Most Surprising NBA Player Leaps With Tim Legler, Plus NFL Holiday Picks With Joe House

25:14He's back. Now you see, as they try to figure out with Castle and Harper, um, with Wemby and Fox, like just having those four guys playing together for a month straight, I think is a huge win for them. Houston's the one I'm watching from, I don't want to say a malaise standpoint, but just And you're getting them on Christmas. And we're taping this before the Tuesday games today. But they lost three OT games in the last week. Their net rating, all their rebounding stuff like that, we don't need to make the cases for why they're great. They almost have too many options at crunch time. Sometimes I feel like they're too heavy on going to Shang-Goon when you have Durant there, you have Shepard who's been lights out.

25:58Thompson feels like he can beat anybody one-on-one. You got Jabari in the corner. And I think they're almost trying to figure out, well, we have more offense than we realized. What are we? So what are they? Well, here's the thing that they're dealing with right now. They've got to be better at end-of-game offense. And actually, it's even starting before the end of the game. What teams have been doing lately to the Rockets? Kevin Durant's getting hit with these blitzes at half court, even when there's not a ball screen. He's coming over half court, and teams are sort of, it almost looks at first like they're morphing into some sort of a zone.

26:32And then that second guy on top just runs up and they're forcing him to give the ball up over half court. It's happened throughout the game, but it's particularly been prevalent in like the fourth quarters of these games. And they have not handled it well. I don't like their identity offensively in close games. I did. One thing I said when they got Durant, obviously they needed the offensive firepower. This was an elite defensive team, an elite rebounding team. They didn't have enough. They didn't have guys you trusted down the stretch. And Shingun, as good as he is, is not a guy that's got every answer to be your guy down the stretch of fourth quarter like some of the stars in this league.

27:11He's not a Jokic. He's not a Shea. He's not a Tatum. He's not a Curry. He's not on that level offensively. So they got by with their defense rebounding. Where's the offense coming from? They get Kevin Durant. I didn't want them to be just all about Durant late in games. Give him the ball and just let him go. That's how they're going to play offense. It's not good enough in this league, not against the Oklahoma city thunder, which was the team they were comparing themselves to. Well, now you're finding teams are just getting the ball out of his hands and they're not worried about what's happening on the back end of that with how Houston is making them pay for that.

27:44That's their big riddle to solve. And I'm going to do a heavy dive on the last couple of games before I do the Christmas night game to see when that surfaces in that game, which if I know JJ Reddick, it's going to, because he's been watching their results as well. What is the problem with why they're not able to capitalize more on those possessions and why their end-of-game offense hasn't been very good? And the New Orleans game was the one that stands out to me. You're blowing a lead against a team like that. And look, they've won five straight games. They're playing better, but it's the Pelicans.

28:14And you've got almost a 20-point lead in that game in the second half. You've got to close that game. You can't lose that game. And it really was about their offense letting them down. And so that's, to me, what I'm looking at with them right now. They don't have a great identity offensively down the stretch of games, Bill. And they don't know how to play out of teams blitzing Durant and giving it up and how to make you pay. Because there's not enough shooting on the floor most times. And maybe the Amin Thompson factor isn't quite what they thought it would be with that leap. So that's really been their biggest issue.

28:47Teams are figuring them out a little bit in that way. They've got to have an answer for that now. Yeah, the shooting piece is the thing that jumps out to me. Because I feel like when I watch them, I like when Shepard's out for them and when he's out there in crunch time for them. I just think he solves issues. And they also get fast breaks when he's out there. And when they don't, they just seem like they slow down. But I swear, I see the same thing with you with how clumsy the crunch time is. And yet I like all their options. I feel like there's stuff they haven't explored. Like, they never set picks for, they never have Shepard come up and set picks at the top of the key, right?

29:26So, like, do, like, a little high screen with Durant. Use him as a screener the same way some teams use their best guards. It seems like they fall in this habit of, like, shit, all right, Shang-Goon, and they just dump it to him, which I don't think can work in a playoff series for two weeks. It's too easy to stop. So, they'll figure it out. Yeah, they don't have, in my opinion, enough motion off of their entry to Shingun or Durant. Yeah, then everybody stands. It turns into a lot of standing and watching. And, you know, for Amin, that means he's going to probably slash or get a lob or get on the offensive glass.

30:03They've got, it's crazy because they shoot the second highest percentage in the league from the three. but the reason that is because they take fewer than anybody. So like they're so selective in their shots now to their credit, they're taking shots that they can make that that's good. In some ways, refreshing that they're not taking 45 53 is like a lot of teams is like, that's fine. They're taking 30, which is a very low number in this league. They shoot a high percentage, but it feels like they don't move off the ball or keep weak sides occupied at all when the ball gets dumped into Shingun or they're letting Durant kind of go into his thing.

30:44And so offensively at times, it kind of bogs down to the point where they look guardable. And it feels like they've got more talent than that. What team would you have wanted to come off the bench for and play 15 minutes as you watch all these teams? I just have to ask because we're in an era now where a team shoot 45 threes a game. Is there a dream team for you when you watch it? Take your pick. I mean, there's a ton of teams that like, you know that when there's not a shot on the court that can be taken that anybody would frown at, it's, it's like Nirvana, like Cleveland would be a team I would think of.

31:17Like there is no three point shot that any of their spot up shooter guys can take that anybody even bats an eye at. And I know this because I'll be sitting there courtside sometimes calling a game and a shot will be taken three seconds into the shot clock, heavily contested, like off one pass. And I immediately, my eyes immediately divert to the coaching staff. in that situation. And no one reacts to it at all. I'm going, wow. So I guess it's just, yeah, just live with everything. So there's a lot of teams in this league that I can't imagine the mental freedom that a lot of guys have that kind of played a similar style game to me.

31:58You would enjoy the Simons role on the Celtics when he's trying to basically carry offense when Jalen's out and one of the guards is out. but like Simon's just, no shot is bad. Just take all of them. We're going to take a break and then we're going to play a little game called Guys Who Are Even Better Than You Think. I like it. All right, here's the task, Tim Legger. Guys who are even better than you think. And here's the premise. These might be people people aren't talking bad enough, which is kind of an overused sports media thing where we're like, people aren't talking about blank. Usually we're talking a little bit.

32:34Or people who are actually really good, but We don't even understand how good they are or actually what is happening beyond even a level you might have expected. So I made a whole list. I asked you to make a whole list. Let's just go back and forth. Who was the first guy, given the parameters of this, that you thought of? Jalen Johnson. He's the first guy for me. He's on my list as well. He's kind of blowing me away right now with how easy he's making this look. Look, this guy's not just putting up like, you know, 22, eight and six nights. This guy is having like 35, 13 and nine nights. Like you're talking about the numbers that you see a Jokic put up or a Luka put up.

33:20He's doing that damn near every night. Now he had an opportunity to get extended freedom when Trey was hurt, but it hasn't stopped since Trey came back. it's his team and the thing I was actually watching the other night and I was thinking to myself man does this guy's like smoothness hurt him because it's so effortless that it almost looks like there's a lack of intensity because it's that easy for him and I don't think I don't think there is a lack of intensity you know what that rhymes actually is it's a little T-Mac-ish because I agree with you everything is so smooth it almost seems like he's not going all out but he is going all out because he just, his muscles just move differently.

34:05He's averaging 24, 11 and eight right now. It's insane, man. And, and, and I think if you take away like the first month of the season, those numbers are significantly higher than that. Like, I mean, he's, he's had stretches of 10 games where he's been averaging over 30 points a game, double digit rebounds and almost 10 assists. Like these are the numbers reserved for the true top tier alphas in this league. And he has been doing that. pretty much all year for Atlanta. So he was the first guy I thought of. And it's crazy because he took a big leap last year. And I'm going, well, you know, you talk about the most improved player and stuff like that.

34:43Typically, it doesn't go to guys like this who already arrived at a certain level last year. And now they just take it. Like those guys usually get excluded. But to me, he's so much better than he was last year. I don't think it's blasphemous to throw him into that conversation. Yeah. like six weeks ago when the Giannis trade stuff started and I was saying how I thought Atlanta was the team that made the most sense because of the picks, the assets, the expirings. But I was saying Jalen Johnson can't be in it. Like I'm not trading Giannis unless I get to also keep Jalen Johnson because now I have these two guys together.

35:17And some people are pushing back, like especially like the Bucks fans that I know are like, well, we're getting Jalen Johnson and Giannis trade, like that's ridiculous. So I'm like, I don't think they're trading Jalen Johnson. Six weeks later, untouchable. Like, if I'm them and you're like, you could have Giannis for Jalen Johnson, obviously you'd have to have a seven-hour meeting about it. But I would much rather have the younger guy who keeps ascending and try to figure out a way to also bring Giannis into it versus, you know, making him the centerpiece. I just don't think there's a world where they trade him at this point.

35:50I totally agree because of the explosion in his offense over the last 18 months. there's no telling what the ultimate ceiling is. When you have a guy that young, that talented, who's doing it this easily, you really don't even know how much more there is to grow. So the uncertainty of that is so risky to give up on and send somewhere else. Because even though Giannis is obviously a more known commodity right now, you also know 100 % what his ceiling is. You don't have any idea what Jalen Johnson's ceiling is. So that would be to me a really risky, dangerous thing. And again, to your point, I'm not considering trying to acquire him unless I can figure out a way to pair him together because I want something special.

36:34I don't want just sort of this one in, one out type situation. We got this in, but we lost all this. Are you going to feel like you're kind of in the same boat where you were? Even though Giannis, I agree, is on a different level right now. I couldn't give up on all that upside without knowing. I would lose sleep over that as a GM, knowing I moved a guy like that that's grown this much in a year and a half. He's only 24 years old. Giannis, who's had been dinged up with some injuries the last couple of years, there was a lot of miles on him already. You need Johnson with Giannis, and that's the only reason to do it.

37:07So I still feel like that's the Giannis trade that makes sense. Everybody seems to feel like it's going to be until the summer. But when you see the Bucs are 11 and 18, plus they have that New Orleans pick, plus they have some other stuff, who knows? My first guy, you're going to laugh, Nicole Jokic. I just want to talk about the stats because we're used to it now. It's been a whole decade of this. But right now he's averaging a 29, 12, and 11. He's shooting 61%, but 41 % from three. He has a 34.9 PR, which is like two and a half points higher than his usual. He's leading the NBA in rebounds and assists, which I didn't realize until today.

37:52Did you know that? Yeah, I did know that. It's been going on for a while because it came up with a one day a researcher sent me a note because we were talking about him on some segment. And it was like he'd be the first one ever to do it. Ever. If he could pull this off. By the way, he's leading Cade by one and a half assists, and he's leading Towns by a half a rebound. He's also only five guys ever have gone 25-plus points a game and 60 % field goals. But I was like, I thought Wilt did it. And it's like, no, Wilt led the league in assists that one year. He also led the league in rebounds that one year.

