NBA Hot Takes, OKC’s Red Flag, and Giannis vs. Father Time With Kirk Goldsberry and Joe House

23:06Bill Simmons:And now I feel like in the playoffs, that's a legitimate six-man guy. That's somebody who could play with Cade in the last five minutes. I didn't feel that way three weeks ago. So that's why I phrased the Cade thing that way. I kept thinking, man, Houston could use this guy. He's that good. He could start for NBA teams. I wasn't saying that about him. He had a big mid-ranger last night. They tried to claw back in that game, just didn't have it at the end. But yeah, I've been really impressed with him and to your earlier point, without that injury decayed. We don't see that. He doesn't develop that.

23:38The team doesn't get that confidence with him in the fold.

23:41Bill Simmons:The two best guys that don't play as much as they could and would make me really wonder, like from a free agency standpoint, what they're worth. Legler was on A.J. Mitchell early. Like, could this guy just be the best guard on a real team? And I actually agree. I was even scared of him last night against the Celtics. I was like, shit, I hope they don't run more plays for A.J. Mitchell. And then Jenkins now, I think, has proven that maybe he could run a team. Like, he's doing this over and over again. Atlanta last night, who's been playing fantastic. And I thought he did a good job with them. That leads to my next take.

24:21Bill Simmons:Atlanta is real enough to make you believe, but not real enough that you won't regret believing in them?

24:30That's not a hot take. I'm going to give it a three. Okay. I believe in them. Again, the way I look at the game, this stretch is A, analytically very impressive for a sustained amount of time now. Yeah. And then B, if you talk to people around that team, Bill, the vibes are immaculate. There are people saying stuff like, we haven't had a locker room like this in decades. I wonder what changed. I wonder what it was. I wonder what happened. We'll ask Joe House later what it could be. But I think the key thing is they've not only had this major sort of vibe renovation, but they play so hard and so well for each other on defense.

25:10This is a great defense, potentially the best defense in the East, not named Detroit. And then Jalen Johnson's allowed to be more free, Nikhil Alexander-Walker, and they love Dyson Daniels. He's a weird guy. Jock Lawndale. They've put something together here that I wouldn't want to see in the first round. Where I'll go to you is, Bill.

25:32Bill Simmons:By the way, we should mention 14-1 in their last 15. Second in net rating, plus 14.4. What were you going to ask? Yeah, they've moved up to the five seed, and this is what I'm going to ask you. 5-4, this Hawks team versus that Cleveland Cavaliers team at the four. Who are you picking? So you think that you're assuming they can jump? Oh, yeah, right now they are. They're tied with Toronto. They made it to the five. 32 losses. They have the tiebreaker. So if you want to get super nerdy, Toronto has the tiebreaker. But these are two trains going different speeds right now. And I like that Atlanta is going to land at the five, if I had to guess.

26:08Bill Simmons:So if I'm Cleveland, I can't believe this played out this way. Where the whole time you're like, this is great. We get to play Toronto. We're going to kill them. and now all of a sudden this Atlanta team comes shot out of a cannon. Right. Here's why I don't totally believe in Atlanta yet. As good as they've been, and I agree with you on the chemistry, and the team actually makes sense. Like, when you watch them, the pieces fit together. The bench, I actually kind of like. I mean, getting rid of Trey and moving Richer Shea out of real minutes basically just changed their season. Plus McCollum. The problem.

26:44Bill Simmons:so when you get in a playoff series if you watch carefully Atlanta at the end of these games McCollum is their guy at the end of games a lot of CJ McCollum a lot of CJ now we like CJ CJ's had a really good career I'm a fan but now I'm going to playoff series and I'm in two point games with three four minutes left and now I have CJ McCollum versus Donovan Mitchell do I like my chances now I have now I have him against Jalen Brunson. I have him against Jalen and Jason. You know, like I just, this is the problem with the playoffs. If this is your guy and he has to match the best guy on the other team, you have CJ McCollum in that spot.

27:27Bill Simmons:And that's what makes me nervous about them. Last night, I think he had 11 or 12 straight points down the stretch for them. Nobody else could do anything against Detroit. And now he made the shots that won the game. But yeah, I found myself wondering the same thing. Is this really what we should expect from CJ in the playoffs? Is that, can you get out of round one if you're having hero ball with CJ McCollum? Could you take him out, just put, be like, look, we're taking him out, putting a bigger defender on him. As much as I love Jalen Johnson, and I don't know if he's second team or third team for me, but he's going to be on an All-NBA team.

28:00Bill Simmons:There's still an end of the game stuff with him that I think we're two years away from, right? Completely fair, dude. Yeah, he is majestic in the open court. He is a beautiful basketball player, but we have yet to see, all right, dude, go get it done in crunch time against a good defender. We're in the early stages of him. But the Atlanta, this is real. The home games there are going to be raucous. They have great playoff home crowds for some reason. And I think they really like this team. So that's one. Next take, Jamal Murray is a second-team All-NBA guy. I haven't checked in on my exact second team in a minute.

28:38I know he started red hot. he has had the season we've all been waiting for him to have in the regular season. I'll throw that back to you. I don't know if that's a hot take. Do you want to make the case one way or the other?

28:51Bill Simmons:Yeah, so you'd have to basically... I'm going down to my list. So you would have to... If you assume SGA, Wemby, Luka, Jokic, and Jalen is the top five, right? And Mitchell may be in the Jalen spot, depending on how we want to go. I don't know if we're going to get Cade back in time. He's got to play five out of the last 10 games, right? Yeah, it does sound like he's 100 % close to it. But even if he does come back, Jalen might have taken his spot regardless. Like when you think Jalen's going to be 70 plus games on a team that almost has the same record, etc. There's seven guys for that second team that I have.

29:30Bill Simmons:Cade, Mitchell, Jalen Johnson, Jamal Murray. I have Durin because I still want to vote for centers if I can. I still would like to preserve some semblance of the history of the league and not just vote for the top 15 guys. And then Kawhi and Ant. Kawhi's at 57 games. He can only miss two more. Ant's at 58. And I think those are the seven in some order. Kawhi's going to make this really hard if he gets to 65 because it's going to be really hard not to have him on a team, on the second team. Oh, at least. Yeah, by some metrics, he's a first-team All-NBA performer this year. But he's got to get to 65.

30:07And I said this to Zach the other day. It's like, this is so stupid. You know, the biggest thing we're watching for All-NBA over the last week of the season isn't like the game Jalen had last night. It's who's going to fill up the game's played column in basketball reference to 65.

30:22Bill Simmons:Yeah. Well, the players did allow it. So my guess is Durham probably falls to third team unless a couple of these guys miss the minimum. But to me, I would feel great about putting him on a second team because I think he's been the third best center in the league beyond Wembe and Jokic. I think he's the second most important reason that team's going to be the one seed. And he's been durable and consistent and really gives a shit night after night after night, which I just don't think we value enough with this stuff. like Jalen just showing up over and over again, Dern just showing up over and over again is a lot easier than guys that can just basically take some time off here and there and just get to like 66 games.

