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26:23They don't really for the next few. This is a deep draft. They're sitting here at 13 and 23. They've already lost Lively. You're looking down I-35 at San Antonio. You're looking at Houston. You're looking at OKC. Oh, my God. You have a, and this is what I wrote in that piece. It's a draft right now. I said, like, there's two kinds of bad teams in the league. There's a kind of team that doesn't have a direction like Chicago. And then there's a team like Dallas that's blessed with, you know, Cooper Flagg and Derek Lively. And that at least gives you a path forward. And I say the clear move here is to go to the bottom for Dallas, however they get there, and go get another guy next to Cooper and Lively and start there and see what you can get for PJ, see what you can get for Gafford, maybe see what you can get for AD, let Kyrie take his time coming back.

27:11I think that's such an obvious path forward, but I don't think this current Dallas leadership is thinking that way. Interesting, because they're a good trade machine team. They have multiple guys that other teams would want. Like PJ Washington, reasonable contract, right? He's around 15, 16. Anybody could go grab him and put him in a rotation and you would need him. Gafford's another one. Plug and play. I worry about the lively piece and just him long-term from a health standpoint. Because I think that was one of the things people were worried about with him coming out of high school and college.

27:48And now he's hurt again. And then I'd also worry if I were them about Cooper Flagg coming to the Celtics in four years. I think that's a real threat. but like tank, but don't tank too hard. His whole family's in Maine and their house is covered with Celtics stuff. And his mom is probably the biggest female Celtics fan in New England. So I'd worry about them just a whiff. Yeah, it's interesting. But just from a team building perspective, they have to look at it, man. Like it's just the writings on the wall, but what's really interesting, and you'll love this too, they currently have co-interim GMs.

28:24They have sort of Mark Cuban in a quasi-involved role again, the current owner. It's just who would make the decisions, Bill, for a team like this to be aggressive at the deadline one way or another? An emotionally scarred team, by the way, that probably doesn't ever want to make another decision. Yeah, that's not irrelevant. Like, they are going to be pretty gun-shy about big trades, right? Because they don't want to repeat the disaster that they just lived through in 2025 again in 2026. Yeah.

28:58I just, if I was a Mavericks fan, I'd probably have to see a therapist like twice a week to get through the last year. Even though it all ends up with Cooper Flagg. Right. That is incredible to watch and is doing things at an age that is about as unusual as it gets. I just, the question for me with Davis, what is he worth actually versus, oh, it's Anthony Davis. He's worth this. It's like, is he? What is the, from a wear and tear standpoint, from the fact that the ringers, Rich Paul, will probably want an extension for him. That's a big point. I just don't know what teams are actually giving up for him on top of the fact that it's impossible to make a trade for a$50 million guy anymore.

29:45So, you know, I just, what is that? What's that Carfax report looking for him? when you get it in. It's like, oh, 132 ,000 miles. I thought this was going to be like 88. I didn't realize they changed the engine. He's taught me more about abductor strains than I've cared to know in my life. I didn't know what that was. And then Anthony Davis. But yeah, if you tell me he's healthy, he helps every team. If the Celtics got him, he fills a lot of gaps. But with the CBA and the trade rules, I'm just, yeah, we'll talk about their frontcourt, I'm sure, in a minute. But it's hard to trade them in the regular season period.

30:26It's harder to trade them when your front office has co-interim GMs and your owners are still trying to figure out what's going on here. I just don't think they get it done. I could be wrong. But I just don't think they have the leadership in place to pull that off right now. We'll take a break and then we'll hit the next 21 teams. The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by FanDuel Football Fans. we've waited all year and right now it's time to switch the mode to playoff mode on Fando America's number one sports book right now all Fando customers can get in on the action with a wild card reward for NFL wild card round or as I call round one just pick your card you can win up to 100 profit boost I'm not ready to do my picks yet uh I am leaning pretty hard toward Jacksonville would be one I would throw in there.

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32:34All right, the Can't Quit Yet group continues with Memphis at 15 and 20. I don't have a lot to say here other than I was on the record as not loving the Jaron Jackson extension. Yeah. I still think when you're talking about paying that much money for somebody, I just need a little more. Yeah. You know, ironically, I feel this way about Jimmy Butler and Golden State. Jimmy Butler, a player I like, but for$54 million a year, it's just too much money in a league where you really can only afford to have one or two guys making that much on your team. I don't know what they do with Jha. every once in a while, I'll get a text from somebody being like, heard so-and-so is interested in job.

33:16Like, really? And then nothing happens. He looks great when he looks great. The Jaron Jackson thing, though, that's the most interesting thing. You know, basketball isn't baseball. You can't just plug and play these guys into any team and kind of know what you're going to get. He looked great defensively when Steven Adams was there, sort of collecting rebounds and clogging up the paint, and that freed him up. Team USA, when we tried to use him at the five, It just wasn't good. He needs like a bigger, stronger, traditional five to really be the defensive impact that we've seen him be. And then there's also giant red flags on the other end of the court, Bill.

33:54He's arguably the worst finishing big man in the league right now. He does this thing where he tries to drive the ball almost like Giannis from the top, and it just never works. He gets halfway there, and then it just can't finish. so I'm with you that is looking awkward maybe Zach Eady is the guy next to him and it all clicks in but right we can't keep him on the court I mean your earlier pick right draft well yeah and and ironically need a point guard and have one but have no idea what we're getting out of that guy going forward and you know if he's not going to be as reckless as he used to be I don't know what's left if he can't, he's not like a great shooter.

34:38And the league is just way better, way more explosive. Everybody has a good guard. And like Trae Young, not to cut off the Portland sideway, but like Trae Young, the league is just a little too woke these days for a one-way offensive guard who's going to be just a weak link on the defensive end that smart teams will just attack over and over and over again. You have to be an exceptional offensive player if you're going to bring that little to the defensive end. We just have so much more talent that I don't even know. All you have to do is just go through I was looking at the 06 Lakers and how Kobe I think he finished fourth in MVP.

35:19I voted for him that year and he averaged 35 a game. His best four teammates which I had kind of forgotten. No Laker fan has forgotten this but I forgot it. His best four teammates were Lamar Odom who was good. Yeah, very good. Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton. That was his team. Like three of those guys would not be in rotations for three-fourths of the teams we have now. Would not like play minutes at all. And, you know, as the league evolved over the next 20 years and you could get away with a Trae Young in like 2017 when we didn't have a ton of scoring. Now we do. We have teams averaging 124 points a game.

36:02It's a great point. And we also have these young buck coaches that we were describing earlier that know how to exploit every weak link that you put on the court on your defense. Like, that's the other thing. Tactically, we know how to get Trey Young on an island and attack it. And I think that's the other thing that's happened. Well, that's the problem with Porter. Trying to win a title and you get Porter, you're in the same position Denver was in where he's just going to be thrown into every screen and every pick and roll, and he's going to be the guy they pick on. So his offense has to be awesome to offset that.

36:38Portland, number 20. 17 and 20 somehow, even though Scoot Henderson, haven't seen him. Drew Holiday got hurt pretty early. Avdi is a 25. He's great. 7 and 7 guy. And really should get thrown into all the terrible things that have happened to the Wizards this century list. I think giving up on that dude when he was that good. I want to mention, because they beat the Celtics. It was the only game on the road trip the Celtics lost, and I watched it. I think Klingin's terrific. Right. I really like him as a big guy. I liked him in the draft. I thought both him and Edie went maybe a couple spots too late because it's so where the league was going.

37:20I just like these big guys that can rebound and defend the rim. He killed the Celtics. and it was the only mistake Missoula made on the whole road trip was he went small in the last three minutes and Klingon killed them, got a big offensive rebound and a putback. But I think they really got something with him. I like their assets. I don't know what I do if I'm Portland. I might try to like kind of zag the other way maybe. Like this is a team, maybe this is a team that takes a flyer on one of these dudes that are available. Yeah, I mean. Lamello, Trae Young type guys. I think Trae Young, yeah, they have to be looking at that.

37:54They're 17 and 20. They're in the wrong place in the standings. The league punishes that record at the end of the year. If that's where you're going to be, here's your prize. You get nothing. And look, they've beaten OKC this year. They've beaten the Spurs in San Antonio. They beat the Celtics. They show glimpses. Tiago, I like Tiago as a head coach. I remember they had a crisis in the coaching staff. Unprecedented crisis. His house was on Redfin. oh really Billups is over yeah there was an article about how he's selling his house this story is grim like that coach is not coming back is Closterman gonna move in there do you think I should talk to him about it yeah maybe grab the Billups house probably a good poker room in there I like where Portland's at I'd be interested to see if they took a swing on somebody could also be an Anthony Davis team by the way they're in play for a bunch of stuff from a contract standpoint a little tough but Klingon and Avdia, they have some good guys.

38:55Yeah, they have good guys. And Kamara, we didn't mention, they have some guys I like. Number 19, Milwaukee, they're 16 and 20. They're 14 and 8 when Giannis plays. They have seven guys averaging 10 points a game. They have Rollins and Kevin Porter at 36 points a game combined, which is one of those when you're going through the stats, you're like, wait, what? Yeah. I'm still in on this Bucs team. I'm the last one. I'm out. And it has nothing to do with that I like, Doc. I just think Giannis is that good, and I don't think the East is good. And I'm still just, I'm not officially closing the door on them in any capacity yet.

39:28They're not going to trade Giannis, so it's not happening. I am so frustrated with this team. I loved this team about five years ago and then slowly watched it deteriorate transaction after transaction, coaching change after coaching change. And here we are. Dude, one of the crazy stats of the year, though, is this is the best shooting team in the NBA, the Milwaukee Bucks. That's why I'm still in. Giannis and shooting is something. That is something, Bill. That's a good position to take. I just don't think this Ryan Rollins thing, and it's so frustrating. That used to be Drew Holiday or even Eric Bledsoe for crying out loud.

40:05They used to have better players next to Giannis. Chris Middleton, of course. Brooke Lopez. It's just sad to see the supporting cast. I'm as big of a Giannis guy as you'll find in the media. I love him. And it's just sad to see what they've surrounded him with. Well, they surrounded him with shooting. And Kuzma. The Kuzma trade is the one that killed him. Because he's untradeable. I know they had to save some luxury tax last year. But you'd have Middleton as an expiring this year. You'd actually have the flexibility to go get somebody. And they can't because Kuzma doesn't make enough money. Number 18, the Clippers, a team that I've seen in person a couple times recently.

40:4613 and 22 now. I was mailing my betting thread with Sal and House and Hench. I was mailing them Clippers division odds when they were 200 to one on FanDuel. And now they are 45 to one. And I still like it. I don't like anyone in that division, except for one team we're going to talk about later. But Harden's having, quietly, a really good offensive season again. He's like 25, 8, and 7 or something. And then Kawhi, until Jalen Brown came in on Saturday night. and punched him right in the mug. But Kawhi's looked athletically as good as I've seen him the entire time in the Clippers. They had Derek Jones come back, who then got hurt.

41:27But they feel like they figured out how to use John Collins finally. The first 15 games, it was like, why is this guy in the team? What is he? And now they've figured that part out. They had a nice win against the Warriors last night, but I'm not counting them out either because they have no incentive to not be good. They have to be good. Yeah, it's been a bad few weeks for OKC. We'll talk about that later. But we're always talking about one of the reasons why the Clippers are winning. And that's bad for their next year's draft status, the OKC Thunder, that is. Kawhi Leonard, I had one friend at the NBA tell me for a team say, this is the best he's played since Toronto.

42:08The stretch of games. I agree with that. He looks awesome. And I know your guys went in there and won that game. I mean, that was very impressive. We'll talk about that, I'm sure, in a minute. But Kawhi Leonard, if he's going to play like this, too, the Clippers are going to be good. And if Harden's going to play like this, the Clippers are going to be good. Those are big ifs, especially with Kawhi's availability. But yeah, just look at his numbers. He's scoring 30, 35, 40 on a routine basis. And maybe more important, he's playing his ass off on defense, Bill. Playing his ass off and very angry competitive.

42:45which is the scariest kawaii dude like when we had him in san antonio it was like when he would get like that in that memphis series i know we even take that for data series he would go to this place where it was just like an eighth grader playing against fourth graders and just mean be meaner than everybody and take the ball that's what we're seeing i don't know if it's sustainable but the clippers look better than the 13 and 22 record next to their name i agree so if you look at the win total on Fandle right now, they're over-under is 38.5. So they're 13 and 22. So that means they'd have to be a little bit over 500.

43:23The thing that interests me about them, they're under-pick, so they want to be good. They actually have some trade stuff. They have a lot of trade stuff. I think they're in play for a Davis trade, possibly. They could add up, Collins is 26.5 and expires after of the year. Zubats is at 18-1. Bogdanovich is expiring at 16. Lopez is expiring at 8.7, and Batum is expiring at 5.6. They could put together any type of trade. So they could go get a$40 million guy, 45, 50, whatever it is, and make a play on a distressed asset if they want it. I'm interested to see how that goes. I thought for sure they were going to make a play on Trey Young or one of these guys.

44:11I guess Trey would have made sense because you already have Harden, but just one of these distressed asset Max guys or close to Max. But what if they decided they were going to try to trade James Harden? What if they wanted to really go after it? I think that's something I heard around the league this week too, is like Harden might be in some of these conversations. I'm not reporting anything, but look, they have to look at it. I'll tell you this. it wouldn't surprise me after Saturday because the Celtics knocked him down once and we never heard from him again in that game. I think he's at the point of his career where you just have to hit him a couple times.

