Part 1: Detroit’s Comeback, Philly’s Resurrection, and Celtics Questions With Zach Lowe

26:47Bill Simmons:If they had lost, they could have played Lakers-Houston and that was where seeds matter. I think you could look at this season and be like, you know what? None of the seeds really mattered at all except who's going to have Game 7, Thunder, Spurs because that's going to be the only series that really ultimately matters, right? Other than that, put anyone in any seed and we probably would have had competitive series with any of the other 14 teams for the most part. And I'm just wondering like the Celtics, if they had to do this over again, how much of the stuff would they have done differently knowing what they know now?

27:19Well, what's stuff? Like just lighten the load on Derek White so he's not whatever happened, worn out or whatever the hell happened to him in this series?

27:26Bill Simmons:Derek White, 10 less games, 300 less minutes. Jalen, eight less games, 400 less minutes. Tatum, 30 minute max the entire time. And that's, I mean, I've been saying this on the pod for weeks now. So putting the minutes on Tatum like they did, I feel like that caused the injury. I'm always going to feel that way. It made no sense to me as they were doing it. Him playing 43 minutes in one game and 40 in another in the playoffs, I just thought was insane. Don't you think part of that, there had to have been some sports science behind that. If we're going to actually ramp him up for big playoff minutes, we got to ramp him up in the regular season.

28:03We have to sort of give him heavier minutes loads than you would expect.

28:07Bill Simmons:But did you see his quotes today, though? about his quotes today were basically like yeah my right leg's not as strong as my left leg yet you figured this was gonna happen like he had there was one quote in there that made me wonder like damn um this is what he said it was just unfortunate timing but i guess a little bit to be expected right i was away for 10 months and then i came back and i'm playing every other day i was playing 36 to 40 minutes so it's not unusual that something would come up um it was inevitable at some point I was going to have to deal with something that kind of came at the worst possible time.

28:40Bill Simmons:Was it inevitable? Shouldn't they have just played this 20, 30 minutes? Like look at how the Spurs have treated Wembenyama basically his whole career, but especially this year. Like they've been adamant about not trying to put too many miles on him. And conversely, like I look at Denver and I know Joker had to make the all NBA run, which probably in retrospect was a bad idea. Um, but they're just putting all, all these miles on Yoko Jumuri, who immediately, you know, looked like they ran out of gas in the first round. So would you rethink how you how you treat the playoffs versus the regular season just holistically from what we're watching right now?

29:16First of all, this entire conversation is music to Adam Silver's ears. How can we make the regular season matter even less and seem less relevant for like an unending slog of six months of games? Like, yeah, please let's have more teams think this way. There need to be fewer games. We know there need to be fewer games. Everybody knows and agrees there need to be fewer games.

29:35Bill Simmons:But we know that's not happening. No, no one is actually willing to make whatever sacrifices necessary to do that. So then we're stuck in this situation where, yeah, the playoffs are a completely different game than the regular season. Different types of players have different kinds of playoff experiences than in the regular season, like the 16-game versus 82 kind of players that Draymond Green famously said a few years ago. And the gap is getting bigger. Kirk Goldsberry wrote about this for the Ringer last week. The gap in style between the regular season and the playoffs is just getting wider and wider to the point that they are the same sport, but very different versions of it.

30:10And, I mean, sure, ideally, you would, if you could just know, I'm going to be a top six seed, so at least I'm not in the play-in tournament. Because you can't risk that, no matter what, you can't risk.

30:23Bill Simmons:I don't know, Philly risked it. Philly got, what, 30 games out of Embiid? How many did he actually play? He played... Some amount of Embiid games. 38 games. Paul George took a 25-month suspension vacation for whatever he did and came back and looked better than ever and looked like 2021 Paul George. The only people they put real minutes on the whole season were Maxie and Edgecombe. Maxie played a lot of minutes. He ended up only playing 70 games, but he played 38 minutes a game. He led the league. Vijay was a rookie, played 35, but that's young legs. but none of it mattered because for five games in the playoffs they had their team it's it's really just shocking how quickly philly just materialized like oh this is the dream philadelphia 76ers team that we never thought we would see and like oh my god here it is like joel and beat is firing behind the back passes to kelly uber who's dunking and everyone's going crazy and tyrese maxi He's roasting everyone.