38:25He led the league in points, but he's never did the assists rebounds at the same time. So you just look at the basketball reference and you watch the six years as he just keeps somehow getting better. And I actually think it doesn't get enough attention. Well, Bill, I was fortunate enough last year and my buddy Dave Pash and I talked about this in the moment, right after the game, back at the hotel, have a glass of wine. The next day, we were continuing to talk. We were the two guys honored with calling the 30-20-20 game. Oh my God. that Jokic had last year. Yeah. 30-20-20. And it was one of those nights, and you get this sometimes in the league, where the social media reaction from other star players over that performance, it was incomprehensible that someone could do that.

39:22To have that kind of statistical impact in any given game. Yeah. It's just, you can't believe you actually saw it. And we were the two guys that were able to call that game. So yeah, for me, I don't know that he's better than I think he is. It doesn't sound like he's better than you think he is. But I still think you're probably right. There's probably a large portion of people that don't genuinely understand what this guy is doing on a nightly basis, which is still shocking to think he could have the year he had last year and not win the MVP. And Shea deserved it too. And Shea's probably going to win it this year.

39:58If they go 75-7, and Shea's going to win. I've been saying, I've been saying for the last two weeks, listen, the guy's numbers are better. They could potentially could break the record for wins in a season. Yeah. They didn't substantially improve their team from a personnel standpoint. So they're running it back. He's every bit as good. How can you guarantee you get another MVP? No matter what Jokic does is, well, let's do something historically great. Let's be an all-time great team. And they're on their way to do that. So to me, I think it's going to be very difficult for Jokic, particularly if there's another 10, 12, 15 game gap between OKC and everybody else in the West.

40:39It's going to be very difficult for Jokic to be able to get one. You're going to talk about two of the greatest years in the history of this league, if this happens, to not win an MVP. Back to back. My guy, Larry Bird, his best year ever was 87. Didn't win the MVP. Sometimes it happens. Sometimes it's the narrative. Sometimes it's how your team's doing. All right, your next guy. Who is it? The next guy I would go to off this list, I'm going to go with A.J. Mitchell. I'm going with A.J. Mitchell because right now he's been like, okay, wow, A.J. Mitchell, people are like noticing this guard on the Oklahoma City Thunder that got a chance to play because Jalen Williams was out.

41:19Yeah. I'm watching a guy that at some point, and I don't know when it's going to happen because if he stays in Oklahoma City a long time, it's not going to happen there because of those two guards and how young those two players are, SGA and Jalen Williams. Maybe it's somewhere else a few years down the road. I think this guy legitimately has like all-star potential. So you feel like 2021 Brunson kind of ish? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I do. Now look, will he top out at 27, 28 points a game and be in the MVP discussion? I don't know, but I'm not going to rule it out because Jalen Brunson so blew out the ceiling of what I thought he was as a player.

42:02I probably missed his ceiling more than any player I've ever covered. Jalen Brunson's. I thought Jalen Brunson was going to be a like 15 point a game guy on a mediocre team or like a really good backup guard on a, on a contender, but not an MVP guy that can get on any night, 30, 40 points. like just whenever he feels like it. I never thought he was this. So I'm not going to say AJ Mitchell can't become that, but yes, it's got that sort of feel to it. Backing up two great players in Brunson's case, it was Jokic. It was, I'm sorry, Luca Luca. In this case, it's SGA Jalen Williams as the off guard.

42:45I think this guy potentially when he gets his own team, puts the ball on his hip and run is running the show. I think AJ Mitchell is potentially like going to become a star when that happens. I don't know. And what would have to change circumstantially for him? Probably a lot to get those kinds of numbers that I'm talking about, but I think he's capable of it. I 100 % agree. I hate when we just agree all podcasts, but I 100 % agree with that one. My next guy, I got, I got to go home or pick. I can't believe how good Jalen Brown has been offensively this year. I'd already decided on him as a player and I was a Jalen defender.

43:26I thought I knew who he was. I thought he had maxed out whatever his ceiling was probably two years ago during the playoff run. There were some flaws that were just going to be there that we lived with. And that's just who he was going to be. We knew he was probably going to score a little more this year without Tatum. Right. But I thought it was going to be more high volume threes. I thought his field goal percentage was going to go down. first of all I think he's it's him or Jalen Johnson for best forward in the league right now I just think if you're talking about pure forwards I don't count Giannis as a center I'm not counting him as a forward um the one-on-one stuff this year has been so sophisticated he did it again against Indiana last night and I know Indiana stinks but Indiana was trying he was going against Siakam he was going against a team that's well coached and kind of knows how to help out he's just he has this whole bag of moves now he's got that uh one of the last times you were here we talked about he's got this move where it seems like he's going to drive with his right hand of the basket and he stops and does this low crossover 12 footer he's got this kind of almost like brunson-esque pounds you down plays off you and then has this extra footwork now where he'll take this extra step and do these spin layups um i just i love how he's playing i think he's been more unselfish than ever.

44:47He's averaging 29 a game. 29-6-5. He's shooting 50%. And his free throws are up legs. 7.6 free throws. He was never a big free throw guy. He was always like a settle for threes. Don't go to the basket guy. And I just think he's been awesome. And I kind of can't believe it. And this is not a small sample size. This is now one-third of the season. I love this one because I think here's what I'm saying from him. First of all, it's very rare that a player in his 10th year can find another level offensively than what you thought you knew. And I think what you're seeing is there's no deference at all on the court.

45:29When he's playing with Jason Tatum, there is a level of deference that takes place that can affect his nights. And if Tatum gets cooking on a certain night, particularly if it's early in a game, that can affect Jalen Brown's night to a certain extent. And just the fact that he's there and you kind of got like one eye knowing where Jason Tatum is because of his level and his profile and the shadow he casts in the league. We'll take Jason Tatum off to court right now for Jalen Brown and everyone defers to him. He doesn't get that feeling that often because he hasn't had to do it. And so for me to be able to take it to this level with the opportunity that's presented really has impressed me.

46:11second highest field goal percentage in a season of his career 50 % more free throw attempts per game than his current than his highest single season so like take whatever season you want in his career the highest free throw attempts per game he's shooting basically two and a half more free throws a game than that he's I think it's his career high in assists yes playmaking has been there as well and it shows you man you know what this guy had a lot more in his bag than you really thought because he didn't have to demonstrate it every night because he had jason tatum as like the ultimate crutch like to lean on during stretches of games and stretches of seasons and that's not the case it's his show and he's showing you what he's capable of doing so i totally agree with you uh and i think he and tyree smaxie have got to get a lot of talk right now for what they've done with those two teams to keep them positioned where they are with all the uncertainty and injuries that those teams have dealt with, delivering every single night as the targeted guy for defenses, and they're still finding out a way to get to 30 pretty much every night.

47:18I think both of them should be in conversation for first two more NBA. And it's probably like a nine-guy list, but I think both of them should be in there. The thing with Jalen, he had time to prepare for this because Tatum got hurt in the beginning of May. and you know like, all right, I'm going to be the guy next year. How do I get better? And I think he took so much shit over the last couple of years for like, can't dribble with his left, loses the ball too much, settles for threes, doesn't hit big free throws at the end of games. Oh, now that Tatum's gone, watch how bad Jalen's going to be.

47:51And I think all that stuff really helped him. Like he came in, he fixed every flaw that he had. Like he can go with his left a little bit. He does have this crossover now. Like teams poke at him to try to steal the ball and they don't get it anymore. The last thing I'd mention, he has gone toe to toe with the best guys in the league and match their offense, which I think is the last. This is what Kate started to do last year. If you're going to like just swim in the pools against the better teams and the best teams, you still at some point need a guy. You need like, oh shit, it's 104, 104, four minutes left.

48:29Where are we going? this is now a yin-yang game. Who's my guy? You saw it with Edwards on OKC on Friday. Edwards thought he was the alpha on the court. Like, he's insane, but he really believed it, and he beat OKC, and he made the biggest shot. Jalen thinks he belongs on the court with all these dudes. He's like, who am I playing tonight? Oh, we got Max tonight. Oh, it's Luka tonight. Like, he thinks he's on the level with all those guys, and this year he's played like he is. So that attitude, I think, is one of the reasons they've been really good. Who's your next guy? Next guy I'll go with is Reed Shepard.

49:02And here's the thing. I really liked him coming out. So I was a believer. I saw him initially in summer league and I was super impressed. I called his first Vegas summer league game last year. Like the first time we saw him in a rocket uniform. And I was so impressed in that game because I had not seen him in person. And what you, what you pick up on in person is this guy's athletic ability. he has tremendous elevation on his mid range and because he doesn't look very big he's actually listed bigger than he looks when you see him on the court have you stood next to him i have yeah yeah so what is like five we're talking like 5 '11 no no he's bigger than that but he's bigger than that but like when you when you look at him moving out on the court against some of the like longer armed guards and stuff that he's playing against he looks like one of those smaller guys he almost looks Mark Price-ish to me, right?

49:57And I was watching him and I'm going, well, how does he get this stuff off like in the middle of the floor? And this was a point, by the way, he wasn't really making threes in summer league. He wasn't making threes last year at a high rate. So it was like, how was he even scoring? Well, he's scoring because the mid-range was he was more comfortable with before the three-point shooting at the NBA level because he gets off the ground and I have frozen it on touchscreens to take a look at deep defenders that were right there. And they both jump at the same time. And he's given up three inches to a guy with a long reach.

50:31And he's just goes up where his foot is like basically at knee level from the guy that's jumping to contest because his balance is so good. He can get that shot up. And that is what triggered what we're seeing now. He was going to that more often early in the year because he still wasn't making threes. and that kept his confidence up until the deep shot started to fall. And once that started to fall, this guy now has become one of the most important players on their team. And you knew Van Vliet was out. The opportunity was going to be there. Didn't look like he was going to jump on it early in the year.

51:05He's jumped all over it now. And I don't know where Houston would be without what Reed Shepard is giving them from a shooting standpoint and from just a bench production standpoint now. Yeah, when Van Vliet got hurt, the best, best case scenario for Houston was that Reed Shepard could play some minutes and be serviceable or better. And I think he's been above that. I really like him. I agree with you. The Mark Price thing stands out when you watch them, not just because they're both white guys, but just he has this 80s, 90s style that I think has gone away because we've moved more toward these like Donovan Mitchell type zero guards, guys who have the ball a lot, but they're not like these pure point guards that we grew up with.

51:48And I just think he's one of, I like watching him on fast breaks. Like he's one of those guys, he kind of knows what to do and where to go and who to make the extra pass to and when to give the ball up. And I want to make one more quick point on him because this is, I lived this in some way, some regards. It's amazing how when he was struggling to make shots early, like his rookie year and even the very beginning of this year, but most of all of last season, all of a sudden, because you're not making shots, some of the stuff defensively gets like overly scrutinized, right? Because the ball's not going in on the other end.