44:46Trade machine crew. I probably should have the Clippers in there. Number 17, Atlanta. The season's all over the map. The trade thing kind of burned out. Risa Shea has been really bad. I'm not giving up on him, but he's been bad. And them taking him over Castle, I think is getting really, really tough now. I thought Castle should have been first in the draft. That one's getting really hard now. If you're a Hawks fan, you just got to be like, I didn't even go further than that, Bill Simmons. I think if you look at the first three or four picks from that draft, you're starting to see Reed Shepard pop a little bit.

45:23That was another guy they were looking at. But they couldn't take him though. Sure they could have. You can't take him when you have Trey. Right. Well, they might not have Trey soon and they could have Reed Shepard. So, you know, take the best player. I agree with you. Yeah, so I think that draft class is starting to pop a little bit more than I expected, but not at that number one slot. And you're right about Richer Shea. And then Porzingis, which was their big summer trade, and he's still battling all his stuff. The weird thing about this team, other than them being 17 and 21, and I keep waiting for them to turn it around, it's just not happening.

45:58And yet I can't count them out. they're getting this incredible Alexander Walker season. He's averaging 20.5 points a game and is a crunch time guy for them sometimes and is guarding the other teams, like one of their best players. And it's just like, so they, A plus signing there, probably a D minus F plus for the Risa Shea pick. The Porzingis is an incomplete, but I just would have thought if that Alexander Walker move hit like that, how are you 17 and 21? they've had great obvious there's clearly a chemistry issue there right i mean the on-off numbers with trey say it all their defense is absolutely terrible as soon as it shouldn't be terrible they had well they have good defensive guys on the roster but it's terrible yeah there's clearly a chemistry thing and i think that's behind the scenes the reason why we saw the news from mark stein and yeah and then the previous report from shams about them working with the agents trying to trying to find a new place it's just clearly i think a chemistry thing and the other sneaky part of it is porzingis talk about big ifs like anthony davis when that guy's out there the hawks are good it's actually more of a porzingis thing than a tray thing i think for them going forward it's like can they get any kind of regularity from porzingis because they could flip this around if if they get off a tray young and porzingis is healthy the eastern conference is there to be had.

47:26Zach did an entire podcast about it yesterday. The Hawks, I am not giving up on them by any means. I intentionally didn't listen to Zach's podcast yesterday because I knew I was doing this today and I didn't want to be tainted with his opinions, with his Northeastern opinions. It was an excellent podcast. I'm sure I'm going to listen to it today. Golden State, 16. They're 19 and 18. Tough loss last night. They're getting an all-time Curry season. Curry's having his best year in three years. He's almost at five threes a game. I just think he's been really, really good. Doesn't have that, like, I'm getting super tired, I'm tired of carrying everybody kind of vibe yet, which I think we'll probably have in a month.

48:11What's interesting to me about them is they're 20th in offense. And so you think, like, oh, they got to get a center, they got to do this. It's like, they actually need scoring. You know, they're paying all this money for Jimmy Butler, who's 17 and 19 a game. Draymond can't score. They have all these other bench guys that you don't know whether you're getting. And that's why I thought Porter would be an interesting one for them. If you're them and you're looking at how do we possibly ever in the million years beat OKC or San Antonio in a series, which Kerr went out of his way to say how impossible that was.

48:44I disagree a little bit because they have Curry. I'm just going all in on offense. Yeah. I want to build a team that can outscore other teams and kind of do what the Celtics are doing. The Celtics are second in offense. It doesn't make a lot of sense, but they're getting 130, 140 points a game. I think they need to add scoring because you saw it last night. Curry fouled out. They had to run the last play for Butler. He ends up with a turnaround with Batum guarding him. It's an air ball. They don't have a second guy who can create a shot. So that's what I would do. What would you do? I mean, they have to throw bad money after bad money.

49:20I think continue to go after somebody like Giannis or Anthony Davis. I think that's what... Giannis is going to be too expensive, though. They can't do that. So maybe it's AD. But look, I just don't think there's a path for them to get back to that group. Stephen Curry, look at the on-off numbers. It's almost Jokic-like, the difference between the competence when Stephen is on the court on their offense versus just the sheer incompetence. as soon as he sits down, they turn into what would be the worst offense in the league. They brought in Jimmy Butler, Bill, in part to stem that. And it's just not working.

49:59Al Horford hasn't clicked the way they expected that to. When you say he hasn't clicked, I mean, there's other stuff we could say there. Well, you can say it. Well, I think it's over. Yeah. The one thing I've noticed with the Celtics, I was talking about, because I was glad I got to see them in person at the Clipper game. The difference of having Porzingis and Horford as two of the bigs that are playing a ton of minutes versus what they have now with Keita and Garza, who on paper are much worse players, right? And with no experience, make no sense. But are better for the Celtics offensively because they set these big bulky picks 25 feet from the basket, top of the key.

50:45and the two guards and Jalen and Simons, they all know how to use these guys. And these guys are just, they're really hard to get around and they create space and they roll, they know when to roll to the basket, their hands are up and they're just, it's just a better offense. And Horford who didn't rebound, I, by the way, I love Al Horford. He was, you know, I wish he hadn't left the team twice and I don't know why he left the team to go to a team that can't contend under the guise of contending. But he didn't rebound. He didn't get to the free throw line. He didn't play all the time. These guys now, they play every game.

51:20They're young. They bang bodies. They're physical. They can overpower teams. And the Celts are just in a better spot. So I look at Horford for what this Warriors team needs. This Warriors team needs rebounding. They need consistency. They need guys who can play every day. They need physicality. He doesn't give any of that stuff to them. No, their frontcourt has been bad. And it's just, you know, Draymond is what he is. He's not going to get you rebounds. He's a surprisingly great rim protector. He's going to facilitate offense. But they used to have Kevon Looney, you know. They used to have, I mean, going way back, Bogut, like, next to them.

51:57And now it's just that character's not there. And, of course, the Klay Thompson character's not there. And the non-stuff minutes are a disaster. And that's really, I mean. You have to have a second score. This is like even the Celtics. Simon's, it doesn't happen every game, but he'll come in and he can take over a quarter. Right. You know, he could get 13 and a half. It's just like a wild card variable on top of like the set stuff that they have every game. The Warriors don't even really have that. I don't even know like who their heat check guy is. Is it Will Richard? Like, who is it? Yeah, I don't know.

52:36Buddy healed occasionally. And then maybe. Yeah, they just, they don't know who it is. They never know game to game who they're going to get it from. They never know who the second scorer is. And Butler is just like, he's going to go six for 11 every game. And that's kind of who he is at this point, I guess. I want to live in a world where Stephen Curry is the second guy before he's done. I just want to live that he deserves like somebody else to sort of be out there on the back to backs. And he's resting and he doesn't have to do this. He's one of my favorite players of all time. and it's just sad.

53:06Well, that world, unfortunately, is going to be the 2020 Olympic team. 16 Miami, 20 and 16. We can skip them. If only because then their fans can go, oh, you skipped Miami, motherfucker. 14 Orlando, 20 and 16. Right. If I told you before the year, Anthony Black is going to make a leap and be a guy who could actually be an end of the game, you notice him guy. and Orlando's going to be 20 and 16. What would your reaction have been? Was there a bus crash? There was some nerd community stuff about AB last year, so I wouldn't have been totally shocked. Yeah. This is a disappointing 20 and 16, and to borrow a term from the sports guy himself, it feels like the Pistons have market-corrected the Orlando Magic's place in the Eastern Conference hierarchy.

54:04I feel like Detroit sort of came in and became that top team of young, scrappy, defensive-minded guys. But, you know, I was early on the what's going on with Paolo stuff and that got aggregated. You were first. I felt like you kind of started it. It's not always a great place to be, I'll tell you. And you know that better than anybody. But, yeah, Paolo's got to be more consistent. They still have a negative net rating when he's on the floor. Paolo has to be more consistent. He's shooting 26 % from three. He's shooting 45 % in a league where everybody's stats are way up. Like, my fear with him, and it's super early.

54:44They can't do anything this year. He's a poison pill guy. They can't trade him. My fear for him, though, is I don't want him to turn into one of those early 2000s forwards that we had. The Sharif, Juwan Howard, Antoine Jamison, Antoine. And these guys that they were in the low 20s with stats, you kind of felt like they weren't ever going to make a shot in the last minute of a game, but the teams really deferred to them and you're just kind of in no man's land with them. I think it's in a little bit of play now with him. As young as he is, it's just my fear. Yeah, the league, as we talked about earlier, the league is sort of moving on in a different, you know, it's just a smarter league.

55:23And like these kinds of inefficiencies, these habits, these inefficient habits or these inabilities on defense. For Paolo, it's a jump shooting problem. You can't take this many jumpers and be this bad at it and be a superstar. Those days are gone. There were times when you could do that. We're not doing that anymore. So he's got to get a better shot diet, pass it a little bit more. Or he's got to be a complimentary player. Right, that's what I'm saying. And he can do it. It's one or the other. And that's the most frustrating thing. And league history is full of these frustrating dudes. You know it better than me.

55:54Guys who could be playmakers but insisted on being that scorer, that's where it's headed right now. And I just want to see him sort of wake up to... He is a very well-rounded talent. If their season goes terribly, they will be maybe a top three most fascinating summer team. Yeah. Because they'll be able to trade him in the summer and maybe they'll just decide, let's cash this asset in. Another team would decide, oh my God, Palo's available and we're off. Number 13, we are now in the pleasant surprises category. Philadelphia at 19 and 15. 0.9 rating. I think they're 30 and 0 in clutch games. Yeah.

56:37I don't feel like I've ever seen them lose a clutch game until last night. Last night was ugly. Somehow Denver, Denver's G League team, smoked them in overtime. Listen, we've talked about them a bunch in the past on this pod. I still think Maxie's been a first-time All-NBA guy. I'm having trouble putting a ceiling on Vijay at this point. I don't really know what I'm watching anymore. Initially, I thought it was like early Dwayne Wade, but now I'm like, this just might be Dwayne Wade. He's great. Like, for real, this might be Dwayne Wade again. And then there are moments where you're like, is that not high enough of a ceiling?

57:16And I think Dwayne Wade is a top 30 guy. I'm not saying Vijay's going to get there. I'm just saying there's moments where you're like oh my god what was that he had some big threes last night in that loss but yeah it's just it feels to me like there's like this fun story in the back court and then sad story in the front court with this team and it goes to the cap sheet too it's like hey we're paying a lot of money for these sad dudes in the front court and then we're paying like we have cost control on these incredibly fun young guards with Max. But do you think Paul George has been that bad? Because I actually don't think he's been that bad in what I've seen.

57:54No, he's been fine. It's Davis, right? If he's out there, I'm happy. He's such a good defender still. He has such great instincts and he's such a veteran. But it's 18 games, Bill. He's played 18 games. Here we go again. Yeah, I haven't minded what I saw. I think the most important thing that's happened with them, I don't know what happens with Embiid. I mean, history will tell you where we know what's going to happen. But the most important thing that's happened is that it's Maxie's team at the end of these games now. Like yesterday, when they actually needed a basket in regulation OT, everyone else goes to the side and Maxie tries to figure out what they're going to do.

58:31And I never thought Embiid would, you know, as long as he was on the court, I always felt like they would be trapped by this Embiid thing. And I don't think they are anymore. I think they kind of know, like, this is now Maxie's team, everybody gets it. So even just accomplishing that is huge, I think. Yeah, I agree. And like, he's the face of the team. If you look at the early returns in all-star voting, he's near the top. He's a superstar in the making. And then to your point about Vijay, it's like, that's good. Like I said about Cooper earlier, it's like there's two kinds of teams. Those who have a clear future direction and those who don't.

59:04And like, the Sixers have two of the best young guards in the NBA. And that's a great place to be. The Joel Embiid situation, like he made some terrible plays down the stretch in that Denver loss, which was one of the more shocking results of recent NBA. Like, just the... Who was the best player on that Nuggets team last night? Pickett, I think. Bruce Brown and Pickett. Yeah. It was a fascinating game. I watched the whole second half, and I'm like, what's going on here? Just kept waiting for Denver to die because I'm rooting against Philly, obviously from a Celtics standpoint. But listen, whatever happens, the fans love these two guys, and everything else will shake out.

59:44They're fine. Number 12, Toronto. 22 and 15. There were a couple points last week. I felt like the season was going to tilt on them and go the other way. And they pulled out one game and then all of a sudden they seemed fine. I'm still, to me, they feel like a regular season team to me because of the bench, which in the playoffs, I just think is way harder to be sustainable. But over the course of 82 games, when you have four or five guys that can come in and swing a quarter, it's a little better. but they've definitely been a little better than I thought. I'm still dubious. That's a great step forward for them.

1:00:22Great step forward for them. Not as dubious as I am of this next team. We're now in the Enigmas category, number 11. The Lakers, 22 and 11 with a minus 0.2 rating. And they just, like the Memphis game the other day, Memphis is taking it to them in the second quarter. They're up like 15 and Coward, who's killing them, gets hurt. Right. And then the Lakers turn that. I feel like they've had five of those this year. I'm just going to say this is not a 22 and 11 team. I don't think they think they're a 22 and 11 team. JJ seems like he's ready to start drinking on the sidelines during these games. The vibes are just very strange.