31:22Bill Simmons:Yeah, but even in real time, people still weren't believing it when it was happening. The Celtics were, I think, minus 2 ,200 after game four. Even after they lost game five, they were minus 1 ,100, which House and I were both like, whoa, that seems crazy. And then in game seven, without Tatum, they were six and a half point favorites, the Celtics. I thought that was going to be a 50-50 game. I didn't think anybody should be favored. I was shocked by that, but nobody believed in Philly until they did it. I mean, we all have Philly fans in our lives. We have some at the Ringer and Spotify. I have just random, I've had random Philly fans that I have not heard from in months reach out in the last 48 hours.

32:01They're just as shocked as everybody else. The ones that are reaching out to me are like, I can't, I'm just walking around with a big grin on my face. I can't even believe what's just happened. I'm in shock is a word that multiple of them use. They just, even they are like, this happened? Like this team just suddenly clicked into place like this? I can't believe it.

32:20Bill Simmons:It was incredible to watch as it was happening. Game two, I just thought the Celtics played like crap and Philly made some threes. I wasn't alarmed. But game five, I was alarmed and talked about it in the pod after. Game six was equally alarming. You look at the last second half of game five, game six, game seven. Philly basically dominated those three games. I mean, they were up, I think, 15 plus in all the games. The Celtics never really had a lead ever. always felt like they were playing come from behind basketball. And there's a few things I'm shocked by.

32:56One was just how kind of competent Embiid looked.

33:00Bill Simmons:Like he wasn't doing, we've seen him come back from not playing and he falls down a lot. And you always think like the next one, like he was, I thought, pretty good. That was about as good as you're going to get from him. Defensively, like protecting the glass. some of his passing i thought i just thought he played well i was really surprised by that right he was outstanding on both on both offensively especially defensively it can come and go for him a little bit but he was moving around a lot very well in games five and six game seven was good enough and offensively he was absolutely brilliant in that game and paul george you know who i guess was sick in game seven but paul george just was the equal of of brown and tatum on a lot of these minutes and quarters, you know, game seven, maybe not as much, but that one was shocking.

33:46Bill Simmons:Kelly Oubre's defense, which I was like, ah, he's, he's not bad. He gives a honest effort. Like he was invaluable. Um, and, and then, you know, just riding Maxie, the one thing you could have predicted, and we did our most intriguing players draft. And I think I took Maxie as my leap guy. Cause I was like, this is fits the profile of if somebody was going to make the massive leap. He kind of checks a lot of those boxes. He was awesome. And if you think about the next series, them versus the Knicks, if they win, it'll be because he's the best player in the series, which sounds stupid and cliche, but that's usually the best player usually wins the series.

34:27Bill Simmons:And they would need him to just go nuts in the series, I think. I think the Knicks can throw some stuff in a bead. I don't know if Paul George can do that again. Edgecombe, one game, you had that stat, what was he, 0 for 16 in the losses from threes? That wasn't me, but yeah, it was something like that. It swings hard with Vijay's three-point shot. Yeah, he's trick-or-treat from three, which is fine. But I'll tell you what's never trick-or-treat with him. Absolutely fearless and is just unafraid of any of these big moments. Wants the ball. And in transition, for a guard who's not huge, he has just meteorically risen into, like, he's one of the five most terrifying players in transition in the entire league.

35:06It doesn't even matter if somebody's back, if that guy's bigger than him. If he's got a head of steam, he's going to finish over you and there's just nothing you can do about it.

35:14Bill Simmons:Yeah, it reminds me of some of the all-time great transition guards we've had that you knew in the first year, like Rose and Westbrook were both like this. Westbrook just taking over like, Jesus. Shout out like a cannon. I thought Nick Nurse was awesome in this series and conversely, I thought Mazzola was bad and we can talk about that now hour later. I was going to say, I've been waiting to hear you weigh in on whatever. I thought Missoula was incredible in the regular season. It was honestly, I voted for him for coach of the year. I thought he was incredible. I would have too. And I don't know what they were thinking with this playoffs.

35:50Bill Simmons:I have so many questions and look, did Philly win this series or did Boston blow it? I think the answer is both. They went back to their 2024 style without the same players. is my biggest issue. They slowed it down. They didn't play with pace. They gave up on their bench. And I was saying it on the podcast at the time. I didn't really understand it. It was interesting. Jalen, after the game yesterday, was like, I actually liked how we played. I thought we looked like us. Like, that's who we were all season. That's kind of how I felt. They gave up on the bench until they started half of it in the most important game of the season.

