The Bleakest NBA Team Situations (Next 5 Years) With Ryen Russillo

25:17Bill Simmons:Barnes, Ingram, Quickly, Barrett, and Pirtle? I would say I'd rather, the reason I picked them is I'd rather have worse talent and have more options the next two years. Right. Because I don't have any options with this. I like some of their young guys. Unless Barnes turns into a superstar. I like Grady Dick. I think he's a rotation guy. Murray Bowles. Can't speak. Murray Bowles. Murray Bowles. Walter, some people like. Agbaje had some moments. Agbaje's expensive too. But he had some moments. They have all their firsts. I had them third. My number one was Chicago. I stared at it. They still have this giddy RFA.

25:58This is your least favorite one. Yeah, here's why.

26:02Bill Simmons:Oh, wow. Okay. Let's do it. I don't love a single guy in their roster. Maybe Budzelis. Yeah, you like him. At gunpoint, I like Budzelis. Is he going to make it on an NBA team? I don't know. They have$85 million in expirings. this season, right? So you think like, oh, look out for the Bulls summer of 2026. They've just never been that team. We've never seen it. They didn't pay the luxury tax in forever. They have all their firsts. I didn't, yeah, it's a small market, big market team. I didn't like their first round pick this year. I don't know why they didn't make the Derrick Queen trade. The Red Sox are like, what's the issue?

26:39Bill Simmons:The Red Sox are like, I like what the Bulls are doing. I thought they should have made the Derrick Queen trade. Move back 11 spots. Get New Orleans' first round pick, But it all depends on which version of the Derrick Queen trade you were offered is I think what the lesson is. We'll never we'll never know the answer is like, yeah, we would have done that if we had known it was unprotected. But we'll see. We'll see. It'll be written in the books. Colby White's about to be a free agent. That scares me. Like what what is his next contract? That Patrick Williams and Okoro six, four for 72 for Williams, two for 22 for Okoro.

27:18Bill Simmons:They have some expirings, but I just don't know what this team is. Like what's, where am I going the next three years? I know I'm not going to be like a bottom five team next year. Maybe I'll get lucky and win the lottery, but it's just, it just seems bleak to me. Who am I selling to my fan? If I'm a Bulls fan, what am I excited about? My owners have already made it very clear to me. We're never going to really spend money. I don't think free agents are going to be like, man, I'd love to go to Chicago. They've done a shitty job with the Jordan legacy. where you never hear a player be like, I want to go to Chicago and reinvigorate the Bulls.

27:52Bill Simmons:That team really meant something. I just don't really know what this team is other than a team that's going to go 40 and 42 every year. So that's my number one pick. Yeah, this play-in stretch where they just lose to Miami every year. Yeah, great. You go through it and you're like, this is kind of the same thing over and over again. I think the Giddy trade will turn out to be a good trade for them. you know at the time they get killed they don't get a draft pick especially it's okc you know it works for okc perfectly yeah we defended him i think we're in the minority right but giddy was also like not super popular at the time either so it wasn't like there was going to be a bunch of people sticking up for him but yeah the rest of the roster i think at least the bezellas piece that's kind of what i would look for in this too is like there's there's some unknown that's exciting like i would give you points for that and at least bezellas is in that and Senge, if you like what you saw from him in the Bundesliga.

28:53Bill Simmons:Fran Fischella just going in on him. I really enjoyed. Did you see that? Every once in a while, Fran just goes nuts on the foreign players. He's like, here's a guy who quit on his team and played four minutes. I did think that was pretty shocking, man, that he would just bail. And then you would hurt. All of us had heard about it for like a week. I'm sure you heard about it too. And then no one had said anything. And everybody was like, is he really going to do this? Is he really going to go to the draft while his team is playing for championship? And it's like the reason he's coming to the draft is because clearly the team has told him, whichever team it is in the lottery, like we're taking you and it doesn't matter.

29:33They didn't care that he wasn't going to play. So I don't know.

29:37Bill Simmons:If you were a GM, would you make promises? Yeah, I think it's part of it. I know you probably think you wouldn't, but would you do promises with caveats? Well, what do you do if you make a promise to him at 12 and then Troy Weaver calls you and says, yo, we really want to move up. We'll give you 23 in our unprotected pick next year for number 12. And you're like, fuck, I made this promise to this French guy. I can't. I just wouldn't. I think that's the whole reason you don't do promises. because you never know and troy weaver is calling you with some fucking asinine trade that you have to accept yeah i mean that's why you could say hey you have a promise unless you know something comes down the pike but then i think most gms would tell you how many clients does the guy have right but what's but what's the upside of the promise that if you're worried that he's going to keep working out and then he'll move into the top 10 you won't be able to get him like you have to think the guy is incredible at that point.

30:40Bill Simmons:They'd have to think he's like a potential all-NBA guy and just lock in on somebody that far away from the job. I just wouldn't do it. I don't get the upside. I've heard about teams going back to the agent going, hey, something changed. Can we get out of the promise? And then the teams won't do it if the agent's going to lose his shit about it. I'm sure other stuff has happened. I'm sure there's millions of stories I haven't heard, but when And it was funny. There was a guy, there was a team that had a pick, but then their agents were saying that their guy was going there. So that was one of the rumors two weeks before the draft.

31:19It's like, hey, this guy has a lock. He's promised here. That's what everybody's saying. And then the pick got traded. So it was like, oh. Oh, Jesus. So either it was a conditional promise, kind of like what we're talking about here, or that guy was just full of shit the whole time and was trying to get people to maybe take the guy even higher than the slot. So it's all part of it.

31:41Bill Simmons:I have a little 45-second monologue for you about the Bulls. Good.

31:48Bill Simmons:So I wrote in a podcast about this in the early 2010s when the Warriors were for sale. I can't remember their owner. I think his name was like Chris Cohen. Wasn't that his name? The guy who sold. And he sold to Laco. And the price was high. and people was like 360 and people were like, oh my God, that's a lot. And I went all in on, I think that's a great deal. I think this is one of the best markets in the league. I think their fans really give a shit. And this has been a misused, under-owned asset that if the right ownership group comes in, they could really turn this into a major thing. You were there in Boston in the early 2000s with the Red Sox when it was just like, it was this misused, terribly owned asset that everybody thought like if somebody can come in and do this correctly, there's this amazing fan base ready to pay any amount of money and everyone will go to the games.

32:44Bill Simmons:Everyone's going to the games anyway. Like if the right ownership group figures this out, holy shit. I think the bulls are like that. I think this has been a criminally misused asset for really since Jordan left when instead of going for the seventh title, they said, oh no, we're going to rebuild. We're smarter than everybody. And from that moment on, all they did was cheap out. And basically, they're in the third biggest city. They're just cashing all this revenue that you get from being in Chicago. All these people, these generations of people that grew up on the Jordan's Bowls or remember the great days.

33:21Bill Simmons:And so they keep their tickets and just kind of wait for something good to happen. And nothing good is going to happen with these owners. and I just feel like if I was like a kajillionaire, that would be the team I would try to buy because if you can reignite that team and rebuild them and tap into the Jordan DNA and Pippen and the, you know, bring those guys back and give Jordan a ceremonial position and really like ignite it, I think that would be a really special franchise and right now it's not. I think it's the worst situation in the East. End of monologue. Agree with all of it. I do wonder what Jordan relationship would be because if he wanted to like hang out in the draft room on draft night and have input i'd be like hey mike we're not going to do this he's like let me tell you about the kwame brown night yeah we're like hey man you you can have all the gear in the world you know smoke some cigars right you're allowed to smoke inside you can have a golf cart wherever you want to go we just don't want a ton of input on draft night based on the uh just how about this here's five percent of the team, just go to some games and be an ambassador for us.