31:07I don't know.

31:09Bill Simmons:Yeah, the other one that I, the wild card for third team for me is Castle, but I want to see, you know, the best thing about this is we have as much time as possible so that we don't have to decide now. Okay, next take.

31:30Houston

31:33Bill Simmons:the body language doctor is just horrified it's bad this is bad first of all it's the most disconnected of all the playoff teams there's reminiscent vibes of Phoenix last year in that game we saw in person There's a play last night where they fuck up at the end of regulation and Shengun has to come down and he makes this absolutely insane block to save the game on Randall and then hits his face on the floor and his lips bleeding. And if you want, I couldn't believe it. I rewound it. I was like, oh man, the Rockets are going to run over him, right? Nope. Reed Shepard comes over, kind of like gives him a nice job, buddy.

32:18Bill Simmons:Like it's the end of the first quarter or something. Durant doesn't even acknowledge him really. and nobody else in the Rockets comes over and Shingun just walks back. This was like, you're on national TV. This was like one of the best plays of Shingun's career. It was insane. I thought he was going to get hurt. And that team is just so, so not on the same page that it was kind of like, yeah, good job, way to go. And then at the end of the game, when they screwed up again on the inbounds and you could just see Shingun standing near the basket like this, which you're, you know, kept it for an extra three seconds.

32:55Bill Simmons:I don't like the vibe. Something's really wrong with the Rockets. Specifically, the offense. So, like, since January 1st, I'm sort of stealing Zach's point with you guys on Sunday. You know, they've ranked 22nd in the NBA in offense for half the season, Bill. Right. But just to put that in context, there's 10 teams that aren't trying to win. You know, and there's a team like Memphis, who's 9-30 in that time, that has a more efficient offense than the team with Kevin fucking Durant on it. Like, what is going on here? How do the Memphis Grizzlies have a better offense than the Houston Rockets for essentially this second half of the season?

33:34And the vibes are off. I know we're going to talk...

33:38Bill Simmons:Off is like a compliment. The vibes are horrible. So they're 18th in their last 25 offensive rating. Yeah, it's not a small sample at this point. And it's the clogged toilet offense personified, which we had in Boston in 22. But I just can't believe how lazy the offense is. But you have Shagoon, who should be impossible to guard for some bigs. You have Durant, who is impossible to guard for virtually anybody. You have Amon Thompson, who's one of the most sort of attacking, driving players. You have Reed Shepard. There should be a top 15 offense in there. Am I right? So they don't have offensive rebounding anymore with Adams gone.

34:19Bill Simmons:They don't have a point guard. because Shepard just gets yanked in and out depending on how Emei's feeling that day. I think Emei, I think this has been one of the worst coaching jobs of the year. I don't see any adjustments late. The vibes are awful. I don't think he really likes the team that much. And if you want to go full conspiracy on it, they have not looked the same since the All-Star break and all the KD burner stuff, whether that was true or not true. They've not looked the same and they don't seem connected at all. Yeah, it crossed my mind too, yeah. every time I bring this up on a pod or when I had my column back in the day and it's like this something looks off and then I remember doing this with the Clippers when I go to the Clipper games it's like these guys don't seem like they like each other and then they would get mad and defensive and then years pass and it's like yeah we didn't really like each other yeah it was really uh it was really not great vibes there it's like yeah we could see it's basketball it's the most naked of all the sports we have and this Houston the vibes are off they just are and everyone wants to play them in the playoffs.

35:20Bill Simmons:Everybody. Nobody wants to play Minnesota. Nobody wants to play Luka and the Lakers. You want to play Houston. And I do wonder are we going to have jockeying if the Lakers in Denver if you had a chance to play Houston in the sixth seed are we going to have Denver just going all out trying to get to three seed being like we got to try to play Houston versus other years where we've seen teams go backwards and try to tank the last two games. I think it's going to be the opposite. If I'm Denver, I'm going full force for the three seed. Yeah, I think the three seed is very powerful there. Plus, you avoid OKC in round two.

36:00And again, as much as I want to be a Spurs homer, that's a good deal. So getting to three and playing Houston in the six, right now, LA is strongly, I would say strongly, in position to hold the three seed. But man, I would also give us something like a LeBron-KD playoff series, which would be electric in the first round. But I would not feel good about Houston's offense keeping up with the smoke show that is the LA Lakers offense at the stage.

36:29Bill Simmons:Or Houston's chemistry. Yeah, Houston. So the easy games they have left, they have Memphis. This is Houston. They have Milwaukee. They have Utah. They have the Golden State Corpses. Memphis again. So it's not like they're going to fall back to Phoenix. Denver on the other hand they have Utah and Golden State as their next two they have Utah again San Antonio, Portland, Memphis OKC who might not care at that point because they might have it locked up and San Antonio who might not care because they'll have the two seed locked up so there's a chance they could basically run the slate Joe House is here he has no idea what we're talking about hey Joe we're talking about the vibes on Houston and how this is not the good ship lollipop.

37:19Bill Simmons:Did you notice it last night on the television set? Buddy, I've been noticing it for a minute now, and you and I have been trying to pay close attention to this Houston team. I'll put it in this kind of context in the first place. You will recall as the trade deadline approached, their regular season win total was sitting at like 53 and a half. And I said, But if Houston doesn't do anything at the trade deadline, then I am hammering that under. I am taking some portion of the mortgage and putting it on the under for this Houston team. And it's largely because of something that we smelled out in the first half of the season.

38:01This was before the calendar flipped into 2026. They have fourth quarter scoring problems. And it looked like in the early season, we were wondering to ourselves in our text thread and otherwise, are they experimenting? Is there a reason that Reed Shepard isn't on the floor in the fourth quarter of these games getting touches? Is there a reason they're running offense through Sangoon and then trying to get Durant to bail them out? Well, all of those things are still staring us right in the face, and it's a failure. At this point in the season, we have enough of a sample size. This version of the Houston Rockets is not a serious team, not in this West the way that it's configured with the teams that are rounding into form.

38:43KG, you know this. This Lakers team especially. I mean, the West is too much. And this Houston, it's a bummer that Stephen Adams got hurt. They never came up with a replacement for the three-point shooting absence of Dylan Brooks and Jalen Green and FEV, who got hurt at the beginning before the season even started. And here we are. They are a first-round exit candidate, in my humble opinion.

39:11Bill Simmons:Well, on top of it, the team most likely to all go to dinner together, or least likely. When was the last time you think the team all got together and had steaks? Send us pictures if that actually happened. So, House, it sounds like you would be wagering. Fandle has this. They have those, what is it, where we can bet on when the team gets bounced in the playoffs? Oh, right. Elimination stage or something like that? Yeah, so it basically, it sounds like you would bet on, so team to advance to the Western semifinals, you would not be betting on Houston plus 160. That's what it sounds like. No, and that tells you something that it's, you know, the implied probability of that is not in favor of them advancing.

39:58All right, we're going to take a break and we're going to talk.