36:29I know.

36:30Bill Simmons:Well, that almost seemed like symbolic for Joe, like, just to say, I screwed up. I did this wrong. But the problem is, so you have two different problems. One is you do the Simons for Vucevic trade to get under the luxury tax, which I get. And I understand all the benefits for that. But my dad, who is the most bitter I've ever heard him after a playoff series loss, I was going to have him on the podcast today. And he's so mad about the series that I decided not to have him because he was just furious at everybody. And after the game, he was like, I was going to go up to Chisholm and congratulate him for getting under the luxury tax.

37:02Bill Simmons:Like just furious. because not only do you not have Simons, who I think would have had at least a couple real moments in the series and would have mattered. He got injured, but who knows what would have happened. Well, did he get injured? I don't know. He had like a lottery injury. But then you bring Vucevic in, so you have that swing. And I just felt, this is my honest feeling. I think Missoula treated this series like, let's figure out what we have for when we play the Knicks and the Pistons than whoever comes out of the West. I'm going to use this as my litmus test series. I'm going to see what I have with Vucevic.

37:38Bill Simmons:I'm going to shorten my rotations. I'm going to try to do the 2024 thing again. And they just got away from what succeeded for them. The bench was the superpower of this team. It was guys like Hugo and Walsh coming in and being maniacs for five, six minutes. And he just punted on it. And then in a game seven, it's like, hey, Shireman, can you go back to being awesome like you were the last two months of the season? It's like, you've been yanking me around. Of course, he went in zero points in game seven. This guy was a real asset down the stretch. So I just, I really think Missoula screwed the series up, but I'm always going to think that.

38:11I was going to say, if he was in the lab experimenting in preparation for the next rounds, what was the game seven experiment? Was that like me melting things on the Bunsen burner in ninth grade chemistry class? Just like throwing a pen cap on it. Oh, look, it's melting. What experiment was taking place?

38:27Bill Simmons:That was an admission of I screwed up. I need to ride with my bench guys in the crowd. Listen, Garza starting is totally explainable to me because they're trying not to get Kata in foul trouble, right? And they're trying to move Kata, more of Kata's minutes against Drummond. Like, I get it. Hopefully Garza can hit. He was great on those threes at the top of the arc. Missed a couple and we never saw him again. And Shireman should have started for Tatum. And even though he was getting yanked around all series, that's who I thought was going to start. The Ron Harper thing did catch my attention. that one was like huh because he just hadn't played that is a fantastic against it i wasn't against it but i was like oh okay and i think they put him in an unfair spot which is another thing you have to think about um i probably would have just started walsh and been okay but this is goes to the bigger thing of like you're playing tatum and brown these big minutes in the first six games and you're not giving those minutes to the bench guys.

39:28Bill Simmons:So then when you actually need the bench guys, you're basically throwing them in cold. I just don't get it. Walsh playing only five minutes is pretty surprising. And I know he's not going to be guarded on the perimeter, although he shot okay this year. But defensively, he was far and away their best option on Maxie from the start of the season until now. And it's just like, if you're going to play, if you're going to juggle it up and play all these random dudes, it seems weird to me that you know, falling through the cracks is the one guy who's actually guarding Maxie pretty well. And Jalen Brown - Who done a great job against him during the season.

40:00Bill Simmons:Really, really effective. And Jalen Brown took the assignment in game seven and was like, fine. But there was just nothing that they - I mean, in the end, maybe it wouldn't have mattered. Maxie was just too brilliant and too multifaceted and offensive player for whatever they threw at him. But just the whole game was just starting with Tatum being not on the injury report, to questionable to out to the starting five to them falling behind early, coming back late. And just the whole game was just very weird. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Upsets, buzzer beaters, game-changing plays, what happens on the court keeps us on our toes.

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42:32Bill Simmons:And it was the other leg. And this is what always happens when these people have these traumatic injuries to one leg, you know, favoring the other leg. And it's always a concern because you're putting more stress on it. and they played him too many minutes. I mean, the big thing for me is I don't think they were beating San Antonio or OKC. So it's not like, oh, we blew the title. It's more like, I just know if we did this, if you just reset buttoned this and went back two weeks and you basically have to win those first two games, you had a feeling Embiid was going to come back midway through the series.