1:01:03Yeah, they have. I'm looking at their last 15 games. I mean, they have won over their expected statistical profile all year long. Like, over the last 15 games, they're 8-7. That's pretty good. But their net rating is negative 5. And they have the worst defense in the Western Conference outside of Utah in that time period. Like, they are—I don't know how they're doing it. Obviously, when they win, they have some great offensive weapons to credit. but dude when you see the defensive numbers of the los angeles lakers um this screams lottery to me i mean when you're down there on defense it's very hard to even make the playoffs they they are maybe the best shooting team in the nba and they get to the free throw line uh more than anybody but even with those two incredible things i just said they're 500 They model like a 500 team, and somehow, to your earlier point, they're 22-11.

1:02:05Their last 15 games, they're minus 4.9 offensive rating, which is fifth worst in the league. The teams behind them are Sacramento, Indiana, Utah, and Washington. Yeah. Think about that. New Orleans has a better net rating with them. Defensively, they are 29th in the last 15 games. like this is like you're losing any playoff round you play with how bad they are on defense and they don't seem really happy either so there you go number 10 Cleveland it's like we've talked about them every week on the pod I just want to see all their guys playing together for three weeks before I figure out what and that includes the roll guys let me just see the healthy calves for three weeks before I decide three games over 500 is stunning to me though plus 2.4 rating Okay, number nine, the maybe sleeper, the Phoenix Suns, the 21-15, 1.7 net rating, over and over again winning these close games, or coming close to winning these close games, or just being in close games.

1:03:13They've been one of the league past MVPs of the year. They feel like they have, even though his stats are basically the same as last year. They brought back Booker. where he's in. He's bought into everything they're doing. That was great considering they reinvested in him. The Dylan Brooks thing's been really fun. They got two games from Jalen Green all year. Not sure that matters. How fluky is this team? Not fluky. I think they're the Jacksonville Jaguars of the current NBA season. I don't think any of us saw this coming. They have a new coach, a new identity, I think Dylan Brooks deserves more credit than any person on the roster for sort of changing the brand of this team that you and I watched together last year in Austin that looked like they hated one another.

1:04:06They looked like they didn't like their coach. And some people at ESPN, our friends over there, said this is the worst predicament of any team in the league by far. It probably was. And I'm not roasting those people. I'm just saying, like, that's what people were saying around the NBA. And here they are. It's one of the best stories in the league in a year where there's some great stories. You know, Gillespie has been great. Goodwin is great. Jordan Ott has brought this offensive rebound. You mean Goodwin, the guy the Lakers waved? Dude, you could make a pretty good team out of. To keep Ronnie James and Dalton Connect?

1:04:39They waved Jordan Goodwin. Zubach is on that team. A team that can't guard anybody. That's unbelievable. Julius Randle. Oh, my Lord. Yeah, the former Laker All-Stars. Oso, big leap for him. He closed games. But I'll say, you know, I watched their game pretty closely at the end last night. Tough back-to-back. By the way, we should mention, they beat OKC. And that was another sort of like, oh, this is not fluky. Then they go to Houston on a back-to-back bill. And that's what you would call an either-or game in the NBA. Durant hits one of the best shots of his entire career in the regular season just to end that game.

1:05:16Awesome moment for him. Awesome moment for the Rockets. but from a Phoenix perspective, you had to be pretty good. That's a tough back-to-back and you beat the Thunder and then hang with the Rockets till the very end. So, I mean, I think it's all about Ott and Dylan Brooks, but you're right, Booker is the leader of this team. And now, the last thing I'll say, how did that game end? Everybody knows they need to get the ball to Booker. The secondary offensive option there, Dylan Brooks, that doesn't really scare anybody in those kinds of moments. So going forward, I think they need one more threat on offense beyond Booker to get to that next level of Western Conference.

1:05:55They might have it. It might be Jalen Green. Yeah, that's fair. Let's see it. I watch them. I see a lot of the same stuff. I think it's the most stunning thing of the year. I was under on them for 31 and a half games. They're exceptionally well coached. Right. He's awesome. Every game, everybody seems like they know. where it's same thing with the Celtics. They know where they should be, what their role is. They're bought in. Everybody gives a shit, which is another thing I talked about a couple of weeks ago with, I think with legs about the secret to the Celtics success this year is every single guy in the team has something to prove.

1:06:34I think you could say the same for Phoenix. So you go down the line, every single guy has something to prove. Brooks is mad. They traded him. Gillespie wants to show he's a player. Mark Williams got traded to the Lakers. they pulled out of the trade. He's in fuck you mode. Charlotte trades him. But you go on down the line and all these guys are bought in and have something to prove, which, you know, during a regular season matters. But, you know, the fact that they can defend with guys that are just fringe guys that a lot of teams could have had. But the Booker piece is the main piece to me. Like they have somebody at the end of these games.

1:07:08The same thing the Celtics had with Jalen. They have somebody that can go toe-to-toe with whoever the other guy's best player is. Philly has that with Maxie. You have to have one of those guys now because you get into these four minutes left situations and if you don't have the guy to match baskets, you're going to lose. Yeah, and it's almost like this mystical thing. The year over year vibe differential is one of the greatest I've ever seen, if not the greatest. I can't think of another one where it just went from so toxic to the exact opposite of toxic. Like you're saying, that defensive identity, the rebounding, that cohesion, that give a shitness.

1:07:45And you got to look at Jordan Ott, Brian Gregory that sort of reinvented the front office, but then Dylan Brooks on the floor, as I mentioned, just talk about a give a shit guy, like every second, every game, maybe too much, but it's contagious and I just love their identity. Yeah, and the Celtics have a bunch of those guys too and I don't think it's an accident to compare those two teams. You have guys that shouldn't feel like they're as good as everyone on the other team, but they do. Like if the Celtics play OKC, they're going to think they should beat OKC. Does that make sense on paper? No.

1:08:17Phoenix beats OKC two nights ago. It makes no sense on paper. I just like where they're at. We're moving into the contenders now, number eight, New York, which is the flip side of this, where New York looks like they're already tired of each other after they won the NBA Cup. It's like, that wasn't the title, guys. That was the cup. I mean, I won't be the first person to make this point or the last. It really feels like there's some hardcore evidence now that you don't want to be in the semifinals of the NBA cup. If you care about the season, you're better off just getting out of there. This is ruined every team, every year that's been in there.

1:08:50Well, the second place finisher in the NBA cup is often, it's often the, the, the stepping stone is finishing second. Yeah. Not, not winning though. It's bad. It's true. Uh, and I know you probably know this or have it at your fingertips, but I think there's still the favorites to win the Eastern conference, right? They are. I wouldn't bet on them, though. When I look at the West and the East, I would take OKC versus the field still in the West. And I know we have to address some stuff going on with the Thunder. But I'm certainly taking the field over the Knicks in the East, particularly the Pistons, who I think are a superior team.

1:09:28Exhibit A last night on the basketball court. But also your team, which I don't know if you're doing the reverse jinx. I think that's the best story in the NBA right now ahead of the Suns. And I think the Celtics are going to be a real threat. And wouldn't it be so great for Celtics fans to see that Knicks team again in the playoffs? Oh, man. And get in that. MSG. Yeah. Like, it would be a great thing. But from the Knicks perspective, dude, the defense isn't good enough right now. The defense isn't good enough right now. You can pick on Towns. You can pick on Bronson. And you compare that to what's going on in Detroit, where they just have the best defense in the conference.

1:10:09If they're not shooting the lights out, and when I saw them beat San Antonio, that core group of five guys is one of the best offensive groups that you can have on the court. The problem's on the other end. And is that really a championship level defense? For me, I'm sorry. I think the answer is no. Multiple guys to pick up. Right. Point of attack and rim protect. You know, Mitchell Robinson changes the geometry for them. But point of attack, just like the Lakers, we can pick on you there and you don't protect the rim particularly well. What are you doing good on defense? I feel like I ask this question every three weeks, but would you think about Davis for Towns?

1:10:52They love the Kentucky guys. That's an interesting one. I don't think so. A couple weeks ago, the answer was no, because Towns was having a good year and Davis hadn't proven he could even stay on the court. Now, I think it's a little more reasonable. What about the honest stuff? Do you think that's in play for them? I just don't think it's conceivable this season. Yeah. I just don't think it works from a trade machine standpoint. You would take the field over the next in the Eastern Conference? I would take, if you just gave me New York on one end and Detroit, Boston, Cleveland on the other end, I would take Detroit, Boston, Cleveland.

1:11:36Yeah. I think it's more realistic. One of those three teams win from what we've seen the last two weeks. Yeah. We're aligned. I mean, by the way, we should say the Knicks have a four game losing streak at the exact time. The Celtics have surged. The big, the bigger issue for me with them is there's two teams in the East that I think are just bad matchups for them. Detroit and Boston. Yeah. Boston has all these dudes to throw at Brunson. And when Tatum, I don't know what happens when Tatum comes back, how many minutes he's going to have. But I just, I think they like the matchup against the Knicks.

1:12:08And then Detroit is kind of built to beat the Knicks. You know, and they have a million guys to throw at them. They're tougher than the Knicks frontcourt. And that's just going to come down to how good is Mitchell Robinson going to be in that series, I think, if it's Knicks-Pistons. And we saw it last year, I think. We saw it last year, he swung the series. New York is as good as they were last year, but Detroit is much better. And Detroit almost took them out last year, arguably could have without a bad call. Duren's at a different guy, yeah. I'd be a little worried if I'm the Knicks, but we've learned over the years, don't get to anything one way or the other when it's game 36.

1:12:43I don't think it's a good sign where they look now. I can see them turning it around, but you made the key point. They have two guys on defense you can just pick on. Number seven, Minnesota. 23 and 13. I'd still continue to think they're underrated because how good Ian is and they know who they are and I'm sure they'll figure out some sort of point guard, some way to make that a little better. The only point I had on this team was I think Randall and DiVincenzo for Towns was just a great trade. It's interesting to have a trade that was that big that a year plus later, I feel like both teams would still do it.

1:13:18Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, that's a good point. Where it's like, they would just, no hesitation, still say yes, which usually you have a trade and then a year later it's like, eh. Like, the Warriors with Jimmy Butler, I know they didn't give up that much, but would they, are they as excited about that trade? Seven months later is probably not, right? You go through and most teams are like, ah, I don't know. Celtics number six, we've talked about, I've talked about them too much on the pod, but I just think, I said to Sal on Sunday, this thing with Tatum coming back whenever he comes back, trying to fit into how different the team is now.

1:13:58And how different they play. And how much runs through Jalen and the two guards. They don't walk it up. They're always trying to make decisive moves. There's a lot of movement. And Pritchard and White and then Simons, when he comes in, have the ball a lot. And this was a team that was very Tatum dependent, walking it up, trying to decide people standing around. And I just don't think that's the team anymore. And the two bigs, the way that they're, as I mentioned earlier, are able to screen for the guys 20 feet from the basket. Like, he's never really had that before. So, on paper, you're like, just replace Shireman and some Hauser and some Minot and replace some Minutes and just put Jason Tatum in there.

1:14:38They're going to be better. But, you know, I need to see it. Well, we've seen it. Like, some stunning stats. Like, the way I look at the game. In the last 15 games, they have the best record in the NBA. They have the best net rating in the NBA. They have the best offense in the NBA. And they have some really good wins. They've gone toe-to-toe with almost all the good teams at this point. Yeah, they do, and they look good. And that's what I'm saying. The way I look at the game, it's like, why am I supposed to think that New York is better than this team? Certainly recently they haven't been. And then the most compelling player in the next four months in the NBA is Jason Tatum.

1:15:22Like, I just told you the record over the last 15 games. The foundation is so much better than any of us thought it was five months ago. I'm so impressed with the depth of the Boston Celtics, the next man up thing, the Spanish rookies they're finding, Keita's ability to be so much more energetic, Missoula's ability to reimagine the offense around Jalen Brown in a high usage role. And Derek White, who's not shooting it particularly well, but doing everything else perfectly. Dude, like if you're getting your first team all NBA guy back on top of this, it becomes the most interesting story in the second half of the NBA season.

1:16:05Yeah, it's funny. I look at it. I really miss his rebounding and his defense. I thought he was a great rebounder, especially when you go against some of these teams that are bigger. I think he was like 11th in rebounding last year. It's the most underrated part of his game. He's a massive. He was 10 rebounds a game. And in playoffs, that goes up to 12. So I think like just getting the rebound and the defense and how smart of a kind of just fit into the whatever's happening player he is, just getting that, we don't need him to score 30 a game on this team anymore. He needs to fit in with the other stuff, but he's Jason Tatum.

1:16:38He was third in the MVP last year. And we've never really seen a situation like this. There's also Jalen went up a level. And I think from running an offense through a team. Yeah. I mean, I'm sorry, running an offense through a guy. Jalen's as good as Tatum is right now with running an offense through him. The way he's able to use his teammates and the shots that he's able to get. He's moved to the same level as Tatum. So it's a good problem to have, but it is a problem. And it's another look. It's like when the Spurs could win with Timmy on the post and then run Manu off the bench and he's slashing and they're playing like a different game.