40:01Bill Simmons:I have a bunch of history stuff. Kirk and I have worked on some of it. House doesn't know anything we have coming. We're just going to throw it at him in one second. There's some incredible lineups in the NBA right now, but it's not just the individual players that deserve the hype. Sometimes it's the unexpected player combinations. Those are the ones that truly blow you away. So we're diving into some of my favorite player combos in top rotations. Good name. A special segment brought to you by Domino's, whose best they'll ever let you combine any pizza with any topping. for$9.99, pure synergy.

40:37Bill Simmons:So my favorite lineup lately in the NBA, the Celtics did this recently against Oklahoma City. They played Jason Tatum as the quote unquote center, but basically the five where they had him and Jalen out there at the same time with a shooter. It could have been Shireman. It could have been Hauser and then White and Pritchard. And it's a little small ball, but not really because Tatum and Brown both rebound and Tatum can protect the rim a little bit. And when you have shooting everywhere, It just is, it's a crazy look where you have five guys who can make threes, you can slash and you can still somehow protect the rim.

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43:04Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack.

43:09Bill Simmons:All right, Kirk, before we do our history lesson, two more quick things. Should we be disappointed in Ahmed Thompson where we are career-wise? House made a face. Why do you say 100%, Kirk? I say, because I look at the numbers, I love Oman Thompson. I think he still has All-NBA potential. But the reason specifically Bill Simmons is that he is modeling an inferior version of himself just compared to last year. In the exact phase of his career, where he's supposed to be blossoming into an all-star and an All-NBA talent, he's actually going the other way according to all the advanced stuff. If you want to bring it back to specific things, He's arguably the worst shooter in the NBA right now.

43:53He has the worst jump shooting efficiency and the worst shot making impact in the entire NBA. So he needs to become a shooter. Until then, defenses will be able to defend him very effectively. Yeah. And I thought that was going to happen this year. And in fact, he's gotten worse.

44:14Bill Simmons:The eye test is backing that up for me. I thought they were really giving him a chance to basically be like, maybe you could be our point guard. They've given up on that. And it seems like he's lost offensive confidence, House. I think House is nodding, so it seems like he agrees. Do you want a stat on it? Yeah, give us a stat. Yeah, so 216 guys have taken at least 200 jumpers this year. He ranks 216th by a Harris County mile, I would say. Um, he is, you know, I look at that guy for years. That's been something I looked at. I don't want him to be there. I'm not happy about this. Um, but to Joe house's point is like this dude should be an all NBA guy in the next few years, but that's the specific thing he's got to fix.

45:02So let me ask a question because this was the reputation coming into the NBA, the open question around the Thompson twins around both of them. Will they be able to knock down that open jumper that the NBA reveals? Their athleticism gives them that space, that room. Is it fair to be, I mean, the number is the number. 216 out of 216 is pretty compelling. But is it time? Is it fair? The circumstances under which he's being asked to kind of run this offense, he's not ready for it. And it's apparent. and he would be so well served, much better served in a version of the offense that existed last season, in a version of the offense that had Steven Adams, in a version of the offense with AVV, FVV.

45:51God, I'll get that right at some point. Running point is it, I mean, he's taking the shots, but he's not ready. That's the way that it feels to me.

46:00Bill Simmons:Well, if you just switched him with his brother in Detroit, is he in a better situation? Yes. Yeah. Right. It's a good way to look at it. Next topic, quick. MVP, so it's Thursday, still morning Pacific time. Shea's down to minus 700 now. Wemby's plus 650 and Luka's at 15 to one. If San Antonio passes OKC and gets the one seed, is there now a Wemby case for you? Because I'm not even prepared to consider it unless they're the one seed. If they're the one seed, I'm prepared to consider it. So House, would that change anything in your brain about the MVP and where you're landing. So I love that sort of phrasing of it.

46:44Will we consider it? Right now we're not considering it, but we would consider it if they achieve the one seed. I think that's exactly the right way to set it up. They're two back from OKC. And it's desirable to be the one seed in this West, for sure. You don't want to mess with what the 2-3 is going to produce going into the second round. But the answer to me is no, still. It's still SGA to me. That's how I feel as well. That's why, hey, guess what?

47:15Bill Simmons:We have 82 games to decide, not 70 and not 50, right? Kirk, if Wemby gets the one seed, does that change it? Yeah, I'll already take Wemby's case, just as the resident Spurs guy. Let me play the, let me make the case. Do it. The most impactful player in the NBA right now is Victor Wemby-Yama. And he is right. Defense is half the game, and any team that puts Victor Weminyama on the basketball court immediately becomes the best paint protection team in the league. It is fair to say, like, this is an 82-game award, and I think Victor's best case is since January 1st, since the Spurs have had the best record in the league.

47:58So I think, Bill, you have a strong point there. But I don't think he's that far down on offense on the ladder of most impactful offensive players. And I think he is by far and away the most impactful defensive player on this planet. And that's where I arrive at the place where he is the most valuable player in the NBA right now.

48:20Bill Simmons:So they played Denver two more times. Yeah. And once on Saturday, April 4th, and then last game of the season, April 12th, which could potentially mean something for Denver. And if he kind of kicks Jokic's ass in that April 4th game, I think there'll be some momentum, but we will see. Okay. Jalen Brown. House, I said, I think he has to be first team on NBA with 10 games left. I think he's in the spot now. He has a chance to lose it if he sucks the last nine games or whatever. A couple history Jalen things for you. Right now, he's 28.6 points a game, seven rebounds a game, 5.2 assists a game. So he's a 28-7-5 guy, edging toward 29-7-5.

49:07Bill Simmons:He's played 65 games. He's over 2 ,200 minutes. If you go in the NBA history and you try to find the 28-7-5 club this century, 28.7 rebounds, five assists, this century, it's Joker, Giannis, Luka, Westbrook, Cardin, KD, and LeBron. And that's the entire list. If you go history since 1968, basically, it's MJ, Bird, Kareem, and Havlicek have done it. It's only happened 25 times since 1970. 28.5 points and above, only 20 times in NBA history. and then even if you go 27 7 and 5 with guys playing 60 games or more in their year 10 season or later it's have a check lebron yokage and janice three times i don't think he's getting enough credit for the season and i'm not saying that as like boston homer guy i'm like because i'm watching it game to game i'm like this guy shows up every night and what he's doing statistically and now i guess the first question is house is there a little bit of a mid-90s steroids bump with some of these numbers?

50:14Bill Simmons:Are they all like 10 to 12 % higher than maybe if you're comparing them to 20 years ago, 30 years ago, just because of the pace, some of the changes they've made, is it just easier to be a 28, seven, five guy now? Well, we, we know the answer to that because we have regular, um, games not going into overtime where the teams are scoring 153 points or whatever. So we, we certainly, there is plenty of evidence, I think over the course of this season. The interesting thing to me is you have to draw a really, really, really hard distinction between Spider Mitchell, Cade Cunningham, and Jalen. Because you have three guys.