43:07Bill Simmons:But the way they played game two with all the threes, just letting Maxi and Edgecombe do whatever they wanted, and then game five was, you know, even worse. But I just, I know they would have tried to mix that up, use the bigger bench. Like even what Minnesota did against Murray, let's put some miles on Murray. Let's make them dribble the ball up 94 feet. You know, I know Maxey is the minutes leader in the league, but at least like they just made it so easy for him. I felt like he was going downhill, like a running back for two straight weeks, right? I, by the way, I don't know how much we're going to talk about it because it starts tomorrow, but Anthony Edwards was just upgraded to questionable for game one of that series.

43:42You mentioned Minnesota and Timberwolves said he's cleared for all basketball activities, on-court activities and upgraded to questionable. The DiVincenzo injury is heartbreaking. It always sucks and he's a big part of their team. I can't wait for that series. If Ant is like a full go and is, you know, the last couple of games he played against Denver, he did not look like himself. He was not assertive. He was not explosive. If he's closer to himself, I mean, he's already had a 50-point game against them this year. The idea of him trying to dunk on Wemby by itself is just beyond intoxicating. You got the French center battled.

44:18There's a lot to love about this matchup that we haven't really gotten to sink our teeth into because we just didn't know who was going to be left of the Minnesota Timberwolves. And by the way, kudos for the Minnesota Timberwolves you've talked about already for finding a way to win that series against the Nuggets without so many guys. That was an awesome, awesome effort by them.

44:37Bill Simmons:Yeah, and that's the thing. They they figured it out. They, they zagged a little bit. They tried to do some different things. Like the Terrence Shannon thing was incredible in the, like just not only just playing him, but unleashing him and just saying, go attack Jamal Murray. His legs are dead. Uh, and conversely with the Celts, Missoula was so good during the season. And I just didn't see the ingenuity in the same way. It really felt like he was trying to replicate 24. And I can't say this strongly enough, this was not the same. This was always supposed to be a transition year in the next year to get under the tax.

45:10Bill Simmons:And instead of Porzingis and Drew Holiday and Horford, you have guys that just aren't as good and aren't as experienced on the team and you weren't going to be able to replicate it. So I think that superpower for this team was the bench and the unpredictability and the wildcard nature of just these guys that would have these weird heat checks. It was happening all year and it's just they went away from it i i said it last night um on my reaction pod with pina it just felt like the sixers and the celtics like swapped arcs in in astonishingly fast fashion and that the sixers became the team that they were always able to be on paper but never would be in reality and then they became it and the celtics became the team that i was low on before the season and look so foolish for being low on because they had shed so much talent, because there was so much uncertainty about their big man rotation.

46:04And all those concerns just were completely invalid until they were immediately valid at the most pressing possible time. I wish you, how many years has your dad been a season ticket holder? 54. Absolutely furious. If you've been a season ticket holder for 54 years, you can absolutely go up to Bill Chisholm and sarcastically congratulate him on ducking all the aprons you can give him you can gift him an apron you should have bought him an apron with like congratulations we lost in the first round here's your apron go barbecue with this

46:38Bill Simmons:the only way to defend it is did they know Tatum was going to look like he did they hoped he was going to look a lot like it but they didn't know when they did that move because they also didn't have to do it they thought Tatum was going to replace to Simon's minutes, but they really miscouted Vucevic, it seems like, because he just was done. You could see it. The moment he showed up on the team, didn't look right. Got hurt, came back, didn't look right. Came in the playoffs, was clearly a disaster matchup against any Philadelphia big man, basically. But especially when Embiid came back, they had to see two more games that that wasn't going to work with him versus Embiid.

47:17Bill Simmons:And that was their big move. They could have, I guess that if you're going to criticize them, then they maybe could have flipped Vucevic for something else. But, you know, I think they thought he was going to help. Like, I really do. And it was just a misfire. And the Tatum, you mentioned the Tatum comments today about, you know, it was inevitable something would happen. I remember saying, like, I'm a little hesitant to crown Boston as the favorites because I just, I remember making this gesture of ups and downs. There's going to be ups and downs with Tatum recovering from this injury. And there just weren't any.

47:50And I just sort of let myself believe, and I think everybody else did, that there would, I guess this is just a medical marvel. There are not going to be any downs. He's playing a ton of minutes. He's playing awesome. They've been the best team in the East. And then at the worst possible time there was, we don't really even know what happened, when it happened, what the injury is.