1:17:16This whole like Spanish pick and roll stuff they have going on with JB, it is another sort of look that their offense is completely different. And then when Tatum comes back, they can throw different looks. It's almost like having different pitchers to throw at a batter. Well, one thing I was thinking was when they do the five out, which they've done a lot more of this year and they have, it'll be like Hauser and somebody else in the corner, Simon's in the corner, whoever, with Jalen kind of running it. And then maybe a guy coming up or, but just him as the focal point, trying to either find people or shoot a two.

1:17:53You put Tatum in the corner now, which they never really did last year. It was always like kind of, Jalen would be the one that was always in the corner. You moved Tatum as a supporting guy playing off Jalen. We never really saw that enough. Even in the finals, when they were kind of doing the dueling banjos thing, they didn't have the five out the way it works now, I don't think. To your earlier point, imagine Jason as that crashing rebounder coming off the weak side when Jalen's running this current action. He is such a downer. He's never got to do that. Or could Jalen send him picks? Could he send him the Garza-type picks?

1:18:30I don't even know if he'd be good at that. We never saw it. The key is they need to get him back, if he's going to come back, beginning of March, I think, to see it kind of work for two months, ease him back, play him 15, 16 minutes a game, and just make it additive. Don't make it seem like, all right, you're back. You're Jason Tatum again. Like, I don't think they can do that. I don't think they will. I have two questions for you that I'm sure your audience wants to hear you answer about the Boston Celtic. The first one is, what are the streets talking about with Jason, the timetable with this thing?

1:19:03It's always been all-star break March range. and I think they're rightfully super hesitant about it. I think the thing that's changed, it was funny watching him at the Clipper game on Saturday. He goes to all the games. He's part of the team. He's coming back. Like, there's no question. I think what was interesting was they were going to be in a position a little like Indiana right now. That was the worst case scenario this season. Yeah. Well, what happens if we're 10 and 29 and he's ready to come back and you kind of have to be like, no, dude, hold off. That's completely flipped. Now it's like this team's an actual contender.

1:19:42So of course he's coming back. And what would be the point of him not coming back? If he's ready to play, it's a 10-month injury. Why would he want to wait till October to play basketball again? He's in his 20s, you know? So he's coming back. Well, that's my second question then. If this guy comes back and he's 85 % of Jason Tatum, do they immediately become the favorites to win the Eastern Conference? or is it like a Jordan and number 45 Jersey era? Like it's going to take them. I don't think they're the favorites. I think we've seen this too many times with guys coming back. And the most famous one, somebody sent me an email about this.

1:20:18I apologize. I can't remember the person, but about the 04 Kings with, it became Paige's team because Chris Webber was hurt. And the Kings fans were like, oh, and Chris Webber, as soon as he comes back, this is going to be awesome. And then Chris Webber came back and it screwed them up. Now, Chris Weber was broken down at that point of his career for the most part. I think that was the difference. Tatum's not going to be broken down. He's going to be healthy. But, you know, it's not perfect. There's been scenarios where guys have come back and it hasn't gone the way people thought. Well, let me say it for you because I made Zach say the Spurs were in pristine shape the day after Christmas.

1:21:00And I'll say it for you. I think the Boston Celtics are in a very, very strong position if they get 80 % of Jason Tatum in March. The one thing that I think is unquestionably changed is they were definitely going to try to get under the first apron and completely reset everything and try to figure out how to trade Simons and do those trades like Simons for Malik Monk. And you save six million and you pay somebody to take Tillman, that kind of stuff. They're not thinking that way anymore. And Simon's been doing six man of the year. He's in the running now. Right. When Simon's is like 14 points a game and he's comes in, he's getting more and more comfortable each.

1:21:38So I don't, I think the saving money thing's gone. And they have a new owner who hasn't ever rooted for a good team before Chisholm, who everybody speaks highly of. It's not like he's going to be going. Yeah. Yeah. No. Can we just cut another 6 million? Like this guy's like, holy shit, we're good. I thought I bought 11. number five Detroit 27-9 we talked about them it'd be interesting the big thing for them is give it a year or go for it Houston number four 22-11 a little bit in the same issue of they could get wacky and just do like Fred VanVleet and a contract and some of their picks and just say fuck it and try to get Trey or John Moran or one of these dudes but I don't think they will I think they'll I think though.

1:22:25I think they're good. They're good. They won that tough game last night. This is kind of where I thought they would be overall, but I've been shocked at how competent their offense has been without Fred VanVleet. But the offensive rebounding, the historic stuff it bears mentioning, it's like they're just punishing people. I know Shen Goon's missing some time, but Steven Adams is still just the most dominant offensive rebounder in the league. It gives them an identity. And like you said, what did they lack last year, Bill? The guy who could make the exact shot that Kevin Durant made last night.

1:23:00I do my all-NBA three teams every week just to update it. So I have it in my head. And I think Durant's played his way into the third team. I think there's two rockets that you would have to put in the top 50 now. And I think Booker's on there too, would be the other guy. Thompson looked electric last night too. Thompson's on the bubble. Thompson's another one where it's like, oh man, you might have to throw the stats out with him. Number three, San Antonio.

1:23:29I mean, we've talked about them on the ringer all over the place the last couple of weeks. We'll see. Am I getting Wemby healthy in April, May, and June? And there's no way to know. No way to know. But I just want to see him play for three straight months, please. The biggest development there is, even if he's not there, they're a good team, which is crazy. I was out on the Spurs for a playoff spot this year in large part because I didn't believe without Wemby they could walk and chew gum at the same time. They've done more than that. Fox has fit in, and then the young guards, Castle has made the leap.

1:24:06Dylan Harper, I don't know which of these two guards I like more. I go back and forth. I love them. And then Harrison Barnes, Champagny, Keldon Johnson. this and Luke Cornett this is just Cornett signing was great it was great and Harrison Barnes he's the Celtic we miss the most out of all the guys that left well do you do you think the Celtics should get in the market for a Gafford or another big like if I think they're going to compete this year that front court as good as Kate has been Garza it's a nice story do you want to bolster that front court a little bit I think there's buyout potential with somebody, I don't, I'd be really surprised that they did a trade.

1:24:47Yeah. I don't, sometimes when it's going really, I think Phoenix is probably in the same boat, when you have something really special going on with a group of guys that just like playing basketball with each other, I don't want to fuck with it. You saw Cleveland do it last year when they were playing great, and then they did that Hunter trade, and they've kind of never been the same since. It's not his fault, but it messed with their chemistry. Yeah, Jerome was a big part of their vibe. One thing I'll say about San Antonio because I did a lot of research on them and I was trying to figure out if I'd want to make a move or not if I was them.

1:25:19Kelton Johnson's like the kid. There was a huge piece about him last week. Kelton Johnson's like the emotional fulcrum of their team. They love him. Like he's, he's like the guy in that team. And it's like, if you're making a big trade for somebody with them, him and Barnes have to be in it. And I think those are two huge locker room guys for them. I don't see them doing anything. Kelton was like this neither here nor there guy for a few years and it's an incredible sort of teaching lesson because what happened Bill was like they just got deeper he slid down a notch or two in the rotation and then became like the energy guy and one of the best sort of energetic off the bench rebounders in the league and just this I'm going to be Mr.

1:26:00Effort like peak Kenneth Farid and it brings the arena just loves him I don't think you could move him they're another team that I just don't think you mess with this chemistry right now Couldn't agree more unless Trey Murphy became available. And then you have to really probably think about it at that point. Denver, number two, 24 and 12. And everyone on the team is hurt. And the only thing to really say about this is, hey, I miss Jokic, but just miss him. Yeah. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like the weatherman, the sports guy and anchorman. I just miss, I miss your scent, Mr. Musk. Maybe you and Ashley had an apartment together.

1:26:40I just miss Jokic I just miss him there's like a five year subgenre of the Simmons podcast where you talk about Embiid playing Jokic and Embiid ducking the smoke and we missed that last night that would have happened last night I know we missed him but dude there's a quirky chance here that this Denver team with all these injuries stumbles into some depth for the long term they're getting reps for dudes that wouldn't be playing otherwise. Pickett's like the one that, man, I've always loved that guy and he's such a sort of a five-tool player and I'd love to see him find his way more into the rotation.

1:27:19Maybe like last night, he was excellent in that win. But this is still the best offense in the league. Did you see they're averaging almost 100 or before Jokic got hurt, it was almost 125 points a game? Just 125 points a game. I didn't see that. That's why with some of these stats, I almost feel like we're heading toward where baseball hit in the mid-90s when the baseball stats, for different reasons, started to become crazy. And you almost couldn't compare errors anymore. It's like, how am I going to compare this to something in 1977? I feel if you actually go, like you just go in basketball reference or wherever, and you just look at the points per game, all the guys, and all the guys averaging like 22 points a game are shooting 40 % per three.

1:28:07It's like fucking bonkers. It's like 60 guys. It feels like. Dude, the one that I had in my notes, I'll go back to it just because it makes this point. Like Khan Knipple is hitting 44 % of his threes on over eight per game. Like that's one of the best three-point shooting seasons ever. He's a rookie, but it's like there's so much shooting talent now. This office efficiency is through the roof. And you're right. Like it's inflated some of the numbers like Balco did back in the day. It really feels that way. Like, Shaden Sharp is averaging 21.6 points a game. Right. Josh Giddey is averaging 19.9 to 9 on a Bulls team nobody cares about.

1:28:48It's just really hard to figure all this stuff out. So we agree on Denver. I think the only thing for them is if they fall past, they can fall past four. They can't fall on the 7, 8, 9, 10. I think they need to 6th has to be the basement for them if Jokic is actually out for a while whatever they don't care if they don't have home game 7's they don't care about that shit anymore they're so much better than they were last year if they're whole Jamal Murray looks better they have a deeper group Brown is getting a little bit better I think the coaching staff's in a better spot and they brought the thunder to the brink last year so nobody wants to see them in the playoffs, if they end up at seven or eight or whatever, dude, like.

1:29:37Well, let's end on the Thunder because we said this is going to be an hour, almost at an hour and a half. Thunder, 30 and seven, four and four in their last eight, 13.3 net rating still, which is still number one. I have my theory for, I don't want to say what's wrong, but what's maybe a mildly alarming. What's your theory? dude i think the nba changed on december 12th or 13th when the first spurs win happened in vegas i think that changed the temperature in the western conference a week later bill this is sort of the canonical moment of the season finch who hates the thunder has publicly said he hates how the thunder play goes into that game in minnesota and he's ready to explode and sure enough, he gets a chance, he gets ejected.

1:30:29And the Thunder are six and six in their last 12. But I looked at the numbers and the craziest thing I found is that Shea Gill's Alexander, since that Spurs game, he's gone from the fifth most fouled player in the NBA to the 31st most fouled player in the NBA. His free throws are way down. His ability to draw fouls has magically decreased substantially since peaking before then. And J-Dub is the other thing. He has not clicked in with this group the way they expected. She was in my notes. So between SGA sort of reduced free throw line activity and J-Dub's lack of sort of cohesion with this group, simply put, this isn't the juggernaut that I thought they were December 10th.

1:31:19This is not the juggernaut that was, what, 24-1? And I think it's good for the league. I still think they're the favorite. Don't get mad at me, Thunder fans. But I think this is just like they've come back to earth a little bit. I still have them as the favorite. I think Jalen Williams, I'm betting on him to come back and be fine. But he has not looked the same, and he should have gotten better, not worse this season. I had him as like the 13th best player coming into this season. Now you wouldn't have him top 25, most impactful from what we've seen. The fear if you're a Thunder fan is, although you did win the title, so there's not that much fear.

1:31:55And you have a million draft picks, and you have the best foundation of any of the league. The fear would be that 24 and one start, was that a little like when Phoenix started really well that year after they made the finals? And then they kind of peaked in December. Or the Warriors when they had the 25-game winning streak to start season. They win 73, but then they don't win the finals. Here's what I'm looking at. I think it's as simple as this. When they don't make threes, they're pretty beatable now. I went back and I looked through their six losses, four of which I watched. The three San Antonio games, two of them, they were 24 % from three and 25 % from three.

1:32:37And the third one, they gave up 130. Spurs made everything, right? Minnesota game, 28 % from three. The Phoenix loss, a couple nights ago, 31 % from three and they got out rebounded by 20. And then Charlotte last night, 28 % by three, got out rebounded by 19. My question, big picture with Dort, who last year was 41 % from three and is now at 33. Caruso was 35 last year is now at 30. My big question is, is the league becoming better enough offensively that you can't get away with as much Dort and Caruso as they were able to get away with last year. That you actually need a little more, even though their offense is, it's up there, it's in, I think it's probably in the top eight.

1:33:21But just in some of these games, is that why this is not going to be a team that wins 74 games? Because their offense is not reliable enough. Yeah, last night, I mean, the most head-scratching result of the year, in my opinion, they lose at home to the Hornets, and it was, again, They get killed. They could not make their perimeter shots. They lose confidence. The announcers are saying shit like, Like, oh, there's a lid on the rim. They just can't get it. And it's like, yeah, that's it. And if you look at the numbers, they have the 20s. Yeah, but it's worse than that, though, because it's like this guy's open for a reason threes that they're missing.

1:33:53Caruso, nobody's guarding him anymore. Right. That's a real issue for them. Anyway, I interrupted you. No, no, that's right. And I remember noticing the Spurs really doing that. Caruso beat us. And I think he was like 0 for 12 or 1 for 13. He finally made one in garbage time or something. But that is something to watch because the offense bill in this 12 game, I'm not going to call it a total slump, but by their standards, it's a slump is 22nd in the NBA over the last 12 games. We haven't seen them down there and any, you can't slice the pie any, anywhere last season and find a stretch like that.