50:57I think we have three guys that we say are on first team no matter what. And that's Wemby, Joker, and SGA. I think Luka's on there no matter what now.

51:05Bill Simmons:I think he's grabbed the Yeah. I just think he has. I don't see any version where he's not on first team. You agree, Kirk? Yeah, I do. I say he has to be on now. The core four foreigners, as I always call them. Those guys are on everything now. Yeah, this is where Kirk gets xenophobic. He's like, what the fuck? I'm worried about LA 28, guys. That's all I'm saying. If you're going Jalen versus Mitchell, offensively even, Jalen, the stuff he is doing defensively is just at a complete new level that's not even near where Mitchell is. He's guarded. Last night, he guarded SGA for a lot of the second half.

51:42Bill Simmons:He's doing that game after game. He's choosing to guard the best guy on the other team. And then his record's going to be better. Right? And they've had similar injury stuff. So I just feel like he has to have an edge. Cade's a tougher one because they're going to be the one seed. Yeah. And depending on when he can come back in time, you know, that's why this isn't a slam dunk yet. But when you hear like the names that Jay wins in with this season, Kirk, does it make you go, whoa, I didn't realize it was that good? I hadn't thought about it statistically because for me, it's been almost like a real primitive thing.

52:18Like, oh, Shireman and Hauser and Hugo and this team is where in the standings? For me, it's just like, oh, it's because Jalen Brown leveled up. Oh, he is a mid-range game now. He's a leader now. So for me, that's where I was. And this is the question I would ask you guys. For me, it's almost like those core four foreigners who all happen to be in the Western Conference, right? Really, the question is, who's the MVP of the Eastern Conference? And to me, it's clearly Cade or Jalen Brown. Yeah, I agree with that. And I'm going to make you mad, Bill Simmons, because I think if Cade gets to 65, which is a big if, I'm giving it to Cade just because of what they've done, where they've come from.

53:00But I'll also say I'm not mad at anybody says it's Jalen Brown.

53:04Bill Simmons:Come on. I think it's fair. But you think like what the over-unders were before the year. Right. And the Celts were, what, 41 and a half and Detroit was 47 and a half. You're the Boston guy. I'm mad at you, by the way. How can we sit in October when we're trying to, you know, allocate our hard-earned money? Not enough. The point that is, the correct point is Joe Mazzula will not permit this. It doesn't matter. who's on the goddamn team. He has 12 players and he's rolling them out and they're going to play their ass off every goddamn night. That point wasn't made forcefully enough, I feel like.

53:43Well, I would say this, Joe, because Bill won't say it, but I think Brad deserves credit for building this sort of bones of this team now. It almost aspers like, it's like, oh, Tiago Splitter and Boris Diaz and Patty Mills are starting tonight? Oh, they're going to win anyway. That's what's happened. I didn't think about that last year. Think of the players they got rid of, right? In the offseason. It didn't give an indication, you know, that what they had in the pipeline wasn't jumping off the page. You weren't saying, oh, Kata's gonna, we're gonna see him with these upper echelon rebounding numbers and his rim protection.

54:20That wasn't the conversation we were having in October. I blame Bill Simmons, that's all.

54:23Bill Simmons:I like Kata. I never thought he would be in the running for most improved player, even though the odds don't reflect it. But if I had said to you before this season, House, Here are the minutes per game for this Celtics season. Somebody gave it to me in a time machine. Kata, 25 minutes. Hauser, 24. Garza, 15. Jordan Walsh, 17. And Shireman, 17. Hugo's going to play 15. We would have been like, wow, is that a 20-win team? What's going on? That's your fault. I blame you. The Shireman thing is, I'll tell you, I'm all in on Shireman as a playoff guy. And you saw it last night. the bigger the game is he kind of he kind of rises to the occasion it's pretty it's pretty crazy he's turning a real asset i would not if i'm sam hauser i'd be a little worried about being in boston next year because sam hauser makes 10 shireman makes you know two and that's that's one where you could get a little creative i think they have proof of concept they were like oh cornett that's gonna hurt no it isn't didn't hurt at all not one bit i still wish we had cornett it helped over here though, Joe House.

55:30Yeah, I understand. Thank you. Right place, right time. I will say this, Jay. I've never. Except for Magic City.

55:36Bill Simmons:Spent a whole decade with Jalen. Did not think he had this level up in him. I thought we were where we were with it. And I think it's really unusual in a year 10. There was stuff going on last night. My dad went to the game. We were talking about it. Like Jalen had a real fuck you energy last night. And I don't think he likes SGA. And I think he was mad about the free throws the last time and he was getting the line there a couple times when you could see him muttering under his breath and when he would get calls like muttering under his breath to sga and i just think in general he's become so much more of an alpha we went to those 2022 finals games when draymond was really like bitching him out and he's completely different guy at this point um okay so the jaylen case i thanks for making me feel like not a homer the sga um the stuff he's doing this year where assuming he's going to be first team on baguette so that's four straight mvp voting will be five two one and one assuming he gets it he'll be the best guard for four straight years, and he'll have won one title and maybe two, and he'll be at 31 points a game for four years, five and six, 53 % shooting.

56:53Bill Simmons:And if you go through the best guards of all time, MJ had seven straight first teams from 87 to 93, was 33 points a game. MVP was 2-1-2-3-1-1-3, three titles. Kobe from 06 to 10 was five straight first teams, 4-3, 1-2-3 MVP. And then Magic from 83 to 90 was nine straight first teams. Magic Johnson just lost in history now. And he was 27 and 12. He won three titles. I think SGA, if they win the title this year, obviously moves into this conversation. Even if he doesn't win the title, he might be at least knocking on the door of that group house? You prepared to come to grips with this? He's at least like, he knows where the address is now.

57:44Bill Simmons:And he's bringing a pizza and some beers. And he's like, hey guys, what's going on? And I can't believe it. Think about that. MJ, Kobe and Magic. But what SJ is doing, he's in the vicinity now. Is that fair? Of course it's fair. The combination of the success, the individual accolades, but really taking this team and letting it realize its full potential, it's because of him. He's the accelerant here. And, you know, the Presti acquisition, we'll do that, how that was a sliding doors moment in the NBA. But it set up this guy. It let us get the full reveal with this guy. and now that's a resume if he gets another chip either this year or next there's no reason they couldn't next year five year run next year even better yeah no reason I really respect it the first straight top 20 all time top 25 all time I have him in the high 20s now he's in like that 28s 27 range start getting those chips and that's the only thing that is missing for that resume I think that last step for the truly great ones.

58:57Bill Simmons:Like my dad went last night and, uh, he was just like, that guy's just great. Like you just feel like every time, especially in the fourth quarter and a half court, getting a stop against him, you feel great about it. Right. That's like the final level. You just assume he's going to score. You assume he can do what he wants. The foul baiting stuff. I know we've talked about that ad nauseum on a hundred different platforms. He's just really good at it. sometimes it's frustrating. I don't like it personally, but he's good at either getting the shot he wants or get into the line. And Kirk, it's fair to say he's in that group now.