48:10Bill Simmons:I just don't believe it was the knee either. I know they had to say that, but it was during the game. You could see it was his calf, and they had the stuff wrapped around his calf. and you know I think he it was unclear whether he was cleared to play or not I thought his his words were interesting about him and his trainer decided not to play so clearly um they didn't feel comfortable with it and I don't think they should have I don't think it was worth it they weren't going to win the title this year let him go but to find out after the season that his right leg was only 85 percent of his left leg or whatever or that like didn't have the he's not going to be able to build the calf up fully until you know the summer so that's well why were you playing 42 minutes a game then?

48:49The whole thing is a little bit, a little bit strange, but Philly went and took the series from them. And this is, I mean, the conversation I really want to have with you is like, so what now? Like, you're not like, like, I don't know. I just would say what, what now for the Celtics?

49:08Bill Simmons:Well, first they have to go to the doctor and see if they can find a cure for, we got great looks disease. because that's been three of the last four playoffs of losing a game and then talking about how great the looks were after. And by the way, the looks were great because they were coming back at the end. They got four straight awesome shots and they missed all of them. And that's why they lost. So this was always my, and I would go back and forth playfully with Mike Budenholzer about it. It was my thing with every Budenholzer team that would be eliminated from the playoffs. It was like, well, we just, the shooting luck went against us.

49:39And it was why I would always make fun of the Celtics. Like, well, congratulations. You can hang the banner for like, expected effective field goal percentage champions of 2026.

49:48Bill Simmons:This is Daryl More with the Rockets too. Same thing. You have four. It's great that you had an unbelievable expected effective field goal percentage. It's awesome. That's a wonderful process. And yeah, you just missed. Well, all you got to do is just miss three times in seven games and then have another game where the team outplays you substantially or whatever. And then your season is over. It's not a hundred game series. It's like a very finite amount of time. And if this thing isn't working, the right answer isn't always just keep doing the thing until it works. You got to have some other thing.

50:21I mean, this has been my thing with Boston forever. It doesn't it's they want a title. The fact is they want a title. They have a great core. I'm not sure what, if anything, they can really do in the offseason.

50:31Bill Simmons:Pritchard let them down in this series, too, other than his one game for some great game for great green for. And other than that, I forget. Hold on. I'm going to queue up his stats. he just wasn't good enough in the series. And the shot that killed me, Jalen missed a couple. Hauser had one around the rim, but the one that killed me was two minutes left. Kata makes a great play at the rim. Comes back down. Kata's running the floor and Bede's jogging back. Kata's outrunning him. Brown, it would have been a tough pass to him. There's some Celtic fans today that were like, oh, Jalen missed Kata. The ball ended up in the right spot.

51:08Bill Simmons:It was Pritchard in the corner, wide open, to take a lead. And he missed it. And I would take that shot a hundred times out of a hundred. And if they, if he makes that shot, I honestly think they win. Did the crowd. My dad said the crowd was as loud as any crowd they've had for a playoff game during the, during the comeback. Like he was like, the energy was electric. It was, we could not get over the hump and all we needed was that one shot and it just never went in. But I would have taken my chances with that shot. You know, I would have bet my life he was going to make that shot. That's why sports are so cool.

51:40And I know it's not a great day for Boston fans but I've seen that game so many times in my head and in my life and what happens is that shot goes in the crowd goes bananas and a team on the other end with a history of postseason letdowns and hiccups just sort of melts down a little bit and the game peters out and the Celtics win in in your soul and my soul like when that shot goes up that's what I'm envisioning and it went completely the other way not only did the shot miss but Philly and Maxi in particular play yeah but he like rose up under that kind of pressure in a hostile environment and put the game to bed and it was just like a very against script kind of ending

52:25Bill Simmons:even in the bar it was a oh it was like one of the so I can't even imagine what it was like to be there. Well, PG and Maxey from three were 45 for 95. Wow. I don't know if that's replicable against the Knicks. There's a whole bunch of reasons the Knicks are a better matchup than the Celtics were. Embiid in those four games was in the game seven, he was 28-9 and seven. He missed 150 regular season games in the last three years. and magically turn back into Joe Embiid at the worst possible time for the Celtics. I was thinking about it. I saw the Sixers play two games during the season that I thought made them intriguing as a dark horse.

53:15Bill Simmons:One was against the Celtics, and then Embiid got hurt right after that, I think. Then there was another one. I want to say it was against maybe the Knicks on a Saturday or maybe the game, somewhere around that range when they played the Knicks and were really going toe-to-toe with them. and I was just like, man, there really is a ceiling with this team. But we all do that, right? I know, but think about it. They played six good games all year, probably, and they're in round two now. There's a reason that we just never thought we would see the apex version of this team for any prolonged period of time.