1:34:26And the rebounding is a little bit of a concern. And Hartenstein's out, and that's a big part of it. But I do think, to your point, if there's a crack in the foundation, it's on the offensive end of the court, specifically beyond the three-point arc. I think when you have guys who you used to rely on in a real way who are now not being guarded, it's a red flag. Like the Celtics played the Clippers Saturday night, the game I went to. And they were like, John Collins, Chris Dunn, Batum, knock yourself out. You're going to be alone in the corner. And if you make them, God bless you. And Collins made a bunch in the first half.

1:35:04They were like, we're going to stop Kawhi. We're going to give you this shot. Take it. And teams are doing that now with OKC. And then when they play San Antonio, who has Plastic Man in the middle, taking away Shea's mid-range game, and they're not guarding Caruso, when you don't have that second guy out there who's supposed to be Jalen Williams, that's where they become a little more beatable. I'm surprised though. I really thought, I thought they were such a juggernaut and so in tune with who they were. I really thought it was going to be like hard to believe when anybody beats them. And now I'm like, not surprised.

1:35:42Now you're made to keep Boye Hartenstein's been out. It does hurt them from a rebound. But I do think Presti will maybe tinker with this team a little bit. And I wonder whether it's like, Like, could Dort be the guy or Caruso? Do you trade one of those guys, move Kaysan Wallace into that role, play Mitchell more and try to use a Dort contract and a pick and try to get somebody really good to add? I don't know. It's just crazy how fast things change. I remember when I was talking about the 24-1 Thunder and how great they were, I was on with Zach. And I said, hey, a year ago at this time, the Celtics were clear favorites to win the NBA championship that ended up being the Thunders.

1:36:22It happens really fast. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but just as a fan of the NBA, it's a lot more interesting when there isn't this absolute buzzsaw destroying everybody at the top of the league and we can start to see a path for Denver or San Antonio or Houston to at least give these guys a seven-gamer. Dorts, yeah, somehow. Dorts was born in 1999, which I don't fully understand. It feels like he's like 35. It's Canadian years. Caruso is 32, though. Yeah. So, you know, if you're going to decide we need more offense from one of those two guys, it's upgrade time. That would be the spot.

1:37:00I think it's too early for them to panic, though. I'm not panicking if I'm them. Yes, that's what I would like to end on as well. They deserve to be the favorites. They are still a pretty big juggernaut in this league. But there's a blueprint a little bit now. Fucking rebound. Right. And as dumb as this sounds, try to outscore them and leave Caruso alone. And maybe he'll go 0 for 9, 0 for 10, 1 for 10. And that's, I guess, the blueprint. I still feel like Jalen, I believe in Jalen Williams. I think the way this gets fixed is he goes up a level because we know he has it in him. And has there been an adjustment to the foul baiting stuff?

1:37:40Or is that a byproduct of something else? That's a good point. Like, I got to look at the numbers. I don't know if it's an officiating thing or people are figuring out how to defend him. but that's another thing to watch. I can't figure out fucking James Harden still. He got five calls in the game I went to Saturday night. We're like, oh my God, you guys are still falling for this? James Harden just sees four people in the paint and drives toward them like he's Derrick Henry trying to get a first down. He says, I'm just going to flail my... The giant beard gets tilted up into the sky and the refs are just, they have no choice but to blow the whistle at that point.

1:38:14I'm sure he's a nice guy. I just can't watch him anymore. Like I hate watching him in person. I just hate it. He's my least favorite player to watch because I've just 15 years of watching him just try to get fouls. I just don't enjoy watching it. I don't like it either. I don't like it. I just don't like watching it. Anyway, Kurt Goldsberry, a pleasure as always. Say hi to everybody in Texas. Thank you, Bill. All right, we're taping this on a Monday afternoon. We just did a rewatchables mailbag. Craig Horlbeck, Chris Ryan. All three of us have teams in the NFL tournament, as Mike Vrabel calls it.

1:38:48Did you hear that? He keeps calling it the tournament. Why? It's like, well, now that we got the tournament, it's win or go home. I don't know. It's just a Mike Rabel thing. Okay. This is a how we feel about our teams check. Craig Horvath, giant Steelers fan. Now giant Aaron Rodgers fan. Make the case. I have been all year. I'm tickled to be in the playoffs with him. What a fantastic close to the season. I think he's been underratedly great this entire year. And all the off-field stuff and people not liking Aaron Rodgers anymore has colored the fact that he's been fucking great this year. You're going with great?

1:39:19Yes. For a 42-year-old coming off an Achilles, I think he's been very, very good. So you were talking on Fantasy last night about that Ravens game. And I really liked what you were saying because I noticed it too. The way he was essentially like building a castle out of sand every snap. Yes. Where he's like calling out his protections. He's got three guys off the street playing wide receiver. His helmet wasn't working. Yeah. Couldn't even talk to Arthur Smith. And he's drawing routes on his hand to pro bowlers from 2017. Yeah. The fact that he won that game with Adam Thielen, Marquez Valdez-Scantling and Scotty Miller is incredible.

1:39:56It is a kind of weird like what if of the last four years or whatever it's been where like if he had just landed in a better situation than New York. Like I wonder what the last couple of years of his playing career specifically would have been like. I also think he just played it right this year. He's been incredibly complimentary of Mike Tomlin, of the city of Pittsburgh, the fans, why he wanted to be with this organization, the leadership, But it seems like since he's been in the league, players like him. Whether or not fans do, players seem to really like him. When they played the Jets, like Brees Hall is still tweeting about Aaron Rodgers.

1:40:30I'm on board. I want him back for next year. Want him back? Yeah. What else are we going to do? I was just looking at his stats. He threw for over 3 ,300 yards, 24 TDs, seven picks. He played every game. Yesterday was his masterpiece, though, because I couldn't believe how bad his receivers were and they were talking about it during the game. He just wants people that knows what he can do with the line of scrimmage and basically smart people who weren't good at football anymore. There was one point where he had Thielen. He would tell Thielen what to tell the other wide receiver. And I was like, this is wild, man.

1:41:05It kind of helped that the Ravens had no pass rush and then Kyle Hamilton collided with another guy on the team at the perfect time in the game. I don't know if... you know, or maybe it was karma for not having Metcalf because Metcalf was a complete game changer for them. He was like four free plays a game that they could just get something out of. Both of their horses, Metcalf and Darnell Washington, not in this game. And it was a huge deal. Like now I feel, honestly, the Texans, I think for the Steelers are one of the better matchups they could have gotten. Like that's another, obviously the defense is great, but like I don't trust CJ Stroud.

1:41:38I think this game's going to be in Pittsburgh on Monday night. I think this is like a solid matchup for the Steelers. It's going to be a really good game. I also think, like, the extra... I mean, there's games on Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. Rodgers getting the extra day or two. Yeah. I think is a big deal. TJ Watt getting the extra day or two, I think, is a big deal. And the Steelers have that ridiculous home record on Monday night. They haven't lost since 1991 at home on Monday night. Really? Yeah. They also haven't won a playoff game since 2016. Well, there's also the voodoo that they've had all year.

1:42:06Yesterday was probably the peak of it. Oh, maybe the five turnover game with the Pats was pretty good, too. I mean, I was on record like six weeks ago saying they should fire Mike Tomlin. So this team is... So Metcalf's back to the playoffs. Darnold Washington, no. Don't think so. But you have Kenneth Gainwell, the most explosive pass-catching running back in the history of football. Gainwell and Warren are Jameer Gibbs and David Montgomery in my mind. The thing is, he's so good at bending the rules during a game and just being like... Sal and I talked about it on Sunday night, like the Friar Muth pass route where he runs to the back of the end zone.

1:42:41and then just kind of does the James Harden into the safety. Yeah, yeah. Just kind of flails and hopes to get a pass interference. It feels like they run plays specifically to try to get pass interference. Yeah, he's doing all the old man, like, post-game moves. Like, Rodgers. Yeah, totally. He's trying to catch, like, 12 men on the field. Like, there's no other quarterback still doing that. Yeah. Colin, he doesn't care about when he uses timeouts. He's just like, I don't really like what I'm seeing there. Timeout. Right. It's like 15 minutes left in the game. but I gotta say I thought there was no chance this was gonna work I thought he was completely washed last year he didn't want to be hit now you think of them as a home dog I couldn't agree more on Houston I just couldn't believe also last night I mean I know there were so many twists at the end of that game but for the final touchdown drive that they had I can't believe he's that age and after everything that's happened I'm still like that's too much time for Rodgers dude there was two minutes left with no timeouts it only took him 55 seconds and no timeouts to go score with Thielen, MBS, Calvin Austin, and Scotty Miller.

1:43:42I mean... I mean, he had the G-leaguers in the secondary, I guess would be the only reason. But I think they really fucked up these field position things. Because I've been thinking about that. I'm really worried about Jacksonville for the Patriots if we can get by the Chargers, because I think Jacksonville's really good. They had this kicker that it just... If you're at midfield, he can make a field goal, right? So you could go up three, three minute with three minutes left, two minutes left, whatever. You kick off, they return it to the 32. They get one first down and they're in field goal range.

1:44:17I don't like it. I don't think they did a good thing with this. I agree because it's compounded with not, they changed the kickoff rules where you started the 35 yard line. And then also they've allowed these kicking balls this year where basically teams are allowed to prepare the football all season long when they used to just get like the day of the game. and so now the footballs are so much more worn in so kickers are way more accurate with them and they can kick them further so it's like that with the 35 yard line thing I hate it I want to move the I'm okay with the kicking balls because it's like if these kickers can be more accurate like this is their actual ability we're seeing and I'm cool with that sure but I think we need to move the field position back I'd like the 25 not the 35 like if I'm at the 25 with the way the kickers can kick the ball now yeah I at least have to go 35 yards I wonder if that gets offset at all by everybody going for it on fourth down now though like yeah it's just made it so much easier to score points I mean like I remember there was a game I think it was when Phillip Rivers his first game back against Seattle or whoever it was it was Phillip Rivers who's 45 years old and hasn't played in six years and he needed like 17 yards to get a field goal and of course he did and I'm like Phillip Rivers shouldn't be able to easily bring the team back and score points in the final seconds of a game like this is too easy yeah I feel like we've lost the concept of field position because when field position actually comes into play in a game, you really feel it now.

1:45:36Will there be these games, whether it happens to your team or whether a team you bet on or picked and it feels like all of a sudden they just can't get out of their own 15 and over and over again, they're 15 and they just can't get over the hump of getting out of there. It's like, yeah, this should be what football is like more often than I just gave up a touchdown. I'm already on the 34 and I need to go two first downs and I'm back in the game. The problem is the NFL wants kick returns. They want kickoffs and you have to put the ball at the 35 to incentivize people kicking the ball inbounds so that they're not doing the touchbacks.

1:46:10So it's kind of like a rock and a hard place thing, but I think they need to figure out the kickoff situation. Starting at the 35 is ludicrous to me now. I would get rid of field goals completely in overtime. They have to score? They're just gone. Gotta score. It's gotta be a touchdown. You gotta get a two-point. And that's it. And in the playoffs, I think that would be a great rule. every position or matter. It was a drama of last night of Boswell missing and the loop missing. We were talking about that before we started taping the mailbag. I hope everybody learns now that you're never close enough on a night game when you're playing in a place like Pittsburgh.

1:46:4512 seconds left on the 20... They're on the 22. It was going to... Get seven more yards. It was going to be a 42-yarder. 12 seconds left with a timeout. They could have easily thrown a seven-yard pass and made it a 35-yarder. Instead, Or go play action, go for the kill. Yeah. Lamar takes a negative two-yard kneel and makes it a 44-yarder on the road, outdoors in Pittsburgh. For a rookie, it's tough. I've never liked that. Even when it works out for your team or the team you bet on, it still makes me right. I hate relying on these dudes. And then this poor guy's life is ruined now. And Torrico laying that up when he's like, they searched far and wide for a kid who could deliver in this exact moment.

1:47:24I thought he was great. I thought they did an awesome job. You're not a Brady guy. As an announcer? Yeah. No, I'm not. But what are your critiques? I agree with you. I just want to hear your take as somebody who didn't grow up with him. Where do I start? I think he's incredibly stiff and robotic. I think he doesn't know what words are going to come out of his mouth when he starts a sentence. And he's so much better whenever you see him on a podcast or like Cowherd or Eisen or wherever he goes. He's so smooth and natural. And the second, it's ironic that Tom Brady shudders when the lights are on because it's the opposite of who he is in the field, but he is just so stiff and wooden.

1:48:01And it's just, it's bad across the board. Because everybody was like, I think he's going to have a hard time being candid if he's the co-owner of the Raiders and has this involvement. I don't think that's matter. I don't think he's had any problem being candid. And if anything, like I find his sports media appearances to be pretty, pretty on, like he's really upfront. Yeah. But it does feel like in the booth, it's not that it's moving too fast, but that he doesn't have like the same level of insight that he does when he's got a little bit more time and the lights aren't as bright. I don't know.