59:36At least knocking on the door of the group for real. If you're going to win the scoring title in 2026, you're going to be foul baiting. That's the league we built. Okay. So that's my first point. My second point is sort of a humorous one. My favorite punishment for the Clippers for this aspiration thing is they just have to watch SGA. It's almost like a preemptive punishment. It's torture. It's torture. You had that dude. Dude, the thing you didn't even bring up is the 20-point game streak. Now, I usually don't care about streaks like that as a stats nerd, but it really is just as a fan of the game.

1:00:13He hasn't had an 18-point game, a 16-point game in like two seasons. Like it's 131 games now, Bill. And it does look like Kobe and it does look like Jordan in the mid range, which I love as an old head. Forget the stats, forget the analytics, but he's so talented with his footwork. I hate the foul baiting. I'll complain about it. I'm sure this playoffs, but his ability to score at all three levels as a guard is the best in class by far of his generation at the rim, in the mid range and beyond the arc. So he's just the perfect picture of what a great guard should look like in the mid-2020s.

1:00:52Bill Simmons:So back-to-back regular season MVPs, 13 guys have done it.

1:01:01Bill Simmons:Magic, Nash, Jordan, Curry are the only guards who've done it. Now you go back-to-back finals MVPs all-time. Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron, and Durant, and that's it. And we don't, now we didn't have this. We didn't have finals MVP for Russell's career. He would have won like 10 straight, right? But that's, he's on a couple lists there that those are all the best players we've ever had. had in the history of the league. So then you combine the other stuff and there you go. All right. We're taking a break and then we're going to throw this longevity thing at you house. Get in the game with the college branded Venmo debit card.

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1:02:16Try it today at Starbucks.

1:02:21Bill Simmons:All right, Kirk Goldsberry, I called you on Tuesday. and I threw something big at you about Giannis and Tedokopo. Coming off what Zach and I talked about on Sunday about how much would you give for Giannis this summer and just the concept of what can you expect for what he's going to cost, right? And that was my case to Zach, that he keeps getting hurt. He's getting older. He's moving closer to his mid-30s. Why am I going to give up the farm? Like if I'm Miami, why am I giving up basically every asset I have to try to get this guy when I'm not sure he's going to play? He's played 13 years, 895 games, 89 playoff games.

1:03:05Bill Simmons:He's over 29 ,000 minutes plus 3 ,000 playoff minutes. He's had one playoff win series, a series win in the last five years. Some of the injuries he's had, House. 2021, hyperextended knee. 223, bad wrist brain. 23, lower back contusion where he played hurt the whole playoffs when he landed on his back. A couple groin strains. 2024, left calf strain missed playoffs. This year, two different calf strains and a hyperextended knee with a bone bruise. Here's where I get scared. And this is what I called Kirk about and he's going to have some stuff for us. There's two different lists here, House, that would terrify me if I'm trying to trade for Giannis.

1:03:49Bill Simmons:List number one, guys year 14 of their career or later. Okay. 14th year or later. How many guys do you think have averaged a 2010 in 50 plus games in a season? Year 14 or later, just 20 points, 10 rebounds a game. How many times does it happen? Not a lot. 15 times. How about one guy ever? what? Moses Malone he had a 2012 in 1989 and a 2011 in 1988 and it's the only time it's ever happened with the year 14 or older guy ever. I was thinking about our era and guys like Carl Malone, he played a long time but at some point his 2010 automatic just fell off it became like a 25 and 9 so that's the other list here age 32 or later, so he's going to be 32 next year how many guys have averaged a 24 and 10 who are 32 years old or older 24 and 10 if i'm trading for janice i feel like it's a big decent number like 15 guys the same kind of answer so if i'm trading on my assets for janice pretty fair to expect 24 and 10 for a couple years right does that seem like if i'm trading for first round on protected picks for him am i expecting a 24 and 10 back?

1:05:15Bill Simmons:You say yes, right? Yeah. That's a hard in the absence. Like, Mikael Bridges was four firsts. Do you expect a 24-10? Did the Knicks expect a 24-10 out of Mikael Bridges? Giannis is a 29 and 13 guy when he plays normally. So, 24 and 10 seems reasonable. All right. Age 32 or later, only four guys ever have done it. Kareem twice. Hakeem twice. Carl Malone once. Elgin Baylor three times. have averaged 24 and 10 when they're 32 years old or later. It has not happened in 28 years. So if I'm betting on Giannis to be close to the 29 and 13 guy that he was, and I'm giving up all my assets for him, I'm banking on him bucking two pretty severe historical trends combined with him suddenly being healthy again when he has repeatedly not been healthy the last couple of years.

1:06:07Bill Simmons:And if I'm in that war room thinking about making trades, I just would say we can't. There's too much evidence that this is dangerous to do. So Kirk, I asked you to research this. What'd you come up with? Oh, I came up with so much. But first of all, I think somebody's gonna trade for him. So I wanna start with that. No question. No question. I would be very cautious because one of the sort of high-end things here, you had one more year in this deal. As you said, he's turning 32 at the end of this calendar year. So one year more year in the deal means you're trading for him. You're giving him a three or four year extension for like 60 million a year.

1:06:45Bill Simmons:So we're just putting that in there too. And the thesis here is that history teaches you, you should not get involved with paying a 33, 34, 35 year old big man, a lot of money. It's just a really bad idea. There's no shortage of examples. The analogy I have for you, Bill, as a, as a New England guy myself, this isn't Tom Brady at 32. This is Gronk at 32, right? And it's not just the miles on the car. I sent you a fake Carfax report on Giannis Antetokounmpo. This isn't the old lady who just drove the car to church. And the most staggering stat I have speaks to the wear and tear on Giannis' body.

1:07:31This is a man who needs power. In the course of the player tracking era, he's been fouled 6 ,500 times. He's the only player that has been fouled more than 6 ,000 times. I think Harden is close. It's not just that he's played 14 years. It's the kind of wear and tear. And when you look for examples of dudes that buck the trends that you're talking about, Bill, you're talking about guys who have a touch, a grace, a jumper. Hell, even LeBron James extended his career by doing what?

1:08:05Bill Simmons:Well, he's the smartest guy of the last 20 years. He just figured out all the little ways to keep going. And he became like a pretty good three-point shooter. And now you see him hanging out beyond the arc. I don't see that for Giannis. Giannis is Christian Acoya. Like I said to you on the phone, like this is a dude who is just built to collide and overpower people. So it's a little more like Shaquille O 'Neal, 90s, early 2000s of kind of a little more of the brute force than somebody like Durant who can just operate in the fringes and get to 27 a game when he's 37. Yeah, so I don't know if we can do this on Netflix, but I plotted out a bunch of aging curves for the best big men.