34:29Bill Simmons:But I think that's like a$7,$8 billion franchise just sitting there. Chicago is a massive city. Think about what's happened with the Cubs. Think about the Bears. Think about the fans. Think about the people we both know from Chicago. I just can't believe they're this mediocre every year. It makes no sense. So you're on record right now saying you would rather have every other roster situation in the east ahead of Chicago. Yeah, because I'm including the ownership situation. Yeah. I just don't. The only thing they have is the potential cap space a year from now. And I don't think they'll give a shit.

35:04Bill Simmons:So I have Chicago when you have Toronto number one, where'd you have Chicago in your rankings? Were they in top four? No, because. So who do you have second? Well, this is where it becomes kind of like a debate of, like, is Washington's most valuable asset right now, Trey Johnson? That seems a little weird. He's never played. And yet we both like everything they're doing. I like everything they're doing, but I mean, I wouldn't, still a lot of other rosters I would rather have. So you would rather have Chicago's roster and situation over Washington's roster and situation? Because I think, to me, no way.

35:51Bill Simmons:I think that's crazy. I would so much rather be Washington.

35:57Can we go through it? Yeah, there's just not a lot on the team, though. Like, you want to sell me on$110 million in expiring contracts next year? Yeah. Okay, but we just saw Brooklyn do that.

36:08Bill Simmons:Right, Middleton, Smart, Holmes, McCollum, Malenic, all expirings. They got Kispert on a decent contract. And they have a young nucleus of all guys I kind of like. Saar, I thought he looked a little Serge Ibaka-y last year. We both like Trey Johnson, at least. Worst case scenario, is an awesome heat check guy, right? The worst case scenario, he'll be 25 minutes a game, 16 points a game, 40 % from three. Bub Carrington, I think we both liked. Kim Whitmore, we both liked. Koulibaly, I feel like there's something there. I like Koulibaly and Bub probably more than any of the players that have played in games for them.

36:48Yeah. I do think they do have an edge to them. There's something kind of fun about them being young and not giving a shit or not knowing any better where you just would watch a random Washington game late in the season and be like, these guys are actually feeling themselves a little bit.

37:03Bill Simmons:They have all their firsts. They have a couple of good swaps. And the big thing, they have the 2030 with Phoenix. They can swap picks with Phoenix and cash in. And that might be a good one. So the draft pick situation is good. The salary cap for the first time, when has Washington had a good salary cap situation? I can't even think of it in the last 15 years. When they got Gilbert Arenas, was that 20 years ago? And I think the guys that run the team know what they're doing. I love the guys that run the team. But I do think when you're trying to gauge rosters going forward, like Sarr might actually not be good too.

37:48Would you allow that? I mean, is there a chance that Sarr is like, oh, that didn't really work, okay? And then what is Bub? And then is Koulibaly like an energy guy or is he a guy that you're like, is there one guy on this team, like the guy who may be getting you, tasked with getting you buckets at the end of a game where it's tight? granted cj could be there middleton whatever who's that on chicago then well i still think kobe white and vooch and and giddy yeah like there's just for next year though i well still like there's it was harder for me to go hey 110 and expiring contracts good draft capital coming in but the most valuable players a guy who just went six in the draft two weeks ago like that was hard for me to choose that.

38:31Yeah, that's fair. Over, like, I'm not telling you I love everybody on the Bulls either. We're in agreement, but I think there has to be something that's said, it's like, hey, there's a couple guys that are actually, like, good and have played multiple years on that team. Yeah. Would you rather have Washington's roster or the Nets roster?

38:49Bill Simmons:I had the Nets second on my list of situations I wouldn't want to have. And I know they have a bunch of fun picks. Um... They have, so they got Porter and Terrence Mann for$54 and$56 million combined next two years. Claxton's are one tradable asset. I don't really love a single young guy on this team. I don't even know if you ask me who my favorite net is. I don't know what my answer would be. I guess Nick Claxton. That seems like a weird favorite player. who would you have as the best Nets asset who's the one you're driving at home about thinking like that's our guy he'll be on the side of Barclays someday isn't it Cam Thomas' scoring I know you can't believe I just complimented Cam Thomas so they have all their firsts they have a top 8 2027 Philly pick they have three 9 future picks they have three Knicks first 27, 29 and 31 And the only bad thing is they have a swap with Houston in 27 where they lose the first.

40:04Bill Simmons:And one of the things about just throwing a season away, we just saw this happen in the lottery. It doesn't necessarily guarantee anything because they changed these lottery odds. You saw Utah and Washington throw seasons away and get the fifth and sixth picks. So when you hear about Brooklyn, they don't want to be good next year. I don't know if they realize that doesn't guarantee jack shit anymore. Cool, you'll get the fifth pick in the draft. I don't know. At some point, I'd rather have some combination of maybe some young building blocks, and I'm going to be bad anyway just because there's so many good teams in the league, or as much cap space as...

40:45Bill Simmons:They're like in no man's land. I don't understand what they did with all the cap space where they basically turned all of their cap space into Porter and Terrence Mann. I thought it was really stupid and lost Cam Johnson somehow. my guess is they canvassed it. That was the best they could do the unprotected, but I don't understand how they didn't get two assets because they did two things that helped the other team. So we're just saying the same thing over here again. Um, but the problem is they're coming off of using five first round draft picks. And there were a lot of teams that were like, if you were to say, Hey, you get five swings at it in this range.

41:23Like you would have never thought that you were going to come up with those five players. And who knows? there's plenty of stuff that's wrong with the draft but wind horse was even saying for wind horse to share that other gms were laughing right during the night at what the nets were doing so you combine all of this together it's like okay so you picked up a couple picks here but your starting five is yegor it's cam if he's healthy that's your backcourt who zire who they will have at small forward mpj power forward and and yeah claxton's like 20 million, it's declining contract, he's still young.

41:58That was kind of a weird thing because it seemed like they didn't really want to pay him, but they didn't want to lose the asset for nothing. And then it's just all of these other guys. Well, why not trade Claxton at this point?

42:07Bill Simmons:If you're down this far down the road, trade Claxton to the Lakers or whoever and try to pick up a couple more assets. I just think using cap space and Cam Johnson to end up with Porter and one pick was insane. That was my second, that was my number two roster situation I wouldn't want to be. So you had them third? No, I like Washington's situation better than the Nets. So let me, like if I'm doing this. So you have Brooklyn second. Yeah, so I'm going Toronto, Brooklyn. But this whole exercise as I was doing it, I was kind of like, well, this doesn't feel fair to Toronto if I'm qualifying like, hey, Chicago has a bunch of good, but I just don't like how expensive Toronto is for the next three years.

42:55Bill Simmons:We have no rules. It's just how you feel. This is a, how do I feel in my gut with these rosters? You think if the Nets called in some hypothetical and called the Wizards and said, you can have everything we have. We'll swap situations. Totally swap situations. Wizards are saying no 10 out of 10 times. Wizards hanging up. Okay. We agree. Okay. So I had Toronto third. I had one team ahead of Washington in the number four spot, and it surprised me. And I'm sure it's going to lead to some vitriol coming my way over the next 24 hours. Can't wait for that. Don't tell me you picked Miami. I did. No way!