52:21Now he's making shots and like now he's getting a lot of credit for like lateral quickness. And he's really scrappy with his hands. And he, he's always been that. Yeah. He's really good at raking on guys. Like he's just got very quick and very good anticipation defensively. So it's funny how the ball starts going on the other end. Like all of a sudden, like the narrative completely changes. Like even though you're exactly the same player in terms of your defensive competitiveness, now all of a sudden it's becoming something they talk about as a strength of yours when before it was like this obvious weakness because the ball wasn't going in.

52:56So give him credit because that's not an easy thing to change the narrative on. And he kind of has done that because he's been so good offensively for them. He's also, and I say this as a compliment, he's a little bit of a dick. Oh, no, he's got a swagger, man. He's got, he's feisty and it's, there's a little, I always thought I was right about John Stockton like what an asshole he was and he would just set these cheap picks and he would trip people and he was just scrappy because he had to be. He was one of the smallest guys out there. Yeah, he got a shot blocked the other night by Bruce Brown on a pull-up jumper and Brown blocked on a baseline and knocked it into the crowd and started woofing at him and at this point Reed Shepard was already, they came off the bench I think he hit his first three threes, so he's already like rolling.

53:40Yeah. And Bruce Brown like blocks his shot and has all this stuff to say to him. And you could see him like smirking and going back at him. And I was kind of sitting there. I was like, I wish I could like had a thought bubble right now. And like what's coming out of his mouth right now, because like to get challenged like that, when you're starting to play well, you feel yourself a little bit. Like you're not going to take that. And he went right back at him. He ended up having in that game. He had like 28 points. He was awesome. He was incredible. Pritchard had, not to compare him to another white guy, but it's the same thing.

54:12You're the undersized white guard. People are going to make runs at you. They're going to talk shit to you. And especially if you're not hitting shots, all the kind of warts just seem bigger. Pritchard developed the same thing. He talks as much shit as anybody, and he's super confident, and he's an irrational confidence guy, and you kind of have to be. I actually thought that's who you were going to say when you led it with, we were talking about guys that are better than you think, and you said this is like a homer take. I thought you were going to say him. I did. I thought you were going to say him because it seemed like it would lend itself to this conversation.

54:44Can I tell you something about him? The first time I saw him in person, I called a game last year in Phoenix. I was like, this dude's sneakers make a different noise than everybody else's sneakers on the court. The speed with which his feet move and that squeaky sound, if you broke it down with some headphones and listen to it. Like, you're like, that doesn't sound like anybody else's feet because his feet are moving so quick. Like, he's way quicker than I thought he was when I saw him in person. And I love that whole story with him and like what he's turned himself into. And again, like you look at where Boston is without Tatum and Jalen Brown deserves certainly most of the credit.

55:29Missoula should get a lot too. Then it would be Peyton Pritchard, man, right there as like the next guy stepping in now as a starter and playing as well as he has. I have two picks here. I'll go with since we're on a white guy run I don't understand this Colin Gillespie thing I just don't understand it I looked at his basketball reference he was on Denver two years ago did you even know? he played 23 games for them did you and I not talk about this earlier when I was on with you about my background with Colin Gillespie I don't remember your background with Colin Gillespie I coached AAU for seven years And my team was based in South Jersey.

56:12And my son was on that team. And it started out, they were like 10 years old with mostly local kids. And they're like the better like local kids that came through my camp. Like that's where I handpicked these kids. So you start playing local tournaments in the Philly area. And he was with a program called the Northeast Sting in Northeast Philadelphia. And his story in high school is incredible. No scholarship offers going into his senior year. Outplay is a kid going to Kentucky in the Catholic League playoffs. So he has like 43 points against a kid, Kwade Green, who's going to Kentucky. And his dream was to get one scholarship offer from Delaware was the way the narrative was.

56:47He ends up, Jay Wright sees the game, offers him. He goes on to become Big East Player of the Year like twice, and now he's in the league. So, but here's the thing. We played that team like 10 times, and it was started with the Northeast thing, and then we started playing them on the Under Armour circuit. It was like higher level stuff, and I kept seeing this white guard that I just loved his game. and they were never able to beat us. I think we were like probably 10-0 against his AAU team over the course of his youth career. And the guy goes on to do what he's doing now. So yeah, I knew where he was.

57:19I was following his career from day one. And in fact, the first time I saw him at a game last year, he came running across the court. I came around to shake my hand because he remembered those battles like when I was coaching against him. I told him how happy I was for his success and I always admired his game. Do you know that this year, Colin Gillespie has scored 90 more points this season, a third of the way in, than he has in his NBA career to this point, total. I would have believed even a higher number. Yeah. I don't understand why he didn't play last year on a team that desperately needed a point guard and somebody would give a shit.

57:51And he was basically bare on that team. He's tough as nails, man. That kid has so much confidence and belief in himself. And it's the typical Villanova. Brunson had it. they just, they belong in the bright lights. Like they like that moment because he's been on the floor for Phoenix a lot in the fourth quarter. Oh yeah. And he's made plays defensively too because he's got great instincts defensively. So he's come up with timely steals or a deflection or whatever it may be. He's never in the wrong place. It was his turn to trap or rotate. But then on the other end, he's like made big shots. So yeah, they trust him.

58:28Incredible story. They trust him running offense too. Yeah, he's over 40 % on threes. He's just jumped out over and over again trying to figure out what was going on with this weird Suns team that's just played well and really gives a shit. Yeah, I saw him for the first time. He was like 13 years old, and now here he is. An impact player for one of the surprise teams in the league. Unbelievable. Well, I do think he fits into a theme that started last season and has carried over to this season. Effort. As weird as that sounds, It's these teams and players that just really seem to care game to game, quarter to quarter, half to half.

59:06And now that we've moved to this league where there's more full court pressure, people picking stuff up at half court, you kind of need these agitator perimeter guys. The Celtics have a slew of them. But Phoenix, I look at the team they have. It didn't make sense before the year. I went under on their wins 31 and a half. They just have a bunch of hard-nosed dudes that actually care and want to mix it up and roll their sleeves up and really fight. And I think that hurts these teams, like these Cleveland teams that are just kind of in a fog waiting for the playoffs to start. And they don't want to get in fights with these teams.

59:38They don't want to battle. They don't want to roll up their sleeves. And, and all of a sudden they're down 12, they're down 15. But he's, to me, he typifies that. And I think there's other guys that I think knipples been like that, you know, like Jordan Walsh on the, on the Celtics when he was playing was another one who's just like, he just really gives a shit. Hugo, you go, I always call him Hugo Hugo on the Celtics. Now he's just a maniac. And I just feel like we've had more and more maniacs in the league. I don't know. I can't think of a reason either. No, I think you're hitting on something.

1:00:10I think now teams are now identifying the value added to, to what you're doing. Like energy with energy, with guys that are willing to kind of push themselves to the limit in terms of fatigue and stamina, like, and continue to like what you're talking about, the ball pressure up the floor. That's definitely been something that's increased in the league last couple of years. The other thing that you see on a nightly basis on the teams, right? And you notice it when you can force the initial pass to the wing, like that first entry pass to start your offense, when that can be denied and pushed out to 38 feet on the catch, 30 feet on the catch.

1:00:45It's amazing what that ends up doing to your possession and the timing of the next action that teams are trying to run. So now coaches are rewarding guys that want to do that. They're not just going to kind of be back there lazily let the guy pop out, catch it right at the three point line. We're now all of the timing and the cuts are the way the coach drew it up. When you force that first catch out on the floor, everything is off from that point. Denying ball reversals to the top of the key. Like that's a big one. If you can force the ball reversal out to like 30 plus feet, it's amazing how much more difficult it is to score with what the next action was supposed to be on the weak side of the floor, fighting guys in the post for position, not just conceding it let him catch it and like oh yeah that's right i'm getting a double team and like waving for help now how about you fight that guy first do not let him catch it where he wants it front him do everything you can to let let the ball come in easily it wears on the guy it also creates timing issues it wears the clock down for teams offensively all that stuff it seems like now is being rewarded with guys that otherwise might not have been able to crack the rotation Yeah, I wonder if it would change the concept of team building.

1:01:58Like OKC, everything you just laid out, this is one of the things OKC is the best at, not to mention all the talent they have, all the great shots they get, but they just make it so hard for other teams offensively. And then I look like Detroit is another one where it's just hard to play them. They're a pain in the ass. I look at a team like the Clippers, and I have my LA friends like, oh my God, what's wrong with the Clippers? They can turn it down. You can feel it when you go to the games. They don't have enough of these crazy energy guys. Their energy is like super low. They have all these guys who have accomplished a bunch of stuff.

1:02:30It's an older team, you know, and you just kind of feel the energy sag and they go against the wrong team. And it just, it's almost, you're watching going, the other team's trying harder. Maybe they aren't, but it feels that way. And they just kind of don't want to mix it up like that. They don't want to roll their sleeves up. I can't remember who was up, but I had, I wanted to mention Khalil Ware on Miami. who's turned into a 12-11 guy, and I wanted your take on this. I just like him. I mean, he's playing 24 minutes a game, 25 minutes a game, put up double-doubles. If you redrafted 24 and Castle was first, I think Castle has to be first.

1:03:09I don't even think it's an argument. Right? Yes. And then I gave you Sar, Ware, or Shepard as the next three in some order. What would your order be? Oh, man. Castle first, Sar Ware Shepard. And you have the second pick based on what you've seen for the last year and a third. Man, that is tough because I do think Alex Sar has offensive capabilities that Kalil Ware is never going to have. And it's really intriguing because he's so long. And actually, there's nights when he's really impactful. Eventually, now look, he's on a team that no one's paying attention to. It's not winning. It's a different environment.

1:03:49I'd love to see him on a competitive team and maybe he'll get that at some point in his career sooner than later. The overall package there is more significant than where's now where on a certain team, if you want to plug a guy in like with what he does, well, he can be a massive difference maker as I think he is in Miami, but just in terms of the two players, SAR probably for me has a little bit more upside and what he can be. And he's shown me a lot this year. I thought the first half of last season, I was like, oh man, they might've missed this pick altogether. And man, did he have a great second half of the year?

1:04:25And then he committed to go to summer league, which I was shocked by like guys, you know, typically, you know, he was all rookie team. You know, you're thinking he's not going to want to go to Vegas. They said he volunteered to do it. He wanted to go out there and play with those guys. It's told me something about him and who he is and like how bad he probably wants to be better. And so I probably would lean there and look, Reese Shepard's a really, really nice player. One day, maybe he's going to be starting point guard on a team and doing things, but I'm not quite a hundred percent sure yet.

