“Is This Real?” NFL Questions and Summer Scuttlebutt With Dianna Russini

20:08Bill Simmons:Well, the second time is almost more impressive than the first time because you know the second time what's in store. The first time you don't know, you're like climbing some mountain you've never climbed. You have no idea what's happening, what's going to happen to you physically. The second time, you know what's going to happen when you're still doing it. I think that's worse, right?

20:30Dianna Russini:Absolutely. I remember thinking, I cannot believe I have to do this again. I mean, It's probably why I didn't have a third.

20:35Bill Simmons:That's why we didn't have a third. My wife was like, I'm out. Not never doing this again. Yeah, I know.

20:40Dianna Russini:Someone just said to me over the weekend, actually, it was like, hey, if I just put a baby in your hand right now, would you want a third? I'm like, absolutely. Even though like my house is a tornado at all times of the day with, you know, two working parents and, you know, I don't have a schedule. Right. When you're a reporter covering the NFL, you don't you know, you're just you just got to be on all the time. um yet i'm still like if i just didn't have to carry that baby again and and go through the trauma of pushing that baby out like game on let's do this thing um and by the way i was i mean not saying that this should make a difference but i was a division one athlete you know like it's not like i went in there overweight or or you know just the bomb that hasn't like worked out in 40 years, like, like I'm fairly fit.

21:28Dianna Russini:You know, I was like, this can't be that bad, but I guess 12 minutes isn't so bad. I shouldn't probably be so hard.

21:34Bill Simmons:That's amazing. Yeah. Well, my kids are way older than yours. I'm at the point now where I wish I had appreciated all the more. I wish we'd had more kids. My wife's always like, well, we never would have had three. So it's not like you were carrying it. She's doing that whole thing. And it's like, all right, I get it. But I wish we had a third one.

21:49Dianna Russini:Come to the, come to the beach with us this next, this upcoming week and just spend two hours with a three and two year old. You'll be running back to your kids, kissing them, hugging them, having a cocktail with them. Like, I love you. I know.

22:01Bill Simmons:I do feel that sometimes on an airplane, when you see that vacant, terrified look on the parents' faces because they're flying with their little kids and they just kind of, it's almost like they just have dark eyes. They're just like dead inside because they're like, this is going to be five hours. Everyone on the plane is going to hate me. My one kid here is already melting down. Just shoot me in the head. And I know that look because I had it many times.

22:27Dianna Russini:Tight butt season is what we call that. Like your butt just tight the whole time because you're just, you don't even know what it's going to be, but you know what it's going to be and you're embarrassed and it's just all.

22:37Bill Simmons:Yeah, you're hoping for the miracle that nothing happens in the plane, but you know something's going to happen.

22:41Dianna Russini:The thing that I've been experiencing is like if I see a football fan, like someone that wants to talk football when we're traveling. And now I'm horrified because I just talked to this person, right? They either follow or they've read stuff or they've seen me on TV and that's cool. But now they're going to probably judge me as a mom and Mikey and Joey are lunatics. Like you would think they drink coffee as kids. So then I get just even more tense. You know, it's the whole, the whole mix of it is really stressful. So that's why I don't know if you're like this when you travel, but when I'm traveling without them and I see moms, like I just, I try not to look, the kids are crying.

23:21Dianna Russini:I try to help. Whatever I can do, just send the vibe like, dude, you got this, got this.

23:27Bill Simmons:We, we traveled, my buddy Joe House got married, I think in 08. So my daughter was not even, she's three and a half. My son was maybe one. And on the way back, he got married in Martha's Vineyard, in the Martha's Vineyard airport and my daughter pulled the fire alarm and it was just, and then started crying and it was loud. And then my other son started crying cause it was loud, but she was crying cause she thought she was going to jail. And I was like, this has to be it. This is, has to be a 10 out of 10 for worst travel experience. We hadn't even flown anywhere yet. And we had already started like a, like a Cape Cod incident.

24:05Hey, speaking of panic, how about that transition?

24:09Bill Simmons:Um, we're going to play a game called For Real. I'm going to give you different storylines. And then at the end, you're going to give me two. But I want to start with, I didn't put this on the docket for you, but there was a clip today of Caleb Williams looking just terrible. So my first For Real is Caleb Williams panic time. Is this for real? Are you buying this yet? Give me your take.

24:37Dianna Russini:i'm gonna say not real for now um i think first of all it's early okay this is his third play caller that we've seen him have right if you count the interim situation there that we saw with thomas brown when he took over um and look this is a player that thrived so much right on those freelance kind of off script plays at usc we saw it that's that's probably why he went number and overall. So I just think now the challenge is going to be, can he conform, right? Can he adjust to that detailed structure of the plays, the timing, the quick decisions, the things that we saw Ben Johnson do so well with Jared Goff, right?

25:20Dianna Russini:Which is, I think you've seen too, like a lot of stories now being said, like the Chicago Bears offense is not going to be the Detroit Lions one. I think the Chicago Bears coaching staff is purposely saying that because I don't think they're going to be equipped just yet to look like that. I think the idea is there. It's just going to take a little bit more time. So I don't think it's time to panic. I just think Chicago Bears fans are just going to need a little bit more patience because the details that Ben Johnson needs to, the details that he needs Caleb Williams to pay attention to and be good at, I just think it may take a little bit more time.

26:00Dianna Russini:Whereas we're going to constantly compare them to Jaden and Drake. What's a little bit more time?

26:05Bill Simmons:Is that two months or is that two years? I guess that's a question for me.

26:12Dianna Russini:I think two months. I think, look, the guy is probably guzzling this coaching in terms of taking in so much, right? We got to give him a chance to understand it, compute it.

26:26Bill Simmons:This is too rational of an answer. I mean, I admire it.

26:30Dianna Russini:I don't know if you wanted me to come on and be like, oh, by the way, you should be panicked because he ain't the brightest guy. You're pulling me back.

26:36Bill Simmons:You're pulling me back to reality.

26:39Dianna Russini:Yeah, like chill out.

26:40Bill Simmons:All the Bears fans I know are losing their minds right now. Like all of them. And it wasn't just like the training camp. It was the stuff from the Wickersham book. And there's just some kernels of like, you know, Jared Goff, you're basically accentuating the strengths he has. You're making him like this somewhat of a system quarterback, right? Caleb's like, as you said, like this freelancer, really exciting. He's almost like an NBA player. You just like kind of clear out and he goes one-on-one with everybody. so how does that fit in a Ben Johnson offense I don't know I've I have some questions I like them as a possible playoff team this year though now I'm nervous well I think it's because Bears fans

27:19Dianna Russini:are going like he his physical talent is unique but can he play quarterback I think that's that's what's scaring them right it's like okay we get it we see it but can you do that and then And can you execute with a really good play caller head coach? Can you, can this marriage work?

27:41Bill Simmons:Can you be consistent? Can you inspire the teammates that you have? Do you pass the car keys test, the Trent Dilfer test? Would your teammates toss you the car keys because they want you to drive them?

27:57Dianna Russini:Here's the thing. It's all corny as hell. Yeah. but i just sat with bo nicks in denver yeah and we were talking about how i was sitting with him exactly the same time last year he was a rookie and he's just got this swag to him now and he physically looks bigger too but i was like okay so tell me now the truth like when we were talking remember i was like what's sean like what's this playbook like how overwhelmed on you and you kind of like acted as if you had it all under control like did you he's like no it's not at all i was so uncomfortable right uh he's like i didn't understand any of it uh i memorized it all because i didn't comprehend the why behind it i didn't get why we were doing the plays i didn't understand um the importance of the time between when sean was giving me the play and snapping the ball.

28:55Dianna Russini:You know, it was all of these small parts of playing the quarterback position that was moving so damn fast that's now slowed down in year two. And so it's all these small details that make up a great quarterback. And for Caleb Williams, we have to give him an opportunity here to learn Ben Johnson because as we know, and as Seth Wickersham's piece revealed so well, and even some of the reporting at The Athletic, So he wasn't getting that kind of coaching.

29:25Bill Simmons:Right.

29:26Dianna Russini:So now he's got what I think is a great coach. And I say think because I just, I'm going to go based off what we saw in Jared golf, because Jared golf will be the first to say, and I think he did say that Ben Johnson is a big reason for his success. Let's see if he can apply it. Yeah.

29:40Bill Simmons:It's a weird one. Cause. And you, you said you played, what sport did you play in college? By the way,

29:46Dianna Russini:soccer.

29:47Bill Simmons:What position were you?

29:49Dianna Russini:George Mason university.