43:35Bill Simmons:I did. I flirted with it, but I was like, I can't. And by the way, I like some of the things they did, but they had this hero extension coming that I'm just on pins and needles waiting to see how bad that contract is. I think, especially when you've seen these numbers drop, anything over, what, year one hero number, what number do you immediately start going like this? Like, 40? Yeah, I think north of 40, you're like, why do you have to do this? 39? Well, what are the numbers? Well, I'm just saying, year one of the hero extension, so if it's in the 37 range, you're feeling half decent. Let's say it's 37, 39, 41, 43, 45.

44:23Bill Simmons:That's basically 200 million bucks. Five years to 200. He could do a four-year 207. Like, I don't know. That's where you just go, no, or we don't have to do that. Like, thanks for the buckets, man. He's a really good scorer. You can't do that. No. That immediately would be a top five worst contract. And I like Haro, and I think he's a very fun offensive player, but that's, you can't. Bam's 37 this year, 51-55-59. Wiggins is 28-30. They just gave Mitchell, I was okay with that, 11-12 for the next two. They have Rozier as an expiring. Young players, Ware, Jaquez, Jakosunas, Jovic. The alarming thing is their 27 first goes to Charlotte.

45:12Bill Simmons:And that's just unprotected. that makes me nervous. And I think what really makes me nervous with this roster is I'm not sure if they pay Hero. I'm not sure how you get to the late 2020s with a move. And I know they've pulled a rabbit out of the hat. I'm always scared of the heat. Some of the shit they've done, like convincing Portland to take us on Whiteside, somehow ending up with Jimmy Butler, like getting LeBron and Bosh. Like they've been able to do it over the years. But at some point, the past is the past and the future is the future. I don't know how you go up a level with this roster.

45:51Bill Simmons:I don't know what the miracle move is. As much as I like Bam, there's probably a conversation about him being 51, 55, and 60 million. Like, is he that guy? And then you compare, like, that's where the hero extension seems even nastier. because I probably like Hero more now than I ever have because I think the shot making is that special, but it's pretty one-dimensional. And if there's not somebody else to hide him defensively, it's a disaster as we've seen in the last two playoff rounds. I mean, they got smoked against Cleveland. He was hunted, I think, as voraciously as any player in the East.

46:30And they did it with the Celtics in that matchup last year. um they had because they had to put the better defender on tatum ended up with jalen brown being guarded by hero you're like oh my god this is and you still had like some zombie heat stuff so if you're going 50 that's just a lot like 101 105 million with bam and hero is your is your top two guys and that kind of gets back to like hey we're not a friend you know depending on whatever team you are we're not afraid to spend but it's like how are you spending on your top three guys that's way too much for those two guys and I actually like both players

47:04Bill Simmons:but yeah it's a problem when I like Bam and Hero too but when you just levitate above it and you go alright where's my ceiling with Bam and Hero are my two best most expensive players what am I winning and the answer is nothing it's funny LeBron is in this situation right now in the Lakers LeBron like we talked about last week about those Rich Paul LeBron wants to compete for titles okay well you have a team that has luka donchich on it who's probably the best young offensive superstar that has come into the league that's a non-center in a long time and who's one of the best seven guys in the league you have role players you have a good coach you were a three seed last year you're not a title contender could part of that be that you're paying lebron 53 $3 million and he's 41 and you have to get nine months out of him.

47:57Bill Simmons:I think that's a piece of it. You know, so at some point, like, can you win a title if Luca LeBron and Reeves are your three best players and most of your salary cap. And LeBron seems to think maybe not, but he's part of part of the issue because of what they're paying them. And it's same thing with Miami. Like if you have Bam in here, I just don't know what the, what the ceiling is round two. yeah at best i mean that's why they were looking at durant although i guess they backed off on it this summer um then that wiggins deal that was being floated around for ruey and then all these other lakers pieces i'm like i'd rather have ruey than wiggins yeah i didn't understand what was that like ruey and vincent and some other stuff so anyway i have a connect that that poor kid just hasn't been able to unpack his bags for months.

48:51Bill Simmons:Yeah, he's in a Motel 8. So I have Miami 4th. Who else did you have in your top four? Did you put Charlotte in there? I put Charlotte in there. You know, they won 19 games last year. Third lowest in the league. They have a million players on the books, by the way, too. It is a shocking spot track. Yeah. It's like, whoa, I forgot they have Josh Green. Oh, there's Grant Williams. And so if you look at LaMelo, he's 38-41, 43-and-a-half, 46-and-a-half. He's played 105 games the last three years. And then with Mello, Bridges, Sexton's expiring, Josh Green, Grant Williams, Miller, they're all the next two years except for Sexton.

49:35And again, Miller's not an extension yet. So you could talk me into, hey, Miller's nice. You know, maybe they killed it in the drive with Knipple and getting back in at the end of the first round. but this Charlotte is in my top four as I would rather have Miami because at least if I'm paying Bam and Hero I'm paying I'm paying guys that I know are tops here but I like I don't think I have to worry about them where I think Mello is unless it changes and this isn't exactly new but I think the franchise is somewhat held hostage to somebody who was really dynamic and fun and a fan favorite and it's like all right we kind of have something here and it's like yeah but you may have something that's like a worthwhile attraction that is also getting in the way of who you can be as a basketball team and if i were running a team that that had to deal with that like that's the stuff where i just think it's like we're not making basketball decisions here we're making like entertainment decisions.

50:38Bill Simmons:But if Charlotte called Miami and said, we'll trade you Lamello for hero, I think Miami's cool. We'll call it in. Yeah, maybe. I mean, he doesn't, he misses a ton of games. So even if you love them. So, I mean, if, if you were Charlotte and they called Pat Riley and said, do you want our situation? I was going to ask you that. If Charlotte calls Pat Riley and said, we'll flip everything, every player we have and all the draft picks we have for your entire situation. I think Miami says yes. You do. I do. I think it's a better situation. I get LaMelo. I get Brandon Miller. I get Knipple. I get Bridges on a decent deal.

51:18Bill Simmons:Maybe that's the greatest guy. Sexton. I get all these picks. I get a Dallas first. I have some calf space. I think I'd rather have that situation. I think I talked about this on the pod with you already, but I really like all the stuff Charlotte did where they're basically like just these little slight upgrade deals. You know, like, all right, we'll help you out with Connaughton and you can take Meechich and buy him out and we'll take some stuff with that. But, you know, nothing major, but just kind of smart. Just seems like the boat's rowing in the right direction finally for them. Took a while.

51:53Bill Simmons:It only took the entire decade. All right, teams. I think it's a much smarter group and everybody would tell you. Front office owners and Charles Lee. So it was going to take a little while. for you to feel it. And, you know, I think the Lamella decision is a big one. We'll see. Maybe he's just healthy and plays well and there's more talent around him and it all kind of works out because that'd be cool too because there's a lot of people that love him down there. Two honorable mentions for me were Milwaukee and Indiana. And I'm not willing to panic about Indiana. I just think it's going to be one bad year for them, but they do have their first-round pick.