1:08:49And to use a term from the rewatchables, whether we're looking at Giannis, Garnett, O 'Neal, Duncan, or Embiid, these are guys I consider the best bigs of the modern game. They all peak at 30. They all peak at 30. It's Apex Mountain. at age 30. And not only that, the second biggest feature of these curves is they go down fast. Even my beloved Tim Duncan, the Spurs did better than anybody extending this dude's career. They needed Kawhi and Manu and Tony to win once he got past that apex. So I just don't see a bright future for Giannis. I love the player. But as a student of history and stats, there's just not a lot of reason to believe this guy is going to play at an MVP level or an all-NBA level going into his deep 30s.

1:09:38Bill Simmons:Yeah, and I think Dwight Howard's a good example of this, right? And I remember talking about this when it happened, like that he had that incredible Orlando run, but 2011-12 range, his back was already starting to bother him. There were some signs like, also like what, it's not like he was adding anything to his game that was going to make him more special. Giannis, at least like, you know, they can do the 1-4 offense with him and try to have him go and barrel into the basket. and maybe he could just be this incredible outlier house. Like we've had outliers. LeBron's an outlier. Tom Brady's an outlier.

1:10:11Bill Simmons:I guess my question is, what would be the outlier function with this other than him just being somehow healthy and not having wear and tear? Like he's not going to add a three-pointer at this point. He's never going to be a great free throw shooter. Could he reinvent himself as like more of a low post guy? Or is this just going to be who he is where he just keeps getting kind of banged up or hurt and he's 58 to 60 games every year and that's it. What do you think? The answer to that question depends on where he lands and what they require of him. What the Bucs have required of him over the last five years since they won the NBA championship is the version that we watched that has, as a feature, all of the injuries that you just listed because it's a style of play that he is uniquely suited to be successful at.

1:11:01But, you know, they could not because of, you know, the way they were configured and some bad luck and maybe some bad decision making. Building a team around him, they couldn't afford him to play any other way. He could only play that one way. And that was true with Dame on board. You know, it's been true since they won the NBA championship. I don't know if that's going to necessarily be required of him at the Knicks with Miami. I don't know who the candidates are that can pull together a package that's attractive enough. It makes no sense whatsoever for any team that's in a rebuild mode. No, it's a desperate team.

1:11:43Desperate in which way? Desperate like Cleveland because Cleveland loses in the second round this upcoming season. Desperate like, you know, help me understand desperate. And then we can try and figure out what role he can play.

1:11:54Bill Simmons:It's Cleveland losing and realizing they've basically taken this Mitchell Mobley, Jared Allen, that whole nucleus as far as it can go. Should we just trade Mobley for Giannis right now with a couple other things and try to cash in on two, three years of Giannis hoping he can be here? It's the Knicks basically packaging Townsend and Innova together with some other stuff and hoping that they can get two, three years out of Giannis. But I think the really instructive one, because I spent a lot of time trying to figure this out and look at it in history. You think like KG, when the Celtics traded for him in 07, 08, and the thinking with KG was, can we get five years out of this guy at this level?

1:12:34Bill Simmons:Same type of thing with Giannis. A lot of wear and tear already. He played a lot of games, a lot of minutes, a lot of miles. And what happened? They won in 08 with him. He got hurt in 09. 2010 made the finals but he wasn't the same kg like he had three rebounds in game seven in 2010 finals not the same guy then 2012 they lose in the uh conference finals so you you got five years out of him but you really only got one awesome year out of him right shaq's another one with miami they trade for shaq i think they could have won an 05 house and i still feel that way that if uh wade does get hurt maybe they actually win the title they do win an 06 and then it goes off the cliff and he's done.

1:13:17Bill Simmons:And I think with Giannis, I think you have to look at it if you're trading all this stuff for him. History says it's probably one or two years that you're going to get that'll be really good and that's it. Which means to me it has to be a team that's close. So I look, if I'm the Warriors, I'm so happy I didn't get them. If I had to give up all my expirings and all my first round picks and like now I'm betting on injury stuff with him and Curry, who by the way has continually gotten hurt and probably should be still getting hurt because he's in his late 30s. Where was that getting me? I think it's really only a Knicks or a Cleveland.

1:13:54Bill Simmons:I don't think San Antonio would go near him. I don't think OKC would go near him. It's not their style. I thought Houston was a great candidate for a long time, and I would still have Houston in the mix. But am I beating OKC or San Antonio with him? With Van Vliet back? Bill, I actually heard there's a mystery team. I called around as part of this exercise to see who were potentially desperate places for Giannis to land. And somebody who knows stuff told me that Orlando has actually been very active in seeking out Giannis Antetokounmpo services. Now, desperation sort of sets in in the NBA when?

1:14:34After the first round of the playoffs. So there's 16 teams that think they're in it. Two weeks later, there's eight teams that are out. That's where I think the Houston's, who else should we say? The Orlandos are going to emerge. The Knicks, Cleveland, right? That's the group I'm looking at because somebody will talk us themselves into it. And I could definitely see it being somebody like Orlando who has a player that could be appealing to send back. But unfortunately, they gave all their picks away to Memphis to get Desmond Bain. Long story short is, I do think you guys are onto something. There will be a market.

1:15:09there will be a team that talks themselves into it, whether they should or not. But the window is very short. Remember, he's going to sign a new deal in 2027 next fall. And that's going to be start when he's 34 years old and go deep into his 30s. And I think Atlanta is in there too.

1:15:31Bill Simmons:However it goes with them, I still feel like they have the assets to make a move for him. You could talk yourself into screw it. Let's try to really go at it here in the Eastern Conference. They're not going to be desperate, but they might see it as an opportunity. And then the one I looked at, and the reason I wanted to do this, not just because, oh, we should do a Giannis trade thing, because I think what happens in the playoffs is going to determine a lot of the desperation. So as we look at how the last two weeks of the playoffs are shaking out, our regular season shaking out. Who's going to potentially have a terrible playoffs?

1:16:14Bill Simmons:Then the desperation comes in. So Charlotte, I was thinking like, man, they have a couple of really good draft picks. They really like their team. And could you just turn Miles Bridges and a bunch of picks into Giannis and try to make a real run at this and hope that you can get two, three, four years out of them? I'll just tell you, if I was in that inner circle war room, I would probably be the voice saying it makes me nervous I don't think we should do it yeah like the worst case example of this ever was the Lakers with Kobe when the Chris Paul trade fell through and they went after Dwight Howard and Steve Nash right two guys with bad backs Nash was already like headed toward a decline and then Dwight Howard they only had for a year and were keeping their fingers crossed that he was still Dwight Howard And then, you know, that really set them back.

1:17:09Bill Simmons:And that ended up, they tanked for three years after that. So here's what I want to ask you, though, because I hit you this with Embiid last year. I'm going to give you the same question with Giannis. If we're picturing the career arc of Shaq in 2026, which version of Shaq is Giannis Antetokounmpo in March of 2026? So I think it's 04 Shaq. end of the Lakers era right before the heat. So if that's true, then you got to give assets because that's a title winner right there. Here's the difference. Crucial difference. Giannis has been in awesome shape and gives a shit over and over again. He has cared about whatever the best version of himself physically can possibly be, right?