29:50Bill Simmons:What position were you? Let me guess. Left back. everyone guesses that why i don't know speed top top what is what was it it's a striker you were a striker oh my daughter's a striker um but i was when you were saying about caleb um i saw this with with both of my kids when they played sports but especially my daughter because you go up these little levels and every year they're like it's fine fine i got it and then a year later like remember last year when i thought i had it and i didn't have these nine different things. It is true. It's like, no, no, I'm in great shape. Oh, actually, I'm not in that as great shape as I thought I was this year.

30:27Bill Simmons:I'm actually in really good shape. So I wonder with Caleb, is this going to be as, no, no, I'm fine. I got it. And then he was like, oh, I didn't totally get it. Now I like your Bo Nix example, which brings me to the Broncos, by the way.

30:37Dianna Russini:Oh, let's go.

30:39Bill Simmons:So this is, this is, I think the team I'm adopting as, I don't know, I'm not picking them to win the Superbowl, but I think every year a team takes the leap from either borderline playoff team or lower level playoff team to like actual full-fledged contender right and i think this is going to be the team i think some people are sniffing it out it's weird the gambling odds like some of the stuff on fanduel hasn't really moved that much but in general i think a lot of people who are studying this stuff when you look at their schedule when you look at the free agents they added the defense some of the some of the guys they hit oil on last year Year three is Sean Payton, Bo Nix in his second year.

31:17Bill Simmons:They improved the skill positions. And it seems like the people that go to their training camp are coming away going, there's something going on with this team. So ironically, you were at the training camp. So what'd you say?

31:31Dianna Russini:Something's going on with this team.

31:35Dianna Russini:Okay, so just backstory real quick. I'm started at ESPN. I'm an NFL reporter. I'm lost though. Like I'm, I'm, I'm swimming with the sharks and I'm out here in the field and I, I don't know what I'm doing. And at the time they gave me the saints. That was like the team they wanted me to focus on. So I'm around Drew Brees, Mark Ingram, Alvin Kamara, and Sean Payton. And this is the year they, they were good. Well, they were good a few years, but this is where they really had a breakout season.

32:08Bill Simmons:Yeah.

32:08Dianna Russini:And so, because I was around them, I got to know Sean Payton really well. and so I used to ask him all these questions but when I tell you I ask him questions I'm talking basic stuff that you don't ask a future hall of fame coach uh you know texting like hey why did your corner do this on this situation like he's like so eventually he's like I don't have any time for you like you're a lovely person I can tell you're trying hard but you need to go meet other people to talk to you about football because i'm running a team yeah um so i was like well i don't really know that many people he's like well there's this guy called i don't know bill parcells call him so i called bill parcells and he hangs up on me he's like oh this is bill i'm like hi bill my name is diane rossini from espn i'm an nfl reporter click i'm like this guy sucks like Everyone says he's so great.

33:03Dianna Russini:I don't think he's that great. My boss calls me from ESPN. He says, did you call Bill Parcells? I'm like, yeah. He's like, why? What do you want? I said, well, I need a mentor. I need someone to help me with football. I need to get better at this if I want to be great. He's like, I don't know, Di. I don't think Bill Parcells has time to do this with you. I said, can you just tell him my intention? So my boss calls him back and says, all right, look, this girl wants to do this. And at the end he goes, you know, she's a Jersey girl. He goes, why did you tell me she was a Jersey girl? He calls me back.

33:39Dianna Russini:He goes, Diana, why didn't you lead with that? You're an Italian girl from Jersey. What are you doing this weekend? I said, oh, I don't know. He said, come up to Saratoga. You like horses? I'm like, oh my gosh. So I drive up, I spend, I don't know, eight hours with this man. Um, and that's where I learned about who Sean Payton is through Bill Parcells, truly. So I take all that because by understanding Bill and learning football through that lens, I've been able to understand Sean Payton. And so because of that, I've been so grateful to Sean for saying, hey, go call Bill Parcells.

34:20Bill Simmons:So when you say you understand him, though, you're so you understand both what he's trying to do with building a team, but also if he likes the team.

34:31Dianna Russini:And it's, I just, you understand why he does the things he does and how he operates and when he's in love. And he's in love with this team right now. Like, even this summer, coach like reached out to me a few times, checking in, and I missed the call, which, you know, how do you miss a head coach calling you? But it happens. And he just left me a voicemail. I got to see if I still have it. This is what he said already. So I don't have a message, just like a beep. And it's just Sean Payton go, I love my cue. And he hangs up. Just, I love my quarterback. Like, who does that? So when I saw him, we caught up.

35:10Dianna Russini:I was like, what's going on? He's like, Di, I love this team. I just, I love this. We too see. We too see Greenlaw. We too see him out here. Like, we're in pads today. You're going to love what he sees, this front five. And look, he can sell the best of them. but he was right when I watched it. And, you know, I got an opportunity to sit with Patrick Sertan, obviously defensive player of the year. And you know how we always ask quarterbacks, like to list your, you know, we ask the other quarterbacks in the league to list the top five quarterbacks. You know, we just do the rankings all the time.

35:44Dianna Russini:I was like, oh, let's just ask, we should ask Patrick, like who the top five quarterbacks are. So he does what we all do. He named the ones that we all think of. I'll say it just for entertainment value, you know.

35:56Bill Simmons:Alan Mahomes Josh Allen

35:58Dianna Russini:Joe Burrow Lamar who are we missing there the fifth one

36:03Bill Simmons:the fifth one gets exciting because you could make a Daniels case

36:06Dianna Russini:he threw Herbert in there actually he threw Herbert in there Herbert wow

36:10Bill Simmons:he loves 500 quarterbacks

36:12Dianna Russini:I know I was so then I threw in Jalen which I got no response which again in the moment I wish I was like why didn't you say anything but he didn't say anything and he goes the one that's right in there, I'm telling you, is Bo Nix. Wow. I'm like, what? He's going against him

36:35Bill Simmons:every day in practice. I just read a story about that, about how they make each other better with testing each other.

36:40Dianna Russini:Yeah. And look, Bo was great. We talked to him too or we had an opportunity to interview him. And he was just talking about all the post-snap stuff, the understanding of it all, how much he studied Sean's playbook this year and the comfort level he has, how quick he's moving now through it. It's really a language and understanding it. The other thing too that was really interesting from his perspective, he hasn't had the same... So obviously he played college for five years and I know we joke that he's like 52 years old, but he's only had the same play caller two years in a row, one other time.

37:23Dianna Russini:And that was when he was a junior in high school. Wow. So think about how many years of football he's been playing. And he's never had the same play caller two years in a row. So he's kind of talking like this young kid of like, it's great to have Sean Payton in my ear again this year because I'm not used to having that. So I just think that that's a good component.

37:42Bill Simmons:He almost like had an AAU experience where he's just bouncing around on different teams. I can't decide how good he is because I thought I really liked some of the stuff he did last year. I definitely thought it wasn't crazy that he was the quarterback of a playoff team, but he also had a couple moments where you're like, ugh. But he also didn't have very many skill guys. He had Sutton, and that was basically it.

38:05Dianna Russini:If Jaden Daniels doesn't take this team to the NFC championship, you could make an argument Bo Nix is rookie of the year, right? Like, he threw four more touchdowns than Jaden. um he threw for more yards he took less sacks which that's like a big sean payton thing which is why he didn't like brussell wilson right he hates hates quarterbacks who take sacks i mean you want to piss him off talk about that right um so you know healthy offensive line this year loving green law you fonga i mean this i think they're the best defense in football i mean look I get it. People listening like this chick from Colorado.

38:50Dianna Russini:I'm not. It's just. They have something there. You go to these camps and you just feel it. You know it. And it's a it's the it's the Sean Payton programming and they're buying in. And that's half the battle.

39:04Bill Simmons:I was I always do these player ranking things before every year. And I was shocked by how high Denver was where I do like blue chippers, red chippers, pink chippers and assign different points. and I had seven guys in their defense that got at least one point out of the 11 starters. And then the coaching is a top four or five coaching staff, right? But then they have one of the best four offensive lines. And the big thing last year was their, their skill position guys, you know, were pretty weak except for Son, which they tried to beef up. I've been reading all the RJ Harvey stuff trying to figure out.

39:40Bill Simmons:He's a 24 year old rookie. Could he give them some juice? He had some big run yesterday that they were all excited about. But I just didn't think that running backs were very good last year, which is really the easiest thing to improve in the NFL. There's a million decent running backs. Also, the schedule thing is in their favor too because I think they go AFC South, NFC East.

40:01Dianna Russini:It is. And they have the third place schedule.