52:32Bill Simmons:They do have a bunch of guys on good contracts. They have a great coach. winning pedigree. Halbert should be back in a year and whatever. So Milwaukee, just quickly, because I think that didn't make the top five for me. And I'm already on the record as just how stupefied I was by the damn thing and everything they did. And it's interesting that the Bucks fans for the most part seem like they're fully supportive of what they did with Giannis. And I was trying, I was really trying to look at it from the other side because my my instincts on it were so against it. And I thought it was just so crazy because if you're going to do everything they did, but not lockdown.

53:16Bill Simmons:Oh, they did all this stuff. They now have no outs whatsoever, but now they're the second best team in the East. Like you could get it. They still have, I think the eighth best odds on Fando with the East. Eighth in the East. Eighth in the East. That's nuts. They're 20 to one in the East. So if you, so if you're going to do counters,

53:38Bill Simmons:I guess it looks like this Giannis doesn't want to go and they don't want to lose Giannis so they have a two year window with him and then he's got the player option so they're basically looking at it like these next two years this Dame thing fucked us we have to figure this out we don't want to trade Giannis what can we do so they save 14 million and 13 million for those first two years with the Dame Turner thing so you can be like okay, that's good. That's positive. We've saved money, even though we're paying out of our ass in the back way. Turner on paper is a good center for Giannis, right?

54:13Bill Simmons:Can shoot threes, shot wide. Their defense is going to be good. They really hurt the Pacers, which I think they hate the Pacers. So I'm sure that was like a fun thing for them. One thing I was thinking, and maybe I should have thought about this a few days ago, but I think we both think Turner would have been maybe a third. If you're talking about overpaying Turner, maybe it's 130 for four years i wouldn't have blinked if that was the number right i would have been like whoa that's high but i i kind of thought it was going to be around there so they get him like five million a year cheaper um the east is wide open and you mentioned this on the pod with bobby that with the cap jumping seven to ten percent every year maybe there is a little bit more of an nfl mentality where it's like all right we're going to lose 22 million a year, but the cap's going to go up.

55:01Bill Simmons:By the time we get to year five, maybe that's not that dangerous anyway. But the big thing is you did nothing, you throw away Giannis here. I really tried to see it from their side. I never would have done this, and I just want to make that clear again. But I understand they're so far all in that at this point, it's like, well, everyone's getting fired anyway. If this doesn't work out, we might as well try this. I still wouldn't have done it. Yeah. my first thing on it was like just knowing the Pacers because we had even mentioned this I think just in passing we didn't really dig into it but I was like I wonder if the Halliburton injury will be an excuse for that Pacers ownership group to then not pay the tax again even though they had flipped the 25 pick for the 26 you looked at be like hey that's a pretty smart kind of heady deal and it maybe means like they're going to go into the tax a little bit but I don't know how the revenue split breaks down because like even going in the tax a little bit then when you officially become a tax paying team i know back in the day it was like you're sacrificing millions um but you would have thought hey they can't do this right they can't just a week and a half after being eliminated in game seven of the finals they can't just let turner go and then the more i thought about it the more i i actually was like the only thing that impressed me about it was that turner and his reps were able to pull this off that they were able to find cap space for him that didn't exist right through the stretch revision because i i it reminds me a bit like i remember when the vooch trade was done to chicago and a front office guy who's really good we were talking about the trade and he said you know i just have i think a good rule is if you're giving up those kinds of assets and they're giving up two first right and they're giving up wendell and yeah that was that That was a lot to give up for Vuj.

56:49Bill Simmons:Window with two firsts. Yeah, right. So you're like, if you're going to do that kind of deal, you have to be able to say like, okay, we go from a first round exit to like a second round exit, or maybe, you know, we have the third best chance of being in the Eastern Conference Finals, right? We're not one, we're not two, but like, could we sit here and be realistic about it and say hey we'll be in the top three of of the east with this investment and it's like when you look at the vooch deal you go yeah we're probably the same team we're probably the same team ceiling wise of what we can be in the east in the playoffs despite you know vooch who puts up some numbers in theory stretches the floor and all that kind of stuff this deal felt like it reminded me of that where it's like okay what were we before and now what do we guarantee ourselves like how much is the ceiling actually improved even though turner's better than brooke lopez at this stage of their careers there's an argument yeah there's an argument to be made it's like you may not have guaranteed yourself advancing at all in the east and that's

57:59Bill Simmons:It's a tough one. I think the Dame thing, combined with the situation in the room with Giannis, they didn't have the luxury of what the Celtics did.

58:11Bill Simmons:When you look at their picks, which is the other piece of that, where they basically don't control any of their picks the next five years, they kind of don't have a choice at that point. Right. We're just like, well, what are we going to do? So hopefully Miles Turner is awesome for us. Hopefully we can patch together. I mean, if they got your guy CP for a year, not inconceivable. We'll see. Okay, we're going to take a break and then we're going to do the West. This episode is brought to you by Paramount+. The end of the summer can be sad, but then you remember what's coming. The best stretch of the sports calendar from September 8th through the 13th.

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59:24Bill Simmons:This season, the walls are closing in on Chad's biggest secret, and with his future on the field hanging in the balance, he'll have to win back the one coach who wants nothing to do with him. Watch the new season of Chad Powers, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus. For bundle subscribers, terms apply. This episode is brought to you by PayPal. We've seen some legendary athletes don the number four jersey. Now I can't name names, but you guys know who I'm talking about. In fact, if you look at my studio, there's a framed picture of one of my favorite number fours. He played hockey. Anyway, you know what else is game changing for?

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1:00:24Bill Simmons:NMLS 910457. All right, the West. The number one is a little easier in the West. I would assume we have the same number one. A team owned by the one, the only Matt Ishbia. Matt with one T. I am going to ask you if this is the bleakest situation since the mid-2010s Brooklyn Nets after Prokera, I was like, let's do a 180. I know we don't have any picks, but I don't want to spend money anymore. Is this the worst situation since then?

1:00:59I don't think it's that bad. Is it? You still have Booker on his prime?

1:01:06Bill Simmons:All of their picks are gone or swapped until 2031. And that pick's gone too. I think. That goes to Utah. They have Booker locked down. They're going to buy Beal out, apparently, in the next 24 hours for some crazy price. Jalen Green, three for 105. I don't think either of us would want to pay that. Brooks for two years. Grayson Allen and Rose O 'Neal, double figures for the next couple of years. They have the two Charlotte centers. and they're going to be paying booker like 75 million dollars a year on a new extension right and then probably what nine months from now he's gonna be like hey guys i can you send me to a winning team now i don't know he seems to be he seems to be like to totally into the phoenix thing so i i don't know i i can't predict how he's going to feel other than he's felt like a really good partner as the face of the franchise as opposed to some other guys.

1:02:05Bill Simmons:They're going to be a lottery team without a pick. And I don't see any path forward. I don't... I mean, Maliach would have to be like a revelation for me to feel better about this situation. Like a revelation where we're like, holy shit, this is like watching Ewing and Georgetown. Cue up the 85 Ewing highlights. He's back.

1:02:33yeah that would be a little surprising although you know i did i did like him i liked him too yeah this is just one of those it's back to the no outs things like booker's still better booker's better than anyone on utah booker's better than anybody on portland booker's better than anybody on new orleans um san antonio you know that's probably not a conversation just because of what we think of Wemby. But the only argument you have here is Booker's talent level then surrounded by no options, and it's expensive.