1:04:57Is it like this perfect situation he's in now to do what he does or what is ultimately like his real ceiling on a team? That's really good. I'm not exactly sure. Alex Sar is intriguing to me because of the length and the skillset. I had the same order. I think Sar is the highest ceiling still. there's stuff and I saw him in person in November but there's stuff with him where it's like that's unusual I don't there's not a lot of guys that do that Shepard I would probably have over where because I like the ceiling with Shepard where he is right now at age 20 I'm just trying to imagine him at age 27 when he's got full confidence I think he's a possible all-star I'm not sure where's an all-star but he's perfect for this can you put up double-doubles Can you play with your hands up?

1:05:46Can you protect the rim? All that stuff. All right, you got one more guy. Who do you have? Let's go with Denny Abdi.

1:05:55This dude, when he got drafted, people didn't know much about him. Lottery pick goes to Washington. Kind of like watch him early on. You're like, he's got a nice all-around game, but didn't do anything great. and to do what he's doing now and to put up these stat lines. Look, Portland's a pretty competitive team. The Western Conference, they'd have a lot more wins if they were in the East. No question. They were playing Eastern Conference teams all the time. Look at the Western Conference and what you're dealing with. So their win totals aren't as good as they would be if they were in the East, but they're still, you got to come to play when you're playing against the Blazers.

1:06:35And this guy now... It's another roll up the sleeves team. No doubt. And he's like the, probably the starting five on that team. Completely is. And for people that probably haven't, that are listening to this, you know, they'd love the league, but like, maybe you're not really watching the Blazers, which I would understand. Like, you're not really paying attention to the Blazers. They've played themselves into 10th place, which is like, might not sound like much, but that's, that's, that's, you know, play in territory. Didn't look at their roster before the year and think that was going to happen.

1:07:03This dude is averaging just under 26, seven boards, six and a half assists, 47 % from the field, 37 from the three 80 from the line. And he's like a triple double threat. A lot of nights with like, not like the generic kind, not like 12, 11 and 10. Like this is a guy that's going to get those 28 point triple doubles. His all around game has really blown away my expectations for him based on what I saw in Washington. It was just an obvious case of give this guy more freedom. The talent is there. Let him go play through some mistakes and you've got something really nice. It's kind of crazy when this happens though, Bill, because it's almost like you're going, well, the talent evaluators in Washington were right.

1:07:49Actually, they were right, but they didn't even give it enough time to know that. And then he's in Portland. So because the guy is taking it to another level, but so it was there all along. Well, it seems even worse than that though. It seems worse because it seems like They traded him partly because they wanted a fully tank and he was like a little too good to be part of the mission. Right. And Portland smartly identified it and grabbed him. But I think the Wizards fans like Joe House, who comes on this pod all the time, huge Wizards fan, like he was that. I was really good. I don't think he thought he was going to do 26, five and six.

1:08:23I mean, he's not only an all star. I think he has to be in the all star team, but he's at least on the fringe all NBA conversation. I, I can't believe how good it is. If you're 26-7-7 for a third of the season, I know the numbers are a little inflated these days, but that's real. Well, that leads me to Michael Porter Jr., who I just wanted to mention. It's only 23 games. He's on a bad team. He's averaging almost 26 a night, and he's in the 50-40-90 vicinity, and he's averaging almost four threes a game. And look, I don't know. We knew there was more there. We knew in Denver he was being used the way he was going to use.

1:09:00We thought he was overpaid. I still probably think he is despite the stats. He's had some toe-to-toe with the best player on the floor for the other team games where he seems to be pretty confident he belongs in that. Like what I talked about with Jay LeBron earlier, he killed the Celtics a couple weeks ago. Like killed them. Like single-handedly, it's probably their second worst loss of the year. And he's had a couple of those where he's just like, yeah, I'm Michael Porter Jr. I'm putting up 30. He's an intriguing... I don't know if he's a trade asset, if he's a building block or what is he, but I think he's probably added four wins to their total that they didn't think they're going to have.

1:09:38They wanted to be terrible and they're not terrible. They're not good, but he's fucked it up for them. He's done way more than I thought he was going to. And I wasn't like a, I wasn't like a, you know, a negative Michael Porter guy at all. I just thought there was a casualness about him that probably hurt him. And with what they did in Denver, the way that they played on certain nights, if it wasn't flowing toward him, he would get a little bit aloof. And check out a check out a little bit. I think Michael Malone at times kind of, I think was probably in his own head. If he didn't say it publicly, he was questioning his toughness a little bit, some nights.

1:10:17So the irony is like when they trade, when they got made the trade, I said, well, this is an upgrade. Cam Johnson's an upgrade for them because I trusted his energy more. I trusted his ability to play within a role and like be good at that every night rather than the fluctuations when some nights Michael Porter would get it going early in Denver and he was a totally different player than the nights when he was kind of an afterthought for them offensively. And now you're in fact, now you're looking at his defense. Now you're looking at his energy because he wasn't getting shots. I thought Cam Johnson's going to have nights where he doesn't get a shot for a quarter and he's still going to play hard.

1:10:56and hard as he can. So I thought it was an upgrade and I'm still not sure. And they shaved a lot of money too. I mean, they shaved 20 million, I think, or something close to that. So it was a no brainer. Denver's having a hell of a year and maybe ultimately he is a better fit for them for some of the reasons I stated, particularly if Jamal Murray's going to have the year he's having. Maybe you need a guy that's going to be less consistent with his shot volume, but still like play hard and have a, he's got a really positive energy and vibe about him, Cam Johnson, no matter what's going on. And Michael Porter Jr., he just kind of has a different vibe about him, right?

1:11:35So maybe it still is for the best that they made the move, but give Michael Porter Jr. all the credit in a row. So I have a question for you because I've been thinking about this. Is there any part of Michael Porter Jr., do you think, that's kind of having just like this year for now, just a little bit more fun, even though they're 819 and they're not playing for anything. And he's not going to contend. Denver, who knows? Denver could end up in the conference finals or the finals. And you could be part of that. You know, he's already won a ring. But do you think maybe because he's won a ring, he's like, hey, I kind of tasted that.

1:12:08But this is fun. Like, I'm the guy now, the ball's ending up. Everybody's looking for me. I'm a magnet for the ball. Some part of him is probably really enjoying the hell out of this at 27 years old, you know, just to get numbers. Go get numbers. Well, he was also, he was the, you know, one of the biggest high school recruits of a stretch there, right? He was supposed to be... Number one in his class for like two years in a row. Yeah. So I think there's a sense of like, ah, never happened for that guy. And now he's kind of shown like, well, never happened to me, but I was also on a team where I never had the ball.

1:12:42Like, you can make a case for it. He won the title is the key thing for me. If he hadn't won a title, I'd be like, ah, I don't know. It's fun to be on a winning team. But he won the title. Now he's proving, A, that he could, you know, again, small sample size, but he's at least shown it. Yeah. B, I think he's a really intriguing trade asset. Like, I wonder if the Warriors have had a meeting about him. Be like, hey, could we turn Kaminga and some other stuff and a pick into Porter? What does that do for us? Well, I really believe in just like conversations that I'm having. I think the guy has completely changed like his draft stat.

1:13:18I mean, I'm sorry, trade status. I think in terms of attractability to teams, attractiveness, like this guy now is like, cause I think people thought, okay, kind of, kind of knew what Michael Porter was. The fact that he can do this offensively, even though it's a team that's not winning a lot of games, I do think now there's probably more teams that would look at him that are sort of those middle of the road playoff teams and go, man, that would be nice to add that kind of scoring punch. The question is always gets back to what he, what are you willing to give up for him? I was thinking Milwaukee with him because I know Doc likes him.

1:13:53Doc was coming on my podcast. He always thought Porter was underrated for Denver. He liked that he rebounded. All right. So apologies to not mentioning Tyrese Maxey. Sorry. You asked, how do we decide most improved player? I just wanted to cover this quick. Because I don't think Avdi is eligible for me, even though he's one of the favorites. Here's why. he did this for the last two months of last season we already saw this and i it was the same reason i didn't vote for cade last year was a different reason was just like well cade's was the first pick in the draft he's supposed to get better every year which is i think the case for maxi not being in there i don't really know how we decide this and it seems like it's up to the voter and we both have votes but i feel like like porter could potentially be in this most improved player thing, right?

1:14:46It's like, well, look at it. He's really improved. It's like, is he? He just got more shots, more higher usage rate. He's on a team that needs him. If you went from not playing to playing like Gillespie, I'm not sure that counts either. So what is the criteria? What's the number one thing for you? So for me, guys follow the different categories with this, and it all depends on what you prioritize the most. Like, I hear what your point about Avdia. Maybe you say the same thing than about Jalen Johnson because, you know, he showed you like some of this last year and you're kind of like, okay, here's what it really comes down to, Bill, because for some of these guys, it's not really that they're improved that much in terms of their game.

1:15:28It's really, the award should be for some of these guys, most improved opportunity because that's what's changed for Michael Porter Jr. That's what's changed for A.J. Mitchell, who is a guy that's probably going to get a lot of votes for this award because he was not really on your radar with the Thunder last year. And now he's a major component and will be all year. This guy's going to play 20 plus minutes all postseason for this team. But can you improve from not playing at all to playing? I'm going to say no. What do you mean by that? You're saying you're not, you don't think a guy that was just like hanging on to an NBA career to now being a guy, like Gillespie, for instance, why would he be disqualified?

1:16:13I'm not saying disqualified. I'm just saying when I think about this in my head, it should almost be a separate award that they should call the where the fuck did you come from award? And it's like, oh, this year it's Colin Gillespie. Where'd you come from? What happened? Maybe they should name it that. That should just be a different award. I look at... So when I think of this award, I look at Jalen Duren, who right now in FanDuel has the fourth best odds, plus 700. I look at him like he had the exact same minutes last year. They needed the exact same things from him last year, but I'm watching him this year and he's a different guy, right?

1:16:50He's, he's just went up a level. He is now whoever, whatever center he's going against, I feel like he's toe to toe. They can run offense with him, um, at the end of games with him and Cade. And it's kind of devastating. Um, his, his personality has evolved where he's like this real leader and kind of, kind of intimidating presence. And I just, I don't think he was that way last year in the same way. So to me, that's the kind of guy I'm looking at for a candidate. But you could also say like Jalen Johnson is now one of the 15 best players in the league. He should win. Yeah, no, I agree. So that's for me is first thing I'm going to ask myself is, have they gone to a completely different shelf, right?

1:17:31Yes. Hierarchy in the league. And if they don't, so that's the first thing they have to. And some people might, for some of these guys say, well, yeah, But if you really then go deep dive into what they were doing last year, you're going to realize, no, they really, they really aren't like, they've already shown you this. Now they're doing it consistently more often, maybe. And so that would maybe be what people are looking for. I wrote down 10 guys without really, really, really diving in, like just off the top of my head, going down the league. And I'm going to blow film real quick because we've covered a lot of them today, but there's a few others we haven't yet.