40:04Bill Simmons:So there's a lot of signs pointing to them. And they're over under. It's still nine and a half wins, which I think is crazy. I'd be genuinely shocked that they didn't win 10 games.

40:15Dianna Russini:Oh, same here. That would be a disappointing year.

40:18Bill Simmons:It would mean somebody got hurt. It would be like Bo Nix got hurt and they played a backup quarterback for half the year.

40:24Dianna Russini:Oh, Jared Stidham. That's what's great about Jared Stidham. Yep. Look, Stidham's the type of quarterback you want because when he's on your team, your quarterback stays healthy. He's been like, good luck. But I asked Sean about the whole weapon situation because I remember during free agency, trying to figure out who they were going to go after.

40:46Bill Simmons:Yeah.

40:47Dianna Russini:Because I was like, they're going to want to get this kid somebody. And he's like, my weapon is our run game now. I'm like, all right. Right. So that's how he's looking. Well, they signed Evan Ingram.

40:56Bill Simmons:So hopefully he can catch some balls for them. But I like the way they look. Like if you go roster versus roster with them and KC, they're right there talent-wise. It's just KC is the infrastructure. And Mahomes.

41:08Dianna Russini:They're talking Super Bowl there, by the way.

41:11Bill Simmons:I'm not against it. But a little dirty secret for you. I was on a runway in Chicago coming out from the Sports Collectors Convention and we didn't, we just kind of stalled for 15 minutes. I went on FanDuel and I started, because I was going to hold off. I was going to wait until end of August to make some NFL futures. I was like, I can't hold off on the Broncos anymore. I'm getting some of these in. I'm getting some Broncos bets in and I'm shorting Miami in a couple of different ways were the two things I did.

41:37Dianna Russini:Well, I am, maybe this is kind of ironic because I feel like Parcells is the one who kind of always was in my head when I was younger learning how to cover this game of, you know, the teams that are the ones that allowed screaming that stuff are usually the crappy ones.

41:56Bill Simmons:Yeah.

41:57Dianna Russini:But I've now seen it two years in a row where I've had teams be really vocal about it. Like Andy Reid last year, he said to me, he said, we're going for three. I'm like, first of all, Travis Kelsey said that to me after they won the second when we were running off the field. like you know when the reporters like run after them to ask some questions i was doing that and i was like well you know whatever boring question i asked like how you feel you know whatever he's like going for three i'm like three what i'm like oh three in a row what you just won like chill um but andy was like i i love them talking about that like i want them obviously they they lost but um you know so you got them doing it you got denver doing it out they got they've got some swag they're definitely headed into this season confident so So I get why you like the Broncos.

42:43Bill Simmons:You have them over the Chargers?

42:45Dianna Russini:Yes.

42:46Bill Simmons:Yeah, I think so too. Let's take a break and then we'll do a couple more for reals. This episode is brought to you by Yahoo Fantasy. Yahoo Fantasy is the best place to play fantasy football this season. Starting August 4th, Yahoo Fantasy dropping 28 big new features over 28 days. Giving you more ways to play, draft, and win. Stay tuned and get started by creating or joining a Yahoo Fantasy Football League today at yahoofantasy.com slash Simmons. That's me. All right, third, is this real? Is the Micah Parsons hold out whatever the hell we're doing for real? It's certainly got a lot of news and we don't have to hash over all the things.

43:25Bill Simmons:I want to give you my theory. Okay. So there's this Cowboys documentary coming out on Netflix and it's actually really good. And I think it's gonna be a big deal. And it's about the Jerry Jones 90s Cowboys and the celebration of this really meaningful team that I think everybody remembers. And you have guys like Aikman and Irvin and Emmett, who even after, and Deion, after they played for the Cowboys, they've still stayed really relevant, as has Jerry. Part of me wonders, does he just do this sometimes with these holdouts just to get people talking about the Cowboys all month when he knows this is how this is going to end?

44:01Bill Simmons:They're not trading Michael Parsons. Nobody's doing that. That would be the... Like if the Patriots offer them Keon Way and two first round picks and a third from Micah Parsons, like, oh, that's a lot. You're not doing it. You're keeping, he's one of the most, seven most important guys in the league. You're not trading him, especially in the salary cap era where you could just push this money into this interminable amount of years. And, you know, it doesn't actually hit you. It's not like the NBA. I'm convinced that he does this shit sometimes just so like first take will lead with the Cowboys and people write the stories.

44:36Bill Simmons:I don't believe this for a second. Do you think this is real?

44:40Dianna Russini:I don't think it's real that Micah Parsons is going to get traded, but I do think the beef is real. Really? I think sometimes in negotiations, everyone's like, all right, you're doing what you need to do to get your money. I get it. Or you're doing what you need to do to protect the team. I get it. wink wink wink but we're all gonna be together la-di-da um this feels personal this this has this feels like it's jerry versus micah this isn't the dallas cowboys front office or the dallas cowboys in general versus micah yeah it it feels and i think a lot of it has to do with what jerry's been saying publicly he's gone a little overboard on this stuff um and and i don't ever really get crazy about uh negotiations and how people are are talking about stuff because i know how it goes by now but this with the you know not knowing who mike's agent is from leaving his name out to not contacting him this whole time um to talking about his injuries so it just it doesn't feel great and the other day so the story broke friday so i guess it was thursday morning somebody tipped me off on it was like michael parsons has in his drafts a note that basically says i don't want to be a dallas cowboy anymore um and his agent's aware of it and they're basically just waiting to pull the trigger because you don't ask for a trade out of dallas nobody's nobody does that right you we've seen in washington we've seen in almost every organization most want to be a Dallas Cowboy because of all the benefits of playing for, you know, America's team.

46:25Bill Simmons:What are those benefits? Just out of curiosity, they haven't won the Super Bowl in literally three decades now. And I would say they've been one of the least successful NFL franchises that, you know, you have your Browns level. They're obviously not there, but it's not like they've been rolling in success these last, uh, I don't know, Michael Parsons entire life. The Cowboys have never been good, like in a Super Bowl contender way.

46:53Dianna Russini:It feels like it though when you're around them, when you're there. It's like a optical illusion. They're not ugly looking. They don't have ugly uniforms. They don't have an ugly stadium. They get so much attention. They're treated like their premier, but they're not. And maybe some of them like living in the limelight of that, of the celebrity of being a Dallas Cowboy versus, you know, actually being able to win it.

47:24Bill Simmons:Isn't it better to be in the limelight of winning though? If you're Michael Parsons?

47:28Dianna Russini:Maybe the hope is that they, maybe what it is, they believe that they can do that, right? I mean, because this is a team that's built on star power based on deals that they're doing. It's never worked.

47:37Bill Simmons:They're the Kardashians. It's like all sizzle and no steak. Although the Kardashians are very successful. But you kind of look at it and you go, what are the talents here? And the Cowboys, same thing. It's like, what are the talents here? What is the Jerry Jones? As soon as they got rid of Jimmy Johnson, and by the way, I totally forgot about the Emmitt Smith contract holdout where he actually missed games. Yep. Because now as you get older, some of this stuff falls through the cracks in your brain. But he went to the precipice with Emmitt Smith and it was not going to be resolved until the replacement guy kind of stunk in the first two games and the Cowboys fan base went nuts.

48:17Bill Simmons:I wonder if he'd be willing to do that again, to actually go into the season, not paying him to see what happens.

48:24Dianna Russini:Yeah, to go so hard. I'm curious to see if there's any self-reflection from him of maybe I didn't do this right, right? Because even just talking to people over the last few days about it, of like, what do you think? Most will tell you, well, Jerry's done these deals before with players. He's notorious for these, whether it's, I guess, Tony Romo is the famous one where he tries to do these deals with players. Right.

48:52Bill Simmons:To bypass all the people around them.

48:54Dianna Russini:Yeah. Whereas it's like, first of all, it's illegal. You need to have an agent do those contracts. I think Kraft, right, with Brady's, maybe the only other owner I know of that kind of did that where they have a conversation and then, you know, they kind of agree to it and then the agent comes in and does the paperwork, I guess.

49:14Bill Simmons:Listen, all Patriot fans have agreed for the rest of our lives never to talk about whatever private under the table stuff Kraft and Brady had.

49:22Dianna Russini:As just like, we don't talk about it. We don't care.

49:24Bill Simmons:No, we don't talk. Because I never felt like the salary number was 100 % all the money that was going to Brady. But we looked the other way.

49:33Dianna Russini:No way. We looked the other way.

49:36Bill Simmons:You know all the stuff these guys can do. Like use the plane whenever you want.