1:03:11Bill Simmons:Who do you have number two? Sacramento. I had them as well. I don't know that you realize how bad it is until you go through the exercise. I was stunned. yeah so it's levine and sabonis are a cool 90 million um and then 94 in a year from now yeah like miami fans should be going well at least we're not doing that with bam hero right so you've got sabonis levine de rosen who you know look de rosen at 25 and 28 million is it's fine like a guy just seems to age really well monks at like 40 million the next two years but But it's$133.5 million for those four guys. This year, it's$142.5 million next year for those four guys.

1:04:00Bill Simmons:Then here's Dennis Schroeder for three for 44. Let's throw him in there. Yeah. At the time, though, I would have rather done that deal than the Levert deal because I just think Schroeder can find ways to help in multiple ways. But it's just not a very exciting team. You have, I think, the least winning top paid player on a team, A guy that, I mean, none of this is, again, new on my Levine stuff, but that's a team that is fucked. Well, and Keegan Murray, who they're going to have to make a decision on an extension at some point. And I just, it feels like he's gotten worse the last two years where they felt like there was something there.

1:04:40Bill Simmons:I'm not seeing it. They have their own first. They have a mini 2031 and they have a top eight San Antonio first. So they have stuff to trade. I there was Zach floated this out a couple times that this seemed like a possible Jalen Brown overpay team I still feel like if you're gonna make the free and do an overpay who's most likely to just do a complete crazy overpay trade fantasy draft I think I would have them first because they're they're like Chicago and no man's land but they don't want to be a no man's land and they're ready to do stuff I just don't think the opportunity has presented itself but it's a weird one.

1:05:20Bill Simmons:I just don't like their roster. I don't like the guys together and they don't really have a lot of outs with it. The DeRozan contract last year made sense when they did it, but now if you called Atlanta and said, hey, you want to take DeRozan in your trade exception? I just don't think Atlanta would do it. So, yeah. I had them second as well. I'm sure they can move DeRozan if they want to because I still think DeRozan, like I cannot believe how productive he still is. little but it's would you do it for norm powell um you know i think norm i'd probably i'd probably rather pay norm because he's younger and i would give cheaper i would say his injury stuff last year is what derailed what was like an insane start for him so uh and norm's a better shooter from three yeah i'd rather have norm too who'd you have for your 13 this i thought number three was tough.

1:06:14Bill Simmons:It was pretty clear that Phoenix was one and Sacramento was two. And then third, I thought, uh, I thought it was a hard one. See the way you're going with this, I feel like you're going to say Pelicans now. Wow. You know me, you know me so well. That's who I had. All right. So give me the Pelicans argument. It's a team of assets that I like that make no sense together. I don't think they're going to be good next year and they don't have their pick. And I think my favorite asset of everybody they have is Troy Murphy. At four for 112. Herb Jones, two for 29.

1:07:02Bill Simmons:I said Troy Murphy. Trey Murphy. Sorry, Trey. Trey Murphy. Remember Trey Murphy? My dad always liked him. His cap hold is still on. My dad always enjoyed Trey Murphy. Trey Murphy, four for 112. Jones, two for 29. They have Queen and Fears and Hawkins and Missy. You know, some good young talent. Murray coming back up in Achilles. They have Jordan Poole for two years for reasons that remain unclear. And then this weird Zion situation. And it's like they're zigging and zagging at the same time. By trading your pick, you're telling us you think you can compete for a top six playoff spot. and yet looking at the West, I don't see any chance that happens.

1:07:45I like a bunch of the guys. So if you're saying this is third worst.

1:07:51Bill Simmons:It's more a reflection of the West than them because I don't think they would be top five worst in the East. Right, but let's just play it out. Why is this worse than Utah?

1:08:06Bill Simmons:because all those picks Utah has combined with they have two firsts out of their own Minnesota and Cleveland in 27-29 they've got a Lakers top four protected 27 they've got the unprotected Phoenix 31 they've got a swap with Minnesota or Cleveland in 28 another swap excuse me in 26 and then another Cleveland Sop in 28. It's weird. I guess I'm factoring in Utah knows what they're doing more. Maybe that shouldn't factor into this. Okay, but if we're going through the Utah players. So you'd rather have the New Orleans players and the Utah picks. Yeah.

1:08:52Bill Simmons:Who's the best asset? Give me the three best assets on Utah. Markkanen. Okay. probably ace Bailey just because of where they picked them. Right. Go back to the Washington thing. Kessler. Yeah. It gets bleak fast. Hendricks, Clayton jr. Well, new Orleans has two cap killer assets and in Murray coming off of his injury. And then Jordan pull who they willingly traded for, for 66 million for two years. They were like, sure. Um, Um, I, uh, and they have a bunch of young players. I actually think the way they built their roster is going to be counterproductive because it's too many guys and none of them have really proven anything.

1:09:41Bill Simmons:So you have all these different assets. Like Trey Murphy is going to be like, I'm ready to have an awesome year and be discussed in a real way. Herb Jones is like, I'm ready to do all Herb Jones things on a, on a good team. Zion has been in the league now six years. what's when is the Zion hey guys I'm laying the smackdown I don't know what to make of this team um Zion is in this in his career it's just always worth reminding everybody this 24 games 61 games zero games 29 games 70 games where he got hurt in the plan against the Lakers when he had 40 yeah and then 30 games last year so it's it's a lot like the LaMelo thing where you have this thing and you're like, okay, but you're just waiting around for him.

1:10:28I mean, if he's healthy somewhere, honestly, if he's healthy somewhere else and puts up some big numbers, then so be it. There is a New Orleans stink that is,

1:10:37Bill Simmons:it's hard to separate it from the situation because being in New Orleans with how dysfunctional that organization and city and ownership has been year after year after year, if you just basically took all this stuff and put it with a better infrastructure and everything around it, you might be in better shape, but you know, it's just year after year in that city with the, with the, you know, I don't know. I mean, you read that piece this week about he called Atlanta kept asking them over and over again. So it's an unprotected pick. Right. And they're like, yeah, yeah. It's unprotected. It's like just one more time.

1:11:19Bill Simmons:It's unprotected. Right. You hear stuff like that. You're like, holy shit. How does this team even suit up 82 times? How do they even coordinate the travel correctly? And these are the new guys. These are the new guys. But it's basically Weaver's running the team for Dumars. And Weaver, I don't think, could have done a worse job for the Pistons. Could have done a worse job? That was one of those, I'm not positive that guy was going to get another job. All right. so who'd you have third if it was new orleans you had utah yeah because i like trey herb and the potential of zion yeah it's a three three there's that would be an interesting one i think utah would probably say we're fine we have all of these picks we you know if taylor Hendricks turns out to be something.

1:12:15Yeah. Clayton or Keontae turn into something. Maybe. I mean, you know.

1:12:20Bill Simmons:It's a good argument. I think those are the three and four in some order. And then I couldn't believe I had this team in the top five, but I kind of ran out of teams because the West is. But I think it's the Clippers. I think they have to be fifth. even though I think that's a I think they're a potential round three playoff team this year. But I just like big picture Kawhi for two more years, 50 and 50. They're paying Kawhi and Harden 90 and 92. They pound Bogdanovich on expirings. That's about it. Not a lot of leverage with the roster. They have some couple positive pick stuff and a couple lousy pick stuff including a Philly swap, their 28 goes to Philly, stuff like that.