1:18:05So I have Jalen Johnson written down as a guy that's probably going to get consideration for this. AJ Mitchell, Reed Shepard should, because Reed Shepard got an opportunity last year as the third pick of the draft. Like, you're going to give that guy an opportunity. He didn't look quite ready for it. Yeah, but that goes into like, if you're a second-year guy, you should be better than you were as a first-year. That's why I got confused with this award. It's like, I would expect you to be better this year. You've been in the league for a year, too. That's a very good point, and that's why a lot of people will exclude guys from this.

1:18:36I look at him and go, he's so much better than he was though because last year he didn't look sure of himself and the opportunity was there for him to grab the backup point guard minutes for that team they wanted him to get it he wasn't ready and you know i will say when i met with um email udoka like halfway through the season i called a rockets game at that point reed shepherd was like pretty much out of the rotation and he had so many glowingly positive things to say about him i knew he was going to be okay. Like you can tell when a coach, you ask about a young player and it's like, you can just tell by their response, even if they don't say it, you can just kind of tell that they don't believe this guy's going to turn.

1:19:17He did not give me that indication. So I, that made me think this guy's going to be fine. Like there's something they're seeing that is not translated to the games yet. Now he's done it six times last year, double figures all season. He's done it 18 times. So, so there you go. He's still, but you're, you're making a good point. All right. So who else did you have in the West? Sit through it. Colin Gillespie. I think it has to be in there. Uh, Avdi, I mentioned Jalen Dern. I have on this list. You mentioned, we talked about Alex saw. I think he could be a guy. These other, these next few, I think are really interesting ones.

1:19:50Nikhil Alexander Walker. Look at what he has done with an increased opportunity to score the ball in Atlanta that he didn't get Minnesota. Minnesota was guard the ball. One of the best on ball defenders, pressure up the floor, loved you for that. On those nights you made shots. Great, but we don't really need you to do that. It's not a big deal. You're not judged by that. Now he goes to Atlanta and all of a sudden it's like a different type of offense. Trey young's not out there and this dude's getting 20 regularly. Like him and Jalen Johnson are getting 50 points combined. Like a lot of nights.

1:20:22I put him down. Ryan Rollins from Milwaukee was a guy that I thought probably deserves some of this because he looks really natural as a lead guard for them with an increased opportunity. And then Keontae George was the last one I wrote down in Utah. Now, here's the thing about him. His efficiency isn't much different. He's just taking higher volume, but the guy had like four 30-point games in a five-game stretch. You catch him on the right night, and it looks like he's going to be a five-time All-Star. The dude's got talent. He oozes his talent. I think he drives them crazy a little bit with some of his decision making, but the guy's got massive talent and they're better than they were.

1:21:03At least they're trying to win games now a little bit more often. So I've noticed him a little bit more than I did a year ago. So that was like my 10 guys list. Can I add one more? Sure. Kevin Love hasn't done anything for the last four years. 16 rebounds the other night. Let's throw him back on. There you go. Any other late 30s guy won the award? This Christmas Day FanDuel is letting you once again pass the leg to your families and friends with a fun new way to bet. So if you open pass the leg in the Fandoz Sportsbook app, you can begin by creating a unique link for all the NFL games on Christmas Day.

1:21:39What an early Christmas present this is. Add your legs, invite and share with your friends. Once your friends are finished adding their legs, add the group parlay to your bets slip and you're ready to go. Use your pass the leg PBT to boost your winnings and just get after it. So here's what I would do for the Christmas games. Cowboys, Commanders, Chris Rodriguez, plus 120 anytime. Touchdown score. It's been coming on late. I just think this game's going to have a lot of points. I like that one. Lions at Vikings. Jameer Gibbs. Anytime, minus 195 for a touchdown. And he didn't have a good week last week.

1:22:16I could just see him unleashing holy hell this week and all the teams that got eliminated last week in fantasy because he was on their team get mad all over again. Yeah. And then last but not least, Broncos at Chiefs. Let's go nuts with this. Broncos defense against whoever the heck is QBing for the Chiefs. Broncos defense to score a touchdown, plus 550 at any point in the game. I love it. Throw that in with some easy bets and you're ready to go. Head to FanDuel, start passing the leg right now. I had two more quick things for you. I told you I had a Celtics thing I wanted to throw at you. I say this very hesitantly and carefully.

1:22:56They remind me a lot of the Pacers last year. If you actually look at the blueprint and what they're doing, because I've been, I watch every Celtics game, really trying to figure out, first of all, I've loved this season. It's just amazing to watch a team lose their best guy. You know, like Jacoby and Chris Vernon were talking a couple of weeks ago on the mismatch pod about the Scottie Pippen season without MJ when the infrastructure stayed the same and Scottie rose up much like Jalen's doing this year and they just somehow won 55 games without Jordan. It was incredible. So here's the Pacers comparison.

1:23:35They're built around guards, right? The guards are creating most of the offense, most of the opportunities, the shooting, they control the pace. They always have two out there. Simons can come in and he can still like create a shot. So they're always in a position with their guards where they can create something, which is where the Pacers were last year. They have an awesome forward. The Pacers had Siakam last year. I think Jalen's an even better offensive option than Siakam was, but they have one forward that they know can get a shot and can kind of, if you space out for them, can probably get a good 12 to 15 footer.

1:24:08They have some rim protection in Cata, which the Pacers had Turner. and then they just have all these wings that just try and play defense and know how to switch and they come in waves and the whole team tries really hard. The bench can come in and they really remind me of that Pacers team. And I know that the one thing that's different is Kata can't shoot threes like Turner did. They don't have like an incredible playmaker like Halbert, but Brown's better than Siakam. But I think it's the same blueprint. They're really well coached, good infrastructure and the 18-11 makes sense to me watching it.

1:24:42So that's my case. I like that a lot. I think there's, I kind of get the same vibe watching them offensively that I did get from the Pacers a year ago. It's pretty incredible what they've been able to, you think about it, the last two teams that represent the East in the finals, both lost their best player. Right. Look at, look at the difference in the results. And, you know, Indiana had some other injuries, but they still had Siakam just about every night. Matherin has been out there. Nembhard's been out there. Like these, you know, TJ McConnell and these guys in there. And Miles Turner's not there, obviously.

1:25:13But look at their season and look at what the Celtics have been able to do. So I have a question for you as a follow-up. As a guy that's unapologetic, love your team, do you have even an improved respect factor for Joe Mazzullo than you had prior to this year? He won me over last year. But what I love about this year's team is it's like coming out of his brain and his pores. The way they... Like, you basically, if you don't try, you're not playing. He sat Garza for a couple weeks, and Garza had a weird little stretch where he wasn't good. But Garza's creeped back in. And he creeped back in because he's playing like his life depends on the game.

1:25:57And if the Celtics lose, he's going to be murdered after the game. He had a play. He got an offensive rebound. He dove over two guys and tipped it back. Like he was like a strong safety trying to break up like a Hail Mary or something. So you have him. And then you have Hugo, which is like, I honestly, I think Missoula created him in a lab. Like I think he went to Spain and just like created like his version of Frankenstein. Hugo is a maniac. And he's, I think he's plus 78 the last three games. And you feel it when you watch it. He's flying around. Like he just had 17 coffees. Other teams hate playing against him.

1:26:35They hate him. He's, is he like taking on this like sort of cult status now with the Boston crowd? It's beyond. Yeah. Jordan Walsh had it for a little bit and then you go just like grabbed it, but the combo them together, they always have one guy in the game. Who's a wing who can guard anyone on the other team and who tries, you know, at an a plus level. And it's just, it's been really fun to watch. So now you start thinking about this Tatum comeback. Let's say he plays 25 minutes a game. Those minutes are coming from like Shireman and some Hauser. that you're just going to upgrade to Jason Tatum, that even if he's on a little bit of cruise control, still the three-point shooting, the rebounding, the defense, they're going to be better with Tatum.

1:27:15And I think this last week was the first time I think Celtic fans started to kind of look at each other and go, we're in the three seed. No, they're in the mix, man. Tatum could be coming back in March. What's going on here? They're in the mix, and this was what the storyline going into the year we all knew was. The path was created, right? Like it's the potentials there for a number of teams. Boston didn't seem like they were one of them, but I think they're looking at the top and going to Pistons and the Knicks. Like, yeah, we're okay playing those teams. Like we're going to be okay. Oh, yeah.

1:27:47If we get a seven game series with them, they've been one of the really surprising stories, especially the way the year started for them. For them to have flipped it around the way they have, man, just so impressive. And by the way, Christmas Day games are coming up. We talked about the very beginning. I got the Houston Lakers game in that eight o 'clock game. There's five games that day. And I wish you could flex them. I keep my matchup that I'm calling that I'm part of that crew calling that game. I'd keep that one. I want that game as Cleveland out, put the Celtics in, but let me ask you a question.

1:28:18No, I almost though. Cause here's the thing. It was crazy. Only two of the 10 teams are from the Eastern conference. There's only two Eastern conference teams represented on Christmas day. And that is Cleveland and the Knicks. First of all, I'd rather watch Detroit Knicks at noon. Yeah. That's the one I wanted, especially since, Bill, they haven't played yet this year. And they had that incredible series last year. That's the game at the Garden at noon on Christmas, two teams that practically got to fight every game in the playoffs this year. Yeah, give me that to start my Christmas Day game. I got a weird one for you.

1:28:54So we're fighting at the tables later, but Detroit and the Knicks start us off and then we can fight with our family after. At noon, you're still kind of like, maybe these kids are still opening presents and people are talking a lot. And so you got one eye on the game. And all of a sudden you're looking up and they're eight minutes in and somebody's being thrown into the crowd and you're like, wait a second. And it changes everything for Christmas Day games, right? Yeah. Here's another thing though. Did you know this? So San Antonio is playing Oklahoma City on Christmas night. they just played in the Emirates Cup.

1:29:26San Antonio beat them. Do you know that they're also playing on the December 23rd? They're playing back-to-back games. Oh, it's a baseball series? Wow. Yeah, opposite buildings. It's a home-and-home. Yeah. But it does not take a little of the edge off the Christmas Day game. Like, they're playing on Tuesday. Counter. I could watch those teams play 20 times. I hear you. I hear you. But for me, I wanted that to be... to have a little more weight. Yeah, especially since San Antonio just beat them and you're like, you know Oklahoma City is going to want to get this back. Yeah, but I don't think they knew San Antonio was going to be San Antonio when they scheduled that game.