1:17:59Bill Simmons:Shaq in 04 and 03 and really 02 played himself in the shape during the year. in 04 was not in shape at all. And when he went to Miami in 05, it was, I'm coming to take my corners back, kind of a Kaiser Soze. I even did the, what did I call it? The revenge scale or something like that. I did a whole page two thing about Shaq. And he did, for those two years, he was in shape. And he did kick ass and he was great. Giannis is who he is. Like you're training for the guy that he's been the last couple of years. The calf strains really make me nervous. because it's recurring. It's not like there's been one.

1:18:37Bill Simmons:It feels like this is just a thing that keeps happening to him now. And I don't know why that would get better. House, I was saying that the Giannis-Shaq, the difference is Shaq got into awesome shape. Giannis is already in shape. So that would be the one difference. The only thing I'll say on the calf strain point, which is concerning because we now have in this, especially this year, the hyper focus on Achilles protection and the amount of running the guys are doing and how this version of the NBA, the way it's played now at a speed and then the amount of running it greatly exceeds anything in previous history.

1:19:14I wonder if that is a new way to conduct some load management, especially with Giannis. Like you only kind of need one in his history and then you can safely point to it anytime that you need him to not play a handful of games. said well it's a there's a calf calf tension kind of situation there it's in his look look it's in

1:19:35Bill Simmons:his it's in his history his medical history so kirk the other one that uh was rumored a bunch was minnesota who seemed like they were trying to move heaven and earth to figure out how to get him which would have involved trading half the roster to different places to get enough assets to cut i never really understood it yeah it seemed like it screwed them up a little bit afterwards because basically every guy except Dan was in a trade rumor. And I would assume this summer, maybe it's a little easier. They still don't have the picks in the same way. So my guess is it'll be the Knicks or Cleveland unless there's like an Orlando.

1:20:12Bill Simmons:It's so bad and they're just like, whoa, Paolo for Giannis. Let's just call it in. And especially like who knows? There's always been rumors with there's always been rumors like how long will Palo stay in Orlando anyway. Who knows? Yeah, you hear all this stuff about Minnesota. I've been hearing it for years with Tim Connolly and Giannis. I don't know if it's true, but then there's the rumors that Giannis had them on his preferred list that may or may not even exist. And then the other team I heard, Bill, is Portland, in part because that would be ideal for Milwaukee to get back a lot of their own picks from previous deals.

1:20:50So I think there will be a huge marketplace for this guy. So I think there's really two questions with Giannis in 2026.

1:20:56Bill Simmons:But the question is, should there be as big of a marketplace as you think based on the history of all of this stuff? And I don't know the answer. It all comes back to desperation, right? And this is a marketplace where desperate GMs and desperate ownership groups tend to do irrational things. And the market forces are controlled by desperate people in a lot of times. So I do think somebody like Miami, New York, Charlotte would be great. But will they talk themselves into that? I think they will. And that's where I'm going to land here. I think that somebody will probably overpay for the amount of risk they'll have to absorb to add Giannis Antetokounmpo to their roster.

1:21:36Bill Simmons:So the case for it is you say, look, we've had historical outliers over and over again. Kevin Durant is still scoring 26 a game and shooting 50, 40, 90 splits. LeBron is at age 41, still a valuable piece on a team that has a chance to make the finals potentially. Tom Brady played to his 45. Like you would have to start looking at the all-time outliers and asking if, why couldn't Giannis be like that? He's been in awesome shape his whole career. He had some bad luck with some stupid things. Some of those injuries, like, sorry, he fell on his back. And that's why the 2023 playoffs went sideways.

1:22:14Bill Simmons:Like that's not Giannis' fault. The wear and tear stuff is all fixable stuff. It's not like he blew out his patella tendon. Right. So if you're in one of those rooms and you start going glass half full, that's where you start talking yourself into it. And it's like, Carl Anthony Towns just sucked. He's the reason we're not in the playoffs anymore. And, you know, you start turning out your own guys and talking yourself into the glass half full case for somebody else. And that's how it would go. I would just, I thought it was notable that San Antonio and OKC were like, we're good. Yeah. Two teams that had more than enough to trade for him.

1:22:51Bill Simmons:And honestly, Houston seemed like we're good. This ain't the year for us. So the fact that three of the smartest teams in the league weren't intrigued at all. I had heard different things about whether Boston kicked the tires on it. I don't know what to believe with that. I think everybody at least nudged it a little. So there you go. Yeah, year 14 or later, House. Moses Malone, your guy. On the Wizards. 20 and 10. Famous Washington Bullets. Moses Malone. House, I got a mailbag question from somebody about the Wizards that I was going to throw at you that I have to find. It was about the best five players in Wizards history.

1:23:37Bill Simmons:Would they lose in a playoff series to every other team's best five players in the history of their franchise? It's not even close, of course. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. The best five players of every other franchise in NBA history, does that include the Vancouver Grizzlies? You would beat the Grizzlies. Or maybe you wouldn't. That's like Marc Gasol, Zach Randolph, Mike Conley. Grit and grind. So the listener was Chris Mooney. And he asked if the top five all-time was Wes Unseld, Elvin Hayes, Bradley Beal, Gilbert Arenas, and John Wall. the best starting five we've had I would throw I would have Dandridge in there instead of Bradley Beal sure that's fine Beal because of the length of his career Beal's out but we can't have him anyway for the hypothetical fake time I don't want his chemistry but Bobby Dandridge was a playoffs MVP in 1978 we didn't have playoffs MVP so I'm looking at Big Wes Elvin Hayes Dandridge Gilbert Arenas and John Wall I mean you have to look at Charlotte here are the teams Charlotte, New Orleans so Charlotte, can I have LJ and Alonzo Mourning in that?

1:25:05Bill Simmons:I can and then I would probably have Lamello Khan and Brandon Miller as my other three oh no I can get Baron Davis with that No. I can have Glenn Rice from the mid-90s. Oh, that's a good player. That's amazing. I don't know, man. We're going to do some work on this. Maybe later. Please note, I didn't hesitate. You have to go to expansion teams. You have to go to expansion teams. Teams have only been around the last... Because remember, this Washington franchise hasn't won 50 games since when? The last time. it's been 50 years since the last time they won 50 games because even you would say like Sacramento would have to be worse than those but it's like no Sacramento I get Oscar Robertson I get C-Web I get some of the dis-matter I might be able to put Boogie Cousins on that team as my center I could have Darren Fox as my point guard yeah Wes Anseld, Elvin Hayes, Dandridge, Arenas and Wall that's just a weird team I'm going to have to as a project I might have to go through and really try to figure out what would the Hawks team be?

1:26:18Bill Simmons:Oh the Hawks would get Bob Pettit. That's the thing. It's like all these other teams have a guy who would be like somewhere in the top 30. Kurt Goldsberg, we cover everything? Yeah dude. How are you looking at March Madness? You got any picks? House, what do you so we're taping this Thursday. We can't really do the Thursday games but the Friday games which include our guy Acuff. We were on that so early. House and I. We were aligned without ever talking about it. But we have on Friday, we have St. John's Duke. We have Alabama, Michigan. Oh, Acuff's playing tonight against Arizona. Thursday night.