1:13:12Bill Simmons:They do have$26 million on the cap in 27-28. Listen, in the East, they wouldn't even sniff the top five. But I was just trying to think of what situation could potentially just go badly. And you have to go with them or Golden State. Because Golden State is basically this two-year runway now. They're on the cap in the summer of 27. They'll have$23 million in players in the cap. so they're open for business in all these ways but that could also go horribly you know and maybe short term it might even get so it's one of those two i think in that spot because i can't put portland i like the portland five-year situation over both of those teams yeah i went through and did portland stuff um you know grant's still in the books for 32 34 million next two years and you forget he's on the team but i think between like if you look You didn't like the Drew contract either.

1:14:06Bill Simmons:Drew, three for 100, basically, and then the grand. Yeah, honestly, I was shocked that they did that. You might be right. It's starting to look worse now that we've seen some of the free agent money that Drew's going to make that with some of the other prices that Guy's got. Maybe I might have been wrong on that one. Yeah, but you kind of were right because they got an asset out of it where I thought that's clearly a pick in a dump. I would have thought they were going to have to attach a pick to it. And then the Celtics are just super confident. Like they did a really good job canvassing the market.

1:14:40You heard they've got a landing spot for this guy, but if they don't need to do it that way, they could do this thing first. And then, you know, they got out of a ton of money and saved themselves a ton of money and they still have a flexibility back. Like I think Niang's a rotation guy and a good team. I think Simons allows you to get creative or you could just say, why don't you score some play? I don't know what they're going to do with him, but you could see them having like an okay season where he's scoring a ton off the bench and they're just like, look, you're a scorer and you can find a bunch of shots.

1:15:10So look, I think if you go through Portland stuff, you go, okay. The picks are where it gets really good. Sharp feels like a nice, like maybe Denny's looked like he's going to be good. I think Scoot took a step in the right direction, still needs to be better for him to match kind of our excitement. And Kamara, I love. Klingen, you know, I don't know if Chris Murray's getting the world excited about it. But there's at least, like, among the five new guys that are in there, there's kind of some hope where even with some of these other teams that are bad, you can't – you've probably given up on three of the six or seven young guys already.

1:15:48Yeah. If that makes any sense.

1:15:51Bill Simmons:They have Milwaukee swaps in 28 and 30. they can keep the best version of Boston or Milwaukee in 29. They have all their own picks. It's pretty good. And I think they're going to be a really interesting, wouldn't be shocked if they went like 47 and 35 type of team this year, just because I think their defense is going to be really good. And it's going to hinge on our guy with a ton of scoot stock. It's going to hinge on how good offensively he can be for them. but I kind of like the team. I think they have an identity. I think that's a really hard thing to do when you're a lottery team, to build a type of group of players that seem like they actually fit together, which I don't think New Orleans has.

1:16:39It'll be interesting, though, because there was one number that showed kind of an outlier opposing three-point percentage in the second half, and that may, every now and then, and you'll see some weird outlier or opposing three-point percentage where you go, oh, that's what happened. Like, were they really good defensively or did they just get really lucky in opponents' makes? So that'd be something that I'm looking for the first few months of next season.

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1:18:45Bill Simmons:Golden State. because you get short-term curry long-term cap space curry's the best partner in his era in basketball yeah and i don't have to worry about the bullshit that you have to worry about with everybody else you know i agree the only other team i looked at was memphis just because of uh they gave jaron that extension he immediately got hurt um john moran just shows how much he's built different though he's just out grinding yeah non-sanctioned hoops john moran no idea what to expect with him contracts are fine i like some of their young guys they have all their first plus the rlando first so they didn't didn't make it and then i did look at the lakers situation for a second just because not when you have one of the three best it's kind of the honest thing in milwaukee like it can be a mess and granted the lakers future met but there there has to be some point of these conversations where we look at each other and go, oh, you have one of the three best players in the world.

1:19:43Bill Simmons:But here's why I paused. He is, he is, does not have an extension yet. It's the only thing that made me pause. How happy are you going to be if he decides to sign somewhere else? I don't see any scenario where that happens, but I also, if I was a Laker fan, I would be sleeping with one eye open until it happens. Who knows? there's going to be a lot of teams with cap space. Because now that everyone's figured out the system, I mean, one of the things, I just think the way they, and we've been talking about it for two years, but they change these CBAs and they immediately put in the new rules and these teams who have been doing whatever they've been doing.

1:20:28Bill Simmons:And then all of a sudden it's like, hey, the rules have changed. It's like, okay, cool. Well, we didn't know that when we made all the decisions we've made the last two years, like the Celtics and other teams. but I think by the time we get to 26, 27, everyone's going to have a feel for, all right, if I create cap space and I do this and I can make, so that could be a really good for agent sweepstakes. My assumption is he'll sign an extension in August. I'd be shocked if he didn't, but who knows? Would it be like a wild card round for the Pats or Red Sox if Luka didn't sign? That's not on the level of a banner, right?

1:21:08Bill Simmons:So would I trade the Pats? Could it make the playoffs for five years if but Luca leaves the Lakers? Would I take that? Yeah, yeah. I think I'd go three years. Five's a lot. Five's like a half decade. I'm old. Because you're still so mad that they got him, which is totally understandable. There's been some benefits, though. it definitely created one of the most bizarre LeBron situations. I think that's been pretty fun. I still don't really get the LeBron thing, you know, because I think it's actually as simple as it needs to be on its surface. It's like, so you were mad you didn't get the extension, so you opted in.

1:21:51So there was nothing else for you to do. There's nowhere for you to make that money. And now what? Like somebody's going to hear from you about it. I don't know, man. That That one's still a weird deal a week later. I think it's as simple as this.

1:22:06Bill Simmons:He is the best NBA player ever to be in a situation like this where he's on somebody else's team. I think it's really that simple. If I go through the best guys of all time that I have going down from... Jordan was never in this situation. Bill Russell, never. Kareem, never. Magic, never. Bird, never. Duncan, never. Will Chamberlain. Got traded twice, but even near the end, they won the title in 72. He was on the Lakers. He went to the ABA. He was always controlling his own destiny. Curry, Kobe, Jerry West. You finally get to Hakeem. It's like the first great guy who was like, oh shit, my team doesn't really seem like they want to build around me and have it be my team anymore.

1:23:04Bill Simmons:So I think that's a really hard thing to deal with. It's been in the league 23 years from the moment Luka showed up. And then it was like, Luka, Luka, Luka. And there's jerseys in the thing. And they're changing their style on the fly to kind of fit what Luka does. I don't know if he's a huge fan. You can kind of see it. You went to a bunch of Laker games. There were moments where he was like, all right, I guess I'll stand over here and Luca's going to do the dribble the ball a lot and then shoot thing. So I think it's a hard thing to get used to because it's like the Doug Collins quote where Doug Collins is like, the hardest thing to coach is a generational superstar.

1:23:44Bill Simmons:When they're getting old, it's the hardest thing to coach. So, you know, I don't know. I don't know what the right situation is for him. That's the weird thing. like he was playing basketball in the Cleveland gym. I know the other day. And yeah, I guess he does that every year. It was a non story, but it was also like the timing of it was suspicious because he takes this Instagram. So I don't know. I don't know how it plays out. He's not getting bought out. I'll tell you that much. But I think the part that it's like, can you not understand why somebody wouldn't want to do like another$54 million option that you control for next year?

