the funniest freeze frame of the movie. So funniest in-season glitch. Should we do the white guy revolution here? Sure, man. Why not? Nick right on my podcast yesterday was calling for it, Van.

1:30:00Rob Mahoney:Yeah. The white guy versus black guy all-star game? I've never heard an idea that I like more. Nick is out of this world right now. I love it. Nick's going his fucking back. Let's do it. Let's do three different levels of it. Let's do it with the all-stars. Then let's do it with the rookies. Oh, that's a good idea. Let's do it. And let's just make it about this. Because it is about that anyway.

1:30:21Van Lathan:It should be an entire team of dudes named Luke. Yeah. Like, that's it? Yeah. I'm fucking with it.

1:30:27Bill Simmons:What guy in the black team tries the hardest? Probably like a Russell Westbrook.

1:30:33Rob Mahoney:Russell out there going. He demands to be in the game. Yeah, Russell. And here's the thing about this, because I know that, Bill, you guys are feeling now that, you know, things have changed and you're going to have your shot at it and all of that stuff like that. I'm telling you, if you, it depends on how you look at this, right? Because if you do all the black guys against the white guys, all-stars and you let the black players have their international players, the white players are getting ran. If that's another team. If you take the international brothers out, which sometimes we do. Is that kind of Canada?

1:31:11Rob Mahoney:Canada out. I don't know if you know, but there was a whole rap situation that's been happening over the last couple of years. But we've even relitigated that. We're not sure anymore. Okay. Then the game gets kind of interesting. But I'm telling you right now, if you put Russell Westbrook in front of a just got to Santa Monica after a 30 minute drive. Nice and relaxed. Yeah. Westbrook is going fucking apeshit. After everything I've been through, I'm not about to let you bust my ass with that police ass haircut. You know what I'm saying? So that game would be, Nick is right. That game would fix it.

1:31:57Van Lathan:I don't know who would win the game. It would honestly, it would do better ratings than the Super Bowl. It would just be like 100%. Even people who never watch basketball would be like, what? I got to see this.

1:32:11Rob Mahoney:But see, here's the deal, though. What you want to do around the game is you want to put in a bunch of different cultural fail-safes to make sure this doesn't go too far, right? Because, like... So, like, Isaiah Stewart plays for the white guys? No, at the beginning of the... What I mean is, like, at the beginning of the game, you know, you got the players on one side, you got the players on the other side, you got to have, like, I don't know, Obama and Ryan Gosling meet at center court. Why is Ryan Gosling our representative? That's the coolest white boy y 'all got.

1:32:44Chris Ryan:I don't think we can do any better than that. Ryan Gosling's number one?

1:32:48Rob Mahoney:Everybody else got...

1:32:49Van Lathan:Who would you have be the celebrity coaches?

1:32:52Rob Mahoney:I'm saying it would have to be like Obama for the black. Oh, I thought they were just representing a coin toss. Nah, man, all the black guys are going to play hard for Obama. Or they're going to play hard for Obama. And then the white guys, you have Gosling. Who would y 'all want? Who would y 'all want? Y 'all going to say somebody vaguely problematic? Who would the white guys play the hardest for? No, who would be the white guy's coach? Who?

1:33:16Van Lathan:Timothy Chalamet. Timothee Chalamet.

1:33:18Rob Mahoney:Timothee Chalamet playing with us. Yeah, he doesn't have any part of our team. Y 'all going to get Timothee Chalamet out there. Y 'all going to pass on the ball. He's going to be missing shots. Then looking back at the black people like, gotcha.

1:33:29Van Lathan:It would be Sean Penn, but as Lockjaw.

1:33:36Rob Mahoney:Hey, that would be the name of the white guy's team, the Christmas Adventurers. Yeah. That would be their team.

1:33:44Bill Simmons:One more. I'm talking to an empty telephone because there's a dead man on this fucking line of word for single best threat. I have the Spurs. Because we know OKC and Denver, those are two best teams. And the Spurs are just kind of lingering. They're smoldering in the background. And I don't know what they are.

1:34:01Van Lathan:They're this good. And I don't think it's near as good as they can be.