49:41Dianna Russini:There's like a million different workarounds.

49:44Bill Simmons:Here, invest in this thing we're investing in. You should do this. It's going to make this.

49:49Dianna Russini:Oh, yeah. It's a lot of stuff you can do. I just had a conversation with an owner over the off season about that, of things that they lay out for their players, this specific organization in terms of investment, things that they have set up for relationships that the owner and the organization have with these

50:08Bill Simmons:investment groups that help the players make money. It's like, it's the best way to help your

50:14Dianna Russini:team with the salary cap by taking less money and then still be able to make all the money that you probably could get on the open market.

50:22Bill Simmons:I don't think Jerry Jones is doing that with Micah Parsons.

50:25Dianna Russini:I don't think he's doing that with Micah Parsons. I think he's sitting Micah Parsons down for a day and a half and talking to him what he thinks is just a conversation. Micah's perspective, As we know, he thought it was a conversation. Jerry thought that was a deal. And look, I think the Cowboys perspective on it, or at least Jerry Jones perspective on it is like, look, I've done this with other players. I asked Dak to do it with me. And Dak said, no, talk to Todd France, my agent. And that's how they did it. And Micah never spoke up. Micah never said that. And I think that's how Jerry sees it.

50:56Dianna Russini:Whereas obviously, Micah Parsons is - Micah Parsons is mid twenties.

50:59Bill Simmons:How does he know how to do a deal with the owner who's made a kajillion deals?

51:05Dianna Russini:like that's ridiculous it's it's shady and it's shady that's why i think this is the original question was is this real i'm with you i don't think they're treating him i have spoken to teams have already reached out to dallas and it's not even like they're having a conversation yeah they're just getting hung up on they're just like whatever it's like we talk about other players um is three

51:28Bill Simmons:first crazy for you no just out of curiosity because i you know i'm in i have the nba dna where people get traded all the time. The picks and the trades have gotten crazier and crazier and crazier. We don't really see it ever with the NFL. We'll have the occasional Khalil Mack trade. But for the most part, teams just don't do it that way. And if you have one of these guys, the way the cap works, where you can just keep pushing that money way down the road and almost like this dinner bill that you just get to keep putting on credit and you never have to pay. The Parsons thing to me is easy. Just pay him.

52:03Dianna Russini:who's the team that trades for Micah Parsons and cousin style just like jumps off a bridge

52:10Bill Simmons:the best for the podcast for me and Sal is the Patriots that would be the absolute funniest outcome of all of this if he if and then he was just awesome on the Patriots and we went like 12 and 5 but I was wearing a Parsons jersey for every part that's just for content that would be the the most fun for me. That's a good one. First of all, like there were teams mentioned when people make up the fake trades, like, guess what? They're not trading them to Washington or Philadelphia or the Giants. Like that, like just cross those teams off. They're not trading with those teams and they would probably trade in the AFC if they're trading them, but they're not trading them.

52:43Bill Simmons:So it's a moot point.

52:45Dianna Russini:How funny it'd be if it was just like a lame team, you know, like the Titans, you know, the Jags. Just like,

52:52Bill Simmons:have fun. The Jags don't have anything left. All right. So we agree. I still feel like Jerry Milk this stuff because he, I think he likes when people are discussing the Cowboys. What's interesting is I actually kind of thought I had them like right in the six to eight seed range in the NFC. Like they do have talent. Dak's back. It wouldn't surprise me if they, with their schedule, if they went like 10 and seven, but if they don't figure the Parsons thing out, they're not going to. Yeah.

53:23Dianna Russini:I'm interested to see. here's the other thing too because micah is repped by such a powerful agent it's the same agent that repped deshaun watson that i wonder if the philosophy there is like once you ask for a trade like this is we want out whereas well we're sitting in washington with terry mclaurin yeah i don't think terry wants to leave washington no they're not trading they're trying to win the super bowl what are they going to get the happiest guy yeah terry's the best right like he's just like walking around talking to his quarterback's mom, just like, hey, everybody, I just want to make 31, 32.

54:00Dianna Russini:Come on, please. I know I'm going to be 30 next week, but just pay me.

54:05Bill Simmons:Well, the Trey Hendrickson thing is interesting because he seems like he wants to stay. He's kind of TMI-ing some of the information. He's going to be long dissertations about his worth and his feelings about the Bengals. But, I mean, talk about a cheap franchise. and he's the only, you know, the only really good defensive player they have. So I assume he will come back. Parsons, though, who knows? If Parsons was like, I'm not coming back.

54:31Dianna Russini:Do you have the stomach for it? I think that's what it is. It's uncomfortable. It's weird. It's these guys, most good players are taught that it's about the team, despite the fact that it is a business. They're coming from the culture of, it's about the good things in sport. And I do think Trey Hendrickson, who, you know, I talked to him. I've been in touch with him a lot during this. And you're right. Like he spends a lot of time making sure, you know, and the public knows that his intentions here are to just get the money he's worth. His feelings seem hurt. Oh, well, wouldn't it yours? Yeah.

55:11Bill Simmons:Well, especially with Max Crosby gets taken care of.

55:13Dianna Russini:You didn't own your company and the owner of your company was paying everybody else who was a star on the other side of the ball, but didn't want to pay you and give you the guarantees that you wanted. And it's not like he's asking for anything so outlandish because I've done kind of some of the back work on that. I'm just like asking other teams, like, would you give Trey two years guaranteed? Everyone's like, yes. Like, it's not that hard to do. But Cincinnati is just one of those teams that don't operate like Philly. They don't operate like Houston. They don't operate like LA. They don't get ahead.

55:49Right.

55:50Bill Simmons:Well, that leads to the next for real. Is Cleveland the worst 2025 team for real? And I bring them up because it's a little bit dysfunctional along the lines of the Bengals. The Bengals have more talent, but same kind of like you are who you are behind the scenes. And then the NFL that always comes back to bite you. I look at Cleveland, the quarterback thing's already a mess. The Watson thing is one of the biggest cap cripplers we've had in a long, long time. And I don't see a scenario where they win like four games. And they, like to me, if you were saying who's going to have the worst record in the league, which is always a fun one to bet on when, when people put those odds up, I would go either Cleveland or New Orleans, I think are just the most obvious too.

56:37Bill Simmons:They seem, New Orleans, at least like there's some good buzz about, oh, that they have some good young players and the new coaching staff's in place. And And maybe they'll be like a little bit frisky. I don't see it at all with Cleveland.

56:49Dianna Russini:Joe Flacco's not doing it for you?

56:51Bill Simmons:No. No, he's not. I thought he was terrible last year.

56:55Dianna Russini:Yeah. He wasn't terrible when he was with Stefanski the last time. It was two years ago. I mean, they went to the playoffs in 23, so.

57:02Bill Simmons:He's in his 40s now. In general, I'm blind out on all 40s quarterbacks. And I think Brady messed up everybody's brains. I've talked about this before. Brady was an anomaly.

57:13Dianna Russini:I'm blind on anyone in their 40s. I woke up with a stiff neck the other day. I'm like, what is happening to me? And I Googled it and I have meningitis and I'm going to be dead in 15 hours. Like I was like, what? What is happening? But yeah, which I do that all the time, which is such an obnoxious thing to do. Like as a female.

57:30Bill Simmons:You self-diagnose on Google? Yeah, bad idea.

57:33Dianna Russini:But also I try to like think of myself as the player, you know, at my age, if the player's close at my age and I'll just be like -

57:41Bill Simmons:In your 40s, you have to. because you watch stuff start to go by the wayside every year. It's like, oh, I can't see his ball anymore. What happened?

57:49Dianna Russini:I do it with my parents, right? Like my dad's 72. And like, I'll see like Belichick, for example. And I'm like, my dad just watches Judge Judy all day. Like there's no way any 21 year old or 22 year old is even looking his way, nor would he even know what to say to her. He would be like, can we take a nap? You know, three times a day. um so i it's just like i can't help myself but i do it all the time so to your point with joe

58:14Bill Simmons:flacco like yeah like it's same for rogers it's like that's why i'm not gonna get excited about rogers like these guys are in their 40s it's not realistic outlier it's he's an outlier he doesn't

58:24Dianna Russini:eat strawberries for god's sakes you know like he he is special committed he did you know you know the whole thing um so yeah i i have concerns look a lot of it i was around the browns a lot last year during training camp and i just look to sean was there at the time was different he's there now but we know that's the situation there um look i like the idea that they they've been consistent with keeping stefanski there and andrew barry i do think they're a good tandem together but there's just this juice missing it's in cleveland i you know how i just was talking about denver right and i was like god these guys are just like drinking the kool-in and they're Strolling on their identity and who they are and the culture and what they're trying to accomplish and the details.