1:48:32It's kind of funny. He doesn't seem relaxed. Like Aikman is just hanging out. You feel like you're at a bar with Aikman. Same thing with Collinsworth. Yeah. They wait for the, there's a pace to how they do it. They don't need to feel like they have to talk just to say something. They don't have to feel like, I'm making words. Words are now coming out of my mouth. Like you never feel that way with those guys. They also have like things that they're interested in, things that they hate. Aikman's obviously like, like got his like bugaboos that he whole like tee off on. Brady hasn't gotten there yet with that stuff.

1:49:01No, he also hasn't figured out his announcer voice. Like he's, you know how sometimes when you record a podcast remotely and you have the headphones on, you kind of like yell louder than you should. Brady's kind of doing that where he feels like he's like actually speaking to millions of people who are in a room with him. And he like always has this kind of like yell cadence to him when Aikman and Collinsworth are just like laying back and talking. So you do this on the fantasy football show, but do your Brady impression. Baker Mayfield here, KB, drops back. Just can't find anyone, KB, and ends up throwing the ball away.

1:49:34Just a brutal play for the Tampa Bay offense. It's just repeating what Burkhardt has just said, but like as analysis, yeah. I also, so he does that, but like he did this during the Lions-Bears game where he does, he kind of assumes like this importance to things that aren't that meaningful or like he's like obviously this is a massive massive play for the Lions it's like they're out of the playoffs there's a massive play these guys are going to Aruba tomorrow yeah but then I think the thing that's frustrating about him is there will be these moments during the game when all of a sudden for like 45 seconds he's really good and he like when he brings in his own experiences with stuff and all of a sudden it's like oh that's Tom Brady do you think that there's a majority of football fans or like it's just pretty cool that Tom Brady's calling this game?

1:50:24Maybe. I can't tell if I'm inside of a bubble. Like 57 % of people watching a football game are just like, that's pretty cool. Probably. Yes. Because I think we get caught up on like that should be Greg Olson. He's so much better or whatever. But like I wonder if like a lot of people are like, is that Tom Brady? Awesome. I just feel like it's Collinsworth and Aikman. And then it drops off and there's a couple other guys. I thought J.J. Watt was pretty good this year. I didn't mind when he did the games. Olsen was okay during the Miami Pats game yesterday, but he's with Joe Davis, who I'm just not a fan of.

1:50:56Also, man, what is age worse than everybody being afraid that Brady being in these pregame meetings was going to help the Raiders? It's the funniest thing. I mean, they already fired P. Carroll. Yeah. I would argue he's been a disaster. If he's like the conciliary for the Raiders, this couldn't have gone worse. Plus, taking Ashton Gentry, the sixth pick, when you can't block, that's tough. You got to fire him just because if you're going to rebuild, you're the number one pick in the draft, you're probably going to take like Mendoza or Dante Moore you can't start over with Pete Carroll who's probably going to be there for like a year or two more anyway I just I'm not entirely sure football's going to work in Vegas Fernando Mendoza might be the worst fit in the city of Las Vegas that I've ever seen but it might that might be what they need like they need a guy who's like I have no interest in blackjack he's like what is roulette it's black and red like I just want to I just want to play football yeah he's like I just go to the sphere and I play football yeah he strikes me as from the producers of Russell Wilson, we bring you Mendoza.

1:51:52He's Kirk Cousins. It's a weird one. How do you feel about your team? I was going to ask you about this. I want to ask you about this. You're an Eagles fan. You've won two Super Bowls last seven years. Where are we at with the statute of limitations about when you can complain about a team that's just won a championship? It's supposed to be five years. Yeah, and that was a different time. It's been ten months. I think it's just a very specific thing that I have a complaint about, which is that the offensive playbook and the execution of that playbook, it's very vanilla. It's a hard watch. It makes it's a bummer to...

1:52:27Hard watch is the wrong word. It's an unnecessarily hard watch. I watch them and I'm just like, what is so hard about playing with pace and using receivers and using Seiko? You have all these toys. Also, it's like the Kremlin where it's just very unclear as to what's what they want to call versus what Jalen Hurts feels comfortable running like there's like two competing narratives about it yesterday then they played the commanders again i'm glad we don't play commanders again and i'd rather play the fucking niners than the commander uh yesterday was like a big thing where there is a contingent of eagles fans of which i may or may not have participated that were like is it tanner time would would tanner mckee run this offense more like on like on time and it with tempo and clearly not although obviously didn't have the skill players out there once Devontae sat down.

1:53:17That was like when Kip Pardue was sunshine, sunshine, Ronnie Bass, and remember the Titans. He's like, is this guy in A-lister? And then he was in driven. And he was like, oh, guess that. But yeah, it's just been an irritating season. It was like the first half of the season was like AJ versus Jalen. Then the second half of the season, we've just been spamming AJ, but the offense hasn't looked that much better. And I feel like every pass, the receivers are running back to the ball. There's no such thing as Yak in Philadelphia. and Saquon have you run a trick play all year? I wouldn't even know what that would be no we haven't there's there's barely any motion no there's so many offensive statistics that just show how boring the offense is I think there's like AJ Brown has run like the least amount of snaps from the slot of any receiver in the NFL this year which is just like the easiest way to get your best guy the ball is to like move him around and he's just in the same spot it's one thing I've appreciated with the Pats this year is that they don't really have any great weapons other than the 50 % of the time Diggs plays.

1:54:16Henry's a good tight end. He's probably a top eight tight end. The running backs are pretty good. But the way McDaniels uses everybody, you feel like he's put real thought into oh, and then the second quarter, we're going to run that fake reverse. When I watch the Eagles, I don't see any of that. It just feels like they just want to take 35 seconds of play, go slow, methodical, kill the clock for some reason. Why do you want to kill the clock? If you watch the hard knocks, Sirianni runs through like this like if we win the turnover battle we're like 57 and one yeah and so it's essentially like his bet is like if we win the turnover battle if we don't give the ball away and i gotta admit watching tanner murkey throw picks yesterday i was like oh this sucks yeah like we just drove all the way down the field and he threw a fucking pick on the one yard line like this is not i'm glad i don't have to watch this every week but there there is just something that's just really grinding and we're just in a spot where we have like a ceo coach whether or not he should be like a ceo or not but he thinks that he has like an offensive system most teams have the play caller coach we have lost our oc every year either because they get hired away like steichen and kellen moore or we fire them like brian johnson and probably kevin petullo and it's just a really tough spot to be in because you're constantly reshuffling and i feel like i don't know i mean but I have nothing to complain about every other team would probably trade places I feel like you're allowed to complain even after you won a Super Bowl if the team has so much potential and you're not reaching any of it.

1:55:50It's the endless cycle of the Eagles have a really good season and then they allow, and then so their coordinator gets hired somewhere else and then Sirianni is allowed to pick his own play caller that play caller sucks, they get rid of him and then Howie's like, I'm picking the play caller they bring in like Kellen Moore, they're good and then the same thing happens again. Yeah. And every year, Jalen Hurts has to get to know another offensive coordinator. Now, like, I, I just wish it was more entertaining. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. I guess part of what I don't understand about football and neither do you guys probably because we didn't play.

1:56:22Is it? I played freshman year in high school. What is this? I mean, if we're like playing NFL. Is it this complicated when you get a new coordinator? Is it like, is it like, Drake May had a new offensive coordinator from last year to this year, and it was okay. Should it be this? Every time they always blame this when the offense doesn't look good, it's like, well, you know, Hurts, and it's a new guy. It's like, how fucking hard is that? That's a BS complaint. I think we do a lot of, like, if you do Ball Nowhere's side of football media and you're watching a lot of All-22 breakdown stuff, I can attest it really only matters if people can block.

1:57:00And Saquon Barkley has just been running into the back of his offensive line all year, and the last three years, whether it was Saquon or Miles Sanders or whoever game well, we were a buzzsaw. And dudes were just getting six yards a carry. And so that set up the pass. Of course. And now we're just the most conservative offense because we're not actually getting anything on the ground. So, you know, I'm going to do all my picks on Thursday. I'm hoping to change my luck. I did not have a good season this year. But I still feel like I have a... I don't know. I'm weirdly confident for the playoffs.

1:57:30I think this was the one team San Francisco could have played in round one that they actually could probably beat. Oh, Philly. Yeah. Oh, I think this is a tough matchup for San Francisco. Well, every matchup's a tough matchup for them. Their defense sucks. Yeah. But I was thinking about it from their side. Like, my defense sucks. I'd want to play Philadelphia because they're going to be so slow and conservative anyway. That's actually, like, pretty good for my defense. And they're going to be able to score on them offensively, I think, maybe. But I don't know. I didn't like any other matchup for them.

1:57:58No, I mean, the NFC is really good. But flying to Philly, cold weather outdoors, Brock Purdy's beat up. Trent Williams is beat up. With the Eagles defense, I think it's kind of a tough draw. Is Brock Purdy beat up because he has that cut in his hand? He hurt himself in the last play of the game. I think he's in a place. He's okay. I don't know. There's some major nobody believes in us going on with the Niners. I think the Niners probably think that the Eagles stole a Super Bowl appearance from them a couple years ago. I think that case. I think this is important. I know Niners fans who were like, you guys decimating, taking out Brock, and then I can't...

1:58:29Was it Trey Lance? Was this the backup? I can't remember who the backup was. Josh Johnson. No, it wound up being Josh Johnson. We may have been playing against McCaffrey in Wildcat at the end. I can't even remember. It invented. It's why the NFL now, the emergency third quarterback rule was created because of that game, the NFC Championship. That's right. So I think the Niners still feel like the Eagles stole one from them. And I think they are going to be playing with a big chip on their shoulder. That being said, I think you're right. West Coast to East Coast in Philly. It's tough. Our starting defense is fucking.

1:58:58Niners' offense is really good, though. Rocking. Our defense is really good. It's a suspicious line. What is it? It's like Philly by three and a half. And San Francisco sucks on defense. They're legitimately bad. It is interesting though, Seattle only scored, what, 13 on them? What was the final score of that game? Yeah, 13-3. Yeah.

1:59:28I don't know. I think they're scary. I think it's strange too, but apparently the players were okay with it. And I think people would have been losing their shit if Devontae Smith or AJ or Saquon or Jalen Hurts had gotten hurt in that game. Which totally could have happened. Brock Purdy hurting himself in the last fucking play. Yeah. I don't know. If I get the two seed, I get to play Green Bay. And then I get the second game at home. And it's just easier for me to make the Super Bowl. at the very least like why can't you play them for an hour see what's going on in the Chicago game and it's like holy shit Chicago's losing because yesterday during the game the play by play guy who I can't remember who it was was like advocating for Sirianni to like bring the starters in in like the third quarter I was like that's how football works like these guys can't just like come in cold in the third quarter and play against the commanders like they'll get killed I just think Philly is like they are built for winning a playoff game like where they just drag you down to the mud it's low scoring I'm gonna land there by Thursday right now I'm I'm being seduced by the sexy San Francisco angle I was I was watching it yesterday with a buddy and I was like if the Eagles beat the Niners this weekend I'll shut up about Nick Sirianni forever because obviously it's not pleasant it's not fun but whatever he's doing is how you win football games it is weird when you have a just a really frustrating team like the 2023 Celtics were like this for me, the last Marcus Smart season where they almost made the finals.

2:00:59But I just hated watching them all year. Whereas this year, I love the Celtics. I feel like there's a really fun Eagles team in there. Like a team I would want to watch where it's, if you're going to pay$60 million for two receivers and then it's like you're begrudgingly using them, what's the point of that? I just think that line, the offensive line's just in a transition moment and it's post-Kelsey, Lane Johnson's been hurt, Leonard Dickerson has been on and off hurt. and I just think that they can't block and because they can't block, nothing works. Yeah, I think that's right. It's almost impressive that our record is as good as it is.

2:01:35Craig was a virgin the last time the Steelers had a really good playoff moment. What year was that? 2016? Freshman football? No, I was good then. 2016? Yeah. Did they win a playoff game that year? Yeah, they won 2016. I was going back to 2008, James Harrison. I was a virgin in 2008, that's right. Right? It is. You didn't look at a girl like, It's the housing crisis. Let's go. I was 14. Yeah. 16, you lost to us. God, I can't even remember. I think we waxed you. Yeah. That was the last time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's weird. The Steelers haven't really felt like they had a chance to win a Super Bowl since the 2000s.

2:02:11Was that the bullshit Heath Miller game when he caught that pass? No, it was regular season. Oh. Yeah. But you keep Tomlin. Yeah, Tomlin will come back. Were you excited about that or no? I am now. Do you think it's Tomlin and Arthur Smith come back and they'll have some continuity? Yeah. I think they need to get a new defensive coordinator. I think they have the most basic, boring, predictable defense in the league. I'm like Raheem Morris getting fired. Raheem Morris and Tomlin are buddies. They were together in Tampa. They did an episode of Flying Coach together. Get Raheem to be the DC in Pittsburgh.

2:02:42That's pretty scary. Yeah. Raheem was like overqualified DC, underqualified head coach. Yeah. But everybody said as a DC, he was awesome. But like, well, the Steelers have the most expensive defense in the league or something. And it's like, not good. That was the craziest thing in this season to me is that Atlanta only went 8-9 and didn't win that division by far had the most talent. Yeah. There's no question they were the best team. They had one loss to the Jets and if they didn't do that, they would have won the division. Was Cousins available earlier in the season? Yeah. You wonder what would have happened.