53:45And by the way, we still have to see it for a prolonged period of time because now it gets every other day for the rest of the way. And obviously, this is a pretty soft travel schedule for them. Philly, New York is an easy trip and all that. But the stat I will keep just hammering about and always Maxie, always Maxie. And in this series, Embiid is, those two combined for all the heavy lifting they do on offense, 3.3 combined turnovers per game. Two per game for Embiid, who's had a history of like bad turnover games in the playoffs. And 1.3 for Maxie. And Maxie never turns the ball over. It's one of his secret superpowers.

54:18He just never turns it over. And like, that's a, that's an astonishingly low number for those two guys combined.

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55:03Bill Simmons:Like when an unknown player comes out of nowhere and tears through the league with a dominant scoring streak. Well, the glycerin flex from Brooks is that phenomenon in shoe form. It provides a flexible cushion ride that's made to move with you. With a breathable upper, your shoe feels like a distraction-free second skin. It's the ultimate blend between human movement and tech. So if you want to feel the best parts of your run, flex the rules, the new Glycerin Flex. Shop the Glycerin Flex at brooksrunning.com. Where is Maxie for you now and the best players in the league list? I'm just going to read you the best players.

55:38Well, I had him on All-NBA, third-team All-NBA. I'm going to read you

55:42Bill Simmons:right now. You wouldn't put him over Joker, SJR, Wemby, so let's cross them off. Feels premature. No, I mean right now. Yeah, I know. No, yeah. It would feel premature to put him over those guys. You wouldn't put him over Luca? No.

56:02Bill Simmons:Would you put him over Ant, healthy? No. All right, so there's six. Would you put him over Cade? Now that's kind of an argument. Yeah, you get into this morass of like Brunson, Mitchell, Cade. You know, Curry is still in there. And it's just a bunch of guards that are just depending on your taste, depending on the week. He might have a case, yeah. So he might have a case to be the number one guy in that. So that's the seventh spot unless you want to put Giannis over all of those guys. I think Giannis still belongs over all of those guys. And I definitely remember Ringer 100 doing it every month.

56:36There was a... He was around like 10, 11, 12 a lot for me during the season. I don't know where I had him on my latest one, but I definitely remember one in particular when I moved him up like very early in the season from like 19 to 11. And it felt like, yeah, he's that's about where he is right now so this goes back to one of my favorite dumb topics

56:58Bill Simmons:the all-time aberration 2020 covid draft just zooms and maybe some illegal workouts with guys wearing masks on where edwards goes first and then wiseman goes second off of three college games lamello third it goes patrick williams isaac Gokoro, 4-5. Killinghays is 7. Denny is 9. It's a great pick. Caliburton is 12. Denny must be doing great for the Wizards these days. It was a great pick by the Wizards at number 9. Yeah, they get credit for that. Your guy Poku is 17. Wait a second. My guy Poku? Your guy Poku. How did that happen? And then listen to the 20s. Tyrese Maxey, 21. Yeah. Quickly, 25.

57:46Bill Simmons:Pritchard, 26. Jaden McDaniels, 28. Bain 30. We're going to have to do a redraft of this draft this summer for fun. This is a fucking bonkers draft. How does this happen? You're just leaving out so many guys who are in the 20s. Leandro Balmaro, I literally don't even remember him. It seems like he played 49 games, whoever he was. I just have no memory of him doing anything in the NBA. Not one thing. All Raptors fans know this draft well because they picked Malachi Flynn one spot ahead of Desmond Bain. Well, a pick traded by the Boston Celtics. And then the second round is just pretty much a train wreck.

58:28Bill Simmons:It's Sam Merrill at 60. I didn't know. I forgot Sam Merrill was Mr. Irrelevant. That's right. Isaiah Joe's in there. Vic Kretchy. But yeah, just the 20s of that draft. Getting Tyrese Maxey. So this, you know, my guy Daryl. I think not only saved this job with this series, but I think you got to look back at like Maxie, the Edgecombe pick, the Paul George, even though Embiid and Paul George were one and two in the worst contracts draft. Now that's looking better. I think Daryl sticks around now. Oh, that's one of the ripple effects I meant to mention last night is I think Nurse and Maury both have six clubs there.