59:10Dianna Russini:And they got studs on all sides. Like, I don't. I don't. I never felt that in Cleveland. I haven't been there yet. I can't. But just seeing what I'm seeing and reading what I'm saying. Like, I'm not. Mary Kay Cabot right now seems to be the biggest star out of Cleveland with her comments at the Hall of Fame celebration.

59:28Bill Simmons:What did Mary Kay Cabot say?

59:30Dianna Russini:What?

59:31Bill Simmons:I somehow missed this. It's the weekend.

59:33Dianna Russini:Bill, this is so good. not that I'm expecting you to like follow all Mary Kay but Mary Kay's obviously exceptional she's been around forever covers the Cleveland Browns so she was inducted in the Hall of Fame Sports Writer Hall of Fame so she goes up there and she talked about the start of her career and her delivery was fantastic so she's up there and she says you know Bill Belichick calls me up once and he's giving me a hard time and I said Bill you know I hope I hope you talk to the men the same way you talk to me essentially like Treat me just the way you treat the men. And I hope you say the shit you say to me, you say to the men.

1:00:09Dianna Russini:She goes, and then, you know, years passed. And I was a young 28-year-old reporter. And I realized now, Bill Belichick just couldn't relate to a 28-year-old because I was too old.

1:00:23Bill Simmons:Oh, no. She said that in the speech?

1:00:28Dianna Russini:Yes. I was, and I've known Mary Kay forever. Like Mary Kay is spicy and she's great at her job, but she's not like that. Like she doesn't.

1:00:43Bill Simmons:Belichick taking strays. That's pretty good. That's a really good set up and punchline. It was,

1:00:50Dianna Russini:it was fantastic. And I was, here's the thing. Somebody sent the clip and you know how all of our attention is so limited. Like I can, I can only watch like five seconds of a clip.

1:00:58Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:00:59Dianna Russini:And so the person that tweeted it, like made it like this clip is good. to wow you. And I thought the funny part was just that like, she was tough with Bill. Yeah. You know, I was like, good for Mary Kay. And I was thinking that, you know, we'd go. And then I was whoa, go MKC.

1:01:16Bill Simmons:Well, I think part of the problem with the lack of belief with the Browns, this is like the eighth time they've pivoted since Haslam bought the team, I think in 2012. So now it's like, Hey, we have our shit together. Finally, the Watson thing, he's taken a lot of accountability for the Watson. What a disaster that was.

1:01:34Dianna Russini:But that shocked me when he said that I was at the owner's meeting when he said that I was like, well, that was a big step.

1:01:40Bill Simmons:He's done it though. I was reading up on him and he's done it a few times when he's fired people like GMs or coaches. And he'll just publicly say like, he does the Aaron Boone thing. He's like, we got to get this right. It's all ahead of us. Everything's in front of us. We just got to keep moving. We've made some mistakes, but it's just really bad at owning a team. And they're just clearly the most dysfunctional of all the NFL teams now and have been for a while.

1:02:05Dianna Russini:That's the hard part. It's when the owners are that involved. You're like, you're part of this operation all the time and it's still bad.

1:02:12Bill Simmons:It's very similar to what's happening with the Phoenix Suns with Matt Ishbia where just they're changing to pivot, another splashy thing. Oh, I changed again. Oh, it was this guy's fault. Hey, I'm learning. And the problem is Haslam is now in like year 14 owning the Browns. And it doesn't seem like there's light at the end of the tunnel, at least with David Tepper, who had made a lot of the same mistakes. At least that's been quiet for a year. I don't know if he's a good owner or not, but he's at least trying. I think they've been very conscious of what it's looked like.

1:02:47Dianna Russini:I don't. Yeah. These people don't change, Bill. you think woody johnson is now going another good example since i let my sons run it all i'm not gonna do that anymore like no um you can't they can't help who they are yeah um and look and i think there's some instances where an ownership having some say in things is okay i actually just talked to greg penner the owner of the broncos on the sideline the other day about that it was the exact question I asked him. I said, how do you know when to step in? Like how, how involved are you on the day to day? How do you know to go? I need to say something here, you know?

1:03:26Dianna Russini:And he, and he even is like, it's not easy because you got to let your football people do it. But if you disagree with something that, and you're watching this, or let's say you're an owner like Josh Harris, right? Like who's got experience with bad deals. Um, you know, that's gotta be hard for him to go, all right, I'm just going to let Adam Peters do this. There's no way. Of course he's going to influence it. Especially if they've been down that road before and they've made those mistakes. They're not going to allow some new GM making those mistakes, which is why I'm curious to see how the Terry McLaurin thing shapes out.

1:03:59Dianna Russini:Because you know the owners involved in that. That's not just Adam Peters. No way.

1:04:03Bill Simmons:No way. I'm not worried about that one. So is there a worse team than Cleveland for you?

1:04:11Dianna Russini:The Titans.

1:04:14Bill Simmons:Yeah, they're on the list. I just, I don't know what they are.

1:04:21Dianna Russini:At least they have an easier division. They do. And no one pays attention to them, so they don't have to deal with the heat. I feel like, you know, Cleveland Browns fans are nuts. They're so into it, and they're so crushed every year. And the Watson thing hanging over, it's all of it. I just think for Tennessee, there's just been so much change. ownership has gone through so much different variety, you know, whether it's getting rid of Rand Carthon, John Robinson, Mike Rabel, all of those. So now they're trying to settle this thing down. And I've heard great things about Cam Ward. But I think between Cleveland and Tennessee, and I'm with you on New Orleans, I don't think they're going to have any exceptional years.

1:05:03Dianna Russini:The Dolphins too. I'm worried about them.

1:05:06Bill Simmons:I already have all their unders. The Giants would be the fifth one, but at least the Giants, you can point to them and go, Hey, they might be able to rush the ball. I mean, I rushed a passer. Hey, they might be able to make a couple of big plays with their receivers. Like there's a few things there. Tennessee. I don't know what the case is. Let's take one more break and then we'll do the rest of this. All right. Quickie for real. is Tom Brady actually really involved with the Raiders for real in your opinion

1:05:33Dianna Russini:that was my for real

1:05:35Bill Simmons:oh I stole your for real

1:05:36Dianna Russini:you stole my for real but I was gonna do it and then answer it answer it let's hear it

1:05:42Bill Simmons:what's the answer

1:05:42Dianna Russini:he is involved in everything everything first of all it's Tom Brady what does he care about nevertheless have ownership in something and just goes oh I want nothing to do with that Of course, of course he's involved in this. And this just even goes back to the offseason.

1:06:04Bill Simmons:So at the Bezos wedding, he's like, hold on, guys, I got to step out. We're having an issue with our six round receiver. Like, I don't know. I don't know if I'm buying it.

1:06:12Dianna Russini:I don't think it's I think he's informed daily of things that are happening. And he has a say. And I think he's in contact with the stars of that team. I say stars, but like outside Max Crosby, right?

1:06:24Bill Simmons:um like brock powers i guess they have a couple stars is there they train with alex the alex program is there like alex he's there how did i miss this yeah alex guerrero's there go to the

1:06:37Dianna Russini:website raiders.com wow he's back he's back if alex guerrero there is there tom brady is there right and look i know he lives he still lives in florida um but when they were going through that coaching search? You think it was just Mark Davis on the phone with these coaches? No. It was him. Ben Johnson took the interview because Tom Brady called him. He didn't want to go there.

1:07:02Bill Simmons:Seems like he's done a lot of traveling, a lot of dating, and he's also going to be calling NFL games on Fox this year. If I'm another GM slash thinker in the NFL and this is a team I'm competing against, I'm probably excited that Tom Brady's kind of half in, half out.

1:07:20Dianna Russini:I don't think he is. I think he's in. I get he's busy. I don't think Tom Brady wants to be embarrassed by saying he's the owner of a team that's going to be a dump. He's going to make sure that it's at least at a level of respectable, at least try to figure out a way to get it there. I don't know if he has that ability to do it, right? Because I've never seen him in a position that he's in now where he's running a team. but I don't think the Sofia Vergara you know make out sesh should count as a distraction towards Tom Brady's focus

1:07:57Bill Simmons:I'm okay with that couple

1:07:59Dianna Russini:I like that couple I thought that was cute I like her I think she seems very charming

1:08:05Bill Simmons:I don't think it's worked it fell apart already? I don't know I don't think they're getting engaged I think they're in the early stages I'm interested to see how involved Brady is because I think Brady's done a good job of the perception I say this as somebody who brought me and the other Patriot fans six rings, we love Tom Brady but he just seems very spread out all over the place and the better thing is that he was involved with the Pete Carroll hiring and whether Pete has two decent years left or five I don't know, but at least he's a real head coach who has a culture in place and is going to try to make them seem like professionals, which was not the case the last few years.