1:34:04Bill Simmons:Yeah, we don't know what this is. But we've seen it with the 86 Rockets. They came out of nowhere. The 95 Magic. Like, we've seen these young teams that are just like, we're here.

1:34:14Rob Mahoney:The Thunder do not want to see the Spurs come in. They just, the Spurs have figured out a way to gel and really present real problems to OKC, man.

1:34:24Chris Ryan:But it's good for them. Like, the Spurs existing is good. In the same way we're talking about, they don't have that internal drama. They don't have a lot of, like, storytelling. But if the Spurs are this amazing, I think we're going to like the Thunder more even if they win.

1:34:36Bill Simmons:I have good news for you guys. It's time for the next Vincent Hanna section, part two. Oh, yeah. CR is back. He's taking a big swing of water. You thought you were done hearing him do Pacino. You're not.

1:34:48Van Lathan:Okay, so this is a two-parter? No, you're doing the second part. Okay. By the time I get to Phoenix, he'll be rising. He'll probably leave a note right on the door. Give me that again! Award goes to...

1:35:06Bill Simmons:Oh, that's got to go to Matt Ishpia, right? Anyone else on The Suns? Would you do Devin Brooker? yeah we could do Devin Booker quick question what is this award we don't know it was an excuse for he just wanted him to do the Phoenix thing

1:35:20Van Lathan:go to the next one don't waste my motherfucking time award this goes to having our time wasted

1:35:28Bill Simmons:this goes to the Giannis story ultimately we got a lot of content out of it I certainly led my podcast a few times with Giannis traits you guys did as well every pod. And ultimately it was just completely meaningless and nothing happened and then he signed up with Kalshi the next day. And that's how it played out. Cool, cool, cool, cool.

1:35:49Van Lathan:My life's a disaster zone. I got a stepdaughter so fucked up because her real father's this large type asshole. I got a wife. We're passing each other on the downslope of a marriage. My third. Because I spend all my time chasing guys like you around the block. That's my life. award. And this is a really good one. This is Pat. This is Pat Riley. I was thinking somebody heat related.

1:36:22Bill Simmons:Pat Riley or...

1:36:23Van Lathan:Pat Riley doomed to chase unicorns in a league he actually hates. Where he's just... Every quote is just like, they don't fucking do it the way we used to do it in the 80s. And then he's just like, but I guess I have to pretend like Damien Lillard might come here, you know? Yeah,

1:36:38Bill Simmons:you get the feeling when you have dinner with Pat Riley, he has like one drink. We're in the entrees and he just starts talking about when LeBron left in 2014. At the first sign of adversity, he left and I hate this league and I don't know why we're like this anymore. And then the waiter comes over and is like, Pat, another glass? He's like, yes. I would love another glass. Yeah, I think that's the answer. Next one. The, you know what they're looking at? Us. The LAPD police department.

1:37:08Van Lathan:Ha! Okay, motherfucker! Award. I got one for this. This is... The Thunder finding out that they are slowly becoming villains with all this Lou Dort shit and Jay flopping. And now Thunder fans are litigating calls. I mean, like, well, if you go back to this, you can see Jake Laravia bumps him. And it's like, that's just not going to earn you casual fans or neutral fans. And I think we're about to see a little bit of a turn in the narrative. I think they're going to become annoying.

1:37:43Bill Simmons:Yeah, people are tired of everybody doing the post-game interview together. It's like, fuck, just pick one guy. Stop it. The entire league is tired of Presti, hearing how great Presti is compared to everybody else. What else, Rob? Plus, they have all these picks, including the Clippers. I still kind of like them. I got to be honest with you guys. Rob's just a basketball appreciator. All right, two more. What do you got?

1:38:06Van Lathan:You know, you can ball my wife if she wants you to. You can lounge around here on her sofa in her ex-husband's dead tech post-modernistic bullshit house if you want to. But you do not get to watch my fucking television set.

1:38:26Bill Simmons:Give it up, y 'all. Come on, man. Come on. Award. Award. I have Raptors fans for this because we haven't mentioned them the entire podcast and I think they got pissed 20 minutes ago. It's the most sensitive fan base we have. All right, one more. The Bon Voyage, motherfucker. You were good. Award. This has to be the Pacers, right? We had them in the finals. They Bon Voyage. They're executing a flawless tanking season. They traded for Zubats. Hal Burton's coming back and they're probably one of the lead contenders of 27. They'll be right back. They're going to be awesome. Even though they suck, they still own the Knicks.