1:30:06You're 100 % right. What was that over under, like 44? Nobody knew they were going to be a contender. Nobody knew Harper was going to look like this and Castle was going to go up a level. So there's only two other teams that I would put in this category of. Gosh, Boston-Philly would be fun, man, because they're fun to watch. Maxie and Brown are like a show. That would be fun. It's a decent rivalry, those two teams. So you got Dallas and Golden State Christmas Day. Yeah, that's a tough one. I mean, I want to see Cooper Flag, and they're playing a little bit better. Golden State's 500 team. Could you ever not want Steph Curry on Christmas Day?

1:30:44You need Steph. You have to have Steph Curry. So you get Dallas because you don't want an East Coast team versus West Coast team. So that took Philly and Boston out of the mix. Detroit, to me, is the team that kind of got slighted in this. They're number one seed in the East, and they're sitting home watching Christmas Day. Well, it's tough because Cleveland won 64 last year, so you can't not have them. I know. But yeah, you're right. I watched the Dallas game last night. I really enjoy watching Dallas. Yeah. Now that Davis is back and looking like Davis again, I think they're fun. And then New Orleans has been...

1:31:17Yeah. Charlotte was the league pass MVP of the first quarter, and now New Orleans has grabbed the reins and is just the most fascinating league pass team possible. By the way, how about Con Kediple? Fastest guy to 100 made threes in a season ever. Also, I think he's 27. I think they need to investigate this more. Has anyone lied about their age before in the NBA? He looks like the game could end. He could throw in a suit and go do someone's taxes. Yeah, something's fishy about it. I totally agree with that. Just his body type, like everything about him. The way he moves, he knows how to switch already.

1:31:49He's always in the right spots. But he's got 100 made threes in however many games they've played. Yeah, like 24 games. 24 games. And it took Steph Curry 58 games to get 100 threes. Wow. Well, I'm going to end with Steph Curry. And then you can go spend time with your family. Are we at the point where Curry to Charlotte, we should just do it? Can the league intervene? Can this just be... I don't want to upset Warrior fans. I don't want to trade Steph Curry before Christmas. But, you know, he grew up there. There's his dad's there. There's shots of him on the court as a kid. He always joked about ending his career there.

1:32:26I don't think this Warriors team has any chance. We just saw Draymond blow up last night. Like, can we just do the LaMelo and a bunch of picks and send Curry back to Charlotte and let's just go? Let's do this. The only people that might object to that are their parents because Seth just got there to go. Well, Seth can be in the trade. We'll put him in, too. The whole family will go. Seth, if that's going to happen. They're both Currys. Yeah. Think about what you're saying now. You're talking about Splash Brothers with 2.0 with Curry and Knipple. That's the new version of that? Curry, Knipple, Brandon Miller.

1:32:59Bridges is there. We'll try to get them a center. Lamello is one of the funnest guys in the league to watch. Yeah. Well, no, I'm saying Lamello's in the trade. Oh, no, just trade Lamello. I got out for Curry. I got you. I got you. Lamello and picks and other stuff for Curry. It'll never happen. But I was just like, if there was ever a time to get the Charlotte bandwagon go for the Currys. Do you think that Draymond Green's reaction to Lamella Ball would be a little different than his reaction to Steph Curry? Well, Draymond's probably out too. But there is a blow it up scenario with Golden State if they were like, hey, maybe we shouldn't pay$400 million a year for this team.

1:33:33But I don't think he's ever leaving. I just wanted to. This is like the moment right here. And honestly, I don't want him to. I don't either. I want it to be one of those ones where, you know, you don't have Journey going into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Steve Perry's not there. Like, I don't want that. I want them to finish. Oh, you're still upset about that. I am. I just, I hate when it ends that way, man. You accomplish all this greatness together. And then at the end, no one's talking to each other. Like the 90s Bulls teams. Like, it's like, look at what you guys did together and now y 'all hate each other.

1:34:04It's like - I think the 90s Bulls is more upsetting than Journey. And I'm upset by Journey. But the 90s Bulls, like, Pippen doesn't talk to anybody anymore. It sounds... These guys won six titles. They have a 10-part documentary about them. They had the most famous athlete we've had. At least Journey did go find Arnel Pineda, which is probably the greatest replication of Steve Perry's voice you could possibly imagine. Continually found the guy on, like, YouTube in the Philippines or something. And he ends up being now the lead for Journey for however long. But we digress. We could talk 85 fans.

1:34:37I love that you went full name for him. Anytime you want to do a show on 80s rock music. It sounds like you're ready. Last thoughts on the Commanders before we go on holidays? I finally got over my month-long anger, like real, real legitimate anger at what I perceived as a team that quit playing football. I was just so, so disgusted. All the injuries piled up, but then they just stopped tackling all together. And I was just like, how can they do this to the fan base? You know, you get your season ticket renewal. They jack you up 20%. you know, and you're based on this year. And you're just like, what?

1:35:11I was so mad. I finally went back. I missed three straight home games that I normally would have gone to, to see the Eagles commanders last Sunday. I went to the game. So I was back in the stadium. It felt good. I just want the season over. We weren't a Chris Rodriguez Jersey. What was going on? I know what I know. I was so mad that I did not wear a Jersey. And in fact, I had, I had, I didn't have a sweatshirt. No, but I covered it with a coat. Cause it was really cold. It was like 38 degrees. So I covered it with a coat. I was not fanned out I was not celebrating first downs like I normally do I wasn't doing any of that stuff I just sat there and I took an Eagles fan with me a buddy of mine to the game which I would never consider wanting to do something like that but I didn't care I want the season over I don't want any more wins I don't know why they beat the Giants a couple weeks ago I don't understand what they're doing just get the best pick you can at this point yeah I think that's probably I just hope it's one year where it was this fluky thing with everyone being hurt.

1:36:08And I hope we're back next year again in the mix. He'll be fine. It's an old team that ended up having a lot of injuries, which was predictable. But the Daniels thing is probably more concerning because you have this RG3 shadow from that whole era. And it's hard not to think about. Four injuries in a year and a half to miss time. Four. It's like, man. So I'm nervous about that for sure. I'm just hoping that, okay, we win four games, get a high pick and let's move on get everybody healthy in the offseason kind of reinvent certain positions and I just hope they're back relevant again they don't take the playoffs every year but you can't you can't give me NFC Championship game to this you can't do that it's not it's not right for the fan base the loyal the loyalists like myself we'll see you on Christmas I hope you get a great game I look forward to watching it happy holidays thanks as always for coming up absolutely appreciate it Bill happy holidays All right, Joe House is here shortly before one of his favorite days of the year, Christmas, which is the second most you eat other than Thanksgiving.

1:37:14Well, you know, the nice thing about where Christmas falls on the calendar this year is that today is my favorite day. It's Christmas Adam today. Tomorrow's Christmas Eve. And then we have Christmas. I just got back from a lunch of giant ice raw bar platter of Chesapeake Bay oysters, spiced shrimp with some delicious old bay, and maybe a couple of frosés. Maybe a couple. I was going to say, you seem like you're not sick anymore and you have your energy back. Tis the season, brother. Tis the season. So you've decided you have enough white blood cells in your body again to just start drinking during the day.

1:37:56Day drinking. That's what Christmas is for. Well, Christmas is also for comebacks. Just everyone's getting annihilated in Ringer 107. This is now the worst regular season I think I've had. Not Shield. Shield was cooking. What did Shield do? 5-0. Oh my God. I almost went 0-5. I need to win 10 straight just to finish with 500. I'm already focused on the playoffs. I'm already thinking ahead. Playoffs are all that matters. Unlike the Chiefs. Why didn't you take the Titans last week? That was one of my favorite bets of the week. Because Schrager was guesting for you, and he talked me out of the Titans.

1:38:31Come on. That was a... I gave out the Titans. I gave out the Saints plus Shuck over 275. That was a plus. You did that on Sunday. We're making the picks on Thursday. Nobody asked me. I loved the Saints last week. I should have asked you. It's okay. You're allowed. I was so disgruntled with picks and everything. I didn't, I don't, I passed the point of caring, but now I care because we have to get ready for playoffs again. Well, this is miserable because week 17 and week 18 have nothing but like incredible variants all over. I had an awesome gambling week in real life. Yeah. Me too. Great one. And then I gave some of it back last night with a Colts under tease.

1:39:17The under lost with like five minutes into the game. I don't know what happened to the Colts defense. And then on the flip side, I don't know what to make of the Niners offense because they now look like the 99 Rams. Respectfully, again, Ringer Gambling Show, first part of Monday, I gave out the San Francisco money line, parlayed with the Colts over 20 and a half. That only paid out plus 280. That was a plus 280 parlay that I gave out to all of America first part of Monday because thought there was a great chance the Colts would be able to move the ball against that San Francisco defense. I did too.

1:39:54That's why I took them plus five and a half. I didn't realize they'd give up 48. We also talked about the fact that Seattle had six scoring drives against this Colts defense. The difference is they were all field goals. Yeah. If half of those were touchdowns, that game wouldn't have been close. Yeah, that's a good point. And San Francisco has been absolutely cooking since Purdy came back. 4-0 straight up, 4-0 against the spread going into last night. Every win by double digits. Well, let's just make it five in a row. 5-0 against the spread, 5-0 straight up, five straight games by double digits.

1:40:32And we might be taking them again this week. Might be. I like for Jose House. Maybe this is where we needed to go for the picks. This could be the lesson that saves it. Drunk House just needed to come back. Drunk House got sick. I'm right here, baby. Drunk House couldn't be Drunk House. Now you're back. Yeah, old-fashioned, it's the season. We have three Christmas games that include... Negroni with Rye. Go ahead. Negroni with Rye. We have Washington, your favorite team, plus seven against Dallas, who now has somehow the worst DBOA defense in the league. They passed the Bengals this week. They passed Washington.

1:41:03The Bengals were in historical conversations for having the worst DBO defense of all time. Yeah. And by week 17, they had been passed by the Cowboys. And I thought your team looked pretty good last week for a bad team. That was going to be really fun coming down the stretch until Mariota got hurt. As soon as he went out, I was like, oh, more fuck. This is a double-digit loss. If Mariota didn't get hurt, maybe. They can move the ball against that Eagles defense. And they were moving the ball against the Eagles defense. So who is the quarterback this week for the Washington team? I believe it is going to be Jeff Driscoll.

1:41:37spelled with a K. D-R-I-S-K-O. Say no more. Cross it off. I already have bets. You know, the line was six and a half. Dallas, six and a half. I jumped all over. I got every bit of that I could. That's a complete stay away from it. No, I'm just, I understand, but they're going to beat Washington's ass. And yet Dallas isn't good, so who knows? Next one, Vikings-Lions. Vikings plus seven in that game. And Brosmer's probably playing because J.J. McCarthy got hurt. Brosmer wasn't bad last week. Brosmer? Brosmer? Brosmer. I think it's bro. It's Brosmer with a bro. The bro wasn't bad last week. The bro, that's what we're calling him.