1:08:50Bill Simmons:I don't know.

1:08:51Dianna Russini:I think you're in denial. I think you just don't want Tom to be associated with a team that's not going to be that good.

1:08:55Bill Simmons:I didn't like seeing him in the Raiders stuff the other day.

1:08:57Dianna Russini:It was weird, right?

1:08:58Bill Simmons:I didn't like it. I think he should not wear Raiders stuff. Just wear generic. I know he has to. It's weird. It's a weird one for me, especially that was the team that launched his career effectively in the snow game. Other people call it the tuck roll game.

1:09:17Dianna Russini:So what's harder for you? Was it seeing the report that Bill Belichick called the Jets for the job or seeing Tom Brady?

1:09:28Bill Simmons:No, the Belichick thing. Belichick was just...

1:09:31Dianna Russini:How weird is that?

1:09:32Bill Simmons:I think he was just kicking every tire possible.

1:09:35Dianna Russini:He was.

1:09:36Bill Simmons:But you made the key point. You said your dad watches Judge Judy all day. Like at some point, you're in your mid-70s. You probably shouldn't be coaching an NFL team anymore. would be my expert take. It's a hard job.

1:09:48Dianna Russini:My dad's not a plumber anymore. Thank God.

1:09:51Bill Simmons:You're competing against Ben Johnson. Who's like, what is he like 38?

1:09:55Dianna Russini:Oh my God. The energy level of these guys running around.

1:09:57Bill Simmons:It's like sleeping four hours a day. He doesn't care. Is, oh, this is a good one.

1:10:02Dianna Russini:Oh boy.

1:10:04Bill Simmons:Actually, I'll save it. Let's do an easy one for real. You believe in the in the Vrabel bump is the Vrabel bump for real?

1:10:12Dianna Russini:No, just kidding. I just wanted to get you nervous.

1:10:16Bill Simmons:Yeah. That would hurt my feelings.

1:10:17Dianna Russini:I know. I know you're very pro Vrabel. I get it. Yeah.

1:10:20Bill Simmons:I read everything every day. Everybody's just the accountability is back.

1:10:24Dianna Russini:It's a lot. It's a lot. Well, people are excited.

1:10:27Bill Simmons:We barely had a coach last year.

1:10:30Dianna Russini:I get it, but they're, they're kind of going a little overboard on it. Like, it's like, we're going to shove Rabel down your throat so much that you're going to forget about Tron Mayo. Like, we're going to somehow make you not remember those final years of Belichick and whatever that situation was. And look, I get it. It's working. It is. And I get it. He's the perfect person. Obviously, the history there and the fact that he actually is a good coach, right? Like, this isn't smoke and mirrors. They're not just, like, getting a rah-rah guy in. which is probably the thing about him that gets misunderstood most from covering him so many years of just, I think people think he's just like a tough guy that like cheers on guys and motivates well, but he, he has a plan.

1:11:21Dianna Russini:He's a detailed psycho. His game management is, is some of the best in football. He cares about dumb shit that I think is dumb, but I get why he does and why he's his entire staff is obsessed over things. Like I remember in Tennessee, um, on Fridays, they like basically put together a tape called dumb shit. I think is what they called it. And Braves would have his assistant pull all the dumb stuff from the week prior from that Sunday prior of mistakes teams were making like self-inflicted shit, you know, and then show it to the team.

1:12:02Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:12:03Dianna Russini:and it's a great learning tool right of like hey this is what they did in this situation we don't do that um so i don't know i just think i think the entire organization is energized with him being there because there's a plan he knows exactly what he is he knows exactly what he wants a team to be um and he knows how to press buttons the the clips i've been watching where he's he's just barking back at some of these guys which i think is fun right like he's gone

1:12:29Bill Simmons:after a couple of the reporters already. He just, if he doesn't like a question or if he feels, somebody, I think it was last week, somebody asked a question that somebody else had asked and he just like went right after the guy who asked it. He just was like, I don't have time for this.

1:12:43Dianna Russini:Well, he's another one. Like if he doesn't like you, like it's not a secret. You know, like I've battled with him over the years on things. Like I remember doing something stupid in a press conference. I asked a bad question. It was about injuries which he doesn't talk injuries and I'd known at that point that he doesn't like to do it, but I did it anyway because I think it was the playoffs. So he like, he just like ices you out for a while. It's just how he is. But he gets it too, though. Like he gets me. Everyone thinks he's like Belichick and he is a little bit when it comes to injuries and media.

1:13:20Dianna Russini:But he gets it. I just think my expectations aren't as high as everybody else's for this team, but I understand it. Like I get why Patriot fans are feeling this like euphoria right now. I peaked a week ago. What did you see that made you peak?

1:13:40Bill Simmons:I think that some of the stuff coming out with the rookies who have been, I think, more up and down and less reliable than we were hoping is they hit the jackpot with the third round guard, Wilson. But Campbell's been a little up and down. Kyle Williams, the receiver who I think everybody thought was going to play. He's been dropping balls. And so I don't know if the, we'll see, but this is where Bradable is going to have to work his magic. But I, I thought the draft is going to be like an A plus for them. And it might be like a B plus or a B.

1:14:09Dianna Russini:I don't know. We'll see. Campbell Campbell's going to start. Jared Wilson's going to start. Henderson, Williams, Wilson.

1:14:17Bill Simmons:All the pads beat writers are saying that Campbell's gets beat at least twice a practice.

1:14:23Dianna Russini:So I'm cooling off. I needed the cool off. I have heard if there was a bright spot of New England right now it's actually the offensive line but by the way don't go by us idiots on the ground sometimes because I've made this mistake whereas I do that and then the coaches will tell me later like you didn't even know what we were doing you had no idea what that draw was you thought it was something else and there's a reason we actually tied his arm behind his back and you just didn't see it so yeah look I love the Patsby reporters. They're actually my favorite group. We have great reporters.

1:15:01Bill Simmons:I'm just, listen, I was ready to predict 12 and five a week ago. Now I've calmed down. That's all I'm saying.

1:15:07Dianna Russini:We'll see. We'll see how Drake takes this step. It all hinges on that.

1:15:11Bill Simmons:I agree. Okay, here we go. Is this real? The Rogers, Tomlin, Lovefest, including a big piece I read. I think it was in The Athletic by Michael Silver. about this relationship they've forged. I just always have my guard up with all Aaron Rodgers content the last couple of years. I never know what's real and what's not real. And this is a great example. Is this real? Do the Steelers actually think Aaron Rodgers is going to take them to like the AFC championship game? Do they think this?

1:15:47Dianna Russini:I think the relationship question is real. Okay. I think part of Mike Silver's piece was that Aaron kind of fell for Tomlin because when Mike was sitting with him, his recall was really good. Like, I mean, to me, it sounds like basic listening, but I guess people weren't listening to Aaron Rodgers or something because it was like sensitive stuff, personal things that I guess Aaron was sharing with him and Mike asked him about it and stayed in touch with him about it. To me, it's like, yeah, of course he listened to you and stayed in touch with you because he didn't have a quarterback. Like, why are you so excited that the head coach of a team that paid a gazillion dollars for a wide receiver, you know, is calling Aaron Rodgers, who could potentially be the answer.

1:16:36Dianna Russini:Yeah, no, Tomlin was on that.

1:16:38Bill Simmons:He was on the long drive where there was no stop for food with hungry kids in the backseat. And at some point, you just kind of settle for the sandwich shop you've never heard of. And Rodgers was the sandwich shop. It's like, I need to feed my kids. Yeah. Rodgers, like, he looks like a quarterback. he's famous. I guess we're going to have to roll the dice to them. I thought he was bad last year. I know the stats say otherwise. There's good advanced stuff. I didn't think he wanted to get hit anymore. I'm always going to think that. I don't think he wants to get hit anymore.

1:17:07Dianna Russini:There's a couple factors. I never thought that the Jets situation, I initially thought the Jets situation was smart. I thought that was a great move by New York at the time for where they were at. But I quickly learned that he needed the right personality at that head coach position. and I don't think Robert Sala was good for him, which I think we all learned that. And look, the injury thing is a whole nother story. I do think the Mike Tomlin personality is great for an Aaron Rodgers because Aaron Rodgers needs to be told, we know you have an opinion. We know this is what you think, but this is what we're doing.