1:39:08Van Lathan:They still own them. They had nobody in the game the other night. I had Durant's failing body language. Yeah. And him sadly standing in the corner. One of the all-time crash outs was when we got to see Sun Spurs in Texas. I believe that was last season.

1:39:24Bill Simmons:It was.

1:39:25Van Lathan:And just watching him motherfuck Buddenholzer for an entire game. and I don't think he's going to do that with Imei, but I am clocking his body language. It doesn't seem great.

1:39:36Chris Ryan:Well, speaking of people motherfucking other people, what about Draymond Green's last ride as a warrior? Could this be it?

1:39:42Van Lathan:Yeah,

1:39:44Bill Simmons:being in trade rumors for the first time. And then Mike Dunleavy's like the Warriors GM. He wasn't in trade rumors and they were like, well, who was in the trade rumors? Well, I can't talk about it. And it was an unbelievable non-denial. All right, we have two more awards. These are the big ones. The Roger Van Zandt Award. Van Sant or Van Zandt? I believe the S is pronounced like a Z, yeah. The Roger Van Zandt Award for most comically bad performance from a management figure. Thank God the Kings are back in our life, Rob. Scott Perry, yeah. I missed it. I was happy for their fans during the two Light the Beam seasons when we had some competent Kings basketball in a playoff series, but honestly, it's kind of fun to have them back, Rob.

1:40:32Chris Ryan:When is the next time the Kings will be good?

1:40:35Van Lathan:A long time. They didn't trade anybody.

1:40:38Chris Ryan:Will we get the big one before the Kings win a playoff series again?

1:40:41Van Lathan:I would be worried legitimately if they had the number one pick that Darren Peterson would be like, Cramps, I'm not doing this. He does that every other game now.

1:40:51Bill Simmons:Eternal cramps. It's brutal. I think even if they got a lottery pick, it would still be a couple years from them. What's crazy is they have a team that's so bad that the tanking is just play the guys you have on the team. Who are legitimately good NBA players.

1:41:07Van Lathan:Yeah, it's like, guys, we're tanking.

1:41:09Bill Simmons:Just go out and do your thing and we'll probably lose. Is this not our guy Adam Silver?

1:41:15Chris Ryan:Is he not the comically bad managerial figure of the season? Wow. I mean...

1:41:22Van Lathan:Bill might have some dinners this weekend. You know, you got to watch out.

1:41:26Chris Ryan:A third of the teams are tanking. Yeah. Everybody's hurt.

1:41:28Van Lathan:Multiple huge controversies that he has not really spoken to.

1:41:32Rob Mahoney:Off the court issues like that strike directly at the heart of the competition of the game.

1:41:38Chris Ryan:Yep. Huge. Like, no one can watch their local broadcasts in a lot of markets. No one wants to watch the regular season. Yeah. Like, the league is in a really awful place, and no one seems to want to do anything about it.

1:41:48Rob Mahoney:You know what's funny is how quickly did this change? The first month, month and a half, two months, maybe even three months of the season, everyone was talking about how awesome things were. How many awesome players we had. How many awesome players we were. The coverage was being lauded everywhere. The studio teams and new places that were covering it and stuff. Now, it just kind of wears on me. I got to go five different places to watch the games, all of this stuff. It seems like it's coming apart.

1:42:15Bill Simmons:But then the cycle comes back to the playoffs when we're like, basketball, this is fucking awesome. Yeah, for sure. So we're in the dark days.

1:42:23Van Lathan:We've talked a lot about tanking, but let me throw an idea at you. You tell me it would be bad for our company, but it would be interesting to see the effect of the league if we got rid of the midseason trade deadline. I know it would be very hard for teams to improve or to replace guys that got hurt, but I felt like the trade deadline talk started earlier than ever this year. Giannis dominated it. It was all bullshit. it. What if you just removed the transactional part from the middle of the season? It was like, your team is your team. You can sign guys off the street. You can have guys in the G League, but you cannot trade for Giannis or Harden in the middle of the season because you didn't like what you did in the summer.