1:42:21You know who's going to make him look good? He helped serve. It's a defense that stinks. They stink. Holy cow. They picked my pocket last week. I think this line's a little high. I agree with you. I don't want to stay away from the first two Christmas games. This is Netflix, right? This is our friends at Netflix. They are our friends. We would never steer them wrong. Let's get involved here. They're going to have to rig one of these games to make them exciting. So why not this one? Vikings plus seven. I watched that whole Vikings-Giants game last week because I had the Vikings in a five-team money line parlay that Baker Mayfield ended up sodomizing.

1:42:59but the Vikings plus seven with the ability to run the ball with the ability to blitz a Detroit team that has no offensive line. Yes. Feels like a closer game than seven. I mean, division game Vikings at home. The Vikings very quietly. Their defense has been very steady over like the last six weeks or so. it should have been my wise wager on Sunday I like them against the Giants I think that they can win that barely won though barely won I know but the defense won the game for them and ultimately this number is too fat what world are we living in where the Lions deserve a full touchdown that team that's a clown show over there well the other thing is they can't block cannot.

1:43:54And it just seems like a nice matchup for the Vikings D. This feels a little square to me, but I think it's just because of Brosma, right? Jonathan Greener's not playing. He's out for the rest of the season. He is the Vikings' top pass rusher, so that would be part of why you would be... Everybody's missing two guys at this point. I also really like the Broncos in the third game, which is going to be on Amazon. they're minus 12 and a half against the Chiefs as we do this the Chiefs have Chris Oladoukan, what's his name? Olo Kandy? Michael Olo Kandy is the quarterback for the Chiefs. Michael Chris Oladoukan Olo Kandy so the Chiefs showed us how they plan on handling the rest of the season by not winning or competing.

1:44:42Well let me ask you this on that very point is this the farewell game for Kelsey? where's he going? To make five babies with Taylor Swift. She might already have two of them right now. They might not be at week 18, Kelsey, you're saying? So he just plays this one, and this is why he says he's retiring after the game. Isn't this their last home game? Yeah, he'll play in week 18. But I'm saying, for his home crowd, this could be the farewell game for both Kelsey. What's the announcement? are they going to do a deal with Arrowhead Stadium? Are they going to keep one of the venerable, venerated stadiums in all of professional football or are they going to move to fucking Kansas?

1:45:29I thought they were, first of all, I researched this. It doesn't seem like a big deal that they're moving. It's Missouri and Kansas. They share Kansas City. Not a big deal. It's Arrowhead Stadium. Arrowhead's the oldest stadium in the league. They have to get rid of it. Like, you know, oh, they're moving from, it'll be a Green Bay. Oh, we're moving from Lambeau. We're 20 minutes away to, you know. All right. Bite your tongue. Arrowhead is not Lambo. Brother. When we were growing up, we were like, hey, someday we got to go to a game at Arrowhead. Come on. It's fine. It's achieved quite a bit. I mean, a lot of great, a lot of things have happened there over the last decade.

1:46:04That's fine. Everything ends. We lost Sullivan Stadium once upon a time, the New England Patriots. We? Yeah, the Patriots fans. And the best game ever played in Sullivan Stadium was the last game ever, the snow game. Well, this is what I'm getting at. Yeah. What if? You think there's going to be emotion? What if? It's a what if. What are you talking about? 12 and a half. It was my favorite bet last week was the Titans on the money line. Titans at home against that completely decimated Chiefs team. I had it. What if I parlayed Denver at six and a half and took the under to 43 and a half and bet that these teams could not get to 44 points if they had seven quarters.

1:46:47That part is fine. You would just be worried about Denver getting it. Because Denver was embarrassed. Yeah, they were embarrassed by the way that the Jaguars pantsed them last week. Sounds like this is a stay away. I mean, we could also just take the Broncos minus 12 and a half and think it's a sad game. Yeah, the Chiefs' last game is at Vegas. This is their last... Oh, Kelsey's playing in that one. You know, it's not that he's playing. This is a Christmas game in prime time, on prime video. Kelsey and Arrowhead, possibly the farewell for both of them. It just, you know, I don't want to get in front of that.

1:47:25Think the NFL calls it in? They have injuries on defense, and that's really the reason why you would be like, go ahead and just lay the points. But I don't know, man. The NFL tried to call in the Ravens-Pats game, and Drake may have other ideas. that boned us at nine calls. And Harbaugh, holy cow. How can that guy come back? How can that guy possibly come back next year? It's like, what's the scenario? I don't understand why Derrick Henry didn't play. Do we have Derrick Henry on our team? Is he even on our team? He had the series off. How'd they not give his resignation letter already? Ravens-Packers, Ravens plus two and a half.

1:48:00Ironically, the Ravens. Green Bay is in if Detroit loses. We just had to look up before we came on who the Packers' third-string quarterback was, and his name is Clayton Toon. Toon. Mr. Toon's parents are very proud of him. The Ravens, I got to be honest, slightly hampered Lamar versus Huntley, I'm not sure there's a major difference. It's not like going from Mahomes to... Who's the third-string guy in the Chiefs again? Toon. Chris Oduke. Oh, Ola Candy. Chris Oduke. Michael Ola Candy? Yeah. I was, there's a parlay possibility here. Ravens plus four and a half with the under 54 and a half. It's a night game at Lambeau.

1:48:44What are the ads? This game has 55 points. Not betting any more money on the Ravens. The Ravens can go fuck themselves. That, that, the way they ended that game. Remember, we've only had two shenanigan games out of the hot trash Ravens this season. The very first game of the season against Buffalo when they were up by 15 points with seven minutes left. and then the hot trash. Let's find a way. How can we lose this football game? Let's invent it. Over the last 10 minutes, when we're up 10 points against the Patriots with our goddamn season on the line, all we have to do is win this football game.

1:49:19We're up 10 with 10 minutes left, and then we can rest week 17, everybody get healthy, and go win the division week 18. Can we go do that? Nope. No chance. We're clowns. We're jokers. You left out the part that we're going against. 2010 Aaron Rodgers combined with John Elway and Drake May. Lift up that part. Say whatever you want. A beat-up Patriots offensive line. Yeah, didn't matter. Drake May got pressured 47 % of the time. Patriots missing the middle of their defense. Is that exploitable? Nope. Not by the Ravens. Keaton Mitchell. Make sure we have a rotation. Got to get Keaton Mitchell all of his touches in the fourth quarter.

1:50:01Derek Henry's old. They're trying to arrest him. They did. He's going to get a lot of rest this offseason when they're not in the playoffs. I'm marking down Ravens plus four and a half with under 45 and a half. You go nuts. I want no part of it. Jags and Texans-Colts. Here's the scenario. Colts are alive. They have to win twice. They have to hope Houston loses twice. Jaguars win the AFC South with a win and a Texans loss. Colts are out if Houston wins. And Colts-Texans playing week 18. Right. It's not that they're hoping that Houston loses twice. They could beat Houston. That's how they have to do it.

1:50:36They had to beat Houston in week 18. Well, they're going to know on Sunday because on Saturday, the Chargers host the Texans. And if the Chargers win that game, nothing the Colts do matter. And I don't even know, does Phil Rivers say like, okay, guys, I'll see you later. I got the Chargers in the playoffs. I'm good. That was my goal. But Jags are minus five and a half against the Colts. You can do a little parlay action with that one. You could go Jags minus one and a half and the over 41 and a half works in the contest rules. But we'll do Chargers-Texans first. I watched every play of that Texans game Sunday because I had my fantasy season relying on CJ Stroud and Nico Collins.

1:51:16And they had so much trouble moving the ball against Vegas and a good pass rush. They can't run the ball because Woody Marks is hurt and they just have no other threats. Stroud was legitimately bad. We saw and I talked about it on Sunday. And now they're playing this Chargers team that all they do is play really good defense. They can run the ball now, two running backs. Herbert has been great for a month and they win every week. So A, why am I taking the Texans in that game when they're playing a better version of the Raiders and they barely won last week? B, Chargers can just put shit away with this, right?

1:51:57and then C if Houston loses that keeps Jags Colts alive which I think the NFL likes when that happens just throwing that out there too fair point here's my concern I don't think Houston prepared for that Vegas game as though it was a potential playoff game for them I think that they did a game plan that was the old just enough. The old Milton Berle. I thought that as watching it was getting mad. They're just trying not to do anything basically. First of all, we want confirmation about Woody Marks. How's he looking for that game on Saturday? But more importantly, the thing that concerns me is Houston has a defense that is equal to or superior to the Eagles.

1:52:51And the way that the Eagles played the Chargers in LA, I expect to see something that is very close, very close. Seven sacks, 70 % pressure, and the Chargers won that game because they let Jalen Hurts just go ahead and beat himself and take the Eagles completely out of that game. That defense for Houston can take away every single thing that the Chargers want to do. Their pressure, to me, is superior to what the Eagles... So I would have agreed with you until I watched the Raiders have open guys the whole game and run the floor, run the ball, and have explosive plays. And I thought the only case for it is that Houston was just looking ahead to the week later, and that's it.

1:53:45Because they were bad. They were bad on both sides. And I thought they deserved to lose. Oh, they could have lost. They definitely could have. Yeah, they definitely blew everybody's 10-point teases if you did those. They barely covered the Houston Moneyline stuff that everybody had. So it sounds like, well, then Jags, Colts. I don't know if the Jags lose again this season. I think they have the eye of the tiger. I don't want to even think about going against them until the playoffs. So it sounds like you like the Texans more than the Chargers. I think I do. I have so much respect for the Chargers.

1:54:23I'm tired of going against the Chargers. I just feel like they stick it to me every time. You know, they were underdogs in all three games. They were underdogs against the Eagles. They were underdogs against the Chiefs. They were underdogs against Dallas. And all they do is come out and play really, really, really impressive defense. Their defense has been outstanding for the past month. Herbert was really good last week, too. That's the toughest mother effer. You know, a lot of people, including us, have had a lot of fun at his expense. But that's one tough big boy. He has been playing big boy football now, taking the hits.

1:55:01You know, part of the handicap for why I thought the Eagles had a nice chance, that left hand was all banged up, him going down on it. He can't run. It doesn't matter. He just takes it. He takes it like a man. I've been so impressed. I still might take the Chargers as one of my picks. It's okay. I really cooled off on Houston after last week. Sure. It might be an overreaction. Completely understandable. I was really unimpressed. I get it. I don't think Vegas is good. I'm not arguing with you. I am not arguing with you. I understand. Panthers, Seahawks. Panthers plus seven and a half at home against the Seahawks.