59:09But the crazy thing about Maxie and Edgecombe is the Sixers were very, very close to getting neither of those guys. It took a Mike Muscala avalanche of threes on the last day of the season to flip that maxi pick into Philadelphia's possession. I forgot about that. And then at the lottery last year, it looked like they were going to give their pick to Oklahoma City, and then they moved up to number three and got Edgecombe. So this is what it turns on sometimes. It's multiple sliding doors within sliding doors.

59:43Bill Simmons:well as we discuss those sliding doors

59:48Bill Simmons:is Jalen on the Celtics next year why did it take you so long to get here this is the most exciting moment of the podcast we're going to wrap up here and then go watch this other game and come back for part two so tell me the rationale tell me the rationale Now, do you want, if, if, if, are you trading him to just reset the finances, restock the assets and go to Jason Tatum and Derek White and be like, I know we just won 57 games or whatever. That was supposed to be the gap year. This is going to signal to you that this might actually be the gap year. Or are you trying for some sort of three for one that fits better?

1:00:31One for one that fits better.

1:00:33Bill Simmons:And like, can you get younger in the trade with a cheaper guy in the spot? Are you going for it next year or are you taking a step back next year? Oh, I think you're going for it next year. So then I don't know what... I'm on the record as I want Jalen Brown to play his entire crew at the Celtics. I get in arguments about him. I hate the stupid plus minus thing that goes around with him. And people are like, look, at the moment he comes out, they're way better. It didn't happen yesterday. I just like Jalen Brown. I think he plays hard and he's durable. And I think he's aged about as well as you could expect from a 10-year forward in the league.

1:01:07Bill Simmons:this would be the time to trade them right now because 57, 61, and 65 the next three years money-wise. Tatum's 58, 62, and 67. And if you're going to make a case to trade them, it's like, can you just afford two guys making that much money? So I have not sat - And you've won a title with them. I have not sat and played around with the Jalen Brown trade machine. I suspect that you have, and you might have some ideas. I don't know, though. I mean - I haven't either, and I haven't really wanted to do it. And also the loss just happened yesterday. but I in my head it's something like well there there's is is the Giannis move which I think they would be one of the contenders for Giannis and I think Jalen as an asset that either goes back to Milwaukee or goes to a third team and then that team gives their stuff to Milwaukee would be how that trade goes like a team like Atlanta where he's from a team that that controls um this Milwaukee situation with their pick this year.

1:02:04Bill Simmons:So it's something like that. They could get super creative because they have this 27.7 million trade exception where you could take somebody back on a team that has cap space, like a Dyson Daniels, where you just take that back with Atlantis pick, put Daniels into the trade exception, trade Jalen, and now you have a Max Player trade exception. They'd have like the biggest trade exception of all time and see what you can do with that. Or you look at a team like New Orleans and could you just go Trey Murphy, Herb Jones in a contract, Trey Murphy, Jordan Poole in a pick, something like that where you're carrying the Poole contract for a year, it's an expiring, but you've reset around a cheaper Jalen Brown, basically.

1:02:46Bill Simmons:That would be the mindset. I hope they keep them together. I'm just going to say that again and I'm going to keep saying it. But I would understand if these are the kind of discussions they're having in dark, depressing rooms right now. yeah i i again having not gone through it those two teams just i'm looking at the standings over here just jumped in jumped into my head i mean i was trying to think like rockets flame out is there something there but i don't know what the trade would be um you know i didn't think i didn't think of the pelicans actually that you kind of surprised me with that one in terms of like but it's interesting um yeah there's a lot and i'm sure this will be a podcast topic at some point but Utah's another one.

1:03:25Bill Simmons:Like Utah. They just did a lot of stuff though. They just, they just made some big, some big moves. Yeah. But what about, I mean, well, how about, can I give you another version of this scenario? Sure. What if Jalen Brown goes to the team and says, it's time. I want my own team. Why? Why? Is it, this is just, are you, is that, are you coping? Is this coping? this is coping. It's, it's been a dark 24 hours. Then I applaud your, you know. We've seen weirder things in the NBA than Jalen Brown deciding, I'd like my own team now. You know, I just, something just popped, a team that just popped in my head and we're about to go watch their game is like, if it's just a disaster Cleveland loss in this game, you know, this is a team that just hasn't been able to fill a wing spot with a player like that.