1:24:23at 42 years old, like, you know, hey, we can't keep maxing you off of that number and then have you be in control of it. So, you know, could you understand that at all? And I don't, I don't think guys that are this special at stuff, they don't, they wouldn't, they wouldn't agree with you. Well,

1:24:42Bill Simmons:you made the key point with Bobby when you were saying this is just something LeBron chose to do it this way as a, as an employee of a team. to keep people in constant suspense, whether he was going to stay or go, because he felt like by never really fully committing long-term, it constantly put pressure on the front office to, we got to do this or he might leave. This goes all the way back to the first Cleveland run, when you first started. Oh, six. Right, like really paying attention, and it felt like he and Rich Paul enjoyed ownership and management. Well, it wasn't Rich Paul initially. It was, I mean, you're going, this is like, yeah, good one.

1:25:25But it, it played out after that, uh, even with Miami, but it was, it was like, they wanted you as ownership in the front office to always feel anxiety. And I would argue that I think at some point that gets in the way of the partnership. Yeah. Cause it would just lead to some resentment or maybe it didn't, you know, I mean, you the guy made a million NBA finals. So maybe the art, but I just, I was a little surprised that it was like 25, 26. It was like, we're going to do this one more time.

1:26:00Bill Simmons:Well, it was weird on the Lakers because they basically did everything he wanted for years, right? They did the Davis trade. They got rid of every young guy they had. They mortgaged all these picks and then year after year. They tried to pretend the Westbrook deal wasn't what they wanted. You know, they drafted his son. they brought in reddick you know there's there's maybe a move here or there that they didn't do but for the most part the coaches have changed a lot yeah it's not like they've been fighting him in every turn like those guys wanted vogel out of there and they go you know but the reason the vogel thing didn't work is because he was trying to figure out to make the westbrook thing work and the westbrook thing wasn't going to work a million different ways and then lebron and that camp tried to distance themselves from westbrook thing being like yeah we didn't want him either and you're like that's not true um and then you know darvin ham comes in and they can't get rid of him quick enough so i i i don't know i just i wonder if you could ever have like an honest moment with him be like you know like people have kind of done what you've wanted to all the time do you find things that you think they're doing wrong i can remember is the summer 2017 when he wanted the calves to trade everything even though everybody knew he was going to go to la in a year and the Cavs are the one team they're like, fuck this.

1:27:18Bill Simmons:We're not going to do that. Commit to an extension and we'll go for this. We'll go for Paul George. It was like a lottery pick for like DeAndre Jordan who was shot at that point. And you were going like, what? And then, I mean, even the Shabazz Napier thing. Miami ends up taking him. I was thinking about the alternate universe. So let's say he opts out. I can't believe we're talking about LeBron. The ESPN producers are making us do this. He opts out. We can't make fun of them next time. We can't. Well, at least we're doing it at the end of the podcast. He opts out, right? June 30th. He's like, I'm out.

1:27:57Bill Simmons:I'm done with the Los Angeles Lakers. So it's 53 million. But you think like California taxes, agent fee. So maybe he's pocketing 24 million, right? So let's say he goes to Dallas. what would Dallas be able to pay him? Like 8.8 for one year? Yeah, was it the D 'Angelo Russell deal? So something like that. Yeah, so he gets 8.8, no state taxes in Dallas. Maybe he pockets five. So he's cost himself 20 million. But now he's on Dallas on this awesome team, potentially, going for the fifth ring. Could he have made the money back? Would that have been worth it? Like he's supposedly a billionaire. Like, I don't know.

1:28:46Bill Simmons:Would that have been, I wonder if he regrets like the way this played out going, oh man, I actually should have opted out. That would have been the baller move to be like, fuck it. I'm going to bet on myself. I'm going to go in. I'm going to, I'm going to pick my team. I'm going to make this a, or he goes to Golden State, right? Golden State has some cap space to send some free agents or there's some sign and trade, whatever it is. I wonder if he regrets not opting out. Because I think that would have been a smarter move. even though it was, you know, you can't tell somebody, well, passing up X amount of money, but I wonder if he would have been able to make it back.

1:29:20But what's making it back for him? You know, this is one of those things where the mistake is like, why wouldn't you just opt out of it? I mean, after this past year and then the next year, 52 million, like I'm just looking at it real quick here again, that's going to put him at 580 million in career earnings.

1:29:35Bill Simmons:So just for NBA, not just about all the off the court stuff. right so if you were pissed enough about what just went down because it was sort of a weird press release yeah yeah this is what we're doing it wasn't sort of a weird press release it was weird it was weird it was weird yeah we didn't even really know how to talk about it a week ago because i was like we got to do something about this and we were kind of like we didn't really know what it was but we knew it was something yeah so if you know that's the part where you're just not going to have any sympathy for him because I'm not, I wouldn't tell anybody, but like, yeah, you should have cost yourself 40 million.

1:30:14And then you factor in the taxes. Maybe it's 35 million, whatever. You should have done that if that was your main priority. But now it's like, okay, well, you can't say anything. Like you can't be upset about anything because you could have had all the freedom you wanted. You couldn't, you could have gone anywhere you wanted and you weren't going to do that because you didn't want to sacrifice the massive contract number. And so, you know, there you go. Like, it wasn't like they had the team option and they picked it up. you decided to do this. Tom Brady went to Tampa

1:30:43Bill Simmons:and I don't, he wasn't full price, but it wasn't like what the situation LeBron would have been in. Where LeBron would have taken a major discount to go to a contender. But you could argue, if you get that fifth ring and you were a big part of a team, or if you went to Cleveland or wherever, maybe that would have been worth it. I don't know. At some point, he's made so much money. What is the difference between... I have$1.7 billion versus$1.6 ,780 ,000. Like, I don't know. Because whatever the situation is now, like, let's play it out. There's going to be... The Lakers haven't said anything for a week.

1:31:29Bill Simmons:We haven't heard anything from anybody. We haven't heard the new owner, the old owner. We haven't heard anything from JJ. Palenka said nothing nobody's even done like a passive aggressive fight back of like dude he opted in we expected him to be here in training camp he says he wants to be on the Lakers well he's on the Lakers and he's the one who asked for the no trade clause we expect to see him on October 1st I don't know what the problem is he's Luka Doncic on his team we got DeAndre Aiden like we were the 3 seed in the west last year what's the problem but nobody said that.

1:32:12I just hope he understands he can't send the eyes looking at something emoji before the trade deadline.

1:32:25And my guess is that he's probably still going to do something cryptic later on. And you're just like, Hey man, the rules are different now. Like it's, you're, if you want a multi-year deal, I'm sure plenty of teams to do it, but it's not going to be at 50 million.

1:32:42Bill Simmons:What would be the most amazing, I, I'm trying to think how this would be more fun from a content standpoint. And wouldn't it be Luca being like, it's my team now. He's got to learn how to fit in or like, you know, he's 17 years older than I am. At some point, you've got to recognize that it's a different generation of players moving in or just some sort of thing that would be like, oh! Selfishly, maybe LeBron for Jalen Brown. Oh, my God. I would ask to come on twice that week with you. You would just say, can we do a 24-hour pod? Well, that's the other thing. Bobby made the point on your pod that I don't even know what is legal with a trade anymore.

1:33:29Bill Simmons:These rules are so confusing. You know, I was wondering, like, could you just trade Jimmy Butler for LeBron? Their salaries are almost exactly the same. Apparently, you can't. No, Jimmy. You just can't. Well, Bobby was just so good this week, man. So I really appreciate you liking that pod because we got done and I went, God, he fucking killed it today. And Bobby was joking that he wanted to have, like, pre-recorded sounders for us. Right, that we just press a button. You and Zach. Ah, that triggers the second apron. Zach might not need it. Is there an AI bobbing? Could we do AI? That should be an app that he invents.