1:42:58Van Lathan:I thought you liked content, CR. I do, but to the point of Vans making, pretty much when we started talking about trades is when everybody was like, yeah, we better just sell the farm on this team. The season's too long.

1:43:10Bill Simmons:We've been saying it every year. This is a real crisis. I did a podcast, part of it about it yesterday. And I was texting with a couple of people about it today. And one of the best arguments I've heard. So in the NFL, they might add an extra game, right? None of us think it's a good idea. We're going to an 18 game season, 19 weeks. It feels inevitable. It's not great. I don't think it's like, it's not an idea. I'd be like, this is the dumbest thing ever. I'm never watching football anymore. Can you imagine at the NBA, we're like, we're actually, we're going to go to 88 games. We're adding six.

1:43:46Bill Simmons:Who would think this was a good idea? Everybody would be like, this is the dumbest thing. You're adding games, you dumb motherfuckers? They should be taking games away and going to 66 to 70 should be the length. And it's just clear as day. And they're not doing it because of money. And that's it. And they've made so much money from the media deals and all this other stuff.

1:44:06Van Lathan:I do think that there are certain in-game things like with the replays and the way the end of games generally play out. If they fix that, I wouldn't be so mad about the 82 games. If the ends of games just felt like they had more flow. It feels like they're getting worse. Yeah.

1:44:20Bill Simmons:Yeah. Last award. This is it. Don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner award. I mean, we got to do the Lakers and LeBron here, right? You have to do it for Lakers and LeBron. Why is it just me? But this is LeBron's last Lakers season. So, first of all, he's been here longer than... He's been here twice as long as I think he was with Miami. He won a title. So how do we feel about LeBron and the Lakers eight years in?

1:45:00Van Lathan:Yeah, it's like, it's a little bit... Do you guys, Lakers fans in the crowd, LeBron statue? But everyone has a statue.

1:45:10Chris Ryan:Kalen Horton Tucker has a statue out there.

1:45:16Bill Simmons:Yeah, I mean, would you put him in the Kareem, Magic, Kobe? It's a weird one. It's been an amazing thing to have him on the team, but it's in this weird spot now. I think after Kareem, Magic, and Kobe, Jerry West, Elja Baylor. Okay. Shaq. You keep going and going, Shaq. Yeah. Yeah, we're going and going. Nick Young.

1:45:38Van Lathan:Yeah. I think that thing that...

1:45:42Bill Simmons:When I think about the Laker run he had, the weirdest part was that they won the title in that crazy COVID year. And I think they probably would have won the title anyway. Like, if you remember what was happening right before COVID, it was them and the Clippers and the Bucks who hadn't really done anything. But we were really like, holy shit. This is finally going to happen. We're going to get LA versus LA for real. And then COVID happened. The bubble. he wins with no fans there's no parade after and it was just a weird one and Rich thinks it's the best title anyone ever won because of mental warfare no I don't think you can compare it to any other title that's ever happened because nobody's ever been in that situation before

1:46:25Rob Mahoney:it's interesting about LeBron I was talking to my grandma one time I'm sorry guys I tell stories I'm sorry, talking to my grandmother one time and my grandmother was really involved in civil rights throughout her entire life. And when I was a kid, I was talking to her about Martin Luther King Jr. I'm not comparing the two guys, but she said that it's different when you were living. When you were living through it, like y 'all look at it now and their statues and their birthdays and their days like that and history looks at the guy in a certain way. She's like, when you were living through it, people had opinions.

1:47:00Rob Mahoney:People had opinions about whether or not he should be doing this in this way. people had opinions about whether or not they liked them there was all kinds of ways people wanted to go do it this way people want to do it that way but you don't have to go through any of that you just look at what actually happened in the history of it i think as people get further away from lebron james's career the only thing that they're going to remember is most points ever uh for championships they're going to see all of that stuff but when you live through it it was a little staccato it never really felt like this unbridled unassailable dominance or it always felt like there was some other bullshit that got in the way it was just it was never quite what you thought it was going to be and that's not saying that he hasn't been consistently great because he has but when you're going through it the championship is there the championship is in the bubble as nba players against playing against nba players you still got to respect it but then there's all other stuff there's the drafting of brawny there's all kinds of stuff that's in the middle of it there's the decision there's just stuff that just stopped him from being the unassailable like completely dominant figure that you felt like he should have been i don't know how