1:17:42Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:17:43Dianna Russini:Right? It's essentially maybe even making him feel like he's part of it, but at the end of the day, Mike Tomlin's calling the shots and I think Rodgers respects him enough to go, okay, I'll shut up. We'll do what you say. and arthur smith's the same way arthur's tough arthur's like i don't know if you've ever seen him in interviews like he's a nice guy um but he's sharp and and and he'll he'll make it work for aaron but he's not gonna let aaron push him around on this is what we're gonna do because i'm aaron rogers so from from a fit standpoint with the personalities of those guys there i like it.

1:18:15Dianna Russini:I think it works, but I still don't know if he has enough in him at the age, the injury still to really take this team to the playoffs.

1:18:30Bill Simmons:Maybe I'm too old, but I just feel like I've been down this road with the famous athletes that are past their prime, but you can kind of get excited about it, tuck yourself into it. The best case scenario is Favre. The first, he sucked on the Jets. The first Vikings year, they were actually good.

1:18:46Dianna Russini:Well, he didn't suck with the Jets. He just got hurt.

1:18:49Bill Simmons:That team sucked, and he got hurt. But I mean, what'd they go, like 5-11? Whatever happened.

1:18:54Dianna Russini:I think they were... Didn't they go to the playoffs? So they were about to go to the playoffs, and then he got hurt. So yeah. Anyways, it didn't work.

1:19:00Bill Simmons:Well, he left. I thought it didn't work. Well, as we said earlier, we can't remember things anymore. The Jets thing, whatever. He went to Minnesota. They almost made the Super Bowl, but then the next year was bad.

1:19:12Dianna Russini:when's the last time we saw like outside brett when's the last time an old player joined a team and we were like like odell beckham with the rams that one year like i'm trying to think of like an old player that you're like excited about and they're actually good what about in washington they're all old they're pretty good there it's tough with quarterbacks and basketball gets tough

1:19:35Bill Simmons:we see this like when like carmelo anthony got older it's like oklahoma city has added carmelo Anthony. And it's like, it's not Carmelo Anthony anymore. He's at a different point of his career. I guess Brady going to the Bucs is the best all-time kid, but Brady almost doesn't count in these because he's Brady.

1:19:50Dianna Russini:It doesn't.

1:19:51Bill Simmons:But yeah, the Emmitt Smith going to the Cardinals, like, I don't know. It's just, you kind of know how it's going to go each time. In this case, like, their offensive line, I think is, it seems like it's going to be pretty good this year.

1:20:05Dianna Russini:Not great, but pretty good. Bad, right? I'm thinking baseball. Sorry, I switched sports in my head. I'm thinking like in baseball, who's like the old folk that we believed in.

1:20:13Bill Simmons:Hockey had like, Gretzky was on three more teams than I think people remember. Near the end, he's just started like bouncing around. Jerry Rice was on, he was after the Raiders. I think he, did he go to the Redskins? Like there was one other team. Yeah. Like he kind of kept going. Yeah, I'm not seeing it. My last one for you is, this is from a Jets fan friend of mine who I always kind of trust with the Jets. And they said, listen, I don't know how good we're going to be, but we have an identity this year. I know what this team is. We're going to play defense. We're going to run the ball. And Fields is going to run the ball a lot.

1:20:55Bill Simmons:We have a good offensive line and we're going to be in these ugly games. And I at least know what this is. And I actually think it's going to be okay. And I think we might, We're not going to be dangerous, but we might be a little frisky. Are the Jets frisky? Frisky Jets for real for you?

1:21:13Dianna Russini:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. He's got a good pulse on it. He must be reading Zach Rosenblatt from The Athletic, who does a good job of just laying it out. Like, Zach's not scared. Like, he's just like, this seems stinks, or this seems decent. And everything he's been writing from there has been that. And I talk to him a lot, too. Look, I think they were lost. the Rogers experiment was a disaster for a lot of different reasons and they just cleaned house and and I know some of it was a little uncomfortable a little prickly at times with with all this change but I think at least I don't know if Aaron Glenn is going to be a good head coach okay just like I don't really know if Ben Johnson's going to be a good head coach I just know from talking to people around the league that these guys were great at coaching their units yeah that doesn't always mean that they're the best CEOs, you know?

1:22:04Dianna Russini:And I don't like the fact that Aaron Glenn isn't doing the coaching that he was so great at in Detroit. That is the only reason why I'm like a little bothered by New York, because if your head coach's greatest strength isn't being used, then why is he there? Like that, that, that was what I, that's the reason why I thought New York hired him.

1:22:27Bill Simmons:But I think as they figure it out as they're coaching, they start putting their tentacles around and figuring out how to sprinkle in their little fairy dust. Yeah.

1:22:35Dianna Russini:The things they know. And he's a big Parcells disciple, obviously. And he has already mannerisms of them. And I've heard some things that just like a very Parcells way of conducting things, meetings, dealing with the coaching staff.

1:22:49Bill Simmons:He also wanted to coach the Jets, which isn't any small thing. Like he actually wanted the job. He wasn't leveraging them. He wasn't like, oh, you're my last chance to get hired. he's like I want to I like the Jets I want to be your coach so they went from having complete instability with coaching QB to now at least whether you like the QB or not I'm not a huge fan of fields but I think if you're going to use them the way they're going to use them it might they're going to be hard to play they're going to pull off like two upsets this year and people are gonna be like oh my god the Jets are beating the Chiefs or whoever you know just Some giant favorite.

1:23:23Dianna Russini:Just because I live in Jets Giants land.

1:23:25Bill Simmons:Yeah. If you had to pick a team, who are you picking? For wins? Yeah. Jets.

1:23:33Dianna Russini:Yeah, me too. Because of the division, obviously. But also, I mean, not that, who knows? Your past could be a problem. They got to face the Bills. They got dealing with Josh coming off an MVP season.

1:23:48Bill Simmons:It's a pretty good division situation. What was your for real? Because we've got to wrap up.

1:23:54Dianna Russini:All right, my for real. The Minnesota Vikings seem real about J.J. McCarthy, that he's the guy. Okay. Is this real?

1:24:12Bill Simmons:What else are they going to say?

1:24:15Dianna Russini:It's a lot.

1:24:17Bill Simmons:He didn't play football for a year. there was that story about how my buddy House loved this, how Kevin O 'Connell talked to him for an hour to try to simulate last season, simulate the process they would have when he wasn't starting QB. But he's coming off a major injury and he hasn't played football in two years. Like, I'd be nervous if I was a Vikings fan. It's not great. First of all, House, that was my story. Which one?

1:24:45Dianna Russini:I remember doing that. I did that for one of my insider notes of every week. Kevin O 'Connell spends an hour.

1:24:52Bill Simmons:Look at House is quoting him. This is great.

1:24:55Dianna Russini:But it's funny to hear it back because it's so stupid. I wish I wrote that. I wish I wrote... Like at the time, it felt productive. Like, look at this hands-on coach, including the young quarterback.

1:25:09Bill Simmons:I didn't mind it. I just don't know if that's going to... It's so stupid. It's not the same, right? If it means he's going to be a quarterback. Yeah. They're using virtual reality.

1:25:15Dianna Russini:They're doing all this. And, you know, then he lost all the weight. But really what House is saying is he lost the reps. That's what he, you need the reps on scout team, right? Whether he was starting or not, he needed to be out there. And he lost all of that as well as the weight, which he seemed to, you know, he's back. And he, from what I heard, had an awesome spring. But look, this is a team, they are built to win. They are built to win. They let Sam Darnold walk. They let Daniel Jones walk. They let Aaron Rodgers walk. And they stuck with him because they believe in him. So they know something we don't.

1:25:56Right?

1:25:57Bill Simmons:Well, where they took him in the draft, like he kind of has to be good. Their whole setup was meant for them to win a title with a quarterback on the rookie scale. A little like Denver, actually. Although Denver's playing with$30 million less than the salary cap.

1:26:13Dianna Russini:I guess you have to make that move. Like if you're the owner and you're looking at it, you're going, yeah, we're going to stick with the guy we drafted. Yeah. But from like a win now? I don't know. I bet you we could debate it.

1:26:27Bill Simmons:The question for me is how much is he going to have to do? Because their defense, they have, you know, a top five coaching staff. They have good defense. They should be able to block, we think. They have Jefferson. They hopefully have Addison. Hawkinson, full year. Could he just kind of steer the car? Does he have to actually get on the highway and go into the carpool lane and start dodging around?