2:03:11Oh, Mike. Oh, Mike. I think we overestimated or we underestimated what another year of recovery from an Achilles tear will do. Kirk looks so much better. Rodgers looks so much better. I think, you know, keep that in mind for Jason Tatum's Valentine's Day return. That's right. Oh, man. We just need like 15 minutes a game from Tatum. 15 minutes a game? To add to this juggernaut Celtics thing. Okay. Yeah. Just need him to take the Baylor-Showerman minutes for seven minutes and a half. Will he accept that? He just Sean Livingston? We're just going to sneak him in. Just like, just shoot some threes, grab a couple rebounds.

2:03:46Ready to go. Who was your fantasy MVP of the year? It's McCaffrey. It's got to be. For what? You agree with my theory that if you pick McCaffrey, you probably won your draft or made the finals? Yeah, and just the risk-reward of McCaffrey, if you were brave enough to take him in the first round of your draft. And then the game one, opening day, I think it was Eagles-Cowboys, that day there was a report that came out that he had a calf injury and he missed practice, and everybody lost their shit. And he played every single game and ended up having just as good of a year fantasy-wise. I think he had the exact same points per game as he did that 2023 season where he was amazing.

2:04:21It's unbelievable that he had bilateral Achilles tendonitis, came back and had the same year as he did in 2023. We should do post-football. We should do the best fantasy players of the last 35 years on my pod with you and the Dannys. 35 years might be hard for me to contribute the first half. You're from your virginity on. No, but we could do... That's a long time. We could just look at the stats. We could print out whatever the numbers were. Okay. Because I'm telling you, Jerry Rice in the 90s, was like the all-timer. Going back to like... The reason I thought of that was because I think McCaffrey is a first ballot fantasy guy now.

2:04:58Yeah. When we think of like that last level of like not only great, but great for like eight, nine years. Like Tomlinson was like that. Oh, Tomlinson. Jerry Rice was like that. LT was the guy when I was growing up in middle school, I started playing fantasy football. I remember he would throw for a touchdown, run a touchdown, and catch a touchdown every year. No, I'm talking like the OGs. Like these guys won leagues for you. Marshall Falk was like that for a couple of years. there's also like two amazing Priest Holmes years yeah there's a couple like mini Dion Waiter seasons where it's like guys who were incredible for two years and then disappeared like Chris Johnson on the Titans was unbelievable Peyton Hillis Peyton Hillis was so good there's some receivers like David Boston had a crazy year Josh Gordon all timer it would be funny to try to figure out the actual first ballot guys which we could probably figure out pretty easily by the by the the numbers but Rice was like he was the first one yeah he was he was he would go like first, second, third in some of these drafts.

2:05:52The fantasy thing that we always talk about is this playoff league I'm in. My fantasy league with my guy, the first one I was in with my high school and some college buddies. And we go through 18 weeks. Top four teams advance to the playoffs. You get to keep up to six guys. Then we have a draft. So finish first place. That guy's first pick. It's not Snake. And it goes one, two, three, four. First place guy picks second in round two. and you pick all the guys out of all the teams that didn't make the playoffs. So if somebody had Josh Allen, they didn't make the playoffs. Josh Allen, not eligible for the draft.

2:06:26We do two quarterbacks and you have an advantage if you're in first place, but the lower you go, you kind of have to take chances and be like, I'm all in on Jacksonville making the playoffs. Because you have to weigh how good is the player versus how good is the team. Could I get four Trevor Lawrence games here? And then, and it's really good. It's really fun. And we think it's better than actual fantasy. Plus he keeps going. Who's the top pick? Is it Josh Allen because he's a wild card so you can get four games out of him? I mean, Drake May, I guess, is also playing round one. Drake May is up there because you might get three games out of him.

2:07:01And I think same thing for Josh. You get four. The problem with the league this year is that there's no slam dunk. Right. I know this team will be in the Super Bowl. That's the thing is I was just like, what fan is like, we could win the Super Bowl? If you think Seattle's going to make the Super Bowl, then JSN would be a top four guy. She'd be like, I will get three games out of him. But I don't know if they're going to make the Super Bowl. No, the NFC is so tough. There is no prohibitive favorite. I don't know. Maybe Denver fans feel really good, but it's... No, they shouldn't. I don't. I mean, I think Seattle and the Rams have the best odds by far.

2:07:32And then it dips down to the Denver one. But that's why we have four home dogs in round one. I don't think any fan base feels awesome about their team. I think I know somebody from every fan base. The Seattle fans are the funniest because they just don't trust Arnold at all. Sure. They have a really good team, really well coached. Running game looked better. The San Francisco game was a big win, but they don't... You just can't trust Arnold until you see it. Do you trust the Patriots? I don't trust the defense. I trust the offense. I think they'll be able to move the ball, and I completely trust Drake.

2:08:03Because especially with Will Campbell back, they're going to be able to put drives together. Which team would you want to see the least in the AFC Championship? At Denver, it's complicated from a Patriots standpoint because there's some bad history there in the history of the franchise. But on the flip side, we have good history against the Chargers. We have good history against the Jaguars. I think the Jaguars have the highest ceiling of all the AFC teams because they've been really good now for two months. Everyone says the same thing. It's like, well, the Jaguars are playing the best, but, and then you pick another team, and it's like, well, the Jaguars are playing the best.

2:08:39You just said it. Why can't they keep winning? They're probably the most balanced in terms of good defense, good offense. They have both. Yeah, and they have explosive plays and they can get third downs. Yeah, and I don't understand why Trevor Lawrence is not, and Liam Cohen are not in the coach of the year and MVP conversation. Liam Cohen should be. Trevor Lawrence has the same stats as Drake May. He won 13 games. He won his division. He's won eight straight. I don't know why he's not in conversation with the MVP. I think he's going to be the third. But he's like 600 to one or something compared to Stafford and May, which is a coin step.

2:09:09I think it was too late when he got going. Yeah, I don't know. I'm already on the record as saying I was out and that he was never going to be good at football so it's a tough one for him because I have to unwind that one he's been really good I don't know if it was the KC game that flipped it that Monday night game but I actually have real confidence in him which would be hilarious if I then pick them in a bunch of playoff games and then he just fucks me do you care at all about Lamar and Mahomes and maybe some of the bigger teams not getting to the playoffs? Do you think... Because the NBA, it's like they're...

2:09:45No, because we've replaced those guys. Don't you think? I feel like we have new characters. I think football transcends at this point. But you still need the guys. Because we had that the beginning of the 2000s when we had Warner and Brady show up. But it was basically like Manning and Favre and there wasn't anybody else. We were like, who's like Steve McDarran? These people that weren't even that fun to watch play football. And there was the whole... It was kind of an existential crisis. of who are the next guys. We were like putting everything on Peyton Manning. I feel like we have so many good young guys now.

2:10:19Yeah, totally. We talked about this on our big year recap on the fantasy show that just like the winner of the year was kind of just like the new guard replacing the old guard of Mahomes and Lamar missing the playoffs. Burrow missing the playoffs. Burrow missing the playoffs. The Bills not winning the division and kind of having a down year for probably what they expected. And then you got all these guys. I mean, the mini winner within that category of the year is all these offensive coordinators who come in and like, in these play callers, like Liam Cohen coming in and fixing Trevor Lawrence, Ben Johnson fixing Caleb Johnson, or Ben Johnson fixing Caleb Williams, McDaniel with Drake May.

2:10:52There's been so many examples of just like talented quarterbacks who were struggling and these guru play callers come in and now the offense is great. And now we have like double the amount of great quarterbacks in the league. Yeah, even Bo Nix, who I'm not even 100 % sold on, is fun to watch. I think we have a lot of fun to watch, guys. but I don't know Lamar and Mahomes to me were the old guard Burrow was sort of there but I feel like he's been hurt every year and we all knew his team was going to suck his career is the one that I wish I don't want to take him away from Bengals fans but I do wish Burrow was in either had like a better infrastructure around him or was on like a different team and could I said to Sal on Sunday he's the closest to an NBA star that we have at the quarterback position he's starting to talk a lot see it's weird He's weird in the press conferences.

2:11:40He seems mad at the team, but he also signed a huge extension with them and pushed them to spend all of their money on him and two receivers. Yeah. And back to Zach Taylor. He's like, it's not his fault. Didn't try to get him out. And you watch the receivers. Don't they not have a GM? Yeah. It's so funny. They don't spend money? No. I watched that whole... Sal and I had the Bengals in a tease, so we were watching. That was the one we lost yesterday. Oh, against the Browns. T. Higgins has guys draped all over him every play. He's never open. Yeah. And then Chase, because he has no time to throw, it's basically like 10-yard routes for him.

2:12:21So it's like, what's the point of having these two receivers if you can't block for them? At least the Eagles can block the two receivers you have. But I don't understand that blueprint of, we need to spend$60 million of this position. They listened to Burrow. Burrow advocated for it. And he's really throwing his weight around. Like he's LeBron-ing it a little bit where he's kind of like, I want Zach Taylor to stay. I want you to re-sign Tee Higgins. I want you to draft these guys. So it's kind of like, and they have tried to draft offensive linemen. They're just not working. They drafted, is it Armand Membu?

2:12:49Yeah. At like fifth or sixth overall. A lot of them just like aren't working. No, they drafted, he went to the Jets. Oh, Marius Mims, they drafted. Yeah, yeah. And he hasn't really been that great. It's tough. It's really hard to pay. I mean, the Cowboys are about to go through this right now. Paying your quarterback 50 million, and two wide receivers a ton of money. It's really hard to do that. I think the draft is maybe I'm getting older and just getting better at trying to figure it out. But like the Will Campbell thing was so funny as it was happening with the arm length. Yeah. And just missing all this basic shit like and you could tell from the moment they drafted him he's like I will now protect Drake May for the rest of my life.

2:13:29And that's right like he's Drake May's best friend. Yeah. They hang out all the time. He's like my role in life is to be this man's protector. I don't understand how that doesn't come up in the draft process you're getting this guy who's like I was built to be a left tackle give me the quarterback I have to protect he's almost like in Game of Thrones a lot of it is situational right I remember all the pods you guys did about Bo Nix or in that quarterback class and it's just like if you get Sean Payton if Bo Nix was on the Jets he'd be probably terrible and would have been benched by now the problem where it goes really like the Penix pick which was one of the worst picks ever when it happened and then the only thing you could say like in favor of it was well if he can stay healthy and then he gets hurt again it's like of course he got hurt he's had five fucking knee injuries and by the way it wasn't good to begin with like really unimpressive when you watched him and he's older I liked him in college a little bit but like Tyler Shuck is a similar example he's like 26 years old he was on Justin Herbert's team at Oregon which is insane and he's had two career-rating injuries already and he's 26 years old and it's like alright we'll see what Kellen Moore can turn him into something.

2:14:34He looks all right. But it's kind of similar to the panic situation, except they didn't take him in the first round. But they took him 40th instead of 8th. And they didn't take him in the area of quarterback. The funny thing that's happening now, because I was just reading all of the portal stuff before we started doing rewatchables, like, all those guys are staying. Like, the dude who's going to Texas Tech is going to make$5 million. The guy from University of Cincinnati, and he's going to go to... Like, he's basically, like, gets a rookie quarterback contract to go play for Texas Tech. So I think all the quarterbacks coming out will probably be a little bit older than we're used to soon.

2:15:06Definitely. That's going to become a trend. I mean, I think Anthony Richardson was like the end of the era of the quarterback. Of like, let's take a 20-year-old. Yeah. Played like 12 games, but he's a freak. Like, if you're Dante Moore, like, don't you just... You could stay at Eugene and probably like... Well, that's the thing. I mean, they might win a national championship this year. I think they have incredible recruits next year. He'll get paid$5 million, and then he doesn't have to risk going to the Raiders or the Jets if he doesn't want to go there. This is where you need almost like a draft committee for...

2:15:32athlete advice, you'd be like, Dante, here's the history of guys who came out in the NFL draft too early as quarterbacks. Now, here's the history of all the guys who played for the Jets. Don't do this, man. Yeah. Just trust the process for one more year. You're going to be out of the league in five years. The Jets are going to probably... They'll probably be picking close to the top of the first round. It's like you can't really... In 27. And there will be more quarterbacks coming out, but... Yeah. It gets tricky when you try to do that. But, I mean, quarterbacks have done that in the past, right?

2:16:00The full circle would be the Jets taking somebody else and then spending money on Mac Jones. I feel like Mac Jones playing on the Jets for$28 million a year would be the Jetsiest of the Jets outcomes. Because you can talk yourself into it. We should rank one of the most Jetsiest outcomes. I think the Dolphins eating$49 million of Tua's contract and then the Jets signing him, giving him the Russell Wilson, the Steelers,$1 million a year. We're basically getting him for free. Oh,$1 million for Tua? He'd play three games. that's a Jetsy outcome. Or they just pay up for Kyler Murray and convince themselves that that could work.

2:16:37Kyler Murray feels very Jetsy to me, too. The Jets have always been like this. I remember, it was like 30 years ago, Neil O'Donnell was in the Super Bowl against Dallas and threw the worst pick of all time to lose the game, but just was like, good, but not quite good enough. And then the Jets splurged on him because he was a winner. And then he gave the press conference where he was like, I'm a winner. Me and my friends made a joke about it. We still joke about it. I'm a winner. I was brought here to win games. And he was done in like a year. You just kind of know with some of the... Like if it's the Jets, I don't know what type of quarterback would succeed on the Jets, but we've tried all the types at this point.