1:34:08And you can just download all the soundbites where he's just like, that would put you in the first apron. But since it's aggregated, you know, he just. But then again, we'd have to know that that was happening live as you were bullshitting about all these different things. But the best point, the one that you were going to make there, is that poor Bobby gets aggregated by ESPN by saying there's no market for LeBron. Then it goes on to explain why there's no market for LeBron. because nobody can trade for him yeah it looks really bad when you've got one of your most plugged in guys saying but it's kind of back to the cleveland thing that we were talking about last week and we should probably finish this topic at this point because i don't know how much more i have left on it is that as great as he continues to be this late in his career i can't give up multi-year assets for a guy that like i get i get when you're in your prime and you're not an awesome partner for a team but i can't have you north of 40 fucking with me like you're 28 right hey what do you want to do next year what would you like to do do you want okay all right you want to keep you want to keep everything all right so that means if we're paying you this we're paying luca this and we're going to worry about the extension of luca and then austin the whole thing chances are we're not like they were lucky to be able to even get eight okay like i I don't even think that's necessarily like a bad team next year.

1:35:24Bill Simmons:Well, you know what it is? It's a Bill Duffy team. Solo agent changing the guard too. The Duffy guys are coming in to the Lakers. Clutch had their seven-year run. Now it's Bill Duffy's time. KCP in a one-year 20-something. The eighth thing happened after I did my pod on Wednesday. You got to talk about it on Thursday. I just like, there's no more fascinating center you could throw on the Lakers with LeBron and with Luka that where there's more scenarios at play. I just, I thought he was really tough to take in Portland and the Phoenix people clearly had enough of them. And we've, I've followed the NBA enough with my life that usually guys who show a certain set of behavior for season after season, it doesn't just miraculously change when they're 27.

1:36:17Bill Simmons:With all that said, the guy puts up points and rebounds, and they needed somebody who can just go 15 and 10 every game. You know? Even having him not giving a shit in the Minnesota series last year still would have been better than what they had. Absolutely. That's it. If he can actually give a shit for three of the seven games of a series, it's still three more than whatever they had before. So I didn't mind it. We'll see if LeBron can resurrect him. He was able to resurrect J.R. Smith. There were some distressed assets that he was able to pull stuff out of. I don't know if it'll happen with Aiton, but it was certainly a better outcome than I think what we're looking at when you're looking at the free agent centers.

1:37:05Bill Simmons:You're like, ugh. It's a total win, and I'm going to give Lakers media. I went looking for the pieces. I went looking for the Pro 8 and new stop there. He's going to feed off a Luka. He's going to feed off LeBron. JJ's always loved his skill set, the foundation of his skills. Yeah. There's still a chance that it happens, but I went looking for it this week to hate read it. And I was going to be so entertained by being like, you're just talking to yourself. And it's credit to all the... I went through a lot of Lakers stuff, locally sourced blogs. Good media. good media group really great work out of you guys strain everybody congrats nobody doing one thing i didn't read one delusional ayton thing which i was disappointed by i was hoping to be entertained and it wasn't even out there so good job nobody right now once upon a time a guy named robert parish was traded to the boston celtics much maligned for his work ethic a lot like DeAndre Ayton.

1:38:09Bill Simmons:And he became a Hall of Famer. I like there was some stuff floating around about how DeAndre and Luka, because they were in the same draft, and DeAndre had some positive Luka comments. I actually think it's not an awesome offensive basketball fit for how he plays with, I think, just hypothetically, whatever he used, LeBron, Luka. No, he's less of a lob guy, and he's more of a spot-up guy. Yes. Now, can you just say, hey, dude, have you looked in the mirror recently? Just can you go catch some of these lobs from Luca? Can we show you a tape of 100 lobs that you dunked over the course of your career?

1:38:48Bill Simmons:You and I were on, I think, we had probably more patience for him than most because we really respected that finals run that he had and some of the stuff he did defensively. It's in there, but those are the kind of guys that break your hearts because you know it's in there. because every time I read and look, the signings now are reading like press releases from the agencies. And this has been going on for a long time. And I understand why we do it or why we have it because the agent wants to get his name in there on the transaction. And then when the agent is the one doing the favor to the insider.

1:39:22So I can't even really get mad at the insiders, but like, you'll go through and just want to read a story about a guy signing somewhere. Like, Hey, what could I not be thinking of something that I missed? You know, like I haven't, I've been watching every single eight in game his entire career. And then you run through the ones that come out and they're all, you can tell they're like written by the agency.

1:39:40Bill Simmons:Yeah. And by the time you're done with the eight one, you're like, holy shit, this guy's amazing. And then how many, 19 guys ever averaged 15 and 10 their first six seasons. Whoa. Yeah. There's, there's some number that's like, he's the first guy or he's one of only like seven guys to start their career or 10 and 10, which, you know, is still a pretty impressive rebounding number. It's not an impressive scoring number. But there was about three or four lines in one of the stories that I read about him. And you get done with, like, the last portion of it. And you're thinking, I can't believe this guy was available.

1:40:14He's 26. And you're like, what? Like, think about everything that you just read. What a steal. And that Portland was still like, we're good.

1:40:22Bill Simmons:Yeah, paragraph 12 is Portland paid him$25 million to go away. At 26 years old. when they have a defensive identity. But even Chauncey was like, please. So yeah, they got him. I really like the Loravia. As you know, like Loravia. I don't know if he would have been my number one target in free agency, but I do like him. I think he's going to play for them. And all the Laker fans who were telling us all summer they were going to trade Reeves for a center, as always, like, okay, here's a list of the centers. Who are you getting? unless you're going to try to trade him for Nick Claxton, which I wouldn't recommend.

1:41:06Bill Simmons:The centers don't really exist. Anyway, all right, that's it for us. So both of us are kind of cutting back this summer, but you will be on the Braveheart rewatchables at some point this summer. You promised. Yeah, I promised. I just don't know if that's an on-location one where I'll be. We're already off to a rough start. unfortunately on some of the planning but that's okay all all good things nothing complain about um all right yeah braveheart i'll i'd be thrilled to do that because i just had those three scots on that are rowing from peru to sydney and one of the questions that i had prepped up was do you guys watch braveheart regularly during the tough days because they're on like day 90 now jesus Well, maybe we do a Twitter poll.

1:41:55Bill Simmons:Would you rather hear Russillo on a Braveheart rewatchables or Casablanca? Because Fantasy said he would waive his$53 million player option and sign for the vet minimum if we did Casablanca. I'm not doing this as fake humble. I want you three to do Casablanca, and I don't want to be on it. I think you guys are so fucking good that I just don't think it makes sense for me to come on and make my jokes and be a dick about some things. I don't want to get in the way. Maybe African Queen you come on? Yeah, I could do African Queen. I loved that movie when I was a kid. I was like, this Bogart guy's got something.

1:42:41Bogart and Hepburn. What a combo. Yeah. Just that boat had its challenges. I mean, I didn't even realize how passionate I would be about nautical stuff. How's it spoken to make it?

1:42:55Bill Simmons:Rousseau, good to see you. Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. New Rewatchables coming. Tomorrow we did Jaws 2, so stay tuned for that. And you're not going to see me on this podcast until next Sunday. So enjoy the rest of the week.

1:43:18You live with them.

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