1:26:54Dianna Russini:I'm going to be down there or out there in Minnesota next week. I'll let you know. But my guess, they're going to keep it simple with him. But a lot of this is going to be, can the quarterback keep it simple? As much as Kevin Conn was fantastic and staff is great, but sometimes these, look at how he played in college, right? I wouldn't call that simple.

1:27:17Bill Simmons:the schedule I remember not being happy with it because especially like they play the second place one but they start out with like the two night games in a row home Cincy then they go to Dublin and London in the first five weeks like for a guy who's just trying to get his his sea legs in this position it's just not a normal first five weeks so that would make me nervous about them but I weirdly like them more than Green Bay though a lot of people are high on Green Bay and I don't know that was the other for real I was going to ask you is do you we're now it's it's year two of this is going to be Jordan Love's giant breakout season he got hurt at the beginning of last year and now we're playing all the hits again I don't love his receivers at all I know they spent a lot of capital on him but I don't think he has a reliable receiver Jacobs whatever there's a lot of good advanced stats about him not being as good as the actual stats or their offensive line is fine.

1:28:17Bill Simmons:But I don't... Some people think he's going to become a top five quarterback this year. I don't know if I'm down with that one.

1:28:27Dianna Russini:I'm taking Minnesota over Green Bay right now. I'm with you from a... I just think, but they're coming off. I understand they shit the bed against the Rams, but

1:28:42Bill Simmons:two straight weeks.

1:28:44Dianna Russini:Look, here's the thing with that season two from looking back on it and even just talking to some people there. It kind of reminds me, so in high school, I ran track and my goal was to win the counties.

1:28:57Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:28:57Dianna Russini:And I won the counties, which is cool. And I was new to track, so I didn't know. So stupid. I didn't know after counties, you go to states. So all season long, I'm training. I'm like, I want to win counties. I want to win counties. I win the counties. And then when you win the county, you got to go play. You got to go run in the state. yeah and i got my ass kicked like i came in like 27th place like embarrassed bergen county um because my head never like thought big and i think for the vikings i think they did that which i so such a ridiculous analogy but it's i kind of understand it their goal was they were so locked in game to game they weren't thinking big enough and i think at times it hurt them last year and they poured everything in to that one game and that when they play the rams they're just like not good enough because they were like spent um which we've seen before in playoff games you know where you see them all ready to go for the championship game and they come the super they're not they're not prepared because they're all jammed up for the for the divisional game or championship game.

1:30:00Um, but, Oh, go ahead.

1:30:05Dianna Russini:But for right now where I'm at and how I feel about this situations, I just have more confidence in Minnesota.

1:30:13Bill Simmons:The McCart thing thing makes me nervous. So you're traveling to a bunch of training camps over the next couple of weeks. I assume. Yeah.

1:30:19Dianna Russini:I got a little Minnesota. I'm going to see your Patriots soon. Got to go to Washington. I'll ring up house if he's around.

1:30:26Bill Simmons:Um, is there a team that we, we didn't talk about that you're just intrigued by that you feel like people are sleeping on the Houston Texans.

1:30:36Dianna Russini:I think they've got a really good defense.

1:30:39Bill Simmons:Yeah, I have,

1:30:40Dianna Russini:I had concerns off season about that offensive line. Obviously they traded Laramie Tunsil to the Washington commanders, but Casero's got that Patriot way, right? Yeah. Where like he always gets rid of players before they peak. Yeah. So that was like, no, right before they peak. Oh no, right after, you're right. Yeah. Just as they peak. And then he's like, yeah, we're good.

1:31:04Bill Simmons:He's selling two years or a year and a half too early, but it's not actually too early. It's the perfect time, but nobody realizes it. Yeah.

1:31:12Dianna Russini:So I think they were a team I was hot on last year. I was not predicting that sophomore slump from CJ. So I was at camp with them. In fact, good news for you. I remember digs. I remember CJ telling me about digs last year. Just like how competitive he is and intense and like what a leader. And it's funny too, because Diggs is one of those guys like on social media and obviously the Cardi P stuff and all the ridiculousness. You think he's probably not locked in, but even just talking to people in New England, like they love him up there. Yeah. Love him.

1:31:45Bill Simmons:They wanted like some sort of alpha set the example, forge relationships with people, some sort of veteran connective tissue, but somebody who's actually good. Yeah. It's something that the veterans, but they actually have to be good in the drills. They have to be good in the practice, which is the second piece of it.

1:32:03Dianna Russini:And I also think that's kind of a variable thing, too. Like he needed his kind of dudes there to like push the message of what he needs and wants. And I think Diggs is, I don't know if they had a relationship prior, but I'm going to guess he did his work on them. They're not bringing him in unless they think.

1:32:22Bill Simmons:Well, look at the personalities they brought in, like Spillane. Will Campbell Diggs like they have these dudes now that are walking around their chest out like alpha dudes which I think that was the biggest thing he wanted to change can you make your own meat sauce?

1:32:37Dianna Russini:yes I can every Sunday I do what's your

1:32:38Bill Simmons:what's your number one Italian meal that you make?

1:32:44Dianna Russini:I probably like what's my best?

1:32:46Bill Simmons:yeah what's your what's your yeah what's your number one?

1:32:49Dianna Russini:so it's neck and neck I make a really good linguine and clam sauce and interesting my husband would say my chicken parm he loves my chicken parm he gets that when the Eagles lose because I always feel bad I also try to do it to make him happy because a miserable Philadelphia fan is is my health so make the belly happy he won the title last year he can

1:33:15Bill Simmons:he can settle down and they have the most talented team this year

1:33:20Dianna Russini:I FaceTimed him after they won because I was at the game.

1:33:25Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:33:26Dianna Russini:And, you know, he's crying, which is so freaking weird, but he's crying. Oh my God. Oh my God. Um, and so he's like going to the game with me and I'm rushing by the way. I gotta, I gotta do a job, you know, but I was just doing, I love him and, you know, loves his Eagles probably more than me, but you gotta work. Yeah. I gotta go do my thing. So he starts talking to me about like, what do you think we're going to do at corner next year though? Like I am like, What?

1:33:53Bill Simmons:Oh, he already moved to next season? Jesus. He kind of Travis Kelsey'd me.

1:33:57Dianna Russini:You know what I mean? Like, he's already like thinking that, I'm like, not now. Like, not now. He probably started thinking at halftime

1:34:04Bill Simmons:because the game was over. Started thinking about next season. It's true.

1:34:07Dianna Russini:Nuts, right? I know. It's just the second, but that's what makes Philadelphia great is like, they're just never satisfied and they're just not. They don't even care about that Super Bowl now.

1:34:17Bill Simmons:Yeah, that's how you have to be. That's the Tom Brady. What's your favorite Super Bowl? The next one. All right, Diana Rossini, thank you. This is great. You can, by the way, can read your stuff at The Athletic, but also Scoop City is the podcast if you want to go check it out.

1:34:33Dianna Russini:House reads my column because he's pulling quotes out of that. Apparently he does. Yeah, he's quoting.

1:34:39Bill Simmons:This is impressive.

1:34:40Dianna Russini:Subscriber of The Athletic, I love. By the way, a little funny inside thing. So obviously when you're putting out information all the time, people in the league like to read your stuff and they check it out. I can't tell you how many head coaches and general managers will text me, hey, saw your article. And I'll write, oh, thanks, or whatever. Or usually, actually, it's more, I don't like what you said about this. And they'll send me like a clip of something. And I'm like, that's not like from the website. What is that? They won't subscribe because they don't want to spend the money.

1:35:14Bill Simmons:They can't charge it to the team?

1:35:16Dianna Russini:Like you're millionaires. I don't know. It's the most common thing, even players. Like I'll send a player if I do like a good feature on them. I'm like, hey, check it out. I'm like, oh, sorry, I'm not a subscriber. I don't like to add up. I don't like to have so many subscriptions in my account. The hell? This is why they're so rich. All right.

1:35:36Bill Simmons:Thank you. Good to see you. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.

1:35:38Dianna Russini:Appreciate you.

1:35:39Bill Simmons:All right. Thanks to Diana Rossini. Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. I am not sure when the next episode of this podcast is going to be. Could be any. I'll keep you on your toes. We'll see. We'll see if actual sports stuff happens over the next few days. But odds are you will see me in a week on Sunday, barring something super fun. Don't forget, rewatchables Monday night RoboCop. And I will see you down the road.

1:36:18Bill Simmons:Must be 21 plus and president select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus and president DC gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-887-8HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York.