1:55:30Weirdest line of the week. What did you make of it? Seahawks roll. This is, this is that, you know, the Panthers are every other week and their season comes down to, to week 18. Um, you know, they, they have to beat Tampa again. That's it. That's, that's why Tampa's favored to win the division. That's why, you know, the, the, the, the, like the Panthers handled Tampa, no problem whatsoever. I love Seattle here. Well, so there's a world where the Dolphins beat the Bucks, the Panthers could actually win the division this week. if they somehow beat Seattle. I think the line's a little too high, but it also makes me suspicious.

1:56:07Why is the line so high? Why should we trust Seattle on the road, on grass, in Sam Darnold's own haunts in Carolina? Seattle's been awesome on the road. I think that they have covered nearly every game for two years. They've only lost twice on the road in two years. It's an awesome team under Mike McDonald, an awesome road team. So, Niners-Bears, Niners-minus-three against the Bears. if Green Bay loses Saturday night, the Bears quench the NFC South. And the Bears have now had six come from behind wins in the last two minutes, which has only happened zero times since 1970. And the Niners are looking really good.

1:56:48The Bears should have lost last week. If the Bears had lost last week, if they just lose 16-9, what's the line for this game? Ooh, that's a great question. Four and a half, five? It's minus four, four and a half, yeah. So getting an onside kick gave them an extra point and a half. Romeo Dobbs did it. He gave it to him. Is there some recency bias with how good the Niners looked and now your peak of the market with the Niners? Five weeks. Is that recency bias? One of the most efficient offenses in the NFL. I like Niners minus three. Me too. We're in lockstep on this. Okay. What game did I not mention that you like?

1:57:22I think the Eagles have something up their sleeve. They still have an outside chance at the two seed. It's a long shot. But if this Bears team loses, now the Bears will know the outcome of Eagles-Bills going on Monday night. So that's in Buffalo, and the Eagles are plus one and a half. They're getting back both Jalen Carter and most importantly, Lane Johnson. Lane Johnson's definitely going to play. And Bills are beat up. They came out of that Cleveland game. um Allen's got something going on with with an ankle or a foot bad ankle yeah whatever that that thing is Jordan Poyer seems like he's going to be out um and I this Eagles team the defense has been outstanding for the most part other than the second half against Dallas they've been very very stout this is a game where you know this is a you know state your class game Eagles went out they still have a chance at that two seed it's not you know that they need the Bears to lose both but that's conceivable Bears have two tough games left I thought the I thought the Bills defense was alarming last week against Cleveland and if If Cleveland was any good at all, they would have won the game.

1:58:52They just couldn't really put it together. But they were getting explosive plays with guys you never heard of. It's still really hard for the Bills to move the ball without the explosive plays. They're just putting so much pressure on Cook. I feel like the Eagles should be able to take Cook out, right? Yes. Kind of shrink the field, make Allen try to beat them over the top. I like the Eagles as well. I think that's a good point about, are we sure Carter and Lane Johnson are coming back? Lane Johnson definitely back. Okay. All right. Well, we have five unless there's another game you like. No, I'm happy.

1:59:28I wanted to make sure we got the Eagles and the Niners were my two favorite. Eagles and the Niners. Well, that's great because I didn't know that and I really like the Niners. Okay. So we have today's Ringer 107 brought to you by Fando. Hoping to change our luck this week. It's been a pretty gruesome year. I still feel good about the playoffs, though. I mean, cheers to us. Listen, I'm going to keep my process the way it's always been. Sometimes it's not. And by the way, if people want to go against us every week, great. I just hope people get picks either way. First one, Christmas Day, Vikings plus seven against the Lions, who have no offensive line and no defense.

2:00:07We don't really care who the quarterback for Minnesota is. Minnesota's defense can carry this one. Ugly game, probably a little under. And I think the Vikings could actually win, and so does Joe House. it's impossible it's a money line play it's a money line play but we're gonna take the plus seven and we get a touchdown that's the first one second one parlay house didn't love this one but i like the fact that clayton tuned my play for the packers in this game saturday night uh ravens if they played derrick henry with seven minutes left did they just beat the pats and we feel great about them probably who can say ask coach harbaugh parlay ravens plus four and a half under 54 and a half.

2:00:47Let's go 55 points combined to beat this with Clayton Toon or Malik Willis, maybe Tyler Huntley. I don't see 55 points. Free base defense is excellent. It's fine. I don't see 55 points. It's your pick, not mine. Yeah, I think it's a three point game. I'm getting four and a half. I might win. And I don't think it's high scoring. There's two.

2:01:08I'm deliberately defying house on this one. This is one of my picks. Chargers minus one half against the Texans. It's a 50-50 game. I'm not going to say anything disrespectful about the Chargers. You know, I was one of the leaders of the Texans defense. It's awesome being right. I didn't like how they looked at all against the Raiders last week. And I don't like that they're giving up plays up and down the field and big plays. And I just wanted a little more. Chargers minus one and a half. All their offensive weapons are back. They've learned how to play without their tackles. Herbert has gone up a level.

2:01:42I like Carbaugh. over the Texans coaching staff in close games. Fine, fine. We've seen Harbaugh do this. Understandable. Think they can run the ball. If the Chargers win this, the Texans keep the Colts alive. And if the Colts can somehow beat the Jaguars, we would have a Colts-Houston game that means something. People are starting to get worried about there being no Week 18 game that has any sauce. I mean, Panthers-Bucks is going to be there. Yeah, that's what I mean. Does that game have sauce? We watched that game last Sunday. Did you enjoy it? It's the worst kind of sauce that's out there. I can't even come up with a bad sauce.

2:02:22It's the Mr. G's special sauce. Remember we were in Jersey Shore that time with Jacko? And we went to Mr. G's and they had the omelet with the Mr. G's special sauce. And we made like a million jokes. But Mr. G... Did anyone eat it? I don't remember. I was scared. I didn't know how Mr. G was depleting his sauce. All right. So that's pick three. Niners minus three Bears. We're both aligned on this one. And by the way, if Green Bay loses on Saturday night, the Bears clinch this NFC South. Would have the one seed to maybe play for. Not that realistic, but that line probably goes up. And then last but not least, we both like the Eagles and Buffalo against a Buffalo team that barely hung on against Cleveland last week.

2:03:02The Eagles might be getting some guys back house. Carter. Lane Johnson. Yep. Could this be the game where the Eagles tease everyone and they're thinking they're back and the NFC runs through them? Maybe. Maybe. No, this is a game, it lines up the same way where we watched the Eagles go into Green Bay and it's just this super low scoring. Their defense dominates. It's like that kind of game. It'll be interesting to see if the Eagles can force Josh Allen to not be in a fun game. That was today's Ringer 107 brought to you by FanDuel. Odds subject to change. any NBA thoughts you want to throw in before we go?

2:03:43I just did 90 minutes with Legor. Whatever the line is for that Cleveland. I like the Knicks on the money line. Oh, you want to do Christmas games? Want to do NBA Christmas really fast? I got a couple thoughts, you know, a couple games that I got circled. So you don't want to take the dysfunctional calves on Christmas? Dysfunctional family calves? I did give out, again, on the Monday show, the line for the Charlotte Hornets in Cleveland. and Cleveland was laying nine and a half. I said, please, everybody, run right now. It's middle of the day Monday. I know you're busy Christmas shopping. Get to the sports book.

2:04:17Grab the nine and a half. That's a big, fat winner. Of course, it was a big, fat winner right out there. Charlotte lost by seven. Not 10, though. That's a winner. They were down the whole game, too. Yeah, so we have Knicks minus six. We have OKC minus 11 and a half against San Antonio. That's too rich. Too many points. Dallas plus 235 against Golden State. The Rockets minus 180 against the Lakers. I have no idea who's playing for the Lakers. And then Minnesota plus 158 against Denver. You want to do a little five-teamer just for fun? Yeah, it's Christmas. Maybe we'll change our luck. It's Christmas.

2:04:55Let's see what we can do here. Okay. So Nick's Moneyline? Great. On board with that. OKC Moneyline? That's fine. they have you don't want to do the OKC money line? that line is 7 by the way what number did you say that was? for what? Oklahoma City and San Antonio I have 11 and a half on Thursday the Tuesday line is 7 yeah the Tuesday line is 7 okc minus 560 Dallas plus 235 or Golden State minus 290 will Draymond even be on the team on Christmas? is Steph Curry going to come out on Christmas well I mean here's the problem we're doing this Tuesday who the hell knows who's going to play in any of these games I kind of like Dallas want to take Dallas plus 7.5 okay that's fine I'm good with that Rockets, Lakers, Rockets, Moneyline you know what I prefer with that one it's 228.5 the total I think that's a fly over A super fly over 228.5.

2:06:04Okay. I'm going to do the Rockets minus 180 as well. Okay. Well, let's do money lines. The overs are too hard. Okay, fine. Do the minus, do 28 on your own time. All right. Minnesota, Denver. Denver minus five, Denver minus 188. And Anthony Edwards, never afraid of Denver at any point. Kind of like Minnesota. Interesting. So we would put two dogs into this five-legger, huh? Minnesota and Dallas. That's a giant parlay. Dallas plus seven and a half, Houston Moneyline, Minnesota Moneyline. Wow, that's a big ass number. That gets us. Wow. $100 to win $1 ,233? Better than 10 to 1. Better than 12 to 1 odds.

2:06:5212 to 1. Knicks, OKC, Dallas plus seven and a half, Houston, Houston, Minnesota money line. I mean, I like it based on what we've seen thus far this season. Is there anyone you don't feel great about out of those five? I mean... That you throw out Dallas? You want to do the Golden State money instead? That would be my preference, but that's okay. I don't mind. This is how you get it juiced up. And I understand Dallas is playing hard. They just don't have enough scoring at the end of games. Golden State, if it's Golden State money, that's plus 839. I like the Dallas plus 7.5. You do both. All right.

2:07:30let's see, maybe Fando will throw that on their Christmas thing for us. There you go. They can make a little tree and put these, these are the ornaments hanging down. House, go back to your rosé. Make sure there's a picture. See if you can make yourself sick. It's the frosé, not the rosé. It's frozen Christmas season. Frosé, that was the same thing. You almost got me in marital trouble. It's a trial separation. I drank it all. You broke my frosé machine. I didn't break it. I just drank it all. It wasn't broken. It was gone. It emptied it. Then I went to bed at nine o 'clock like an adult. Good luck with the gambling.

2:08:06Happy holidays. Let's go. Happy holidays. Good job by us. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Legs. Thanks to House. Thanks to Eduardo. Thanks to Gahal. Don't forget Rewatchables. Three up in the last week and a half. High Fidelity. Sure thing. And then F1. So enough content for me, at least, I think, to keep everybody busy over the holidays, not to mention all the other stuff you're watching and consuming. Have a great holiday. Thanks for all the support in 2025. Enjoy your fams. I hope you stay safe. And I will see you on Sunday night with Cousin Sal.

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