1:26:57Bill Simmons:Yeah. All right. I got a good note on Acuff that you'll love. First of all, I think he'd be the perfect Hawks player thanks to Joe Dumars. So if they somehow get lucky and get that position. In the McCollum spot. Right. Yeah. Be perfect. right? But after the University of Texas played Arkansas this season, Sean Miller, our head coach at Texas, just went to the postgame presser and was like, that's one of the best guards I've ever seen play the sport of basketball. He was just like awestruck by how great he is. So, yeah, what a player he is. There's been some terrible comparisons with him. Like, Stephen A was talking about how he's like Iverson.

1:27:34Bill Simmons:Like, he's not like Iverson at all. Not even a little bit. Remind me of Iverson in one way. Yeah, I don't like anybody who says Derek Rose. That's ridiculous. No, it's a little Kyrie and a little Chris Paul and a little Dame. He's Dame to me. Yeah, those three. He's Dame to me. Yeah. I love when they ding him on the defense. Like Dame guarded anybody for 13 years and like Kyrie guarded anybody. Like, what are we talking about? Oh, his defense isn't good. Okay, cool. What point guards? Steve Nash was so good on defense. Like, what are we? You're drafting him for his offense. house tonight. I don't know.

1:28:12Where do you stand on Burris? Love him. I have him at minus 122 in the FanDuel Sportsbook for at least two three-pointers. His three-point shooting over the last 13 games, he only has one game in the last 13 where he's taken less than three. Over that period, he's shooting 26 for 53 from the field. This is not a setup. You didn't tell me ahead of time that we were going to talk about this guy, but I bet on him, so I have these numbers available in this place right here. Let's go. Love him.

1:28:41Bill Simmons:He's going to be a good pro. This is what I worry about with our guy Acuff tonight because Burris is a real dude. Big physical. Kirk, the secret story of the 2020s that hasn't been told is LA basketball, the freaking renaissance, just producing over and over again these awesome players. And there's even been some guys who were kind of a letdown, but they've over and over again have trotted them out. It feels like half the NBA is from LA. And I don't know what happened. I'm a New York basketball guy for life. Mick Cronin should be able to keep him at home. Maybe if Mick Cronin was such a prick, they would stay and play in UCLA.

1:29:14Kirk, are you excited for your 21 and 14 Texas team

1:29:17Bill Simmons:in a couple of hours? Dude, they've overachieved in this tournament. I want to give my hats off to those guys. I'm more excited for two other things in Austin. Our women's team is the number one seed. They should make the final four. And my editor at TheRinger.com, Isaac, he's getting married this weekend in Austin, Texas. So I'd like to give him a shout out to the ringer zone, Isaac. Great job, Isaac. Yeah. But anyway, the Longhorns got to play the Boilermakers. Great coach, Matt Painter. Great three group of seniors in Purdue. As much as I'd love to pick the Longhorns, I think the Boilermakers are probably a safe bet tonight.

1:29:53Bill Simmons:House, what's your relationship with Patino? Obviously, I hate him for ruining the Celtics for four years. But you've kind of enjoyed him over the years, I feel like. Well, any, any time there's Italian food and sex under a table, you've got me for life. Like that's, those are two things that you, it doesn't matter. 23 seconds. Those are top 10 things on my list, my life list. So yes, Patino guy right here. But come on, when he got back to St. John's and restoring that program and giving it that oomph again, giving it that New York swagger, and that team taking his identity, their defensive intensity, I love it.

1:30:33I love it so much. I'm here for all of it. These games in D.C. are going to be outrageous. St. John's, Duke, and UConn, Michigan State. How are we so lucky? I mean, I wish I could afford a ticket.

1:30:44Bill Simmons:Kirk, I wish you knew us in college when these teams we would attach ourselves to, like the Kenny Anderson Georgia Tech team. Remember how much we loved them? Oh, that was a great team, that Georgia Tech team. We loved Kenny Anderson so much. That's still one of my biggest disappointments ever from college to pros, is the Kenny Anderson not being one of the 50 best players of all time. He had everything. That era, man. He was so special. There was just, I still don't feel like there's anyone, I don't know if I've ever seen a point guard quite like him. It was like he had like the magic passing gene.

1:31:22Bill Simmons:He was lefty. He was so much fun to play with. The algorithm threw at me sometime in the last two weeks, that LSU Georgia Tech game with Shaq and Mahd Albu. Oh my God. Raouf against Georgia Tech with Kenny Anderson cooking and Georgia Tech pulled it out right at the end with Kenny Anderson. and I was like, man, this was good mother effing basketball. This was outstanding college basketball. So that's when you guys were on Holy Cross? Every time I drove 290 across Worcester, I think about you boys up on that hill watching basketball together. We had some great college basketball memories back then.

1:31:57Bill Simmons:St. Patrick's Day at Holy Cross, which was the biggest day of the year, was the Princeton almost upside against Georgetown, which was just like, everyone packed in a giant place watching it. And then we also, I mean, the worst memory was the Gathers. That whole thing was so awful. But that was a team we really liked watching. But then we had the Bo Kimball, the tournament run. That was amazing. And then House was graduated by the time the Duke-Kentucky game happened. But we had UNLV Duke when we were there. It was kind of the last real heyday. And then Arkansas was incredible during that era. The house and I might've been the first two people on the East coast to really profess our love to the fab five.

1:32:42Bill Simmons:I don't know. I, I can't verify this with anyone else. We were so in on those guys, right? We were in on that when they all decided to play together. Yeah. We were like, what's going on here? They're going to have all the best guys to go to Michigan. Um, but that was that whole era we loved. And we let, we talked about this with Jalen, but we love Jalen in college. We, We never gave up the stock with him. One of my favorite nights ever with the sports guy was with 2014 finals. You and Jalen were here in Austin. That was when we reunited the Fab Five. Jacko. Ray Jackson. Ray Jackson. I was there.

1:33:21Yeah. House was there. We came in eight. That was a pinch me moment. Yeah. Yeah. That was a pinch me moment because I also love the Fab Five and never believed in my life I would ever be spending time with Ray Jackson and Jalen in a bar. That was awesome.

1:33:36Bill Simmons:It's still unbelievable to me that they never actually won the title with what the embarrassment or riches they had. But that's how good college basketball was back then. All right, we lost House's camera at the tail end. Kurt Goldsberry's camera is still working. So Kurt Goldsberry, that was awesome. What a sports weekend. Sweet 16, baseball starting. NBA like a lot of playoff jockeying a lot of stuff going on we got the NFL draft coming up so great times all around thanks to Kirk thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as always thanks to House and his camera that stopped working and I'm going to be back on Sunday night on this podcast live on Netflix with Zach Lowe so we'll see you then

1:34:27I feel everything on the wayside.

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