2:17:15And I don't even... Like, would Drake May have worked on the Jets? Like, I think he would have, but I don't know. I mean, look at Drake May on the Patriots year one. Didn't work. Like running for his life. I mean, I would argue he overachieved. Yeah. He's literally running for his life all the time. Do you have an MVP? thing, just out of curiosity. I'll abstain because I've already talked about it. I don't have strong feelings on it. I think they're both deserving. I don't have a problem. I know the one knock is like the last time an MVP won that didn't win their division was like 20 years ago.

2:17:43So I think that's fair. I don't know. I think Stafford... Sure said three wild cards this century won the MVP. I wouldn't be upset if either won the MVP. And if I had to give it to one person, I'd probably give it to Stafford. Yeah, sure you would. Fucking typical media. I'll take May just because I had him on Fantasy. Yeah. Did you see Tom Brady pick? I did. Who did he pick? Like Miles Garrett? No, he picked Matt Snavern, of course. Okay. That felt like a very stealth Josh McDaniel thing. Josh has been dining on. I did everything, and I don't want Josh to get too much credit here. Well, and just like, I don't want there to be a new king of New England.

2:18:17Well, but it's like, if McDaniel can turn May into an MVP in two years, then like, what does that mean about Brady? Exactly. We've already debunked the strength of schedule thing because the thing came out about all the EPA defenses each guy faced. They're basically the same. Stafford's only playing the defense of the other team. He's not playing offense. So that's already been debunked. Nobody seems to care about May's running and the fact that he can scramble and use his legs. Definitely don't care about his running. Stafford's like basically can't move. He's a fossil. Stafford threw 46 touchdowns, eight picks.

2:18:51I love how passionate you still get. It's really good. Led the league in passing. I would be passionate if this was an NBA argument with two guys I didn't care about. I think at some point, logic is logic. In all the cases for Stafford, it's like, I can debunk that. I can't debunk your 46 touchdowns, 13 of which came on the one-yard line. You're right. I can't beat that one. But I just think what May did this year has been underrated. But I guess if he loses to the Chargers in round one, then it looks stupid. I think they're both deserving. I don't have super strong thoughts. I do think the Patriots having one of the easiest schedules of the 21st century.

2:19:28Yeah. If you can discredit Stafford for having Puka and throwing a bunch of one-yard touchdowns, I can also discredit. But when they say easy schedule, like they played San Francisco's terrible defense twice and San Francisco's a playoff team. So it's like there's a playoff team he played. I would love playing against the San Francisco defense. We went against the Cleveland defense, which was good, but Cleveland sucked. Now I know. Which defense would you rather go against? But in most of the games, you only need to score 14 points to win because you're going up against the Jets. And you're up by 20 at halftime.

2:19:56Stafford's going to win. Everybody's oversighted. What? Regular season award? No, it's a lifetime achievement award. We're finding out. That is honestly kind of what it is. This is Al Pacino and Son of a Woman. It's like, well, sorry about Godfather 2, Al. Downey Jr. Oppenheimer. Here's your Oscar. I don't know. I think it's close enough where you can't be outraged either way. I think the nerds are going to carry Drake May home this week because there's so many EPA, all that shit. it's going to help. But like, how can you make the case definitively for Drake May over Trevor Lawrence? It's a good question.

2:20:26I think because Lawrence wasn't as good in the first six, seven weeks. It's actually Trevor Lawrence. People would respect that. Oh, can you imagine if I did that? They had like the same amount of yards. Trevor Lawrence had more touchdowns. One less win. Also won his division. Also, he can run. I think he ran for nine touchdowns. Yeah, but you're leaving out stuff where like the Pats had the number one offense in EPA. May led the league in completion percentage and yards per attempt. I'm just saying. But you did do this yourself. There's this better... What was Sal's reaction? Sal, he's already pigeonholed by his Drake Maybe stuff from the beginning of the year.

2:20:55So now he's just reading his Drake Maybe. What do you feel about the Chargers in New England? I can't believe the Chargers won 11 games. So that's where I am. And a lot of people are like Chargers, underdog. I actually feel like this was a pretty good matchup for us. Oh, yeah. If you can't beat the Chargers, this whole season was a lie. And you should feel the same way about your team. if you can't beat the Niners with that defense like what a fucking joke with all the offense and all the money you've spent on your offense you can't beat the Niners defense I still feel like this is my whole thing is like the Eagles are just this is still like a skip day you know what I mean it's like yeah that's a good way to think I'd like us to win at least a playoff game that's right because going back to back in the NFL doesn't really mean anything there's no history at all I'm buffed only like five teams have done it shouldn't want that I'm just saying that given the evidence of what I've seen, it's not.

2:21:52Did you like my theory that the, the Eagles didn't care about the two or the three seed because they want, they don't want to play any playoff home games because their fans hate them. Um, I don't think that that's true, but I do think that they play freer on the road. Yeah. And I don't think they get booed at halftime if they've only scored 13 points or something. So how would you grade the regular season for 2015, 2025 across the board? Yeah, just across the entertainment value this season. I thought it was one of the better seasons in a while. The unpredictability of, I think, Mahomes and Lamar dropping out with all of these new quarterbacks.

2:22:25Like, the fact that Caleb worked, Trevor Lawrence worked, Drake May worked. Yeah. I think this is the most excited I've been for the playoffs in a long time. I think it was an A-plus regular season. So many twists and turns. It's as wide. I mean, I think the Chiefs' downfall, it just created this vacuum of, you could give me six different teams. I believe it. A lot. there was like 10 really memorable games too. Like that Casey Jacksonville Monday night game was fucking crazy. The opening Baltimore Buffalo game, the bears game. Yeah. That Niners, um, Seahawks, not Niners Seahawks, Ram Seahawks, Ram Seahawks.

2:23:00It was crazy. The Packers Bears game from a couple of weeks ago was nuts. The bills were in that one bills. Pats game was really good. There's really good games. And I kind of don't mind, like you could give me any Superbowl matchup and I'd be like, that's cool. You can pick any two teams. And I'm like, that's exciting. That's different. It used to be, I remember last year, everybody was like, please just don't do Chiefs-Eagles. And it's always like, please just don't have to be the Chiefs again. Now I'm kind of like, whichever team makes it, I'm kind of excited for. Yeah. I actually was looking this morning at the odds of a Jacksonville-Seattle Super Bowl.

2:23:29That would be amazing. And they weren't nearly as high as I thought. It was like 17-1. I'm like, how is this not like 80-1? This is a crazy Super Bowl. Can you imagine? Yeah. The Jaguars! The Seahawks! It's nice, though, that with that kind of thing, if the Jags and the Seahawks played in the Super Bowl, like, still everybody would watch it. It's not like... It's super cool. Yeah. It's not like the small market thing in the NBA where if it's like the Bucks and the Suns, nobody's going to watch. It doesn't matter who's in the Super Bowl, people are going to watch. The funny thing is the Jags are doing all of this after trading all this stuff for Travis Hennar who stopped playing for them like two months ago.

2:24:03I know. That's such a terrible trade in retrospect already. And his career ended when Danny and Craig said he was basically Wondell Robinson with better PR. Yeah. And meanwhile, Wando Robinson, didn't he get like a thousand yards? He got a thousand yards. He was like insulting to Wando Robinson. Wando Robinson almost did like the Miles Garrett stop the game because he got his thousand yards. I love when Zach Taylor got mad about that. Yeah. He's like, what the fuck? We're stopping the game? We're fighting for our lives out here. We were trying to run tempo. Yeah. Nobody told me about this. Settle down.

2:24:37Travis Hunter might not like start at wide receiver next year. They have three good wide receivers. They should just play him at D-back though. which is what they should have done anyway. Just made him a shutdown cornerback who can come out for some third of the tenths. I mean, this entire playoffs is like the nobody believes in us playoffs. Like every team. It's like the Bears. Do you believe in the Bears? We haven't seen it from Drake May and the Patriots in the playoffs. Trevor Lawrence and the Jags. It's like Sam Darnold. Who do I believe in? I was trying to think who the number one nobody believes in us team.

2:25:07And the Jaguars, who already were touting that for the last like six weeks. Right. and then to be home underdogs against Buffalo, a team that they've played better than for the last three months, I think they're probably number one. Yeah. I think the Bears are in there too, though. I do like the Bears. Because being underdogs against the Packers, who are banged up, is a good one. And then the Panthers, obviously, getting 10-and-a-half. Oh, yeah. I don't know if the players understand math and how fucking embarrassing 10-and-a-half is, but that is such a slap in the face. That's one of the biggest spreads we've ever had.

2:25:38The Rams. They beat the Rams like a month ago. And by the way, you can throw the ball on the Rams. The Rams are going to win. Brissette was over and over again just beating them. It wasn't like the Rams didn't need the game yesterday. I think Devontae's going to be back, which will be big. So, Stafford can throw some more one-yard touchdowns. You think he can grab him in there? The one thing I think got overrated was the Houston defense, which I think peaked about four weeks ago. And I'm not sure it's exactly the same defense and seems to be giving up long balls now that they weren't before. So going back to...

2:26:12Did they lose a DB or something like that? No, they just... They were really sloppy. They gave up two long plays to the Chargers. They were getting beat yesterday. And it's like, that could be a DK Metcalf spot for you. Yeah, it's going to be an ugly game. I do think Rodgers looked really good last night because the Ravens had no pass rush. So I am a little worried about Will Anderson and Daniil Hunter hitting him in the third series and him just being like, I'm rattled. Yeah, there's a world where you just get overrun. Yeah. That's always the case, though, with the Steelers. It's either win by two, lose by 20.

2:26:45Unbelievable. Plus, we have Sixers-Celtics in May for the Eastern Conference Finals. I can't wait for that. How are you feeling about the Embiid-Desants? Have we ever had a situation where the Sixers and Celtics fans both love their team at the same time? I can't believe how. 2018 was the last time, maybe? I feel such deep connection to this Sixers team now. like the fucking BJ it's like forget Dwayne Wade let's talk MJ the Grizzlies game that was like a couple of nights before Christmas yeah or after Christmas it was like unreal like in the the one on Peacock I watched that game he's right I mean you have two of the most fun players in the league my team has this Jalen Brown Renaissance and Tatum coming back and really fun to watch pretty crazy I would not have predicted that we would be the two most fun teams in the East I know it's the Cavs made way for us.

2:27:34Our guy, Daryl sticking around now. Seems like it. Yeah. Your team's dead. Sorry. Your team's looking at Anthony Davis and Michael Porter Jr. I need to get in a room with Joe Lacob, give him a piece of my mind for what he's done to us the last five years. He'd be happy to write you back in an email if someone. It's tough because, I mean, he can just wait. He just waited for Steph Curry for five years. But he could also say we won the title on 22. We've won four. We've spent as much money as we could possibly spend. We out-thought a lot of teams. It's kind of like... You guys have had a great run.

2:28:10You've had a run that most people who watch basketball will never experience. We've been sticking to Jonathan Kaminga, Pajemski, and a bunch of scrubs literally for four straight years. Yeah. Just waiting for the right trade to come along. Yeah. The Kaminga thing, that was just amazing. I would love to have Anthony Davis. I don't care. Kaminga this weekend when he was getting yanked around by Kerr and then they're like, Benidia's like, my back hurts him out. It was like, we've now reached the fuck you area of that relationship. Yeah, it's time. It's been like a week. Do you think the Warriors are going to get anybody?

2:28:45I mean, what's interesting is I thought it was going to be Porter Jr. for a little while there, which I think would have really helped them. But now he's probably played himself up into like a two first round picks type of... Michael Porter Jr.? Yeah. He's been going toe to toe. But you do know what you're getting, right? We just watched all this. Or you're getting somebody who's blossoming and maybe on Denver couldn't use all the pieces of them. It's dangerous is my point. Steph's going to be 38 in March and he's averaging 29 a game. And he's just been doing that. He looks the same as he did five years ago.

2:29:19LeBron for Butler is just the trade that makes the league more fun. That is just a hilarious trade. I'd rather jump off the Golden Gate Bridge than LeBron James on the Warriors. They have to figure out the Draymond thing, too. I've been enjoying watching JJ's press conferences more than actual Lakers games. Yeah, me too. Where JJ's media availability after practice, where he's just like, guess everybody just had a great holiday. I didn't. He's like, I don't know. We weren't even running plays out there. I got to work on that. We're calling the plays. They're not running them. Pretty funny. We need like...

2:29:52I was thinking like if the ringer worked like some of these NBA teams, how interesting that would be. Where if like... I don't know. Sean was like Draymond Green and he's just taping the big picture. Punching me in the face. He just storms out of a big picture taping an hour in. It's like, we only have another hour or one hour of the big picture because Sean couldn't make it through another taping. It's literally Draymond's job to stay in the court for the entire game. You have one job. All right. Good luck with the Steelers. Good luck with the Eagles. I wish myself luck with the Patriots. I wish you luck as well, Bill.

2:30:21I hope we're all surviving for at least a couple rounds. Thanks for popping on. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Goldsberry. Thanks to CR and Craig. Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo. Don't forget, live Bill Simmons podcast, Wednesday, February 11th, theringer.com slash events. Yeah, we're going to do this. I have no idea who's going to be on it, but it'll be entertaining. And I have new podcasts coming on Thursday as well. We'll be breaking down all the football stuff, try to change my picking luck, see if we can throw a couple of wrinkles in. I will see you on Thursday.

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