1:48:11Chris Ryan:to explain any better than that but he is kind of unassailable you know i think your point about how it feels different in the moment is totally true and lebron has dealt with more opinion in the moment than any superstar ever just like the pure volume of shit that is talked about with him all the time yeah i think it's completely unparalleled and for him to do that and still be this successful like he did win a title here like you you can call it whatever it is you can throw an asterisk you can think it's impressive or not he did what he set out to do as a laker but it is complicated

1:48:40Bill Simmons:i think the stuff he's doing now i'm i'm the most amazed at with how many years he's been in the league and you just see him take over games still it's like how is this still happening it's like It just breaks your brain.

1:48:51Rob Mahoney:I'm just, I'm not in any way trying to hate it. I'm just saying, but think about this. Think about the cultural capture that Kobe Bryant, with all the problems that Kobe Bryant had off the court. Yeah. And I'm not just talking about any of this stuff. I'm talking about like just conversations about Kobe's personality. Like Phil Jackson talking about Kobe.

1:49:12Bill Simmons:Phil Jackson writing books about how awful it was to go.

1:49:14Rob Mahoney:And think about, like, when I first got here, there was a real black versus Mexican thing that was going on. It happened. It was a thing. People was like, yo, if you see somebody with tattoos on their neck, get on the ground, they're going to kill you. And so, but you would see the Lakers were this, like, bonding kind of thing between black and brown people. If you saw somebody with a Kobe jersey on, you knew they was kind of cool. There was this thing in the city. There was this kind of, like, I can't even explain it. And Kobe Bryant was able to do that and able to be this guy that inspired a generation of basketball players despite everything that went on off the court.

1:49:53Rob Mahoney:LeBron James, perfect off the court, but there's something missing. And I'm not trying to be a hater at all.

1:50:00Bill Simmons:I'm just saying there always kind of has been. Well, do you think in 2018, if he had to do it over again, CR, would he stay in Cleveland or would he come here?

1:50:10Van Lathan:I think that his career has just been defined by the movement so much that it seems like... It made sense for him to come here. He would be like... And I also just think his relationship with Dan Gilbert seems so contentious that it was going to be an exit. I wish, just for the sake of the theater, that it had been the Knicks, just to watch him at the Garden. And I say that as a Sixers fan.

1:50:33Bill Simmons:We might get that next year, by the way.

1:50:35Van Lathan:Yeah. I mean, I don't know. You think I, that's what I was going to ask you is, is like, what's the, what's the last chapter? If this is the end of the,

1:50:41Bill Simmons:there's no way he's quitting yet. Cause we just lived through this with Tom Brady. He's too good. And as long as you're good enough to keep doing this, you're going to keep doing it. You're not going to be like, yeah, I could do this. How, how creative could he get? Would he, could he go to the thunder? I think he goes back to Cleveland. I think, I think this, that would be where money would be. Yeah. And they are a good team. He'd have a chance to win the title there. Yeah. Vegas won't be probably operational. Yeah. we go, do you want CR to redo one quote? One Pacino quote? Just redo one and then we're out.

1:51:14Bill Simmons:Which one do you want, Van? You want to do... I'm not doing Wayne Jenkins. You want to do Wayne?

1:51:21Van Lathan:No, I don't. Is there a quote from Heat that you want me to do? Great ass. Oh, yeah. She's got a great ass! And you got your head all the way up it!

1:51:36Bill Simmons:Thanks. That was for Michelob Ultra. Thanks for helping us out. Michelob Ultra, you got a great ass. Thanks to Chris Ryan, Van Lath, Rob Moni. Thanks to everybody for sticking with us. We had a great time. Appreciate it. Thank you.

1:52:06Don't have feelings with them.

1:52:36Bill Simmons:800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York for Louisiana. Call 877-770-7867. This episode is brought to you by Tax Act. Like an expert coach, Tax Act offers step-by-step guidance and guaranteed accuracy when filing taxes. Get tips along the way, add expert assist to talk to tax experts and let our experts do your taxes for you with expert full service. Tax Act helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details.

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