1:04:11But he just, it's just hard. His contract is so big and I don't know what they'll be thinking, but we'll see. We get, maybe Cleveland will win by 30 and then would they be favored in the next round? over Detroit. I have no idea, but that would be, that series is going to be wild either way, whoever it is.

1:04:28Bill Simmons:I vote for keeping them together because we've already seen them win a title. It did happen. Um, and I think that they can improve around the edges with this team, especially with the trade exception. I think Hauser probably like, if we're going realistic, I think Hauser gets traded because you can, he's 10, 11 and 12. You can, I think a lot of teams could use somebody like him and you could just move shireman and hugo into those minutes right and then that 27.7 i think you can get somebody good with that and i think they'd want to bring simons back simons is a free agent they have their mid-level to use i could see him coming back i thought they were a guard short this whole season anyway um so i think getting a guard and figure out another big man to put with kata would be the two things i would look at but who knows i this is the NBA.

1:05:16Bill Simmons:We're prepared for anything at all times. And if Giannis is actually on the table and says at some point, like, I'd love to go to Boston and play with Jason Tatum, like, they're going to try to have conversations about that. They just lost in round one. I feel the same way about Denver. Like, Sean said today on ESPN, everyone's on the table for Denver except Jokic. They're accepting calls. And like, that's how they should feel. They lost in round one with one of the best players of this century, and they should be thinking that way yeah that was kind of a no shit moment but yeah yeah obviously but um no but that's significant that they said every player's on the table yeah because what's that means jamal murray is on the table and aaron gordon's on the table what's unsaid is jamal murray i mean aaron gordon the aaron gordon thing is just we've unfortunately reached a point at which i i if i'm building the nuggets i have to now if i were building nuggets i would see all the medical records i would know everything.

1:06:13But from the outside looking in, I just can't assume he'll stay healthy for an entire playoffs ever, ever again. The leg stuff just crops up over and over again. I don't really know what to do with that because they're just not close to the same team without him.

1:06:26Bill Simmons:It goes back to what I asked you 20 minutes ago. Maybe your goal is just to get him healthy in April, May, June, and you're treating him like a car in the garage that you just take out for a spin once a week. But can you even do that? I don't know. You can find the sports science people on lots of teams. I know a lot of them who will tell you like that actually there are sports science guys who will say the players aren't playing enough because it does them a disservice to try to ramp them up to like, OK, now we've been treating you with kid gloves all season. The playoffs are you're going to play 42 super hard minutes every single game for the rest of the way.

1:07:04Right. Even if you did that with Aaron Gordon, like I don't know that he would be able to stay healthy for a month straight even if you treated the regular season like a big a big nothing but anyway we're far afield and we have a game seven to another game seven coming up yeah so this is

1:07:17Bill Simmons:the end of part one we're gonna come back after toronto cleveland a game that i think already has had two shots and maybe a gin and tonic before it even started i'm prepared for anything in this game you opened this podcast by saying all the crazy stuff that has happened over the last five days and we forgot the rj barrett shot that hit the ceiling on the same goddamn rim as the kawaii shot from seven years ago like that was up there for a long long time and just it was halliburton shot but in toronto and in game six don't forget the play that led up to rj barrett evan mobley for some reason being thrown the ball even though he's the worst free throw shooter out there and seemed like got body checked from behind.

1:08:01Bill Simmons:I mean, we never saw the best possible replay of that, but all of a sudden, the ball is out of bounds, and it's Toronto's ball, and RJ Barrett, I didn't think it was going in. Did you? When it bounced straight up at this point... I'm just saying, when he was releasing it, did you think it was going in? No, but when it bounced on the rim, I'm now conditioned to be like, it could be perfect. It could be going right up and right down. I was actually not surprised when it went in, but yeah, When Scotty Barnes sort of stumbles in there and kicks it out, you're like, it's not really what they were looking for down one.

1:08:32And hey, boom, it goes in. And here we are, game seven.

1:08:35Bill Simmons:All right, we're going to watch game seven. And then we're going to come back for a part two. That will be a little shorter than this podcast. Thanks for letting me talk out the Celtics. Apologies to my dad for refusing out mine. We just scratched the surface. I think there's more. Well, unfortunately, we have many more podcasts coming. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well. And we will be back on Netflix. ironically, right after game seven. See you in a little bit.

1:09:06Bill Simmons:Must be 21 plus in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in president in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 888-79-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York for Louisiana. Call 877-770-7867.